First they wanted to use the Akira class as the hero ship in Enterprise and right after that they rejected a finished design because it had "not enough windows" and used a completely inappropriate K'tinga instead. Enterprise's producers must have been utter morons.
One point I'd make is that the Klingon D4 is the Starfleet name. So is the D5. I think if you are going to retcon the two ships, it's possible to say the D4 was constructed after the D5, but service time overlapped. The D4 was spotted by Starfleet intelligence first, and was given the name D4, then D5 was spotted, and since the D4 was already named, it was called D5. But in actuality, the D4 is a newer ship than the D5.
Wait, this is what was supposed to there in that episode with the aliens with the hologram tech? And the producers dismissed it because of 'too many windows'?! And I reckon those same people still wonder why Enterprise flopped.
am i the only one who is thinking the D-class is a Vulcan thing like NATO reporting names for aircraft so maybe the D-4 is newer but not as well known as the D-5
am thinking the D-4 maybe like the Tu-22 Blinder and Tu-22M backfire both sort of look the same only one is older and one is newer so maybe a older D-4 and a newer all new "D-4M" which the Vulcan thought was only refit like how NATO thought the Tu-22M was just a modified "M" Tu-22 blinder
"They won't notice" Jesus, its the one thing they will notice, that design is an icon. The D-7 was second to the enterprise in popularity on the original run. *facepalm*
Speaking of D7's I always wondered why my Dinky D7 battlecruser was made in two tone colours - it turns out that is correct the underside was indeed painted a lighter shade than the top was - it just didn't show up well on camera.
This was a great video that encapsulates everything I dig about Mission Briefing - it's in-depth and you guys actually extrapolate from the data you have available to come up with an as-close-to-canon-as-possible determination on a non-canon ship. Great, great stuff.
Whenever I hear stuff like this I am reminded of “They’d never let us do anything that cool on the show.” But this feels like not just disrespecting the fans but disrespecting the franchise to pull off something this cheap. Really, if you are attempting to fool the fans then just who are you fooling? I also have no issue with that being the D4 if you take the D5 from The Animated Series as the next evolution.
im loving your show guys, how about some starfleet command ships? i grew up playing the starfleet command and klingon academy games so those ships are very much part of my "head canon". like to see maybe an episode featuring the fed frigate, fed dreadnought (Ulysses class) and fed battleship (yamato class)
I think ( and I bet Stuart will know) that a version of this ship was in a Star Fleet Battles supplement. BTW Stuart , have you and your brother tried Federation Commander?
Enterprise (the show) actually helps provide a good excuse for the Torpedo tube / Deflector argument (Though I tend to just think the deflector system is in the leading edge of the wings and the main sensors are the cog shape around the torpedo launcher). But if you wanted to see it as the Deflector - it could also be the Torpedo launcher the end of the dish just might pivot up like a door and the torpedoes load in underneath. or a Plasma Torpedo launcher could be mounted in the same place too. I think the forward distributors might be the two bumps on the underside of the top hat of the Bridge Module on the original D7, but the original is so clean - you can place anything anywhere you like and just say it's hidden from view in normal flight.
One possible explanation might be that the D-4 is developed by the same design team as the later D6 and D7 but perhaps the D-5 was from another design group and performed better for whatever the Klingon High Command were asking for at the time.
When you look at the D4 concept side by side with the D5, the D4's engine struts of the wings are swept back quite a bit. if you match up the impulse decks of the two, the D5 is longer.
The front tube is a torpedo launcher. I understand that Jefferies meant it to be a deflector, but TMP threw that theory out the airlock. Then you have it repeated in TWOK and TSFS, albeit a BoP - though that arguably strengthens the torpedo launcher argument. It's established canon. ;)
Every tweet that comes out about Discovery reminds me way to much of the mindset that makes the current movie an exercise in exasperation, or that lead to the kind of choices that got the K'Tinga in service for way to long and even bordered on making them interchangeable between D7 & K'Tinga which yeah they look similar - but do does an Ambassador class and the Enterprise refit. Or to put it another way they say they care about what they are doing - but only up to a point and though I may have the odd problem with Mike Okuda from time to time - at least when there is one "go to guy" who even the producers listen too - then the screw ups are drastically reduced. If they'd really had any guts they'd have spent the money and retrofitted their mistakes out - you can have multiple versions of a Movie (like Clue, Aliens or Blade Runner) so why not of the TV show episodes too ? Oh well maybe one day in some future Sci-fi sounding year someone will be thinking lets do a 8K or greater release of Enterprise and there might be the opportunity to remove some flubs. Belanna's Klingon Stalkers was the worse though as that fudged up the difference between a D-7 and a K'Tinga as they couldn't be bothered to dig out the DS9 version D7 or change the dialogue to somehow - but the k'Tinga wouldn't make sense there either when they are still in service in that time having Tom say they were not would make him sound ignorant. so the dialogue is correct the model is wrong.
I know people rave about this ship but too me it looks like a video game STO design. It's the problem with CGI it's for some reason an inhibitor to creativity. The wire struts really serve no useful purpose The Warp Engines look like something out of star wars
They are supposed too - it's a device that ionises or de-ionises the warp plasma residue - likely as a means to make the ship harder to track using it's plasma trail. They were supposed to have holes in them but it got left out of the model so now it just looks like a funny hole, rather than a functional part. Besides it's no weirder than putting the Bussard collectors on the front of nacelles when they have no logical reason other than to be as far away as possible from the deflector as possible - if the deflector was engineered to have gaps the Bussards could be clustered around the deflector instead (like those odd rectangular bit on the refit connie are on the front of the secondary hull. Take the Olympica class Pasteur for an example the Bussard collector would work just as well on the bottom of the secondary hull or either side of the Primary hull sphere. On a Klingon ship they'd be just fine at the base of the neck.
Just a thought, The rigging are sensor bands that later on could be incorporated into the hull. I think the d5 should be the d4 and this d4 should be the d5 idk I love Ent. But the ships really annoy me lol.
Why would natural progression always be bigger? Tech get's smaller, size fits the needs, maybe the D5 did the same as the D4 just better on smaller size. :)
Because each enterprise got bigger as larger crews were needed for longer missions and etc...same for klingon ships for the most part...ktinga to vorcha to negvarh...the ships of the line get larger in Trek.
It is true, you are right on that, i just don't see it as a MUST... and even for the Enterprises, is the E really bigger than the D? I know it's longer, but mass-whise it kinda doesn't look like it' got bigger. It's more 'sleek', as you like to say. ;) Which is basically my point, streamlining happens next to upping the size, and sometimes outweighs the size increase. And to come back to the point, the D5 in the Video looks a lot more streamlined thatn the shown D4, which means maybe they just got every component in they need for a Warship with their requirements to that specific ship. :)
We have not done a mission briefing style yet but we will! :D We have however talked to Rick Sternbach in a single designing episode about her over a year ago but dont worry we will cover her again!
The use of the K'Tinga in that ep is just maddening, and i've always thought this D4 design was gorgeous, terrible shame.
Maddening? It was idiotic and insulting to Trek fans.
I agree with the Commander that this design works better as a D6.
First they wanted to use the Akira class as the hero ship in Enterprise and right after that they rejected a finished design because it had "not enough windows" and used a completely inappropriate K'tinga instead. Enterprise's producers must have been utter morons.
God damn this model is NICE why didnt they use this D: Its AWESOME :D I dont even like klingon ships but I love this one
"the fans won't notice."
Yeah...Paramount just sux.
"The fans won't notice."
Hah, they never learn... ^^
One point I'd make is that the Klingon D4 is the Starfleet name. So is the D5. I think if you are going to retcon the two ships, it's possible to say the D4 was constructed after the D5, but service time overlapped. The D4 was spotted by Starfleet intelligence first, and was given the name D4, then D5 was spotted, and since the D4 was already named, it was called D5. But in actuality, the D4 is a newer ship than the D5.
Captain Bueller.
D4 on its way from Eaglemoss 😎😎😎!!!!
If they ever remaster enterprise, they better put this ship in place of the K'tinga
Wait, this is what was supposed to there in that episode with the aliens with the hologram tech? And the producers dismissed it because of 'too many windows'?! And I reckon those same people still wonder why Enterprise flopped.
am i the only one who is thinking the D-class is a Vulcan thing like NATO reporting names for aircraft so maybe the D-4 is newer but not as well known as the D-5
Exactly.
I thought the same thing, like a Foxtrot class or something, the way we used to name Soviet subs because we didn't know their designation.
am thinking the D-4 maybe like the Tu-22 Blinder and Tu-22M backfire both sort of look the same only one is older and one is newer so maybe a older D-4 and a newer all new "D-4M" which the Vulcan thought was only refit like how NATO thought the Tu-22M was just a modified "M" Tu-22 blinder
"They won't notice" Jesus, its the one thing they will notice, that design is an icon. The D-7 was second to the enterprise in popularity on the original run. *facepalm*
Speaking of D7's I always wondered why my Dinky D7 battlecruser was made in two tone colours - it turns out that is correct the underside was indeed painted a lighter shade than the top was - it just didn't show up well on camera.
Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam
Thinkgeek is selling a bluetooth TNG combadge, $79.99, taking pre-orders now.
This was a great video that encapsulates everything I dig about Mission Briefing - it's in-depth and you guys actually extrapolate from the data you have available to come up with an as-close-to-canon-as-possible determination on a non-canon ship. Great, great stuff.
Whenever I hear stuff like this I am reminded of “They’d never let us do anything that cool on the show.”
But this feels like not just disrespecting the fans but disrespecting the franchise to pull off something this cheap. Really, if you are attempting to fool the fans then just who are you fooling?
I also have no issue with that being the D4 if you take the D5 from The Animated Series as the next evolution.
im loving your show guys, how about some starfleet command ships? i grew up playing the starfleet command and klingon academy games so those ships are very much part of my "head canon". like to see maybe an episode featuring the fed frigate, fed dreadnought (Ulysses class) and fed battleship (yamato class)
I think ( and I bet Stuart will know) that a version of this ship was in a Star Fleet Battles supplement. BTW Stuart , have you and your brother tried Federation Commander?
Enterprise had so many fails. let's face it, the NX01 was just an akira Class turned upside down with modified nacelles.
Enterprise (the show) actually helps provide a good excuse for the Torpedo tube / Deflector argument (Though I tend to just think the deflector system is in the leading edge of the wings and the main sensors are the cog shape around the torpedo launcher).
But if you wanted to see it as the Deflector - it could also be the Torpedo launcher the end of the dish just might pivot up like a door and the torpedoes load in underneath. or a Plasma Torpedo launcher could be mounted in the same place too.
I think the forward distributors might be the two bumps on the underside of the top hat of the Bridge Module on the original D7, but the original is so clean - you can place anything anywhere you like and just say it's hidden from view in normal flight.
One possible explanation might be that the D-4 is developed by the same design team as the later D6 and D7 but perhaps the D-5 was from another design group and performed better for whatever the Klingon High Command were asking for at the time.
When you look at the D4 concept side by side with the D5, the D4's engine struts of the wings are swept back quite a bit. if you match up the impulse decks of the two, the D5 is longer.
Love it and have placed my order with Eaglemoss - the best looking ship in the collection in an age. 😎😎😎
Yeah to me it looks timeline wise the D4 and D5 should be swapped around
Cool!!! Please do the warp delta ship from Enterprise.
The front tube is a torpedo launcher. I understand that Jefferies meant it to be a deflector, but TMP threw that theory out the airlock. Then you have it repeated in TWOK and TSFS, albeit a BoP - though that arguably strengthens the torpedo launcher argument. It's established canon. ;)
I mean, why wouldn't you expect the Klingons to have a giant weapon on the front of their ships?
Great model. Would have loved to see more of this on Enterprise.
Every tweet that comes out about Discovery reminds me way to much of the mindset that makes the current movie an exercise in exasperation, or that lead to the kind of choices that got the K'Tinga in service for way to long and even bordered on making them interchangeable between D7 & K'Tinga which yeah they look similar - but do does an Ambassador class and the Enterprise refit.
Or to put it another way they say they care about what they are doing - but only up to a point and though I may have the odd problem with Mike Okuda from time to time - at least when there is one "go to guy" who even the producers listen too - then the screw ups are drastically reduced.
If they'd really had any guts they'd have spent the money and retrofitted their mistakes out - you can have multiple versions of a Movie (like Clue, Aliens or Blade Runner) so why not of the TV show episodes too ?
Oh well maybe one day in some future Sci-fi sounding year someone will be thinking lets do a 8K or greater release of Enterprise and there might be the opportunity to remove some flubs. Belanna's Klingon Stalkers was the worse though as that fudged up the difference between a D-7 and a K'Tinga as they couldn't be bothered to dig out the DS9 version D7 or change the dialogue to somehow - but the k'Tinga wouldn't make sense there either when they are still in service in that time having Tom say they were not would make him sound ignorant. so the dialogue is correct the model is wrong.
That is why I am holding out for a Technical Manual. You can say a lot about Gene Roddenberry, but he ran a tight ship.
I know people rave about this ship but too me it looks like a video game STO design. It's the problem with CGI it's for some reason an inhibitor to creativity.
The wire struts really serve no useful purpose
The Warp Engines look like something out of star wars
They are supposed too - it's a device that ionises or de-ionises the warp plasma residue - likely as a means to make the ship harder to track using it's plasma trail. They were supposed to have holes in them but it got left out of the model so now it just looks like a funny hole, rather than a functional part.
Besides it's no weirder than putting the Bussard collectors on the front of nacelles when they have no logical reason other than to be as far away as possible from the deflector as possible - if the deflector was engineered to have gaps the Bussards could be clustered around the deflector instead (like those odd rectangular bit on the refit connie are on the front of the secondary hull.
Take the Olympica class Pasteur for an example the Bussard collector would work just as well on the bottom of the secondary hull or either side of the Primary hull sphere. On a Klingon ship they'd be just fine at the base of the neck.
What a great looking ship. Keep up the good job.
Just a thought, The rigging are sensor bands that later on could be incorporated into the hull. I think the d5 should be the d4 and this d4 should be the d5 idk I love Ent. But the ships really annoy me lol.
Or just name the D5 and the Raptor...Raptor Class Scout(original raptor) and Raptor Class Cruiser....They fit better with each other.
I wonder who gave them the model.....hmmmm......
Great episode guys! Can you guys do a video about Yorktown station?
funny you mention Yorktown ;)
+power543 Why?
Filming it this weekend!
+Trekyards Awesome! can't wait to here your thoughts!
Have to agree, the rigging is bad.
Why would natural progression always be bigger? Tech get's smaller, size fits the needs, maybe the D5 did the same as the D4 just better on smaller size. :)
Because each enterprise got bigger as larger crews were needed for longer missions and etc...same for klingon ships for the most part...ktinga to vorcha to negvarh...the ships of the line get larger in Trek.
It is true, you are right on that, i just don't see it as a MUST... and even for the Enterprises, is the E really bigger than the D? I know it's longer, but mass-whise it kinda doesn't look like it' got bigger. It's more 'sleek', as you like to say. ;) Which is basically my point, streamlining happens next to upping the size, and sometimes outweighs the size increase. And to come back to the point, the D5 in the Video looks a lot more streamlined thatn the shown D4, which means maybe they just got every component in they need for a Warship with their requirements to that specific ship. :)
Very awesome video.
will you be talk about Intrepid. at some point? I want to know what you think of it.
They already have
when?
We have not done a mission briefing style yet but we will! :D We have however talked to Rick Sternbach in a single designing episode about her over a year ago but dont worry we will cover her again!
ah ok.