Thanks for all the information. I'm building a 351W also. It's a build that I haven't started it but I'm gathering information. The motor is a 4bbl block bolted to a top loader on a pallet covered up securely. Don't know what year yet. I need to clear up my schedule first before getting into this project. Meanwhile, I'm gathering all this good information about the 351W. Thanks, Pupuli Joe here
The 351 was developed into a work truck engine. Being accustomed to handling all the things that make up a job vehicle, last every day, is like an art. There are f250s running with so many miles on it that the pistons should have swapped holes. I personally know of one owned by a large construction company that has worn out a truck load of tires and four transmissions. It’s kinda like Ford built an engine out of an anvil.
I absolutely love the 351w there strong and durable.add a little ring gap put a turbo on it and make 630 wheel or about 720 crank and have a ball thanks for watching my channel
It all depends on how much power you plan to make without reinforcing the block. Both blocks can be made to handle a max of 1000hp with a good tune. But by the time you put the money needed to do that your spending close to a Ford Performance Boss block that's good for 1500hp. Enjoy following the progress! Keep the videos coming!😁👍🏁
With the 351w block 1000 is possible the factory 302 block I would be very skeptical I have personally seen one split at 641crank good tune on nitrous ..it's not pretty 😂
@@dertmatyui I would love to see a Dyno sheet for a stock block 302 making 1000 HP I'm not saying it can't be done but it won't last very long at that power level maybe one pull
It is generally accepted in the SBF community that the stock 302 blocks shouldn't see more than 500fwhp if you're wanting any sort of longevity out of them... If 1000hp was routine, there would be no market for aftermarket blocks. Period.
There are reasons the low deck Windsor has issues with high HP--one, they were made to be 221 cid economy car engines, and typically won't want to get bored past .040 over (some will go .060 over, and may just be the unicorns people see handling more than 500 bhp). Two, Ford changed the crank weight, which is why you have two different flywheel weights. Three, there's two different firing orders--the non HO setup fires the first two cylinders concurrently while the HO has the 351W's firing order. Crank a blower belt down tight to the front of the crankshaft while using an early cam design firing the cylinders nearest to the front of the crank location.... Can a stock low deck block (non Boss 302, which came from the factory with screw in core plugs, and interestingly enough, the K code Challenger 289 had thicker main web caps) go past 500 bhp reliably? David Vizard believes so: ruclips.net/video/c71ClII1NsQ/видео.html As for the idea the tall deck Windsor will have longer connecting rods, there's a lot of theory about long versus short rods, and how each affects piston speed and how that helps and hurts filling the cylinder on the intake cycle, and empties the exhaust at the exhaust cycle (which helps filling the cylinder without a supercharger or turbo)
I only see three reasons to use an 8.2 vs 9.5 block, outside of block availability, or displacement or weight limitation, or stock/numbers matching cars situations: 1- fitment... Tight engine compartment for headers hood clutch etc etc 2- availability... No stock/aftermarket parts for the 9.5 dropped into certain application where 8.2 parts are available 3- fuel economy... in a daily driver or road trip vehicle, an engine with more cubes, all else being equal, will consume more fuel. It's a larger air pump. All those reasons aside, the 9.5 blocks are a better foundation.
I agree with You the 351 is a better foundation for a build than the 302 even with a stoker it's still smaller than the stock bore & stroke 351 , sure You need to use a set of 351 swap headers and oil pan also a 351 style distributor it's normally cheaper than a good stroker kit for the 302 plus the machine shop work that is required . Great content Thank You . 🇺🇸🇵🇷🦊👍
@@brawler3475.0 Personally I like a good NA build because they are easier on parts and can make extremely good torque and horsepower which is what is needed for a good street engine . 🇺🇸🇵🇷🦊👍
@@ferdinandcuevas8457 I was always a nitrous person until nitrous around where I live because to expensive or unavailable.then I got into turbo charging and never looked back ..it's also easier on parts
@@brawler3475.0 That is if You have the proper tune and can maintain it properly . I know it all comes with experience . Plus it gives You satisfaction when You can beat someone that is using a power adder ! 🇺🇸🇵🇷🦊👍
@@brawler3475.0 ive ben running that pan since about 97 … if i steer you wrong it deffinately wont be on purpose … and ive done this myself so its not hearsay !!!
@@brawler3475.0 i just spent time looking it up to see what all fits .. 1988 ford f150 4wd 5.8 engine all the way up to 94 maybe even up to 97 .. the full size broncos have the same oil pans as long as it has the 5.8 in it …. Thats the oul pans ive used feom the junk yard ….. The part number for autozone is FP07A … that is the rear sump oil pan you need … the pic they have up now dont show it having 2 drain plugs in the pan just the rear drain plug … however that may be a good thing if you still have your front sway bar because my first oil pan and my sway bar touched each other and knocked my drain plug out and ruined the threads … thats common when putting a 351w in a foxbody .. if its a street strip car you will want to remove the sway bar anyway so the front end will lift during a launch and plant the back tires ..i learned all this back in 95 when i first put a 351w in a foxbody … i was 22 years old ad i found out everything usually the hard way … if you keep your front sway bar you will need to lower it n give some extra clearence
Far better rod stroke ratio, far better connecting rods, bigger head bolts, higher deck for stroker applications bolts right in were the 302 does. Now. The crank is a little heavy, but we turned a stock Windsor 6800! The only reason to build a 302 is a 357w won't fit! Been there, done that!
I agree with you 100% the 351w in my opinion is far superior to the 302 base engine especially in overall strength and durability .. thank you for watching my channel and commenting
E had some almost 80 degree weather in Febuary here in east Tn … we went fishing today and i got hot n started sweating … i hope warm weather finds way to where your at very soon brother …. I just hope it dont get 100 degreese with a 100% humidity on ya .. thats like being in a sonna .. all the time !!! Nobody likes that !!! Lol😊
Ive told all my buddies dont bother with a 347 when a 351w bolts in place its just a little bigger. My 408w is in a 95 f-150 prerunner, however I know what a tight fit is. I motor swapped my 96 gt with a mark VIII 32v thats way tighter then a 351w swap
Funny how Ford call the 4.6 and 5.4 are modular engine. Just about the same type parts are interchangeable between the 302 and 351w. The 5.4 has a bit taller deck just like the 351w. Lol. I love the 351w. If you just change the cam you can gain quite a bit more HP's.
The pistons where installed backwards but not the rods it's an old round track trick to change rod angle to make the engine think it has longer rods and it works.im not saying every engine should have its pistons installed this way but it does work.look up Joe Sherman engines it will tell all
have built 289 302 and 351 and the 351 is better power torque and even gas mileage you can use a factory crown vic pan to fit a fox body also not all 302s are 50 ox balance the early 351 heads have bigger ports and valves 32 hp over 77 and newer 351 /302 heads
I will probably never go back to a 302 base engine the 351w gives me a little peace of mind and a lot more power potential. I have a set of 1969 351w heads that I ran for a while then I got a set of TFS high ports with 225 cc intake runner's and well that's a whole different story thanks for watching my channel 👍
@@crimzonzero8890 I'm probably going to be getting a 7 qt pan from ProForm it's only 165 $ but I appreciate the info I might change into it if it's cheaper
@@brawler3475.0 I have had all three and Cleveland is King , but the Windsor is no slouch and for my style of running, I have put 330k on my 89 Ford Windsor and she is still firing up and going to work 3 days a week. LOL, I will make sure to get it too get it rolling soon. God bless you and your family this evening!
Thanks for all the information. I'm building a 351W also. It's a build that I haven't started it but I'm gathering information. The motor is a 4bbl block bolted to a top loader on a pallet covered up securely. Don't know what year yet. I need to clear up my schedule first before getting into this project. Meanwhile, I'm gathering all this good information about the 351W. Thanks, Pupuli Joe here
If you have any questions I'll answer them best I can thank you so much for watching my channel 👍
The 351 was developed into a work truck engine. Being accustomed to handling all the things that make up a job vehicle, last every day, is like an art. There are f250s running with so many miles on it that the pistons should have swapped holes. I personally know of one owned by a large construction company that has worn out a truck load of tires and four transmissions. It’s kinda like Ford built an engine out of an anvil.
I absolutely love the 351w there strong and durable.add a little ring gap put a turbo on it and make 630 wheel or about 720 crank and have a ball thanks for watching my channel
Great video!!!! I agree..... 351 just takes a little extra time to chase down parts
I'm having a very hard time finding an exhaust valve for the heads I have and it's getting frustrating
It all depends on how much power you plan to make without reinforcing the block. Both blocks can be made to handle a max of 1000hp with a good tune. But by the time you put the money needed to do that your spending close to a Ford Performance Boss block that's good for 1500hp. Enjoy following the progress! Keep the videos coming!😁👍🏁
With the 351w block 1000 is possible the factory 302 block I would be very skeptical I have personally seen one split at 641crank good tune on nitrous ..it's not pretty 😂
@@brawler3475.0 people make 1000 all day with stock block 302
@@dertmatyui I would love to see a Dyno sheet for a stock block 302 making 1000 HP I'm not saying it can't be done but it won't last very long at that power level maybe one pull
It is generally accepted in the SBF community that the stock 302 blocks shouldn't see more than 500fwhp if you're wanting any sort of longevity out of them... If 1000hp was routine, there would be no market for aftermarket blocks. Period.
@@richdouche8253 100% agreed thank you .. thanks for watching my channel 👍
There are reasons the low deck Windsor has issues with high HP--one, they were made to be 221 cid economy car engines, and typically won't want to get bored past .040 over (some will go .060 over, and may just be the unicorns people see handling more than 500 bhp). Two, Ford changed the crank weight, which is why you have two different flywheel weights. Three, there's two different firing orders--the non HO setup fires the first two cylinders concurrently while the HO has the 351W's firing order. Crank a blower belt down tight to the front of the crankshaft while using an early cam design firing the cylinders nearest to the front of the crank location....
Can a stock low deck block (non Boss 302, which came from the factory with screw in core plugs, and interestingly enough, the K code Challenger 289 had thicker main web caps) go past 500 bhp reliably? David Vizard believes so:
ruclips.net/video/c71ClII1NsQ/видео.html
As for the idea the tall deck Windsor will have longer connecting rods, there's a lot of theory about long versus short rods, and how each affects piston speed and how that helps and hurts filling the cylinder on the intake cycle, and empties the exhaust at the exhaust cycle (which helps filling the cylinder without a supercharger or turbo)
That my friend is a lot of good information thank you
I only see three reasons to use an 8.2 vs 9.5 block, outside of block availability, or displacement or weight limitation, or stock/numbers matching cars situations:
1- fitment... Tight engine compartment for headers hood clutch etc etc
2- availability... No stock/aftermarket parts for the 9.5 dropped into certain application where 8.2 parts are available
3- fuel economy... in a daily driver or road trip vehicle, an engine with more cubes, all else being equal, will consume more fuel. It's a larger air pump.
All those reasons aside, the 9.5 blocks are a better foundation.
One of the reasons I'm using a 9.5 is strength and the longer rods thanks so much for watching my channel
I agree with You the 351 is a better foundation for a build than the 302 even with a stoker it's still smaller than the stock bore & stroke 351 , sure You need to use a set of 351 swap headers and oil pan also a 351 style distributor it's normally cheaper than a good stroker kit for the 302 plus the machine shop work that is required . Great content Thank You . 🇺🇸🇵🇷🦊👍
Thank you so much for watching my channel it's greatly appreciated nothing beats cubic inches..well maybe more boost 😁😁
@@brawler3475.0 Personally I like a good NA build because they are easier on parts and can make extremely good torque and horsepower which is what is needed for a good street engine . 🇺🇸🇵🇷🦊👍
@@ferdinandcuevas8457 I was always a nitrous person until nitrous around where I live because to expensive or unavailable.then I got into turbo charging and never looked back ..it's also easier on parts
@@brawler3475.0 That is if You have the proper tune and can maintain it properly . I know it all comes with experience . Plus it gives You satisfaction when You can beat someone that is using a power adder ! 🇺🇸🇵🇷🦊👍
@@ferdinandcuevas8457 so far so good I think I found the right tune for the power I'm at now thanks for watching my channel 👍
Good video ty
It would be awesome if everyone that watches the videos would subscribe thank you for watching my channel
I have bought a oil pan for a 80’s/90’s ford 4wd truck that came with a 351w and it worked perfct .
I will definitely check into that I don't really want to spend a lot of money on a pan thank you for the advice and watching my channel
@@brawler3475.0 ive ben running that pan since about 97 … if i steer you wrong it deffinately wont be on purpose … and ive done this myself so its not hearsay !!!
@@glennramsey917 do you know the year make and model??
@@brawler3475.0 i just spent time looking it up to see what all fits .. 1988 ford f150 4wd 5.8 engine all the way up to 94 maybe even up to 97 .. the full size broncos have the same oil pans as long as it has the 5.8 in it …. Thats the oul pans ive used feom the junk yard …..
The part number for autozone is FP07A … that is the rear sump oil pan you need … the pic they have up now dont show it having 2 drain plugs in the pan just the rear drain plug … however that may be a good thing if you still have your front sway bar because my first oil pan and my sway bar touched each other and knocked my drain plug out and ruined the threads … thats common when putting a 351w in a foxbody .. if its a street strip car you will want to remove the sway bar anyway so the front end will lift during a launch and plant the back tires ..i learned all this back in 95 when i first put a 351w in a foxbody … i was 22 years old ad i found out everything usually the hard way … if you keep your front sway bar you will need to lower it n give some extra clearence
Far better rod stroke ratio, far better connecting rods, bigger head bolts, higher deck for stroker applications bolts right in were the 302 does. Now. The crank is a little heavy, but we turned a stock Windsor 6800! The only reason to build a 302 is a 357w won't fit! Been there, done that!
I agree with you 100% the 351w in my opinion is far superior to the 302 base engine especially in overall strength and durability .. thank you for watching my channel and commenting
@brawler3475.0 just like another subject, bigger is almost always better!
E had some almost 80 degree weather in Febuary here in east Tn … we went fishing today and i got hot n started sweating … i hope warm weather finds way to where your at very soon brother …. I just hope it dont get 100 degreese with a 100% humidity on ya .. thats like being in a sonna .. all the time !!! Nobody likes that !!! Lol😊
I actually like hot weather I'm originally from Alabama..I can't wait for hot weather
Hey there... wondering what cam is in that 302. So you remember?
Enjoying the vids- keep it up😊
It had a TFS stage 3 cam spec are 236 248 575 595 110lsa thank you so much for watching my channel
I would take the short deck or long deck Windsor all day. I love the Windsor engine.
I'm never going back to the 8.2 deck sbf Windsor for life
Ive told all my buddies dont bother with a 347 when a 351w bolts in place its just a little bigger. My 408w is in a 95 f-150 prerunner, however I know what a tight fit is. I motor swapped my 96 gt with a mark VIII 32v thats way tighter then a 351w swap
I appreciate you watching my channel and I will never go back to a 302 based engine again 👍👍I bet that 32 valve was really tight
The 351w can use decent length rods compared to the 302/289. So that gives you a better rod length to stroke ratio. 😊
I've ran a long rod 5.400 in a 347 and it didn't last long I switched to a 351w and will never look back
Funny how Ford call the 4.6 and 5.4 are modular engine. Just about the same type parts are interchangeable between the 302 and 351w. The 5.4 has a bit taller deck just like the 351w. Lol. I love the 351w. If you just change the cam you can gain quite a bit more HP's.
A agree 💯 present I put a TFS stage 3 cam in mine 238 249 575 595 it's a really good cam
The holes on the top of the 302 pistons go toward the front of the eng. not the rear .
The pistons where installed backwards but not the rods it's an old round track trick to change rod angle to make the engine think it has longer rods and it works.im not saying every engine should have its pistons installed this way but it does work.look up Joe Sherman engines it will tell all
Uncle Tony's Garage went into this as well, got support from David Vizard while the roadkill crew deny it
Scrap the rubber bushings, put solids and u won't need quad shocks cause it won't b able to shake when u launch hard, just a opinion
I'm trying to find someone to make solid aluminum bushings for me thanks for watching my channel it's greatly appreciated as well as your opinion
Only v8 i ever blew up was a clevo but it was 600hp
I've blown up a 302 a 400 sbc a 427 BBC
Great video as always
"It's no mystery novel."
Meaning??
Good job fellow
have built 289 302 and 351 and the 351 is better power torque and even gas mileage you can use a factory crown vic pan to fit a fox body also not all 302s are 50 ox balance the early 351 heads have bigger ports and valves 32 hp over 77 and newer 351 /302 heads
I will probably never go back to a 302 base engine the 351w gives me a little peace of mind and a lot more power potential. I have a set of 1969 351w heads that I ran for a while then I got a set of TFS high ports with 225 cc intake runner's and well that's a whole different story thanks for watching my channel 👍
have used the twisted wedge in a low compression motor 351 12,6 at 109mph in a 3550 lb car @@brawler3475.0
You can run a crown vic 5.8 oil pan, when swapping into a foxbody. But it's still a 5 qt pan
I'll check out the local salvage yard to see if one is available thanks for watching my channel 👍
@@brawler3475.0 I bought mine new from autozone
@@crimzonzero8890 I'm probably going to be getting a 7 qt pan from ProForm it's only 165 $ but I appreciate the info I might change into it if it's cheaper
I’m building a 351 and love it
Build it brother and never look back👍👍
I just had a thought .. has anybody ever drilled out the head bolt holes to 1/2 in ???? I wonder how uch better (if any ) that would be ???
I believe that is a common modification on Ford small blocks
@@brawler3475.0 yea it is !!!
Card board creepers rock!
I totally agree 💯 percent thanks for watching my channel 👍
351w all day
I don't think I'll ever go back to a 302 based engine the only thing it's got going for it is a small size appreciate you watching
I love both motors . 302 builds under 450 horsepower. 351 windsor for a 408
Hoping to get around 750 to 800 reliably thank you for watching my channel it's greatly appreciated
I love the Windsor engines as well. They are fairly easy to build, make great power and they last if you build them right.
What is the weight difference?
About 79 to 80 lbs
Superior to what? A VW Type 122? Like the blue timing chain though!
🤭😂😂
My heads the paperwork has same torque specs as 302-351, obviously no substitute for cubes, but the fitment sucks
My head gasket says 85 to 100 foot lbs for the 351w and 70 on bottom row and 80 on the top row on a 302 👍
Why build a 347 when youncan build a 393?
No more 347 working on a 408 never going to use 8.2 deck blocks again the 9.5 have a lot of benefits the smaller block doesn't
Ya, and you could say the same thing about why a 460 is better than a 351. In reality, it's all about packaging.
You can get a sbf with 460 cubic inches and yes it's about packing and weight
@@brawler3475.0 you can get a bbf over 600ci...
Did you ever get your piston rings
Yes a subscriber donated to the channel 👍
Windsor
All ways from now on 👍👍
@@brawler3475.0 I have had all three and Cleveland is King , but the Windsor is no slouch and for my style of running, I have put 330k on my 89 Ford Windsor and she is still firing up and going to work 3 days a week. LOL, I will make sure to get it too get it rolling soon. God bless you and your family this evening!
the 351 Cleveland is more superior
Heads yes not the block
The throaty growl form my 70’s 4lb head Cleveland disagrees with you.
If you have driven a Cleveland lately,
I highly recommend it.
What's a 4 Pound Cleveland head 🤭🤭