Definitely like having air integration. I run a Mares Icon, and the amount of great data that is captured by it is great. SAC rates, Start and End tank pressure logging. It's amazing. That said, I still have a backup SPG. On another note, Tech Clark mentions not using them because they get damaged easily. Most of the people I dive with, and myself included, always put the transmitter on a short 6 inch HP hose so that it can flex and move should it ever take a hit.
I moved over to GARMIN Descent MK2i air integration and LOVE it not just for the convenience but also for monitoring my kid’s air and all of the data that comes with it that you don’t get out of an SPG.
Air integration is perfect for convenience and monitoring other divers and I love that! Having said this, we as divers love to preach redundancy and therefore I still believe an SPG is to air integration as an Octo is to a regulator set. I have to add this as well, only having an SPG is probably hypocritical in my previous statement, however I suppose you could always just use the Edd Sorenson method.
Totally agree. They teach redundancy in the military and gov. I don't want to be caught with a broken computer. It only takes one time to send you to the grave. Air integrated is awesome but it's never going to be the only thing I have.I love these guys but I can't help but feel this may give people a green light for complacency. Gear is reliable until that one time and then the narrative changes just like with anything else. Keep up the good work, I'm in the process of watching from day 1.
@@ToTheStarsSBBut a broken computer or transmitter isn't an emergency. It doesn't reduce the amount of gas I have. I'm a cave diver and I check how much gas I have regularly. If a computer fails that's a gear malfunction and I call the dive, same as a broken light or mask strap. I've done my gas planning so I know I can make it out with the gas I had left even when I can't see it. On the other hand, I've had a broken SPG hose connection that was leaking gas. Meaning I either have to close the valve (in backmount) or feather it (in sidemount) to preserve that gas. I much prefer the first situation.
@@Yggdrasil42 I agree. Air integration (without the HP short extension hose) has less o-ring potential leak points, one static o-ring and no dynamic o-rings for transmitter. I'm not concerned about not having flexible HP hose if the HP port is oriented on my first stage such that my transmitter is protected under my arm in Sidemount or pointed down and inward tucked in towards tanks for back mount. In my experience working around industrial machines with analog gauges and electronic pressure transducers, like what's used in air integrated transmitters, I've developed a few views on accuracy advantages for pressure transducers. In short I prefer the failure modes in digital gauges over analog gauges. My opinion is that digital gauges usually tell you I don't know the pressure when they fail, and analog gauges will lie to you and tell you a false pressure when they fail (and that false pressure is generally more pressure than you actually have as the gauge ages from my experience). Over years of use I've seen analog gauges lose accuracy and read falsely high from stretching bourdon tubes or springs. If over pressurized briefly, I've seen analog gauges always read high there after. Over the sensor range and sensor's life I've seen pressure transducers to be more accurate when new and old (industrial versions but same technology as SCUBA SPGs and transmitters). Final thought, in my factory experience, we get more consistent daily reports on machine checks from digital pressure transducer sensor values from operators since the digital display removes variables like gauge parallax, different operators reading value at left, center, or right of needle, people miscounting the gauge tick marks between numbered main ticks, etc.
@@Yggdrasil42 A broken computer/transmitter would then make it so you can't view the O2 percentage in your loop and therefore your loop may get in theory too much or too little oxygen, depending on your depth and how o2 gets added. I suppose you are supposed to feel how much o2 is in the air you are breathing and adjust based off of that. But if you're on open circuit then I could see why a broken computer/transmitter wouldn't necessarily constitute an emergency for the reasons you shared, as long as the dive is shallow enough or you have a buddy with you. Still, you would want to know your depth at any given moment or at least have memorized the locations for where stops are supposed to take place and for how long. Then you have to operate by an approximate sense of time, where leaving or overextending a deep stop could be hazardous. I'm actually not following your logic on why it would be safe to have all computers in the cave shut down at once at the deepest part of the dive. Certainly if you brought a stop watch with you, or depth gauge with you, you are doing much better, but I guess without all of that is still fine as long as you are diving a very safe profile maybe one you've done many times before and so you know where the stops are and for how long and all that. And of course being with a buddy whose computer isn't broken would also be fine since you can follow their navigation. So in that case losing your buddy would constitute an emergency, or not? But still the computers are redundant systems so overall if you are diving with a buddy or group then somebody's computer will be working almost surely - though their stops would be affected by their specific dive profile, not yours, so it still wouldn't really be as safe, though still not necessarily an emergency.
Hello Gus and Woody, this video is very nice.. For me, the integration of gas is very reliable, technology has advanced so much that a modern transmitter is already safe as spg, however, at first it might give you a bit of nerves knowing that you do not have a mechanical instrument. I have a Scubapro G2 computer and its transmitter and in 700 dives it has never failed.
Thanks for your comment! I've bought a G2 w/ transmitter from my local dive shop on clearance and haven't decided yet if I want to remove my SPG or keep both. I think doing a few local lake dives or pool dives with both may help me become familiar with its behavior first.
Hello Steve, I tell you, my G2 is wonderful and coincidentally today, Sunday, December 3, my transmitter's battery ran out, after having made 500 dives. He is happy with my computer. Now I'm going to change the battery. Happy bubbles.
Definitely I use both… I relied on the air integration transmitter but have an SPG in all 3 of my setting!! Never had a failure but keep them clean and well maintained!! I religiously change all my o-rings once a year.. regardless!!
I recently switched to full air integration and I love it. It certainly makes my set up streamlined and that is a plus for me. I use two AI computers (primary/back up) and neither has failed during a dive. Technology of the transmitter has come a long way and will only improve over time.
I use both, but the SPG is my pressure indication, and the AI is the backup. Realistically, I use the SPG at all times, and may add the AI for datalogging in order to track my SAC / RMV, but it is always the secondary device. On open circuit doubles, using both also provides a pressure indication on each side in the event that you have to isolate.
I use both - very glad of that because I had what I thought was a transmitter battery failure, and it turned out it was actually my Teric's antenna breaking. I would have lost 6-7 dives if I didn't have a backup SPG on that trip.
I use Swift transmitters on both SM tanks as well as o2. Love the convenience. I will say that they transmitters absolutely DO FAIL, I have personally had 2 Swifts fail, and I have witnessed a friend's fail first hand as well. But as always Shearwater's customer service was second to none. Love Shearwater!! I do use button SPGs on my SM tanks but not as a backup but as a convenience tool. I use several difference sets of tanks and I can't always remember how much gas is left in a set from previous session, so with the buttons I can quickly verify I'm on a fully filled set without having to turn on computer, sync, etc (yes I could just use a standalone gauge, but I just don't). I don't need a backup SPG for my way of diving where I always know roughly how much gas I have and if I do have a failure on a more critical dive, then it's just time to call it and go home.
I started out SPG only, so it’s built into my philosophy, gradually mixing in AI, now use both but SPG only as a safety backup and primarily use AI computer.
I use both Air integration and SPG when I dive jacket/backplate and wing, when I dive sidemount I only use SPG. The reason I personal use both when diving a jacket/backplate and wing is I can always confirm my pressure and it also shows to my students when I teach open water that I look at my SPG as well.
The reason why I eliminated the air integration for sidemount is that I had my spgs to where I can look at them. Also I wanted to reduce failure points when I am doing deep dives.
Team both here - I am all about redundancy. Plus AI is great on sidemount because I don’t need to change my trim to see what my pressure is and when to switch tanks, just look at my wrists. And in the unlikely event both my Perdix fail…or if I run into my Fundies instructor Beto Nava while diving I can lol at the SPG (yes, it’s happened).
After 45 years I’ve never used Air integration but I’d love to try one but I’d always have a SPG as back up. I’ve heard story’s of SPGs blowing up when air is turned on or on pre dive check the needle jumping around indicating a SPG problem but I’ve never seen either myself. So I’d always use a SPG 110%.
Glad you said this! Exactly what was going through my mind...24 years and I've never seen an explosive SPG failure. My training is to be sure to aim the SPG face away when you turn on the air in case of a failure, but never seen that happen ever...not saying it couldn't, and I do turn it away towards the ground...but I also hold the LP inflator on when I open the tank valve too...
As a new diver, I'm surprised divers aren't using both, just from the perspective conservativeness. If only AI, and AI fails - then dive over; If only SPG and SPG fails - then dive over. If AI and SPG, and one fails - then dive *may* be over. Great point that there's no correct way! Healthy perspectives and GREAT VIDEO!
I think the biggest difference for me is: a. Air Integration is SUPER RELIABLE...like fin straps. Nobody dives with an extra fin just in case a strap breaks...could it happen? Yeah, but the chances of it happening to a good pair of fins is so remote that no one dives with extra fins. That's how I see Air Integration, the chance of it failing is so remote that if or when they do, I just end the dive. b. If a transmitter runs out of battery for example (it shouldn't because battery lasts for most people around 2 years and it should be changed every year to make sure it never goes low), nothing happens, your air is still in the tank, you just can't see how much you have left but if you were diving thirds you should be able to ascend at a normal speed and do your stop and everything, literally zero issues (other than ending the dive early). But when an SPG fails, well, you have an air leak, the last one I used failed on a boat while we were still at the dock waiting to leave, no foul play or dropping the tank or damage of anyway, it just imploded all of the sudden. Had to rush and close the tank. Luckily the captain of the boat had a backup and I could do the dives that day. So I don't see a need for SPGs.
@@DIVETALK Thank you very much for the detailed response! As a new diver, this will assist me greatly! I just bought the Garmin AI, and have been wondering deeply about this topic. Another Q: I've been advised to buy a 6' high pressure hose to attach the AI to. I think I will also need a Metric Allen Wrench. What are you opinions here? Great content as always, and thanks again!
I've only just installed the Shearwater transmitter to pair with the Teric and have only done 3 or 4 dives with it. For now I am keeping the SPG until I feel confident that the transmitter works flawlessly every time. Good to hear other people's praise about modern transmitters though, that gives me a lot more confidence. I expect the SPG will be heading the way of the dinos soon enough.
I use both. Shearwater Teric + Swift + Apeks Tech SPG. On the last dive trip of the season, couple of weeks ago, my Swift stopped working, transmitting unreliable pressure (random from 0 to 344 bars). I switched to SPG and completed my dives. Shearwater confirmed I had a failure and they were happy to replace it for me. But without my SPG, I would be...
Love the air integration, however, if you are on a dive trip, either assemble your gear yourself or tell the guy who assembles your gear NEVER to use that transmitter as a handle to lift the entire BCD + tank. I've seen 2 people's transmitters get broken on my last dive trip because of this.
This was great to hear how the different pros do it! Learning curve! I would love to visit DEMA and ask millions of questions and eyeball all the awesome stuff XD
I've always been SPG only (not the cluster type); never really trusted those transmitters much, but when I /finally/ make the switch from SCRs to CCRs then I'll probably go integrated and still have an SPG for backup.
I'm SPG only, for two reasons. First, they've been incredibly cheap and reliable (10-20% accuracy is plenty, since on a no-deco plan you really just care about what fraction of your tank you have left). Second, I have a few different computers and a few different regulators & Rebreathers which means my gear configuration is not constant and trying to deal with pairing the right things with the right computer is extra hassle/task loading that I don't need. It's enough to have to verify the mix on the tank with the computers. I also know salt water and electronics don't mix, so I try to have less of that, though it's not a deciding factor.
I prefer an SPG, with a transmitter you have to worry yet about another battery for something vital as your air pressure. It is fragile and easy to lose. I am a recreational diver who likes to rely on electronics as less as possible. I use a computer but also a mechanical automatic diver's watch and even consult my decompression table. Most new divers don't even know how to use a decompression table anymore so if their computer fails they cannot dive, but I do!
I’d love to to see you guys do more of this “game show” theme .. maybe see if you guys can stump each other with some questions .. I learn something new in every one of your videos
I was diving doubles and I actually had the swift flood on me during a decent. I switched to my spg and was able to continue the dive. I still use ai on my liberty. Also I currently have 4 ai and only one has had a issue, which was quickly fixed by shearwater. Still using and loving their products. Just put it out there.
Love AI and love my Shearwater. But all it took was for my transmitter battery to die on a dive. I will always dive with a backup SPG. Redundancy is a must.
I prefer an SPG, with a transmitter you have to worry yet about another battery for something vital as your air pressure. It is fragile and easy to lose. I am a recreational diver who likes to rely on electronics as less as possible. I use a computer but also a mechanical automatic diver's watch and even consult my decompression table. Most new divers don't even know how to use a decompression table anymore so if their computer fails they cannot dive, but I do!
I thought we should use both. We take backup masks, backup cylinders for a reason. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. When the air integration fails (not IF but WHEN), having a backup will be helpful :)
I prefer an SPG, with a transmitter you have to worry yet about another battery for something vital as your air pressure. It is fragile and easy to lose. I am a recreational diver who likes to rely on electronics as less as possible. I use a computer but also a mechanical automatic diver's watch and even consult my decompression table. Most new divers don't even know how to use a decompression table anymore so if their computer fails they cannot dive, but I do!
I use both, the reason being is that I use a Suunto Eon computer and cannot check the battery status of the transmitter (pod) so in case of battery failure I don’t have to cancel the dive. Having said that, I have no connectivity issues whatsoever with that set up.
I used tobuse a splitter with myvside mount so I had AI and gauges. That just created more failure points so now I just do AI. I read an article that really made great points. In the end, any failure, you thumb the dive. If a computer or transmitter fails, you should know how much air you had within 5 minutes. And ifbyou plannrd your dive correctly, you will have enough air to reach your exit.
@@DIVETALK Swift transmitters will leak on certain failures as well-I've had two such failures. Have a look at the little black rubber OP plug on the bottom of your Swift. When that fails they leak. Also, some SPG failures leak some don't. I've had an SPG failure where it just read off by 20 bar.
I use both. Funny about the Swift never failing. A buddy of mine bought one when they first came out. They have a vent port that apparently is prone to clogging and blowing out when you pressurize them. It is a little round rubber plug looking thing. Sounds like an electrical crack when it happens. They replaced it free of charge, but he had a backup SPG he could keep using on our trip.
Not even a diver but I loved this. I love learning about this stuff though. Oh, and PLEASE do more games for Woody!! Y'all make my day better when you post. Keep up the great work!
I prefer an SPG, with a transmitter you have to worry yet about another battery for something vital as your air pressure. It is fragile and easy to lose. I am a recreational diver who likes to rely on electronics as less as possible. I use a computer but also a mechanical automatic diver's watch and even consult my decompression table. Most new divers don't even know how to use a decompression table anymore so if their computer fails they cannot dive, but I do!
I feel like it's also important to consider the configuration and diving conditions. I mainly dive OC backmount and water temp is in the 40F range most of the time. I would feel a little uncomfortable solely relying on a battery-driven transmitter in those conditions. So, I use a transmitter and an SPG. I just get a bit anxious whenever I put something with a battery in the ice cold water :) same goes for my computer, I carry a backup bottom timer, which would allow me to deco-on-the-fly my way out of a dive. With all this said, I've never had any issues with my transmitter, so it might all just be in my head!
I use both. This past summer in St. Croix my Teric stopped communicating to my transmitters. I later tested the transmitters with my Perdix and they worked. It turned out it was the wifi antenna in my Teric that was faulty. Shearwater was great and had it fixed in less than two weeks!
I have both, but I really only rely on my AI, and plan to end the dive if something goes wrong with the transmitter or my computer even though I do have a console with depth, spg, and compass.
Brass and glass will always last. This was the saying back in the day. AI relies on batteries for the transmitter and receiver, so potentially one of the batteries could die.
I prefer an SPG, with a transmitter you have to worry yet about another battery for something vital as your air pressure. It is fragile and easy to lose. I am a recreational diver who likes to rely on electronics as less as possible. I use a computer but also a mechanical automatic diver's watch and even consult my decompression table. Most new divers don't even know how to use a decompression table anymore so if their computer fails they cannot dive, but I do!
Most of the Tech divers I did recreation had watch computers. I had a Suunto D5 air integration w a backup SPG. Now I have Suunto cobra which replaces my simple SPG
I am an AOWD, I don't dive that much, mostly for pleasure. I caught myself thinking that I was constantly looking at the SPG, every 2 minutes, it distracts from contemplating the underwater world, prevents me from enjoying the beauty. Integration with air allows you to not only control the supply of the air mixture, but also make controlled warning points when its level is below normal. The decompressometer will notify you or your buddy with sound, vibration. In addition, it records statistics. This will be a great assistant in diving, but only as an addition to the SPG. I am ashamed to admit. I had a sad experience in one of the dives. My buddy and I spoke different languages. We communicated poorly in English. For some reason, we did not check each other's equipment, as required by PADI rules. This is the first mistake, that is, there was no communication as a buddy with a buddy from the beginning. In the Maldives, we dived at Manta Point. Our group of 12 people. We dove and froze when the mantas arrived. They arrived. They swam beautifully and measuredly, creating a crazy beauty of a completely different world, which is mesmerizing. I noticed periodic movements next to me, my partner was next to me. For some reason, I did not pay attention to this. Then I noticed it again. He was looking at his SPG. I looked at his readings, there were 50 bars. Something clicked in my head, but I did not pay attention to it, a thought flashed: “Why is he not surfacing? Why is he not telling me that it is time for him to surface? So this is how it should be! He is in control of the situation.” The whole group continued to enjoy the flight of the mantas, the partner was already looking at the SPG more often. 40 bars. I wanted to call the instructor, but did not do this until the instructor himself did not notice. The instructor immediately took control into his own hands, grabbed my partner and me, put my octopus in my hands. And the three of us began the control ascent. The instructor held my buddy's hand tightly, looking at my buddy's dive computer and monitoring me. At the safety stop, I caught my breath earlier and thought: "Well, since the instructor is next to my buddy, I'll go to the surface..." The instructor grabbed me by the buoyancy compensator and pulled me back. When my buddy caught his breath at the safety stop, we surfaced together. After everything calmed down, I was ashamed to look both the instructor and my buddy in the eyes. Years have passed, and I still constantly replay this dive in my head, constantly worrying in my soul how wrong I was, how many mistakes I made. But at the same time, I thought: "If my buddy had a decompression gauge with air integration, it would have beeped at the set mark. Let's say at 70 bar. And saved two stupid people from the human factor. So I am all for modern technology. But while the technology is new, it is better to combine it with SPG
After years of doing both on OC rec diving and no issues with the transmitters with my Suunto EON steel, I made the switch to only AI when I went CCR, however at that point I had switched to the Shearwater swift transmitters and had no issues until one day they both died in different ways when I was luckily doing my unit build check list. One started leaking from the over pressure port, the other just stopped transmitting :/ but shearwater support was great and mailed me replacement transmitters right away. So bit of mixed feelings about relying solely on transmitters without at least bringing backup SPGs/transmitters so i don't have to lose out on a weekend of diving.
They are just two tools to solve the same problem. People assume that it's a question of safety vs. comfort. But i think that's missing the point. Both can range from extremely reliable to safety hazards. It all depends on the quality of the product, how well it's maintained and how much punishment it has to endure. You can use either one and have redundancies of either one.. as long as it's a quality product that is tested to safety standards you trust and you maintain and protect that equipment.. it's all good, no matter what you choose.
I always believe in the use of a backup. I do believe that the systems that are out there are good but any mechanical piece of equipment can and will fail. This reasoning is that you already have a an SPG why remove it.
Both: AI because I found some used ones cheap. Button SPG, but not as a "backup." The SPG makes it easier to test tank-pressure without my computer. I'm a huge fan of redundancy, however, the AI fail so rarely if you replace the batteries maybe once per year, that in the 0.1% of dives it might happen, you can end the dive early and safely.
I do both. I have a Suunto Viper Novo with a transmitter and my Aqua Lung SPG that came as a package deal with my regulators, octo, i300c and BCD. So in reality 2 dive computers, one transmitter and 1 SPG.
Super interesting to hear such a wild difference between the different pros on their setups, though it sounded like a lot of them weren't hard and fast set. On an unrelated note, any chance we can get Gus to walk us through the Dive Talk setup for streaming and recording 🤔. Wanna see the setup!
Don't have enough Transmitters to put one on every first stage I have on a dive. But have them on rebreather cylinders, and move them to other first stages for open circuit diving. I never use backup spg's. I have had many failures with spg's and their spools, and almost none with ai's.
The nature of all mechanical pressure gauges is they are most accurate in the middle of the scale and least accurate at the ends of the scale. Even when perfectly calibrated in the mid-range, in our experience at the centre, all mechanical SCUBA SPGs have poor accuracy at the very low end of the scale; possibly indicating significantly more (or less) breathing gas than what is really in the tank - and that's OK! That is why divemasters are often heard to say "Be back on the boat with 500 psi." Just to be clear, this is not a reflection on the quality of the gauge but rather a limitation of the mechanical bourdon tube technology at the very low end of the gauge range. Air integration is definitely more accurate and they do not just simply "fail" by themselves (there are alerts for that anyway)... you NEED to do the checks and ensure the computer and emitters are good on battery.
I have a Perdix AI with a swift transmitter and I'm on my second swift. My first one would randomly lose signal and I'd have to raise my wrist back towards the transmitter to reconnect. Interestingly, it would only happen on the ascent. 🤔 To Shearwater's credit, they promptly sent me a knew one before I could even ship my old one back. Worked great until this past weekend and this time it took much longer to reconnect. I'll be contacting them next week. To the point made about them breaking off the 1st stage, I have mine on a 6" hose to avoid that potential problem and a HP quick disconnect so that I can store it in a case when not in use. Everyone that I know, and myself, all have a backup SPG. Except for one friend, whose transmitter battery died and was unable to dive with us. She didn't realize it until we were gearing up and didn't have a spare. I can dive comfortably without a computer, but obviously not without a pressure gauge. J valves are long gone. 😅
Page 4, Shearwater Teric manual, "This computer will fail. It is not whether it will fail but when..." My wife and I both have AI and SPG. AI is super convenient, but after 24 years of diving it's hard to break the habit of checking the SPG, even when the numbers are right there on the computer! It's not the cool, minimalist thing, but we also have a backup depth gauge as well...downsized to a newer compact console a few years ago instead of the 2" gauges but still brass and glass...
Since I dive with more than 1 computer - all Air Integrated - my fear is more about the transmitter failing than the actual computer, but like I said before, the transmitter fails and you just end your dive.
I used to use a Suunto D9, and I couldn't trust the AI on it, so had the backup SPG. Now I have the Perdix AI (MH8A transmitters, not Swift) , and it's been rock solid, but I still have a backup SPG that I rarely look at. The analog SPG is still best for pre-dive verification of air being turned on properly.
when i first got the transmitter, i would look at SPG to "verify" my computer, now i almost never look at the spg, but i still keep it; two is one and all...
I use both a transmitter and an spg. I may remove the spg soon, though. I think about it before every dive tbh, but I always decide to keep the spg. Good topic.
Nope.. rely on the gear you have. Plan on how to react if it fails. It also helps if you regularly replace the battery. The transmitters are really simple in design which leads to minimal possibility of failure. You should also be comfortable with knowing your consumption rate (kinda like the old fuel gauges in cars that didn’t work… you knew you could get 300 miles to a tank) for rough estimation if the transmitter fails
Hosed Air Integration here (Oceanic PP3). Upon a failure, "Dive's Over". I pack a second Reg w/ SPG-DG for travel. I believe a back-up computer is better than a back-up SPG given my set-up.
obviously air integration is a good thing. it streamlines your equipment checking, you can get all the necessary info on your dive computer. as soon as I save some extra money for some upgrades, I'd prolly buy an air integrated setup. but use SPG as backup. like, there's tons of ways that either one can fail so you could argue that adding more means more things can break. but it's the same reasoning as to why every diver is supposed to have an octo, redundancy and safety is kept in mind for all aspects of diving, so why not for this as well? In my diving club I often see people putting their octo and SPG on a separate first stage on a second valve, while having their air integration and primary on the other valve. basically: full redundancy for everything they can possibly set up in a redundant way. Which makes complete sense to me.
I use both. On my double 12, the transmitter is on the right bottle and the SPG is on the left. I like the redundancy. For normal diving I only use the transmitter but if it should fail I still have the normal SPG. My stage tanks only have SPG.
I use two AI Shearwater Teric and TERN TX with two Swift. The main reason is because I have to travel to dive, and one less hose is better for me. I just traded out my Oceanic Pro Plus X for the Tern TX.
Dive SPG, am a computer scientist and definitly love technology but if I can avoid one more point of failure that would be my choice. BTW would like to trace my air consumption and stuff like that with air integration but dont like the idea of one more device that can fail easier, and thats a fact when we talk about complexity of device and reliability.
Both,as I added a transmitter after I had the SPG. Also had a transmitter fail during a dive and lost integration, so the backup was useful v end the dive.
I have a Shearwater Perdix AI and associated Swift transmitter. I have dove AI for a long time, I had an Oceanic computer AI before my Shearwater. I just recently added a TINY SPG, ONLY BECAUSE: I am afraid of when the battery either in the computer or transmitter dies, mid dive and then I have no idea how much air I have left with just the computer. Just a little back up safety measure I put in place for myself for peace of mind.
I just use air integration, no backup spgs though I do have spare spgs in the save-a-dive kit. If a transmitter fails during the dive, which they haven't yet, I would just turn the dive.
The alternative to SPG is a 2nd AI Computer. I DO use Perdix AI and a SPG/Depth Gauge console but looking at 2nd Perdix 2 as I already have 2 transmitters for sidemount!
First of all I love the Shearwater transmitters, and have one on all of my regs. For my backmount setup I'm transmitter only, but for sidemount/tec I run both. I have to disagree with Woody on the reliability from Shearwater though... I've had 3 Swift transmitters blow their OPV on dives. 2 have been on deco bottles that were pressurized and off, they blew during the dive which flooded the units and sealed them off from leaking. It was only because I had a backup SPG that allowed me to safely complete the dive.
Great video. I asked this same question on a FB cave group and was ripped apart for just asking the question! Folks are very opinionated on this subject.
I dive with a shear water perdix 2. I use a shearwater transmitter on a short hose. I also carry a backup SPG. On a few occassions while diving my transmitter has lost connection to my computer and I have had to move to my back up SPG. In the shearwater manual it states you shouldn't be diving with only air integration and should have an SPG as backup. While I'm no expert in diving only having been in the sport for just over a year; to me it makes logical sense to always carry redundancy. I'm surpised a few of the cave divers mentioned don't, considering their training would most likely focus on building redundancy. You carry 3 maybe more torches so why wouldn't you carry 2 methods of monitoring the amount of gas in your cylinders.
Hey dive talk guys, I met Medhi at Orange Grove Sink in FL last summer some time. Really a friendly and knowledgeable guy. I need to give him a call and get my diving skills progressing again. Hopefully it's not frowned upon to give a plug to someone but I know he and his colleague ran Tech Monsters in Tallahassee, FL. If you have any feedback I'd love to hear it.
I use the AI on my O2 & dil on my rebreathers, but I use SPG on bailout tanks in cave. For OW diving I use AI on mine & my girlfriend’s so I can keep an eye on her gas too.
I've been AI with backup SPG on OC for a while (on backmounted twins, AI on one 1st stage, SPG on the other. Currently SPGs on a CCR. I'm curious, assuming you're on Shearwaters, what info have you got it configured to show, as well as your o2 and dil levels?
I dive doubles, so I have air integration on one first stage and a SPG on the other. In case I ever have to close one valve I still know how much gas I have left.
AI or SPG depending on the tank. Primaries are AI, deco/stage SPG (money only reason). Having both on the same tank doesn't provide redundancy unless it is just an electronic failure, if an o-ring or hose goes you no longer have a closed system so neither will read accurately. You thumb the dive and go home. Or, as Woody said, if you are Edd you know how much you planned for and enjoy the remainder of the dive... LOL.
I have no idea what any of those phrases mean (in context anyway), but this was still a fun time. Have you guys gone over AI vs SPG before? If not, please do!
SPG = Submersible Pressure Gauge, it an analog dial gauge connected via a hose that tells you the pressure in your cylinder. AI = Air Integration, it is a wireless pressure transmitter that communicates with your dive computer and displays your cylinder pressure on the computer screen.
AI is a nice gadget but the SPG is essential. I use the Perdix AI transmitter on my Rec setup (and an SPG) but not on my twins. I am a wreck diver and the protrusion of the transmitter is one more point of entanglement. I guess that is less of a risk with rebreathers. AI is also too expensive to have on my stages.
@@DIVETALK OK. I’ll bite 😊. To be clear I am no Luddite, in fact I am an avid gadgets guy and I love technology (that’s why I bought the Perdix AI in the first place). When I say essential, I mean it’s the base line, the reference. You need a way to see the remaining air. An SPG is an easy reliable instrument and I try to follow the KISS rule (The last S is for me 😀). My Perdix AI (or any other AI) as I see it, for my tec dives and setup and not considering cost, has 2 Pros and 2 Cons. Pros: Automatic SAC calculations, Auto logging of air. Cons: Requires power, Risk of entanglement. If you spend the money you could add to the Pros that you can have all bottles monitored by one computer but also add to the Cons the (big for me) risk of messing up due to complexity of making sure you monitor the right bottle. So given that I will always have an SPG, adding the AI just adds one more point of failure on my 1st stage and an extra point for entanglement. As i said if i was diving rebreathers it could be a diffrent issue
I use redundant shearwater transmitters with redundant shearwater computers - and I often get lectured by other divers using a single SPG (no redundancy). My transmitters have never failed me and I don’t see the scenario where they would… maybe an EMP?
I'm an SPG guy. Used to have a suunto transmitter, but had endless problems getting it to connect. Might upgrade to Shearwater AI in a couple of years, but for now happy to stay 'old school' 😅
As I see it depends on type of diving, open water and confined. I don't do confined or envision ever wanting to. Penetration and/or depth are not my thing and luckily where I live has great open ocean. AI w/o back up. I suspect not being (been diving) from the old school 'era' found it easier to trust the newer technology. Plus I like the streamlined configuration.
I'm not married to either AI or SPGs; it's a "right tool for the job" thing for me. The decision is based on the hazards expected on a dive, but for a typical dive I use AI on back-mounted setups and have never had an issue. When diving side mount, I have just used SPGs, and I have not had an SPG or SPG hose fail (or transmitter for that matter). If the dive poses elevated risks, then the method of monitoring gas pressure may be tailored to mitigate risk, whether it be SPGs or both. Stage/safety tanks are always SPG so that anyone can monitor gas pressure. Why debate this? It's silly. Have a conversation with your instructors, dive shop, and buddies to get the relevant information regarding the pros and cons of using either or both, and choose what you are most comfortable with. Ultimately, you are the one that has to depend on the equipment for your safety and if having a hose fail makes you nervous, then go AI and enjoy the dive. If losing a transmitter makes you nervous, then go brass & glass and enjoy the dive. If you want both, then go for it! You have to have full trust in your equipment to truly relax and enjoy your diving activities.
I use AI for my back gas, I have redundant transmitters on my doubles with redundant computers. I use button SPGs on my stage bottles so they can be handed off if needed.
Preference and application. If your is treated harshly or there is the risk of someone using it to lift your gear/tank then spg. If i did cave diving which i don't I would use both👌
I would love to know once and for all the true failure rate of mechanical Spg vs AI. I have seen multiple spg’s blow but never a transmitter in 25 years of diving. As for breaking them off, this is why we put them on a hose like you do an Spg
This summer, thanks to Vas Proud (@DiverbyDesign) and Steve Martin (@sidemountscubadiving), I had an opportunity to test transmitters, and I really appreciate the new opportunities and advantages of integration. Let’s start with the advantages: - you can easily monitor pressure, it’s fast and convenient. No need to change trim, unclip anything, and so on, much less task loading. - your computer can track pressure and possibly warn you about low pressure, a sudden drop of pressure (possible leak) - so some additional safety, - easy to read the pressure on your computer, low/no light conditions, and low vis will not affect the reading as much as when you use classic SPG, - when diving sidemount computer can suggest you have to switch tanks, - to me very important advantage is related to the post-dive analysis of the dive profile - you can track your SAC and factors which affect it - so next dive planning is easier. Possibly you can use air consumption as a marker of stress and general fitness. - no additional hoses means fewer failure points and less drag during the dive. Equipment can be more streamlined. - for rec dive you can have an eye on your partner - additional safety for both divers. Of course, there are some disadvantages: - for sure electronics are not as reliable as a mechanical gauge, but the probability of failure is small enough, - current sensors are a little bulky and one needs to be more careful handling them, definitely, mechanical SGPs are more resistant to harsh handling, I think in the future sensors will be smaller, thus more resistant to accidental damage, - price - they are simply way too expensive. Rec diver typically needs only one transmitter, so not a big deal, but sidemount diver needs at least two, rec diver can easily have four - it can hurt your wallet. I think the price is the only real bummer. A lot of people mention failures and redundancy. In my opinion, mixing transmitters and classic SGPs will not add any benefits. It only introduces more failure points and more bulky equipment. If anything fails you have to call the dive. Period. I found an additional advantage of a transmitter in such a situation - your computer can alarm you and keep the last reading. So you have an impression about tank pressure which is pretty current, whereas with SPG you know the pressure from when you last read it, which can be 5-10 min. old. A lot of people pointed out that the battery is an issue, but batteries are cheap, in case of any doubt one can simply replace the battery before the dive - problem solved. If the transmitter fails solution is as simple as just replacing it with a spare one (additional expenses) or just replacing it with a classic SPG. SPGs are available everywhere, I can’t imagine a diving center, which doesn’t have an SPG for replacement. The whole process takes minutes, so it is not a big deal.
My best argument, which I have actually done before in a smaller scale. Hook up 10 spg to a single tank, then hook up 10 transmitters to a single tank. The spg will all give different pressures +-20%, sometimes more 😳 Transmitters will give the same pressure within a few digits. “Redundancy guys”, do you have a backup spg for your spg? Lol I know I don’t. Especially when every 10 dives you see a hp hose or the spool leak from an spg.
![Top 10 Best Dive Computers in 2024 | Tested while Diving [Side-by-side] #scuba #divecomputer](/img/1.gif)
Definitely like having air integration. I run a Mares Icon, and the amount of great data that is captured by it is great. SAC rates, Start and End tank pressure logging. It's amazing. That said, I still have a backup SPG. On another note, Tech Clark mentions not using them because they get damaged easily. Most of the people I dive with, and myself included, always put the transmitter on a short 6 inch HP hose so that it can flex and move should it ever take a hit.
I do use à 6in hose to to my Ai
I moved over to GARMIN Descent MK2i air integration and LOVE it not just for the convenience but also for monitoring my kid’s air and all of the data that comes with it that you don’t get out of an SPG.
Air integration is perfect for convenience and monitoring other divers and I love that! Having said this, we as divers love to preach redundancy and therefore I still believe an SPG is to air integration as an Octo is to a regulator set. I have to add this as well, only having an SPG is probably hypocritical in my previous statement, however I suppose you could always just use the Edd Sorenson method.
Totally agree. They teach redundancy in the military and gov. I don't want to be caught with a broken computer. It only takes one time to send you to the grave. Air integrated is awesome but it's never going to be the only thing I have.I love these guys but I can't help but feel this may give people a green light for complacency. Gear is reliable until that one time and then the narrative changes just like with anything else. Keep up the good work, I'm in the process of watching from day 1.
@@ToTheStarsSBBut a broken computer or transmitter isn't an emergency. It doesn't reduce the amount of gas I have. I'm a cave diver and I check how much gas I have regularly. If a computer fails that's a gear malfunction and I call the dive, same as a broken light or mask strap. I've done my gas planning so I know I can make it out with the gas I had left even when I can't see it.
On the other hand, I've had a broken SPG hose connection that was leaking gas. Meaning I either have to close the valve (in backmount) or feather it (in sidemount) to preserve that gas. I much prefer the first situation.
What is the edd Sorenson method?
@@Yggdrasil42 I agree. Air integration (without the HP short extension hose) has less o-ring potential leak points, one static o-ring and no dynamic o-rings for transmitter. I'm not concerned about not having flexible HP hose if the HP port is oriented on my first stage such that my transmitter is protected under my arm in Sidemount or pointed down and inward tucked in towards tanks for back mount.
In my experience working around industrial machines with analog gauges and electronic pressure transducers, like what's used in air integrated transmitters, I've developed a few views on accuracy advantages for pressure transducers. In short I prefer the failure modes in digital gauges over analog gauges. My opinion is that digital gauges usually tell you I don't know the pressure when they fail, and analog gauges will lie to you and tell you a false pressure when they fail (and that false pressure is generally more pressure than you actually have as the gauge ages from my experience). Over years of use I've seen analog gauges lose accuracy and read falsely high from stretching bourdon tubes or springs. If over pressurized briefly, I've seen analog gauges always read high there after. Over the sensor range and sensor's life I've seen pressure transducers to be more accurate when new and old (industrial versions but same technology as SCUBA SPGs and transmitters). Final thought, in my factory experience, we get more consistent daily reports on machine checks from digital pressure transducer sensor values from operators since the digital display removes variables like gauge parallax, different operators reading value at left, center, or right of needle, people miscounting the gauge tick marks between numbered main ticks, etc.
@@Yggdrasil42 A broken computer/transmitter would then make it so you can't view the O2 percentage in your loop and therefore your loop may get in theory too much or too little oxygen, depending on your depth and how o2 gets added. I suppose you are supposed to feel how much o2 is in the air you are breathing and adjust based off of that. But if you're on open circuit then I could see why a broken computer/transmitter wouldn't necessarily constitute an emergency for the reasons you shared, as long as the dive is shallow enough or you have a buddy with you. Still, you would want to know your depth at any given moment or at least have memorized the locations for where stops are supposed to take place and for how long. Then you have to operate by an approximate sense of time, where leaving or overextending a deep stop could be hazardous. I'm actually not following your logic on why it would be safe to have all computers in the cave shut down at once at the deepest part of the dive. Certainly if you brought a stop watch with you, or depth gauge with you, you are doing much better, but I guess without all of that is still fine as long as you are diving a very safe profile maybe one you've done many times before and so you know where the stops are and for how long and all that. And of course being with a buddy whose computer isn't broken would also be fine since you can follow their navigation. So in that case losing your buddy would constitute an emergency, or not? But still the computers are redundant systems so overall if you are diving with a buddy or group then somebody's computer will be working almost surely - though their stops would be affected by their specific dive profile, not yours, so it still wouldn't really be as safe, though still not necessarily an emergency.
Hello Gus and Woody, this video is very nice.. For me, the integration of gas is very reliable, technology has advanced so much that a modern transmitter is already safe as spg, however, at first it might give you a bit of nerves knowing that you do not have a mechanical instrument. I have a Scubapro G2 computer and its transmitter and in 700 dives it has never failed.
Thanks for your comment! I've bought a G2 w/ transmitter from my local dive shop on clearance and haven't decided yet if I want to remove my SPG or keep both. I think doing a few local lake dives or pool dives with both may help me become familiar with its behavior first.
Hello Steve, I tell you, my G2 is wonderful and coincidentally today, Sunday, December 3, my transmitter's battery ran out, after having made 500 dives. He is happy with my computer. Now I'm going to change the battery. Happy bubbles.
Definitely I use both… I relied on the air integration transmitter but have an SPG in all 3 of my setting!! Never had a failure but keep them clean and well maintained!! I religiously change all my o-rings once a year.. regardless!!
I recently switched to full air integration and I love it. It certainly makes my set up streamlined and that is a plus for me. I use two AI computers (primary/back up) and neither has failed during a dive. Technology of the transmitter has come a long way and will only improve over time.
I use two AI as well, and two Swift transmitters.
I use both for OC and CCR. I like having the SPG as a backup and the AI for my log information.
I use both, but the SPG is my pressure indication, and the AI is the backup. Realistically, I use the SPG at all times, and may add the AI for datalogging in order to track my SAC / RMV, but it is always the secondary device. On open circuit doubles, using both also provides a pressure indication on each side in the event that you have to isolate.
I use both - very glad of that because I had what I thought was a transmitter battery failure, and it turned out it was actually my Teric's antenna breaking. I would have lost 6-7 dives if I didn't have a backup SPG on that trip.
I always keep an SPG in my gear bag for this reason!
I use Swift transmitters on both SM tanks as well as o2. Love the convenience. I will say that they transmitters absolutely DO FAIL, I have personally had 2 Swifts fail, and I have witnessed a friend's fail first hand as well. But as always Shearwater's customer service was second to none. Love Shearwater!! I do use button SPGs on my SM tanks but not as a backup but as a convenience tool. I use several difference sets of tanks and I can't always remember how much gas is left in a set from previous session, so with the buttons I can quickly verify I'm on a fully filled set without having to turn on computer, sync, etc (yes I could just use a standalone gauge, but I just don't). I don't need a backup SPG for my way of diving where I always know roughly how much gas I have and if I do have a failure on a more critical dive, then it's just time to call it and go home.
Just the topic I’ve been thinking over myself recently. Glad to hear your informed thoughts.
I started out SPG only, so it’s built into my philosophy, gradually mixing in AI, now use both but SPG only as a safety backup and primarily use AI computer.
I use both Air integration and SPG when I dive jacket/backplate and wing, when I dive sidemount I only use SPG. The reason I personal use both when diving a jacket/backplate and wing is I can always confirm my pressure and it also shows to my students when I teach open water that I look at my SPG as well.
Why do you eliminate it for side mount?
The reason why I eliminated the air integration for sidemount is that I had my spgs to where I can look at them. Also I wanted to reduce failure points when I am doing deep dives.
Team both here - I am all about redundancy. Plus AI is great on sidemount because I don’t need to change my trim to see what my pressure is and when to switch tanks, just look at my wrists. And in the unlikely event both my Perdix fail…or if I run into my Fundies instructor Beto Nava while diving I can lol at the SPG (yes, it’s happened).
✌🏼🤗🤣😂
After 45 years I’ve never used Air integration but I’d love to try one but I’d always have a SPG as back up. I’ve heard story’s of SPGs blowing up when air is turned on or on pre dive check the needle jumping around indicating a SPG problem but I’ve never seen either myself. So I’d always use a SPG 110%.
Glad you said this! Exactly what was going through my mind...24 years and I've never seen an explosive SPG failure. My training is to be sure to aim the SPG face away when you turn on the air in case of a failure, but never seen that happen ever...not saying it couldn't, and I do turn it away towards the ground...but I also hold the LP inflator on when I open the tank valve too...
As a new diver, I'm surprised divers aren't using both, just from the perspective conservativeness. If only AI, and AI fails - then dive over; If only SPG and SPG fails - then dive over. If AI and SPG, and one fails - then dive *may* be over.
Great point that there's no correct way! Healthy perspectives and GREAT VIDEO!
I think the biggest difference for me is:
a. Air Integration is SUPER RELIABLE...like fin straps. Nobody dives with an extra fin just in case a strap breaks...could it happen? Yeah, but the chances of it happening to a good pair of fins is so remote that no one dives with extra fins. That's how I see Air Integration, the chance of it failing is so remote that if or when they do, I just end the dive.
b. If a transmitter runs out of battery for example (it shouldn't because battery lasts for most people around 2 years and it should be changed every year to make sure it never goes low), nothing happens, your air is still in the tank, you just can't see how much you have left but if you were diving thirds you should be able to ascend at a normal speed and do your stop and everything, literally zero issues (other than ending the dive early). But when an SPG fails, well, you have an air leak, the last one I used failed on a boat while we were still at the dock waiting to leave, no foul play or dropping the tank or damage of anyway, it just imploded all of the sudden. Had to rush and close the tank. Luckily the captain of the boat had a backup and I could do the dives that day.
So I don't see a need for SPGs.
@@DIVETALK Thank you very much for the detailed response! As a new diver, this will assist me greatly!
I just bought the Garmin AI, and have been wondering deeply about this topic.
Another Q: I've been advised to buy a 6' high pressure hose to attach the AI to. I think I will also need a Metric Allen Wrench. What are you opinions here?
Great content as always, and thanks again!
I've only just installed the Shearwater transmitter to pair with the Teric and have only done 3 or 4 dives with it. For now I am keeping the SPG until I feel confident that the transmitter works flawlessly every time. Good to hear other people's praise about modern transmitters though, that gives me a lot more confidence. I expect the SPG will be heading the way of the dinos soon enough.
I use both. Shearwater Teric + Swift + Apeks Tech SPG. On the last dive trip of the season, couple of weeks ago, my Swift stopped working, transmitting unreliable pressure (random from 0 to 344 bars). I switched to SPG and completed my dives. Shearwater confirmed I had a failure and they were happy to replace it for me. But without my SPG, I would be...
I wish this was pinned!!! Humans can't build gear that doesn't fail and especially electronics!
Love the air integration, however, if you are on a dive trip, either assemble your gear yourself or tell the guy who assembles your gear NEVER to use that transmitter as a handle to lift the entire BCD + tank. I've seen 2 people's transmitters get broken on my last dive trip because of this.
I just got my first Swift. Excited to use AI and SPG, but not opposed to either or both.
This was great to hear how the different pros do it! Learning curve! I would love to visit DEMA and ask millions of questions and eyeball all the awesome stuff XD
I've always been SPG only (not the cluster type); never really trusted those transmitters much, but when I /finally/ make the switch from SCRs to CCRs then I'll probably go integrated and still have an SPG for backup.
I'm SPG only, for two reasons. First, they've been incredibly cheap and reliable (10-20% accuracy is plenty, since on a no-deco plan you really just care about what fraction of your tank you have left). Second, I have a few different computers and a few different regulators & Rebreathers which means my gear configuration is not constant and trying to deal with pairing the right things with the right computer is extra hassle/task loading that I don't need. It's enough to have to verify the mix on the tank with the computers.
I also know salt water and electronics don't mix, so I try to have less of that, though it's not a deciding factor.
I prefer an SPG, with a transmitter you have to worry yet about another battery for something vital as your air pressure. It is fragile and easy to lose. I am a recreational diver who likes to rely on electronics as less as possible. I use a computer but also a mechanical automatic diver's watch and even consult my decompression table. Most new divers don't even know how to use a decompression table anymore so if their computer fails they cannot dive, but I do!
I’d love to to see you guys do more of this “game show” theme .. maybe see if you guys can stump each other with some questions .. I learn something new in every one of your videos
I was diving doubles and I actually had the swift flood on me during a decent. I switched to my spg and was able to continue the dive. I still use ai on my liberty. Also I currently have 4 ai and only one has had a issue, which was quickly fixed by shearwater. Still using and loving their products. Just put it out there.
Love AI and love my Shearwater. But all it took was for my transmitter battery to die on a dive. I will always dive with a backup SPG. Redundancy is a must.
I prefer an SPG, with a transmitter you have to worry yet about another battery for something vital as your air pressure. It is fragile and easy to lose. I am a recreational diver who likes to rely on electronics as less as possible. I use a computer but also a mechanical automatic diver's watch and even consult my decompression table. Most new divers don't even know how to use a decompression table anymore so if their computer fails they cannot dive, but I do!
I thought we should use both. We take backup masks, backup cylinders for a reason. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. When the air integration fails (not IF but WHEN), having a backup will be helpful :)
But with this statement if a diver don't have air integration should the diver then dive with 2 spgs ?🤔
I prefer an SPG, with a transmitter you have to worry yet about another battery for something vital as your air pressure. It is fragile and easy to lose. I am a recreational diver who likes to rely on electronics as less as possible. I use a computer but also a mechanical automatic diver's watch and even consult my decompression table. Most new divers don't even know how to use a decompression table anymore so if their computer fails they cannot dive, but I do!
I use both, the reason being is that I use a Suunto Eon computer and cannot check the battery status of the transmitter (pod) so in case of battery failure I don’t have to cancel the dive. Having said that, I have no connectivity issues whatsoever with that set up.
I used tobuse a splitter with myvside mount so I had AI and gauges. That just created more failure points so now I just do AI.
I read an article that really made great points. In the end, any failure, you thumb the dive. If a computer or transmitter fails, you should know how much air you had within 5 minutes. And ifbyou plannrd your dive correctly, you will have enough air to reach your exit.
Plus when a transmitter fails? You just don’t get the number on the computer. When an SPG fail you have a leak!
@@DIVETALK Swift transmitters will leak on certain failures as well-I've had two such failures. Have a look at the little black rubber OP plug on the bottom of your Swift. When that fails they leak. Also, some SPG failures leak some don't. I've had an SPG failure where it just read off by 20 bar.
I use both. Funny about the Swift never failing. A buddy of mine bought one when they first came out. They have a vent port that apparently is prone to clogging and blowing out when you pressurize them. It is a little round rubber plug looking thing. Sounds like an electrical crack when it happens. They replaced it free of charge, but he had a backup SPG he could keep using on our trip.
AI + SPG and keep a Spare SPG in my bag. If the transmitter breaks I have the SPG. If the SPG breaks, I have another.
Not even a diver but I loved this. I love learning about this stuff though. Oh, and PLEASE do more games for Woody!! Y'all make my day better when you post. Keep up the great work!
I'm diving SPG only. For me both is fine I'm just used to the SPG and its a little cheaper to carry replacements to more remote dive sides :)
I prefer an SPG, with a transmitter you have to worry yet about another battery for something vital as your air pressure. It is fragile and easy to lose. I am a recreational diver who likes to rely on electronics as less as possible. I use a computer but also a mechanical automatic diver's watch and even consult my decompression table. Most new divers don't even know how to use a decompression table anymore so if their computer fails they cannot dive, but I do!
I feel like it's also important to consider the configuration and diving conditions. I mainly dive OC backmount and water temp is in the 40F range most of the time. I would feel a little uncomfortable solely relying on a battery-driven transmitter in those conditions. So, I use a transmitter and an SPG. I just get a bit anxious whenever I put something with a battery in the ice cold water :) same goes for my computer, I carry a backup bottom timer, which would allow me to deco-on-the-fly my way out of a dive. With all this said, I've never had any issues with my transmitter, so it might all just be in my head!
In backmount doubles both here. Garmin transmitter on my long hose (right) first stage, SPG clipped to waist D off my left tank.
seems like the best answer to me, esp for tech & overhead. If you had to shut down a post or isolate you could still see the gas you had left.
Air integrated but connected by hose + backup spg. Will upgrade to shearwater with transmitter some day and keep the spg as backup.
What a fun video! I'm with Mehdi, SPG due to lack of funds!
I use both. This past summer in St. Croix my Teric stopped communicating to my transmitters. I later tested the transmitters with my Perdix and they worked. It turned out it was the wifi antenna in my Teric that was faulty. Shearwater was great and had it fixed in less than two weeks!
I have both, but I really only rely on my AI, and plan to end the dive if something goes wrong with the transmitter or my computer even though I do have a console with depth, spg, and compass.
Brass and glass will always last. This was the saying back in the day.
AI relies on batteries for the transmitter and receiver, so potentially one of the batteries could die.
I prefer an SPG, with a transmitter you have to worry yet about another battery for something vital as your air pressure. It is fragile and easy to lose. I am a recreational diver who likes to rely on electronics as less as possible. I use a computer but also a mechanical automatic diver's watch and even consult my decompression table. Most new divers don't even know how to use a decompression table anymore so if their computer fails they cannot dive, but I do!
Most of the Tech divers I did recreation had watch computers. I had a Suunto D5 air integration w a backup SPG. Now I have Suunto cobra which replaces my simple SPG
I am an AOWD, I don't dive that much, mostly for pleasure. I caught myself thinking that I was constantly looking at the SPG, every 2 minutes, it distracts from contemplating the underwater world, prevents me from enjoying the beauty. Integration with air allows you to not only control the supply of the air mixture, but also make controlled warning points when its level is below normal. The decompressometer will notify you or your buddy with sound, vibration. In addition, it records statistics. This will be a great assistant in diving, but only as an addition to the SPG.
I am ashamed to admit. I had a sad experience in one of the dives. My buddy and I spoke different languages.
We communicated poorly in English. For some reason, we did not check each other's equipment, as required by PADI rules. This is the first mistake, that is, there was no communication as a buddy with a buddy from the beginning.
In the Maldives, we dived at Manta Point. Our group of 12 people. We dove and froze when the mantas arrived.
They arrived. They swam beautifully and measuredly, creating a crazy beauty of a completely different world, which is mesmerizing.
I noticed periodic movements next to me, my partner was next to me. For some reason, I did not pay attention to this. Then I noticed it again. He was looking at his SPG. I looked at his readings, there were 50 bars. Something clicked in my head, but I did not pay attention to it, a thought flashed: “Why is he not surfacing? Why is he not telling me that it is time for him to surface? So this is how it should be! He is in control of the situation.”
The whole group continued to enjoy the flight of the mantas, the partner was already looking at the SPG more often. 40 bars. I wanted to call the instructor, but did not do this until the instructor himself did not notice. The instructor immediately took control into his own hands, grabbed my partner and me, put my octopus in my hands. And the three of us began the control ascent. The instructor held my buddy's hand tightly, looking at my buddy's dive computer and monitoring me.
At the safety stop, I caught my breath earlier and thought: "Well, since the instructor is next to my buddy, I'll go to the surface..." The instructor grabbed me by the buoyancy compensator and pulled me back. When my buddy caught his breath at the safety stop, we surfaced together.
After everything calmed down, I was ashamed to look both the instructor and my buddy in the eyes. Years have passed, and I still constantly replay this dive in my head, constantly worrying in my soul how wrong I was, how many mistakes I made.
But at the same time, I thought: "If my buddy had a decompression gauge with air integration, it would have beeped at the set mark. Let's say at 70 bar. And saved two stupid people from the human factor.
So I am all for modern technology. But while the technology is new, it is better to combine it with SPG
After years of doing both on OC rec diving and no issues with the transmitters with my Suunto EON steel, I made the switch to only AI when I went CCR, however at that point I had switched to the Shearwater swift transmitters and had no issues until one day they both died in different ways when I was luckily doing my unit build check list. One started leaking from the over pressure port, the other just stopped transmitting :/ but shearwater support was great and mailed me replacement transmitters right away. So bit of mixed feelings about relying solely on transmitters without at least bringing backup SPGs/transmitters so i don't have to lose out on a weekend of diving.
They are just two tools to solve the same problem. People assume that it's a question of safety vs. comfort. But i think that's missing the point. Both can range from extremely reliable to safety hazards. It all depends on the quality of the product, how well it's maintained and how much punishment it has to endure. You can use either one and have redundancies of either one.. as long as it's a quality product that is tested to safety standards you trust and you maintain and protect that equipment.. it's all good, no matter what you choose.
I always believe in the use of a backup. I do believe that the systems that are out there are good but any mechanical piece of equipment can and will fail. This reasoning is that you already have a an SPG why remove it.
I do SPG only, but when Garmin comes out with their decent Mk 3 I'll go to both. I dive solo a lot and redundancy could save my life
Let's hope the Descent Mk3i transmitter won't make the same annoying high pitch chirping sounds as the current one.
Both: AI because I found some used ones cheap. Button SPG, but not as a "backup." The SPG makes it easier to test tank-pressure without my computer.
I'm a huge fan of redundancy, however, the AI fail so rarely if you replace the batteries maybe once per year, that in the 0.1% of dives it might happen, you can end the dive early and safely.
I do both. I have a Suunto Viper Novo with a transmitter and my Aqua Lung SPG that came as a package deal with my regulators, octo, i300c and BCD. So in reality 2 dive computers, one transmitter and 1 SPG.
Super interesting to hear such a wild difference between the different pros on their setups, though it sounded like a lot of them weren't hard and fast set. On an unrelated note, any chance we can get Gus to walk us through the Dive Talk setup for streaming and recording 🤔. Wanna see the setup!
Don't have enough Transmitters to put one on every first stage I have on a dive. But have them on rebreather cylinders, and move them to other first stages for open circuit diving. I never use backup spg's. I have had many failures with spg's and their spools, and almost none with ai's.
The nature of all mechanical pressure gauges is they are most accurate in the middle of the scale and least accurate at the ends of the scale. Even when perfectly calibrated in the mid-range, in our experience at the centre, all mechanical SCUBA SPGs have poor accuracy at the very low end of the scale; possibly indicating significantly more (or less) breathing gas than what is really in the tank - and that's OK! That is why divemasters are often heard to say "Be back on the boat with 500 psi." Just to be clear, this is not a reflection on the quality of the gauge but rather a limitation of the mechanical bourdon tube technology at the very low end of the gauge range. Air integration is definitely more accurate and they do not just simply "fail" by themselves (there are alerts for that anyway)... you NEED to do the checks and ensure the computer and emitters are good on battery.
We're rocking our spg's would like to try a transmitter.. maybe one day!
Team both here. Technology always fails in the end so redundancy is key!
I have a Perdix AI with a swift transmitter and I'm on my second swift. My first one would randomly lose signal and I'd have to raise my wrist back towards the transmitter to reconnect. Interestingly, it would only happen on the ascent. 🤔 To Shearwater's credit, they promptly sent me a knew one before I could even ship my old one back. Worked great until this past weekend and this time it took much longer to reconnect. I'll be contacting them next week. To the point made about them breaking off the 1st stage, I have mine on a 6" hose to avoid that potential problem and a HP quick disconnect so that I can store it in a case when not in use.
Everyone that I know, and myself, all have a backup SPG. Except for one friend, whose transmitter battery died and was unable to dive with us. She didn't realize it until we were gearing up and didn't have a spare. I can dive comfortably without a computer, but obviously not without a pressure gauge. J valves are long gone. 😅
Good morning, from Cincinnati! Love you guys.. ❤
Page 4, Shearwater Teric manual, "This computer will fail. It is not whether it will fail but when..." My wife and I both have AI and SPG. AI is super convenient, but after 24 years of diving it's hard to break the habit of checking the SPG, even when the numbers are right there on the computer! It's not the cool, minimalist thing, but we also have a backup depth gauge as well...downsized to a newer compact console a few years ago instead of the 2" gauges but still brass and glass...
Since I dive with more than 1 computer - all Air Integrated - my fear is more about the transmitter failing than the actual computer, but like I said before, the transmitter fails and you just end your dive.
I used to use a Suunto D9, and I couldn't trust the AI on it, so had the backup SPG. Now I have the Perdix AI (MH8A transmitters, not Swift) , and it's been rock solid, but I still have a backup SPG that I rarely look at. The analog SPG is still best for pre-dive verification of air being turned on properly.
when i first got the transmitter, i would look at SPG to "verify" my computer, now i almost never look at the spg, but i still keep it; two is one and all...
I use both a transmitter and an spg. I may remove the spg soon, though. I think about it before every dive tbh, but I always decide to keep the spg. Good topic.
Nope.. rely on the gear you have. Plan on how to react if it fails. It also helps if you regularly replace the battery. The transmitters are really simple in design which leads to minimal possibility of failure. You should also be comfortable with knowing your consumption rate (kinda like the old fuel gauges in cars that didn’t work… you knew you could get 300 miles to a tank) for rough estimation if the transmitter fails
Hosed Air Integration here (Oceanic PP3). Upon a failure, "Dive's Over". I pack a second Reg w/ SPG-DG for travel. I believe a back-up computer is better than a back-up SPG given my set-up.
Shearwater AI but also both. I learned to dive with a depth gauge, a spg and a watch an did it that way for 10 years and 500 ish dives
obviously air integration is a good thing. it streamlines your equipment checking, you can get all the necessary info on your dive computer.
as soon as I save some extra money for some upgrades, I'd prolly buy an air integrated setup. but use SPG as backup.
like, there's tons of ways that either one can fail so you could argue that adding more means more things can break. but it's the same reasoning as to why every diver is supposed to have an octo, redundancy and safety is kept in mind for all aspects of diving, so why not for this as well?
In my diving club I often see people putting their octo and SPG on a separate first stage on a second valve, while having their air integration and primary on the other valve. basically: full redundancy for everything they can possibly set up in a redundant way. Which makes complete sense to me.
I use both. On my double 12, the transmitter is on the right bottle and the SPG is on the left.
I like the redundancy. For normal diving I only use the transmitter but if it should fail I still have the normal SPG.
My stage tanks only have SPG.
I use two AI Shearwater Teric and TERN TX with two Swift. The main reason is because I have to travel to dive, and one less hose is better for me. I just traded out my Oceanic Pro Plus X for the Tern TX.
Dive SPG, am a computer scientist and definitly love technology but if I can avoid one more point of failure that would be my choice. BTW would like to trace my air consumption and stuff like that with air integration but dont like the idea of one more device that can fail easier, and thats a fact when we talk about complexity of device and reliability.
Both,as I added a transmitter after I had the SPG. Also had a transmitter fail during a dive and lost integration, so the backup was useful v end the dive.
I have a Shearwater Perdix AI and associated Swift transmitter. I have dove AI for a long time, I had an Oceanic computer AI before my Shearwater. I just recently added a TINY SPG, ONLY BECAUSE: I am afraid of when the battery either in the computer or transmitter dies, mid dive and then I have no idea how much air I have left with just the computer. Just a little back up safety measure I put in place for myself for peace of mind.
I had my SPG flooded / break down a few months ago. But it still worked. Also had some issues with connection so from now on diving with both.
I just use air integration, no backup spgs though I do have spare spgs in the save-a-dive kit. If a transmitter fails during the dive, which they haven't yet, I would just turn the dive.
You should do a video on homemade shallow water dive helmets
The alternative to SPG is a 2nd AI Computer. I DO use Perdix AI and a SPG/Depth Gauge console but looking at 2nd Perdix 2 as I already have 2 transmitters for sidemount!
First of all I love the Shearwater transmitters, and have one on all of my regs. For my backmount setup I'm transmitter only, but for sidemount/tec I run both. I have to disagree with Woody on the reliability from Shearwater though... I've had 3 Swift transmitters blow their OPV on dives. 2 have been on deco bottles that were pressurized and off, they blew during the dive which flooded the units and sealed them off from leaking. It was only because I had a backup SPG that allowed me to safely complete the dive.
Great video. I asked this same question on a FB cave group and was ripped apart for just asking the question! Folks are very opinionated on this subject.
Always! We’re not afraid to ask and being criticized for asking.
I dive with a shear water perdix 2. I use a shearwater transmitter on a short hose. I also carry a backup SPG. On a few occassions while diving my transmitter has lost connection to my computer and I have had to move to my back up SPG. In the shearwater manual it states you shouldn't be diving with only air integration and should have an SPG as backup. While I'm no expert in diving only having been in the sport for just over a year; to me it makes logical sense to always carry redundancy. I'm surpised a few of the cave divers mentioned don't, considering their training would most likely focus on building redundancy. You carry 3 maybe more torches so why wouldn't you carry 2 methods of monitoring the amount of gas in your cylinders.
Hey dive talk guys, I met Medhi at Orange Grove Sink in FL last summer some time. Really a friendly and knowledgeable guy. I need to give him a call and get my diving skills progressing again. Hopefully it's not frowned upon to give a plug to someone but I know he and his colleague ran Tech Monsters in Tallahassee, FL. If you have any feedback I'd love to hear it.
We also use both because as said the spg is the back up to air integration and we like to have everything in double. But i rely on AI.
I use the AI on my O2 & dil on my rebreathers, but I use SPG on bailout tanks in cave. For OW diving I use AI on mine & my girlfriend’s so I can keep an eye on her gas too.
Tec Clark is 100% right!
I've been AI with backup SPG on OC for a while (on backmounted twins, AI on one 1st stage, SPG on the other. Currently SPGs on a CCR. I'm curious, assuming you're on Shearwaters, what info have you got it configured to show, as well as your o2 and dil levels?
I dive doubles, so I have air integration on one first stage and a SPG on the other. In case I ever have to close one valve I still know how much gas I have left.
AI or SPG depending on the tank. Primaries are AI, deco/stage SPG (money only reason). Having both on the same tank doesn't provide redundancy unless it is just an electronic failure, if an o-ring or hose goes you no longer have a closed system so neither will read accurately. You thumb the dive and go home. Or, as Woody said, if you are Edd you know how much you planned for and enjoy the remainder of the dive... LOL.
I have no idea what any of those phrases mean (in context anyway), but this was still a fun time. Have you guys gone over AI vs SPG before? If not, please do!
SPG = Submersible Pressure Gauge, it an analog dial gauge connected via a hose that tells you the pressure in your cylinder.
AI = Air Integration, it is a wireless pressure transmitter that communicates with your dive computer and displays your cylinder pressure on the computer screen.
AI is a nice gadget but the SPG is essential. I use the Perdix AI transmitter on my Rec setup (and an SPG) but not on my twins. I am a wreck diver and the protrusion of the transmitter is one more point of entanglement. I guess that is less of a risk with rebreathers. AI is also too expensive to have on my stages.
Essential? I've done hundreds of dives without it and I've been just fine.
@@DIVETALK OK. I’ll bite 😊. To be clear I am no Luddite, in fact I am an avid gadgets guy and I love technology (that’s why I bought the Perdix AI in the first place). When I say essential, I mean it’s the base line, the reference. You need a way to see the remaining air. An SPG is an easy reliable instrument and I try to follow the KISS rule (The last S is for me 😀). My Perdix AI (or any other AI) as I see it, for my tec dives and setup and not considering cost, has 2 Pros and 2 Cons. Pros: Automatic SAC calculations, Auto logging of air. Cons: Requires power, Risk of entanglement. If you spend the money you could add to the Pros that you can have all bottles monitored by one computer but also add to the Cons the (big for me) risk of messing up due to complexity of making sure you monitor the right bottle. So given that I will always have an SPG, adding the AI just adds one more point of failure on my 1st stage and an extra point for entanglement. As i said if i was diving rebreathers it could be a diffrent issue
I use redundant shearwater transmitters with redundant shearwater computers - and I often get lectured by other divers using a single SPG (no redundancy). My transmitters have never failed me and I don’t see the scenario where they would… maybe an EMP?
@S. M. haha I understand what you are saying. Maybe lecture isn’t the right word. They give me 💩 and it’s generally playful 🙃
I'm an SPG guy. Used to have a suunto transmitter, but had endless problems getting it to connect. Might upgrade to Shearwater AI in a couple of years, but for now happy to stay 'old school' 😅
As I see it depends on type of diving, open water and confined. I don't do confined or envision ever wanting to. Penetration and/or depth are not my thing and luckily where I live has great open ocean.
AI w/o back up.
I suspect not being (been diving) from the old school 'era' found it easier to trust the newer technology. Plus I like the streamlined configuration.
I'm not married to either AI or SPGs; it's a "right tool for the job" thing for me. The decision is based on the hazards expected on a dive, but for a typical dive I use AI on back-mounted setups and have never had an issue. When diving side mount, I have just used SPGs, and I have not had an SPG or SPG hose fail (or transmitter for that matter). If the dive poses elevated risks, then the method of monitoring gas pressure may be tailored to mitigate risk, whether it be SPGs or both. Stage/safety tanks are always SPG so that anyone can monitor gas pressure.
Why debate this? It's silly. Have a conversation with your instructors, dive shop, and buddies to get the relevant information regarding the pros and cons of using either or both, and choose what you are most comfortable with. Ultimately, you are the one that has to depend on the equipment for your safety and if having a hose fail makes you nervous, then go AI and enjoy the dive. If losing a transmitter makes you nervous, then go brass & glass and enjoy the dive. If you want both, then go for it! You have to have full trust in your equipment to truly relax and enjoy your diving activities.
I use AI for my back gas, I have redundant transmitters on my doubles with redundant computers. I use button SPGs on my stage bottles so they can be handed off if needed.
Preference and application. If your is treated harshly or there is the risk of someone using it to lift your gear/tank then spg.
If i did cave diving which i don't I would use both👌
Both, recently put an spg on because my primary computer had battery leak and hated day being done at that point
Very unpleasant feeling when Woody's video connection cut out the moment he says the word "reconnect" @12:53 while discussing reliability.
I would love to know once and for all the true failure rate of mechanical Spg vs AI. I have seen multiple spg’s blow but never a transmitter in 25 years of diving. As for breaking them off, this is why we put them on a hose like you do an Spg
I use air integration and an spg as a back-up. I'm taught that redundancy is the most important factor to avoid risk for anything what can happen.
This was fun. More! SPG only here!
I've seen a video where a guy has a transmitter mounted on a short (about 4") hose, so it moves around without breaking
This summer, thanks to Vas Proud (@DiverbyDesign) and Steve Martin (@sidemountscubadiving), I had an opportunity to test transmitters, and I really appreciate the new opportunities and advantages of integration. Let’s start with the advantages:
- you can easily monitor pressure, it’s fast and convenient. No need to change trim, unclip anything, and so on, much less task loading.
- your computer can track pressure and possibly warn you about low pressure, a sudden drop of pressure (possible leak) - so some additional safety,
- easy to read the pressure on your computer, low/no light conditions, and low vis will not affect the reading as much as when you use classic SPG,
- when diving sidemount computer can suggest you have to switch tanks,
- to me very important advantage is related to the post-dive analysis of the dive profile - you can track your SAC and factors which affect it - so next dive planning is easier. Possibly you can use air consumption as a marker of stress and general fitness.
- no additional hoses means fewer failure points and less drag during the dive. Equipment can be more streamlined.
- for rec dive you can have an eye on your partner - additional safety for both divers.
Of course, there are some disadvantages:
- for sure electronics are not as reliable as a mechanical gauge, but the probability of failure is small enough,
- current sensors are a little bulky and one needs to be more careful handling them, definitely, mechanical SGPs are more resistant to harsh handling, I think in the future sensors will be smaller, thus more resistant to accidental damage,
- price - they are simply way too expensive. Rec diver typically needs only one transmitter, so not a big deal, but sidemount diver needs at least two, rec diver can easily have four - it can hurt your wallet. I think the price is the only real bummer.
A lot of people mention failures and redundancy. In my opinion, mixing transmitters and classic SGPs will not add any benefits. It only introduces more failure points and more bulky equipment. If anything fails you have to call the dive. Period. I found an additional advantage of a transmitter in such a situation - your computer can alarm you and keep the last reading. So you have an impression about tank pressure which is pretty current, whereas with SPG you know the pressure from when you last read it, which can be 5-10 min. old.
A lot of people pointed out that the battery is an issue, but batteries are cheap, in case of any doubt one can simply replace the battery before the dive - problem solved. If the transmitter fails solution is as simple as just replacing it with a spare one (additional expenses) or just replacing it with a classic SPG. SPGs are available everywhere, I can’t imagine a diving center, which doesn’t have an SPG for replacement. The whole process takes minutes, so it is not a big deal.
I use Air integration on my GUE JJ CCR for both DIL & O2 with Petrel 3, no issue at all.
My best argument, which I have actually done before in a smaller scale. Hook up 10 spg to a single tank, then hook up 10 transmitters to a single tank. The spg will all give different pressures +-20%, sometimes more 😳
Transmitters will give the same pressure within a few digits.
“Redundancy guys”, do you have a backup spg for your spg? Lol I know I don’t. Especially when every 10 dives you see a hp hose or the spool leak from an spg.