Filling My New Watercolor Palette - Heung IL 13 Well Aluminium Watercolor Palette

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  • Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
  • In today's video I'm going to be taking a quick look at this Heung IL 13 well watercolor palette and then filling it with my choice of colors.
    I want to try a few new paints in this new walercolor palette and expand a little from my usual 9 color landscape palette.
    What colors would you choose for your ideal 12-13 color palette?
    Materials used in this video:
    Leyton 350gsm Rough Watercolor Paper
    Heung IL 13 Well Aluminium Watercolor Palette
    Rembrandt Cadmium Yellow Lemon bit.ly/3jTawZ2
    Holbein Quinacridone Gold bit.ly/3z2Ss4Z
    Rembrandt Cadmium Red Light bit.ly/3AHoqUK
    Winsor & Newton Cotman Light Red bit.ly/3taL6dy
    Rembrandt Carmine (unavailable)
    Rembrandt Ultramarine Deep bit.ly/3AJ67OV
    Lukas Cerulean Blue bit.ly/3n8c8RN
    Winsor & Newton Cotman Intense Blue bit.ly/2WLprwm
    Mijello Viridian bit.ly/3skCala
    Winsor & Newton Cotman Yellow Ochre bit.ly/3DFwfN7
    Mijello Dark Burnt Sienna (unavailable)
    Winsor & Newton Cotman Burnt Umber
    Holbein Lavender
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    / jaynathanwatercolor
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    #watercolorpainting #watercolorpalette #watercolour

Комментарии • 89

  • @JayNathanWatercolor
    @JayNathanWatercolor  3 года назад +8

    Oops. I mistakenly said that the new Rembrandt Carmine is PV19 when it is actually single pigment PR264. Sorry about that.

    • @MaTTheWish
      @MaTTheWish 2 года назад

      It's okay, we forgive you.

  • @Petercobourg
    @Petercobourg 2 года назад +3

    The PB36 in Daniel Smith is Cerulean Chromium where PB35 is their regular Cerulean.

  • @thefervourofmysoul
    @thefervourofmysoul 3 года назад +6

    No offense, but i love your voice the most.. You have got such a soothing and mesmerizing voice. You can easily do some ASMR videos 😍💛👌

    • @JayNathanWatercolor
      @JayNathanWatercolor  3 года назад +2

      Haha thanks very much. I don't think I've ever listened to an ASMR video. What are they? 🤣

    • @thefervourofmysoul
      @thefervourofmysoul 3 года назад +2

      @@JayNathanWatercolor Hi Jay, it's kind of relaxing and soothing sensation providing technology viz different kind of sounds and whisper. More precisely : "autonomous sensory meridian response
      Coined in 2010, ASMR (autonomous sensory meridian response) is a relaxing, often sedative sensation that begins on the scalp and moves down the body. Also known as "brain massage," it's triggered by placid sights and sounds such as whispers, accents, and crackles" . I hope it helps 😊😊💛

    • @JayNathanWatercolor
      @JayNathanWatercolor  3 года назад +1

      I see. Thank you 😊

  • @SarahBaileyArts
    @SarahBaileyArts 3 года назад +13

    I've been really into using lavender for shadows lately, but then, I've moved away from a realistic painting style recently so it makes more sense in that context. :)

    • @JayNathanWatercolor
      @JayNathanWatercolor  3 года назад +1

      Using it in shadows sounds interesting. What made you decide to change your style?

    • @SarahBaileyArts
      @SarahBaileyArts 3 года назад +4

      @@JayNathanWatercolorI felt like I'd gone as far as I cared to go with realism and wanted to express myself more artistically. I wasn't making decisions based on what I liked or what I wanted to express, but rather what the photo or reference looked like. And while I do think references are great and I still use them all the time, I mostly use them now for inspiration, lighting and proportions, not so much for color choices and brush strokes. It's a hard transition that I'm still definitely struggling with, but I know I can always dabble in realism if I miss it. :)

    • @JayNathanWatercolor
      @JayNathanWatercolor  3 года назад +1

      Even though it's a difficult transition, it if it leads to you enjoy your painting process and the results more, it will be totally worth it. I look forward to seeing what you create in the future 🙏

    • @ernes103
      @ernes103 2 года назад +3

      I also use lavender quite a lot (Mijello in my case, quite happy with it, and the price is more affordable) specially for mixes on skies, snow, but also I find it very useful when mixing with yellow ochre to get interesting beiges (they’re softer that using ultramarine, and with less or no granulation)

    • @SarahBaileyArts
      @SarahBaileyArts 2 года назад +1

      @@ernes103 I just used lavender for snow yesterday! :) Excellent tip re: mixing with yellow ochre, I'm going to try that!

  • @iadenicole931
    @iadenicole931 2 года назад +6

    I think your palette is very interesting. You have some important staples in there so that you can mix a great range with them. Your sample painting was beautiful. I am trying to create a versatile 12 colour palette myself but have a hard time narrowing down what I would like.

    • @JayNathanWatercolor
      @JayNathanWatercolor  2 года назад +2

      Thank you very much 🙏 I guess it's hard narrowing down to just 12 if you're used to a larger palette. I usually work with a more limited palette so it was fun to include some extra pigments ☺️ Good luck putting your palette together.

  • @alexshi9320
    @alexshi9320 2 года назад +4

    I have one and they are quite decent for what it's worth. In the very beginning theres some beading but just after a bit of use a month or so later the surface becomes very pleasant to mix with, absolutely no beading. I really wish Holbein still made their steel palettes though, because aluminum bends far too easily and sometimes my palette will bend out of shape just from being placed in a bag for travel.
    My favourite palette so far has to be the John Pike palette which is American made and it's excellent. No beading out of the box and very large mixing area + wells. The plastic thats used feels indestructible. It's just a little bit too big for plein air use. When I get more into watercolour in the future I've been thinking of investing in a brass palette made by Craig Young's little brass box company.
    Nice review Jay and cheers from Canada

    • @JayNathanWatercolor
      @JayNathanWatercolor  2 года назад

      Thank you for watching and commenting 🙏
      I didn't know Holbein had stopped making the steel palettes? I thought they still made them alongside the aluminium ones?
      I agree with you about the John Pike palette. It's great but a bit big to use anywhere but at home.

    • @alexshi9320
      @alexshi9320 2 года назад +2

      @@JayNathanWatercolor Unfortunately that has been the case. If you know about a place that still has some stock I would really like to know :D

  • @arsinoe8336
    @arsinoe8336 Год назад +1

    I have one palette from hyeung like you and some from Holbein. They are exactly 100% the same. The old Holbein one i have have also the the H on the thumb hole like yours. And the Holbein are also made from aluminum. I think that one produce them for the other company as well. Because they're identical. The new Holbein palette I have is different in the fact that they don't a thumbhole anymore

  • @NanaBeth1
    @NanaBeth1 3 года назад +9

    Looks like a great choice of colors to me. Surprised at the Lavender. I love it but don't have it on any of the palettes I actually use. Need to give it a try. Looking forward to seeing how you use it. Don't make any judgement on Viridian based on the Mjello paint.Maybe on of these days you can give Rembrandt's a try. It's a true Viridian pigment.

    • @JayNathanWatercolor
      @JayNathanWatercolor  3 года назад +2

      I was looking at the 13th well in the palette as being a random extra so I thought I'd throw in the lavender. It's very beautiful in sky's but I'm not all that sure what else I will use it for. 😂
      Yes Mijello's naming is annoying but I did select it as a PG7 rather than a Viridian. I do want to try a genuine Viridian one day though.

    • @Decopainterandtea
      @Decopainterandtea 3 года назад +1

      @@JayNathanWatercolor Perhaps you could use it in shading by itself or a touch added to a light grey.

    • @JayNathanWatercolor
      @JayNathanWatercolor  3 года назад +1

      @@Decopainterandtea Great idea. Thank you for your suggestions 🙏

    • @karonyart
      @karonyart 3 года назад +2

      I have a tube of the Rembrandt's Viridian. I expected it to be a weak pigment, but I guess they have to add more binder or something because when I try to use a larger amount of that paint everything goes glossy. I've heard it's the gum arabic that does that. I'd probably try a pan, rather than tube version of PG18 next time :)

  • @karonyart
    @karonyart 3 года назад +5

    Nice to see your new palette choices :) I'm glad you're giving the PG7 a try again. Recently I discovered, that I love it mixed with dioxazine purple PV23 - it gives the most beautiful teal colours and when diluted I use it for the sky. Perfect mix for overcast here in Czechia.

    • @JayNathanWatercolor
      @JayNathanWatercolor  3 года назад +2

      Thank you for watching and commenting 🙏
      PG7 and PV23 isn't a mix I had ever thought of trying before. It sounds like an interesting mix for painting the sky.
      I've managed to get used to phthalo blue so hopefully I will be able to do the same with PG7. We shall see ☺️

    • @karonyart
      @karonyart 3 года назад +2

      @@JayNathanWatercolor If you try it, let me know what you think :)

    • @JayNathanWatercolor
      @JayNathanWatercolor  3 года назад +2

      @@karonyart Will do 😊🙏

  • @bentheben1145
    @bentheben1145 2 года назад +2

    Your selection of watercolors is cool :)

  • @ralphcrosby9622
    @ralphcrosby9622 2 года назад +1

    I like the carmine.

  • @NikkiDraven
    @NikkiDraven 3 года назад +3

    Quinacridone gold and cadmium lemon are really stunning, I love using lavender as well I have one very nice from Rembrandt. I love warm reds too, I always have a vermilion or a scarlet. My favourite so far is vermillion from mijello. I love that peachy/orangy undertone. Ohhh and Indian red is a must too, you picked light red which seems kind of similar from my display

    • @JayNathanWatercolor
      @JayNathanWatercolor  3 года назад

      Indian red is actually my favourite watercolor and that's the reason I left it out of this palette. I want to do some painting without it for a while. The light red is much more orange than the Indian Red I have.

  • @mariram
    @mariram 3 года назад +6

    Try to mix lavender with pg7, it makes a pretty turquoise. Also, with Ochre it might make a nice mix. Does the Holbein lavender granulate?

    • @JayNathanWatercolor
      @JayNathanWatercolor  3 года назад +1

      Oh nice. Thank you for the suggestions 😊🙏 The Lavender granulates a little bit but not much.

  • @rebeccapage4411
    @rebeccapage4411 2 года назад +2

    I liked the palette (also not a fan of color stored in the lid). I've been debating a lavender, and enjoyed it in your sample painting. I live in the far North, and find WN Naples yellow a staple for the long twilights. I'm also hooked on transparent Orange. I don't use any reds, but mix them with trans orange and PR 122 Magenta. I also mix my olives/browns/grays with Trans orange and Van Gogh Indigo. I look forward to seeing your paintings with this palette!

    • @JayNathanWatercolor
      @JayNathanWatercolor  2 года назад

      Thank you very much 🙏 A few commenters have mentioned Naples yellow to me in the past. I've never used it I'm sure I'll get around to trying it one day. ☺️

  • @nadeaner.cowley513
    @nadeaner.cowley513 3 года назад +2

    Great video!! Thanks for swatching at the end. Great piece, beautiful. Thanks for sharing💚💙

    • @JayNathanWatercolor
      @JayNathanWatercolor  3 года назад

      Thank you. You're very welcome. Thank you for watching and commenting 🙏

  • @starr-starr
    @starr-starr 3 года назад +3

    I just thought it was my tube of Mijello Dark Burnt Sienna that behaved that way! I had put some in a pan and went to use it and literally could not pick up ANY color. I put a lot of water on it overnight and softened it up, and added nearly 10 drops of glycerin to the half pan ( normally I use 1-2). It was hard to rewet again, although it took only a few minutes to rewet this time. It’s a nice color, but it behaves so very different than their other colors which are really easy to rewet. You should be able to get some nice neutral darks with that Carmine And the PG7. I think your palette choices are interesting, the little landscape came out quite nice. The lavender is a nice touch.

    • @JayNathanWatercolor
      @JayNathanWatercolor  3 года назад

      Thank you 🙏 I think Mijello made a bit of a mistake releasing that paint. Some PBr7 paints can sometimes take a little effort to rewet but this one is just ridiculous. Wow you put that many drops of glycerin in there and it still dries hard? That's crazy. I only put 2 drops so I guess I'm in for trouble again? 😭
      Yes the Phthalo Green and Carmine make a good neutral so that's an extra use for the PG7 even if I don't like it for mixing greens.

  • @gabriellabai5260
    @gabriellabai5260 2 года назад +3

    Just a FYI. Holbein palette used to have two types. One was made of steel, while the other type was also aluminum. Unfortunately Holbein later discontinued their steel palettes. Only the aluminum palettes remain on the market. I also heard from a source in Asia that Holbein has actually outsourced their aluminum palette production to Heung IL, although I am not sure about the credibility of this info.

    • @JayNathanWatercolor
      @JayNathanWatercolor  2 года назад +1

      It's a shame they have stopped the steel ones. I know some painters really liked them. Thank you for the information 🙏☺️

  • @peteinuk
    @peteinuk 3 года назад +3

    Cotman cracks also so I hope you put a drop of glycerine as well as the Mijello!

    • @JayNathanWatercolor
      @JayNathanWatercolor  3 года назад +1

      Yes all the Cotman paints got a couple of drops of glycerin too.

  • @TsukabuNosoratori2
    @TsukabuNosoratori2 Год назад +1

    How's the palette working out for you? I have a lot of these colors, and particularly like Lavender for painting snow fields at night. I'm glad to see someone else who appreciates Cad Yellow Light. Though I have the Sennelier version. I also love mixing the Ultramarine blue with Carmine or similar magenta for nice, deep purples.

  • @ganarseunacre
    @ganarseunacre 3 года назад +6

    Hi. Very interesting video, as always. Unfortunately Holbein metal Paletts are overpriced here , I never heard this brand that you show. Another type of metal pallet is forbidden because they are almost handmade and very expensive. I have a 16 metal Talens, which is interesting because you can work with Hake and it is quite acceptable in price. Choosing pigments for a palette is a very personal decision. I am totally in love with qinacrodonne gold Holbein, great for mixing. Are you sure Carmine Rembrandt is PV19? Real Carmine is PR264 and Rembrandt is number 318. A PG7 is always good. Lavender is very interesting, not only for skies, you can get dark and opaque mixtures. Thanks for the video y sure you will work confortably whit this new palette.

    • @JayNathanWatercolor
      @JayNathanWatercolor  3 года назад +2

      Hi. Thank you very much 🙏 Yes I was wrong about the new Rembrandt Carmine. It is PR264 as you say.
      I haven't seen a metal Talens palette before. Sounds very interesting. Do you know anywhere that sells them?

  • @gillinacook1477
    @gillinacook1477 2 года назад +2

    If your not worried about lightfastness - I think you have a lovely pallet.

    • @JayNathanWatercolor
      @JayNathanWatercolor  2 года назад +1

      Oh? Which ones aren't lightfast?

    • @Drumaier
      @Drumaier 2 года назад +1

      @@JayNathanWatercolor I think Gillina doesn't have a clue to be honest, these are all lightfast!

  • @derwood206
    @derwood206 2 года назад +1

    OK, here are my 13 colors; Lemon Yellow (DS), New Gamboge (DS), Geranium (SH), Perylene Dark Red (SH), Ruby Red (SH), Manganese Violet (RS), French Ultramarine (DS), Manganese Blue Hue (DS), Green Apatite Genuine (DS), Quinacridone Gold (DS), Trans Red Oxide (DS), Maroon Brown (SH) Perylene Green Deep (RS) (going to make this palette now and have fun with it)..my palette fits 14, so I'll add Viridian (MG)

  • @PaintinHiding
    @PaintinHiding 3 года назад +3

    wait... i want the new Rembrandt carmine PV19, where did you see that? all i'm seeing is Rembrandt carmine PR264.. VanGogh carmine PRR176. i have the vangogh and love it. :D that quin gold makes me so happy~ 😆 i searched for a few of these palettes after your first vid on it. i was drawn to the 39well one 😂 but realistically won’t get it.

    • @JayNathanWatercolor
      @JayNathanWatercolor  3 года назад +2

      Oh no I got that wrong. You're right the new Carmine is PR264 😭 I must've been thinking the Jackson's Carmine that I used to have which is PV19. Silly me.
      The prices of the palettes seem to have gone up quite a bit since I got it. I think I paid less than 300thb but now they're double that.

    • @PaintinHiding
      @PaintinHiding 3 года назад +2

      @@JayNathanWatercolor awww i was excited for a split second there for a PV19 carmine from rembrandt. that’s okay :)
      yeah, the ones i’ve been looking at are around that, 600THB. i could get one of the 24 pan heavy enamel Fome palettes for the same price. they’re all still on my wishlist though 😅🙈

    • @JayNathanWatercolor
      @JayNathanWatercolor  3 года назад

      What are the Fome palettes? Are they like your Sonnet one but more heavy duty?

  • @peteinuk
    @peteinuk 3 года назад +3

    Good to see you still using the cotmans - if you are low income they are cheap easily available in the UK - even if you live in the country - everyone else uses Daniel Smith - I cannot justify the £££££s!

    • @JayNathanWatercolor
      @JayNathanWatercolor  3 года назад +1

      Cotman are pretty cheap but over here it's cheaper to get Van Gogh and sometimes Mijello can be cheaper too when it's on sale.

    • @peteinuk
      @peteinuk 3 года назад +2

      @@JayNathanWatercolor van gogh is harder to get here and Mijello you can order online whereas most art shops here have cotman. Saves the p+p!

    • @JayNathanWatercolor
      @JayNathanWatercolor  3 года назад +1

      @@peteinuk Oh right yes. Much better when you can just grab it from the local art store.

  • @eileenvalachovic9435
    @eileenvalachovic9435 3 года назад +1

    What a nice palette and choices. Have fun with it.

  • @JessicaCEP
    @JessicaCEP 2 года назад +1

    Good combo

  • @Drumaier
    @Drumaier 2 года назад +1

    Thanks for the video, i was expecting to see how colors mixed on the palette since that is the main selling point of these palettes vs beading plastic ones. But ok, no problem, talking about colors, your selection makes perfect sense and even if i wouldn't suggest to change anything, let me say that green apatite genuine from Daniel Smith and cobal violet by M.Graham are two colors i use all the time despite being secondaries. Two reasons for that....convenience and granulation of both.

  • @KArtandCraft
    @KArtandCraft 3 года назад +2

    Its so wonderful

  • @paulfogarty7724
    @paulfogarty7724 2 года назад +1

    I used these palettes over the years. I find it does'nt matter if the paint is in wells in the lid also. It never drips down once the paint is set...( though Schmencke can take ages to set ). I also turned off Cerulian ..also bored with it. Iove the Winsor blue or Thalo blue ( DS )

  • @ernes103
    @ernes103 2 года назад +2

    Great review as usual, always useful. I also use some colours from Mijello and curiously they don’t dry so much in my palette, I actually use exactly this palette you’re reviewing, quite happy with it, good size mixing areas, light but not too weak, only downside perhaps is that it gets a bit stained with some colours (pthalo blue for example) Regarding the drying of colours, I have tried many brands and curiously one that stays always in the perfect moist condition is Jacksons, they also perform surprisingly well considering the price (it’s literally half than others like DS or WS) I’d be interested in watching a review from you on them

    • @JayNathanWatercolor
      @JayNathanWatercolor  2 года назад +1

      Hi Ernesto. Thank you very much 🙏 I agree that it's a good palette with a decent amount of mixing space. I've not had too much trouble with staining so far so that's good.
      I think the reason Jackson's don't dry so much is because they contain honey. I think Mijello do too but I'm not totally sure about that.
      I have used 3 or 4 tubes of Jackson's watercolors in the past and quite liked them. I'll definitely look into them more in the future.

  • @philipsummers14
    @philipsummers14 3 года назад +2

    Hi….. what I would have liked to see is how the paint sits in the mixing areas. You mentioned the Holbein palette can be metal (older versions) and I’ve read how some artists like the steel palettes for how the paint sits there to be picked-up by a brush. So, anyone wanting a cheaper alternative would be interested to see if this aluminium one acts like a plastic palette or a metal one. Just saying….

    • @JayNathanWatercolor
      @JayNathanWatercolor  3 года назад +2

      Ah yes you're right I should have included that. So far I've found it behaves the same as any metal palette I've used in the past. I would say it's much better to mix on than most plastic palettes. I've never used a steel Holbein though so I can't say if they are nicer to mix on or not. From what I've heard the only real difference between these aluminium copies and the Holbein steel palettes is the build quality and price. Thank you for watching and commenting 🙏

    • @philipsummers14
      @philipsummers14 3 года назад

      @@JayNathanWatercolor Maybe an opportunity for another video. Mixing paint on plastic palette Vs Aluminium. I agree that price and feeling flimsy were comments made about the Heung IL palette. Metal ones can rust.
      Anyway, having these palettes with multiple mixing areas seem to be earning praise. Keeping an area for reds and another for blues another for yellows etc…. Makes sense.

  • @martinaakervik
    @martinaakervik 2 года назад +2

    Thanks for a nice video. What red color did you use on the roof?

    • @JayNathanWatercolor
      @JayNathanWatercolor  2 года назад +2

      You're welcome ☺️. It was the Cotman Light Red.

    • @martinaakervik
      @martinaakervik 2 года назад +1

      @@JayNathanWatercolor thanks for answering. I tried to paint this (I’m a beginner) …had to put some natural tint in my red to get it as dark. Idk but to me it seems like a dark red not light red, lol. Having a hard time getting the colours as I want. But this red I actually was able to mix. (Not the greens though, lol.)

  • @takochikhradze4555
    @takochikhradze4555 3 года назад +2

    I have similar palette in plastic and it is very convenient

    • @JayNathanWatercolor
      @JayNathanWatercolor  3 года назад +1

      I've seen the plastic ones with similar layouts to this one in the art store but for some reason have never got one. Not sure why.

    • @takochikhradze4555
      @takochikhradze4555 3 года назад +1

      @@JayNathanWatercolor to be honest metal ones are better than plastic, somehow paint distribution in mixing process is more even. Interesting choice of colours, but i wonder what paints do you mix to get closest to black? I recently started to incorporate black more intense in my paintings and discovered that it is very stubborn colour to recreate

    • @JayNathanWatercolor
      @JayNathanWatercolor  3 года назад +3

      I would usually mix my darks with ultramarine + either burnt sienna or burnt umber. In this palette the Viridian PG7 + Carmine might also make a good dark. Also the Cadmium Red Light + Intense Blue.

  • @TammyNewmanArt
    @TammyNewmanArt 3 года назад +2

    Love these types of videos, thank you for uploading it. I’m interested in your opinion of mixing honey based paint with non-honey based, I’ve heard conflicting opinions about how they mix in washes. Have you experienced any issues? Also I love the colour choices you’ve made, especially how you’ve used the lavender in your painting - just beautiful 😊

    • @JayNathanWatercolor
      @JayNathanWatercolor  3 года назад +1

      Thank you very much Tammy 🙏 I can't say I've ever had a problem or noticed any difference when mixing honey based and non-honey based paints. Maybe there is a difference but it doesn't really show up in the way I paint? Have you experienced any issues mixing them?

    • @TammyNewmanArt
      @TammyNewmanArt 3 года назад +1

      @@JayNathanWatercolor Tbh I’ve avoided it as I heard that it can cause issues, I must give it a go 😊

    • @JayNathanWatercolor
      @JayNathanWatercolor  3 года назад

      @@TammyNewmanArt let us know what you find 😊🙏

  • @danielesainidesign
    @danielesainidesign 2 года назад +1

    Hi does this palette box keeps the colours fresh? I mean without drying?
    I have found it on amazon, do you suggest me to buy it? Thx

  • @yuillustrationandsketch9677
    @yuillustrationandsketch9677 8 месяцев назад

    Hi , how is the palette working ? I ve seen someone who has the same type of palette when colors are dry , the fall out of the wells . I m looking to buy this type of palette but that worries me. Thank you for sharing your experiences.

  • @michemman
    @michemman 2 года назад +2

    May I ask Jay, how do you use the viridian, in mixes, with this particular palette of colours?
    Kop Kun Ka
    In kindred spirit
    Eliza
    Australia

    • @JayNathanWatercolor
      @JayNathanWatercolor  2 года назад +1

      Hi Eliza. Well the Viridian in this palette is actually a phthalo green PG7. It's not a real Viridian pigment. Mijello just call it Viridian.
      I would usually mix it with the Quinacridone Gold, yellow ochre or burnt sienna to create some natural greens. Or use it to neutralise the carmine. You can also mix it with a blue to create a turquoise.

    • @michemman
      @michemman 2 года назад +1

      @@JayNathanWatercolor Did PG7 neutralize well with the carmine? The carmine looks gentle? PG7 is the thing on my palette that isn't often used, and if it is, I only make a nearly black with it, with a really strong rose PV19. Really I could mix a black from it and keep that in my palette instead! All other palettes I don't have it in, except for Jane Blundell's mixing palette. She is a friend of mine here. When I asked her about it, and even the vermillion, she likes them both to find the neutral opposite...to mix darks with. I have most of my darks that I love....so I find it is last in choice! Her book is great for colour mixing ideas, and she has a triad book out now too.
      In kindred spirit
      Eliza
      Australia