The thing I hate about this video: I need to strip all my race quads down and rebuild. The thing I love about this video: I need to strip all my race quads down and rebuild.
same here :D Just because i built a new one in the same way as the others... just with more power... resulting in oscillating.... coming acros this video and get the solution... so yeah, i appreciate, i gonna rebuild my quads xD
I discovered this myself many moons ago and I found this really showed itself on my 7 inch builds when needing to deal with noise. It has been a matter of course for me to run wires away from the flight controller altogether and to ensure that nothing, utterly NOTHING, to include all wires, touches the FC accept the bolts and gummies. Glad you proved that out, you the man!
Those sharp turns and screaming punches in the second flight told the whole story. It takes a big man, they say, to admit..... Yet again, Joshua, you demonstrate why when I really need the right answers, I come here. Thanks. Awesome video, too.
To avoid vibration from wires, just apply comformal coating. Let it sit over night with the wires pinned down. The next day it is nice and solid, also works with the esc wires if they bump up against the FC.
More filtering actually contributes significantly to this low freq oscillation due to P and D being too much out of phase with reality. Was it the wire or actually raising the slider that made the key difference? A way to find out is try lowering the slider to say 0.6 or 0.7or so and I’m confident that oscillation will come back worse than before
Here’s an illustration that shows how this trilling is tied to too much filtering (flight is a slow 0-100% throttle sweep). in this illustration filter slider is really low (low cutoff high filtering) and as throttle reaches critical point D term "trilling" goes nuts ruclips.net/video/R6aarL-9muc/видео.html
then exact same rig, just raised the filter slider (lower filtering), and the low freq oscillation is dramatically reduced, at the slight cost of more higher freq noise. Note, both illustrations are simple 0-100% throttle sweep. ruclips.net/video/lSaBlodfcbw/видео.html
In the 2nd example, the only change I made was moving the wire. Before I moved the wire, I tried several different slider positions without improving the situation.
Ok It’s interesting for sure. Something to keep an eye out for. I guess I’m wondering now was one of those wires vbat? I mean it’s hard to imagine a tiny 5v signal doing anything but maybe a vbat wire @ 16.8v or 6s 25v running along the gyro. Idk.
Hi Josh Great video on throttle oscillation. Great now I have to go look at 17 quads that I built and still fly, and see how I ran the wires. I'm pretty sure I will be changing quite a few. Thanks again for the information.
Well that success didn't last long. I think I just got lucky trying this. Did finally figure it out though.. The FC was teetering with the mounting screw and rubber damper. So I was having intermittent terrible noise.
And this is why the geprc mark4 hd5 has a glaring design flaw. I bought a replacement longer cable for the air unit because by default there's no way to not have the camera cable touching your FC.
Merci Joshua ! Cela fait 2 semaines que je cherche en vain la source de mon problème sur mon dernier build. Avec les pid d'origine, ça pose déjà problème, le résultat de ma black box est identique au votre avec une résonance fixe entre 50 et 60hz à vue de nez. J'ai testé avec les deux gyro du contrôleur de vol, c'est pareil. J'ai pourtant fait attention à ce qu'aucun fil ne touche aucun des 2 gyros. Tout démonté, tout vérifié et revérifié, fixé tous les fils ensembles revu mes soudures et même monté des pads anti vibrations sous les moteurs, visuellement la construction est très propre mais rien à y faire. Probablement le fait que les fils touchent juste par endroits le contrôleur de vol sans toucher le gyro pose déjà problème. Au grands mots les grands remèdes, sans pouvoir faire autrement, je vais les y coller au tropicoat ou silicone pour éviter les vibrations et voir ce que ça donne. Toujours au top Joshua, j'apprend beaucoup avec vous 👍
I use liquid electrical tape. Just a dab as it can be removed somewhat easily. Not so much when it's down on the IC solder points, but I doubt any other glue would be any easier to remove from there. It certainly wouldn't hold as well as e6000, so that's certainly an option when you don't want it to move. I imagine e6000 could remove a component of you tried too hard. Always wondered about vhb tape and if it's electrically isolating or not
Thanks Joshua. But I wonder what about a little piece of foam on the gyro? May it should dampen almost every vibration of the wire without any bad influence to the gyro? Maybe like in the older times the foam on the baro
Wires can touch the FC if that's the only option, just don't suspend wires right over the actual gyro chip. When they jiggle, they're going to tap the incredibly sensitive gyro directly.
@@Perforator2000 This poses a new question: What if the gyro is also affected by the signal in the wires close to it? If it can be affected in such a way.
Hello, another question I collect a drone in this regard, please tell me what I'm doing wrong. When checking on the table without propov, armlyu motors spin at idle , then I give gas to 40% and within this range the drone is responsive the engines gain and reduce relative to the movement of the gas stick but as soon as I give more than 50%, the engines themselves gain momentum in the flesh to the maximum speed and on the gas stick the drone berestaet respond, after that you have to disarm. What to do? What's wrong with me? Thanks
At 7:52 it does look like the vibration is still present. Could you post Frequency only charts (as opposed to Freq vs Throttle)? I suffer the same vibration (27Hz) on a lightweight build, but with a AIO 25.5mm FC. So I'm super interested in the solution.
In minute 5:52 Joshua says he pushed the sliders from 1.0 to 1.5, which sliders is he talking about? I see sliders in the PID settings tab, but also in the filter settings, did he moved all of them? Thanks guys
Default D is pretty high for a 6s racing rig like that. With Filter Sliders at 1.5 or even higher and D in the mid 30‘s you probably gonna smoke motors in the summertime once props are bend/broken.
I just figured out what I have been trying to achieve with the settings for a week)) I got the receiver wires near gyro. Мaybe they are a problem leading to clicking sounds of motors and vibrations at high rpm.
Bardwell, I have some oscillation's when i punch out after a powerloop. We've tried tuning it but I'm still getting it. Is it a TPA issue? any suggestions?
So, the theory is that these wires are radiating electrical noise, I would suggest from the ESC. ?...straight into the giro chip..Sounds possible to me...The noise coming from a cheap 4 in 1 ESC is pretty horrible in my experience, it usually gets into the video chip too....🤔🤔😳🇬🇧
the main reason is the wires running acros or over the fc are vibrating due to high velocity wind produced by high rpm spinning props and when it touches or runs across the gyro chip those vibrations are felt by the gyro
It's funny, I noticed that the wires were right above the gyro during that build video and thought about commenting, but I figured other people probably already had. I was like, "Am I just being a nerd, or is this actually fine? I guess we'll find out." Lol.
Someone brought this up to me with a drone.. i did over when I had to change something and maybe sure wires weren't pulled tight anymore accross gyro. I moved them to side and loose over
oh my god, i have the exact same problem with a nearly exact same drone, (different stack), i believe ive done this too, thanks for pointing this out, ive spent the past few hours trying to tune this out and got nowhere
after testing this out i have unfortunately come to the sad conclusion that it was not the problem, i just have an awful drone :( i would be open to any suggestions now..... please help
"Hi, Im Joshua Bardwell, and i had leaned something today" :D ... But anyway who you are, there is stuff to learn every day. It doenst matter if your name is Joshua Bardwell :) ... Btw: Thx for this vidoe, i think i had the same Problem (Calbles under ESC were to thight, resulting in pressing ESC up, resulting in Compressing FC Dampers on One side (so left and right wasnt same thight), also the VTX was loosen and vibrating on the FC, Cables over the FC was touching the Giro.... all in all resulting in the same hight oscillating errors. Funny was, as you sad at the end, that you can built a Quad like this and nothing really happens, and then you build one where you have that problem. Same to me. And funny: With a 4S i hadnt that oscillating. Just with 6S. Here's my why: With the 6S i have much more RPM on the Motors in fact that i have much more voltage. So more RPM = more Vibrations. So i have more Vibrations to filter out with a 6S, as on a 4S LiPo. I havent had this in other Builts with 6S, and also here's my why: in my other Builts i have Motors like 1720 KV. In my new Built i have 1960 KV. So more than 200RPM more. multiplied with 25V, .... yeah, exactly, whole 5000RPM more on my new built, just from 200KV more. So yeah, my other Built just doesnt vibrate as much as the Giro can get problems with the cables on his head :o) Thank you @Joshua for your Videos! I appreciate!
Did you just tape the wire away from the gyro on the fc, but still wire touching the fc? Or wire completely away from the fc? I don't know where the gyro is at on my fc :).
So, problem identified but where did you move your wires? Because, as I can remember from the build video, there wasn't enough space between fc and esc... 🤔🤔
i had a similar problem on my apex build where i had little wobbles around mid and high throttles ,turns out it was my vtx antenna touching my fc and my gyro picking up unwanted noise
After a pretty bad crash where I broke an arm, my video transmission range has tanked to about 100feet. Radio transmission has also suffered. I've reassembled everything a few times. Problems persist... I'm so lost
they where laughing when i sayd that this was causing noise in the gyro because of wire vibration :) but ive doing all my stacks with the wires under the esc and no wires touching the fc
My speedybee V3 stack is doing exactly the same thing on 6s , on 4s its fine I have the xing2 1755 kv I cannot figure it out .. I have a cheap stack with same motors and its fine
Hey all, I'm having a problem I just built a quad and when I throttle to gain some quick altitude and I can't roll or pitch while throttling it just locks at the angle its at and goes, I have to zero throttle to gain full control again, is this a betaflight, solder, or part issue?
And this is why I like you, JB. You can admit when you are wrong, and turn it into a lesson for all of us. :)
A true pro never hides his mistakes :)
The thing I hate about this video: I need to strip all my race quads down and rebuild.
The thing I love about this video: I need to strip all my race quads down and rebuild.
same here :D Just because i built a new one in the same way as the others... just with more power... resulting in oscillating.... coming acros this video and get the solution... so yeah, i appreciate, i gonna rebuild my quads xD
That is crazy now I'm gonna go check all my quads. Thank for sharing JB the best. 🙏👊👊
Same here :| and my wires is a mess.
Always a good day when you learn something. Thanks Joshua
I discovered this myself many moons ago and I found this really showed itself on my 7 inch builds when needing to deal with noise. It has been a matter of course for me to run wires away from the flight controller altogether and to ensure that nothing, utterly NOTHING, to include all wires, touches the FC accept the bolts and gummies. Glad you proved that out, you the man!
Those sharp turns and screaming punches in the second flight told the whole story. It takes a big man, they say, to admit..... Yet again, Joshua, you demonstrate why when I really need the right answers, I come here. Thanks. Awesome video, too.
seriously? that is so crazy. i never would have thought that would have mattered, but yeah, those results are pretty clear. super interesting.
To avoid vibration from wires, just apply comformal coating. Let it sit over night with the wires pinned down. The next day it is nice and solid, also works with the esc wires if they bump up against the FC.
Man thats a cool quad, love the DVR footage.
This is so usefull! Thanks. Now my quad started normaly fly!
JB learnt something today and we benefitted from it! Thank you so much! 🤩
More filtering actually contributes significantly to this low freq oscillation due to P and D being too much out of phase with reality. Was it the wire or actually raising the slider that made the key difference? A way to find out is try lowering the slider to say 0.6 or 0.7or so and I’m confident that oscillation will come back worse than before
Here’s an illustration that shows how this trilling is tied to too much filtering (flight is a slow 0-100% throttle sweep). in this illustration filter slider is really low (low cutoff high filtering) and as throttle reaches critical point D term "trilling" goes nuts ruclips.net/video/R6aarL-9muc/видео.html
then exact same rig, just raised the filter slider (lower filtering), and the low freq oscillation is dramatically reduced, at the slight cost of more higher freq noise. Note, both illustrations are simple 0-100% throttle sweep. ruclips.net/video/lSaBlodfcbw/видео.html
In the 2nd example, the only change I made was moving the wire. Before I moved the wire, I tried several different slider positions without improving the situation.
Ok It’s interesting for sure. Something to keep an eye out for. I guess I’m wondering now was one of those wires vbat? I mean it’s hard to imagine a tiny 5v signal doing anything but maybe a vbat wire @ 16.8v or 6s 25v running along the gyro. Idk.
Definitely a huge improvement
Good info JB. I heard several quads at Rampage with oscillations that could probably use this info.
Hi Josh Great video on throttle oscillation. Great now I have to go look at 17 quads that I built and still fly, and see how I ran the wires. I'm pretty sure I will be changing quite a few. Thanks again for the information.
Wow, that was fascinating!
Pretty interesting indeed! Thanks a lot, Joshua! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Thanks for this tip, I was going nuts trying to get rid of the oscillation on my beta85x. Just sort of moved the wires slightly and it's gone.
Well that success didn't last long. I think I just got lucky trying this. Did finally figure it out though.. The FC was teetering with the mounting screw and rubber damper. So I was having intermittent terrible noise.
You are great one Joshua... 🤣😅 We gonna learn something today and every day😘from you, mate
I would have never thought it would do that.
And this is why the geprc mark4 hd5 has a glaring design flaw. I bought a replacement longer cable for the air unit because by default there's no way to not have the camera cable touching your FC.
Love it JB!
I never thought this is a problem
Merci Joshua ! Cela fait 2 semaines que je cherche en vain la source de mon problème sur mon dernier build. Avec les pid d'origine, ça pose déjà problème, le résultat de ma black box est identique au votre avec une résonance fixe entre 50 et 60hz à vue de nez. J'ai testé avec les deux gyro du contrôleur de vol, c'est pareil. J'ai pourtant fait attention à ce qu'aucun fil ne touche aucun des 2 gyros. Tout démonté, tout vérifié et revérifié, fixé tous les fils ensembles revu mes soudures et même monté des pads anti vibrations sous les moteurs, visuellement la construction est très propre mais rien à y faire. Probablement le fait que les fils touchent juste par endroits le contrôleur de vol sans toucher le gyro pose déjà problème. Au grands mots les grands remèdes, sans pouvoir faire autrement, je vais les y coller au tropicoat ou silicone pour éviter les vibrations et voir ce que ça donne. Toujours au top Joshua, j'apprend beaucoup avec vous 👍
Great video, this one helped me a lot 🇯🇲👍
I use E6000 glue to pin down wires when I have to run them over the FC.
Up this!
I use liquid electrical tape. Just a dab as it can be removed somewhat easily. Not so much when it's down on the IC solder points, but I doubt any other glue would be any easier to remove from there. It certainly wouldn't hold as well as e6000, so that's certainly an option when you don't want it to move. I imagine e6000 could remove a component of you tried too hard. Always wondered about vhb tape and if it's electrically isolating or not
E6000 is DA BOMB. not enough ppl in this hobby know about it.
Thanks Joshua. But I wonder what about a little piece of foam on the gyro? May it should dampen almost every vibration of the wire without any bad influence to the gyro? Maybe like in the older times the foam on the baro
So the conclusion is: Don't let wires touch the FC.
Nice detective work & example testing :)
Wires can touch the FC if that's the only option, just don't suspend wires right over the actual gyro chip. When they jiggle, they're going to tap the incredibly sensitive gyro directly.
@@Perforator2000 This poses a new question: What if the gyro is also affected by the signal in the wires close to it? If it can be affected in such a way.
@@licensetodrive9930 I think that is also possible.
Hello, another question I collect a drone in this regard, please tell me what I'm doing wrong. When checking on the table without propov, armlyu motors spin at idle , then I give gas to 40% and within this range the drone is responsive the engines gain and reduce relative to the movement of the gas stick but as soon as I give more than 50%, the engines themselves gain momentum in the flesh to the maximum speed and on the gas stick the drone berestaet respond, after that you have to disarm. What to do? What's wrong with me? Thanks
At 7:52 it does look like the vibration is still present. Could you post Frequency only charts (as opposed to Freq vs Throttle)? I suffer the same vibration (27Hz) on a lightweight build, but with a AIO 25.5mm FC. So I'm super interested in the solution.
You learned something today!!
In minute 5:52 Joshua says he pushed the sliders from 1.0 to 1.5, which sliders is he talking about? I see sliders in the PID settings tab, but also in the filter settings, did he moved all of them? Thanks guys
Default D is pretty high for a 6s racing rig like that. With Filter Sliders at 1.5 or even higher and D in the mid 30‘s you probably gonna smoke motors in the summertime once props are bend/broken.
Hello, I have just replaced one of my ESCs, but now moter 1 won't spin up anymore. All ESCs are detected in Blheli.
I just figured out what I have been trying to achieve with the settings for a week)) I got the receiver wires near gyro. Мaybe they are a problem leading to clicking sounds of motors and vibrations at high rpm.
Guess I should move that RX off the top of the FC that I ziptied down there..
Me too, on so many quads... 🤦
Bardwell, I have some oscillation's when i punch out after a powerloop. We've tried tuning it but I'm still getting it. Is it a TPA issue? any suggestions?
So, the theory is that these wires are radiating electrical noise, I would suggest from the ESC. ?...straight into the giro chip..Sounds possible to me...The noise coming from a cheap 4 in 1 ESC is pretty horrible in my experience, it usually gets into the video chip too....🤔🤔😳🇬🇧
the main reason is the wires running acros or over the fc are vibrating due to high velocity wind produced by high rpm spinning props and when it touches or runs across the gyro chip those vibrations are felt by the gyro
@@chrisfpv5706 Lol....nope...lol...that was funny...🤔😀
It's funny, I noticed that the wires were right above the gyro during that build video and thought about commenting, but I figured other people probably already had. I was like, "Am I just being a nerd, or is this actually fine? I guess we'll find out." Lol.
I was the same. As soon as I saw it I thought well that's going to be a problem but then was like...he'll figure it out.
Someone brought this up to me with a drone.. i did over when I had to change something and maybe sure wires weren't pulled tight anymore accross gyro. I moved them to side and loose over
Hi. Can I ask you to post the flight log from this frame. I would like to see a picture... If it's not too much trouble. Thanks.
oh my god, i have the exact same problem with a nearly exact same drone, (different stack), i believe ive done this too, thanks for pointing this out, ive spent the past few hours trying to tune this out and got nowhere
after testing this out i have unfortunately come to the sad conclusion that it was not the problem, i just have an awful drone :( i would be open to any suggestions now..... please help
"Hi, Im Joshua Bardwell, and i had leaned something today" :D ... But anyway who you are, there is stuff to learn every day. It doenst matter if your name is Joshua Bardwell :) ... Btw: Thx for this vidoe, i think i had the same Problem (Calbles under ESC were to thight, resulting in pressing ESC up, resulting in Compressing FC Dampers on One side (so left and right wasnt same thight), also the VTX was loosen and vibrating on the FC, Cables over the FC was touching the Giro.... all in all resulting in the same hight oscillating errors. Funny was, as you sad at the end, that you can built a Quad like this and nothing really happens, and then you build one where you have that problem. Same to me. And funny: With a 4S i hadnt that oscillating. Just with 6S. Here's my why: With the 6S i have much more RPM on the Motors in fact that i have much more voltage. So more RPM = more Vibrations. So i have more Vibrations to filter out with a 6S, as on a 4S LiPo. I havent had this in other Builts with 6S, and also here's my why: in my other Builts i have Motors like 1720 KV. In my new Built i have 1960 KV. So more than 200RPM more. multiplied with 25V, .... yeah, exactly, whole 5000RPM more on my new built, just from 200KV more. So yeah, my other Built just doesnt vibrate as much as the Giro can get problems with the cables on his head :o)
Thank you @Joshua for your Videos! I appreciate!
Mechanical resonance on the gyro through a bad-positioned wire. That's engineering porn 🤣
Thats stuff what nightmares are made of
Did you just tape the wire away from the gyro on the fc, but still wire touching the fc? Or wire completely away from the fc? I don't know where the gyro is at on my fc :).
I ran the wire over the top of the Ghost Hybrid so it's not touching the FC at all.
Great video thank u
I just has this spent ages tuning it out and eventually realized and had to rewire everything so nothing was over the top of the fc (using kakute f7)
So, problem identified but where did you move your wires?
Because, as I can remember from the build video, there wasn't enough space between fc and esc... 🤔🤔
On top of the Ghost Hybrid.
Hey, i was wondering when ur getfpv (XILO 5" Freestyle Beginner Drone Bundle) will be back in stock? Do you know by any chance?
They are always back ordered. You have to put in a back order then wait.
@@JoshuaBardwell Ok
Love u sir
i had a similar problem on my apex build where i had little wobbles around mid and high throttles ,turns out it was my vtx antenna touching my fc and my gyro picking up unwanted noise
After a pretty bad crash where I broke an arm, my video transmission range has tanked to about 100feet. Radio transmission has also suffered. I've reassembled everything a few times. Problems persist... I'm so lost
What about the battery strap running across that?
they where laughing when i sayd that this was causing noise in the gyro because of wire vibration :) but ive doing all my stacks with the wires under the esc and no wires touching the fc
How to get that red diagram in betaflight ?
My speedybee V3 stack is doing exactly the same thing on 6s , on 4s its fine I have the xing2 1755 kv I cannot figure it out .. I have a cheap stack with same motors and its fine
Same..
Hey all, I'm having a problem
I just built a quad and when I throttle to gain some quick altitude and I can't roll or pitch while throttling it just locks at the angle its at and goes, I have to zero throttle to gain full control again, is this a betaflight, solder, or part issue?
Connect it to betaflight and monitor the radio channels while simulating this case. Maybe you have some mix enabled on you radio
@@bestbattle in the reciever tab everything seems fine, im using a flysky btw
nice!
I had yaw twitches. Rerouted the wire, twitches went away.
I learned that a long time ago....
Are you wearing a Darth Vader helmet when you were flying?
Lol I was going to mention the possibility of that being an issue but I didn't want to be wrong
What’s wrong is I think you forgot to soft mount the motors ;)
Whats your opinion on fettec vs kiss v2?
You'll love either or. This is the way
❤️❤️❤️
Hey
🤦♂️
👍👀🇭🇷
NO MATTER HOW MUCH UR A KNOWITALL THERES ALWAYS SOMTHING NEW TO LEARN. THAT THIS HOBBIE ALL OVER JUST LIKE 3DPRINTING LOL
Noob. :D