Nice video but it seems like most people disagree with it as I do. I've been driving with mine for 12 years and I routinely breathe out of it and it always breathes fine. I explained to my partner this is where my octavo is and they say okay. You can not compare the needs of a recreational diver with an instructor. If I were an instructor, I would have a traditional octo but I'm not an instructor.
You’ve obviously never had to use it in the real world, especially in an emergency. Try using method at 100’ and ascending. You’re right, you’re not instructor so you have no concept from a safety standpoint.
Been running one for about 12 or so years. I like to stream line as much as possible. Actually used it in a dive emergency last year in Galapagos. 100 feet down. Mola Ramsey. 1000 foot death. 1st stage on my brother in laws tank failed. Read 2500, then went to 0 on a breath. Testing confirmed this failure. Gota love the 3rd world. Well he came over with chipmunk cheeks and I gave him my prime. Went to alt. Latched on to each other as trained...17 years ago!!!. I dumped his air. Added some to my bc. Please note we were properly weighted, and we started for the surface. Dive master came screaming over, a most excellent young lady, and took over. I dumped air and went back to primary. So it sucks vs my high end primary, but it would have easily got us both back to the surface. I love and trust mine. Training and being with divers you know and trust is everything. SF KRH
I like your channel and respect your opinion, but I use a Scubapro air2. I am a SSI and PADI instructor. I don't use them while training OW students because I want to be kitted the same way as my students. I like mine but did make a few changes to it that addresses a few of your issues. 1. The air2 breathes better than the 095 octo and as well as the 195 octo. I have tested it many times even below 30 meters. I believe that the one you tried didn't breath well but my does. 2. I put a standard length yellow octo hose on my primary s620 routed under the arm. This gives me the length of octo and solves your second issue. I do believe this is a potential problem but easily addressed. 3. I use the shoulder dump when breathing from the air2. But sure it is a difference that should be practiced. I am side mount certified and have done some technical diving as well. Truth is I am more comfortable using this method than a long and short hose on a side mount set up. Not that the side mount is less safe, it isn't, just I am more practiced at this. 4. Yes, you need to brief those you dive with on your configuration. No way around it but you can say the same for the different types of integrated weight systems. But I have found it to be a good conversation starter and it leads into a helpful conversation with an ista-buddy. This often would not take place if there weren't differences between kits. I find people more interested and attentive. This leads to some great conversations. 5. Service issues? That is a stretch. Take it in like any other regulator. 6. the Air2 is 250 dollars. the R195 is 220 dollars. I will spend the 30 dollars. All in all, I like my air2. It travels well and saves me some weight and a hose. I use the standard octo when I am with students but kind of wish there where more dive centers that trained on these.
Not that I don't believe you regarding the wob, but have you ever measured it? Work of breathing is a measurable thing and one needs to use the proper intermediate pressure as well.
@@xineisBR I have not measured it but it meets the EN 250A standard. At least the Air2 5th gen does. That is the only one that I have personal experience with. The intermediate pressure is matched with the scubapro mk25 first stage. I don't ever recommend using a first and second stage not made by the same manufacturer. I personally switch between my primary and secondary regulators at least one per dive for the practice and making sure it is working at depth. The Air2 breaths well at every depth I have tried it at. I even did a dive in Bali looking for Mola Mola where we stay below 30 meters as long as possible. I used it the entire dive just for a test. no issues and easy breathing. I will say that I have only used this setup in warm water. I believe that the Air2 is only rated to 10c (I could be wrong). Truth is, this is like so many other things, it is just a choice. If we start saying something shouldn't be used we should say why. I grew us in North Florida and side mount was all about making something that worked for the person who was using it. There are so many differences in side mount configurations that make this look down right standard.
I use an AirSource 2 most of the time for personal diving, came “free” with my first reg and bc and have not gone back to an octo. You raise good points, but allow me to counter. My primary is on a longer hose, also on an shared air ascent you should be firmly gripping your buddy, so by default they are up in your face. When ascending on shared air I use the dump valve to control buoyancy, and the inflator is in my mouth if I need to add air. It breaths well for me. In the setup you have the power inflator looks like it is an awkward position - mine sits relatively comfortably so I don’t have to turn away. The AirSource splits from the inflator hose for servicing. I come with a dive buddy, so we know how to use each other’s gear, but training another buddy on how the setup works is pretty trivial. For recreational travel in my opinion it is a great tool. That being said for any guiding or instruction environment the more standard your setup the better, and point taken on Tec Diving, in this environment having similar configurations is key to risk reduction.
Air sharing should be something that is standard across the board whether tech or rec. The best solution to air sharing is a configuration and method that works in all environments and at any level of diving. (the hogathian long hose configuration)
K B - you are probably correct, and that is how I see most tec diver gear set up, but that is a question for dive agencies and equipment manufacturers to get together on and standardize the protocol and setup.
I guess🤷♂️. Anyone can pick apart problems with just about any gear. I started diving in 1984, with an Air2 integrated power inflator. And I dove that setup until 1997, with no problems that you spoke of. I have no idea exactly how many dives, but its in the thousands for sure. Had two out-of-air situations involving other divers. It just was NOT as awkward, complicated or confusing, as described in this video. What can I say, it just worked fine. I got out of diving until recently. In purchasing new equipment, I went with an octo instead, which Im still getting use to. Probably the most important thing in this video in regards to integrated power inflators, is that you do need to go over out-of-air situations with anyone you dive with that is unfamiliar with it.
James you bring up a ton of useful points. I've had one for about a year and and have 70+ dives on it. Not the same octo you tested but a TUSA brand. Mine breaths just fine, never had an issue with it. In regards to out of air procedure, I have always discussed it with my dive buddy prior to jumping in the water. I love the convenience of having the second stage on my power inflate. I do not have an issue with the dumping valve since I'll use the one on my right shoulder and I require minimum adjustments to my buoyancy to begin with, so there is usually very little air in my BC.
Few additional thoughts. 1. We have all see safe seconds dragging in sand, muck, etc.. Do you really want to hope it still works. 2. If a diver is in a panic, they may grap the second stage in your mouth. Because they know it works. 3. You don't have to play the flute. If you have the right shoulder dump. I actually prefer the button placement on the integrated inflators. This video has generated a huge amount of conversation. I think that is great.
I'm a dive instructor who has been diving for 40+ years and I too love the integrated second stage for recreational diving. I think all the points in this video were great, and I do wear an octo when I teach and train my students on how to deal with an integrated regulator in OW class. I am the obnoxious buddy who does train his new buddy on the dive boat on how to share the primary in these cases. Thanks to this video, I don't feel bad about doing that anymore. I also get my integrated stage serviced every year, and that does add cost to getting my many regulators serviced. These are great videos and I will be watching more of them. One other thing to think about is the quality of the integrated regulator. I have tried several and find the SCUBA PRO and ATOMIC models to be reliable, but I had a very leaky Oceanic integrated regulator. Now that Huish seems to be buying everyone it is hard to say if any other companies make a decent version of this type of integrated inflator/regulator.
Totally valid reason you put out there if you are pairing that with a donut BCD. My Scubapro Hydros Pro came with an Air 2 and in my opinion it works flawlessly for me with a long hose primary. I'm a SSI divemaster, so it is a common practice for us to donate our primary regulator to our out of air students or customers. So during the air sharing procedure with my long hose primary regulator donated and I myself breathing on my Air 2, I could dump the air in my BC easily with my right shoulder dump valve, so I don't even have to play the underwater 'flute' as how you ridicule in your video. Also, please take note that the corrugated inflation hose of Scubapro Hydros Pro with Air 2 inflator is slightly longer than their other variant Hydros Pro with standard power inflator, so there is nothing awkward with my head movement when I'm breathing my Air 2 inflator in my mouth. Also, I have never tried any other Air 2 imitation other than my own Air 2 which is originally designed and patented by Scubapro, the breathing effort is smooth and easy, the effort is almost identical with my Tecline Tec 2 2nd stage with the dial-a-breath knob fully dialed out. To wrap up, I believe Air 2 inflator is not for everyone and it is certainly not for every type of BC that is not original designed to use with it. I would highly suggest you to try out the Air 2 with Scubapro Hydros Pro + a long hose (at least 1m) primary regulator. Then, you would understand why I would say all your points you made in this video is not 100% valid about this type of infla-regulator. Personally, I highly against this to be retrofitted onto any BC that has no alternative shoulder dump and on a standard length inflator hose.
Used an AIR II for years , still do , I regularly breath off it towards the end of my dives just so it gets used , work of breathing can be tuned by a competent tech , never had any issues with buoyancy on ascent. or safety stop but you have to practice like anything else in diving , know your gear and how it functions ,
Great video. I like watching different viewpoints especially on equipment like this. I trained 30+ years ago and always had a traditional octo secondary. My wife wanted to learn to dive so I decided to re-up my skills and do the open water course with her. Our dive center and the owner is solidly in the integrated power inflator camp and now that we're all but finished, it's all my wife knows. I did breathe off this exact integrated inflator. Even though it's been a while, I have to say I wasn't impressed with the airflow ease from it either. Thanks for giving me food for thought in regards to managing out of air scenarios with this secondary!
James, I congratulate you on your videos. It is the first time that I do not agree with you. I don't know, as is the quality of the Atomic Air Source, I suppose that because of the brand it must be very good. I'm going to talk to you about what if I have known Scubapro's Air2 for more than 20 years, first I'm going to tell you where I have my Air2 working, nothing more and nothing less than in a farm where they grow fish and there I direct a staff of 40 divers, they dive 5 times a week with an average of 5 dives a day, the Air2 5th generation are of such high quality, they just don't fail. Maintenance is done the same as the Scubapro MK2 EVO / R195 once a year and the equipment works perfectly. You just have to train people with this type of equipment. At these times in times of pandemic, for the diving instructor it is an additional source of gas in case of various problems under water. I recommend in addition to the octopus to bring an Air2. You are right that they are not comfortable and it is one of the reasons why technical divers do not use it, in addition to the bad reputation that the Air Source by Aqualung had in the 80s and 90s, it was a really bad product. I respect your opinion and I really like your videos. Happy bubbles.
Love your videos James but I also love my Atomic SS1. I've been diving with it for almost 20 years. Hundreds of dives off the Oregon coast spearfishing along with hundreds of warm water dives. When I'm spearfishing in cold water with VERY poor visibility and VERY strong currents, it's important to me to have my backup reg easily accessible because I already have a lot of gear to keep track of. I have a goody bag full of crabs on one hip, a stringer with fish on my other hip, a speargun in my hand, light on my other etc. There is a huge workload underwater and knowing my backup reg is in the exact same place every dive and easy to get to is a big deal - for me. No way I'd want a secondary looped around my neck on these dives plus yet another hose (I dive a dry suit in cold water). For warm water diving, the SS1 just makes packing my gear easier for travel and diving a joy because of how simple the gear setup is. I realize tech divers hate them but they hate most of my gear anyway and turn their noses up at most of the stuff I do while spearfishing. I stopped worrying about what tech divers thought of me long ago (I've been diving since 1979). Is a long hose second better for sharing air? Absolutely. But, the advantages of my SS1 outweigh the disadvantages - for me. BTW, I test my SS1 on every dive because it's so easy to reach and you're right, it doesn't breath as good as my primary but that's a minor issue for me.
You are absolutely correct. I dove an Atomic SS1 for years and one day I looked around at the other advanced divers I looked up to and realized NONE of them were diving an air integrated inflator/octo. Shortly after that I was on a deep wreck dive in key West when my SS1 failed between dives. I went to the dive center and rather than spend $350 to $500 to replace it, I just bought a longer hose for my primary and a decent regulator and necklace. Much better now! Thanks for confirming what I learned not long ago. Love your videos by the way, always informative!
Good points made but there are adequate responses for each one. Working backwards I am a dive professional who has trained over 1500 divers and been diving for 47 years. I, my co-instructors and leadership and students all dive with the Scubapro Air2 (it actually breathes excellently if it has been properly adjusted AND Scubapro inflator hoses deliver way more gas than a standard inflator hose). What technical divers do is of little concern to most divers as they represent a minority of divers, and open water recreational divers should use what works for them. Attached to a jacket-style BCD with dump valves you will find that adjusting buoyancy while breathing on the safe second is easy. We have never had a single failure of any kind of the Air2, we service them as specified by the manufacturer since it is a life support device. And, of course, divers should train with what they use and conduct a proper buddy check as well as go over emergency procedures. That comes down to training and avoiding complacency. I like to tell my students that diving is deceptively easy and it can all go up in flames during an emergency, which is why we train for that. Finally a traditional safe second is meant to supply air to a second diver, not to serve as a backup in case of a primary regulator failure. When does a primary regulator fail (unless you are using urethane hoses)?
James. There are several ways, as you know, to deflate your BCD...Folks who dive the air integrated BCD’s, like the Hydros Pro, for example, vent air usually by pulling on the cord over the right shoulder, vs long arming it with the hose over your head. Much more efficient and quicker in my opinion. I see the issues you are presenting, the same way I see the fact that wrapping a hose around your neck, is a strangulation hazard. I think the key is to train, train, train, until it’s muscle reflex and it works naturally...
How do you pull the chord over your right shoulder when the regulator on the other end of the chord is in your mouth? Take it out of your mouth? - OK, I get that, it's just training & that can be accomplished quite easily, but while it is out of your mouth, why not just raise it to dump?
People who are commenting here seem completely ignorant of how the Hydros Pro works - first the wings on the bag have bungees - as you pull down on the right hand dump valve you can control your ascent very easily with the air2 in your mouth - second my son and I who is my PRIMARY buddy practice out of air situations so we know what to expect - and we both have long enough primary hoses so I can see him in front of me, and the hydros BCD hose is plenty long enough - we new exactly what we were buying and why.
As a traveling diver it makes quite a difference for me not having the extra octo. I do agree that you need the extra step of responsibility when diving with one oof these (making sure your partner knows where to grab in an emergency, and getting it serviced) I have had no issues breathing on it as well. 71 rec dives this year of covid. No issues so far.
The Atomic SS1 actually breathes decently once it is tuned properly to match your first stage. I have been using an integrated inflator on and off for almost 30 years with no problems. When working as a dive master or instructor I do add a regular octo or carry a pony bottle as I am much more likely to deal with an out of air emergency but when I am not working it is nice to have only 2 hoses on my regulator.
I just wonder how many dives he has done with one? like you I have dived 100's of dives with one never had a problem if the hose is not long enough get a longer one, and as you said the SS1 breathes great and would be one of the most expensive. I have mainly used the Scubapro ones breathes 100 times better than the reg's I had in the late '70s
yep i would agree, it needs to be tuned/ adjusted to the rig it is attached to. any second stage/ reg will perform like crap if not matched (in terms of tuning) to the first stage it is used with.
I’ve used both set ups and You make valid points. Just some thoughts… Recreationally I do enjoy my Air 2. I Never had a problem breathing off it when I practice skills. I have no long secondary octo coming loose dragging on the reef or floating freely. My kit is streamlined with the air-2. If there is an emergency the air2 is always in the same place and I automatically reach for it. When my air 2 is in my mouth nobody, not even a panicked thrashing diver is going to easily pull that unit out of my mouth. Underwater seconds are precious during an emergency. Irregardless to opinions… Know your own gear and be comfortable with it.
I admit I didn’t read all of the comments on this video, however I did read several and I didn’t see anyone mention a huge reason as to why these units shouldn’t be used and or recommended. Besides all the excellent reasons that were outlined in the video, there is one that actually makes these units very dangerous. As you all may remember from your open water certification course, you were taught that in the “unlikely event” of your power inflator sticking you were instructed to disconnect the low pressure inflator hose from the power inflator, thereby stopping the gas from uncontrollably filling your bcd/wing. Now, this would be a nuisance, but you would be able to control your gas in your wing by orally inflating through your power inflator, and, in an “octo” configuration, you would still be able to donate gas in an emergency. Now, if you were to have that exact same problem; a stuck power inflator while using a gas integrated inflator, and you disconnected the low pressure hose you would no longer have gas to your alternate gas source. Very rarely does an emergency not come with additional problems to follow and in this scenario you would have a very serious out of gas situation. (Full disclosure, I had an Atomic SS1 when I purchased my first kit and the above scenario never occurred to me until one dive day I realized I didn’t have the Atomic LP hose that is specific to the SS1 because my reg set was getting serviced and I rented one, which had the standard LPI hose, which of course doesn’t work with the SS1. “No problem” I thought as I’d just orally inflate my bcd as needed. But, during a quality pre dive check, while breathing “both” regs, I realized I didn’t have an operational alternate gas source for either myself or my teammate. Well, no diving that day, but it was a nice boat ride!)
I used an Atomic SS1 (as seen in Vid) for my first 250+ dives. As a standard recreational diver, i have no issues with this unit except price. It makes donning gear and jumping in easier. NOW....... When I started training as a DM, I quickly realized how worthless this device was. AS mentioned, you will run into Out-of-Air scenarios, and its not the pretty "Hi, I am out of Air" you do in training. It is a mad panic scared out of their mind, I dive on vacation only diver. Hence, I quickly, dumped the AI Octo.... Then I got smart and went LONG HOSE. Yes, I went long hose before becoming a Technical diver. Now, it is the only method I recommend. I teach an Octo, only to ensure my students are prepared for rental gear, but my students are trained on Long hose.
I knew early that I was going Tech, so I switched to the long hose with a single take before Tech training just to get used to the long hose early. I also agree, long hose is the safest way to dive. Thx for your comments.
I learned with an Integrated Power Inflator 25 years ago, and it seemed OK then. It was certainly nice to have one less piece of kit to worry about coming loose or getting tangled. It also worked fine when we were drilling out of air emergencies in the pool, but I do think you have some valid points about the possibility that they could be an inferior solution in a real emergency. I probably will stick to a full second stage.
I really did not think this video would convince me to not use an IPI, I watched it to get some pointers or areas to pay attention to when using a new device. Some of the points on their own may be arguable, however when you look at the sum of all the issues he brings up and the number of ways the average diver is trained to respond to emergencies that you must alter, the benefit of using this does not outweigh the risk at all . Thank you for opening my eyes! I am purchasing a Scuba Pro Hydros X next month and one of the options was to get it with or without the IPI. Thanks to you I am sticking to my regular Octo system, saving money and most importantly diving safer for me and my buddies….great video.
Spot on argument, don't like seeing these on my students on on the boat. Away too much peer pressure, get right in a lighting speed action plan. . Recall a certain UK company version jamming open on side a 20M wreck on a diver I was passing with 2 students doing a Advance Open water cert dive. Diver was fine once I got the hose disconnected and calmed the 2 divers down to end there dive and ascend.
I love my air2. I love eliminating a line and being more streamlined. Air2 breaths great actually. No issues with dumping air as I use my shoulder dump. A few points: 1. octo or air integrated you equally should be discussing in a proper buddy pre dive brief out of air emergency plans, gear etc. 2. only complaint is i wish the air2 was 1-2" longer. It's a valid point that it's awkward. But it's only going to be used for an ascent so not the worst. 3. I highly recommend every once in a while you switch to your air integrated power inflator to practice using it etc. If you're practiced you're prepared. I also use an air integrated Garmin MK2i. Eliminates another hose. Love it. If i was an instructor I'd use an octo too. Makes since as you're likely to encounter OOA situations more often. Having an integrated air inflator wouldn't be a bad idea for training familiarity too though.
I’m new to diving, started in 2013 and I have a ScubaPro air 2 and my Air 2 breathes better than my S600, to which I upgraded to the A700s. Never did have an issue with the air 2. I do tell my dive buddies that they will take my primary regulator and I will use the air 2. Primary reg does have a longer hose to accommodate the air share
I agree, but. I use an Air2 (common name). Brand is Oceanic. Reason. During a Shark feed dive, I had a diver that was not my buddy panic and grab my primary regulator, no hand signals, then swim hard to the surface dragging me along. I was unable to get hold of my own Octopus 2nd stage with yellow Hose. The Air2 floated in front of my face and I managed to get it into my mouth, it worked rather well. I was OK. Air2 is not replacement for an Octopus 2nd reg on a long yellow hose and I always use one. The BCD inflator hose is extra long and has a pull-on-it dump valve built-in. This is also the perfect 1st & 2nd stage reg, as I usually have it connected to pony tank. (Spare Air). Easy to find in hurry and I can do a whole dive using it. The other Diver lived but was found to be using his brothers dive certification Card!
Thanks for the info, just got a bought a demo bcd from onine super store, and it had the same ss1 attached. I now have got one for sale if anybody wants one. Thanks James.
Excellent argument. I am a commercial diver and have used the integrated for 5 years and like the streamlining. Your points are all valid. Because I dive with the same buddy exclusively and he has the same set up I will not be changing. But I shall take the servicing point and be re checking the breathing balance adjustment. We have used the gear in an out of air scenario. With our experience it was no problem, no panic involved, however, I would fully support your recommendations for most instabuddy and occaisional recreational divers. Thanks for the thought provoking video.
I knew there would be a video here addressing this! I’m in the process of buying my first gear, and the sales person tried to sell me this in a package - I really didn’t want it because I worried that if something did go wrong, i may panic in an emergency situation. But they scoffed at me making me feel like I was being silly. Glad I didn’t cave and I did more research before buying.
That's really unfortunate to hear. Dive retailers should be concerned with your dive safety and comfort first, and money second. But unfortunately it doesn't always work that way. Best you can do is avoid recommending that shop to friends.
Been diving for 25 years and I've had an SS1 for 15. It's super safe it's just as easy to hand someone your primary as an Octo and breathe through the SS1. I've never used it nor my octo in those 25 years, but they actually teach it in class now as so many people buy them instead of octos.
I have the air2 and agree with all of your issues. I used it from my advanced open water all the way to instructor. During my instructor course I added an octo, so now I have three regulators to service yearly. Planning on swapping it out for a lpi or bpi very soon
I dive Aqua Lung and I use the Aqua Lung Air Source 3 which is Aqua Lungs version. I am a professional diver and have been for 20 years. My Air source 3 actually breathes really nice. I do agree that it isn't for everyone but I do find my airsource 3 useful and I Love it. Don't change my friend, you give very insightful information on your videos!!
@@clarkeysam I actually did not say it was complicated. The first comment said "less complications" you asked the question "how is it less complicated?" I merely stated one less hose. Replacing two hoses for one is simpler, therefore less complicated. One less hose potentially dangling, more streamlined etc. Not difficult really.
I find it interesting that you’re very ready and willing to tell us how dangerous these air integrated regulators are. You stated that you’re a technical fiber. I would say that most technical divers spend some time in caves as well. Now here’s my question for you; which is more dangerous and air, integrated power, inflator, or being an excess of 300 feet or fairly deep inside a cave system. Clearly technical/cave diving is far more dangerous, even though you guys are all “experienced”. If you compare the number of recreational divers to the number of technical divers, you find that the ratio is huge. Yes, unfortunately some recreational divers don’t make it back to the service. But that’s also true with text/cave divers. And the number of those who don’t make it are a far higher percentage than those that don’t make it as recreational Diver. You dive the way you wanna dive and I will dive the way I want to dive. It really is pilot in command. I have no interest in tech diving or cave diving. But I am a Course Director and have certified or sent to the instructor examination over 75 students and they’ve all passed on the first try. I train them for the real world and not to pass the exam. The exam is actually comparatively easy. One last thing you talked about a regulator that cost over $300. Well, the demo model power inflator you used was an Atomic brand. Atomic is not known for low priced equipment. They’re very well-made and you pay for it. Enjoy all your dives and be safe.
Have used the SS1 for 6+ years now and no issues. I have it serviced with my reg and computers every year. Hose on my Zeagle Stiletto is long enough to be serviceable/comfortable. I have used the SS1 for entire dives and in one emergency situation when my primary failed at 132' and had a safe, controlled ascent with deep stops and 3 minute safety stop. I have found the streamlining of gear and hoses to be worth the price. Also important to point out- have your computers tested every year on a flow bench to certify accuracy. Last year my workhorse oceanic (18 yrs old) was 12 feet off. That's a DCI accident waiting to happen. I will also mention that I routinely dive 100' or more and multiple dives a day, redundant computers on the same algorithm is helpful.
I've worked at a dive shop and rebuilt a lot of air2s ,and have one on my old BCD. You're right the older ones are terrible breathers, and you're right they would not be ideal in an emergency. The gen 5 is easy breathing , but too easy you have freeflow problems . Plus , if you switch to fullface like I have you can't use them anyway.
I can see there can be differences between makes, but I've been using a AP valves autoair for 20 years and find it breathes as well as a standard reg at depths down to 35m, as long as you have a longer hose on your primary sharing should be straight forward
Love my Zeagle 50D ZX and integrated Octo. Never an issue with buddy sharing which I have had to do twice. The setup was too low on your back 4:42 in the video and made the hoses short. My hoses are not that short.
You made some good points but you neglected any of the positive Points. What about the dangling octopus that I see damaging the coral. You completely forgot about trim. Getting your trim adjusted is allows you to increase your bottom time. When I am shooting pictures and video buoyancy is a major factor that allows me to get the quality of pictures I desire. I do not use this set up when I am working as a DM. I have been using one for over 20 years and have a few dive buddies that I dive with regularly, but when there happens to be the insta buddy I train them before we go. It is a risk I am willing to take. They are not as bad as you are making them out to be.
I like the SS1, but I don't really see your point here. You shouldn't have a dangling octo or anything else. What does a SS1 have to do with trim or buoyancy?
@@scmsean yes one should not have a dangling octo or other piece of Equipment but it is quite common to see. Trim and buoyancy do go hand in hand as basic fundamentals of diving. In my 35 years of diving I have seen divers all over the world get Sloppy with their equipment. Not every diver is as conscientious as you and I might be.
@@scottlauer7466 Most divers aren't very good. They either don't dive much, or they don't put in effort to improve. Trim and not having equipment dangling is important, but it really has nothing to do with this video.
@@scmsean True, you made my point, “most divers aren’t very good”. Using an SS1 will improve trim for a recreational diver and keep them from damaging the coral.
Hi James, love your videos, but this time I have to disagree with you. I have been using an ss1 for years now and mine breathes just fine and I've never had a problem with the insta buddy scenario. As far as having to turn my head to breathe from it that has never been an issue either. I guess it just comes down to personal preference. Keep the videos coming, I love most of your content that you provide.😉
They absolutely are terrible! I was doing a dive off of San Diego California last summer and my dive buddy had a 1st stage regulator malfunction and ended up running out of air. I had to donate my primary to him and breath off of that integrated power inflator and try to control my ascent from 80' what a nightmare! I immediately sold my Zeagle Ranger BCD and bought a backplate and wing and a new regulator set.
I mean... as a n00b its easier to deal with the integrated setup than it is to have two hoses flopping around. Yeah you get used to it the more you dive, but starting out it's easier to differentiate. If I'm donating air to a diver without, I'm handing out the primary and switching to my integrated. I don't usually use the "pull to dump" feature... I go for the one on the opposite shoulder to bleed off bcd air. When putting it on (I don't like people touching me unless they're doing a quick check on the tank), it's one less hose I have to worry about getting snagged on while dawning the gear. You made some good points and gave me more to think about. I have a standard secondary like you recommend simply because the BCD I bought didn't have the integrated built in (like the nighthawk I trained on).
I actually dove with someone where it failed in the on position at depth. Luckily she was well trained and detached the LPI hose and manually blew in the BCD to keep finish the dive.
My scuba proair2 is great and came with my BCD. Most of my dive guides use them. I’m glad you pointed out instructing people that your primary will be the share air which I have yet to do myself or hear from anyone. I’m blessed to dive with some of the best divers in the world which I would not include myself in that list but they all use the Proair2 that comes with the hydrospro. We do all use long main reg hoses though also. The instructors I know when they are working do use a dedicated second stage. I only know 1 technical diver and he uses a full face and dry suit so I don’t know any of his rig aside from that.
Great vid and greater discussion. The point about getting the BC serviced is spot on. I've had two BC failures due to corroded/warn parts. I favor streamlining gear, that is the only reason to have an integrated second/inflator. In the event of an emergency, you are correct, it will be clumsy. I think with a bit of practice ascending in a buddy breathing situ, entanglements will be eliminated. To your point, dive masters and instructors will have regular octo set-up for training and managing inexperienced divers.
The goal is not to eliminate multiple failure points, it is for convenience and to streamline configuration. Eliminating multiple failures is a technical thought process that you are applying to these recreational units...not a single manufacturer markets them that way. Check the marketing materials for Scubapro, Atomic, Aqualung, even Dive Gear Express and see where they claim to eliminate multiple failure points. A regulator with primary, integrated power inflator, and wireless transmitter is a pretty nice recreational kit that has two less hoses. I think your personal technical bias has impacted your review. The latest Atomic SS1 and Scubapro AIR2 breathe very, very good. Typical recreational BCDs designed for these units will have longer corrugated hoses and have right shoulder dump valves. Long-hose and bungeed second is 100% ideal when sharing gas, but few recreational divers run through S-drills at the start of every dive. If the number of instances where one must share gas is so high that the recreational primary and an integrated power inflator causes real issues...find new buddies. Just like using a traditional second alternate second stage, divers should practice OOA and ascents with the equipment they have. For the average recreational diver, this is not bad kit.
Completely disagree. This is completely tec diver bias. You needed to spend some time in the water and thought like a tec diver would do with everything else. I believe this only works in the recreational non-overhead realm. Let me address your points 1) short hose primary donate with buddy too close... Get a longer primary hose? This is the same issue with a typical recreational setup if you donate your primary vs octo. 2) ss1 too short and awkward... that is again your issue. Get a longer corrugated hose and lp hose so it fits Correctly. You did this for your Pressure gauge or Transmitter or long hose right? 3) regular doesnt breathe well? I disagree the SS1 breathes better then my scubapro S600 or negligible difference to 100 ft. 4) In the way of your long hose? Just wrong. I have my ss1 on the necklace. It sits like a normal necklace secondary. You put your long hose ontop, should have no issues with a primary donate. 5) the training thing is a bs tec diver point. That's a given for scuba. The assumption is you and your buddy is trained and aware to dive together safely... is it less DIR, of course. But tec divers do primary donate for a lot of reasons and this is a primary donate. You can change your primary to yellow/with yellow hose and make the SS1 stand out less in a blue or something if you like. A diver who needs air will either grab your primary, grab ur octo and realize to grab ur primary (ur fault shouldnt let them do whatever they want to you) or wait for u to give them your primary. 6) maintenance is also a bs point. Especially with the ss1. That is a problem if the diver is negligent or an idiot, especially with the ss1. The ss1 easily disconnects from the corrugated hose. It always stays with my regs. And this is without being trained on an SS1 or buying one from a scuba store. As soon as I got one, it was just what i naturally did. I usually really like the thought you put in things. This was a bashing and it seemed you only were searching for surface level issues. You didnt dive it, adjust it properly, or put some thought to work through any of your issues
O yea I missed your scuba flute point. You can say this is a training issue, but if you use an SS1 controlling it becomes really automatic. I've dove with my SS1 whole dives to understand the weaknesses and such of doing a thing. Didnt have any issues controlling my bouyancy at all. Plus on an emergency your just going up, and everyone should shoulder dump if your vertical or buyy dump of your horizontal. I dont remember ever deflating from my inflator except when taught in OW via PADI.
@@rithychhean518 All very good points. I've been diving for about 30 years and have used the Scubapro Air2 and more recently (10 years) the SS1. I've been an Instructor for over 25 years. I show my SS1 to my students to introduce them to the possibility that they might run into different gear, which is why I stress the buddy check prior to diving, especially if it's a new buddy like when your "solo diving". I've run into real out of air emergencies several times over the years, no not my students, and have never had an issue making it to the surface. It looks like James is completely biased when it's not even a piece of equipment he has used.
@@rithychhean518 you basically wrote the review I was going to write! I completely agree with you. You can't do a proper review without actually using it first.
James, I just certified in FL for open water (wish I could have gotten you!) and the dive shop I used only trained with Air2s on the BCD. On two different occasions when practicing out of air drills with my instructor in the pool, I donated my primary and then went for the Air2 myself- only problem was that I accidentally grabbed my snorkel (which I was told was mandatory to wear the entire time for training, even though you don't see many on the dive boat!). Needless to say, I purged it by breathing out (which worked fine underwater with a snorkel) and when I went to inhale, I got ZERO air movement. Luckily, I had a snorkel which blocked off the top underwater, or else I would have inhaled a huge amount of water. Both times it freaked me out, and those two bad times in the pool really put a lot of nervousness in me when it came time to go to open water. The worst part was, I didn't even know what happened the first time, and almost didn't realize what happened after the second time. Once I realized why I was going for my Air2 and not getting ANY air, I was able to correct the issue by moving the snorkel way back and making sure to double check what I was grabbing. I feel like this is a huge issue for new divers as it was such an easy mistake for me to make twice. Air2 on the same side as the snorkel = more opportunity for mistakes, especially with a newbie like me.
My setup *Me and my buddy diver both run full face masks and have matching gear setup for a few reasons (familiarity/mirror, safety, buddy backup for our particular setups) 3 air options 1) Ocean Reef Neptune 3 full face mask (+ backup mask) 2) Alternate air regulator with quick disconnect hose, which I wear around my neck under my chin (option to share air via mouth piece regulator or FFM quick release hose) 3) Atomic SS1 (safe second/inflator combo) I did not get the integrated SS1 to eliminate a hose, I got it as a 3rd backup. My standard Octopus is used as the alternate air source for myself or my buddy in any needed situation. But since we both dive FFM, in the event he needs my alternate air regulator, I also have an additional backup. I'm aware, the chances of needing it after I or my buddy switch to my octopus and ending the dive are extremely unlikely. I will probably never use it besides some buddy training drills. I'm ok with that. So yes, for most people it's not even needed. But for me and my buddy, we have multiple failsafe systems in place for ourselves and one another.
I’m assuming you can oral inflate them? If it goes into free flow, your BCD is also out of action? (I don’t see how that’s less failure points). The only positive is perhaps less space, good for travel but hardly a significant space saver. If they were a good thing, everyone would be using them.
Its about streamlining yourself. .Air integrated dive watch computer. You can lose a hose. A Zeagle Octo + for 25 years no problem. Lose another hose .Why because I like to wreck dive. . Primary in your mouth. Octo + in hand or on chest. Nothing is hanging off you to get caught on lines, nets and ropes ect. If I was always reef diving with newbies. The full package is required. And then it gives you a alternate to your alternate. Redundancy is great thing to have. Man I love to dive. Brother James
@@DiversReady I want to come down to Florida. Been thinking about going on a reef restoration dive. Lionfish derby hunt. What do you think about them. Got any recommendations for good place, group ,or area
This must be a regional or dive shop thing. My LDS and trainers love these. I've got the SS1 and have no issues with it. When I did my OW, the rental BC I was provided had an Air2 on it. Just like anything else, it's about training and practice. Any OOA situation is awkward if you've never trained for it or practiced. I'm seeing more and more divers on dive boats with them. If I'm tech/wreck diving, it's a different story. These aren't meant for that type of diving.
Yeah the entire staff at my LDS all uses them as do most of the folks that go on the LDS's trips. They don't have them on the rentals but they do go over the differences in the class, in this case the Mares Air Control and how differs from having an deadicated Octo. As James mention, i would agree that it is up to the diver with the Octo Integrated Power Inflator to let their buddy know it will be primary donate etc.... Also this something that should be called during the buddy check, like "hey, what is this and where is your octo" etc.. But that maybe too logical for some :)
@@keithgrainger-customfitnes3272 for me, it's less about the integrated power inflator/regulator and more about having equipment in a standard configuration that everyone I'm diving with will be familiar with. Generally speaking, when you start doing wreck diving, you're moving into more and more advance diving. I'm not talking about the purposefully sunk ship in 50' of water, that kind of Wreck diving is still Rec diving. I am talking about the advanced deco diving that you'll start doing once you get below 130' or are using multiple cylinders to stay down longer. In that kind of diving, I want to keep all my gear configured the same way everyone else is for safety reasons.
@@keithgrainger-customfitnes3272 pretty much. If I'm configured the same way as everyone else I'm diving with, then it's muscle memory for someone to find ABC piece of equipment on my body. The same principles are used in cave diving. You'll never see a cave diver use an integrated inflator in the place of a proper second stage octo. So everything has it's use/place. When I head down to the Caribbean to do some warm water princess diving with my wife, I want to be as light and simple as possible. The integrated power inflator is perfect for that. If all you plan on doing is diving in warm water, shallow, recreational diving, then these things are great.
My wife and I were recently diving in the Bahamas when her power inflator failed partially open and was slowly filling her BCD with air. She disconnected her inflator hose to correct the issue. Another reason to have an independent octo that is not integrated with the inflator. If she was relying on an integrated inflator for her air supply at that moment it would have been a disaster. If anything you’re introducing a complication in the event of a failure.
My BIL uses this set up, dives quite frequently and is meticulous in his equipment maintenance. His failure points (Atomic) have been the plastic inflator buttons (large orange buttons). Two have broken on him and he swears there has been no more than normal use with no trauma to the mechanism. This takes out the device for essentially any use, losing both the inflator and the stage while sent in for repair. The good news is that the buttons can be fixed and replaced, but the last down time was over 3 weeks. Yes, stuff breaks, but I think the efficiencies gained with this configuration take a bigger hit when it does.
That is why I like your site so much. I have an air integrated power inflator on both of my jackets. But what I found out about this gear has been summed up in your video. So, I am using two first and two second stages as primary and auxiliary air source. Well, in Austria you are mostly a cold water diver. But I find comfort in the knowledge that I have a third airsource to fall back on. (That is, if the first stage the inflator draws its air is still working)
James, I really enjoy your channel and I have learned a lot. I want to offer a couple alternative points/comments. I use an air integrated inflator for recreational diving only. Tech diving I do not. I also don't use two tanks or two regulators for recreational diving. (although I wish twinsets were readily available at recreational dive centers because I would dive this way because it would be safer) however at what point do we chose not to go diving. I have never had a problem with the air integrated system, with about 600 dives not a ton but enough to feel comfortable with it's reliability. In an emergency situation I believe it can work almost as well as a traditional alternate air source. The traditional alternate air source hose it not really long enough to separate from a panicked diver either and most divers are trained to connect arms in an out of air situation. I do agree that a long hose could be better but until we can standardize on that...... My air integrated power inflator easily detaches from bcd for annual service. I like the streamlined configuration. My bcd has a deflate cord on the right side that I can use for an ascent. I also don't think it's a good argument for not using it is because of training There are a lot of different gear configurations and there is no way to train for all or them. Divers can easily cover the use of the air integrated system during predive safety check. When I purchased mine it was actually less expensive when purchased with a bcd. Just some thoughts. Again I really enjoy your points of view and it definitely get me thinking I more about different situations.
Where I took my advanced and rescue they were really into these, which is why I got one. Almost everyone in the class had one. When I had to do the out of air as part of rescue, we did it with these. Lets be real. You do an out of air 1 or 2 times as part of open water. 1 or 2 times as part of rescue, then you never do it again. I don't think how you trained for it really matters. You are also taught to give the person your octo. If you give them your primary instead it is no different for them.
I set up with something similar. A second stage that attaches between the inflation hose and the stock BCD mouthpiece. The reason being because I carry a 19cu' pony tank with it's own long hose regulator that I attach to a standard position. Having three second stage hoses seemed to be a hose management problem. It could be argued the inflator second stage is unnecessary due to the pony tank, but it takes up little space for what it provides, (a second backup device). As far as breathing effort, that can be adjusted. Nobody wants a free flowing regulator, so manufacturers tend to make the factory setting a bit stiff.
I currently have an Air 2 setup on my BCD, and yes, it is a tad cumbersome, when I go to a backplate/wing setup I will certainly be dropping it in favor of a standard backup reg.
All great points and I can't really argue. I use the Atomic with a slightly longer hose. My Zeagle BCD has 3 dump valves, one on the shoulder, so dumping air is not an issue. I have been in an out of air situation 6 months ago, I had no issues with donating my primary. I also switch from my primary at least once during a day of diving, just to stay comfortable with using the secondary.
I consider myself pretty well informed as a padi divemaster who works in the industry full time, I can address the first complaint about air2 and air2 knockoffs breathing badly. if you are in need of your backup, you dont really care about how well it breaths, it shouldnt matter, I was taught as a regulator tech for scubapro to turn up the inhalation effort a little bit so you dont waist gas in a freeflow as often, ontop of that, atomic isn’t exactly the best regulator brand, if your interested in an emergency backup that breath’s really well, go get the original in the space, the scubapro air2, which again doesnt breath as good as any well tuned high flow regulator (because it isnt supposed to)
Thanks James. I have held the same opinion on Alternate Air Sources for years. It is a very unpopular opinion I have found, but I have stuck to my guns. I have always taught, keeping your primary and giving your Octopus on a long hose so I can keep control of the buddy breathing situation at "arms length". As an old lifeguard, and Asst. Instructor, I have first-hand knowledge of how fast things can go south. Keep up the good work. Really like your series.
I like mine. My instructor told me that if someone runs out of air, often they will panic and will rip your primary from your mouth. I have had one air emergency while diving and that’s exactly what happened, I was within arms length of my buddy but they were slightly behind me and all of a sudden i was missing my reg and they were shoving into their mouth. Now, I just assume that’s going to happen and have no problem using my Air2. Now, you’re dead on about the breathing IMO. I don’t like how it breathes but in an out of air situation, my buddy and I are going to start toward the surface anyways so the small amount of time I’d be on it is fine. If I was doing something where I would be down longer, I would add an octo, but for standard rec diving, the integration is really nice. I do like the Tech diving method of putting a secondary on a bungee around my neck though and will likely add that to my kit soon. Will still keep the integrated because why not?! It will be a back up to a back up and honestly, I’m ok with that especially since it is so streamlined. As for servicing, I like to take my bcd and regs in yearly anyways so the integrated gets serviced just as much as my primary. I do hate the inflator flute you mention but my setup has a hose pull vent so I just pull on the inflator and vent that way if needed. Thanks for the vid!
I agree 100%. I would also like to add that, in the event the inflator regulator has an issue while on a trip you have a problem. You can't just put a standard octopus on your first stage because you will also have to change your inflator. For those who did not believe the hassle of an out-of-air ascent with your buddy, try it. I sold one to a student that REALLY wanted it and gave my other one to one of my Divemasters.
The producer clearly states that in case of emergency you should dump air by pulling your quick dump valve at the base of corrugated hose instead of the mouthpiece. Also which model did you test? Scubapro air 2 is decent for breathing. The only complain with integrated 2nd stage should be that they forfeit redundancy in favor of minimalism, meaning : inflator and octo will fail at the same time...
While I do see your point, I would like to add training should include using integrated inflator. It is good to use to slim down on hoses that can get entangled or damage wild life. I don’t believe you looked at all sides of the equation. There will always be draw backs with any gear we choose.
I almost bought one of those when they came out. Hey, they were new and shiny, and it seemed like a good idea to get rid of a hose. I got somewhat put off by the price, which led me to think about it a bit deeper and came to the same conclusion you did ie a bad idea, and so I kept my regular octo. Now when a shiny new piece of gear or new method come up, I stop and think for a long time before I jump the gun.
Being a photographer I usually don't have a buddy so less chance of dealing with an OOA situation. I've been using a Combo atleast 25 years. My BC and Combo inflator are connected to my 19 CuFt pony so those 1st and 2nd do get serviced together. If someone does need air they get the long hose
I understand your points, especially over-looked service of one. However, the benefit is it solves octo-management, I.E. keeps your octo from being drug across the bottom because the octopus pocked in your BC doesn't work very well.
I definitely put a Scubapro Air 2 on right when it released thinking that it would be awesome to remove a line… lasted 3 dives with students and realized quickly that it wasn’t a good option for all of the reasons listed in the video. Great PSA!
James - yep, I have the Air2. It came as a part of my BCD package and was my first big purchase after deciding diving was definitely for me. I trusted the dive shop I bought it from as they described the benefits of eliminating another hose, being streamlined, etc. That said, I do remember thinking to myself (but did not vocalize it during the purchase) that I did not train on this type of set-up, and is that a problem? It concerned me, but without really understanding why. Never worried about it after that - never even thought to practice an out of air situation with this set-up. Hmmmm. Naive. Fast forward 2 years - I am now diving with new dive buddies in local quarries. I am the only one in the group diving with an integrated power inflator. I am sure they noticed immediately, but it took me a minute to say, “Hey, I would be giving you my primary in an emergency.” And still, until today, not even thinking about using my dump valves to control ascent during this type of situation. My buddies and I never discussed it. We discussed other emergency scenarios, but not this one, not really. Opening up your video this morning gave me a good smack in the forehead. I was like, “What did he just say?!? What? Oh, man.... And then I started reading the comments. Wow! I learned SO MUCH from this video. So much good firsthand experiences relaying why each side feels the way they do. I’m going to practice with it now, obviously, and am also considering adding an Octo going forward. Another great video and discussion. Thank you.
“Mommmmm, he’s picking on me, lol! I have that same SSI model and like it a lot. It’s convenient, easy to use, and has only two buttons just like any other inflator. Secondly, my primary hose is longer than std, so I would be sharing that one first while using my Dump valves on either side on my Ranger BCD. Thirdly, depending on the dive, I bring a nice Pony bottle,.....just like a tech diver would do! Great points you had, but are easily overcome.
I have used a Mares brand for years and like others have said once the tuning has been adjusted it breathes pretty decent. I have done away with mine for many of the reasons that you pointed out in the video. I am a Mares service tech and of all the regs I have serviced this is my absolute least favorite to work on. The other reason I went away from it is teaching purposes. I ended up with a regular octo to teach with and an octo inflator, the only reason I haven't done away with it is because how much it cost.
I've had an Air2 on and off (currently off). As a dive pro, my experience has been that they provide fewer options during an emergency situation, don't breathe as well and still require the same maintenance that a dedicated octo does. I'm curious about the statistics of a decent quality hose failure vs. a quality integrated power inflator failure... do we actually have any data? I can appreciate the streamlining conversation. For me, good environmental awareness and a hose retractor (if you want one) will keep you from damaging the environment and prevent entanglement. I have to admit... the point about tech divers did score a hit with me. I don't know a single tech diver that uses an integrated power inflator. hmmm. Thoughtful video thx!
#1. Mine works just as good as my primary....all hail Aqualung! #2. You should be close to your buddy if your donating. I want their face right in front of mine so I can keep eye contact and communicate better. #3. You have several other ways of venting. Not to mention, if it’s in my mouth it’s in the highest position for venting.... #4. Doesn’t concern me, I dive with my wife or alone. But if I did dive with a stranger it wouldn’t be that big of a deal to tell them. They’ll take air from wherever if it’s an emergency. #5. My secondary second stage gets serviced with my primary. Come on, dude....you should take care of ALL of your kit, not just your reg and primary. If you’re leaving your other stuff to rot then you deserve problems. I have to say, I disagree... just because tech divers don’t use them doesn’t mean they’re not safe. Ours are aqualung.....and I love it. It works absolutely as good as my primary which is the Mikron.... I thought your video was biased and presented without personally diving with them and trying a few to see how others work. Big Point for me. If other people have issue with them then they’re not trained enough. It’s just like any other thing in this world, there’s more than 1 way to get it done and this is one of them. You sir, have insulted my entire choice of how to set up my kit with what believe to be “rookie style complaints”. Youve earned my first thumbs down I’ve ever given!
I think its a null point and personal preference and solely dependent on your dive buddy or dive profile. Yes, your thoughts are welcomed, informative, and professional; However, I like my Air2 whenever I am Rec diving. I attach a longer Alt air source whenever I am teaching or assisting. I do brief my buddy if I have one. I don't routinely anticipate needing to give my alternate to the entire herd of divers. If asked I have my alt with me I'll slap it on as it only adds one hose due to my wireless computer and inflator.
I’m also going to have to dis agree with you in this instance , my new bcd (scuba pro X black ) came with the air 2 installed and i love it . One less hose to deal with and i use a transmitter and wrist computer . I have done entire dives just solely using my air 2 just to make sure it wasn’t going to fail . If you have to tell someone that the IPI needs serviced at the same time that the Regis do than maybe they need more training . I am not a dive master i am however a master diver . Ive never heard of anyone i dive with public safety or personal have any issues at all . I have actually seen a few people switch over to the IPI air 2 since seeing how well mine has worked . I can maintain a forward view as well being the hose is long enough.
Hi James, great vid as usual. Agree with all your points although I can see the arguments against for most of them. However for me point 3 was the clincher and quite frankly the only argument you need. In an emergency situation, faffing around with integrated alternate while your buddy is panicking on your primary just adds another element of risk that we can do without.
Good points, however if you plan on doing shallow less then 30ft dives , power inflator octos are ok. If you go on deeper dives that require safety stops a tradtional octo setup makes much more sense and more safe.
I couldn't agree more. These things are just a stupid waste of money asking for trouble. Anyone that says they like them, are just lying to themselves. They are dangerous and confusing for other divers. Diving a long hose with a backup on a necklace, absolutely makes the most sense of any other setup. It is the easiest to deploy and the safest.
Good video, and for serious tech diving I would agree, however there is a place for them. Recreational travel diving. I used to travel with a single checked bag that contained 2 full sets of scuba gear (full 3mm wetsuits, BCD's, etc) and they were but one part of getting it all in and under weight. My son was trained to use one from 11 years old, and used it while doing his junior open water. The instructor was happy to drill him on air emergencies using it. As my son is now grown I mostly dive solo but as my spouse has lifetime travel benefits after retiring from an airline career, I have reduced my dive kit to a tightly packed carry-on bag, so I can go at a moments notice and not worry about lost bags. And no waiting. Quickly outta the airport. An integrated octo is an important part of keeping it small. However, I will concede and will thank you for the reminder, but I've neglected to inform any of my new insta-buddies about the outta-air procedure. I always just kinda thought it was obvious.
Hi James good points but the product does have its place. When the ScubaPro Air2 first came out octopuses were not common. In fact a lot of regs only had one or two LP take offs some only one. You are absolutely correct working dive professionals and tech divers should not use these. The original Scubapro Air 2 breathed like sh1t but so did many of the regulators at the time. The Air 2 I use now breathes well enough I use it in my personal regular dives with my buddies. We practice with it regularly. I have used one since 1984 never had an issue with it. On service it’s common sense it needs to serviced with your reg - is this not a training issue? Cheers Brian
The use of an octopus or safe second stage was the standard in 1984. I was an instructor then. I have dove with an AIR II second generation and liked the setup. However, I dove with an extra long primary hose. The first generation was horrible and Scubapro quickly replaced it.
I feel like most of these criticisms can be averted with more training and responsible diver practices. Seems less of a problem with the design itself and more of a problem with how some people go about using it/their lack of consideration.
I agree, actually been in a couple of dive emergencies overseas..think 3rd world. Where I've used my alt air, at 100 feet 7 knot current, with out a issue.
My scubashop had these on my rental BC when I took open water and Advanced Open Water. Never used an Octo until out of class. I will never use and Air2 again for the same reasons mentioned here.
Get used to them & train with them...they are here to stay and in Hawaii if you don't bring your own rig its what your gonna get for a rental. Every dive center I dove with in Hawaii had Scubapro Air2. It's technology. We may not like change all the time, but you do have to learn to move with the change.
Well said! Also the Hydros Pro BC System has an appropriate length of hose so it easily reaches your mouth. The deflate button is easy to use and if your so messed up your just pull on your corrugated inflater hose and dump air from your top left shoulder valve! These Hydros BC Systems are here to stay with Air 2 damn correct buddy and super good and safe gear. As a self reliant scuba diver with a 19 CF pony, that reserve air regulator is clipped to my lower right safety triangle, that would be a tangle mess to have a traditional yellow octo in the same location. AGAIN application application application....
I know this is an old post but I just happened upon it and decided to weigh in anyway. While assisting the instruction of a PADI rescue diver course at a local quarry several years ago, I witnessed a student with an Air-2 mistakenly grab and attempt to breath from his snorkel TWICE during a buddy breathing exercise. The instructor got to him with his Octopus and was able to calm him from darting to the surface both times. I then decided to never own or promote the use of these devices.
I am very new to diving. This is the only thing I have used. Haven't had an out of air emergency. Yet. (Knock on wood.😊) I see the problem with the ascent and not being able to deflate. I also use the top or bottom deflation values. I am going to look at doing something different in the future.
i think for recreational diving that integrated inflators make sense, i cant tell you how many times I've seen novice or even in some cases experienced recreational divers who let their octo's just dangle and so because of that are not aware enough of their octo's location on their body to react to an out of air situation properly. with an integrated octo you will always know the location on it because you will be using your inflator throughout your dive. i don't think there appropriate for Tek diving or for instructors or dive masters but for the average recreational diver I think they make allot of sense.
Another great video and interesting to see some of the opposing comments. Personally, I've never used one so can't agree/disagree on how well they breathe. However, the main reasons I've never been drawn to them in the first place are highlighted in the video! It may work well for some but personally, I don't really see the benefit of using them to be honest. The standard octopus is much more universal, so no additional training / practice / guidance for dive buddies needed, it works well and provides more flexibility in emergency situations.
I think all your points make sense. I however have one on my diving set up that my parents bought me for my 18th (3 years ago) if I had bought the set up myself I wouldn't have had it on there but it came with it so I just kept it. iv had to use it twice in an out of air situation both times on the same trip where i was buddied up with the child of a couple thag was breathing way to fast and wasted his air and never checked his tank pressure and ran out twice in the same day and I had to give him my primary and both times the situation ended ok.
Agree with you 100% its bringing more problems than sollutions and for that insane cost??? I underatand if its like 50bucks and a cheap alternative but its not.
I agree that you have to train with your buddy when you use an octo-inflator, but there are some arguments for the use of this type of safe second. Our local shop trains with this setup for open water training. The instructors feel that when there is a true out-of-air emergency that a panicky diver will try to get at your primary, "He wants what you've got." Second, grabbing the inflator is second nature since we do it all the time. In an OOA situation, muscle memory favors the routine and you would be more likely to find the safe second quickly. I note that in your demo, you were using a relatively short hose (16"?). My rig has a 20" hose which makes for more slack when the onto is in use. I have used both the Scubapro Air2 and the Aqualung Air3; both seemed to breathe just fine. Another minor point is that you can route the SPG under the right arm; easier for me to find as a righty. One other modification is to have a 40" hose on the primary with a 90 degree elbow so that once you've handed off, your buddy is less likely to be up in your stuff. I have used this configuration a fair amount and have always trained with my buddy to simulate an out-of-air situation. But there are 2 arguments against that you did not mention. The most important is that in that moment after you have handed off the primary, but before you have found and deployed the octo-inflator both you and your buddy have no source of breathing gas. While this is also true with a 7' primary and necklace octo, it seems like it would be less of an issue because you can quickly scoop up the octo no-handed. Also, if you are traveling and have a problem with the octo-inflator there may be problem getting it fixed. I carry a backup unit when I use this configuration. Thank you, James, for a thoughtful exploration of this controversial topic.
Nice video but it seems like most people disagree with it as I do. I've been driving with mine for 12 years and I routinely breathe out of it and it always breathes fine. I explained to my partner this is where my octavo is and they say okay. You can not compare the needs of a recreational diver with an instructor. If I were an instructor, I would have a traditional octo but I'm not an instructor.
You’ve obviously never had to use it in the real world, especially in an emergency. Try using method at 100’ and ascending. You’re right, you’re not instructor so you have no concept from a safety standpoint.
Been running one for about 12 or so years. I like to stream line as much as possible. Actually used it in a dive emergency last year in Galapagos. 100 feet down. Mola Ramsey. 1000 foot death. 1st stage on my brother in laws tank failed. Read 2500, then went to 0 on a breath. Testing confirmed this failure. Gota love the 3rd world. Well he came over with chipmunk cheeks and I gave him my prime. Went to alt. Latched on to each other as trained...17 years ago!!!. I dumped his air. Added some to my bc. Please note we were properly weighted, and we started for the surface. Dive master came screaming over, a most excellent young lady, and took over. I dumped air and went back to primary. So it sucks vs my high end primary, but it would have easily got us both back to the surface. I love and trust mine. Training and being with divers you know and trust is everything. SF KRH
Glad it went smoothly!
I like your channel and respect your opinion, but I use a Scubapro air2. I am a SSI and PADI instructor. I don't use them while training OW students because I want to be kitted the same way as my students. I like mine but did make a few changes to it that addresses a few of your issues.
1. The air2 breathes better than the 095 octo and as well as the 195 octo. I have tested it many times even below 30 meters. I believe that the one you tried didn't breath well but my does.
2. I put a standard length yellow octo hose on my primary s620 routed under the arm. This gives me the length of octo and solves your second issue. I do believe this is a potential problem but easily addressed.
3. I use the shoulder dump when breathing from the air2. But sure it is a difference that should be practiced. I am side mount certified and have done some technical diving as well. Truth is I am more comfortable using this method than a long and short hose on a side mount set up. Not that the side mount is less safe, it isn't, just I am more practiced at this.
4. Yes, you need to brief those you dive with on your configuration. No way around it but you can say the same for the different types of integrated weight systems. But I have found it to be a good conversation starter and it leads into a helpful conversation with an ista-buddy. This often would not take place if there weren't differences between kits. I find people more interested and attentive. This leads to some great conversations.
5. Service issues? That is a stretch. Take it in like any other regulator.
6. the Air2 is 250 dollars. the R195 is 220 dollars. I will spend the 30 dollars.
All in all, I like my air2. It travels well and saves me some weight and a hose. I use the standard octo when I am with students but kind of wish there where more dive centers that trained on these.
Not that I don't believe you regarding the wob, but have you ever measured it? Work of breathing is a measurable thing and one needs to use the proper intermediate pressure as well.
@@xineisBR I have not measured it but it meets the EN 250A standard. At least the Air2 5th gen does. That is the only one that I have personal experience with. The intermediate pressure is matched with the scubapro mk25 first stage. I don't ever recommend using a first and second stage not made by the same manufacturer. I personally switch between my primary and secondary regulators at least one per dive for the practice and making sure it is working at depth. The Air2 breaths well at every depth I have tried it at. I even did a dive in Bali looking for Mola Mola where we stay below 30 meters as long as possible. I used it the entire dive just for a test. no issues and easy breathing. I will say that I have only used this setup in warm water. I believe that the Air2 is only rated to 10c (I could be wrong).
Truth is, this is like so many other things, it is just a choice. If we start saying something shouldn't be used we should say why. I grew us in North Florida and side mount was all about making something that worked for the person who was using it. There are so many differences in side mount configurations that make this look down right standard.
I use an AirSource 2 most of the time for personal diving, came “free” with my first reg and bc and have not gone back to an octo. You raise good points, but allow me to counter. My primary is on a longer hose, also on an shared air ascent you should be firmly gripping your buddy, so by default they are up in your face. When ascending on shared air I use the dump valve to control buoyancy, and the inflator is in my mouth if I need to add air. It breaths well for me. In the setup you have the power inflator looks like it is an awkward position - mine sits relatively comfortably so I don’t have to turn away. The AirSource splits from the inflator hose for servicing. I come with a dive buddy, so we know how to use each other’s gear, but training another buddy on how the setup works is pretty trivial. For recreational travel in my opinion it is a great tool. That being said for any guiding or instruction environment the more standard your setup the better, and point taken on Tec Diving, in this environment having similar configurations is key to risk reduction.
Paul, I totally agree with you.
Air sharing should be something that is standard across the board whether tech or rec. The best solution to air sharing is a configuration and method that works in all environments and at any level of diving. (the hogathian long hose configuration)
K B - you are probably correct, and that is how I see most tec diver gear set up, but that is a question for dive agencies and equipment manufacturers to get together on and standardize the protocol and setup.
I guess🤷♂️. Anyone can pick apart problems with just about any gear. I started diving in 1984, with an Air2 integrated power inflator. And I dove that setup until 1997, with no problems that you spoke of. I have no idea exactly how many dives, but its in the thousands for sure.
Had two out-of-air situations involving other divers. It just was NOT as awkward, complicated or confusing, as described in this video. What can I say, it just worked fine.
I got out of diving until recently. In purchasing new equipment, I went with an octo instead, which Im still getting use to. Probably the most important thing in this video in regards to integrated power inflators, is that you do need to go over out-of-air situations with anyone you dive with that is unfamiliar with it.
James you bring up a ton of useful points. I've had one for about a year and and have 70+ dives on it. Not the same octo you tested but a TUSA brand. Mine breaths just fine, never had an issue with it. In regards to out of air procedure, I have always discussed it with my dive buddy prior to jumping in the water. I love the convenience of having the second stage on my power inflate. I do not have an issue with the dumping valve since I'll use the one on my right shoulder and I require minimum adjustments to my buoyancy to begin with, so there is usually very little air in my BC.
Few additional thoughts.
1. We have all see safe seconds dragging in sand, muck, etc.. Do you really want to hope it still works.
2. If a diver is in a panic, they may grap the second stage in your mouth. Because they know it works.
3. You don't have to play the flute. If you have the right shoulder dump.
I actually prefer the button placement on the integrated inflators.
This video has generated a huge amount of conversation. I think that is great.
I'm a dive instructor who has been diving for 40+ years and I too love the integrated second stage for recreational diving. I think all the points in this video were great, and I do wear an octo when I teach and train my students on how to deal with an integrated regulator in OW class. I am the obnoxious buddy who does train his new buddy on the dive boat on how to share the primary in these cases. Thanks to this video, I don't feel bad about doing that anymore. I also get my integrated stage serviced every year, and that does add cost to getting my many regulators serviced. These are great videos and I will be watching more of them. One other thing to think about is the quality of the integrated regulator. I have tried several and find the SCUBA PRO and ATOMIC models to be reliable, but I had a very leaky Oceanic integrated regulator. Now that Huish seems to be buying everyone it is hard to say if any other companies make a decent version of this type of integrated inflator/regulator.
Totally valid reason you put out there if you are pairing that with a donut BCD. My Scubapro Hydros Pro came with an Air 2 and in my opinion it works flawlessly for me with a long hose primary.
I'm a SSI divemaster, so it is a common practice for us to donate our primary regulator to our out of air students or customers. So during the air sharing procedure with my long hose primary regulator donated and I myself breathing on my Air 2, I could dump the air in my BC easily with my right shoulder dump valve, so I don't even have to play the underwater 'flute' as how you ridicule in your video.
Also, please take note that the corrugated inflation hose of Scubapro Hydros Pro with Air 2 inflator is slightly longer than their other variant Hydros Pro with standard power inflator, so there is nothing awkward with my head movement when I'm breathing my Air 2 inflator in my mouth. Also, I have never tried any other Air 2 imitation other than my own Air 2 which is originally designed and patented by Scubapro, the breathing effort is smooth and easy, the effort is almost identical with my Tecline Tec 2 2nd stage with the dial-a-breath knob fully dialed out.
To wrap up, I believe Air 2 inflator is not for everyone and it is certainly not for every type of BC that is not original designed to use with it.
I would highly suggest you to try out the Air 2 with Scubapro Hydros Pro + a long hose (at least 1m) primary regulator. Then, you would understand why I would say all your points you made in this video is not 100% valid about this type of infla-regulator.
Personally, I highly against this to be retrofitted onto any BC that has no alternative shoulder dump and on a standard length inflator hose.
Used an AIR II for years , still do , I regularly breath off it towards the end of my dives just so it gets used , work of breathing can be tuned by a competent tech , never had any issues with buoyancy on ascent. or safety stop but you have to practice like anything else in diving , know your gear and how it functions ,
"Buoyancy flute" 😂🤣😂🤣😂
Jethro Tull
Great video. I like watching different viewpoints especially on equipment like this. I trained 30+ years ago and always had a traditional octo secondary. My wife wanted to learn to dive so I decided to re-up my skills and do the open water course with her. Our dive center and the owner is solidly in the integrated power inflator camp and now that we're all but finished, it's all my wife knows. I did breathe off this exact integrated inflator. Even though it's been a while, I have to say I wasn't impressed with the airflow ease from it either. Thanks for giving me food for thought in regards to managing out of air scenarios with this secondary!
James, I congratulate you on your videos. It is the first time that I do not agree with you. I don't know, as is the quality of the Atomic Air Source, I suppose that because of the brand it must be very good. I'm going to talk to you about what if I have known Scubapro's Air2 for more than 20 years, first I'm going to tell you where I have my Air2 working, nothing more and nothing less than in a farm where they grow fish and there I direct a staff of 40 divers, they dive 5 times a week with an average of 5 dives a day, the Air2 5th generation are of such high quality, they just don't fail. Maintenance is done the same as the Scubapro MK2 EVO / R195 once a year and the equipment works perfectly. You just have to train people with this type of equipment. At these times in times of pandemic, for the diving instructor it is an additional source of gas in case of various problems under water. I recommend in addition to the octopus to bring an Air2. You are right that they are not comfortable and it is one of the reasons why technical divers do not use it, in addition to the bad reputation that the Air Source by Aqualung had in the 80s and 90s, it was a really bad product. I respect your opinion and I really like your videos. Happy bubbles.
Agree
Agreed
Love your videos James but I also love my Atomic SS1. I've been diving with it for almost 20 years. Hundreds of dives off the Oregon coast spearfishing along with hundreds of warm water dives. When I'm spearfishing in cold water with VERY poor visibility and VERY strong currents, it's important to me to have my backup reg easily accessible because I already have a lot of gear to keep track of. I have a goody bag full of crabs on one hip, a stringer with fish on my other hip, a speargun in my hand, light on my other etc. There is a huge workload underwater and knowing my backup reg is in the exact same place every dive and easy to get to is a big deal - for me. No way I'd want a secondary looped around my neck on these dives plus yet another hose (I dive a dry suit in cold water). For warm water diving, the SS1 just makes packing my gear easier for travel and diving a joy because of how simple the gear setup is. I realize tech divers hate them but they hate most of my gear anyway and turn their noses up at most of the stuff I do while spearfishing. I stopped worrying about what tech divers thought of me long ago (I've been diving since 1979). Is a long hose second better for sharing air? Absolutely. But, the advantages of my SS1 outweigh the disadvantages - for me. BTW, I test my SS1 on every dive because it's so easy to reach and you're right, it doesn't breath as good as my primary but that's a minor issue for me.
You spearfish on Scuba?
You are absolutely correct. I dove an Atomic SS1 for years and one day I looked around at the other advanced divers I looked up to and realized NONE of them were diving an air integrated inflator/octo. Shortly after that I was on a deep wreck dive in key West when my SS1 failed between dives. I went to the dive center and rather than spend $350 to $500 to replace it, I just bought a longer hose for my primary and a decent regulator and necklace. Much better now! Thanks for confirming what I learned not long ago. Love your videos by the way, always informative!
Good points made but there are adequate responses for each one. Working backwards I am a dive professional who has trained over 1500 divers and been diving for 47 years. I, my co-instructors and leadership and students all dive with the Scubapro Air2 (it actually breathes excellently if it has been properly adjusted AND Scubapro inflator hoses deliver way more gas than a standard inflator hose). What technical divers do is of little concern to most divers as they represent a minority of divers, and open water recreational divers should use what works for them. Attached to a jacket-style BCD with dump valves you will find that adjusting buoyancy while breathing on the safe second is easy. We have never had a single failure of any kind of the Air2, we service them as specified by the manufacturer since it is a life support device. And, of course, divers should train with what they use and conduct a proper buddy check as well as go over emergency procedures. That comes down to training and avoiding complacency. I like to tell my students that diving is deceptively easy and it can all go up in flames during an emergency, which is why we train for that. Finally a traditional safe second is meant to supply air to a second diver, not to serve as a backup in case of a primary regulator failure. When does a primary regulator fail (unless you are using urethane hoses)?
James. There are several ways, as you know, to deflate your BCD...Folks who dive the air integrated BCD’s, like the Hydros Pro, for example, vent air usually by pulling on the cord over the right shoulder, vs long arming it with the hose over your head. Much more efficient and quicker in my opinion. I see the issues you are presenting, the same way I see the fact that wrapping a hose around your neck, is a strangulation hazard. I think the key is to train, train, train, until it’s muscle reflex and it works naturally...
I don't like the hose around the neck personally. But strangulation is not a factor, sorry.
How do you pull the chord over your right shoulder when the regulator on the other end of the chord is in your mouth? Take it out of your mouth? - OK, I get that, it's just training & that can be accomplished quite easily, but while it is out of your mouth, why not just raise it to dump?
Graham Birch Key word ‘right’ shoulder!
Not ‘left’.
@@greggascoigne941 Good point! I'm a dork :)
People who are commenting here seem completely ignorant of how the Hydros Pro works - first the wings on the bag have bungees - as you pull down on the right hand dump valve you can control your ascent very easily with the air2 in your mouth - second my son and I who is my PRIMARY buddy practice out of air situations so we know what to expect - and we both have long enough primary hoses so I can see him in front of me, and the hydros BCD hose is plenty long enough - we new exactly what we were buying and why.
As a traveling diver it makes quite a difference for me not having the extra octo. I do agree that you need the extra step of responsibility when diving with one oof these (making sure your partner knows where to grab in an emergency, and getting it serviced) I have had no issues breathing on it as well. 71 rec dives this year of covid. No issues so far.
Wanting less lighter gear is the main reason I have it as well.
The Atomic SS1 actually breathes decently once it is tuned properly to match your first stage. I have been using an integrated inflator on and off for almost 30 years with no problems. When working as a dive master or instructor I do add a regular octo or carry a pony bottle as I am much more likely to deal with an out of air emergency but when I am not working it is nice to have only 2 hoses on my regulator.
I just wonder how many dives he has done with one? like you I have dived 100's of dives with one never had a problem if the hose is not long enough get a longer one, and as you said the SS1 breathes great and would be one of the most expensive. I have mainly used the Scubapro ones breathes 100 times better than the reg's I had in the late '70s
yep i would agree, it needs to be tuned/ adjusted to the rig it is attached to. any second stage/ reg will perform like crap if not matched (in terms of tuning) to the first stage it is used with.
Can I ask how the tuning is done? I am in the market to by a BPW setup and will be attaching a SS1 to it . I've never used the SS1 before. Thanks.
I’ve used both set ups and You make valid points. Just some thoughts… Recreationally I do enjoy my Air 2. I Never had a problem breathing off it when I practice skills. I have no long secondary octo coming loose dragging on the reef or floating freely. My kit is streamlined with the air-2. If there is an emergency the air2 is always in the same place and I automatically reach for it. When my air 2 is in my mouth nobody, not even a panicked thrashing diver is going to easily pull that unit out of my mouth. Underwater seconds are precious during an emergency. Irregardless to opinions… Know your own gear and be comfortable with it.
I admit I didn’t read all of the comments on this video, however I did read several and I didn’t see anyone mention a huge reason as to why these units shouldn’t be used and or recommended. Besides all the excellent reasons that were outlined in the video, there is one that actually makes these units very dangerous. As you all may remember from your open water certification course, you were taught that in the “unlikely event” of your power inflator sticking you were instructed to disconnect the low pressure inflator hose from the power inflator, thereby stopping the gas from uncontrollably filling your bcd/wing. Now, this would be a nuisance, but you would be able to control your gas in your wing by orally inflating through your power inflator, and, in an “octo” configuration, you would still be able to donate gas in an emergency. Now, if you were to have that exact same problem; a stuck power inflator while using a gas integrated inflator, and you disconnected the low pressure hose you would no longer have gas to your alternate gas source. Very rarely does an emergency not come with additional problems to follow and in this scenario you would have a very serious out of gas situation. (Full disclosure, I had an Atomic SS1 when I purchased my first kit and the above scenario never occurred to me until one dive day I realized I didn’t have the Atomic LP hose that is specific to the SS1 because my reg set was getting serviced and I rented one, which had the standard LPI hose, which of course doesn’t work with the SS1. “No problem” I thought as I’d just orally inflate my bcd as needed. But, during a quality pre dive check, while breathing “both” regs, I realized I didn’t have an operational alternate gas source for either myself or my teammate. Well, no diving that day, but it was a nice boat ride!)
You’re also taught to buddy share, something you do if your primary failed AND your inflator sticks.
I used an Atomic SS1 (as seen in Vid) for my first 250+ dives. As a standard recreational diver, i have no issues with this unit except price. It makes donning gear and jumping in easier. NOW....... When I started training as a DM, I quickly realized how worthless this device was. AS mentioned, you will run into Out-of-Air scenarios, and its not the pretty "Hi, I am out of Air" you do in training. It is a mad panic scared out of their mind, I dive on vacation only diver. Hence, I quickly, dumped the AI Octo.... Then I got smart and went LONG HOSE. Yes, I went long hose before becoming a Technical diver. Now, it is the only method I recommend. I teach an Octo, only to ensure my students are prepared for rental gear, but my students are trained on Long hose.
I knew early that I was going Tech, so I switched to the long hose with a single take before Tech training just to get used to the long hose early. I also agree, long hose is the safest way to dive. Thx for your comments.
I learned with an Integrated Power Inflator 25 years ago, and it seemed OK then. It was certainly nice to have one less piece of kit to worry about coming loose or getting tangled. It also worked fine when we were drilling out of air emergencies in the pool, but I do think you have some valid points about the possibility that they could be an inferior solution in a real emergency. I probably will stick to a full second stage.
2nd stage?
I really did not think this video would convince me to not use an IPI, I watched it to get some pointers or areas to pay attention to when using a new device. Some of the points on their own may be arguable, however when you look at the sum of all the issues he brings up and the number of ways the average diver is trained to respond to emergencies that you must alter, the benefit of using this does not outweigh the risk at all . Thank you for opening my eyes! I am purchasing a Scuba Pro Hydros X next month and one of the options was to get it with or without the IPI. Thanks to you I am sticking to my regular Octo system, saving money and most importantly diving safer for me and my buddies….great video.
Thanks for watching, glad you made the best decision for yourself.
Spot on argument, don't like seeing these on my students on on the boat. Away too much peer pressure, get right in a lighting speed action plan. .
Recall a certain UK company version jamming open on side a 20M wreck on a diver I was passing with 2 students doing a Advance Open water cert dive.
Diver was fine once I got the hose disconnected and calmed the 2 divers down to end there dive and ascend.
I love my air2. I love eliminating a line and being more streamlined. Air2 breaths great actually. No issues with dumping air as I use my shoulder dump. A few points: 1. octo or air integrated you equally should be discussing in a proper buddy pre dive brief out of air emergency plans, gear etc.
2. only complaint is i wish the air2 was 1-2" longer. It's a valid point that it's awkward. But it's only going to be used for an ascent so not the worst.
3. I highly recommend every once in a while you switch to your air integrated power inflator to practice using it etc. If you're practiced you're prepared.
I also use an air integrated Garmin MK2i. Eliminates another hose. Love it.
If i was an instructor I'd use an octo too. Makes since as you're likely to encounter OOA situations more often. Having an integrated air inflator wouldn't be a bad idea for training familiarity too though.
I’m new to diving, started in 2013 and I have a ScubaPro air 2 and my Air 2 breathes better than my S600, to which I upgraded to the A700s. Never did have an issue with the air 2. I do tell my dive buddies that they will take my primary regulator and I will use the air 2. Primary reg does have a longer hose to accommodate the air share
I agree, but. I use an Air2 (common name). Brand is Oceanic. Reason. During a Shark feed dive, I had a diver that was not my buddy panic and grab my primary regulator, no hand signals, then swim hard to the surface dragging me along. I was unable to get hold of my own Octopus 2nd stage with yellow Hose. The Air2 floated in front of my face and I managed to get it into my mouth, it worked rather well. I was OK. Air2 is not replacement for an Octopus 2nd reg on a long yellow hose and I always use one. The BCD inflator hose is extra long and has a pull-on-it dump valve built-in. This is also the perfect 1st & 2nd stage reg, as I usually have it connected to pony tank. (Spare Air). Easy to find in hurry and I can do a whole dive using it. The other Diver lived but was found to be using his brothers dive certification Card!
Thanks for the info, just got a bought a demo bcd from onine super store, and it had the same ss1 attached. I now have got one for sale if anybody wants one. Thanks James.
Excellent argument. I am a commercial diver and have used the integrated for 5 years and like the streamlining. Your points are all valid. Because I dive with the same buddy exclusively and he has the same set up I will not be changing. But I shall take the servicing point and be re checking the breathing balance adjustment. We have used the gear in an out of air scenario. With our experience it was no problem, no panic involved, however, I would fully support your recommendations for most instabuddy and occaisional recreational divers. Thanks for the thought provoking video.
I knew there would be a video here addressing this! I’m in the process of buying my first gear, and the sales person tried to sell me this in a package - I really didn’t want it because I worried that if something did go wrong, i may panic in an emergency situation. But they scoffed at me making me feel like I was being silly. Glad I didn’t cave and I did more research before buying.
That's really unfortunate to hear. Dive retailers should be concerned with your dive safety and comfort first, and money second. But unfortunately it doesn't always work that way. Best you can do is avoid recommending that shop to friends.
Been diving for 25 years and I've had an SS1 for 15. It's super safe it's just as easy to hand someone your primary as an Octo and breathe through the SS1. I've never used it nor my octo in those 25 years, but they actually teach it in class now as so many people buy them instead of octos.
I use the ss1 and love it. Don’t see an issue for rec diving… less hoses, more comfort.
I have the air2 and agree with all of your issues. I used it from my advanced open water all the way to instructor. During my instructor course I added an octo, so now I have three regulators to service yearly. Planning on swapping it out for a lpi or bpi very soon
I dive Aqua Lung and I use the Aqua Lung Air Source 3 which is Aqua Lungs version. I am a professional diver and have been for 20 years. My Air source 3 actually breathes really nice. I do agree that it isn't for everyone but I do find my airsource 3 useful and I Love it. Don't change my friend, you give very insightful information on your videos!!
I love my air 2, no acto, less complications, and I do service my bcd every year.
How is it less complicated?!
As long as you stay in the shallow end of the pool.
@@clarkeysamSimple, one less hose.
@@scotty1830 if you find a hose complicated then you shouldn't be in the water.
@@clarkeysam I actually did not say it was complicated. The first comment said "less complications" you asked the question "how is it less complicated?" I merely stated one less hose. Replacing two hoses for one is simpler, therefore less complicated. One less hose potentially dangling, more streamlined etc. Not difficult really.
I find it interesting that you’re very ready and willing to tell us how dangerous these air integrated regulators are. You stated that you’re a technical fiber. I would say that most technical divers spend some time in caves as well. Now here’s my question for you; which is more dangerous and air, integrated power, inflator, or being an excess of 300 feet or fairly deep inside a cave system. Clearly technical/cave diving is far more dangerous, even though you guys are all “experienced”. If you compare the number of recreational divers to the number of technical divers, you find that the ratio is huge. Yes, unfortunately some recreational divers don’t make it back to the service. But that’s also true with text/cave divers. And the number of those who don’t make it are a far higher percentage than those that don’t make it as recreational Diver. You dive the way you wanna dive and I will dive the way I want to dive. It really is pilot in command. I have no interest in tech diving or cave diving. But I am a Course Director and have certified or sent to the instructor examination over 75 students and they’ve all passed on the first try. I train them for the real world and not to pass the exam. The exam is actually comparatively easy. One last thing you talked about a regulator that cost over $300. Well, the demo model power inflator you used was an Atomic brand. Atomic is not known for low priced equipment. They’re very well-made and you pay for it. Enjoy all your dives and be safe.
Have used the SS1 for 6+ years now and no issues. I have it serviced with my reg and computers every year. Hose on my Zeagle Stiletto is long enough to be serviceable/comfortable. I have used the SS1 for entire dives and in one emergency situation when my primary failed at 132' and had a safe, controlled ascent with deep stops and 3 minute safety stop. I have found the streamlining of gear and hoses to be worth the price.
Also important to point out- have your computers tested every year on a flow bench to certify accuracy. Last year my workhorse oceanic (18 yrs old) was 12 feet off. That's a DCI accident waiting to happen. I will also mention that I routinely dive 100' or more and multiple dives a day, redundant computers on the same algorithm is helpful.
I've worked at a dive shop and rebuilt a lot of air2s ,and have one on my old BCD. You're right the older ones are terrible breathers, and you're right they would not be ideal in an emergency. The gen 5 is easy breathing , but too easy you have freeflow problems . Plus , if you switch to fullface like I have you can't use them anyway.
I can see there can be differences between makes, but I've been using a AP valves autoair for 20 years and find it breathes as well as a standard reg at depths down to 35m, as long as you have a longer hose on your primary sharing should be straight forward
Love my Zeagle 50D ZX and integrated Octo. Never an issue with buddy sharing which I have had to do twice. The setup was too low on your back 4:42 in the video and made the hoses short. My hoses are not that short.
You made some good points but you neglected any of the positive
Points. What about the dangling octopus that I see damaging the coral. You completely forgot about trim. Getting your trim adjusted is allows you to increase your bottom time. When I am shooting pictures and video buoyancy is a major factor that allows me to get the quality of pictures I desire. I do not use this set up when I am working as a DM. I have been using one for over 20 years and have a few dive buddies that I dive with regularly, but when there happens to be the insta buddy I train them before we go. It is a risk I am willing to take. They are not as bad as you are making them out to be.
I like the SS1, but I don't really see your point here. You shouldn't have a dangling octo or anything else. What does a SS1 have to do with trim or buoyancy?
@@scmsean yes one should not have a dangling octo or other piece of
Equipment but it is quite common to see. Trim and buoyancy do go hand in hand as basic fundamentals of diving. In my 35 years of diving I have seen divers all over the world get Sloppy with their equipment. Not every diver is as conscientious as you and I might be.
@@scottlauer7466 Most divers aren't very good. They either don't dive much, or they don't put in effort to improve. Trim and not having equipment dangling is important, but it really has nothing to do with this video.
@@scmsean True, you made my point, “most divers aren’t very good”. Using an SS1 will improve trim for a recreational diver and keep them from damaging the coral.
Hi James, love your videos, but this time I have to disagree with you. I have been using an ss1 for years now and mine breathes just fine and I've never had a problem with the insta buddy scenario. As far as having to turn my head to breathe from it that has never been an issue either. I guess it just comes down to personal preference. Keep the videos coming, I love most of your content that you provide.😉
Once in the water, I doubt his BCD would be hanging that low on his back. He could put on a longer BCD hose set if it does.
They absolutely are terrible! I was doing a dive off of San Diego California last summer and my dive buddy had a 1st stage regulator malfunction and ended up running out of air. I had to donate my primary to him and breath off of that integrated power inflator and try to control my ascent from 80' what a nightmare! I immediately sold my Zeagle Ranger BCD and bought a backplate and wing and a new regulator set.
I mean... as a n00b its easier to deal with the integrated setup than it is to have two hoses flopping around. Yeah you get used to it the more you dive, but starting out it's easier to differentiate. If I'm donating air to a diver without, I'm handing out the primary and switching to my integrated. I don't usually use the "pull to dump" feature... I go for the one on the opposite shoulder to bleed off bcd air. When putting it on (I don't like people touching me unless they're doing a quick check on the tank), it's one less hose I have to worry about getting snagged on while dawning the gear.
You made some good points and gave me more to think about. I have a standard secondary like you recommend simply because the BCD I bought didn't have the integrated built in (like the nighthawk I trained on).
I actually dove with someone where it failed in the on position at depth. Luckily she was well trained and detached the LPI hose and manually blew in the BCD to keep finish the dive.
My scuba proair2 is great and came with my BCD.
Most of my dive guides use them.
I’m glad you pointed out instructing people that your primary will be the share air which I have yet to do myself or hear from anyone. I’m blessed to dive with some of the best divers in the world which I would not include myself in that list but they all use the Proair2 that comes with the hydrospro. We do all use long main reg hoses though also.
The instructors I know when they are working do use a dedicated second stage. I only know 1 technical diver and he uses a full face and dry suit so I don’t know any of his rig aside from that.
Great vid and greater discussion. The point about getting the BC serviced is spot on. I've had two BC failures due to corroded/warn parts. I favor streamlining gear, that is the only reason to have an integrated second/inflator. In the event of an emergency, you are correct, it will be clumsy. I think with a bit of practice ascending in a buddy breathing situ, entanglements will be eliminated. To your point, dive masters and instructors will have regular octo set-up for training and managing inexperienced divers.
thanks for sharing.
Mines came with my Bc but I still use an Octo for the same reason you mentioned, I have it in case my primary fails..better safe than sorry!!
The goal is not to eliminate multiple failure points, it is for convenience and to streamline configuration. Eliminating multiple failures is a technical thought process that you are applying to these recreational units...not a single manufacturer markets them that way. Check the marketing materials for Scubapro, Atomic, Aqualung, even Dive Gear Express and see where they claim to eliminate multiple failure points. A regulator with primary, integrated power inflator, and wireless transmitter is a pretty nice recreational kit that has two less hoses. I think your personal technical bias has impacted your review. The latest Atomic SS1 and Scubapro AIR2 breathe very, very good. Typical recreational BCDs designed for these units will have longer corrugated hoses and have right shoulder dump valves. Long-hose and bungeed second is 100% ideal when sharing gas, but few recreational divers run through S-drills at the start of every dive. If the number of instances where one must share gas is so high that the recreational primary and an integrated power inflator causes real issues...find new buddies. Just like using a traditional second alternate second stage, divers should practice OOA and ascents with the equipment they have. For the average recreational diver, this is not bad kit.
Completely disagree. This is completely tec diver bias. You needed to spend some time in the water and thought like a tec diver would do with everything else. I believe this only works in the recreational non-overhead realm.
Let me address your points
1) short hose primary donate with buddy too close... Get a longer primary hose? This is the same issue with a typical recreational setup if you donate your primary vs octo.
2) ss1 too short and awkward... that is again your issue. Get a longer corrugated hose and lp hose so it fits Correctly. You did this for your Pressure gauge or Transmitter or long hose right?
3) regular doesnt breathe well? I disagree the SS1 breathes better then my scubapro S600 or negligible difference to 100 ft.
4) In the way of your long hose? Just wrong. I have my ss1 on the necklace. It sits like a normal necklace secondary. You put your long hose ontop, should have no issues with a primary donate.
5) the training thing is a bs tec diver point. That's a given for scuba. The assumption is you and your buddy is trained and aware to dive together safely... is it less DIR, of course. But tec divers do primary donate for a lot of reasons and this is a primary donate. You can change your primary to yellow/with yellow hose and make the SS1 stand out less in a blue or something if you like. A diver who needs air will either grab your primary, grab ur octo and realize to grab ur primary (ur fault shouldnt let them do whatever they want to you) or wait for u to give them your primary.
6) maintenance is also a bs point. Especially with the ss1. That is a problem if the diver is negligent or an idiot, especially with the ss1. The ss1 easily disconnects from the corrugated hose. It always stays with my regs. And this is without being trained on an SS1 or buying one from a scuba store. As soon as I got one, it was just what i naturally did.
I usually really like the thought you put in things. This was a bashing and it seemed you only were searching for surface level issues. You didnt dive it, adjust it properly, or put some thought to work through any of your issues
O yea I missed your scuba flute point. You can say this is a training issue, but if you use an SS1 controlling it becomes really automatic. I've dove with my SS1 whole dives to understand the weaknesses and such of doing a thing. Didnt have any issues controlling my bouyancy at all. Plus on an emergency your just going up, and everyone should shoulder dump if your vertical or buyy dump of your horizontal. I dont remember ever deflating from my inflator except when taught in OW via PADI.
@@rithychhean518 All very good points. I've been diving for about 30 years and have used the Scubapro Air2 and more recently (10 years) the SS1. I've been an Instructor for over 25 years. I show my SS1 to my students to introduce them to the possibility that they might run into different gear, which is why I stress the buddy check prior to diving, especially if it's a new buddy like when your "solo diving". I've run into real out of air emergencies several times over the years, no not my students, and have never had an issue making it to the surface. It looks like James is completely biased when it's not even a piece of equipment he has used.
@@geraldgermann2541 cheers buddy. Stay safe!
@@rithychhean518 you basically wrote the review I was going to write! I completely agree with you. You can't do a proper review without actually using it first.
SS1 as a necklace... that's an approach I've never seen before!
I’ve never breathed through any regulator that didn’t breathe like garbage outside of water.
James, I just certified in FL for open water (wish I could have gotten you!) and the dive shop I used only trained with Air2s on the BCD. On two different occasions when practicing out of air drills with my instructor in the pool, I donated my primary and then went for the Air2 myself- only problem was that I accidentally grabbed my snorkel (which I was told was mandatory to wear the entire time for training, even though you don't see many on the dive boat!). Needless to say, I purged it by breathing out (which worked fine underwater with a snorkel) and when I went to inhale, I got ZERO air movement. Luckily, I had a snorkel which blocked off the top underwater, or else I would have inhaled a huge amount of water. Both times it freaked me out, and those two bad times in the pool really put a lot of nervousness in me when it came time to go to open water. The worst part was, I didn't even know what happened the first time, and almost didn't realize what happened after the second time. Once I realized why I was going for my Air2 and not getting ANY air, I was able to correct the issue by moving the snorkel way back and making sure to double check what I was grabbing. I feel like this is a huge issue for new divers as it was such an easy mistake for me to make twice. Air2 on the same side as the snorkel = more opportunity for mistakes, especially with a newbie like me.
My setup
*Me and my buddy diver both run full face masks and have matching gear setup for a few reasons (familiarity/mirror, safety, buddy backup for our particular setups)
3 air options
1) Ocean Reef Neptune 3 full face mask (+ backup mask)
2) Alternate air regulator with quick disconnect hose, which I wear around my neck under my chin (option to share air via mouth piece regulator or FFM quick release hose)
3) Atomic SS1 (safe second/inflator combo)
I did not get the integrated SS1 to eliminate a hose, I got it as a 3rd backup. My standard Octopus is used as the alternate air source for myself or my buddy in any needed situation. But since we both dive FFM, in the event he needs my alternate air regulator, I also have an additional backup.
I'm aware, the chances of needing it after I or my buddy switch to my octopus and ending the dive are extremely unlikely. I will probably never use it besides some buddy training drills. I'm ok with that.
So yes, for most people it's not even needed.
But for me and my buddy, we have multiple failsafe systems in place for ourselves and one another.
I’m assuming you can oral inflate them?
If it goes into free flow, your BCD is also out of action? (I don’t see how that’s less failure points).
The only positive is perhaps less space, good for travel but hardly a significant space saver.
If they were a good thing, everyone would be using them.
Its about streamlining yourself. .Air integrated dive watch computer. You can lose a hose. A Zeagle Octo + for 25 years no problem. Lose another hose .Why because I like to wreck dive. . Primary in your mouth. Octo + in hand or on chest. Nothing is hanging off you to get caught on lines, nets and ropes ect. If I was always reef diving with newbies. The full package is required. And then it gives you a alternate to your alternate. Redundancy is great thing to have. Man I love to dive. Brother James
THanks for sharing.
@@DiversReady I want to come down to Florida. Been thinking about going on a reef restoration dive. Lionfish derby hunt. What do you think about them. Got any recommendations for good place, group ,or area
This must be a regional or dive shop thing. My LDS and trainers love these. I've got the SS1 and have no issues with it. When I did my OW, the rental BC I was provided had an Air2 on it.
Just like anything else, it's about training and practice. Any OOA situation is awkward if you've never trained for it or practiced. I'm seeing more and more divers on dive boats with them.
If I'm tech/wreck diving, it's a different story. These aren't meant for that type of diving.
Yeah the entire staff at my LDS all uses them as do most of the folks that go on the LDS's trips. They don't have them on the rentals but they do go over the differences in the class, in this case the Mares Air Control and how differs from having an deadicated Octo.
As James mention, i would agree that it is up to the diver with the Octo Integrated Power Inflator to let their buddy know it will be primary donate etc....
Also this something that should be called during the buddy check, like "hey, what is this and where is your octo" etc.. But that maybe too logical for some :)
why do you not use it for wreck diving ?
@@keithgrainger-customfitnes3272 for me, it's less about the integrated power inflator/regulator and more about having equipment in a standard configuration that everyone I'm diving with will be familiar with. Generally speaking, when you start doing wreck diving, you're moving into more and more advance diving. I'm not talking about the purposefully sunk ship in 50' of water, that kind of Wreck diving is still Rec diving. I am talking about the advanced deco diving that you'll start doing once you get below 130' or are using multiple cylinders to stay down longer. In that kind of diving, I want to keep all my gear configured the same way everyone else is for safety reasons.
@@briandhuff gotcha. so safety reasons meaning; a way that everyone understands intuitively ?
@@keithgrainger-customfitnes3272 pretty much. If I'm configured the same way as everyone else I'm diving with, then it's muscle memory for someone to find ABC piece of equipment on my body. The same principles are used in cave diving. You'll never see a cave diver use an integrated inflator in the place of a proper second stage octo.
So everything has it's use/place. When I head down to the Caribbean to do some warm water princess diving with my wife, I want to be as light and simple as possible. The integrated power inflator is perfect for that. If all you plan on doing is diving in warm water, shallow, recreational diving, then these things are great.
My wife and I were recently diving in the Bahamas when her power inflator failed partially open and was slowly filling her BCD with air. She disconnected her inflator hose to correct the issue. Another reason to have an independent octo that is not integrated with the inflator. If she was relying on an integrated inflator for her air supply at that moment it would have been a disaster. If anything you’re introducing a complication in the event of a failure.
My BIL uses this set up, dives quite frequently and is meticulous in his equipment maintenance. His failure points (Atomic) have been the plastic inflator buttons (large orange buttons). Two have broken on him and he swears there has been no more than normal use with no trauma to the mechanism. This takes out the device for essentially any use, losing both the inflator and the stage while sent in for repair. The good news is that the buttons can be fixed and replaced, but the last down time was over 3 weeks. Yes, stuff breaks, but I think the efficiencies gained with this configuration take a bigger hit when it does.
Thanks for sharing.
That is why I like your site so much. I have an air integrated power inflator on both of my jackets. But what I found out about this gear has been summed up in your video. So, I am using two first and two second stages as primary and auxiliary air source. Well, in Austria you are mostly a cold water diver. But I find comfort in the knowledge that I have a third airsource to fall back on. (That is, if the first stage the inflator draws its air is still working)
James, I really enjoy your channel and I have learned a lot.
I want to offer a couple alternative points/comments. I use an air integrated inflator for recreational diving only. Tech diving I do not. I also don't use two tanks or two regulators for recreational diving. (although I wish twinsets were readily available at recreational dive centers because I would dive this way because it would be safer) however at what point do we chose not to go diving.
I have never had a problem with the air integrated system, with about 600 dives not a ton but enough to feel comfortable with it's reliability.
In an emergency situation I believe it can work almost as well as a traditional alternate air source. The traditional alternate air source hose it not really long enough to separate from a panicked diver either and most divers are trained to connect arms in an out of air situation. I do agree that a long hose could be better but until we can standardize on that......
My air integrated power inflator easily detaches from bcd for annual service.
I like the streamlined configuration. My bcd has a deflate cord on the right side that I can use for an ascent.
I also don't think it's a good argument for not using it is because of training There are a lot of different gear configurations and there is no way to train for all or them. Divers can easily cover the use of the air integrated system during predive safety check.
When I purchased mine it was actually less expensive when purchased with a bcd.
Just some thoughts. Again I really enjoy your points of view and it definitely get me thinking I more about different situations.
Where I took my advanced and rescue they were really into these, which is why I got one. Almost everyone in the class had one. When I had to do the out of air as part of rescue, we did it with these. Lets be real. You do an out of air 1 or 2 times as part of open water. 1 or 2 times as part of rescue, then you never do it again. I don't think how you trained for it really matters. You are also taught to give the person your octo. If you give them your primary instead it is no different for them.
I set up with something similar. A second stage that attaches between the inflation hose and the stock BCD mouthpiece. The reason being because I carry a 19cu' pony tank with it's own long hose regulator that I attach to a standard position. Having three second stage hoses seemed to be a hose management problem. It could be argued the inflator second stage is unnecessary due to the pony tank, but it takes up little space for what it provides, (a second backup device).
As far as breathing effort, that can be adjusted. Nobody wants a free flowing regulator, so manufacturers tend to make the factory setting a bit stiff.
I currently have an Air 2 setup on my BCD, and yes, it is a tad cumbersome, when I go to a backplate/wing setup I will certainly be dropping it in favor of a standard backup reg.
All great points and I can't really argue. I use the Atomic with a slightly longer hose. My Zeagle BCD has 3 dump valves, one on the shoulder, so dumping air is not an issue. I have been in an out of air situation 6 months ago, I had no issues with donating my primary. I also switch from my primary at least once during a day of diving, just to stay comfortable with using the secondary.
I consider myself pretty well informed as a padi divemaster who works in the industry full time, I can address the first complaint about air2 and air2 knockoffs breathing badly. if you are in need of your backup, you dont really care about how well it breaths, it shouldnt matter, I was taught as a regulator tech for scubapro to turn up the inhalation effort a little bit so you dont waist gas in a freeflow as often, ontop of that, atomic isn’t exactly the best regulator brand, if your interested in an emergency backup that breath’s really well, go get the original in the space, the scubapro air2, which again doesnt breath as good as any well tuned high flow regulator (because it isnt supposed to)
Agree with you James. Scuba Diving is already a complicated task, so there is no need to add more complicated things to the system.
Thanks James.
I have held the same opinion on Alternate Air Sources for years. It is a very unpopular opinion I have found, but I have stuck to my guns. I have always taught, keeping your primary and giving your Octopus on a long hose so I can keep control of the buddy breathing situation at "arms length". As an old lifeguard, and Asst. Instructor, I have first-hand knowledge of how fast things can go south.
Keep up the good work. Really like your series.
I like mine. My instructor told me that if someone runs out of air, often they will panic and will rip your primary from your mouth. I have had one air emergency while diving and that’s exactly what happened, I was within arms length of my buddy but they were slightly behind me and all of a sudden i was missing my reg and they were shoving into their mouth. Now, I just assume that’s going to happen and have no problem using my Air2. Now, you’re dead on about the breathing IMO. I don’t like how it breathes but in an out of air situation, my buddy and I are going to start toward the surface anyways so the small amount of time I’d be on it is fine. If I was doing something where I would be down longer, I would add an octo, but for standard rec diving, the integration is really nice. I do like the Tech diving method of putting a secondary on a bungee around my neck though and will likely add that to my kit soon. Will still keep the integrated because why not?! It will be a back up to a back up and honestly, I’m ok with that especially since it is so streamlined. As for servicing, I like to take my bcd and regs in yearly anyways so the integrated gets serviced just as much as my primary. I do hate the inflator flute you mention but my setup has a hose pull vent so I just pull on the inflator and vent that way if needed. Thanks for the vid!
I agree 100%. I would also like to add that, in the event the inflator regulator has an issue while on a trip you have a problem. You can't just put a standard octopus on your first stage because you will also have to change your inflator. For those who did not believe the hassle of an out-of-air ascent with your buddy, try it. I sold one to a student that REALLY wanted it and gave my other one to one of my Divemasters.
The producer clearly states that in case of emergency you should dump air by pulling your quick dump valve at the base of corrugated hose instead of the mouthpiece. Also which model did you test? Scubapro air 2 is decent for breathing. The only complain with integrated 2nd stage should be that they forfeit redundancy in favor of minimalism, meaning : inflator and octo will fail at the same time...
I'll take redundancy everytime.
absolutly agree James. thans a lot!! I wondered if I was the only one that did not like it
While I do see your point, I would like to add training should include using integrated inflator. It is good to use to slim down on hoses that can get entangled or damage wild life. I don’t believe you looked at all sides of the equation. There will always be draw backs with any gear we choose.
I almost bought one of those when they came out. Hey, they were new and shiny, and it seemed like a good idea to get rid of a hose. I got somewhat put off by the price, which led me to think about it a bit deeper and came to the same conclusion you did ie a bad idea, and so I kept my regular octo. Now when a shiny new piece of gear or new method come up, I stop and think for a long time before I jump the gun.
Being a photographer I usually don't have a buddy so less chance of dealing with an OOA situation.
I've been using a Combo atleast 25 years.
My BC and Combo inflator are connected to my 19 CuFt pony so those 1st and 2nd do get serviced together.
If someone does need air they get the long hose
I understand your points, especially over-looked service of one. However, the benefit is it solves octo-management, I.E. keeps your octo from being drug across the bottom because the octopus pocked in your BC doesn't work very well.
I definitely put a Scubapro Air 2 on right when it released thinking that it would be awesome to remove a line… lasted 3 dives with students and realized quickly that it wasn’t a good option for all of the reasons listed in the video. Great PSA!
James - yep, I have the Air2. It came as a part of my BCD package and was my first big purchase after deciding diving was definitely for me. I trusted the dive shop I bought it from as they described the benefits of eliminating another hose, being streamlined, etc. That said, I do remember thinking to myself (but did not vocalize it during the purchase) that I did not train on this type of set-up, and is that a problem? It concerned me, but without really understanding why. Never worried about it after that - never even thought to practice an out of air situation with this set-up. Hmmmm. Naive.
Fast forward 2 years - I am now diving with new dive buddies in local quarries. I am the only one in the group diving with an integrated power inflator. I am sure they noticed immediately, but it took me a minute to say, “Hey, I would be giving you my primary in an emergency.” And still, until today, not even thinking about using my dump valves to control ascent during this type of situation. My buddies and I never discussed it. We discussed other emergency scenarios, but not this one, not really.
Opening up your video this morning gave me a good smack in the forehead. I was like, “What did he just say?!? What? Oh, man.... And then I started reading the comments. Wow! I learned SO MUCH from this video. So much good firsthand experiences relaying why each side feels the way they do. I’m going to practice with it now, obviously, and am also considering adding an Octo going forward.
Another great video and discussion. Thank you.
“Mommmmm, he’s picking on me, lol! I have that same SSI model and like it a lot. It’s convenient, easy to use, and has only two buttons just like any other inflator. Secondly, my primary hose is longer than std, so I would be sharing that one first while using my Dump valves on either side on my Ranger BCD. Thirdly, depending on the dive, I bring a nice Pony bottle,.....just like a tech diver would do! Great points you had, but are easily overcome.
I have used a Mares brand for years and like others have said once the tuning has been adjusted it breathes pretty decent. I have done away with mine for many of the reasons that you pointed out in the video. I am a Mares service tech and of all the regs I have serviced this is my absolute least favorite to work on. The other reason I went away from it is teaching purposes. I ended up with a regular octo to teach with and an octo inflator, the only reason I haven't done away with it is because how much it cost.
I've had an Air2 on and off (currently off). As a dive pro, my experience has been that they provide fewer options during an emergency situation, don't breathe as well and still require the same maintenance that a dedicated octo does. I'm curious about the statistics of a decent quality hose failure vs. a quality integrated power inflator failure... do we actually have any data? I can appreciate the streamlining conversation. For me, good environmental awareness and a hose retractor (if you want one) will keep you from damaging the environment and prevent entanglement. I have to admit... the point about tech divers did score a hit with me. I don't know a single tech diver that uses an integrated power inflator. hmmm. Thoughtful video thx!
#1. Mine works just as good as my primary....all hail Aqualung!
#2. You should be close to your buddy if your donating. I want their face right in front of mine so I can keep eye contact and communicate better.
#3. You have several other ways of venting. Not to mention, if it’s in my mouth it’s in the highest position for venting....
#4. Doesn’t concern me, I dive with my wife or alone. But if I did dive with a stranger it wouldn’t be that big of a deal to tell them. They’ll take air from wherever if it’s an emergency.
#5. My secondary second stage gets serviced with my primary. Come on, dude....you should take care of ALL of your kit, not just your reg and primary. If you’re leaving your other stuff to rot then you deserve problems.
I have to say, I disagree... just because tech divers don’t use them doesn’t mean they’re not safe.
Ours are aqualung.....and I love it. It works absolutely as good as my primary which is the Mikron.... I thought your video was biased and presented without personally diving with them and trying a few to see how others work.
Big Point for me. If other people have issue with them then they’re not trained enough. It’s just like any other thing in this world, there’s more than 1 way to get it done and this is one of them. You sir, have insulted my entire choice of how to set up my kit with what believe to be “rookie style complaints”.
Youve earned my first thumbs down I’ve ever given!
I'm only half way through my dive certification but that looks like a bad idea to me.
I think its a null point and personal preference and solely dependent on your dive buddy or dive profile. Yes, your thoughts are welcomed, informative, and professional; However, I like my Air2 whenever I am Rec diving. I attach a longer Alt air source whenever I am teaching or assisting. I do brief my buddy if I have one. I don't routinely anticipate needing to give my alternate to the entire herd of divers. If asked I have my alt with me I'll slap it on as it only adds one hose due to my wireless computer and inflator.
I’m also going to have to dis agree with you in this instance , my new bcd (scuba pro X black ) came with the air 2 installed and i love it . One less hose to deal with and i use a transmitter and wrist computer . I have done entire dives just solely using my air 2 just to make sure it wasn’t going to fail . If you have to tell someone that the IPI needs serviced at the same time that the Regis do than maybe they need more training . I am not a dive master i am however a master diver . Ive never heard of anyone i dive with public safety or personal have any issues at all . I have actually seen a few people switch over to the IPI air 2 since seeing how well mine has worked . I can maintain a forward view as well being the hose is long enough.
Hi James, great vid as usual. Agree with all your points although I can see the arguments against for most of them. However for me point 3 was the clincher and quite frankly the only argument you need. In an emergency situation, faffing around with integrated alternate while your buddy is panicking on your primary just adds another element of risk that we can do without.
Good points, however if you plan on doing shallow less then 30ft dives , power inflator octos are ok. If you go on deeper dives that require safety stops a tradtional octo setup makes much more sense and more safe.
I couldn't agree more. These things are just a stupid waste of money asking for trouble. Anyone that says they like them, are just lying to themselves. They are dangerous and confusing for other divers. Diving a long hose with a backup on a necklace, absolutely makes the most sense of any other setup. It is the easiest to deploy and the safest.
Good video, and for serious tech diving I would agree, however there is a place for them. Recreational travel diving. I used to travel with a single checked bag that contained 2 full sets of scuba gear (full 3mm wetsuits, BCD's, etc) and they were but one part of getting it all in and under weight. My son was trained to use one from 11 years old, and used it while doing his junior open water. The instructor was happy to drill him on air emergencies using it.
As my son is now grown I mostly dive solo but as my spouse has lifetime travel benefits after retiring from an airline career, I have reduced my dive kit to a tightly packed carry-on bag, so I can go at a moments notice and not worry about lost bags. And no waiting. Quickly outta the airport. An integrated octo is an important part of keeping it small.
However, I will concede and will thank you for the reminder, but I've neglected to inform any of my new insta-buddies about the outta-air procedure. I always just kinda thought it was obvious.
Hi James good points but the product does have its place. When the ScubaPro Air2 first came out octopuses were not common. In fact a lot of regs only had one or two LP take offs some only one. You are absolutely correct working dive professionals and tech divers should not use these. The original Scubapro Air 2 breathed like sh1t but so did many of the regulators at the time. The Air 2 I use now breathes well enough I use it in my personal regular dives with my buddies. We practice with it regularly. I have used one since 1984 never had an issue with it. On service it’s common sense it needs to serviced with your reg - is this not a training issue? Cheers Brian
The use of an octopus or safe second stage was the standard in 1984. I was an instructor then. I have dove with an AIR II second generation and liked the setup. However, I dove with an extra long primary hose. The first generation was horrible and Scubapro quickly replaced it.
I feel like most of these criticisms can be averted with more training and responsible diver practices. Seems less of a problem with the design itself and more of a problem with how some people go about using it/their lack of consideration.
I agree, actually been in a couple of dive emergencies overseas..think 3rd world. Where I've used my alt air, at 100 feet 7 knot current, with out a issue.
You’re right... But they still breathe like trash!
@@DiversReady on the surface at a desk while videoing, lol! 🤣😜
@@DiversReady Atomic SS1 breathes very well. Easily as well as most octos.
My scubashop had these on my rental BC when I took open water and Advanced Open Water. Never used an Octo until out of class. I will never use and Air2 again for the same reasons mentioned here.
I saw I think a dive master who had a regular set up, primary and octopus, but had one of these octo/inflators as well
Get used to them & train with them...they are here to stay and in Hawaii if you don't bring your own rig its what your gonna get for a rental. Every dive center I dove with in Hawaii had Scubapro Air2. It's technology. We may not like change all the time, but you do have to learn to move with the change.
Well said! Also the Hydros Pro BC System has an appropriate length of hose so it easily reaches your mouth. The deflate button is easy to use and if your so messed up your just pull on your corrugated inflater hose and dump air from your top left shoulder valve! These Hydros BC Systems are here to stay with Air 2 damn correct buddy and super good and safe gear. As a self reliant scuba diver with a 19 CF pony, that reserve air regulator is clipped to my lower right safety triangle, that would be a tangle mess to have a traditional yellow octo in the same location. AGAIN application application application....
I know this is an old post but I just happened upon it and decided to weigh in anyway. While assisting the instruction of a PADI rescue diver course at a local quarry several years ago, I witnessed a student with an Air-2 mistakenly grab and attempt to breath from his snorkel TWICE during a buddy breathing exercise. The instructor got to him with his Octopus and was able to calm him from darting to the surface both times. I then decided to never own or promote the use of these devices.
Problem is PADI requiring a stupid snorkel in a freaking quarry. Put the blame where it belongs
I am very new to diving. This is the only thing I have used. Haven't had an out of air emergency. Yet. (Knock on wood.😊) I see the problem with the ascent and not being able to deflate. I also use the top or bottom deflation values. I am going to look at doing something different in the future.
James, couldn’t agree more, it’s not an effective safe option for reducing failure points.
i think for recreational diving that integrated inflators make sense, i cant tell you how many times I've seen novice or even in some cases experienced recreational divers who let their octo's just dangle and so because of that are not aware enough of their octo's location on their body to react to an out of air situation properly. with an integrated octo you will always know the location on it because you will be using your inflator throughout your dive. i don't think there appropriate for Tek diving or for instructors or dive masters but for the average recreational diver I think they make allot of sense.
Another great video and interesting to see some of the opposing comments. Personally, I've never used one so can't agree/disagree on how well they breathe. However, the main reasons I've never been drawn to them in the first place are highlighted in the video! It may work well for some but personally, I don't really see the benefit of using them to be honest. The standard octopus is much more universal, so no additional training / practice / guidance for dive buddies needed, it works well and provides more flexibility in emergency situations.
I think all your points make sense.
I however have one on my diving set up that my parents bought me for my 18th (3 years ago) if I had bought the set up myself I wouldn't have had it on there but it came with it so I just kept it. iv had to use it twice in an out of air situation both times on the same trip where i was buddied up with the child of a couple thag was breathing way to fast and wasted his air and never checked his tank pressure and ran out twice in the same day and I had to give him my primary and both times the situation ended ok.
Agree with you 100% its bringing more problems than sollutions and for that insane cost??? I underatand if its like 50bucks and a cheap alternative but its not.
The Buoyancy Flute … ROTFL … that’s a keeper.
I agree that you have to train with your buddy when you use an octo-inflator, but there are some arguments for the use of this type of safe second. Our local shop trains with this setup for open water training. The instructors feel that when there is a true out-of-air emergency that a panicky diver will try to get at your primary, "He wants what you've got." Second, grabbing the inflator is second nature since we do it all the time. In an OOA situation, muscle memory favors the routine and you would be more likely to find the safe second quickly. I note that in your demo, you were using a relatively short hose (16"?). My rig has a 20" hose which makes for more slack when the onto is in use. I have used both the Scubapro Air2 and the Aqualung Air3; both seemed to breathe just fine. Another minor point is that you can route the SPG under the right arm; easier for me to find as a righty. One other modification is to have a 40" hose on the primary with a 90 degree elbow so that once you've handed off, your buddy is less likely to be up in your stuff. I have used this configuration a fair amount and have always trained with my buddy to simulate an out-of-air situation. But there are 2 arguments against that you did not mention. The most important is that in that moment after you have handed off the primary, but before you have found and deployed the octo-inflator both you and your buddy have no source of breathing gas. While this is also true with a 7' primary and necklace octo, it seems like it would be less of an issue because you can quickly scoop up the octo no-handed. Also, if you are traveling and have a problem with the octo-inflator there may be problem getting it fixed. I carry a backup unit when I use this configuration. Thank you, James, for a thoughtful exploration of this controversial topic.