Speer Gold Dot .38 Special +P 135 gr Ammo Test
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- Опубликовано: 8 фев 2025
- Simple penetration and expansion test of the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel cartridge, .38 Special +P, 135 grain hollowpoint, using a diluted form of SIM-TEST Ballistic Testing Media. This format is comparable to ballistic gel, and includes four layers of denim. Video includes brief overview of the cartridge, recoil shots, and one shot test. Post-shot evaluation shows bullet path through the block, average diameter, and retained weight. Test gun was a Smith & Wesson model 438, 1 7/8" barrel. Advertised muzzle velocity is 860 fps, my 5-shot average was 835 fps.
CAMERA: Sony HDR-CX560, 60p, 28 mbps, 1920 x 1080 HD.
EDITING: Sony Vegas Movie Studio HD Platinum 10, MP4, 30p, 16 mbps.
Don't know if you are still around doing videos, but for the hundreds and hundreds of "ammo testers" you are the only one who knows how to do an ammo test. You are absolutely the best doing this. No one else comes even closer to you.
Rumor is that he's still around.....thanks!
We really appreciate these tests you perform. The better half she started carrying a S&W 36 in .38spl in the summer months and we've been looking for self defense rounds and i believe these fit the bill.
Very impressive, one of the best 38 special presentations I've seen. Thanks for sharing!
Excellent review. Thanks from 13 years in the future.
All of your videos are very well done, my favorite ammo videos on youtube. Thanks
Thank you very much for all the reviews you do! I have been carrying Gold Dot's for many years. My wife just got her the Ruger LCR and this is the ammo I have for her. Nice to see it keeping with my expectations from Speer.
Ammo selection for my Ruger LCR has been a concern so I'm very grateful to have these test results available. It would be a bummer to have to go through all of the incredible time and expense trying to test ammo on my own. What a relief to find a cartridge that will perform in my snubbie. So glad I didn't just go with the Winchester PDX1 at Walmart because it's easily available. Thank you for the peace of mind.
I see that this is 13 years ago. I did a double take when I saw you talking about ammo available at Walmart. The good old days ....
I just scored a 438 and I'm excited to carry it for backup. I do like Speer Gold Dot and your videos ROCK. Thanks for all you do.
wow... that is the most beautiful .38 bullet I have ever seen in sim-testing. I WILL be picking some of these up for my LCR. Great test, Thank You...
I just purchased a S&W 638, and got some of these to go with it. I've used Speer Gold Dot for years, and swear by it. It's all I'll ever carry for a duty/defensive round.
Keep up the good work. As a result of your videos I have made great strides in selecting personal defense rounds.
As simple as your local science fair testing from the CC or HS should be, your use of the scientific method to produce unbiased data from tests that can be reproduced is brilliant. Hypothesis-will the 135 grain JHP penetrate, and expand to the levels the FBI have established, as well as Dr Fackler et al? Answer-yes. As always, great production values and first rate equipment. And even some humor thrown in, it doesn't get any better. Thanks.
This load is currently being issued/used by many law enforcement agencies including NYPD and Chicago PD as the standard duty load for backup snubs and the few officers still grandfathered in to carry a .38/.357 revolver as their duty weapon. From all reports it is a very effective load on the street and does significantly better than the old "FBI load" from these little 1.5-2" barrel revolvers, while still doing well in a full size 3-6" barrel.
I owned a new unfired DA only ruger G P NY model 4" .38spl for 30mo in the mid 2000s. I used the Speer Gold Dot .38spl +P & the buffalo bore +P load on armed security details.
They make a 1.5" barrel snub nose?
Excellent video. One piece of information I wanted: What does this ammo cost?
Paul Harrell wassuh Paul keep on making good videos
2020 prices are .75 to 1.30 per round, depending on the specific website and quantity ordered.
Now about $1.50 per round.
$69 for a box of 50 at The Franklin Exchange in Beaumont,Tx. They buy gold, collectibles, estate sales, and guns and ammo. Yesterday, they had about 10 boxes of these. I passed, bought a 100 round box of Remington green and white box 125 grain +p SJHP for $69.00 at a pawn shop(only $4 more than a box of FMJ). Shot 12 of them out of my Taurus 856 2 inch at my bro-in-law's. Sadly vanya, that has taken the place of firing off 2-300 rounds at a range.
That's a great point. The penetration in this case met the FBI's 12 inch minimum, but bone deflections are likely to modify that in actual practice. Maximum expansion and retention are not sufficient in and of themselves to incapacitate an individual. Great video, and very professional delivery. Thank you for your work.
Nice, have these exact cartridges in my Ruger LCR backup ( Or carry around the house in shorts 😅 ) . Pretty accurate too, didn't get a chance to chrono these...glad to see you did...nice mushroom for that velocity. Gold Dots have always been my favorite for both factory loadings and handloading...never disappointed yet.
Just picked up a Taurus 85 Ultralight a few days ago, traveled around to a bunch of shops before I could find some defensive ammo for it. I usually run Federal HST in my guns, because of their excellent performance in your vids, but they didn't have any in .38. They did, however, have +P Gold Dots, which are always my second choice. So now my little snubby has some bite!
Digging for gold..dot. Groan!
I loved it and got a chuckle! Appreciate your great work over the years tnoutdoors9! Be well!
I thought it was clever lol
This ammo so far has the greatest reviews, i am definitely making a large purchase for my 340pd
Both this and Remington Golden Sabre 125gr + p jhp are some of the best choices in this caliber for sd..Buffalo Bore and Hornady are great as well. 38 spl has plenty of power..the perfect balance IMO.
sjr I keep Remington Golden Sabers in my S&W 642, Speer Gold Dot short barrels in my Kimber K6S and my girlfriend's Ruger SP101. I feel we're quite adequately protected.
Good video and thanks for the info! I traded two boxes of Winchester ranger 38 Special +P+ in on one box of Speer Gold Dot & a cheap holster for my .44 Mag after watching this video. I've seen several different 38 Special rounds not expand, and the Gold Dots, no matter the caliber, seem to function perfectly every time. Thanks again for the great videos!
This is one of my favorite guns oh my goodness. Just a beautiful weapon.
This is a pretty impressive performance for the underpowered 38spl +p.
I think the 327 Fed Mag filled the void between the weak 38spl and full powered 357 magnum. Now I just wish it would gain more support from the Industry and Consumers.
I would buy it.
Weak 38 special??
38 Spl +P SD rounds are ALSO a perfect gap filler between standard pressure 38, and 357. What are you talking about ?
love the professionalism of your videos, great job hope to see more.
Thanks for this excellent(as usual) test. Very well photographed and narrated. Have had difficulty finding this ammo here in So Cal but located some today on the 'Net and two boxes are on the way. $60 including shipping. Should work well in my Smith 642.
I found two boxes today for $67ea. I got them. I passed on two 50 round boxes of Winchester Ranger T 180 grain 40 S&W to get the 38s. And two boxes of 165 grain HST's. It was a place that buys precious metals, collectibles, estate sales. They also have a lot of guns and ammo. Until COVID, they were dirt cheap on ammo but they have stuff nobody else has had in a long time.
@wcropp1 .357 magnum is, in many ways, a "modernized" .38 special, loaded much closer to capacity without a huge difference in overall size. There's a big difference between the two if you have enough barrel length to take advantage of the extra powder in the .357, but out of a snubbie there's not a huge difference between .38 +P and .357. Once a pressure range is set for a cartridge it usually doesn't change as time goes by, which generally makes newer cartridges more size efficient.
I would highly recommend that anyone who carries a .38 snubbie seriously consider this as a primary carry load. .38 special has a less than stellar reputation for expansion at snub nose velocities--this round being specifically designed for short barrels is a big plus. I'm pretty sure the Gold Dots are one of the only hollow points that will expand fairly consistently out of a snubbie--I doubt that many people are carrying 4 inch barreled revolvers these days. The same can be said for .380.
First off, Not to sound like a "kiss ass" but your Video's are very much appreciated... 2nd. it seems like no matter what caliber you test in Gold Dot.. It turns out to be a great choice for self defense, I don't have the resources myself to these types of test. and thats why you sir, have single handily turned me in to a Speer Gold Dot Fan lol. Thanks from all of us at the gun nut community
Thanks for the video and the addition of slow motion! Another great review, thanks for posting.
Writing this response after hearing "Let's go digging for Gold!...Dot."
Needed something to do while I soak that wordplay in.
Great stuff tnoutdoors, I'm a recent subscriber.
As my dad would say "That is a lot of fuck you up in a small package".
+MrMudNugget Sounds like a funny guy.
Hard to beat. It appears to do slightly better than the old 158 gr +p lead hp in a snubby. Speer has done great engineering. These are specifically designed for the light and heavy clothing FBI test protocols. Barrier penetration is less certain, but they should be fine against car side windows and regular window glass. If u have to shoot through a windshield or rear window, it is a good idea to fire multiple aimed shots at the threat. The first impact (or 2) will undermine the structural integrity of the safety glass. Or do it right from the get-go and use 00 buck if possible......STAY SAFE!!
One of the best choices for a snub 38
Good review as always,Thanks for your time said it before you do the best ammo testing on youtube real helpful info.
this load is impressive for 2/3" barrel .38spl use. It was designed with the NYPD for the snub .38 revolvers. I used it in my Ruger G P model in the late 2000s. id suggest it to anyone looking for snub type .38spl +P.
This video is just spectacular. Camera work, narration, the whole thing. To be honest, I've seen stuff of much lower quality on Outdoor TV and the like. Have you thought about hitting those guys up for a job?
The Speer 135 GD JHPs are definitely a force to be reckoned with. I'll be picking up a box for my J-frame post haste.
Excellent. I'm glad you've started testing .38 Spcl. since it's such a popular concealed carry cal. If you have access to a snubbie .357 I'll send you some of the 135 gr. GD short barrel in that cal. Prob performs just like this one with a bit more penetration and more pain in hand.
Excellent vid!! I appreciate the detailed information you include. Thanks for sharing
Another great vid, thank you.
I was carrying and shooting at the range the 158 grain .357 GD's in my 1 & 7/8ths inch barreled 340, talk about a fireball ;D
I figured that if I missed I'd still catch them on fire, moved to the Hornady Critical Defense .38+P's for faster follow up shots and to prolong the life of the gun.
I can't recall if you've done those yet, but if not just shoot me a message and I'll send you a box for testing.
Take care
It seems like there's a lot of gimmicky ammo out there. I've watched your testing of the pdx and the powerball. I appreciate your testing, it helps to separate the contenders from the pretenders. I just want get what I'm paying for, and with all the various brands of ammo out there, it becomes confusing. Thanks for your effort, it is appreciated.
@tnoutdoors9
My wife just purchased a Ruger LCR .38 Special just a few hours ago after renting one at our local gun store/range. The salesman there recommended this very same ammo for her gun for self-defense. I just wanted to express my sincere thanks for doing this video that shows how well these rounds perform in a short barrel revolver. Your awesome tests really do help people feel confident in their choice for SD. I love your videos. Been a subscriber for a while and you're A+++ :)
Great video. Gold Dots are my primary defense round in my 9mm and .45 ACP
Great review. Funny...the more I read and see about Speer Gold Dots, the more I think they're about the best thing going. There are a lot of excellent performers to choose from, but I haven't seen anything yet that seems better than Speer's stuff.
Target Sports USA has this for $19.99 for a box of 50! Will be buying for my SP 101.
Just paid $50 for 20 bullets, wow
The velocity of 860 fps for the 135gr load is reported from a 2" barrel and the higher velocity reported for the 125gr load is reported from a 4" barrel. That would explain what you called "quite a difference" in the velocities. I have a feeling both would be similar if shot from the same length barrel.
I love your videos so much.
@rifleslol This confused me in the past as well--it's because .38 special is an old black powder cartridge, which took up a lot more room than modern smokeless powder. Most manufacturers these days do not load .38 specials anywhere near their capacity for fear of people blowing up older guns not designed to handle the higher pressures. However, this extra space in the cartridge allow the use of fairly large bullets, even if they're not moving super fast.
I use this load in my S&W 442 . Works like a champ.
me too
Speer has exact same ammo but box don't say short barrel. Is it a difference?
Thanks for the information, very helpful.
@theKaarvaag1 I'd also add that a DA would have a field day with an "exotic" load or custom made load like that in a real life scenario. DA's love things named like that and that aren't your typical factory load. There are so many decent factory loads out there, there is no need to go with a non-standard load that will only add to any possible legal woes after the fact.
So, that looked like it opened beautifully. I've seen this short barrel gold dot .38 +p both do well, and fail to do much at all, in gel tests. Of course there are some minor differences in testing, and one shouldn't rule out a load based on a one shot test. To be honest, I am unsure about this round. I carry two reloads of this load on 5 rd quik strips in a pouch on my belt. But in my LCR right now, the cylinder is loaded up with Underwood Xtreme Penetrator 140 gr .38 special +p. I just don't know if I trust the Speee to reliably open or penetrate deep enough.
Great video TN. Glad that you are well. I've always loved the S&W Bodyguard, am glad you chose it. Loved the frog's in the background even more tho... < : )
exTAO109 Background stunt frogs are expensive to rent for something like this, I was surprised.
I'm waiting for Federal to make a HST .38 Special.
+1
was looking for it in .38 special was unsure if they had it or not, not yet I guess. I have the 130gr+p federal hydrashoc in .38special for my j frame. Good round, thinking about looking into these 135 gr+p gold dots tho. Have tried, and in fact currently have 5 rounds of the winchester pdx1 158gr+p loaded up in my j frame. Not as smooth, and more stout than the federals that's for sure as well as more bang and muzzle flash.
Your long wait is over.... www.ammoland.com/2017/05/federal-premium-expands-personal-defense-hst-micro-lineup-38-special-p-load/
I could not agree more. If Massad carries this then I will as well.
Another great test vid TNOutdoors. I reference these often. Many thanks!
great ammo. i have this in my EDC, S&W 442. thanks for the review.
another good vid brother. i carry a s&w 637 airweight. very informative.
Me too.
Excellent video,very informative. I will be using these for my at home snub.
Seems just a little short on penetration, but expansion looked good.
Great video love 38 spc.
Best I've seen for 38
I see many folks using 4 layers of denim for these tests which doesn't make sense when a person wearing a denim jacket might be wearing only a t-shirt & maybe a long-sleeved shirt or flannel shirt/sweatshirt. Guess I would like to see something more realistic. Another channel's test there was no expansion with only gel, wonder if the 4 layers are giving unrealistic expansion? Gonna check other tests for this load, thank you.
4 layers of denim doesn't mean that a person is actually wearing them. 4 layers of denim offers pretty much the same resistance as the clothes someone would wear in Alaska during winter time. It's just representative of the maximum resistance very heavy clothing can offer in pretty much any climate. What would make more sense: cover the gel block with 5 or 6 different layers of different types of clothing or simply get 4 four layers of the same heavy material that would offer the same resistance? It's more convenient and practical
As always, great education & film making.
Looks to be a good load. Gold Dots seem to be pretty solid for every caliber.
Sorry but that is incorrect. The 135gr load was specifically designed for the NYPD. (New York Police Department) When Speer went to the NYPD to show off their 9mm ammo in hopes of getting the contract some of the "older" officers asked why they didn't have a short barrel .38 Special load for their snub nose J frames. I think it was only 6 months later Speer was back at the NYPD showing off their new .38 Special +P load with a new 135gr bullet. Both were adopted BTW.
It's two with same specs but one box say short barrel. Is there a difference????
I didn't realize the .38 caliber rounds were so long. It looks like they could have much large expansion with a deeper hollowpoint, with results more like a 9mm. I wonder if that would be possible? Maybe it's just the design of the bullet.
Great ammo for snubs. I like the 357 mag short barrel for my 19’s too. Thanks.
Very good video, top quality ammo, keep up the great informational vids
I think this is a great choice for my Ruger LCR. Thanks for the info.
Good video just bought a Taurus .38 ultralite a month ago. Ordered Corbons for it but might pick up some of this ammo in near future...
looks good although that muzzle flash at the beginning of the video looks like it could be a concern if you have to use it at night in a self defense situation.
@woa11 To put things in a better perspective, the same airsoft BB would have to travel at 7800fps or about mach 7.
I have a 1973 era Smith Model 60 and called Smith and Wesson to ask them if this handgun will handle the Speer Gold Dot +P 135 gr round. After giving them the serial number of this all steel stainless .38 spl they told me that it would handle this round. Their suggestion was that I not fire a steady diet of it through the gun but it is strong enough to handle this round.
This round and any other would be perfectly fine for your model 60. That gun is a strong sturdy firearm and even tho some of the older guns don't say + p on the barrel they are good to go with + p ammunition. Especially if the gun is stainless you have no worries. Hope this helps.
And yet so many other bullet makers manufacture .38 special rounds for snubs, yet test them and they perform adequately out of 4-inch barrels.
Love it...great round, great video!
@tnoutdoors9
Right those grizzly extremes look wicked. However penetration would probably only be like 8 to 10 inches. My brother in law tested those in 9mm shooting into knoxx ballistics gel and got 7 inches of penetration but expansion of 1.3 inches!!! How could that not stop somebody?
Great video, well presented, useful info... Semper Fi!
Can we just ignore of verbiage on the box stating “short barrel” is they’re 135gr?
Are you saying that Speer only makes the short barrel (and only the short barrel) in that weight?
i don't own a .357./.38 but this one suprised me pretty good performance.
I carry this in my 38 special and it works great
Looks like a good round. Nice mushroom.
Would you please test the Cor-bon 110gr DPX load in 38 special? Thank you sir.
Awesome ammo Gold Dot is a top brand !
Good test
very nice results!!
great ammo testing tnoutdoors9, I wonder what the short barrel cartridge would do in a longer barreled revolver.
looks promising. thanks for this video
Nicely done. I'll have to get some of these once I move back to Arkansas. I can't find any of them down here in Texas.
Would you mind testing the Hornady Critical Defense .38 special 110 grain, by chance?
Good video man, thanks
do you think this round would perform just as well or better in a 3 inch barrel ?? Or is this round just for short 1-2 inch barrels??
It should work great. I just ordered a few boxes for my 4" barrel revolvers.
+big daddy wow
Great test as always tn.
You mentioned the 125gr rounds. In that they are not a "short barrel" round, how would they perform in this same test gun compared to the 135gr short barrel rounds?
Why not use cotton t shirts, flannel, polo shirts etc and sweat shirts or even a Carhart . Since hardly no one wears a denim jacket.just curious, good video
tnoutdoors9 says in other videos that the 4 layers of denim are to replicate testing of FBI protocol and/or IWBA standards. Here's an article that goes more into detail about why 4 layers of denim are used.
"Why Four Layers of Denim Cloth?
There continues to be misunderstanding about testing JHP handgun bullet expansion using gelatin blocks covered with four layers of heavy denim cloth.
The four-layer heavy denim test was jointly developed by engineer Duncan MacPherson and California Highway Patrol to force manufacturers to design bullets that will expand more reliably when heavy clothing is encountered in actual shooting events. According to MacPherson:
Modern JHP handgun bullet designs perform very reliably in testing; expansion failures are rare. It seems likely that occasional expansion failures in service are inevitable, but the number of failures in [actual California Highway Patrol shooting incidents] appeared excessive to me even though they were a relatively small fraction of all shootings. The unavoidable conclusion seemed to be that these expansion failures were a result of the fact that the expansion of existing JHP bullet designs were not robust; in engineering terminology, lack of robustness simply means that small changes in conditions are likely to cause failure. Initially, this conclusion seemed surprising because “heavy clothing” stages have been common in handgun ammunition testing protocols ever since this approach was initiated by the FBI handgun ammunition test protocol defined in 1989, and the best modern JHP bullet designs have almost no failures either in these stages or against bare gelatin. A little more thought made this seem less surprising, because the “heavy clothing” stages in various tests seem to have been selected to represent specific clothing without any systematic investigation directed at evaluating what aspects of the cloth were critical.
A thoughtful investigation of the effects of soft barriers (e.g., clothing, as opposed to the hard barriers represented by building materials and automobile glass) seemed to me to be overdue. [California Highway Patrol Firearms Training Unit Lieutenant] Ed Fincel agreed with this assessment, and he, State of California Associate Procurement Engineer Nick Miloskovich and I set about implementing this investigation in the last quarter of 1996. This activity was very successful, and has led to a new ammunition test protocol [International Wound Ballistics Association (IWBA) Handgun Ammunition Specification]; ammunition satisfying the requirements of this test protocol has been developed [Winchester Ranger T] and is now commercially available in .40 S&W. This new ammunition has much more reliable expansion after penetrating soft barriers than any ammunition previously available in this caliber. Improved .45ACP and 9mm ammunition designs are in the final development stages.1
(MacPherson’s article presents 3-4 pages of additional, detailed information about how four layers of denim cloth was selected.)
The test protocol was established in 1998 by IWBA, which recently disbanded as an organization. It is superior to the FBI Heavy Clothing test event.
As described in IWBA Handgun Ammunition Specification Supplement, section 6.2:
Most expansion failures of JHP handgun bullets reported in actual shootings where hard barriers are not involved are probably due to factors that effectively plug up the hollow point cavity and reduce pressure in this area, although the dynamics model that occasionally leads to this result is not completely known in detail. This requirement in the IWBA Handgun Ammunition Specification is designed to force JHP bullet designs that expand much more reliably against soft barriers (hard barriers are discussed in more detail below). This requirement was selected after experimentation to provide a standardized, inexpensive, and precisely defined soft barrier that was a stressing but reasonable protocol for ammunition evaluation; it does not represent a simulation of specific clothing. The JHP bullet design features required to satisfy this requirement are well understood, and ammunition having these design features expands much more consistently and reliably against soft barriers than ammunition without these design features....
Therefore the four-layer heavy denim test is NOT intended to simulate any type of clothing; it is merely an engineering evaluation tool to assess the ability of JHP handgun bullets to resist plugging and expand robustly.
Properly prepared and calibrated 10% ordnance gelatin is the most accurate realistic soft tissue simulant currently available. It provides a reasonable indication of how a bullet can be expected to perform in soft tissues. All other barrier materials aside, clothing and bone are the primary reasons why a bullet recovered from a human body may not resemble one fired into a block of gelatin.
A well-designed bullet exhibits little difference in expansion and penetration between the bare gelatin test and four-layer heavy denim test. In actual shootings, performance usually falls between results exhibited in these two tests, unless bone is hit early in the penetration path. Thus bullets that expand reliably in four-layer denim testing perform well on the street.
Most modern, premium JHP handgun ammunition from U.S. manufacturers is designed to perform well against the IWBA four-layer heavy denim test.
Nowadays, unless the bullet hits bone or an intervening obstacle, or impacts the body at an extreme angle, it is more likely to perform in human soft tissues almost exactly as it performs in standard ordnance gelatin. More often than not, a bullet designed to perform well in the IWBA four-layer denim test that is recovered from a body looks like the same bullet fired into a block of gelatin. It did not used to be that way a decade ago, and criticism about the limitations of gelatin testing was valid indeed."
Source:
FirearmsTactical.com
TacticalBriefs
April 2006
4 layers of denim doesn't mean that a person is actually wearing them. 4 layers of denim offers pretty much the same resistance as the clothes someone would wear in Alaska during winter time. It's just representative of the maximum resistance very heavy clothing can offer in pretty much any climate. What would make more sense: cover the gel block with 5 or 6 different layers of different types of clothing or simply get 4 four layers of the same heavy material that would offer the same resistance? It's more convenient and practical
Beautiful mushroom
thanks for the videos
That load is in my Ruger LCR right now as my EDC.
still interested in its performance....
I would love to see this same test with the same gun and Hornady Critical Defense... Please :)
so dose the short barrel mean its made to use just in the short bbl gun or can u unse it in a longer bbl that wouldnt have went throw to ppl easy
Retest in a 4 inch revolver? Would be interested to see the velocity increase or if there is any.
hmm, multiple other testers have had this and the 125g version fail to expand then through denim.