Touch-roll-touch in a F-104
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- The legendary Belgian Air Force pilot Bill Ongena used to do something with his F-104G that even Lockheed and its test pilots deemed impossible: a touch-roll-touch with an airplane notorious for its lack of aerodynamic friendliness at low speeds.
WOW! The F-104 was very susceptible to inertia coupling due in part to its long slender fuselage. I am guessing that having the landing gear down actually helped tame the roll, much like a a figure skater puts their arms out to slow down a spin. That was one talented pilot!
F 104 it was in take off configuration and roll rate it was about half that in cruise configuration like many fast fighters (and this help to not have coupled inertia ) and flaps helped on the lift at this low speed
pdutube & F George- I want to know when will you two budding aero engineers will make “coupled inertia” observations about the lack of heavy and possibly full wing tip fuel tanks? Which do you suspect results in greater inertia- tricycle landing gear or wing tip fuel tanks? We have all observed that the control surfaces have sufficient authority to snap roll loaded fuel tanks during slow air show demonstrations. Stop denigrating the F-104. For something that was designed in six months by white guys with slide rules it’s a one hell of a flying machine.
@@Supernumerary F George don't have any comments about inertia coupling ,he said that the ailerons way of working with Landing gear down is halfway through the process.
Inertial coupling is a bigger issue at high altitudes and speed iirc.
ATC communications -
"Starfighter 87, cleared for takeoff, cleared for the option, runway 33"
Then
"Uhhh... Starfighter 87, that's not quite what I expected.... Taxi to parking"
Although four years old now, very underrated comment. The problem is that most non-aviation folks won`t get it.
So true XD
BOOOOOM lol Good one!
It was rwy 22r in Ebbe i think
I have seen this footage before. It was used in the TV series Les Chevaliers du Ciel about French pilots Tanguy and Laverdure of comic book fame.
If you look carefully in the beginning you can recognize the actor who played Michel Tanguy in orange flight suit in the middle of the screen shading his eyes with his hand.
But Bill Ongena was a fantastic pilot...
Initially they had downward firing ejection seats due to the tail, later they had upward firing ejection seats.
I can personally confirm that the edges of the wings are razor sharp. I didn't get a chance to look closely at the one at Pima, but I've seen another up-close and personal and it was sharp. One of the few times that those guitar calluses are useful: you can feel a razor's edge.
Heard they also had frequent gun jams.
I can agree to that - never had a collision with one, but I felt the sharpness nonetheless!
This Pilot has balls to do that with a F-104.
SS Exactly ! and then Lived, to brag about it ! Which is even more Increadable,
@@maximilliancunningham6091 hhhahahaha...i'm so sorry for all those pilots and their families bcs of this plane. Very brave and giant balls displayed by this guy !
Okay, how much brains does he have? Why do stupid and dangerous stunts just for bragging rights?
@@rj8288 shut up liberal 😎😎
No, crashes in the Luftwaffe were caused by mission they flew, not the aircraft.
@thekenemy It was indeed Susse Jacobs, who replaced Ongena after his retirement, who was killed while ejecting after a badly performed roll-touch-roll. The downwards ejecting seats were only installed in the early models of the F-104 and owned by the USAF. The rest, wisely, ejected upwards. I have no idea if there's a video of Jacobs tragic ending. Ciao Alex
the legendary tactical maneuver with a reputation like the cobra performed only by the most skilled ace combat 7 pilots 😂
damn ... every time i say " no, thats no possible " comes i guy that proves me wrong :(
America: why is the luftwaffe having so many fatalities with our high altitude interceptors?
Germany: Haha, ailerons go BRRRRRR
This is a Belgian F-104 & pilot, not a German one...
So the story of this is buried in the flight manual: if the landing gear is down, are allowed to rotate 10 degrees. With the gear up, the surfaces are limited to 5 degrees in flight.
Big Balls those Belgian fighter pilots, excepional training and proud to be one of the first airforces in the world and it shows!!!!!!!! One love for them! Belgian determination and execution follows! That's what makes the difference in the world! Work hard, play hard!!
one crashed in my village in 1965. Still looking for information about what happened... Not much to be found regarding the cause other than that it happened during a low level navigation flight
@@maarteneevers3648 The crash of FX-77 from 31 "Tiger" Squadron from Kleine Brogel AB on 27 Jan 1965 is listed as "cause unknown"
Les Chevaliers du Ciel, Michel Tanguy, Ernest Laverdure, I watched this series back in France when I was a kid.
The things we can do after a couple of Belgian beers...
unbelievable! very nice footage!
sur la photo montrant des pilotes et un acteur des Chevaliers du ciel on voit "Suss"a l'arrière droit en bleu, il fut l'un des pilotes des Diables Rouges, c'était un garçon fort sympathique et lorsqu'il racontait ses exploits ,ont était pliés en deux de rireencore un qui est partis trop tôt RIP
Roland Sturbelle sus jacobs
J'etais avec son fils a l'ecole..
I know people who have seen the accident ... there are pictures ...... my respects to the performance of SUS and BILL my friendships with their families
j-p hanart
I bet you that guy was sweating enough to fill a barrel, pulling on the stick like a branch on a cliff.
On another note, he also claimed the f-104's had rubber covers on their wings because people kept cutting themselves on the leading edges :)
After a heavy flight, the wings were so hot that they had a tendency to distortion. Those rubber blocks helped to keep them straight.
ohhhhhh this is just awesome in the truest sense!!!
Bill to execute this maneuver above the Flying Club Maubray in Belgium, he has even parachuted in from a light aircraft, I have the testimony of a mechanic bauvechin, friend me describes the atmosphere of this sad day.
Anyway even if the maneuver is Inut dangerous it is nevertheless impressive I repeat: it's Belgian! to yes
my son is a student glider pilot to Maubray ...
jp hanart
The dude at 0:23 is like "fuck this, I'm outta here"
😂 I thought the same thing !
Incredible!!!!Fantastic!!!
I wonder how that plane got its nickname, wow.
Good job!
Respect
Ни разу не видел мёртвую петлю на этом дрындулете. Чего так радуются работники данного аэропорта?)))
Pilot has balls with his F-104J Starfighter
Maj. Ongena got kill in a car crash in 1990.
@Alessandro Martens. I think that the German Starfighters - in the beginning - also ejected downwards.
Anyway it takes balls to do that
The F-104 was also notorious for the wings going from 4 inches to 2 inches so quickly that you could actually cut yourself on the trailing edge if you weren't careful.
its actually not a f104g but a sabca f104 belgian locally produced version under license (the european version of the f104 wich is actually different from the american one)
Must be Belgium!
Trigger is different...
Nut.
..guys that speak about not having balls don't know what they are talking about and have no clue of the extreme sensitivity you need to have to do this....
I guess Bill Ongena knows that super-secret ninja airframe / power plant / flight operation rule . . . DO NOT TEACH THE AIRPLANE HOW TO READ !
Those were different times, a lot of ego building in a post WW2 mentality. Peer pressure to do all kinds of risky stuff in order to "prove" Yourself. Horrible crashes amongst Young pilots each year as a result. Many unnecessary deaths, just for "fun" and ego, with no tactic value. But also top brass let it happen....see the B52 disaster.
I am sure if Chuck Yeager was able to pull this off you'd call it skilled flying. Having one of the best foreign test pilots do this must be reckless.
richbran10 what BS.... Post war...25 years after the end of the war is Post War, Well than the US is continuities POST WAR mentallity...
Pp
jp hanart > isn´t this Beauvechain airbase?
Correct.
Colonel Bil ENGENA QUI A FAIT CE TRUC POUR LA 1° X
j'ai oublié de dire que a ma connaissance, Bill Ongena appris de Bernard Neefs ce type de touch &roll, lui aussi est partis trop tôt, Je trouve curieux que l'on ne parle jamais de lui? et c'est pourtant lui qui a été envoyé aux US pour essayer les premiers 104
Merci!
Plane nuts...
Nous le voyons dans les chevaliers du ciel avec les lieutenant tanguy et laverdure
...quando ti annoi e ti fa schifo la vita. 😂
Flaps are set for Take off not for Landing
To much drag in landing configuration.
O M G
Who is better than Belgian Pilots?
Wappy Taw Polish pilots
en even nadien liep het toch verkeerd
marcel boogaerts wat ging er verkeerd?
EVDE KSP Op 2 september 1968 werd hetzelfde manoeuvre ingeoefend voor een airshow display door Kapitein-vliegenier François 'Sus' Jacobs (350e squadron, 1e Wing), echter tijdens de 'roll' weigerde de after-burner dienst, zonder de welke het onmogelijk is om de 104 tijdens dit manoeuvre in de lucht te houden. Jacobs probeerde er nog uit te springen, maar was reeds te laag, met fatale gevolgen. Na dit ongeval werd dit manoeuvre officieel verboden door de Belgische Luchtmacht.
Nikko Y. Oei, dat is niet bepaald fijn. Dus mag de f-16 dat nu ook niet doen op airshows?
Jawel, een F16 en trouwens de meeste vliegtuigen van de generatie ná de F104, hadden zero-zero schietstoelen. Dit betekent zero hoogte en zero snelheid. Het probleem met de generatie schietstoelen van de generatie F104 en daarvoor was dat ze enkel echt goed werkten vanaf een bepaalde hoogte. Snelheid was niet zo van belang (denk ik), alhoewel bij hoge snelheden kon het hoge staartvlak van de F104 voor nare gevolgen zorgen (de stoel en/of piloot raken).
Met een F16 heeft men dat nooit gedaan omdat het ondertussen verboden was zoeen dingen te doen. Het zou op zich makkelijker zijn met de F16 als ze het zouden proberen dan het was met een F104 omdat de 104 gewoon verschrikkelijk listig was in dat soort dingen en bijlange niet zo precies te besturen was als een F16 met fly by wire en beter design.
Dat ze het deden met een 104 is gewoon te gek voor woorden, maar toch deden ze het. Wat het talent van de piloot, maar ook roekeloosheid bewijst.
Guys with big balls don't have to do this.
I'm Belgian and children of the 60s was one of my dreams Seeing this fighter pilot is okay to have put this video online ...
the memorable Ongena with Jacobs .. the U.S. not understand that it does not come from home ...
jphanart
This guy was light for this op. What remained in the tanks must have been close to minimum fuel. That light a load in a -G model sans tiptanks had to have been one swift kick! No doubt, these phases of flight executed as they were, are within the aircraft's flight envelope but not endorsed in any flight manual.
Wasn't that the legendary Slivers Team in the crowd watching?
1968 in ebbe
Geee-zhus... okay, that guy knew how to handle a -104...
Most F-104 Airshows were that short werent they lol
I saw an F104 pilot pull off an incredible stunt, jumping out of the cockpit as the plane touched down, then dashing back and taking off again.
I love this. And such precision
According to my old Dutch teacher who was a ground crew member for the Belgian starfighters, the idea was to do this as close to the ground as possible. He claims to have witnessed a horrible crash where the pilot for some reason ejected during this manoeuvre and got launched into the ground. This must have been Cpt. Susse Jacobs. I don't know whether these f-104's ejected upwards or downwards. Some internet research suggest there might be footage of this crash, but I can't find it.
The A models ejected down. www.ejectionsite.com/f104seat.htm In the end I think all NATO users replaced the seats with Martin Baker 0-0 seats, Canada and Germany for sure did. As the RCAF No. 1 Air Division later No. 1 Canadian Air Group (1 CAG) pilots said "A 104 makes a tall hole". If you lose the engine at any altitude it has the aerodynamics of a brick. One Canadian Forces pilot en-route from CFB Cold Lake to CFB Winnipeg became famous for trying not one but three restarts when the 'lost the fire' at altitude. At 8,000 feet he ejected deciding that "his contract with the government to operate the aircraft had expired.
Ed Letain l
They were not good gliders. At high altitudes the best glide speed was near transonic. Without the benefit of BLC (boundary layer control) accomplished by sending bleed air from the compressor to holes on the upper wing surface to simulate a fatter airfoil as was done when landing, the optimum glide angle was approaching vertical.
Dudes rock
WOW!
When ?
that is fucking solid
I know people who have seen the accident ... there are pictures ...... my respects to the performance of SUS and BILL my friendships with their families
I swear that it was a russian piloting this vessel. No euro-american would do that in front of cameras :)
Es español. Mira la escarapela.🇪🇸👍
This is how you do it, Germany.
Oh my god. Really? Do you even know that the German Air Force lost 116 Pilots during the servicetime of the F-104? And i think i do not even need to talk about their family members. This is quite irreverent from you. Think abou it, before you write such a bullshit again. I have rarely read such a shit.
Big balls of steel
It has been said, but not confirmed, that his balls of steel were so big that his aircraft's magnetic compass would deviate up to 180 degrees whenever he was in the cockpit !