First clip INFJ based on conversational phrasing: a continuum of being, vast expanse, consciousness grid. In other words he has a vision he is trying to express. INFP phrasing: make uncomfortable, think differently, "that's how I felt making it ", wide array of feeling. In other words digging deep into the character's feelings gives greater insight.
@@ArmChairTypology I had the same conclusion. What struck me was how Alex can barely find the words to convey an abstract, transcendental experience while Joaquin has no problem whatsoever making you uncomfortable as Joker. You can feel the withdrawal with Joaquin. No concern for objective feeling, so when he does bring out his refined subjective expression it grates against the objective in a variety of interesting ways.
@@xaosects "What struck me was how Alex can barely find the words to convey an abstract, transcendental experience" No one can, if they truly had an experience beyond the body-mind conditioned entity ( aka "Person" ), it is utterly impossible to convey such an "experience" of Being. It goes way beyond the limitations of the psychological mind and personal identity. Pure experiencing, without intellectual conviction and/or grasp of "what is going on" whatsoever, cannot be uttered by anyone, unless they are "enlightened" and can make sense of it through words in a somewhat coherent way, that resonates with all beings on a "soul level", which once again is beyond the contracted, limited psyche. In other words, none of the "16 types" if you will could truly convey what Alex is talking about. Comparing the two, putting things into the right context, what Joaquin is talking about is a very "human" surface level thing, and what Alex is trying to talk about is like you said - transcendental, beyond Mind. The mind surely likes to try to make the experience its own though, and make sense of it. That is the nature of the mind phenomena. Agree with what you are saying though.
I definitely related to the first clip. "You can have these visions but then like how do you translate them into something that you can share with people." I'm a visual/image based thinker, it's often times hard to articulate whatever is on my mind. It's difficult to find the right words or explain my thought process to people. Some times, I have to use layman's terms to get someone to understand what I'm talking about or else I get looks like I'm speaking a different language or something.
This was great. I wasnt sure what type the first guy was, and he seemed to be struggling to describe the concept with his logic. PHENOIX Id heard was likely INFP but what dawned on me the most was how he described he updated his feeling after studying different individuals. This is a great way to id infp, at least. They have the potential to update their feelings once they've gone all the way down to Te. Pretty cool tell, I think.
Well, since we are only choosing between 2 types it becomes very easy that the first one is clearly the INFJ and the second one clearly the INFP. You can tell that the first one has something much bigger in his head but is trying hard to put into terms others can understand. The second one makes clear that internal personal feelings is what moves him in life. This was almost too easy :( in real life it's usually not this easy to differentiate :/
Typing someone aint rocket science fam, there's a few things to look out for and you're golden. Especially if you have it narrowed down to two different types.
Joaquin Phoenix is the prototypical INFP. I hear the Fi when he discusses how he, as the subject, feels about things and how his feelings changed as a result of experiences. Whereas the other gentleman in the video seemed more lost in intuitive imagination (if that makes sense) or creative intuitions, instead of the moral compass that is driving Phoenix.
Thanks for the comment Jonathan I think this is very solidly reasoned based on the book excerpts. I'll probably make more videos like this because it's similar to how I type using textbooks.
What personality type you think that Harry from cognitive personality theory is? He says that he is an INFJ, and you would say that his system is pretty well structured at first. But I don't think that it holds it in the longer run. Especially when being aware of the fact that we lie to ourselves so efficiently by projecting our own personal world unto others. His logic, while it does hold to a certain point in his system, when you take it as a whole in regards to other systems, it doesn't hold. It's like making your own rules for winning a game. And since INTJs have Fe trickster I would argue that they can play the appearances game through their own logic. And also, his logic is too objective for an INFJ. My INFp(MBTY INFJ) can't stay in a debate and he uses emotional arguments and Ti group differentiation and intuitions in order to fulfill his Fi critic agenda that cares about himself by putting up a facade of Fe. While I will have those intuitions, but I will research and verify if they are true. Exactly like Harry does. My argument for his use of Fe trickster is that he is in the process of individuation and so he uses his main functions properly. While his shadow functions are seen only by himself. Others don't have the access to them. I will give you an example. Since I'm in my depression, I will make subjectively objective opinions, but when I take the time to deliberately organize my thoughts, it will sound as very objective and matter of fact. And here Fe trickster will kick in as when I will want to appear more emotional, the parent function would force me to be even more objective. An example would be that if someone talks about my issues and it's pitying me emotionally, the authority or parent function, would force me to make an argument of why the things that happened to me are not acuallly bad, but they are indeed good to me as they make me grow(entp devils advocate unconscious). While if my emotions will be invalidated logically, then I will make a point to prove that my emotions are indeed logical based on my vague framework and mostly intuitions. And also, when an INTJ accesses his ISFJ super ego, I would argue that he may appear as an INFJ. So what do you think? Also, I have checked socionics Victor Gulenko profiles and I think that they are pretty good, but the theory I don't think that's actually based on how things really are, even if the results may be. Sorry for making such a long response, but I wanted to give out all the necessary details. I will be waiting for a response from you!
In the video I posed a question regarding the artist Alex Grey and actor Joaquin Phoenix. I like to keep the discussion to celebrities because large amounts of people are aware of them. What might help is using the video to learn how to type celebs so you can then apply that to friends etc.
I find this really interesting. If I understood it right, you are typing Harry as an INTJ, right? I could relate with the examples you've given and I've been wondering if I really am an INFJ accessing my ISTJ super ego or an INTJ accessing my ISFJ super ego.
@@annonymusprime5795 Interesting indeed. I was "not sure" about his type either. Seeeeems like an INFJ, but something in me didn't "feel it", the vibe, the INFJ energy fully the first video and videoS I saw of him. I might have a look again with INTJ in mind and see what is .. intuited :)
First clip INFJ based on conversational phrasing: a continuum of being, vast expanse, consciousness grid.
In other words he has a vision he is trying to express.
INFP phrasing: make uncomfortable, think differently, "that's how I felt making it ", wide array of feeling. In other words digging deep into the character's feelings gives greater insight.
Thanks again for playing along Miriam, how cool is it that you can match clips of people talking now to a book that was written decades ago??
I’d guess the first clip was an INFJ and the second clip was an INFP.
Thanks for participating, do you remember a certain part from the book that really stood out to you when making your guess?
@@ArmChairTypology I had the same conclusion. What struck me was how Alex can barely find the words to convey an abstract, transcendental experience while Joaquin has no problem whatsoever making you uncomfortable as Joker. You can feel the withdrawal with Joaquin. No concern for objective feeling, so when he does bring out his refined subjective expression it grates against the objective in a variety of interesting ways.
@@xaosects Thanks for this comment, I think you've made some great points here.
@@xaosects "What struck me was how Alex can barely find the words to convey an abstract, transcendental experience" No one can, if they truly had an experience beyond the body-mind conditioned entity ( aka "Person" ), it is utterly impossible to convey such an "experience" of Being. It goes way beyond the limitations of the psychological mind and personal identity.
Pure experiencing, without intellectual conviction and/or grasp of "what is going on" whatsoever, cannot be uttered by anyone, unless they are "enlightened" and can make sense of it through words in a somewhat coherent way, that resonates with all beings on a "soul level", which once again is beyond the contracted, limited psyche.
In other words, none of the "16 types" if you will could truly convey what Alex is talking about.
Comparing the two, putting things into the right context, what Joaquin is talking about is a very "human" surface level thing, and what Alex is trying to talk about is like you said - transcendental, beyond Mind. The mind surely likes to try to make the experience its own though, and make sense of it. That is the nature of the mind phenomena.
Agree with what you are saying though.
And, I love Joaquin as an actor. He's got some quite humane ethics too.
I definitely related to the first clip. "You can have these visions but then like how do you translate them into something that you can share with people." I'm a visual/image based thinker, it's often times hard to articulate whatever is on my mind. It's difficult to find the right words or explain my thought process to people. Some times, I have to use layman's terms to get someone to understand what I'm talking about or else I get looks like I'm speaking a different language or something.
This was great. I wasnt sure what type the first guy was, and he seemed to be struggling to describe the concept with his logic. PHENOIX Id heard was likely INFP but what dawned on me the most was how he described he updated his feeling after studying different individuals. This is a great way to id infp, at least. They have the potential to update their feelings once they've gone all the way down to Te. Pretty cool tell, I think.
Well, since we are only choosing between 2 types it becomes very easy that the first one is clearly the INFJ and the second one clearly the INFP.
You can tell that the first one has something much bigger in his head but is trying hard to put into terms others can understand. The second one makes clear that internal personal feelings is what moves him in life.
This was almost too easy :( in real life it's usually not this easy to differentiate :/
Typing someone aint rocket science fam, there's a few things to look out for and you're golden. Especially if you have it narrowed down to two different types.
Joaquin Phoenix is the prototypical INFP. I hear the Fi when he discusses how he, as the subject, feels about things and how his feelings changed as a result of experiences. Whereas the other gentleman in the video seemed more lost in intuitive imagination (if that makes sense) or creative intuitions, instead of the moral compass that is driving Phoenix.
Thanks for the comment Jonathan I think this is very solidly reasoned based on the book excerpts.
I'll probably make more videos like this because it's similar to how I type using textbooks.
First one Ne Fi Te Si, second one Fi Ni Se Te
What personality type you think that Harry from cognitive personality theory is? He says that he is an INFJ, and you would say that his system is pretty well structured at first. But I don't think that it holds it in the longer run. Especially when being aware of the fact that we lie to ourselves so efficiently by projecting our own personal world unto others.
His logic, while it does hold to a certain point in his system, when you take it as a whole in regards to other systems, it doesn't hold. It's like making your own rules for winning a game.
And since INTJs have Fe trickster I would argue that they can play the appearances game through their own logic.
And also, his logic is too objective for an INFJ. My INFp(MBTY INFJ) can't stay in a debate and he uses emotional arguments and Ti group differentiation and intuitions in order to fulfill his Fi critic agenda that cares about himself by putting up a facade of Fe. While I will have those intuitions, but I will research and verify if they are true. Exactly like Harry does.
My argument for his use of Fe trickster is that he is in the process of individuation and so he uses his main functions properly. While his shadow functions are seen only by himself. Others don't have the access to them.
I will give you an example. Since I'm in my depression, I will make subjectively objective opinions, but when I take the time to deliberately organize my thoughts, it will sound as very objective and matter of fact. And here Fe trickster will kick in as when I will want to appear more emotional, the parent function would force me to be even more objective.
An example would be that if someone talks about my issues and it's pitying me emotionally, the authority or parent function, would force me to make an argument of why the things that happened to me are not acuallly bad, but they are indeed good to me as they make me grow(entp devils advocate unconscious).
While if my emotions will be invalidated logically, then I will make a point to prove that my emotions are indeed logical based on my vague framework and mostly intuitions.
And also, when an INTJ accesses his ISFJ super ego, I would argue that he may appear as an INFJ.
So what do you think?
Also, I have checked socionics Victor Gulenko profiles and I think that they are pretty good, but the theory I don't think that's actually based on how things really are, even if the results may be.
Sorry for making such a long response, but I wanted to give out all the necessary details.
I will be waiting for a response from you!
In the video I posed a question regarding the artist Alex Grey and actor Joaquin Phoenix.
I like to keep the discussion to celebrities because large amounts of people are aware of them. What might help is using the video to learn how to type celebs so you can then apply that to friends etc.
I find this really interesting. If I understood it right, you are typing Harry as an INTJ, right? I could relate with the examples you've given and I've been wondering if I really am an INFJ accessing my ISTJ super ego or an INTJ accessing my ISFJ super ego.
@@lonemaven I'm glad that you found that usefull!
I may be wrong about those things, but those are my observations till now.
@@annonymusprime5795 Interesting indeed. I was "not sure" about his type either. Seeeeems like an INFJ, but something in me didn't "feel it", the vibe, the INFJ energy fully the first video and videoS I saw of him. I might have a look again with INTJ in mind and see what is .. intuited :)
"Sorry for making such a long response, but I wanted to give out all the necessary details." yeah