How to FIX Desyncs in 5 Minutes
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- How to review ESC desync issues in 5-minutes.
If you want a deep dive on with Start Power / Rampup Power does, check out this GREAT VIDEO from SiieeFPV on the influence on a motor from a dead stop and also on throttle ramps: • Exploring startup power
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Great video. It is worth pointing out that 5" quads can get away with a low Startup Power like you showed, but micro drones often need a higher startup power. In particular, a lot of whoops and toothpicks will fail to start properly if the Startup Power is that low. I'm talking about 06xx to 08xx motors in particular. One or two motors will sometimes twitch instead of starting properly. But if they do start, then they work just fine until they stop again. In that case, increasing the Startup Power usually fixes it. In fact, some manufacturers ship their whoops with Startup Power max out at 1.5 for this reason. Just something to consider. But yes, on 5" drones it does not need to be that high. A high Startup Power on a 5" drone will cause big current spikes. Not only can that cause the ESC to reset (make the startup tones if you're close enough to hear it), but a high startup power on a 5" drone can also increase electrical noise showing up in the FC and FPV. That's my experience anyway. Keep up the great work!
Great point, I also wanted to drop the link to SiieeFPV's testing on Start Power influence on motor startup from a dead stop, and also for throttle ramps wile the motor is spinning: ruclips.net/video/KSXKV8V85To/видео.html
Thanks. I've done setting my toothpick with 0.125 and it won't fly so I put it to 0.2 and it flies.
Yea, I just tried this on a 2S 3" toothpick with 1202.5 ~6000kv motors and it won't even lift off the ground with such a low value.
Thanks. I just changed my Blheli_32 settings and then read your comment and changed them back on my 3 inch. Not sure if dipping to one side and recovering most of the time is actually a desync or not.
Could just be an overshoot from bad pids. If slow, change i-term relax cutoff to 5 and if BF 4.2, increase the PD Balance slider.
a couple days ago i had the same problem, non of these method works but after updating the FC firmware and shorten the motor the problem SOLVED!!!
Hey, I had a fresh 6s build and it was happening. Did exactly what you said for bl32 and it worked . 5 flights today and no issue .. FIXED THX BUD...
Awesome!!
Dr. Quad. Everything i know about tuning, i’ve learned from you! Thanks for all the very informative videos! knowing how everything works on a detailed level really helps it stick (or gimbal?).
Thank God that hasn't happened to me in years. Saved just in case I ever run into that issue again. Thanks for the vid 🤙🏻
Short and informative, my favourite kind of video! Thanks and stay safe.
Your forgot to mention two other things that are crucial in solving desyncs. Motor Timing and PWM frequency. I had lots of trouble with desyncs on my low kv 7" 6S Build. Especially when running 48khz and Auto or low (
Hey, you just helped figure out my wibbly wobbliness. thanks man! P.s. the 2-4" tune fucking rocks. Using it on a custom pavo pico guts build.
Thank you so much. Your video solved my problem with a build. Installed some 1507 flat rat 2800 kv motors on my taycan mxc 3” (6s). I thought there was an incompatibility between the flat rat motors and the newbeedrone cricket 200 stack. Had some poor flight characteristics during flight and noticed desync during abrupt full throttle blips. Adjusted the settings as your video suggests and the throttle blips no longer cause problems. I’ll test fly tomorrow to see if the other flight issues have been solved. Thanks again!
Thank you for this video I hope it helps my problem because this is exactly what my Nazgul is doing
What you explain in 2:32 "recover from desync" I maybe hae this in my vids "3Dᵐᵒᵈᵉ FPV | Charge 11-16 | Crux35 | Back to BLHeli | Still the shocks" and "3Dᵐᵒᵈᵉ FPV | First 10 battery packs | Crux35 | Shock problem !". I gonna try to fix that. So many thanks for your video. Greets from Germany.
Nice,fast,clear and informative. How to fix desyncs in 4,5 min :)
This is a great video. So many peoples quads can be fixed by doing this
Thanks for the tip! The start of the video looks exactly like what I've been plagued with so I'll try these!
Why no of those great explanations? What does that rampup power do to the ESC? Great that you tell us what to do, but I bet we all love your explanations on how it works!
It is the kicking force to get the motor started.
A few months ago I crashed my quad on a tree. After that it was desyncing randomly a lot of times. Turns out a branch cut one of the windings on the motor and the esc didn't really like driving the motors with essentially less poles.
great video, you nailed all the desynch causes, for me dynamic idle caused desynch problems on 2 quads even though the instructions from BF wiki were applied to the letter.
Awesome summary! I had collected a big note file with tips to combat desyncs over the last year or so, this video made a lot of that redundant and would have helped me so much had I found it originally! Thanks!
Was having these issues with another quad last week thanks for the helpful info
I just found that I was flashing a wrong firmware in the past ! All good and my motor run so smoothly now.
awesome! just had a desync this weekend, so im gonna try this
Huge thanks to my fpv PID sensei!!
Great tips, Mark! 😊
Thanks a lot!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
I have this on and ELRS setup , unfortunatly none of the tips you gave fixed the issue of random savage desyncs espêcially with 6s batteries. I m out of clues .
Thank you, my one speed record quad that has Desyncs issue is my 6s one on 2750Kv motors, hopefully this will fix.
THANK YOU !!!!!! For making this video!!!
I’ve got a couple sets of Tmotor F40 pro IV that have damage to the windings from the inside of the bell touching them, seems the windings in these motors are sitting too high in places and now T motor has a rubber washer under the bell it can compress and the inside of the bell can grind the high spots on the windings.
One of the motors eventually got a winding cut right through and it stalls as soon as I raise throttle above hover but kind of amazing it still works at all I thought. I put the least damaged out of 8 motors onto one quad and every now and then one of the motors desyncs but recovers. T motor aren’t very helpful, I’ve bought thousands of dollars of their motors and they are dead to me now, emax eco II all the way 😎
I’ll give this a try on the dodgy motors though, thanks.
Man, those Emax EcoII's are butter. They're well worth the 💰. Cheap with a premium feel. I have two sets of the 2807's, and one set of 2207's. I prefer the Eco II's over the Tmotors, & my Hypetrain Grinder's, especially for the price difference.
215 / 5000
I also have a lot of trouble with T-Motor F40 Pro IV, multiple desync during a flight. Especially at Yawspin. Any of the engines cause trouble. I haven't found the cause yet.
ESC is also a T-motor.
Betaflight 4.42 and BLhelis here we are again :D
worked for me on my 3" Gecko. cheers Mark
I hope to resolve it on my f7 mamba(black) just solder! thank gain great videos and clear explanation ;-)
Whats the BlueJay equivalent of 0.125 Ramp up power?
Having a problem, I installed a GoPro on my 5" 6s quad (total 728 grams) , when I giving high throttle then my quad loosing power and drawin a lot of current like 50-60amps and falls from sky slowly and my motors are hot esc as well..Without GoPro it's fly like normal powerful quad.. Brainfpv Radix2 is the Flight controller and tmotor velox 45A ESC installed in this quad.. Do you know how to fix this problem..?
I do this by default on my quads, some of the ESCs don't necessarily need it but my Flycolor stacks did. First flight on a 5", scared shitless and it goddamn did the flip of death. Straight to my houses roof. Good times :D
That what mine is also is a flycolor stack. After updating to 4.2.3 and getting bidirectional working I had a dsync. Maybe cause I had motor stopped enabled in betaflight. How hobby place had set back in 3.5. So turned that off and gonna adjust my start power in blheli_s and fingers crossed fixes issue
Thank you!
Great explanation. Maybe you can make a tutorial about ESC startup and rampup power configuration in general?
I realized that proper quad behavior after structurally sound construction and not broken or bent props (these always come first) begins from correct ESC settings. Latest Betaflight versions are good enough to fly fine even with default PID/rate settings. Bad ESC settings however caused twitching motors, wobbly flight or like "meh" flight feeling. By trying and error found kinda acceptable ESC settings for me. However would like to know which settings exactly change what. Labels only are pretty cryptic for one who is not working in EE and electric motor building every day.
A really simple and informative video as always! Thank you.
Are there drawbacks to these changes?
To mirror @Slappy One's question: should we do it even if not encountering desynchs?
I would not personally.
I did it to all my quads and didn't have any issues yet but most of them desync while flying if I roll hard or make abrupt moves. Haven't had any issues since I switched them all to .125
Cheers Mark!! i was somtimes getting random desync's when catching a fast roll. Im using Diatone Mamba 6s 40a 8bit blheli s esc with Iflight XingE 2306, just got thru 2 packs of sbangy flipping & flopping everywhere to try make a desync happen but it seems all good now(fingers crossed)
Xing E have uneven magnet causing desync i have same problem with those motors
@@gamerpro6205 I did find a tiny ding in my front left motor & this could be my issue. I just had 2 spare motors arrive yesterday but I haven't changed out that motor yet, probably over the weekend.
My problem is extremely random, for instance out of the last 10packs it's only happened twice.
How much does yours happen?
So here I am commenting a month later, IM NOT having extremely random de-sync's anymore 😃
I still have the same motors & FC & ESC.
I was updating Betaflight to a newer version & when I went into the CLI for my dump I noticed there was some errors that came up in Red (probably should have snapped a pic so I'd remember what they were but I didn't 😬)
Once I updated BF firmware I went into cli again & there was no errors.
Since having the newer version & no errors I have not experienced any extremely random de-sync's & the quad flys better now.
Hey Mark, I am sorry to bother you constantly, just wanted to ask one quick question. You remember my crash (that video link below I posted the other day)... I've checked BLHeli_32 yesterday and noticed PWM Frequency was set to 96 kHz for some reason. All my other custom 5" quads are set to 24 kHz (all in this class of components). Could that be a source of some problems? Yesterday, I set it to 24 kHz on this "crash-quad" too, and I applied your BF preset for 5" with GoPro. Quad flies beautifully, I don't know if it's going to crash again, have to do some more testing. But I am so interested to know if this PWM Frequency plays some significant role in all this. Before, when it was crashing, I'd notice motor sound gets weird just before the crash... it's like I'm changing the throttle value, but almost like in 20% steps, abruptly, not smooth at all... like 20% throttle, straight jump to 40%, then to 60%, 80% etc. Thank you so much for trying to help me, greatly appreciated.
Thank you you fixed my problem.
How I can synchronize my ESC if when I plug the battery its makes 2 bips and after the last beep? I understood from JB that 2 ESC are de-syncronize. Its making like bib bib bip, bip bip bip and after bip...bip..bip.
That must be why i just desync'd in a neighbors tall bush tree and on my driveway , i turned new quad to 3.5% idle for first time flying it and don't know if demag comp on high or startup power on low or not but time to see . I'll start using 5% as my base idle. Not sure if cold tempature 12deg. can increase chance of desyncs but probably not.
I was getting insane death rolls at like 7% throttle. I made the changes you suggested to the dmag and ramp up and im all set. I was tired of blowing my props up.
so did your death roll problems disappear?
I had twice in Blheli 32 esc !
A bit late to the party but I'm wondering how setting ramp up power affects the performance of the powertrain? Just going off of the name, does this reduce the power delivered to the motor the when it gets a command to increase RPM?
It doesn't. It is only used to kick the motor to start rotating. Is it really be called Kick Force
@@uavtech ok thanks for clarifying that one! :D
Hmm, I read Oscar Liang article about BLHeli_32 settings and he wrote "A slightly higher rampup power can benefit your drone as it pushes the motor harder when it’s trying to gain RPM (faster acceleration), giving you more responsive and powerful feel (...)". Now I'm confused :/ Is it only for initial kick on startup or acceleration of the motor in general?
Going through this right now on a fresh build.. only does it when I roll. Did the changes you showed.. charging a few packs to go try it out.. fingers crossed lol
Good luck!! Hope it works.
Does it only goes when you roll to a specific side?
@@Brunmed yes.. to the left
@@uavtech still doing it.. soo weird... Thing flies amazing.. until I roll.. then it just goes limp.. almost like it disarms. Not a death spiral or anything.
@@WrongWayFPV I'm thinking it's a broken winding in one of the motors. Give it a look just to be sure.
We appreciate you man, thanks!
Hello i tried to connect to all the blheli configurator and it said that it can not read it. My drone is meteor75 pro
Thank God for people like you! I've been trying to figure this out for months now and finally think I have the answer. Just tested it out on my Crux and it hasn't happened again. It happens on almost all my quads though. Could it be something else causing all of them to desync like this. I don't mess with the settings in betaflight or blheli besides the basic stuff. Reverse motors and now this start up power. The wierd thing is after testing 3 batteries I went to do the 4th and my crux won't power up. Not even a light comes on. I plug it in to beta flight and it works. Even the motors work when I plug in the battery and test it through beta flight. Thinking is the 5v regulator... Any idea of why it's now not working?
Yeah, could be the 5v reg. Get out your propes and test 5v anf ground on battery. If that is good, test 3.3v and Gnd. The MCU, gyro, etc... run on 3.3v power
@@uavtech ok I'll check them out. What do you think could be causing all my quads to desync while I'm flying. Is it do to my flying technique? I did a lot of hard turns rolls and flips. I can't figure out what caused them all to be like this...
Thanks, man. I was flying an older quad that did a “roll of death,” but one from which is was somehow able to recover (had been flying two mistakes high). Unfortunately the flash memory was full, so I don’t have the BB log. I’ll obviously need to do another flight and see if I can induce this event again while logging is active, but do you have a suggestion about how I can tell if the root of the problem is an ESC vs a motor?
Unknown. But every time i have seen it is the ESC. You can figure out what arm it is and swap around motors if you want to verify.
Thx UAVTech!
It seems this method doesn't work for smaller or banged up motors? I'm having a lot of desyncs for my 0805 11,000KV motors (crashed for a few times), changed Startup Power to 0.125, and some motors refuse to start on the bench.
I went with 0.25, gonna test flight soon.
How did it go for you, I also have a similar build doing the same thing, did you fix it?
Thanks
I had my 4 inch in 15A limit and my drone kept desych. Took while to relize to turn the Amp limits off
What would the number in bluejay be for startup
Seems this is why my 5" fell from air 2 times at last weekend during hard turns and punches. Killed two 6S batteries on both impacts :( No BF logs unfortunately, because FC memory was already full. At second time FC reset happened. Probably due to voltage spike caused by too high startup power.
Bravo et merci pour toutes les vidéos instructives. J'ai une question : j 'ai un quad 3 pouces 6S, crossfire, Vista, sur lequel j'ai voulu flasher les ESC (en BLHeli s) sous blue Jay avec esc-configurator pour avoir accès au RPM filter et bi directional Dshot. Bref, je flashe, c’est ok sauf qu’en reconnectant à BF j’ai un taux d’erreurs qui monte anormalement sur un moteur. alors je fais la procédure inverse : je flashe à nouveau en BLHeli S et là c’est la catastrophe : les moteurs 2 et 4 ne sont plus reconnus du tout ! Et pourtant dans BF, chaque moteur tourne normalement et dans le bon sens... je ne sais plus quoi faire. Aurais-tu une astuce à tout hasard ? Merci par avance et encore bravo pour tes vidéos ! 👍👍
Essayez d'enregistrer votre configuration dans BF, puis de revenir à BF 4.2 ou 4.1 pour que BLHeli_S reconnaisse. Notez que vous pouvez également revenir à BLHeli_S sur le site Web esc-configurator.com ou simplement exécuter le micrologiciel BlueJay ESC SANS activer DSHOT bidirectionnel.
Drone falls from the sky.
Desync or power loss?
How to check blackbox logs?
thank you
I got one quad idle way too low for weight.. Falls out the sky on zero throttle. I keep forgetting to fix it haha
a quad falling out of the sky on zero throttle is a good thing. please don't "fix" this...
If you want to know more about why .125 is a good value for startup power, look up SiieeFPV's video "Exploring startup power" from 3 years ago
Yup. A GREAT video on the subject.
@@uavtech My comment was aimed towards random folks browsing the comments, I was sure you were aware of it 😅
@@reptethetetlen Random guy here - thx for the reference! Was revealing to watch!
Thank you sir!
Thanks great video
Do you maybe have a suggestion what to set the minimum startup power to with Bluejay firmware? there are different units there (default is like 1025 to 1100)? I just had a motor desync when testing pid tune with rapidly reversing stick motion and I'm not sure how to prevent it in future.
OK, so you adjusted DMag compensation in blheli 32 but not in blheli s??? I have an 8bit esc so I’m using blheli s, dropped start up power to .125, do I also need to change dmag to high???
demag to high may help it recover from desync, but will not help prevent desync.
I have a similar problem with mine but when I abruptly full throttle it felt like one of the motor stops and it twitches and it recovers after a second
Thanks for this man!
Any suggestions if it continues to happen after you've done all this?
Replace ESC or Motor.
tks pelo vídeo !!! good job
I'm having this happen on one of my X-Class quads with APD 80a esc's, and It's driving me crazy. It only happens on the left rear motor, mainly during a flip or punch out. The left rear of the quad just drops. It's already caused me to crash and break a total of 6 arms, and nearly destroying one of the MAD Polar 5215 motors. Getting too expensive to keep trying. Any suggestions with APD Esc's? I've never had this happen on my other rig with iFlight X80-80amp blHeli 32 esc's and cheap 4814 motors.
I'm having this issue with some of my fl1 race quads. The h7 ones are fine and the one with millivolt 20x20 and hw 20x20 esc this worked. But the one with revoltosd and hw 60 amp is still doing it. It recovers but still does it when you get on the throttle hard. Can't get it to go away. Gonna try another fc and harness see if that helps. The esc is brand new
thanks thhis really helped
New individual esc's, motors. Tried your tips still dsync . Maybe bad fc. It's pretty old clracing aio
Excellent thank you 💯⚡⚡⚡👍✈️
Cool frame. What is it?
One question though ! Once my motor dysyncs , can I reuse it again . Once it started to desyncs it started doing death roll in my every flight
It is an ESC issue. Not motor. Yes. I have used ESCs for years on 0.125 that desynced on 0.5 all the time.
@@uavtech thnx man , I’ll now fire up my blheli suite and makes changes as you have talked in the video .
Thank you very much. What I want to know is, if there are any drawbacks to those changes? Like less power?
No. Start Force maybe for going from motor dead stop to some % of throttle, but your motors should never be stalled (dead stop) in flight.
I am so close to selling my quads....I put bluejay on all of them but both my 5 inch quads are literally deathrolling every time I try to roll them....nothing is working and I am not throwing more money at them
I'm getting this happen as soon as I blip the throttle. Not always the same motor though. Went from bluejay back to blheli and it still happens.
Raised rpm to 7% lowered ramp up, turned off rpm filtering. Def seems worse on 4s than 3s although I've only tested in my ky kitchen 🤣
Happening on betafpv 1106 4500kv with 3inch props. Could they be over propped? I only bought them cuz they were cheap. Also running diatone mamba ministack
Would it be wise to simply make these changes in the initial setup and just make these your default settings in BLHeli ?
I don't think it hurts anything.
@@uavtech thanks Mark
Brilliant thanks
Amazing content!! Congrats!! ;)))
Great video I'm running 4s motors on 6s by scaling them down in betaflight will this work and will I still be able to use both 4s and 6s with the start up power lower
How would these values translate to Bluejay configurator? I have minimum startup power and maximum start up power sliders rather than a static value. Right now, they are set at 1030 and 1110 and I am getting a desync. Thanks in advance!
Thanks dude that was really confusing me I was at friends house and it embarrassingly fell out of the sky. LOL
Hi! I have some problems, when i use my 4s lipo on a 6s quad the quad fly normally, but when a switch to 6s lipo, the quad falling down with no reason, and dont know what to do.
Whelp, do these things outlined in the video. Also, try 48khz vs. 24khz.
Love this channel.
Tried this with a Tekko 32 45Amp ESC on 6S. With a value of 12% the motors wouldn't spin when armed. Bumped it up to 15%. Gotta go test flight to see if it helps.
Two test flights and all seems well. Strange though as this just started happening after a few months with this quad. Maybe a sign the esc is going bad?
what about bluejay? what params need to change to fix this problem?
I'm looking for this too, did you found the solution yet?
It's called ROD (Roll of Death).
Bingo!
You can't change rampup power on BLHeli-S quads?
change Start Force instead.
Can any of these setting burn motors? My motors are cool after a full pack but every 3rd session I smoke a stator. usually on a hard maneuver or startup.
Nope. Could be signs of a bad ESC if you are having desyncs on default ESC settings and now burning motors too.
I have been chasing this on my 7" with INAV. It would fall out of the sky when testing return-to-home (maybe because the FC does a sudden throttle input). Flashed back to Betaflight and it still happens on hard throttle punches. Maybe this will fix it... with those big motors and long arms it could be an expensive troubleshoot. 😬
Fingers crossed
@@uavtech so far so good... took it out for a test and you can see it dropping an arm or twitching occasionally, so it seems to still be desyncing at times but it recovers. This thing has individual ESCs, maybe there is some subtle wiring problem, but for now at least it flies and doesn't just do the roll of death. Thanks for the useful tips 🖖
I fixed mine changing six fets on my esc
ok i got a 2750kv motors on 6s, the only way i could stop it so far is to reduce the power thingy to 80%, in case it matters, when i get full throttle dsyncs, my copter would recover before hitting the ground.
do you think ur methods will work for me? or are my motors too big for 6s? Please help!! :)
Hey I had this question does racewire with led aka motor led pcb does affect rpm filtering or anything because it takes some amps from motor line of specific two wires and not from third one
I would guess not. The RPM is based on the ESCs Back EMF detection of the motor, which seems to be ok with race wire of folks would get desyncs.
@@uavtech with led one's as well
Yeah, i have not heard that LED ones cause huge desync issues, so RPM should be reading fine.
I have a 5-inch quad with 1950KV in 6S, and sometimes when I do flips, I experience loss of control for a fraction of a second, but the drone recovers and won't crash. In blackbox it seems to be a desync, but the motor number 4 is which always goes up to 100%, is this a desync sign?
Yes
but how to do it on bluejay?
Why do Kiss Esc’s never desync and you never / can’t change any settings? Is kiss esc running better firmware ?
They just burn up instead. :-P. [Jk]
Hi, and what about a 360° roll ( without falling ) or 180° happening just after a flip on a 5" ?
Blackbox showing 2 motors at 100%...
If the quad falls from the sky, desync. If not, could just be motor saturation. Controller calling for more than 100% of the motor, which the motor cannot deliver.
@@uavtech Thank you but please what is motor saturation, and can it be solved by the same way ( rampup, dmag)? Or pid ?
Please d'ont tell me it could be esc or gyro, I just changed the stack...
And get your vtx on vbatt if it can take it.
All well and good but WHY does lowering startup power of the ESC fix this? what is that actually doing, and why is the default not 0.125? Surely there is a tradoff somewhere or they would just ship at 0.125 not 0.5, right? What is this actually doing that fixes it?
It is the kick to get the ESC started. Too much kick is causing a bad Back EMF reading. So lowering the kick helps. The default use to be 0.125 back in the day.
Is that just because this is a really high test quad? I've tried changing to recommended blheli settings before only to smoke a motor or esc randomly after a few days. Coincidence?
Yes