*Note: I'd like to point out that I make a mistake at @12:00 in the video when I talk about the charging losses at the end. Tesla doesn't include charging losses in the kWh added on the display screen. The charging session showed 97 kWh total was added to the pack, and I said that not all of that ended up in the pack because of charging losses. That's wrong, all 97 kWh did end up in the pack, we don't know how many kWh were lost to charging inefficiencies and thermal management. At @2:09 I mention how hard the thermal management system was working to keep the battery and components cool during charging and that takes a lot of energy to do so. I had thought that Tesla included the charging losses, but since they don't we don't know exactly how many kWh the Supercharger delivered to the car. The Model S has a 100 kWh pack and we put 97 kWh in, so there were about 3 kWh left in when the car reached 0% stated because Tesla does have a low-end buffer that allows people to drive for a while after the SOC reaches 0. In Europe where Teslas use the CCS plug, the charging stations display the total delivered kWh, so owners can compare the total delivered to the total that ended up in the pack. If you're interested in learning more about charging losses in Tesla vehicles check out Bjorn's video: ruclips.net/video/iLmIIe9N_aI/видео.html
I really like your charging tests. Several RUclipsrs present the charging curve like a commentator of a horse race. Your deep dive analysis and explanations along the way are awesome. The charging graphs are invaluable. This is a great service to the EV community. Tesla and other OEMs constantly tweak their charging curves. How frequently will you recheck to see if your graphs are still representative or not?
I will redo a test when the OEM announces an update. I'm waiting for Ford to push out its Mach-E charging curve update (it's due any day) so I can test that one over again.
Love your videos. Great job. 👍🏽 I love that you put it in to perspective but explaining to noobs the reality of percentages on the road. Perfectly explained. Typically I need 80-85 percent on long trips. I pull in around 10 and leave around 90. That's the reality on the road. Thanks!!
Thorough explanation and documentation of the charging curve and 70MPH Highway Range Test (HRT) on your previous video. 💯 I thought we were going to drive it at 70 mph until you couldn’t sustain 70 mph but I don’t think that would’ve changed it that much. Tesla would’ve wanted you to drive it until it stopped and couldn’t move to show the real capacity but they don’t recommend that for users so it is what it is. 👍🏼
The problem is I need to time the test to when I arrive at a charging station. If I had gone to the next exit and turned around, it would have added about 12 miles. I don't know if it would have made it - maybe, but honestly, I don't think too many owners are comfortable driving far after the SOC reaches zero, so I think stopping a few miles past zero SOC is fair.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Totally agree on consumer usage. A few miles past zero with not a lot of Roadies on service trucks is probably more than anyone other than Kyle would go. 😁
From my pov it is quite confusing from Tesla side to expect from a driver to go below 0% 0miles. From that point you have no clue when the car will shut down due to low voltage, it could happen after 12 miles or after a couple of feet. All car manufacturers have a buffer on the lower end of the battery so people end with an empty battery in less of a mile to the charging station, but only if you asume that 0% is empty. I’m sorry but all this EPA range can be accomplished if you run the car till it shuts down is just PR-nonsense, taking into account that Elon thinks PR is only there to misinform the public. 🤦♂️
Yes, it does, It pulls close to its 50 kW max rate all the way up to like 80% - a straight line. But that's not too hard to do if you're only pulling 48 kW! ;)
Yes, for Joe Consumer, having a flat charge curve, even if lower is easier to understand and plan. With my 2012 Leaf, I’d be overjoyed with the i3 flat 50 kw charge curve. I think eTron with flat 150 kw charge curve is best out there. Too bad the car isn’t efficient.
Yes, the only times (bad weather aside) that people need to charge beyond around 60% are where destination charging is not available at a destination and this is the last fast charger before the destination, such as in parts of Montana or elsewhere in the the rural west and southwest.
I totally agree for most of my road trips I am normally charging from 10% to 60% with occasional 70% if I get distracted at one of the shops near supercharger. I like to stop every 2-2.5 hours and this was even before I got EV.
Interesting video and some good information. If I may add a bit of constructive criticism, perhaps a bit more editing of your videos might make them a bit more interesting. You have a tendency (not unlike most of RUclips posters) to ramble on with superfluous chatter. Keep your commentary concise and on point. Just a suggestion. Thanks again for your informative videos. Cheers!
Thanks for this. This is a big improvement from the Model S P100D I took on a road trip a couple of years back. That one added 6 hours to my 14 hour (by ICE [or hybrid]) drive using ABetterRoutePlanner. ABRP has become better also, as has the Tesla in-car app, but only marginally. The new charge curve would only take about one hour off my total charging. For me, that still isn't good enough. I can do 14 hours, maybe 16 hours in the drive and still be profitable. 18-19 hours is just not workable yet. Guess I have to wait for the Cyber Truck... Or for technology to improve so that BEVs are as good as ICE for long-haul driving (that isn't vacation). It's so frustrating, because I really want to move to BEVs for the planet, but I have to be able to make money. I get why BEV makers are only focusing on city dwellers, but there are a lot of us that need to live in the rural areas for you to be able to eat and clothe yourselves, and we are running on really thin margins. Tesla is, by far, the best right now, I just hope they keep improving. And take the improvements in to the Y & 3; the prices of the S Plaid are a little steep for me.
Look forward to seeing charging curve graph overlays for BEVs that have competitive changeling curves in the future... Like Lucid and Hyundai E-GMP based models for example.... Since this is the only channel the fully feeds the geek in me lol...
Thanks Tom for this fabulous report. Anticipating delivery of a S-LR in 2-3 weeks, I’m very curious about charge rate. Do you think LR rate is same as Plaid? As an EE data geek, miles of range seems more important than state of charge. Can we use your graph and simply convert state of charge to miles assuming 100% = 380 miles? Thanks for 100 & 200 mile times.
It’s half an hour for 5-80% which is 75% of the 300 miles. So it’s 1hour pause every 300 miles(which is not the best for the battery) or 30min pause every 225 miles, which still is pretty reasonable.
Great review! Couple of questions: 1. Can you share a CSV or excel file with the numbers? 2. Can you do a miles/minute charge in your reviews? (In reality, nobody should care about kw or % per minute - what’s important is how many miles can you get per minute of charging - this will also ensure the efficiency of the car is taken into consideration - eg 100kw charged in a HummerEV would offer very different experience than 100kw charged in a Model 3… same applies for MachE vs Model Y, Lucid Air vs Model S, etc)
You should also record voltage and current separately for the charging curve. This would give an insight into voltages (including voltage range from min to max of the BMS) and currents that the superchargers V3 deliver. And it would allow comparisons between the 110s battery packs in this Plaid and the 96s battery packs in the Model 3 and older S/X.
Tom, awesome content... 👍 Just one question who say the plaid has a 100kWh battery pack? Did Tesla confirm that? Only reason I ask is on my model 3 the kWh added to the pack is what is shown on the screen as Tesla captures that data at the BMS level not the input level, their is also a special adapter and ODB2 type software you can setup to see the different SoC the battery is at, what you see on the screen is what’s added not what is coming in thus the loss would be very little from the BMS to the pack.. Unlike CCS that Measures at the charger level and displays at the charger, Tesla SC is fully integrated no display at the charger and no Measurement from the charger .. all the measurement is local to the onboard systems in the car so it’s much more accurate than CCS cars .. iMO that battery pack is bigger than what people thinks, but does not matter much 100kWh 300 miles under perfect conditions real world is the number to truly keep an eye on, can’t wait to see what Lucid can do.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Hi Tom sorry I missed that video will look for it, did they count all the cells and calculate the actual Capacity of one of the cells? Or just add up the modules? anyways as I said it truly does not matter as much as knowing going 300 miles @70mph in perfect conditions is doable.. BTW in your range test video the screen did indicate 91kWh used for that 300 miles no? Do you know what the usable capacity is set to? Or does Tesla actually gives us access to 100% of the pack?
Tom, if possible, it will be cool to do a charging session on EA with a battery pre-conditioned. Probably possible when SC is beside EA. This way we can see charging efficiency.
Tom, does the Model S Plaid (and other EV) go thru an after charging BMS balancing routine "after" each charging session? I thought it took place for EVs while they charge? And how much energy is used on average to balance the pack? Just curious, since you alluded to this issues in the post. If you know the info offhand. Thx again for the post.
thanks for doing these Tom. Since we use primarily Level 2 chargers on our cross US trips, do you think we can extrapolate the charging curve for those chargers? ie - would get 150 kw until your level 3 charge curve drops below 150?
Tom your reporting again is second to none. I watch all your videos and I was wondering if I could pick your brain about an issue I need to solve and I believe many more are going to be running into this problem as more and more people are going to be changing over to EV’s. I am close to retirement and we had bought a new build condo two years ago which is about to be completed this January. When we purchased the condo we paid a small surcharge to have power accessible at our parking spot. I also recently put an order in for a Model Y. My dilemma is, what is the best charger to install in the underground parking spot? Do I use the Tesla charger and will I be able to communicate with the car from eight floors above in a concrete building or is the Tesla charger even capable of this or is there a better solution to this problem. I imagine as more and more people move into higher density living arrangements this is going to be a more prevalent problem for more and more people.
Hey Ray. You probably don't need a smart-charger since you most likely won't have WiFi connectivity in the underground garage. As for communicating with the car through the Tesla app, often buildings install cell phone repeaters in underground parking lots. If you have that, you should be able to communicate with the car. Do you get a cell phone signal in the garage? I'd probably recommend getting the Tesla wall connector since it's reasonably priced, has the right connector so you don't need an adapter, and delivers 48-amps. How much power is available at your parking spot?
Hi Tom. I am from India & Tesla is currently testing model 3 & Y at various locations in our country, charging at 50-60KW DC fast charging stations. Can you make a video of charging a Tesla at a 50KW DC fast-charger and plot the charging curve?
Thank you for the detailed numbers. However, I don't think the added kWh shown on the display is what the charger delivered, but it is what was added into the battery. I am not exactly sure how this is measured, maybe it is calculated from the BMS using the SoC, maybe it counts the kWh send into the battery. Why I think this is not what the charger delivers ist just because it may be the same like for the Model 3. With my Model 3 I recognized once that it counts added kWh in this display just because of heated battery when starting the charging session at a low temperature. In such a case, my car shows more kWh added than the charger devilered, measured at third-party chargers with accurate information. The bill from Tesla shown in the display and later in the account has always additional energy added compared to the added kWh shown in the charging screen. So I am pretty sure you added 97kWh into the battery, which should then be like 90kWh of usable energy while driving (in trip meter) due to charging and discharging losses (my Model 3 shows 8% through ScanMyTesla). It may be a little bit more depending on how the 97kWh was actually measured, e.g. if it would be SoC counted, which I assume, it may only be about 4% losses and 93kWh available for driving measured with trip meter.
@Tom M. - have you done a similar test on the Non-Plaid version of the refreshed Model S? I'm assuming it is slightly slower. I'm really awaiting this test with a Model S with a 4680 cell. At that point, I expect a reduction in charging times of at least 2x, and that is when I trade in my 2015 Model S. I expect the wait to be quite long for any car using the 4680 cells, for this reason alone.
Yes, but these newer models no longer get the free unlimited charging that Tesla was offering (it was like a peace offering for not supporting the 250KW). At the Plaid launch event Elon did hint at faster than 250KW charging speeds.
An interesting exercise might be to see if it's the car or the charger throttling. Charge to 50-70% then swap to a "cold" charger? Imagine if its the "charging plug overheat" that Kyle specialises in? (wet towel)
I kept feeling the connector during the session - it was fine. There was a nice cool breeze and no direct sunlight. Also, I didn't mention this but I did the test twice - once overnight when it was dark and much cooler and the results were exactly the same. You don't get the connector overheating issues with the V3 superchargers - there is no need to use the damp towel like you should with the V2 units. Except maybe in really hot areas when it's already 90+F outside and the connector is in direct sunlight. Kyle also did this same test and our results were just about perfectly in sync.
Here in California, when you charge at a Supercharger, many of them put a message up on your screen saying that since it is a high demand Supercharger station, it is going to limit your state of charge to 80% and it cuts you off there. I wonder if that's what happened to you? If you unplug and then plug back in, it will let you continue but that's not what they really want you to do.
Do you post these charges on charging rates as well as the EVSE final report card chart? This would be better to have a one stop location to pull them as PDFs rather than collecting all this information via screen shots.
Unless you are trying to set some land speed record, I think you will find that your body will thank you for these short stops the car forces you to take every couple of hours, and it makes for a pleasant driving experience. I remember coming back from somewhere in my Model 3, and I was halfway through my snack when the car was ready, and this Plaid easily beats the 3, and the regular S with aero wheels, even more so. You have to imagine an advantage for gas with this thing, cause in real life, it's not there.
13:40 i think this chart shows that v4 superchargers are possible since the chart is flat at the max output of the charger,so the charger needs upgrading edit: the new 4680 batteries might help increase the speed since they will produce less heat when supercharging
I believe Tesla will limit charge sessions to 80% if the location is busy and then you have to "override" to continue. In your case was not busy so not clear.
I had just finished up a 100% to 0% range test. Once the SOC gets down very low (I believe under 10%), the car won't precondition because it won't "waste" the energy at a very low state of charge. Just as it won't use Sentry Mode if the SOC is under 20%
Always got you down as a bit biased as you keep appearing on Alex's channel. Good stuff. Rent an LFP model Y when they're out and do the same test. 90% will be much more real world for them. When we get 4680s, they'll take the juice at higher rates for a lot longer, so charging from 20-80% (especially on LFP) will approach a gas refill times.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney evidently not against Tesla as I thought (had you pegged as a gas man despite owning a model 3). I don't get how Alex used to own a Tesla and is now in the anything but camp. About you, I've been put straight! For most people they just need educating to charge to 80% in normal use and 100% occasionally when going on a long trip or you've got time to burn. Not many will choose to go much below say 15%...
@@andyonions7864 Yes, and I do repeat that in my charging videos. It's interesting to me that I can come across as a "gas man" to some listeners. I've been driving EVs for over 12 years now and have owned 7 of them.
In my V3 supercharging tests is usually takes me 11-12 minutes to go from 10 to 50%. But you have to remember the Model S Plaids battery pack is about 25% larger.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney it's interesting how Tesla seems to Target one hour for a full charge no matter battery size. Like model 3 and Model S both ending up about an hour to charge. That's what I was getting at above even though they're different battery sizes they're similar times. I hope you don't mind me plugging my charging test but if anybody wants to check out my model 3 charging test after y'all watch Tom's of course! this link skips right to the test and skips all the blabbering I do. ruclips.net/video/Wi94cRkPeJM/видео.html
1:20 to be fair, all “legacy” auto companies let journos get cars. I’m sure you won’t be getting a Rivian or a Lucid vehicle either. Tesla does let motor trend get early access to their vehicles though. They also let the New York Times and Top Gear in the past get vehicles and got burned. But yes in general, all new pure EV play companies are a little more reserved with providing cars.
We'll see. Lucid and Rivian have already indicated to me that they will loan me a car once they have enough of them made. Lets see if they stick to that.
From my CANbus supercharger logs on my Model 3, the charging port cable kWh is the full pull from the charger (higher) and the displayed value does appear to be the kWh the battery pack takes. All the losses are removed from the UI value. EA chargers show the station kWh and you can see the car display already has the losses removed on the Teslas.
for regular EV owners please do not discharge below 10% and do not charge above 90% if your car has regular lithioum ion battery,it will degrade the battery much faster then usual.
Please don't scare people unnecessarily. I've been driving EVs for 11 years now (over 300,000 miles) and have frequently done deep discharges and recharged to 100%. You're correct it's not great to do that every day but it will not harm the battery at all if you do it on occasion. What's important is to not leave the battery sitting for a long time at a very high or low SOC.
It doesn't necessarily hurt the battery to go to the extremes as long as you don't leave it there for long. If you charge to 100% immediately start using it. If you discharge deep into the pack don't park it for 3 weeks at 1% recharge immediately.
Tom Let's think logically. If it's a hot battery causing the slowdown, and the car has a heatpump, would simply setting cabin heat to max and the blower to full power cool the battery? (Not ideal in a hot climate, but it would show where the limitation lies?) Might delay that "50-70%" decline?
Yes, I have and it's the same as you see in the video (perhaps a kW or two different and less than a minute difference going 20% to 80%) If you want to see the 20% to 80% charging time and curve, it's right there in the video. It's not any different if you plugged in at 20%.
15 minutes in u got 50% battery?!
Holy cow!!
That's insane🤤
*Note: I'd like to point out that I make a mistake at @12:00 in the video when I talk about the charging losses at the end. Tesla doesn't include charging losses in the kWh added on the display screen. The charging session showed 97 kWh total was added to the pack, and I said that not all of that ended up in the pack because of charging losses. That's wrong, all 97 kWh did end up in the pack, we don't know how many kWh were lost to charging inefficiencies and thermal management. At @2:09 I mention how hard the thermal management system was working to keep the battery and components cool during charging and that takes a lot of energy to do so. I had thought that Tesla included the charging losses, but since they don't we don't know exactly how many kWh the Supercharger delivered to the car.
The Model S has a 100 kWh pack and we put 97 kWh in, so there were about 3 kWh left in when the car reached 0% stated because Tesla does have a low-end buffer that allows people to drive for a while after the SOC reaches 0. In Europe where Teslas use the CCS plug, the charging stations display the total delivered kWh, so owners can compare the total delivered to the total that ended up in the pack. If you're interested in learning more about charging losses in Tesla vehicles check out Bjorn's video: ruclips.net/video/iLmIIe9N_aI/видео.html
I really like your charging tests. Several RUclipsrs present the charging curve like a commentator of a horse race. Your deep dive analysis and explanations along the way are awesome. The charging graphs are invaluable.
This is a great service to the EV community.
Tesla and other OEMs constantly tweak their charging curves. How frequently will you recheck to see if your graphs are still representative or not?
I will redo a test when the OEM announces an update. I'm waiting for Ford to push out its Mach-E charging curve update (it's due any day) so I can test that one over again.
So many variables, the main ones being Software (as mentioned) air temperature, battery temperature, pack age......
Tom, you’re a national resource! 👍
Is this where we ask "where did they did him up"?
(Sorry 😉)
@@rogerstarkey5390 "where did they "did" him up"????? "where did they dig you up. my friend"? lol
(Sorry 😉)
Agree!
Thx for the video. That's very interesting topic and very little was said about it so far.
Always well done, Tom. Glad Tesla improved the curve quite a bit.
Good review, interesting and well done
Thanks, Tom!
Love your videos. Great job. 👍🏽 I love that you put it in to perspective but explaining to noobs the reality of percentages on the road. Perfectly explained. Typically I need 80-85 percent on long trips. I pull in around 10 and leave around 90. That's the reality on the road. Thanks!!
Thorough explanation and documentation of the charging curve and 70MPH Highway Range Test (HRT) on your previous video. 💯 I thought we were going to drive it at 70 mph until you couldn’t sustain 70 mph but I don’t think that would’ve changed it that much. Tesla would’ve wanted you to drive it until it stopped and couldn’t move to show the real capacity but they don’t recommend that for users so it is what it is. 👍🏼
The problem is I need to time the test to when I arrive at a charging station. If I had gone to the next exit and turned around, it would have added about 12 miles. I don't know if it would have made it - maybe, but honestly, I don't think too many owners are comfortable driving far after the SOC reaches zero, so I think stopping a few miles past zero SOC is fair.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Totally agree on consumer usage. A few miles past zero with not a lot of Roadies on service trucks is probably more than anyone other than Kyle would go. 😁
From my pov it is quite confusing from Tesla side to expect from a driver to go below 0% 0miles. From that point you have no clue when the car will shut down due to low voltage, it could happen after 12 miles or after a couple of feet.
All car manufacturers have a buffer on the lower end of the battery so people end with an empty battery in less of a mile to the charging station, but only if you asume that 0% is empty.
I’m sorry but all this EPA range can be accomplished if you run the car till it shuts down is just PR-nonsense, taking into account that Elon thinks PR is only there to misinform the public. 🤦♂️
Very good reporting.
As always, excellent review Tom !
You the man Tom! Gotta say although my little ‘17 i3 REx doesn’t charge as fast, it still has a great charge curve.
Yes, it does, It pulls close to its 50 kW max rate all the way up to like 80% - a straight line. But that's not too hard to do if you're only pulling 48 kW! ;)
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney oh yeah 50 kW ain’t nothing compared to 250 kW :)
Yes, for Joe Consumer, having a flat charge curve, even if lower is easier to understand and plan. With my 2012 Leaf, I’d be overjoyed with the i3 flat 50 kw charge curve. I think eTron with flat 150 kw charge curve is best out there. Too bad the car isn’t efficient.
Very solid video Tom good work 👍
Another great video Tom!
Great video can't wait the same test with a lucid air
Tom is an EV gangsta
Awesome video. I’ve driven down to zero on more than a few times in my model x. Lol. My wife hates it. She gets major range anxiety.
Good information 👍
Yes, the only times (bad weather aside) that people need to charge beyond around 60% are where destination charging is not available at a destination and this is the last fast charger before the destination, such as in parts of Montana or elsewhere in the the rural west and southwest.
I totally agree for most of my road trips I am normally charging from 10% to 60% with occasional 70% if I get distracted at one of the shops near supercharger. I like to stop every 2-2.5 hours and this was even before I got EV.
I hope you see this but you put the 25% card in front of the KW reading. I wanted to see when the ramp down started. :(.
Interesting video and some good information. If I may add a bit of constructive criticism, perhaps a bit more editing of your videos might make them a bit more interesting. You have a tendency (not unlike most of RUclips posters) to ramble on with superfluous chatter. Keep your commentary concise and on point. Just a suggestion. Thanks again for your informative videos. Cheers!
I'm always open to suggestions. :)
Thanks for this. This is a big improvement from the Model S P100D I took on a road trip a couple of years back. That one added 6 hours to my 14 hour (by ICE [or hybrid]) drive using ABetterRoutePlanner. ABRP has become better also, as has the Tesla in-car app, but only marginally. The new charge curve would only take about one hour off my total charging. For me, that still isn't good enough. I can do 14 hours, maybe 16 hours in the drive and still be profitable. 18-19 hours is just not workable yet. Guess I have to wait for the Cyber Truck...
Or for technology to improve so that BEVs are as good as ICE for long-haul driving (that isn't vacation). It's so frustrating, because I really want to move to BEVs for the planet, but I have to be able to make money. I get why BEV makers are only focusing on city dwellers, but there are a lot of us that need to live in the rural areas for you to be able to eat and clothe yourselves, and we are running on really thin margins. Tesla is, by far, the best right now, I just hope they keep improving. And take the improvements in to the Y & 3; the prices of the S Plaid are a little steep for me.
Look forward to seeing charging curve graph overlays for BEVs that have competitive changeling curves in the future... Like Lucid and Hyundai E-GMP based models for example....
Since this is the only channel the fully feeds the geek in me lol...
Geeks unite!
Thanks Tom for this fabulous report. Anticipating delivery of a S-LR in 2-3 weeks, I’m very curious about charge rate. Do you think LR rate is same as Plaid? As an EE data geek, miles of range seems more important than state of charge. Can we use your graph and simply convert state of charge to miles assuming 100% = 380 miles? Thanks for 100 & 200 mile times.
I think half an hour stop every 300 miles or so seems an entirely reasonable length/frequency of breaks.
It’s half an hour for 5-80% which is 75% of the 300 miles.
So it’s 1hour pause every 300 miles(which is not the best for the battery) or 30min pause every 225 miles, which still is pretty reasonable.
tesla model s chargers real fast
Would have loved to see the battery temperature throughout the test. Thanks for the video 👍
Great review!
Couple of questions:
1. Can you share a CSV or excel file with the numbers?
2. Can you do a miles/minute charge in your reviews? (In reality, nobody should care about kw or % per minute - what’s important is how many miles can you get per minute of charging - this will also ensure the efficiency of the car is taken into consideration - eg 100kw charged in a HummerEV would offer very different experience than 100kw charged in a Model 3… same applies for MachE vs Model Y, Lucid Air vs Model S, etc)
You should also record voltage and current separately for the charging curve. This would give an insight into voltages (including voltage range from min to max of the BMS) and currents that the superchargers V3 deliver. And it would allow comparisons between the 110s battery packs in this Plaid and the 96s battery packs in the Model 3 and older S/X.
Tom, awesome content... 👍 Just one question who say the plaid has a 100kWh battery pack? Did Tesla confirm that?
Only reason I ask is on my model 3 the kWh added to the pack is what is shown on the screen as Tesla captures that data at the BMS level not the input level, their is also a special adapter and ODB2 type software you can setup to see the different SoC the battery is at, what you see on the screen is what’s added not what is coming in thus the loss would be very little from the BMS to the pack..
Unlike CCS that Measures at the charger level and displays at the charger, Tesla SC is fully integrated no display at the charger and no Measurement from the charger .. all the measurement is local to the onboard systems in the car so it’s much more accurate than CCS cars .. iMO that battery pack is bigger than what people thinks, but does not matter much 100kWh 300 miles under perfect conditions real world is the number to truly keep an eye on, can’t wait to see what Lucid can do.
It actually has a 99 kWh pack. That was confirmed in a teardown. We have the video up on InsideEVs.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Hi Tom sorry I missed that video will look for it, did they count all the cells and calculate the actual Capacity of one of the cells? Or just add up the modules? anyways as I said it truly does not matter as much as knowing going 300 miles @70mph in perfect conditions is doable.. BTW in your range test video the screen did indicate 91kWh used for that 300 miles no? Do you know what the usable capacity is set to? Or does Tesla actually gives us access to 100% of the pack?
Isn’t it better to balance the cells anyway? The extra time seems minimal. Does the super charging affect battery life? Your thoughts.
Yeah, about once every 2-3 months, but it's not necessary all the time.
Tom, if possible, it will be cool to do a charging session on EA with a battery pre-conditioned.
Probably possible when SC is beside EA. This way we can see charging efficiency.
Tom, does the Model S Plaid (and other EV) go thru an after charging BMS balancing routine "after" each charging session? I thought it took place for EVs while they charge? And how much energy is used on average to balance the pack?
Just curious, since you alluded to this issues in the post. If you know the info offhand. Thx again for the post.
It might be that because the car is so new, it has never really bin charged till 100%. But as Tom said, nobody does that a SuC!
Good explanation on those tests.
Maybe rename these test "charge curve test" 😉
thanks for doing these Tom. Since we use primarily Level 2 chargers on our cross US trips, do you think we can extrapolate the charging curve for those chargers? ie - would get 150 kw until your level 3 charge curve drops below 150?
Yes, exactly. But I think you mean V2 superchargers not Level 2 charging stations, right?
Thanks!!!
I wonder how this will translate to a model y longrange with the 4680 batteries?
Tom your reporting again is second to none. I watch all your videos and I was wondering if I could pick your brain about an issue I need to solve and I believe many more are going to be running into this problem as more and more people are going to be changing over to EV’s. I am close to retirement and we had bought a new build condo two years ago which is about to be completed this January. When we purchased the condo we paid a small surcharge to have power accessible at our parking spot. I also recently put an order in for a Model Y. My dilemma is, what is the best charger to install in the underground parking spot? Do I use the Tesla charger and will I be able to communicate with the car from eight floors above in a concrete building or is the Tesla charger even capable of this or is there a better solution to this problem. I imagine as more and more people move into higher density living arrangements this is going to be a more prevalent problem for more and more people.
Hey Ray. You probably don't need a smart-charger since you most likely won't have WiFi connectivity in the underground garage. As for communicating with the car through the Tesla app, often buildings install cell phone repeaters in underground parking lots. If you have that, you should be able to communicate with the car. Do you get a cell phone signal in the garage? I'd probably recommend getting the Tesla wall connector since it's reasonably priced, has the right connector so you don't need an adapter, and delivers 48-amps. How much power is available at your parking spot?
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney we would be installing 240V with a 50AMP breaker.
Hi Tom. I am from India & Tesla is currently testing model 3 & Y at various locations in our country, charging at 50-60KW DC fast charging stations. Can you make a video of charging a Tesla at a 50KW DC fast-charger and plot the charging curve?
Thank you for the detailed numbers. However, I don't think the added kWh shown on the display is what the charger delivered, but it is what was added into the battery. I am not exactly sure how this is measured, maybe it is calculated from the BMS using the SoC, maybe it counts the kWh send into the battery.
Why I think this is not what the charger delivers ist just because it may be the same like for the Model 3. With my Model 3 I recognized once that it counts added kWh in this display just because of heated battery when starting the charging session at a low temperature. In such a case, my car shows more kWh added than the charger devilered, measured at third-party chargers with accurate information. The bill from Tesla shown in the display and later in the account has always additional energy added compared to the added kWh shown in the charging screen. So I am pretty sure you added 97kWh into the battery, which should then be like 90kWh of usable energy while driving (in trip meter) due to charging and discharging losses (my Model 3 shows 8% through ScanMyTesla). It may be a little bit more depending on how the 97kWh was actually measured, e.g. if it would be SoC counted, which I assume, it may only be about 4% losses and 93kWh available for driving measured with trip meter.
@Tom M. - have you done a similar test on the Non-Plaid version of the refreshed Model S? I'm assuming it is slightly slower. I'm really awaiting this test with a Model S with a 4680 cell. At that point, I expect a reduction in charging times of at least 2x, and that is when I trade in my 2015 Model S. I expect the wait to be quite long for any car using the 4680 cells, for this reason alone.
I did - it was just about exactly the same. Less than a minute different
The Model S and S have been rated for 250kW for over a year or so now. Not just the refreshed models.
Yes, but these newer models no longer get the free unlimited charging that Tesla was offering (it was like a peace offering for not supporting the 250KW). At the Plaid launch event Elon did hint at faster than 250KW charging speeds.
What was the $$ cost of the charge? I have a 2016 model S with free super charging so curious how much super charging costs?
If the car is throttling, that's likely internal resistance in the pack.
When it gets the 4680, that should be a gamechanger.
Did you precondition the battery before getting to the supercharger?
An interesting exercise might be to see if it's the car or the charger throttling.
Charge to 50-70% then swap to a "cold" charger?
Imagine if its the "charging plug overheat" that Kyle specialises in? (wet towel)
I kept feeling the connector during the session - it was fine. There was a nice cool breeze and no direct sunlight. Also, I didn't mention this but I did the test twice - once overnight when it was dark and much cooler and the results were exactly the same. You don't get the connector overheating issues with the V3 superchargers - there is no need to use the damp towel like you should with the V2 units. Except maybe in really hot areas when it's already 90+F outside and the connector is in direct sunlight. Kyle also did this same test and our results were just about perfectly in sync.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney
Good info!
The V3 cables are actually liquid cooled.
Here in California, when you charge at a Supercharger, many of them put a message up on your screen saying that since it is a high demand Supercharger station, it is going to limit your state of charge to 80% and it cuts you off there. I wonder if that's what happened to you? If you unplug and then plug back in, it will let you continue but that's not what they really want you to do.
It shouldn't have. There are 14 stations at this location and there was only 1 other char charging.
Its happened to me as well where my 2018 Model X stopped charging all by itself at 80%. Frustrating. My new Plaid Model X hasn't done that yet though.
Do you post these charges on charging rates as well as the EVSE final report card chart? This would be better to have a one stop location to pull them as PDFs rather than collecting all this information via screen shots.
Unless you are trying to set some land speed record, I think you will find that your body will thank you for these short stops the car forces you to take every couple of hours, and it makes for a pleasant driving experience. I remember coming back from somewhere in my Model 3, and I was halfway through my snack when the car was ready, and this Plaid easily beats the 3, and the regular S with aero wheels, even more so. You have to imagine an advantage for gas with this thing, cause in real life, it's not there.
13:40 i think this chart shows that v4 superchargers are possible since the chart is flat at the max output of the charger,so the charger needs upgrading
edit: the new 4680 batteries might help increase the speed since they will produce less heat when supercharging
How much was it you paid for that 100% full charge??
I didn't pay anything because of free supercharging miles, but it would have cost $28.00
I believe Tesla will limit charge sessions to 80% if the location is busy and then you have to "override" to continue. In your case was not busy so not clear.
16 stations and only 1 other car there.
Was the battery preconditioned before you started to charge?
I had just finished up a 100% to 0% range test. Once the SOC gets down very low (I believe under 10%), the car won't precondition because it won't "waste" the energy at a very low state of charge. Just as it won't use Sentry Mode if the SOC is under 20%
Always got you down as a bit biased as you keep appearing on Alex's channel. Good stuff. Rent an LFP model Y when they're out and do the same test. 90% will be much more real world for them. When we get 4680s, they'll take the juice at higher rates for a lot longer, so charging from 20-80% (especially on LFP) will approach a gas refill times.
I'd be curious to hear biased about what - if you don't mind. :)
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney evidently not against Tesla as I thought (had you pegged as a gas man despite owning a model 3). I don't get how Alex used to own a Tesla and is now in the anything but camp. About you, I've been put straight! For most people they just need educating to charge to 80% in normal use and 100% occasionally when going on a long trip or you've got time to burn. Not many will choose to go much below say 15%...
You fanboys must be one of the most touchy species on the planet 🙄
@@andyonions7864 Yes, and I do repeat that in my charging videos.
It's interesting to me that I can come across as a "gas man" to some listeners. I've been driving EVs for over 12 years now and have owned 7 of them.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney I suspect it may be your old car tech heritage.
So 97kWh for 400 miles with normal driving and 300 miles while driving 70mph with the bad tires? Nice! Much better then 500 miles at 138kWh.
My Model 3 does 10-50% in 10 minutes
In my V3 supercharging tests is usually takes me 11-12 minutes to go from 10 to 50%. But you have to remember the Model S Plaids battery pack is about 25% larger.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney it's interesting how Tesla seems to Target one hour for a full charge no matter battery size. Like model 3 and Model S both ending up about an hour to charge. That's what I was getting at above even though they're different battery sizes they're similar times. I hope you don't mind me plugging my charging test but if anybody wants to check out my model 3 charging test after y'all watch Tom's of course! this link skips right to the test and skips all the blabbering I do. ruclips.net/video/Wi94cRkPeJM/видео.html
@@Crazypostman yes, they definitely do
My ICE does 0 to 100 in about 4 mins giving me a range of around 500 miles.
@@davidlewis4399 yeah but it's not as fun to drive as my Tesla 😁
The takeaway: 5-33% is fastest. New cannonball runs will start getting posted I’m sure.
1:20 to be fair, all “legacy” auto companies let journos get cars. I’m sure you won’t be getting a Rivian or a Lucid vehicle either. Tesla does let motor trend get early access to their vehicles though. They also let the New York Times and Top Gear in the past get vehicles and got burned. But yes in general, all new pure EV play companies are a little more reserved with providing cars.
We'll see. Lucid and Rivian have already indicated to me that they will loan me a car once they have enough of them made. Lets see if they stick to that.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney I hope you do get those loaners because I think you do very fair and excellent reviews.
@@ultrastoat3298 Thank you. I always try to be fair and balanced.
Tesla needs to get their range up to 400 miles and cut their changing time in half.
If you did realistic tests, the range would be a lot lower and the charging time shorter. Your methods seem best for comparison sake.
Any word yet about non-tesla EVS when they can use superchargers? So far crickets.
From my CANbus supercharger logs on my Model 3, the charging port cable kWh is the full pull from the charger (higher) and the displayed value does appear to be the kWh the battery pack takes. All the losses are removed from the UI value. EA chargers show the station kWh and you can see the car display already has the losses removed on the Teslas.
The screen is on and probably the airco as well, so it uses energy while you are charging. That is the reason why it keeps charging at 100%.
The air conditioning wasn't on. The screen wouldn't have any effect on when the vehicle shuts off.
for regular EV owners please do not discharge below 10% and do not charge above 90% if your car has regular lithioum ion battery,it will degrade the battery much faster then usual.
Please don't scare people unnecessarily. I've been driving EVs for 11 years now (over 300,000 miles) and have frequently done deep discharges and recharged to 100%.
You're correct it's not great to do that every day but it will not harm the battery at all if you do it on occasion. What's important is to not leave the battery sitting for a long time at a very high or low SOC.
It doesn't necessarily hurt the battery to go to the extremes as long as you don't leave it there for long. If you charge to 100% immediately start using it. If you discharge deep into the pack don't park it for 3 weeks at 1% recharge immediately.
LFP says hold my beer !!
Tom
Let's think logically.
If it's a hot battery causing the slowdown, and the car has a heatpump, would simply setting cabin heat to max and the blower to full power cool the battery? (Not ideal in a hot climate, but it would show where the limitation lies?)
Might delay that "50-70%" decline?
Кто от варпача?)
В России умножайте время в 5 раз
Teslas range is overestimated
Sorry, not too interesting in this 'theoretical' test. Have you done a 20% to 80% test with Plaid at Supercharger?
Yes, I have and it's the same as you see in the video (perhaps a kW or two different and less than a minute difference going 20% to 80%) If you want to see the 20% to 80% charging time and curve, it's right there in the video. It's not any different if you plugged in at 20%.