You deserve more subs but sadly the community is pretty dead , I grew up with spellforce 1 and 2 and it’s sad to see them forgotten by the majority of people
We will never forget - still playing it today! Also it was good to see the Steam version received an update too! Hope that as SpellForce 3 will continue, maybe they won't abandon SpellForce 1 and polish it a bit further (the 1.61 version still has some bugs that could be fixed). Maybe one day we will receive a remastered or definitive edition just as GTA did.
Very nice video! Still, some weird things: Why Ereon gave the book only on second loop? And only to a single Rohen? He could have given it to both, right? Why in the opening, both Rohens fight over a book? Old Rohen could have just surrender it, after all his goal was to make young one read it? In fact, why he appeared the last moment before the convocation? Young Rohen greets him, meaning they already crossed paths... so why did old Rohen waited until point of no return to try and talk to him, and then fight? Also, why he didn't warned other circle mages? He had the book written by a guardian, quite solid proof! Weird. And finally, why Rohen changes so much after reading? Ok, convocation is a scam, but how did that affect his motivation and lust for power? As a last surviving circle mage, he could have ruled the world unchallenged, even without the ultra-power he craved. Instead, he just goes 180° on his quest for dominance and turns into a selfless hero.. Anyway, great video! Watching your videos inspired me to once again replay the first game, so cheers!
I think that Rohen's aging is just a design choice to make him more recognizable. It's easier to understand the loop if you can relate to the age of a character. Sometimes even ,,old'' people are considered wiser because they have more experiences and understand more things, thus it could be that the Rohen is older because he be seen as the wiser one. I don't really catch the ,,i don't want to use archfire anymore" idea.
Ahh that loop cinematic was so cool, my mind was blown trying to understand what happened! just got all the spellforce games for like 20 bucks on steam 5 min ago, ready to go all the way to sf 3, never finished the phoenix tho that'll be my first goal before hitting sf2 wish me luck!
Just finished the game, i was so confused especially because of the sudden aging or Rohenat the end. I have a question, does the loop breaks in any of the sequel games?
No, the sequel games (bow, sotp shadow wars and Dragon storm) are all based on the assumption that the final loop continues indefinitely and without changes
I was thinking, have you perhaps considered covering who the Phoenix Bearer really is? As in like why is that person the one Rohen considers the best 'for the job' etc. I know some people speculated it could have been Tahar who I don't think has a confirmed gender but while I know your view on the prequel's events i'd love to hear your thoughts on that
Thing about Tahar is, they die off-screen between base SF3 and SF3SH, but its also never explained, why did the Rune not bring Tahar back, so it's an interesting idea, Tahar asleep in the Rune for like 550 years. And as he said before, any idea you like from SF3, thats not contradicting anything, might as well be true.
Idk just completed the first campaign. All i got here was that there is a time loop and young rohen kills old rohen and old rohen summons you or something and then gets trapped by young rohen and this version becomes old rohen again ? Why do 2 rohen exist at the same time ? Does one version stay then in the timeline ?
So the events during the time loop are not changing anymore to this point right? And this is the reason why the timeline stays stable and the people keep existing in the timeline we played? Even when Rohen was sucessful in travelling back in time? I am still a bit confused. :D
@@CalvinWolff-b9x the loop pretty much got set up to a point where it always identically repeats for the sake of the story being able to continue as is. A way of thinking about it is that you could imagine there is no loop anymore at this point. There is, but since it's identical it doesn't change or impact anything with the timeline anymore.
It seemed to me that the main problem with the arch-fire was that even once I understood its deleterious effects, it was almost impossible to give it up. Like a spice. If this needle could be so easily abandoned, then the makers should have preserved their civilization instead of degenerating into humans, dwarves, and elves.
Great explanation. Just still trying to figure out, if a rituel was needed to awoke the elements and start the convocation? Or the elements would awake anyway on Convocation day without a rituel? If a rituel was needed, who made them while both of them fighting each other? I guess I still couldn't understand the running of convocation thing clearly :P Anyways, good job!
What I don't get, is that rohen knows how he is going to die, right? Then why doesn't he change his fate? Why doesn't he avoid falling into the trap that rohen sets up for himself? Also, before the dark rohen enters the time portal, why doesn't the phoenix bearer go after him to try and stop him? And shouldn't there be two phoenix stones now?
@@Wormic Thats a fast reply. But as to what you said, going on a time loop is also not ideal. It's like replaying the whole game over and over and over again, forever. Nothing would change. I think it would be better for rohen to just accept that he fucked up big time, and take responsibility for his actions. To change his fate, and the fate of others.
@@Little-Buster You can't change your fate if you're dead since the Og timeline has the Convocation happens, the elements return, and everyone's dead. If anything, the current game is the "changed fate" since everyone is still alive. Then again, "changing your fate" is an inherently silly idea since you can't change something you have no idea about and that's just the first reason why
As my YT name might imply I actually prefer not to have my real name mentioned anywhere on public websites :) I remember I wrote you because it seemed like there was this Idea out there that there are several different timelines after SotP even though the only other one is, as Rohen explained, completely dead. Been waiting 8 months for this, and it was worth it.
Does this mean they are creating a virtually endless amount of new realities as it was explained in SP3 (Even though the story of SP3 could be considered non-cannon, the realities theory there could explain this as well).
@@Wormic So you think that when Rohen enters the portal his reality, the one after convocation simply ceases to exist? I do not think so considering there are games that continue the story on after the pointo of him returning to the past if I am not mistaken. Otherwise him entering the time portal would completely nulifie the existence of the "future timeline" he leaves behind.
@@Wormic Well, apart from the spare two timelines that are part of the setup, where, respectively, Rohen #1 destroys most of what's left of Eo to power his portal, and where Rohen #2 is the first Rohen to obtain the Phoenix stone, with the slight differences you mentioned - so a total of three alternate realities, I think? Good video.
@@cpugwash7085 Hey, you are right that there are 3 different timeloops, Wormic when through them all nicely . but the second and the third end in the exact same way. With the hero thinking she killed rohen and taking the phoenix with her. In the second timeline she did kill him with the trapped chest, but in the third(Edit: and everytime after) he committed suicide with the chest to enforce the loop and create a future. That leaves the first loop, which is the only other loop thats very different. Rohen collects all the Godstones and the world basically breaks apart, the elements take back over etc. This timeline just stops and has no future. So there are 3 different loops but only one future. Edit2: Sadly the english translation is not as good as the original(german), but in the german version Rohen makes it very clear that he knows whats about to happen: ruclips.net/video/YYkAqEBf5TU/видео.html
@@DoriKl Any life ceases to exist, but timeline doesn't end in the original. However, this time travel most likely uses a single world model, meaning changes in the past rewrite old timelines.
What I don´t get for example is why only the first Rohan didn´t take part in the Convocation while all the following ones seem to be ready without old Rohen disturbance. I just guess they accepted the plotholes for the storytelling :)
@@Wormic Thanks for the quick response. In that case, why would old Rohan even have to interfere with his younger self anyways? Assuming things turn out to be the same with every loop. Because if he really wanted to stop his younger self then why didn´t he go there earlier, as his younger self already seems to know him. Or tries to convince all the circle mages right from the start, I mean he has this book to proof it at this point. Or he may even build an army of himselfs by extending his live more and more with the allfire until he has enough selfs to tame it :)
@@Wormic Yeah you are right the elements and not the archfire. I think I just don´t get how it is possible that he couldn´t establish even the smallest connection with his younger self in a positive way. He could literally write the future days on a parchment seal it and hand it to him and be like: "Hey look, I know you don´t believe me. I return in like 48 hours and I guarantee you that I predicted them perfectly" or something like that. Not the first or even the second one. But the second old Rohen to the third young Rohen for example. "This Rohen now knows that his younger self will always keep trying to go back to win the whole thing, but there's no guarantee that Ereon will always give him this book, so he devises a plan where the younger Rohen always gets the book and the loop continues." - Or he could leave the old book at a place where he knows that his younger self would hide or stay for longer, maybe even with a little letter :) As for the Rohan army - at some point (if they manage to convince their younger selfs next in line over and over again) - they could very well slaughter the circle and wouldn´t have to negotiate with them :)
@@Wormic Yes everyone makes mistakes, but Rohen seems to keep making the same ones and keeps on to them even tho he would be the key to pass down information over the generations to break the cycle. (Sounds a bit like good old Vaas in that context). The Rohen army is a quiet similar point I think, because if the Rohens don´t intervene there will be an unlimited amount of worlds (or dimensions, I don´t know what would fit better in that context) to suffer, other then stopping it at one point (even if it would be with a blast to slaughter the already power blinded circle). I don´t know how effective this would be in the Spellforce lore but especially an army of ice based mages do sound like the perfect counter to a ritual that needs to be timed on point.
@@Wormic I meant it a bit less as a one time decision - I would completely understand that. If you can´t foresee the outcome you have to go with the tete-system (trial-error-trial-exit)(the first two steps can be unlimited -1). It´s just the repetition that sounds strange. But that seems to be a common problem of these ultra intelligent, ultra powerful and long living mages no matter the franchise. They somehow loose there view on the big picture out of nowhere. Otherwise they would be too overpowered anyways :)
@@naberiusxielarian3905 I think it's mostly 2 things: self-penance and the true nature of fate. The former is because of all the nasty things he did and so as a sacrifice he puts himself in a loop to endure the future where the alternative is everybody DED so don't rock the boat to not make more problems. The latter is what fate always was: you have no idea what it is until you're in in but when it happens you can't change it anymore since it in the past. Perhaps the gods may have a peak but even then, its but a guess. Fate is unchangeable. Always was, always will be. No man knows his fate or that of another. Thinking otherwise has always been pure copium. Deal the cards you've been dealt and play the best game you can. Save yourself the wasted effort of disappointment That and Ereon probably knows of the loop so unless he gets bored one day and decides to not spot stories of hope and goodness in young Rohens ears through the book (which would make for a good alternate story and a way to continue the series through another timeline.... dang now I REALLY want a spellforce 4) then repeating a loop to ensure the continuation of Eo is an easy feat for an eternal god of good
You deserve more subs but sadly the community is pretty dead , I grew up with spellforce 1 and 2 and it’s sad to see them forgotten by the majority of people
i like this games and i still play them
We will never forget - still playing it today! Also it was good to see the Steam version received an update too! Hope that as SpellForce 3 will continue, maybe they won't abandon SpellForce 1 and polish it a bit further (the 1.61 version still has some bugs that could be fixed). Maybe one day we will receive a remastered or definitive edition just as GTA did.
Very nice video!
Still, some weird things: Why Ereon gave the book only on second loop? And only to a single Rohen? He could have given it to both, right?
Why in the opening, both Rohens fight over a book? Old Rohen could have just surrender it, after all his goal was to make young one read it? In fact, why he appeared the last moment before the convocation? Young Rohen greets him, meaning they already crossed paths... so why did old Rohen waited until point of no return to try and talk to him, and then fight? Also, why he didn't warned other circle mages? He had the book written by a guardian, quite solid proof! Weird.
And finally, why Rohen changes so much after reading? Ok, convocation is a scam, but how did that affect his motivation and lust for power? As a last surviving circle mage, he could have ruled the world unchallenged, even without the ultra-power he craved. Instead, he just goes 180° on his quest for dominance and turns into a selfless hero..
Anyway, great video! Watching your videos inspired me to once again replay the first game, so cheers!
Thats really good content. Thats why, i guess, we always play OoD because of the constant time loop. So, we are all part of it.
Holly Molly! I did not realize it until now! 😱😱😱😱
I think that Rohen's aging is just a design choice to make him more recognizable. It's easier to understand the loop if you can relate to the age of a character. Sometimes even ,,old'' people are considered wiser because they have more experiences and understand more things, thus it could be that the Rohen is older because he be seen as the wiser one. I don't really catch the ,,i don't want to use archfire anymore" idea.
@@Wormic I have to agree, also, as the portals are still powered by the archfire, Rohen still had to use archfire based magic to created those.
Ahh that loop cinematic was so cool, my mind was blown trying to understand what happened! just got all the spellforce games for like 20 bucks on steam 5 min ago, ready to go all the way to sf 3, never finished the phoenix tho that'll be my first goal before hitting sf2 wish me luck!
Just finished the game, i was so confused especially because of the sudden aging or Rohenat the end.
I have a question, does the loop breaks in any of the sequel games?
No, the sequel games (bow, sotp shadow wars and Dragon storm) are all based on the assumption that the final loop continues indefinitely and without changes
I wish Ross's Game Dungeon would cover this game
It seems perfect for his show. A mostly obscure, German game lol
really good channel and im enjoying replaying Order of Dawn and playing first time Phoenix story in 2023!
God I love you mate. There is still content being made for this awesome game :)
I was thinking, have you perhaps considered covering who the Phoenix Bearer really is? As in like why is that person the one Rohen considers the best 'for the job' etc. I know some people speculated it could have been Tahar who I don't think has a confirmed gender but while I know your view on the prequel's events i'd love to hear your thoughts on that
Thing about Tahar is, they die off-screen between base SF3 and SF3SH, but its also never explained, why did the Rune not bring Tahar back, so it's an interesting idea, Tahar asleep in the Rune for like 550 years. And as he said before, any idea you like from SF3, thats not contradicting anything, might as well be true.
The order of dawn was awesome, I feel as though they messed up 2 & 3
Are you going to continue playthrough / analysis of SP3FG?
Idk just completed the first campaign. All i got here was that there is a time loop and young rohen kills old rohen and old rohen summons you or something and then gets trapped by young rohen and this version becomes old rohen again ? Why do 2 rohen exist at the same time ? Does one version stay then in the timeline ?
So the events during the time loop are not changing anymore to this point right? And this is the reason why the timeline stays stable and the people keep existing in the timeline we played? Even when Rohen was sucessful in travelling back in time? I am still a bit confused. :D
@@CalvinWolff-b9x the loop pretty much got set up to a point where it always identically repeats for the sake of the story being able to continue as is. A way of thinking about it is that you could imagine there is no loop anymore at this point. There is, but since it's identical it doesn't change or impact anything with the timeline anymore.
It seemed to me that the main problem with the arch-fire was that even once I understood its deleterious effects, it was almost impossible to give it up. Like a spice. If this needle could be so easily abandoned, then the makers should have preserved their civilization instead of degenerating into humans, dwarves, and elves.
Great explanation. Just still trying to figure out, if a rituel was needed to awoke the elements and start the convocation? Or the elements would awake anyway on Convocation day without a rituel? If a rituel was needed, who made them while both of them fighting each other? I guess I still couldn't understand the running of convocation thing clearly :P Anyways, good job!
do the Amra and Lea Quest explained !!! PLs
I feel like that shoutout in the beginning belongs to me. Then again there is another guy who also does. I am confused :D
No that other guy is actually you from the future 😂.
You shouldn´t put it into the video title.
Not good if people want to play it some day but accidently see this.
Oh, yes, they will be spoiled on a 17 years old game.
@@BelelEscabel darth vader is lukes father
he read whatever is written in the Book of Convovation then his hair goes white from fright 😂
What I don't get, is that rohen knows how he is going to die, right? Then why doesn't he change his fate? Why doesn't he avoid falling into the trap that rohen sets up for himself?
Also, before the dark rohen enters the time portal, why doesn't the phoenix bearer go after him to try and stop him?
And shouldn't there be two phoenix stones now?
@@Wormic Thats a fast reply.
But as to what you said,
going on a time loop is also not ideal. It's like replaying the whole game over and over and over again, forever. Nothing would change.
I think it would be better for rohen to just accept that he fucked up big time, and take responsibility for his actions. To change his fate, and the fate of others.
@@Wormic And then we are back to square one...
@@Little-Buster You can't change your fate if you're dead since the Og timeline has the Convocation happens, the elements return, and everyone's dead. If anything, the current game is the "changed fate" since everyone is still alive. Then again, "changing your fate" is an inherently silly idea since you can't change something you have no idea about and that's just the first reason why
Clever Hulk : "Time travel :) "
Thank you!
Лучшая игра)) спасибо за творчество!)
(Best game)) thanks for your videos!)
As my YT name might imply I actually prefer not to have my real name mentioned anywhere on public websites :)
I remember I wrote you because it seemed like there was this Idea out there that there are several different timelines after SotP even though the only other one is, as Rohen explained, completely dead.
Been waiting 8 months for this, and it was worth it.
Does this mean they are creating a virtually endless amount of new realities as it was explained in SP3 (Even though the story of SP3 could be considered non-cannon, the realities theory there could explain this as well).
@@Wormic So you think that when Rohen enters the portal his reality, the one after convocation simply ceases to exist? I do not think so considering there are games that continue the story on after the pointo of him returning to the past if I am not mistaken. Otherwise him entering the time portal would completely nulifie the existence of the "future timeline" he leaves behind.
@@Wormic Well, apart from the spare two timelines that are part of the setup, where, respectively, Rohen #1 destroys most of what's left of Eo to power his portal, and where Rohen #2 is the first Rohen to obtain the Phoenix stone, with the slight differences you mentioned - so a total of three alternate realities, I think? Good video.
@@cpugwash7085 Hey, you are right that there are 3 different timeloops, Wormic when through them all nicely . but the second and the third end in the exact same way. With the hero thinking she killed rohen and taking the phoenix with her. In the second timeline she did kill him with the trapped chest, but in the third(Edit: and everytime after) he committed suicide with the chest to enforce the loop and create a future.
That leaves the first loop, which is the only other loop thats very different. Rohen collects all the Godstones and the world basically breaks apart, the elements take back over etc. This timeline just stops and has no future.
So there are 3 different loops but only one future.
Edit2: Sadly the english translation is not as good as the original(german), but in the german version Rohen makes it very clear that he knows whats about to happen: ruclips.net/video/YYkAqEBf5TU/видео.html
@@DoriKl Any life ceases to exist, but timeline doesn't end in the original. However, this time travel most likely uses a single world model, meaning changes in the past rewrite old timelines.
What I don´t get for example is why only the first Rohan didn´t take part in the Convocation while all the following ones seem to be ready without old Rohen disturbance. I just guess they accepted the plotholes for the storytelling :)
@@Wormic Thanks for the quick response. In that case, why would old Rohan even have to interfere with his younger self anyways? Assuming things turn out to be the same with every loop. Because if he really wanted to stop his younger self then why didn´t he go there earlier, as his younger self already seems to know him. Or tries to convince all the circle mages right from the start, I mean he has this book to proof it at this point. Or he may even build an army of himselfs by extending his live more and more with the allfire until he has enough selfs to tame it :)
@@Wormic Yeah you are right the elements and not the archfire. I think I just don´t get how it is possible that he couldn´t establish even the smallest connection with his younger self in a positive way. He could literally write the future days on a parchment seal it and hand it to him and be like: "Hey look, I know you don´t believe me. I return in like 48 hours and I guarantee you that I predicted them perfectly" or something like that. Not the first or even the second one. But the second old Rohen to the third young Rohen for example.
"This Rohen now knows that his younger self will always keep trying to go back to win the whole thing, but there's no guarantee that Ereon will always give him this book, so he devises a plan where the younger Rohen always gets the book and the loop continues." - Or he could leave the old book at a place where he knows that his younger self would hide or stay for longer, maybe even with a little letter :)
As for the Rohan army - at some point (if they manage to convince their younger selfs next in line over and over again) - they could very well slaughter the circle and wouldn´t have to negotiate with them :)
@@Wormic Yes everyone makes mistakes, but Rohen seems to keep making the same ones and keeps on to them even tho he would be the key to pass down information over the generations to break the cycle. (Sounds a bit like good old Vaas in that context).
The Rohen army is a quiet similar point I think, because if the Rohens don´t intervene there will be an unlimited amount of worlds (or dimensions, I don´t know what would fit better in that context) to suffer, other then stopping it at one point (even if it would be with a blast to slaughter the already power blinded circle).
I don´t know how effective this would be in the Spellforce lore but especially an army of ice based mages do sound like the perfect counter to a ritual that needs to be timed on point.
@@Wormic I meant it a bit less as a one time decision - I would completely understand that. If you can´t foresee the outcome you have to go with the tete-system (trial-error-trial-exit)(the first two steps can be unlimited -1). It´s just the repetition that sounds strange.
But that seems to be a common problem of these ultra intelligent, ultra powerful and long living mages no matter the franchise. They somehow loose there view on the big picture out of nowhere. Otherwise they would be too overpowered anyways :)
@@naberiusxielarian3905 I think it's mostly 2 things: self-penance and the true nature of fate. The former is because of all the nasty things he did and so as a sacrifice he puts himself in a loop to endure the future where the alternative is everybody DED so don't rock the boat to not make more problems. The latter is what fate always was: you have no idea what it is until you're in in but when it happens you can't change it anymore since it in the past. Perhaps the gods may have a peak but even then, its but a guess. Fate is unchangeable. Always was, always will be. No man knows his fate or that of another. Thinking otherwise has always been pure copium. Deal the cards you've been dealt and play the best game you can. Save yourself the wasted effort of disappointment
That and Ereon probably knows of the loop so unless he gets bored one day and decides to not spot stories of hope and goodness in young Rohens ears through the book (which would make for a good alternate story and a way to continue the series through another timeline.... dang now I REALLY want a spellforce 4) then repeating a loop to ensure the continuation of Eo is an easy feat for an eternal god of good
Hätte jetzt nicht gedacht dass das Spiel so weit geht. Als Kind war ich sehr verwirrt :D
Thank you for explaining
Does he have same backstory as sf3.
@@Wormic that's why I asked he doesn't sound like someone u would trust in sf3
Nice video mate I quite enjoyed it and it perfectly explained what the hell was going on with rohen.