The things you explain here are really the things that I got a feeling for after more than 1k hours on ice. Really cool it's explained here. In that case people don't have to get to a long learning curve haha.
Can't wait for OpenPlanet to release learning mode so weird jank like this can be practiced with a helper that makes the opaque physics of trackmania visible.
To be honest, I'm torn on my opinion of these things. Feel based physics things are super annoying to deal with. Being able to practice these with visual aid is great. Not being able to use them while going for records and such.. not so sure. We'll probably have people practicing with the tool for hours and hours, getting quite an advantage, locked behind that. Then again, it could be even worse if those tools were available while going for records! All in all, it's cool these things are being found and developed. Just not sure about my opinion on the learner mode. We'll see what the community says in the future, for now, let the interesting plugins commence!
@@void_snw I am incredibly annoyed by the decision because streamers had access to these plugins and used them in freaking COTDs for months before OpenPlanet said anything. I guarantee those streamers are using those plugins still, when they're not on stream. "Rules for thee, not for me." Ridiculous in my opinion.
some guy made a video of a pluging that shows you the optimal angle and openplanet is working on it but they are concerned it is too close to cheating if you use it in competitive
Still no training mode. It was a bs excuse to calm the backlash after the veterans of the game bullied Openplanet out of releasing visual aid support for new players to learn with. @@DVous
It really makes you wonder why they changed ice physics in a way that's almost universally disliked but left in this 'danger wedge' with completely incomprehensible mechanics. Even with your thorough analysis it's a bit wishy washy and has loose ends... There's also frustrating things like your car getting stuck at a certain angle, even if you release to try and lower your angle. There also seems to be a bug happening completely randomly where one of your wheels just bumps into the air a little in the middle of your slide (this may have to do with custom block collision, but idk) To be honest, I enjoy ice. It's a really cool (no pun intended) and unique surface. It's such a shame how unpolished it is, causing it to feel random and unfair.
I can't agree more. Of all the weird mechanics that make the game harder to play and enjoy, it's really frustrating that they just "fixed" something else entirely instead.
I'm only a casual player, but this kind of analysis is still so valuable. I think ice is a really interesting and cool surface, and it feels great to play when everything lines up, but "randomly" sliding out has always felt absolutely horrible. Hats off to you for taking such a rigorous approach to such mechanics in Trackmania and making them much more understandable to laymen like me!
Finally someone can explain gears in ice sliding properly. Most ice pro players just learned how to play but could never explain what's actually happening xD
Very interesting insight, thank you very much! As a mediocre Ice player I rate icemaps highly where even on a not so perfect run the car enters an iceslide at low rpm so there is no risk of an accidental danger-wedge-slideout. So for example a turn that will always be in low gear 4 and not just on a perfect run (unless I hard crash ofc). Basically avoiding this weird NadeoPhysicsMoment(tm) entirely. Something to keep in mind when building ice that makes the map much less frustrating for the average joe like myself.
excellent in-depth look at ice mechanics. analysis like this is invaluable to the community (and perhaps even secretly Nadeo-who knows if they even know their mechanics this well lol). very cool to see. see you on the IL leaderboards ;)
These Tools in a learning mode plugin is a good way to address all the issues people have with it. I think It's a very good move that will benefit the community in the long run. And mad props for researching all of this and creating the plugins!
this is the best for open planet. the mod becomes a training mod without having to worry about this tools are used in online lobbys or leaderboard ranks. like bakkes mod in rocket league. its just there to get better at the game
could you make an OpenPlanet extension to display the lines from the video (or link one if it already exists)? (temporarily, until learning mode releases)
The overcomplicated mess that is the ice physics is some of what makes it so fun for me :) Also always being cautious to not slide out while also trying to drive good lines on such a weird surface is what makes good ice players so mesmerizing
Wait so is the 'gearbug' actually holding it in in the upper safe zone and not gearing until you come out of the turn? What's happening with gear bugs?
Gearbugs are the shifts inside the danger wedge, but where the car shifts quickly and smoothly rather than sliding out. We haven’t figured out what makes it good vs bad, though :/
@@sergeantbigbird holy shit! That's why they are so hard to get. There have been tracks where I've driven for like 20 mins and got like top 200 ish, watched the wr and there is an insane gear bug. Eventually get one and instantly get like top 50. So powerful! Good to know if I'm sliding out trying gear bugs I'm actually on the right track. Hahaha 😅
is speed not based on the actual tire speed but rather the car body's absolute speed? so sliding backwards is still positive speed that can trigger gear ups? also has anyone ever made a mod allowing for manual gear changes?
in the context of my work - yes speed is the car body’s absolute speed, ie length of velocity vector. re #2, no - nobody’s ever done manual gear changes as far as I know
That explains why I'm so bad at Ice! Thank you for doing this video. I have experienced the weird accel zones and I was quite puzzled as to what was going on under the hood of the game. This explains it. Thank you!
Great video! Interesting to see how exactly it works, the only conclusion out of this is that ice physics are horrible though 😂 Just replace it with no-grip and everything is fine 🫠
I feel like paying intense attention to engine sound on ice is one of the most effective ways to learn when you’re about to screw up, of course it isn’t 100% effective but it really helps finding ideal sd angles and slide out angles.
subscribed. technical information like this very good for new players like me that wants to understand what the fuck is going on. why will you not allow for online mode with the plug in. its just giving visual feedback. similar to most other tools in trackmania.
I am amazed and impressed but at the same time not so surprised at how stupid this is and how long it took the community to crack the code. Man nadeoooo xD
@@DanielHatchman to be honest that's probably not going to work well if you're a beginner. The reason is that once you figure out why your car is sliding out, you can now try to get close to the edge. In that case it's better to be safer yet slower. Once you get a feel for when your car is about to slide out you can try to improve, but it's better to first try to finish the map without crashing and then refine your lines. To draw a parallel, if you're new to drifting and playing a tech map, the first thing is to understand how to engage a drift and then release acceleration to correct the line rather than trying to get a perfect drift with the exact amount of breaking to get the perfect line. Sometimes the best players are able to take a turn with the upper gear and it changes the way you take that turn completely so it can be a very frustrating experience. Anyway I wish I'd seen this video sooner, it's brilliant.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
The things you explain here are really the things that I got a feeling for after more than 1k hours on ice. Really cool it's explained here. In that case people don't have to get to a long learning curve haha.
^ this
Can't wait for OpenPlanet to release learning mode so weird jank like this can be practiced with a helper that makes the opaque physics of trackmania visible.
To be honest, I'm torn on my opinion of these things. Feel based physics things are super annoying to deal with. Being able to practice these with visual aid is great. Not being able to use them while going for records and such.. not so sure. We'll probably have people practicing with the tool for hours and hours, getting quite an advantage, locked behind that. Then again, it could be even worse if those tools were available while going for records!
All in all, it's cool these things are being found and developed. Just not sure about my opinion on the learner mode. We'll see what the community says in the future, for now, let the interesting plugins commence!
@@void_snw I am incredibly annoyed by the decision because streamers had access to these plugins and used them in freaking COTDs for months before OpenPlanet said anything. I guarantee those streamers are using those plugins still, when they're not on stream. "Rules for thee, not for me." Ridiculous in my opinion.
some guy made a video of a pluging that shows you the optimal angle and openplanet is working on it but they are concerned it is too close to cheating if you use it in competitive
Is learning mode still not released? When you can’t rely on realistic physics, it’s only fair that there should be a training mode
Still no training mode. It was a bs excuse to calm the backlash after the veterans of the game bullied Openplanet out of releasing visual aid support for new players to learn with. @@DVous
It really makes you wonder why they changed ice physics in a way that's almost universally disliked but left in this 'danger wedge' with completely incomprehensible mechanics. Even with your thorough analysis it's a bit wishy washy and has loose ends...
There's also frustrating things like your car getting stuck at a certain angle, even if you release to try and lower your angle. There also seems to be a bug happening completely randomly where one of your wheels just bumps into the air a little in the middle of your slide (this may have to do with custom block collision, but idk)
To be honest, I enjoy ice. It's a really cool (no pun intended) and unique surface. It's such a shame how unpolished it is, causing it to feel random and unfair.
I can't agree more. Of all the weird mechanics that make the game harder to play and enjoy, it's really frustrating that they just "fixed" something else entirely instead.
Because this is surely not intended, just a side effect of how they programmed the physics. Nadeo might not even be aware of this
Bold of you to assume that Nadeo knows exactly how ice works lol
You know, I didn't think I could be convinced that ice gears were even more stupid than I thought they were, guess I was wrong.
I'm only a casual player, but this kind of analysis is still so valuable. I think ice is a really interesting and cool surface, and it feels great to play when everything lines up, but "randomly" sliding out has always felt absolutely horrible. Hats off to you for taking such a rigorous approach to such mechanics in Trackmania and making them much more understandable to laymen like me!
Finally someone can explain gears in ice sliding properly. Most ice pro players just learned how to play but could never explain what's actually happening xD
actually banger video wtf, thanks for the tips
Very interesting insight, thank you very much! As a mediocre Ice player I rate icemaps highly where even on a not so perfect run the car enters an iceslide at low rpm so there is no risk of an accidental danger-wedge-slideout. So for example a turn that will always be in low gear 4 and not just on a perfect run (unless I hard crash ofc). Basically avoiding this weird NadeoPhysicsMoment(tm) entirely. Something to keep in mind when building ice that makes the map much less frustrating for the average joe like myself.
Awesome video as always, I simply love your content and the scientific approach that you have towards these problems
Thank you so much!
excellent in-depth look at ice mechanics. analysis like this is invaluable to the community (and perhaps even secretly Nadeo-who knows if they even know their mechanics this well lol). very cool to see.
see you on the IL leaderboards ;)
These Tools in a learning mode plugin is a good way to address all the issues people have with it. I think It's a very good move that will benefit the community in the long run. And mad props for researching all of this and creating the plugins!
What an amazing video, thanks for making it clear for us
Incredible work! Your graphs look very pretty
So basically, random slideouts are real, they just arent random, and they are incredibly stupid... thanks NANDO
Here from Wirt. Great video!
great work, dude! Wirtual says hi
this is the best for open planet. the mod becomes a training mod without having to worry about this tools are used in online lobbys or leaderboard ranks. like bakkes mod in rocket league. its just there to get better at the game
This reminds me of Quake 3's cgaz/zones hud to help with the angles in strafejumping.
I mean - to the point where it might be worth looking into how that worked to better undersatnd the nadeo physics.
Didn't know about the learning mode. That's nice
could you make an OpenPlanet extension to display the lines from the video (or link one if it already exists)? (temporarily, until learning mode releases)
Just giving some love, was watching from wirtual video
Finally more info about the learning mode! Im pretty excited by these, as it can reallh help to see how much you can push any map whatsoever
THIS NEEDS TO BEA PLUGIN
The overcomplicated mess that is the ice physics is some of what makes it so fun for me :) Also always being cautious to not slide out while also trying to drive good lines on such a weird surface is what makes good ice players so mesmerizing
How have less than 10K people watched this? This is huge!
Wait so is the 'gearbug' actually holding it in in the upper safe zone and not gearing until you come out of the turn? What's happening with gear bugs?
Gearbugs are the shifts inside the danger wedge, but where the car shifts quickly and smoothly rather than sliding out. We haven’t figured out what makes it good vs bad, though :/
@@sergeantbigbird holy shit! That's why they are so hard to get. There have been tracks where I've driven for like 20 mins and got like top 200 ish, watched the wr and there is an insane gear bug. Eventually get one and instantly get like top 50. So powerful! Good to know if I'm sliding out trying gear bugs I'm actually on the right track. Hahaha 😅
i needed this video, well done :)
this game went from having skill and reaction time to having a PHD in physics
is speed not based on the actual tire speed but rather the car body's absolute speed? so sliding backwards is still positive speed that can trigger gear ups? also has anyone ever made a mod allowing for manual gear changes?
in the context of my work - yes speed is the car body’s absolute speed, ie length of velocity vector. re #2, no - nobody’s ever done manual gear changes as far as I know
Can i get the real values for the lines pls? You offered in description (:
I’m pretty new to ice but I’m confused at what happens when I slide out from releasing the throttle?
That explains why I'm so bad at Ice! Thank you for doing this video. I have experienced the weird accel zones and I was quite puzzled as to what was going on under the hood of the game. This explains it. Thank you!
Great video!
Interesting to see how exactly it works, the only conclusion out of this is that ice physics are horrible though 😂
Just replace it with no-grip and everything is fine 🫠
Wirtual reacted to your video btw. Unfortunately not a lot of people came to visit the original
I came :)
Is the learning mode thing out already?
Bro's the astrophysicist of trackmania
Great guide, thank you!
The no grip effect has no such problems right
I love data backed science! Awesome work!
i want tm og no gear racing back
W Wirtual
280 km/h in gear 0 OMEGALUL
If only nadeo released an update to fix ice... again
Nicely explained why I hate Ice to death, old ice physics was fine
I feel like paying intense attention to engine sound on ice is one of the most effective ways to learn when you’re about to screw up, of course it isn’t 100% effective but it really helps finding ideal sd angles and slide out angles.
subscribed. technical information like this very good for new players like me that wants to understand what the fuck is going on. why will you not allow for online mode with the plug in. its just giving visual feedback. similar to most other tools in trackmania.
I am amazed and impressed but at the same time not so surprised at how stupid this is and how long it took the community to crack the code. Man nadeoooo xD
averaged MIT student playing trackmania
I’d prefer this to be explained slower with more examples and more words. The get the main points but not all details.
What annoys me us that no-where in Trackmania does it explain anything about ice sliding. You're suppose to magically figure out it's better to slide.
You can just watch wrs on the leaderboard
@@DanielHatchman to be honest that's probably not going to work well if you're a beginner. The reason is that once you figure out why your car is sliding out, you can now try to get close to the edge. In that case it's better to be safer yet slower. Once you get a feel for when your car is about to slide out you can try to improve, but it's better to first try to finish the map without crashing and then refine your lines. To draw a parallel, if you're new to drifting and playing a tech map, the first thing is to understand how to engage a drift and then release acceleration to correct the line rather than trying to get a perfect drift with the exact amount of breaking to get the perfect line. Sometimes the best players are able to take a turn with the upper gear and it changes the way you take that turn completely so it can be a very frustrating experience. Anyway I wish I'd seen this video sooner, it's brilliant.
bump
hello
did you say nudio? lol
HAAAAHHAAAAHAAAA
Still no training mode. Bunch of bs 🤷