make his summons be immune to steal as a bonus. BM is a massive meme/waste of gold at this point. 3 of 4 skills are countered by dispel while ultimate never works. He just goes melee mode, dies and does nothing. At least Farseer has 2 damage skills so even if wolves are dispelled he can still do something + attack from range. Keeper has aura + also range attacks
Stampede is best casted backwards (as that’s how tinker from dota is used to cast max value march of the machine.) The lizards will spawn further back and hit the enemies much easier
The discussion about the MMR system is great, people need to know that there are always pros and cons for various systems. While the uncertainty principle might seem unfair to someone who just wants to climb, the goal of this design is to rapidly distribute players according to their skill level. Without this you would have more frequent occurrences of players with mismatched skill level, which often makes the less skilled players quit.
Direct Strike is 3v3 so you only need one guy that doesn't know what he is doing and you win or lose also it's pretty random. One Voodoo can become a stack and the game is over. That's why the Ranking doesn't really matter, just play it for fun. It's too random to be treated as a competitive gamemode.
I agree that it is too random to be treated as a competitive game mode, but I disagree that the fact that your teammates matter makes the ranking matter less. It's the law of large numbers, players that don't know what they're doing, disconnects, all those things are to your advantage, as long as you're not the person who frequently disconnects or doesn't know what they're doing. There's always 3 random opponents and always 2 random teammates. The chance for one guy to not know what they're doing is 1.5 times as likely to occur on the enemy team than it is to occur on your team, unless you're the person that doesn't know what they're doing. Yes, you might be unlucky and get new players a bunch in a row, but as long as you keep playing, it'll always average out.
@@dd7896 You can't apply the law of large numbers to games like this unless you're totally no-lifing the game. It would take hundreds of hours to reach a reasonable distribution, assuming most games are between 30 and 60 minutes. A casual player with an hour to play every night might only reach that after years of play, so they'll never experience a meaningfully large number of games to make their real-life game outcomes reflect the statistical distribution of all games.
@@thelastdwemer the sentiment still stands. his main point was that all it takes is a mentality shift for you to enjoy the game. people are out here complaining like it's their livelihood when it isn't. its ok to be frustrated but too often it crosses into vile territory. as soon as you take it personally, its time to take a break and do something that isnt stressing you out.
Man I really wish Grubby would spend more time keeping the camera in the center and watching the battles, even when he's not fighting. So many interesting fights go down while he's just in his base moving units around in circles, and not actually doing anything :(
Heros in DS have much less HP than in standard 1v1, thererfore khadgars gem of health is much more valuable, at lvl 1 it gives you around 60% more HP, while costing cca the same as talisman of evasion.
Khadgar's gem is a trap! don't get it! It gives 225 hp for 250 gold, but the +10 strength gauntlets will give you 250hp +5 hp regen and +10 damage if you're a strength hero. even if you're not a strength hero it's just outright better since it gives more hp for the same cost AND regen.
@@juliankanzuki2013 Nope. Strength gives +15 hp in DS. So belt of strength is only 150 hp. The spirit is there, but you should at least double check your own claims in-game before saying things like this. This is how misinformation spreads.
@@thesustraveler interesting. So a hero would have to last 15 seconds for the +10 strength gauntlets to outpace the gem of health. Which uh. Isn’t happening early game for sure.
@@ThisIsntARUclipsr Usually not early game, but not unheard of late game especially if you build other tanky items. Still, is it worth it? Kinda debatable I suppose. But on average it probably not
The problem with BM is if you watch the video he's forced to put him all the way in the back, which means he's doing zero DPS. Grubby invested over 1,000g in items to try and make it work just for it to linger in the back, have his pets get casually dispelled and stampede is no where near as powerful as Star Fall. On top of that it still dies super fast compared to other strength heroes like TC or Scarab Lord. Thanks for Trying to make it work Grubs!
The thing about MMR/ELO systems is that it's true purpose is to work towards equilibrium - where you are winning about half of your games, and losing the other half. This is what it is ALWAYS working towards, and when you have players like Grubby who are sitting around a 55% winrate - it is because he is still improving at a rate faster than the system can balance him out. All players who are truly working to get better and absorbing the information they see will sit above a 50% winrate for a little while. Eventually you will still hit your equilibrium 'wall' - where your growth does not outstrip the systems ability to balance you out. This is where practice and effort comes into play if you want to continue to climb. Hundreds of hours of practice and games and you will eventually get there. Once you do hit that point where you can't seem to get above a certain MMR, it is because you have hit your skill plateau. Too many people don't want to look at their flaws and where they can improve, instead blaming bad teammates for them being 'stuck' where they are - it is never their fault, and that is why they will stay stuck at the MMR/ELO for longer than they maybe should. There is a certain amount of innate skill that can help you in RTS Strategy games like this, even autobattlers - but even Clem in Starcraft; or even Grubby in WC3 spent countless hundreds of hours - 12+ hours a day in Grubby's case, getting better - truly looking at what they can do better and improving. If you want to get better, and increase your MMR, accept that *occasionally* - a loss is outside of your control due to mistakes of your teammates, but not every game you lose can be blamed on your teammates. They are most likely of similar skill to you in most cases - take responsibility and look to what you can do better. The true veteran is always assuming there is more they can learn, things they could do better, and never assumes that they are doing the best that they can. The system doesn't just match you with players with higher MMR than you if you are doing 'too well' - it also works the other way, matching you with lower MMR teammates to balance out your win rate if you happen to be over 51% --- but if you win those games the system stacked against you, you will get a larger MMR increase in most cases - but you'll also lose more when you fail the systems 'test'.
Grubby, would you enjoy being able to upgrade units in this similar to mechabelum? I think it could be neat. Maybe too different though. Backpack upgrade could be neat with a few item bans, evasion would be BIS
@Grubby correct me if I am wrong, but why not simply get any damn orb to enable BM attacking air at distance like in older matches? Enemies had Destros and Gargs and this might have worked until those are gone at least?
Seeing as Rexxar only has summons and nothing else to his name, an increase in health for them so they're not instantly stolen/dispelled would be good lol. 3 mediocre summons as his only abilities is kinda cruel as it is 😂 need a dedicated F tier just for him
Hey Grubby. I have one question. Its possible to watch replay of this game ? From some reason i have strange layout and i dont see untis etc. Only chat a map.
They could make it so that you can't quit in the first 5 min of warcraft that way if some expert wants to get low mmr on melee to farm noobs he/she will have to spend a lot of time doing that thus reducing the amount of people that would be willing to do that.
Stampede last very long and has huge range. You need to cast stampede against the first wave remnant he still be channeling it against next wave. You use it like tornado.
I know abilities are obviously critical but why do you almost never invest even a single point into stats boost esp for melee so they at least got a bit of easier time, what’s your thoughts on it?
I noticed this when I decided to start playing Starcraft 2 again after 14 years... All of a sudden everybody in Bronze League is kind of... good, compared to me at least, when I used to get to Platinum League and I just logged in 14 years later to feel superior to some noobs who... turned out to have a lot more experience. 😅 I lost 10/12 games, only won against cannon rushes, because I knew enough about the game to know how NOT to react... I wish the MMR system had just thrown me to the bottom of the ladder after the first 7 losses, maybe then I wouldn't have quit in frustration. How do they expect new players to go on the ladder when they gotta lose 15+ games to be placed well?
The system only sucks for people who take mmo as their worth as a person, who try to "rank up" while getting 4 mmr per win- instead of just having good games
Yeah but after 100 games my MMR is around 1500 and new players that are unranked are matched with me, which means if I get 2 new players in team and other team has no knew players I lose, if enemy team has 2 new players and I have silver or gold teammates I win, there is not much I can do it's random game result
well Grubby said there are more direct strike games than normal wc3 games on w3champions, so maybe the bronze league players all started playing direct strike
I've had (minor) success with Beastmaster playing him, a bunch of priests, 5 items to make him tank more and most importantly a cloak of flames. Him running into a million units trying to cast stampede while buffed out of his mind and getting healed from everywhere was more effective than any DH with Immolation Aura I've seen. The fact that I had an archmage that was level 8 before the beastmaster, my first hero was, helped immensely and most likely was more useful than the cloak of flames beastmaster, but I think cloak of flames is a legit item on him due to his weird targeting behavior. I also think 3 Beastmasters would've been better than one, because if three beastmasters try to cast stampede, they would've at the very least split the damage they'd take onto three heroes instead of just one, but that's more of a fun thought experiment than something anybody should ever try.
You will be so behind that your teammates will flame you. Rush three heroes does nothing beside giving your opponent advantage. Because your hero will share xp with each other, make it hard to get to lvl 6 where a hero learned their ultimate skill. And that above is only possible if your heroes somehow managed to kill something before died. Because most of the time they would just instantly die before the massive army of your enemies.
Responding to your opening point about the starting ranking mmr, could the developer add an option for the player to select their skill level so it slightly affects their starting mmr for their placement matches ? Example: noob - 1100, normal - 1500 ? Do you see any problems with something like that ?
Beastmaster is bad because dispel exists. However, if your opponent doesn't have dispel, or is bad so they don't get a lot of it when they see a beastmaster, it becomes S tier. That's why Beastmaster is completely busted in classic when you play vs Undead, because they don't get dispel before t3. Same reason why keeper is bad, because the only thing he really excels at is early tempo with force of nature, which gets completely shut down if they got Shaman or Druid. Tranquility is just a way worse BBV. Thorns is... okay, but not worth a hero slot.
how to buff beastmaster: getting ranks in summons reduces cd and mana cost as well as increase the stats and abilities. simple. otherwise it's an f tier, not d tier champ.
Found the tirade about MMR at the beginning incredible distracting when I have no idea what cut/copy&paste map from 1000 years ago you are playing on. Maybe you could edit a bit of that out since that was for your stream audience not us YT viewers who aren't reading your chat and frankly don't want to. Editing could be the difference between 347K and the moon my friend, so please don't be lazy.
![[LEGENDARY] This game's start is a DISASTER! - WC3 Direct Strike](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LH82wPD20_Y/mqdefault.jpg)
I'll get our main programmer to change the cast range of the Stampede, because it's sad to watch :D
could be something like when it casts it, it goes x distance horizontally back towards your own base.
Can u add me to game as penguin
make his summons be immune to steal as a bonus. BM is a massive meme/waste of gold at this point. 3 of 4 skills are countered by dispel while ultimate never works. He just goes melee mode, dies and does nothing. At least Farseer has 2 damage skills so even if wolves are dispelled he can still do something + attack from range. Keeper has aura + also range attacks
@@lelol83 also all ranged heroes hit 6 way way faster since they are not actively trying to suicide
Stampede is best casted backwards (as that’s how tinker from dota is used to cast max value march of the machine.)
The lizards will spawn further back and hit the enemies much easier
The discussion about the MMR system is great, people need to know that there are always pros and cons for various systems. While the uncertainty principle might seem unfair to someone who just wants to climb, the goal of this design is to rapidly distribute players according to their skill level.
Without this you would have more frequent occurrences of players with mismatched skill level, which often makes the less skilled players quit.
I love the Beastmaster, the way he does a little dance before casting Stampede is so endearing
"Gaming journalist or talented player" xD
Direct Strike is 3v3 so you only need one guy that doesn't know what he is doing and you win or lose also it's pretty random. One Voodoo can become a stack and the game is over. That's why the Ranking doesn't really matter, just play it for fun. It's too random to be treated as a competitive gamemode.
Agree
I agree that it is too random to be treated as a competitive game mode, but I disagree that the fact that your teammates matter makes the ranking matter less. It's the law of large numbers, players that don't know what they're doing, disconnects, all those things are to your advantage, as long as you're not the person who frequently disconnects or doesn't know what they're doing.
There's always 3 random opponents and always 2 random teammates. The chance for one guy to not know what they're doing is 1.5 times as likely to occur on the enemy team than it is to occur on your team, unless you're the person that doesn't know what they're doing.
Yes, you might be unlucky and get new players a bunch in a row, but as long as you keep playing, it'll always average out.
@@dd7896 You can't apply the law of large numbers to games like this unless you're totally no-lifing the game. It would take hundreds of hours to reach a reasonable distribution, assuming most games are between 30 and 60 minutes. A casual player with an hour to play every night might only reach that after years of play, so they'll never experience a meaningfully large number of games to make their real-life game outcomes reflect the statistical distribution of all games.
@@thelastdwemer the sentiment still stands. his main point was that all it takes is a mentality shift for you to enjoy the game. people are out here complaining like it's their livelihood when it isn't. its ok to be frustrated but too often it crosses into vile territory. as soon as you take it personally, its time to take a break and do something that isnt stressing you out.
Man I really wish Grubby would spend more time keeping the camera in the center and watching the battles, even when he's not fighting. So many interesting fights go down while he's just in his base moving units around in circles, and not actually doing anything :(
thats why he is bronze mmr
@@cooler14270lmao he’s adept.
@@cooler14270😂
It's an autobattler, calling them interesting fights is... a choice.
Triple Beastmaster missed opportunity, so bad.
I'm honored to be called a grubling.
It's a big responsibility to carry such a name.
Thank Gubby, now I know Beast Master is useless af 👍
BM might be coded to ult in center, that's why he always takes a big scenic walk when you place him on flanks. xD
He's not D tier. He's F-tier.
I watched the whole video, to answer the title's question: yes
He should be in F tier
Heros in DS have much less HP than in standard 1v1, thererfore khadgars gem of health is much more valuable, at lvl 1 it gives you around 60% more HP, while costing cca the same as talisman of evasion.
Khadgar's gem is a trap! don't get it!
It gives 225 hp for 250 gold, but the +10 strength gauntlets will give you 250hp +5 hp regen and +10 damage if you're a strength hero.
even if you're not a strength hero it's just outright better since it gives more hp for the same cost AND regen.
@@juliankanzuki2013 Nope. Strength gives +15 hp in DS. So belt of strength is only 150 hp.
The spirit is there, but you should at least double check your own claims in-game before saying things like this. This is how misinformation spreads.
@@thesustraveler
interesting. So a hero would have to last 15 seconds for the +10 strength gauntlets to outpace the gem of health. Which uh. Isn’t happening early game for sure.
@@juliankanzuki2013 nope.
@@ThisIsntARUclipsr Usually not early game, but not unheard of late game especially if you build other tanky items.
Still, is it worth it? Kinda debatable I suppose. But on average it probably not
Love your content bro reminds me of when I played warcraft instead of getting lifelong childhood trauma
The problem with BM is if you watch the video he's forced to put him all the way in the back, which means he's doing zero DPS. Grubby invested over 1,000g in items to try and make it work just for it to linger in the back, have his pets get casually dispelled and stampede is no where near as powerful as Star Fall. On top of that it still dies super fast compared to other strength heroes like TC or Scarab Lord. Thanks for Trying to make it work Grubs!
I watch grubby's videos to sleep, its so calming helps me sleep everytime, zzz....
55:39 so satisfying.
really noticed that there are less ads on your videoa recently and i truly do appreciate it. makes the content much more watchable :)
the hero imbalance in this game is so huge that if by casual luck the opponent gets better heroes, they are instantly very ahead
In this game he can just build Brewmaster
All about choice
His activation logic for Stampede seems so busted. Basically needs to be in the center of a large enemy group.
Oh crap siege turtles! I definitely missed when grubby amassed the money for that :D
Loving the direct strike content
Hilarious stampede F's. :D
The thing about MMR/ELO systems is that it's true purpose is to work towards equilibrium - where you are winning about half of your games, and losing the other half. This is what it is ALWAYS working towards, and when you have players like Grubby who are sitting around a 55% winrate - it is because he is still improving at a rate faster than the system can balance him out. All players who are truly working to get better and absorbing the information they see will sit above a 50% winrate for a little while. Eventually you will still hit your equilibrium 'wall' - where your growth does not outstrip the systems ability to balance you out.
This is where practice and effort comes into play if you want to continue to climb. Hundreds of hours of practice and games and you will eventually get there.
Once you do hit that point where you can't seem to get above a certain MMR, it is because you have hit your skill plateau. Too many people don't want to look at their flaws and where they can improve, instead blaming bad teammates for them being 'stuck' where they are - it is never their fault, and that is why they will stay stuck at the MMR/ELO for longer than they maybe should.
There is a certain amount of innate skill that can help you in RTS Strategy games like this, even autobattlers - but even Clem in Starcraft; or even Grubby in WC3 spent countless hundreds of hours - 12+ hours a day in Grubby's case, getting better - truly looking at what they can do better and improving.
If you want to get better, and increase your MMR, accept that *occasionally* - a loss is outside of your control due to mistakes of your teammates, but not every game you lose can be blamed on your teammates. They are most likely of similar skill to you in most cases - take responsibility and look to what you can do better. The true veteran is always assuming there is more they can learn, things they could do better, and never assumes that they are doing the best that they can.
The system doesn't just match you with players with higher MMR than you if you are doing 'too well' - it also works the other way, matching you with lower MMR teammates to balance out your win rate if you happen to be over 51% --- but if you win those games the system stacked against you, you will get a larger MMR increase in most cases - but you'll also lose more when you fail the systems 'test'.
Grubby, would you enjoy being able to upgrade units in this similar to mechabelum?
I think it could be neat. Maybe too different though.
Backpack upgrade could be neat with a few item bans, evasion would be BIS
Sor-Sa-Ress, where I always say more Sor-s'Ress. It's always interesting hearing different ways people pronounce things.
@Grubby correct me if I am wrong, but why not simply get any damn orb to enable BM attacking air at distance like in older matches? Enemies had Destros and Gargs and this might have worked until those are gone at least?
Seeing as Rexxar only has summons and nothing else to his name, an increase in health for them so they're not instantly stolen/dispelled would be good lol. 3 mediocre summons as his only abilities is kinda cruel as it is 😂 need a dedicated F tier just for him
Hey Grubby. I have one question. Its possible to watch replay of this game ? From some reason i have strange layout and i dont see untis etc. Only chat a map.
i guess the way AI moves before BeastMaster‘s Ult，because the AI try to cover most of enemy with Ult.
They could make it so that you can't quit in the first 5 min of warcraft that way if some expert wants to get low mmr on melee to farm noobs he/she will have to spend a lot of time doing that thus reducing the amount of people that would be willing to do that.
Stampede last very long and has huge range.
You need to cast stampede against the first wave remnant he still be channeling it against next wave.
You use it like tornado.
ahhh, you can bloodlust mortasrs i seeee.
I know abilities are obviously critical but why do you almost never invest even a single point into stats boost esp for melee so they at least got a bit of easier time, what’s your thoughts on it?
Hope the matches with that drek thar guy drop, redemption for BM
How do i play it? buy reforged and how do u change from battle net to the server u are playing?
Ranged unit comparisons
No upgrades / third upgrade (skill upgrades)
HH:
DPS per $: .11/.15 (.16/.22 for 12s)
EHP per $: 1.1/1.67 (1.39/2.11)
Range: 450
Archer:
DPS per $.10/.14 (.12 / .16)
EHP per $: .76 / 1.16
Range: 500 (700)
(mount hypo)
Fiend
DPS per $: .12 / .16
EHP per $: 1.1 / 1.67
Range: 550
(Web, burrow)
Rifles
DPS / $: .12 / .16
EHP / $: .94 / 1.27
Range: 400 (600)
Dryad
DPS per $: .06 / .09 (.09/ .11 on a single target)
EHP per $: 1.02 / 1.56
Range: 500
(Dispel, *slow poison, magic immunity)
Lategame: Headhunter > archer > fiend > rifle
(Depending on how valuable range is)
Early game: Fiend > rifle = headhunter > archer
Ignoring range: Headhunter > fiend > rifle > archer
They all have pretty much the same dps / $ lategame, except for headhunters (more with berserker)
Personal preferences: Headhunter > Fiend > Archer > Rifle
Normal 1v1 W3 videos coming back any time soon?
In Direct Strike, Crypt Lord is was Beast Master wish to be.
I noticed this when I decided to start playing Starcraft 2 again after 14 years... All of a sudden everybody in Bronze League is kind of... good, compared to me at least, when I used to get to Platinum League and I just logged in 14 years later to feel superior to some noobs who... turned out to have a lot more experience. 😅
I lost 10/12 games, only won against cannon rushes, because I knew enough about the game to know how NOT to react... I wish the MMR system had just thrown me to the bottom of the ladder after the first 7 losses, maybe then I wouldn't have quit in frustration. How do they expect new players to go on the ladder when they gotta lose 15+ games to be placed well?
betteridge's law strikes again
probably doing more damage auto attacking than using stampede
triple beastmaster new meta
Nahhhh this wasnt a fair test! you didnt go bear first!
The system only sucks for people who take mmo as their worth as a person, who try to "rank up" while getting 4 mmr per win- instead of just having good games
i could watch you play BM and be dissapointed of him 24 hours a day.
Beast master is nice summoning hero
Yeah but after 100 games my MMR is around 1500 and new players that are unranked are matched with me, which means if I get 2 new players in team and other team has no knew players I lose, if enemy team has 2 new players and I have silver or gold teammates I win, there is not much I can do it's random game result
grubby i love your videos
BeastMaster ❌
Beitch Master ✅
is this game inside Warcraft 3 Reforged?
Why no ranged orb asap to keep hero allive
Any normal wc3 video or bronze league?
well Grubby said there are more direct strike games than normal wc3 games on w3champions, so maybe the bronze league players all started playing direct strike
Maybe the Beast master would be better if he was ranged, not melee
that beastmaster was a paid actor
Those Beastmasters are paid actors. Bruh havr like 3 consecutive BeastMaster choices.
Spent so much gold on BM only to complain how useless BM is the whole game anyway. Could have had panda farseer, panda.
Made wyverns = win
COINCIDENCE????
I've had (minor) success with Beastmaster playing him, a bunch of priests, 5 items to make him tank more and most importantly a cloak of flames. Him running into a million units trying to cast stampede while buffed out of his mind and getting healed from everywhere was more effective than any DH with Immolation Aura I've seen.
The fact that I had an archmage that was level 8 before the beastmaster, my first hero was, helped immensely and most likely was more useful than the cloak of flames beastmaster, but I think cloak of flames is a legit item on him due to his weird targeting behavior.
I also think 3 Beastmasters would've been better than one, because if three beastmasters try to cast stampede, they would've at the very least split the damage they'd take onto three heroes instead of just one, but that's more of a fun thought experiment than something anybody should ever try.
Your videos really make me wanna buy warcraft 3, but im afraid itll just go f2p in november and I wont get a refund
What happens if you build 3 heroes first of the game?
You will be so behind that your teammates will flame you. Rush three heroes does nothing beside giving your opponent advantage. Because your hero will share xp with each other, make it hard to get to lvl 6 where a hero learned their ultimate skill.
And that above is only possible if your heroes somehow managed to kill something before died. Because most of the time they would just instantly die before the massive army of your enemies.
This is hilarious
So you are telling me you are to be blamed for DS the MMR problems! XD
Beatmaster actually just retatded
Responding to your opening point about the starting ranking mmr, could the developer add an option for the player to select their skill level so it slightly affects their starting mmr for their placement matches ? Example: noob - 1100, normal - 1500 ? Do you see any problems with something like that ?
Down to F tier he goes
imagine if u can change skin in classic war craft 3 ... mmm
Technically you can change skin of some heroes, it works on classic graphic also, not just with reforged. Female DM and female DK for example 😂
Damn im as old as warcraft 3
well I have the same birthday as war II, so.. yea
You say that like you are old. Both of you! Stop making me feel old!!!!!!
Just 9 min😅 ... And 216 views dammmnn
Mine has only just been released 1min
@@jeremyzang8802 thats more wierd now 😅
Now i am watching like 12:42 min by now
NO VIEWS ? Unbelievable.
Criminal really.
channel in decline
I know right wtf
0 veiws in 36 seconds? bro fell off, fr fr
Beastmaster is bad because dispel exists. However, if your opponent doesn't have dispel, or is bad so they don't get a lot of it when they see a beastmaster, it becomes S tier. That's why Beastmaster is completely busted in classic when you play vs Undead, because they don't get dispel before t3. Same reason why keeper is bad, because the only thing he really excels at is early tempo with force of nature, which gets completely shut down if they got Shaman or Druid. Tranquility is just a way worse BBV. Thorns is... okay, but not worth a hero slot.
how to buff beastmaster: getting ranks in summons reduces cd and mana cost as well as increase the stats and abilities. simple. otherwise it's an f tier, not d tier champ.
Hi man pls stop talking like Parrot... I've had a headache.
Oh my God, please go back to playing normal Warcraft 3 again or just make another channel for this map. Please.
Found the tirade about MMR at the beginning incredible distracting when I have no idea what cut/copy&paste map from 1000 years ago you are playing on. Maybe you could edit a bit of that out since that was for your stream audience not us YT viewers who aren't reading your chat and frankly don't want to. Editing could be the difference between 347K and the moon my friend, so please don't be lazy.
17 seconds and 0 views, bro fell off 💀
Should be named wipe all not star fall