Anecdotally, I graduated college with a 3.98 GPA but had a low MCAT score due to working full-time (and then some) for family reasons, so I was only accepted into DO programs. I'm now a dermatology resident at a top 10 academic center. I understand that you went to the Caribbean, but to profess that the route you took is anything but risky is just plain misinformation. I see that you're touting the 93% placement rate, but I implore ANYONE WHO IS READING THIS COMMENT AND THINKING ABOUT GOING TO THE CARRIBEAN FOR MEDICAL SCHOOL to do a merely a half-hour of research into their terrible attraction rates, sub-par clinical education, manipulation of placement (which does not equal MATCH) statistics and how these primarily predatory programs only supply a portion of their class with the support that they need - the rest drown. Not every student is going to place in the 95+ percentile on STEP 1, 2 CK and CS, or have a family member that is a preceptor for a residency program and get lucky finding a job after school. Going Carribean should be the LAST possible route to become a doctor in the United States.
Hi, I am glad I read your comment. I am not planning to go to the Caribbean for medicine but I am seriously considering D.O. I am aware that you probably don't have time but maybe you can give me brief answer. I wanted to ask about the chances of getting into an anesthesiology residency program for D.O.s
@@salahalsiqami6589 your chances of getting into anesthesia from a DO program are fine. Anesthesia is an averagely competitive specialty. Many, many DO's match into anesthesia every year. Ortho, optho, urology, and derm (and the quick route for plastics) are the only specialties that you will have to work a little harder to place into as a DO. With that being said, I watched a number of students in the class above me at my school (DO) match into urology and optho just this morning in the match. I saw plenty of people from my school last year match into ortho and derm as well and anticipate that a number of students will match into these competitive residencies again this year. In this video this man states that patients will ask you what a DO is... but the reality is 99% of patients can't even tell you if their doctors are DO's or MD's anymore. Most people cannot even tell you if their colleagues are DO's or MD's with certainty off the top of their head. What your patients will care about if the quality of the care you provide for them and if they feel hear, accepted, and safe in the space you create for them. I wish you so much luck in your journey! I know that MD or DO you will have no trouble going into anesthesia if you work for it and out forth the effort.
My family practice physician back home was great, and I didn't realize that he was a D.O. until I took a careful look at his sign outside. Most people hear "Doctor" and that's good enough for them.
Joshua McGough I think he is factoring in that not everyone wants to spend 4 years(post bacc/smp + glide year)for the “opportunity” to go to med school. His route definitely knocked off 2-3 unnecessary years. As a non trad, if I can save a year, why not?
Comoelita Melendez Nah, that's not how it works. He is not in the majority of folks who either don't match or fail out of carib schools. In that case, they're out hundreds of thousands of dollars with no job. In either case, most people should be willing to take one or maybe two extra years to go DO instead of carib. Let the ego die. Explaining what a DO is isn't as bad as having an MD with no financial security.
I certainly won't argue, but I'll say this: I received a scholarship to attend DO school. I interviewed at multiple top 10 programs in my specialty. I did my residency at the (then) # 1 hospital in America and have been an attending physician in both academic medicine and private practice. I've never had to explain my credentials.
I’m at an MD school, but I sometimes wish I got to learn some MSK OMM techniques. I feel like some of that can be useful for sports medicine/primary care.
Rich 91 It’s just a reflection. Also, the top 1% make ~$500k+/yr, which is a lot more than the majority of physicians make (double what some specialties make, actually). There are many better and easier ways to reach a top 1% income tier.
There are some ACGME residency programs that are adapting MSK OMM techniques as part of their curriculum. I think it 's only FM so far, but they want to train their residents on reducing/managing pain as well as decreasing dependence on opioids. Sounds like it fits what you're looking for.
I highly disagree with this I’m sorry. Osteopathic schools train their students very well and as an osteopathic medical student there is no discrepancy and no reason to not go to an osteopathic school over allopathic. Many people me included enjoy the ethics of osteopathic. Just because people don’t know exactly what a DO is they should make it their responsibility to learn.
Lmao if you’re claiming there is no reason to choose Osteopathic over allopathic US schools, then you should absolutely have no problem with this video because that is just blatantly wrong. No one chooses Osteopathic over allopathic unless there are extenuating circumstances (location, family, chronic illness, etc)
Bob Dole Lol so you're saying there are no gunners in osteopathic schools? And you're implying that all allopathic students are gunners? Absolutely wrong. I can guarantee you, if all DO students could switch to MD they would. They did in California back in the day with UC Irvine, and if given the option, they would today as well. I'm not saying no one believes in OMM. There are several DOs in Europe that practice exclusively OMM and lots of physicians that also believe in some OMM principles (both MD and DO). But what I'm saying is, if a student was accepted to a DO school and a USMD school, they would guaranteed take the MD. And if you're trying to say otherwise, you're just lying to yourself.
jojokiri Are you impaired in the normal abilities of reading comprehension? When did I suggest there were not gunners in DO schools? I said that not everyone attending a DO school was a gunner. These two ideas can be mutually exclusive. Some attend DO school for the philosophy or to crack backs and not to go to a competitive speciality. Best of luck with CARS and the MCAT.
You had some good points in terms of the uphill battle for DO's when talking to a general layman. But in terms of which to choose I think you may have been biased based on the fact that you successfully came out of a Caribbean school, and are here to tell the story. (I have however heard of the counter argument many times from not only friends who went to the Caribbean, but family including my first cousin and brother in law). But you didn't describe how getting into a DO school isn't a walk in the park (even though easier than US MD). When I was graduating from undergrad my friends and I all applied to DO and MD schools. Surprisingly (to us back then at least) many of my friends that didn't get into MD schools didn't get into DO schools either. Those friends who didn't get into either went to the Caribbean (St. George mostly). You are right though, as those who got into US MD went there, but those who got into DO (including me) happily went there and were very grateful. Once I started DO school I was told the average GPA for our class was a 3.7 in undergrad, and MCAT being a 505... lower than a typical MD school, however, the experience in our class is eminence. DO schools tend to target untypical applicants, as many of my peers are pharmacists, nurses, PA's who wanted to enter the medical field. And in terms of residencies, every year, my school has had the majority, about 60% of it's students go into either family medicine or Internal medicine; but also get multiple students to gain ortho/plastics/rad/gen surg residencies every year. We have also had a 99% match rate, but at the same time I've been told by our very own clinical dean that it is more difficult to get into more competitive residencies. That partially being because historically DO's that go after those programs have only taken COMLEX-1 as opposed to STEP 1. HOWEVER our school is now requiring every student to take STEP 1 due to the AOA (Osteopathic accrediting body) and ACGME (Allopathic accrediting body) merger. Bottomline, from my experience, being in an Osteopathic medical school is something i'm very happy with, and not considering a DO school before a Caribbean school would be ill-advised, from MY perspective.
So, I understand the thought process behind your argument, but I would personally say someone should take a DO spot over any Carribean spot. I am a DO student and take the same classes/rigor as any MD school, and the main difference between DO and Caribbean is that I know I have a much better chance of obtaining a residency in more fields than a Caribbean student. Most international medical graduates (IMG) have a hard time getting into a US residency, and those that do have to have much higher board scores than US-trained medical students. As a DO, I can overcome most "barriers" or stigmas against osteopathic medical school by taking the MD boards (USMLE); as long as I do well on that exam and/or the DO boards (Comlex), I should be every bit as competitive an MD candidate for most residencies. Of course I admit that it will be harder for me than an MD medical student, but still it's much easier than an IMG. Having said that, I would have totally attended an MD school, but I choose to attend a DO school because I got in on my first try and because there was no guarantee I would gain acceptance to an MD school. I would rather take an acceptance with a little bit more obstacles on my first try than HOPE to gain an acceptance on future application cycles. Further, I am really enjoying learning manipulative medicine, and really I just see it as an additional tool in my "tool" belt that I can use to heal later on.
So proud I chose a reputable DO school over 2 low-tier US MD schools! OMM is honestly so interesting and applicable in so many ways, and I love it so much . Also...DO schools are getting harder to get into, and are increasingly matching more people into competitive specialities. My school has a 2% acceptance rate with an average 3.7 GPA, 506 MCAT, and matched several into ophthalmology, ortho, radiology/ rad onc, anesthesiology, general surgery, plastics etc. And the average step 1 for that class (who took in addition to comlex) was above average at a 235. So the DO profession is definitely changing! Should be interesting what the residency merger entails in 2020-beyond
Kevin Daley doesn’t work for everyone lol. Yesterday I literally fixed a classmates hypertonic muscles in his lumbar and cervical regions and increased range of motion dramatically, as well as significantly decreased his pain and tenderness. Whereas the same thing worked for me in the cervical region, but did nothing in the lumbar region. So I’ve definitely seen things not work/work for others! But that’s literally with every treatment for anything
@@drbuckparker To be fair, sometimes the DO bias does outweigh IMG bias, depending on the institution and the specialty. But I'm just relaying what I've heard from students, residents, fellows, and attendings that participate in the match.
I understand thats what you've heard, that's why I made this video.....cause I tell you guys the no bullshit story. The truth is that there are not as many residency options and most DOs fucking hate they have a stigma. Do IMGs have a stigma? Yes, they also do, but it fades, and the DO stigma does not. I have nothing against DOs in fact a work with a ton and they are just the same as any doc, but the fact remains they hate that there is a difference. That's all I'm trying to say.
I understand, but it sounded like you recommended going to the Caribbean over DO just because of that reason. The match data over the last four years shows a match rate of no greater than 57% for a US IMG. Those are horrendous odds. Furthermore, that doesn't even include the applicants that didn't even receive any interviews, which is staggeringly high.
Fuck yes I do recommend it over the DO. It's my opinion and you guys can take it for whatever you want. But it's my opinion after spending the last 19 years in this system and seeing and speaking to thousands of students and doctors. But WTF do I know! LOL
Updated after the first Single-GME Match (2020): 91% match for all US DO seniors. About 97% with SOAP. Most went into pediatrics, anesthesiology, etc. Orthopedic surgery toppled along with Ophthalmology by hundreds. Only about 650 DOs remain unmatched. 1.2K US MDs remain unmatched. 2K+ IMGs remain unmatched. 60% match, a bulk of which are prelims. I visited St. George’s website for checking their match list. Bulk went into primary care. 95% of their surgical match were prelim. Not even 5 people could manage a categorical surgical match (duh). Do not disarray/ misinform the kids into somewhere b/c of a childish argument (oh it’s different than the letters MD so you’ll be disrespected; after so many years of practice, if this is your argumentation skills... oh nvm. You never really were a bright student when they taught these in school, so you remain a lay when it comes to these intellectual stuff). The stats speak for themselves. DO over a Caribbean MD any days. People nowadays also chose DO if they align with their philosophy b/c at the end that stigma and discrimination, although slightly there, is overall gone. The near perfect match rate speaks. Name any highly specialized specialty-DOs will match more than your IMGs. Your friend is a person, not the entire school.
Some of us are dumb and only applied to DO schools because we thought the philosophy was more appealing. In retrospect, I’m planning on going into a surgical subspecialty and regret everything
As a patient myself I don’t even go asking if a person ya DO or MD for me my priority is that the doctor takes the time to explain my condition and the repercussions. I have got into MD offices that the doctor barely look at me neither listen to me but then I been treated with PA’s and D.O’s and they have treated me as a human. St the end of the day this DO MD 💩 doesn’t make any difference for the patient as long you can damn fix my health issue.
Roy_Thousand damn bro, that’s some scarily stupid argument you have there. DO’s literally go through the same coursework as MD’s lmao. If you want to get technical they actually do more work with the OMM training. Literally not comparable to non-physician “Doctors” like what you’ve listed. But yeah bro you’re not being ignorant or biased at all ahahahaha
Gonna have to disagree with you here. The match rates are far too low in Caribbean med schools compared to DO schools. I'd rather have a 95+% chance to explain what my DO degree means to a patient as a doctor than risk a 30-40% chance of not matching at all and being strapped with 400k in debt while jobless. Is it possible to succeed in Caribbean schools? Of course. But anyone who has the grit to kill it in Caribbean school could probably also kill it in a one-year post-bacc program and then get into an American DO/MD school, which has a higher career ceiling on average and a substantially lower risk of not matching. If you finish at the bottom of your class in a DO school, you're still going to become a doctor. If you finish at the bottom of your class in a Caribbean school, I'd wish you the best of luck. Don't forget that Caribbean med students are IMGs even if they have American citizenship and your connections (on average) to American institutions are also far weaker than any mainland American school. Reddit thread below explains the numbers in much more detail: www.reddit.com/r/premed/comments/64zzt7/official_rpremed_warning_to_not_attend_an/ I'm not in DO school or Caribbean school so I don't really have any stake in this. Just don't want people to make a potential $400k mistake.
One year post-bacc guarantees you absolutely nothing. The caribbean rates are low cause you are including all the bullshit little schools which I HIGHLY discourage. You go to the right school and you can get any residency you want. I personally know a Pediatric Neuro-Anesthesiologist from a Caribbean school. SHE didn't take no shit from anyone and just kicked ass.
Buck Parker, M.D. Thank you for the response! I don't doubt that one can succeed in a Caribbean med school. I have professors at my school who went the Caribbean route and some of the best resources I've found online have been written by Caribbean MD students. I personally had to grind my way to med school just like you so I believe that anything is possible if you work hard and work smart. I also agree with you that post-bacc programs don't guarantee anything but neither does a Caribbean school. It is not a black and white decision by any means but it is highly critical that applicants consider their options in totality prior to making arguably one of the biggest and most consequential decisions in their life. My opinion is that if you are 100% confident in your academic abilities and work ethic, it probably doesn't matter what you choose to do. However, the consequences of not achieving your goals in a DO school are minimal compared to those in a Caribbean school (e.g. 198 Step 1 score in DO school = low-tier residency, might have to scramble if you apply stupidly; 198 step 1 score in Caribbean = jobless with $400k in debt since you passed step 1 and can't retake but have nowhere near the score you need to match as an IMG). That's a HUGE, life-changing risk. Some people just aren't cut out for med school (and that's OK!) and face outside pressures to become a doctor (NOT ok). I imagine many of these students end up in the Caribbean, especially the bullshit little schools you're talking about.
Tbh, the so-called DO "stigma" is starting to disappear now. The Residency/Fellowship training is more important than the school you chose. As long as you crush your STEPs and put in effort, you're good. The main downside I can think of is that many DO students write both the COMLEX and USMLE.
Crazy you put up this video today, I was just accepted to a DO school this week. I'm an Army officer so I don't have a choice to go IMG. You do raise some interesting points though, I would say without a doubt if you smash step 1... you're going to be just fine no matter where you go.
Seriously, im telling you. Don't listen to him. Go DO rather than go IMG Caribbean. and DONT let go of a DO acceptance to get another chance at any MD the next year. ANY US acceptance is better than IMG MD.
I have no idea what everyone is on. I can feel the stigma everyone has against DO's, honestly, there is absolutely 0 difference between the two, I hate when people act like DO's are just for people that couldn't get into a MD school. The argument that DO's cant get into any competitive residency is ridiculous, it's the person and how they perform what determines, plus they are combining MD and DO residency next year. Just be glad you get into any med school md or do, and stop complaining and live your life lol.
There is no difference between the two when you're out in practice, especially in a private practice/employed model, but I've heard over and over again that ACGME residencies don't take DOs as faculty. The good thing is that at least 80% of DOs don't go into academia, so it doesn't really matter. Furthermore, there is a difference as a student. There is less access to good research (on average), which makes it harder to become a more competitive applicant. No one has said that you can't make it into the top residencies as a DO. It happens all the time. The point is that it's significantly harder, due to the DO bias. This is undeniable. Also, DOs gunning for the top specialties are already feeling the pressure because former protected AOA spots (in ortho for example) are already going to MDs. They are opening it up to MDs. That alone is cause for concern because of the increase in competition. Now for most DOs, it's a net positive because the DO bias isn't as strong in the noncompetitive specialties; they actually have more spots to choose from now.
Also, to be honest, the majority of people chose MD first. We all know that. DO is the second choice for the majority of applicants. DO schools themselves know it. It's not a big deal. What matters is that they get to become a doctor at the end of the day.
There is absolutely a difference between the two. Medicine is very elitist. MDs have an easier time going into academic programs which is considered “top tier.” They do research, act as professors, etc. That’s not to say DOs can’t do it, because they absolutely can, but it’s significantly harder to do with a DO behind your name vs an MD. There are several residency programs that do not accept DO applicants. For those of you that don’t know, you can actually see the percentages of DOs in a residency program, just google FREIDA and use that tool. Now if you’re talking about just two doctors practicing in some clinic, you’re right there’s absolutely no difference. But more prestige comes with being an MD in almost any setting.
@@jojokiri Exactly. I've seen multiple times that PDs will literally throw all DO apps in the garbage (filtering them on ERAS) almost without exception. The only ones that seem to make it through are people that killed away rotations or that have a personal connection to someone high up that's willing to go to bat for them. They will do this is in the surgical subs (plus derm, rad onc, and IR) and at the most prestigious academic institutions in all the other specialties. The only other way to get in to the most competitive specialties is by focusing on the AOA (now former) programs.
From my point of view DOs and MDs are 100% equal degrees, and neither type of doctor can be differentiated just from their degrees. True DOs tend to have an undergraduate gpa that's slightly lower, but it's absolutely ridiculous to judge a doctor based on their undergraduate studies. Just think about it, "this doctor got a C in Organic Chemistry, so I don't think he should be the one treating my cancer." Lol. It's funny and sad at the same time.
Love your videos man and love your style! . Im one of those people who went to a DO school and didnt bother applying to MD schools. I don't really think theres any stigma after residency now vs 20 years ago when you went through the process except maybe in surgical specialties. Again thats my n=1 experience. I am currently at an ACGME emergency medicine program with 70% DO residents. I think the Osteopathic school you go to is important as well. I obviously have bias for where i went (DO school in philly), but certain DO schools are more established and have a much wider residency network with graduates from those schools. I would say look at match results in recent years for certain DO schools and take that in perspective that you will have higher success overall matching in a residency you want vs IMG. For people applying to med school, i think its important to realize its all about getting into "that residency" you want. After you get that residency who cares at all about what is thought about you after that YOU ARE A PHYSICIAN BOARD CERTIFIED in X. I think Dr. Parker also is talking about setting yourself up for surgical residency opportunities. From this perspective I understand his viewpoints because there absolutely are programs especially in surgical fields that will never look at a DO candidate even if they officially say they will on paper. As he has mentioned he has been in the field and knows how many many program directors think so I have to give it to Dr. Parker on that one. However if you really are not dead set on one residency track and want overall opportunity it is worth giving the DO route a serious look. DRAWBACKS: From my experience at a "well known DO school" you will face issues and extra steps when applying to certain programs. You will have to take two board exams and face real bias on certain programs. Also if you are really considering going to a DO school is you actually want to learn the MSK training you get (ie OMT). I wanted this training and approach and will always advocate for it. However talk to many different people who are doing it to weed through the bullshit on both ends.
Oh wow calm down people, so much hate in this comments! If you don’t know Dr Parker go to his old videos, this is the way he talks and we love that, the fact that he is right or wrong is not the point, that’s just his advice and he gives it to us for a good reason, trying to help us find a good way for our professional career. He doesn’t put ornaments on his words, he is being transparent about his thoughts. We can disagree or not without being offensive. Hope this hatters don’t become Health care professionals 🙄
The problem with Caribbean Schools is, they’re harder to pay for. If I get into medical school, MD/DO the military will pay 100% of the tuition and give me a monthly stipend, the “catch” is it has to be an American or Puerto Rican school. So idk if I would do Caribbean. But it’s good to know that I do have other options
Going to have to disagree on this one. When I worked at the hospital as a CNA, none of the patients knew what that was, and before they would let me do anything to them I had to explain to them I wasn’t a nurse or a doctor like they always thought (benefit of being a male wearing scrubs lol). Got even worse when I was taught phlebotomy and EKGs and promoted to ‘Patient Care Partner’ (PCP). They’d always ask what a PCP was. Did this get old? Sure, but not enough switch to a different job. If someone asks what a DO is you just say there are two different degrees for physician licensure. My hospital didn’t even have degrees next to the name it just said ‘physician’, ‘nurse’. There are a lot of drawbacks going to a carribean program not mentioned including the possibility of having to get loans from non-federal sources, and the additional cost of traveling back and forth from the states. Also you are forever classified as an IMG for medical licensure purposes. Is this bad? No, but like you said there will be some crap from people about that. With the residency merger in progress (and it’s almost already done), everyone will come from ACGME so it doesn’t matter. But still if you are going for a specialty thats super competitive I would argue you should be trying to get into a state MD program and neither DO or carribean. I am a DO student and I can tell you OMM is sometimes cool but mostly a waste of time and brain space that could be used for other subjects. That being said, I don’t feel as though my education is being short changed in any way
To all the people that are fans of this guy: Please, please don't follow this advice. Caribbean is a last ditch effort when MD/DO fail. Go to reddit, sdn, med school insiders, literally any other RUclipsr with a video on this topic and you will see this doctor stands alone in this opinion. The appeal to authority argument he uses falls flat when the other sources I just listed are also Doctors but disagree completely. Please do not go Caribbean for the MD. This is horrible advice and unfortunate that he doubled down on a wrong opinion.
Currently doing a 1-year post-bac and I disagree with a few points you made here. It doesn't take 4 years to get a masters, I'm doing a 1-year program (SMP), specially designed for getting students into medical school (granted you take a certain number of hours). I had the option to go to Caribbean schools, but after a lot of deliberation it's better for me to just take a single year to improve my GPA by a masters program and get a high MCAT score and apply next year to both DO and MD programs. Sure it puts me 1-2 years behind, but my chances of success if I make it into medical school are higher and the numbers back that too. Currently, most post-bac/SMP programs actually have MORE selective application processes than IMG schools do. That's right, every IMG school I applied to I got in, but not every post-bac/SMP program I applied to I got in. Obviously this is a subtle indication of the better route of those looking to go to medical schools nowadays who aren't fortunate enough to get in the first time.
What i mean about 4 years is that you apply to med school, you don't get in, then you have to apply to masters school....GENERALLY you waste at least 6 months doing that. Then you get your masters, but you can't re-apply to med school until you have finished your masters cause then you only have ONE year extra...and is that enough to say you are a much better candidate now? No, it usually takes the 2 years to finish school and THEN repeating MCAT THEN applying again. In general this process takes about 3-4 years. I personally know people who have done this successfully and that's usually the number of years it takes.
Buck Parker, M.D. Buck Parker, M.D. If you are realistic with your MCAT/GPA scores right out of college (which I was), and don't even apply to US DO/MD programs first time, then you won't waste a year applying. What MOST all medical schools accept nowadays from SMPs are 32 hours of science of graded graduate level work, to overlook your undergraduate GPA, this is doable by MOST all SMP programs with 1-year, GPA covered. At the same time you can review for the MCAT (what I'm doing right now), and take it whenever works best for you throughout the year in Master's school, assuming you get the score you need MCAT covered. The program I'm in here at Tulane pumps out 1 year MS students to US DO/MD schools at rates of around 90% (department statistics) this is overall so not 90% of those applying from the program first time get in, but 90% eventually go on to US DO/MD schools. This is WITHIN 2 years of graduating college, sometimes only 1 year (if you had the MCAT score going into the program).
Samuel Smith Med Honestly, don't even call the time out of college as "wasting time". I mean, unless you're one of those people who decided when they were young to dedicate their whole life to medicine, it's perfectly normal to take a few years off to do what you gotta do. I'm in med school now and in my class of 150, I can only think of one person who came in right after undergrad. Easily 80+% of my class took 2+ years off, having gotten a masters in between. I personally took 4 years off, but in addition to raising my grades and taking the MCAT, I worked, published, and more importantly, did a lot of traveling and spent time with my family - things that I realistically wouldn't be able to do at least in my 4 years of med school, possibly longer during the grueling years of residency. Long story short, I wouldn't approach gap years as "wasted time". Use it to improve yourself, but also to take advantage of your youth and spend time with friends and family, and enjoy yourself a little.
Going to Caribbean schools nowadays is a huge risk. When Dr. Buck went to a Caribbean school, it was way way easier to get residency in the States. DOs are way better than Caribbean schools now.
Lets talk about how us citizens going to the Caribbean is for the students unable to get into us medical school. Caribbean schools literally takes anyone with a pulse
What I think would be a good idea (if it is not already happening)for medical students who study in Europe or the UK to see if they can do a residency/training at an overseas military base
Special masters programs are a great alternative if you need to improve your grades. They are one year, at a medical school, and if you do well you can matriculate that next year into the medical school.
This is garbage advice. Please tell me why 83% of DO students matched into an ACGME program and only like 50% of Caribbean IMGs matched? Please tell me. You need way higher scores coming from a carribean school with your precious "MD" than coming from a DO school.
you guys don't know how to read data.....cause yer not experienced. you take 1 number and make assumptions. 90%+ from the good caribbean schools (which are the only ones I recommend) into residency. you must be a DO. lol
you have to break down the data to understand it correctly and then make your decisions on that. you could write a paper that says "100% of patients that walk into X hospital die", and you would be correct. if you assume there is no data in that number then you are a shit researcher and doctor. you have to read the paper to find out that the study was done over 150 years and followed patients that left the hospital....EVERYONE DIES....EVERYONE. but no, you want to take ONE NUMBER, and base your decision on that
Buck Parker, M.D. Dude, you can't seriously believe that MD Caribbean schools give you a better chance at matching. I'm willing to bet my life savings that there were more DOs that matched into surgical sub specialties than any carribean MD grads. Please show me the actual data about 90 plus percent of "Good Caribbean graduates" matching. If you really look at the data. It's mostly primary care. You know why? Because that's what the grads get. Here's what I assume from the data. 50% of american IMGs who entered the match actually matched. You know as well as I do that if we both have the same Step 1 score and the same qualifications, I will always get the knod over the Caribbean grad. I fucking took both COMLEX and USMLE. I matched into a respected ACGME residency. Also, you are so stupid thinking that every patient asks what a DO is. There is way more stigma associated with a doctor who went to the school in the Caribbean than an american grad DO. If any pre-med students are reading this, please go american DO over Caribbean MD. Please dear god save yourself from the tremendous attrition rates and 50% match rates.
westlax34 you miss the point about the stigma against DOs. He has been pretty clear at explaining but it seems y’all are pretty dense on here. There is a reason why some with DOs go back for a MD. Sadly despite having the same tactical skills as an MD, people especially those traditional dorks look down on them. Not fair but the way it is.
Lmfao there is not more stigma being an IMG. Yo you guys can think and do whatever u want I’m just telling you what it’s like from my experience. If you all didn’t feel somewhat awkward about being a DO then u wouldn’t get your panties in a wad about this video. But the fact there are so many DOs jumping on me for this video proves my point.
So let me get this straight.. you’re saying that being an MD over a DO makes you a better Dr? Or are you saying being an MD over DO gives you a better status quo and makes you seem superior? If at the end of the day you care so much about what title you have I wonder what that says about your character as a Dr, are you more focused on yourself or the true focus which should be the patients.
US anything(MD or DO) >>>>> then Caribbean MD. I know of several DO residency programs that wont interview Caribbean students. Also I will take a 98% chance of getting into residency and having to explain to a "few patients" what my degree is then not matching as an IMG
"WHatS Up PArTy PeOple" - Simultaneously shows how old u are while making you different from other youtubers lol (its ok thats actually a good thing cuz i figured out you were old and it made me swerve on internet crush i would have had on you hahaha)
People keep talking about how the merger will make DOs and MDs nondistinct really aren’t looking at the big picture. The merger will hurt DO students immensely. Think about it. Before, there were certain residencies that were set only for DOs and those are being taken away. Now DOs have to compete with MDs for everything. Residency programs are catered to MD curriculums. You will now have to be the best of the best DO just to get your app looked at in the sea of MDs.
I agree with you about it hurting DOs gunning for the top specialties (derm, plastics, uro, etc) but I don't know if what you say is true for DOs going for the less competitive ones. Overall, DOs are not getting pushed out. There are simply too many residency spots right now for that to happen. The ones that will really begin to feel the squeeze are the US IMGs and the FMGs. That's the consensus, at least.
But I agree, the only way that they will become indistinct is in their residency training. The DO degree is still the DO degree and the bias still exists. The real question is, when will the bias go away? Or when will the DO degree itself cease to exist (and perhaps get absorbed into MD)? Can or will that even happen? Who knows?
GoljansTwin see I don’t know. There have been more and more students entering the match every year with very few increases in the number of spots. In the coming years we will see an influx of unmatched students and DOs may become the bulk of that.
@@breea07 That's a fair assessment, especially because DO schools are opening up like crazy and US IMGs and FMGs already don't match well anyway. But I think that we have at least a little bit before what you said becomes the norm.
Can you speak on US IMGs graduating after 2020 and how the merge will affect them? And probably some advice for me? You have no idea how much I'd appreciate that. I have a similar story, probably worse because sometimes I'd sign up to classes, collected my scholarship money and didn't even show up lol. Was obviously kicked out and that was the wake up call for me. I got readmitted the following semester and started taking shit seriously. Unfortunately I had already accumulated a ton of credits and even with my upwards trend (F to A's in bio, A's in orgo etc) it was extremely hard to move up a single point. I graduate (23 yrs old) now this semester and I'll finish with a 2.7ish INCLUDING repeat grades aka lower once AMCAS does the math. I'm at a crossroads. I have people telling me to do 30-60 credits of a DIY postbacc to THEN apply to real postbac/SMP and maybe if I'm lucky I can get accepted with one that has a linkage to their MD or DO school assuming you meet their requirements. Now with that said, that's about 1-2 years of just post bacc credits, another 1-2 between applying and completing the PB/SMP and then another year applying to medical schools assuming theres no linkage. With all that, I prob wont even get to a 3.0 because it'll take THAT many credits at a 4.0 average to get there AND I prob still wont get into an MD school what i've been told) and have to pray for a mid-low tier DO school. I've heard horrible things about Caribbean school but I've also heard its what you make of it. The minute I finished your video your comment section is pretty much what I thought it would be and it's just about all the things I've read and reasons why I shouldnt go. I know for a fact that I want to go through medical school and become a doctor. What I don't know is what path I should take to get there. There are some days where I think "screw it", Caribbean school I'm confident in my abilities and get to finish before I'm 30 but then sometimes I tell myself that maybe being patient and putting in the work for the next couple years to get into a US medical school is the better option and is what I deserve for lacking off my first 2-3 years of undergrad. Both are extremely expensive routes but its even scarier when you read about those people who go to Caribbean school and get into 300K+ debt with nothing to show for it because they couldn't land a residency. I'd appreciate all and any advice. Love your channel btw! It's nice knowing I'm not alone and someone walked these footsteps before me (sorta lol).
Residency PDs highly favor American train physicians, be that MD or DO. If you go Carib, you will absolutely have to score higher on the steps than both MDs and DOs to match. On top of that, the nearly 50% attrition rates at Carib schools should be enough to realize
I disagree with you! DO schools are much better respected than Caribbean schools. You have a much higher chance of matching for residency if you come out of a DO school.
@@drbuckparker hahaha ummm actually nope... Not at all. I'm in an MD school in Texas so... I admire the fact that you were able to match in a gen surgery residency. But I think it's misleading to say that foreign medical schools are better than DO schools.
Buck Parker, M.D. come on Doc, stop shifting the data to fit your opinion. Ironically if you replace “DO” with “IMG” in your response there it perfectly applies to your logic here
Ireland and the UK have the same system as the US, which actually developed its system from these colleges. You are totally confusing them with medical schools in Budapest, Kiev etc.
After making it through a Caribbean med school and currently working as an attending, I have to say I’m grateful I pursued that route and didn’t go to a DO school. I’m assuming the initial hill would have been slightly easier with the DO route but at this point Im grateful to have an MD after my name rather than a DO. I work with some DOs and the worst feeling is when the patients get upset that their doctor has a DO after their name and they have no idea what that is.
One, DOs don't care about nonsense like this because they still get the same paycheck that you do. Two, the vast majority of patients don't pay any attention to the initials after the doctor's name, let alone "get upset" over the initials. Three, patients can also complain about how they don't want to have a physician whose degree came from a random country. Four, many IMGs fail to match into a residency, while >99% of DOs successfully placed into a residency spot in 2020; if someone wants a better guarantee of becoming a physician, DO is by far the better path.
Buck Parker, M.D. naw man I’m not against you my gpa is low but however I’m afraid of not getting into my specialty I want with at a d.o or img school One of the reasons why I subscribe to you was because yiu went to img and you are now a surgeon which i have much respect
DO's and MD's are both licensed physicians. Some even take the same boards and work along side together. I don't get why there are still people questioning the credentials of DO's. They have 4 years of medical like MDs and even have residency programs like MDs. I have a sibling that has an MD and a sibling that is a DO. They both are considered physicians. The sibling with the DO is even a surgeon LOL. Basically, I am saying they are equal degrees ahhaha. Not one is better than the other.
I had this conversation with my mom recently. I told her I was applying to a DO school and she asks me what it was. When I was finished explaining. She then asks me why I wanted to go to school and waste money so I could keep explaining to people that I am a doctor with just a different abbreviation after my name LOL, 😂😂😂😅
Chose to go to an osteopathic medical school. First choice and would never go to an allopathic school. There is very little difference in practicing MD/DOs. Pros for DOs: -We practice OMT as well, so we have techniques that MDs don't have. -Philosophically, we tend to focus on the whole patient rather than just treating the current complaint -although this difference is shrinking. Cons for DOs: -We have to share residencies with MDs, who don't have to take Level 1/2, but we often have to take Step 1. -We have to take 150 more questions on our board exams in the same amount of time. -Many residencies that are allopathic think that a 200 on Step 1=500 on Level 1, which is like saying that almost half of DOs aren't equal to "barely passing" MDs. Many of my colleagues chose to go to an osteopathic medical school. Some people think it's like a second choice, but that is not always the case. When you're a doctor, nobody really cares which school you went to.
Hey Dr. Parker, I am interested in trauma but am unsure if I want to study so many years to be a trauma surgeon. I have researched and seen that there are trauma PAs. Could you make a video about that? How would a trauma PA be incorporated into the team? Thanks!
I know there's a debate over US IMG vs DO. In the end you'll get a residency as an IMG if your step was decent. You'll become a doctor. Maybe not the specialty you want but a doctor in the end. Its possible if you work for it.
Univ Miami grad ‘95. Applied MD and DO simultaneously. Went with first acceptance which was a DO school. New York Med in Valhalla later accepted me but I was set to go to KC, MO. Did IM/hospitalist so no real difference. There is now a single GME accreditation system so many programs mixed already. My recollection was classmates who applied allopathic matched Surgery, Urology, ENT, and Anesthesia at university programs.
Jay Shah very rarely. I will say that I was passed over for Chief Resident position by our chair, despite support from all programs directors, because of my credentials. That actually worked out better in the long run. 😂 Other than that the answer is never.
Just misinformed all around. The Caribbean should only be your last resort for two reasons: 1) Either you tried several times to get into a US medical school and were unsuccessful or 2) You got kicked out of a US medical school, in which case you should strongly evaluate your desire and ability to study medicine. Business people don't grow up saying I want to be a CPA, MBA or a CFA. Lawyers don't grow up saying I want to be a JD. Dentists don't grow up saying I want to be a DDS or DMD. The degree is simply a means to an end. It provides you the education and the ability to pursue further training in the field and later use that knowledge for exercising the duties of the position. If your goal is to become a physician and you live in the United States, attending either a US MD or DO school will serve your purposes and get you to where you want to be. With that said, the current healthcare system favors postgraduate training opportunities for US MDs in certain fields such as surgical subspecialties, radiation oncology, etc. However, these fields are the most competitive, and are competitive for any medical student of any background. For those of you looking at Caribbean schools, be sure to investigate the attrition rates which are colossal. The advertised match lists for these schools are for the medical students who remain enrolled in the last year after the weed-out process, and even at that, are not as good as those for US MD and DO graduates. To add an additional pitch for US DO training, if you have a strong desire to become an expert in clinical anatomy, palpatory skills, and/or the neuromusculoskeletal system, whether that's for PM&R, orthopedics, sports medicine, pain medicine, or any other field, you won't be disappointed going the US DO route.
Haha some controversy will make the views go up! Good video. Do you mind sharing your step 1 score? Must’ve been pretty impressive to get you in a surgery residency.
@@dylanshafer the only thing that has changed is are the numbers, like you know now a size small is a 35 inch waist. it was not EASIER to get that score when i took it. although i'm sure it makes you feel better to think you have it harder now. lol
Can you please do a video on Medical school application essays? I’m interested in what your approach was and I was wondering if you would be willing to share yours?
Hey Dr. Parker, what score on the USMLE Step 1 would you say an IMG would need to get a residency in Neurosurgery? The average matched for US allopatric students is 245 in 2018 according to the NRMP.
You should go to USMD or DO, need to crush it but your chances will be much higher coming out of USMD or Do, there a few programs that essentially still only take DO’s I don’t even think a Carib IMG has Matched neurosurgery the past few years
Sure, the public knows what an MD is. They may not, may not but probably do, know what a DO is. There is also a negative bias against MD's, don't forget that. Plenty of people think negatively of MD's. So I'm applying to both but I'm not assuming that simply because some person understands what an MD does automatically means that he/she wants medical advice from that person. Plenty of people nowadays actually have a positive bias towards DO's. And you're also wrong. If you want to cut people open or give people lip botox go MD. Otherwise, it doesn't matter as much.
Your opinion on MBBS vs MD. Boyfriend will have that from Philippines. He will definitely need to get hands on clinical experience in inpatient and outpatient US Healthsystem expirence before applying for a US residency program. Thank you. 👍😁
Is there any brazillians that works with you ? Recently there is a growing number of brazillian doctors trying to match at us residencies, so i thought that you might know.
I've noticed that most DOs practice in small rural towns and MDs practice in the cities and suburban areas...I think it is harder for DOs to find employment in larger hospitals...just my observation
Part of the D.O. Philosophy places a huge emphasis on rural and underserved medicine so that’s why you would see more D.O’s in those areas where patients do not have as much access to healthcare. It has nothing to do with them not being able to find employment and everything to do with their principles.
Hey Dr. Parker, love your videos! As a newly accepted medical student at a DO school, is there any advice that you can give me that could make me a more competitive candidate for general surgery residencies? I've seen some advise taking both the COMLEX AND the USMLE to broaden your chances, but is that really necessary? I really would like to do general surgery so setting the bar pretty high. Also, in terms of people who think less of DOs, what's the best advice on how to handle people like that? Please and Thank you!
I'm not Dr. Parker, but as a current DO student also interested in surgery, I can tell you what what older students and faculty have told me. Essentially you do want to take both exams to broaden your chances, but honestly, and especially with the 2020 merger, simply taking the COMLEX can be enough if you're ok with matching to residencies that historically have been taking DO only students. You can be more competitive for the match by doing research and doing well in your clinical years (ideally in your surgery rotation lol) and getting a good LoR. As far as people thinking less of DOs, I actually haven't met anyone like that. I've gone out in public with my white coat a few times and I've been called doctor once haha. I think if a patient didn't want to be treated by a DO, it's likely because they had been treated poorly by a DO previously, not simply because of those two letters.
Jhin Long Thank you for your thorough reply Jhin. I really appreciate it! I'm definitely looking forward to starting medical school and will study hard for my boards. I guess with the whole merger, by the time I start practicing, DOs will have alot more light shined on them and people will know more about the field. Also, with regards to research, how and where do I get started with that. I know I want to do research during the summer after MS1, how do I get research "in the specialty that I'm interested in". Thank you!
does anyone know how that 6yr program works ? I’m a senior in high school and I’m so sure I want to go to medical school, and it would be amazing if I could save a lot of that time !
@@holaitspaola4063 there’s many. I’m actually about to attend one this coming fall. Do research and find the list of programs. Theres 6,7, and 8 year programs all over the country all with their own benefits.
US MD > DO > IMG MD This is the way to go. I’m usually a fan of your videos but this advice is shitty. IMG’s match rates are low as hell and DO match rates are only going up. On top of that MD and DO are merging together.
Haha! Nevermind the nipple protrusion Sir. The beard gives the perfect impression of wisdom and authority which is a given with you in any case. I have been growing one for countless years but sadly as soon as I speak, the wisdom/authority of the beard effect is lost!
They're not combining MD and DO degrees, but the residency accreditation programs, ACGME (MD) and AOA (DO) are combining. Every US residency program (not school, those are under different accreditation programs) will now be under the ACGME. This will have several effects, all of which have been discussed on SDN.
@@Kymv8382 Technically it is possible, but it's on the verge of impossibility. Plastics is one of the few fields where the bias is massive against DO's.
@@ADK117 yea but it’s still infinitely more possible then as a Carib IMg, Cleveland clinic literally has a plastics spot reserved just for DO’s it’s hard but way way easier than from the Carib. Us anything>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carib
I mean doc if I had a U.S. D.O. acceptance I'd much rather take that over a MD - IMG (saying this as someone whos going to be attending a big 4 offshore school). Partially its the lifestyle difference, having to live in a predominantly 3rd world country vs. being in the states, IMG stigma (which is often times worse than D.O. stigma). But then again I'm also glad that I won't have to be explaining what D.O. means every time somebody asks lol
Practically 3rd world country? You’re one of the typical American people who only use the media as a source of what the Caribbean is like yet you yourself have never stepped foot outside of the U.S.! Funny! Yet so ignorant!
Honestly the stigma really varies based on where you work. In northern Missouri it’s not near as bad as say notheren Arkansas. There are also a ton of DO schools popping up, and in 20 years the proportion will be more equal DO/MD than today.
I'm sorry, but telling me you went to Harvard, doesn't impress me. What I want to know, is if you care about your patients, or your status and pocket book? Are you owned by big Pharma? Those are the question I want to know about a doctor.
Can someone answer me, please? I study 6-8 hours a day while going to school, which means that I study all subjects not just Biology, and Chemistry, So is that enough for one day? btw I don't take SAT, I take CIE.
Case in point. You are not even hearing what i'm saying, you only hear what you want to hear. I said DOs have an unsubstantiated stigma. How TF is that disrespecting. lol
Anecdotally, I graduated college with a 3.98 GPA but had a low MCAT score due to working full-time (and then some) for family reasons, so I was only accepted into DO programs. I'm now a dermatology resident at a top 10 academic center.
I understand that you went to the Caribbean, but to profess that the route you took is anything but risky is just plain misinformation. I see that you're touting the 93% placement rate, but I implore ANYONE WHO IS READING THIS COMMENT AND THINKING ABOUT GOING TO THE CARRIBEAN FOR MEDICAL SCHOOL to do a merely a half-hour of research into their terrible attraction rates, sub-par clinical education, manipulation of placement (which does not equal MATCH) statistics and how these primarily predatory programs only supply a portion of their class with the support that they need - the rest drown. Not every student is going to place in the 95+ percentile on STEP 1, 2 CK and CS, or have a family member that is a preceptor for a residency program and get lucky finding a job after school. Going Carribean should be the LAST possible route to become a doctor in the United States.
Hi, I am glad I read your comment. I am not planning to go to the Caribbean for medicine but I am seriously considering D.O.
I am aware that you probably don't have time but maybe you can give me brief answer. I wanted to ask about the chances of getting into an anesthesiology residency program for D.O.s
@@salahalsiqami6589 your chances of getting into anesthesia from a DO program are fine. Anesthesia is an averagely competitive specialty. Many, many DO's match into anesthesia every year. Ortho, optho, urology, and derm (and the quick route for plastics) are the only specialties that you will have to work a little harder to place into as a DO. With that being said, I watched a number of students in the class above me at my school (DO) match into urology and optho just this morning in the match. I saw plenty of people from my school last year match into ortho and derm as well and anticipate that a number of students will match into these competitive residencies again this year. In this video this man states that patients will ask you what a DO is... but the reality is 99% of patients can't even tell you if their doctors are DO's or MD's anymore. Most people cannot even tell you if their colleagues are DO's or MD's with certainty off the top of their head. What your patients will care about if the quality of the care you provide for them and if they feel hear, accepted, and safe in the space you create for them. I wish you so much luck in your journey! I know that MD or DO you will have no trouble going into anesthesia if you work for it and out forth the effort.
Way to go Alex.
@@salahalsiqami6589 a D.O. can do anything in fact more then a M. D. From the beach
After thorough consideration, I’m gonna get a WebMD
My family practice physician back home was great, and I didn't realize that he was a D.O. until I took a careful look at his sign outside. Most people hear "Doctor" and that's good enough for them.
...Nah dude. MD > DO > IMG. 100%. Better to explain what a DO is than not match.
Joshua McGough I think he is factoring in that not everyone wants to spend 4 years(post bacc/smp + glide year)for the “opportunity” to go to med school. His route definitely knocked off 2-3 unnecessary years. As a non trad, if I can save a year, why not?
Comoelita Melendez Nah, that's not how it works. He is not in the majority of folks who either don't match or fail out of carib schools. In that case, they're out hundreds of thousands of dollars with no job. In either case, most people should be willing to take one or maybe two extra years to go DO instead of carib.
Let the ego die. Explaining what a DO is isn't as bad as having an MD with no financial security.
I can’t believe this dude just told people to “go to a Caribbean school” because it’s a pain in the ass to explain the DO degree to your patients lol😂
No MD=DO > IMG
I certainly won't argue, but I'll say this: I received a scholarship to attend DO school. I interviewed at multiple top 10 programs in my specialty. I did my residency at the (then) # 1 hospital in America and have been an attending physician in both academic medicine and private practice. I've never had to explain my credentials.
It's good to hear a positive story of success from the other side of the isle, thank you for sharing.
@@jlancepolk there are many stories like mine. You can be the best regardless of the route.
I’m at an MD school, but I sometimes wish I got to learn some MSK OMM techniques. I feel like some of that can be useful for sports medicine/primary care.
Rich 91 It’s just a reflection. Also, the top 1% make ~$500k+/yr, which is a lot more than the majority of physicians make (double what some specialties make, actually). There are many better and easier ways to reach a top 1% income tier.
Rich 91 CEO!
Dr cass ingram is my savior
There are some ACGME residency programs that are adapting MSK OMM techniques as part of their curriculum. I think it 's only FM so far, but they want to train their residents on reducing/managing pain as well as decreasing dependence on opioids. Sounds like it fits what you're looking for.
Agreed, i think DO could be potentially advantageous for PM&R
I highly disagree with this I’m sorry. Osteopathic schools train their students very well and as an osteopathic medical student there is no discrepancy and no reason to not go to an osteopathic school over allopathic. Many people me included enjoy the ethics of osteopathic. Just because people don’t know exactly what a DO is they should make it their responsibility to learn.
Lmao if you’re claiming there is no reason to choose Osteopathic over allopathic US schools, then you should absolutely have no problem with this video because that is just blatantly wrong. No one chooses Osteopathic over allopathic unless there are extenuating circumstances (location, family, chronic illness, etc)
jojokiri I don’t think you read my comment. Many people chose osteopathic because Of their ethics and working to heal the body itself.
jojokiri that’s patently false. Some people believe OMM works and aren’t gunners.
Bob Dole Lol so you're saying there are no gunners in osteopathic schools? And you're implying that all allopathic students are gunners? Absolutely wrong. I can guarantee you, if all DO students could switch to MD they would. They did in California back in the day with UC Irvine, and if given the option, they would today as well. I'm not saying no one believes in OMM. There are several DOs in Europe that practice exclusively OMM and lots of physicians that also believe in some OMM principles (both MD and DO). But what I'm saying is, if a student was accepted to a DO school and a USMD school, they would guaranteed take the MD. And if you're trying to say otherwise, you're just lying to yourself.
jojokiri Are you impaired in the normal abilities of reading comprehension? When did I suggest there were not gunners in DO schools? I said that not everyone attending a DO school was a gunner. These two ideas can be mutually exclusive. Some attend DO school for the philosophy or to crack backs and not to go to a competitive speciality. Best of luck with CARS and the MCAT.
You had some good points in terms of the uphill battle for DO's when talking to a general layman. But in terms of which to choose I think you may have been biased based on the fact that you successfully came out of a Caribbean school, and are here to tell the story. (I have however heard of the counter argument many times from not only friends who went to the Caribbean, but family including my first cousin and brother in law). But you didn't describe how getting into a DO school isn't a walk in the park (even though easier than US MD). When I was graduating from undergrad my friends and I all applied to DO and MD schools. Surprisingly (to us back then at least) many of my friends that didn't get into MD schools didn't get into DO schools either. Those friends who didn't get into either went to the Caribbean (St. George mostly). You are right though, as those who got into US MD went there, but those who got into DO (including me) happily went there and were very grateful. Once I started DO school I was told the average GPA for our class was a 3.7 in undergrad, and MCAT being a 505... lower than a typical MD school, however, the experience in our class is eminence. DO schools tend to target untypical applicants, as many of my peers are pharmacists, nurses, PA's who wanted to enter the medical field. And in terms of residencies, every year, my school has had the majority, about 60% of it's students go into either family medicine or Internal medicine; but also get multiple students to gain ortho/plastics/rad/gen surg residencies every year. We have also had a 99% match rate, but at the same time I've been told by our very own clinical dean that it is more difficult to get into more competitive residencies. That partially being because historically DO's that go after those programs have only taken COMLEX-1 as opposed to STEP 1. HOWEVER our school is now requiring every student to take STEP 1 due to the AOA (Osteopathic accrediting body) and ACGME (Allopathic accrediting body) merger. Bottomline, from my experience, being in an Osteopathic medical school is something i'm very happy with, and not considering a DO school before a Caribbean school would be ill-advised, from MY perspective.
Thanks for the write up, Alvin Yakitori
So, I understand the thought process behind your argument, but I would personally say someone should take a DO spot over any Carribean spot. I am a DO student and take the same classes/rigor as any MD school, and the main difference between DO and Caribbean is that I know I have a much better chance of obtaining a residency in more fields than a Caribbean student. Most international medical graduates (IMG) have a hard time getting into a US residency, and those that do have to have much higher board scores than US-trained medical students. As a DO, I can overcome most "barriers" or stigmas against osteopathic medical school by taking the MD boards (USMLE); as long as I do well on that exam and/or the DO boards (Comlex), I should be every bit as competitive an MD candidate for most residencies. Of course I admit that it will be harder for me than an MD medical student, but still it's much easier than an IMG.
Having said that, I would have totally attended an MD school, but I choose to attend a DO school because I got in on my first try and because there was no guarantee I would gain acceptance to an MD school. I would rather take an acceptance with a little bit more obstacles on my first try than HOPE to gain an acceptance on future application cycles. Further, I am really enjoying learning manipulative medicine, and really I just see it as an additional tool in my "tool" belt that I can use to heal later on.
So proud I chose a reputable DO school over 2 low-tier US MD schools! OMM is honestly so interesting and applicable in so many ways, and I love it so much . Also...DO schools are getting harder to get into, and are increasingly matching more people into competitive specialities. My school has a 2% acceptance rate with an average 3.7 GPA, 506 MCAT, and matched several into ophthalmology, ortho, radiology/ rad onc, anesthesiology, general surgery, plastics etc. And the average step 1 for that class (who took in addition to comlex) was above average at a 235. So the DO profession is definitely changing! Should be interesting what the residency merger entails in 2020-beyond
gfan105 OMT saved my life look up
Troy Giles he’s a quack
gfan105 OMT ruined my back
Kevin Daley doesn’t work for everyone lol. Yesterday I literally fixed a classmates hypertonic muscles in his lumbar and cervical regions and increased range of motion dramatically, as well as significantly decreased his pain and tenderness. Whereas the same thing worked for me in the cervical region, but did nothing in the lumbar region. So I’ve definitely seen things not work/work for others! But that’s literally with every treatment for anything
What are your thoughts on dr cass Ingram
Having to explain what DO is every time is painfully annoying, but it's nothing compared to being handicapped in the match, much more so than DOs are.
Lol bro DOs couldn’t get my residency. But you must be the expert then? Please tell me your credentials.
@@drbuckparker To be fair, sometimes the DO bias does outweigh IMG bias, depending on the institution and the specialty. But I'm just relaying what I've heard from students, residents, fellows, and attendings that participate in the match.
I understand thats what you've heard, that's why I made this video.....cause I tell you guys the no bullshit story. The truth is that there are not as many residency options and most DOs fucking hate they have a stigma. Do IMGs have a stigma? Yes, they also do, but it fades, and the DO stigma does not. I have nothing against DOs in fact a work with a ton and they are just the same as any doc, but the fact remains they hate that there is a difference. That's all I'm trying to say.
I understand, but it sounded like you recommended going to the Caribbean over DO just because of that reason. The match data over the last four years shows a match rate of no greater than 57% for a US IMG. Those are horrendous odds. Furthermore, that doesn't even include the applicants that didn't even receive any interviews, which is staggeringly high.
Fuck yes I do recommend it over the DO. It's my opinion and you guys can take it for whatever you want. But it's my opinion after spending the last 19 years in this system and seeing and speaking to thousands of students and doctors. But WTF do I know! LOL
Updated after the first Single-GME Match (2020):
91% match for all US DO seniors. About 97% with SOAP. Most went into pediatrics, anesthesiology, etc. Orthopedic surgery toppled along with Ophthalmology by hundreds. Only about 650 DOs remain unmatched. 1.2K US MDs remain unmatched.
2K+ IMGs remain unmatched. 60% match, a bulk of which are prelims. I visited St. George’s website for checking their match list. Bulk went into primary care. 95% of their surgical match were prelim. Not even 5 people could manage a categorical surgical match (duh). Do not disarray/ misinform the kids into somewhere b/c of a childish argument (oh it’s different than the letters MD so you’ll be disrespected; after so many years of practice, if this is your argumentation skills... oh nvm. You never really were a bright student when they taught these in school, so you remain a lay when it comes to these intellectual stuff). The stats speak for themselves. DO over a Caribbean MD any days. People nowadays also chose DO if they align with their philosophy b/c at the end that stigma and discrimination, although slightly there, is overall gone. The near perfect match rate speaks. Name any highly specialized specialty-DOs will match more than your IMGs. Your friend is a person, not the entire school.
Some of us are dumb and only applied to DO schools because we thought the philosophy was more appealing. In retrospect, I’m planning on going into a surgical subspecialty and regret everything
Lots of DOs get into surgical specialties. Just do well on boards and do aways.
At the end of the day I just want a competent physician. Let's all quit being assholes and treat everyone with respect
As a patient myself I don’t even go asking if a person ya DO or MD for me my priority is that the doctor takes the time to explain my condition and the repercussions. I have got into MD offices that the doctor barely look at me neither listen to me but then I been treated with PA’s and D.O’s and they have treated me as a human. St the end of the day this DO MD 💩 doesn’t make any difference for the patient as long you can damn fix my health issue.
Roy_Thousand damn bro, that’s some scarily stupid argument you have there. DO’s literally go through the same coursework as MD’s lmao. If you want to get technical they actually do more work with the OMM training. Literally not comparable to non-physician “Doctors” like what you’ve listed. But yeah bro you’re not being ignorant or biased at all ahahahaha
Same.
Gonna have to disagree with you here. The match rates are far too low in Caribbean med schools compared to DO schools. I'd rather have a 95+% chance to explain what my DO degree means to a patient as a doctor than risk a 30-40% chance of not matching at all and being strapped with 400k in debt while jobless. Is it possible to succeed in Caribbean schools? Of course. But anyone who has the grit to kill it in Caribbean school could probably also kill it in a one-year post-bacc program and then get into an American DO/MD school, which has a higher career ceiling on average and a substantially lower risk of not matching.
If you finish at the bottom of your class in a DO school, you're still going to become a doctor. If you finish at the bottom of your class in a Caribbean school, I'd wish you the best of luck. Don't forget that Caribbean med students are IMGs even if they have American citizenship and your connections (on average) to American institutions are also far weaker than any mainland American school. Reddit thread below explains the numbers in much more detail:
www.reddit.com/r/premed/comments/64zzt7/official_rpremed_warning_to_not_attend_an/
I'm not in DO school or Caribbean school so I don't really have any stake in this. Just don't want people to make a potential $400k mistake.
One year post-bacc guarantees you absolutely nothing. The caribbean rates are low cause you are including all the bullshit little schools which I HIGHLY discourage. You go to the right school and you can get any residency you want. I personally know a Pediatric Neuro-Anesthesiologist from a Caribbean school. SHE didn't take no shit from anyone and just kicked ass.
Buck Parker, M.D. Thank you for the response! I don't doubt that one can succeed in a Caribbean med school. I have professors at my school who went the Caribbean route and some of the best resources I've found online have been written by Caribbean MD students. I personally had to grind my way to med school just like you so I believe that anything is possible if you work hard and work smart.
I also agree with you that post-bacc programs don't guarantee anything but neither does a Caribbean school. It is not a black and white decision by any means but it is highly critical that applicants consider their options in totality prior to making arguably one of the biggest and most consequential decisions in their life. My opinion is that if you are 100% confident in your academic abilities and work ethic, it probably doesn't matter what you choose to do. However, the consequences of not achieving your goals in a DO school are minimal compared to those in a Caribbean school (e.g. 198 Step 1 score in DO school = low-tier residency, might have to scramble if you apply stupidly; 198 step 1 score in Caribbean = jobless with $400k in debt since you passed step 1 and can't retake but have nowhere near the score you need to match as an IMG). That's a HUGE, life-changing risk. Some people just aren't cut out for med school (and that's OK!) and face outside pressures to become a doctor (NOT ok). I imagine many of these students end up in the Caribbean, especially the bullshit little schools you're talking about.
Tbh, the so-called DO "stigma" is starting to disappear now. The Residency/Fellowship training is more important than the school you chose. As long as you crush your STEPs and put in effort, you're good. The main downside I can think of is that many DO students write both the COMLEX and USMLE.
def i agree it is much better now.
Crazy you put up this video today, I was just accepted to a DO school this week. I'm an Army officer so I don't have a choice to go IMG. You do raise some interesting points though, I would say without a doubt if you smash step 1... you're going to be just fine no matter where you go.
Are you doing HPSP? Cause if so DO vs MD couldn't matter less
Seriously, im telling you. Don't listen to him. Go DO rather than go IMG Caribbean. and DONT let go of a DO acceptance to get another chance at any MD the next year. ANY US acceptance is better than IMG MD.
I have no idea what everyone is on. I can feel the stigma everyone has against DO's, honestly, there is absolutely 0 difference between the two, I hate when people act like DO's are just for people that couldn't get into a MD school. The argument that DO's cant get into any competitive residency is ridiculous, it's the person and how they perform what determines, plus they are combining MD and DO residency next year. Just be glad you get into any med school md or do, and stop complaining and live your life lol.
There is no difference between the two when you're out in practice, especially in a private practice/employed model, but I've heard over and over again that ACGME residencies don't take DOs as faculty. The good thing is that at least 80% of DOs don't go into academia, so it doesn't really matter.
Furthermore, there is a difference as a student. There is less access to good research (on average), which makes it harder to become a more competitive applicant.
No one has said that you can't make it into the top residencies as a DO. It happens all the time. The point is that it's significantly harder, due to the DO bias. This is undeniable.
Also, DOs gunning for the top specialties are already feeling the pressure because former protected AOA spots (in ortho for example) are already going to MDs. They are opening it up to MDs. That alone is cause for concern because of the increase in competition. Now for most DOs, it's a net positive because the DO bias isn't as strong in the noncompetitive specialties; they actually have more spots to choose from now.
Also, to be honest, the majority of people chose MD first. We all know that. DO is the second choice for the majority of applicants. DO schools themselves know it. It's not a big deal. What matters is that they get to become a doctor at the end of the day.
There is absolutely a difference between the two. Medicine is very elitist. MDs have an easier time going into academic programs which is considered “top tier.” They do research, act as professors, etc. That’s not to say DOs can’t do it, because they absolutely can, but it’s significantly harder to do with a DO behind your name vs an MD. There are several residency programs that do not accept DO applicants. For those of you that don’t know, you can actually see the percentages of DOs in a residency program, just google FREIDA and use that tool.
Now if you’re talking about just two doctors practicing in some clinic, you’re right there’s absolutely no difference. But more prestige comes with being an MD in almost any setting.
@@jojokiri Exactly. I've seen multiple times that PDs will literally throw all DO apps in the garbage (filtering them on ERAS) almost without exception. The only ones that seem to make it through are people that killed away rotations or that have a personal connection to someone high up that's willing to go to bat for them. They will do this is in the surgical subs (plus derm, rad onc, and IR) and at the most prestigious academic institutions in all the other specialties.
The only other way to get in to the most competitive specialties is by focusing on the AOA (now former) programs.
Exactly everyone needs to just wait to say anything until after the merger and we'll see the data then
From my point of view DOs and MDs are 100% equal degrees, and neither type of doctor can be differentiated just from their degrees. True DOs tend to have an undergraduate gpa that's slightly lower, but it's absolutely ridiculous to judge a doctor based on their undergraduate studies. Just think about it, "this doctor got a C in Organic Chemistry, so I don't think he should be the one treating my cancer." Lol. It's funny and sad at the same time.
yes for sure
Love your videos man and love your style!
. Im one of those people who went to a DO school and didnt bother applying to MD schools. I don't really think theres any stigma after residency now vs 20 years ago when you went through the process except maybe in surgical specialties. Again thats my n=1 experience. I am currently at an ACGME emergency medicine program with 70% DO residents. I think the Osteopathic school you go to is important as well. I obviously have bias for where i went (DO school in philly), but certain DO schools are more established and have a much wider residency network with graduates from those schools. I would say look at match results in recent years for certain DO schools and take that in perspective that you will have higher success overall matching in a residency you want vs IMG.
For people applying to med school, i think its important to realize its all about getting into "that residency" you want. After you get that residency who cares at all about what is thought about you after that YOU ARE A PHYSICIAN BOARD CERTIFIED in X.
I think Dr. Parker also is talking about setting yourself up for surgical residency opportunities. From this perspective I understand his viewpoints because there absolutely are programs especially in surgical fields that will never look at a DO candidate even if they officially say they will on paper. As he has mentioned he has been in the field and knows how many many program directors think so I have to give it to Dr. Parker on that one. However if you really are not dead set on one residency track and want overall opportunity it is worth giving the DO route a serious look.
DRAWBACKS: From my experience at a "well known DO school" you will face issues and extra steps when applying to certain programs. You will have to take two board exams and face real bias on certain programs. Also if you are really considering going to a DO school is you actually want to learn the MSK training you get (ie OMT). I wanted this training and approach and will always advocate for it. However talk to many different people who are doing it to weed through the bullshit on both ends.
Oh wow calm down people, so much hate in this
comments! If you don’t know Dr Parker go to his old videos, this is the way he talks and we love that, the fact that he is right or wrong is not the point, that’s just his advice and he gives it to us for a good reason, trying to help us find a good way for our professional career. He doesn’t put ornaments on his words, he is being transparent about his thoughts. We can disagree or not without being offensive. Hope this hatters don’t become Health care professionals 🙄
The problem with Caribbean Schools is, they’re harder to pay for. If I get into medical school, MD/DO the military will pay 100% of the tuition and give me a monthly stipend, the “catch” is it has to be an American or Puerto Rican school. So idk if I would do Caribbean. But it’s good to know that I do have other options
MD US > DO US > MD(overseas)> DMD > Nurse practitioner> Physician assistant > Nurse assistant >student doctor forum moderator
Going to have to disagree on this one. When I worked at the hospital as a CNA, none of the patients knew what that was, and before they would let me do anything to them I had to explain to them I wasn’t a nurse or a doctor like they always thought (benefit of being a male wearing scrubs lol). Got even worse when I was taught phlebotomy and EKGs and promoted to ‘Patient Care Partner’ (PCP). They’d always ask what a PCP was. Did this get old? Sure, but not enough switch to a different job. If someone asks what a DO is you just say there are two different degrees for physician licensure. My hospital didn’t even have degrees next to the name it just said ‘physician’, ‘nurse’. There are a lot of drawbacks going to a carribean program not mentioned including the possibility of having to get loans from non-federal sources, and the additional cost of traveling back and forth from the states. Also you are forever classified as an IMG for medical licensure purposes. Is this bad? No, but like you said there will be some crap from people about that. With the residency merger in progress (and it’s almost already done), everyone will come from ACGME so it doesn’t matter. But still if you are going for a specialty thats super competitive I would argue you should be trying to get into a state MD program and neither DO or carribean. I am a DO student and I can tell you OMM is sometimes cool but mostly a waste of time and brain space that could be used for other subjects. That being said, I don’t feel as though my education is being short changed in any way
I'm seeing more and more Surgeons who are DOs these days. My orthopedic doctor is a DO.
To all the people that are fans of this guy:
Please, please don't follow this advice. Caribbean is a last ditch effort when MD/DO fail. Go to reddit, sdn, med school insiders, literally any other RUclipsr with a video on this topic and you will see this doctor stands alone in this opinion. The appeal to authority argument he uses falls flat when the other sources I just listed are also Doctors but disagree completely.
Please do not go Caribbean for the MD. This is horrible advice and unfortunate that he doubled down on a wrong opinion.
Currently doing a 1-year post-bac and I disagree with a few points you made here. It doesn't take 4 years to get a masters, I'm doing a 1-year program (SMP), specially designed for getting students into medical school (granted you take a certain number of hours). I had the option to go to Caribbean schools, but after a lot of deliberation it's better for me to just take a single year to improve my GPA by a masters program and get a high MCAT score and apply next year to both DO and MD programs. Sure it puts me 1-2 years behind, but my chances of success if I make it into medical school are higher and the numbers back that too. Currently, most post-bac/SMP programs actually have MORE selective application processes than IMG schools do. That's right, every IMG school I applied to I got in, but not every post-bac/SMP program I applied to I got in. Obviously this is a subtle indication of the better route of those looking to go to medical schools nowadays who aren't fortunate enough to get in the first time.
What i mean about 4 years is that you apply to med school, you don't get in, then you have to apply to masters school....GENERALLY you waste at least 6 months doing that. Then you get your masters, but you can't re-apply to med school until you have finished your masters cause then you only have ONE year extra...and is that enough to say you are a much better candidate now? No, it usually takes the 2 years to finish school and THEN repeating MCAT THEN applying again. In general this process takes about 3-4 years. I personally know people who have done this successfully and that's usually the number of years it takes.
Buck Parker, M.D. Buck Parker, M.D. If you are realistic with your MCAT/GPA scores right out of college (which I was), and don't even apply to US DO/MD programs first time, then you won't waste a year applying. What MOST all medical schools accept nowadays from SMPs are 32 hours of science of graded graduate level work, to overlook your undergraduate GPA, this is doable by MOST all SMP programs with 1-year, GPA covered. At the same time you can review for the MCAT (what I'm doing right now), and take it whenever works best for you throughout the year in Master's school, assuming you get the score you need MCAT covered. The program I'm in here at Tulane pumps out 1 year MS students to US DO/MD schools at rates of around 90% (department statistics) this is overall so not 90% of those applying from the program first time get in, but 90% eventually go on to US DO/MD schools. This is WITHIN 2 years of graduating college, sometimes only 1 year (if you had the MCAT score going into the program).
Samuel Smith Med Honestly, don't even call the time out of college as "wasting time". I mean, unless you're one of those people who decided when they were young to dedicate their whole life to medicine, it's perfectly normal to take a few years off to do what you gotta do. I'm in med school now and in my class of 150, I can only think of one person who came in right after undergrad. Easily 80+% of my class took 2+ years off, having gotten a masters in between. I personally took 4 years off, but in addition to raising my grades and taking the MCAT, I worked, published, and more importantly, did a lot of traveling and spent time with my family - things that I realistically wouldn't be able to do at least in my 4 years of med school, possibly longer during the grueling years of residency. Long story short, I wouldn't approach gap years as "wasted time". Use it to improve yourself, but also to take advantage of your youth and spend time with friends and family, and enjoy yourself a little.
Going to Caribbean schools nowadays is a huge risk. When Dr. Buck went to a Caribbean school, it was way way easier to get residency in the States. DOs are way better than Caribbean schools now.
when i went it was way easier? u r clueless lol.
@@drbuckparker You are dumb as dogshit
@@suereepmeyer6819 exactly, I’d rather just be a nurse, than go to the Caribbean
Lets talk about how us citizens going to the Caribbean is for the students unable to get into us medical school. Caribbean schools literally takes anyone with a pulse
I disagree with you and I feel sorry for the people you will mislead with this video. Please stop putting out false information. Thanks
It's easy to research. Most hospitals post profiles of their residents.
Carribean grads are doing better these days but DO has become outstanding .
What I think would be a good idea (if it is not already happening)for medical students who study in Europe or the UK to see if they can do a residency/training at an overseas military base
Special masters programs are a great alternative if you need to improve your grades. They are one year, at a medical school, and if you do well you can matriculate that next year into the medical school.
This is garbage advice. Please tell me why 83% of DO students matched into an ACGME program and only like 50% of Caribbean IMGs matched? Please tell me. You need way higher scores coming from a carribean school with your precious "MD" than coming from a DO school.
you guys don't know how to read data.....cause yer not experienced. you take 1 number and make assumptions. 90%+ from the good caribbean schools (which are the only ones I recommend) into residency. you must be a DO. lol
you have to break down the data to understand it correctly and then make your decisions on that. you could write a paper that says "100% of patients that walk into X hospital die", and you would be correct. if you assume there is no data in that number then you are a shit researcher and doctor. you have to read the paper to find out that the study was done over 150 years and followed patients that left the hospital....EVERYONE DIES....EVERYONE. but no, you want to take ONE NUMBER, and base your decision on that
Buck Parker, M.D. Dude, you can't seriously believe that MD Caribbean schools give you a better chance at matching. I'm willing to bet my life savings that there were more DOs that matched into surgical sub specialties than any carribean MD grads. Please show me the actual data about 90 plus percent of "Good Caribbean graduates" matching. If you really look at the data. It's mostly primary care. You know why? Because that's what the grads get. Here's what I assume from the data. 50% of american IMGs who entered the match actually matched. You know as well as I do that if we both have the same Step 1 score and the same qualifications, I will always get the knod over the Caribbean grad. I fucking took both COMLEX and USMLE. I matched into a respected ACGME residency. Also, you are so stupid thinking that every patient asks what a DO is. There is way more stigma associated with a doctor who went to the school in the Caribbean than an american grad DO. If any pre-med students are reading this, please go american DO over Caribbean MD. Please dear god save yourself from the tremendous attrition rates and 50% match rates.
westlax34 you miss the point about the stigma against DOs. He has been pretty clear at explaining but it seems y’all are pretty dense on here. There is a reason why some with DOs go back for a MD. Sadly despite having the same tactical skills as an MD, people especially those traditional dorks look down on them. Not fair but the way it is.
Lmfao there is not more stigma being an IMG. Yo you guys can think and do whatever u want I’m just telling you what it’s like from my experience. If you all didn’t feel somewhat awkward about being a DO then u wouldn’t get your panties in a wad about this video. But the fact there are so many DOs jumping on me for this video proves my point.
So let me get this straight.. you’re saying that being an MD over a DO makes you a better Dr? Or are you saying being an MD over DO gives you a better status quo and makes you seem superior? If at the end of the day you care so much about what title you have I wonder what that says about your character as a Dr, are you more focused on yourself or the true focus which should be the patients.
I’m not saying it makes you a better doctor. I’m saying you get treated better by society.
US anything(MD or DO) >>>>> then Caribbean MD. I know of several DO residency programs that wont interview Caribbean students. Also I will take a 98% chance of getting into residency and having to explain to a "few patients" what my degree is then not matching as an IMG
I imagine what it would be like having to explain the DO initials over why I went to school overseas if I am a US citizen.
@@poisonivy6477 yeah but that DO is from the United States, which is highly respected in Medicine, period.
"WHatS Up PArTy PeOple" - Simultaneously shows how old u are while making you different from other youtubers lol
(its ok thats actually a good thing cuz i figured out you were old and it made me swerve on internet crush i would have had on you hahaha)
People keep talking about how the merger will make DOs and MDs nondistinct really aren’t looking at the big picture. The merger will hurt DO students immensely. Think about it. Before, there were certain residencies that were set only for DOs and those are being taken away. Now DOs have to compete with MDs for everything. Residency programs are catered to MD curriculums. You will now have to be the best of the best DO just to get your app looked at in the sea of MDs.
I agree with you about it hurting DOs gunning for the top specialties (derm, plastics, uro, etc) but I don't know if what you say is true for DOs going for the less competitive ones. Overall, DOs are not getting pushed out. There are simply too many residency spots right now for that to happen. The ones that will really begin to feel the squeeze are the US IMGs and the FMGs. That's the consensus, at least.
But I agree, the only way that they will become indistinct is in their residency training. The DO degree is still the DO degree and the bias still exists. The real question is, when will the bias go away? Or when will the DO degree itself cease to exist (and perhaps get absorbed into MD)? Can or will that even happen? Who knows?
GoljansTwin see I don’t know. There have been more and more students entering the match every year with very few increases in the number of spots. In the coming years we will see an influx of unmatched students and DOs may become the bulk of that.
@@breea07 That's a fair assessment, especially because DO schools are opening up like crazy and US IMGs and FMGs already don't match well anyway. But I think that we have at least a little bit before what you said becomes the norm.
Can you speak on US IMGs graduating after 2020 and how the merge will affect them? And probably some advice for me? You have no idea how much I'd appreciate that.
I have a similar story, probably worse because sometimes I'd sign up to classes, collected my scholarship money and didn't even show up lol. Was obviously kicked out and that was the wake up call for me. I got readmitted the following semester and started taking shit seriously. Unfortunately I had already accumulated a ton of credits and even with my upwards trend (F to A's in bio, A's in orgo etc) it was extremely hard to move up a single point. I graduate (23 yrs old) now this semester and I'll finish with a 2.7ish INCLUDING repeat grades aka lower once AMCAS does the math.
I'm at a crossroads. I have people telling me to do 30-60 credits of a DIY postbacc to THEN apply to real postbac/SMP and maybe if I'm lucky I can get accepted with one that has a linkage to their MD or DO school assuming you meet their requirements. Now with that said, that's about 1-2 years of just post bacc credits, another 1-2 between applying and completing the PB/SMP and then another year applying to medical schools assuming theres no linkage. With all that, I prob wont even get to a 3.0 because it'll take THAT many credits at a 4.0 average to get there AND I prob still wont get into an MD school what i've been told) and have to pray for a mid-low tier DO school. I've heard horrible things about Caribbean school but I've also heard its what you make of it. The minute I finished your video your comment section is pretty much what I thought it would be and it's just about all the things I've read and reasons why I shouldnt go. I know for a fact that I want to go through medical school and become a doctor. What I don't know is what path I should take to get there. There are some days where I think "screw it", Caribbean school I'm confident in my abilities and get to finish before I'm 30 but then sometimes I tell myself that maybe being patient and putting in the work for the next couple years to get into a US medical school is the better option and is what I deserve for lacking off my first 2-3 years of undergrad. Both are extremely expensive routes but its even scarier when you read about those people who go to Caribbean school and get into 300K+ debt with nothing to show for it because they couldn't land a residency. I'd appreciate all and any advice. Love your channel btw! It's nice knowing I'm not alone and someone walked these footsteps before me (sorta lol).
Residency PDs highly favor American train physicians, be that MD or DO. If you go Carib, you will absolutely have to score higher on the steps than both MDs and DOs to match. On top of that, the nearly 50% attrition rates at Carib schools should be enough to realize
I disagree with you! DO schools are much better respected than Caribbean schools. You have a much higher chance of matching for residency if you come out of a DO school.
Lol. All u guys who disagree are all DOs and biased.
@@drbuckparker hahaha ummm actually nope... Not at all. I'm in an MD school in Texas so... I admire the fact that you were able to match in a gen surgery residency. But I think it's misleading to say that foreign medical schools are better than DO schools.
Buck Parker, M.D. come on Doc, stop shifting the data to fit your opinion. Ironically if you replace “DO” with “IMG” in your response there it perfectly applies to your logic here
What do you think about allergist? Pay piece of getting a position, difficulty of the program?
Ireland and the UK have the same system as the US, which actually developed its system from these colleges. You are totally confusing them with medical schools in Budapest, Kiev etc.
After making it through a Caribbean med school and currently working as an attending, I have to say I’m grateful I pursued that route and didn’t go to a DO school. I’m assuming the initial hill would have been slightly easier with the DO route but at this point Im grateful to have an MD after my name rather than a DO. I work with some DOs and the worst feeling is when the patients get upset that their doctor has a DO after their name and they have no idea what that is.
One, DOs don't care about nonsense like this because they still get the same paycheck that you do. Two, the vast majority of patients don't pay any attention to the initials after the doctor's name, let alone "get upset" over the initials. Three, patients can also complain about how they don't want to have a physician whose degree came from a random country. Four, many IMGs fail to match into a residency, while >99% of DOs successfully placed into a residency spot in 2020; if someone wants a better guarantee of becoming a physician, DO is by far the better path.
Lol patients call Np/PAs doctor nowadays and you're worried that people don't know what DOs are?
@@lolajay1768 I mean they do have a doctorate degree, so it’s not wrong to call a NP, doctor.
The real question is whether or not osteopathy is valid.
Thanks for the advises Buck~ 😊
im in med school at a ripe age of 17, its in europe and im one of the youngest people here
Congrats!
@@drbuckparker your advice definately helped me get here, and watching you telling everyone, that anyone could do surgery was super empowering
Oh shit!! You're going there. The DO vs MD argument is always scintillating.
Md high gpa good match
D.o low gpa hard to match
Img nuclear option
I’m i right
lol. i don't exactly look at it that way but its your opinion:)
Buck Parker, M.D.
naw man I’m not against you my gpa is low but however I’m afraid of not getting into my specialty I want with at a d.o or img school
One of the reasons why I subscribe to you was because yiu went to img and you are now a surgeon which i have much respect
🙏
Hard to match for DO? 95% match rate is low to you?
DO's and MD's are both licensed physicians. Some even take the same boards and work along side together. I don't get why there are still people questioning the credentials of DO's. They have 4 years of medical like MDs and even have residency programs like MDs. I have a sibling that has an MD and a sibling that is a DO. They both are considered physicians. The sibling with the DO is even a surgeon LOL. Basically, I am saying they are equal degrees ahhaha. Not one is better than the other.
I had this conversation with my mom recently. I told her I was applying to a DO school and she asks me what it was. When I was finished explaining. She then asks me why I wanted to go to school and waste money so I could keep explaining to people that I am a doctor with just a different abbreviation after my name LOL, 😂😂😂😅
hahaha
Chose to go to an osteopathic medical school. First choice and would never go to an allopathic school. There is very little difference in practicing MD/DOs.
Pros for DOs:
-We practice OMT as well, so we have techniques that MDs don't have.
-Philosophically, we tend to focus on the whole patient rather than just treating the current complaint -although this difference is shrinking.
Cons for DOs:
-We have to share residencies with MDs, who don't have to take Level 1/2, but we often have to take Step 1.
-We have to take 150 more questions on our board exams in the same amount of time.
-Many residencies that are allopathic think that a 200 on Step 1=500 on Level 1, which is like saying that almost half of DOs aren't equal to "barely passing" MDs.
Many of my colleagues chose to go to an osteopathic medical school. Some people think it's like a second choice, but that is not always the case. When you're a doctor, nobody really cares which school you went to.
welcome back doctor
Hey Dr. Parker, I am interested in trauma but am unsure if I want to study so many years to be a trauma surgeon. I have researched and seen that there are trauma PAs. Could you make a video about that? How would a trauma PA be incorporated into the team? Thanks!
I know there's a debate over US IMG vs DO. In the end you'll get a residency as an IMG if your step was decent. You'll become a doctor. Maybe not the specialty you want but a doctor in the end. Its possible if you work for it.
Caribbean over DO? Who cares what others think?
Univ Miami grad ‘95. Applied MD and DO simultaneously. Went with first acceptance which was a DO school. New York Med in Valhalla later accepted me but I was set to go to KC, MO. Did IM/hospitalist so no real difference. There is now a single GME accreditation system so many programs mixed already. My recollection was classmates who applied allopathic matched Surgery, Urology, ENT, and Anesthesia at university programs.
Have you ever had to explain to patients or other ppl what DO that you were still a real doctor?
Btw I'm currently a DO student just curious
Jay Shah very rarely. I will say that I was passed over for Chief Resident position by our chair, despite support from all programs directors, because of my credentials. That actually worked out better in the long run. 😂 Other than that the answer is never.
Jay Shah Good luck in school and your career. I am one of 6 DOs in a 30 person hospitalist group and never have had a problem. Literally never.
How many times can u take the mcat ?
I can’t with the nonsense 🤦🏻♀️😂
why bitch. back to the kitchen you go
Just misinformed all around. The Caribbean should only be your last resort for two reasons: 1) Either you tried several times to get into a US medical school and were unsuccessful or 2) You got kicked out of a US medical school, in which case you should strongly evaluate your desire and ability to study medicine. Business people don't grow up saying I want to be a CPA, MBA or a CFA. Lawyers don't grow up saying I want to be a JD. Dentists don't grow up saying I want to be a DDS or DMD. The degree is simply a means to an end. It provides you the education and the ability to pursue further training in the field and later use that knowledge for exercising the duties of the position. If your goal is to become a physician and you live in the United States, attending either a US MD or DO school will serve your purposes and get you to where you want to be. With that said, the current healthcare system favors postgraduate training opportunities for US MDs in certain fields such as surgical subspecialties, radiation oncology, etc. However, these fields are the most competitive, and are competitive for any medical student of any background. For those of you looking at Caribbean schools, be sure to investigate the attrition rates which are colossal. The advertised match lists for these schools are for the medical students who remain enrolled in the last year after the weed-out process, and even at that, are not as good as those for US MD and DO graduates. To add an additional pitch for US DO training, if you have a strong desire to become an expert in clinical anatomy, palpatory skills, and/or the neuromusculoskeletal system, whether that's for PM&R, orthopedics, sports medicine, pain medicine, or any other field, you won't be disappointed going the US DO route.
Thank you for posting this! Really great insight!
Have you ever considered being a military Dr.?
Caribbean should be the last option, period!
Well Mr. James I'm from the Caribbean and I'm in med school too and we a have pretty good MD program.
How come I’ve also heard US MD students/ grads recommend against IMG?
Haha some controversy will make the views go up! Good video. Do you mind sharing your step 1 score? Must’ve been pretty impressive to get you in a surgery residency.
90th percentile. at the time it was 220.
Buck Parker, M.D. lol how times have changed
@@dylanshafer the only thing that has changed is are the numbers, like you know now a size small is a 35 inch waist. it was not EASIER to get that score when i took it. although i'm sure it makes you feel better to think you have it harder now. lol
Can you please do a video on Medical school application essays? I’m interested in what your approach was and I was wondering if you would be willing to share yours?
Hey Dr. Parker, what score on the USMLE Step 1 would you say an IMG would need to get a residency in Neurosurgery? The average matched for US allopatric students is 245 in 2018 according to the NRMP.
It's virtually impossible match into neurosurgery as an IMG, regardless of your Step 1 score.
You should go to USMD or DO, need to crush it but your chances will be much higher coming out of USMD or Do, there a few programs that essentially still only take DO’s I don’t even think a Carib IMG has Matched neurosurgery the past few years
Ahhh a video without objectivity
Sure, the public knows what an MD is. They may not, may not but probably do, know what a DO is. There is also a negative bias against MD's, don't forget that. Plenty of people think negatively of MD's. So I'm applying to both but I'm not assuming that simply because some person understands what an MD does automatically means that he/she wants medical advice from that person. Plenty of people nowadays actually have a positive bias towards DO's. And you're also wrong. If you want to cut people open or give people lip botox go MD. Otherwise, it doesn't matter as much.
Can you make a video for Europe medical students ?
Hey, can you adress the HPV vaccine in your next video?
Awesome video!
what are the top 4 caribbean med schools?
What do you think about Podiatric Surgeons?
4 years to get a master's degree? lolwut
I missed your uploads
Your opinion on MBBS vs MD.
Boyfriend will have that from Philippines.
He will definitely need to get hands on clinical experience in inpatient and outpatient US Healthsystem expirence before applying for a US residency program.
Thank you.
👍😁
Is there any brazillians that works with you ? Recently there is a growing number of brazillian doctors trying to match at us residencies, so i thought that you might know.
I've noticed that most DOs practice in small rural towns and MDs practice in the cities and suburban areas...I think it is harder for DOs to find employment in larger hospitals...just my observation
That's not even close to true. A board certified physician is a board certified physician.
Part of the D.O. Philosophy places a huge emphasis on rural and underserved medicine so that’s why you would see more D.O’s in those areas where patients do not have as much access to healthcare. It has nothing to do with them not being able to find employment and everything to do with their principles.
Hey Dr. Parker, love your videos! As a newly accepted medical student at a DO school, is there any advice that you can give me that could make me a more competitive candidate for general surgery residencies? I've seen some advise taking both the COMLEX AND the USMLE to broaden your chances, but is that really necessary? I really would like to do general surgery so setting the bar pretty high. Also, in terms of people who think less of DOs, what's the best advice on how to handle people like that? Please and Thank you!
I'm not Dr. Parker, but as a current DO student also interested in surgery, I can tell you what what older students and faculty have told me. Essentially you do want to take both exams to broaden your chances, but honestly, and especially with the 2020 merger, simply taking the COMLEX can be enough if you're ok with matching to residencies that historically have been taking DO only students. You can be more competitive for the match by doing research and doing well in your clinical years (ideally in your surgery rotation lol) and getting a good LoR. As far as people thinking less of DOs, I actually haven't met anyone like that. I've gone out in public with my white coat a few times and I've been called doctor once haha. I think if a patient didn't want to be treated by a DO, it's likely because they had been treated poorly by a DO previously, not simply because of those two letters.
Jhin Long Thank you for your thorough reply Jhin. I really appreciate it! I'm definitely looking forward to starting medical school and will study hard for my boards. I guess with the whole merger, by the time I start practicing, DOs will have alot more light shined on them and people will know more about the field. Also, with regards to research, how and where do I get started with that. I know I want to do research during the summer after MS1, how do I get research "in the specialty that I'm interested in". Thank you!
does anyone know how that 6yr program works ? I’m a senior in high school and I’m so sure I want to go to medical school, and it would be amazing if I could save a lot of that time !
what is the 6yr program called ?
@@holaitspaola4063 there’s many. I’m actually about to attend one this coming fall. Do research and find the list of programs. Theres 6,7, and 8 year programs all over the country all with their own benefits.
You really got this from you Instagram live lol
DO is my top choice. May not even apply MD ha.
Which of the Caribbean schools are the good ones?????
St. George, Ross, AUC
Ross here baby!
what are your thoughts on American University of Antigua (AUA) @@drbuckparker
US MD > DO > IMG MD
This is the way to go. I’m usually a fan of your videos but this advice is shitty. IMG’s match rates are low as hell and DO match rates are only going up. On top of that MD and DO are merging together.
Haha! Nevermind the nipple protrusion Sir. The beard gives the perfect impression of wisdom and authority which is a given with you in any case. I have been growing one for countless years but sadly as soon as I speak, the wisdom/authority of the beard effect is lost!
@Almumin It is lost because I am not very wise unlike the doctor haha.
Aren’t they combining the two programs as one in a few years ??
lol they've been saying that for 25 years. don't count on it.
They're not combining MD and DO degrees, but the residency accreditation programs, ACGME (MD) and AOA (DO) are combining. Every US residency program (not school, those are under different accreditation programs) will now be under the ACGME. This will have several effects, all of which have been discussed on SDN.
SDN is an unreliable source AT BEST.
@@drbuckparker its already started, should be completely merged by 2020
Buck Parker, M.D. the merging is happening in 2020. It’s been officially announced my dude. Keep up.
Can a DO do plastic surgery?
Yes.
@@Kymv8382 Technically it is possible, but it's on the verge of impossibility. Plastics is one of the few fields where the bias is massive against DO's.
@@ADK117 yea but it’s still infinitely more possible then as a Carib IMg, Cleveland clinic literally has a plastics spot reserved just for DO’s it’s hard but way way easier than from the Carib. Us anything>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carib
Plus I can do a military residency. So if they need surgeons and you’ve got the grades, they don’t care what school you went to lol
I mean doc if I had a U.S. D.O. acceptance I'd much rather take that over a MD - IMG (saying this as someone whos going to be attending a big 4 offshore school). Partially its the lifestyle difference, having to live in a predominantly 3rd world country vs. being in the states, IMG stigma (which is often times worse than D.O. stigma). But then again I'm also glad that I won't have to be explaining what D.O. means every time somebody asks lol
you will be happy u did what you did. it's a temporary inconvenience for long term payoff.
Practically 3rd world country? You’re one of the typical American people who only use the media as a source of what the Caribbean is like yet you yourself have never stepped foot outside of the U.S.! Funny! Yet so ignorant!
What do you think of Mexican medical schools?
Good question
Honestly the stigma really varies based on where you work. In northern Missouri it’s not near as bad as say notheren Arkansas. There are also a ton of DO schools popping up, and in 20 years the proportion will be more equal DO/MD than today.
I'm sorry, but telling me you went to Harvard, doesn't impress me. What I want to know, is if you care about your patients, or your status and pocket book? Are you owned by big Pharma? Those are the question I want to know about a doctor.
Can someone answer me, please? I study 6-8 hours a day while going to school, which means that I study all subjects not just Biology, and Chemistry, So is that enough for one day? btw I don't take SAT, I take CIE.
No way anyone should go to a Caribbean school over a DO School! lol
Unsubscribing because of this video. What a blatant disrespect to your fellow colleagues.
Case in point. You are not even hearing what i'm saying, you only hear what you want to hear. I said DOs have an unsubstantiated stigma. How TF is that disrespecting. lol
@@drbuckparker yeah I'm starting DO school this year and thought this video was totally fine. Keep up the good work man
So not a fan of Dr. Mike?
lol no he's fine i just have to talk shit on him cause he's better looking, younger, taller and makes more money....what else can i do! lol
OMT ruined my back!
freethenip
That thumb tho
I work out and have the same nipple thing lol it's normal