1. we start with i=85/90 and P=5 --> it freaks out 2. we lower i=40; with P=5 remaining --> it flies but wobble city 3. we raise P=30 with i=40 --> wobbles are gone 4. finally, we have he full tune with i-terms back up at 85/90, higher P-terms for even better performance, and raised D-gain now to control the oscillation of the higher P-gains. Note: P and D together need to be as high as they can be for the best prop wash performance.
I keep coming back to this video every time I try to tune by feel. I think this is the single greatest video for explaining what's happening to a quad that's out of tune and what it will do and what to do to fix it.
I really appreciate your videos. I’ve watch almost all tuning, and black box videos at least a dozen times and am slowly grasping it all. Thanks to you, I’ve been recognized on multiple occasions as a top tuner😁 Thank you again, I look forward to more tuning and black box tips as firmware updates continue to release. 🙏 BlippyFPV
That’s a great way of thinking about it. It’s very common for people to see any oscillation and immediately go to D. This should clarify what’s really needed. Would be nice to have a graphic here of the error and oscillation difference for I vs P. I oscillation is usually
This is definitely more critical on 3" super light quads. I just spent a couple hours tuning. Betaflight 4.2.4 pids where way too much for my 6s 3". Another excellent informative video. Thanks Mark!
I really like your explanation, a new way to think of it... I tended not to think of I-term as a source of oscillation but I totally see it in your example.
I’m not even 3 minutes into your video & I already know I’m going to watch it like 10 times. I get a better understanding that way 👍👍👍👍👍👍👌Great idea setting the quad PID’s off like that. We can actually see what the PI& D are doing!!!!!! 👌👌👌👌👌👌😋😋👌
Thank you so much for this one. disclaimer: I am new to building drones. Also, I don't think I understand PID controller all that well. I've been struggling to get my Quad to fly. Been through a lot of documents and videos. My drone would wobble so much that I couldn't really make it fly/hover. This video has been a turning point for me, where I am now able to fly the drone vs not at all! So happy that I am now able to fly the drone.
No Blackbox unfortunately. It's an Iflight Sussex f4 1s whoop board, mob6 19k motors, crs fire, it's a little porky at 27gr dry. But the I term is at 100 across the board right now, going to drop it to 90 and try again. After I get some batteries charged.
Hi just what I needed but need to repair my FC first. Need to resolder my battery cables 🤦🏻♂️ When I’m ready, I’ll study this. Take care & happy fly’n 🤓😉😘
I just tried your preset on my 5" and I am blown away bro. I thought I was pretty good at tuning. I live the cli commands. Only thing I did different was my stick response slider. Yours is way up their. Lol 😂 thank you so much bro I'm going to buy you a beer right now
@@look2christ777 here's a link to the presets. Remember only do bh the filter settings if you have a 32bit esc and turn on bidirectional dshot theuavtech.com/presets/
REally nice explanation. I got two questions: What about feed forward? What is that? And what about the rates (s-rate, rc-rate, expo-rate)? Are the rates fully turned off? No filters, just PID and that's it? I'm new to this..Sorry for asking
Transtec laser HD :-) Love Transtec Laser frames! Great quality carbon, not really T700, but still amazing! (be aware - motor mounts are too week, use 4 screws there if you want to bush it). Only issue is props in view. Surprised how well it flue with D term 5!!
ive seen it stated that P and D are for "high"-frequency errors and I is for low. I have been able to eliminate wiggles in my large 55 lb drone by merely adjusting I term. tradeoff seems to be steady state error (pitch in my case) vs wiggles, but this error is still acceptable. of course what makes frequencies "high" or "low" is dependent on your setup...
it is always D > P > i in relation to oscillation control high to low. Also check out the video at theuavtech.com/tuning The Key Relationships you need to know.
Hello Mark,I hope you can help me. I fly my 5 inch copter with the Supafly Smooth Medium preset. It flies excellently. Now I have built a 3.5 inch Pirat Lil Matey 2 frame with 2850kv motors and SpeedyBee f7mini stack with 6s Lipo. VTX is the DJI O3 air unit. I chose the 3/4 inch Supafly as the preset. I now have the following problem. The copter wobbles when flying forwards. I don't know how I can tune the wobble away with the PID settings. Unfortunately I don't have any experience with pidtoolbox. All screws are tight, the cables are laid out neatly. The propellers are undamaged. Do you have a recommendation for me as to how I should adjust the PID and in what ratio to make the copter quieter? It would be great if you could help me. Rocksteady does smooth out the footage, but I would like to fly without wobbles in the live image. best regards and thank you in advance for your support. Best regards, Sascha
I will try this method instead of the traditionnal "PID" method. I tried many settings on my heewing f01 but there is still some wobbling following the pitch axis.
Integral (delayed response) P (proportional [to the error] response) derivative (quick response) they must be adjusted to fit the inertial mass in order to be fast but not oscillate and to correct also the minimum difference with respect to the aim.
Hi UAV. So you said, to simplify: If I term is high (and P is low) you'll get slow oscillations, increase P term to dampen that. But then you'll get fast oscillations, increase D term to cover that. But why not just decrease I in the first place, it means it's high compared to others, right?
You can. It is all the relationships between the terms. Once you have the balances correct, you want to keep them locked and push all the gains up (Master Multiplier slider) to adjust how fast the PID loop reacts to outside influences (prop wash or wind).
does a perfect tuning with the black box increase or decrease the flight time? I noticed that by increasing the PID a lot I have a greater absorption from the battery and the drone tends to have much less strength and is woody. Probably wrong tuning and bad tracking of setpoint increase corrections and reduce battery in short time?. Probably wrong tuning and bad tracking of setpoint increase corrections and consume battery in short time?
Hello. I just built my first dji tinywhoop. I just want to ask why it wobbles when i fly close to the ground like 3-5nches distance? Can the PID fix it or is it ground effect? Thank you.
why is the I term and P term different for roll, pitch and yaw specifically? Cant we just set yaw the same as we set the other two? like 40 instead of 90?
Yaw is not a thrust axis (no prop blowing air in the Yaw direction). So it is slower to react and relies a lot on i-gain to keep the movement sustained. For Yaw, you want nice high P and i-gain generally. But if a light quad, too much P can oscillate. Moment of Inertia is typically different on Roll vs. Pitch and hence the gains are a little different. Pitch typically takes a little more damping (more D) and the gains in general (P, i, & D) can be higher on Pitch.
There kind of is between the Master and P and D Gain slider. Brain3D: www.brain3d.co/collections/gopro-mounts-gopro-protection/products/adjustable-angle-universal-gopro-session-mount?variant=25919723344
@@uavtech awesome, thanks! Love the Laser HD frame. I just got a Transtec Beetle 2.5” with air unit and it came with stock BF 4.2 pids. It’s a heavier 2.5” and has a lot of jello even in a hover. What pids do you think I should adjust? I set up RPM filtering and I have the filters all the way to 2.0 but that did not help the Jell-O at all.
i need help on tuning my 2s 4" quad. it is little bit overweight but flies stable. when i try to record the flight, i continuously experience wobble on pitch axis. it acts like it is driving on a bumpy road. what ever i do, even changing controller, wobble is always there. since camera has no EIS, it reflects all small amplitutde slow oscillations on video clips. i adjusted, pids with patience with hours of trying, , i adjusted filters, blackbox is almost vibration free, fc is on soft mounts etc. i am using old PWM esc board from aeesparrow square drone. This dron is actually a wifi drone but i converted it to fly with my own transmitter and a proper f4 controller. its original version was almost vibration free indoors ( with its primitive controller). what could be the reason?
Do you have suggestions for videos to start with? I get tripped up since beta flight keeps changing. It’s hard to tell what’s relevant to learn, and what isn’t. I hope that makes sense. TY.
I was getting some wobbles everytime I throttle up passed 50%, I drive myself nuts trying to fix it on BF, gave up, tried EMU flight and it's now gone, but what would cause that sort of wobble during a quick punch out?
Hello. I recently bought a Crux35 v2 crazyf411 20a aio elrs uart and od mid high throttle manouvers it has this inefficent brrrr oscillations. That one hasnt got a blackbox. Im a beginner. What can I do?
hey i crashed my drone into a tree and it was left there in the rain for about 6 days, i replaced everything except for the FC and ive been getting extremly hot motors at hover ever since i rescured it; i didnt touch the pids or filters before the crash and my motors never got hot. is there a high chance that my gryo is just damaged? the drone is mechanically fine.
@@uavtech it doesnt fly too smooth but it does rolls flips fine. im not the best at analysing black box data but there is alot of high frequency squigly lines (at hover) in all axes. i lock tighted every screw on the frame, and after the crash i replaced literally everything except for the frame and FC. Its also worth mentioning that the motors do this behaviour arbitrarily, there is no pattern what so ever; i.e. it would actually fly alright (medium to hot motors) but then after i come back and land to swap lipos it suddenly decides it wants to make a whailing noise and the motors get so hot that u can smell the coils burning it is anything but a pleasant smell.
So I have had a really bad oscillation problem on my new 10" drone, I have tried adjusting the I term and P term and no matter what combination of numbers I do it still slowly oscillates and gets worse until I end up crashing it, any ideas what could cause it?
If it is a slow wobble, it is too high of i-Term to P-term. You can drop i-Term to 0 to see if it persists. The other thing could be Motor Saturation. Are you using 24Khz PWM and how big are the motors? 10" props are a lot to spin up/down. If you need more help, jump on my discord and tag me. Logging it would be good.
If you do not have i-Term Clamping, (i-Term Relax) and/or a way to give advanced push to the motors on sharp stick moves (Feedforward), you have to artificially push down i-term to compensate or you get i-term boumceback.
Hi...thank you for this Newb question...how do you know where to start? If I build a quad and the FC has the latest firmware does that flash include a 'stock' PID tuning to work from? If not, what values would I enter to start the tune from?
Stock should be ok. You can hone in a little further then on theuavtech.com/presets and if you want to eventually tune, check out theuavtech.com/tuning
What would cause P, and I fast ossilations on yaw? I'm dealing with this on one quad, and I just cannot seam to get it to go away, no matter what I do with p(45)and i(80) ff120, since there is no D on yaw.
Hello, I am new to your channel as recommended by Joshua bardwell amongst other flyers.. I have built several quads since I started fpv back in august of this year and so far, everything but two seem to fly pretty good, but I know there’s room for improvement.. I haven’t been too worried about since I’m still learning to fly better, however, my repertoire of quads is growing and none of them have more than a stock tune.. like I mentioned before, two of my quads, actually 3, have some tuning issues that need to be worked out and I would also like to learn to tune the others beyond a stock tune.. I see that you seem to have a plethora of tuning videos, and so does bardwell, but here in lies the problem, I’m very new to the tuning aspect as in I haven’t done it yet, and every video I’ve seen so far is of much older versions of betaflight than the current that I have been using.. this only compiles the the confusion because I cannot see on my screen, what is being shown on yours or anyone else’s screens.. as a complete noob to tuning, is there a video you would recommend to watch first..? I have read an article by Oscar liang to get familiar with PID, and I’ve watched a handful of videos, but like I said, everything thus far, is from older versions than what is out now.. I’m still trying to understand PID and filtering, not to mention black box.. lol.. please help..! I actually started to try tuning one of my recent builds yesterday but stopped where I was at, because I have no idea what im doing and before I go any further with it, I want to have a better understanding.. please and thank you..!
@@uavtech is this the same guide I saw you use in some of your videos you were tuning the 6s quad that someone sent you..? It looks like, just confirming..
Watching ur videos all over. I got a drone (lightweight 5" long range low power) I went to iNAV and not wont fly on 6S. at first couldnt even hover bad fast oscillation. Lowered everything to default and not my BF tune i put into iNAV. I upped gyro filtering too. I have no vibrations it looks like. But at higher throttle going up it oscillates bad. Fast oscillations like it feels like it wants to run away. been slowly raising D term now. BF PIDS were like P58 I87 D42 INAV started at BF then went to Default P40 I30 D23. Increased D to 30. it helped a lil. Now increased to 40. see if it helps. Hoping I can get this flying good in iNAV want to use it for long range in TN. Roadtrip from NY to Tn just to fly this drone long range lol. It did fly fine in beginning on 4S. Havent tried again Wish you lived near by. Pay you to fix it lol actually reading description ur only hour and a half from me. Im in Wappingers falls NY
Sounds like noise issue. Join the Patreon and throw up a log.on with raw noise recorded (debug = Gyro_Scaled in BF or Gyro in iNAV) and we can take a look. HD or DVR helps too.
So for each quad size, can it have same I gain value.. Or bigger/smaller quad will have lower/higer I value? Based on what? Power to weight ratio or just the AUW of the quad..
I has a wide window. The best way I know how to tune it is you want it strong enough that I-term doesn't wind up a bunch on any given axis in flight to compensate for a low gain. For that, I look at the logs.
I'm trying to tune a fpv wing plane, and thought I'd refer back to this. In Inav I tried to autotune it but was having all sort of bumpiness, especially in windy conditions. I upped the P term a lot and it seemed to help, but after I did a roll I got pitch oscillations and almost crashed. Any idea what the correction for a plane for this is? Should I raise the I term which is very low now, or more D? Does increasing the D term super bad effect the motor like a quad? Maybe it would make the servos go crazy or something and burn out instead?
Like a quad, if the D term is too high, it will cause servo oscillation. The D-term oscillation will occur if your airspeed is too high. Check out this video and the linked video in the description: ruclips.net/video/PTY_fCa_aQE/видео.htmlsi=rubUSu2W6V4xYUug
ruclips.net/video/zu9J8nieC6Y/видео.htmlsi=bSzgX3XV8ujjbR7h&t=209 At the referenced spot in the above video, you can see an example of D-Term oscillation. I think that is what you had happen in Pitch from what it sounds like. So in that case, lower the D-gains. BUT IF you only raised, P-term, then maybe you are experiencing a P-term oscillation as a result of the roll move. In that case, you need to lower P or raise D on the pitch axis.
How should the P term dampen the I term? The P term is, as it´s name suggests, proportional to the error. Large error gives large p value. The I term integrates the error, to eliminate the residual error left by the proportional nature of the P term. So as long as there is an error, the I term steadily grows, until it is strong enough, to get the error to 0, where it stops growing. In a normal control loop, the I term only starts to decrease once the error goes negative (overshoot), so it can integrate itself back to 0 or negative. But as long as the error is positive, P term and the steadily growing i term both work in the same direction. The p term only contradicts the i term, if you allready had the overshoot and the i term is still holds a positive value. That´s a bit like pushing someone over and just help him stand up afterwards...
Do you have any advice on how a 9” quad I.P.Ds should change compare to a 5”? What would you expect, and I will lower my rates too. But they aren’t that high, 600 ish
what if you turn off the pid (ipd) controller? that's how quads and tricopters started, with mixing in the tx but i haven't seen it done with modern precise esc's motors and reliable recievers
If you turn off the PID controller, it will just sit on the ground. You can do it. Just set all the gains to 0. You will have throttle, but that's it. Don't be close to the quad in trying this and keep on the disarm switch. Your stick inputs are NOT flying the motors. Your are flying the PID loop. It is flying the quad.
Really great video ,the first flight reminded me of my first quad(it flew like a cow!) and teaching myself how to tune.😃 Betaflight defaults are so good now I really struggle to notice that much of a difference in adjustments. I tend to get to a point were it's ok for me and fly it ,probably just compensate without realising?
Nice one! I use to tune the I alone by checking the quads reaction when going straight and punching the throttle. If a have a nose up in the punch i add I in pitch, if i have some angle taken in the roll axis i raise the I in roll. Usually this ends up in relatively high I values of about 80-90 ( the time that my P and D is arround 35-50). Should i try lowering at steps the I and see what happens?
Other FW has tried it, and it never worked well. I'm not saying it is impossible to get working great, but it would take a team to be very dedicated to it for probably a year or more to prefect and keep optimizing. It is not easy to detect a stepped response in a constant stream of data flow with no storage space and only 210Mhz process that is 80% utilized with flying the thing already. Even at 400Mhz (H7) that's not much for that kind of processing.
It is the DJI quad: store.dji.com/product/dji-digital-fpv-system?vid=83421 You can get all the components separately and build yourself. You don't need to get from DJI's store. They just have it there for folks first buying the FPV system to pick up a quad as well.
Watching this and the 10 inch patreon video really displays that moment of inertia. The 10 rolled fast and stopped fast but you could see it was working to stop. This 5 inch just stops.
@@uavtech Turned out to be a serial bus device problem. Once I deleted them from my device manager, it solved my problem. Now I have another problem, I have lost my RSSI signal in my radiomaster TX16S. Radiomaster has been a disaster for me. This is my 5th one. Worst radio on the market. Nothing but problems. Love your videos. Thanks.
1. we start with i=85/90 and P=5 --> it freaks out
2. we lower i=40; with P=5 remaining --> it flies but wobble city
3. we raise P=30 with i=40 --> wobbles are gone
4. finally, we have he full tune with i-terms back up at 85/90, higher P-terms for even better performance, and raised D-gain now to control the oscillation of the higher P-gains.
Note: P and D together need to be as high as they can be for the best prop wash performance.
I keep coming back to this video every time I try to tune by feel. I think this is the single greatest video for explaining what's happening to a quad that's out of tune and what it will do and what to do to fix it.
I really appreciate your videos. I’ve watch almost all tuning, and black box videos at least a dozen times and am slowly grasping it all. Thanks to you, I’ve been recognized on multiple occasions as a top tuner😁
Thank you again, I look forward to more tuning and black box tips as firmware updates continue to release. 🙏
BlippyFPV
That’s a great way of thinking about it. It’s very common for people to see any oscillation and immediately go to D. This should clarify what’s really needed. Would be nice to have a graphic here of the error and oscillation difference for I vs P. I oscillation is usually
This is definitely more critical on 3" super light quads. I just spent a couple hours tuning. Betaflight 4.2.4 pids where way too much for my 6s 3". Another excellent informative video. Thanks Mark!
Thanks for sharing!
@@uavtech your the best, im going to become a patron. You always help me no matter the question. I would love to give back. Always appreciated.
wow, i think one of the best PID explanation videos 👍🏻
I really like your explanation, a new way to think of it... I tended not to think of I-term as a source of oscillation but I totally see it in your example.
When I first got into this hobby it was PIDs. I like your explanation better. I will try this. IPD.
Completely reconceptualized tuning for me. Thank you
I’m not even 3 minutes into your video & I already know I’m going to watch it like 10 times.
I get a better understanding that way 👍👍👍👍👍👍👌Great idea setting the quad PID’s off like that. We can actually see what the PI& D are doing!!!!!! 👌👌👌👌👌👌😋😋👌
This tutorial saved me!
I had terrible wobble on my Betafpv 95x v3. New FC, props didn't help until I have changed the pids. Thanks UAV Tech!
Thanks for all you do for the FPV community!!
Bro that 7 inch preset worked perfect. Thank you so much
great video, frame swapped a cetus pro and had problems, your video helped me tune them right out, thanks for sharing
Thank you so much for this one.
disclaimer: I am new to building drones. Also, I don't think I understand PID controller all that well.
I've been struggling to get my Quad to fly. Been through a lot of documents and videos. My drone would wobble so much that I couldn't really make it fly/hover.
This video has been a turning point for me, where I am now able to fly the drone vs not at all!
So happy that I am now able to fly the drone.
Awesome!!
Check out: theuavtech.com/presets and theuavtech.com/tuning as well. :-)
You can remember this as “I need to P” 😂
Or I pee daily 🤣👍✌
I need to P, Dammn
I need to Pee, Dude
Great video with examples that made it so clear. I also appreciated you reverse orientation when spelling out PID. l can’t wait to watch more.
Thanks for this video. Made tuning so much easier and faster. All quads locked in now! LOL
The best PID explained video ever!!!
Thank you for linking this video for me in the Ciotti stream. Going to give this a try tomorrow, let you know how it goes.
If it still wobbles, let me know. Maybe log it? Does it have logging?
No Blackbox unfortunately. It's an Iflight Sussex f4 1s whoop board, mob6 19k motors, crs fire, it's a little porky at 27gr dry. But the I term is at 100 across the board right now, going to drop it to 90 and try again. After I get some batteries charged.
Thank you again. This video helped get my quad flying much much better, still not prefect but a little more tuning should do the trick.
now that's much easier to grasp , great stuff dude
Excellent video, helped me tune my wobbles so much it cannot fly quad into a smooth machine in only three battery packs.
Hi just what I needed but need to repair my FC first. Need to resolder my battery cables 🤦🏻♂️
When I’m ready, I’ll study this.
Take care & happy fly’n 🤓😉😘
I just tried your preset on my 5" and I am blown away bro. I thought I was pretty good at tuning. I live the cli commands. Only thing I did different was my stick response slider. Yours is way up their. Lol 😂 thank you so much bro I'm going to buy you a beer right now
That's awesome, where did you get the preset from? I need to try this!
@@look2christ777 here's a link to the presets. Remember only do bh the filter settings if you have a 32bit esc and turn on bidirectional dshot
theuavtech.com/presets/
What would the FPV world be like with out you?! Cheers Mark! You keep us all in the air.
REally nice explanation. I got two questions: What about feed forward? What is that? And what about the rates (s-rate, rc-rate, expo-rate)? Are the rates fully turned off? No filters, just PID and that's it? I'm new to this..Sorry for asking
I love the explanation at the beginning with the letters. Like Sesame Street for drone people.
I'm a plane guy but this was very interesting for me too! I wish you would work as a INAV Dev and fix their autotune :) keep it up!
Great explanation, a very simple way to remember and apply for best tuning, thanks for sharing
I swear I have to watch this every time I tune my drone to lock it in, I can't remember it all even though I'm tuning about a quad a month or so. lol
Transtec laser HD :-) Love Transtec Laser frames! Great quality carbon, not really T700, but still amazing! (be aware - motor mounts are too week, use 4 screws there if you want to bush it). Only issue is props in view.
Surprised how well it flue with D term 5!!
Your content ist master class. Video by video.
That was extremely helpful just like the rest of your content, great job!
Makes me want to tune my rtf quad lol....I have alot of propwash that I want to get rid of this was very informative 👌 ✌
Pretty interesting, Mark! Thanks a lot! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
You explain this the best thanks for doing these vids!
If you watch the tips of the props, they bounce when he punches throttle.
Yup, blade tips always move around in flight.
ive seen it stated that P and D are for "high"-frequency errors and I is for low. I have been able to eliminate wiggles in my large 55 lb drone by merely adjusting I term. tradeoff seems to be steady state error (pitch in my case) vs wiggles, but this error is still acceptable. of course what makes frequencies "high" or "low" is dependent on your setup...
it is always D > P > i
in relation to oscillation control high to low. Also check out the video at theuavtech.com/tuning
The Key Relationships you need to know.
@@uavtech thanks!
Hello Mark,I hope you can help me. I fly my 5 inch copter with the Supafly Smooth Medium preset. It flies excellently. Now I have built a 3.5 inch Pirat Lil Matey 2 frame with 2850kv motors and SpeedyBee f7mini stack with 6s Lipo. VTX is the DJI O3 air unit. I chose the 3/4 inch Supafly as the preset. I now have the following problem. The copter wobbles when flying forwards. I don't know how I can tune the wobble away with the PID settings. Unfortunately I don't have any experience with pidtoolbox. All screws are tight, the cables are laid out neatly. The propellers are undamaged. Do you have a recommendation for me as to how I should adjust the PID and in what ratio to make the copter quieter? It would be great if you could help me. Rocksteady does smooth out the footage, but I would like to fly without wobbles in the live image. best regards and thank you in advance for your support. Best regards, Sascha
As usual best explanation ever :)
Great video thank you for this. Is it the same protocol for fixed wing?
yes
I will try this method instead of the traditionnal "PID" method. I tried many settings on my heewing f01 but there is still some wobbling following the pitch axis.
wobbles. Reduce I-term in relation to P.
Love this! Please do more videos like this!
big help as usual....also like the outro music
Great stuff. Very educational. Thanks for sharing.
Big thank you 👍🏻
iPD
Good tuning tips Mark, thanks a lot!
Hell yeah im just starting to try tuning and this helped me out so much thank you dude
holy f*ck thankyou so much, i could never understand this stuff and you just made it so easy for me and saved me breaking my quad
Thank you very much and as always a very clear explanation. Would be nice to see how to tune for I-term
check out Patreon video.
nice approach i am gonna test it out, will it work as well even on emuflight?
Of course. Emu is 99% Betaflight.
Integral (delayed response) P (proportional [to the error] response) derivative (quick response)
they must be adjusted to fit the inertial mass in order to be fast but not oscillate and to correct also the minimum difference with respect to the aim.
Yup.
Hi UAV. So you said, to simplify:
If I term is high (and P is low) you'll get slow oscillations, increase P term to dampen that. But then you'll get fast oscillations, increase D term to cover that.
But why not just decrease I in the first place, it means it's high compared to others, right?
You can. It is all the relationships between the terms. Once you have the balances correct, you want to keep them locked and push all the gains up (Master Multiplier slider) to adjust how fast the PID loop reacts to outside influences (prop wash or wind).
@@uavtech Would increasing PID Loop frequency do the same as master gain?
@@sashabagdasarow497 no. sampling rate vs. gains strength are very different things.
Is this order of thinking only appropriate to certain system responses or general in nature?
General. This is just how it works for anything controlled by a PID loop.
does a perfect tuning with the black box increase or decrease the flight time? I noticed that by increasing the PID a lot I have a greater absorption from the battery and the drone tends to have much less strength and is woody.
Probably wrong tuning and bad tracking of setpoint increase corrections and reduce battery in short time?.
Probably wrong tuning and bad tracking of setpoint increase corrections and consume battery in short time?
Likely reducing because it makes the motors work harder to keep things perfectly following the sticks (less wash, wobble, going off course).
Great explanation thanks, I’ve got low throttle oscillations, on a 3” what advice for adjusting pids to help with that? Tbanks
Reduce ESC PWM and/or i-Gain.
wich flight controller u are using???
All different ones.
@@uavtech i am using omnibus f4 v3s
Its make me crazy its oscillate just when i landing the quad. (low throttle)
Great explanation! Thanks very much for this! 🙂
Hello. I just built my first dji tinywhoop. I just want to ask why it wobbles when i fly close to the ground like 3-5nches distance? Can the PID fix it or is it ground effect? Thank you.
It is probably ground effect. Yes, PIDs can make this better. Apply my Whoop preset tiny.cc/presets
why is the I term and P term different for roll, pitch and yaw specifically?
Cant we just set yaw the same as we set the other two? like 40 instead of 90?
Yaw is not a thrust axis (no prop blowing air in the Yaw direction). So it is slower to react and relies a lot on i-gain to keep the movement sustained. For Yaw, you want nice high P and i-gain generally. But if a light quad, too much P can oscillate.
Moment of Inertia is typically different on Roll vs. Pitch and hence the gains are a little different. Pitch typically takes a little more damping (more D) and the gains in general (P, i, & D) can be higher on Pitch.
@@uavtech Thanks a lot really appreciate your kind help:)
Big thanks! Subscribed 😉
This was great! thanks a lot man
Thank you! I have always wondered, why is there no slider for the I term only? Also, where did you get the go pro mount for your frame?
Brain3d has all tge mounts
There kind of is between the Master and P and D Gain slider.
Brain3D: www.brain3d.co/collections/gopro-mounts-gopro-protection/products/adjustable-angle-universal-gopro-session-mount?variant=25919723344
@@uavtech awesome, thanks! Love the Laser HD frame.
I just got a Transtec Beetle 2.5” with air unit and it came with stock BF 4.2 pids. It’s a heavier 2.5” and has a lot of jello even in a hover. What pids do you think I should adjust? I set up RPM filtering and I have the filters all the way to 2.0 but that did not help the Jell-O at all.
Wow! Thank you for sharing. Learn new ideas to tune kwads.
i need help on tuning my 2s 4" quad. it is little bit overweight but flies stable. when i try to record the flight, i continuously experience wobble on pitch axis. it acts like it is driving on a bumpy road. what ever i do, even changing controller, wobble is always there. since camera has no EIS, it reflects all small amplitutde slow oscillations on video clips. i adjusted, pids with patience with hours of trying, , i adjusted filters, blackbox is almost vibration free, fc is on soft mounts etc. i am using old PWM esc board from aeesparrow square drone. This dron is actually a wifi drone but i converted it to fly with my own transmitter and a proper f4 controller. its original version was almost vibration free indoors ( with its primitive controller). what could be the reason?
Do you have suggestions for videos to start with? I get tripped up since beta flight keeps changing. It’s hard to tell what’s relevant to learn, and what isn’t. I hope that makes sense.
TY.
PID tuning is a.constant. check out theuavtech.com/tuning
@@uavtech I’m reading now. TYVM!
I was getting some wobbles everytime I throttle up passed 50%, I drive myself nuts trying to fix it on BF, gave up, tried EMU flight and it's now gone, but what would cause that sort of wobble during a quick punch out?
Gains too high or needed more filtering.
Hello. I recently bought a Crux35 v2 crazyf411 20a aio elrs uart and od mid high throttle manouvers it has this inefficent brrrr oscillations. That one hasnt got a blackbox. Im a beginner. What can I do?
hey i crashed my drone into a tree and it was left there in the rain for about 6 days, i replaced everything except for the FC and ive been getting extremly hot motors at hover ever since i rescured it; i didnt touch the pids or filters before the crash and my motors never got hot. is there a high chance that my gryo is just damaged? the drone is mechanically fine.
Hard to say. If it is flying smooth and doing fast and slope flips and rolls fine, I would say NO. If not, YES.
@@uavtech it doesnt fly too smooth but it does rolls flips fine. im not the best at analysing black box data but there is alot of high frequency squigly lines (at hover) in all axes. i lock tighted every screw on the frame, and after the crash i replaced literally everything except for the frame and FC. Its also worth mentioning that the motors do this behaviour arbitrarily, there is no pattern what so ever; i.e. it would actually fly alright (medium to hot motors) but then after i come back and land to swap lipos it suddenly decides it wants to make a whailing noise and the motors get so hot that u can smell the coils burning it is anything but a pleasant smell.
i still get mid throttle oscillation after RPM filtering bf 4.2 . What should I start twitching around ?
Try 48k pwm with RPM enabled and Dyn Notch max of 600hz.
@@uavtech in blheli suite ????
@@DronemanfromNepal yup.
@@uavtech thnx man !!! now where to enable dyn notch to 600 hz . thnx again
@@DronemanfromNepal in Filters Tab. At bottom left. Set min to 125 and Max to 600.
Thank you, excellent info.
Interesting.. definetly I'll try this concept of tuning.. :)
Can i get a bit rid of propwash at my quad its a betafpv v3.. I feel it has really a lot of..
Raise P and D Gain slider.
So I have had a really bad oscillation problem on my new 10" drone, I have tried adjusting the I term and P term and no matter what combination of numbers I do it still slowly oscillates and gets worse until I end up crashing it, any ideas what could cause it?
If it is a slow wobble, it is too high of i-Term to P-term. You can drop i-Term to 0 to see if it persists. The other thing could be Motor Saturation. Are you using 24Khz PWM and how big are the motors? 10" props are a lot to spin up/down. If you need more help, jump on my discord and tag me. Logging it would be good.
What about yaw? My quad wobbles all over the place when i give it full yaw. Can I use the same technique used for roll and pitch?
Yes, just move back one term. For Yaw, just tune P and I.
@@uavtech Thanks for the quick reply. Will give it go after watching some more of your videos. :)
@@1CBRFireblade1000rr q²ww
how come on ardupilot pid defaults the I terms are so low? If this applies too for ardupilot
If you do not have i-Term Clamping, (i-Term Relax) and/or a way to give advanced push to the motors on sharp stick moves (Feedforward), you have to artificially push down i-term to compensate or you get i-term boumceback.
Hi...thank you for this
Newb question...how do you know where to start?
If I build a quad and the FC has the latest firmware does that flash include a 'stock' PID tuning to work from?
If not, what values would I enter to start the tune from?
Stock should be ok. You can hone in a little further then on theuavtech.com/presets and if you want to eventually tune, check out theuavtech.com/tuning
@@uavtech Thank you.
What would cause P, and I fast ossilations on yaw? I'm dealing with this on one quad, and I just cannot seam to get it to go away, no matter what I do with p(45)and i(80) ff120, since there is no D on yaw.
Yaw is too slow for D, but you can add some if you like. Lower Pi on Yaw if you have oscillations.
I missed the point when you went from 30/40 P/I to 67/85. Could you explain why?
I just when from the example of the I/P relationship to then a full tune which included bring up D-term.
Hello, I am new to your channel as recommended by Joshua bardwell amongst other flyers.. I have built several quads since I started fpv back in august of this year and so far, everything but two seem to fly pretty good, but I know there’s room for improvement.. I haven’t been too worried about since I’m still learning to fly better, however, my repertoire of quads is growing and none of them have more than a stock tune.. like I mentioned before, two of my quads, actually 3, have some tuning issues that need to be worked out and I would also like to learn to tune the others beyond a stock tune.. I see that you seem to have a plethora of tuning videos, and so does bardwell, but here in lies the problem, I’m very new to the tuning aspect as in I haven’t done it yet, and every video I’ve seen so far is of much older versions of betaflight than the current that I have been using.. this only compiles the the confusion because I cannot see on my screen, what is being shown on yours or anyone else’s screens.. as a complete noob to tuning, is there a video you would recommend to watch first..? I have read an article by Oscar liang to get familiar with PID, and I’ve watched a handful of videos, but like I said, everything thus far, is from older versions than what is out now.. I’m still trying to understand PID and filtering, not to mention black box.. lol.. please help..! I actually started to try tuning one of my recent builds yesterday but stopped where I was at, because I have no idea what im doing and before I go any further with it, I want to have a better understanding.. please and thank you..!
Hi and welcome! Everything to get you started is at. For quick set Presets, check out that page. For tuning, check out theuavtech.com/tuning
@@uavtech is this the same guide I saw you use in some of your videos you were tuning the 6s quad that someone sent you..? It looks like, just confirming..
@@squirrelyfpv7283 yup.
Trying to tune out a persistent low throttle cruise wobble on my 7”. Help?
lower i-Term. Make sure ESC PWM setting is 24khz if you can. If you ESC only goes down to 48khz, set it to that.
Watching ur videos all over. I got a drone (lightweight 5" long range low power) I went to iNAV and not wont fly on 6S. at first couldnt even hover bad fast oscillation. Lowered everything to default and not my BF tune i put into iNAV. I upped gyro filtering too. I have no vibrations it looks like. But at higher throttle going up it oscillates bad. Fast oscillations like it feels like it wants to run away. been slowly raising D term now.
BF PIDS were like P58 I87 D42
INAV started at BF then went to Default P40 I30 D23. Increased D to 30. it helped a lil. Now increased to 40. see if it helps. Hoping I can get this flying good in iNAV want to use it for long range in TN. Roadtrip from NY to Tn just to fly this drone long range lol. It did fly fine in beginning on 4S. Havent tried again
Wish you lived near by. Pay you to fix it lol
actually reading description ur only hour and a half from me. Im in Wappingers falls NY
Sounds like noise issue. Join the Patreon and throw up a log.on with raw noise recorded (debug = Gyro_Scaled in BF or Gyro in iNAV) and we can take a look. HD or DVR helps too.
@@uavtech I got it flying good for awhile. But giving me issue again lol. Think it's just battery too big and vibrates a lil at times.
Followed this guide. Still get fluttering on intense moves. Increasing D even by a few points does nothing and causes fly alway. Any ideas??
Reduce D, not increase. You are at the D-gain limits or have a lot of gyro noise making the D-term hyper active.
@@uavtech thanks a ton!! You should consider doing a video on how to use the radix graphics osd to tune a quad
So for each quad size, can it have same I gain value.. Or bigger/smaller quad will have lower/higer I value? Based on what? Power to weight ratio or just the AUW of the quad..
I has a wide window. The best way I know how to tune it is you want it strong enough that I-term doesn't wind up a bunch on any given axis in flight to compensate for a low gain. For that, I look at the logs.
I'm trying to tune a fpv wing plane, and thought I'd refer back to this. In Inav I tried to autotune it but was having all sort of bumpiness, especially in windy conditions. I upped the P term a lot and it seemed to help, but after I did a roll I got pitch oscillations and almost crashed. Any idea what the correction for a plane for this is? Should I raise the I term which is very low now, or more D? Does increasing the D term super bad effect the motor like a quad? Maybe it would make the servos go crazy or something and burn out instead?
Like a quad, if the D term is too high, it will cause servo oscillation. The D-term oscillation will occur if your airspeed is too high. Check out this video and the linked video in the description: ruclips.net/video/PTY_fCa_aQE/видео.htmlsi=rubUSu2W6V4xYUug
ruclips.net/video/zu9J8nieC6Y/видео.htmlsi=bSzgX3XV8ujjbR7h&t=209
At the referenced spot in the above video, you can see an example of D-Term oscillation. I think that is what you had happen in Pitch from what it sounds like. So in that case, lower the D-gains. BUT IF you only raised, P-term, then maybe you are experiencing a P-term oscillation as a result of the roll move. In that case, you need to lower P or raise D on the pitch axis.
@@uavtech Yeah I realized today autotune only effects rates not pids, so that was one of my issues obviously.
This is the video I needed lol
How should the P term dampen the I term?
The P term is, as it´s name suggests, proportional to the error. Large error gives large p value.
The I term integrates the error, to eliminate the residual error left by the proportional nature of the P term. So as long as there is an error, the I term steadily grows, until it is strong enough, to get the error to 0, where it stops growing.
In a normal control loop, the I term only starts to decrease once the error goes negative (overshoot), so it can integrate itself back to 0 or negative. But as long as the error is positive, P term and the steadily growing i term both work in the same direction.
The p term only contradicts the i term, if you allready had the overshoot and the i term is still holds a positive value.
That´s a bit like pushing someone over and just help him stand up afterwards...
Whelp, you can see how it works. Since P does not let large error then i-Term doesn't windup to kill it and then overshoot as a result.
In your 5" presets you have tpa higher , what should tpa be at for this quad
? - it was the same quad.
@@uavtech what is the tpa recomended for 5" quad , mine is the iflight cidora 6s
@@uavtech tpa 65 and tpa breakpoint of 1750 on your 5" preset , is this still the recomendation
My two Chim7's when cruising strait have pretty fast but small L&R wiggle ! I got to to try sliding something ! oh dear!
brilliant video thanks
Do you have any advice on how a 9” quad I.P.Ds should change compare to a 5”? What would you expect, and I will lower my rates too. But they aren’t that high, 600 ish
See my preset theuavtech.com/presets
what if you turn off the pid (ipd) controller?
that's how quads and tricopters started, with mixing in the tx
but i haven't seen it done with modern precise esc's motors and reliable recievers
If you turn off the PID controller, it will just sit on the ground. You can do it. Just set all the gains to 0. You will have throttle, but that's it. Don't be close to the quad in trying this and keep on the disarm switch.
Your stick inputs are NOT flying the motors. Your are flying the PID loop. It is flying the quad.
@@uavtech i've already tried that :)
Really usefull video thanks for sharing this ! Also subbed 😉
I heard you call KISS BetaFlight 3.2? Can you make a video explaining why?
Sure.
Really great video ,the first flight reminded me of my first quad(it flew like a cow!) and teaching myself how to tune.😃
Betaflight defaults are so good now I really struggle to notice that much of a difference in adjustments.
I tend to get to a point were it's ok for me and fly it ,probably just compensate without realising?
I.P.D.J ? and the jerk factor dampens the d-term oscillations? :)
Nice one! I use to tune the I alone by checking the quads reaction when going straight and punching the throttle. If a have a nose up in the punch i add I in pitch, if i have some angle taken in the roll axis i raise the I in roll. Usually this ends up in relatively high I values of about 80-90 ( the time that my P and D is arround 35-50). Should i try lowering at steps the I and see what happens?
6:29 HOLYY!!! I want that!! T_T
Is it possible to have an auto tune PID feature in betaflight ?
Other FW has tried it, and it never worked well. I'm not saying it is impossible to get working great, but it would take a team to be very dedicated to it for probably a year or more to prefect and keep optimizing. It is not easy to detect a stepped response in a constant stream of data flow with no storage space and only 210Mhz process that is 80% utilized with flying the thing already. Even at 400Mhz (H7) that's not much for that kind of processing.
@@uavtech Which were the FWs that tried it ?
What setup is that quad? Looks really compact and clean!!
It is the DJI quad: store.dji.com/product/dji-digital-fpv-system?vid=83421
You can get all the components separately and build yourself. You don't need to get from DJI's store. They just have it there for folks first buying the FPV system to pick up a quad as well.
Watching this and the 10 inch patreon video really displays that moment of inertia. The 10 rolled fast and stopped fast but you could see it was working to stop. This 5 inch just stops.
I cannot connect to betaflight anymore. Any suggestions?
Bad USB?
@@uavtech Turned out to be a serial bus device problem. Once I deleted them from my device manager, it solved my problem. Now I have another problem, I have lost my RSSI signal in my radiomaster TX16S. Radiomaster has been a disaster for me. This is my 5th one. Worst radio on the market. Nothing but problems. Love your videos. Thanks.