Camilla is _definitely_ an odd character. Appearances outside of Fates have flanderized her to the point Corrin is ALL she talks about, when in Fates itself...she was kinda just _genuinely_ a psychopath, excluding the Corrin obsession every royal has here. She threatens Selena to cut off her legs if she ever tried to leave. her S-Support with Keaton implies she's _attracted_ to the scent of blood on him. She nearly decapitates Hinoka just to prove a point. She teases Laslow that she will experiment new torturing methods on him if he flirted with other women. And her attraction to Corrin goes to the point that she'd rather kill them and cradle their barely still-warm body than let them leave her behind. Camilla's past hinges on the royal court of Nohr, where Garon's suitors were constantly attempting to kill each other, and each other's children _just_ to be the only ones left to inherit any sort of power. Camilla herself was used as little more than a card in a poker game, inhuman, unfeeling, cold. It's that trauma that shapes who she is in the present; someone who smothers Corrin who she sees herself in to an unhealthy degree, since there's nothing _normal_ about her mindset. It's actually very interesting to look into, and it's a shame that all her non-canon appearances never actually carry much of that over, instead just focusing on the fan-service. She is very much a great representation of Nohr; where pain, sorrow, desperation, and loneliness is as bountiful as blades of grass. This is also why many Nohrians are on-board with invading Hoshido. They have an immense surplus of resources and land, and their kingdom isn't constantly bathed in darkness and desolation. Ryoma himself is completely oblivious to the misery that Nohrians live through until he's brought face-to-face with it and told by Silas. Anyway, Camilla DEFINITELY deserves to be significantly higher. The sexualization is weird, but she herself is stranger than most characters on this list; just being a more subtle Peri And for the Velouria stuff, it's not really "codependent," since Keaton is _also_ weirded out by Velouria's obsession with him. To the point of being unsetled and trying to forcibly separate her from himself. I never knew people took Velouria's love to be carnal though. She's just a daddy's girl...and a mommy's girl too in her mother-supports with whoever Keaton married. She definitely does have dog-elements like Keaton does, and that manifests as her having severe separation-anxiety. And, yeah, there's the obvious Deeprealm stuff, where children were separated from their parents for years on end. Keaton definitely strikes me as one of the better fathers, since as long as he doesn't have _need_ to hide his emotions, he's a very friendly, thoughtful guy...just a little stupid. I love Keaton
Camilla makes me angry because she literally could've been an amazing character but the fates writers are so incompetent that they probably dont even know what the word subtly means
Idk I think Xander should be in "the writers are the weirdos" because that one support where he describes how much he likes destroying Banjo Kazooie cartridges in extensive detail always read to me as someone's weirdly specific fetish
I had to bench him after that, I just couldn't in good conscious keep him on the same team as charlotte after he forced her to watch him smash all those cartridges for hours on end...
@FubblerCo. ngl that made me change him into a monk with a heart seal, i had to deploy him but just coudln't handle the idea of him having a weapon anywhere near a POTENTIAL banzo kazooie/tooie cartridge even, its hard ...
Something interesting about Effie was that her intensity was not as present in the Japanese version compared to Western releases, so it led me to headcanon that Effie is only that intense in combat, and outside of combat she's just kind of a normal, supportive gymbro.
I feel like Rosado and Forrest are similar but distinct characters to the point where I wouldn’t say one is just a strict upgrade from the other. As a male who likes collecting dresses, making jewelry, long hair (and doesn’t consider myself trans) I feel like I can relate to Forrest more than Rosado. This is because Rosado has very defined views on self expression and his appearance/character is somewhat a reflection of that sentiment whereas Forrest dresses the way he does simply because that’s what he’s always been drawn to. I don’t really have any profound opinions on self expression, I’m drawn to more effeminate things simply because it’s what I like. Banjo Kazooie
Unironically, I like Corrin for the potential that they had as a character, and I feel like some of the grievances that people have with their decisions make sense if you view them through the lenses of trauma and neglect that makes up their childhood, even in their recent memory. I wish that Fates had properly committed to Corrin as a character without all excuses, but I'm also not sure that Fire Emblem as a series at the time could have properly provided the level of character and story that I think Corrin had the potential to excel in.
Silas is extremely funny to me because he’s literally Phoenix wright: young spiky haired child makes friend with someone, loses them, then dedicates themselves to getting a job in the hopes that they can see the friend again some day
My headcanon for Izana speaking in anachronistic modern phrases is that he’s passively seeing glimpses of the far future, like he sees a vision of somebody in the 80s saying “totally tubular bro” and latches onto it Inspired by that one tumblr post where the Oracle of Delphi goes “they did surgery on a grape”
I think the Birthright cast *is* weird, but the plot of Conquest is so goddamn absurd that it shocks the player into hyper-awareness about how fuckin strange everything about it is lol. Tl;dr Conquest is kinda a Brecht play lol
Birthright is certainly no exception, I just don't care for the characters all that much to see any other potential weirdness outside of their one gimmick(with the exception of like Orochi, Takumi and Selkie impo), so yknow....about as weird as the average FE roster
Izana is unusual even by the standards of a world where magic is real, souls are quantifiable and it's not clear whether ancient dragons are gods or not. When the oracle-king of a nation is behaving oddly enough that other royalty are raising eyebrows, that's when you know he's Quite Strange.
People complain about Fates characters, but not Banjo-Kazooie? At least nobody in Fates rhymes Seriously though I think the real issue with Fates isn't the strangeness of the gimmicks, but the presence of those gimmicks in every single line the characters say, to the point where it's shocking for some characters to act normal at all. Engage handled this slightly better by giving most characters two gimmicks (fairy tales AND weird food!) so at least they feel a little more rounded, if still shallow.
As a Bernadetta obsessed nut I feel like I have to give my opinion here The clear distinction between Bernie and Peri is that Bernadetta is inherently more sympathetic due to the way she processes her trauma. Secluding herself and developing a sense of paranoia, whereas Peri became a callous killer. Both are an exaggerated form of what some people would realistically become from their trauma: emotionally detached, anxious, untrusting etc. Peri is so much worse because they make a joke out of murder, something extremely harmful and evil. Bernadetta is moreso a victim of 3H's writing trying to make her come off as funny, and she's pretty much harmless and has redeeming qualities/is a nice person
The issue I have with Bernie is it often feels like her trauma response is just a punchline. As someone with parental abuse, I don't feel represented, I feel mocked
@DaniDoyle I get that, but personally I can see that it isn't because she's a "bad character" and moreso the writers failed to take her seriously enough (perhaps to avoid too much overlap with someone like Marianne). The writers CAN take her seriously and when they do she's amazing, like with Alois/Dorothea/Seteth. The issue is that they often don't want to, but that isn't HER fault
Odin's one of the more extreme cases of an exaggerated version of a real personality, but that's definitely what he is. "What if a chuuni ended up in a fantasy world where he actually could have a cursed sword hand and/or dark magical powers, but he doesn't, but he pretends to / studies them, and everyone takes him seriously", basically. banjo-kazooie
Odin is probably one of the most well-adjusted characters in Fates, I'd argue. He's a chuuni theater kid grown-up in world where gods and magic are real, but is still self aware enough to know when to take a step back and drop the act if need be. It evens out more to where he likes being everyone's hype-man basically.
It would be interesting to tackle the binding blade, since it's kinda of the opposite to fates where the main complaint is that the characters are kinda of boring, but some members of the cast are definitely not normal. (Banjo Kazoie btw)
6:15 In fairness, a lot of abused kids tend to have that mindset if thinking they can reason and be rational to their abusers until being told otherwise and deserve better.
yeah, ive definelty heard the CQ as Abuse reading, and while there are some parts that (IMO Accidentally) end up being really good, theres a lot that really doesnt work within the abuse narrative for me, especially (but not exclusively) with the idea that Garon used to be good before Anankos possessed him
I think people don’t necessarily think fates characters are impossibly unrealistic, it’s just that a lot of them don’t seem very well rounded. Like they seem less like characters with interests, and more like interests with personalities if that makes sense. It’s a pretty surface level criticism but on the other hand, it’s not like supports are peak storytelling and they’re basically disconnected from the actual story. Like any emotional depth in Camilla outside of what we see of her in the story genuinely doesn’t matter in the actual story. Another point of comparison is FE3H, because the characters in FE3H get a lot more dialogue outside of supports in the monastery, which normalizes them I think.
So with Peri it was because a house servant killed her dad, and so they gave her an excuse to kill house servants, and then she killed so many that she grew desensitized to it and forgot that it had to do with her father. ☝️🤓
Leaving a second comment after finishing the video, for the algorithm: I'd enjoy seeing another video like this! Would you maybe consider going over the cast of my favorite Fire Emblem game, the neglected gem "Banjo Kazooie?"
both Arthur and Peri represent Western Graphic Novel Tropes. As being a reminiscence, it's totally valid to not place them in "writers are weird". They portrait the weirdness of western comic culture itself. Not shure if you could make the same argument for Camilla in terms of Eastern Comic Culture as well. But it feels more like an excuse to oversexualize her.
55:59 I was using this video as background audio while I was working so I didn’t have time to say more but The Awakening 3 approaching 30 is kinda like canon borderlining headcanon, mostly because when I initially made that statement I was under the assumption that in Hidden Truths 2 Corrin being kidnapped was a very recent development, but the actual wording gives like a vague period of time between Corrin being kidnapped and Hidden Truths happening, so it’s like it could be a couple years, could be almost a whole decade, it’s really vague. Regardless Selena looks like the type of person to go on Twitter and talk about how Croc actually sold around the same amount of copies as Banjo Kazooie and is yet completely forgotten in the public mind so the Awakening 3 pushing 30 is my stalwart headcanon now.
I would personally put Ophelia in the exaggerated tier since I view her chosen heroine quirk as something along the lines of her still roleplaying her favourite DnD character.
Was the music change for Keaton on purpose? Because i loved imagining a grown man do dog thing to this music Also you forgot to link the Soleil videos :)
I won't argue against wolf girl. But out of curiosity if the playerbase/devs were normal where would everyone in that tier go? On another note can't wait for the new FE 18: Fire Emblem - Shadow Banjo and the Kazooie of Light.
I mean they're not that weird. They're all within the realm of what would be accepted on bluesky, if you get what I mean. Not necessarily boring people but they wouldnt stir passion or hate from anyone else. Which is a bit of a shame for fictional characters
![Eminem - Fuel (feat. JID) [Official Lyric Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/t5H_CewqpKA/mqdefault.jpg)
Camilla is _definitely_ an odd character. Appearances outside of Fates have flanderized her to the point Corrin is ALL she talks about, when in Fates itself...she was kinda just _genuinely_ a psychopath, excluding the Corrin obsession every royal has here. She threatens Selena to cut off her legs if she ever tried to leave. her S-Support with Keaton implies she's _attracted_ to the scent of blood on him. She nearly decapitates Hinoka just to prove a point. She teases Laslow that she will experiment new torturing methods on him if he flirted with other women. And her attraction to Corrin goes to the point that she'd rather kill them and cradle their barely still-warm body than let them leave her behind.
Camilla's past hinges on the royal court of Nohr, where Garon's suitors were constantly attempting to kill each other, and each other's children _just_ to be the only ones left to inherit any sort of power. Camilla herself was used as little more than a card in a poker game, inhuman, unfeeling, cold. It's that trauma that shapes who she is in the present; someone who smothers Corrin who she sees herself in to an unhealthy degree, since there's nothing _normal_ about her mindset. It's actually very interesting to look into, and it's a shame that all her non-canon appearances never actually carry much of that over, instead just focusing on the fan-service. She is very much a great representation of Nohr; where pain, sorrow, desperation, and loneliness is as bountiful as blades of grass. This is also why many Nohrians are on-board with invading Hoshido. They have an immense surplus of resources and land, and their kingdom isn't constantly bathed in darkness and desolation. Ryoma himself is completely oblivious to the misery that Nohrians live through until he's brought face-to-face with it and told by Silas.
Anyway, Camilla DEFINITELY deserves to be significantly higher. The sexualization is weird, but she herself is stranger than most characters on this list; just being a more subtle Peri
And for the Velouria stuff, it's not really "codependent," since Keaton is _also_ weirded out by Velouria's obsession with him. To the point of being unsetled and trying to forcibly separate her from himself. I never knew people took Velouria's love to be carnal though. She's just a daddy's girl...and a mommy's girl too in her mother-supports with whoever Keaton married. She definitely does have dog-elements like Keaton does, and that manifests as her having severe separation-anxiety. And, yeah, there's the obvious Deeprealm stuff, where children were separated from their parents for years on end. Keaton definitely strikes me as one of the better fathers, since as long as he doesn't have _need_ to hide his emotions, he's a very friendly, thoughtful guy...just a little stupid. I love Keaton
Camilla makes me angry because she literally could've been an amazing character but the fates writers are so incompetent that they probably dont even know what the word subtly means
Idk I think Xander should be in "the writers are the weirdos" because that one support where he describes how much he likes destroying Banjo Kazooie cartridges in extensive detail always read to me as someone's weirdly specific fetish
What?
I had to bench him after that, I just couldn't in good conscious keep him on the same team as charlotte after he forced her to watch him smash all those cartridges for hours on end...
@FubblerCo. ngl that made me change him into a monk with a heart seal, i had to deploy him but just coudln't handle the idea of him having a weapon anywhere near a POTENTIAL banzo kazooie/tooie cartridge even, its hard ...
Something interesting about Effie was that her intensity was not as present in the Japanese version compared to Western releases, so it led me to headcanon that Effie is only that intense in combat, and outside of combat she's just kind of a normal, supportive gymbro.
I feel like Rosado and Forrest are similar but distinct characters to the point where I wouldn’t say one is just a strict upgrade from the other. As a male who likes collecting dresses, making jewelry, long hair (and doesn’t consider myself trans) I feel like I can relate to Forrest more than Rosado. This is because Rosado has very defined views on self expression and his appearance/character is somewhat a reflection of that sentiment whereas Forrest dresses the way he does simply because that’s what he’s always been drawn to. I don’t really have any profound opinions on self expression, I’m drawn to more effeminate things simply because it’s what I like.
Banjo Kazooie
Unironically, I like Corrin for the potential that they had as a character, and I feel like some of the grievances that people have with their decisions make sense if you view them through the lenses of trauma and neglect that makes up their childhood, even in their recent memory. I wish that Fates had properly committed to Corrin as a character without all excuses, but I'm also not sure that Fire Emblem as a series at the time could have properly provided the level of character and story that I think Corrin had the potential to excel in.
Yeah tbh I found myself relating to Corrin quite a bit. The meekness, lost memories, unsavory childhood. I can't bring myself to hate them
Silas is extremely funny to me because he’s literally Phoenix wright: young spiky haired child makes friend with someone, loses them, then dedicates themselves to getting a job in the hopes that they can see the friend again some day
So i can trigger Phoenix's vow of friendship by stabbing Edgeworth?
@ yeah, that’s why Phoenix got more powerful when defending edgeworth himself
My headcanon for Izana speaking in anachronistic modern phrases is that he’s passively seeing glimpses of the far future, like he sees a vision of somebody in the 80s saying “totally tubular bro” and latches onto it
Inspired by that one tumblr post where the Oracle of Delphi goes “they did surgery on a grape”
I think the Birthright cast *is* weird, but the plot of Conquest is so goddamn absurd that it shocks the player into hyper-awareness about how fuckin strange everything about it is lol.
Tl;dr Conquest is kinda a Brecht play lol
Birthright is certainly no exception, I just don't care for the characters all that much to see any other potential weirdness outside of their one gimmick(with the exception of like Orochi, Takumi and Selkie impo), so yknow....about as weird as the average FE roster
Yoooo Jackie Chan Adventures mentioned. Best video of the year
I'm also really sick of people who keep saying Velouria wants to fuck Banjo-Kazooie
Izana is unusual even by the standards of a world where magic is real, souls are quantifiable and it's not clear whether ancient dragons are gods or not. When the oracle-king of a nation is behaving oddly enough that other royalty are raising eyebrows, that's when you know he's Quite Strange.
People complain about Fates characters, but not Banjo-Kazooie? At least nobody in Fates rhymes
Seriously though I think the real issue with Fates isn't the strangeness of the gimmicks, but the presence of those gimmicks in every single line the characters say, to the point where it's shocking for some characters to act normal at all. Engage handled this slightly better by giving most characters two gimmicks (fairy tales AND weird food!) so at least they feel a little more rounded, if still shallow.
As a Bernadetta obsessed nut I feel like I have to give my opinion here
The clear distinction between Bernie and Peri is that Bernadetta is inherently more sympathetic due to the way she processes her trauma. Secluding herself and developing a sense of paranoia, whereas Peri became a callous killer. Both are an exaggerated form of what some people would realistically become from their trauma: emotionally detached, anxious, untrusting etc.
Peri is so much worse because they make a joke out of murder, something extremely harmful and evil. Bernadetta is moreso a victim of 3H's writing trying to make her come off as funny, and she's pretty much harmless and has redeeming qualities/is a nice person
The issue I have with Bernie is it often feels like her trauma response is just a punchline. As someone with parental abuse, I don't feel represented, I feel mocked
@DaniDoyle I get that, but personally I can see that it isn't because she's a "bad character" and moreso the writers failed to take her seriously enough (perhaps to avoid too much overlap with someone like Marianne). The writers CAN take her seriously and when they do she's amazing, like with Alois/Dorothea/Seteth. The issue is that they often don't want to, but that isn't HER fault
Odin's one of the more extreme cases of an exaggerated version of a real personality, but that's definitely what he is. "What if a chuuni ended up in a fantasy world where he actually could have a cursed sword hand and/or dark magical powers, but he doesn't, but he pretends to / studies them, and everyone takes him seriously", basically. banjo-kazooie
Odin is probably one of the most well-adjusted characters in Fates, I'd argue. He's a chuuni theater kid grown-up in world where gods and magic are real, but is still self aware enough to know when to take a step back and drop the act if need be. It evens out more to where he likes being everyone's hype-man basically.
I gotta say that Kaze should be the freakster, if for no other reason, cause of the weird infinite soup prank that he pulled on Sylas
the soup prank is peak
It would be interesting to tackle the binding blade, since it's kinda of the opposite to fates where the main complaint is that the characters are kinda of boring, but some members of the cast are definitely not normal. (Banjo Kazoie btw)
The problem with directing FE6 characters is there isn't much to talk about for a LOT of the cast, unfortunately.
6:15 In fairness, a lot of abused kids tend to have that mindset if thinking they can reason and be rational to their abusers until being told otherwise and deserve better.
yeah, ive definelty heard the CQ as Abuse reading, and while there are some parts that (IMO Accidentally) end up being really good, theres a lot that really doesnt work within the abuse narrative for me, especially (but not exclusively) with the idea that Garon used to be good before Anankos possessed him
I think people don’t necessarily think fates characters are impossibly unrealistic, it’s just that a lot of them don’t seem very well rounded.
Like they seem less like characters with interests, and more like interests with personalities if that makes sense.
It’s a pretty surface level criticism but on the other hand, it’s not like supports are peak storytelling and they’re basically disconnected from the actual story.
Like any emotional depth in Camilla outside of what we see of her in the story genuinely doesn’t matter in the actual story.
Another point of comparison is FE3H, because the characters in FE3H get a lot more dialogue outside of supports in the monastery, which normalizes them I think.
So with Peri it was because a house servant killed her dad, and so they gave her an excuse to kill house servants, and then she killed so many that she grew desensitized to it and forgot that it had to do with her father. ☝️🤓
Leaving a second comment after finishing the video, for the algorithm:
I'd enjoy seeing another video like this! Would you maybe consider going over the cast of my favorite Fire Emblem game, the neglected gem "Banjo Kazooie?"
Thanks for the idea! I don't see enough FE Tubers talk about Banjo Kazooie
Delicious...2 hours of fates character discussion... 😋
Velouria my beloved
pantsing someone, sure, normal. pantsing someone ON THE BATTLEFIELD?
Gonna kick my legs up, enjoy the Grit music, and watch this.
2 HOURS OF FATES DISCUSSION LETS GOOO
Valouria is one of my top 5 FE characters, so I appreciate any Valouria writing praise
both Arthur and Peri represent Western Graphic Novel Tropes. As being a reminiscence, it's totally valid to not place them in "writers are weird". They portrait the weirdness of western comic culture itself. Not shure if you could make the same argument for Camilla in terms of Eastern Comic Culture as well. But it feels more like an excuse to oversexualize her.
The weirdest thing about Banjo Kazoie is that time that they tried to kill Mario 64 in a support and that somehow increased their support rank.
55:59
I was using this video as background audio while I was working so I didn’t have time to say more but
The Awakening 3 approaching 30 is kinda like canon borderlining headcanon, mostly because when I initially made that statement I was under the assumption that in Hidden Truths 2 Corrin being kidnapped was a very recent development, but the actual wording gives like a vague period of time between Corrin being kidnapped and Hidden Truths happening, so it’s like it could be a couple years, could be almost a whole decade, it’s really vague.
Regardless Selena looks like the type of person to go on Twitter and talk about how Croc actually sold around the same amount of copies as Banjo Kazooie and is yet completely forgotten in the public mind so the Awakening 3 pushing 30 is my stalwart headcanon now.
I would personally put Ophelia in the exaggerated tier since I view her chosen heroine quirk as something along the lines of her still roleplaying her favourite DnD character.
Was the music change for Keaton on purpose? Because i loved imagining a grown man do dog thing to this music
Also you forgot to link the Soleil videos :)
I won't argue against wolf girl. But out of curiosity if the playerbase/devs were normal where would everyone in that tier go? On another note can't wait for the new FE 18: Fire Emblem - Shadow Banjo and the Kazooie of Light.
next video should be on archanea cast (/hj, i'm just playing fe11 for the first time rn)
anyways banjo kazooie from smash brothers ????
I mean they're not that weird. They're all within the realm of what would be accepted on bluesky, if you get what I mean. Not necessarily boring people but they wouldnt stir passion or hate from anyone else. Which is a bit of a shame for fictional characters
So Laslow is not a dog?
❤❤❤
55:59 oh shit thats me