What If The Montreal ScrewJob Never Happened?
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- The Montreal ScrewJob, the black eye on the Industry. No matter how much time has passed, it's still gets talked about. However, the biggest problem is that is Screwed more than just Bret Hart, it screwed Stone Cold Steve Austin, it screwed Wrestlemania and it Screwed all of us, the WWE or WWF Fans. We were all robbed and it's time to find out just how the Montral Screw Job screwed all of us out of the Great Wrestlemania Main Event of All Time.
Vince should have just swallowed his pride, budgeted the money for payroll and offered The Hitman a new contract that could have expired the day after WrestleMania XIV. Not only would we have seen possibly the greatest WM Main Event ever but all parties involved would have been satisfied as we all would have seen the final chapter in the year and a half fued of Austin vs Hart. Bret would have dropped the belt and passed the torch to a Superstar he respected the most before departing for WCW and Vince would have made so much more than he actually did maybe enough to fund a big Stadium WrestleMania a lot sooner
The Rimas Why would he do that fo Brett when he did notfor so many others. At the time there was nothing more to do with Brett. He worked with everyone and frankly he was getting really stale. Hell WCW didnt know what to do with him and did nothing with him aand theyre the ones who paid for him. You can say dream match dream match dream match all youwant but Brett already worked lost won to everyone and the guy had contol. If im Vince i do the same thing.....it was best for business.
The Rimas But wasn't the reaction to the Screw Job(McMahon thought he was the face and Bret the heel in the situation, lol) what started the Mr McMahon evil authority figure that fueled the Attitude Era, with him feuding against Stone Cold? I love what ifs, but I wouldn't want to lose the Attitude Era's awesomeness :)
yeeeeaaaah that's nice and all, but Wrestlemania's 18, 19, 20, 21 and 22 look so nice indoors!
Plus Owen Wouldn't Had Died Cause Bret Wouldn't Allow It To Happen
@@munstrumridcully Only Mr McMahon vs. Austin never made any sense when that same McMahon had not only worked fine with the equally obscene Shawn Michaels but had even installed him as champion to begin with. McMahon's opposition againt Austin would have made more sense if Austin had defeated Bret "The Righteous" Hart.
Of course, that's restricting Mr McMahon to the character in 1998, before the concept went south with things like the Coporate Ministry, the Kiss-My-Ass Club or Barking Trish.
This much I know: Bret wouldn't have retired so soon. Also, he wouldn't have had such a horrible WCW run.
Yet another reason why the screwjob was bad
@@DaveKnowsWrestling And that concussion from a botched superkick from Goldberg wouldn't have happened and we would have seen him go up against newer talent for even more history making moments.
Owen would still be alive if there was no Montreal screwjob
That's a disturbingly good point
Bret didnt actually want to leave WWE. Also he just didnt want to drop the title in Canada. But was more than willing to drop it at Raw the following week. He also really wanted to drop it to Austin.
He already signed WCW contract before Montreal screwjob
The greatest Wrestlemania moment we never got; that was Hogan v Flair.
That would have been a great one for sure
I think they waited to long. When Flair came to WWF it didn't feel right. We felt like Flair was making a cash grab and didn't fit in the WWF. Flair was a real pro wrestler and his style just didn't gel. They did not use Flair proper either. They could have used him to greatly improved ring work at that time. Especially with some of the other guys there who were ring techs. But WWF fell flat with Flair booking. And Ric phoned in a lot of promos and matches. But I still love Flair.
They've fought plenty of times before that and each time was a failure and yes was supposed to happen but it was cut short
It happened in WCW and it wasn't great. Flair is so down on himself and let Hogan dominate him. Flair vs Vader was way better.
I remember being so pumped that Flair and Hogan were heading in that direction...and then being really disappointed that it didn't happen.
Andre vs Rey Mysterio Jr in a submission match would've been the best match ever.
Hogan vs Jake the snake, Hogan vs steamboat, Hogan vs stone cold, undertaker vs sting, rock vs Shawn michaels, Mr Perfect vs Rick Rude...just a few main events I would have like to have happened
Those are some great matches for a wishlist
bob w hogan vs jake! Re-fuckin-spect bro! 💪💪
Here's another. Kurt Angle vs Bret Hart...
The problem is that Bret was already leaving for WCW before the screwjob, plus while Austin was getting more popular with each and every day the one thing that really propelled him was his rivalry with mr McMahon, who was only created as a character due to the Montreal screw job. And the Austin v McMahon rivalry was the big thing during the attitude era that helped end WCW's ratings wins.
Austin and Vince did not feud until after Austin won the title at Wrestlemania. Austin grew his popularity during his feud with Bret. The Mr McMahon character was first conceived by Vince McMahon when he wanted to be a wrestler, McMahon's gimmick that he originally wanted was the Million Dollar Man, when Vince didn't become a wrestler, he gave the gimmick to Ted Dibiase. Then years later, he combined it with a rip off of what Bischoff was doing in WCW at the time
@@DaveKnowsWrestlingyou still didn’t address that Bret was already leaving to wcw even if the screw job didn’t happen
Bret could've played the whole corporate champion going into WMXIV.
It was one Marine not 5, everybody in San Antonio knows he can't fight. We laughed when that show came on because we knew it was a lie. Like Marty said Shawn can wrestle but he can't fight
Wait, didn't Bret said that he'll drop the belt to Shawn after Survivor Series because he's going to WCW?
Yes, he did mention that
@@DaveKnowsWrestling this show WWE was never danger going out of business.in worst case they been second in rating Time for some number crunching, as Dave looks at both WWF and WCW and compares TV ratings and house show attendance numbers for the last 5 years in great detail. There's a lot of numbers and stuff here but I'll try to sum it up easily. When it comes to WCW, they're obviously in the midst of their hottest run ever. But there's a misconception that WCW winning the cable ratings war is some new thing, when in reality, WCW has pretty much always beaten WWF in cable ratings, with the Saturday Night show beating early Raw and Prime Time ratings all the time, but they weren't in prime time. And no one really paid attention until the companies began going head-to-head on Monday nights. The truth is, yes, WCW is winning the war but the alleged "decline of WWF" is overrated. 1996 was WWF's strongest house show year since 1991, even though their TV ratings have hit new lows. But overall, WWF is still doing strong business everywhere else and TV ratings haven't shown to have that much effect on ticket sales. In fact, WWF's house show business grew at a faster rate than WCW's did last year and with increased ticket prices, their house show business became even more profitable. There's a perception from people who believe the Monday night ratings are the entire business and believe WWF is in trouble because they're losing the ratings war, but overall, they're still pretty strong (I find stuff like this interesting, because the revisionist version of history is that WCW damn near put WWF out of business until Vince heroically fought back and conquered his enemy. Reality is, they were never even remotely in danger of it and aside from TV ratings, they were doing their best business in years on every other front. Sure, they were a distant second in TV ratings but in all other aspects of the business, WCW was only barely winning).
A bit late. Great video But can you do one hypothetical what if Bret Hart stayed during the entire Attitude era ?
This video is just that, what is it that you're looking for
Not to mention having BRET/TYSON Dynamic
added to the rub SCSA
was already getting from
The B.M.O.Planet.
BRET's more tough, hard
nosed realistic work rate
fits into TYSONS aura WAY
WAY BETTER than HBKs
jumping bean & over
selling theater...
I can see BRET doing ALL
kinds of great mic work
Leading into this.
As in 1997 besides AUSTIN,
BRET was doing the best Interviews in the business..
ABSOLUTELY, The Babyface needed that final decision over HITMAN, being vindacated on a 15 month storyline w BRET.
But.... Like u said,
WE ALL GOT SCREWED BC
OF A PILLED UP, SELFISH,
UNPROFESSIONAL
DOUCHE, WHO After
Montreal: wrestled about 5
Matches on TV, No
showed a PPV as WWF
Champ, caused a riot in December that caused DANNY HODGE to be pelted w garbage at what was supposed to be a ceremony honoring the ledgend. Had fans starting 🔥 in ARKANSAS...
"No good scum, "
Couple things I find interesting, what if they had all come up with this idea together in order to free up the main event with fresh talent while Bret builds his stock in WCW before his eventual return? Another is the built in story line he would have had with the up and coming Kurt Angle that hadn't debuted yet. That could have easily facilitated Hart becoming a babyface and Kurt being a heel. So many missed opportunities like matches with Jericho, PPV matches with the Rock, tagging with Owen against the Hardys/E&C/Dudleys, and wrapping up his career around the time when guys like Cena and Orton were rookies.
Dude all great missed possibilities
To REALLY ask this question, you NEED to go back to when Vince cut costs to save money and cut the the women's division WITH Alundra Blaze as Champion. What IF he never cut the women's division? Alundra wouldn't have shown up on Nitro tossing the title in the trash THUS the Screwjob wouldn't have happened, Bret would have stayed.....
The catalyst for the Screwjob was Vince cutting costs that included the Women's division with Alundra still champion who then went to WCW with the title of which Vince was fine with letting Bret go but DIDN'T want him to show up vas WWF Champion in WCW. Therefore, Vince DID screw Bret at Survivor Series and Hebner knew, Shawn knew.
THINK about it....
It's funny because Vince pulled the same stunt years earlier with Flair and the Big Gold Belt. He was paranoid about people doing the same thing he already did. IMO, Bret had way too much integrity and respect for the business to do something so crappy.
There were so many other ways to get the belt off Bret that the screwjob was just unnecessary. He would have dropped it to someone he respected like Taker at SS. He was willing to drop it to Shawn the next night on raw. Vince knew for months that Bret was leaving, why not have him drop the belt before SS?
I never understood why wrestling promotions let wrestlers carry the belts around. They are essentially props, not something they actually won. They should probably be held backstage and handed out before the show or any promotional appearances. At the very least, Vince should have done this after Madusa dumped the Women's belt into the trash. This may have eased his mind about it happening again.
Ha ha, loved that intro talking to the text! :)
That 'Title Card' sure is bossy
Awesome video. Also thanks for the Lupe fiasco music in the background. 😎
The screwjob was that moment as a kid when one of my friends told me that this was real REAL like real life real and that's when the fantasy of believing in the wrestling story lines changed for mee......
Funny, my moment for that was Foley being thrown off the Cell. Because I knew wrestling was fake since birth, my Dad always told me. But when I saw Foley fly off, I knew there was no faking that. The Screwjob, I thought it was a work forever
Without the Montreal Screwjob, there would be no WWE today! Two Reasons: 1, Vince McMahon had fear is that if Bret Hart were to retain his title, he would have disrespected the same way Madusa did to the women's title. 2, it influenced Austin vs McMahon. When the people in Montreal jeered him, it came from the idea of becoming a character himself and thus feuding with Stone Cold Steve Austin. Without the screwjob, as well as the Austin 3:16 speech, there would have been no Attitude Era and therefore no WWE today.
I've cited this before. WCW wouldn't allow the WWF title on TV even if Bret and Bischoff wanted to. Plus even if they did, so what? After Medusa and Flair did it, their respective companies were just fine. Second, people forget that the McMahon character was a rip off of Bischoff's heel authority figure in WCW and heel McMahon also didn't debut until after WMXIV. McMahon didn't use the screwjob momentum to go heel. Also the Attitude Era was also a rip of ECW. Those were the real influences of the Attitude Era
I think with the Montreal Screwjob never happening, the pushes of the Rock and Austin would be questionable mainly on Shawn Michaels part. Bret was willing to put over talent, so I'm sure he wouldn't bury them, but we all know how Shawn was. So depending if Shawn still gets injured or not would be a main factor. I can still see The Rock and Austin getting big pushes an over with Bret around. Plus, Owen would of probably never died and gotten the The Game gimmick. That right there would of been interesting, another feud with Bret and Owen, but with Owen getting over. Triple H would of been the one out of the picture. A lot of people bitch about Roman Reigns and John Cena being pushed hard on us, but it was the same with Triple H. So if Triple H never gets over (or forced over), maybe it's Shane getting more of the control and say now in the WWE. Would certainly be interesting.
You do bring up a good point. But I think Undertaker would still regulate the douchebag into doing business
I love how he refers him to "douch bag" HA
You Sir, are great!
I think Dave is very generous with that epithet.
Well I wouldn't change anything.. Because the screwjob gave us the greatest heel of all time, Mr. Mcmohan who was just as important as Austin and Rock were in Attitude Era..
There's a great interview with Jim Ross where he discusses how so much money was left on table with Austin and Hart, how they weren't finished. Also, had Bret stayed with the WWF, we may have gotten what could have been the greatest match in history, Bret Hart vs Kurt Angle.
I talk about that all the time. The screwjob was such a stupid thing to happen
@@DaveKnowsWrestling Totally. Really makes you wonder about McMahon's thought processes, whether or not his "elevator goes to the top floor."
No, it stops at his wallet
@@DaveKnowsWrestling True enough. Cheers from Canada. Be safe and your channel has been a great distraction in these weird times.
There's the butterfly effect of what happens at Starcade just a couple weeks later
Yeah, there definitely is
I think it was a work. Vince became the biggest heel in the company. Bret went to WCW as the most talked
about wrestler at the time and as the uncrowned champion.
I did another video about that
Even though Vince's ego would've been too big to admit to it, he probably at least pondered this once HBK got hurt at the rumble.
Unless I'm wrong the screw job didn't need to happen couldn't Vince just had Hart drop the title to HBK, without letting Hart no he wouldn't honor his contract till after the fact? I was just thinking about that.
I think if the Montreal Screwjob wouldn't happen we might've got Shawn Michaels vs Steve Austin at Summer Slam
There's a good chance of that. Taker/Austin could have been saved for the following Mania
I like your passion but you're wrong. Without the screwjob, we wouldn't have had Mr. McMahon, the greatest heel in history which in turn ushered in the Attitude Era. Let's face it, Bret just wasn't cut for the Attitude Era's edgy style and preferred a family friendly product. The best possible outcome did occur when Bret was pushed out the door, all the while making Vince the perfect nemesis to Austin. P.S. Rock vs Austin was the greatest main event of all time.
Not sure I follow, wrong about what exactly? This is a 'What if...' video talking specifically about a hypothetical Wrestlemania Main Event. I wasn't talking about the McMahon/Austin rivalry or the Attitude Era. (which I am all about) And if you think Austin/Rock is the best main event ever, that's cool. I speculated that Bret/Austin for the title WOULD have been, but it never happened. So what actually is the best WM ME doesn't contradict the video. If you're trying to say that fans and the WWF benefited in the long run, that's fair to say, but that's NOT what I was arguing against.
I agree with some of this, but not necessarily all of it. McMahon still could have played up the Corporate Boss villain and been the nemesis to Austin; the real-life events of Montreal weren't necessary to that (but they were certainly fuel to the fire).
So, let's say Montreal was just another PPV. Austin still gets the belt at WM14 for sure and the Attitude Era can go on as it did. Having said that, I really struggle to picture Bret being any kind of impact player in the WWF in 1998. He was losing some of his heel lustre to HBK as DX formed (I even recall a promo where he told fans "spare me your cheers"). He could have had feuds with the up-and-coming Rock/Foley/Shamrock, I suppose, but what's his character? The only role I could really see him playing would be that of kind of a cranky old guy "Everything was better in my time", perhaps ala Bob Backlund in the mid 90's.
TheTraderGuy if Bret didn't leave WWF I'm pretty sure WM14 would've been Vince vs Bret Hart that match would've have been good
That Vince McMahon might of still came into play.. Stone Cold gave him his first stunner before the Montreal screw job.
Wza456 The Attitude Era Started Around WM 13
I know this is a what if video and all, but apparently there WAS a plan if the screwjob doesn't happen. According to Bret on the Michaels vs Hart rivalry DVD, WM 14 was supposed to have Hart vs HBK 2 or 3 (whichever one you look at) Another interesting note is Bruce Prichard has stated the screwjob didn't throw off the long term plan at all, as they had planned on Austin to win the title at mania for a while. I just wonder who would have carried the strap in against Austin if HBK and Hart are doing their own match at the event. Interesting to think about.
Exactly, that doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me. Taker was tied up with Kane as well. Plus, Bret never did the favors for Austin and their feud never wrapped up. Good that you brought it up though
Crazy to think how many critical events change had Montreal never happened.
Presuming Bret carries the title into WM to "pass the torch" of sorts to Austin, HBK likely does not have the casket match with Undertaker at the Royal Rumble thus never blows out his back. Without that injury, HBK never "slows down" in life and instead of becoming a more humbled person in a few years and have a second HOF run, it's possible he gets a ten bell salute.
The biggest caveat with a Hart/Austin main event is no Mike Tyson; his presence was the biggest difference maker at WM14.
With Bret staying WWE, his career lasts longer due to his brain not getting scrambled by Goldberg; imagine Bret Hart vs. Kurt Angle. Bret's presence may also mean Owen doesn't fall to his death. There are rumors that Owen was meant to take on "The Game" moniker, not HHH.
The thing is the reason Bret was going to WCW Vince and The WWF were BROKE WCW was destroying them,their ratings were down and house show sales were in the toilet. Vince needed to get out of the contract Bret had. If The Screw Job never happened there might be no WWE now. Without them WCW or ECW wrestling would suck now. ROH a show that isn't even on everyone's tv and GFW would be the 2 main companies now.
But just a couple of months later WWF entered its most successful time period EVER. And despite what the screwjob apologists say, it was NOT because of the screwjob. It was because of the popularity of Stone Cold Steve Austin. They would not have gone under as long as Austin was around
Yeah but Vince didn't know that. If Bret didn't go to WCW was my point.
Wrestlemania 14 main event probably would have been different. Maybe it would have been Austin vs Bret Hart. Either way its hard to believe Austin wouldn't be in the main event. He was already getting the loudest pops and selling the most merchandise before Bret left... Were also leaving out that if Bret never left then neither would have Bulldog and Jim Neidhart. The hart foundation would of still been together. I believe they would of broken up eventually and been another feud of Bret vs Owen again. Hell if Bret never left its a good possibility that Owen would of still been alive.
I think that's a good possibility with Owen too, but I don't think Bret and Owen would have feuded again. They might have though
1998: Bret vs Austin
2002: Austin vs Hogan (have Rock vs Hogan at SummerSlam or another PPV)
2014: Undertaker vs John Cena (if only we got this match in 2014 and the streak continued. Match would’ve been better than both matches that both men had that night)
Nope. Bret vs Austin at 13 was enough. Had it happened this way then we probably wouldn't have gotten Austin vs Michaels. Then we would probably be sitting around thinking of the dream match between Austin and Michaels that never happened at Wrestlemania. Hogan vs Austin at 18 is the best wrestlemania dream match that should've happened but didn't
Fair point
Shawn Michael wouldn't be injury
it would be nice if u have music in the background!!
The Veteran Oli Davis over at WrestleTalkTV gave me the same advice, I appreciate the input and will definitely get on that. Plus, if you're a Biggie fan, your musical taste is good by me. So thanks for the input and thanks for the view.
Vince never would've been the heel he became after Montreal. Austin vs McMahon wouldn't have happened.
Owen hart might still be alive if this never happened. Hart foundation would have still been around and Owen most likely wouldn't have done that blue blazer gimmick
You got that right
I'm not so sure that would've worked out for the better in the long run having Bret v stone cold at mania I mean yeah it would've been great to watch with the wwf title on the line but at the same notion I think the reason we got the huge boom in wrestling and the start of the attitude era was because of the star power of mike Tyson being the guest ref in the Shawn v Austin match. And because of Tyson being in it who was white hot at the time I mean everyone wanted him, that helped elevate wwf/wwe over the competition and without that match we might've gotten a completely different run. I mean yeah the attitude era would've still happened it was bound to happen but it would've came later and maybe Igor wwf/wwe it could've been too late. So I don't think Bret dropping the title to Austin is bad but he could've done it before mania and was willing to do just that. He just didn't want to do it at his hometown and rightfully so. It could've been a huge pop for Bret if he kept the title. And then like almost immediately drop it to Austin because he didn't want to drop to Shawn.
Whoa, whoa...don't let the hype for Tyson's Hall of Fame induction fool you, he was NOT white hot at the time. Tyson's prime was in the 80's. By then, he had already been convicted and served time. He gotten out and lost to Holyfield... twice. Also his boxing license was rescinded at the time of Wrestlemania. Celebrity involvement does not save Wrestling. Even if it did, Tyson's involvement could have happened with Bret in the main event. I also don't understand what you mean by your Bret dropping to Austin before Mania and his hometown argument.
Fadil Prelvukaj
Tyson was not white not in 1998 lol. Why do you think he did the guest appearance at WM14? Do you think he would have done that if he was white hot?
Seriously, thanks for the backup. I don't know if people are just trolling or if somehow events really get that distorted in people's minds.
Dave Knows Wrestling
I think a lot of people were not around in those days and are just going on what has been said online or on WWF programming since. The ones that were around in those days but believe this crazy stuff have prob gotten a little hazy over the years in regard to what happened back then
I agree that WWE , being the top place to work for, has done a great job of getting people to nod their heads at their version of the story. They've spun the event around for the younger generation and got the older generation to forget many facts. That's why I love the documentary and other provable evidence. I feel the screwjob apologists never have their facts straight in comparison to people like us
Undertaker & Shawn 1 immediately comes to mind as a non-main event that steals the show.
Owen may have still be alive if it werent for Montreal and probably would not have been Blue Blazer come 1999, I have always believed Vince brought back the Blue Blazer gimmick as a bit punishment and rib on Owen because...
1. He asked for his release after Montreal and didn't get his release
2. He wanted to show Owen just who was boss
It is something we can argue about till we are blue in the face and still find no answer everybody agrees on.
I reckon Vince was crapping himself at the thought of the World Title being trashed on TNT, it had happened with Madusa and he could not be certain Bret would not do the same.
On the other hand, I can understand Bret not lying down for HBK, as HBK once told Bret he would never lie down for him, which is disrespectful.
At the end of the day, we may not have had the Attitude Era if It weren't for Montreal, as it cemented Vince McMahons turn to super villain when he gave his 'Bret screwed Bret' promo
Possible, but the Blazer was allegedly in response for his refusal to do an angle with Jarrett and Debra, from my understanding
@@DaveKnowsWrestling Ah yes, I forgot about that, Thanks for reminding me, wasn't it something to do with Vince wanting Owen to have a Kayfabe affair with Debra, but Owens would not do it, having very strong family values? If Bret was there, there is every chance Owen may not have been put in that position in the first place.
It is all speculation though and without a deloreon we can't go back and change history.
Anyway, from one Dave to another, great video, keep up your good work mate, I love how you reply to every comment, no matter how old the video, always staying connected with your Subscribers
Michaels wouldn't have been injured if Bret stayed. He hurt his back against the undertaker in the royal rumble ppv on the casket. If Bret was champion, Michaels would have been in the royal rumble match and would have been healthy going in to, and after wrestlemania.
Flair vs. Hogan at Wrestlemania 8 would've topped EVERYTHING. Past, present, and future.
Yea I have to admit that is a good one. My reasoning for not agreeing is that I am very sure that it would not have pleased the technical fans as much. Also according to one report from Flair, him and Hogan did WWF house shows to test things out for Mania, but they didn't impress crowds, which is why they didn't do the match at WM8
Love this channel
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Bret had to leave cause they were giving the WWE a face lift , Bret never lost the belt and is still the one true and food final WWE champion to this day....
I know a lot of people say Bret needed to leave, but I still rather he got to do so paying off his feud with Austin
Bret went on record saying he wanted to lose the belt to Austin. WWF really started with the attitude after Bret snapped on raw before wm13. At that point WWE started to become a lot more aggressive. In matches and promos. It was also when MacMahon was shown to be the real boss and we all know where Rudy lead to.
Man, if Bret did stay, him and Austin would have feuded for years. One guy that hated the company and country for years of being screwed and the other just being the guy that didn't give a shit lol. And they were both touted as the toughest guys in WWF. Bret used to take amazing beatings as well as Austin, tho not as much as Bret. His selling was "Gold Jerry, gold I tell ya"
I think things would have been much better that way
If the Montreal screwjob never happened Shawn Michaels never would have became the WWF Champion and would have never fought the Undertaker at the Royal Rumble and had that injury
In my personal opinion,the GOATMME we will never see is CM PUNK v RANDY "MACHO MAN" SAVAGE!!I can only dream of the Vernacular barbs these two would toss at each other leading them SUMMER SLAM thru Royal Rumble and straight the heart of WRESTLEMANIA,huh??
Oooooh that would be a good one. Elbow drop vs Elbow drop, you know that has to happen
It can't cause Randy is dead but if it did you know Vince would idiotically put Cena vs Hogan as the closing match instead of Punk/Savage.
Sammy Lane seriously? Cena/Hogan would've been the bigger draw even if Punk/Savage was on the same card. Look at WM18 when you don't put the biggest draw on last.
There was a "what if it was reversed" where Bret screwed Shawn instead. Bret commented that he wouldn't never done business like that, whereas other WWE superstars thought the Attitude Era would've happened anyway, then HHH bluntly said "that would've never happened, we're not that stupid", implying Hart was ultra-gullible thinking he was leaving the arena with the belt that night, whereas Shawn would've put over Bret if Vince demanded it happen.
What if Hart left WWF and joined WCW while still holding the belt?
Nothing would have happened. As stated, WCW legal, as per Bischoff, would never allow him to show that belt at that time. Hart also didn't want to do that anyway
Let's just say the legal allowed this. What would happen?
Again, nothing. Bret didn't want to and even if he did... see Alundra Blayze, Ric Flair, Mike Awesome or ULTIMO DRAGON. Competitors appearing, holding or even defending their rivals championships is a quick shock, but ultimately it's not a big deal. There is no recognizable effect on business and most people kind of forget that it ever even happened
I think it was a setup and the Hitman was in on it.
I do wonder about that myself
the main event at mania 8 was hogan vs sid i think
People are forgetting that Austin wasn't even suppose to win at KOR96. It was actually suppose to be Triple H! If Triple H did win. . . what would have happened? What if!
I don't think it really mattered. Austin was going to get over eventually, no matter what. The guy was just so talented and fans responded to him. KotR wouldn't have made or broke his career.
Dave Knows Wrestling There is one scenario I have not seen written that is way outside the box, what if Austin doesn't go to Mania? Ok Ill try to be quick, in this version Bret isnt screwed and drops the belt.....To Undertaker. He keeps refusing to face his brother Kane but then Kane forces the issue by....wait for it.....eliminating Austin to win the Rumble, Now Taker has to face Kane and the match now happens at Mania with the title on the line. Now I know that there is evidence or such(bruce Pritchard i think) saying that the long term plan was to give Austin the belt. And that could have still occurred. Just delayed until the next ppv or even Summerslam if you want it at one of the big 4 for the exposure and rise of Austin 3:16. And also the casket match between taker and HBK can still happen at the rumble and shawn still gets injured but taker retains the belt and HBK can leave earlier to heal up all his injuries. Bret leaves as he wanted and The Big change is just a delay on Austin, in fact Mr. McMahon can still be born out of this as Austin can say he was screwed out the chance to take on Bret as Vince "forced" him out and thats why his head wasnt in the game at the Rumble so Kane eliminated him. Then Austin vs mcmahon could happen at mania and if Austin wins he gets a title shot anytime anywhere. OK so that wasnt quick, but its an idea.
BTW Tyson could still be involved as a bodyguard for Vince to hold off Austin
Hey that's not bad, I like that storyline. It would be cool if that was how Taker gets forced to face his own brother
If Bret didn't drop the belt to HBK at Survivor series, then HBK wouldn't have been in the Casket match at the Royal Rumble so he wouldn't have been injured. It's win win all around.
I agree with part of that statement
If Bret never lost the WWE Title at Survivor Series 97. Then HBK would have never had that casket match with the Undertaker at Royal Rumble 98 (where he had his back injury). So if HBK never got injured for those 4 years (from 98-02). Then, I am afraid maybe guys like the Rock and HHH may have just been mid carders. Hell, HBK still would have been the egotistical prick backstage. HBK also had bad drug issues as well (which could have killed him). There would not have been an attitude era if HBK was still an active wrestler in the years of 98-02. Not the attitude era that we knew of
That is a very solid point. I do feel that things like the Undertaker threatening him into dropping the belt to Austin at Mania might still remain as a reality check, making sure douchebag doesn't get too out of pocket. However, you're right, that is a very good point
Hmm. So here’s the thing: In the Bret and HBK interview with Jim Ross, Bret tells HBK that, according to Vince, they both were scheduled to work WM14 with each other. HBK was surprised to hear that. That was the ORIGINAL plan. Assuming this was the case, and it was Shawn vs. Bret for the title, I personally don’t think we would have had the Austin/Attitude era that dominated the late-90’s, and not to mention, won the Monday Night War against WCW...
I think the Montreal Screwjob is so incredibly pivotal to the ratings boom of wrestling and the inception of the Attitude Era. I love Bret, but I shudder to think what would have happened if Bret stayed on WWE’s roster given his political weight backstage. I don’t know if Austin or Rock’s careers would have had the chance to grow as it did if Bret unfortunately didn’t leave the company...
Well they were supposed to work WM 13 but someone refused.. Also, I don't think the Screwjob had anything to do with the ratings boost at all and I have another looooong video all about that
I will extend this olive branch. I don't know why, after Cornette gave his history lesson about double crossing, did Cornette and Vince not think about this historical solution to the same dilemma. Of course Russo was there too but he doesn't know shxt from shinola. Back when Hogan was getting his storm going Backlund didn't want to drop the title to him. I wouldn't have wanted to either. Hogan sucks and in my opinion has always sucks. Backlund just didn't like his style. Well the solution was to have Backlund drop the title to Iron Sheik. A man Backlund respected. Than Iron Sheik would drop it to Hogan. So why Vince or Cornette didn't think of this, is beyond me. The TV general manager, I think it was either Sgt Slaughter or Piper at the time could have came out stripped Shawn of his number one contendership or make the match a Triple Threat match. Utilizing somebody who Bret would drop it to. Then have Shawn win the belt. That would have cut the Gordian knot without having to pull the screwjob.
I agree with you wholeheartedly on proposing this as a solution. But part of me also thinks that no matter who the contender was, Bret was going to say the same thing. Never has there been a man who has taken holding a fictional title so seriously. Scott Hall says Bret’s own house is a shrine to himself. It’s likely he just didn’t want to lose the title at all and was making excuses.
Bret didn't wanna leave but Vince insisted that he does, from my understanding bret was alright with the pay he was getting. And don't forget he signed the 20 year contract.
Thank you, someone who gets it
Bret said that he was willing to drop the belt to Shamrock or Austin.But Vince wanted for Bret to drop it to his baby boy Shawn.I love how Shawn loves to say he is a born again christian.But it's like Jim Cornette says after they see no one likes them they all of a sudden find god.
Shane Helms has some great things to say about shawn michaels on that subject as well
Sami Fan I kept hearing Mick Foley in that too.
Well Shawn created DX which paved the way for the attitude era. So you can blast his personality and his antics all you want, he's the guy who saved WWE in the end. And don't say to me that Shawn didn't create attitude era and that it was Austin's 3:16 promo...dont forget it was because of HBK that Austin won that KOTR in the first place (Triple H was supposed to win it but didnt because of the MSG incident in '96).
America vs. Canada with Austin and Bret hart would have been perfect.
Yeah it would
Wouldn't that mean Shawn Michaels would have never gotten injured in 97 either so he would never would have had to take five years off
Yes that might not have happened
Yesss! Someone agrees with me on Bret getting screwed
Anyone with any common sense agrees. Don't worry, not everyone has been brainwashed by the McMahon machine
I believe wholeheartedly it was a work. Where do you go after kayfabe is exposed? There has to be something left to keep the interest of fans after the mystery is gone. I doubt anyone ever thought it was completely real, but the details were still a mystery. Would you want to watch David Copperfield make an airplane vanish if he showed you how he was going to do it first? Sure, possibly the first time just to watch for the slight of hand, but would you continue to watch it over and over? It’s the same thing. They NEEDED to interject some reality back into the act. And I believe that’s why they still protect this secret. I would do the same.
I think it's interesting that you believe David Copperfield is more successful than Wrestling sans kayfabe
Dave Knows Wrestling I didn’t say he was more successful. I apologize if I came across that way. Maybe it’s a bad analogy. The point is, wrestling and magic are both forms of illusion. Wrestling is and always was a way to convince the audience that two people are competing in hand to hand combat, and that there’s a winner and a loser. The secret that this is all scripted was a very heavily protected secret until the 90s. My point is, whenever you expose this secret, where do you go from there? I’m sure most people had the idea that it wasn’t real, but didn’t know the inner workings until the day of the internet. I’d say there’s every chance in the world that Bret and Vince came together to create one final illusion as kayfabe became known to the masses. After all, it’s what they do.
I do agree there is a good chance that the screwjob was Bret and Vince's last gift to the kayfabe world. But the idea that exposing the business is somehow bad is financially unsound. We all know movies are fake. We all get insight as to how they make films. But yet it's the biggest export America has and is one of the most successful industries there is. I understand that traditionalist don't want to let go, but there is no mathematical reason not to. If you simply want to maintain that magic and wrestling have an intangible quality that you enjoy better when it's not exposed, then that's fine, but not supported financially. Yes, magic and wrestling are about illusions, but times demand that things must and always do change. Magic's appeal to mainstream audiences is dwindling. WWE since openly admitting that wrestling was predetermined has grown to being a global phenomenon. One is more candid about how their tricks work and the other is more open about it. Interesting correlation is all I'm saying.
What if the screwjob happened on the Raw after Survivor Series?
That is an AMAZING question. I admit that it will lighten the load. I've gone on and on about what I think and continue to cite the Wrestling with Shadows documentary. Ultimately, it's still a big violation of trust. But great question. What do you think?
yup I agree.. and I like how you used the WWF Warzone challenge to show the roster haha.
Well I love Bret hart but things turned out great for wwf after his departure and u cant deny that
No, I'm not denying that. The comments on this video confuse me. This is a hypothetical on if it never happened, but most people want to voice their opinion on the screwjob itself. Next, thinking that the screwjob was a dishonest and bad thing doesn't make you some sort of Attitude Era denier. The success of WWF after the screwjob is unrelated to the screwjob. Regardless to how WWE wants to spin it. Bottom Line (pun intended) Stone Cold Steve Austin was one of the biggest money draws in wrestling history. WWF's success is mostly a result from them having the hottest star at the time. Not because they lied and screwed over a guy who turned down a multi-million dollar contract to stay loyal to their company, only for them to break their contract with him instead. (which has been documented) The Bulls won because they had Michael Jordan. The Yankees won because they had Mickey Mantle. If you found out about some shady business deal that both teams did prior to both those athletes being there, you wouldn't say the deal is justified because they had success afterwards
I couldn't have said it better. Kudos
Thank you and kudos to you
You should do one were the million dollar man never getting the world title ethier wwe or nwa title please
The screwjob yes lead to many great things for WWE personally, like the attitude era, austin era, creation of the Mr. McMahon character, etc... but it literally destroyed the lives of the Hart family. Owen maybe never would have died, Bret wouldn't have been kicked in the head by Goldberg and have his career ended and Bret would have stayed in WWF where it was home and retired like he wanted and all would have been fine. Bret damn sure never should have left for WCW and Vince had no right fucking over Bret and stealing his title from him in a screwjob and causing 18 years of hatred between Hart and McMahon and Hart and Michaels. Its not like Vince ultimately didn't own the title anyways, just have Reggie Parks make another one if Bret actually refused to give theirs back. Also showed Vince had no trust for Bret, thinking he was gonna toss the title in the trash like Medusa was told to do by Bischoff. Knowing Bischoff and the way he was back then, wouldn't put it past him to suggest that to Bret... but Bret wouldn't have done it, as that would be symbolic of throwing his entire WWF career, his times as champion, everything in the trash... and Bret respected the WWF and the title and no way would he have done that.
I largely agree with what you said. Only I disagree that it let to the Attitude Era. Austin was already on his way to the top and already had the character. The Mr. McMahon character didn't follow the screwjob, this was McMahon's wrestling character that he already wanted from when he wanted to be a wrestler and a rip off of what Bischoff was doing in the NWO.
The attitude era happened because of the Montreal screw job. So actually the way it happened was the best possible outcome.
I disagree. Austin's KotR speech, Bret's heel turn, the Nation, DX, "Pillman's Got a Gun," Vince Russo, etc. they were all already in place before the screwjob. Not to mention WCW and the NWO, along with ECW and the WWF's desire to compete with their formula which skewed towards an older demographic. I think the Attitude Era happens regardless.
I think the montreal screw job was bs but bret losing in canada was bull being canadian i would have loved if he had lost the title but in calgary of all places would have been better sort like a farwell to wwf and the passing of the torch.
Goldberg's Kick Shorten Bret's Career.
First things first Dave, I could name plenty of times that the best match of the card at WrestleMania wasn't the Main Event: WrestleMania 21: Michaels vs. Angle was better than Batista vs. Triple H (truthfully, the undercard that wasn't the Women's, WWE and World title matches as well as the Sumo Match were better )
2000: Triangle Ladder Match: Hardy's vs. Edge & Christian vs. The Dudley Boyz was better than The Fatal 4 Way Elimination Match
WMIX: Tantaka vs. Michaels better than Hogan vs.Yokozuna (truthfully, Yokozuna vs. Hart at WrestleMania IX wasn't a bad match, it was actually a good match ti watch)
WMVII: Savage vs. Warrior (Yes, I mean it)
WMVIII: Savage vs. Flair
WMX: Ramon vs. Michaels & Bret vs. Owen was better than Hart vs. Yokozuna
WMXI: Michaels vs. Diesel was better than Taylor vs. Bigelow
WMIII: Savage vs. Steamboat was better than Hogan vs. Andre
WM25: Michaels vs. Taker was better than Orton vs. Triple H
WMXXVII: Taker vs. Triple H was better than Cena vs Miz
WM29: Punk vs. Taker was better than Cena vs. Rock II
WM32: Lynch vs. Banks vs. Flair was better than Reigns vs. Triple H
WM33: Styles vs. McMahon was better than Reigns vs. Taker
It would've made sense to have Hart vs. Austin at WrestleMania XIV. Granted, Austin vs. The Hart Foundation was considered the best rivalry of 1997. They could've had Hart vs. Taker at the Rumble, still had the situation with Kane interfering after Taker conquered the Hart Foundation, still could've had that. Michaels recovery would've started sooner and it would've been Hunter pulling the trigger early on the D-X group, but that might be tough with Pac returning right after WMXIV. But all in all, Hart/Austin is a wonderful rivalry and it would've been a wonderful full circle story that we needed to see since Austin hasn't got the best against Hart in a big match environment that wasn't the Royal Rumble. He lost at Survivor Series '96, In Your House 13: Final Four, WrestleMania 13 & In Your House 16: Canadian Stampede. It would've felt more rewarding than a win against Michaels in the long haul.
It's Sad when Bret was a Mid Carder in WCW.
1) Bret WAS willing to drop the belt to any wrestler except douch bag HBK.
2) Bret offered to drop the belt next night on Raw (which would've bring a shock value to Raw over Nitro)
3) Bret was not a backstage politics guy like Kliq. He was kinda company man.
4) WM 13 rematch with different landscape (maybe with Bret turning face at end of the show) would've been great storyline wise.
5) Vince could've pull off the Mr.McMahon gimmick post WM 14, given the fact that Austin had already started to taking jibe at him previously.
Screwjob was not a neccesity to kick start the Attitude era. I mean Austin was already over as the new anti-hero of this generation.
this debate just goes on....
I agree completely with you.. I don't know why there is any one on the other side of this issue
Bret Hart should've never went to WCW. He could've went to Japan or just semi retired like Shawn Micheals.
In retrospect.. absolutely.. although can't blame him for $9 mil
I believe if the screwjob did not happen we would have also seen bret hart vs the rock.
Hey that's a good point and I would have liked to have seen that match myself
Shawn Micheals with Degeneration X was a huge movement in the WWF...but could it have happened if HBK lost? The Montreal ScrewJob drove story lines either way. Later on, DX drove HHH up the line. Would that have happened in the WWE without DX?
That might sound sarcastic, but im curious. Did HBK's win at the Survivor Series accidentally define the current WWE? Would HHH be the superstar he is without the original Degeneration X? DX took Hunter Hearst Helmsley to the game, there's a whole lot of story in between but, I'm not sure it would have happened if not for that Survivor Series.
I appreciate your delivery on your insight. I do disagree though. dx was already what they were without Survivor Series. Being established is what got them the main event in the first place. Plus, the screwjob not happening, doesn't mean dx had to lose. The schmoz ending that was planned would not have hurt anyone's momentum. You're right, it's not a black or white issue, there are many options other than screwjob or bust.
The win itself, I do not see it as a defining the era. I tend to notice that people who defend the screwjob don't seem to value the power of stars in and of themselves as much as I do. The Attitude Era, as I see it, was primarily defined by Stone Cold Steve Austin. dx as well, yes. The Rock, yes. Foley as well and more. To me, back then, the internet wrestling community was dirt sheets and nowhere near as populated as it is now. Smarks were less abundant. I believe, the majority of the fans at the time, just liked Austin because of his persona, not because of the screwjob like some claim. There were more non-traditional wrestling fans at the time, jumping on the trend and not caring about the screwjob one way or the other. dx's popularity was the same to me. They were WWF's second attempt at copying the formula of the NWO and ultimately the more successful one. They were popular because they were anti-authority, full of sexual innuendos and funny.
Ask for hunter's momentum, sure, he did have his feud with Owen, but remember, he was injured shortly there after. The heat of the screwjob was mostly wasted on hhh. I also think, in my opinion, that people tend to play up the momentum of the screwjob as being more than it was at the time. hhh would still have been the backstage politicing, boss's daughter marrying, opportunist that he is and would have injected himself into a power position anyway. And IF he actually didn't become a star without the screwjob, then I would be just fine with that outcome too.
I think you missed my point. I think that Survivor Series 97' was a platform for HBK/WWF and things would be different afterwards. You said, and I agree, it could have been Hart and Austin at Wrestlemania 14 but it wasn't. It was Austin vs Micheals Ft Mike Tyson (which was a big deal at the time.) That period in between sort of set up the Attitude era. It (mostly) began with Austin beating Micheals, but it was fueled by the ruckus in between. I dont think DX would have been what they were if Bret won at Survivor Series and I dont think the WWF would have been the same without that time between Survivor Series 97 and Wrestlemania 14 being what it was.
HHH was a minor player before hand but after re-branding DX, then "invading" WCW, he helped re-issue WWF. I'm not sure that would have happened if Wrestlemania 14 didn't play out the way it did. Everything changed after The Montreal Screwjob. I don't think the WWE would be the same without the stories that came as a result of it.
Okay, let me try again. Did the stories between those 5 months create something specific? Yes. But did it create the Attitude Era? I say no. If you are saying without the screwjob we would have gotten a slightly different Attitude Era, sure, I can agree to that. Things would be different of course, but I don't think much different and I cannot conclude that it birthed the Attitude Era nor can I even say that it was important to it.
As for Tyson's involvement, Ken Shamrock officiated Bret/Austin at WM 13. He was needed to control the chaos in story. The same logic was used for Tyson. So Tyson still enters the main event with Bret/Austin if the screwjob never happens. However, I do not see Tyson as a big deal at this time at all. It has previously been discussed here. Either way, the Tyson deal doesn't necessitate the screwjob.
In terms of the ruckus. Again, that happens anyway just with different players. Shamrock, the "real" fighter was brought in because Austin matches were so wild they needed enforcers. Austin's feud with Bret is just as physical and just as Attitude without hbk. This was how they were already building Austin, the screwjob didn't create that.
Also, dx would have needed other storylines during this time, yes, but they still would have been as popular. The title win didn't get them over as far as I'm concerned. Remember, without the screwjob Rick Rude remains with them, which doesn't hurt their popularity. Their feud with Slaughter had already begun, so that still follows through in December, without the screwjob. Their feud with the Hart Foundation already started before the screwjob as well. hunter's feuds going into mania happen regardless. hbk already had heat with Undertaker stemming from before November as well. Things would be slightly different, but how different would it be? Maybe they would have been slightly less popular, but I don't even think so, just because so much of what they did was already in place.
My point for wrestler popularity, was that Austin would have shot through the roof no matter what, hbk was just the guy at the time, keeping it warm for Austin. As mentioned in the video, Austin never got his win over Bret and he still became Stone Cold Steve Austin. If a win over Bret for the title is so important, how come Austin didn't require it?
And I mentioned other wrestlers because of how they shaped the Attitude Era. Undertaker and Kane still happened, unaffected by the screwjob. The Rock would still have been the charismatic guy that he was. Foley would still be crazy. I mentioned them because of how their star power is what made the Attitude Era, which is not dependent of the screwjob. The bulk of the Attitude Era still remains. The majority remains.
I've been avoiding this video because as a Hitman fanatic, I'm sick of hearing people bash him. You're absolutely right here- Bret himself said the problem was SHAWN. he was willing to drop the title to anyone else- Raw was in Ottawa the next night, and he had suggested dropping the title to Austin there- bigger audience, title change on free TV. The Screwjob could so easily have been avoided. I know HBK successfully convinced the "WWE Universe" that he was a changed man, but countless shoots with numerous men and women tell a vastly different story. Either way, his political manipulations and the "Kliq" BS only served to hold down numerous men who could have been legit players in the main event scene. (Paging Chris Candido!!lol
I'm just rambling. But great video as always, Dave! 🤘🤘
You sure know how to get on my good side
Dave Knows Wrestling what can I say? I'm a Ray of frickin' sunshine!!😂😂
what a burn with that Chris Candido shot! lol RIP (You are not right for that!)
Jenna Leigh's Beauty Slam supposively Shawn and his kliq even tried to hold back the rock when he was rocky mavia. That's why they were bad for business. The kliq was all great talent, but in order to have good business everyone needs to get over but just the kliq. Scot hall always cries about Bret not making enough money and as the number two baby face he wanted more money. All I can say is razor should have done what he needed to get more over than Bret so he could make more money. If everyone on the card is over than you can sell more tickets at higher prices. Guys like Shawn and razor only thought about themselves and not about what was good for business.
Dan Melvin The Kliq was bad for business? The NWO faction was created by members of the Kliq. So was DX. So how was The Kliq bad for business? Shawn himself (Kliq member) is responsible for the formation of DX which created the Attitude Era...So Kliq was responsible for a number of things in pro wrestling.
I think it's time to move on from the Screwjob. Bret's 20+ year career shouldn't be defined by one event. He's made his peace with Vince and Shawn, and I think fans should do the same.
That being said, you do bring up some great points. Bret vs Austin was a money match and Austin had way more history with him than Shawn. Plus, Bret was a huge fan of Austin and would have worked his ass off for him.
Afterwards Bret probably would have started slowing down his career, already being 40. Working part time, he could have slipped into the main event inbetween working with younger guys to get them over. How great would things have been with Bret working feuds with Angle, Jericho, Rock, Mick Foley, etc?
Who knows how things would have continued to be between Bret and Shawn. Triple H was also coming up around that time and his career probably would have been impacted had Bret stayed.
Well, if the screwjob never happened, then I would things may have took a new different turn - Sure, Bret Hart would still go to WCW but respectively...And there would have been no exodus of WWF wrestlers who would all leave in protest, some would come back by obligation, but those who were able to leave went to WCW themselves.I think that;s what would have happened, if Bret would have left WWF on good terms and no screwjob
I think things would have been more interesting if everyone was on good terms when they left
Andre passed the torch to Hogan at WrestleMania 3, Steamboat vs Savage was the best match that night.
Ok, hear me out... say the plan, as previously discussed, was Shawn beating Bret at Wrestlemania XII (which happened), and the plan was for a rematch at Wrestlemania 13. Bret was to avenge his loss and still turn heel... what if the main event for Wrestlemania XIV was Bret vs. Shawn, the final chapter, and you delay Stone Cold's ascension to the top to a later date. Like Summer Slam or The Raging Climax of Wrestlemania XV in Philadelphia. I heard this on the Bret vs. Shawn DVD, and it may be a little far-fetched that it would be delayed that long, but it's viable considering Vince's style of booking and how much he loved and favored those 2 guys.
That would be a terrible idea. Absolutely horrid. WWE was struggling financially. So delay the biggest draw of all time with Austin just so you can deliver a repeat Wrestlemania main event that didn't draw so well the first time?
@DaveKnowsWrestling listen I agree with you on that, but putting myself in Vince's position, the term of "best for business" was and alot of ways still cliché that given the booking history and philosophy it wasn't always the case. Austin was a money draw, but given the timing, I personally don't think that anyone would have predicted Austin's rise in popularity and as a box office/merchandise cash cow. And just consider the amount of money they could still make if they played "The Hitman" a heel in America and face everywhere else angle alittle longer. Won't be the same as Austin's but it could have been given the time.
I think it's funny you're saying Vince would have made that decision when he actually didn't in real life. And Austin 3:16 shirts had been selling like crazy for over year by that point. There was indication that Austin was the guy, and only an idiot would have delayed his push any further. Furthermore, as much as I like him, Bret could never in any way or with any amount of time, especially as a heel, draw anywhere close to Austin.
@DaveKnowsWrestling that's a messed up way of looking at it. I am going off of your theory, "What if the Montreal Screw job never happened?" Well, my theory would be that Vince would never have dishonored his commitment to Bret on the 20-year contract. Therefore, the screw job would really be unnecessary to perform, and again, that is if Shawn never "lost his smile" because, according to Bret, that was the idea... he and Shawn at 13, which then Bret and Austin would not have happened at 13, and Austin's rise would not have eclipsed another plateau at that point, but Bret still would complete his heel turn. And perhaps they could give Shawn some much needed sympathy (because the loss of smile doesn't happen in this theory), and you could book him as the strong returning USA baby face. Also, please understand that these are, of course, hypothetical. You could also have Bret and Shawn have their 3rd rubber match at Royal Rumble, and because Bret and Shawn would have headlined 13, The Undertaker vs. SID title match main event would not have happened, and neither was there a need for Summer Slam 97 "Hart & Soul."
BTW... I appreciate your videos and commentary. Binge, watch your videos all the time. Keep up the great work!
Austin 3:16 shirts were selling since the 96 KotR. He was turned at WM13 because of it. And again, WWE was in bad shape then. You saw that michaels couldn't draw, and Austin was hot as a pistol. It would be a fool's errand as a business to delay Austin in any way. Especially if you're doing to keep someone in the title picture who you already know can't carry the company. And for a match on your biggest show of the year that you've already done and couldn't draw. You might as well go and hand Bischoff the keys
Everything that happened during the Attitude Era was meant to happen
How philosophical
Austin VS Bret man That would be 6 stars
I know I'm very late to the party, but so much would've changed had the screwjob not happened. It's still possible Taker VS. Shawn could've still happened but without the title, in story you could have just said since their Hell in a Cell had a screw finish, you could have Taker still go after Shawn while refusing to fight Kane, then have the match made. You can still have Kane turn on Taker there too, there's just not as much behind it.
As for Bret, if he stayed in the company, he could've had so many great matches from all the new talent that was on their way. Had he left, I think him dropping it to Austin at Mania is the best option and closes the book on that fued too, and by then if Bret wanted to change his mind he could, because if Taker VS. Shawn still happens, then you still have Shawn get hurt, and Bret just might stay once he knows Shawn is leaving.
In the end there's so many ways this could have gone, and there were so many better ways things could have been handled. The rabbit hole of what could have happened had the screwjob never happened, is so great that you could make a Two hour video and still not cover all possibilities.
shame, they killed his brother, stole his title and chose an unprofessional douche over him. He gave his all to that company too.
I very much agree with that
bret should of stayed in wwe and retired at wrestlemania 20 and have his last match agaisnt kurt angle at wm20
Consequently though, we wouldn’t have the Mr. McMahon character. That would beg the question as to what type of storylines going forward would follow without the Montreal Screw Job. 😐
I have another video stating why that conclusion is false
@@DaveKnowsWrestling Can you copy and paste the link?
ruclips.net/video/Rf-c4WGd_WU/видео.html
@@DaveKnowsWrestling Very insightful. I never saw it that way. 😏 Do you have a video on what if Austin didn’t turn heel at Wrestlemania 17?
Thank you, glad you could get something out of it. And no I do not have that video
I wonder what would've happened if Vince somehow was able to keep Bret but let Shawn go instead? I mean, I keep hearing stories about how much of a pain in the ass Shawn was back then so I wonder what if Shawn left but Bret stayed?
The world would have been better for it. Bischoff said he never wanted to deal with shawn, so he would have just gone away
Damn XD It would’ve been awesome to see Bret vs Kurt or Chris Benoit hell have an Austin bs Bret rematch. However would Mike Tyson be part of that? I mean, would he join the Hart foundation? Would Bret get knocked out by Mike Tyson at Mania? Or would he cry about the fast count finish?
Great avideo
Thank you!
What about Austin vs. Hogan as the best mania main event ever?
Not bad, but I think the wrestling would be better for Bret and Austin
Vince would still be a commentator
That's an interesting possibility
It doesn't matter if Shawn acted like a butthole. When you're on the way to another company, you do the "job" on the way out. LOTS of wrestlers have done it, and after Shawn's victory, Bret and The Foundation could have beat him up and chased DX back to the dressing room! Bret was just being unprofessional
BTW money was just one issue, Vince was gradually moving the WWE into edgier programming and I think he didn't want to deal with any of Hart's prudishness! If he objected to Shawn's "male stripper" character....
Finally, Shawn was still in decent shape until Hell In Cell and falling to a table from the cage top and later in another match, smashing his lower back on the edge of one of The Undertaker's caskets!
Bret did not deserve to get screwed
As awesome it would’ve been. Michaels and Bret feud was hotter at the time and michaels didn’t get injured until the royal rumble after survivor series where taker back body dropped him over the rope and hit the casket. Bret wanted to work part time anyways. Then we wouldn’t of gotten McMahon austin feud and stuff might’ve gotten stale cuz they were allowed to elevate mankind, the rock, triple h, in the next coming years.
I made another video addressing much of your concerns here
What If Shawn Michaels never gets hurt?
There's a good question
sgko88 if HBK never got hurt. HHH nor the Rock would have been big main event stars
May have gotten that much more desired wm 13 rematch
Seriously.. much more desired for sure
ok, first of all, the montreal screw job was a mistake, there are a lot of ways they could have handled it better. However, the people who think it wasnt wrong have an option that is just as valid as yours and just cause you make videos dose not give you any right to say some one elses option is wrong.
In terms of having "the right" I am sure you are using it as a figure of speech, but I definitely do have "the right" to say what I think in this case. Next, I think you meant opinion, not option. Finally, you don't find it a bit hypocritical that you're telling me what I can say