Dodging with Swords
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 7 июн 2021
- join us as we talk about why dodging is not a great idea with swords.
if you like this or any of our other videos, please consider supporting us on Patreon!
/ sellswordarts 
Развлечения
Развлечения
where the s at?
People who think you can dodge sword attacks also think they weigh like a sledgehammer and you have to swing it full force every time
I can do it with Federschwerter. Fuck, boxer can do it with fist, which are way faster. MMA fighters can do it with kicks.
@@magnajota4341 try changing a punch or a kick's trayectory mid attack and see how that works.
You can dodge a sword attack, just not using the dodges they showed. Like moving your head out of the way for a thrust. Or leaning back to save yourself from a cut.
@@Goldenleyend yeah, hammer fist after you mist a hab or a heel kick from a missed sidekick
Boxing is actually not faster than swordplay. The average speed of a boxer's punch is 25 mph with the average speed of a sword cut is 48 mph if you account for the reach and the way is sword can change directions, you have a whole other ball game going on. Additionally, when boxers dodge, slip, or Bob and weave they always have their guard up, use a wing block, or redirect the punch. No one's just dodging without a defensive maneuver.
Leaning backwards is a retreating action. We talked about that in the video, a retreat is always a valid way to get away from an attack. However moving laterally alone is not enough to evade a sword strike, not consistently. When playing with swords why gamble? Just make the parry as well
Full video is 10 times better than the short. The extra details and parry demonsrations are excellent and there's a section that kinda explains why he's not doing full or half swings when you're just dodging, if he were to change trajectory mid swing it could hit you harder since its more difficult to pull blows like that than the ones he ends up using in the video.
If only dodge roll had invincibility frames in real life it would have worked but sadly rolling doesn't work 😂
You‘re having way too much fun xD
4:23 wait, where are the invulnerability fraims?
Yes
You aren’t Dante who can somehow dodge roll at Mach 5, you’re human who weighs a reasonable amount, dodging ain’t too viable
London survival guide
underrated comment
roadman
These damned brigands!
As a former taekwondo fighter, I seriously tought that it was possible to evade a sword attack. Perhaps using the tkd stance would make it “easier”, but as you’ve shown there, correcting the path makes a whole difference.
Fun experiment! Love your videos bro.
I feel like the sidestep and dodges probably work better when the other person doesn’t know that’s what you’re trying to do.
A strategy that relies upon the inexperience of your opponent is not a good strategy.
@@AGrayPhantom It has nothing to do with inexperience
This is true. But it might be unsafe to give a person a weapon as they might not only be able to hurt him but themselves
Mentioning Dark Souls and Bloodborne got you an instant subscription lmao.
*This shit was so fun to watch.*
No sword or weapons expert, just a guy posing a question for curiosity:
Isn't dodging diagonally more effective? A movement that can get you off the center as well as *potentially* out of the way of sudden trajectory changes and inside their defenses?
I guess it would be less of a dodge and more of a positioning maneuver, but just my question.
I think the space you cover horizontally is still wasted, you wont get out of the way of the sword as hard as you try. Might as well invest all that movement into a backwards motion. But I'll have to hear what an expert says about it
I use it a lot, it needs practice but works perfectly. Saying dodging doesn't work because of their body weight never did or saw boxing. Dodging is quite important actually in fencing.
@@magnajota4341 fencing and sabers are totally different from a sword fight 1 they are not fighting on a plane 2 the sabers only pierce at the tip no cutting at the side of the blade
@@privacyplease5164 i do sword fencing with an anderthalbhänder to be precise. Fencing means just fighting with weapons, fighting and fencing both have their root in Fechten. I did both on my lifetime.
If you're talking about backwards and to the side, then yes this can be effective because you are moving away from your opponent therefore increasing the distance. If you're purely moving sideways and not increasing the distance, you should pair it with a defensive action.
A very useful video. Thank you.
Great video! Do you have any videos planned where you try using the different types of katana?
Glad to hear you guys recognize the odd dodge+parry or occasional genuine dodge
Love you're laugh man, cool video.
Good LORD, I fancy this man.
Love you guys
them dudes be having so much fun XD
I know its not practical. But I do think, a little, that something like this could work if your opponent is using a heavy weapon and actually committed to their attack. In this he is clearly moving slower, giving him more directional control of the weapon.
But also, no one with any weapons training would be attacking that recklessly in the first place.
The "heavy weapon" is not as heavy and slow as you think. A heavy weapon is called a heavy weapon because of where the center of gravity is located, not because it weighs as ridiculously heavy as 20 kilos
This is so heavily misunderstood
Weapons never really got heavier than like 7 pounds so the idea of heavy weapons is rather untrue
@@Kingdomkey123678
Facts.
A greatsword wouldn't even weigh more than 11 lbs
Your comment shows how inexperienced you are.
First off, I love your channel so far.
Coming from experience with Japanese arts, there are a few reasons this isn't working for you.
1) You're moving too early when "dodging." That's why he can still track and hit you. It's all about timing and angles; distance, time, and space. You can't appear to be moving until the moment he is committed to striking that spot.
2) You're leading your "dodges" with your upper body instead of your legs. This compromises your spine, leaving you in poor position and unable to move a second time.
I hate to use the term "dodging," because it's more like chess. Deceptive movements designed to open your opponent's stance/position for a decisive strike. This is something that has to be trained slowly. Like, slow motion. Otherwise you won't develop the muscle memory for it and do one or both of the mistakes above.
A huge difference between the styles is the walking mechanic, though. Western styles have push step walking mechanics, while Japanese styles have pull steps. Push steps: your center of gravity moves before, or at the same time as, your step. Your foot pushes your body where you want it. Pull steps: your foot moves first, and your body is pulled into position by the leg after the step is placed. The main difference this accomplishes is moving the moment of commitment back farther, giving you more time to decide what to do. It also initiates movement while keeping your body, the target, seemingly in the same place for long enough that your opponent commits to the strike instead of just doing a testing cut.
I'll try to describe a kata for the "dodge." The basic version we learned first is moving sideways, 90 degrees instead of the preferred 45 degrees. Start with an open stance, feet in a line perpendicular to the opponent's line of attack. Facing him like you're just standing. Opponent starts in an upper guard and does a vertical strike or thrust. You start to squat a bit while cross stepping off to your right side with your left foot behind the right. Torso is pulled out of line just as the swing is about to land. As that happens, right foot takes a second step the same direction. Opponent begins sweeping his sword left in a horizontal slash to the right side of your torso, with or without stepping left with their back foot. Your left foot is picked up and placed shoulder width from right foot, and feet in line but parallel to opponent's initial attacking line, and torso moves out of the way just as the slash comes, missing by a hair. You hit his head. Because of the angles, he just missed, but his head is in range of your sword. If you are late on your swing, he can swing again with a small step and hit you.
The big thing here is that you have to draw him into full cuts with your body language. He has to believe you are totally vulnerable while he attacks, otherwise he won't commit, and you'll have to do something else.
Most of the "dodging" is 45 degree angles backward or forward. That's a lot safer. And, like you said, it's not dodging. But it looks like dodging, which I think is what people were talking about when you made this video. It's a totally different style of movement that you're not gonna be able to do without a coach and a lot of practice, tbh.
I am gonna start getting into HEMA stuff because of your videos. I want to learn those styles and see if I can incorporate any of my Japanese styles into it. Keep up the good work!
How long is the endlag per m1?
Can you try doing the reverse grip takedown from assassins creed origins plz
Totally evading an attack is a nice concept, but keeping some mass that isn't your own body between you and your opponent's weapon definitely seems like a better idea.
...but can you dodge a reverse-grip attack?
Do you think it would work if they were useing a huge club and or sword?
I'm not sure what exactly you mean, but if you are imagining some kind of huge club like the huge wooden clubs in dark souls 3 or something, then maybe, but only because parrying might not work with something really really heavy. Longswords can take some abuse and are pretty robust, but if I envision trying to take a straight parry with one against like a huge videogame two handed club mace thing or even something historical like a huge polearm, it doesn't seem like a great idea. Not because it'd break the sword or anything, but because it might not have the mass to parry it effectively. I guess in that case you might have no choice but to dodge. It all depends on the thing you are dodging. If the thing you are trying to dodge can change directions quickly, then dodge backwards. If not, a dodge to the side might work if it is a straight down blow, but I'm not really sure what kind of weapon someone would be fighting you with that cannot change directions if the person dodges a bit to the side. Also do not discount the possibility of closing distance so the person can't effectively use the long weapon. But then again even doing that, someone with a large great sword who is a good fighter probably wouldn't be afraid to smash your face with the guard or pommel if you close in and they can manage it. So much context....
The "huge club" in real life is not similar to that of Dark Souls' Large Club or Dragon's Tooth. Huge clubs need to have the optimal balance of speed, weight and center of gravity to be an effective weapon. IRL nobody will ever dare to use those Dark Souls weapons because it already takes vastly more effort than an average human being has to able to lift the Dragon's Tooth let alone use in on a fight. Also, Dark Souls' combat system ain't realistic enough to be the basis of real life duel/battle. That's common sense.
@@aaronjacobamadorsalazar1934 No shit.
No, anything you can use as an effective melee weapon would be impossible to dodge with out parrying in some way.
I am not an expert in sword fighting techniques.. but by pure logic.. if someone is attacking you with a huge club...that is a giant wooden piece of a tree ( like the one you see at a lumber yard or something ..just shorter )... that is heavy and for that person even to pick up that has to be strong... now parrying with a sword wont work i think... but still wouldn't be better to just throw yourself straight at the attacker.. it is a blunt weapon so it cant cut you and maybe you can knock him on the ground because holding something that heavy makes you less stable. Unless the attacker is really really strong...
Against an opponent who is not expecting you to dodge, (surprise buys time in the OODA loop), and using a very close dodge, (their strike narrowly misses, say by a few inches by leaning or tilting away from the strike without much telegraphing, or picking up a leg over a low swing, can be effective. IF, you are using the opening to launch a quick strike of your own simultaneously, immediately followed by a defensive action to make up for the opponent's adjustment. Dodging alone is a waste of energy and time. Even the best dodgers or blockers can't dodge and block everything forever. Even then, dodging is a high risk, high reward tactic. It inherently leaves you very vulnerable to trading. It's also much more effective when you are fighting close to your opponent's maximum reach anyway.
Back step to properly dodge the sword i think
Because out of reach
I think a lot of people in the comments are kinda missing the main point they're trying to make: There's no win-state to dodging and weaving in sword fights. If ya dodge towards the swing, the opponent just switches to a quick thrust. if you dodge along the trajectory of the swing they only need to follow through with the hit.
Mofos need to get off that anime high and come back down to reality. The human body doesn't do rapid full body maneuvers very well.
Top
If I see defense to be more important while intoxicated I might as well have a shield 🛡️
How efficient is dodge "to" attacker instead "from" him?
Less effective, since you’re closing the distance and like he said, the sword weighs less then a human
@@origamiman7891 You didn't get it.
A sword is a lever. When you make a little move on the grip, you have a so much larger move on the tip in the same time slice, and that make the sword so fast.
Why this happen? Because velocity is a function of distance traveled over time: v = d / t. If you move the grip by 1cm in 1 second, this is slow. But because the sword is a lever, this make the tip moves about 1m in the same second, and this is very fast.
The most dangerous part of a moving sword is the tip
As you get closer and closer to the fulcrum (the grip) this move is becoming slower.
And that is the idea to dodge forward, instead back. You are avoiding the fast tip going to the slower grip.
If you practice HEMA, you notice that is very hard make a decent blow when the target is over you. Is better you try a slice instead, because the middle of the blade have not enough power.
@@renascienza.bazarclub that is true, however still not effective
1. He can still attack you while you’re rolling towards him
2. He can retreat far enough away to stab you while you’re on the ground so the tip of the blade is at his neck
3. He can grab a knife and stab you while you’re rolling
4. Even if the top 3 don’t happen, you’re also carrying a blade and the same logic will apply to you and you’re only option is to attack their legs, and to get an effective hit, you would need a large swing since a little cut won’t do much. The target would have prob used a knife to stab you or a large, downward stab to take you out.
@@origamiman7891 Dude, I tested in real life. I practice HEMA. Let me show you what happens in practice:
1. Your foe can still attack, but is not effective as could if you are in the tip reach (as I already said).
2. Nobody perform a cut at static position, without moving forward (because if you do, you have no target). Your opponent is going to you, and is impossible go forward and backward at the same time. So your opponent will not retreat.
This is about the guard position as well. You can't be foolish to go after someone armed with a sword, static in front of you. He just need "present the tip" to get you. You need to wait for a move (the tip goes outside of attack line, and the body goes forward. This is the most vulnerable moment of any attack)
3. "He can grab a knife": Yes, he can also grab a pistol, a nunchacku, a whip, a bazooka... But we are talking about swords.
4. I didn't get this, was a very confusing text.
@@renascienza.bazarclub ok. You win
No fim, se dedicar a arte da espada exige o real entendimento de que seu corpo pode ser destruído.
dodging and parrying attacks are effective nothing works solly everywhere since you cant keep just dodging or just parrying cuz youll get catched eventually so instead of doing solly one thing its best to combine and experiment with everything
Videogame logic has really messed a lot of things up.
this is why you can parry in Sekiro
I want to get into HEMA, but I’m not terribly wealthy. What are some good ways to start getting into HEMA if you don’t have a lot of money?
Make more money
I would suggest finding a local club. Either offensing club, historical fencing club, or a hema club. Usually they'll have loaner gear that you can start off with.
Purple Heart armory also makes a series of basic trainers that all cost somewhere in the 30-40 range. They're not balanced, but they're really durable and it's a good way to get started using some of these weapons
@@user-jw6kc6kg2i awesome ideas, I’ll start selling coke
@@user-jw6kc6kg2i amazing advice, I'll start kidnapping people and selling their organs to the black market :D
@@forsaken9676 already been doing that for years.
Your dexterity is obviously 13. Train dexterity to 40-50 and you will dodge better. You will have more luck upon next attacks. So you know how to goings on dark souls
He needs to lower his equip load to get that fast roll
Isnt dodging supposed to only work on a read. Or as a last resort to reposition. In this case he knows you're going to dodge theres no way its gonna work. The point you're trying to make is clear but the demonstration is not appropriate i think.
You can redirect a sword mid swing, you can effectively chase your opponent with the sword until your strike lands and still do lethal damage.
There’s no dodging that so long as you and your opponent can see each other
People just need to distinguish between fighting in games and fighting in real life. Fighting mechanics in games like bloodborne and dark souls are specifically designed to make your character look badass while fighting, but these mechanics just don't work in real world combat because one blow with a sword is always guaranteed to kill.
Honestly not a bad point. While I've got faith these guys know what they're talking about, it would be cool to see these techniques tried on an unsuspecting opponent - someone who doesn't know they'll evade at all. I have doubts, but I'd like to see it!
Well that’s why the roll didn’t work, he was fat rolling 😂
Training for the uk
From software..
You lied to me
Blocking is better than dodging.
Yeah, dodging doesn't quite work. Far too much area to navigate, and the blade is too quick. Evasive footwork combined with defensive techniques though, that's very effective
Dude, it’s totally wrong. You have to use lock on to the opponent first and THEN roll. If you roll at the EXACT time of the attack, you should roll faster. And don’t forget the reverse grip. 😂
It's a male or a female? 😅