TWO minute k-pop songs: the price of rewarding mediocrity
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- Опубликовано: 2 июл 2024
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timestamps
0:00 g-idle's inspiration in making this video
1:28 the "tiktok" generation
3:51 length vs structural issues
5:56 the illusion of short song success
7:22 awarding mediocrity
9:14 conclusion
10:11 outro 
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NMIIIIIX, change up!
Random but Real!
LESS GO!!
Boom is SOTY material
Literally NMIXX called a 7 Track Mini Album an EP? Omg i wished groups were this generous and not like BP with an 8 Track "Full Album"
run for roses soty 2024 fr
Awarding mediocrity might just be one of the few fundamental problems with kpop lately. In more ways than one.
Psycho not winning soty always kills me😭
So true. This explains why people like wife by g idle.
Now this I’m directly blaming blackpink and yg for this
@@Divetiny fr like the song is so mid I just don't understand the hype in this
@@AUGHHHHHBBG Preach!
if 4minute was still active today they'd be called 2minute at this point
The problem with getting shorter songs isn't actually just in K-Pop. I've recently watched a video on Spotify and how monetization there works. It basically explained how songs have to be able to captivate a person in the first 30 seconds for them to stay and for the listens to be counted since they have to listen for a certain time for it to be counted. It also showed a statistic how the length of songs changed over time. Songs used to be actually shorter since back then, there was limited space to record songs and as the technology developed, songs got progressively longer. But at a certain point, they started to become shorter again. Of course, tik tok definitely contributed to that, but it certainly isn't the only thing that is the cause for this. So I wouldn't exactly limit it just to kpop songs, but that's just my two cents.
It definitely isn't just kpop. You explained the technical limitations that used to impact track length in the past very well. I just don't see what would have to happen for tracks to get longer again.
Like even western artists like Ice Spice have very short songs.
The issue is bad songwriting, not length. Look at The Beatles and their compilation album, "1962-1966", disc 1. A classic with songs that sold millions and set the tone for an era. Most of the songs are shorter than 2:30! The shortest song is 1:59 and the longest is 3:07 (Ticket To Ride, when the group was becoming more experimental with their sound). A classic like Love Me Do is only 2:20 in length.
Short songs were popular back in the day and no one complained because they were good. The real thing people hate is the structural problems when songwriters try to make a song as viral as possible. The goal is streams, streams, streams because that's what makes money. Shorter length is a financial imperative. If a song is 2 minutes long instead of 3 minutes, that's 50% more streams an hour and 50% more revenue. Longer songs are not coming back unless reimbursement contracts are ripped up and rewritten. Length isn't a requirement for quality. What k-pop fans should look at is listenability and structure
yeah, i see this trend everywhere... for better or worse i think its indicative of a society with a shorter and shorter attention span and businesses and industries everywhere are trying to accommodate for that
Song lengths definitely change over time, they’re short now but they’ll get longer again in some time. Idk why everyone thinks it’s such a big deal when a ton of pop songs have been around 2:30 or were made Into 2:30 minutes for a radio edit
"Bite Me" by Enhypen was good, but disappointing at only 2:38. It also lacks a bridge and starts with part of its chorus.
Exactly! I don't mind starting with part of the chorus although I'm not crazy about it, but I really feel the lack of bridges in most of modern music. They really add more essence and depth to songs, while nowadays with a lot of music it seems like the only purpose is to repeat a 20 second snippet as many times as possible to make it go viral and all the other stuff doesn't really matter. It makes me sad, because there are pieces of songs that I really enjoy, but the songs feel one-dimensional if taken in their entirety.
Bite Me would have been way better if they added a bridge and then they could have ended the way it did.
FR!!! I love this song but I just feel INCOMPLETE listening
THIS but with sweet venom. the bridge is literally 1 line long. I love the song but I WANT MORE of that bridge😭😭😭
dont get me started on sweet venom, everything about that song was so repetitive including the music video, as a big fan of them i am really disappointed on this title track run of them where they feel like really short songs specially with sweet venom
although sm is a shitty company, one thing I will appreciate is how they structure their groups songs because they actually include 3 choruses where the last chorus has adlibs and an amazing, well thought-out bridge like snsd and red velvet etc.
The way sm is such a shitty company but get so many talented artist is infuriating. Like I don't stand for what they do but dam do they know how to make comeback
i blame this on the streaming culture, instead of enjoying comebacks fans set goals and fight over whos more successful... they will stream songs even if they don't like them. i think that they even gaslight themselves into liking the songs😭
i hate hate hate this trend, but like you said "nothing lasts forever"
I'm at a point in my life where Cheryl's video excites me more than comebacks I'm not lying. We need your fed up video essays in this fandom girlie!!
aww thanks 💙
omg agreed 🎉😊
Get it by pristin v can be an arguably long song but I don’t even feel it because it has everything perfectly. Intro, verse, pre chorus, chorus, bridge and one of the best outros I’ve ever heard in my life. If it’s high quality, it won’t feel long indeed!
Yeah, that's a great example! I still listen to a good amount of 4-6 minute songs, but I won't notice it's short if it's done right. Some songs though.. they just feel unfinished and I end up unsatisfied by the end.
Get it is still one of the best songs in kpop history that bridge is heavenly
get it is actually so good even if it's less than 3:30 there's still all the components to make a beautiful song with an excellent structure
Get It has always been one of the best kpop songs i've heard. The arrangement just *chef's kiss* 😘
the quality of that song is amazing and I never get bored of it
raye's escapism is a great example of a 4+ minute song that went viral and when you listen to the whole thing it actually surprises you in a good way because it takes you on such an incredible journey with very distinct parts and an addicting chorus
raye, 90s rnb isn't a minute under 4 minutes, frank ocean, the weeknd, etc there are soo many artists that know how to pull of 4+ minute songs Incredibly. I kid you not, I listen to the weeknd's mixtapes that have an average song length of 7 minutes per song and I listen to a full mixtape from top to bottom and find it very enjoyable. but kpop isn't about artistry and more of a money hungry Industry trying to get their hits on tiktok
Kpop is definitely becoming more of a commercial game rather than a musical and artistic products
I think to an extent it has always been a “commercial game” but back then, majority of the music was good so it was overlooked. Now, it’s way more evident as every group jumps on a trend at the same time and they all try their hardest to gain more popularity (example being how that one vid of the girl dancing to Russian roulette and it blew up on tik tok, and ever since then idols have progressively been trying to get their songs to blow up on tik tok in the same way.)
It has always been...sure some care about the art but it was always meant as a highly polished product to sell as much as possible.
Acting like K-pop is THE most commercial genre on the planet from the get go is crazy. It’s just degrading in quality because it does have to be good to succeed, not because the desire for success is stronger
@@G3NTOK1you verbalised it perfectly!
I would said more a main stream problem. Before, till third gen they have to offer quality in order to compete in international markets, after we know whom, they started to offer personas and ilusions of larger than life groups, quality in music become like a third or forth requirement if we go by some encores of "top" groups.
Once it stop to be main stream they will have to return to offer quality or they will loose money.
My biggest gripe is the lack of bridge. Maybe because I'm a fan of a lot of SM groups, so the best part of the song is often the bridge. So when songs don't have it, I get irritated. And when I mean bridge, I mean lyrics, not a dance break.
the cheryl nation has been fed well recently
Fr
aespa here releasing songs over 3mins or long, and mind u they even had a song Girls whom the song is 4mins in total and yet ppl hate them for that, they said aespa is too much with their songs😅. So I guess ppl now have lowered their standard and prefer songs over 2mins or less. I wish aespa wont follow this trend and continue on what theyre doing.
SM in general tbh
don't forget savage that is *almost* 4 minutes too, I myself basically count that as a 4 minute song because it's just a few seconds short of one lol
3:57 Exactly! I always said that the important thing is not the length of a song, but what the song does with that time
Get Up by New Jeans was basically not enough, it's barely even a minute song lmao.
It’s an interlude
@@sama4248an interlude on a 12 minute, 6 song EP is crazy tho.
@@nearamait maybe crazy but it’s still an interlude
Get up is an interlude, but NewJeans songs are crazy short anyway
@@nearama6 songs is pretty normal for an EP, It's not supposed to be a full length album. Or even a regular album.
We live in a microwave era of entertainment tbh. Churn things out quickly (often underdeveloped) in hopes of making a big splash (which is temporary) but no real impact. This is across all media not just music (I've seen it with TV shows and film too).This trend has been going on for a while but has only worsened with TikTok. We live in an attention economy, as long as they have it they don't have any incentive to change.
It’s wild to me that shortened J-pop songs are usually 2 mins, while your average kpop song is 2 mins. (Most J-pop is like 4 - 5 minutes btw)
That's what I listen to the most, so I'm more shocked by a 2min song than a 5min 😂
@@SinTeller right? Like seeing the length of Super Shy by New Jeans was lowkey a jump scare bc I’m so used to long songs. One of my fav song by AKB48 is Love Trip that’s almost 6 mins, and the popular version of Plastic Love by Mariya Takeuchi is 8 mins, it’s so crazy to see 2, even 1 minute songs!
I know. I listen to jpop sometimes and the songs are so good and so long like they give me life 😩
In Jpop, 4-5 minutes songs has always been like the standards. My current favorite Jpop song was THE FINEST by Sexy Zone ( jpop boygroup )! 😁
@@absolutelynotellen Omg I fucking love SexyZone 💖💖 Fav bg tho is a 3 way tie between Johnny’s West/West., SMAP, and Arashi, basic but idc lmao
Love how these days whenever there's a new controversy Cheryl just brings out her microphone and starts making a video on it. Love you Cheryl, ur the best❤
This is one of the reasons I love Itzy, in their most recent album BORN TO BE, with 10 songs, in everyone of them there's an intro, verses, pre chorus, chorus, after chorus, bridges and sometimes a breakdance. Most of them are over 3 minutes, they sound full and even too long.
Shorter songs also means less lines for members, imagine you're already singing 15 seconds at average in each song and they cut it down even more...
I think that the TikTok thing got more popular because of NewJeans. Their songs are all shorter than 3 minutes.
HYBE is obsessed with making songs (especially title tracks ) that do well on TikTok because the same thing is happening with most of their groups .
Especially NewJeans and Le sserafim. Their b sides are usually much better .
I think this on blackpink too especially the mediocre part cus a song saying “this that pink venom” becoming a TikTok trend is insane but that how it was with Ddu x4 so not shocked
Yeah, that company loves to make songs that barely 3 minutes. I guess it's just like their company name, HYBE. Because they made it for the sake of the hype/trend rather than actually a decent quality song lmao.
@@absolutelynotellenThat was a good word play .
Newjeans all achievements are based on such songs that can be used by influencers as bgm. Aesthetic music for tik tok is what newjeans is doing I've been saying this from months newjeans is not saving kpop they're rather destroying the essence of kpop
@@user-zj6kp5jh8nSame . But if you say it outright. Their fandom will murder you . They even went as far as to call them 4th gen leaders .
the get up ep being only 12 minutes is my villain origin story. also their debut album with 4 songs is longer than their one with 6 songs.
Honestly after having Get up by newjeans, Wife didn't surprise me. I just didn't expect a 2:17 song from a group that has Soyeon as a producer. Times really has changed.
fr?? Soyeon what are you doing😭
I know it’s shorter than 2:17. That’s just the length of the video because don’t forget about the few second with no music before the song started and when it ended.
At least we got Rapper Miyeon . That was amazing.
But yeah it would have been more fun if the song was longer .
The real song is just 2 min 1 seconds long and that's just criminal okay? I love g(i)-dle so much and am soyeon biased but didn't expect this 😭😭😭😊
@@deepanwitasinharoy4524 Of course it is with that big gap at the beginning and the end of the mv. Thanks for telling me/us tho cuz I didn’t go to check lol. And Finally a neverland that knows this song is bad. A lot of Kpop fans should really learn when to say a song from their faves is bad.
This is honestly what I felt with TXT’s Sugar Rush Ride. Like when the song ended moments before the music video I thought that was just the second chorus, when in reality, it was already the final chorus. I thought they would have a final bridge before the final chorus would play, but then the music video ended too. I remember how appalled I was at its length. That’s probably why I cheered loudly when Back For More was released, because it had a bridge and a final chorus (let’s just ignore for one sec that this only applies to the performance version, at least they released it onto Apple Music), and I was literally this close of crying cuz I missed TXT having bridges in their songs (Temptation had no bridges at all).
Also, to add onto your point of “longer songs can also have viral success”, the first group I thought of was Cigarettes After Sex. So far they don’t have a single song under 3 minutes 30 seconds, and even after TikTok sounds took the world by storm, they didn’t stop releasing long songs; in fact, some of them got even longer (Stop Waiting is six minutes long) and despite that people use them as background music for edits.
I also hope Kpop companies stop producing such short songs. That’s a trend that needs to end.
Cigarettes after sex are literally unable to make a song that isn't a banger
@@olivesareoliver Ikr
I really missed TXT's bridges as well. Sugar Rush Ride was a 10/10 song for me, but I wish it had a bridge. I really look forward to a bridge where Taegyu sings like Dear Sputnik, Blue Hour, Runaway.
Btw, Back for More had a bridge?? I don't remember
@@_waybeom_ I personally consider the dance break as the bridge, idk about anyone else
I think this is also contributing to fans’ exhaustion with repetitive choruses. K-pop has always had simplistic, repetitive lyrics so international fans can sing along but with the shorter songs, that becomes more pronounced and feels less creative.
This is why longer/complete songs like ive's off the record was so underrated because casual fans or the general public only eat up trendy, short and mediocre songs
Off the record is soo good
@GazeMr it is at least catchy, it doesnt have a bridge but the dance break made it feel like a complete song
@@_waybeom_ yes and very underrated and I dont know why😭
@@misterleft240 I thought it was popular?
@@_waybeom_ compared to either way and baddie, it charted low and only receive praises from ktubers and fans like us
This is why drama is my one of the most favorite releases kpop groups put out in 2023. Nice structure, catchy parts (ning² rap in 2nd verse, outro by winter, I bring I bring by winter) and it feels like a complete song.
As the opposite I have sweet venom. As much as it catchy and I'm engene, I don't really like swee-hee-hee-hee being half of the song. It has some structure going on but the length really doesn't help with overwhelming amount of past-chorus or whatever. Belift really should do better, as it's not their first, nor second title song being under 3 minutes.
But I think it is futile to hope for longer songs, because it's apparent, that because of mediocrity as a new standard, companies prefer quantity over quality
Stan Ateez for making good and over 3 mins long songs 🥰
Yesss!! My ult boy group!!😁😁😁
Their songs are long AND THEY HAVE BRIDGES
@@aristocraft2000 they have PHD in building bridges and were first in class as well
*musical terrorism
@@BaddieNoPorsche you just don’t get it babes 🫶
On another note I do agree with this, reminds me of when radio stations refused to hair bohemian rhapsody because "it was too long for radio" But it ended up being super sucessful. Hope isn't lost! Hopefuly!
K-pop is degrading with time and becoming less about the music and more about social media/ visuals sadly tho .
Anddebutingkidsasyoungaspossible
IM SO GLAD WE'RE HAVING SEVERAL VIDEOS FROM CHERYL!! I'VE STREAMED THAT 2 hour long video about jimin and mina about 30+ times already cuz I was missing cheryl a lot. Getting 4 videos in a few days is a blessing 😁😁😁😁
this trend probably started with newjeans and its more of a curse rather than a blessing
I think one of the best songs that came out last year was Key - Killer and that song is almost 4 minutes long. A rarity in Kpop, but I love it because the song never gets old. Usually once songs start to pass the 3min 20sec mark, the song starts to lose steam because the producers don't put anything interesting at the very end of the song.
There needs to be some variety, fun changes, new sounds (and no it doesn't always has to be an aespa or Nmixx genre change up, in fact I'd prefer it not to be) but it DOES need something to end the song. I feel like Dreamcatcher is one of those groups that does really well at making songs feel fresh, even after listening to them for 5+ years. Silent Night, Locked Inside a Door, and In The Frozen are songs that just always feel like the first listen every time.
I agree. I feel like another thing is companies like SM understands not only showing off their skills especially vocalist but understands the concept of keeping everyone hooked. Aespa and red velvet are good examples. Aespa drama brought a completely different vibe and it worked. They played with this dark mysterious vibe in the song along with an electric guitar. Then the members got to show off more rap skills and winter being… winter. Not to mention the whole storyline keeps fans actually wanting more unlike just putting out hardly and making fans juice it out till we are bored. Red velvet have the same thing with reve festival and their songs.
Dream catcher definitely is a prime example of
That's the issue with making songs in the hopes that it will go viral (also with the 1000 dance challenges). Virality is spontaneous and unexpected! I feel like when you focus on it too much, it turns people away.
If it's like one or two songs out of the whole ep/album are 2 mins long, im fine, but if its one or two songs only that is 3 mins out of the whole ep/album then I got a problem with it. This is actually what makes me less impressed with newjeans get up ep. Not saying that their songs was bad, its actually good but the fact that all songs barely reach 3mins makes the whole album feel so rush. I love when songs feel like they are telling a story, a melodic emotions. Most 2 mins songs are just repeated melody, yeah its catchy but it always feel like "it could have been better". I want 3 mins, 4 mins heck even 5 mins songs to show off incredible creative music production, lyrical story telling
Not to mention we aren’t even getting full albums no more. Like literally why is it like 6 songs in an album.
For me the limit is 2:30 long. If a song does not hit that mark I consider it to be a "released demo" and not a "official/finished track"
@@AUGHHHHHBBGit's an EP. It's literally called an EP, it's not an album. They are supposed to be short.
I was listening to TXT - Angel or Devil and I was thinking to myself "wow this song is long"...then I checked the time and it was only 3m50s... my attention span is getting shorter bc all these short songs 😧
another reason companies are making shorter song or less structure kinda ties into your point about awarding mediocrity, is basically idols are just not as talented musically as before. the decline in real singing and performance forces companies to have songs that have less structure and verses or chorus that repeat 5 times in a 2 minute song because the idols just cant carry a tune anymore. this is also reflected in the lack of live singing for lip syncing. companies now do not go out and try to find the next Taeyeon or Wendy, but the next pretty face for more brand endorsement deals.
Kali Uchis has many songs that are of the same length of these K-pop songs but they always feel full and bring something that keeps the listener intrigued. Her songs literally go viral because every part of the song has something special and it feels full and complete. So overall, these K-pop producers need to stop putting short songs with poor quality because IT SHOWS!
literally. if these kpop groups wanna release songs less than 3 minutes, that's fine, but the song should give the average kpop fan some sort fulfillment and interest to hear more from the group. it's just lazy atp to release such sort songs with such empty, generic production.
Itzys three big songs for the born to be comeback are quite short. I only just noticed tho because mr vampire and born to be have SO MUCH detail i like. However, untouchable feels a bit empty at times - it’s the longest of the three
But Mr Vampire and Born to be feels like full songs and don’t seem short. Like Mr Vampire has normal structure with prechorus, chorus and bridge.
Mr Vampire is the best song out of these 3 and it felt complete
Born to be felt empty because of more repetition i guess ?
bestie wdym short? the shortest one, mr vampire is still 2:50 like thats a pretty reasonable song length just bc its (barely) under three minutes doesnt mean its short lol
They're not. Born to be is 3 minutes and 11 seconds long, Mr vampire is 2 seconds less than 3 minutes only and untouchable is 3 minutes and 37 seconds long. They're pretty long for kpop songs nowadays. Plus they don't feel empty especially Mr vampire.
Am I the only one who doesn't think the shorter song epidemic is because of gen z and gen alpha? Gen alpha are like 10 and Gen z are like 20, i just genuinely feel like they want songs to be easier and quicker to stream so more money
Im here early!! Looking forward to it!!
Along with the disappearance of bridges in kpop songs, I also notice the lack of high notes in kpop songs. Except from I guess Nmixx and Aespa, I feel like most songs have no high notes and it's really sad to me bc the high note is the best part of the song imo😓😡😭
A lot of the most famous songs in history are super short. Back in the 19th century phonograph cylinders could only hold around 2 minutes of playtime, when shellac records became a thing in the early 1900s they could also only store around the same amount, and that created a trend among artists and listeners that by the time that the vynil came around that despite allowing longer and more tracks depending on its size artists were still releasing short songs because that's what people were used to, that's what they wanted, hence 3 minutes still being the average length of a song nowadays. Eventually artists were able to make longer songs, which became even more possible due to the advent of Cassetes and eventually CDs, and with it came the demand for longer songs and even more tracks per record. And such thing came and went, it varied from genre to genre, some wanted more, some wanted less, and it hasn't changed. Soon long songs will make a comeback, then shorter songs will return and so on and so forth, but it's the great ones that will stand the test of time and will forever be remembered regardless of how long they are.
And I say this because I'm tired of short songs, but then I go back to my most beloved songs that I grew up listening to and noticed a lot of them don't even hit the 2 minutes and 50 seconds mark, my favorite Brazilian singer's debut album is filled with songs that aren't even 3 minutes long, some are less than 2 minutes, and I love all of them because they're amazing, they do what they must in the amount of time that they ended up having and that's all I need from a song. Sadly the same can't be said about a lot of songs nowadays, they're not products of songwriters creating something that just so happens to be short or because they're putting a lot of effort on something that needs to be short because they can't make it longer or because listeners' standard is that high, how it was a hundred years ago, they do it in whatever way because it doesn't matter if it's good, too many people will eat it up anyway.
Kpop bring back real bridges challenge: *FAILED* 😔.
Also side note: Who listens to Sticker by choice 👀🧐🤨
Me! I also liked the video of Classical musicians analyzing the song😂
Uummm.....I✋
I listen to Sticker by choice to annoy others.
A lot of people that actually like the song.
Learning that some Kpop songs are beginning to be 2 mins now, makes me think we went back in time wherein old songs were only 2 mins to save money.
I love you so much and love listenning to your opinions. Im so happy you are posting a lot rn 🫶🏾
Yayy cheryl didi picked the thumbnail I liked 🥺💙
😘
I get so excited when you upload videos. I love hearing your opinion on things.
gotta say one thing, the lack of bridges makes me appreciate sm and jyp groups more. omgg the bridge from doughnut stays in my head rent free and has been for two years
Thank you for not just simply complaining but also giving reasoning and a possible solution! I'm getting so tired of the constant complaining but no action whatsoever
Im 15, so I myself am a part of the generation that contributed to why this problem exists...
That being said, it just pisses me off when songs are under 3 minutes long. (G)-idle's new album will literally be 19 minutes long which has to be a joke. There are mini albums with 5 songs that are longer than this and a record that isnt even 19 minutes long doesn't deserve to be called a full length album, because it isn't. I think songs should AT LEAST be 3:30min long (excluding intro, interludes and outros) even tho I wouldn't mind if they were as long as up to 5 minutes and when I listen to an album I don't mind if it's 10 minutes or above... Just please give us real music back and not some songs that are made for tiktok.
Considering they release multiple albums a year I feel like it's ok for the songs to be a bit shorter. I'd love longer songs as well but it's not like we're lacking in content. Esp compared to western artists that usually release one album every 2-3 years with a few singles in between.
Also Idle just finished a world tour like a month or two ago or something and are already having a comeback.
I personally feel like kpop fans are so used to getting so much content in a short period of time that when it's shortened like this, or lessened in quantity they are quick to complain as if it's lazy or some sort of cop out. In reality, to release so much content in a year is lot of hard work and requires Soyeon and other artists to constantly be thinking of the next creative thing.
I think this comment section is being a little too harsh/greedy.
One instance that I think was actually crappy though was Le Sserafim's Unforgiven album. It was treated like a full album when half the songs were previously released and one of the new songs wasn't even technically a song, just an intro to the album. They should've labled it as an EP or something and made their upcoming album a full album.
Blackpink (as much as I love the group and their music) I think also lacks quality despite making ppl wait for so long.
i have been listening to other songs (aka non kpop songs) and they easily go over 5-6 minutes. when i first started listening to these songs i found myself not being able to enjoy the song and getting bored by the three minute mark but after a while i got used to these type of songs🙃
same k-pop (and social media) are ruining my attention span, was trying to get into 1st gen, but at first i couldn't handle the over 4 minutes songs, and to think that even interludes were over 2 minutes, wtf happened
Most rock and heavy metal songs last for 4-5 minutes.
Just finished watching and of course the video ate.
While this isn't just a problem within Kpop, I still have hope because there are still examples of longer songs being released. Renaissance was a 1 hour album with VIRGO'S GROOVE getting past the 6m mark. Ariana Grande even released an 5m extended mix for her new single, yes, and?, and these artists are very influential on the industry as a whole. So I hope that other artists reach for this direction and, consequently, kpop stats getting longer songs too.
I think what you said is why people think Ive Have good music their songs have structure
CHERYL IS BACK OMGGGG
I am desperate to have a song with more than 3min. That's why I listened to older songs. But what i remarked is that music responds to trend back in 50s and the 60s songs were short too but like you said it had intro, outro, bridge et chorus.
The Queen speaks her truth
I think it also has to do with limited time on music shows and more groups. I remember some of my fav groups back then used to have to cut their song short, or the broadcast would cut parts out themselves. I think the idea is if the song is short it shouldn't be cut.
You know if our generation does not has this less focus problem we could have had one proper comeback in k-pop a year not 3 or 4 as the company's thinks it is like a race and we have to catch up on things. So we can avoid the trash songs from their discography.
I do believe that shorter songs can work ( ex: Romantic lover by eyedress) but it has to be good and for the reason of making actually good music not the other way around .
TWS debut song was like 2 minutes and 30 seconds long. The melody and hook was amazing and really 3rd gen (especially GFRIEND like), but it was missing a last chorus and the sudden instrumental dance part after the 1st chorus only appeared once which is confusing.
Yeah they packed their songs full of interesting moments I was so surprised they are really good
Great video ❤❤❤
Rick Beato did a review statistics about the length of music over the past decades. Cheryl’s key point was the problem he also pointed.
I recommend watching it, it’s an insightful video
I feel like for gidle, people is forgetting how hard is making good music. Gidle always working, Soyeon bring her laptop everywhere, still they are clearly overworked and that fact that they make their own music, honestly i just really appreciate a 2 minute song i don't really care about that.
Ikr
Then Soyeon should get off her high horse and let others also produce for her. She can produce the title track if she is so desperate for being selfproducing, but can let others produce the b-sides. Like BTS are also selfproducing, but they still have tracks that are produced by someone else. I Want That was (G)i-dle best song for a long time and Soyeon had no hand in producing that song, so maybe it is for the best that Soyeon has less hands in the music.
@@vixxexo6855 "I want that was gidle's best song for a long time" Tell me, how should I argue with you when you don't even have taste. That's your opinion, other than that people like me, love them and their current products. Furthermore, it's really annoying that whatever we speak about a female idol you guys have to mention male idols. Let's not pretend that they have the same freedom to produce music. High horse? Maybe, you are the one who is sitting upside down on that freaking horse! Lastly, why should she give others chance "like bts" when bts had the most underwhelming downgrade in K-pop. Let's not compare the two.
@@vixxexo6855 People complain when g idle get a song that isnt produce by them because ''they can tell'', and if not the critisize soyeon when she is working her ass off
@@vixxexo6855 also, no, that song was not the best song of G Idle at all
Hey Cheryl ,
I don't know if you would see this but can you do stage presence analysis of NewJeans, Le sserafim , Kiss of Life and Nmixx ?
In your post about (G)I-DLE's latest release I commented that I will not listen to that album because of it's length. I only listen to songs with over 2:30 because otherwise it always felt incomplete to me, and people called me dumb for not consuming a type of content I dislike
feel like yesterday that people were complaining about aespa savage when it dropped saying that were doing to much that the song was long, that the highnotes where too much and long 😭, it was more funny when SM did not give a f* and aespa had a comeback with a way longer song, girls was crazy
"Wife" is a pre release single .
okay and?
Funny name i still don't know which group she's talking about
@@Th3Visitor it's G-idle
doesn't mean it has to be so short and mediocre, and don't even come with the "it's sarcasm" excuse, a sarcastic song can be good, like queencard
@@konvaliastreams
I said that because Cheryl said that she doesn't know what it would be classified as since it's not a bside from the new comeback.
No need to be so rude
honestly, even my own personal songs barely make it past 3 minutes
then it gets hard to find ways to extend them
everyone stream ootd by dreamcatcher!! it’s 3:52 seconds & a great song!! stan dreamcatcher!!!
OOTD was love at first listen for me ngl
Speaking of shorter Dreamcatcher songs- did you know Good Night is around 2:55 mins long? I genuinely thought it was longer than that for so long xD
@@faevondergeist67 i never knew that either haha! i don’t usually pay attention to song lengths, but this is quite shocking LOL,, especially in 2017! perfect example of a song that feels complete enough for you not to notice though!!
I AGREE SM!!!
cheryl thank you for constantly feeding us
Good things about being lyOn:
- Instrumental tracks to set the mood and connect the album for a seamless experience.
- Songs with intro, verse, chorus, instrumental break, bridge, outro and not always including a rap part.
- Only a few tracks shorter than 3 minutes.
- Participation of members in music production, songwriting, choreography, MV's concepts. Songs with serious themes. Honest sexuality.
🦁💜
My personal motto with new songs is to listen to the first verse and chorus. If you don't love it, try it again in a day or two. If you still don't like it, it's probably not to your taste
The 'skip a day and listen again' might be the only reason im obsessed with o.o and all of nmixx's mixxpop tracks ( except dash, loved it from the start)
I will never understand people who skip songs after 5 seconds
you're right. good songs never feel long. these days I am listening to Taylor Swift's cardigan and I didn't know it was almost 4 minutes long for several days.
Another great video, Everglow-Up! The FIFTY-FIFTY hurt feels are real, in my opinion. I just want to say side note: Your videos helped me enjoy my time in college (go watch the "Pick Me's of K-Pop" video, it's gold, in my opinion, for anyone reading this). I'm officially a graduate, and I want to thank you for your hard work. Stay amazing, stay safe, and have a great whatever time of day it is, when (or if) you see this long comment (lol). Thank you again, take care Cheryl! :)
I don't understand why people trashing their whole discography because of one darn song
which one
as if their discography after soojin was kicked out hasn't significantly changed for the worse
It's because most people haven't listened to the whole albums, and honestly you can't blame them because the title track and other releases with a video should be the thing that attracts you to the album itself. And although I love G-Idle and think they're icons, if I wasn't completely aware of who they are and saw just Wife I would never take a deeper dive into their discography because even tho the songs have good concepts and messages they really aren't that interesting to listen to and lack a lot compared to their previous title tracks. We have to wait for the title track tho, fingers crossed it's iconic (in Soyeon we trust hahah)!
@@paradisenow___but it really hasn’t gotten worse. It’s changed, yes, but to say it’s worse than before Soojin’s departure is extreme. It may not be your cup of tea, but they have been very successful in the past two years, so something is obviously working.
@@ryanostone22 just because it's been successful doesn't mean it's good, especially when their audience will eat up anything, like wife ; production/arrangement-wise it's still good but composition and lyricism-wise they've reached a new low, doesn't matter whether it's sarcastic or not, you can't compare a song like hann (alone in winter) or hwaa to nxde or even tomboy
5:12
This is the exact reason why "Baddie" is not considered a good song . Because it starts with the chorus. The voices sound so good but the song just sounds weird .
I often prefer to listen to Off The Record over Baddie
cant relate tbh
yeah you're right, in my opinion that's the only flaw the song has along with the lyrics
Same
Off the record >>> Baddie
I live for 5min songs 🧎♀️
I have found a new appreciation of shorter songs
nothing with what you said but emails i cant send is amazing and deserved more then what it got
Completely agree about the Sabrina Carpenter take. Been a fan since 2018 and knew her work needed to be appreciated. Emails I Can’t Send was a no skip album through and through and it kinda irritates me that Nonsense and Feather are the most popular songs when there’s the self titled track, Bad Times, and Decode sitting right there along with songs from her other albums like Paris or Exhale. Obviously still happy with her success though
As a intp/5 enneagram with adhd, I feel that many of us want to know what is trending is because is makes us feel smart, yeah in a weird way makes me feel like I know what everyone else know so am not behind.
Also about wanting things shorter, I think is because we have been played before, many times you watch a video that is 20 minutes and is just a waste of time so next time you want the video to just go straight to point to know if is worth it.
this growing trend in shorter songs in the k-pop industry just feels insulting to people to listen and pursue these groups. i can't imagine how annoying it would be to fall in love with the music of ive, new jeans or other 4th gen groups, only to eventually realise that with already short discographies and only a few years of making music, these groups have an average song runtime of 2 minutes to 2 and a half minutes. as somebody invested in musical genres and subcultures, I can't help but notice there's no real excuse or validity for these companies to release such short songs and such short mini albums. pinkpantheress for example, she has released relatively short songs and has gotten a lot of praise for them, both by critics and people on tik tok. new jeans has been compared to pinkpantheress in terms of genre - UK garage and cute dance-pop. however, the reason why I have 10x more appreciation for pinkpantheress and stream her music, is not because I think new jeans' music is bad (it's not bad at all), but because the latter if funded by a million dollar CORPORATION, yet these producers are purposely being lazy and releasing songs under 3 minutes. I can understand why pinkpantheress has a short discography cause she makes the music mainly by herself. she can only make so much. but new jeans has many producers and songwriters available for them. no hate to the members though.
In terms of the k-pop industry and the way it works, I can't...defend it? I can understand that most k-pop groups are designed to be commercially friendly and chart super well - whether that be domestically or internationally - but they're releasing music. It still needs to be good quality and actual effort needs to put into it. K-pop groups aren't indie, they're corporate, and that inherently means the music should be well sort, produced and given that a lot of these short-song groups are part of popular labels, they're ALREADY going to sell and chart well with whatever title track. Why does new jeans need to release a 12 minute long 6 track EP, when in reality, if they released a 20 minute EP with a 3 minute long title track, they would STILL chart well and get good attention. I don't understand why some k-pop groups feel the need to shorten their songs and give them over the top hooks, as if these songs would not trend well even if they made the songs long enough. People love UK garage, RnB and EDM. They're all currently trendy genres of music. Making them more "pop", short and watering them down in production doesn't do anything, except increase your streaming numbers by a few millions + gain a reputation of forgettable, lackluster music.
as someone else said I feel like this shortening trend can be seen other places too, since society as a whole (the part of society that's present & active online) is getting shorter and shorter attention spans and business models need to accommodate to monetie or capitalize of their attention... sucks that everyones got falsely induced ADHD nowadays but for this I appreciate the songs / artists that clearly care / try even more.
My most recently fav song is (not a kpop song) 7 minutes long and I taste every second of it.
Girll drop the title don't leave us hanging!!
@@emaaa78787is an old song, "sympathy for the devil" by the rolling stone, also guns n' roses has a version of the same song.
2 of my faves are 4:35 and 5 mins long respectively and I wouldn't cut out any part of them
@@emaaa78787 most indian song and some American songs are above 6-7 minutes long
I want to see four or five minute songs trending on social media, not this! Bring the long songs back!!!!!
When groups that have released more than 20 songs and yet have less than 1h30 mins of listening time, you know something is wrong
I am not sure if this is a hot take. Short songs can be good (ex: God's Menu by Stray Kids and Evil Eye by Fran Frendez). The problem is the quality. Enhypen's Bite Me is bad compared to Super Shy by New Jeans. Long songs aren't dead either. Vampire by Olivia Rodrigo lasts almost four minutes and hell, King Wizard and Glizzard Lizard drop a 14 MINUTE SONG last year
Someone called newjeans album get up a album full of tiktok songs and i can't forget this sentence now
I agree with the structure thing. It's hard to believe that songs like Batter Up last 3'09 minutes with 2 verses, 2 refrains, 2 prechoruses and 2 short choruses + an outro while songs like After Like have three verses (including the rap), 2 prechoruses, 3 choruses, 1 bridge (first of the two "last choruses") and 3 post-choruses. DM by fromis 9 was such a good song and it didn't feel like there were many different verses, different bridges, different structure changes ("i got a boy" i'm looking at you), just 2 verses, 1 refrain, 3 long choruses, and one bridge. A song can feel simplistic and yet last 3'24, with a good and solid structure. And trust me, I felt so weird when I learnt that Batter Up was longer than I AM 😭😭😭
I’m glad ur talking about this cus music quality been so bad… like it’s just about views, charts, and Money. Even on twitter some army was shaming ive saying it’s sad that I’ve is most relevant in Korea or if your on twitter right now you know about fearnots coming for ive and shaming them for not having a lot of views the first day of their single. All I hear is views and charts.
Meanwhile we have hardly any time in songs and the groups skills are wasted. Like I’m still mad over the 30 seconds we got for get up. Y’all really couldn’t do a 3 minute song? Even itzy solo songs not only was short but also felt even shorter. Not to mention your point on mediocre issue is something I been talking about since baby monster debut and why yg treating them the way they did. The song is mediocre, feels reused, and feels short. These girls are full of vocalist and they are playing in hip hop cus they saw how yg stans refuse to care about better choreo, hardly any singing or when they sing they will rave over any note that go higher than their normal singing voice even if it’s hardly anything (ex. On the ground or Jennie cover of snowman).
Us Stan’s seriously need to up the standards cus we gonna keep getting this.not to mention especially girl group Stan’s cus boy groups are struggling with this and still putting out good quality, effort, and long full songs (like straykids, TXT, ateez, etc)
for me, only red velvet’s music has been able to withstand the test of time.. even now amidst the over saturation of kpop groups, i regularly go back to red velvet’s music. their songs feel complete, and have impeccable vocals
a huge letdown for me was enhypen’s Sweet Venom… why is half the song made up of “hee hee”s.. and why is the song 2:28?? i expected much better since they’ve had amazing songs in the past - and the members can definitely sing 🙁also, New Jeans’ ‘Get Up’ EP was a huge disappointment because they were soo obviously made for just the charts 😭😭
i think the saddest part is companies will continue to do this for a long time, because these short track lengths definitely help them chart higher .. i’ll just continue skipping low effort music while hoping RV continues to return at least once a year 😬
Definitely agree with this, I’m starting to get tired of Kpop, I don’t feel the same excitement with comebacks anymore. It has also happened with western music which I don’t like as much anymore either. It is so sad 😢
I can't believe that people are actually judging Gidle's discography based on one song. Queencard was a song that was made for fun and people are still trying to hate on it . Soyeon even stated that it was meant to be a parody. It did well on TikTok because of how catchy it was .
I love Gidle but I did get the vibe that they knew while making the song that it would do well on TikTok ( and it did) .
So many groups are doing this nowadays.
At least 3rd gen groups aren't doing this too much like Red Velvet, Exo , Twice ( Pop is one out of 1-2 songs that did well on TikTok . That's it ) , Mamamoo ( Not ILMB tho . Illela was not a song made for TikTok tho) etc .
Exactly. Like it’s fine if you don’t like it, that’s perfectly normal, but to completely write off a group’s entire discography bc of a couple songs is wrong.
@@ryanostone22I was/am a big Idle fan but I definitely prefer their older stuff to their more recent title tracks and almost without exception the older songs are over 3 minutes and the newer ones aren’t. I don’t blame them for capitalizing on the trend but I was hoping this one would go back toward focusing on the art. Maybe it does, we will see.
@@edvaedan9161
They would but the thing is that people nowadays have a short attention span as Cheryl said . If they do make longer songs , it would not be as big .
This is because they still don't have an extremely good fandom base like Twice who still make 3 minute songs .
Their fandom is now being joined by newer kpop stans who get bored by longer songs . This is the exact groups why older groups are not as relevant anymore.
@@edvaedan9161I do hope that we get longer songs in the next album .
@@Devina_Singh I think it’s just a cycle and it will change again. Hopefully soon.
what you said about blackpink is so real! i feel like both yg and bp themselves don't really feel the need to put more effort into their songs or try new genres because of how insanely loyal and defensive their fanbase is. they found a formula that worked once and they continue recycling and spitting out the same formula for all of their title tracks.
it doesn't matter how mediocre the song is or how bad the lyrics are, as long as you're popular enough and have a strong fanbase. there's a reason why people still like typa girl despite it being misogynistic and pick-me. it's really upsetting because the members of bp are NOT untalented. they just don't try anymore. but when you try to say this to blinks, they just accuse you of being a jealous hater.
3:45
This is what noticed the other day, apparently Mafia in The Morning by Itzy was only 2:48 minutes long. I was so shocked, but the song was good
If you can't sit through a song for 3 and a half minutes, go take a pill - my gosh. I really wish companies weren't catering to unmedicated ADD babies Q.Q
A healthy mix of both short and long songs is nice, but seeing an "album" have 10 songs and not even hit the 25min mark yet alone 30min+ - sucks SO much.
ik it's not a super major part of this video, but the sabrina thing! There are so many great songs on eics and its so disappointing to see so many of them get disregarded