5 REASONS why! How to UPGRADE E-Bike HUB MOTOR from HALL SENSOR to SENSORELESS! Bafang Himiway
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
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This a great idea. I am learning about these motors because my bike broke and this is a very straight forward solution. I would try 14 gauge wire but 12 definitely works
In my experience, hall less is a pita. Yes a sensor less controller works (by using the voltage produced by the coils as a magnetic passes over them to tell the controller the rotors position), but start up is very rough and often locks the motor. I had to be extremely gentle with the throttle until the motor was turning relatively fast before I could use any power. Very difficult hill starts. My experience is with mxus hubs, very similar to bafang.
Yeah it's a bit rough at low rpm, but we'll worth the reliability gain , after 2 miles an hour it is so much better
You're talking about a e-scooter, where you absolutely NEED the sensors to be accurate otherwise you will lock the engine and have a very rough start, however the story is very different for e-bikes. The PAS triggers the engine after a moment you started to peddle, which means the bike is already moving. From my experience there is literally no difference between sensor and sensorless at all.
However the video here is misinformation. The sensors actually don't break that easily at all. The only reason sensors break are 2 ways:
a.) You're very very very unlucky (unlikely)
b.) You're running the engine out of spec. (99% of the cases here)
People love running their ebikes out of spec and burn their wires and overheating their engines. I am no exception. I literally melted 1 of my phases so that it cannot produce as much power as the other 2 which causes on high load funny noises from my motor. People have to keep in mind, that IF you want to give the hub more juice, then you have to make sure it can handle it. As this video perfecly demonstrates, these "250W" engines have really crappy wires, which can easily handle those 250W, however once you go beyond that, the wires will start melting and cause all sorts of problems.
So before putting a 48V battery on a 250W engine or remove the speed limiter which would boost the performance to 350W, ask yourself if you shouldnt be doing the exact modification that the guy in the video does beforehand. I strongly recommend replacing the wires if you want to have more performance out of your 250W engine.
@@danishblunt9698 you are more knowledgeable than I in this department, so this is a genuine question: wouldn't the limiter (speed limiter) prevent the wire from burning out even if you're using a more powerful battery?
@@dantejackson8670 no because the higher you go in top speed the less power the engine will consume. The highest powerdraw is at startup where the engine draws the most amps to get going.
As long you stay within the same battery voltage you should be fine. You can upgrade to a better 36v battery since the ampdraw will be limited to 15amp due to the controller. Meaning having a max output of 36v*15a is something the engine can handle, that being said once you upgrade to 48v youll have 48*15 which is something the engine can handle short term but not over time.
You need a controller what can runs without hall sensor
it will only run rough at the beginning for one second and still get full power.
A controller what needs a hall sensor.
Will lock up the motor & won't run properly at all.
Can you please tell me what controller you used with the original hub before you removed the sensors?
mind you ,these bafang motors dont melt under normal useage and normal voltage and currents ,ive had them work for years without an issue,its only when you over volt or boost current do these issues pop up,.but boy can these things go fast on 72 volts i ve one as the front motor on my stealth bomber bike ,its set up for launch control mainly ,i run it with a sabvoton svmc 7245 unlocked version ,but i changed to metal gears and mad custom hub sinks to help with heat
i had to change the phase wire to expensive air craft grade and also drill out axle abit ,we also find that removing the insulation from the phase wires and covering them in justn heat shrink is much thinner than normal insulation
did you change the controller for this? Can you recommend a good sensorless controller as replacement? Thank you!
the same motor model but front version has 2x thicker phase cables. in my bike front cables stay cold but rear cables just melts everything, other cables, shrink tubes, 3d prints and zipties. I realy recomend for you to change cables to the ones with teflon insulation like the original ones but thicker gauge.
Hi. I have a question, did you change the controller for this? If yes, can you recommend a good sensorless controller as replacement? thanks
I agree. Which controller did you use?
Nice work mate very helpful I would have used stranded cu instead of solid ones (DC power ) but it was very helpful thank you.
I agree in DC the current follows the exterior of each strand in the wire. More strands better current flow in DC.
But you are a gosh dang genius. I didn't realize you could do that with a hub motor. I have a very powerful 2500 watt hub motor that that must have been. What happened as a wires melted on the inside cuz I took it apart and everything looks fine but it just would not work and now I'm going to replace those wires with the 12 gauge and man. You are a lifesaver because I didn't know what was going to do. The only thing I wish they would make is Thur axle hub motors then I could install it on my through axle bike
You may want to consider kapton tape for higher temperature. Twist connectors are great for solid core wire but can still shake loose.
👍
Thank you , and You Tube ,,,,This is why my motor has lost 90 percent of power ............now for many hours to rework the whole system to sensorless controller...................
The added heat from guessing which phase wire to put power through will outweigh the benefit of having slightly thicker phase wires and will probably make the phase wires melting more likely and will definitely make the motor windings insulation melting more likely and is definitely not more reliable.
Bro I know this 2 years old but I needed to find the other person that could tell this was a bad idea. The man used duct tape and no one said that's not smart
Maybe I misunderstood you, but compared to stranded copper wire, solid is actually rated for less current. Now, if you were changing to a solid conductor that was a bigger gauge than the existing stranded, sure it's likely to be rated for a higher amperage. Contrary to popular assumption, electricity does not flow through a wire, but actually on the wire. This means that the more surface area your conductors have, the more amperage you can push through it.
I think whether it flows on surface depends on whether it's dc or ac. I think ac is on surface due to changing magnetic fields so the greater surface area of stranded would carry more ac current.
Skin effect only applies at high frequencies.
There is zero difference in ampacity between stranded and solid.
Keep in mind that rated ampacity is just a guide. It is based on how much of a heat rise you can tolerate in continuous use.
If you're just looking at an ampacity chart to determine your required guage, you're missing the point, and don't really understand how electricity works.
The original motor wires are not metal as you say (you probably meant iron wires) they are still copper wires but coated with nickel/chrome/zinc to maintain a none corrosive copper surface and perhaps more solderable. What you need to search for is a so called single wire, often referred to as panel wire, T.R.S (tri-rated singles). It has a hire (more dens) number or cores that are thinner than the cores used on a normal wire. That makes the cable a lot more flexible even at bigger diameters (gauge sizes).
Well the thing you forgot to add is even though you're just running the three wires that then goes to the controller and then the controller. You can still have pedal cyst option you can still have. If you get a good sine wave controller for brushless motors, you're good to go. You can have alarms. You can have cruise control display still unless everyone knew that. But yeah I didn't know you can do that with a hobotor. I did that with my buffeting mid drive motor and made it thousand watt to 4000 watt and I'm having a blast and I was confused at first because I didn't know I didn't have a hole sensor and I was worried. Like what am I supposed to plug it in and then read the instructions? It can work without it just fine. And I still have pedal assist and the cruise control. A lot of cool extra options just depends on how well you buy your controller I guess
just FYI there is a tool to remove the cluster it has a cut out grove down one side so the cable silides through or you can just cut out 4mm with the grinder ive done both
Great video. U never give up
Awesome thanks for watching
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Ive been thinking about doing this since having issues with the hall sensor
What controller are you using to run it?
Would any sensor less controller work? Or is it possible to hack a sensored controller to behave like a sensorless controller?
What kind of controller are you using?
Decent Bafang motors have the wire on the brake side...
There's a reason for that.
ORRRR you can just buy motors with properly sized connectors in the first place. The ones I've purchased from GrinTech (eZee, MACs, and the standard 500-1000w hubmotors in Radpower bikes, I've been able to swap out cassettes no problemo.
removing the sensors is going to make it impossible to have high torque at starting.
also, the things you used to plug the wires are very dangerous in tha case because it can get undone and short your controller
also you should have used split wires instead of solid wires because they are less likely to break because of metal fatigue
And yet nothing like that happened and the bike is fine 2 years later ...sometimes it's good to be stupid like me
@@TheCrazyRomanian can i use my controller that has no connection for lcd?
Does this ok with controller no problem?
hi I was wondering if you went back to sensor motor or if you have had any problem after conversion
thank you
Sensoreless was the way to go ..
was looking to fix the halls but cba with that! going to bypass with thicker wires like you said, only problem need to get a new controller
Yes the controller will give you better cooling also
@@TheCrazyRomanian I got 2 hub motors, so hopefully I can recondition them both and got 2 motors restored!
If you do this to the motor will the stock himiway controller still work or do you need a different one
Is there any way to tell if a brushless motor controller made in China will run without the hall sensors? Or is it just try it and see.??
Can you still use a motor if the windings are burnt black?
If l do this do l have to take the hall???Or can l just hook up the 3 wires??
cut cable and add 3 bullet connectors, that way you can pull them through 1 at a time for the tool.....
Question: Does the board and hall wires NEED to be removed from the hub, in order for it to work sensorless?
doesnt need to be removed, you just need a controller that can ignore it
@@TheCrazyRomanian ah..k. so if the latter don't work, then removing them should solve the problem?
@@TheCrazyRomanian from where i can buy this controller?
Great video with lots of info!! Good job Bro
Do u have modified controller
do you also need to change your controller to sensor less?
what do you mean when you say the sensors make the motor run "not as rough"?
The fields are more in sync so at low speeds the motor feels a little rough like it jerks
Do you have a wiring diagram I don't know where to connect the new three cables to my 1500w hub fatbike getting rid of the anemic hall sensors
I started checking after seeing this. I ride m-f to work, 6.9 mi. The plug gets pretty warm. It was very warm after a short ride to store( ( less than 1/4 mi) . I use the throttle after pas to speed. Wondering if using pas more would help.preserve the wiring. I believe the lesser wiring is losing its resistance. Had to seperate plug the other day , first time in many months it was a little resistant but seperated , mayb its slowly deteriorating?
use die electric compound to prevent this issue.
what controller do you recommend ?
you cut the hall sensor, and then you connect in star connection? im right?
i have the same problem, i would like to get rid of this "HALL SENSOR", too much headache, would you be able to send a link of that "sensorless controller" PLEASE, i have a 1500 watts motor
www.ebay.com/itm/36V-52V-1000W-1500W-35A-3-mode-Sine-Wave-ebike-Controller-Colorful-LCD-Display-/174788175525?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0
You didn't say what happened to the wires of the 3 hall sensors? Just leave them open?
Instead of removing the wires why not just use silcone coated wires? Something heat resistant?
You can't find solid core wires that are silicone coated , this size gauge that fit thru the channel . Plus these were free
Try using mt60 connector
So, with this upgrade to power supply wires and eliminating the hall sensor, change controller, what happens to your pas settings etc?
The controller doesn't care about that anymore ...
Dude get an MR60 connector or something from Amass that supports 3 phase wires and is more less weather resistant. Those twist on wire nuts are not safe
how about the pedal assist is it working?
Do you have take the hall sensor out??Can you just hook up the 3 wires?
You don't have to take the sensors out bit I needed to space for more room to add thicker wires
Hi i have a bird bike with a 500 watt bafang motor. How can I hack the speed limit?
Hi. I'm watching this just now. Can yiu tell me please how it's work, so basickly you run on 3 phase wires only? No 5 hall sensors at all?
I want to do exactly what you did in my motor. It's loosing power but the dasboard stays on. I recon its hall sensor problem, so, instead of replacing them I want to remove them.
I think there is something wrong with the motor if it gets that hot or you are running it with to big of a battery or passing the recommended run time
Yeah I'm not riding my bicycle in the park so it overheats because I'm putting it through a lot of load climbing hills in the woods
Where'd you get a sensorless controller
Can you hook up the motor straight to the battery and throttle?
No
Upgraded controller to what? Spec brands models please.
Something that works without hall sensor
I have a dual mode controller. It should work with or without the HAL sensors, but my HAL sensors have failed and the wheel doesn't turn. I've tried only connecting the phase wires and the red and black (+/-) wires to the controller. All that happens is a clicking sound.
Can anyone help me with this?
Should I remove the HAL sensors from the wheel hub?
Yes completely take them out and try powering on and off your controller by either a switch or just directly connecting and unconnecting the battery [+] and [-]. Also make sure the hall connector with 5 or 6 wires is properly un connected. The controller should then recognize the halls are broken and switch into sensor less mode
Short circuit from bare wire causes problem..
I gave up on hall sensors a long time ago. Every motor I got ended up frying the halls just from the heat.
For the phase wires, I suggest moving away from those XLR 3 pin connectors and physically separate each phase info a separate connector.
Also, a good way to increase the life of your phase wires and connectors is to wire strip a good 5-10cms off the end and wrap it around a piece of 12-10 gauge bare wire. This adds a good deal of heat sink.
I also like to create a fork of 2 connectors per phase so that should a connector fail on me, it has a bypass to pick up the slack.
Yep I've done that, way better
After removing the hall sensors do you have to have a sensorless controller to hook it to or can you hook it to a sensored controller at that time
Sensorless controller
Or you could get a connection soldiered in between the key clip and the driveshaft. One that would fit size of hole. Your welcome. If you feel like giving me the hall sensors I would be glad to take off your hands
do you have wiring diagram for this. thanks
Do you know if there is any 48v 1000w programmable controllers that do not need any hall sensors ?
I'm sure there are ....just search eBay or ali express
look for a vesc they run in sensored or sensorless.... but im telling you from many years of experence running ebikes and e-scateboards and other bldc motors running a good quality controler and adding a tempreture sensor is the real fix here not aking away something that is needed for smooth effecent running of a low speed bldc motor. these motors are designed to be ran at 10's of thousands of rpm. by only using then in the low hundreds you need more presice control and the controler needs know the absulute position of the motor in order to properly switch the phases correctly. yes it can run without them... but it will never put put the power you want when and were you need it this i can promice.
I need help,after I remove the hall sensor,where do I connect the wire s too? Pls if someone can pls send me some Info or something. Ty
You don't connect the wires , there are not more hall sensors , you need a controller that works sensoreless
Where is your rewire diagram? I see plenty of people asking but never a answer?
Wat heeft u met de draden die naar de controller gaan
This is a peddling fire waiting to happen.
I'm still waiting ..
Yes you can remove the cassette by modify one tool or buy one made especially for that on Bolton site. Cutting the wire every times is really really stupid.
Bad design
Am not sure it will work without a hall sensor
Their new motor like the one I have on my Zebra is a far better motor than that one. It runs cooler and is more powerful. I have not heard of anyone welding their wires together on it. Plus, it is easier to work on because it comes apart on the disc brake side and the wires come out on that side too between the hub and the frame.
Could you run with a couple light switchs and not use the controller. I want to try that with mine
You need a controller.. The firleds need to be in order and timing determines rotation speed
No, it's impossible to drive a 3 phase DC motor with a couple of light switches. This is crazy. Don't you think that if it was possible every e-bike maker in the world would have used shitches instead (to save production costs) but hell no....its not possible im afraid. The use of a controler is : Paramount !!!
No, it's impossible to drive a 3 phase DC motor with a couple of light switches. This is crazy. Don't you think that if it was possible every e-bike maker in the world would have used shitches instead (to save production costs) but hell no....its not possible im afraid. The use of a controler is : Paramount !!!
please can you send me a diagram of how to connect the wires
So many fine points and improvements made then wire nuts protruding. Picard on bridge , face in hand. I'm going to go throw all my wire nuts away when I find the fifth one rattling around in some drawer, toolbox.
Ha
wow,they dont even bother to put heat resistant cover for wires and they melt like crap
use kapton tape..... for high heat....
Too bad I couldn't do the same thing on my EUCs.
I've got a jetson pro n would like to bypass everything and wire direct from battery to motor and have a button I can hit while I'm at max speed with reg throttle will this ruin the motor and would this make it faster?
It won't ruin it because it won't work.
Your understanding is so non-existent you should abandon any thoughts of making modifications until you at least learn what the major components are of your drive system and the basic function of each.
I'd run it at 48v to lower to amp draw
you have gone backwards not an upgrade you will burn more wires without the hall sensor as it will time the phase better and lower unnecessary amps on take off all in all not better get good hall sensors and you should not be melting any thing you are doing something wrong may be the controller is to bigger wattage for your motor .
Nope, this is way more reliable, never had an issue since then
You must be over volting or using a higher power controller to melt wires and halls. Not a common problem experienced by normal use.
What controller are you using?
the reason I have a new controller is because I burned 2 original controllers in 2 weeks, I only ride it off-road and I do keep that throttle open, I do think that I might have figure it out... Now... I'm ironing out all the weak points
Hey my friend .after
Yellow Romex 20 amp wire.
0:05 don't do this. It's smarter to just use better quality wires with silicone coating that have better heat resistance. I thought i was coming to this video to learn something but all the reasons for doing this are silly and can be avoided. As far as the problem with the cord he could just use waterproof connectors to make easy access. As soon as i saw he put fucking duct tape in a motor i immediately called everything in question.
Worked way better than the original .. that bike had over 5000 miles like that when I sold it ..
That's horrible! What's Himiway thinking, one of my fat tire e bikes is on its third freewheel. OMG I'd be so pissed.
Great video.
Question, I'm replacing my ebike pcb board.
The replacement has 7 holes/copper rings for wiring. Bu my original has 6 - 5V, GND, SP, H1, H2, and H3.
The replacement has an additional ring for wiring labeled "K". What does K stand for in this case? Keyswitch, ohms, resistance? Can't find any information or diagrams online.
And if I solder/connect the "regular" wires, will I have a problem if I leave "K" unsoldered?
No info online + could use the help.
/bklyn 👑
you have a diagram?
hall senzor iti important for torc end ramp 😂😂😂😂😂
Cu televizorul au mințit poporul
hall senzor face torsiunea la urcare si urca mai bine nu raman magneti in urma, 😂😂😂😂😂 ai stricat motoru
Sa vezi Ce greu urca atunci când se strică la vale și ai parcat mașina la deal. Da se simte că nu sunt la viteza mica dar altfel trage mult mai bine mai bine ..
Lol treba u naš jezik kad praviš film
without sensors the motor and controller will not work
What kind of video did you see sure it will Don't you see in my video that actually works are you crazy f***
I have an Ouxi V8 of which the hall sensors are defective. Can you remove the hall sensors? So the engine will work without hall sensors?
hardly an upgrade, more like a downgreade lmao
Well first you need to learn how to spell downgrade ... Till then your opinion doesn't count
its a massive downgrade !! the poster dosent know the first thing about bldc motors or how to controle them....and this video shows. just look at the house wiring he is using and wire nuts like its the early 1900's
@@spcolsson Well, he made better job than factories.
@@spcolsson How is it a massive down grade when he said it has worked for two years? Do you have another option than his? I would love to learn about it so that I apply it to my hub motor. Is there a higher capacity thin cable wire available that can be fitted inside the bolt hub shaft? Help me understand what he is doing wrong so that I can avoid it. Thank you in advance
awesome mate I was wondering if it was possible and seeing this video I'm going to do mine thanks for taking the time to make this
Can you use Anderson connectors to disconnect hall sensor half and slide nut over
okay so just buy a new one and, not do this fire waiting to happen.
Hall is a must have on 3ph motor controller...
thanks i dont have a dual mode controller and now my bike wont work
What did you expect ?
Is it still three phase after the hull sensors are removed
Yes