I think what really sets your reviews apart from everyone else is how frank/honest you guys are. Although this video is not recent, its still so relevant and very helpful.
I went in last yr to buy the Titleist AP2’s and walked out with the Callaway Apex pro’s. i always questioned myself if I did the correct thing. After seeing your results I can finally sleep easy 😴. Love my apex pros. Dropped from 9-10 hdcp down to a 6.3 and will soon be in the 5’s is my hope. Cheers. Loved the video.
I’ve got a set of BH ptx pro I’m glad to see you give them a mention really good looking classy looking club and a great value less than $800 a set and they come in chrome and black.
I also believe and you probably know this but the 7-4 iron are hollow with permitter weighting with the 8-10 having titanium inserts so had you compared scoring irons I think they would have faired better in terms of front to back dispersion.
I just picked up the Cobra CB/MB set 3 weeks ago and I'm loving them. Played the Fly Z+ irons before this and I havent seen any change in carry, I do get more spin, and the swing weight is about half. Love em.
Hollow irons have been around since the 80's. I used to play a set of Titleist B33's. They were long but it was hard to work the ball. I sold them and bought a set of Hogan Apex Redlines. I still play the Hogans.
I was custom fitted for Callaway Apex 19’ Pro Forged earlier this year at Club Champion NJ (USA) and absolutely love them, a great combo of feel & forgiveness as clearly demonstrated by these results. Playing off a 2.8 handicap these are a great choice. Could play blades but I’m not a pro and can use the extra forgiveness just like pro’s do... Handicap is low, mostly due to my short game/putting..
Stephen DiBari Good choice Stephen, we've been big fans of anything Apex for a few years. Latest Pro model with cup face down to 7-iron are a great shout.
simondaddow thanks ! Very happy with these irons ! Was getting 10 yards avg. more carry w. 6 iron compared to my previous X-forged irons ! The fitter was blown away too
I play the 919 Tour irons, and they just feel like something else entirely. I've improved so much with these irons and even with their 34 degree loft, I average 175y here in Melbourne at sea level. I'm a 43 year old, not quite as limber as I once was but hitting it better than I ever have. Wonderful set of clubs. I'm surprised how little mention they get, with the Forged irons getting so much press. Not sure how that works given that the Forged irons are game improvement irons as compared to the players irons the Tours are. The top line and offset of the Forged just take them off the table for me entirely.
I read this article in detail in the magazine. It was very interesting and quite a surprise. Whilst the data can't lie, I wonder if it is now worth grouping irons in the Player category by their loft rather that their type. I play Wilson V6 (and am very happy), but its no wonder they perform less well in distance than the top in group because of their incredibly weak lofts. In my V6s, to have a loft of 30 degrees you're looking at a 5-iron, not a 7-iron as tested. Compare the V6 data with the Titleist CB data, and its roughly the same (apart from drop off). PS not sour grapes at finishing "last" in group LOL!
It's all swings and roundabouts really. The V6 didn't finish 'last' in our eyes, they're a lovely set of irons with lofts set up for their intended audience. We posted results on the board from longest to shortest, to be as easy to understand as possible. We're not really about identifying winners and losers but much more about showing how similar products compare. It's highly unlikely golfers looking at buying a set of V6 would be concerned with distance. Be safe in the knowledge, you own a lovely set of irons you're happy with.
@@todaysgolfer Totally get it - your data set and analysis is definitely the most comprehensive from anybody out there. Definitely well worth doing and gives us all something to compare. Thanks for doing it ;)
I've been playing the c300 forged for the last 12 months and they are fantastic. They have traditional lofts but still go plenty far enough and feel great. I play off 9 and have been through lots of irons, i had the P790s but didn't get on with them. Don't think i will be changing anytime soon.
Another great review by TG, albeit not quite as objective as your recent premium ball test. There are so many choices of irons it's quite frankly, mind boggling. I currently play Ping G irons and play off 6. I have decided to treat myself to a nice set of forged irons and as a senior golfer I will be looking at graphite shafts. Based on my research and your testing I have narrowed my choices down to three makes - JPX 919 Forged, Callaway Apex 19 and Srixon Z585. All are forged but could be argued to be 'game improvement' irons. I believe Mizuno and Srixon do not up-charge for their graphite shafts, so they are favourites.
Nice choices Ray and thanks for the feedback. If you're interested, we've ranked all the irons we've tested this year for forgiveness on the link below. Can be helpful to know which models are in the same categories.But it looks like you're on the ball anyway. bit.ly/2Y85kqN
There's not masses of forged options within the game improvement arena Gordon. But the Srixon ZX4 MKII, Callaway Apex DCB, PXG 0311 GEN6 P or XP and new Titleist T350 would be making our shortlist.
Thanks Michael it was a lot of effort but well worth it. The Srixon Z585's are in there, they're just tucked away in the Game Improver category (around 22 mins in). Hope that helps. If it's easier you can view all the data on our website here bit.ly/2PbGpgT
Good test of the equipment that was selected for review... One factor that ought to be mentioned is that a golfer with a higher handicap and slower swing speed may need a different shaft in the irons to obtain optimal results.
Excellent video again! I hit the Srixon Z545 and every two years srixon comes out with a new game improvement iron but as much as I like the sole I don't see me upgrading to the 565 or the 585s until I see better results. and you proved it...585s are good but not as good as the 785s
Great video..really appreciate all the information and dedication to detail...Makes it much easier to choose what will work in ones game.....Thank You....
We didn't have the Z-Forged at the time Sam. New 2020 video's coming up soon will include the Z-Forged however. Thanks for the lovely feedback, very much appreciated.
Great video had my wilson staff c300 forged a season now and they will be in the bag for years to come. Chose on price and value and i haven't played a better iron in my years of golfing.
Without scrutinizing the data properly it's hard to see for sure but it seemed to me that there was a correlation between loft and drop offs. Clubs with more loft seemed to have smaller drop offs. I would like to see a video where you compiled a data set like this for one full set of players irons and one set of GI irons side by side. It would be interesting to see how a 30° 7 compared to a 30°6 and how they compare in the longer and shorter irons rather than just the standard 7.
Thanks for the feedback Robert. The test you suggest is on our radar, it's not quite as easy as it sounds as shaft length differs, which affects speed, dispersion and distance too.
@@todaysgolfer it's a no win situation for you guys. If you don't keep everything the same people moan it's not a fair test but at the same time comparing a players iron alongside a gi iron I would t expect everything to be the same.
Great informative info presented in easy to understand data for an average golfer like myself, without getting too technical. For the hollow-back and game improvement categories what handicap range to do you class these to be in your opinion? I am a 18 handicapper so would help knowing what you would say is “in theory” my bracket for now and also to improve within without needing more in 12 months time. I love the look like most players of the P790’s but would appreciate your comments as to the handicap range in these two categories so can look at those when out of lockdown. Thanks 🙏
Thanks for the question Jonathan, it's a really good one and exactly why we use handicap guides from time to time (even though some people don't agree they're a good idea). We're just pulling together our 'Which Iron Suits me 2020' feature at the moment. You can see last years versions here, if that helps? TaylorMade: bit.ly/2XK9Z2b Ping: bit.ly/2K2ao7N Callaway: bit.ly/34xVAHD Mizuno: bit.ly/3a9EQHI Wilson: bit.ly/3b5fLPG PXG: bit.ly/3ejVibJ Cobra: bit.ly/2Vuc3bJ
This is really great stuff gents. Your presentation is fantastically done, and easy to digest. You may have already addressed this, but did you feel like all of the clubs were similarly set up? Shafts, weighting, etc?
Thank you so much for taking the time to say so Ryan, it's very much appreciated. We use standard stock set ups, as it's what's available to consumers straight off the rack, unfortunately that's still how the majority of golfers buy.
Hi, great review but could you clarify which shafts and balls were used? Also could you please post a link to the data. Can’t find it on your website, thank you.
Do the hollow body irons change over time? If the face is flexing each hit won't it eventually loose it's spring? Same for all thin faced clubs. For someone who keeps clubs for years will the face or the foam filling loose it's effects? Clubs are often left in sub zero garages and then subjected to high heat in cars. How if any does this affect the club. Maybe take a thin faced club and hit it a thousand times and test it. I have some real reservations of foam or thin faces staying true over time. Thanks.
Honma really does make a phenomenal iron. I'm still playing with my lb 727 cavity tour's and to this day I have yet to find an iron that matches it in precision. You aim at your target and it finds it within 3 feet! I like other irons also when talking about distance but they pale in comparison when it comes to shot placement.
I think this is a very informative video but I still can't get behind the handicap ranges you guys say. if I high handicap that strikes the iron really well but sucks at putting they can play blades right? but i guess that is up to the consumer to think about when they test them out.
Thanks for the comment Ascend, we've said several times before that our handicap guides are just that - guides (they're not hard and fast rules). Appreciate some golfers find them useful, while others don't. Club designers and engineers target specific golfers with their irons, and brands know what sort of handicap ranges each model typically sells too. We're just trying to highlight who each model might work for/ is designed for.
REgarding Players Irons: I was a custom fit last Feb (2019) for Callaway Apex Pro Smoked Forged 19 irons. (5-PW). Looking back at my Trackman #’s with my 7 iron: Swing Speed: 80.0 mph; Ball Speed 108.5 mph; Launch Angle 18.0; BackSpin 4,465 rpm; Carry 155.3 yards ; Total 167.8 yards; Height 75 Ft. attack angle -5.0 I play off a USGA 2.4 handicap, mostly because of a strong short game, especially putting: My Arccos putting handicap is +5.4. I see Neils ball speed is 121 mph far greater than my 108.5, this is has to be the reason why I’m only getting 4,465 rpm of backspin!! ANother reason why I recently sold my APex Pro Smoked forged 19 irons. ! Unfortunately it was a big price to pay, sold them for only 1/3 of what i paid Not happy with the fitter at Club Champion NJ, but its too late now. Ill be going for a custom fit in a few months after my shoulder rehab is completed ... Ping i210 irons will be my choice ... I haven’t hit them yet but have watched nearly every RUclips review available... Love the looks and these are more traditional lofted which should help me with my swing speed
Lots of information you lads have given and a lot of work which I appreciate your time and efforts in this interesting video👍👏 Personally I won a set of Mizuno mps of my choice through James Robinson golf and i chose the mp20s HMB through the bag and I’ve kept the lofts as standard 32 degrees is fine for myself carry around 158-163 with the correct height and spin required. I could go 2 degrees stronger but I honestly feel I don’t need too as these clubs are just beautiful and the feel is second too none in my opinion.
Would love to see the difference in this test with someone in the 12 handi range. Then again with maybe an 18. Would be fun to see the results difference
We've talked about this so many times. Finding 12 and 18 handicappers that are consistent enough to show meaningful comparisons is tough from experience. If you're not careful you end up analysing the performance of the golfer rather than the club, which can be very misleading.
@@todaysgolfer thank you for the reply. I guess I miss understood the data. When reviewing it, I thought the blades were more "forgiving" for Neil based on the yards drop off showing a lower percentage.
John Surlet We've never tried it John, but don't see why adding loft would lose control. Worth trying on one iron perhaps before attempting the whole set?
Mac Gregor came out with the first hollow forged irons many moons ago. I had a set (V foil M 565 ) good irons still , lofts may be a little weak by modern standards.
ThinkoutsidetheTbox just bought a set of the m565 in great nick, grew up with macgregor have a soft spot for them looking forward to going backwards in my irons😂 i’m betting they play just as good as whats around nowadays.
Great info and good detail. I'm on the hunt for new irons, handicap is 10 and don't need distance I need more consistent control in flight, distance etc. Going for my first custom fit irons soon, any recommendations?? The guy I'm going to adviced to at least have an idea of what ones I fancy to try them and others out but new to packing irons. Currently play with Internet bought calloway xhot irons and woods. Cheers 🍻
Would you describe yourself as a decent ball striker with your irons? Or would some extra forgiveness be beneficial? It sounds like you might well be on the fence choosing between traditional player and game improver models, as if you're not chasing distance then fast face tech doesn't really need to come into the equation.
Thanks for your reply 😁 I'd say my ball striking is OK, I tend to be always pin high but when miss it's left and right which I think is down to my swing plane and follow through (getting a lesson to confirm this before fitting) I might be wrong tho haha! Had a lesson last year and he advised it's my follow through that's causing the inconsistency. I thought if I get fitted clubs and some lessons it might sort it all out 🤔 my distance is always been on the long side so thinking even if dropping yardage a bit to gain more control would be a good thing. My woods go far but seem to stop dead and never roll out so I'll need to address that as well as it seems to be too much backspin. Do you think i should test out say a couple forgiving irons and some player ones and see if there is much change? Cheers 🍻
Hi Martin, Callaway X-Forged irons are discontinued in the UK, hence why they're not in the video. Link below to the previous years video which includes the X-Forged if you're interested. ruclips.net/video/Ke7millQu40/видео.html Hope that helps.
I play blades with a 12 hcp because I love the look and cant wait to hit them , but that's not one of your categories but it's the most important to me . By the way I've had my best rounds with blades nothing better for stopping on baked summer greens . By the way I've played with the most forgiving cavities and I still play to 12 ha ha . You should as a recreational golfer play what you love it's why you want to go out and play
Thanks for the input Alan, completely understand your point. We're not really trying to establish a 'winner' as such with our tests, but show people how the leading models compare, so they can make a more informed buying decision. Enjoy the blades.
Im looking at new irons. I currently use apex cf16 but find them too hot off the face. So i think i may go for blend of a players iron/blade to a hollow
I really hate when people assign a handicap limit on blades. From the time I first picked up a club, I never liked how cavity backs looked. When I hit a blade.... the look, the feel, where the weight of the club sits, I love it. I’ve played blades as an 18 hcp beginner all the way to breaking into single digits last season. Use what you like.
Completely understand where you're coming from and we won't argue with your opinion. In the real world though club designers and engineers have a 'target golfer' in mind when designing new models. And brands are well aware of the typical standard of golfer who buy each.
@@todaysgolfer Agree that they do target certain golfers, players distance clubs are a fine example. Although, that particular genre has always made me giggle a little bit. If you can strike the ball well, you probably have a good swing. If you have a good swing, it's not hard to have decent clubhead speed. If you have decent clubhead speed, you'll be hitting that players distance 7 iron 200 yards or better.
@@AnonyMous-jf4lc See where you're coming from. Simon in the video is a decent example though of a golfer, who used to play off 4, now plays off ten and really struggles to generate speed and distance. He has no problem flighting shots high enough to use strong lofts. Strong lofts have transformed high iron game and meant he can still compete.
Any chance you could include some DTC irons in your comparisons? For example Sub 70 and New Level. I really appreciate you explaining the parameters for how you measure consistency. Thanks.
We feature the Ben Hogan's Dennis, truth is though we are a UK golf magazine and we produce video content to support what we create within our magazine and on our website. With Sub 70 and New Level only being available to purchase in US dollars, very few sets ever make it to the UK.
Thanks for chipping in, there's been plenty over the years, most of which didn't quite catch on. Today though the hollow body category is alive and kicking.
Thanks for the feedback Roy. We're just completing our 2020 testing right now, which the D7 Forged is part off. We should have a video and data comparisons live within a few weeks. Look out for a 'Best of 2020 - Player Iron' video.
Hollow cavity forged irons been around since about 2007. Check the Macgregor Mactec NVG2 game improvement irons which TG reviewed and assigned a low score of 3/5 but most of the users assigned a score of 5/5. This video is an interesting review but I think that it does not give visibility on what is truly available out there and what is affordable. To get more people playing golf and trust me the industry needs more people, you need to feature a broader spectrum of irons.
We tested the VT the previous year Jada (link to the video below) we usually try to avoid including models after more than a year, as we just end up repeating ourselves and it's a product subscribers have seen before. ruclips.net/video/Ke7millQu40/видео.html
I am an average player with an Index ranging from 13.0 to 14.5. and have overcome significant injuries for the past 10 years. I believe from your video, Ben Hogan's PTx Pro 3's with a regular shaft will give me the forgiveness I want and the feel of the forged head. Any comment.
Thanks for the comment, it really depends what you want from a new set of irons. The PTx Pro are lovely but there are faster and longer models out there if that's what you want chase. If you can, we'd be inclined to try the Hogan's against a couple of other models to see how different they are at your swing speed.
Nice round up, thanks for all the hard work. 9 years ago Mizuno released the JPX 800 Pro which I think falls into same "forged game improvement iron" bracket as the JPX919 Forged? I'm considering an update. When I bought the JPX 800 Pro's they were the only forged option I could see in that category. Good point on distance - I can stop my 7 iron confidently on a green and wouldn't consider the Callaway Epic Forged while I still have enough speed to get there.
Definitely Wilson Staff is the most underrated brand in the golf world. Moreover, the money they save from marketing allows them to make their products less expensive
Good stuff, I think you guys do the best reviews on RUclips. I don't necessarily agree all the time but enjoy your content. I'm glad I come from an era where looking at a blade is right and looking at a game improvement iron just doesn't look good. I only carry down to a 5 iron and one does need to be willing to regularly practice to be sharp. If you love the game you probably already put in your time on the practice range anyway. If you're a weekend warrior who just wants to show up, drive a cart around, and have a few beers, yeah maybe blades are not the best choice. For the golf nuts, try blades, they're not as scary as many will have you believe. I recently spent several hours on a launch monitor with several different clubs. I will say the Wilson Staff blades were great looking and "long" for a blade. Was consistently hitting it 5-7 yards further than the others. I would have strongly considered them had Wilson offered them in the shaft I want to play. The Mizuno MBs look great and did feel so nice when struck well. They offer great shaft and grip selections for no additional upcharge as well. For me I narrowed it down to the Titleist 620MB and the T100. Titleist did a great job with the T100 designing a club that from the top standing over the ball, is indistinguishable from the MB. I spent an entire evening going back and forth between the two. I was not crazy about the T100 overall aesthetics but was prepared to go with them if they provided a slight edge in performance. The T100s with 1 degree stronger lofts and a small cavity back were expected to have slightly more ball speed and forgiveness. For me they did not. After probably a hundred shots with each, the numbers were nearly identical to the 620MBs. The T100s launched a little higher and had less spin for me. The 620s felt better than the T100s and I liked the lower launch and higher spin. The satin finish and minimalist retro look of the 620MB are tops of any club out there right now to me. Go spend a few nights on the launch monitor with all the clubs and find the one that you like looking down on the best. Almost every time that will end up being the club you strike the best. If the numbers match up with what you want them to do on the course, there you go.
I just bought a second hand set of Mizuno JPX 850 forged irons and have so far only hit at the range. Based on the tracer tech at the range, I'm getting 15-20 yards more distance when I compared my previous cavity back MX17's, but I do notice that small vibration on off-centre hits. So I'm just wondering which of the forged irons you tested would be most comparable to the 850 forged and if you know what forgiveness rating the 850's would be? Thanks and great video, really informative and clearly a lot of effort went into it!
Thanks for the comment and feedback. Sorry the 850's were a bit before we started doing forgiveness ratings. We'd just be guessing if we offered an opinion. Apologies.
Just looking at some of the irons leaning against the wall behind you , there seem to be different lengths of shaft which is going to improve ball speed and distance . And they will presumably have different shafts , my question is if they all had same length and shaft what would be your results?
All the clubs were at each manufacturers standard length Paul. But you're right you might well find some of the blades have shorter shafts than the game improver models, thats how brands choose to set up their equipment. And remember there are no 'standard' lengths between all brands in the industry. It wouldn't really make much sense to test all the irons with the same shaft model, because it would create some very misleading data. For instance no brand would create a very strong lofted iron (like the Honma T//World 747 P) and team it up with a heavy, low launching shaft like the True Temper Dynamic Gold. Essentially you'd be testing products that would never be designed that way.
great review but its a shame you couldn't test the new cobra forged tec hollow body design in standard and one length as its reasonably priced at £899 for 7 irons.
Currently playing TM MC Forged irons (8yrs). 10.4 hdcp. I recently went shopping for new irons to see what's out there and tried a lot of irons. One that seemed really smooth was the Srixon Z585 with the Modus 3 105 shaft. With 7 iron - avg club speed was 93mph, launch around 19deg, apex 90-100', spin about 5900, avg carry 190 (3deg stronger than MC's). Question is - the 7 iron felt great in simulator, should the rest of the clubs perform as well on the course or am I taking a slight step back in playability if I replace my TM with these? Thanks.
It's not a step back at all so long as it's the Z585 Weldon. Srixon's Z785 is much more a player model where the Z585 has some fast face tech. The 585 is a lovely model too, and a nice step from the MC's. Does that help?
@@todaysgolfer It does - a lot!! Thanks for the response. I just had to admit to myself that I needed a little help since my play frequency has dropped off due to LIFE!! They are some hot clubs with those lofts. I'm going to have to add a wedge to the bag.
We see it as showing a great comparison between the leading models Matt. Some of the typical feedback is helping golfers narrow their selection to a couple/few models before going to try each for themselves.
I noticed at the beginning of the video , are you doing this test with range balls? I hope not. testing irons on feel and spin rate, launch and decent angle with range balls is a waste. If not used range balls , then a great informative video. Great job.
Thanks for the feedback Gerdon. Like a lot of our test sessions, the data was created inside using a premium ball. But because 'outdoor' videos look better on camera, we shoot the video part outdoors using range balls. Hope that explains.
Hi, i hit the Wilson D7 forged iron the other day to replace my Nike Vapor Fly cavity back, and it felt great but i didnt see it up on your list. Do you know much about those?
Hi Alan, the D7 Forged were released after this video was created. We test the D7 Forged in our best Mid Handicap/ Game Improver Iron 2020 test if that helps? You can see it here ruclips.net/video/nPpQpNbDO5o/видео.html
Great job guys, always love your in-depth, stats-based analysis. However in the players iron group, I just can’t agree with the big wrap given to the Honma Vx. • Lowest spin by a long way in that group • Lowest descent angle - there is no way that 7 iron is stopping on a links green in Summer! • big drop off in ball speed/ carry distance (almost as much drop off in distance as the Cobra, which you quite rightly said may belong in the game improvement category. Honestly, I think they probably both do with their 30 degree lofts) On numbers I think the Apex Pro probably takes the Players category, with small drop offs, good distance, spin and descent angle (and no.... I’m not a Callaway player) I actually play the Wilson C300 Forged. I look at those numbers and smile contentedly: • better than average ball speed • from a weaker than average loft • with the highest spin rate in the category • highest ball flight & steepest descent angle • almost average distance in the category (in my hands they carry 175 yards, much longer than my previous irons, and I know in your previous tests have averaged 173 yards) • equal 2nd in the category for drop offs • not much more expensive than the Hogans (which had a carry distance drop-off almost as bad as the Cobras!) • and unlike Hogan you don’t have to buy online, so you can still be custom fit!! And how good are those Wilson Staff blades? They do make great irons.... Cheers! Cam
Cameron Loveless Thanks for the feedback Cam. The clubs are only listed in carry distance because it's probably the simplest way to display the information. It wasn't in any way intended to be a ranking. Completely understand where you're coming from on the Honma, we really do these tests so golfers can see what the stronger loft etc does in terms of ball speed. Like we say with Epic Forged, it feels like a step too far. Hope you continue to enjoy the channel.
I was custom fitted for Callaway Apex Pro Forged earlier this year at Club Champion NJ (USA) and absolutely love them, a great combo of feel & forgiveness as clearly demonstrated by these results. Playing off a 2.8 handicap these are a great choice. Could play blades but I’m not a pro and can use the extra forgiveness just like pro’s do... Handicap is low, mostly due to my short game/putting..
simondaddow I understand what you’re saying, but Neil was absolutely gushing over those Honmas, and apart from ball speed & distance (which are clearly due to the strong loft) I don’t think the stats are that good.
Love your videos, very informative. I currently play a set of hand me downs that are for a better player. They are Taylormade Tour Preferred MC. How would you rate them on a forgiveness aspect? Thanks in advance.
Thanks for the feedback rafa, very much appreciated. We didn't have the forgiveness rating we use today back when the Tour Preferred were about, but from memory we'd probably have them at either a 2 or 2.5 on our forgiveness rating today. Hope that helps.
i been playing with the callaway rogues, enjoy the clubs but for game improvement would you think next year upgrading to the apex 19 (not pro) would be a nice jump to next level? I'm good on my iron game but want that next step up just all nervous if the apex is worth the jump? thanks
Thanks for the question Joe, sure you can appreciate it's difficult to answer questions knowing nothing about your game. You didn't mention your handicap? The Apex 19 (not Pro) is a player's distance iron that we see as sitting on the fence between player and game improving models. They are a lovely model, but could be replaced later this year (if having the latest model is important to you). Might be a good idea to try them right alongside the Rogue on a launch monitor and see how they compare. If you are a reasonable iron player they are a lovely step above the rogue for us.
Not quite sure what you're asking. Probably worth making it clear this was Cobra's cavity back Forged Tec iron not the new 2019/2020 hollow body model.
@@todaysgolfer In the vid, you mentioned that the Ben Hogan's had great performance (19 yd dropoff). But you implied that the Cobras didn't perform well. It was a 1yd dropoff difference. I was asking if price was the determining factor, being that the Ben Hogans had a better price/performance ratio (per your test). Side note (since you mentioned it): It would have been more clear if you mentioned that the Cobras tested in the players category were not the 2020 hollow body version. I for one recently purchased the 2020 model and assumed you meant them in your video.
I’m in the market for irons right now. I hit the PXG P and T models today, as well as the Mizuno HMB. The Ps were the most forgiving, and provided the best distance. But, I”m concerned about the front to back variability in distances. Also, will the width of the sole significantly affect my ability to improve my game? I’m an 11.8 index right now and trending downward. I was a 22 4 years ago. All of the models felt great. Is there a notable difference in workability (draw/fade) in these models? On a related note, I did hit some blades (MP20), which felt great. But the price I paid with inconsistency might be more than I should consider in a real round. Thoughts? Thank you!
Chris Yalanis Really good question Chris, congrats on getting your handicap trending down. For us, having seen all the evidence we have, we'd be very wary of blades, unless for whatever reason you feel they're the only style of iron for you. We've seen zero evidence to say the PXG P and T would give bigger variability in carry distance drop off's, in fact because of the tech inside they're probably one of the most consistent across the face for ball speeds. From our experience PXG are keen to fit on attack angle, so if a wide sole gets in the way of your ball striking you'll know now not later. For the head size PXG are forgiving, thanks to the tungsten weights, we have heard a couple of times how they're the straightest iron several golfers have hit, which might play a role in your decision if you're targeting workability over forgiveness. It sounds like you've got a couple of lovely irons on your shortlist, it's difficult to make the wrong choice from what we've seen, so long as you get fitted. Does that help?
simondaddow thank you for the feedback. So, based on your comments, is the P going to be difficult to work? I. Willing to give up some distance for workability. I’ve been working on adding the 9 different shots to my bag...high mid low, left to right. I love the feel of the Mizuno hmb too.
Chris Yalanis I don't think hard to shape is quite the right term. We'd say the PXG's are just very good at being forgiving for their size and shape. Depending on how you're producing your different shots, over emphasis might not be a bad thing at all. If you go this route we'd suggest waiting until the middle of January though. The HMBs are lovely, if you like the sound and feel they are a very solid option, we think though there's lots of chat to come next year about what's inside hollow irons, which you might want to hear first before taking the plunge.
simondaddow you have me intrigued...PXG has a heroes promotion for military in November...I was about to take the plunge you think that some news in 2020 may have me regretting a current purchase?
Excellent review and analysis. One common thread with a lot of vlogs on game improvement irons is the odd flyer; every "xth" shot will fly much farther than the previous shots thus rendering game improvement irons inconsistent. Personally, I think this is a myth. Your tests and that done by TXG seems to suggest otherwise.
jporter504 Thanks for the feedback, very much appreciated. We just report on what we find (and try to help golfers understand their equipment a little better), there's no agenda of trying to prove one theory or another. We don't look at the data until every club has been hit, and completely respect everyone is entitled to an 'opinion', but accept 'opinion' isn't fact. Hope you continue to enjoy the channel.
I’ve just picked up the game again over the summer, played years ago but took a very long break. I am roughly a par, bogey, par, bogey player at the moment. I am looking for a new set of irons but would prefer to get a set that will be challenging at first but become more rewarding as my game progresses. I don’t have the $ to get a new set every season. I have made noticeable progress in the last 3 months. Would you say going for JPX Forged 4-6 and JPX Tour 7 - P would be a reasonable set? I would prefer to challenge myself and have a set that I can use for years to come.
TRIKushbeachside For a 9 handicapper the set make up you're suggesting sound like a reasonable idea, so long as like you say you're willing to put the effort in with regards to ball striking, especially in the short irons. Hope that helps.
Peter Tamburro A lovely set Peter and a good choice for plenty of club golfers. We've written loads about them over the last 18 months, here's a link to some of it at least. www.todaysgolfer.co.uk/equipment/golf-clubs/irons/mizuno/jpx/mizuno-jpx919-forged-iron/
LOVE your detailed reviews, I hope you keep doing them like this one. I personally, being selfish, would love to see a review like this for "mid handicapper (5-15)" which may appeal to a high % of your viewers? ei... Im a 6 and my gamers are 919HM, I love the looks of my buddies P790 (12) and hit them a lot but even with my better ball striking than him, my misses are just worst with the smaller (less forgiving) P790. Watching your videos Id love to find something almost as forgiving as my 919HM but with med sole and offset, wide soles here in AZ can bounce on our firm fairways. I'm guessing Apex, M5, Z565, Maverak, and i210 may fit in between 919HM and P790 as far as overall forgiveness? Any chance of you ranking those for me? I saw you have 2.5 on P790 and 3 on the Apex, is a half point that much? THX f AZ
Thank you Dave, glad you guys enjoy them. We're just compiling our irons testing for 2020, which will include the most up to date versions of all the clubs you mention. Keep an eye out for it come the end of March. Mid handicap testing is a lovely idea, from experience we've found it can just be so misleading as you often end up assessing how well the golfer has hit each club, rather than the clubs performance. We'll keep searching for the right person though.
Great video guys!! I'm thinking about a new set of irons for next season. I have an old set of Nike pro combos which are forged so naturally I want to stick with forged... was thinking about the Callaway Apex 19 but in the pro combo set just for extra forgiveness on the long irons. Do you know if there any other manufacturers that offer a similar type of combo set?
John Girasoli Thanks for the feedback John, much appreciated. The TaylorMade P760 are hollow in the long and mid irons, but you could also have a look at combining irons from two models if you buy from a company who sell individual irons (Mizuno and Titleist). Does that help?
@@simondaddow I was aware of some people doing it with the new mizuno irons which I love the look of but will look into he titleist too, just need to make sure the lofts/gapping are okay of combining irons from two sets like the mizuno or titleist
Thanks for the heads up Brooks. We're aware of Next Level but they're not easy to get hold of in the UK yet, so haven't done anything with them. Watch this space.
@@todaysgolfer I'm not sure why everyone quotes tour players choices. The top tour players have absolutely nothing in common with 99.99% of golfers. Here's what I think: every tour player is good enough to easily use blades or they should be on tour. The competition is so tight that 1 errant shot puts them out of the money. They get paid to play, they take the gamble with each shot that they will not get paid. Keeping sponsors happy is paramount. They do that by winning, promoting the sponsor gear, helping their brand and being a brand ambassador etc. "Game improvement irons" are mistakenly labeled (twice) 1st) they should be called "Distance improvement irons". 2nd) they're mis-stamped. A 27* lofted iron is a 5 iron not a 7 iron as stamped. They're always designed with a larger face. Easier to hit etc. The sweet spot is the same size on every club ever built. It's the C of G of the club unit. Misshits of just 5 mm (1/4") in any direction will degrade the performance and give the player feedback. By taking this logic to the extreme, a club the size of a garden shovel should be the most forgiving. Unfortunately the physics is unbeatable and it too will have a sweet spot. The ugly truth is: the handicap average isn't coming down. Hasn't for decades and I bet it's increasing. How could that be? Manufacturers make claims of gear that is further, longer, straighter, faster, smoother, more spin less spin etc we should all be driving par 5 500+ yard greens, stopping it 10' past the pin and spinning it back into the hole! I'd rather have a club that gives me accurate feedback when I get it wrong. I can tell when I hit it 1 groove low, 1/4" (5 mm) toe or heel . The feeling and sound when I smash the sweet spot is unparralled. Try that with a chunky monkey club!
@@todaysgolfer I just reread my post and I sound like a bit of an ass. My apologies, I was attempting to make a point but I think I've lost the plot! Anyway, thanks for the great review. For me it's blades or blade combo set and for each golfer to choose for them. I hope people aren't afraid to try blades, there's nothing quite like them IMHO.
You guys do a lot of comparison videos, but there does not seem to be any shaft comparisons in your catalogue. Either using the same shaft on different heads, or different shafts on the same head. With the "make sure to get fitted" qualification being ubiquitous in golf club review videos, some discussion of shafts might be helpful.
Thanks for the feedback Steady. We did a little comparison in our first look video's of the new TaylorMade and Callaway drivers for 2019, but granted we haven't done too much. Will have a look at how best we can do this to be relevant to all in 2020.
Wow - talk about extensive testing!👏 Thinking about club testing/comparison is it not best to start with shots with the same(or very similar) club head speed AND strike location and then go into launch, ball speed, spin (not side as a given that fact he's a decent pro), carry, total etc? Wouldn't that be a true comparison rather than just averages? Great work BTW!👍🤔🏌🏆😵
SuperDuper Awesome Thanks for the feedback, very much appreciated. It's our intention to try and show the comparisons golfers are looking for. Forged irons is obviously a big category. The suggestion is worth some thought, but defining impact location is tricky. To get exact impact locations matches can mean looking at limited numbers of shots, it seems a bit unfair just to go for high - low and toe - heel quadrants.
To be fair, this was a really good review and you weren't actually saying one club was better than another. I have seen some comparison vlogs(not yours) and there has been big differences in strike location (up to 13 mm) and its not even referred to in comparison of the results and in a lot of cases strike is king. Next vlog: How about getting a low and a mid hcap to hit the 'top' three in each category and see which they prefer? 👏👏👍
Today's Golfer: I wasn’t trying to call you guys out. I’m very interested in Honma FORGED irons and when I saw those 747 Ps a while back (because I’m playing off 14) I thought they fit my handicap, so I looked into them and found they were cast, so I took them off my list. I appreciate the confirmation. You guys do GREAT work. Love the channel. Keep it up! (Btw, we need a slow mo of Neil’s swing and maybe a short video on his technique because it’s really good!)
@@garydavis8213 No probs Gary, appreciate the kind words. Neil is a heck of a player. He turned pro off +4, was the holder of 7 course records at the time and he won 3 times last season on the Midlands PGA circuit.
Michael Snakebite Understand where you're going Michael, but TaylorMade had hollow heads in the 90's with ICW5 and ICW11. We were really talking about PXG who brought hollow body tech to the forefront of club design, making it mainstream, a move which lead to TM, Titleist, Ping and Cobra jumping onboard.
I enjoyed this video, but I’m skeptical about how this can help anyone looking to buy new irons. One guy testing this many irons. Not only must there be some fatigue factor considered, also it’s only one type of swing that is likely much better than most people watching this. Also Skytrak was used which I understand to be much less accurate than a Trackman or the like. In my opinion, this video confuses more than helps as there are too many variables and it’s too subjective. I still enjoyed all the 27 minutes of it, but I think one ought to be careful using this to make a purchase decision.
Thanks for the feedback Stefan, completely respect you're entitled to an opinion and the point's you're making. We'd argue through experience we've learn't having shots hit by a single quality player gives a great indication of how models actually compare . Which we feel is pretty useful when it comes to narrowing to a selection of irons you might want to try. Hope you continue to enjoy the channel.
Why is the player iron your category when the data shows u have more ball speed and carry distance drop off with those irons?? I'm confused by the results and the message you are giving?
We're not giving any message Erik, we're simply showing how all the clubs compare in terms of data. Like a lot of good golfers Neil wouldn't choose a set of blades (as they're so unforgiving), he also doesn't need the pure distance of some of the game improver models. The size and shape of Player irons suit his eye, so he'd naturally choose what he see's as best for him.
It really grinds my gears when people try to steer someone away from blades because they don’t have a certain handicap. Ask the question on if you want to be the best ball striker you can be or are you happy with where you are an only plan on playing once in awhile. If someone only plays once in awhile and is happy where they are then cavities would be the best option. If a high handicap player wants to be the best ball striker he can be and bring a handicap to single digits.. get blades... aim small miss small
Respect your opinion Josh. In the instant gratification world we live in, and with golfer numbers shrinking, plus the average age of golfers increasing year on year we might have to agree to disagree on this one.
Mdmchannel are you dedicated to getting better? Do you practice often? Blades will give more feedback then cavities will if you want to find the center of club face. If you strike them well then you obviously need to get your putter and short game dialed in or maybe your having a hard time getting off the tee box in play I’m not sure. My point was blades will help you get better but you have to have the want to. That’s just the way I see it
Very interesting summary especially as I am retooling at irons having wrongly swapped my p760s which is probably the iron set I have liked the best including wrt feel for the pxg 0211 - the latter a little too ping like for my liking. I used to game the srixon 5 series so was looking for something with equal or better distance (not just because of lofts), less drop off and more consistency dispersion wise. Tested the usual suspects from p790 to cobra forged tec, and apex cf19s- none did it for me. I have not tried the Honma 747 p even though I have and like the t747 driver I use. Partly thinking a bit chunky but also because unfortunately the VX not made in left hand at all. Have not tried the wilsons c300 forged or new line thinking Wilson’s! I am going for a test of the pxg 0311 gen 3 line and hope that does the trick. Started Manar many moons ago with the Ben Hogan’s....any thoughts? Also being in my mid to late 60s now.
The PXG Gen3 are very special Aly, the engineering story behind them is impressive, and they look and feel fantastic. Shame on the Honma VX it sounds like they could have been right up your street. If not Srixon irons are due an update come July/August this year.
Today's Golfer Thanks. Good to know. I used to use the z565s for some time. I will see if there is somewhere I can try out the honma 747p just as a reference point and of course the pxgs soon. Mistake I made with my 0211 is going the iron shaft route switching out of graphite and as a result lost 10 yds on every club - oh what age does to one!
Still nothing can compare to the Mizuno MP-32's. Even a used set today will give all these irons a run for their money. They are the still benchmark for forged irons.
There are 2 stand outs from the test for me (1) just how pretty so many of the clubs look, even at the super game improver category, that deserves compliments for the manufacturers (2) what a lot of forged clubs are available for just about every type of player. I have tried a number of the clubs in the test. P790s were so easy to hit, went far and felt nice, JPX919 Tours were amazing feel, surprisingly easy to hit but the 5i was so small to be seriously scary. Then there were the 919 Forged, almost as nice as the Tours, the straightest hitting club I have ever tried but to my slightly too long from heel to toe and for me slightly under performed in back spin (i210s whilst cast were as good a feeling club but definitely looked better and performed better for me). The clubs I would love to try are the MP20-MMC, IMO a much better looking club than the MP18-MMC
I don't get why people are so afraid of blades. I've only used blades since learning the game in my 50's. I think they make you a better golfer and give you more feedback so you can learn. I outplay most of the people I play with who played their whole life and use cavity-back and game-improvement irons.
I think what really sets your reviews apart from everyone else is how frank/honest you guys are. Although this video is not recent, its still so relevant and very helpful.
Thanks for taking the time to say so Gary, really appreciate it.
I went in last yr to buy the Titleist AP2’s and walked out with the Callaway Apex pro’s. i always questioned myself if I did the correct thing. After seeing your results I can finally sleep easy 😴. Love my apex pros. Dropped from 9-10 hdcp down to a 6.3 and will soon be in the 5’s is my hope. Cheers. Loved the video.
Way to go Tod. Thanks for the feedback too, much appreciated.
I’ve got a set of BH ptx pro I’m glad to see you give them a mention really good looking classy looking club and a great value less than $800 a set and they come in chrome and black.
They're lovely galway, we've actually just put them amongst Best 10 Player irons of 2020. Further video coming soon.
I also believe and you probably know this but the 7-4 iron are hollow with permitter weighting with the 8-10 having titanium inserts so had you compared scoring irons I think they would have faired better in terms of front to back dispersion.
@@galgay1 Thanks Galgay, we are aware of the different set make up.
I've been playing Z745 for six years.... Just bought Z585... Age and my back deserve it!!!
Very good choice Luis. Thanks for chipping in.
I just picked up the Cobra CB/MB set 3 weeks ago and I'm loving them. Played the Fly Z+ irons before this and I havent seen any change in carry, I do get more spin, and the swing weight is about half. Love em.
Thanks for your input Jamie.
Srix 785's are absolutely sublime. Looks/Feel/Performance/& Consistency.
Thanks for your input Ross, Srixon are very under rated.
Went with Apex/Apex pro Combo set, More forgiveness in the longer irons, better feel in the shorter Irons. Absolutely love them.
An excellent choice in our book Peter, both irons are amongst our favourites of 2020.
Hollow irons have been around since the 80's. I used to play a set of Titleist B33's. They were long but it was hard to work the ball. I sold them
and bought a set of Hogan Apex Redlines. I still play the Hogans.
I was custom fitted for Callaway Apex 19’ Pro Forged earlier this year at Club Champion NJ (USA) and absolutely love them, a great combo of feel & forgiveness as clearly demonstrated by these results. Playing off a 2.8 handicap these are a great choice. Could play blades but I’m not a pro and can use the extra forgiveness just like pro’s do... Handicap is low, mostly due to my short game/putting..
Stephen DiBari Good choice Stephen, we've been big fans of anything Apex for a few years. Latest Pro model with cup face down to 7-iron are a great shout.
simondaddow thanks ! Very happy with these irons ! Was getting 10 yards avg. more carry w. 6 iron compared to my previous X-forged irons ! The fitter was blown away too
OMG so much waffle
Awesome video, great job guys. Thank you for putting in all the work to help us average joes better our game. Big thumbs up here.
Really appreciate you taking the time to say so Kerry, thank you. Always pleased to help.
I play the 919 Tour irons, and they just feel like something else entirely. I've improved so much with these irons and even with their 34 degree loft, I average 175y here in Melbourne at sea level. I'm a 43 year old, not quite as limber as I once was but hitting it better than I ever have. Wonderful set of clubs. I'm surprised how little mention they get, with the Forged irons getting so much press. Not sure how that works given that the Forged irons are game improvement irons as compared to the players irons the Tours are. The top line and offset of the Forged just take them off the table for me entirely.
I read this article in detail in the magazine. It was very interesting and quite a surprise. Whilst the data can't lie, I wonder if it is now worth grouping irons in the Player category by their loft rather that their type. I play Wilson V6 (and am very happy), but its no wonder they perform less well in distance than the top in group because of their incredibly weak lofts. In my V6s, to have a loft of 30 degrees you're looking at a 5-iron, not a 7-iron as tested. Compare the V6 data with the Titleist CB data, and its roughly the same (apart from drop off). PS not sour grapes at finishing "last" in group LOL!
It's all swings and roundabouts really. The V6 didn't finish 'last' in our eyes, they're a lovely set of irons with lofts set up for their intended audience. We posted results on the board from longest to shortest, to be as easy to understand as possible.
We're not really about identifying winners and losers but much more about showing how similar products compare.
It's highly unlikely golfers looking at buying a set of V6 would be concerned with distance. Be safe in the knowledge, you own a lovely set of irons you're happy with.
@@todaysgolfer Totally get it - your data set and analysis is definitely the most comprehensive from anybody out there. Definitely well worth doing and gives us all something to compare. Thanks for doing it ;)
I've been playing the c300 forged for the last 12 months and they are fantastic. They have traditional lofts but still go plenty far enough and feel great. I play off 9 and have been through lots of irons, i had the P790s but didn't get on with them. Don't think i will be changing anytime soon.
Thanks for the comment and feedback Greg.
In the same boat...super iron. Nothing out their as good imo!!
looking at their data it performs better than most of the player's irons. surprised they didn't mention it
Another great review by TG, albeit not quite as objective as your recent premium ball test. There are so many choices of irons it's quite frankly, mind boggling. I currently play Ping G irons and play off 6. I have decided to treat myself to a nice set of forged irons and as a senior golfer I will be looking at graphite shafts. Based on my research and your testing I have narrowed my choices down to three makes - JPX 919 Forged, Callaway Apex 19 and Srixon Z585. All are forged but could be argued to be 'game improvement' irons. I believe Mizuno and Srixon do not up-charge for their graphite shafts, so they are favourites.
Nice choices Ray and thanks for the feedback.
If you're interested, we've ranked all the irons we've tested this year for forgiveness on the link below. Can be helpful to know which models are in the same categories.But it looks like you're on the ball anyway.
bit.ly/2Y85kqN
wow so much great data . thanks a lot for the none bias info . it was my first time on this channel and ill come back for sure
Glad you enjoyed it and saw the value in such a video. Thanks so much for taking the time to feedback.
Thank you, Simon. It's 2023 and I'm looking for a forged game improvement iron. Anything newer I should consider? Thank you!
There's not masses of forged options within the game improvement arena Gordon. But the Srixon ZX4 MKII, Callaway Apex DCB, PXG 0311 GEN6 P or XP and new Titleist T350 would be making our shortlist.
My local shop is selling new Homna irons fitted for $650. This review is making it a no brained for me to go in and give them a go.
That sounds like a steal DJ.
This is how you make a comparison video... great job guys
Thanks for the feedback Billy, very much appreciated.
Excellent video lads. Another big undertaking with the amount of data and you did great!
Thanks Michael it was a lot of effort but well worth it. The Srixon Z585's are in there, they're just tucked away in the Game Improver category (around 22 mins in). Hope that helps.
If it's easier you can view all the data on our website here
bit.ly/2PbGpgT
Good test of the equipment that was selected for review... One factor that ought to be mentioned is that a golfer with a higher handicap and slower swing speed may need a different shaft in the irons to obtain optimal results.
Exactly why we endorse a proper fitting.
A lot of works with huge amount of iron information, two thumbs up!
Wilson Hung Thanks so much for taking the time to say so Wilson, very much appreciated.
Forged game improvement pioneer was Hogan Edge.
I am playing the new Hogan PTx Pro irons, I love them!
Good choice Ken.
The most beautiful irons out there. Great clubs
Excellent video again! I hit the Srixon Z545 and every two years srixon comes out with a new game improvement iron but as much as I like the sole I don't see me upgrading to the 565 or the 585s until I see better results. and you proved it...585s are good but not as good as the 785s
Thanks for the feedback and input Robert, much appreciated.
@@todaysgolfer im a scratch. i have the 4-6 585s wouldnt trade them for anything...little to no offset, uber forgiving nice feel....
@@jergernice1 Cracking set, thanks for your input.
Great video..really appreciate all the information and dedication to detail...Makes it much easier to choose what will work in ones game.....Thank You....
Glad we could help Allah, thanks for taking the time to feedback, it's very much appreciated.
No Srixon Z-Forged? That aside, this is the best forged iron content video hands down. Well done.
We didn't have the Z-Forged at the time Sam. New 2020 video's coming up soon will include the Z-Forged however.
Thanks for the lovely feedback, very much appreciated.
Great video had my wilson staff c300 forged a season now and they will be in the bag for years to come. Chose on price and value and i haven't played a better iron in my years of golfing.
Darren bell Glad to hear it Darren, they're a lovely set, which blend tech, forged feel and price. Good choice.
Without scrutinizing the data properly it's hard to see for sure but it seemed to me that there was a correlation between loft and drop offs. Clubs with more loft seemed to have smaller drop offs.
I would like to see a video where you compiled a data set like this for one full set of players irons and one set of GI irons side by side. It would be interesting to see how a 30° 7 compared to a 30°6 and how they compare in the longer and shorter irons rather than just the standard 7.
Thanks for the feedback Robert. The test you suggest is on our radar, it's not quite as easy as it sounds as shaft length differs, which affects speed, dispersion and distance too.
@@todaysgolfer it's a no win situation for you guys. If you don't keep everything the same people moan it's not a fair test but at the same time comparing a players iron alongside a gi iron I would t expect everything to be the same.
@@robertcourt8593 Finally somebody who appreciates how difficult real world testing is.
Great informative info presented in easy to understand data for an average golfer like myself, without getting too technical. For the hollow-back and game improvement categories what handicap range to do you class these to be in your opinion? I am a 18 handicapper so would help knowing what you would say is “in theory” my bracket for now and also to improve within without needing more in 12 months time. I love the look like most players of the P790’s but would appreciate your comments as to the handicap range in these two categories so can look at those when out of lockdown. Thanks 🙏
Thanks for the question Jonathan, it's a really good one and exactly why we use handicap guides from time to time (even though some people don't agree they're a good idea).
We're just pulling together our 'Which Iron Suits me 2020' feature at the moment. You can see last years versions here, if that helps?
TaylorMade: bit.ly/2XK9Z2b
Ping: bit.ly/2K2ao7N
Callaway: bit.ly/34xVAHD
Mizuno: bit.ly/3a9EQHI
Wilson: bit.ly/3b5fLPG
PXG: bit.ly/3ejVibJ
Cobra: bit.ly/2Vuc3bJ
This is really great stuff gents. Your presentation is fantastically done, and easy to digest. You may have already addressed this, but did you feel like all of the clubs were similarly set up? Shafts, weighting, etc?
Thank you so much for taking the time to say so Ryan, it's very much appreciated.
We use standard stock set ups, as it's what's available to consumers straight off the rack, unfortunately that's still how the majority of golfers buy.
Hi, great review but could you clarify which shafts and balls were used?
Also could you please post a link to the data. Can’t find it on your website, thank you.
Really appreciate the work you put in to your videos, many thanks
Thanks Neil, very much appreciated.
thank you so much for this fine episode. Totally agree with John Self comment (Thanks John) Stay well.
Thank you for taking the time to feed back, very much appreciate the comment.
Do the hollow body irons change over time? If the face is flexing each hit won't it eventually loose it's spring? Same for all thin faced clubs. For someone who keeps clubs for years will the face or the foam filling loose it's effects? Clubs are often left in sub zero garages and then subjected to high heat in cars. How if any does this affect the club. Maybe take a thin faced club and hit it a thousand times and test it. I have some real reservations of foam or thin faces staying true over time. Thanks.
Honma really does make a phenomenal iron. I'm still playing with my lb 727 cavity tour's and to this day I have yet to find an iron that matches it in precision. You aim at your target and it finds it within 3 feet! I like other irons also when talking about distance but they pale in comparison when it comes to shot placement.
Thanks for your input Ian.
I think this is a very informative video but I still can't get behind the handicap ranges you guys say. if I high handicap that strikes the iron really well but sucks at putting they can play blades right? but i guess that is up to the consumer to think about when they test them out.
Thanks for the comment Ascend, we've said several times before that our handicap guides are just that - guides (they're not hard and fast rules).
Appreciate some golfers find them useful, while others don't. Club designers and engineers target specific golfers with their irons, and brands know what sort of handicap ranges each model typically sells too. We're just trying to highlight who each model might work for/ is designed for.
Gotcha, this is the 2nd video I've seen so far. Looking forward to more reviews!
THE most important issue here is swing mechanics; it trumps any other single factor, this guy has a classy swing which is clearly consistent too,
It's exactly why we use Neil, consistency means you can analyse each club, with player performance playing less of a role.
REgarding Players Irons: I was a custom fit last Feb (2019) for Callaway Apex Pro Smoked Forged 19 irons. (5-PW). Looking back at my Trackman #’s with my 7 iron: Swing Speed: 80.0 mph; Ball Speed 108.5 mph; Launch Angle 18.0; BackSpin 4,465 rpm; Carry 155.3 yards ; Total 167.8 yards; Height 75 Ft. attack angle -5.0
I play off a USGA 2.4 handicap, mostly because of a strong short game, especially putting: My Arccos putting handicap is +5.4.
I see Neils ball speed is 121 mph far greater than my 108.5, this is has to be the reason why I’m only getting 4,465 rpm of backspin!! ANother reason why I recently sold my APex Pro Smoked forged 19 irons. ! Unfortunately it was a big price to pay, sold them for only 1/3 of what i paid
Not happy with the fitter at Club Champion NJ, but its too late now. Ill be going for a custom fit in a few months after my shoulder rehab is completed ... Ping i210 irons will be my choice ... I haven’t hit them yet but have watched nearly every RUclips review available... Love the looks and these are more traditional lofted which should help me with my swing speed
I like the I500 better,,,demo both first.
Lots of information you lads have given and a lot of work which I appreciate your time and efforts in this interesting video👍👏
Personally I won a set of Mizuno mps of my choice through James Robinson golf and i chose the mp20s HMB through the bag and I’ve kept the lofts as standard 32 degrees is fine for myself carry around 158-163 with the correct height and spin required. I could go 2 degrees stronger but I honestly feel I don’t need too as these clubs are just beautiful and the feel is second too none in my opinion.
Thanks so much for taking the time to feedback Geordie, it's very much appreciated. Good choice on the HMB's too.
simondaddow Thank you Simon 👍
Would love to see the difference in this test with someone in the 12 handi range. Then again with maybe an 18. Would be fun to see the results difference
We've talked about this so many times.
Finding 12 and 18 handicappers that are consistent enough to show meaningful comparisons is tough from experience. If you're not careful you end up analysing the performance of the golfer rather than the club, which can be very misleading.
@@todaysgolfer thank you for the reply. I guess I miss understood the data. When reviewing it, I thought the blades were more "forgiving" for Neil based on the yards drop off showing a lower percentage.
Your opinion
Apex 16, ap1 716 or 919 forged??
Apex 16 are very tough to beat for us Kevin.
@@todaysgolfer thanks guys! I’ll let you know how they work out. They should be here soon 😃👍🏻
I hit my p790's a little to low and wonder if adding loft to a hollow head would affect overall control and performance.
John Surlet We've never tried it John, but don't see why adding loft would lose control. Worth trying on one iron perhaps before attempting the whole set?
its probably the loft on the clubs. you are almost using a 5 iron loft of your 7 iron club.
Mac Gregor came out with the first hollow forged irons many moons ago.
I had a set (V foil M 565 ) good irons still , lofts may be a little weak by modern standards.
ThinkoutsidetheTbox just bought a set of the m565 in great nick, grew up with macgregor have a soft spot for them looking forward to going backwards in my irons😂 i’m betting they play just as good as whats around nowadays.
@@darrenpayce6121 Rifle shafts ?
ThinkoutsidetheTbox yes rifle shafts.
When you tested the Hogan irons what shaft did you use? I think Hogan gives you a choice of 4 different metal shafts?
We tested with the KBS Tour V Michael, hope that helps.
Great info and good detail. I'm on the hunt for new irons, handicap is 10 and don't need distance I need more consistent control in flight, distance etc. Going for my first custom fit irons soon, any recommendations?? The guy I'm going to adviced to at least have an idea of what ones I fancy to try them and others out but new to packing irons. Currently play with Internet bought calloway xhot irons and woods. Cheers 🍻
Would you describe yourself as a decent ball striker with your irons? Or would some extra forgiveness be beneficial?
It sounds like you might well be on the fence choosing between traditional player and game improver models, as if you're not chasing distance then fast face tech doesn't really need to come into the equation.
Thanks for your reply 😁 I'd say my ball striking is OK, I tend to be always pin high but when miss it's left and right which I think is down to my swing plane and follow through (getting a lesson to confirm this before fitting) I might be wrong tho haha! Had a lesson last year and he advised it's my follow through that's causing the inconsistency.
I thought if I get fitted clubs and some lessons it might sort it all out 🤔 my distance is always been on the long side so thinking even if dropping yardage a bit to gain more control would be a good thing.
My woods go far but seem to stop dead and never roll out so I'll need to address that as well as it seems to be too much backspin.
Do you think i should test out say a couple forgiving irons and some player ones and see if there is much change?
Cheers 🍻
I’m thinking of purchasing the callaway x forged irons but I don’t see them on your test graph.
Hi Martin, Callaway X-Forged irons are discontinued in the UK, hence why they're not in the video. Link below to the previous years video which includes the X-Forged if you're interested.
ruclips.net/video/Ke7millQu40/видео.html
Hope that helps.
I play blades with a 12 hcp because I love the look and cant wait to hit them , but that's not one of your categories but it's the most important to me .
By the way I've had my best rounds with blades nothing better for stopping on baked summer greens .
By the way I've played with the most forgiving cavities and I still play to 12 ha ha . You should as a recreational golfer play what you love it's why you want to go out and play
Thanks for the input Alan, completely understand your point.
We're not really trying to establish a 'winner' as such with our tests, but show people how the leading models compare, so they can make a more informed buying decision.
Enjoy the blades.
Im looking at new irons. I currently use apex cf16 but find them too hot off the face. So i think i may go for blend of a players iron/blade to a hollow
Srixon Z 785 or the Honma T//World 747 V would be well worth looking at Daniel, completely appreciate not all golfers want hot face irons.
I really hate when people assign a handicap limit on blades. From the time I first picked up a club, I never liked how cavity backs looked. When I hit a blade.... the look, the feel, where the weight of the club sits, I love it. I’ve played blades as an 18 hcp beginner all the way to breaking into single digits last season. Use what you like.
Completely understand where you're coming from and we won't argue with your opinion.
In the real world though club designers and engineers have a 'target golfer' in mind when designing new models. And brands are well aware of the typical standard of golfer who buy each.
@@todaysgolfer Agree that they do target certain golfers, players distance clubs are a fine example. Although, that particular genre has always made me giggle a little bit. If you can strike the ball well, you probably have a good swing. If you have a good swing, it's not hard to have decent clubhead speed. If you have decent clubhead speed, you'll be hitting that players distance 7 iron 200 yards or better.
@@AnonyMous-jf4lc See where you're coming from. Simon in the video is a decent example though of a golfer, who used to play off 4, now plays off ten and really struggles to generate speed and distance.
He has no problem flighting shots high enough to use strong lofts.
Strong lofts have transformed high iron game and meant he can still compete.
Any chance you could include some DTC irons in your comparisons? For example Sub 70 and New Level. I really appreciate you explaining the parameters for how you measure consistency. Thanks.
We feature the Ben Hogan's Dennis, truth is though we are a UK golf magazine and we produce video content to support what we create within our magazine and on our website.
With Sub 70 and New Level only being available to purchase in US dollars, very few sets ever make it to the UK.
The Dunlop Deltic was a hollow body iron, mid 1980s.
I'm sure there were others too, they didn't have the marketing skill back then.
Thanks for chipping in, there's been plenty over the years, most of which didn't quite catch on. Today though the hollow body category is alive and kicking.
why doesn't ball speed drop off seem to correlate directly with carry drop off?
rick leeo you will often also get a spin drop off ... so more roll out
Great video, a shame it came before the Wilson D7 forged were released.. I wonder how they would have matched up.
Thanks for the feedback Roy. We're just completing our 2020 testing right now, which the D7 Forged is part off.
We should have a video and data comparisons live within a few weeks. Look out for a 'Best of 2020 - Player Iron' video.
Hollow cavity forged irons been around since about 2007. Check the Macgregor Mactec NVG2 game improvement irons which TG reviewed and assigned a low score of 3/5 but most of the users assigned a score of 5/5. This video is an interesting review but I think that it does not give visibility on what is truly available out there and what is affordable. To get more people playing golf and trust me the industry needs more people, you need to feature a broader spectrum of irons.
How come the hollow section the lynx prowler vt wasnt in the gang? And how you’ll you put it up against the other top of the line hollow irons
We tested the VT the previous year Jada (link to the video below) we usually try to avoid including models after more than a year, as we just end up repeating ourselves and it's a product subscribers have seen before.
ruclips.net/video/Ke7millQu40/видео.html
I am an average player with an Index ranging from 13.0 to 14.5. and have overcome significant injuries for the past 10 years. I believe from your video, Ben Hogan's PTx Pro 3's with a regular shaft will give me the forgiveness I want and the feel of the forged head. Any comment.
Thanks for the comment, it really depends what you want from a new set of irons. The PTx Pro are lovely but there are faster and longer models out there if that's what you want chase.
If you can, we'd be inclined to try the Hogan's against a couple of other models to see how different they are at your swing speed.
Nice round up, thanks for all the hard work. 9 years ago Mizuno released the JPX 800 Pro which I think falls into same "forged game improvement iron" bracket as the JPX919 Forged? I'm considering an update. When I bought the JPX 800 Pro's they were the only forged option I could see in that category.
Good point on distance - I can stop my 7 iron confidently on a green and wouldn't consider the Callaway Epic Forged while I still have enough speed to get there.
Thanks for the feedback Jason, much appreciated.
i have the 919 forged . they are great irons played them alle year gone from 19.8 to 11.8
@@bjarkebk3735 thanks, that likely makes them as forgiving as my 800 Pro's. And congrats on the fine golf!
What a great and informative video. Thanks guys
Thank you for taking the time to feedback Phil, glad you got something from it.
Definitely Wilson Staff is the most underrated brand in the golf world. Moreover, the money they save from marketing allows them to make their products less expensive
Thanks for chipping in, appreciate your input.
Good stuff, I think you guys do the best reviews on RUclips. I don't necessarily agree all the time but enjoy your content.
I'm glad I come from an era where looking at a blade is right and looking at a game improvement iron just doesn't look good. I only carry down to a 5 iron and one does need to be willing to regularly practice to be sharp. If you love the game you probably already put in your time on the practice range anyway. If you're a weekend warrior who just wants to show up, drive a cart around, and have a few beers, yeah maybe blades are not the best choice. For the golf nuts, try blades, they're not as scary as many will have you believe.
I recently spent several hours on a launch monitor with several different clubs. I will say the Wilson Staff blades were great looking and "long" for a blade. Was consistently hitting it 5-7 yards further than the others. I would have strongly considered them had Wilson offered them in the shaft I want to play.
The Mizuno MBs look great and did feel so nice when struck well. They offer great shaft and grip selections for no additional upcharge as well.
For me I narrowed it down to the Titleist 620MB and the T100. Titleist did a great job with the T100 designing a club that from the top standing over the ball, is indistinguishable from the MB. I spent an entire evening going back and forth between the two. I was not crazy about the T100 overall aesthetics but was prepared to go with them if they provided a slight edge in performance. The T100s with 1 degree stronger lofts and a small cavity back were expected to have slightly more ball speed and forgiveness. For me they did not. After probably a hundred shots with each, the numbers were nearly identical to the 620MBs. The T100s launched a little higher and had less spin for me. The 620s felt better than the T100s and I liked the lower launch and higher spin. The satin finish and minimalist retro look of the 620MB are tops of any club out there right now to me.
Go spend a few nights on the launch monitor with all the clubs and find the one that you like looking down on the best. Almost every time that will end up being the club you strike the best. If the numbers match up with what you want them to do on the course, there you go.
Thanks so much for the feedback and your comment Luke. Love that you like our content but don't always agree, great to hear your opinion too.
I just bought a second hand set of Mizuno JPX 850 forged irons and have so far only hit at the range. Based on the tracer tech at the range, I'm getting 15-20 yards more distance when I compared my previous cavity back MX17's, but I do notice that small vibration on off-centre hits. So I'm just wondering which of the forged irons you tested would be most comparable to the 850 forged and if you know what forgiveness rating the 850's would be? Thanks and great video, really informative and clearly a lot of effort went into it!
Thanks for the comment and feedback. Sorry the 850's were a bit before we started doing forgiveness ratings. We'd just be guessing if we offered an opinion. Apologies.
Just looking at some of the irons leaning against the wall behind you , there seem to be different lengths of shaft which is going to improve ball speed and distance . And they will presumably have different shafts , my question is if they all had same length and shaft what would be your results?
All the clubs were at each manufacturers standard length Paul. But you're right you might well find some of the blades have shorter shafts than the game improver models, thats how brands choose to set up their equipment. And remember there are no 'standard' lengths between all brands in the industry.
It wouldn't really make much sense to test all the irons with the same shaft model, because it would create some very misleading data. For instance no brand would create a very strong lofted iron (like the Honma T//World 747 P) and team it up with a heavy, low launching shaft like the True Temper Dynamic Gold. Essentially you'd be testing products that would never be designed that way.
great review but its a shame you couldn't test the new cobra forged tec hollow body design in standard and one length as its reasonably priced at £899 for 7 irons.
Yes. This.
We did ask Andy, unfortunately Cobra could not let us have a sample in time. Apologies.
Thanks for the feedback though.
Currently playing TM MC Forged irons (8yrs). 10.4 hdcp. I recently went shopping for new irons to see what's out there and tried a lot of irons. One that seemed really smooth was the Srixon Z585 with the Modus 3 105 shaft. With 7 iron - avg club speed was 93mph, launch around 19deg, apex 90-100', spin about 5900, avg carry 190 (3deg stronger than MC's). Question is - the 7 iron felt great in simulator, should the rest of the clubs perform as well on the course or am I taking a slight step back in playability if I replace my TM with these? Thanks.
It's not a step back at all so long as it's the Z585 Weldon. Srixon's Z785 is much more a player model where the Z585 has some fast face tech. The 585 is a lovely model too, and a nice step from the MC's.
Does that help?
@@todaysgolfer It does - a lot!! Thanks for the response. I just had to admit to myself that I needed a little help since my play frequency has dropped off due to LIFE!! They are some hot clubs with those lofts. I'm going to have to add a wedge to the bag.
Without performing variable regression on loft (and shaft), what meaning does the data provide?
We see it as showing a great comparison between the leading models Matt. Some of the typical feedback is helping golfers narrow their selection to a couple/few models before going to try each for themselves.
I noticed at the beginning of the video , are you doing this test with range balls? I hope not. testing irons on feel and spin rate, launch and decent angle with range balls is a waste. If not used range balls , then a great informative video. Great job.
Thanks for the feedback Gerdon.
Like a lot of our test sessions, the data was created inside using a premium ball. But because 'outdoor' videos look better on camera, we shoot the video part outdoors using range balls.
Hope that explains.
Looking at the data of the players irons, I was surprised that the Wilson C300 forged didn't get an honourable mention.
They were just in the process of being retired and superseded by the D7 Forged when this video was shot Kym. Apologies.
Great work and video!
Nice repeating swing + tempo to work with. Thanks from Oregon, USA
Thank you so much for taking the time to say so, very much appreciated.
Hi, i hit the Wilson D7 forged iron the other day to replace my Nike Vapor Fly cavity back, and it felt great but i didnt see it up on your list. Do you know much about those?
Hi Alan, the D7 Forged were released after this video was created.
We test the D7 Forged in our best Mid Handicap/ Game Improver Iron 2020 test if that helps?
You can see it here ruclips.net/video/nPpQpNbDO5o/видео.html
Great job guys, always love your in-depth, stats-based analysis. However in the players iron group, I just can’t agree with the big wrap given to the Honma Vx.
• Lowest spin by a long way in that group
• Lowest descent angle - there is no way that 7 iron is stopping on a links green in Summer!
• big drop off in ball speed/ carry distance (almost as much drop off in distance as the Cobra, which you quite rightly said may belong in the game improvement category. Honestly, I think they probably both do with their 30 degree lofts)
On numbers I think the Apex Pro probably takes the Players category, with small drop offs, good distance, spin and descent angle (and no.... I’m not a Callaway player)
I actually play the Wilson C300 Forged. I look at those numbers and smile contentedly:
• better than average ball speed
• from a weaker than average loft
• with the highest spin rate in the category
• highest ball flight & steepest descent angle
• almost average distance in the category (in my hands they carry 175 yards, much longer than my previous irons, and I know in your previous tests have averaged 173 yards)
• equal 2nd in the category for drop offs
• not much more expensive than the Hogans (which had a carry distance drop-off almost as bad as the Cobras!)
• and unlike Hogan you don’t have to buy online, so you can still be custom fit!!
And how good are those Wilson Staff blades? They do make great irons....
Cheers!
Cam
Cameron Loveless Thanks for the feedback Cam. The clubs are only listed in carry distance because it's probably the simplest way to display the information. It wasn't in any way intended to be a ranking. Completely understand where you're coming from on the Honma, we really do these tests so golfers can see what the stronger loft etc does in terms of ball speed.
Like we say with Epic Forged, it feels like a step too far. Hope you continue to enjoy the channel.
I was custom fitted for Callaway Apex Pro Forged earlier this year at Club Champion NJ (USA) and absolutely love them, a great combo of feel & forgiveness as clearly demonstrated by these results. Playing off a 2.8 handicap these are a great choice. Could play blades but I’m not a pro and can use the extra forgiveness just like pro’s do... Handicap is low, mostly due to my short game/putting..
Stephen DiBari nice one. I’m playing off 14.3 so will stick with the Wilsons for now! 😜👍🏼
simondaddow I understand what you’re saying, but Neil was absolutely gushing over those Honmas, and apart from ball speed & distance (which are clearly due to the strong loft) I don’t think the stats are that good.
Love your videos, very informative. I currently play a set of hand me downs that are for a better player. They are Taylormade Tour Preferred MC. How would you rate them on a forgiveness aspect? Thanks in advance.
Thanks for the feedback rafa, very much appreciated. We didn't have the forgiveness rating we use today back when the Tour Preferred were about, but from memory we'd probably have them at either a 2 or 2.5 on our forgiveness rating today.
Hope that helps.
i been playing with the callaway rogues, enjoy the clubs but for game improvement would you think next year upgrading to the apex 19 (not pro) would be a nice jump to next level? I'm good on my iron game but want that next step up just all nervous if the apex is worth the jump? thanks
Thanks for the question Joe, sure you can appreciate it's difficult to answer questions knowing nothing about your game.
You didn't mention your handicap?
The Apex 19 (not Pro) is a player's distance iron that we see as sitting on the fence between player and game improving models. They are a lovely model, but could be replaced later this year (if having the latest model is important to you).
Might be a good idea to try them right alongside the Rogue on a launch monitor and see how they compare. If you are a reasonable iron player they are a lovely step above the rogue for us.
Wondering how Cobra Forged Tec’s performance (20yd dropoff) review could differ so much from your Ben Hogan review (19yd dropoff). Price alone?
Not quite sure what you're asking. Probably worth making it clear this was Cobra's cavity back Forged Tec iron not the new 2019/2020 hollow body model.
@@todaysgolfer In the vid, you mentioned that the Ben Hogan's had great performance (19 yd dropoff). But you implied that the Cobras didn't perform well. It was a 1yd dropoff difference. I was asking if price was the determining factor, being that the Ben Hogans had a better price/performance ratio (per your test).
Side note (since you mentioned it): It would have been more clear if you mentioned that the Cobras tested in the players category were not the 2020 hollow body version. I for one recently purchased the 2020 model and assumed you meant them in your video.
@@sshadow2 Completely agree. Trouble is when the video was shot in October, there had been no mention of any new Cobra model.
@@sshadow2 The sound of the Cobra's was a determining factor too, it's quite loud compared to some of the competition.
I’m in the market for irons right now. I hit the PXG P and T models today, as well as the Mizuno HMB. The Ps were the most forgiving, and provided the best distance. But, I”m concerned about the front to back variability in distances. Also, will the width of the sole significantly affect my ability to improve my game? I’m an 11.8 index right now and trending downward. I was a 22 4 years ago. All of the models felt great. Is there a notable difference in workability (draw/fade) in these models? On a related note, I did hit some blades (MP20), which felt great. But the price I paid with inconsistency might be more than I should consider in a real round. Thoughts? Thank you!
Chris Yalanis Really good question Chris, congrats on getting your handicap trending down. For us, having seen all the evidence we have, we'd be very wary of blades, unless for whatever reason you feel they're the only style of iron for you.
We've seen zero evidence to say the PXG P and T would give bigger variability in carry distance drop off's, in fact because of the tech inside they're probably one of the most consistent across the face for ball speeds. From our experience PXG are keen to fit on attack angle, so if a wide sole gets in the way of your ball striking you'll know now not later. For the head size PXG are forgiving, thanks to the tungsten weights, we have heard a couple of times how they're the straightest iron several golfers have hit, which might play a role in your decision if you're targeting workability over forgiveness.
It sounds like you've got a couple of lovely irons on your shortlist, it's difficult to make the wrong choice from what we've seen, so long as you get fitted.
Does that help?
simondaddow thank you for the feedback. So, based on your comments, is the P going to be difficult to work? I. Willing to give up some distance for workability. I’ve been working on adding the 9 different shots to my bag...high mid low, left to right. I love the feel of the Mizuno hmb too.
Chris Yalanis I don't think hard to shape is quite the right term. We'd say the PXG's are just very good at being forgiving for their size and shape. Depending on how you're producing your different shots, over emphasis might not be a bad thing at all. If you go this route we'd suggest waiting until the middle of January though.
The HMBs are lovely, if you like the sound and feel they are a very solid option, we think though there's lots of chat to come next year about what's inside hollow irons, which you might want to hear first before taking the plunge.
simondaddow you have me intrigued...PXG has a heroes promotion for military in November...I was about to take the plunge you think that some news in 2020 may have me regretting a current purchase?
Chris Yalanis Possibly Chris, yes. Sorry we can’t say more at this stage.
Excellent review and analysis. One common thread with a lot of vlogs on game improvement irons is the odd flyer; every "xth" shot will fly much farther than the previous shots thus rendering game improvement irons inconsistent. Personally, I think this is a myth. Your tests and that done by TXG seems to suggest otherwise.
jporter504 Thanks for the feedback, very much appreciated. We just report on what we find (and try to help golfers understand their equipment a little better), there's no agenda of trying to prove one theory or another. We don't look at the data until every club has been hit, and completely respect everyone is entitled to an 'opinion', but accept 'opinion' isn't fact. Hope you continue to enjoy the channel.
I’ve just picked up the game again over the summer, played years ago but took a very long break. I am roughly a par, bogey, par, bogey player at the moment. I am looking for a new set of irons but would prefer to get a set that will be challenging at first but become more rewarding as my game progresses. I don’t have the $ to get a new set every season. I have made noticeable progress in the last 3 months. Would you say going for JPX Forged 4-6 and JPX Tour 7 - P would be a reasonable set? I would prefer to challenge myself and have a set that I can use for years to come.
TRIKushbeachside For a 9 handicapper the set make up you're suggesting sound like a reasonable idea, so long as like you say you're willing to put the effort in with regards to ball striking, especially in the short irons.
Hope that helps.
Any thoughts on the 919 forged?
Peter Tamburro A lovely set Peter and a good choice for plenty of club golfers. We've written loads about them over the last 18 months, here's a link to some of it at least. www.todaysgolfer.co.uk/equipment/golf-clubs/irons/mizuno/jpx/mizuno-jpx919-forged-iron/
LOVE your detailed reviews, I hope you keep doing them like this one. I personally, being selfish, would love to see a review like this for "mid handicapper (5-15)" which may appeal to a high % of your viewers? ei... Im a 6 and my gamers are 919HM, I love the looks of my buddies P790 (12) and hit them a lot but even with my better ball striking than him, my misses are just worst with the smaller (less forgiving) P790. Watching your videos Id love to find something almost as forgiving as my 919HM but with med sole and offset, wide soles here in AZ can bounce on our firm fairways. I'm guessing Apex, M5, Z565, Maverak, and i210 may fit in between 919HM and P790 as far as overall forgiveness? Any chance of you ranking those for me? I saw you have 2.5 on P790 and 3 on the Apex, is a half point that much? THX f AZ
Thank you Dave, glad you guys enjoy them.
We're just compiling our irons testing for 2020, which will include the most up to date versions of all the clubs you mention. Keep an eye out for it come the end of March.
Mid handicap testing is a lovely idea, from experience we've found it can just be so misleading as you often end up assessing how well the golfer has hit each club, rather than the clubs performance.
We'll keep searching for the right person though.
Dave Keppler Try the MP-20 HMB.
Great video guys!! I'm thinking about a new set of irons for next season. I have an old set of Nike pro combos which are forged so naturally I want to stick with forged... was thinking about the Callaway Apex 19 but in the pro combo set just for extra forgiveness on the long irons. Do you know if there any other manufacturers that offer a similar type of combo set?
John Girasoli Thanks for the feedback John, much appreciated. The TaylorMade P760 are hollow in the long and mid irons, but you could also have a look at combining irons from two models if you buy from a company who sell individual irons (Mizuno and Titleist). Does that help?
@@simondaddow I was aware of some people doing it with the new mizuno irons which I love the look of but will look into he titleist too, just need to make sure the lofts/gapping are okay of combining irons from two sets like the mizuno or titleist
Great great test !! Thx a lot !
Thanks for taking the time to say so Laurent, much appreciated.
Thanks for not telling me I should be a 5 handicap or lower to play my P760 irons this time.
We've always said any handicap recommendations are just guides Robert. We appreciate some golfers find them useful, others not so.
You guys may want to take a look at New Level irons . There well worth taking a look at!
Thanks for the heads up Brooks. We're aware of Next Level but they're not easy to get hold of in the UK yet, so haven't done anything with them.
Watch this space.
Ive got hollow body irons from the early 2000s. Nickent ARC blades.
And you're still happy with them Chester?
@@todaysgolfer They arent todays latest and greatest shiny object, but they arent $4000 for the same tech. Hit ball, ball go. Simple.
If a game improvement iron is perfectly struck is it as accurate and consistent as a similarly hit pure blade?
David allen Yes
Wilson so underrated great looking iron and at a super value price.
Very well said Seve.
Blades are always the best policy ! You'll be a better player in no time. Distance dispersion is critical and the blades do this best by far.
It's one view for sure.
Less than 10% of tour pros play blades which should be enough to highlight how they're a solid match for very few.
@@todaysgolfer I'm not sure why everyone quotes tour players choices. The top tour players have absolutely nothing in common with 99.99% of golfers. Here's what I think: every tour player is good enough to easily use blades or they should be on tour. The competition is so tight that 1 errant shot puts them out of the money. They get paid to play, they take the gamble with each shot that they will not get paid. Keeping sponsors happy is paramount. They do that by winning, promoting the sponsor gear, helping their brand and being a brand ambassador etc.
"Game improvement irons" are mistakenly labeled (twice) 1st) they should be called "Distance improvement irons". 2nd) they're mis-stamped. A 27* lofted iron is a 5 iron not a 7 iron as stamped. They're always designed with a larger face. Easier to hit etc.
The sweet spot is the same size on every club ever built. It's the C of G of the club unit. Misshits of just 5 mm (1/4") in any direction will degrade the performance and give the player feedback. By taking this logic to the extreme, a club the size of a garden shovel should be the most forgiving. Unfortunately the physics is unbeatable and it too will have a sweet spot.
The ugly truth is: the handicap average isn't coming down. Hasn't for decades and I bet it's increasing. How could that be? Manufacturers make claims of gear that is further, longer, straighter, faster, smoother, more spin less spin etc we should all be driving par 5 500+ yard greens, stopping it 10' past the pin and spinning it back into the hole!
I'd rather have a club that gives me accurate feedback when I get it wrong. I can tell when I hit it 1 groove low, 1/4" (5 mm) toe or heel . The feeling and sound when I smash the sweet spot is unparralled. Try that with a chunky monkey club!
@@BruceBusby We won't argue with your opinion bruce, we will though need to agree to disagree on 'Blades always being the best policy'.
@@todaysgolfer I just reread my post and I sound like a bit of an ass. My apologies, I was attempting to make a point but I think I've lost the plot! Anyway, thanks for the great review. For me it's blades or blade combo set and for each golfer to choose for them. I hope people aren't afraid to try blades, there's nothing quite like them IMHO.
@@BruceBusby No offence taken Bruce, no need to apologise for having an opinion. Hope you continue to enjoy the channel.
You guys do a lot of comparison videos, but there does not seem to be any shaft comparisons in your catalogue. Either using the same shaft on different heads, or different shafts on the same head. With the "make sure to get fitted" qualification being ubiquitous in golf club review videos, some discussion of shafts might be helpful.
Thanks for the feedback Steady. We did a little comparison in our first look video's of the new TaylorMade and Callaway drivers for 2019, but granted we haven't done too much.
Will have a look at how best we can do this to be relevant to all in 2020.
Wow - talk about extensive testing!👏 Thinking about club testing/comparison is it not best to start with shots with the same(or very similar) club head speed AND strike location and then go into launch, ball speed, spin (not side as a given that fact he's a decent pro), carry, total etc? Wouldn't that be a true comparison rather than just averages? Great work BTW!👍🤔🏌🏆😵
SuperDuper Awesome Thanks for the feedback, very much appreciated. It's our intention to try and show the comparisons golfers are looking for. Forged irons is obviously a big category. The suggestion is worth some thought, but defining impact location is tricky. To get exact impact locations matches can mean looking at limited numbers of shots, it seems a bit unfair just to go for high - low and toe - heel quadrants.
To be fair, this was a really good review and you weren't actually saying one club was better than another. I have seen some comparison vlogs(not yours) and there has been big differences in strike location (up to 13 mm) and its not even referred to in comparison of the results and in a lot of cases strike is king.
Next vlog: How about getting a low and a mid hcap to hit the 'top' three in each category and see which they prefer? 👏👏👍
I didn’t think that Honma TW 747 P was forged. Can you confirm? I thought that was a cast club. 🤷🏻♂️
Very well spotted Gary. We took our information from a Honma European PR agency press release, we should have double checked.
Today's Golfer: I wasn’t trying to call you guys out. I’m very interested in Honma FORGED irons and when I saw those 747 Ps a while back (because I’m playing off 14) I thought they fit my handicap, so I looked into them and found they were cast, so I took them off my list. I appreciate the confirmation. You guys do GREAT work. Love the channel. Keep it up! (Btw, we need a slow mo of Neil’s swing and maybe a short video on his technique because it’s really good!)
@@garydavis8213 No probs Gary, appreciate the kind words. Neil is a heck of a player. He turned pro off +4, was the holder of 7 course records at the time and he won 3 times last season on the Midlands PGA circuit.
Cleveland MT588 was first hollowhead.2014, Not PXG which was founded in September 2014. ??
Michael Snakebite Understand where you're going Michael, but TaylorMade had hollow heads in the 90's with ICW5 and ICW11. We were really talking about PXG who brought hollow body tech to the forefront of club design, making it mainstream, a move which lead to TM, Titleist, Ping and Cobra jumping onboard.
I thought Macgregor had the M675 hollowbody irons back in 2005 as well.
I enjoyed this video, but I’m skeptical about how this can help anyone looking to buy new irons. One guy testing this many irons. Not only must there be some fatigue factor considered, also it’s only one type of swing that is likely much better than most people watching this. Also Skytrak was used which I understand to be much less accurate than a Trackman or the like. In my opinion, this video confuses more than helps as there are too many variables and it’s too subjective. I still enjoyed all the 27 minutes of it, but I think one ought to be careful using this to make a purchase decision.
Thanks for the feedback Stefan, completely respect you're entitled to an opinion and the point's you're making.
We'd argue through experience we've learn't having shots hit by a single quality player gives a great indication of how models actually compare . Which we feel is pretty useful when it comes to narrowing to a selection of irons you might want to try.
Hope you continue to enjoy the channel.
Im surprised that the z985 were not on your list. They are so forgiving.
We don't have a Z985 in Europe Dexter. In fact is Z985 a thing at all?
Srixon didn't submit a Z-Forged for us to include.
Yes the z forged. I couldn't think of the name.
Why is the player iron your category when the data shows u have more ball speed and carry distance drop off with those irons?? I'm confused by the results and the message you are giving?
We're not giving any message Erik, we're simply showing how all the clubs compare in terms of data.
Like a lot of good golfers Neil wouldn't choose a set of blades (as they're so unforgiving), he also doesn't need the pure distance of some of the game improver models. The size and shape of Player irons suit his eye, so he'd naturally choose what he see's as best for him.
It really grinds my gears when people try to steer someone away from blades because they don’t have a certain handicap. Ask the question on if you want to be the best ball striker you can be or are you happy with where you are an only plan on playing once in awhile. If someone only plays once in awhile and is happy where they are then cavities would be the best option. If a high handicap player wants to be the best ball striker he can be and bring a handicap to single digits.. get blades... aim small miss small
Respect your opinion Josh.
In the instant gratification world we live in, and with golfer numbers shrinking, plus the average age of golfers increasing year on year we might have to agree to disagree on this one.
Mdmchannel are you dedicated to getting better? Do you practice often? Blades will give more feedback then cavities will if you want to find the center of club face. If you strike them well then you obviously need to get your putter and short game dialed in or maybe your having a hard time getting off the tee box in play I’m not sure. My point was blades will help you get better but you have to have the want to. That’s just the way I see it
@Mdmchannel Well done you.
The Hogan ICON should be in there close to the Wilson Staff Blade
Agreed Michael, unfortunately at the time we didn't have samples to include.
Very interesting summary especially as I am retooling at irons having wrongly swapped my p760s which is probably the iron set I have liked the best including wrt feel for the pxg 0211 - the latter a little too ping like for my liking. I used to game the srixon 5 series so was looking for something with equal or better distance (not just because of lofts), less drop off and more consistency dispersion wise. Tested the usual suspects from p790 to cobra forged tec, and apex cf19s- none did it for me. I have not tried the Honma 747 p even though I have and like the t747 driver I use. Partly thinking a bit chunky but also because unfortunately the VX not made in left hand at all. Have not tried the wilsons c300 forged or new line thinking Wilson’s! I am going for a test of the pxg 0311 gen 3 line and hope that does the trick. Started Manar many moons ago with the Ben Hogan’s....any thoughts? Also being in my mid to late 60s now.
The PXG Gen3 are very special Aly, the engineering story behind them is impressive, and they look and feel fantastic. Shame on the Honma VX it sounds like they could have been right up your street. If not Srixon irons are due an update come July/August this year.
Today's Golfer Thanks. Good to know. I used to use the z565s for some time. I will see if there is somewhere I can try out the honma 747p just as a reference point and of course the pxgs soon. Mistake I made with my 0211 is going the iron shaft route switching out of graphite and as a result lost 10 yds on every club - oh what age does to one!
Still nothing can compare to the Mizuno MP-32's. Even a used set today will give all these irons a run for their money. They are the still benchmark for forged irons.
There are 2 stand outs from the test for me (1) just how pretty so many of the clubs look, even at the super game improver category, that deserves compliments for the manufacturers (2) what a lot of forged clubs are available for just about every type of player.
I have tried a number of the clubs in the test. P790s were so easy to hit, went far and felt nice, JPX919 Tours were amazing feel, surprisingly easy to hit but the 5i was so small to be seriously scary. Then there were the 919 Forged, almost as nice as the Tours, the straightest hitting club I have ever tried but to my slightly too long from heel to toe and for me slightly under performed in back spin (i210s whilst cast were as good a feeling club but definitely looked better and performed better for me). The clubs I would love to try are the MP20-MMC, IMO a much better looking club than the MP18-MMC
Justin Stephenson Thanks for the feedback Justin, Mizuno would probably agree the MP-20 MMC are a good sized step forward over the MP-18 MMC.
Isn't Honma TW747P a cast iron?
We cover this in a question below Yuri. Thanks.
I don't get why people are so afraid of blades. I've only used blades since learning the game in my 50's. I think they make you a better golfer and give you more feedback so you can learn. I outplay most of the people I play with who played their whole life and use cavity-back and game-improvement irons.
Glad to hear they work for you Leonard.