3000gt vr4 ignition timing 🔥 engine tuning [ think I got it figured out lol ]
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- Опубликовано: 20 окт 2024
- think I got the 3000gt vr4 ignition timing / engine tuning finally figured out need new fuel but I think the vr4 going to run great here soon
Twin turbo Mitsubishi 3000gt vr4 DOHC AWD
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Jumping the wire to ground basically overrides any advance and sets the timing point to a basic timing like before computers when you disconnected the vacuum advance before setting the timing. So you ground the wire and the timing should read 5 degrees BTDC, if not, you need to adjust it to that point by turning the timing at the end of the cam. You are basically calibrating the the timing with the wire grounded at 5 degrees BTDC. Then you unhook the wire and the computer kicks in and advances it to around 15 degrees BTDC and controls the advance from there according to the input signals it receives to always give you optimal timing., if when the wire is disconnected your advance does not increase, you might have cam position sensor issues.
That is the simple reason for the jumper to ground and an further is explanation of how to properly set the timing according to the factory manual.
IGNITION TIMING CHECK
1992 models >
(1) The vehicle should be prepared as follows before the
inspection and adjustment.
l Engine coolant temperature: 80-95°C (176-203°F)
l Lights, electric cooling fan and accessories: OFF
l Transaxle: neutral (P for AIT)
(2) Insert a paper clip to the engine speed detection connector
(blue), and connect a tachometer to the paper clip.
FYI
( The speed detection connector) is located in the same area as the timing connector you shorted to ground along with another dead end wire that is usually black or black with a red stripe that is a test wire to apply positive to, it is used to send +12v power leg directly to the fuel pump. It is basically a fuel pump test point, it ties into the wiring at the point where the relay sends power to the fuel pump so it can also be used to connect to a volt meter to see if your getting positive 12v to your fuel pump.)
NOTE
Do not use any scan tool. If tested with the scan tool
connected to the data link connector, the ignition timing
will not be the basic timing but be ordinary timing.
ANOTHER NOTE
If your OBD2 scan tool does not connect to the computer, it is because the earlier year 3000gts had a hybrid OBD system so don't do as I did and think you have a problem, you have to get a special connector tool over 100 bucks to be able to interface your OBD2 scanner to connect.) I experienced this with my 94 model, not sure about later models.)
(3) Set the timing light.
(4) Start the engine and run at idle.
(5) Check curb idle speed.
Curb idle speed: 700 f 100 rpm
NOTE
(The engine speed indicated you will read from this port is a third of actual speed.
In other words, the reading of the tachometer times 3
is actual speed, this is because there are 3 ignition power transistors, each transistor firing 2 cylinders. Your cars tach gets a signal from only one transistor so it has to multiply the signal X3 to get the proper RPM. You are getting a raw signal from 1 transistor which is a third of the actual engine revolutions. so connecting a tach at that point requires multiplying your reading by 3 to get the actual engine rpm.)
(6) Turn OFF the ignition switch.
(7) Remove the water-proof female connector from the ignition timing adjustment connector (brown).
(8) Using a jumper wire, ground the ignition timing adjusting
terminal.
NOTE
Grounding this terminal sets the engine to the basic ignition
timing.
(9) Start the engine and run at idle.
(1O)Check basic ignition timing.
Basic ignition timing: 5” BTDC f 2“
(1l)lf not within the standard value range, loosen the crank
angle sensor mounting nut and adjust by turning the crank
angle sensor. Turning it to the counterclockwise retards
timing, and to the clockwise advances it.
(12)After adjustment, tighten mounting nut taking care not
to move the crank angle sensor.
(13)Turn OFF the ignition switch.
(14)Disconnect the jumper wire connected at step (8).
(15)Check to be sure that the idling ignition timing is the
correct timing.
Actual ignition timing: Approx. 15” BTDC
NOTE
(1) Ignition timing is variable within about +7”, even-under
normal operation.
(2) And it is automatically further advanced by about
5 from 15” BTDC at higher altitudes.
IGNITION TIMING CHECK
FROM 1993 MODELS
(1) The vehicle should be prepared as follows before the
inspection and adjustment.
l Engine coolant temperature: 80-95°C (176-203°F)
l Lights, electric cooling fan and accessories: OFF
l Transaxle: neutral (P for A/T)
(2) Insert a paper clip to the engine speed detection connector
(blue), and connect a tachometer to the paper clip.
NOTE
Do not use the scan tool. If tested with the scan tool
connected to the data link connector, the ignition timing
will not be the basic timing but be ordinary timing.
(3) Set the timing light.
(4) Start the engine and run at idle.
(5) Check curb idle speed.
Curb idle speed: 700 + 100 rpm
NOTE
The engine speed indicated is a third of actual speed.
In other words, the reading of the tachometer times 3
is actual speed.
(6) Turn OFF the ignition switch.
(7) Disconnect the waterproof female connector from the ignition timing adjusting connector (brown).
(8) Using a jumper wire, ground the ignition timing adjusting
terminal.
NOTE
Grounding this terminal sets the engine to the basic ignition
timing.
(9) Start the engine and run at idle.
(10)Check basic ignition timing.
Basic ignition timing: PBTDC rt 3”
TSB Revision
Downloaded from
ENGINE - On-vehicle Service II-I I
(1l)lf basic ignition timing is not within the standard range,
check the crankshaft position sensor by reference to
GROUP 13A - On-vehicle Inspection of MFI Components.
(12)Disconnect the jumper wire connected at step (8).
(13)Check to be sure that the idling ignition timing is the
correct timing.
Actual ignition timing: Approx. 15” BTDC
NOTE
(1) Ignition timing is variable within about *7”, even under
normal operating.
(2) And it is automatically further advanced by about
5” from 15”BTDC at higher altitudes.
CURB IDLE SPEED CHECK
(1) The vehicle should be prepared as follows before the
inspection.
l Engine coolant temperature: 80-95°C (176-203°F)
l Lights, electric cooling fan and accessories: OFF
l Transaxle: neutral (P for A/T)
(2) Connect a tachometer. (Refer to P.ll-9.)
(3) Set a timing light.
(4) Using a jumper wire, ground the ignition timing adjusting
terminal.
(5) Start the engine and let it idle.
(6) Check the ignition timing is the standard value; if not,
adjust.
Standard value:
5” BTDC + 2” 4992 models>
5” BTDC f 3”
NOTE
Check the ignition timing with the scan tool not connected
to the data link connector.
(7) Remove the jumper wire from the ignition timing adjusting
terminal.
(8) When using the scan tool, turn OFF the ignition switch
and connect the tester to the data link connector.
(9) Idle the engine for two minutes.
(10)Check the idle speed.
Curb idle speed: 700 f 100 rpm.
Thanks man I'm running a AEM series 2 ECU now so I do it all from the laptop but your comment will help out anybody with a stock ECU
@@huracanian3051 . You're welcome, I was hoping to help others.
I have been troubleshooting a crank no start problem for days now, first had to determine if was fuel or ignition problem. Scanner not linking threw me off thinking ECM issue. Traced ignition circuit checked Cam PS and Crank PS input to ECM, got signals to ECM and traced signal to ignition transistors, all good so I am suspecting the transistor pack since my tach also does not move when cranking and the transistor pack sends the tach pulse to the ecm. I have several factory manuals downloads that it took a while to figure out how to use it to do my tracing, without it I would have been like the guy in the video clueless where to start. Here is the link where you can download them, I think it still works.
drive.google.com/open?id=1t8dbdxTE2RyBobqN7k_SzuebIQTMQF9O
If you made it this far reading all this, here is the answer to the problem.
Here is what the problem was, there is a short vacuum line coming from the fuel pressure regulator to a connector that goes to the output of the vacuum control valve on the firewall, The hose is about 4 inches long and bends upwards to connect to the fuel pressure regulator. This hose ends up over time cracking at the bend on the underneath side of the hose where you can't see it. When you lose vacuum to the fuel pressure regulator it closes trapping all the pressure the fuel pump can pump to the injectors causing your injectors to spray a very very rich fuel mixture and foul your plugs, from there you are screwed, because you have to remove the intake to change your plugs and if you don't notice the small crack in the hose when the intake is off, your car will either not run at all, or will run like the car in this video where they guy thought it was bad gas. Anyway it will be frustrating continually fouling plugs not knowing the reason why especially when removing the intake is the only way to change 3 of the plugs.
This is some little known info for people having problems getting their 3000gt to start, or run right as the guy in this video was struggling with, hopefully this info helps someone. It is worth the read, sorry I'm so long winded I try to be thorough since it took me a long time to learn all this.
I had to post it in different comments because it was so long, so read on my next post if interested
I bought a 93 3000gt SL for $400 not running just for the forged crank for my 92 vr4, the guy had torn it apart and looked like put just enough back together to see if he could get it to start. I was curious what he was unable to figure out, it would barely fire at first then nothing just crank, so where to start. I thought I would hook up my scanner to see if there were any codes so when I did it would not connect to the ECM, I was thinking possibly a bad ECM. Then I find out Mitsubishi in 1994 had a Hybrid diagnostic system right before OB2 came out, so that is why my scanner would not connect, someone made a special scanner interface you have to buy to be able to use an OB2 standard scanner to connect, so if your scanner won't connect, the interface costs over 100 bucks and some guy sells them on eBay. You can ground a certain pin on the diagnostic port ( look up which one) and it causes the engine light to flash long flashes to count the first number of the code and short flashes to count the second number to get any codes. If it flashes consistently in short flashes, there are no stored codes.
My symptom besides not starting was my tachometer would not move when I cranked the engine, I found out the tach gets it's signal from the ignition control module located under the coil pack, some people said check the crank sensor if the tach does not work. The crank sensor sends a signal to the ECM to tell the ECM when to pulse the ignition control module, there are 3 wires coming from the ECM going to the ignition module, one wire each fires each of the 3 coils that send spark to 2 cylinders at the same time, one cylinder is on it's compression stroke and the other it's exhaust stroke which does not do anything while the other cylinder on the compression stroke fires. They use one coil for each 2 cylinders I guess to cut down on cost.
The cam sensor tells the computer which coil to fire, both the crank and cam sensors are 3 wire sensors called hall effect sensors, they both have a ground and hot wire going to them and the 3rd wire is the signal wire that sends pulses to the computer to tell it when to fire the ignition module. The sensors receive 5 volts from the ECM every time the cam or crank triggers them, they send a 5 v pulse to the ECM so if you have a dc volt meter ground the negative lead to the car ground and with the sensor still plugged in find the trigger wire ( ie the one that is not ground using continuity to ground to check, and the one that is not 5v dc when the ignition is on). You can penetrate the wire with a needle or pin and hook your positive lead from your meter set on dc volts and when you crank the car , the voltage should jump around, an analog meter is better than digital to use because if the sensors are good, the needle on the meter will swing back and forth when cranking if the sensor is good. So I eliminated both my sensors being bad so I knew the ECM was getting the ignition impulse signals.
Next I had to see if the ECM was good and sending a pulse to the ignition control module, The module has a 3 wire connector and a 6 wire connector connected to it. The 3 wire connector sends the amplified voltage to each coil to fire them. The plug with 6 connectors has one hot wire, one ground wire , 3 signal inputs from the ECM one for each coil and lastly 1 wire sending the ground signal to the tachometer to tell it the RPMs.
The ignition control module actually has stamped in it's body labels telling you what each pin is. The ECM sends a ground to the ignition module for each coil to tell it to fire, positive 12v is always at each coil when the ignition is on, so anyway taking a voltmeter and hooking the positive lead from it to your battery positive allows you to check both the inputs and output signals to and from the ignition control module.
If you have an analog meter and hook your negative lead to each input and each output ( total 6 wires in all) and your needle is not swinging back and forth while cranking. The problem is the ECM, as long as you have a good ground supply and 12v supply to the ECM and a good crank and cam sensor signal feeding the ECM,
If you get negative input signals to the 6 wire connector of the ICM, but no negative output signals from each wire on the 3 pin connector at the ignition module, the module is bad, as long as you make sure it is getting a good ground and good positive feed., You might want to also try hooking your meter leads to the hot and ground wire at the 6 pin connector of the ignition control module and check the voltage is good while cranking. There is such a thing as a false voltage, it is when a wire or connection allows just enough electrons to flow through it that your meter will read voltage, but when there is a load put on it, the voltage will drop, that is because there can be corrosion, a bad ground somewhere, or mice chewed a wire where there is only one tiny strand left to show voltage, but not enough wire left to carry the load.
I checked all my signals and made sure all sensors were good and the ignition circuit input signals to my ignition control module to fire the coils.
So now what, I had fuel and I had spark, so I looked up timing and came across this video. I did learn there are 3 pig tails over by the battery under the wiper, one pigtail you ground to check the timing, one is the hot wire going to the fuel pump, it is for testing if your fuel pump is getting 12v, or for jumping with 12v to see if the fuel pump is working .
There is a third wire, it is a pigtail coming from the ignition control module going to the tachometer, you can hook an external tach to that wire for servicing but it is 1/3 pulse of the actual engine rpm so if your car was idling at 900rpm, the tach would read 300rpm. The tach in your dash automatically does the converting of the 1/3 signal to read actual rpm.
The pigtail on my 94 SL going to the fuel pump was black with a red stripe, the fuel pump connector looks the same as the one that is the signal for the tach. I was thinking since the tach has positive to it, it would not hurt the tach, but the tach pigtail is also connected to the ignition control module ,so accidentally hooking positive 12 to the wrong connector under certain conditions might mess up the output gate on the ignition control module since it sends a ground signal at it's output.
The third pigtail you ground to bypass the advance and hold the idle for checking timing is obviously different, it is round and a tan color connector, it has a cap you remove to get to the pin you ground. I assume Mitsubishi did not want you accidentally mistaking it for the fuel pump test lead and hook positive to it since it is meant for ground, It goes to the ECM anyway.
So here I was totally checking out everything , I had fuel and I had spark but the motor might try and fire one time at first try, then would only crank with nothing happening as if I either was getting no spark or no fuel. It was very frustrating because I tested the compression and everything I knew to check, so i thought maybe the guy working on it before did not get a good seal and I had a vacuum leak or some other issue. I decided I needed to remove the intake and while I was at it check the rear plugs under it.
So I take off the intake, pull the rear plugs and they were all black and wet with fuel. Turns out he had replaced only the 3 front plugs which made it hard to see they were wet. I realized my plugs were fuel fouled, just like the guy in this video complained of his car doing as it seemed he had been trying everything just like me to find why his car was messed up.
You'll figure it out and shes going to run like a beast 💪
Hope so
Glad to see her starting better this video👍 those service manuals are life savers🙌
Yea they are !
In this process having a fuel mixture problem I was trying to figure out prior to finding the crack in the hose, I learned how to set the throttle position sensor, and the idle set screw you should never mess with, ( unless you suspect someone else has jacked with it)
The idle set screw has a locking nut, to set it to factory setting loosen the nut and back off the idle set screw till it is not touching the throttle plate, slowly turn it clockwise till it just comes in contact with the throttle where it will start to open it, turn the screw 1 1/4 turn clockwise from there, hold the screw and lock the nut.
Then to check the throttle position sensor setting, get a 20 thousandths inch feeler gauge, place it between the throttle screw and throttle holding the throttle open 20 thousandths of an inch. Loosen the 2 screws holding the TPS. Then looking at the TPS un plugged with the center tang that holds the wire plug located at top, hook an ohm meter to the last 2 pins on the right of the TPS then turn the TPS counter clockwise where your meter reads continuity , then slowly turn it clockwise till the meter falls reading no continuity, tighten the screws at that point and plug the connector back and remove the feeler gauge and your done.
I spent a lot of time figuring this all out, hopefully I save someone some time fixing their 3000gt issues. I posted my very first comment above previously, not knowing the guy in this video seemed to be having the same problems as me, grasping at straws suspecting engine timing and bad gas when it was probably just a stupid unseen hard to see crack in a vacuum hose.
Love hearing this thing Ian can’t wait for it to run 100
Ima get it there soon
What your going to do is quite saying sorry!!!!! At least you’re out there getting us a video keep them coming !!!!!!!
Lol awe thanks bud
Nice work man. Keep at it!
Just watching some else’s project car run even if it isnt clean is so cool, hell yeah man that cars gonna be sick as fuck
Hope so Thanks man
Looks good! Hopefully the fuel will straighten it out!
I think it should
Grounding the brown connector puts the car into injection timing learn otherwise it would just be trying to throttle learn I had the same issue with mine when I redid my headgaskets. My cas was 180 degrees off Google 3000gt cas adjustment there's a specific procedure to these .
Ignition not injection timing
Ok ok .. Thanks man
When tan plug is grounded it holds e.c.u at base idle it wont make any corrections or try to adjust timing.
Once car is at 500 to 750rpm thats it
Im late on my reply lol didn't see video tell eve of xmas eve.
O ok ok lolol thanks bud
Do some research about that wire my man, its for when you setting your timing an Idle , after you set it you unground that wire.
Yea I been looking it up .. I mainly met like I can't explain what it does.. cuz I figured someone would ask me what does that do and I don't know how to explain it lol
@huracanian3051 so what was the fix to this? Mines doing the same exact thing after changing out heads 1991 TT . Mine sounds the same and shuts off after short idle.
Are you running a chrome ecu on this car? Can’t remember
No it's still stock right now.. And I think ima go with the AEM stand-alone so I can delete the MAF sensor and add two step .. just have more control
Can you explain more, I don't think you go into enough detail..and please repeat yourself more....some channels just show us the build...I prefer to hear hours of talking explaining everything in detail with no actual building...keep it up
Lol haha I didn't think I repeated myself that much lol
@@huracanian3051 I own one of these gen 2... I just wanna see it run!!!..keep up the good work..it looks clean
Most the time I walk do you step by step I've just done the same exact thing about 4 times now ..
@@ardie72 I want to see it run too lolol
@@huracanian3051 I think you read their comment wrong...... It's a compliment. A channel or two just talks about what they are going to do in detail, over and over, repeating the same shit while picking their nose...but you rarely see them actually work on a car( and doubt they do much or they would vid it.) Unless? I read that comment wrong! hahaha
No such thing as bad fuel, but it's never going to run right without the exhaust so waste of time doing anything til the exhaust is on.
Everything you just said is wrong and makes no sense.. fuel does go bad and gets gummy.. and it's a turbo car after the Turbo the exhaust does not matter.. there's no Scavenging there's no "back pressure" after the turbo
@@huracanian3051 Noob reply
There is such a thing as bad fuel, if you let it sit long enough in a tank it not only loses it's octane, but it also separate's into coal oil and other weird looking gel stuff that they mix in unleaded gas.
@@melfrank8379 Where does the octane go to when the tank is sealed?
@@1magnit All fuel tanks have to be vented, otherwise when you removed the cap pressure would blow out, in the old days before emissions the cap was vented, then after emission standards were required automakers put a one way vent in the cap to only allow air in and ran a vapor tube back to the front of the car in the engine compartment to a carbon filled canister that fed them into the motor while the engine was running and held them in between when the car was sitting. The canister has it's own pressure release vent to release any vapor it can not contain past a certain pressure, otherwise pressure would back up into the tank which they do not want. So in short they do the best to contain the vapor but the system can not be completely air tight, any overflow is usually sent to the intake of the motor but you can not prevent evaporation of the octane totally without causing pressure building up in your fuel tank. Evaporation causes increased pressure and the higher the octane the higher the flash rate or evaporation rate. The octane in fuel is like a thinner in paint, it keeps the solids fluid, when it evaporates out, the solids in the fuel separate. I guess you could argue gas does not go bad, but that would only be true if you had an air tight seal where no evaporation could take place. Since automobiles do not have air tight seals fuel does go bad left for long periods of time. I can smell gas and tell if it is bad, usually after being left in a lawn mower too long, it smells more like coal oil and less strong as far as fumes.