RUclips MUTED A SEEMINGLY RANDOM SIX SECONDS OF AUDIO AT ONE POINT IN THE VIDEO, IRONICALLY, IT WAS SIX SECONDS THAT ACTUALLY WERENT NEEDED AS THE POINT BEING MADE WAS VISUAL, BUT IF YOURE WONDERING WHERE THOSE SIX SECONDS WENT, IT WAS RUclips. A FEW IMPORTANT THINGS: 1) This video is strictly in reference to the "Best Actor" categories! 2) I wanted to try something new with framing hence the widescreen format! 3) Obviously spoilers for Dark Knight and Joker!
MrWabbleWabble Honestly, I feel as though anyone that clicks on a video breaking down a movie and a scene, should expect that scene to be spoiled for them. Especially when the title is “this is what x scene is”. I put it here because more people interact with the comment section than the description! Hope that explains it!
The batman trilogy by Nolan. Those are the best superhero movies ever made, even the last one. Marvel's reliance on spectacle over storytelling and depth is a great disadvantage, they have more human characters. It is telling that DC, apart from when they do really dark portraits of their heroes fail at making any sensible movies. They have problematic characters to develop for movies, predictable and overpowered.
Coach Simp when arthur was just arthur his uncontrollable laughing condition was painful to him because it made him stand out in a bad way but when he becomes the joker he embraces the laughing because as the joker he already stands out so the laugh helps emphasize that
Coach Simp laughing out of nowhere in every situation is obviously not “normal” so arthur couldn’t fit in even when laughter is a pleasing action. As the Joker he embraced it and decided to enjoy all of it as he does not seek or want to fit in anymore.
I hate the fact that he had to embrace it. The psychiatrist who was so weary with so many patients was a spark. The ridicule from his hero, his mother's revelation about his "father" along with the fact that she was mentally ill... Mental illness is real and terrible.
I like the fact that the Joker himself is so complex that two actors (Ledger and Phoenix) delivered completely different roles, but they still fit the character perfectly.
The way Joaquins voice trembles like he’s going to burst in tears when he compares the three boys deaths to his own was impeccable. Phoenix really put his heart into Joker.
For me that is one of the best scene in cinematic history. Phoenix's dailogue delivery , his eyes, his posture , body moment , trembles in his voice makes that scene so emotionally potent , it just strikes audiences nervous cord sending shimmers thru their body.
@@drrightwing4435 a I agree, tad overly dramatic statement. Think that Joker movie hypnotised a lot of people, at best it's alright, think its cuz we've had a pants selection of strong movies in the last few years
@@drrightwing4435 If he says he thinks its the best scene in cinematic history, he clearly means compared to *anything* that went before it. I'd have thought that was obvious, no?
The two scariest things to exist are a man so vulnerable that he has nothing left to lose and a man so invulnerable that there is no way to take anything from him. Someway, somehow, these two actors managed to play the “same” character while being complete opposites, yet equally terrifying. Truly magnificent.
Filthy Skrib Both are amazing my dude. It’s not all about “comic accuracy.” You have your preference and that’s okay. Ledger reinvented the character, taking inspirations from Jokers comic book origin and making something that would better fit the Gotham that had been portrayed in that series. Phoenix did the same, fitting Joker into a character that fit the Gotham portrayed in that movie. People will always have their preference, I personally like Ledgers Joker a lot just because I have a lot of memories with The Dark Night and also I respect just how much he put into that role. But saying that doesn’t diminish the fact the Phoenix also put a lot into the role and also deserves an oscar.
@@tobyriecke3972 why adapt a character if you dont want to use the character? Arthur Fleck is a fantastic Joker, truly! But Ledger was...there is already a character that fits his exact M.O in Gotham. Pretty sure he is straight up called Anarchist. Imagine Batman who fought crime not because his parents died but rather, he was bullied in school and his parents help him to become a superhero! That's just as equal to the change in Joker for TDK. Not the same character. Let's forgive and forget inaccuracy in favor of real criticism...the Joker design was edgy YIKES af! Some of the cringiest cosplay I have ever seen, truly...and that's a fucking actor being paid to play the role. I remember how nobody gave a flying fuck about Ledger until he died, which is god damn hilarious! The only reason he is revered is because he died and that somehow makes him a great actor...anyone else could have done the role, and it likely would have been better honestly. Or maybe if the script wasnt so close to a shadow the hedgehog fan fiction. I was embarrassed watching the movie with my parents and I was a child...what a pathetic Joker laugh, and not to mention that annoying af voice. The same people who commend Ledger likely feel nothing but positive nostalgia for Tim Burton's Batman despite it being the farthest thing from Batman in any form of media. Straight up directed by a man who vowed never to read a comic, as well as taunting those who do...then again that's why he turned a great character into a pathetic romantic cliche
Filthy Skrib No just no u tried it , the joker design in the dark knight was terrifying af and u are wrong when u say “ no one gave a flying fuck about ledger until he died “ Photos came out revealing what he looked like and people loved it and that’s when he was alive. If u honestly think that Joaquins joker makeup is terrrifying or better than u are batshit crazy and I won’t even comment back to whatever ur reply is gonna be . U gotta be absolutely fucking out of ur mind if u think the jokers voice in the dark knight is annoying and then listen to Arthur in his voice say shit like “ I pass u every day on the street and u don’t notice me “ or “ they think we’ll just take it like good little boys “. No u are wrong about heath fans that don’t accept when someone is better cuz the truth is there hasn’t been anything better, the closest thing that came to the insane and terrifying joker in the dark knight was Cameron Monaghan in that first scene in Gotham when he revealed he killed his mom . The joker portrayed in this film doesn’t suck but it for sure doesn’t compete with heaths joker and Joaquin is better as Arthur than he is joker and the transition of the character is what made the film work. He isn’t terrifying at all his make up isn’t chilling at all his voice is weird af and sounds like a female. One thing I’ve seen about heath ledger haters is that they will say or do anything to knock it down and say the dumbest most lamest shit to back it up, Joaquins joker again doesn’t suck it works for the movie and there still a lot that we have to see, let’s say for arguments sake that the joker we got in the film will be the same portrayal we would get if they made sequels then it definelty makes no match to heaths joker in the slightest and that’s not to say that he sucks it just means that it’s not better
how he acts right after shooting murray to me is the best acting of the movie. The shaking and smiling stare he has after.. followed by dancing. It’s amazing
Yes! And the way he stands up and sort of doesn't know what to do with himself, before he shoots "Mur-RAY" again. Pure madman. Just the way Joaquin moves his body throughout the movie... the walk, the dance, the way he clutches his throat/chest when he goes into his laughing fits... Incredible performance.
It’s like in those moments, he is getting more and more comfortable with what he has become. It unnerves him, but he realizes in those moments he has taken the plunge… and may as well embrace it fully.
I’m not good at analysing film or explaining precisely what makes a movie/scene good but those moments hit me hard, the eyes of both those jokers told you everything.
@@chronicbullets6751 In the original script Arthur has scars at the edges of his mouth from the start of the movie and at the end when he's standing on the car he uses a piece of glass to cut them open again.
I love you for noticing that. No one else has mentioned it. Every time there was a blue light on the suit it turned it purple. From the living room dance with his mother, the behind the curtain and looking into the camera all gave us the purple suit. Great eye.
Plus for the people looking, it is a perfect blend of comic book Joker and animated series Joker. Comic book Joker would make the shot then just sit there laughing or maybe dancing in place and laughing but Joker from the animated series would walk to the camera, move the camera, HELL, DANCE with the camera like they are in a waltz.
@@VVeremoose that's what joker as a whole is about? That is what the irony is.we so called civilised people don't care a dime about anyone else. So when the chip turns we will kill each other. No body would ask how everyone is doing? We don't deserve saving. We deserve punishment. Because our society is nothing but a joke. A joke put on like a mask of civilization and we boast about it.
The best part about their performances was that they took 2 different approaches to the character but both approaches ARE the Joker. That's why there is no winner because they both hit the character of the Joker perfectly.
@@RandoLePerson No, Nicholson didn't. Sorry, but look at the way the Joker uses his body to talk.. Jack didnt do that at all.. Maybe 1 time the whole movie.. The charisma of the Joker is not in Jack Nicholsons performace at all.
The Joaquin Phoenix joker scene when he was on the Murray show was really incredible in theaters. I really felt like I had just witnessed a murder. That’s another level of immersion.
That's the thing though these days ......Horrific mass murders/murders being played out in real life. You just never know what's ticking over in some people's minds !. I find that extremely sad, and also that the resources and funding are just so stretched to the limit , atrocities can happen so frequently.
I think Joaquin's Oscar moment began when Arthur starts laughing uncontrollably, then you realize he's choking on tears and can't stop laughing. At first everyone in the audience started chuckling along, I was too. Then it got uncomfortable. Then I was wincing in pain, it was cringe but the very worst kind of cringe, a horror moment. His eyes! His body contortions! I don't know what Joaquin had to draw on to accomplish that horror each time he launched into a fit of laughing/choking.
Spot on, and so many other scenes, like the dark scene where he kills his friend in front of Gary, the dance, the report he reads on the stairs.....and on and on
I disagree despite having the same reason as you. Heath ledgers joker was more emotionally moving. Sure, Joaquin’s performance is gritty and savagely depressing. It’s incredible without a doubt. But Heath ledgers joker is one of very very few characters that made me feel true fear. To me, ledgers joker is a more terrifying look at insanity than even Hannibal Lecter because Lecters insanity is built in. It was always there and you can just chalk it up to a fault in his brain making him think differently. But Ledgers joker is justified. He never says why, in fact he lies about his reasons 3 times when he tells people about his scars, but the knowledge that he became insane instead of starting that way is deeply uncomfortable. We know that there is a path to his insanity, but we’ll never know what it is, or even if we are on the same path. Simply put, Joaquin’s joker makes me sympathise with what Arthur had become, but Ledger made me fear what I could become. The idea that a human can turn into that under the wrong circumstances is far more terrifying than any horror I can dream of.
I think that was the point of that movie, though. Phoenix's Joker was meant to show a person, a person who lives in the real world and how real a potential it is to descend into madness. Heath's Joker was meant to show a character, a role in a story whose characteristics were already developed and firmly established. Phoenix showed the Joker was once a human being. Heath showed Joker as a fully mature monster. The reason Phoenix's Joker has a more emotional effect is because 'normal' people are made aware of how close they might be to madness, that though just enough misfortunes, they, too, might become dangerous. But it's much more difficult for the average person to envision themselves becoming the highly calculated, manic, full-time agent of chaos that Heath showed. The Joker was such a memorable movie because it was a reflection of the fear and anxiety that exists in much of our modern society. Heath's Joker was an entertainment product, an extremely-well crafted and acted persona of a comic book villain.
@@galaxybrain_658 Funny, I had the inverse take away from each performance. Seeing what Heath's Joker became didn't inspire fear in me, because characters like his aren't real. But seeing a fragile human being go through the process of repeated neglect and ultimate descent into madness and violence through Phoenix's performance, did. Phoenix's performance showed the process, how relatable it can be, and how it's not out of the question that someone whose relatively normal today can completely lose it eventually. The humanity of his performance was much more relevant and much more unsettling. Heath's performance was masterful, but it's extremely difficult to imagine oneself becoming that calculated for the sole purpose of creating chaos. Real world psychopaths and sociopaths operate at much smaller scales than trying to throw an entire city into anarchic chaos through elaborate plans. The sort of folks who specialize in sewing instability, chaos, and division in the real world wear suites and ties and walk the halls of ornate buildings and behind doors with lots of security. They're not manic clowns roaming free.
i may have missed something in dark knight... how do we know he wasnt always crazy? we never saw him before he was crazy, as far as we know he was always crazy?@@galaxybrain_658
@@Phil.Anthropy no, that would be if a normal human beats somebody and he starts to laugh but now imagine someone like batman who is stronger than 600 men according to his master beats somebody and he just laughs
Joker shooting Murray feels like one of the only times in a movie where a gun shot startled me. Not cuz it was loud or surprising that Murray got shot, but because of the build up of all elements leading to such a shocking moment
That's because that scene is similarly structured to Taxi Driver (SPOILER) when Travis shoots Sport on the stoop. It is filmed so matter of fact after Travis ask a bunch of odd questions and acts kind of nerdy. Then all of a sudden he just blast dude point blank in the stomach.
Definitely a trait borrowed from Scorsese. People complained that it was too violent, but it treated violence the way it should be treated. It's the movie's where people drop like flies that are desensitizing.
Nate Foote it’s not even violent, even compared to other r rated comic book films. The one truly violent scene that matched the tone people were giving the film was the scissor scene People overhyped the fuck out of this movie. It made the experience dull for me. You want violence, read the comic book. That joker would have thumbed the bullet hole of Murray’s head and danced with his jangling corpse
@@MonkeyDIvan I didn't mean that literally Monkey.. I just meant in this movie he made Joker his own. It's just an expression. "My definition of "born to play" is that when I think of a character or a genre of movie that persons face should appear in my mind." (Quara) As did Heath in his. They both owned their parts. Iconic roles..
@@JH0207 This one was pitiful and really overly praised. That scene had a bad dialogue. Movies such as The Master deserve more praise than this overhyped flawed movie.
Quintessential acting moment, right there. I wouldn't be surprised if THAT scene is the clip they play when introducing the Best Actor Nominees at the ceremony!🏆
The reason why heath ledger's joker is more controlled is because he has already been through his journey and he is a fully realized joker. Joaquin's joker is the one going through all the ups and downs of becoming the character he is, the instability. And those are both difficult beautiful sides of a character to do
I'd like to think heath legders joker was a kid around the time fleck went nuts and thats what influenced him for the dark knight, he did say he wanted chaos.
The fact that very few people can choose a favourite between these two portrayals of The Joker speaks volumes about what the actors individually brought to the table. Two outstanding performances that are already fully embedded in the cultural landscape. It is fitting that the "definitive" Joker is actually two individuals.
@@wet-readthat’s fine, I personally choose Joaquin. I like gritty, sad and painful characters. Joaquin delivers a perfect example of what I feel the joker in this world is.
@@jahyamack8359 Joaquin Phoenix! I think he’s the best actor I’ve ever seen. He is absolutely amazing and makes me feel what he’s feeling as well as being able to convey how Arthur feels with the music in his head and his eyes tell so much of a story that when he was “laughing “ you could see that he was in true pain, I could write a whole essay on his performance
@@Asm920 Well seeing as your talking about Joaquin, I 100% agree. At no part of the movie did it feel like he was acting, the entire time my thoughts were just “oh no, what’s he gonna do to him” or “why would they say that?, Arthur’s done nothing wrong”. And, like you said, that laugh was incredible!, it made me sorta tug/rub at my own throat due to how well he showed the pain. Gotta give credit to the extra’s too, they were convincing as f~ck.
When Joaquin says "you're awful, Murray," the look in his eyes can only be described as pure hatred. It opens Arthur up emotionally in such an honest way that you can't help but feel his hatred for Murray because Arthur looked up to him but Murray embarrassed him publicly.
@@sMASHsound Yeah, hate isn't an emotion that just pops up, it's something that is born through anger and spite, maybe some jealousy/envy sprinkled in. Hate takes time to be born from true raw emotions. He was angry, wounded and felt as if he had something important to him ripped away unceremoniously. Those things were conveyed in a span of 3-4 seconds of facial expression.
Also, Joaquin's 911 call to save his brother, River Phoenix, from dying of an overdose outside of a nightclub was leaked to the press for their entertainment. His brother died and the whole world got to watch it on access Hollywood. That had to contribute to this
plus Murray IS awful - he's an exploitative sociopath who earns a living laughing at the expense of others, and what he says to Arthur privately and publicly are inconsistent; Murray is a showbiz liar, emblematic of everything wrong in bling capitalism. What a line.
And Murray, so caught up in his own importance that he completely missed the danger signals. DeNiro's performance doesn't get mentioned but it was a brilliant portrayal of a douchebag.
After Joker kills Murray he begins to walk away as if he was showing concern or regret, then he does his clown dance and goes back to The Joker. I like that part.
The thing that I loved so much about Joker is that I could understand everything that Arthur did, everyone he killed, he did it because they wronged him, and it didn’t feel like a movie, it was like watching someone’s life.
i am obsessed with this movie,because this movie is a horror movie,the perfect horror movie because usualy a villain is distant, even if its relatable is from something, from a part of it, but the joker, its most of us he is human, he is a full psicopat on its best encarnation, the scary part is that the audience even for a second...fully conect to him, the audience recognize the joker on his madnness, in every aspect of it, and on his expressionn, body languaje, even reaction, we understand him,but not understand what he is doing, you become scared of yourself for connecting to him, for understanding something that you everyday saw on television as another crazy guy some people after seing this movie, start berraving as joker, because they realized that....they started felling like him
@@daveurban2011 Sweet heavens some typos was kicking at my brain trying correct them but man do I want to kiss you for typing all this out because that was the crisis I had after watching the movie, how much empathy I felt for his character.
Off topic: Heath ledger (rapist) originally committed suicide. Whining Batman fans had to beg higher officials to alter the reason to OD'ed. Joaquin phoenix is genuine winner.
@@delteriboh44 "All that chit chats gonna get you hurt" "The fire in my loin! The itch in my crotch!" "Hunkahunka" Yeah the script could have been better hahahaha
The problem with playing the Joker is that it requires a proper balance of giving the character humanity and madness. If not done correctly, the character becomes too much like a caricature .
Heath Ledger: A very effective and scary Joker because we don't know anything about his character. We don't understand how he became this way or why he's doing this, which makes a very inhuman villain. The fact that we can't relate to his character is what makes him terrifying. Joaquin Phoenix: A very scay and effective Joker because we know to much about him. We do understand how he became this way and why he's doing this, which make him a very human villain. The fact that we can relate to his character is what makes him terrifying.
@Donald Piniach More like Chaotic Evil for Joaquin Phoenix. He lost all faith in people when he came to terms with his delusions and decided that he would make society pay for the cruelty shown to him
Exactly. When I saw the 2019 film, I was really struck by it because I realized that the Joker was anyone and everyone at the same time. It was a real performance. Very real.
joaquin's acting was so good that it was really hard to watch the movie, like it felt so uncomfortable to watch, which goes to show how good the acting was
@@cctomcat321 honestly, i somewhat agree, i feel like the movie wasn't really focused on the idea of the joker, which isn't bad at all. it was a good movie and they just used the joker character as part of the story, so it wasn't really a joker movie per se.
@@apex_xd8907 exactly. People give me crap when I say that, but it's true. He's just... Not the Joker. This film would've been way better had it not relied on that premise. The Joker is calculating and a mad genius in his own rights. Arthur is just a sad, beaten up crazy dude looking for a hug. But that doesn't mean Pheonix did a bad job.
@@cctomcat321 That’s why I loved the movie so much. It was grounded in reality. I love when comic book characters get that treatment. I personally thought this was a great way to approach a character like the joker. The film is sad and grim and real (not literally real obviously, but people like him do exist). I loved it for the same reason I loved Logan. Gritty and real.
For me, the bathroom dance scene actually made him grab the Oscar. What a marvelous transition that was from Arthur to Joker. When I was watching that scene in the cinema hall, whole of the audience including me was stunned and absorbed in utter silence.
My favorite thing about both jokers is that they feel like real people, they have an amount of insanity that is believable, one connects with you mentally, The other connects with you emotionally, I'm not good with words but that's kinda what i got watching them.
Off topic: Heath ledger (rapist) originally committed suicide. Whining Batman fans had to beg higher officials to alter the reason to OD'ed. Joaquin is genuine winner.
@@ashokkumarganesan3927 what are you talking about? he's never had any rape allegations against him, (i looked it up and nothing showed) and his cause of death was accidental drug overdose from prescription medication. i don't understand where you got that information from
Joaquin's joker was scary in a creepy way Heath's joker was scary in a intimidating way. Edit: When I say scary, I mean someone that puts fear into someone. Would you sit next to someone that just stares at you and talks and threatens you and stay? Would you be calm with someone that is chasing you and light a city on fire to get rid of you?
Idk I don't find Joaquins joker scary I feel empathy for him but with heaths joker I don't find him scary I find him interesting and want to know what he's hiding from us in the next few scenes
@@Raven-cf5qd I think people mean scary conceptually and not a horror movie kind of sense. Conceptually they both are scary but you have to imagine yourself being a party to the moment. Phoenix's joker is "scary" in a way where if you were sitting next to him conversing, you're just not certain what he is going to do because he is literally losing grip with reality and is relatively unpredictable because you don't really know what his truth is or what he even intends or wants to do about it. *Spoilers* like the scene where he stabs his co worker violently to death with a pair of scissors in front of his other co-worker, tells the other co-worker he won't hurt him because he likes him, but then proceeds to toy around with him a little. You would never really be certain if he is sincere or if he messing around with you before plunging some scissors in your neck. Ledgers joker is "scary" because you know he intends to create chaos, but you have an uncertainty about the scope, lethality, means by which he intends to do it, or why he even wants to in the first place. He is definitely psychotic, but he isn't crazy, or at least comes off pretty lucid, but nonetheless he wants chaos and he has already calculated his position so that by time you realize you are even playing chess, he is already lining up his winning move.
@Rei Ren I love the movie but this is spot on. The Joker name was used as a skin to a concoction of Scorsese templates to boost the movies popularity, and it worked brilliantly. Ledger had no weakness, nothing you could do to him to make him buckle, he wanted to watch the world burn and nothing was going to stop him. Don't get me wrong, Phoenix was fantastic as well but the 'Joker' theme just felt more to me like a cash grab. Two very different, very fantastic portrayals
Joaquin Phoenix entire role was an Oscar winning performance. Due to his continual conflict with mental illness throughout the entire movie. The writers of the joker pinpointed the effects of people with actual schizophrenia. The struggle of not being whole because of others and their effects on his own psychi. To kill what he believed made him incomplete. The movie is so deep. Yes heath ledger played a brilliant role of an angry bi polar joker. But Phoenix dived deep in the mind of a true schizophrenic. Joker transcended the story to bring reality to normal people about the effects of deep mental disability.
I have lived with someone with Schizophrenia..... this joker is nothing like the reality. Not even close. If this performance was suppose to be based on the "schizophrenia" aspect, they missed the mark by MILES.... And the performance was not that good.... But each to their own...
@@joseph9418 please give details? Very vague comment to make. I know first hand about schizophrenia. And there is many levels of it and many variations of schizophrenia. Phoenix was characterizing one aspect of schizophrenia. See I know your story is not true because your not even aware of the many different levels and types of schizophrenia.
@@greekperspective2076 thank you. Came here to say this. I grew up with a parent who had schizophrenia… there’s many different expressions, and you cant just say “ah yes, this one character captures the essence of schizophrenia” - particularly when the vast majority of people with schizophrenia are non-violent, that kind of statement does nothing but perpetuate harmful stereotypes. It’s a great movie, but let’s not pretend it’s anything close to a true story or a realistic portrayal of a particular illness.
matthew martin I think Heath and Joaquin should not be compared, the first reason is that it’s like comparing your children 😂 and the second reason is that even tho they’re playing the same character, one of them is a complete Joker, and the other one is Arthur transforming into the Joker, in other words they’re completely different.
I loved the end scene in joker where he was in the asylum and he laughs while talking to the physiatrist and she asks him “what’s funny?” And he’s like “ I thought of a joke” and she says “can you tell me the joke?” And he says “you wouldn’t get it”. He finally accepts he thinks differently and that it’s okay.
It's always interesting to me is that every actor who has portrayed a cinematic, live-action Joker has won an Academy Award. All four of those actors are considered by their peers to be among the best, but damn it if Jared Leto (or maybe Suicide Squad) didn't screw the Joker up LOL
@@alphaturtle3806 That performance was overblown cringe. You can't blame anybody but Leto for the acting choices he made in that role. He took a shit script and then took an over dramatic, corny shit right on top of it. That's on him.
@@dani-ell-ah I was speaking on the diced up nature of the movie in reference. All jokers have taken liberties towards the character. The difference is the freedom the director had in composing the film which was ruined from the beginning by “executives” But to each their own
That moment with Murray in the end really stands out. Joker’s voice cracks and genuine emotion really comes through. It’s the last time Joker seems like a normal person that a lot of people would support/empathize with Granted. He still has plenty of support after his final transformation, but you know what I mean
Agreed, Arthur/Joker FINALLY seems stable and balanced, before he completely descends into full blown madness, and embraces his villainous alter ego!😱😨
Tbh i dont think anyone would empathize with this man simply because the focal point was one where youd sympathize and want to be this mans friend the reality is we have psychotic people such as this all around us and tends to end in the same way where you see someone kill another then dead but the truth is that his only friend was his mother.
The difference in each actor’s performance that you’re describing is vulnerability. Phoenix’s Joker felt vulnerable while Ledger’s version felt invincible.
But that also reflects what seems like a natural progression in which the Joker starts of vulnerable to empowered. Then, by the time Heath's joker comes around, he has become really invincible and confident!
Ledger's joker was about the joker being the joker, Phonenix's was about a man becoming the joker. I enjoyed both, but Phonenix's joker was more true to the comic lore as far as his overall outlook.
@@andyknolls8735 Funny how everyone says that about Ledger's version, too. So I guess they were both true to it in their own way of portraying him at different times.
it just struck me watching this video, that Joaquin's version of the Joker really works as a prequel to Heath's. I just imagine that the Joker became so calm and collected by learning from Murray, a man he obsessed about for so long
@@samahnsoleimanian1756 Batman himself is a very uninteresting character unless you also portray him as a bit unhinged. Introduce that little bit of psychosis into his character and the possibilities open up.
The similarities I've noticed Joaquin's joker - "Do I look like a clown that could start a movement" *starts a movement* ledger's Joker - "Do I look like a guy with a plan?" *plans everything to eliminate hope from gotham*
For me, when Arthur does that balletic dance in the bathroom after killing those three guys on the subway is the moment I knew that this was truly masterful performance by Joaquin. It's absolutely chilling.
In the DVD they said that scene was going to be something like hiding the gun but then they thought, why would he worry about hiding a gun? He wasn't being rational. Then Joaquin ask to hear the score that was recorded for the scene and it inspired him to do exactly what he did in the scene.
@@floydsghost I read about that. It's amazing how he improvised that dance on the spot thus creating one of the most beautifully unsettling scenes in cinematic history.
"he is the joker" Yeah, the thought literally didnt cross my mind until years after i saw the movie that someone was actually playing his character and it wasnt just the Joker
No, his whole plan was to kill himself. Which is exactly what he did. He killed everything in his life and that's what they teased he was going to do. He killed his career, he killed his family and friends, the only thing he had left to connect himself to Arthur was his father figure in Murray. By shooting Murray, he killed Arthur and completed the Joker, that's the joke, it's the punchline. In a deck of cards the Joker is tossed aside usually, Murray was the king. The Joker beat the King.
Both Heath and Joaquin were amazing in these movies. A good actor can make you watch and watch and watch again a movie in a genre you previously thought you detested bc the performances pull you into the film. You can't get enough.
The best part imo was when he opened his book to tell a joke only to look down and see "I hope my death makes more cents than my life". It was at that exact moment that Arthur knew that he was not going to kill himself and instead, create and incite unrest and chaos.
I don't think so. Every actor seems to try a different Joker. Arthur Fleck doesn't really feel like the true Joker. Great performance but really just a mental patient pushed too far. Jared's Joker didn't do it for me either but it was closer to the entitled, confident Joker we all know.
@@genghiskhan7691 I am aware of the original quote. In the animated show Aeon Flux which came out in 1991 the main character changed it to "whatever doesn't kill you makes you stranger." Now it could have been two writers having the same idea, but I kind of doubt it.
For me, when the Joker sticks his head out of the police car like a mad dog (a dog chasing cars), that convinced me that it's not only one of the best movies, but also one of the best performances even given.
The cinematography, color, lighting, etc. (the silence except for the high pitched, recurring "joker sound", Nolan excels at those) of that shot makes it probably the most iconic shot in comicbook movie history.
Ledger: *The dog who is rabid by nature and attacks anyone.* Phoenix: *The dog that was friendly but has contracted rabies and will attack if necessary.* Both were great in character.
I disagree. Phoenix is the dog who contracted rabies and will attack if necessary But ledger isn’t rabid. He is perfectly calm. He doesn’t bite, he dismantles. And we will never know why. Tell me, which scares you more?
Finally someone who agrees that one isn’t better than the other. They’re both amazingly interpreted in their own way because in general they’re both completely different interpretations.
joaquin is better actor you are correct that is the reason he has upper hand in playing joker whereas heath ledger prior to dark knight wasn’t established or known much so understand kind of level heath has put out on to play joker which set benchmark for joaquin P S : 10 things i hate about you tht movie heath ledger has established he is a class austrailian actor
Lord Death Fetus that is how I feel too, both Heath Ledger and Joaquin Phoenix did an amazing job with the character in two very different ways which is why I can’t pick a favorite Joker between the two.
artorius julius that implies that heath was worse. He played his movie’s joker perfectly, as did joaquin. It’s not about who acted their part better, just which part you liked more.
Dávid Dolnics wait other scene says “what do you get when your cross a mentally ill loner with a society that treats him like trash, up tell you what you get and you get what you f*cking deserve!”
Both Ledger and Phoenix did a phenomenal job acting wise, but I love going on this dark journey with Phoenix seeing this broken man slowly descending into madnes and finally embracing his Joker personality towards the end was badass in my opinion!
He laughed naturally several time. The most memorable one is when he saw his clip on Murray show in hospital.. He genuinely find it funny and laugh naturally.
Jeremiah .A unfortunately Jared Leto’s Joker was most a victim of the script. Leto is a good actor and just played the rendition of the character he was given to the best of his ability. When I watch suicide squad I don’t see bad acting in Joker, I see a bad Joker. Written terribly, horrible gimmicks, overly materialistic. And to that point, Leto played him well. He just played a very bad joker.
No one took him seriously until the exact moment he pulled the trigger. Even when he was screamed at the top of his lungs, Murray was interupting him saying call the police. That the point of this whole scene, that's the pont of that smile after he kills him. He does exist and people will notice.
@@skeletor2118 I get what your saying but please don't try to justify or even play down what the Joker did. That was a key part of the movie, they never tried to make the audience sympathize with the murders. Sympathy was there for him in the beginning of the movie when he was innocent, but once he went down that path, there should be none. For all the stuff he went through, there is NO excuse for his actions.
There's on thing you left out. The Phoenix joker is the birth of the persona. As the Ledger joker represents a completely seasoned character. He is himself for years, there's no twist inside his had. Happy is asleep for good. Loved the video!
Finally someone says it. That's why I hate when people compare the two in a negative way because one Joker is in his Prime(Heath's) and the other is just at the start(Phoenix's). They both nailed the character and the only reason why they feel so different is because Heath's is a Criminal Mastermind and Phoenix's Joker isn't. This video was great though!
@@rinzler8272 Phoenix wasn't playing the Joker at all. He had none of Jokers personality or backstory. He was about as close to being the Joker as Nicholson was, nah Nicholson was far closer. Phoenix did a good job acting out the character in the script, but that character wasn't the Joker. The Joker doesn't fall in love, the Joker died want some surrogate father. The whiny self pitying little bitch in that movie wasn't the Joker.
I remember when it was first announced that Joaquin was gonna play Joker and everyone was lambasting the decision saying that Heath is the only one that can do it. Now they’re all praising Joaquin and wanting a sequel, just goes to show you that just because a decision isn’t popular doesn’t mean it won’t work out.
I never thought Joaquin Phoenix was gonna be a Bad Joker I just was curious and hesitant on how a Joker Origin Story would work. This sold me and I hope this opens the Door for R Rated Character Driven Films My main Hope Is a Batman Under the Red Hood story that is Adapted and told correctly. I'd love a Wolverine origin that truly depicts the many tragedies,heartbreaks,murders,tortures,mental manipulation,And savage acts of cruelty he Is capable of.
A review of my 2 favorite Jokers of all time! Love this! And just like you said, there is no winner and no loser. These 2 Jokers voth deserve equal recognition! Beautifully explained and edited 👍🙏❤️
The scenes are palpable. You're IN THE SCENE. You forget you're watching a movie. Your in the moment with the actor. Feeling what he feels. I think anyway.
Matt Thornbury so true. Couldn’t breathe while watching the movie. That’s how intense it was for me. And not having to predict what Arthur’s gonna do next hooh
After Ledger I didn’t think we would see a joker compete with his. Then Phoenix came and did very well. Can you imagine if we see a joker better than both of them? Crazy to think about
I went through my days believing that Ledger's performance could never be topped. He was amazing. Then I saw Phoenix's performance. Gee whiz, he's beyond talented.
Both Jokers are literally at two different stages in who the character is. Just like how you were a different person 10 years ago the joker is the same. I think Phoenix did a great job in showing the breaking point of when the Joker becomes who he is. Heath Ledger's joker might be the best portrayal of a villain we've ever seen
No country for old men has a better villain who takes even less time explaining his villainy, imo. But Ledger's joker is still an insanely good character.
@@toplad8113 Hans Landa, Hannibal Lector, Darth Vader etc. are all great villains as well, this is why you'll find these characters in the top 10 best movie villains
Nope he didnt lose everything, he still had chance as comedian, he was trying to protect it all cost, it was last thing that kept him going. It was last straw for him and his dream being ridiculed in his face by his idol who most likely was closest to him after his mother. Imagine losing almost everything and getting spat on in from of everyone from ur idol. It was very good performance and great movie watched it with my brother and I got mixed feelings, this movie is not for mentally unstable kids or bullied kids, and from USA at that where school shootings are a thing. AFAIK almost every shooter was taking anti depressants so as for adults this movie is great value but for kids that watch this I dont think so.
No, losing everything can make you a better person, that's for good people, evil people do take the evil from harsh situations, but it's pretty much a destiny already written down, if you read the stories in the Bible, there must exist the opposition to the good guys, the darkness for the light to shine bright
I agree on dark knight being a villain but as for Joaquin Phoenix seems a little forced. His version of the joker is mentally challenged which I don't see sign of intelligence as for wiki's bio on the joker. He does a little dance and has looters/rioters cheer him on as prop pieces which seems forced.
Great video. As an avid Joker fan since the 70s, your assertion that the character can be many different types of villain is spot on. Nothing makes sense when you talk about Joker, he is chaos absolute and has no limits or boundaries or rules. It’s not a single character, it’s a comment on the human condition - the collapse of a humans ability to make sense in a chaotic universe.
Silver Pizza but remember that jokers origin, was from the red hood, who had a bad day, was thrown into a puddle of what LOOKED like water and that’s how the Joker was made. So technically, the Joaquin Phoenix movie is all just a remake of the killing joke book.
I always took it as a purposeful exaggeration of the most famous line in Jerry Maguire. I guess it can be taken both ways, but the audience laughed at this line in the theatre (the one I was in).
"I'm a dog chasing a car, I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it!" I know the conversation is with Harvey Dent and isn't with Batman, but still my favorite Joker line.
When the movie was announced, I thought was going to be a bad non-canon movie like Venom. But, when I saw it, I got baffled by the quality of it. It's like, just in the dark knight, the actor was made for that role. The uncontrollable laugh, the general attitude, but also the so well written script, the poor guy slowling shifting into madness is so well executed I got blown away. That movie would've blown away all my expectation even if I had some in the beginning. We must keep him for future movies involving the joker !
Essenel Joaquin’s Joker, for the first time in a long time I left the theater with a sense of true satisfaction, because I knew I had just witnessed a masterpiece. An outstanding script coupled with an actor who almost felt made for the role truly elevated it to something very special. I think it’s definitely going to be considered an all time classic as the year go on.
The difference is Venom was always meant to be a non-canon cash grab starring a character Sony owned. The Joker was a movie built around the modern day world where Warner Brothers went "Hey we also have a clown so make him the character" much like Nintendo did with Starfox Adventures on the gamecube only less shitty.
I always feel that Phoenix probably took the role because the script was portraying a completely different Joker i.e. not the enemy of Batman. Because otherwise who of that calibre would want to step through the shadow of Ledger? Both absolutely masterful performances, Joker being a much more difficult movie to watch than The Dark Knight.
@@stabaseball3336 and yet there are people like Leo Dicaprio with amazing talent that didn't end up winning in a specific year because someone else made the audience or at least the judges feel different. That same performance in a different year could have won in comparison to others. It's all relative.
Watching Joker wasn’t entertaining it was an experience I could feel chills in my body and my heart was beating and my face was in awed I’m glad to have watched something that will go down in Movie History that won’t be forgotten
I get it. I saw it at the cinema and recommended it to everyone. I would not watch it again, it's not something meant to entertain in the back while you do something else. If I ever watch it again it will be to show it to someone. Once was enough, it cuts a little deep.
Plasma Pro no I’d say that it was both actually. It’s entertaining because of how intense it is. I’ve watched it two to three times this week because of how entertaining and mind blowing it is
@@laurocoman I agree, My grandson saw it, ( I had seen the previews and it definitely grabbed my attention). It definitely held a much deeper and physcological meaning behind the "make up and costumes ". My grandson explained it perfectly.....It just goes to show that people who are a "little different " or don't fit into societies definition of ""what's normal or acceptable, can be pushed over the edge. A clear case of mental illness ( which definitely needs more funding and resources). BULLYING is also at the very core of this, help is needed not ridicule !
This is an Oscar winning RUclips video. Enjoyed very very much. I love these too movies and the joker role has always been such a interesting conversation to me. I love the joker and I love how these incredible actors put that character to life it’s amazing. And this video was fascinating to watch, hearing all this talk about it is truly amazing.
RUclips MUTED A SEEMINGLY RANDOM SIX SECONDS OF AUDIO AT ONE POINT IN THE VIDEO, IRONICALLY, IT WAS SIX SECONDS THAT ACTUALLY WERENT NEEDED AS THE POINT BEING MADE WAS VISUAL, BUT IF YOURE WONDERING WHERE THOSE SIX SECONDS WENT, IT WAS RUclips.
A FEW IMPORTANT THINGS: 1) This video is strictly in reference to the "Best Actor" categories!
2) I wanted to try something new with framing hence the widescreen format!
3) Obviously spoilers for Dark Knight and Joker!
i dont think you could have put the spoiler warning any further down on youtube
MrWabbleWabble Honestly, I feel as though anyone that clicks on a video breaking down a movie and a scene, should expect that scene to be spoiled for them. Especially when the title is “this is what x scene is”. I put it here because more people interact with the comment section than the description! Hope that explains it!
The batman trilogy by Nolan. Those are the best superhero movies ever made, even the last one. Marvel's reliance on spectacle over storytelling and depth is a great disadvantage, they have more human characters. It is telling that DC, apart from when they do really dark portraits of their heroes fail at making any sensible movies. They have problematic characters to develop for movies, predictable and overpowered.
@@Nerdstalgic Love the new aspect ratio my dude.
Anyone complaining about spoilers on this vid is dumb af I agree, I just saw that and I thought it was awesome haha love the vids 🖤🖤
The most intense scene for me was when Gus the dwarf was going to open the door but the lock was too high up for him
Black comedy at its finest.
I was scared that Arthur will kill him.
Doge van Wowe Exactly...Props to the director for creating suspense on par with even some of the best horror films.
That was the only intense scene.
thought i was the only person that had this feeling. after gus left i was like, hmm joker, got heart anyway.
They both performed their versions so damn perfectly.
That’s so damn true
Heath's character is better he is chaos even the antagonists fear him, where as the new one is like a mad person, it's not scary. It is bad.
@@jonybhai8306 I respect your opinion, but you're more referring to the writing in your comment than the acting
@Dylan Gallardo I understand that argument, but my point was that guy, with his original comment, wasn’t critiquing the acting, but the writing
Heath did good but y’all are SMOKING if you think his acting was better
When Arthur became the Joker his laughter stop being painful to him, instead he embraced it
It’s painful to hide your true self
I don’t get it
Coach Simp when arthur was just arthur his uncontrollable laughing condition was painful to him because it made him stand out in a bad way but when he becomes the joker he embraces the laughing because as the joker he already stands out so the laugh helps emphasize that
Coach Simp laughing out of nowhere in every situation is obviously not “normal” so arthur couldn’t fit in even when laughter is a pleasing action.
As the Joker he embraced it and decided to enjoy all of it as he does not seek or want to fit in anymore.
I hate the fact that he had to embrace it. The psychiatrist who was so weary with so many patients was a spark. The ridicule from his hero, his mother's revelation about his "father" along with the fact that she was mentally ill...
Mental illness is real and terrible.
I like the fact that the Joker himself is so complex that two actors (Ledger and Phoenix) delivered completely different roles, but they still fit the character perfectly.
And still there are few other versions of joker. I can't think of any other character to have so many interpretations and all of them working
There is no joker that's act like Phoenix
@@johnnybeatmaker330 phoenix's joker acts like phoenix. Joker isnt fully represented by any single joker.
The way Joaquins voice trembles like he’s going to burst in tears when he compares the three boys deaths to his own was impeccable. Phoenix really put his heart into Joker.
For me that is one of the best scene in cinematic history. Phoenix's dailogue delivery , his eyes, his posture , body moment , trembles in his voice makes that scene so emotionally potent , it just strikes audiences nervous cord sending shimmers thru their body.
In “cinematic history”? lol compared to what? You haven’t seen much “cinematic history”, apparently lol
@@drrightwing4435 a
I agree, tad overly dramatic statement. Think that Joker movie hypnotised a lot of people, at best it's alright, think its cuz we've had a pants selection of strong movies in the last few years
@@drrightwing4435 If he says he thinks its the best scene in cinematic history, he clearly means compared to *anything* that went before it. I'd have thought that was obvious, no?
"If it was me laying on the ground, you'd walk all over me" ! REALEST line Ever spoken in a Movie 💯💯💯
The two scariest things to exist are a man so vulnerable that he has nothing left to lose and a man so invulnerable that there is no way to take anything from him. Someway, somehow, these two actors managed to play the “same” character while being complete opposites, yet equally terrifying. Truly magnificent.
You hit the nail right on the Head .
It feels like a parallel Universe happening simultaneously !!
The most dangerous thing in the world, is a man with nothing to lose
Andrew Burman you couldn’t of said it any better
It’s chilling how accurate that statement is
an unstoppable force and an unmovable object
It’s fun to see a video that isn’t about “which joker is better” and instead about how they are both great.
Then you scroll down to the comments...🙁
Ledger fans are so self conscious they cannot acknowledge a better performance or a more accurate portrayal! Anarchist clown
Filthy Skrib Both are amazing my dude. It’s not all about “comic accuracy.” You have your preference and that’s okay. Ledger reinvented the character, taking inspirations from Jokers comic book origin and making something that would better fit the Gotham that had been portrayed in that series. Phoenix did the same, fitting Joker into a character that fit the Gotham portrayed in that movie. People will always have their preference, I personally like Ledgers Joker a lot just because I have a lot of memories with The Dark Night and also I respect just how much he put into that role. But saying that doesn’t diminish the fact the Phoenix also put a lot into the role and also deserves an oscar.
@@tobyriecke3972 why adapt a character if you dont want to use the character? Arthur Fleck is a fantastic Joker, truly! But Ledger was...there is already a character that fits his exact M.O in Gotham. Pretty sure he is straight up called Anarchist.
Imagine Batman who fought crime not because his parents died but rather, he was bullied in school and his parents help him to become a superhero! That's just as equal to the change in Joker for TDK. Not the same character.
Let's forgive and forget inaccuracy in favor of real criticism...the Joker design was edgy YIKES af! Some of the cringiest cosplay I have ever seen, truly...and that's a fucking actor being paid to play the role. I remember how nobody gave a flying fuck about Ledger until he died, which is god damn hilarious! The only reason he is revered is because he died and that somehow makes him a great actor...anyone else could have done the role, and it likely would have been better honestly. Or maybe if the script wasnt so close to a shadow the hedgehog fan fiction. I was embarrassed watching the movie with my parents and I was a child...what a pathetic Joker laugh, and not to mention that annoying af voice.
The same people who commend Ledger likely feel nothing but positive nostalgia for Tim Burton's Batman despite it being the farthest thing from Batman in any form of media. Straight up directed by a man who vowed never to read a comic, as well as taunting those who do...then again that's why he turned a great character into a pathetic romantic cliche
Filthy Skrib No just no u tried it , the joker design in the dark knight was terrifying af and u are wrong when u say “ no one gave a flying fuck about ledger until he died “ Photos came out revealing what he looked like and people loved it and that’s when he was alive. If u honestly think that Joaquins joker makeup is terrrifying or better than u are batshit crazy and I won’t even comment back to whatever ur reply is gonna be . U gotta be absolutely fucking out of ur mind if u think the jokers voice in the dark knight is annoying and then listen to Arthur in his voice say shit like “ I pass u every day on the street and u don’t notice me “ or “ they think we’ll just take it like good little boys “. No u are wrong about heath fans that don’t accept when someone is better cuz the truth is there hasn’t been anything better, the closest thing that came to the insane and terrifying joker in the dark knight was Cameron Monaghan in that first scene in Gotham when he revealed he killed his mom . The joker portrayed in this film doesn’t suck but it for sure doesn’t compete with heaths joker and Joaquin is better as Arthur than he is joker and the transition of the character is what made the film work. He isn’t terrifying at all his make up isn’t chilling at all his voice is weird af and sounds like a female. One thing I’ve seen about heath ledger haters is that they will say or do anything to knock it down and say the dumbest most lamest shit to back it up, Joaquins joker again doesn’t suck it works for the movie and there still a lot that we have to see, let’s say for arguments sake that the joker we got in the film will be the same portrayal we would get if they made sequels then it definelty makes no match to heaths joker in the slightest and that’s not to say that he sucks it just means that it’s not better
how he acts right after shooting murray to me is the best acting of the movie. The shaking and smiling stare he has after.. followed by dancing. It’s amazing
It's such a great representation of manic energy.
Yes! And the way he stands up and sort of doesn't know what to do with himself, before he shoots "Mur-RAY" again. Pure madman. Just the way Joaquin moves his body throughout the movie... the walk, the dance, the way he clutches his throat/chest when he goes into his laughing fits... Incredible performance.
It’s like in those moments, he is getting more and more comfortable with what he has become. It unnerves him, but he realizes in those moments he has taken the plunge… and may as well embrace it fully.
The bouncing leg is everything.
I’m not good at analysing film or explaining precisely what makes a movie/scene good but those moments hit me hard, the eyes of both those jokers told you everything.
MetaBrownie hi, sorry I don’t know who you are via your user name. Were do I know you from friend?
It's true what Shakespeare said, "The eyes are the window to the soul".👀
I imagine Phoenix in Arkham cutting his mouth so he always has a smile on his face.
@@chronicbullets6751 In the original script Arthur has scars at the edges of his mouth from the start of the movie and at the end when he's standing on the car he uses a piece of glass to cut them open again.
Just get High
i love how when Joaquin’s Joker approaches the camera after killing Murray, the lighting makes his suit look purple. Classic joker look
I love you for noticing that. No one else has mentioned it. Every time there was a blue light on the suit it turned it purple. From the living room dance with his mother, the behind the curtain and looking into the camera all gave us the purple suit. Great eye.
Yay, I'm glad someone else noticed this! I've been saying this around for quite a while; at least twice here at RUclips.
@@Griwhoolda Only true fans will notice that.
Plus for the people looking, it is a perfect blend of comic book Joker and animated series Joker. Comic book Joker would make the shot then just sit there laughing or maybe dancing in place and laughing but Joker from the animated series would walk to the camera, move the camera, HELL, DANCE with the camera like they are in a waltz.
I agreed.
What my take is,. Heath's joker is about what joker is
Where Joaquin's is about why joker is....
The most accurate comment I've seen till now
This. 👌
Yes Indeed
But nobody asks HOW the Joker is
@@VVeremoose that's what joker as a whole is about? That is what the irony is.we so called civilised people don't care a dime about anyone else. So when the chip turns we will kill each other. No body would ask how everyone is doing?
We don't deserve saving. We deserve punishment. Because our society is nothing but a joke. A joke put on like a mask of civilization and we boast about it.
The best part about their performances was that they took 2 different approaches to the character but both approaches ARE the Joker. That's why there is no winner because they both hit the character of the Joker perfectly.
@@RandoLePerson No, Nicholson didn't. Sorry, but look at the way the Joker uses his body to talk.. Jack didnt do that at all.. Maybe 1 time the whole movie.. The charisma of the Joker is not in Jack Nicholsons performace at all.
@@Iamaskier08 No one is talking about that movie.
Yes this! One was the birth of the Joker, the other is Joker coming into his own and toying with this new plaything!
Debatable
Both are super deep into their characters. But Jared Leto's joker is crap and shallow.
The Joaquin Phoenix joker scene when he was on the Murray show was really incredible in theaters. I really felt like I had just witnessed a murder. That’s another level of immersion.
Right?! It was freaky!
@@cockus123 no
That's the thing though these days ......Horrific mass murders/murders being played out in real life.
You just never know what's ticking over in some people's minds !. I find that extremely sad, and also that the resources and funding are just so stretched to the limit , atrocities can happen so frequently.
@@cockus123 what a dumb comment lol, what is this alpha beta bullshit?
@@Beatumpop I'm dying he said Alpha beta incel all in one sentence 😂😂
I think Joaquin's Oscar moment began when Arthur starts laughing uncontrollably, then you realize he's choking on tears and can't stop laughing. At first everyone in the audience started chuckling along, I was too. Then it got uncomfortable. Then I was wincing in pain, it was cringe but the very worst kind of cringe, a horror moment. His eyes! His body contortions! I don't know what Joaquin had to draw on to accomplish that horror each time he launched into a fit of laughing/choking.
He watched videos of people with PBA.
So true, like you feel so bad for him knowing he can't help it.
I felt exactly the same thing!!!!!! I really think he deserves the oscar.
Spot on, and so many other scenes, like the dark scene where he kills his friend in front of Gary, the dance, the report he reads on the stairs.....and on and on
I got choked up with that scene, you can see he was scared and couldn't control his laughter. Just one of the many great scenes from the movie.
Imagine the pressure getting an offer to play as Joker
Fr, cant be me
Hmmmm
Such roles are only offered to a select few who can handle it.
@@bluebutterfly51 Unless we are talking about Leto
@@luke5930 he didn't even do a bad performance, his character was just horribly writen from the start
10/10 for both actors objectively, subjectively though; Phoenix’s joker just moved me emotionally far more.
I disagree despite having the same reason as you. Heath ledgers joker was more emotionally moving. Sure, Joaquin’s performance is gritty and savagely depressing. It’s incredible without a doubt. But Heath ledgers joker is one of very very few characters that made me feel true fear. To me, ledgers joker is a more terrifying look at insanity than even Hannibal Lecter because Lecters insanity is built in. It was always there and you can just chalk it up to a fault in his brain making him think differently. But Ledgers joker is justified. He never says why, in fact he lies about his reasons 3 times when he tells people about his scars, but the knowledge that he became insane instead of starting that way is deeply uncomfortable. We know that there is a path to his insanity, but we’ll never know what it is, or even if we are on the same path. Simply put, Joaquin’s joker makes me sympathise with what Arthur had become, but Ledger made me fear what I could become. The idea that a human can turn into that under the wrong circumstances is far more terrifying than any horror I can dream of.
@@galaxybrain_658 in case nobody else sees this, know that I did and really appreciated it. Very interesting perspective
I think that was the point of that movie, though. Phoenix's Joker was meant to show a person, a person who lives in the real world and how real a potential it is to descend into madness. Heath's Joker was meant to show a character, a role in a story whose characteristics were already developed and firmly established. Phoenix showed the Joker was once a human being. Heath showed Joker as a fully mature monster.
The reason Phoenix's Joker has a more emotional effect is because 'normal' people are made aware of how close they might be to madness, that though just enough misfortunes, they, too, might become dangerous. But it's much more difficult for the average person to envision themselves becoming the highly calculated, manic, full-time agent of chaos that Heath showed. The Joker was such a memorable movie because it was a reflection of the fear and anxiety that exists in much of our modern society. Heath's Joker was an entertainment product, an extremely-well crafted and acted persona of a comic book villain.
@@galaxybrain_658 Funny, I had the inverse take away from each performance. Seeing what Heath's Joker became didn't inspire fear in me, because characters like his aren't real. But seeing a fragile human being go through the process of repeated neglect and ultimate descent into madness and violence through Phoenix's performance, did. Phoenix's performance showed the process, how relatable it can be, and how it's not out of the question that someone whose relatively normal today can completely lose it eventually. The humanity of his performance was much more relevant and much more unsettling.
Heath's performance was masterful, but it's extremely difficult to imagine oneself becoming that calculated for the sole purpose of creating chaos. Real world psychopaths and sociopaths operate at much smaller scales than trying to throw an entire city into anarchic chaos through elaborate plans. The sort of folks who specialize in sewing instability, chaos, and division in the real world wear suites and ties and walk the halls of ornate buildings and behind doors with lots of security. They're not manic clowns roaming free.
i may have missed something in dark knight... how do we know he wasnt always crazy? we never saw him before he was crazy, as far as we know he was always crazy?@@galaxybrain_658
Could you imagine how terrifying it would be if you were beating the crap out of somebody and then they just start laughing at you
We called it the early 90s my guy. XD
@@Phil.Anthropy yeah. the early 90's in boston for sure.
@@christineshepherd4376 No doubt with those lads. Then came straight edge XD hahaha
@@Phil.Anthropy no, that would be if a normal human beats somebody and he starts to laugh but now imagine someone like batman who is stronger than 600 men according to his master beats somebody and he just laughs
@@ssjkaryuusennin ........
.....sure thing!!
Joker shooting Murray feels like one of the only times in a movie where a gun shot startled me. Not cuz it was loud or surprising that Murray got shot, but because of the build up of all elements leading to such a shocking moment
I remember audibly shouting out "Hollllyyyy shit!" when he shot him. Such a great build
I never saw it as shocking because anyone could sniff what was going to happen from the start of the movie
That's because that scene is similarly structured to Taxi Driver (SPOILER)
when Travis shoots Sport on the stoop. It is filmed so matter of fact after Travis ask a bunch of odd questions and acts kind of nerdy.
Then all of a sudden he just blast dude point blank in the stomach.
Definitely a trait borrowed from Scorsese. People complained that it was too violent, but it treated violence the way it should be treated. It's the movie's where people drop like flies that are desensitizing.
Nate Foote it’s not even violent, even compared to other r rated comic book films. The one truly violent scene that matched the tone people were giving the film was the scissor scene
People overhyped the fuck out of this movie. It made the experience dull for me.
You want violence, read the comic book. That joker would have thumbed the bullet hole of Murray’s head and danced with his jangling corpse
I wish Heath was around to watch Joaquin's performance, I guess he would have loved it.
I think if he was around he would have been the one performing it.
@@cuurrrtis He was fabulous don't get me wrong.. Joaquin was born to play Joker in this particular movie. Both movie Icons.
Nova Chandra What does that even mean "He was born to play this role." Wtf??? What makes you say that, I'm genuinely confused.
@@MonkeyDIvan I didn't mean that literally Monkey.. I just meant in this movie he made Joker his own. It's just an expression.
"My definition of "born to play" is that when I think of a character or a genre of movie that persons face should appear in my mind." (Quara)
As did Heath in his. They both owned their parts. Iconic roles..
@@MonkeyDIvan
Have you really never heard that expression before?
I think it's a testament to Heath Ledger that the role has become Shakespearean. A character that great actors can project so much into.
When Phoenix does that laugh/cry as he says "I know" to Murray, I knew right there the dude was getting an Oscar nom. That acting there was brilliant.
i know his acting is phenominal
@@TiffanyRay And it's not even his best performance.
Cringy moment
@@JH0207 This one was pitiful and really overly praised. That scene had a bad dialogue. Movies such as The Master deserve more praise than this overhyped flawed movie.
Quintessential acting moment, right there. I wouldn't be surprised if THAT scene is the clip they play when introducing the Best Actor Nominees at the ceremony!🏆
A child that is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth.
-African Proverb
That's a really good one! And with some real truth value.
Ur an awesome artist man I'm a huge fan!!! Glad to see u embracing the technological age;) hope u can read this
Explain naruto then
-Uchiha Sasuke
STEVIE2TIMEZ He has teacher Iruka and his friends.
The reason why heath ledger's joker is more controlled is because he has already been through his journey and he is a fully realized joker. Joaquin's joker is the one going through all the ups and downs of becoming the character he is, the instability. And those are both difficult beautiful sides of a character to do
Commending Joaquin's performance, it would have been interesting to see Heath play the less nuanced version of the joker he originally acted instead.
Nicole is a cutie
@@Chris-rg6nm Joker is not really too different the more i watch it the more comic book vibe i get from it
I agree !
I'd like to think heath legders joker was a kid around the time fleck went nuts and thats what influenced him for the dark knight, he did say he wanted chaos.
The fact that very few people can choose a favourite between these two portrayals of The Joker speaks volumes about what the actors individually brought to the table.
Two outstanding performances that are already fully embedded in the cultural landscape. It is fitting that the "definitive" Joker is actually two individuals.
Ledger for me. I did not care for Joker at all.
Exactly they are both perfect displays of joker neither is better than the other they are both perfect jokers
Younger audiences choose Heath, while mature audiences choose Joaquin.
The Joker like many people, is a fluid character that develops and grows. That's why both are so good despite going for different things.
@@wet-readthat’s fine, I personally choose Joaquin. I like gritty, sad and painful characters. Joaquin delivers a perfect example of what I feel the joker in this world is.
The whole movie is literally his Oscar moment
Agreed!!
Which actor are you talking about?
@@jahyamack8359 Joaquin Phoenix! I think he’s the best actor I’ve ever seen. He is absolutely amazing and makes me feel what he’s feeling as well as being able to convey how Arthur feels with the music in his head and his eyes tell so much of a story that when he was “laughing “ you could see that he was in true pain, I could write a whole essay on his performance
No chance
@@Asm920 Well seeing as your talking about Joaquin, I 100% agree.
At no part of the movie did it feel like he was acting, the entire time my thoughts were just “oh no, what’s he gonna do to him” or “why would they say that?, Arthur’s done nothing wrong”.
And, like you said, that laugh was incredible!, it made me sorta tug/rub at my own throat due to how well he showed the pain.
Gotta give credit to the extra’s too, they were convincing as f~ck.
When Joaquin says "you're awful, Murray," the look in his eyes can only be described as pure hatred. It opens Arthur up emotionally in such an honest way that you can't help but feel his hatred for Murray because Arthur looked up to him but Murray embarrassed him publicly.
i wouldnt say pure 'hatred', but pure emotion. he was spilling his guts, not sugar coating anything.
@@sMASHsound Yeah, hate isn't an emotion that just pops up, it's something that is born through anger and spite, maybe some jealousy/envy sprinkled in. Hate takes time to be born from true raw emotions. He was angry, wounded and felt as if he had something important to him ripped away unceremoniously. Those things were conveyed in a span of 3-4 seconds of facial expression.
Also, Joaquin's 911 call to save his brother, River Phoenix, from dying of an overdose outside of a nightclub was leaked to the press for their entertainment. His brother died and the whole world got to watch it on access Hollywood. That had to contribute to this
plus Murray IS awful - he's an exploitative sociopath who earns a living laughing at the expense of others, and what he says to Arthur privately and publicly are inconsistent; Murray is a showbiz liar, emblematic of everything wrong in bling capitalism. What a line.
Absolute rage. Definitely. I feel that because I know that shit is real. It really happens.
The look Phoenix gave when he said, “you’re awful Murray.” Was the look of someone who made up their mind of what they’re going to do.
And Murray, so caught up in his own importance that he completely missed the danger signals. DeNiro's performance doesn't get mentioned but it was a brilliant portrayal of a douchebag.
That's like the look you give a bully before you finally nail him.
"why did you kill those boys"
"they were awful"
"you're awful, murray"
foreshadowing just minutes away
Zenith Tempest John Tron: 2 KIDS GON’ DIE TONIGHT!
I really don’t get why anybody was surprised by this? The movie telegraphs just about everything in very obvious ways.
When I watch the Dark Knight I feel like I'm literally reading the comics. Heath Ledgers portrayal of the joker is just flawless.
After Joker kills Murray he begins to walk away as if he was showing concern or regret, then he does his clown dance and goes back to The Joker. I like that part.
That's where the movie should have ended.
Kyle Sadler and not show the breakout scene? That’s the icing on the cake. Can’t leave that out
@@mellogan6796 if it ends at the dance scene he doesn't need to break out.
Kyle Sadler if he didn’t kill Murray he wouldn’t need to dance.
He didn't show concern or regret, the Joker is totally a psychopath. If it was showing something it's definitely neither of those two
The thing that I loved so much about Joker is that I could understand everything that Arthur did, everyone he killed, he did it because they wronged him, and it didn’t feel like a movie, it was like watching someone’s life.
I agree with you , it made me adapt Arthur’s Life and how he led up to become Joker.
i am obsessed with this movie,because this movie is a horror movie,the perfect horror movie
because usualy a villain is distant, even if its relatable is from something, from a part of it, but the joker, its most of us
he is human, he is a full psicopat on its best encarnation, the scary part is that the audience even for a second...fully conect to him, the audience recognize the joker on his madnness, in every aspect of it, and on his expressionn, body languaje, even reaction, we understand him,but not understand what he is doing, you become scared of yourself for connecting to him, for understanding something that you everyday saw on television as another crazy guy
some people after seing this movie, start berraving as joker, because they realized that....they started felling like him
@@daveurban2011 You right that you're obsessed with this movie, mate, take a breather.
Dream SMP be like
@@daveurban2011 Sweet heavens some typos was kicking at my brain trying correct them but man do I want to kiss you for typing all this out because that was the crisis I had after watching the movie, how much empathy I felt for his character.
“You’re awful, Murray”....THAT is the MOMENT!!👏🏻The sneer is everything.👌🏻
Off topic:
Heath ledger (rapist) originally committed suicide. Whining Batman fans had to beg higher officials to alter the reason to OD'ed.
Joaquin phoenix is genuine winner.
@@ashokkumarganesan3927 Um what???
@@ashokkumarganesan3927 i...pls explain
@@ashokkumarganesan3927 what XD
@@ashokkumarganesan3927 Why is this a reply to the OP..... Tf LOL
Joaquin is an amazing actor. I still remember his performance in Gladiator as one of the best bad guy acting performances ever
I will go to the end of time saying that he should have won for Gladiator.
I love how every study of joker includes a little snippet about how Jared Leto's failed
Jared Leto was still a winner tho he put work into it and crap the thug joker could have very easily become a hit if the movie was actually good
@@delteriboh44 "All that chit chats gonna get you hurt" "The fire in my loin! The itch in my crotch!" "Hunkahunka" Yeah the script could have been better hahahaha
It really was an insulting role and I’ve never even watched the movie
Jered leto's joker reminded me too much of a white guy who joined a Latino prison gang
Can we respect the actors, please. He did his best.
The problem with playing the Joker is that it requires a proper balance of giving the character humanity and madness. If not done correctly, the character becomes too much like a caricature .
Aka Jared Leto
@@SherooDeen you dont want no beef?
are you some kind of HUNKA HUNKA?!
Just @ Jared next time
Or if not done correctly with proper self control, could lead to the actors downfall, like what happened to heath ledger.
Heath Ledger: A very effective and scary Joker because we don't know anything about his character. We don't understand how he became this way or why he's doing this, which makes a very inhuman villain. The fact that we can't relate to his character is what makes him terrifying.
Joaquin Phoenix: A very scay and effective Joker because we know to much about him. We do understand how he became this way and why he's doing this, which make him a very human villain. The fact that we can relate to his character is what makes him terrifying.
Ledger just wanted to watch the world burn
Underrated comment, this is brilliant
@Donald Piniach More like Chaotic Evil for Joaquin Phoenix. He lost all faith in people when he came to terms with his delusions and decided that he would make society pay for the cruelty shown to him
Well said
Exactly. When I saw the 2019 film, I was really struck by it because I realized that the Joker was anyone and everyone at the same time. It was a real performance. Very real.
Masterful performances. Particularly Phoenix's facial expressions and head and neck movements when he says he has nothing to lose. Riveting.
The moment Arthur turns into Joker is right after his voice cracks saying “I’ll tell you what you get”.
Y'know, something about the way it comes out makes me think 'That right there sounds exactly like a clown. An evil one in a realistic sense.'
Also when he talks into the camera after shooting Murray he definitely had a more joker-like voice. More sinister sounding
He had a split second after he said that to change his mind and his voice completely changed when he said the next line.
He becomes the Joker as soon as the curtain opens.
In my opinion He becomes the joker when the curtain is opening and he is dancing.
Joaquin Phoenix: *playing through the story, beating the game at the end.*
Heath Ledger: *has beaten that game and is playing in free roam.*
Jared Leto: Pays for microtransactional upgrades, still fails
I wish we could pretend that the Jared Leto joker never existed
@@Dedicated_Discipline758 You can. That's why it's called pretend.
@@Dedicated_Discipline758 or just imagine its the robin joker thats been portrayed in other bat media
EXACTLY! It cannot be overstated that they are playing the character at different times in its “life”
joaquin's acting was so good that it was really hard to watch the movie, like it felt so uncomfortable to watch, which goes to show how good the acting was
THIS!!! Mannnn… I was shook during, after, and days after I watched that movie for the first time.
The acting is great, but I thought the movie itself was a terrible Joker movie.
@@cctomcat321 honestly, i somewhat agree, i feel like the movie wasn't really focused on the idea of the joker, which isn't bad at all. it was a good movie and they just used the joker character as part of the story, so it wasn't really a joker movie per se.
@@apex_xd8907 exactly. People give me crap when I say that, but it's true. He's just... Not the Joker. This film would've been way better had it not relied on that premise. The Joker is calculating and a mad genius in his own rights. Arthur is just a sad, beaten up crazy dude looking for a hug. But that doesn't mean Pheonix did a bad job.
@@cctomcat321 That’s why I loved the movie so much. It was grounded in reality. I love when comic book characters get that treatment. I personally thought this was a great way to approach a character like the joker. The film is sad and grim and real (not literally real obviously, but people like him do exist). I loved it for the same reason I loved Logan. Gritty and real.
For me, the bathroom dance scene actually made him grab the Oscar. What a marvelous transition that was from Arthur to Joker. When I was watching that scene in the cinema hall, whole of the audience including me was stunned and absorbed in utter silence.
Joaquin is before the joker grows fully confident in his role, while Heath is the joker when he’s settled in the as the joker, able to be confident.
But then why doesnt phoenix joker has scars? Legders joker said he got them from his dad, soo
@@theamariefg they're not literally the same. One is just a younger less experienced version of the other, spiritually.
Thegame .Dev so the dad didnt give him his scars? Have my life been a lie, or am i just fucking dumb😂
Ivanliuks but The Oreo said that though, i think he kind of meant littlry, because the joker is the joker. Phoenix joker is not a new joker
@Kay A Exactly!!!! And don't forget that he's delusional.
My favorite thing about both jokers is that they feel like real people, they have an amount of insanity that is believable, one connects with you mentally, The other connects with you emotionally, I'm not good with words but that's kinda what i got watching them.
You are just fine with words. Continue on with less worry in that department.
Also, I liked your interpretation.
Off topic:
Heath ledger (rapist) originally committed suicide. Whining Batman fans had to beg higher officials to alter the reason to OD'ed.
Joaquin is genuine winner.
That's because they are people. In make up.
@@ashokkumarganesan3927 what are you talking about? he's never had any rape allegations against him, (i looked it up and nothing showed) and his cause of death was accidental drug overdose from prescription medication. i don't understand where you got that information from
@@carly7323 exactly
Joaquin's joker was scary in a creepy way
Heath's joker was scary in a intimidating way.
Edit: When I say scary, I mean someone that puts fear into someone. Would you sit next to someone that just stares at you and talks and threatens you and stay? Would you be calm with someone that is chasing you and light a city on fire to get rid of you?
Spot on
Idk I don't find Joaquins joker scary I feel empathy for him but with heaths joker I don't find him scary I find him interesting and want to know what he's hiding from us in the next few scenes
@@Raven-cf5qd I think people mean scary conceptually and not a horror movie kind of sense. Conceptually they both are scary but you have to imagine yourself being a party to the moment. Phoenix's joker is "scary" in a way where if you were sitting next to him conversing, you're just not certain what he is going to do because he is literally losing grip with reality and is relatively unpredictable because you don't really know what his truth is or what he even intends or wants to do about it. *Spoilers* like the scene where he stabs his co worker violently to death with a pair of scissors in front of his other co-worker, tells the other co-worker he won't hurt him because he likes him, but then proceeds to toy around with him a little. You would never really be certain if he is sincere or if he messing around with you before plunging some scissors in your neck. Ledgers joker is "scary" because you know he intends to create chaos, but you have an uncertainty about the scope, lethality, means by which he intends to do it, or why he even wants to in the first place. He is definitely psychotic, but he isn't crazy, or at least comes off pretty lucid, but nonetheless he wants chaos and he has already calculated his position so that by time you realize you are even playing chess, he is already lining up his winning move.
@Indigo yooo your comment is underrated fr
@Rei Ren I love the movie but this is spot on. The Joker name was used as a skin to a concoction of Scorsese templates to boost the movies popularity, and it worked brilliantly. Ledger had no weakness, nothing you could do to him to make him buckle, he wanted to watch the world burn and nothing was going to stop him. Don't get me wrong, Phoenix was fantastic as well but the 'Joker' theme just felt more to me like a cash grab. Two very different, very fantastic portrayals
Joaquin Phoenix entire role was an Oscar winning performance. Due to his continual conflict with mental illness throughout the entire movie. The writers of the joker pinpointed the effects of people with actual schizophrenia. The struggle of not being whole because of others and their effects on his own psychi. To kill what he believed made him incomplete. The movie is so deep. Yes heath ledger played a brilliant role of an angry bi polar joker. But Phoenix dived deep in the mind of a true schizophrenic. Joker transcended the story to bring reality to normal people about the effects of deep mental disability.
I have lived with someone with Schizophrenia..... this joker is nothing like the reality. Not even close. If this performance was suppose to be based on the "schizophrenia" aspect, they missed the mark by MILES....
And the performance was not that good....
But each to their own...
@@joseph9418 please give details? Very vague comment to make. I know first hand about schizophrenia. And there is many levels of it and many variations of schizophrenia. Phoenix was characterizing one aspect of schizophrenia. See I know your story is not true because your not even aware of the many different levels and types of schizophrenia.
@@greekperspective2076 thank you. Came here to say this. I grew up with a parent who had schizophrenia… there’s many different expressions, and you cant just say “ah yes, this one character captures the essence of schizophrenia” - particularly when the vast majority of people with schizophrenia are non-violent, that kind of statement does nothing but perpetuate harmful stereotypes. It’s a great movie, but let’s not pretend it’s anything close to a true story or a realistic portrayal of a particular illness.
the amount you know about Heath’s dedication to the role is really so little
The joker’s face after shooting Murray was one of the best acting I’ve seen, I thought you were going to talk about it.
The watery eyes. The legs shaking and then the smile and laugh. He goes perfectly from "Shit what have I done?" to "You know what? Screw it!"
@@chamoo232 Exactly!
That shit was fucken beautiful. Then the laugh .
matthew martin I think Heath and Joaquin should not be compared, the first reason is that it’s like comparing your children 😂 and the second reason is that even tho they’re playing the same character, one of them is a complete Joker, and the other one is Arthur transforming into the Joker, in other words they’re completely different.
@@chamoo232 wait he shoots Murray??
I loved the end scene in joker where he was in the asylum and he laughs while talking to the physiatrist and she asks him “what’s funny?” And he’s like “ I thought of a joke” and she says “can you tell me the joke?” And he says “you wouldn’t get it”. He finally accepts he thinks differently and that it’s okay.
... and then he kills her.
@@darthvader1793 ? Why fam
@@alanisjordy You just dont wanna know, duh
@@alanisjordy well, obviously he likes you lmao
He was laughing about Bruce Wayne losing his parents.
Yeah that was a good scene.
Joaquin: All I have are negative thoughts.
Jared: All I have are negative reviews.
Please stop criticising Jared. Its hurting my hand to like all the criticism
Omaregyh ngl you had me in the first half 😂
He did what the director said.
@@realGeezus that's the problem
Omaregyh he wasn’t that bad lol
It's always interesting to me is that every actor who has portrayed a cinematic, live-action Joker has won an Academy Award. All four of those actors are considered by their peers to be among the best, but damn it if Jared Leto (or maybe Suicide Squad) didn't screw the Joker up LOL
Leto is a great actor, WB completely ruined that movie.
@@alphaturtle3806 Well there are also the rumours about the things he did behind the scenes... Those aren't WB's fault
@@alphaturtle3806 That performance was overblown cringe. You can't blame anybody but Leto for the acting choices he made in that role. He took a shit script and then took an over dramatic, corny shit right on top of it. That's on him.
@@dani-ell-ah I was speaking on the diced up nature of the movie in reference.
All jokers have taken liberties towards the character. The difference is the freedom the director had in composing the film which was ruined from the beginning by “executives”
But to each their own
@@ak_nora Leto could have been popping a deadly amount of pills behind the scenes. Didn’t effect dark knight, right?
That moment with Murray in the end really stands out. Joker’s voice cracks and genuine emotion really comes through. It’s the last time Joker seems like a normal person that a lot of people would support/empathize with
Granted. He still has plenty of support after his final transformation, but you know what I mean
We finally hear joker give a genuine laugh in that scene too. Chills every time I see it
Agreed, Arthur/Joker FINALLY seems stable and balanced, before he completely descends into full blown madness, and embraces his villainous alter ego!😱😨
Yeah I feel you
He went from a man we can empathize with to a monster most vile.
Tbh i dont think anyone would empathize with this man simply because the focal point was one where youd sympathize and want to be this mans friend the reality is we have psychotic people such as this all around us and tends to end in the same way where you see someone kill another then dead but the truth is that his only friend was his mother.
the joker is now twice oscar winner.
Meanwhile Batman for best actor has 0. For supporting actor 0.
Warner Bros. knows we want a villain character study of Mr. Freeze.
I’m sorry but I would rather have a riddler
@Ragu inacan this
no way man😂😂😂
Tetris Eagle oh man do I want a riddler character study! Wonder who could play him really well...
The difference in each actor’s performance that you’re describing is vulnerability. Phoenix’s Joker felt vulnerable while Ledger’s version felt invincible.
But that also reflects what seems like a natural progression in which the Joker starts of vulnerable to empowered. Then, by the time Heath's joker comes around, he has become really invincible and confident!
Ledger's joker was about the joker being the joker, Phonenix's was about a man becoming the joker. I enjoyed both, but Phonenix's joker was more true to the comic lore as far as his overall outlook.
@@andyknolls8735 Funny how everyone says that about Ledger's version, too. So I guess they were both true to it in their own way of portraying him at different times.
I also thought both adhered to the comic books equally.
Very astute observation, seriously Thanks. You put into few words what many including myself were thinking and or feeling.
it just struck me watching this video, that Joaquin's version of the Joker really works as a prequel to Heath's. I just imagine that the Joker became so calm and collected by learning from Murray, a man he obsessed about for so long
Never realized how dumb Batman looks in a bright room
lol
Bale was a bad Batman. No emotional range, scruff voice like he's at a monster truck rally. Very uninteresting character.
@@samahnsoleimanian1756 Batman himself is a very uninteresting character unless you also portray him as a bit unhinged. Introduce that little bit of psychosis into his character and the possibilities open up.
Samahn Soleimanian voice was the best of any Batman and so was the suit, Batman isn’t an emotional character
😂🤣🤣🤣🤣
The similarities I've noticed
Joaquin's joker - "Do I look like a clown that could start a movement"
*starts a movement*
ledger's Joker - "Do I look like a guy with a plan?"
*plans everything to eliminate hope from gotham*
Omg you're right!
The art of misdirection
To be fair, there are things that can make you wonder if Arthur just imagined the entire thing or something... it might not even be his real name...
Same concept :)
Woah...similarities between Arthur fleck and joker?
For me, when Arthur does that balletic dance in the bathroom after killing those three guys on the subway is the moment I knew that this was truly masterful performance by Joaquin. It's absolutely chilling.
In the DVD they said that scene was going to be something like hiding the gun but then they thought, why would he worry about hiding a gun? He wasn't being rational. Then Joaquin ask to hear the score that was recorded for the scene and it inspired him to do exactly what he did in the scene.
He was doing tai chi, bro
@@floydsghost I read about that. It's amazing how he improvised that dance on the spot thus creating one of the most beautifully unsettling scenes in cinematic history.
Predictable scene.
@@CALIODD your cynicism is predictable.
"he is the joker"
Yeah, the thought literally didnt cross my mind until years after i saw the movie that someone was actually playing his character and it wasnt just the Joker
The overall point here is that monsters aren't born. They are made.
Will Olson best comment
However...they made themselves. Others have gone through the same and went the other way.
Thats the beauty and horror of life, Why is that i wonder the mind is such a mystery
@@derrickcox4233 bullshit... everyone has a limit and because one person came out on the other end doesn't mean that all of them can
Yeah that is obvious that's why I don't like this movie
When joaquin says " you are awful" his chin begins to shake in anger and fear
Oh...no that's not fear and anger is too small a word. That's rage.
@@Ylemonade XD XD
Joaquin
@@OoxB505 oops
Tis why he got the award
No, his whole plan was to kill himself. Which is exactly what he did. He killed everything in his life and that's what they teased he was going to do. He killed his career, he killed his family and friends, the only thing he had left to connect himself to Arthur was his father figure in Murray. By shooting Murray, he killed Arthur and completed the Joker, that's the joke, it's the punchline.
In a deck of cards the Joker is tossed aside usually, Murray was the king. The Joker beat the King.
LSD
Wow
I’m 14 and this is deep.
@ThoughtCrime as the Joker said, "Comedy is subjective."
You just don't get the joke.
@ThoughtCrime the joker is never funny, that's kind of the irony of the character. Ledger's joke wasn't funny either nor was he supposed to be.
Both Heath and Joaquin were amazing in these movies. A good actor can make you watch and watch and watch again a movie in a genre you previously thought you detested bc the performances pull you into the film. You can't get enough.
Everyone talking about the “you’re awful” scene, that little nod he gives idk it just adds to it
You’re*
Agreed man, it's like he's playing everything over in his head.
It's almost childlike
The best part imo was when he opened his book to tell a joke only to look down and see "I hope my death makes more cents than my life". It was at that exact moment that Arthur knew that he was not going to kill himself and instead, create and incite unrest and chaos.
the little nod while he's thinking "so you've chosen death"
Pretty sure Jared Leto regrets taking the joker role.
They lied to him and, if I may, I suggest u to go watch some of the unused scenes with where he gives more to the eye.
So much so he's playing a bat themed villain now
I don't think so. Every actor seems to try a different Joker. Arthur Fleck doesn't really feel like the true Joker. Great performance but really just a mental patient pushed too far. Jared's Joker didn't do it for me either but it was closer to the entitled, confident Joker we all know.
rxz4140 u feeling ok?? What joker do u know ever wear tattoos that said “damaged” and is shirtless? Joaquins joker shows joker slowly losing his mind.
@@rxz4140 must not have read the killing joke
I believe whatever doesn’t kill you simply makes you.... Stranger.
favorite part!
That line was stolen from aeon flux. "I am the edge!"
@@Monticello19 Not really, it was inspired from Nietzsche:
'That what does not kill us makes us stronger'.
@@genghiskhan7691 I am aware of the original quote. In the animated show Aeon Flux which came out in 1991 the main character changed it to "whatever doesn't kill you makes you stranger." Now it could have been two writers having the same idea, but I kind of doubt it.
@@Monticello19 Perhaps they took inspiration from both as TDK can also be viewed as philosophical film as well.
From the moment I seen Joaquin in Gladiator, he quickly became the best actor ever in my eyes.
That was another good performance.
"If you're insane, you're unpredictable. If you're unpredictable, you're never boring."
Mark Hamill
So basically, if you’re insane you’re an interesting person.
@@michaelscott3411 Kind of
Most of the best youtubers are insane, insaner than they look
Funny because Mark Hamill was a voice actor for the Joker
@@michaelscott3411 yeah. Good examples of that are Orihara Izaya, Oreki Hotarou, Hikigaya Hachiman
The Oscar was delivered to the right man tonight. Congrats to you Joaquin Phoenix.
Exactly!
For me, when the Joker sticks his head out of the police car like a mad dog (a dog chasing cars), that convinced me that it's not only one of the best movies, but also one of the best performances even given.
Ghaffar_KH Same.
The cinematography, color, lighting, etc. (the silence except for the high pitched, recurring "joker sound", Nolan excels at those) of that shot makes it probably the most iconic shot in comicbook movie history.
@@narcspector Most iconic shots in movie history*
Sticking his headout like a dog hyena? Hint animalistic nature of humans what he was trying to prove to Batman
@@thefallenonezz7540 Hyena are closer to felines, but I get your point.
Ledger: *The dog who is rabid by nature and attacks anyone.*
Phoenix: *The dog that was friendly but has contracted rabies and will attack if necessary.*
Both were great in character.
I disagree.
Phoenix is the dog who contracted rabies and will attack if necessary
But ledger isn’t rabid. He is perfectly calm. He doesn’t bite, he dismantles. And we will never know why.
Tell me, which scares you more?
Finally someone who agrees that one isn’t better than the other. They’re both amazingly interpreted in their own way because in general they’re both completely different interpretations.
Joaquin is the better actor, while Dark Knight was the better film overall imo.
joaquin is better actor you are correct that is the reason he has upper hand in playing joker whereas heath ledger prior to dark knight wasn’t established or known much so understand kind of level heath has put out on to play joker which set benchmark for joaquin
P S : 10 things i hate about you tht movie heath ledger has established he is a class austrailian actor
One better than the other?
That's like asking "Whose inner darkness is better than the other?"
Lord Death Fetus that is how I feel too, both Heath Ledger and Joaquin Phoenix did an amazing job with the character in two very different ways which is why I can’t pick a favorite Joker between the two.
artorius julius that implies that heath was worse. He played his movie’s joker perfectly, as did joaquin. It’s not about who acted their part better, just which part you liked more.
“It's not about money… it's about Murray getting what he f*cking deserves!"
Dávid Dolnics wait other scene says “what do you get when your cross a mentally ill loner with a society that treats him like trash, up tell you what you get and you get what you f*cking deserve!”
Canyon Crocker yeah well that’s what he was referencing..
"I'll tell you what you get...you get sent a message!"
You mean Muh-RAY
this scene is very disturbing to me. But the acting is GOOD.
*Oscars are for actors who lose themselves in a role so well, that we as the audience forget they aren't the character they are portraying.
Both Ledger and Phoenix did a phenomenal job acting wise, but I love going on this dark journey with Phoenix seeing this broken man slowly descending into madnes and finally embracing his Joker personality towards the end was badass in my opinion!
This scene is when Arthur Fleck actually laughs for the first time in the movie
You mean right at the end? 😅
Actually it's at the very end of the movie when he's in the hospital.
C.C.W no you arent getting it.
He laughed naturally several time.
The most memorable one is when he saw his clip on Murray show in hospital.. He genuinely find it funny and laugh naturally.
It’s the first time he’s felt comfortable in his own skin.
Wow seeing these two makes Jared’s joker an actual clown.
I think everyone agrees that he's the only one who fucked up.
Jeremiah .A unfortunately Jared Leto’s Joker was most a victim of the script. Leto is a good actor and just played the rendition of the character he was given to the best of his ability. When I watch suicide squad I don’t see bad acting in Joker, I see a bad Joker. Written terribly, horrible gimmicks, overly materialistic. And to that point, Leto played him well. He just played a very bad joker.
iT waS ThE wRiTiNg
Sandwich Sapphire i agree, people are wrong sayin’ “leto’s joker sucks”, when what they should say is “suicide squad joker sucks”
See .. The director approves behind the camera..... Its director fault
No one took him seriously until the exact moment he pulled the trigger. Even when he was screamed at the top of his lungs, Murray was interupting him saying call the police. That the point of this whole scene, that's the pont of that smile after he kills him. He does exist and people will notice.
@Leonardo Kwak
Okay, you try being in his situation. Plus, it's pretty much normal human nature to want some form of attention or appreciation.
@Leonardo Kwak well not really, we all need to be noticed and appreciated. It's part of our nature. If we get no love then we only know to have hate.
@@skeletor2118 I get what your saying but please don't try to justify or even play down what the Joker did. That was a key part of the movie, they never tried to make the audience sympathize with the murders. Sympathy was there for him in the beginning of the movie when he was innocent, but once he went down that path, there should be none. For all the stuff he went through, there is NO excuse for his actions.
If he wants to be taken seriously he shouldn't dress like a clown..
@@johnluca3865 you missed the point m8
What's important is how they both give you chills on playing a character as if they embody that villain. Masterful take on the Joker.
There's on thing you left out.
The Phoenix joker is the birth of the persona. As the Ledger joker represents a completely seasoned character. He is himself for years, there's no twist inside his had. Happy is asleep for good.
Loved the video!
Very well explained, I truly agree.
Finally someone says it. That's why I hate when people compare the two in a negative way because one Joker is in his Prime(Heath's) and the other is just at the start(Phoenix's). They both nailed the character and the only reason why they feel so different is because Heath's is a Criminal Mastermind and Phoenix's Joker isn't. This video was great though!
@@rinzler8272 Phoenix wasn't playing the Joker at all. He had none of Jokers personality or backstory. He was about as close to being the Joker as Nicholson was, nah Nicholson was far closer. Phoenix did a good job acting out the character in the script, but that character wasn't the Joker. The Joker doesn't fall in love, the Joker died want some surrogate father. The whiny self pitying little bitch in that movie wasn't the Joker.
@@bullmoose2700 you're pretty whiny tbh
@@placeholder6811 I'm not trying to play the Joker, and failing to understand the core of the character, but you do you.
Joaquin Phoenix's acting is flawless, you can actually feel his venegence, his eyes speaks volumes, ugh i love him
disagree and don’t think I’m the only one that actually thought his performance was underwhelming
@@shaunpoland5656 ? say why then
DC doesn't have their own studio like Marvel Studios
WB have to make them
How pathetic
@@shaunpoland5656 Name a good actor then. 🤨
@@seriousnesstv7902 Heath Ledger
I remember when it was first announced that Joaquin was gonna play Joker and everyone was lambasting the decision saying that Heath is the only one that can do it. Now they’re all praising Joaquin and wanting a sequel, just goes to show you that just because a decision isn’t popular doesn’t mean it won’t work out.
TheWompinator they said the same thing about Heath Ledger lol
It’s happening again in case of batman
It also happened to Michael Keaton as Batman back in the day.
TheWompinator I think they’re equal.
I never thought Joaquin Phoenix was gonna be a Bad Joker
I just was curious and hesitant on how a Joker Origin Story would work. This sold me and I hope this opens the Door for R Rated Character Driven Films
My main Hope Is a Batman Under the Red Hood story that is Adapted and told correctly.
I'd love a Wolverine origin that truly depicts the many tragedies,heartbreaks,murders,tortures,mental manipulation,And savage acts of cruelty he Is capable of.
A review of my 2 favorite Jokers of all time! Love this! And just like you said, there is no winner and no loser. These 2 Jokers voth deserve equal recognition! Beautifully explained and edited 👍🙏❤️
The scenes are palpable. You're IN THE SCENE. You forget you're watching a movie. Your in the moment with the actor. Feeling what he feels.
I think anyway.
Matt Thornbury so true. Couldn’t breathe while watching the movie. That’s how intense it was for me. And not having to predict what Arthur’s gonna do next hooh
aly nacario I forgot i wasn’t breathing while i watching the Murray Scene
Well, you know what they say. *"In every deck of cards there's always 2 jokers"* 🃏🃏
@@mallard. underrated asf comment
@@faizanzubair8977 overrated af comment
@@mallard. lol
Mine has 3, guess the suicide squad one is the forgotten one.
@@WolfieSKE Bootleg ass deck of cards.
After Ledger I didn’t think we would see a joker compete with his. Then Phoenix came and did very well. Can you imagine if we see a joker better than both of them? Crazy to think about
He did a great job… Heath put on one of the best performances in history
@@mopar_keys I think Joaquin made a MUCH better Joker..his acting was incredible.😉
@@shellwalsh3317 bro what? Much better? you trippin'
Nothing will ever be better than Heath Ledger's Joker.
@@antares8767 Not really.
I went through my days believing that Ledger's performance could never be topped. He was amazing.
Then I saw Phoenix's performance.
Gee whiz, he's beyond talented.
Ledgers was miles ahead
Both Jokers are literally at two different stages in who the character is. Just like how you were a different person 10 years ago the joker is the same. I think Phoenix did a great job in showing the breaking point of when the Joker becomes who he is. Heath Ledger's joker might be the best portrayal of a villain we've ever seen
No country for old men has a better villain who takes even less time explaining his villainy, imo. But Ledger's joker is still an insanely good character.
@@toplad8113 Hans Landa, Hannibal Lector, Darth Vader etc. are all great villains as well, this is why you'll find these characters in the top 10 best movie villains
Everyone to the Oscars if Joker doesn’t win a Oscar.
*“WHERE ARE THEY!!!”*
He should've come out to "that's life."
I swear to god if the joker doesn’t win a oscar....he’s gonna win it anyway I’m optimistic
The film deserves one award for Joaquin's performance and nothing more. Stop wanking off this sub-par film.
The only time no one cared is when Jared Leto plate em
his906 he won a golden globes nomination
Thank you for the interesting breakdown. I have respect for the incredible facial mobility and control these two actors have.
When you've lost everything you're free to do anything.
Nope he didnt lose everything, he still had chance as comedian, he was trying to protect it all cost, it was last thing that kept him going. It was last straw for him and his dream being ridiculed in his face by his idol who most likely was closest to him after his mother. Imagine losing almost everything and getting spat on in from of everyone from ur idol.
It was very good performance and great movie watched it with my brother and I got mixed feelings, this movie is not for mentally unstable kids or bullied kids, and from USA at that where school shootings are a thing.
AFAIK almost every shooter was taking anti depressants so as for adults this movie is great value but for kids that watch this I dont think so.
@@MrSaintVehementus ok BOOMER
@@svseducationalacademygvred5292 Lol.
No, losing everything can make you a better person, that's for good people, evil people do take the evil from harsh situations, but it's pretty much a destiny already written down, if you read the stories in the Bible, there must exist the opposition to the good guys, the darkness for the light to shine bright
@@MrSaintVehementus It's a quote from Fight Club
The dark knight joker is a villain
Joaquin Phoenix is a little too real cause it is showing what hypothetically can happen
Yeah, like, it's almost a documentary. Lol
Which is why there was such outrage when this movie came! People were too afraid to face reality!
I really don't doubt that something like in the movie happens...
I agree on dark knight being a villain but as for Joaquin Phoenix seems a little forced. His version of the joker is mentally challenged which I don't see sign of intelligence as for wiki's bio on the joker. He does a little dance and has looters/rioters cheer him on as prop pieces which seems forced.
@@IronMan-wz8dx That's the beauty of it. Arthur Fleck himself is an unreliable narrator. The scenes that unfolded may only happened in his head.
For me the Oscar winning scene for Ledger was the one in the hospital, the entire dialog with Two Face was just perfect.
When you think about what Eckhart said about that scene and improvisation you really think how brilliant it was
To be fair any scene with ledger's joker is oscar worthy xD
@mother ofsneks i don't know where the actual video but i saw it in another video about why jared leto was such a terrible joker
That scene was when I started getting quite annoyed with how dumb that movie thought its audience was.
Yes!!!!! I was thinking the same thing throughout this video. " .....and you know the thing about chaos.......its...fair "
Great video. As an avid Joker fan since the 70s, your assertion that the character can be many different types of villain is spot on.
Nothing makes sense when you talk about Joker, he is chaos absolute and has no limits or boundaries or rules.
It’s not a single character, it’s a comment on the human condition - the collapse of a humans ability to make sense in a chaotic universe.
Joaquin's Arthur is literally portrays us the famous quote "It only takes one bad day"
Well, it took several bad days.
his whole life was shit tho
Harvey dent...
Silver Pizza definitely agree.
Silver Pizza but remember that jokers origin, was from the red hood, who had a bad day, was thrown into a puddle of what LOOKED like water and that’s how the Joker was made. So technically, the Joaquin Phoenix movie is all just a remake of the killing joke book.
"You complete me" is still my favorite Batman and Joker dialougue.
I always took it as a purposeful exaggeration of the most famous line in Jerry Maguire. I guess it can be taken both ways, but the audience laughed at this line in the theatre (the one I was in).
I can't quit you Batman!
We are meant to be, Batman!
"I'm a dog chasing a car, I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it!" I know the conversation is with Harvey Dent and isn't with Batman, but still my favorite Joker line.
@@tylerbrown565 yeah that's that's a really good one. pretty much describes the joker perfectly
When the movie was announced, I thought was going to be a bad non-canon movie like Venom. But, when I saw it, I got baffled by the quality of it. It's like, just in the dark knight, the actor was made for that role. The uncontrollable laugh, the general attitude, but also the so well written script, the poor guy slowling shifting into madness is so well executed I got blown away. That movie would've blown away all my expectation even if I had some in the beginning. We must keep him for future movies involving the joker !
Essenel Joaquin’s Joker, for the first time in a long time I left the theater with a sense of true satisfaction, because I knew I had just witnessed a masterpiece. An outstanding script coupled with an actor who almost felt made for the role truly elevated it to something very special. I think it’s definitely going to be considered an all time classic as the year go on.
@@charliemcmillan4230
>outstanding script
wat
The difference is Venom was always meant to be a non-canon cash grab starring a character Sony owned. The Joker was a movie built around the modern day world where Warner Brothers went "Hey we also have a clown so make him the character" much like Nintendo did with Starfox Adventures on the gamecube only less shitty.
Essenel i actually liked venom tbh but when i saw the photo pics of joker i was like wow, movie came out was amazing
jugularstab people say the script is bad but never say why
I always feel that Phoenix probably took the role because the script was portraying a completely different Joker i.e. not the enemy of Batman. Because otherwise who of that calibre would want to step through the shadow of Ledger?
Both absolutely masterful performances, Joker being a much more difficult movie to watch than The Dark Knight.
Oscar performance is not about what they did, but how they made us/the audience FEEL
Exactly
Yet how we feel is based off of what they did...
@@stabaseball3336 But how they made us feel dictates how effective they were
@@stabaseball3336 and yet there are people like Leo Dicaprio with amazing talent that didn't end up winning in a specific year because someone else made the audience or at least the judges feel different. That same performance in a different year could have won in comparison to others. It's all relative.
you gonna need a title to catch viewers attention
Watching Joker wasn’t entertaining it was an experience
I could feel chills in my body and my heart was beating and my face was in awed
I’m glad to have watched something that will go down in Movie History that won’t be forgotten
I get it. I saw it at the cinema and recommended it to everyone. I would not watch it again, it's not something meant to entertain in the back while you do something else. If I ever watch it again it will be to show it to someone. Once was enough, it cuts a little deep.
Plasma Pro no I’d say that it was both actually. It’s entertaining because of how intense it is. I’ve watched it two to three times this week because of how entertaining and mind blowing it is
nah it's overrated garbage. easily the most overrated movie of last decade
Right
@@laurocoman I agree, My grandson saw it, ( I had seen the previews and it definitely grabbed my attention). It definitely held a much deeper and physcological meaning behind the "make up and costumes ".
My grandson explained it perfectly.....It just goes to show that people who are a "little different " or don't fit into societies definition of ""what's normal or acceptable, can be pushed over the edge. A clear case of mental illness ( which definitely needs more funding and resources). BULLYING is also at the very core of this, help is needed not ridicule !
"don't mess with a man that has nothing to lose" - Handsome Jack
Borderlands 2 luv that game
@@thecrimsonwarden665 Yessir💯
"Don't pick up a fight with a man with nothing let to lose? See, I am going to show you, just how much YOU have to lose. [...]"
Yesssss
That man has nothing to lose at the end of the game and I didn’t even kill him, deathtrap did it before I got the chance to.
This is an Oscar winning RUclips video. Enjoyed very very much. I love these too movies and the joker role has always been such a interesting conversation to me. I love the joker and I love how these incredible actors put that character to life it’s amazing. And this video was fascinating to watch, hearing all this talk about it is truly amazing.