How Persuasion Works in Starfield
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- Опубликовано: 10 июл 2024
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One thing Oxhorn missed:
If your if you pass a check on your last turn and it does not fill up the bar, you get another chance.
No mater how many turns it takes, you don't fail the mini-game if your previous dialog was successful.
That is what the tutorial means when it says: "... you can never fail if your last choice succeeds"
Ah, that makes sense! I haven't been super mindful of the mechanics involved when going through checks but noticed sometimes I get more attempts than listed but didn't really think about it more than that. Thanks for the comment!
wrong
@@GothicKittyMadness how am I wrong? Did I miss something? I will go back and listen again. Maybe he covered it and I didn't hear...
I know the info is not wrong, I use it all the time. You can even see it working in one of his live streams
@@GothicKittyMadness
If you to 2hrs 40min and 40sec in his starfield live stream part 2, Where he is talking to the bartender on mars, you can see he has 3 attempts to fill 4 bars. The passes the first for 1point.
Fails the 2point check so has only 1 turn left. Yet he passes the next check for 1 point and it says he still has 1 turn left.
The optimal way to pass checks is once you have 1 turn left spam green options
Auto-persuade does not make you succeed in a conversation, it makes you succeed at the highest choice in the current dialogue. So if your highest was +2 then you would add 2 points, if it was a +6 then you would add 6 points. And there are more conversations which require more than 6 points to win, you can auto-persuade a +6 and still need to pass more checks afterwards!
Also, lots of the booze raises your persuasion chance
Yes, because everyone know some random stranger coming up to you when they’ve just downed 20 bottles of hard liquor is obviously someone you’re gonna want to listen to. Especially if they’re demanding access to a secure area.
This is why I always get super drunk before a job interview.
Also important to note, if the highest available option when you hit Auto-Persuade was an intimidating option, such as threatening to kill the target if they don't do what you want, then they will henceforth act as if you threatened to kill them. Keep that in mind if playing as a good character.
Fun fact: none of this matters because you start with the save/load skill.
Sometimes you get caught in a trap though lol. Happened to me twice in Starfield so far, where I couldn't back out of the dialogue to quicksave.
@@RanchDressingPop-Tarts there are a few instances where I didn't know id have to persuade anyone, and then wouldn't be allowed to back out of the conversation. Depending on where my previous save is, I might/might not load to be sure I can make a quicksave right before the dialogue.
But if you don't know there's a persuasion dialogue coming, then yeah you can get trapped.
And I don't really want to get into a habit of quicksaving before every single conversation. Would break too much immersion for my tastes.
And then of course, you have a few instances where someone will force a dialogue with you before you can do anything about it and it'll have a persuasion attempt in there sometimes.
Lol true but I chose to max it asap because you need to put points into something to move down the tree and nothing else is worth a shit imo. I make plenty of credits without commerce, stealing, or scavenging
@tylerwatson9332 Sounds like a bunch of excuses. The game autosaves quite regularly too.
@@Toddpeekence how....exactly is that excuses?
Apologies, my friend, for having my own experiences with this situation. Didn't realize there was only one way this game was able to be played and experienced. Apologies, my all-seeing-father, for I do not control when the game autosaves and if it decides it wishes to douse upon me the fiery flames of the jaws of defeat, well, there's isn't much for me to do. I do so hope you can forgive me and my petulant excuses, dear father, accept me into your graces once more.
So I guess they thought "Hey, they hated how we simplified the dialogue system in Fallout 4, let's make this one ridiculously intricate"
Which honestly I love. I also love the new stupidly hard lockpicking mini game
The persuasion is easy, it’s the lockpicking 😂
It's not difficult at all. It's simple once you realize how it works. Same with lockpicking.
@@SilverFang2789 It just takes extra steps
@@Mr_Sarcasumme too, the lockpicking system in the fallout games has become really easy over the years, i like how i actually have to put some thought into it and not just try to brute force it
Blue persuasion checks also come from additional information you've gathered from outside the conversation. This is something shown to the player in the Ryujin questline.
Bruh what…
I really wanted to like the Ryujin questline but even with 125% sneak and chameleon, you get spotted 15 feet away. They need to patch stealth.
Skills like manipulation and diplomacy will appear in persuade checks
@@BallisticStigmata Did you remember to take off your spacesuit? That actually really, really hampers your ability to stealth (which makes sense, sneaking around in a bulky spacesuit would be kind of difficult).
@@diego2112gamingfor sure, I would’ve thought that chameleon would be really useful during sneak missions but it’s nowhere near as useful as just taking off the suit.
Don’t forget, Most beers and wines boost persuasion chance. I’m not sure if they stack but it seems like they do cuz I’ve never failed a persuasion after drinking a bunch of beer and wine lol
nope, sadly wines will be overwritten by the most powerful hippolyta
Was gonna add this. +1
No stat booster consumables in the game stacks, it just picks the highest effect active.
While I'm unsure if the effects of clothes with it stack with consumables I do know that the strongest consumable will overwrite other consumables of the same type.
not only do they not stack, but they don't stack with that drug that boosts persuasion either
There is at least one more option there. White. it seems to be associated with additional information. For example, you can talk to an NPC and he will tell you something and this also gives auto success in Persuasion with another NPC.
Also in the dialogue tree there is Diplomacy, Intimidation, Bribes...they also appear in this Persuasion game as options once you reach skill levels!
Edit:I was a little mistaken. The color of those checks that you receive from the information is also very light blue and I took it for white. But yes, this is a different type of check from background.
Does Deception and Manipulation show up as dialogue options as well?
Can confirm that manipulation does, at least@@Max_Gooch
If you have the Empathy trait, you can also get blue persuasion checks as well.
The diplomacy, Intimidation and manipulation skills give green persuasion checks worth more points than normal,
as well as skills related to the situation and/or job of the person you are persuading :
-Leadership
-Commerce
-Medicine
-Chemistry
-Security
(and probably other that I haven't encountered yet)
It really adds to the immersion for me, being able to bullshit your way trough a conversation by using your character knowledge.
for example, claiming there is an outbreak to get into an hospital wing. (medicine skill)
or claiming to be doing a regular maintenance computer update to access information (security skill)
@@ledocteur7701 Backgrounds and Traits also add options.
There are also apparel items that can boost your persuade chance. You can buy a +5 outfit from shops like Outland in New Atlantis, and a quest chain in Neon gives you a +10. I’m unsure if the +10 can be purchased anywhere, I haven’t found one if it can.
Edit: quicksaving before trying to persuade can be useful as well. If you fail, just load it up and try again.
Or you can deal with the failure which might be even more fun unless it’s about a discount
Something you missed is that your persuasion attempt will never fail as long as you passed your last check. If you chose three +1's and succeeded the last one, you can still continue a 4 bar persuasion as long as that third check was passed.
…. Huh? Edit: Oh I saw it explained in another comment
Here's some extra info i found while playing:
1)The green/orange/red colors are NOT levels of difficulty, @4:14 that info box implies that they are different tactics to use. I think of them as green=persuade, orange=negotiate, and red=intimidate, which i think falls in line with the tone of each dialogue option.
2)Using only green will lower your success rate much more than using a mix of dialogue types, even with unique dialogue.
3)There are green critical success and green unique dialogues that are locked until you use the orange or red tactic once
4)The dialogues that guarantee critical success might be locked to you on one attempt, but will be available either after a reload or after selecting a different dialogue tactic (this is influenced by your persuasion chance)
5)On very difficult persuasion checks, the number of turns do not matter as long as you continue to be successful (use this to your advantage by using the red/orange tactics early on to get further without risking a reload)
Love you bro. As soon as starfield dropped I literally said to myself "I can't wait to Binge watch all of oxhorn's lore videos." Your voice is also amazing and I could listen for days.
I have found the contextual options also depend on you reading the situation. Contextual options can still be wrong options if they are not what your NPC wants or goes against their character. You have to pay attention. Sometimes convos with other NPC will give you insight as to the right/wrong answers
I've noticed if you listen to their dialogue, and you choose the one that best fits your situation, then it works even if its red. Could be random luck for me but it has helped me a handful times.
A little correction on your video, the blue checks aren’t ONLY for your background but you can unlock blue dialogue options from doing extra regarding the quest at hand, for example having an item in your inventory they want, find out optional information, ect
The whole “threats, being nice, etc” in the tutorial is related other social perks. You get diplomacy options, intimidation options and so on if you have those perks. They also tend to succeed more often but they are also obviously a dice roll since they aren’t blue. Blue checks are always 100%, they aren’t always background related they can also be quest related.
They can also be companion related too I had Sam with me on a mission and having him with me gave me a different option in persuasion with the blue color next to it
Best RUclips comment I’ve seen today thank you.
I’m sick of these content farming RUclipsrs churning out rushed videos that misinform people about the complexity of Starfield’s features.
@@dachshund_gaming not saying Oxhorn didn’t get some stuff wrong but you must be new here. Oxhorn is one of the first few OG RUclipsrs that make in-depth well “filmed” Bethesda games lore videos, so people that watch him regularly would expect him to make a few Starfield videos, not exactly content farming when his fan base would probably complain if he didn’t make Starfield videos.
Thank you so much for this! I was curious how the system worked, now I’m set!
Thank you for the easily understandable guide Ox.
Fun fact sometimes talking to npcs involved in the quest can also give a persuasion option found this out on neon when I talked to an optional npc and then what she said came up in the options.
I thank you for explaining these Oxhorn, helps to know the mechanics.
Heres to waiting for the mod that adds variations of Cartman's "youre breaking my balls here" to the persuade pool. Lol
OMG thanks for breaking this down. I totally missed the "Persuasion" and "Turns" part at the bottom on my first persuade interaction.
Glad to see you diving into Starfield, always enjoyed your content in Fallout.
I think in Oxhorn’s voice while I’m playing Starfield.
Thank you for making this, I finally understand this now!
Ty for the great 2 minute video, packed into 13.
Hey boss, i've got some more info that could be useful!
1 - I've had it happen two or 3 times, where by hacking in computers and talking with all characters, exploring their dialogues, on some conversations i would get an "Blue" persuasion check>
One exemple was by talking to Rosa Newill and hearing her view of the Sieghart\Jack fight, you could use her view when talking with Siegheart, that's a Blue roll that gave me 5 points, instantly completing the check.
2 - There are other consumables, less rare even, that give 15% persuasion normally, those are alcohol and drinks mostly.
3 - I've noticed, that sometimes after winning an Green persuasion check, i would get an extra Turn. I don't know if it's a bug or an random chance, but i'm certain that it happened more than once with me.
Thanks for this guide. My dumb brain was confused how it works. Didn't even notice the little bars. Liked and subscribed.
I love this guy, your voice and fallout content helped me finally finish fallout 3 😁
What I love so much about it is that some of the options would be chosen for specific characters. Like bad/evil, pirates and spacers. Intimidation.
I have actually not chosen an option, even if it would have given me more points, because it sounded really bad or evil. I love this. ❤
You can also get a neuromod to wear that increases persuasion chance. You can get them on neon somewhere (can't remember where exactly though, sorry)
Certain "foods" also give an increase to persuasion, eg. certain alcoholic drinks.
Also, there is multiple items in game to raise your persuasion from food, chems, clothes
I love this system, and the new lockpicking system is great too.
I honestly miss the oblivion speech checks lol. Miss watching their faces scrunch up on those options they really hated lol.
Worst rpg mini game ever made
@@joshf2218you misspelled best
@@SamJohnson-fj4lt nah it was definitely the most useless system bgs has ever attempted lol
I believe some alcohol items also give the player a bonus to persuasion. Later in the game, prompts like "Diplomacy" and "Intimidation" can come up as options in the dialogue mini game - depending on the players perks.
So well done, now a subscriber
Eit clothiers in New Atlantis sells multiple clothes with persuasion bonus, later some show up in Outland as well, can be looted, stolen, etc.
UC Security outfit has intimidation bonus, makes threats easier to pass.
Wine and liquors give you persuasion bonuses, there are planty for free at the Lodge.
Being faction native, raised enlightened or religious shows up when appropriate as blue option.
In some cases you can pass persuasion onto your companion.
Some NPC's only have persuade dialog option if you have two or more ranks in it.
I can't wait to play this game!!! It looks really interesting!!
When u encounter a persuasion option, exit out of the conversation, quicksave, go back to the conversation, and spam the highest value option. If you fail reload and try again. Fastest way i found to get past the more tedious conversations that you want to go your way.
Ryuujin quest line awards a suit that gives plus 10 chance to persuade. Its fairly early on in the quest line too. The final major mission gives you a mind control skill and a stealth suit.
While I was trying to convince the bank robbers in Akila to stand down, I was able to keep going after hitting my last turn, but only as long as I succeeded.
Some of the alcohol also increases it by between 10 to 12%
Best explanation I've found for it, thanks a LOT. I barely understood what I was doing with Persuastion despite sinking a couple hundred hours in the game, lol.
Like the locks. You can reload a save before you talked to them, and the chances of you succeeding, with each dialogue option changes.
I think sometimes there are options that are guaranteed to succeed, there was a mission on neon that suggested playing to someone’s personality, they have a dog and they like their dog so you say that’s a cute dog you have and by playing to them it succeeded but there weren’t all too many options like that I can remember
The text of the dialogue does matter for that NPC (any NPC for that matter). At 5:35 you had the choice of +3, which is harder but also diplomatically tells the NPC they can do the thing themselves to verify. In my first character filled with Persuasion skill and chems, I failed because I did how you did it. On my 2nd character with no persuasion skills of any kind or chems, I chose the text that provided the NPC real choice. I decided to test it by rolling back several times because at just prior to this in a different dialogue in a different mission I was starting to realize there are choices that make more sense TO the NPC, not to myself or what I'm concerned with.
That is literally persuasion in a nutshell anyway in real life. Can I persuade you to buy a bridge in Florida? Probably not. Can I persuade you to pay off the debt of some long lost family member for land that includes a bridge, and you can verify yourself through the county clerk? +3.
I've been reading the text and seeing hard choices in Persuasion go very much in my favor more regularly now. Still have fails, and sometimes hard, but the text was written for a reason other than just some rando-writer being given one hour to fill the dialogue trees for the game. :)
Ox, it seems to me, after many reloaded saves and persuade checks, that the ones that have roots in either the end goal or the backgrounds/actions/motivations of the person involved seem to work more often/better than some of the random thrown in options. I don't have any points in persuade. Idk if it's solely based on the color choices. It seems that even the harder ones pass easier if it's closer to something the persuade target values/thinks/is trying to get out of it.
FudgeMuppet speculated the same thing, and while it's anecdotal and subject to confirmation bias, I've been surprised a number of times the harder option passed because I felt it was the best the to say either given the situation or my background/skills.
Also if you have a black cat in real life and it purrs in your lap that gives bonus too. I can feel it. ;)
I prefer the persuade and dialogue choices from fallout because it’s easier
I always save before each attempt, and evey time I succeed in an attempt but then fail after the next. I reload and always will succeed in the same one each time where every other choice would almost always fail. I've tested it countless times now with many different npcs. That being said, I'm pretty sure each npc does have a set dialouge that will always succeed with nothing to do with luck or the level of your persuasion skill.
This definitely helped I didn’t have a clue how it worked and failed so many times 😩😩
4:11 The last sentence is actually important. "you can never fail if your last choice succeeded". That means if you use up your last persuasion attempt and succeed, you will get another last attempt (...and then another?). With that you could win the 4 to win - persuasion with Marika by always choosing the +1 option, because after the 3rd if you succeed, you will get a fourth.
Also wine (red, white, Chunks, ..) will increase your persuasion chance.
Thanks to working at Ryujin Industries pretty early in the game, I now have a fitted business suit clothing which have +10% successful persuasion chance. I saved up money to buy neuroamp that increases my diplomacy skill and bottles of wine that also helps with succesful persuasive chance. I never failed any persuasion anymore.
It's basically Oblivion's persuasion mini game done with dialog instead of a wheel.
Finally a Starfield video that isn't "39 Features The Game Doesn't Tell You About" or "How to get the BEST LEGENDARY SHIP FAST!1!!"
Blue options in persuasion checks also show up from research you did before speaking to them. Reading a data slate to prepare for a meeting, for example.
I’ve used the +1 option 6x in a row when I only had 3 turns. You keep the final 1 turn if you’re successful. You only fail if you miss once you’re down to your final turn. I have never failed because I ran out of attempts and kept succeeding on dialog selections.
Wine also increases persuade chance. Also you can craft paramour with chemistry 1 provided you do the researches (think it's "enhancements 2")
Nice! Thanks! 👍🏻
There is also various equipment that offer a boost to persuasion as long as you have them equipped.
I think the game also takes into account "character values"; as in, if you are talking to a very self-serving character, choosing options that align with the character's motivations (even if they show up as more difficult ones) have a much higher chance of success.
I've had to choose so many orange/red options that, when I had talked with an NPC and got a better idea of how they "tick", I chose options accordingly... and it worked every single time (if true, that would be a great way to make sure that persuasion benefits from you, as a player, having talked more to the character first).
If you have any intrest in Persuasion or lockpicking i strongly suggest choosing them as starting perks. Too many times i have been prevented from opening a chest or door because i have not picked enough locks to unlock the master or expert skill. There just are not enough normal lockpicking situations early on. Same with persuasion. You need to succeed in persuasions in order to unlock higher tiers. Persuasion checks are story driven and not repeatable so if you are not doing them form the start its going to be hard to make up the lost ground.
I enjoy your high quality productions… and golden voice.
Intimidation, Diplomacy, Deception and Instigation perks also provide unique dialogue options.
Loving the content!
Ah.. I didn't realise what the auto-persuade was about, I thought the game just picks some options for you. Definitely a handy one to remember if you hadn't saved the game before a difficult persuasion.
I'll be honest, I thought you would go more in-depth about the 'dice roll' and what your odds were with each color tier. It was why I clicked.
This video felt like reading a textbook only containing information a teacher just explained to me beforehand.
The blue ones can also be gained through mission items that contain information. Like slates
I really have enjoyed your fallout 4 videos. I just got starfield and I am really digging it. Im very happy that you have some starfield videos! Keep up this stuff. What kind of cigars you smoking in the background?? I used to smoke some Nubs and enjoyed them.
There's one thing you're missing something on and that's with the blue dialog options. It's not just your backstory that can give you these choices. I've had options where I can use some evidence I found earlier in an investigation. I've never failed a blue option so pretty sure those are 100% Great video ox!
I can't get enough of this game
Spaced, neon street rat. Gangster, wanted and some other thing. These have made my first play through trivial
There is also the diplomat and other perks which give you extra dialog options.
Making it easier to succeed. Very helpful video though :)
light blue checks are autowin and they are based on more than just your starting background. I've had them pop for equipped traits and story decisions.
Ox your also missing the two drinks you can get from the Veiwport bar after you do the bartender side quest
All wine aid items give boosted persuasion change as well
Important to note; you aren’t limited to the number of turns it lists. The counter ticks down with every choice _except_ when it reaches 01. At that point it only ticks down if you fail. If you keep succeeding you stay at 01.
There are far more difficult persuade challenges than six bars; I believe ten is the maximum I’ve seen, and the options don’t always offer you enough points to reach that in the allotted turns; (although that is rare).
Consumables related to persuasion also include the wines (Merlot…etc) and some of the cocktails (notably the Supernova from Viewpoint’s quest).
Please make create Backgroundvideos to the stories of the Characters in Starfield. I loved those from Fallout!😊
i hope we get a mod that puts numbers to that color coding.
I also feel that some options may be false positives.. like theyre hardwired to fail. i had an option i wanted to see what the npc would reply with if i succeeded, because it linked with my progress in a different questline (ranger) but even savescumming, i failed like 10 times b4 giving up. i could just be super unlucky with this orange difficulty choice.
It’s cool because both the factions, the free star collective and the UC, are both basically galactic United States, and you can actually tell the nations are descended from the United States or like the UN. I Really like how they made the lore around that.
Also some quests or circumstances also you blue checks as well. Like the Walter quest in your first playthrough, Walter asks you to scope out the lounge and find info on the seller. Do your investigation well enough and find he's desperate and get a blue check. Secure the VIP lounge by renting it and hacking the computer by door, another check.
Thank you very much for that very good explanation. Short, to the point, informative.
I understood the persuation mechanic completely wrong so far.
Now, thinking about comparison to Fallout 4 or Skyrim, I find a lot of good aspects in that new mechanic. To me, persuation appears to be a bit more difficult even if I have invested skill points. I like the fact that challenges without having blue persuation options can fail even if I have invested skill points for that. On the other hand, what's the point of making something harder when I just have to quick load and do it again, sometimes multiple times. The rolling a dice factor is too strong in the equation if you get what I mean. Yes, rolling a dice should be part of the process, but I think it should be combined with other factors (dices). I like the idea of a multiple dices competing. And skills and chems either increase the dice sides (D20 and stuff) or even put multiple dices on the table. Would be very interested how Bethesda really does it in the background. Thank you again.
As per usual another great vid. Very helpful, thank you
Thanks!
I did a persuade check of like 8, despite having failed all attempts prior to the last one. I thought it would be impossible, but you can get a critique success which will automatically fill up all bars. It was incredibly lucky, and it gave me further insight into persuasion.
As others commented above if your last attempt is a success you Always get another turn. So if 3 more success needed and only 1 turn left choosing green 1s still can work, as long as they all successful. This is very important. You can do a 4 blip persuasion with 3x +1, then another during the extra turn. Or you can try hard ones, then go for the greens during the end.
Hippolyta and an outfit with 5 or 10% added persuasion is all I’ve been using for passing the speech checks, literally no points in the social tree and I’ve almost completed most of ryujin without much issue or failed persuasion attempts. And save scumming doesn’t really help cuz the dialogue changes and even the same dialogue options that succeeded once can fail the next time when you reload the save due to the dice rolls
I’ve chosen the east option every time when the amount was 6 and it’s like the game rewards you with another chance at dialogue as long as you don’t fail. Maybe I’ve not paid close enough attention but I feel like I’ve panicked because I thought I was out of chances and it just gave me a new one.
Quick save before AND after each persuasion attempt as well as lockpick use.
Blue isn't always for backgrounds. It can pertain to skills or gathered intelligence, or other outside elements. For this reason alone, I think "Medical" is worth getting, as it appears a ton on various conversation options. Only one level is needed, but can often be an auto-success.
Also, all wine raises persuasion chances, and that's real easy to find to steal in all sorts of places (the club at Neon is especially good and give 12%)
One thing you missed: if you’re on your last turn and you succeed you get another turn if the bars aren’t full yet. You actually see it happen in the example with the oven joke which you used on your third turn.
Not sure I'm a fan of the persuasion system here. At least from a roleplay perspective. Some of the canned persuasion options are just really jarring and feel out of place, while the system as a whole doesn't encourage you to pick the option that makes the most sense in context necessarily.
Also "alcohol" (usually mixed drinks or wine chunks) clothes and possibly some legendarys provide buffs to persuasion.
Here is another part of it, if you have a Neuroamp installed then the wording is considered, intimidations, instagation or persuasion. even if all 3 are green and you have a neuroamp for intimidation than the Intimidating option is higher despite all of them being green.
You can also get a persuasion bonus with booze. I had a few types and each had a different bonus, like +9% with some wine.
I dropped in to mention this as well!
Wine in bottles give +12%, wine in packets or chunks 10%
@@Z3rgatul I think there are many various percentages, because I have things varying from 4-6-8-9-10-12% in my ship's inventory at the moment. I didn't know there even was a 12% until I saw it on a video. Then I got one off from a random spacer.
OX: I know a lot of ppl are saying its just RNG but has there been actual confirmation because I dont think its only RNG, it seems obvious to me the Green option is "Unskilled Persuade" the Yellow is "Skilled Persuade" and the Red is "Intimidation". I have found in many, many persuade interactions the Yellow option is much more reliable when you are skilled in persuade: I think its rolled against the skill with the colour-code so if ppl are choosing green they arent using their skill dialogue options.
Save your game, try them, reload because you know the answers theyre likely to accept. However, this does work well, bathesda probably aware of the saving tricks, made the npc occasionally change thier conversation and opinions which is quite fun.
I absolutely love the way they did persuasion in this game honestly at some points when I know I didn’t quick save it gets my heart beating when you got those last two points to get off and it’s amazingly satisfying when you get a speech check in when you go
Barney style enough for even a Marine to understand. Pass the crayons please! Semper Fi!
I like how he broke it down like I'm 5 years old lol
I prefer the fallout method personally. You feel like your actually doing something. The persuasion system is broken in starfield in my opinion. Spoiler alert, in one quest I had to steal a valuable item, there was an option to just ask the owner for the key which I did and I won the persuasion check and she gave it to me. Doing this should require some advance level skill check, not random chance haha.
I HATE rolling dices.
RNG is just a fancy way of naming "Rigged Numbers Game" instead of "Random Number Generator". The system is set to run AGAINST YOU (well, in my case anyway).