BHT Review: Leica M-D Typ 262
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- Опубликовано: 22 июн 2016
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The new Leica M-D Typ 262. For many it's confusing. A $6000 USD digital camera without the convenience of an LCD back to view your images? Even for Leica fans, how is the screen-less M-D $800 more expensive than the standard M Typ 262 with a screen? The biggest question for me is if the M-D can take great pictures with only 'The Essentials of Photography'? My quick answer is yes. Enjoy my latest review of this controversial camera and you'll get my long answer.
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The whole point is not to have a screen for those of us who don't need it. I wouldn't buy it with WiFi or a screen.
second that, i'd even remove the continuous shooting mode.
The Apple iphone of cameras. Take away functions and increase the price
The M-D is my first digital M and I love it. I've shot M3, M2 & M6 for years and it was a fairly seamless transition. Not for everyone, surely, but for those that like a simpler experience it is bliss. BTW, it shoots compressed DNG, not uncompressed. Still lossless, just a little smaller.
Congrats on the M-D! Yes if you're coming from film, it's a seamless transition for sure. I was shooting lots of film at the time of shooting with it and I too found it very simple to shoot. I do hope for an M10 version in the future, and perhaps a single connector on the bottom for access to the firmware (date-time adjust, shutter count, etc.).
Great review as always. Keep em coming BHT!
I think with the next firmware update, Leica should limit ISO changes to every 36 shots. Better film feel. :-)
This is my DREAM LEICA camera. I love the complete simplicity of this range finder style camera (my favorite).. There is a certain "purity" in it's design (or non-design) that I am absolutely in love with. Especially in this era of so many bells + whistles. Ahh, maybe one day!
watching again, BHT, and still dreaming. (+ such a great review again)!
I think you missed the whole point of the camera. Its supposed to be exactly like a film camera. If you want all the things you have mentioned, just buy the 240 and don't look at the LCD. Leica prices have never been too logical. Its a Leica after all.
I thought the same thing... not about the M-D, since I haven't handled one, but the M9 and M 240. The M240 has more features, but if I don't want to use them I can chose to ignore them. Which is only partly true. Compared to the M9 the M240 feels a lot more digital and the extra buttons do get in the way sometimes. I have missed shots because of that. It's true, that I will probably get better and more used to the camera over time ... and Live-View can be helpful, but why get used to something one doesn't need. The M-D is all I would need for myself when shooting street. For models though it's kind of a pain, because they do want to see....
As I mentioned, I loved shooting with it and unlike many who've handled the camera, I had it for over a week and actually shot with it. The concept is great. My biggest complaint is that there is no connectivity to even set date, time, firmware update, or even see shutter count. As I mentioned, even the ability to preview can just be just that, no image transfer but just to look via wifi or direct connect, thus forgoing the need to pull the memory card out. But the ability to directly connect to the camera and update firmware, change date and time based on time zones, change the RAW type (uncompressed or lossless), change the timer length (8 sec or 2 sec), change exposure comp from 1/3, 1/2 or full stops, etc. these things would be practical. No matter how much people want the M-D to feel like a film camera, in the end it's digital. There's a memory card and a battery. As for shooting the M240 without looking, it won't work because something as simple as changing the ISO is button and LCD driven. Plus, having the screen will alway inevitably tempt the shooter to look. I justify the pricing based on Leica's business model. They have less than 2000 world wide employees, they hand build their cameras in Germany, and they have very limited production runs. Canon has almost 200,000 employees. Production runs are probably 1000 times that of Leica. Even if they built the exact same camera, Leica would be twice as expensive. This is why Leica has to create a luxury product. If they tried to compete with Sony, Canon, Nikon directly, they would be destroyed.
I think the point is that it can't be exactly like a film camera, because it's digital there are certain things that can't be abstracted away, for example, the date. People don't change it much, so it's easy to see how one might be nitpicking, but if you travel a lot you are gonna be frustrated every time. That is something I never had to think about with my M2 but now with this I would have to.
One option is to have the date being set by a gps module so it would require zero user intervention, making it more like film, but with current technology the battery life would go way down. I hope in time that becomes viable.
None of it's shortcomings would prevent me from buying one, they are just some (hopefully constructive) criticisms for Leica to consider for the next version. The thing that prevents me from buying one is the price. They should have the M as the flagship line and introduce all the new features on it while the MD lags behind maybe 2 or 3 years (just like this one) and be priced more like an actual tool and not a jewel.
I wish more manufacturers offered stripped-down manual digital cameras. I want shutter speed, aperture, iso, focus...period.
Carl Stawicki Amen. Too much bullshit now on cameras.
buy fuji XT1/XT2/X-Pro2/X100F
Great review, as an M2 owner I am intrigued by this. I agree with your suggestions for how they could have improved the camera. I think I would be fine using this with an eye-fi card so wouldn't need a screen on camera. I do wish they had a color & BW jpg mode as I hate editing RAW, would rather just develop film instead for the time it takes. Thanks again and look forward to the next video.
Nice review. For someone that makes a decent salary this will be a must to have camera. Thanks to Leica for still making these marvels. Hope they are able to keep doing it for long time.
nice one, i love the idea and love the shutter sound!
ya compared to the M240, this new shutter is much nicer. It's the exact same as the standard M Typ 262 as well, so no need to pay $800 more if you don't need the no-screen model!
Love the M-D. I think we photographers also need an SLR with no LCD and no Menu System. There's no reason it can't be done for much less than the M-D. Throw in a fixed lens camera too while manufactures are at it. I'm surprised digital didn't start this way actually. It would have made sense for the transition from film to digital in a M-D style.
Id love a X100 Fujifilm version.
I like how the improvement you think this camera needs is a way to see the photos XD that completely goes against what this camera does.
What this camera does is allow the photographer to focus on taking pictures and not waste time looking at the images while shooting. Having the ability to connect via wifi to view the images after you're finished shooting is not hindering this ability. It just makes it more convenient to look at the images without needing to pull the memory card out and plugging it into another device. I also mentioned that wifi would be great to connect with the camera to be able to adjust date-time, as a diagnostics tool (checking firmware version, shutter count, error messages, etc.) or even the ability to format the card. This can be done either wirelessly or via a wired connection. I did mention having a LCD screen underneath a metal plate as a crazy idea, I know Leica would never do it.
8:07 Love that shutter sound, much better than M10-P or M-10 IMO.
Why can you not set everything up, like the date, via USB?
I really like the idea of this and kind of wish that's what Nikon did with their Df. As it stands, digital Leicas are a bit out of my price range but this is rekindling my desire to pick up an M6.
Wow...what a camera! I think Leica has a gem here but I believe, as you say, it is a niche product and it is not as popular as other digital Leicas. I recon it will be popular with photographers who have had all the top of the range Pro-gear and want something for personal use...something for pleasure rather than work. Naturally the price is very high so I might need to save a little to afford one. It’s ‘when’.....not ‘if’....☺️
Thanks for your review.
Great concept, great camera. Except that I would have preferred that the ISO dial have been placed on top of the camera, like that on the M10. That way, looking down on the camera, you could see all three settings; and, your chest would not be in contact with the ISO dial as it is currently the case with the MD 262. Nice review, thank you.
hahahahah that screen under the flap it's actually a really good idea!
I will also suggest, like the first ever Digital rangefinder the Epson RD1 they could put the mechanical crank on the MD that will be like the perfect MD I can say!
I agree with your suggestions, it's what I was hoping for when rumors were surfacing on this camera. What I was really hoping for was for Leica to produce an app on your phone, to preview your images via Bluetooth or Wifi. Similar to what GoPro does with their camera and app relationship.
The only thing that stopped me from getting this camera was that it was still using the same sensor (and obviously the way Leica priced this camera. I believe they were 1000 USD off to be honest. If only Leica priced their M's at $3,5-4k they''ll really have a winning formula. )
I really hope; with the upcoming M10 and the gen M-D, Leica would incorporate those features.
Yes $1000 would have been nice, or at least create a non-brass top-plate version, but they really can't afford to have too much overlap in their M lineup. Let's hope this camera sells well and Leica sees that there is a demand for a screenless M body....
This is a novel idea and I can appreciate it, but at first I thought it was a little, well... not a great idea. But it has grown on me a bit. I like your concept of the flip up back like their film cameras to see a review screen. That would be some innovation! Probably not going to happen but I like your thoughts on that, Take.
ha ha thanks. I was kinda half kidding, I know they won't do it. But wifi or USB 3 connection wouldn't be difficult or go against the theme of this camera. I think even the ability to update firmware, change the date and time, or even changing the type of RAW file (uncompressed or lossless compression), or adding copyright signature to the files would be invaluable.
Yeah, I think just having the normal functions of items like you mentioned that are normally handled via the LCD screen would be nice to have - even if there were no preview mode. Anyway, cool stuff, I always appreciate what Leica brings to photography to keep the focus on the photographer's skills and vision. Anyway, I still vote for your plan. ;) Thanks man.
Good points on the analogue m users not being able to make the leap to this. I've had an m6 for 6 years - if I could afford this i'd buy it.
It should be $4000 not $6000.
With a 24MP sensor and no LCD, simple operation, I've essentially quit playing the spec chasing game, I will be keeping and using this body for many years to come. There are leasing options, though there's lots of interest involved, I calculated that I've lost just as much by buying and selling bodies of other makes over the last 5 years.
6000 USD buys a lot of film and good times.
I like the brass top plate. If they cheapen the camera, it would be a mistake. Also people who buy this prefer not to have LCD.
The best feature they could add to this is the ability to switch the sensor, I would love a shutter winder to save the battery even more, and uh..... idk, I guess that's id.
I Follow you and I consider your reviews the best in Fujifilm systems and for me your opinion about the two brands Lieca and Fuji is very important for my buying decision. I buy my first Fuji is the X100S after view your review and I'm very happy. Now I'm thinking about the Leica :-) Thanks in advance if you can answer my question in a video to share your point of view with all youtubers.
thanks for watching and thanks for your compliment!
I really like your reviews.
I doubt anyone using this camera would be interested in either check or download files as they shoot. There are other cameras for that.
Great video thanks, i think you are right about the chasis from older cameras, in fact i think Leica is coming up with something cause i got an email from Leica Miami where they are offering to trade in all m240, mp240 and monochrom's, for a 750 dls cupon i guess beside the money they pay for the camera.
One last thing M Typ 262 bottom plate is made of brass.
awesome thanks for the info!
Mr Taco It's be very interssting if you can give us you feeling and sensation after using Leica vs Fujifilm (The way to shoot, image quality,...)
The shooting experience with Leica is that it feels like film since you have to focus manually with the M lenses thus makes you shoot slower. The greatest advantage to Leica over Fujifilm or any brand is their compact M lenses. Very sharp, very nice rendering. No other lens brand has this look. However, the sensor technology on the Fujifilm is much better. The new X-Pro 2 sensor can out resolve the Leica's same MP but full frame sensor. Also the JPGs on Fujifilm cameras are great, for those who do not want to process RAW files. Price-performance obviously goes to Fujifilm, but Leica glass is a good investment since the M mount has been around for over 60 years and they hold their value very well, albeit astronomical in price. Fujifilm glass is also very good, but since it's AF and focus by wire, most lenses can be replaced over time with newer faster technology.
+bigheadtaco Thanks Mr Taco
I like the concept just as it is (other than price). Basically is a digital version of a Leica M film camera. If I ever go Leica digital it will be this one. Now they need a monochrome version of it too.
Curious, would one of those eyefi sd cards work in the camera?
the camera must be eyefi compatible and needs to set-up using the camera's menu system. Since the camera has no menu system (at least nothing visible) there woudn't be a way to set up. A simple USB plug would suffice for diagnostics and image download/view.
Thanks Taco. Understood. I've never messed with the cards before. I was under the impression the cards interact directly with your phone/ipod/tablet, but that makes sense.
the wifi SD cards are regardless of the camera i believe. You set them up through a web interface?
Love the RUSH T.....
How does the camera deal with White Balance ?
As far as viewing, How about a Wifi & GPS, to a cell phone app.
VIEW THE IMAGES ON THE CELL PHONE, WHICH MAKES THEM VIEWABLE IN L.R. Mobile, then DOWNLODABLE TO INSTAGRAM & SNAPCHAT !
Nice Video :)
I am using the M-D since 3 Month now and I love as it is.
No need for wifi or screen for me.
You have a small error about the specs , Shutter Speed is in half stops on the M-D not full ;)
thanks for the info. Is it half stops on the top dial, or you can go in between the full stops via the rear control dial?
This is the Leica that most appeals to me at the moment.
I think it's so cool. And in these days I am super tired of many reviews 90 percent of the time is about AF
SL Full review please!
I turned off the LCD on my M8, but this will probably be my next camera. Seems to be very close to a film experience.
yes, many make fun of the camera. However, everyone I know who've shot with it or own it, love the MD
Great review...what strap are you using.?
thanks. I young fellow on Instagram @YBPUTRO sells them. Hand made in Indonesia using Javanese sold cow leather, brass hardware. Beautiful and comfortable.
Totally agree;
(1) WiFi would be great. I agree. Film had, say, 36 exposures and after 36 shots one changes the film and can develop it immediately. With this M-D, it would mean underutilising fast memory card and change it constantly in order to see files. Troubling, both in studio and travel.
(2) Moving that tiny red light closer to rangefinder, so one can see with a corner of the eye that camera actually saves file, that there are no hiccups. Film cameras had a film crank lever, that gives a physical confirmation film is advancing. That was significant part of design. But take that away, and lots of film-shooting feeling is lost. It must be recompensed.
PS. Does M-D allow auto ISO?
its a beautiful thing
Oh the only thing I would add actually is a button that would format the card
Not that I disagree with the desire to keep this model super basic....but why would you want to take the chance of formatting a card which you couldn't view to see what you're about to erase? :)
+Dan Immel format the card after you've transferred the files in camera. The manual doesn't state btw the file system to format in computer btw
'Oh wow, cool it that the new leica with the format button?' 'Sure is!' 'Could I have a look?' 'Sure' *Click*
Lol sounds like an idea for accidentally deleting your photos.
Cool T-shirt btw :)
ha ha. That's all I was waiting for! Thanks
Yep Rush rules. ;)
Video Summary: Pay more for less.
Imo, pay more for a camera I rather have than the cheap one.
I think you pay more to increase the emasculation of your enemies. Making men develop ovaries and a biological clock solitarily dedicated to your seed is why you choose leica after all. This simply lets you impregnate them by LOS alone.
for different..its leica so its expensive anyway.
If I was spending $6k on a camera I would go for this.
unfortunately Leica is a very small boutique camera manufacturer. Canon probably has more managers than Leica has total world wide employees. If Canon and Leica made the exact same camera, Leica will still be twice as expensive due to their size, thus affecting volume and production costs. Because of this, Leica can not directly compete against Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fuji. It would be suicide. It's like Ferrari trying to compete with Toyota. Because of this, Leica must target a different audience. Since everything they build must be twice as expensive due to production costs, they must focus on the luxury market. If they want a consumer grade camera, they need to partner with Panasonic to make it cost effective. Even then, the Leica version will alway be more expensive due to the fact their production and distribution costs will be more and also lower volume of sales. That's why I always try to remind people that Leica is like Ferrari. It doesn't mean better, just a different market.
I'm siked for you to start an analog review series. I wanna see you review the contax G2 and contax T2. Those are considered to be great film cameras and are still highly sought after but there isn't that much comprehensive content on RUclips about either model.
ooh this is a cool idea for BHT specifically. An analog series!
The camera is a middle finger to the feature fetishists who have lost touch with the true spirit of photography. Complaining about lack of features is like saying a McLaren F1 doesn't have cup holders and power windows.
Actually the McLaren F1 was technologically advanced for its time, including the ability to plug the car to the internet and connect to McLaren HQ to run diagnostics. It also came with its own specialized tools since it used unique parts. I would argue that the true spirit of photography is getting the shot, no matter what tool you are using. Fred Herzog, probably the most famous Vancouver street photographer doesn't shoot with film Leica's, he shoots MFT Olympus. If HCB was alive today, he too would probably be using a digital camera. Most great photographers I've met see cameras only as tools, not objects of desire. That's usually hobby and enthusiast photographers, which is cool too. I'm a bit of both and appreciate the art of photography as well as nerd out on gear.
Leica should release the ML, a rangefinder style version of the SL using the same L mount. Then with three (TL, ML, SL) cameras using the same platform Leica should finally be able to move into the future.
I love this camera, price not so much, but let us not justify our frustration on price, It is what it is, Leica is not a mass producer like nikon and canon, they are one of the very few that exist that make cameras so true to cameras and lenses of decades old by hand and each has a personal touch added that we can cherish, So that said it is costly process and they mark up on each camera is that much, the idea is to make their product desirable, they have accomplished that by staying true to the essence and superb quality to this day and age, i LOVE the way this looks, a clean back with no screen to distract you, you feel you are more in the zone than ever, i have shot very little film and got into digital right away, I first got away from AF lenses, and that felt great, shooting with vintage RF lenses and SLR MF lenses felt great, especially on a rangefinder body, no screen is just awesome, aesthetically speaking it is more beautiful and also makes you one with the camera and your scene or subject, if you want or need some consolation, I would say this, have the EVF contact points in there like on the Leica T, that will not cost too much and if it did, that $800 extra should more than cover the value! Than you can chimp and see your shots if you like, kind of will feel stupid doing it cause the only reason you would buy this is for its superb clean look and make you get rid of all those unneeded controls.
you never reviewed the m262 like you said you would...
Isn't it possible to use a simple eye-fi wifi SD-card?
Toshiba Flash Air is much better and much cheaper. Toshiba loads the latest photos taken first. I've used it on my M240 - works like a charm!
+G Goh thank you for the hint, I didn't know that Toshiba Flash Air and I think that would be the better solution 👍🏻
Toshiba Flash Air wifi card only loads jpgs wirelessly, not DNG files (I believe it's the same for eye-fi). So shoot in both DNG and jpg mode. Not that big a deal. Or else you can also use a Lightning to SD Card Camera Reader from Apple to physically load your SD card onto your iphone (again, only jpg files).
This camera only shoots RAW files, and the current iOS will not process DNGs on the iPhones, but Android will. With wifi, and access to certain menu functions, it would solve all these problems.
+bigheadtaco Thanks for this great review. You can transfer images to an iPad or iPhone using the Apple SD card to lighting cable. Then you can import into Apple Photos app. From there, you can launch Adobe PS Express, access the images in your Photos album and "Open original Raw image" (DNG). Then you're set to view, edit and export the image.
Another great review. But if you "NEED" to look or check this is not the camera for you. I like the concept but not the price!
thanks for watching. I also mentioned basic set-up is complicated. Having wifi to set the date and time, check firmware version, to see diagnostic info like shutter count would still be beneficial.
but its do it one time only isn't it.
If you travel, you want a home base date and time, and then adjust when you visit a new place. Also, firmware for body and lenses are always updated. As for shutter count, that's always changing of course and if there's a system error, it would be nice to know where the error is versus having to ship it off to Leica if there's a problem.
Wifi brilliant idea
Ah - you can't resist suggesting features! Less is more man. (But one way to interact with the firmware would be to use QR codes. You could just have a code book or an app that you photograph to issue commands)
If you want to shoot the MD or M10D then you are ok with a $800 premium 😉
I'd be happy with it, even without LCD screen, if he had a permanently visible histogram.
I love this camera, but charging more for it than the standard M262 is laughable. The difference in the cost of the raw materials can probably be measured in pennies. Leica are simply charging what people are prepared to pay. Just look at the special edition Leicas. A different colour leather trim and a cute engraving on the top plate costs you thousands of dollars.
Or....or just use a EyeFi Card?
I know this video is old, but the whole point of a luxury brand is that access to the brand is hard. You make access easy, then the brand loses its desirability. Making a “cheap” M camera is a bad idea for Leica
Just shoot film! You can afford a lot of film with the change from an M6
Split the difference and for 400$ I can break your LCD for you, or even better for that amount I can encourage you over the phone with my bulliest athletics match voice to do it yourself.
Also gaffer tape is used to make better images, that's why bresson and gilden used it and that's why I make better images today than I did when I got my first camera that I didn't put any tape on. obviously.
I see they are following another German manufacturer: Porche. They remove features in their cars and charge more. But nice review :-)
The suggestions are kinda funny, if you want to see the image (chimp) then get a Leica (240) or (262) etc. The M-D is about not having a screen. Simple minimal perfect. I've got the Leica M(240). And I def want the M-D over the (240) I hate having a screen and people wanting to see the images. I can lie and say sorry it's an old film camera ;)
Thanks for your comment. I did not recommend chimping (taking the photo and immediately wanting to see the picture). By using wifi or a cable to see the image, it will take a few minutes before you get to actually see the image. I even mentioned that you don't need to transfer the image, even just to look quickly for reference. I also mentioned another advantage to wifi or a physical connection is the ability to access menus and diagnostics for changing date, time, shutter count, firmware, etc. As I mentioned, I had a great time shooting and didn't need to immediately see the picture. My biggest complaint was setting the time and date and the inability to see firmware info. Thanks again for your comments :-)
sebastio salgado uses canon...
If you want a screen, get the one with a screen
Seems like this review and suggestions to Leica about this camera is defeating the purpose of the camera.
Yoy can swap cards.
They are charging what they can get away with its that simple.
Why would anyone buy this is beyond me...
You never know, one day it may make sense to you.
I normally really like your reviews, but I feel like you sort of missed the point of this camera. It's not about sales or practicality. It's about mystery.
No, a hard to use LCD is a bad idea, how ever hard to use. Thats not who this is marketed at anyway.
I know what I really wanted was wifi or a direct connect so we can at least set the date and time, as well as access firmware for updates as well as shutter count etc. I don't think that's asking too much.
That's adding even more hardware just for setting date time (once or twice the life time of a camera) and firmware updates (once or twice a year). Also, no need for the direct connect. If you need to shoot fashion or need to tether, then you wouldn't be using this camera in the first place.
I think Leica could sell it even for 50 000$ and ppl would buy it anyway
Bluetooth / Wifi Raw SD card. Period! So it connects directly to phone.
For roughly the same price, I would no doubt get the Nikon D5 instead (amzn.to/2b6LdRp)
You started raving about the bare essentials and no screen but you recommended a flip up screen to view.
Are you pro analog/digital or comfort/digital-'analog. No one that is totally digital age that never shot. Analog is going to spend this kind of money to not see their pictures.
I own the M10-10 so I speak from experience
Fashion photographers will buy a different model
This seems to be a way overpriced camera, and it also seems quite ,,senseless" in today's standards - if I could afford it, I would buy it RIGHT AWAY! :)
Just get a wifi sdcard
wifi card
where is Kai? bring back Kai!
Your suggestions make no sense. Just get another camera that fits the needs of someone who needs those features. Period.
Its the dumbest product of the year.
Another overpriced Leica -thing for posers