I love that those who developed the game and the ships remembered that they have phaser banks all over the ship, not just the saucer. A sorely missed opportunity for many episodes.
But they actually didnt. This is a mod. If you play the base game all you have to do is stay behind a galaxy and you will win. Its way different it has no rear phasers.
@@johnm3907 what mod is this? Does it. upgrade the graphics? I got bridge commander and the graphics are very primitive especially characters faces. Not even full hd resolution
@davepegington9066 this is bridge commander remastered, but there is also kobayashi maru but that's a bit older. Both are big step ups from normal game and very easy to install
Considering you needed the cloak, the human factor, AND to sit on it firing everything you had at a single rather exposed system, and still the Defiant took a battering tells me this was highly asymmetrical.
Add to that, this version of the galaxy class is not aligned with cannon. The cannon galaxy can fire 10 torpedoes simultaneously from each launcher-fore and aft.
This video just goes to show how well the Enterprise-D's phaser strips cover all the angles. No mater where the Defiant was, relative to the ship, she was getting hit by blast after blast. The Defiant on the other hand was built to slag anything that appeared in front of it's nose. So I'm not surprised it was basically a tie.
Didn't look like a tie, looks like the Defiant got beat up by the galaxy class. He had to try hard to win in the defiant, only had about 20% health left, and the battle against the galaxy took a long time. But when he was the galaxy, the fight was short and he had around 90% health left. That's pretty far from a tie...
@@enermaxstephens1051 Oh I only meant in the most general sense, that both survived their fight, intact and destroyed their opponents. When you get to specifics, the Galaxy was the clear winner.
Technically the defiant should have shredded the galaxy class, the galaxy is a big cruise ship in space, not designed with combat in mind, hence why it's profile and layout lends itself less to any sort of tactical advantages and more towards being this big impressive looking marvel to show off on it's first contact and diplomatic missions, this is furthered by it's luxurious focus internally, nothing about the galaxy class says "battleship" The defiant on the other hand is a small, heavily armed, well defended warship with a small crew, cramped spartan interiors and a slim sleek profile, the defiant IS designed to hurt things, and if it had to, it would be more than capable of tearing apart a galaxy class.
The Defiant's forward arc firepower is slightly more powerful than a galaxy class, but even though it's over powered for its size, its power generating capability is still WAY less than that of a Galaxy Class. Which means that its shields are a fraction of the strength of a Galaxy Class, and even with Defiant's ablative armor, its defensive capabilities fall woefully short of that of a Galaxy class. She may be able to punch as hard as a Galaxy, but the Defiant just can't take as many punches in return. That's the major difference in the manual of arms of the 2 different designs. One is a capital ship that puts major emphasis on defense, the other is an offensive combat ship with an emphasis on attack/strike capabilities.
Add to that, a Galaxy class has more area to spread out critical systems. The Defiant’s volume and surface area requires systems be clustered together. The advantage being it should be easier to evade shots but if the shots land they will do more damage to neighbouring systems since they are tightly clustered and can’t spare space for backups.
Let's see a stock Enterprise-D versus the Delta Quadrant, as if one of the episodes from Season 1 of TNG where they were thrown way out into unknown space had suddenly turned the series into Voyager.
@@JaguarCats to be fair, Jake did know what he was doing, he just wasn't star fleet enough for anyone to listen. Still turned out alright though... I mean apart from only 3 other crew members surviving along with Jake and Nog. But I'm sure everyone learnt a valuable lesson: the Dominion are not The Empire. They ain't going to just ray shield and exhaust port level weakness and leave it at that, Especially of you're the Federation. though they will happily make it look like thier under belly is showing juuust to get you into close weapons range..
Ya IIRC at that point the Dominion threat was still new and DS9 hadn’t been fully upgraded yet. Though to be fair to DS9, I doubt a retrofitted cardassian ore processing station would have the same sensor capability as a Galaxy Class.
They are both hero ships, but I’m gonna be very honest with you me personally I’m usually pretty neutral watching the videos, but I want to see the galaxy class wipe the floor and win every time! Even when it’s completely unrealistic lol
The defiant is equal to the war defiant in terms of phasers, but in terms of torpedoes, the defiant is equal to 2 war galaxies, and has 3x the hull (regenerative ablative hull), and is much more maneuverable (but weaker shields, about 80% as strong as the base defiant)
I have found that with the Galaxy class I have the best results getting above and behind (to avoid rear torps), then taking out center impulse first followed by the others. After that, it's fish in a barrel.
Wonder if something like this could be run again where the Ent-D operates more as an actual battleship/heavy cruiser? Meaning it relies strictly on the weapons arcs to fire and little to no maneuverability. Literally like an old school battleship on the seas. I think it would be much more realistic than what we saw. The Defiant would run rings around it, there's no way it could outsteer them. To play out the scenario I would keep the speed of the Ent-D low and just rely on the distribution of the weapons to do their work depending on the position of the opposing ship.
😲🤔Gosh Admiral. I had a feeling but yes , the right tactics and the helm. In the shows, one little bump and all screens start smoking lol. The Galaxy is or has more power, and Defiant has quantums but it did not do much wow. That is crazy.. love the battle Admiral.. You are right, both ships has their own pros and cons so hard to say.. lol. Big Bird gosh I am just imagining him on one of the ships.. lol. 😊🖖
1:25 You got away this time, but I'd rather not decloaked *under* a Galaxy class. It has a lot more phasers firing down than up. According to my experience at least. And you know how deadly those phasers are if 4 of them are burning through your shields
Before I watch... this is a tough one to call. A highly maneuverable and armored ship vs. the power of a Galaxy class. I'd have to give the edge to the Defiant if it can "cover the spread." 😄 Worf had to be at tactical... their aim was perfect... the spread covered you.😆 And yes, when you were flying the D, I think it may have been ensign Big Bird at tactical... Tell Snuffy to stop distracting him. 🤣
Maneuverability doesn't matter much when you're fighting an enemy that can fire 360° on every axis and has tank-like shielding. The human factor won the first round, but the second round is more realistic to what a fight between a Galaxy class and Defiant class ships would be like. At least if they're going 1 on 1. Get 3 or 4 Defiants together and the Galaxy would be in trouble, as Defiant class ships were intended to fight in squadrons or in tandem with larger ships.
The Defiant was basically a big fighter. In Paradise lost when it fights an excelsior, the scale is all off. No matter how tough the Defiant is, it isn't taking down a capital ship like an upgraded excelsior with a crew of 750 or a galaxy class with a crew of 1000. Only plot armor has the Defiant surviving. It was supposed to be used in "wolf packs," 3 or 4 defiants paired up with a larger ship. By itself, it is an incredible large fighter, but just a fighter, not a full warship.
Based on the DS9 episode The Jem'Hadar the USS Odyssey's phasers did very little damage to the Jem'Hadar ships. In the very next episode, The Search, the Defiant's pulse phaser cannons destroyed the same class Jem'Hadar ship with the first burst. The Defiant had the same power as much larger ships so it could fight the Borg which is mentioned in The Search. Whoever designed this game did not do episode research. In DS9 episode Shattered Mirror the Defiant destroyed a Bird of Prey and beat the crap out of a Negh'Var Class Cruiser which is in the same power class as a Galaxy class if not more powerful.
The defiant is an absolute beast in series it survives multiple hit with no shield ablative armour only takes on multiple ships at once in the same scenario the enty D would be wrecked
defiant got something that no game can reproduce ....plot armor ... u can see in this clip very cleary what happens when a defiant class escort dosnt have plot armor
Oh the negh'var is above the galaxy class in power, it's closer to a sovereign if anything. The galaxy class is not a powerful ship, it's a big cruise ship in space designed with luxury and showing off in mind for first contact and diplomatic missions, it can definitely defend itself, but classes like the nebula, akira, steamrunner, intrepid and incidentally the defiant all outgun it.
@@adambrown6669 galaxy is very powerful u just dont see it in any way in tng the classes u said cant even touch the galaxy if the galaxy is fully equiped for warr like u see in ds9 u see a beast... extra phasers more shield power
The interesting thing about the Defiant here is that when the CPU was controlling it there was no attempt really to outflank the Galaxy class or exploit the fact that it's a much harder target to hit but instead just stood back and tried to slug it out with a ship literally more than 5 times its size. There's no universe where anyone would actually use a tactic like that with a ship like the Defiant so I think that your run was much more interesting in showing that the Defiant COULD defeat a Galaxy class starship but it would be hard fought and very difficult whereas the Galaxy class simply needs to keep the Defiant in range of it's weaponry and it can overpower it.
I have done this battle. the best tactic is to target the Galaxy's torpedo's right off the hop. Use Defiant's superior maneuverability to dodge the initial spread of torpedos then hit the neck hard.
I think this battle depends heavily on who is onboard the Defiant and Enterprise Sisko is gonna take basically anyone. He just has the will to win. Worf and Obrien on the Defiant with Picard on the Enterprise? I can imagine Worf and Obrien having a massive edge as they know the Enterprise so well. Maybe a seasoned Riker could change the tables though. We know he is very good at inventing on the fly. It also depends on whether the defiant needs to stop the enterprise now or if they have the freedom to pick their moment. Definitely a complicated one that could go back and forth for alot of reasons
DS9 gave us the impression that the Defiant being able to fight Dominion attack ships better than the Odyssey makes it a far more superior ship to the Galaxy Class. However a large slow moving (yes Picard slow moving) capital ship was a very poor matchup against 2 hardened highly maneuverable and heavily armed attack ships. The Galaxy class would be a match for a Vorcha Class cruiser which the Defiant had trouble with in Way of the Warrior. In naval terms Defiant would be a Monitor, whereas the Galaxy is a Battlecruiser or Heavy Cruiser.
One thing I noticed is that you stayed to close after a barrage from the cannons. You need to run them pivot and turn to fire on them. I had the same problem in STO. Took a few times to learn doing strafing runs on the port or starboard sides
I think Defiant has an advantage if it's sensors are down in that it's fast and maneuverable and primary weapons face forward, so it can just point and shoot if need be, but really a Galaxy class has a huge advantage which we rarely saw on screen that not only does it have a fully spherical firing range but all of those phaser banks can fire simultaneously, a target could have 3, 4, or 5 arrays locked on at all times no matter where they maneuvered to
I always feel that a Defiant class is a frigate with cruiser firepower, while the USS Defiant (hero ship) is more of a cruiser with battleship firepower. But, the Galaxy class is just simply a battleship. The main thing that Defiant has going for her is the more advanced technology at play, but a Galaxy refit I have a feeling would wipe the floor with a Defiant.
Okay how is a cloaking device NOT your best chance? And what do you mean that you're "too afraid to cloak"?? Even if they can detect an anomaly doesn't mean they can target you. You should cloak, attack, cloak/run away, then attack again. The cloaking device is your best offensive and defensive option.
Retro has very bad luck with cloaking. He always cloaks just before the opponent fires a full barrage of phazers and torpedoes. They always hit right when the cloaking device takes down his shields... Every single time. It's turned into a running joke, "How do you beat the Retro Badger? Just give him a cloaked ship."
The galaxy class needs to present the ventral and dorsal sides towards enemies so that the engineering and saucer section phaser arrays have equal opportunity to target the craft.
O always wanted a pimphand class .... or sisko class variant . A war focused galaxy class that drops 4-6 defiant class ships out of the modified saucer. Carrier style. With reinforcing sheild harmonics and ability to separate its a mini fleet in a can
The Galaxy Class is classified as a heavy cruiser, and the Defiant is Classified as a destroyer. So it is no surprise to me that the Galaxy easily won.
@@ransom182 agreed. The Galaxy is the largest, most powerful and most expensive ship in Starfleet before the Sovereign entered service. For the tonnage, firepower, numbers and how they're used, she's more battleship than cruiser.
I think you should’ve done one more as the defiant versus the galaxy class without clicking device at all. I still bet you would’ve gotten pretty far if not, possibly defeated it. I think when it comes down to the simulations is you are a human being who uses creative thought and ingenuity that a computer doesn’t think of Example getting up close and staying near the bottom because you know that’s where the warp core is…. Also trying to make sure you’re taking advantage of the defiants maneuverability…. In any event, it would be interesting to see how that would turn out.
I think the Defiant would mop the floor with a "stock" Galaxy, but it does depend on the flying and tactics. In series the two key's to victory would either be in tight rapid movement to prevent / reduce clean target locks (the Sisko vs Negh'var method) or.. matching course to stay aligned with the Starboard Ventral. Then you only really have to contend with the Aft Torpedo launcher and the few Ventral phaser arrays located in the secondary hull. if keep that position, up tight.. the Saucer's phasers won't be able to hit the Defiant without hitting itself in the process.. main goal would be to target those phasers in the first strike.
Target sensor array and the galaxy class looses its ability to target or target center impulse drive, once its impulse drive is crippled thats job done. Also don't forget Defiant has ablative hull armor so can take a beating, Defiant was also built as a specific war ship where as galaxy is built for exploration although still powerful due to it's immense class XI warp core and when the galaxy had it's refit she was armed better to deal with romulan D'Derex class warbird.
The Defiant class was never very powerful on its own. In the show it has a heavy dose of plot armor, but it was meant to be a cheap "disposable" ship that attacked in swarms with heavy weaponry. The idea was that you could overpower a larger enemy with a group of smaller ships with tiny crews that were both easier to replace than an Excelsior or Galaxy.
If you're talking about pre-Dominion war upgrades the Defiant was said to be 1/3 the size of a Galaxy class saucer section with three time the firepower. I doubt the phasers of the Galaxy would have been so accurate against such a small target. The Odyssey disaster is a good example of this.
If Defiant class could dream of taking on a Dominion dreadnaught, the Defiant could take a galaxy in the tv show… plot armor or officer competence. Whichever one you think.
We know from the show that the Defiant was unable to defeat an upgraded 80 year-old Excelsior class, so I doubt it would single-handedly knock down a Galaxy class.
It's the D all the way. The Defiant was designed to operate in groups like a wolf pack. Very doubtful a single Defiant would destroy a Galaxy class ship, even more mismatched once the saucer is separated from the star drive.
I kind of look at the ships cloak as real life stealth planes. There are some radars that can detect them but not to the point they can get a weapons lock.
I don't think I've ever seen you win a match with the enemy only having one shield array around 0%, and the other 5 still being at full 100%. Great focus-targeting with the Defiant on the D!
There is a good reason why the original name for the defiant was "CISCO's PIMP HAND" also with tactics the defiant realy did a number on a kiliong nigvar
Why is defiant so much less maneuverable? Not in the firing arc of the pulse phasers very often. Also Defiant has ablative armor, so it should do well against phasers.
I like to imagine that this exact scenario was used to convince leadership at Starfleet of all sorts of things ranging from the usage of pulse phasors to cloaking tactics, armor, and small agility based vessels vs large capital ships. A ship this size taking out a Galaxy class under any conditions is unreasonable and a resource drain. Actually, this kinda reminds me of the Ukrainian sea drones vs Russian battleships.
The Enterprise is a battleship and the Defiant is a destroyer or light cruiser the cost of the Enterprise would be the cost of 10 Defiant's. Defiant Class ships would move in a pack of 2 to 4 ships and was meant to fight Borg Cubes. 4 Defiant class ships would take the Enterprise down in no time flat. If you lose an Enterprise you lose 2000+ crewman, if you lose a Defiant you lose 50. If I was running a war I would build 10,000 Defiants over 1000 Enterprises. They are faster, move better in a fight and you can crank them out in no time.
It basically came down to the superior captain. The Galaxy class had FAR more ship to fight with, but the Defiant certainly had more fire power. A fair fight, even if it was asymmetric in capability.
Paused just before your prediction. Mine us that if the Galaxy lands her shots, she'll win by virtue of being a physically larger ship, which should be able to take more hits, but the Defiant is going to make her presence known.
Galaxy class, at least in TNG, was a paper tiger---a glass jaw that would put it down for the count with some well placed shots. It appeared to be made tougher later on for the war. I think Bridge Commander's Galaxy was a bit more manuerverable than the Galaxy should have been, in which case the Defiant would have an easy time lining up its phaser cannons with the Galaxy vulnerabilities fairly easily. But, one was designed as a fighter, and the other as a capital ship of exploration and science.
Did you not have the option of targeting their weapons/targeting array? That would've been my choice given the smaller ship with cloaking and also very fixed weaponry.
I've done this battle many times on BCR 1.2 and can predict that the D wipes the floor with the Defiant, UNLESS the Defiant can sit underneath it and avoid the torps. That, or sit on top and knock out the impulse.
The Galaxy class looked way way more maneuverable than it should be. In cannon the Defiant should be able to literally fly circles around it. Speedboat vs aircraft carrier differences there. The *reason* the Galaxy class had phaser banks all over it was *because* it maneuvered like a capitol class does.
The Galaxy class Enterprise D would have wiped the board against the Klingon bird of prey in Generations, Riker just had to say divert shield power to weapons, or just change shield frequency.
Geordi tried the "complete spectrum" (as he said in the battle in 'Generations') of shield frequencies - but the Duras sisters saw what he did through the visor spy and adapt. Pretty sure they did also counter the Enterprise's attacks mostly through adapting the weapon frequencies.
Defiant basically dominion war variant with quantum torpedos….. How about Galaxy dominion war variant upgrade is more fair armed with quantum torpedos as well….
Hmm shows how good a fight with a cloaked ship could have been in generations, like I kinda knew the defiant was gonna win off the bat with the start one, and the tactic makes sense, hold where the least defense is, the lower half and have at it, and your actually kinda using the run away tactic he did in the movie to keep the defiant at arms length with the second fight actually as I always thought it kinda needed a refit or maybe some work with its defensive armaments, as what sense does it make that the engineering section has all the torpedo launchers, but not the saucer, like just put a bunch where the rim is, like two pointing front, two on either side maybe pointing down, and two aft in the disconnection area so its got aft defenses and the JJ films actually did something kinda smart with their version of the enterprise, they mounted the torpedo launchers broadside like an old sailing ship on the engineering section, and those pointing down on the bottom would have ripped the defiant apart like imagine a bunch on the bottom, like 3 with a triangle like pattern just going straight down or aimed backwards as it flies over something, that would be a very bad day for any ship facing it like that and maybe two extra forward, as imagine the damage a string like that could have done as I've always thought they should have had two extra torpedo launchers at the front of the engineering section on either end of the deflector dish too, as imagine full spread if it came in from both sides and the center as an ice breaker like one of the pulses from the deflector dish then the secondary hull truly WOULD have been the battle part of it lol and then two vertical phaser strips above the shuttlebay on the saucer just to give that area some defense, the spot where they put the two on the galaxy x plus the torpedo launcher that honestly looks like something you'd see sticking out of a san franssico trolly to power it really you know something abit more subtile that fits the spirit of the thing that could fire both aft and forward while clearing the bridge from that angle, rather than just the venture upgrade where they literally accidentally left some of those parts on the 4 foot model from the D refit and made it cannon with the phaser strips ontop of the engines, which could work too, but that might be too much but I guess that's kind of what the ross class really is if you think about it, although I think its engineering hull would look far better on an ambassador as a mix of the two versions of that, than as a replacement for the galaxy class but its a shame they just didnt really upgrade or redo any of that instead of writing it out like they did as imaging ramming the scimitar with the saucer of the D instead of the E, it would have been like ramming a starbase into it instead of a shuttle granted I dont think Guianain would have been two pleased about her permanent relocation to the bridge of the scimitar however lol
I love that those who developed the game and the ships remembered that they have phaser banks all over the ship, not just the saucer. A sorely missed opportunity for many episodes.
But they actually didnt. This is a mod. If you play the base game all you have to do is stay behind a galaxy and you will win. Its way different it has no rear phasers.
@@johnm3907 ugh, fail.
@@cujoedaman yeah it's very bad like that. The bird of prey stomps the galaxy in base game
@@johnm3907 what mod is this?
Does it. upgrade the graphics? I got bridge commander and the graphics are very primitive especially characters faces. Not even full hd resolution
@davepegington9066 this is bridge commander remastered, but there is also kobayashi maru but that's a bit older. Both are big step ups from normal game and very easy to install
3:23 "Attack pattern Sisko!"
Ah, pattern suicide.
I was just starting to like this ship.
SMILEY has entered the chat.
@@stratfordbaby 😃
I like to think that "attack pattern Sisko" is just a giant hand reaching out to slap the enemy ship lol
@@SvendleBerries No, that's 'attack pattern Apollo'. 😉
Considering you needed the cloak, the human factor, AND to sit on it firing everything you had at a single rather exposed system, and still the Defiant took a battering tells me this was highly asymmetrical.
Add to that, this version of the galaxy class is not aligned with cannon. The cannon galaxy can fire 10 torpedoes simultaneously from each launcher-fore and aft.
@@travispettit9762 This one's only two less, they just weren't using full spread.
"That's why we're aboard her."
This video just goes to show how well the Enterprise-D's phaser strips cover all the angles. No mater where the Defiant was, relative to the ship, she was getting hit by blast after blast. The Defiant on the other hand was built to slag anything that appeared in front of it's nose. So I'm not surprised it was basically a tie.
Didn't look like a tie, looks like the Defiant got beat up by the galaxy class. He had to try hard to win in the defiant, only had about 20% health left, and the battle against the galaxy took a long time. But when he was the galaxy, the fight was short and he had around 90% health left. That's pretty far from a tie...
@@enermaxstephens1051 Oh I only meant in the most general sense, that both survived their fight, intact and destroyed their opponents. When you get to specifics, the Galaxy was the clear winner.
Technically the defiant should have shredded the galaxy class, the galaxy is a big cruise ship in space, not designed with combat in mind, hence why it's profile and layout lends itself less to any sort of tactical advantages and more towards being this big impressive looking marvel to show off on it's first contact and diplomatic missions, this is furthered by it's luxurious focus internally, nothing about the galaxy class says "battleship"
The defiant on the other hand is a small, heavily armed, well defended warship with a small crew, cramped spartan interiors and a slim sleek profile, the defiant IS designed to hurt things, and if it had to, it would be more than capable of tearing apart a galaxy class.
The Defiant's forward arc firepower is slightly more powerful than a galaxy class, but even though it's over powered for its size, its power generating capability is still WAY less than that of a Galaxy Class.
Which means that its shields are a fraction of the strength of a Galaxy Class, and even with Defiant's ablative armor, its defensive capabilities fall woefully short of that of a Galaxy class.
She may be able to punch as hard as a Galaxy, but the Defiant just can't take as many punches in return. That's the major difference in the manual of arms of the 2 different designs.
One is a capital ship that puts major emphasis on defense, the other is an offensive combat ship with an emphasis on attack/strike capabilities.
Well said! That sums it perfectly. 🖖
Add to that, a Galaxy class has more area to spread out critical systems. The Defiant’s volume and surface area requires systems be clustered together. The advantage being it should be easier to evade shots but if the shots land they will do more damage to neighbouring systems since they are tightly clustered and can’t spare space for backups.
@@davfree9732 A very good point.
Let's see a stock Enterprise-D versus the Delta Quadrant, as if one of the episodes from Season 1 of TNG where they were thrown way out into unknown space had suddenly turned the series into Voyager.
Now seeing them both, I want a recreation of Battle of wolf359 xD
This reminds me of when the Valiant attacked that Jem Hadar warship. Only here, there was a captain who KNEW what they were doing.
@@JaguarCats to be fair, Jake did know what he was doing, he just wasn't star fleet enough for anyone to listen.
Still turned out alright though... I mean apart from only 3 other crew members surviving along with Jake and Nog.
But I'm sure everyone learnt a valuable lesson: the Dominion are not The Empire. They ain't going to just ray shield and exhaust port level weakness and leave it at that, Especially of you're the Federation.
though they will happily make it look like thier under belly is showing juuust to get you into close weapons range..
@@Jayleon72 indeed!
@@JaguarCats ah. SG1 fan too, eh? Awesome. 😉
that 1st battle hurt me inside😮💨, but good fight. both are great ship thanks for your time.
Thanks 🖖
"Tough little ship."
"Little?"
Ds9 only noticed the defiant when it was on top of them
literally, and only once she started decloaking
@@cmj0929 just started ds9 again still my favourite series
Ya IIRC at that point the Dominion threat was still new and DS9 hadn’t been fully upgraded yet.
Though to be fair to DS9, I doubt a retrofitted cardassian ore processing station would have the same sensor capability as a Galaxy Class.
@@Sonicboom2007 federation ships can’t detect cloaked ships unless the ships cloak is damaged or something else is wrong with it
They are both hero ships, but I’m gonna be very honest with you me personally I’m usually pretty neutral watching the videos, but I want to see the galaxy class wipe the floor and win every time! Even when it’s completely unrealistic lol
3:40 Amazing how their shields were nearly intact but the hull was nearly Swiss cheese.
I laughed more than I should have at 'full spread' with that picture LOL
The defiant is equal to the war defiant in terms of phasers, but in terms of torpedoes, the defiant is equal to 2 war galaxies, and has 3x the hull (regenerative ablative hull), and is much more maneuverable (but weaker shields, about 80% as strong as the base defiant)
I have found that with the Galaxy class I have the best results getting above and behind (to avoid rear torps), then taking out center impulse first followed by the others. After that, it's fish in a barrel.
Wonder if something like this could be run again where the Ent-D operates more as an actual battleship/heavy cruiser? Meaning it relies strictly on the weapons arcs to fire and little to no maneuverability. Literally like an old school battleship on the seas. I think it would be much more realistic than what we saw. The Defiant would run rings around it, there's no way it could outsteer them. To play out the scenario I would keep the speed of the Ent-D low and just rely on the distribution of the weapons to do their work depending on the position of the opposing ship.
😲🤔Gosh Admiral. I had a feeling but yes , the right tactics and the helm. In the shows, one little bump and all screens start smoking lol. The Galaxy is or has more power, and Defiant has quantums but it did not do much wow. That is crazy.. love the battle Admiral.. You are right, both ships has their own pros and cons so hard to say.. lol. Big Bird gosh I am just imagining him on one of the ships.. lol. 😊🖖
It does really show that it's a matter of who is in charge, and love attack pattern Sisco!
hey retro. its been a while since i've watched any of your vids and i'm chuffed that you've done this well :)
1:25 You got away this time, but I'd rather not decloaked *under* a Galaxy class. It has a lot more phasers firing down than up. According to my experience at least. And you know how deadly those phasers are if 4 of them are burning through your shields
I played BC Kobayashi Maru though. Ships could fire multiple phasers at the same time there. Meanwhile, I have zero experience in BC Remastered
Before I watch... this is a tough one to call. A highly maneuverable and armored ship vs. the power of a Galaxy class. I'd have to give the edge to the Defiant if it can "cover the spread." 😄
Worf had to be at tactical... their aim was perfect... the spread covered you.😆
And yes, when you were flying the D, I think it may have been ensign Big Bird at tactical...
Tell Snuffy to stop distracting him. 🤣
Maneuverability doesn't matter much when you're fighting an enemy that can fire 360° on every axis and has tank-like shielding. The human factor won the first round, but the second round is more realistic to what a fight between a Galaxy class and Defiant class ships would be like. At least if they're going 1 on 1. Get 3 or 4 Defiants together and the Galaxy would be in trouble, as Defiant class ships were intended to fight in squadrons or in tandem with larger ships.
I agree... the human factor won the first round.
Evasive pattern Elmo😂
@markmullins8622 good one 👍 😄
The Defiant was basically a big fighter. In Paradise lost when it fights an excelsior, the scale is all off. No matter how tough the Defiant is, it isn't taking down a capital ship like an upgraded excelsior with a crew of 750 or a galaxy class with a crew of 1000.
Only plot armor has the Defiant surviving. It was supposed to be used in "wolf packs," 3 or 4 defiants paired up with a larger ship.
By itself, it is an incredible large fighter, but just a fighter, not a full warship.
3:54 "prepare for ramming speed!"
Based on the DS9 episode The Jem'Hadar the USS Odyssey's phasers did very little damage to the Jem'Hadar ships. In the very next episode, The Search, the Defiant's pulse phaser cannons destroyed the same class Jem'Hadar ship with the first burst. The Defiant had the same power as much larger ships so it could fight the Borg which is mentioned in The Search. Whoever designed this game did not do episode research. In DS9 episode Shattered Mirror the Defiant destroyed a Bird of Prey and beat the crap out of a Negh'Var Class Cruiser which is in the same power class as a Galaxy class if not more powerful.
The defiant is an absolute beast in series it survives multiple hit with no shield ablative armour only takes on multiple ships at once in the same scenario the enty D would be wrecked
Star trek weapons are always exactly as powerful as the plot and the vfx budget needs them to be.
defiant got something that no game can reproduce ....plot armor ... u can see in this clip very cleary what happens when a defiant class escort dosnt have plot armor
Oh the negh'var is above the galaxy class in power, it's closer to a sovereign if anything.
The galaxy class is not a powerful ship, it's a big cruise ship in space designed with luxury and showing off in mind for first contact and diplomatic missions, it can definitely defend itself, but classes like the nebula, akira, steamrunner, intrepid and incidentally the defiant all outgun it.
@@adambrown6669 galaxy is very powerful u just dont see it in any way in tng the classes u said cant even touch the galaxy if the galaxy is fully equiped for warr like u see in ds9 u see a beast... extra phasers more shield power
The interesting thing about the Defiant here is that when the CPU was controlling it there was no attempt really to outflank the Galaxy class or exploit the fact that it's a much harder target to hit but instead just stood back and tried to slug it out with a ship literally more than 5 times its size. There's no universe where anyone would actually use a tactic like that with a ship like the Defiant so I think that your run was much more interesting in showing that the Defiant COULD defeat a Galaxy class starship but it would be hard fought and very difficult whereas the Galaxy class simply needs to keep the Defiant in range of it's weaponry and it can overpower it.
Great battle on both sides the galaxy class is a monster in the right hands but so is the defiant so this battle was class
Well said. Th3 Defiant was made specifically for a superior Sisko/Kirkian warrior, never to be used as the AI did in the second half of that video.
I love that the Defiants nose section is both a warhead and the docking bay lol
I have done this battle. the best tactic is to target the Galaxy's torpedo's right off the hop. Use Defiant's superior maneuverability to dodge the initial spread of torpedos then hit the neck hard.
I think this battle depends heavily on who is onboard the Defiant and Enterprise
Sisko is gonna take basically anyone. He just has the will to win.
Worf and Obrien on the Defiant with Picard on the Enterprise? I can imagine Worf and Obrien having a massive edge as they know the Enterprise so well.
Maybe a seasoned Riker could change the tables though. We know he is very good at inventing on the fly.
It also depends on whether the defiant needs to stop the enterprise now or if they have the freedom to pick their moment.
Definitely a complicated one that could go back and forth for alot of reasons
I would wipe the stars with Sisko.
DS9 gave us the impression that the Defiant being able to fight Dominion attack ships better than the Odyssey makes it a far more superior ship to the Galaxy Class. However a large slow moving (yes Picard slow moving) capital ship was a very poor matchup against 2 hardened highly maneuverable and heavily armed attack ships. The Galaxy class would be a match for a Vorcha Class cruiser which the Defiant had trouble with in Way of the Warrior. In naval terms Defiant would be a Monitor, whereas the Galaxy is a Battlecruiser or Heavy Cruiser.
This is a perfect example of why the defiant was up gunned and overpowered "for its size".
I will say putting up Sisko and then putting up Big Bird at tactical was funny.
Best Defiant piloting I've seen from you.
Thanks 🖖
One thing I noticed is that you stayed to close after a barrage from the cannons. You need to run them pivot and turn to fire on them. I had the same problem in STO. Took a few times to learn doing strafing runs on the port or starboard sides
"What do you think of that result?"
Worf: "How did I lose TWICE?"
I think Defiant has an advantage if it's sensors are down in that it's fast and maneuverable and primary weapons face forward, so it can just point and shoot if need be, but really a Galaxy class has a huge advantage which we rarely saw on screen that not only does it have a fully spherical firing range but all of those phaser banks can fire simultaneously, a target could have 3, 4, or 5 arrays locked on at all times no matter where they maneuvered to
I always feel that a Defiant class is a frigate with cruiser firepower, while the USS Defiant (hero ship) is more of a cruiser with battleship firepower. But, the Galaxy class is just simply a battleship. The main thing that Defiant has going for her is the more advanced technology at play, but a Galaxy refit I have a feeling would wipe the floor with a Defiant.
Okay how is a cloaking device NOT your best chance? And what do you mean that you're "too afraid to cloak"??
Even if they can detect an anomaly doesn't mean they can target you.
You should cloak, attack, cloak/run away, then attack again. The cloaking device is your best offensive and defensive option.
Retro has very bad luck with cloaking. He always cloaks just before the opponent fires a full barrage of phazers and torpedoes. They always hit right when the cloaking device takes down his shields... Every single time. It's turned into a running joke, "How do you beat the Retro Badger? Just give him a cloaked ship."
@@s.patrickmarino7289
Gotcha.
The galaxy class needs to present the ventral and dorsal sides towards enemies so that the engineering and saucer section phaser arrays have equal opportunity to target the craft.
O always wanted a pimphand class .... or sisko class variant . A war focused galaxy class that drops 4-6 defiant class ships out of the modified saucer. Carrier style. With reinforcing sheild harmonics and ability to separate its a mini fleet in a can
The Galaxy Class is classified as a heavy cruiser, and the Defiant is Classified as a destroyer. So it is no surprise to me that the Galaxy easily won.
I think of the Galaxy as a Battleship
@@ransom182 agreed. The Galaxy is the largest, most powerful and most expensive ship in Starfleet before the Sovereign entered service. For the tonnage, firepower, numbers and how they're used, she's more battleship than cruiser.
@samspeed6271 What are you on about expensive? Do you not know that money does not exist in the Future :)
Galaxy Class is a battleship.
@@ransom182 It's informally known as a dreadnought due to it's unusually large size
P.s - lil tip phasers are designed to drain shields whilst torpedo's are predominantly there to damage the hull once shields have collapsed.
In DS9 if was said that the Defiant had the same firepower as a galaxy class ship.
Attack Pattern Sisko is what I imagine he said to himself when he clocked Q across the chin.
🤣🤣
The galaxy. The hotel in space with weapons
Vs
Siskos pimp hand 😅
A funny day with phaserpower of the Enterprise - D and Defaint! Video is top 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟❤️👍😉👏🌄🖖🤣.
This is why you don't send capital ships into battle unescorted. Their job isn't to slug is out with PT boats and maybe get hit by a torpedo.
"Can the Defiant beat Enterprise?" Yes.
"Can a Defiant-class beat a Galaxy-class?" Not likely. You would have been toast without the cloak.
a cisco could destroy a Borg cube with escape pod but the Borg would just run away from him.
I think you should’ve done one more as the defiant versus the galaxy class without clicking device at all. I still bet you would’ve gotten pretty far if not, possibly defeated it. I think when it comes down to the simulations is you are a human being who uses creative thought and ingenuity that a computer doesn’t think of Example getting up close and staying near the bottom because you know that’s where the warp core is…. Also trying to make sure you’re taking advantage of the defiants maneuverability…. In any event, it would be interesting to see how that would turn out.
I think the Defiant would mop the floor with a "stock" Galaxy, but it does depend on the flying and tactics. In series the two key's to victory would either be in tight rapid movement to prevent / reduce clean target locks (the Sisko vs Negh'var method) or.. matching course to stay aligned with the Starboard Ventral. Then you only really have to contend with the Aft Torpedo launcher and the few Ventral phaser arrays located in the secondary hull. if keep that position, up tight.. the Saucer's phasers won't be able to hit the Defiant without hitting itself in the process.. main goal would be to target those phasers in the first strike.
Target sensor array and the galaxy class looses its ability to target or target center impulse drive, once its impulse drive is crippled thats job done. Also don't forget Defiant has ablative hull armor so can take a beating, Defiant was also built as a specific war ship where as galaxy is built for exploration although still powerful due to it's immense class XI warp core and when the galaxy had it's refit she was armed better to deal with romulan D'Derex class warbird.
I wonder how this battle would've played out against the venture
Like the Jem Hadar, just aim for the deflector dish. BOOM! battle over. Especially seeing as little Def has the warhead 👊.
00:11 Stock galaxy class...... USS enterprise D.... two different things my guy.
The Defiant class was never very powerful on its own. In the show it has a heavy dose of plot armor, but it was meant to be a cheap "disposable" ship that attacked in swarms with heavy weaponry. The idea was that you could overpower a larger enemy with a group of smaller ships with tiny crews that were both easier to replace than an Excelsior or Galaxy.
Exactly just like the Jem Hadar attack ships that destroyed the galaxy class Odyssey
If you're talking about pre-Dominion war upgrades the Defiant was said to be 1/3 the size of a Galaxy class saucer section with three time the firepower. I doubt the phasers of the Galaxy would have been so accurate against such a small target. The Odyssey disaster is a good example of this.
Nice tactic of hiding in the ventral section and staying away from the photons!
Thanks 🖖
If Defiant class could dream of taking on a Dominion dreadnaught, the Defiant could take a galaxy in the tv show… plot armor or officer competence. Whichever one you think.
We know from the show that the Defiant was unable to defeat an upgraded 80 year-old Excelsior class, so I doubt it would single-handedly knock down a Galaxy class.
You would be much more effective if you targeted impulse engines on the Enterprise and remove it's ability to maneuver.
Its all about the captain.. Ty for the video and LLAP!
Nice to see the Enterprise-D smash the defiant 👍👍
Relying on armour, as the hull goes below 50%? Wishful thinking 🖖
Great battle, properly balanced.
It's the D all the way.
The Defiant was designed to operate in groups like a wolf pack.
Very doubtful a single Defiant would destroy a Galaxy class ship, even more mismatched once the saucer is separated from the star drive.
4:58 the Sensors had been hit but not disabled up to this point.
I kind of look at the ships cloak as real life stealth planes. There are some radars that can detect them but not to the point they can get a weapons lock.
I predict the winner will be the player. In all seriousness though, the Galaxy will clap when under player control for sure.
I don't think I've ever seen you win a match with the enemy only having one shield array around 0%, and the other 5 still being at full 100%.
Great focus-targeting with the Defiant on the D!
Thanks 🖖
One tough little ship. I truly adore the defiant. There isn’t a starship as powerful as her at her size level.
There is a good reason why the original name for the defiant was "CISCO's PIMP HAND" also with tactics the defiant realy did a number on a kiliong nigvar
Why is defiant so much less maneuverable? Not in the firing arc of the pulse phasers very often. Also Defiant has ablative armor, so it should do well against phasers.
I like to imagine that this exact scenario was used to convince leadership at Starfleet of all sorts of things ranging from the usage of pulse phasors to cloaking tactics, armor, and small agility based vessels vs large capital ships. A ship this size taking out a Galaxy class under any conditions is unreasonable and a resource drain.
Actually, this kinda reminds me of the Ukrainian sea drones vs Russian battleships.
Not sure why he does not use the afternoon phasers on the defiant
Those photon torpedoes just spank the Defiant.
The Enterprise is a battleship and the Defiant is a destroyer or light cruiser the cost of the Enterprise would be the cost of 10 Defiant's. Defiant Class ships would move in a pack of 2 to 4 ships and was meant to fight Borg Cubes. 4 Defiant class ships would take the Enterprise down in no time flat. If you lose an Enterprise you lose 2000+ crewman, if you lose a Defiant you lose 50. If I was running a war I would build 10,000 Defiants over 1000 Enterprises. They are faster, move better in a fight and you can crank them out in no time.
It basically came down to the superior captain. The Galaxy class had FAR more ship to fight with, but the Defiant certainly had more fire power.
A fair fight, even if it was asymmetric in capability.
Paused just before your prediction. Mine us that if the Galaxy lands her shots, she'll win by virtue of being a physically larger ship, which should be able to take more hits, but the Defiant is going to make her presence known.
Wait, it didnt look like the Defiant had any Armor subsystem :)
It's almost like LT Worf versus LCDR Worf. Who is gonna win???
Galaxy class, at least in TNG, was a paper tiger---a glass jaw that would put it down for the count with some well placed shots. It appeared to be made tougher later on for the war.
I think Bridge Commander's Galaxy was a bit more manuerverable than the Galaxy should have been, in which case the Defiant would have an easy time lining up its phaser cannons with the Galaxy vulnerabilities fairly easily.
But, one was designed as a fighter, and the other as a capital ship of exploration and science.
Enty D would be wrecked by the defiant not enty E that would crush defiant in turn
We really need to see what voyager and equinox would look like if they stuck together for one season
This season that never was 🎻
And Phaser Strips
And Phaser Strips
And Phaser Strips
And Phaser Strips
i don't know if it's been done before but i wounder how the fight would play out USS Defiant VS an upgraded dominion war galaxy class
Did you not have the option of targeting their weapons/targeting array? That would've been my choice given the smaller ship with cloaking and also very fixed weaponry.
I've done this battle many times on BCR 1.2 and can predict that the D wipes the floor with the Defiant, UNLESS the Defiant can sit underneath it and avoid the torps. That, or sit on top and knock out the impulse.
The Galaxy class looked way way more maneuverable than it should be. In cannon the Defiant should be able to literally fly circles around it. Speedboat vs aircraft carrier differences there. The *reason* the Galaxy class had phaser banks all over it was *because* it maneuvered like a capitol class does.
The defiant would never be alone. Heavy escort ship. Ideally, 3 or 4 would be together. Run a sim with that
The Galaxy class Enterprise D would have wiped the board against the Klingon bird of prey in Generations, Riker just had to say divert shield power to weapons, or just change shield frequency.
Geordi tried the "complete spectrum" (as he said in the battle in 'Generations') of shield frequencies - but the Duras sisters saw what he did through the visor spy and adapt. Pretty sure they did also counter the Enterprise's attacks mostly through adapting the weapon frequencies.
only way to beat a galaxy in the defiant is to stay in tight....if you stay back the Galaxy would just pick you apart with them phasers.
Why is the Defiant not using its high output Phaser beam point i has to giving the ship onmi-directional arc of fire
Defiant basically dominion war variant with quantum torpedos….. How about Galaxy dominion war variant upgrade is more fair armed with quantum torpedos as well….
Defiant would have to win against the original D. It was designed and built to fight the Borg. Galaxy class ships simply kept failing in combat.
Round 1 would have been a loss against a human player of your skill level.
Hmm shows how good a fight with a cloaked ship could have been in generations, like I kinda knew the defiant was gonna win off the bat with the start one, and the tactic makes sense, hold where the least defense is, the lower half and have at it, and your actually kinda using the run away tactic he did in the movie to keep the defiant at arms length with the second fight actually
as I always thought it kinda needed a refit or maybe some work with its defensive armaments, as what sense does it make that the engineering section has all the torpedo launchers, but not the saucer, like just put a bunch where the rim is, like two pointing front, two on either side maybe pointing down, and two aft in the disconnection area so its got aft defenses
and the JJ films actually did something kinda smart with their version of the enterprise, they mounted the torpedo launchers broadside like an old sailing ship on the engineering section, and those pointing down on the bottom would have ripped the defiant apart
like imagine a bunch on the bottom, like 3 with a triangle like pattern just going straight down or aimed backwards as it flies over something, that would be a very bad day for any ship facing it like that and maybe two extra forward, as imagine the damage a string like that could have done
as I've always thought they should have had two extra torpedo launchers at the front of the engineering section on either end of the deflector dish too, as imagine full spread if it came in from both sides and the center as an ice breaker like one of the pulses from the deflector dish
then the secondary hull truly WOULD have been the battle part of it lol
and then two vertical phaser strips above the shuttlebay on the saucer just to give that area some defense, the spot where they put the two on the galaxy x plus the torpedo launcher
that honestly looks like something you'd see sticking out of a san franssico trolly to power it really
you know something abit more subtile that fits the spirit of the thing that could fire both aft and forward while clearing the bridge from that angle, rather than just the venture upgrade where they literally accidentally left some of those parts on the 4 foot model from the D refit and made it cannon
with the phaser strips ontop of the engines, which could work too, but that might be too much
but I guess that's kind of what the ross class really is if you think about it, although I think its engineering hull would look far better on an ambassador as a mix of the two versions of that, than as a replacement for the galaxy class
but its a shame they just didnt really upgrade or redo any of that instead of writing it out like they did
as imaging ramming the scimitar with the saucer of the D instead of the E, it would have been like ramming a starbase into it instead of a shuttle
granted I dont think Guianain would have been two pleased about her permanent relocation to the bridge of the scimitar however lol
The Defiant would definitely win against the Galaxy class. Not even Galaxy class shields would hold long against quantum torpedoes and pulse phasers.
Why didn't the Defiant cloak until it got close?
View screen doesnt work with no sensors? idk i would still think it would still work just cant lock on target lol