Pistol Optics: 25M Zero vs 10M Zero
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- Опубликовано: 29 окт 2022
- Which pistol red dot optic zero distance is better you?
The point of this video is to give you insight as to which pistol red dot zero might be right for you. It will always come down to shooter preference but this video will give you plenty of food for thought and considerations for yourself. I highly recommended experimenting with different zero distances to see which zero/holdoff combo best fits your application for your pistols.
Pistol optics come in all sizes and capabilities. I personally recommend a 3.25 MOA dot and a 1 MOA adjustable optic. For astigmatisms, I recommend a bigger dot.
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The hardest part for me is trying to separate user error from my equipment from the ammo I'm using. This video is really helpful in that regard. Subbed and liked.
This gave me the frustration of chasing a zero without chasing a zero.
Optimal stability was something I was struggling with in this video but stability, slow shots and trigger control will mitigate chasing zeroes.
Awesome as always. I went from a 25 to a 10 a while back because I found that my eyes just couldn’t track at 25. I learned my holds and confirmed at distance.
I actually split the difference. I go by yardage instead of meters and I zero at 15 yards. It’s a great happy medium between 10 and 25 and honestly, I don!t worry about hold overs or hold unders. On the average at a 15 yard zero, at 5 yards I’m averaging 1/2 inch low and at 25 yards 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch high. My red dot pistol is my EDC self defense tool and not a competition pistol. So I found for my needs, that works out really well.
So far that seems to be the best solution people have come to
@@JeepCherokeeful Yep. I’m a complete noob when it comes to shooting with an optic. I started with an optic only about 4 months ago after over 30 years shooting with irons. I saw so many conflicting videos. Some swear 10 yards, others swear 25. After trial and error, 15 yards was the distance I could still get really good test groups with. 25 yards I felt I couldn’t get consistent enough groups to know for sure if I was zeroing it in good.
Same, brother! 🎉
@@TheAxe4Ever i know a few optic companies even recommend a 15 yard zero for their carry dots. When I first started carrying with a dot, i had the same issues as you and learned to go 15 yards and never look back. I just wish I could get some of that ammo back
Same here! Most HD is about 10 to 15... sometimes, an arm length too! Now that personal encounters! 😂
This is def one of the most realistic zero videos I’ve seen. I’ve gone through a whole box of my defense ammo trying to zero while eliminating user error. A lot of other videos on the subject will get a perfect 0 after 6-9 shots which never happens for me.
Thank you for not editing out anything. This what we all go through more or less.
It’s more or less everyone’s process and experience. As long as you get zeroed at the end.
After watching countless videos on red dot zeroing, this one has gone a long way to help my understanding of the subject. As we say over our side of the pond, "the dog can now see the rabbit" !
Thankyou sir ✌❤ Bob.
One of the best zeroing videos I've seen. Great job. You've helped this noob a lot!
Thank you 🙏🏽
This is such a good video for red dot zeroing pistols. Thanks for making this. Even though it’s not a very complicated thing I got a lot out of it seeing the whole process and the holdover distances compared.
Thank you. Glad it was helpful.
Great video man.
Glad your out there helping people get this part right.
Glad to help
I think you should zero your pistol at 10m until you get experienced enough to zero at 25m. If you cant shoot 10 rounds into the black of a B-8 target at 25m.....probably shouldnt zero at 25m
Awesome video!! Well done man, well done!!
Awesome stuff, brother. I always look forward to seeing your content 🤙🏼
Thanks man. I appreciate that. Been on a bit of a hiatus but coming back soon 👊🏽
Thanks for the Great advice..!!!
Best zero video. Seen a bunch this is the only video taking time do it right. Thanks
Very informative video, thanks, and a range all to yourself doesn't happen very often
Awesome vid… learned a lot on this one 💯💯💯👍🏼👍🏼
Glad to hear it!
Excellent thank you.
Love the video! Unedited. Even a great shooter, yanks or pulls a few, us regular guys have a chance! Keep up the great work!!
haha We all miss. It's just about how much they want to show you their misses. I'll show them all lol
I find it harder to zero at 25 yards,compared to 10 yards.I am new back to shooting.I grew up shooting iron sights,and am new to this whole optic stuff.Thanx for the information,and this video on what I was wondering,you actually answered the questions I was wondering,subbed and liked also man!!!
Happy to help! Glad you got something out of it
Great info. Zeroing a pistol is the hardest thing I have ever done. Took me 100 rds of chasing my zero to finally get it done. Couldn’t get it at 25 yd so I went with 10.
loooool
Everyone learns at different paces.
Very useful information, things I didn't know
Glad it was helpful!
Your a good guy. Thanks
Thank you for this demonstration and explanation. Excellent information.
Edit: I opted a 10 yard zero, found that with my carry ammo and carry gun it hits 1” below at 25 yards.
The bag may not be the perfect rest, but learning how to deal with it and make the best of the results you're getting is absolutely valuable.
Imagine you take a trip to a match, you get there just in time to notice the dot got bumped off zero during travel, and you only have time to take a few shots off an improvised rest before the match starts.
It's a little different, but I was hunting one day and noticed the screw came loose on my scope mount. I could either pack up and drive no telling how far to a real range with a proper rest and miss out on the rest of my hunt or get in an improvised shooting position and shoot at a paper plate with a Sharpie mark for a bullseye at camp to get back on the deer stand that afternoon.
Was I going to be able to put one between the deer's eyes at 400 yards? No. But I was confident I could make an ethical kill to 100 yards, which was about the longest shot I had on that stand, anyway.
Solid video.
Very good point. Field expedient zeros have come in handy in the past and can be good enough for what’s needed in the moment 👊🏽
You should have also zeroed at 15 yards, which results in less holds overall and is best for 50 meters as well. If you go to ballistic charts , I think you will find those charts and graphs confirm 15 yards not only best for zeroto 25 yards, but also best for 50 yards
Nice cosideration about the grouping at 25y vs 10y ... nice instructional video
Glad you liked it!
I would have liked to see you shoot at 10 yards after your 25 yard group at the end. (Even with it being alittle high)
I’ll be re-making this video soon and we’ll improve it 👊🏽
Everyone remember that not everyone’s optic will be the same height everyone’s height over bore will be different like with my xmacro. I never have more than an inch deviation from 0 to 25.
Great comment
I just got my X Macro and I have a holosun 507K X2 . Would you recommend a 25 yard zero?
@@Alexx.Tradess Try both
For what its worth? I use a bag on top of a tripod. I find my stance and grip pressure/angle is more consistent and replicates my stance
You may want to try a woodblock or pistol tripod. I think the soft rifle bag has your shots all over the place. A better video would be after you have an exact zero at 10m then 25m. Then just show the holderovers for each zero. Anyways, thanks for your time
Thanks man. I wasn’t the most stable and it wasn’t the best groups due to that but you understood the point and process so the video is still a success but not the best for demonstration. I could have redone it and shown amazing groups but this is the realism of zeroing. It holds more value than a perfect zero video imo. Hold offs are something to learn through its execution, not a video.
The best zero in my opinion 15 yards is the best of all zeros for the average shooter. For law enforcement 20 yards is the max you want to do with a 2.5moa or less remember red dots on pistols are made for fast accurate shots at close ranges it they can be accurate at longer distances but you have to account moving and shooting from uncomfortable angles and window of opportunity shots like only having less than 2 seconds to make a shot before having to take cover or move. There’s really no reason for 25 yard shots to be made with pistols at that point you have enough space to grab your rifle or get in your vehicle to move to another position or wait for cover
I did my vortex venom between 20-25 yds. It was dead on at 10. I prefer zeroing further out
Me too man. It’s preferred by most experienced shooters.
Really Like Your Content. May I repost you and tag you? Thank you so much
Ok so it’s not just me then. My 25 they spread out a bit.
I do check where they hit at different distances so I’m ok with it.
I would zero at the distance I can hit a dinner plate 9 out of 10 times easily, and that varies from person to person. I guess most people would pick 10 to 20 meters.
I'll go with 25
This might be a dumb question but should the target and your gun be level with each other when doing this? (If the gun is 5 feet off the ground should the target be 5 feet off the ground?)
No, your target and gun never need to be level with one another. The trajectory of the round isn’t based on height but more so distance, to the target.
@@2AlphaTrainingGroup Thank you.
All makes sense but you struggled with user error, investing in just average quality stand would sure eliminate lots of it. Also for purpose of pro video I would recommend accurate firearm where slide rail rides inside the lower vs outside vs on top. Sig P210 or CZ Shadow2 would be ideal. Your groups would be consistent and added benefit ~ you would save some bullets.
Laser bore zeroing sounds like a better idea after watching this...
Moral of the story. If you are a good enough shooter, the 25y zero is better. Basically any distance inside 25y will hit low, with the maximum hold being your dots height over bore.
With a 10y hold you will need to make on the fly distance estimates because you will hit low inside 10y and high outside of 10y.
And to put it simpler. Zero at the longest distance your ability allows you to be reliable. Why fight a two way miss?
The 10y zero point of aim / impact shifts are minimal at best and less than an inch low at 25 yards. With the 10 you can literally trust the dot from 1-25y and send it without worry of having to deal with any kind of holds while the 25y zero has rather drastic changes within 15 yards which is over 98% of all handgun fights. I have a hard time understanding the 25y zero for anything outside of competition shooting.
My eyes can’t see clear enough to zero at 25, so I do a 10 and I learn my holdovers at all other distances.
I always stress that your holdoffs are more important than your zero distance. 👊🏽👊🏽
Larry.. I think the 10 yd zero is best for self defense shootings. Thats 30 ft. If you engage outside that you may have trouble in court. Meaning you had a chance to get away from gun fire. 10 yards is my choice.
But you’re risking betting on a close engagement vs preparing for a longer engagement and having to only compensate 1.5” for a closer engagement. But at the end of the day, the zero isn’t what matters. What does matter is you’re understanding and application of hold offs at distances outside your zero 👊🏽
🤡
i dont know man...i used to think like that but what about mass shooter situations where u have to take shots farter away, or some random crazy guy standing in the middle of hte street randomly shooting at passerbys? (happened around my area)
Okay this might be a ignorant question but hear me out
If he is zeroed at 10M why is his shots at 25M landing high... shouldn't they land low since the target is further away thus the bullet should drop and land lower or am I missing something.
I also would have loved to see you shoot back at 10 meters at the end after done seroing at 25. Loved the video thank you for the valuable information.
Good question. Because you have to consider the trajectory of the bullet. It has to go up before losing the fight to gravity and going back down. So at 25m the bullet is still on a upward trajectory before it comes back down. Consider line of sight with your optic versus line of flight for the bullet. Those two lines have to intersect at two points. Thats why we say 50/200m for rifle zeros or 25/300m. Those two lines will always intersect at two distances. Same for pistols. I'll post an older video I did on holdoff and point of aim vs point of impact soon!
Ammo dependent as well. He is shooting a lighter and faster projectile. That will travel different than a heavier and slower one. That is why this is such a great video and talk from him. Showcases why ammo choice (even training) and zeroing is important.
Most people can’t shoot a pistol accurately enough to get a good 25m zero lol. 10 yards is good enough. I’ve taken a 10 yard zero and have hit human size torso steel at 100 yards.
Possibly. While zeroes are important, they’re not more important then understanding the hold offs at different distance outside of that zero. You know your holdoff at 100m with a 10m zero so that’s great.
Instead of winding past the adjustment, just tap the optic with your palm. Looks like you're rushing your shots. Also your rifle bag is moving as you shoot so the shots are inconsistent. Use a hard pistol rest.
Yeah the rifle bag wasn’t ideal but I didn’t have my sandbag either. I might have rushed a few but not all. The winding past and coming back was taught to me by an optic engineer at Aimpoint, so I’ll stick to that method.
Do you slave your red dot to your front sight? If not do you zero your pistol sites and then zero your red dot sites totally separate?
I like to zero at further distances
I was just having this discussion yesterday while shooting. I was zeroing my B&T APC9K pro and I was going back and forth on what yardage I should zero it. Truth is I’ll be using this for home defense or very close range stuff. So why not a 10 yard zero since it will be mostly used around that yardage. But then again I can see a 25 yard being a good option as well. Bottomline is as long as you know your zero and holdover I guess it doesn’t really matter.
I generally use whatever the longest distance in my house is, previously it was 25 yards. Since I moved it is now 10 yards. If you have property and worried about wildlife I would consider that distance (maybe not 9mm)
I prefer to zero at 25m incase I have to take a longer shot. Indiana shooter shot at 40 yards. What would happen to your 10m zero at 40 yards?
@@InkwellFoto Your house distance isn’t necessarily the best way to determine your zero. Read my other comment.
@@2AlphaTrainingGroup that’s good a point. It’s kinda what I struggle with. Cause technically I’ll only be using this gun for inside my home. But I see what you mean
@@danielsullivan7740 If it’s strictly home defense then a 10-15m zero is obviously best but considering hold offs for a 25m zero, your POA VS POI is only 1.5 inches high at worst.
I have an XC and it groups much tighter than this w/ just 124g S&B. My C2 does as well. With 124GDot I can stack them most days.
Your XC and mine are the same lol. My grouping here isn’t the best because my bench rest wasn’t ideal but the show must go on.
@@2AlphaTrainingGroup Have you tried again and got better groups? I kinda have a crap rest as well, and I know at 25m at least for me sometimes even seeing that X w/ the 6.5 MOA dot can be difficult. For me I noticed at 10y zeored I"m high and higher at 15 yards! So I zero at 15 and that puts me a tad high at 25 and about dead nuts at 15/10
I can't even see the damn bullseye at 25 yards.
16 yards
damn im a pro, im a new shooter with a new dot and i zeroed mine 10 yards standing up. and commonly i get 5 shots that hit exactly on the same hole so it looks like the paper was only hit by 1 bullet 😂
I mean if you can stack the bullets that well man time to speed it up.
What type of file are those targets you got for download? ...do you have them in pdf version please?
Yessir. If you go to the “Downloads” section of the website, you’ll see them and yes, they’re PDF 👊🏽
@@2AlphaTrainingGroup TY for the quick reply,not to contradict what you know about your target on your page,but as it is now,it's in .JPEG format not PDF ,and it's not even downloadable but it can be copied as an image only 😒
@@BabaNovac792 Thank you for bringing that to my attention. I’ll have a look and see what we can do to make it easier 🙏🏽👊🏽
Good, common-sense guidance. Thanks!
💯💯🔝🔝👌👍
Thank you.
I guess I don’t understand red dots. With iron sites at these distance the bullet has no drop and I aim directly at the target.
I understand, but still confused. Guess this just helps my expectations.
What’s your question?
25 yards or 75 ft right? On video it looks shorter.
25 meters, or yards. It won’t matter that much. But it was measured at 25 meters.
I zero at 18 yards magic number 😉😎
Whatever works for you man.
How about somewhere in the middle?
You can zero from whatever distance you want. It has little significance because unless you deliberately move yourself away or close to a target just to shoot it at your zero distance, what’s more important is knowing your hold offs from outside your zero distance and how to apply them 👊🏽
With a 10 yard zero on my gun and ammo I get about 3/4” high at 25 yards
Those ballistics don’t quite make sense but barrel length, ammo make, grain and weight are huge factors so if that’s the case, then you’re better off than most 👊🏽
@@2AlphaTrainingGroup I think he is basing that off Scott Jedlinski from Modern Samurai Project who is a cold dead RDS shooter. He says he likes the 10 yd zero because only .7" high at 25 yd.
@@christ.5258 Yeah but unless we’re testing a specific ammo load and barrel length at 10m, those numbers at 25m will significantly fluctuate. A 10-yard zero isn’t going to give you a .7” low hold at 25m…unless he put that gun in a vice. But even then, I’d say it’s more than just a .7” hold at 25m. The human shake factor alone wouldn’t consistently show .7” high. When I say 3-4” high at 25m it’s because I’m accounting for average shooters’ experience in accuracy and the shakiness of the shooter. Got any videos recs of him demonstrating his 10y zero at 25m?
15 yards zero is perfect
What’s your hold off and drop off out to 50 yards?
My opinion is that you work on your trigger pull respectfully
You doing anything in vermont soon
PA in March. It's on the website.
When I zero at 10M I hit in the throat at 25 meters. If I zero at 25 it’s only an inch or so low inside of 10 meters.
It should higher at 25m because that gives the projectile 15m more to rise. You need to consider your optics line of sight vs the bullet’s line of flight and gravity. It’s the same as a 50/200m rifle zero. At 50m, your POA vs POI are equal but at 100m, you will be hitting high with that same POA and need to aim lower to still hit center. Make sense?
I wasn’t confused on why it was happening 😂 I was stating the offset from a 10 yard zero shooting at 25 is significantly more than a 25 yard zero shooting at 10.
@@brianstuart4203 haha Sorry brother, I clearly misread. And you’re absolutely right. I zero all my pistol optics at 25m 👊🏽
I actually went with a 15 yard zero. I hated how much holding you have to do from 10 yards and in with the 25y zero. 15 completely eliminated the issues I was having.
Yep, not a bad zero distance. You also have to consider that most people drop a lot accuracy outside of 15m because they don’t train enough. For more experienced shooters, 25m is preferred.
Have you found a difference between 10 and 15?
@@kaioken1110 No I haven’t. Haven’t tried it. You should try it and let me know. It’s just a matter of zeroing twice. In between the zeros, move your elevation and windage to random spots so you’re not messing with the previous zero. And be way more stable than me. I thought that bag was going to be enough but it’s was to firm. When shooting, keep the dot centered on the view pane 👊🏽
@2Alpha Training Group next range trip I'm going to move out from 10 to 15 zero and see how they works out. Drive to the range today but they closed early haha!
My buddy and I found that 15yrds is the flatest zero. Makes it easy to hit small targets up close and out to 25yds relatively easy. We experimented with both and shoot competition and regularly get top 15 at our local 2 gun match.
How are you discounting missed shots stating you did it. Your bench resting how difficult can it be, and I seriously would get some lessons on trigger control if you're pulling shots while bench resting.
Lol okay
Poop ammo make a difference in zeroing
Try shooting with both eyes open. Its a red dot sight bro not irons.
I do shoot with both eyes open, however I zero with one eye closed, bro.
That's a ton of ammo just to zero. It shouldn't be that way man. Either get a new barrel, new ammo or practice your aim.
Not sure what you mean. I demonstrated two different zeros for instructional purposes. If I only needed to zero for myself, I would have been done in less than a mag. The only bad thing that day was I didn’t have something better to bench rest on. New barrel? It’s a new gun and new ammo lol
@@2AlphaTrainingGroup just cause it's a new gun doesn't mean it's accurate. Same with ammo. That's why there are match barrels and match ammo. Anyway, some guns like different ammo better.
@@380stroker I can respect that and vouch as well. I’ve experienced that more with rifles than pistols.
@@2AlphaTrainingGroup Go to the 6:46 mark on this vid. ruclips.net/video/mudA-PZ_OiA/видео.html
Watching the 25m shot group being consistently inconsistent, I was also thinking hardware issue. I would definitely try some different ammo.
I wouldn’t be taken zeroing advice from this fella
Why’s that?
Dude spent 50 shots to zero.
Correction, I spent 50 shots zeroing twice, at two different distances, using a near method for large adjustments and further out for small.
Your grouping at the 25 meter distance should mimic your 5 meter distance with the target you designed. The physical distance shouldn't have changed anything, they should all be touching
Not true at all. Spread happens at every distance. I also wasn’t as stable as I could be, it was an issue in this video.
You zero with your defensive load genius, unless the gun is completely for competition and never use for edc or hd
😂 You truly are a genius, for thinking that’s the only way to zero. Come join me on IG and we’ll take a poll on how many people only zero with their defensive round.
@2AlphaTrainingGroup I'm not saying it's the only way, lol. But seriously, if the pistol is for self-defense edc 100% zero with your defensive ammo, if you don't do that, something's wrong with you. If it's a range toy, do whatever you want. No one cares
@@johnhek4191Duty gun, yes. EDC, not really.
Home defense maybe, depending on your personal circumstances. My disagreement with you is, you trying to give an absolute answer, to a wide spectrum of shooting applications. Also no where in the video did I say that you should or shouldn’t zero with whatever you want. I was just stating the ammo that I’m using in the video but you came in hot, trying to check me with your expertise lol and you’re not exactly right. Also, the poll is doing well on IG.
Wow! You're so precise. You totally took out all the human errors... What ever. Anyone can do that with iron sights. Giving, they practice... Red dots are a waist of money, unless they are on a rifle.... At over one hundred yards, or meters.. What ever... Personal experience... People are aloud there own preference...
No one is trying to push a red dot on you but red dots are the future and iron sights will become more and more obsolete. Train how you want. Your fight won’t be the same as my fight.
Tf?
shots are all over the place and you're walking in front of a loaded gun regardless the safety is on...thats bad and regarding the shots, try from hands only, not the bouncy bag
Yeah the bad wasn’t the best support but walking in front of a loaded gun, while alone on a range? I guess I got lucky the gun didn’t shoot me on it’s own #liberalpropaganda 😂😂
@@2AlphaTrainingGroup Veeeeeery far from liberal.. I just see it this way, finger is off the trigger, the gun won’t shoot by itself i still don’t flag anyone else and i also don’t flag myself, not by holding the gun and also not by laying it down and walking in front of it…if it’s dynamic training with other people on the range, its a different thing sometimes, but flagging is a no go for me..
guess it’s different gunsafety standards, all good man 🤷♂️😄👍🏻
@@user-nf5sb7rc3e Disagree. Same safety standards, just different levels of common sense. Don’t take offense. I agree with no flagging but I’m alone at the range…
@@2AlphaTrainingGroup naah all good, i dont take offense at all.
you agree to no flagging but flagging yourself is okay when you’re alone, that’s some common sense. Would be interesting to take 100 strangers and ask them to stand repeatedly in front of their loaded gun for fun and see how many would say no problem. could be the next video😜
You’re mistaking common sense with principles and disregarding firearms safety rules, all in the name of -I’m alone on the range. If that’s your thing, its okay. Its not mine and i never saw someone doing it and i won’t do it. After all its your decision 🤷♂️
@@user-nf5sb7rc3e Haha okay
R u walking in front of a loaded gun?
When?
...and if he did...what about it? (putting aside the fact that you don't know the round count he had or not in that gun, let aside the fact that you don't see where the gun is pointing)
Guns don't "go off" if you pass their line of sight. They aren't sentient beings haha
Stopped watching when zero adjustments couldnt be remembered in 10m 💀🤦🏼♂️😂
Thanks for the feedback. I’ll delete the video 🤡
Did he really walk downrange with a loaded pistol pointing in his general direction? Lol and at one point he loads a mag into the empty gun right before walking downrange, consciously making that poor decision 🤔
There is safe and then there is a lack of common sense safe. You sir are lacking common sense. The gun is loaded but it’s an inanimate object so it can’t shoot me by itself. Even if it were alive, it’s mine so naturally it likes me enough not to shoot me.
Sometimes when my cars running and parked, I don’t step in front because it might hit the brake, shift out of park into drive, press the gas and run me over.. don’t get me started on reverse.. 😅
SPEEK UP LIBROL!! QUIT WISPERIN!!
WhAt iF tHe BaG cAmE aLiVe aNd iT sHoT HiM WiTh tHaT lOaDeD PiStOl!? Everyone knows that range bags are inherently evil and will shoot you with your guns given the chance.
@@2AlphaTrainingGroup you made a correct statement regarding the gun being an inanimate object, but still, are we forgetting about the simple commandments of gun safety, one of those being never have the gun pointed toward something you are not willing to destroy. The only reason I say this is because you are attempting to educate people, yet walking down range in front of a loaded gun is far from what you want to be teaching. Why not use this as an opportunity to teach quite the opposite and set a good example?
I cant tell if this guy is trolling.
I am not
You should always make either Vertical ore Horizontal adjustments, Never both at the same time. Never heard of spring and mechanisms settling. Couldn't watch the entire video...too much BS talk and wasted ammo.
Never adjust my windage* or elevation* at the same time??? RUclips wins again 🥸
Lol why does he do a zero at ten yards than he deletes that zero and re zeros what why .
Maybe read the title of the video again and understand it’s purpose 🤷🏻