Bad Speakers Start with This. 🛑 Flush Mounted vs Surface Mounted Tweeters. Why it matters.
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- Опубликовано: 10 июн 2022
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For those asking this question repeatedly in the comments, his review does not apply to tweeters with a waveguide. One of the specific design goals of a waveguide is to greatly reduce if not eliminate altogether edge diffraction.
I believe its because his first shot at 3 seconds in shows a tweeter with a moderate waveguide......
Like the Paradigm Reference Studio Esprit. Nothing flush mounted, has a waveguide. Testing and tweaking I guess.
Mines not flush mounted. I didn't know I can go back after the circle guide with a rabbiting bit.
Now I do. The problem is my big router is too clunky for the job, on a small truncate faceplate cut.
Maybe one day with a little palm router.
I wouldn't be able to hear this video without non flush mounted!! Actually they are flush mount, almost total crap pc speakers. They work.
His review? I thought this was a product advice video, not a product review video.
@@x-techgaming Pedantic much?
Are you telling me he went and took a picture of a popular active speakers even if it doesn't apply to his video??
I really like these generalized videos. Makes it a little easier to weed out speakers right off the bat. Excellent video. 👍
oh dear poor edifier haha. Actually I wouldnt be too quick to dismiss the speakers shown in the images and thumbnail, while they do suffer from the issues described in this video, they are very cheap and perform well within their price range. Even Amir from ASR put the R1280T on his recommended list.
Well, Amir says a lot of stuff I don't agree with. But that's why they call them opinions. I just presented the facts of what happens when you surface mount. Value/performance is the decision made by the customer. :)
Lol - I listened to this video on a pair of Edifier S2000MKIII speakers...
This may not be a desirable fix for alot of people, but I've fixed a surface mounted tweeers edge defraction by adding black foam strip (1/4" wide 1/8"tall) to the outer edge of the tweeter flange. Then I added it to the outer edges of the flat front baffle. Just applied it down both side running top to bottom. My speakers baffles are black, so the narrow black foam doesnt look bad at all. With just this minor mod the speakers came to life. The mids and highs instantly sounded louder with more detail, especially at lower volumes. I'd rather have flush mounted tweeters, but for now this works
Excellent comment - the foam dampens, or removes, the unwanted frequencies introduced by the step(s).
Great video, particularly after I had the same question regarding the unusual surrounds on some of the Purifi drivers in your last video. As you, it has been discussed in the past, but I have NEVER seen an actual A-B comparison of the same driver like you've just presented. Man, I can't get enough of actual objective measurements and what they mean and how they impact sound and performance. I don't know how much you paid for that Klippel scanner - but I'm so glad you did....
Again thank you for such informative videos and explaining design flaws on speakers design! Based on your reviews, scientific data and recommendation I purchased a pair of KEF LS50W II on sale without listening to them first! They are great!
It may not be new information Erin, but it’s always going to be new to someone. And your concise, easy to follow explanation is very helpful. Really appreciate all you’re doing for those of us interested in all things audio. Many thanks!
It was new to me! I second this, appreciate everything you do Erin.
Your channel is definitely one of my favorites in audio because of videos like this
On a blind test, can a person differentiate the flush mounted and the surface mounted?
Good advice for the DIY crowd as well. It's not just the sound, they look so much better flush mounted too.
@ibstudios that's because they're either stupid/ignorant or assume their customer base is also stupid/ignorant.
The only time a surface mounted tweeter might not be bad is when the grille frame is designed to fit around the tweeter face, creating a smooth transition. Paradigm and some others have speakers designed like this.
Exactly, I have Studio 20 V2s and not only does the grille frame fit around both drivers, the edges of the frames are rounded to further reduce discontinuities! A very clever design technique.
I have to say the Studio 60v5’s and Studio CC690v5 have been some of the best sounding speakers in my LRC soundstage I’ve ever had.
Yes, PSB speakers too would come with a card telling customers to keep the grille on for this reason.
Thanks for this info ,found it useful to spot cheaply made speakers,even by established brands at times
Thank you for being awesome and so informative! What about inverted, flush mounted tweeters like you see on Focal speakers? What difference does the inverted dome design make? Thank you again.
i am impressed by how the mounted option flush vs surface can be seen on the measurements! thanks
Amazing how much of a difference a few mm can make! Thanks for the video 👍👍
That's what she said!!!!! (sorry, I couldn't help myself)
@@ErinsAudioCorner 😁
You'll be amazed that sound is as big as it's carrier atom.
How big is the air atom? Even a millimeter distance is way too big for it obviously.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Is this valid for full-range speakers?
That time laps of microphone testing is awesome. The work that goes into acoustic tuning is insane.
Thank you for your informative video, Erin! Years ago, I used to make frequent visits to the Zaph Audio site you mentioned, and I liked it a lot for its data and general info. I also visited Seigreid Linkwitz's site and read his material on loudspeaker data, implementation and radiation patterns. I like these topics, and you are superbly presenting this subject matter in a very engaging and fun way! I thank you! 😊 🍺
Well, thank you very much.
That's surprising how much difference it makes for something that seems so small. Great work Erin!
it doesn't its purely for looks .Tweeters cant produce low enough waves to have this a problem
There's a big difference _on the graph_ which doesn't mean it will be a great difference for your ears as well. Remember this measurement equipment is many times more sensitive than our "ape ears".
It's good practice to do but it won't make a night and day difference as is implied here.
@@scivirus3563
That's obviously not true, maybe you should learn how to read a frequency response graph.
@@scivirus3563 You obviously do not understand how this works. The diffraction is from the tweeter being about a 1/4" off the baffle.. The 1/4" dimension is VERY much a wavelength of a high frequency driver.
I have triangle zetas where the tweeters appear to be more recessed so it's a bit behind the baffle. To me it sounds fine, not perfect but fairly well balanced. Like many metal tweeters, it can accentuate sibilance at times but tonally, for voices it does a fine job for budget speakers..much preferred when compared to borea 2
The same problem
You are right, the pressure zone leaves the transducer and jumps producing the air movement hopefully reaching your ear with some wave forms that resemble the intended sound from the artist. Technology/art..Like my photography....
Interesting video my towers have dome flush tweeters they’re old school but I love them sounds amazing to my ears.
Great info. Would this be applicable to car audio applications? And if so any examples of good implementations?
For me it all depends I buy components and I place them in different places in the room on sticks with magnets. I changed the positioning of my sound with the treble.
I like the HR24 mackie tweeter with the laser wave guide.
Surface or flat mount or flush. It doesn't matter if you have a grill though. I have definitive technology the original flagships from 1996 and I can never see my speakers unless I rip those socks off. It's a beautiful set up and I never really get to look at it unless I shine a really bright light.
Would explain my issue with my Denon & Sony speakers from the ferret talk, thanks, Erin!
Here's an idea - arrange a simple test to see if anyone can hear the difference between a flush-mounted and surface-mounted tweeter in the same speaker, all else kept equal. Should be easy to arrange by adding a simple cardboard shim behind a flush-mounted tweeter to emulate it being surface mounted. How many people do you think will be able to hear the difference?
I think the off-axis response around 7-10kHz being up about 2-3dB will definitely be audible. But I'd have to arrange a setup. Regardless of *how* audible it is, it's poor design practice and not something that can be fixed once set in stone. As I'm sure you know.
@@ErinsAudioCorner this is just conjecture, really, unless it is tested... it is entirely possible that the diffuse point sources give a more pleasant spatial perspective, or not, just conjecture. Interesting topic, and one that I think nearly every speaker maker since the 1940s has wrestled with.
@@themaskedsingercucucachu8225 1000%
@@themaskedsingercucucachu8225 Linkwitz has written about it. And I can absolutely tell you that I've seen the effects from diffraction rear its ugly head by designs shooting for a flat on-axis response, not accounting for the off-axis issues of diffraction, and winding up with boosted HF in-room response. So, while the difference itself may be debatable in terms of audibility, the actual result from a poor *design* perspective isn't debatable and is audible and readily measurable.
@@themaskedsingercucucachu8225
It's not really conjecture.
Additional reflected energy that create positive attributes like spaciousness, immersiveness... aren't manifested from the VER or Very Early Reflections... it's just smear, corrupted in both freq and time domain.
Such characteristics you mention result from later arriving energy after a well delineated direct sound has been experienced by the listener.
Ideally it's;
1.) Direct sound (a clean, phase coherent source)
2.) An adequate ITD Gap (initial time-delay)
3.) Then early reflections
4.) Finally, a diffuse reverberant sound field is experienced by the listener
Subjectively this should result in a distinct image, it should resolve whatever depth existed in the recordeding, then the later arrival of the reverberant field is a pleasant bonus.
I believe Toole's work established that the early reflected energy off the sidewalls can in some cases, add greater ASW, or "Apparent Source Width".
Which in some cases is subjectively pleasing... if the material is well suited, and if the sidewall distance is adequately wide.
Thanks Erin! Is the same true for different tweeter designs (horn loaded, ribbon, air motion transformer, etc.)?
You made me study my bowers & wilkins 607s2 silver anniversary speakers & I was thinking although they look like the main tweeter is impeded the metal shield covering is protruded so it's confusing.
Good info but I do have a question. What about if you make a 'waveguide' for the tweeter; meaning, the tweeter is surface mounted to baffle A but then you have baffle B that sits atop baffle A with either a roundover or chamfered 'waveguide'? Also, what would be better in this scenario, a roundover or a chamfer?
Thanks for the informative video.
What do you think about the wave guide tweeter?
You should look into how Paul Barton and PSB have dealt with surface mounted tweeters. They designed their grills on some models with acoustic felts padding that allow the tweeter to become flush when they are attached. They use to include a little card saying to keep the grille on. They talk about it on the 50 year doc they've just released.
Actually, the current iteration of PSB speakers use a proprietary waveguide for tweeter mounting. Previous designs used flush mounting combined with felt surrounds in an effort to additionally reduce edge diffraction. None had surface mount tweeters to my knowledge.
I'd like to start by stating that I really appreciate your opinions because they are typically based on logical thinking and measurements. I've built a number of speakers, reflex, back loaded horns, MLT, etc. A number of my builds use Fostex drivers that have a cast frame with a beveled surround, an example would be the FE-208EZ. Do you think there would be any benefit in insetting the driver so that the beveled edge meets the baffle? Does the 1/8" shoulder on these drivers significantly impact sound quality? I always inset my tweeters so that there is no shoulder above the baffle, but this video got my thinking about the other drivers. Thanks for your time!
Totally agree. I designed a well reviewed loudspeaker about 8 yrs ago and it has unusually good dispersion matching between mid-bass and tweeter. However the baffle is narrow so diffraction has an effect. I'm thinking about a new version with a waveguide, not for matching to the mid-bass but simply to minimise baffle edge diffraction. It can take as little as a 10mm deep waveguide to help a lot. It's what happens off-axis with diffraction that often goes undiscussed.
I'm curious how much it is influenced by sharpness of the edge or even the step distance. For example, can you radius the edge and drastically reduce the effect? And if that step down is moderate versus thin, how much does it matter. And is in the flange edge specifically causing the problem or what happens after? For example, if you have a flange step but the step down is a soft surface, does it modify the effect? I'm mostly curious what critical elements of the construction matters. The distance should affect frequency of influence, but what happens next? As a second part to this, I might expect the evenness of the edge distance would amplify the effect. But if that edge distance was non-linear, for example an oval flange or star shaped, would that reduce the magnitude of the effect? Would it damp out the behavior over a broader frequency range?
Why the curiosity? Because we're not just talking speaker flanges. We're also really talking about enclosures too. Your enclosure size, your edge treatment, and even where you place the driver should influence this same effect. Do you install a tweeter center or offset slightly ? Do you purposely keep it away from edges as to not be right at the very top of the cabinet? At least through some operating range of frequency, this should matter. And if a 4" flange matters, most folks might have their tweeter, even if flush mounted, 2" or less to one of the corners of their enclosure. Should they worry? Should they change how they fundamentally place drivers into the enclosure face? (for example, MTW versus TMW) If the flange matters, the enclosure matters.
Buy the Loudspeaker Design Cookbook by Joe D'Appolito to start.....It all matters.
People heard about but do not know why it happens. Actually it is cooperation of two reflections - if phase of the same signal mixes in two sharply changing distances of reflection as presented here with baffle and reflection plate from speaker you get any single frequency vanishing 100% due to antiphase
. Looking at dimensions step about 4mm antiphase should happen for 8 mm long wave.( 20kHz is 1,5cm long) it means we are talking about some 36 kHz.
That reflection problem is at distance 5 cm from center so it will be six wave lengths after stright axis 36kHz is received . Of course some will claim for them it as audible and I congratulate them. With rounded there are more reflections filling continue way the gap. My opinion? ... no, I do not count
Picture in the example i belive is Edifier 1280, and i think that all from 1100 to 1850 has surface mounting. But they are still among most sold and highest ranked budget BT active speakers under 200usd.
Just ordered 1280 with T5.. and wonder if leaving grill on helps with this?
Hi I'm now subbed and will be implementing this onto some older designs as I collect 70s audio to
I have an old Dunlavy SC lll speakers
You should see how the intergrate their tweeter to the enclosure! Great vid with good valuable information 👍
Thanks you so much for coining the term 'equalizable'. This explains alot.
I've been wondering about another possible source of nonlinearities, namely the inherent discontinuity around the perimeter of a driver. Does the slope of the gradient of linear displacement---essentially the width of the surround---influence sound quality on and/or off axis? And if so, does this mean that larger diameter drivers (and flat panels) have an advantage in this respect in that their ratio of piston area (linear) to perimeter (nonlinear) is greater? This question would also relate to waveguides and compression horns where the potential perimeter edge diffraction or turbulence or whatever may be influenced by interaction with engineered physical boundaries: lenses, throats, and phase plugs.
Now I went back to check the spinorama of Edifier 1280T and it seems to have the exact issue at the treble. Interesting.
First timer here.
Like others pointed out. Who cares if it is not new information?
It's your interpretation of this fact and as for me I was very pleased with your way of putting things in perspective.
This will help in my first build I guess!
Does this apply to woofers or mids as well? Saw some where tweet is flush but woofer is not. Also some vintage speakers have the entire baffle inset.
Not being an audiophile, the Edifier powered speakers sound good paired with my computer.
Does this only go for dome shaped tweeters? or are more traditionally shaped paper cone tweeters also affected? My technics sb-a55 speakers sound really good to me, but they have huge surface mounted rims around the drivers, massive plastic rings that the speakers are recessed into.
actually you would want every speaker driver to be flush mounted. in reality... makes little difference if any . but its a nice touch.
Magnepan- surface, baffle mount? Psh.
Kef uni-q drivers-np, mount em in the center of the woofer, perfection.
Sooo many different variations. I do like externally mounted tweeters separate from the cabinet alot, especially dipolar ESS etc.
How would you do this with a compression driver? With the horn attached? Or without?
I know this isn’t a subwoofer video but is it possible if you can review the Polk audio HTS12 subwoofer definitely would appreciate it
Great stuff as always! Any plans on getting those JBL 530s on deck for analysis?
Honestly, I don't know. I measured one and the results looked way off. They are used so I am concerned there may be something wrong with them, based on the otherwise good data I've seen elsewhere. I plan to revisit it to make sure it wasn't a setting or a truly busted speaker.
A way to mitigate this issue, especially if you use your speakers with the grills on or just don't care how they look is to tape foam around the tweeter, I did this to a pair of Edifier speakers my brother uses and could notice a clear reduction in the sibilance, I literally took spare foam tape that came as a sealant with the kitchen cooktop and glued around the tweeter it's similar to the foam tape we use to seal speakers in cabinets in DIY and in car audio. It just happens to be of the perfect height and since it's foam, it kinda absorbs a lot of the sound, I don't actually have acess to equipment to measure how much of a difference it made but if you find it interesting, I sure would be interested in seeing this measured, if for nothing else, at least to be sure me and my brother actually heard a difference instead of just falling for placebo effect. I don't think it was placebo, it was a very noticeable difference but it doesn't hurt to be sure.
I don't recall what speaker now, but I've seen a speaker brand integrate foam on the outer edges of their tweeter facia and that gave me this idea.
John Dunlavy patented it.
all that work i put into buying router bits and tools pays off. and its a nice finish.
could someone also mention some options to fix it on existing speakers please?
heard people use felt and stuff like that, even a Dremel with the right bit could do this.
Could radius down the frame (lot of work, structural integrity considerations, debris, permanent mod)
Could hand route your own countersink (possible need to consider z-offset, permanent mod)
Felt could help a bit (see VAF, Duntech speakers, aesthetic considerations)
Could 3D print a radius down to a thin edge (equipment cost + knowledge, aesthetic concerns) Could make this by hand too if you don't mind the work.
So - EVERY auto audio system has the speakers surface mounted, and almost every tweeter is mounted in a pod that sits up to an inch from the surface. There are some very good auto systems out there. I agree with everything you are saying, but there are hundreds of thousands of great sounding systems in all sorts of auto, marine, off road, and aviation with surface mounted speakers! Just being real not trying to argue, as I love your videos.
Great, great information. Thank you.
This mounting design is usually on powered desktop speakers under $200 like the one you show in the video. I have a pair of Edifier R1850DB that I bought on sale at Amazon for $140 a few years ago. It has the tweeter and woofer surface mounted. I use them on my computer desk connected to a DAC into a my desktop computer. It sounds good to me for the price.
What is your dac of choice, I'm doing some research
@GiJoe I use a Schitt Modi for the computer setup.
Really enjoyed this quick 'primer' style video on a specific subject.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge, Erin 👍
Awesome! Thanks for the feedback!
Erin, I have seen some people add stick on foam to the front edges of their cabinets. Does this help with edge diffraction . I will do an experiment with some revel m 105s
Look at Wilson Audio & what we have is "Diffraction City" with their "stacked boxes architecture" - somehow none of the so-called reviewers has called them out on this fundamental design flaw
@@r423sdex it's a "bandaid solution" - extending baffle size in this manner is pretty fugly as well & the extra gain will muck-up the response elsewhere....
Top stuff as always Erin!
I'm a fan of the waveguide mounted tweeter - if implemented well - myself. Get's more efficiency from the tweeter, all things considered
Excellent video. Thank you, Erin
Glad it was helpful!
So I have a pair of JBL L-100 centuries, arguably the most famous speaker ever made and certainly a well designed and great sounding speaker. This speaker has the tweeter and the mid range driver surface mounted as you describe while the woofer is flush mounted.
I think there are many other factors that are far more impactful on the sound of a speaker than whether it’s elements are flush mounted or surface mounted.
I will say it is an interesting exercise in measuring these differences, but by no means is this one characteristic something that should automatically qualify or disqualify a speaker especially without hearing it.
actually the tweeter is flush in the JBL models... the mid range is surface mounted, thogh.... i think it has to be with dispersion
Bose 42 have a strut mounted tweeter.. not even on the box.
The later 4.2 have tweeters on little angled cones, again not box mounted. They seem to be aiming for disconnection.. must be a reason.
data shows how sound is affected here. everyone gets to apply their own confirmation bias in how they want to think toward the data, that is expected. but just bc a speaker is famous doesn’t mean much. speaker design (bc of data) has changed / improved since those jbl designs. if ya like em then that is great. diffraction is def s component of sound though i figure.
What do you think about the b&w tweeter on top? Virtually no baffle.
So, in laypersons terms, the sound wave "trips" on the edge, and the open screw holes, and this causes part of the sound pressure wave to be slightly out of phase with the initial sound pressure wave.
Depending on the frequencies, this may be in phase, or 180 degrees out of phase, which will increase or decrease the strength or the pressure wave (sound level), but will mostly add unwanted interference with the primary sound.
Yep! You got it!
I knew I flush mounted all my speakers for a reason! 😉 good info man, thank you
🤣😅😭
No problem 👍
Excellent info as always man, excellent.
Much appreciated!
Great Video!! Have you ever reviewed the Klipsch Reference RF-7 III tower speaker? Just wondering if they are worth $2200 each. Thanks.
Thank you Erin, very informative !
Glad it was helpful!
Absolute excellent video Erin and well explained..
Did you try to mount tweeter from INSIDE box? Like Canton LE 400. What's gonna happen in this case?
The whole video i was breaking my head what's on your tshirt man .... Thanks a lot for clarifying it's saw dust. Now I'm at peace 😂😂😂😂👍👍👍👍
i saw some manufacturers and diy'ers put foam around the tweeter, even tho they are flush mounted. saw it on old jbl's, rogers and even recent elac speakers
how does this impact the sound and measurements?
It would depend on the radiation and the thickness/material. I suppose they are trying to absorb the sound that is radiated toward the edges (which would end up as diffraction). But maybe there's a different rationale there.
Erin, what about Paradigm Reference Studio Series speakers? They all had tweeters on a protruding plate. But with a grill in place they could be kind of flush mounted.
That should measure close to flashed mounting.
Could use much more visual reference for flush mounted designs here vs the other just to make sure we can tell the difference but this great, loving your channel for certain (I just don’t have energy to do this + visit your site is all).
unclear if is this applies mostly to treaters or can it apply to everything / woofers ?
Good point! However, the Dome Tweeter is the Main reason that high end dynamic speakers have put high end audio back back 40 yrs! never been able to compete with good ribbon,or Horn Designs.I have some of the best sounding Dome Tweeter designed speakers in the industry! NO. 1; Celestion,Who Designed the first Metal Dome! That incorporated a slotted waveguide over the dome to minimize vertical reflection problems! NO.2; JM LAB/ FOCAL,who redesigned the Dome Tweeter,Creating a reverse dome that doesn't see the baffle at all! Used In Most Wilson Audio designs ( I have FOCAL Speakers ,and Separate Drivers) I build speakers,been doing so for some time! My Best design utilizes a ribbon Tweeter that also can't see the Baffle,and Horns,that also can't see the Baffle! So who Cares if a convex Dome is Flush Mounted or Not? It still has diffraction issues!
is this true for tweeters/high frequencies only or does it apply to midranges and woofers as well?
Blimey I don't think I have seen a speaker with mid range for years.
I noticed that your scanning microphone was working very close to the tweeter, where you might expect diffraction effects to be the greatest. Also it didn’t seem like your apparatus had enough vertical travel to represent typical listening distances. Does the uneven response hold as you move out away from the speaker, or does it smooth back out? Your graphs likewise gave no distances.
The graphs state "2.83v @ 1m" on the y-axis. As for how the NFS works, check out this discussion with the design engineer: ruclips.net/video/-s-R1HCYUYs/видео.html
My Klipsch KG2s use flush mounted drivers (with the woofer overlapping the tweeter). There was clearly a lot of effort put into designing these, and they weren't low budget speakers designed around production cost. Now, the tweeter is horn loaded, which changes the equation a bit. My opinion (everyone has one) is that the room is the elephant in the room. You won't hear the difference in baffle configuration if your room is not good.
I'm new to audiophile quality, so I just did a double-take on two recent used purchases - a pair of Mission and M-Audio - and both are flush mounted! Sigh of relief - lol.
LOL. Awesome, man! Whew!
Thanks, appreciate learning from your channel
Now, what about front foam surround Klipsch used on my Cornwall Iv… and why do manufacturers front mount bass woofer? Please comment. To increase bass guitar cabs “inside mount woofers
Depends on the thickness of the foam relative to the wavelength.
Good topic. Learnt imp point. Helps me to making better speakers.
Excellent
Should I do the same with woofers and midrange?
Hello, what if the front speaker panel is covered by carpet to reduce corner diffractions?
The truth is: it depends. Different frequencies, different thickness of carpet and the size of the radiating surface all factor in.
What happens when you go in the opposite direction and overly recess the tweeter - say, as in KEF's coaxial setup?
The material around the tweeter becomes a waveguide
Anyways, that Edifier speaker is not classified as a hi-fi product. More likely a midclass computer speaker. I have one 😅
You should go over bad speakers configurations. Example like midwoofer tweeter woofer.
Been building, designing audio since
1971,retired now, in wheelchair, took a month to build last system, new tactics for good construction. 2.1 's only. I vulture tech, and DIY like the Chinese
And also equalizable word should be recommended to be added to dictionary your honour 😊😊!!! Jokes apart ... Great job Erin !!! Love your objective measurements, explanation and videos 👍👍👍😊
This may be true with most speakers, but Tekton Designs has surface mounted tweeters on their speakers and they are amazing so how is that?
That Peerless DX25 is a good value priced tweeter. Been using them for years.
Thanks for sharing.
Great video. Could you use a little bit thicker lines on the charts, they are quite difficult to see. thanks
Love a video where the first 5 seconds is all I need to watch.
What would be the effect of making the tweeter flush by sticking like foam or something to the face of the baffle to make it flush? 🤔
I'm aware u can't move the tweeter or alignment will be out...
4-5mm won't make that much difference in overall freq response, maybe 1/4 of dB
There is a term in speaker jargon called "fatiguing". An overdriven, poor speaker may not sound bad at first listen, but makes the ears tired over time and not a joy to listen to. Well designed speakers don't do that. I'm guessing the flush mount is one of those subtle things you may not instantly hear. Now I need to rebuild my first speaker boxes and see. The sound is pretty dang good, but the enclosures could be better.
I wonder how much of a difference would it make if a mid woofer is surface mounted or flush mounted?
It will also have an effect of course. I would say mount it in a way it best matches the tweeter in phase response. It's better to have a bit of diffraction than mismatched phase responses.
Erin. Your content is amazing. Full stop.
Wow, thank you!
Good piece of information. Subbed. 👍
Excellent video!
Thank you! Cheers!
What happens if I flush mounted but have a small 2-3mm gap between the driver surround and the baffle? Does it act like the baffle edge?
That small of a gap shouldn't create a significant problem. If you're saying 'surround' I'm assuming you're talking about a midwoofer or midrange in which case it's probably beaming before that 2-3mm would matter. But that's a guess and not a fact.
@@ErinsAudioCorner it's a full range 8" driver to clarify the edge of the mounting basket is what I was referring to
This is true. many moons ago, a good Danish Hi-Fi magazine tested a bunch of speakers vs the same speakers with an experimental
30mm rockwool damper front with cutout holes for the speakers and verified a dramatic increase in sound quality due to the sudden
loss of edge difraction, Verified by very accurate and detailed measurements. The effect was described as switching from a cheap
speaker to an electrostatic one, and Its true.
Does this affect only tweeters or is it also for midbass and or midrange drivers that aren't flushed mounted?
Good queston. Dunlavy put felt around both the tweeter and the mids.
Would you say this applies to horn tweeters as well
Yes.