Kamiya confidently walking out of the Platinum building with his boxers hanging out of his destroyed pants is not the story I expected to see this year but here we are
Kamiya always struck me as a producer’s worst nightmare. Something about the way his games work plus his flamboyant persona gave the impression that there was a layer right under him making it all work.
@raccoonofmotivation20 Kamiya and a producer walk into a room to discuss any given project. Yelling starts, and several loud bangs can be heard from within Kamiya walks out of the now dark room, with ragged clothes and covered in blood And he says "Yeah, this ones gonna have Space Harrier take up a third of it too"
He always came off as the Japanese version of 90's John Romero. This super cocky arrogant guy but people put up with him and gave him projects because everything he touched turned to gold.
I'd like for the guy who directed Astral Chain (Takahisa Taura) to take over, personally. That felt the most fresh and fun of all the recent platinum games, imo
Taura has been the breadmaker for Platinum for the last like 6 years. (Also was the Lead on Nier: A) Kamiya outside of Creative Vision roles (and I guess Sol Cresta) hasnt taken the reigns for a game since W101. Project GG was/is still years away from releasing. But as they said on the Podcast: Inaba might be nuking Platinum over GAAS. He has stated his firm support for that business model since before Babylons Fall. ADD: But I do think that Woolie goes hyperbole over Platinums output. Every game that Platinum put out in the last 6 years was good (Nier A, Astral Chain, Bayo3, Bayo Origin, Sol Cresta, World of Demons), except for Babylons Fall. And with that I don't mean to say that, for example, Bayo 3 didn't have its faults, but every single Platinum Game has its own set of problems or... rough patches. Probably the least non-clunky games were Astral Chain (, Nier A) and Anarchy Reigns (Anarchy Reigns biggest problem was the servers which SEGA provided/handled)
The day that Kamiya said that he would part ways with platinum, I looked on Instagram to see if they had a thank you letter up, but the first thing I saw was Kamiya's ripped pants
I found this news unbelievably unsurprising given platinums recent history. But honestly out of all the video game company "let's start our own game company with black jack and etc" to end up with key members leaving THAT company this is the penultimate example. It now feels like it's not "if" but when, whenever devs leave a huge publisher to make different publisher and then also leave that one. It's just inevitable now. Start the timer every time from now on.
It's almost like the underlying systems that structure these company's incentives leads to the same result given enough time... If only we had a name for this superstructure that underpins our entire society so that we could critique it and progress to a more humane and equitable system.
if the company you work for starts to make you hate your job so you leave it and start your own company only for the same thing to happen there......maybe you're the problem?
@@Canadish Oh, that systematic problem has a name, but we all know that most morons won’t care about critiquing it. Pat and Woolie have been critiquing it for a long time, bur morons only care about it now because it is interfering with their video games. XD
Unobtanium Games, co-founded by Hideo Kojima, Hideki Kamiya, Yoko Taro, and Suda51. Will whatever they release be remotely playable? Maybe. Will you inexplicably enjoy it regardless? Probably.
@@funnyvalentinedidnothingwrong unobtanium also crossed my mind.. anyway this team would just become the zaibatsu government council of Japan. They'd basically become Seele (And yes ignore that I used the forbidden word)
Yeah, Capcom has been doing pretty damn well as Platinum is currently doing the financial equivalent of locking itself in a bathroom without toilet paper.
Kojima calls Geoff Keighley to be the negotiator. He comes to the studio and pulls three guns and says: "The last one standing wins." Little do Kamiya and Yoko know is that their guns have blanks and Kojima has the real ones.
I cant believe I took Kaimiya's block to heart when he is punishing his goolies with a lack of support. It's like having your friends sleep in a torn hammock. Give him his drawers money.
What is Woolie talking about when he says Nintendo being not that far away from being a Sega style software only company? Like I thought the switch was performing extremely well, that was a pretty crazy take.
I mean, I COULD see them moving to being software only. But that's PURELY because Nintendo would go "Nah, don't feel like it" for making a new console, not because they couldn't.
Yeah, the Switch is like the third best selling system ever, well over 100 million units sold and a line-up of numerous titles that have sold ridiculously well. They’re doing *really* well rn.
This low key strikes me as the end of platinum. Kamiya was always dreaming but also quality control and he just made it work by having talented people from Clover. Now there’s nothing.
Man it took for ages for my eyes too see underwear, I was like "Why the fuck is woolie goatsying me today? Like he used some material filter to make it look like clothes" but like finally I seen the legs and not fingers.
One awesome and fairly low budget yet somehow high polish game at a time, small staff who are mostly artists, unified vision, and the willingness to do it while only being able to afford saltines for breakfast lunch and dinner.
I think the joy of getting blocked by Kamiya is probably the same I felt getting muted by Woolie vs. Where you love the content regardless but find it funny you said something that was worth the interaction.
@@busterwolf6973 IDK what I said but it was probably something stupid. Just noticed one day I could see that woolie would reply to comments but when I checked to see what he said they were blank.
Baulder's Gate 3 is a second run stadia game because it was originally going to be a Stadia exclusive, and then come to other platforms later aka the "second run". Second run is not the same as "second rate". Can you imagine the timeline where Stadia doesn't shutdown and the best RPG of the generation launches on it? That would've been wild.
Brotherman the Stadia was an absolute fuccin nightmare. Imagine not running your games from an SSD. BG3 would not have been as good as it was it was made for that thing.
@@ethanwalker955 There would've been so many stadia users going like "No, if you ignore the bugs and awful load times, this game is really awesome and totally worth a stadia sub!" and the rest of us would just roll our eyes and be like "pfft, whatever fanboy."
of the generation is extremely pushing it, man. you can't even fucking pause bg3. I have nearly 140 hours in bg3 and it is a very good game. but best rpg of the generation is the most insane thing.
Platinum can do gameplay, they just never achieved the lightning-in-bottle to create a brand that connected with general audiences. And character action games aren’t a niche genre, but they aren’t a mass market genre the way FPS games are. And there are different risks involved when you are transparently making “mass market appeal” design choices. We’ve all seen that result in contentious games. But Platinum could have really used some characters people liked who were not Bayonetta or something.
@@catantcha99Well maybe if they hadn't turned him into a multiversal fairy furry and made him shine brighter than Viola and arguably Cereza in the ending, maybe people wouldn't hate him so much
@@catantcha99 The ending of Bayo 3 isn’t really relevant to “Why doesn’t Platinum have a franchise that can carry them like Street Fighter or Resident Evil?” Bayonetta’s broad appeal issues begin at “It is a Devil May Cry game about a sexy witch who kills angles + time travel/multiverse nonsense.” Bayonetta is probably the best known Platinum game other than Metal Gear Rising, which is an IP they don’t own. This company doesn’t make anything that breaks into the mainstream. Like, Atlus will be fine making a bunch of niche games almost nobody plays because when Persona 6 drops they will swim in cash. Square Enix can botch Avengers because Final Fantasy 7 is such a powerful brand, it can be successful even with Tetsuya Nomura writing it
In regards to the mention of Xbox and BG3: Second Run doesn't mean Second Rate, it means the game would literally be having a "second" run if it came to xbox, meaning it would have reduced interest because its already out on other platforms.
in fairness if i was working at larian i'd probably assume BG3 wouldn't have sold well either because of the OGL drama with DnD and the overall drama with WotC. it's nice that none of that drama affected them in the end.
4:15 Okay, but a Mario Tennis game where the match winning point turns into a 5 second space harrior game where one team controls the ball and the others control obstacles that try to block sounds hype as shit?
So the reason why Granblue Relink looks like it’s got Platinum combat is because Cygames poached some of the guys when they were working on the game originally.
Most notably, Yasuyuki Kaji left Platinum and joined Cygames as the director for Granblue Fantasy: Relink. He was a lead level designer when working under Platinum.
Tbh ill be looking at both, but im more curious at Platinum than at Kamiyas future. I think he is an absolute schmuck, but he makes good ass games i cant deny that
Hey don't forget the good old "boss starts an attack animation mid cutscene and you immediately get hit as the fight starts unless you dodge right away"
Creativity needs to be tempered by reality. This is why you get clover/platinum not making money on their own projects while committee/algorithm can't keep an audiance and can't make anything compelling
@@Dracobyte because money is not real and has no actual value beyond what people believe it does thus making it an extremely stupid flagpole to base one's "reality" upon
People talk about Kamiya like he's the only one who knows how to make a character action game but when I think about the games he's had more control over in recent years, they're filled with constant bad minigames and poorly told stories while the character action becomes less important. I'm excited for new people to take over and seeing if they can course correct.
@@Dracobyte he still supervised the production of both, co wrote 2 and became the main writer of 3 after they didn't bring back Bingo Morihashi. He clearly was still heavily involved even if it wasn't as the director.
Remember when the fight with Higgs just turned into MGS4, and then it had 5 more endings after that? Death Stranding was good, but the story can SLOG at the ending.
To be fair with Kojima, he gives freedom for his fellow producers, designers to give input on his ideas and when they tell him his idea is shit, he would generally scale back or abandon it.
I remember when he tweeted about Bayo 3s garbage story and its reception. Very bluntly stated if you weren't a fan of the story decisions, you really shouldn't play their next games. I just don't know why anyone making a game would think that's a good thing to say. Same thing happened with BF5, told angry fans not to buy it. So they didn't, and the game sold terribly lol
BFV tbf got pretty shafted considering the guy who said that immediately left to try and help make a Battlefield competitor, and that it was revealed not long after Battlefront 2s god awful launch. And then when public opinion finally starts to turn around from all the good support both games got it was cut off so they could try and salvage BF2042, and look how that turned out.
@@jimbob1862 Nah but there was also a leaked executive/higher up meeting where they blatantly joke and shit talk all the criticism and poor performance BF5 got. EA and Dice higher ups were in full on *"you didn't win! You didn't win!"* mode. And a lot of negative sentiment came from them directly stating on a presentation stage it'd be historically faithful, but then they blatantly cherry pick and retell events way differently to fit the narrative they wanted to tell. If they had just said BF5 was alternate history it would've been fine, but they wanted to have their cake and eat it to.
@@NeutralGuyDoubleZero I'm aware of why the controversy blew up, and that it wasnt just the one exec with that attitude, but that doesn't really conflict with my point that the game itself and most of the studio got shafted a lot. I didn't buy either game at launch and only when they were in a deep sale, but given that I waited barely a year for a game that in both cases was significantly cheaper and better than the betas, Im pretty happy to give the devs the dues they deserve for turning both around so well.
What's this whole thing about people suddenly caring about story in Bayonetta? Last I checked I thought the general agreement was the stories in Bayo 1 and 2 were by far the weakest element and most people just went "don't care if the story is meh, just here for the kickass action." Why is Bayo 3 suddenly the game where people starting giving a damn about an aspect people didn't care that much about when it came to the first two?
considering the only work Platinum gets that actually pays them is Support Work for Square eNFTix & their last project had them outsource a Capcom combat designer yeah i can 100% see Kamiya having a Heated Gamer Moment & everyone just calling out the bluff
10:30 Woolie is absolutely right about Death Stranding being able to be a kickstarter type of game. A lot of what made Death Stranding special (outside of the whole hollywood celebrities bit, but we're talking gameplay here, not cinematics) was systemic, about systems interconnecting. Connecting your world to other players' world, delivering packages for other players, sharing constructions, all of that could have been done with an aesthetic that took inspiration from old PS1 titles, and so went with a simplistic visual style, without all of the Sony studios multimillion dollar budget for making sure every rock and every blade of grass glistens in the rain in the morning sun. Death Stranding could have been made with a way smaller budget and while it would have lost a certain je ne sais quois that came with the photorealistic naked norman reedus butt, the stuff that really made it special would have been entirely intact.
@@franzhopper7631 I forgot about that existing. At least that has the excuse of being a quick turn around license game for an airing show. The TMNT game was just a general franchise game and it still fumbled
I think Platimum games sell moderately and only really hit when someone else is in charge or when scandal happens like Bayo 3 bringing in eyeballs, is because they're bad at onboarding new players unlike Capcom. Every platinum game I've played assumes you've played Devil May Cry 3 already so doesn't have a good ease in to its mechanics or explanation. Capcom these last 6 years has hit a sweet spot of "this is our game, if you want in we'll take care of you but we're not changing the game mechanics." but Platinum lacks that focus on making the user experience smooth without sacrificing the game vision.
That have little correlation with sales, especially knowing that no PG game aside of , Bayo 1,MGR or W101 and few other before 2013 is kicking your ass on normal, they are already acessible. And the tired old example with Dark Souls shows that there's a big market for "hard" games. And yes, smoothing out the edges (outside of having good tutorial and difficulty modes) is sacrificing a game vision. in DMC 5 difficulty doesnt even starts before DMD. DMC 4 sold well and it has most jarring transition between easy and very complicated character ever.
Part of what makes this interesting is that Platinum released one of their best games this year, but a whole lot of people just skipped it because Bayo 3 left a weird taste in peoples mouths.
pat's point on platinum making games that don't really sell reminds me so much of the history of fallout and how bethesda is the only company to make any money with the IP. interplay went out of business trying to, new vegas is the worst selling modern fallout with fallout 4 making almost triple what NV made and fallout 76 has pretty much outlived almost every live service game that came out around the same time including the avengers.
I knew Wonderful 101 was in the shits when years back after their video of it Pat found out on the podcast that more people watched their video of it than people actually bought the game. Like just downright horrendous sales and that sucks cause the game truly is amazing but the stars just didn't align for Platinum
Now there is no one around at Platinum to put glasses on the female characters! I think this is a 50/50 coin toss between this being good or bad for Platinum. Kamiya is a big name, but he is a fucking nightmare to work with. To play devil's advocate for a moment with that Microsoft and Larian comment. NO ONE knew Baldur's Gate 3 was going to explode like it did. I mean, it was going to be a Stadia exclusive when it was first announced. Hell, Sony was not hyping up the game at all until AFTER it became a wild success. Just saying, but no one was expecting Baldur's Gate to be as good as it was. We knew it would be a good game, but no one was expecting it to be genre defining.
Your objectively wrong about that BS3 email. Mean maybe but as Lorian devs not just PR reminded people that email was from six years ago. Do you remember the busted ass early access launch that game had & WoC terrible decisions? Thinking investors where looking at that horrible launch & negative player rating & expecting them to successfully guess the game was going to turn it around is insane. Did you forget the number of games that failed through early access?
It's insane to me how hard this live service nonsense has infected Platinum. Maybe that's not why he's out but it really feels like it. To be a studio with absolutely no experience in the field, and whose only real implementation of online multiplayer previously was bad, just makes no sense. Just look at the other major studios who have gone that direction at least somewhat successfully, I would say Bungie/Blizzard/Riot. They all built up to that capability over a long time with major multiplayer modes that gradually got bigger over time. You can't just drop into it whole hog, especially with Platinum's back catalog.
It'd be cool to see him re-join Mikami and Suda in some cooperative studio (maybe Kojima, Taro, and possibly Itagaki can join as well as those guys are kind of like the renegades of Japanese game developers in some manner) or maybe take over Smash Bros. as director so that Sakurai can just produce and get some sleep and work on other projects.
I think that's a few too many big egos and uncompromising visionaries in one room tbh. You need the right ratio of hot heads and cool cats to keep the ship running at an even temperature.
while I figured this was coming to a head at some point, it's still unfortunate to see Kamiya and platinum games break up. that guy's actually the last lf the clover studios orphans to leave the weird anime shelter where occasionally. some people say that it was big ups for the guy when the VA controversy happened around Bayonetta 3 but i suspect that dinosaur or dragon game that xbox cancelled was the mark of death since just after that, the new acting ceo of platinum games was actively pushing against Kamiya.
@@shadowreaverrising1753 ah, that was the one about him hating coming of age stories. And blatantly disregarding coming of age stories he enjoyed because "coming of age stories can't be good, if I enjoyed it that means it's not one!" paraphrasing.
I'll be honest I have Wonderful 101 but I could get into it because even though it's a lot of fun it just didn't click with my brain at all. It felt bad to play to me for various reasons, even though I loved the world and presentation and everything.
I don't wanna take it for granted that a switch 2 will inevitably have backwards compatibility, because i always expect Nintendo to shoot themselves in the foot in some way. It seems like every company is willing to stumble over it, and Nintendo has done so several times, so better to always demand it than just assume they will.
They have a longer history of backwards compatibility than not in the past 25 years or so. The only reason the Switch doesn't is due to completely different architecture and a new gpu partner. The handhelds have pretty much all had backwards compatibility with their predecessor and the Wii was compatible with the Gamecube and WiiU with the Wii.
@@FredCracklin i know. The change in format is one of the main reasons, especially for the switch. But i don't think changing formats every 1-2 generations is a good excuse, especially with the move to digital. If Playstation and x-box are expected to retrofit their games forward and lack the excuse of different mediums to do so, Nintendo's accountability lies in still changing mediums and falling far behind in the digital space. Forced obsolescence isn't a better excuse than software compatibility issues. It's either the same... or worse, since the old games locked to proprietary hardware are most at risk of being left behind and lost.
One thing we can take away from all this is that Microsoft, internally, uses **STADIA** as a measure of things that will be miserably irrelevant, and die without fanfare.
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Kojima and Mikami picking up Kamiya in a black van and telling him “we want to tell you about the Clover initiative”
Kamiya: "Ok, hear me out. Space Harrier." Gets kicked out of the van.
You got your lore mixed up
Kamiya confidently walking out of the Platinum building with his boxers hanging out of his destroyed pants is not the story I expected to see this year but here we are
Kamiya wasn't about to leave without absolutely DESTROYING the office toilet on company time
His first RUclips video after leaving WAS about making curry....
Kamiya always struck me as a producer’s worst nightmare. Something about the way his games work plus his flamboyant persona gave the impression that there was a layer right under him making it all work.
He's like yoko taro or kojima where he must have his way and if it's weird af then there's nothing you can do.
@raccoonofmotivation20
Kamiya and a producer walk into a room to discuss any given project. Yelling starts, and several loud bangs can be heard from within
Kamiya walks out of the now dark room, with ragged clothes and covered in blood
And he says "Yeah, this ones gonna have Space Harrier take up a third of it too"
They didn’t obey his rules
He always came off as the Japanese version of 90's John Romero. This super cocky arrogant guy but people put up with him and gave him projects because everything he touched turned to gold.
@@samzilla567 except 75% of his games are commercial failures
I'd like for the guy who directed Astral Chain (Takahisa Taura) to take over, personally. That felt the most fresh and fun of all the recent platinum games, imo
Taura has been the breadmaker for Platinum for the last like 6 years. (Also was the Lead on Nier: A) Kamiya outside of Creative Vision roles (and I guess Sol Cresta) hasnt taken the reigns for a game since W101. Project GG was/is still years away from releasing.
But as they said on the Podcast: Inaba might be nuking Platinum over GAAS. He has stated his firm support for that business model since before Babylons Fall.
ADD: But I do think that Woolie goes hyperbole over Platinums output.
Every game that Platinum put out in the last 6 years was good (Nier A, Astral Chain, Bayo3, Bayo Origin, Sol Cresta, World of Demons), except for Babylons Fall. And with that I don't mean to say that, for example, Bayo 3 didn't have its faults, but every single Platinum Game has its own set of problems or... rough patches.
Probably the least non-clunky games were Astral Chain (, Nier A) and Anarchy Reigns (Anarchy Reigns biggest problem was the servers which SEGA provided/handled)
Agreed, thats a title that deserves it praise
I agree with you there somehow I got more into Astral than Bayo 2.
He has talent but he is also all in on GAAS so...I can't see him fully taking the reigns with any real shit in the future.
@@gettingannoyedquick "Somehow" he says
I have to imagine Kamiya has like, threatened to quit/walk out countless times and they just finally called his bluff.
... If he does it, how is it a bluff tho?
@@Idontevenwanachannel If he said it multiple times before, wasn't it a bluff?
@@MatthewCobalt Well no, otherwise he wouldn't have quit for good.
@@LuckeeStrikee Then it was only a bluff until he actually did it.
@@MatthewCobaltchicken vs egg argument autism needs to stop at age 5
kamiya is going to make a space harrier spiritual successor and ngl I'm all here for it
And it’s gonna have random, intrusive character-action sequences for maximum hype and fun.
I’m fucking not. They were always the worst part of every game he’s ever made
The day that Kamiya said that he would part ways with platinum, I looked on Instagram to see if they had a thank you letter up, but the first thing I saw was Kamiya's ripped pants
kamiya with space harrier is the game equivalent of that producer who kept trying to put giant robot spiders in movies in the 90s
Only difference is once he got the giant spider idea in a movie he stopped and Kamiya only got more intense about having MORE space harrier
With both Mikami and Kamiya both leaving there studios this year imagine if they teamed up again and we got Clover Studio 2.0
Game auteur theory about to be tested once again I think.
I would actually cry, we'd have a chance of getting a God Hand remaster
@@Canadish tbf mikami left because bethesda didnt allow him to just make games that aren't based on his resume (speak RE-likes)
Ngl
That would both be hype and terrifying
Is Mikami no longer working at Tango?
I found this news unbelievably unsurprising given platinums recent history. But honestly out of all the video game company "let's start our own game company with black jack and etc" to end up with key members leaving THAT company this is the penultimate example. It now feels like it's not "if" but when, whenever devs leave a huge publisher to make different publisher and then also leave that one. It's just inevitable now. Start the timer every time from now on.
It's almost like the underlying systems that structure these company's incentives leads to the same result given enough time...
If only we had a name for this superstructure that underpins our entire society so that we could critique it and progress to a more humane and equitable system.
@Canadish the fact that they can leave and start a new fresh studio/company/whatever is part of the capitalist system, not a bug/circumvention.
if the company you work for starts to make you hate your job so you leave it and start your own company only for the same thing to happen there......maybe you're the problem?
@@Canadish
Oh, that systematic problem has a name, but we all know that most morons won’t care about critiquing it. Pat and Woolie have been critiquing it for a long time, bur morons only care about it now because it is interfering with their video games. XD
@@RipOffProductionsLLC The fact they continually *need* to do so *is* a 'bug' however.
Platinum's luster: Fades
Kamiya: I am announcing my new indie studio, _Mythril._
Can't wait for Orihalcum Games
@@posteriorpepperoni ngl this was my first choice I just decided on brevity
Unobtanium Games, co-founded by Hideo Kojima, Hideki Kamiya, Yoko Taro, and Suda51. Will whatever they release be remotely playable? Maybe. Will you inexplicably enjoy it regardless? Probably.
@@funnyvalentinedidnothingwrong unobtanium also crossed my mind.. anyway this team would just become the zaibatsu government council of Japan. They'd basically become Seele
(And yes ignore that I used the forbidden word)
nah nah nah
_Valiantium_
The irony how the one that regained its luster was eventually the place where Platinum left from.
Yeah, Capcom has been doing pretty damn well as Platinum is currently doing the financial equivalent of locking itself in a bathroom without toilet paper.
He finally got sick of being told to get off twitter.
No, he couldn’t block anymore on Elon Musk’s X.
Kamiya, Kojima and Yoko Taro need to work together on a project. The people trying to wrangle them would have a mental breakdown.
Kojima calls Geoff Keighley to be the negotiator. He comes to the studio and pulls three guns and says: "The last one standing wins." Little do Kamiya and Yoko know is that their guns have blanks and Kojima has the real ones.
@@TheDarck232that's when it turns out the other two brought a gun of their own in
Can't wait to use the analogue stick to draw a line around the save file I want to delete
@@posteriorpepperoniKamiya reveals he pre stabbed Kojima, and Geoff by hiding knives in their seats.
I'ma boreal with you chief, that game would be ASS
I cant believe I took Kaimiya's block to heart when he is punishing his goolies with a lack of support.
It's like having your friends sleep in a torn hammock.
Give him his drawers money.
At least Shinji Mikami is still on board, oh wait.
"A lot of fans are saying they don't like what you're doing with Bayonetta"
"Yeah but I blocked them on Twitter so they don't matter anymore"
What is Woolie talking about when he says Nintendo being not that far away from being a Sega style software only company? Like I thought the switch was performing extremely well, that was a pretty crazy take.
Woolie occasionally has crazy takes
I mean, I COULD see them moving to being software only. But that's PURELY because Nintendo would go "Nah, don't feel like it" for making a new console, not because they couldn't.
Maybe his brain reset to 2015, I know mine does sometimes
Yeah, the Switch is like the third best selling system ever, well over 100 million units sold and a line-up of numerous titles that have sold ridiculously well. They’re doing *really* well rn.
I was also similarly baffled lol.
Finally, Scalebound 2 is confirmed as made by Capcom.
Character Action Game, but Royal Guard is the entire mechanical set.
So Sekiro.
Oh cool I like Sekiro too.
I want Kamiya to be completely shameless and make his company called Titanium Games and create games like Kniferella and The Incredible 201
Gorgeous Jorge
"Because Titanium never bends."
He gets into a huge blow up with Titanium games and starts another studio called Tungsten Steel Games.
"Did you need to scan in Del Toro?" Yes. Spiritually, yes.
This low key strikes me as the end of platinum. Kamiya was always dreaming but also quality control and he just made it work by having talented people from Clover. Now there’s nothing.
That time Kamiya did 305 on squat ripping both his pants and undies. I would leave my company too
Damn rest in peace platinum
“I don’t see why I should throw em’ out if the elastic band still works.”- Kamiya probably
Growing up broke changes a man
Man it took for ages for my eyes too see underwear, I was like "Why the fuck is woolie goatsying me today? Like he used some material filter to make it look like clothes" but like finally I seen the legs and not fingers.
4:56 clapped until my hands turned into dust
Come Clap my chicks till they turn to crispy bacon?
Me too!!!
Vanillaware seems to have figured something out... but I'm not sure what.
One awesome and fairly low budget yet somehow high polish game at a time, small staff who are mostly artists, unified vision, and the willingness to do it while only being able to afford saltines for breakfast lunch and dinner.
21:00 This was at least partially just him speaking plainly here too, they've said they only expected like 100k players at launch.
I think the joy of getting blocked by Kamiya is probably the same I felt getting muted by Woolie vs. Where you love the content regardless but find it funny you said something that was worth the interaction.
Me getting blocked my max dood makes me feel like a ex boy friend
@@Mr.Faust3I hate to be that guy, but what yall say?
@@busterwolf6973 I said DnF duel was bad but I didn’t mean it I was in a bad place (I went 0-3 with a striker)
@@busterwolf6973 IDK what I said but it was probably something stupid. Just noticed one day I could see that woolie would reply to comments but when I checked to see what he said they were blank.
@@Mr.Faust3 if it makes yall feel anybetter, DNF IS bad, and Woolie will always be a liar.
Kidding.
Everything needs a space harrier section sir this is a Denny's
Baulder's Gate 3 is a second run stadia game because it was originally going to be a Stadia exclusive, and then come to other platforms later aka the "second run". Second run is not the same as "second rate".
Can you imagine the timeline where Stadia doesn't shutdown and the best RPG of the generation launches on it? That would've been wild.
Brotherman the Stadia was an absolute fuccin nightmare. Imagine not running your games from an SSD. BG3 would not have been as good as it was it was made for that thing.
@@ethanwalker955 There would've been so many stadia users going like "No, if you ignore the bugs and awful load times, this game is really awesome and totally worth a stadia sub!" and the rest of us would just roll our eyes and be like "pfft, whatever fanboy."
of the generation is extremely pushing it, man. you can't even fucking pause bg3. I have nearly 140 hours in bg3 and it is a very good game. but best rpg of the generation is the most insane thing.
@@ohmygoditisspider7953 "You can't pause this turn-based game"
You need to go see a doctor, you have clearly experienced some severe head trauma.
@@ohmygoditisspider7953Dude… just click the button that says “TURN BASED MODE” and there you go, you’ve paused it lmao
Said it before, and I'll say it again. A new veiwtiful Joe would be FUCKING WILD right now bro.
Platinum only really needed a really sharp Marketing guy
Platinum can do gameplay, they just never achieved the lightning-in-bottle to create a brand that connected with general audiences. And character action games aren’t a niche genre, but they aren’t a mass market genre the way FPS games are. And there are different risks involved when you are transparently making “mass market appeal” design choices. We’ve all seen that result in contentious games. But Platinum could have really used some characters people liked who were not Bayonetta or something.
It seems like they really tried to push luka with their most recent releases and no one likes him
@@catantcha99Well maybe if they hadn't turned him into a multiversal fairy furry and made him shine brighter than Viola and arguably Cereza in the ending, maybe people wouldn't hate him so much
@@catantcha99 The ending of Bayo 3 isn’t really relevant to “Why doesn’t Platinum have a franchise that can carry them like Street Fighter or Resident Evil?” Bayonetta’s broad appeal issues begin at “It is a Devil May Cry game about a sexy witch who kills angles + time travel/multiverse nonsense.” Bayonetta is probably the best known Platinum game other than Metal Gear Rising, which is an IP they don’t own. This company doesn’t make anything that breaks into the mainstream. Like, Atlus will be fine making a bunch of niche games almost nobody plays because when Persona 6 drops they will swim in cash. Square Enix can botch Avengers because Final Fantasy 7 is such a powerful brand, it can be successful even with Tetsuya Nomura writing it
@@TheJadedJames tetsuya nomura did not write ff7 remake also I am a kingdom hearts fan that enjoys the story of the game
@@TheJadedJamesnomura’s been writing and handling the world of 7 from the first game, and he’s not the lead writer easily
In regards to the mention of Xbox and BG3:
Second Run doesn't mean Second Rate, it means the game would literally be having a "second" run if it came to xbox, meaning it would have reduced interest because its already out on other platforms.
in fairness if i was working at larian i'd probably assume BG3 wouldn't have sold well either because of the OGL drama with DnD and the overall drama with WotC.
it's nice that none of that drama affected them in the end.
4:15 Okay, but a Mario Tennis game where the match winning point turns into a 5 second space harrior game where one team controls the ball and the others control obstacles that try to block sounds hype as shit?
Platinum: can't lustre in the fluster.
Countdown to a Kamiya kickstarter game
Takahisa Taura working with square on ff16 also makes me think he might also jump ship too... wonder how its gonna go for platinum now
Probably better considering they only did well financially when Yoko Taro came in.
So the reason why Granblue Relink looks like it’s got Platinum combat is because Cygames poached some of the guys when they were working on the game originally.
Most notably, Yasuyuki Kaji left Platinum and joined Cygames as the director for Granblue Fantasy: Relink. He was a lead level designer when working under Platinum.
Shit has been in development for like ten years too
I swear Sam Lake is the auteur everyone forgets about :(
Who?
@@diegomedina9637 creative director of Remedy, Writes for the Alan Wake series, and also on Max Payne 1 and 2.
@@AceRevero Basically literally who.
@@diegomedina9637you should play all of those games.
@@diegomedina9637 Hey. Max Payne earned respect... the rest can get meh-ed BUT MAX PAYNE
Tbh ill be looking at both, but im more curious at Platinum than at Kamiyas future.
I think he is an absolute schmuck, but he makes good ass games i cant deny that
Kamiya has his five moves of doom.
Glasses Fetish
Space Harrier
Tokosatsu
Queer Bait
Block
And of course No Sell the match.
Hey don't forget the good old "boss starts an attack animation mid cutscene and you immediately get hit as the fight starts unless you dodge right away"
@@zeroattentiongaming820 QTE Styling is only pulled out in the match at PPVs
Creativity needs to be tempered by reality. This is why you get clover/platinum not making money on their own projects while committee/algorithm can't keep an audiance and can't make anything compelling
No it doesn't
@@Vanity0666how so?
@@Dracobyte because money is not real and has no actual value beyond what people believe it does thus making it an extremely stupid flagpole to base one's "reality" upon
@@Vanity0666 are you high?
@@miguelnewmexico8641 regularly but that's besides the point
People talk about Kamiya like he's the only one who knows how to make a character action game but when I think about the games he's had more control over in recent years, they're filled with constant bad minigames and poorly told stories while the character action becomes less important. I'm excited for new people to take over and seeing if they can course correct.
This is the funniest thumbnail/title combination i have ever seen thanks fellas
So now bayonutta belongs to whoever, and kamiya no longer has royal guard. Rip for platinum games future
I mean, 2 and 3 were trash anyway
@@makeitthrough_ nah 2 is great idk what u mean
@jartoonsuwu 2 could have certainly been better with gameplay, but as it stands yeah, that's a fun game
@@makeitthrough_nah you just suck
And that’s a casual telling you that
@@makeitthrough_ 2 wasn't trash, stop smoking lego bricks
To be fair- Peach and Daisy should be wearing glasses. He'd be right about that one.
Rest in peace Platinum. While I will always hold out hope for MGR2 its been a bash.
If Silent Hill does well I imagine MGR2 will happen someday.
He should link back up with Mikami at Tango Gameworks
nvm, apparently Mikami left like seven months ago lol
Mikami left
@@Upsetkiller456yeah that is what I was going to say.
21:20
Pat and Woolie simultaneously remembering the sword
"Don't make it bad on purpose Suda!"
Instructions unclear, made No More Heroes 3.
I like nmh3 for what it is, it's a really fun game in conjunction with Travis Strikes Back
"you should sell out and make games that sell instead of good games"
you heard it here folks woolie and pats finical advice is to give up on morals
Welp so much for those Bayo sequels
Why?
Kamiya did not make 2 & 3.
@@Dracobyte he still supervised the production of both, co wrote 2 and became the main writer of 3 after they didn't bring back Bingo Morihashi. He clearly was still heavily involved even if it wasn't as the director.
i always had hope as long as Kamiya was still in Platinum Games.... not anymore
Kojima might be the *worst* of the auteurs in terms of self-indulgence. Reminder that he wanted to make the fight with The End two weeks long.
Real Time?!
@@HillthugstaReal Time
Remember when the fight with Higgs just turned into MGS4, and then it had 5 more endings after that? Death Stranding was good, but the story can SLOG at the ending.
To be fair with Kojima, he gives freedom for his fellow producers, designers to give input on his ideas and when they tell him his idea is shit, he would generally scale back or abandon it.
I remember when he tweeted about Bayo 3s garbage story and its reception. Very bluntly stated if you weren't a fan of the story decisions, you really shouldn't play their next games.
I just don't know why anyone making a game would think that's a good thing to say. Same thing happened with BF5, told angry fans not to buy it. So they didn't, and the game sold terribly lol
BFV tbf got pretty shafted considering the guy who said that immediately left to try and help make a Battlefield competitor, and that it was revealed not long after Battlefront 2s god awful launch.
And then when public opinion finally starts to turn around from all the good support both games got it was cut off so they could try and salvage BF2042, and look how that turned out.
@@jimbob1862 Nah but there was also a leaked executive/higher up meeting where they blatantly joke and shit talk all the criticism and poor performance BF5 got. EA and Dice higher ups were in full on *"you didn't win! You didn't win!"* mode.
And a lot of negative sentiment came from them directly stating on a presentation stage it'd be historically faithful, but then they blatantly cherry pick and retell events way differently to fit the narrative they wanted to tell.
If they had just said BF5 was alternate history it would've been fine, but they wanted to have their cake and eat it to.
@@NeutralGuyDoubleZero I'm aware of why the controversy blew up, and that it wasnt just the one exec with that attitude, but that doesn't really conflict with my point that the game itself and most of the studio got shafted a lot.
I didn't buy either game at launch and only when they were in a deep sale, but given that I waited barely a year for a game that in both cases was significantly cheaper and better than the betas, Im pretty happy to give the devs the dues they deserve for turning both around so well.
@@NeutralGuyDoubleZero eat it to what?
What's this whole thing about people suddenly caring about story in Bayonetta? Last I checked I thought the general agreement was the stories in Bayo 1 and 2 were by far the weakest element and most people just went "don't care if the story is meh, just here for the kickass action." Why is Bayo 3 suddenly the game where people starting giving a damn about an aspect people didn't care that much about when it came to the first two?
considering the only work Platinum gets that actually pays them is Support Work for Square eNFTix & their last project had them outsource a Capcom combat designer
yeah i can 100% see Kamiya having a Heated Gamer Moment & everyone just calling out the bluff
10:30 Woolie is absolutely right about Death Stranding being able to be a kickstarter type of game. A lot of what made Death Stranding special (outside of the whole hollywood celebrities bit, but we're talking gameplay here, not cinematics) was systemic, about systems interconnecting. Connecting your world to other players' world, delivering packages for other players, sharing constructions, all of that could have been done with an aesthetic that took inspiration from old PS1 titles, and so went with a simplistic visual style, without all of the Sony studios multimillion dollar budget for making sure every rock and every blade of grass glistens in the rain in the morning sun. Death Stranding could have been made with a way smaller budget and while it would have lost a certain je ne sais quois that came with the photorealistic naked norman reedus butt, the stuff that really made it special would have been entirely intact.
16:55 Yeah but they even messed that up with their TMNT game
Didn't they also do that Korra game?
@@franzhopper7631 I forgot about that existing. At least that has the excuse of being a quick turn around license game for an airing show. The TMNT game was just a general franchise game and it still fumbled
@@cyberninjazero5659 At least Transformers Devastation was the more decent one out of the three licensed games that Platinum developed.
I think Platimum games sell moderately and only really hit when someone else is in charge or when scandal happens like Bayo 3 bringing in eyeballs, is because they're bad at onboarding new players unlike Capcom. Every platinum game I've played assumes you've played Devil May Cry 3 already so doesn't have a good ease in to its mechanics or explanation. Capcom these last 6 years has hit a sweet spot of "this is our game, if you want in we'll take care of you but we're not changing the game mechanics." but Platinum lacks that focus on making the user experience smooth without sacrificing the game vision.
That have little correlation with sales, especially knowing that no PG game aside of , Bayo 1,MGR or W101 and few other before 2013 is kicking your ass on normal, they are already acessible. And the tired old example with Dark Souls shows that there's a big market for "hard" games. And yes, smoothing out the edges (outside of having good tutorial and difficulty modes) is sacrificing a game vision. in DMC 5 difficulty doesnt even starts before DMD. DMC 4 sold well and it has most jarring transition between easy and very complicated character ever.
Woolie: Sir this is Mario Tennis what are you talking about?
Kamiya: So what you can play tennis on a space harrier
Part of what makes this interesting is that Platinum released one of their best games this year, but a whole lot of people just skipped it because Bayo 3 left a weird taste in peoples mouths.
Bayo 3 saga wasn't a bad thing for the company though, its one of those "there is no bad publicity" situations, can't be attributed to that
Other than your own anecdotal experience of course, maybe that's how it was for you
I like Space Harrier.
I think all games should have kamiya esque non sequitors of gameplay from here on out in tribute. Love that shit. NieR rocks
Mandatory Panzer Dragoon Sections is the Yoko Taro equivalent
@@Vanity0666 yea and it fucking rules every time
@@jartism agree
RIP: Platinum Games and Kamiya's boxers.
pat's point on platinum making games that don't really sell reminds me so much of the history of fallout and how bethesda is the only company to make any money with the IP.
interplay went out of business trying to, new vegas is the worst selling modern fallout with fallout 4 making almost triple what NV made and fallout 76 has pretty much outlived almost every live service game that came out around the same time including the avengers.
About w101 not selling, two words:
Wii U.
To be fair the re-release didn't sell either and that one is on all plattforms.
LOL Nintendo would NEVER BECOME A 3RD PARTY COMPANY
I knew Wonderful 101 was in the shits when years back after their video of it Pat found out on the podcast that more people watched their video of it than people actually bought the game. Like just downright horrendous sales and that sucks cause the game truly is amazing but the stars just didn't align for Platinum
Yoko taro is the father of "the game is bad on purpose"
He took notes from his direct superiors at Namco in the 90s
Now there is no one around at Platinum to put glasses on the female characters!
I think this is a 50/50 coin toss between this being good or bad for Platinum. Kamiya is a big name, but he is a fucking nightmare to work with.
To play devil's advocate for a moment with that Microsoft and Larian comment. NO ONE knew Baldur's Gate 3 was going to explode like it did. I mean, it was going to be a Stadia exclusive when it was first announced. Hell, Sony was not hyping up the game at all until AFTER it became a wild success. Just saying, but no one was expecting Baldur's Gate to be as good as it was. We knew it would be a good game, but no one was expecting it to be genre defining.
Very true with BG3!
Producer speaks "BLOCKED!"
remember when kojima's out and death stranding turns out to be super unhinged,
Your objectively wrong about that BS3 email. Mean maybe but as Lorian devs not just PR reminded people that email was from six years ago. Do you remember the busted ass early access launch that game had & WoC terrible decisions?
Thinking investors where looking at that horrible launch & negative player rating & expecting them to successfully guess the game was going to turn it around is insane. Did you forget the number of games that failed through early access?
Could he do a Sakurai where he's independent but they bring him in to do the games he's known for at Capcom?
The first Bayonetta was pretty cool. Sadly the rest are not on PC.
It's insane to me how hard this live service nonsense has infected Platinum. Maybe that's not why he's out but it really feels like it. To be a studio with absolutely no experience in the field, and whose only real implementation of online multiplayer previously was bad, just makes no sense. Just look at the other major studios who have gone that direction at least somewhat successfully, I would say Bungie/Blizzard/Riot. They all built up to that capability over a long time with major multiplayer modes that gradually got bigger over time. You can't just drop into it whole hog, especially with Platinum's back catalog.
... more service games coming down the pipeline
It'd be cool to see him re-join Mikami and Suda in some cooperative studio (maybe Kojima, Taro, and possibly Itagaki can join as well as those guys are kind of like the renegades of Japanese game developers in some manner) or maybe take over Smash Bros. as director so that Sakurai can just produce and get some sleep and work on other projects.
I think that's a few too many big egos and uncompromising visionaries in one room tbh. You need the right ratio of hot heads and cool cats to keep the ship running at an even temperature.
"no-one cares" about Astral Chain may be a bold statement after it sold at least 1.5 million copies.
while I figured this was coming to a head at some point, it's still unfortunate to see Kamiya and platinum games break up. that guy's actually the last lf the clover studios orphans to leave the weird anime shelter where occasionally. some people say that it was big ups for the guy when the VA controversy happened around Bayonetta 3 but i suspect that dinosaur or dragon game that xbox cancelled was the mark of death since just after that, the new acting ceo of platinum games was actively pushing against Kamiya.
Yup. They rolled right into the other podcast. Skipped last weeks cyberpunk discussion 😕
Cyberpunk discussion huh? What did they talk about specifically?
@@throwdown1776Probably the dlc -Sons of Pain- Phantom Liberty
@@throwdown1776 last podcast pat brought up that he finally begrudgingly started watching Edgerunners. He got 5 episodes in.
@@shadowreaverrising1753 ah, that was the one about him hating coming of age stories. And blatantly disregarding coming of age stories he enjoyed because "coming of age stories can't be good, if I enjoyed it that means it's not one!"
paraphrasing.
Woolie can only upload so much of Pat's crazy before having to rebrand to Pat Stares At (/joking).
Kamiya is the kind of guy that would shit himself and block you on social media for telling him he smells like shit.
And they say there's no more heroes.
I think he saw the writing on the wall. He'll be fine.
Saw some speculation (not rumors, just musings) that maybe he got Nagoshi'd and is going to be with Netease soon. Time will tell I guess lol.
The morale of the whole podcast clip is, please go play Wonderful 101
unironically, nah no thanks. it slays me how many people still go hard to bat for wonderful 101
@@swagtasticpanda Worst reply to a comment I have ever received in my life
@@swagtasticpanda people like things. crazy i know.
I'll be honest I have Wonderful 101 but I could get into it because even though it's a lot of fun it just didn't click with my brain at all. It felt bad to play to me for various reasons, even though I loved the world and presentation and everything.
Kamiya could end up starting a new small studio.
I hate this thumbnail so much
What if he joins Microsoft to finish this dragongame they cancelled some years ago 😂
I don't wanna take it for granted that a switch 2 will inevitably have backwards compatibility, because i always expect Nintendo to shoot themselves in the foot in some way. It seems like every company is willing to stumble over it, and Nintendo has done so several times, so better to always demand it than just assume they will.
They have a longer history of backwards compatibility than not in the past 25 years or so. The only reason the Switch doesn't is due to completely different architecture and a new gpu partner. The handhelds have pretty much all had backwards compatibility with their predecessor and the Wii was compatible with the Gamecube and WiiU with the Wii.
@@FredCracklin i know. The change in format is one of the main reasons, especially for the switch. But i don't think changing formats every 1-2 generations is a good excuse, especially with the move to digital. If Playstation and x-box are expected to retrofit their games forward and lack the excuse of different mediums to do so, Nintendo's accountability lies in still changing mediums and falling far behind in the digital space. Forced obsolescence isn't a better excuse than software compatibility issues. It's either the same... or worse, since the old games locked to proprietary hardware are most at risk of being left behind and lost.
One thing we can take away from all this is that Microsoft, internally, uses **STADIA** as a measure of things that will be miserably irrelevant, and die without fanfare.
do you think it was in that order
@BestTeaMaker was really cooking with this thumbnail. Props my dude 👍
Thanks!
Fucking wild Netflix releasing dmc trailer right after kamiya left platinum
Wha...?
@@viewtiful1doubleokamihand253yup, and that anime is being supervised by Hideaki Itsuno.
@@Dracobyte Ooooh myyyyy goooood ! Anyway, wonder when The Wonderful 101 Netflix series comes out. Now THAT would've been a thing to wait.
If Hideki Kamiya never touches a Bayonetta game again and makes Okami 2 I will forgive him
Okami-den fills my soul with sadness.