Join us as we talk about the mechanics of cutting to the legs if you like this or any of our other videos, please consider supporting us on Patreon! / sellswordarts
hey- i know you posted this about a month ago and probably won’t see this, but i’d really recommend another rpg like Riddle of Steel or GURPS instead of D&D for realistic combat.
In my (limited) experience I see the leg attack more as a punish for ‘improper’ form. The most common reason for me to go for the leg is if the opponent has a habit of leaning back and blocking without stepping. If I notice that I might feint a thrust or high attack into a leg geysel or strike and immediately retreat. Another one is simply if they’re heavy footed, which incidentally is also my own weakness when I get tired, when people lean more forward and thus put more weight on their front foot I might consider a geysel, with or without setup. Of course opportunity and winding are also very legitimate cases, but since you’ve already addressed those I’m not going further into them. Overall a very good video, but I do still feel there is some merit to the leg cut if it’s used as a threat or punish.
I find it can be very successful even with shorter one handed weapons if you initiate your cut towards the head, and if they respond by guarding high while stepping back with the point no longer threatening you it's easy enough to mid-attack shift targets to the now-open leg. As you make contact with the cut you should already be working on moving yourself back out of measure and getting ready to guard against an attack from above, and hopefully your opponent has enough momentum to reverse that they have a hard time chasing you down for an afterblow.
A sport fencer, epee primarily, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. I always thought a leg shot is a bad way to start the engagement. But if you can set it up, like draw his blade out of position, bind up his blade, ect, a leg shot can be effective as the video mentioned already. However, caveat here. Because it is a dumb move, people tend not to expect it, so the move can work by taking people by surprise. And if it works, the move is not dumb. But... It absolutely does not work on people who see it coming. Which makes it a dumb move. So take that as you will.
We actually do talk about binding into the leg. It's a lot easier on the thrust especially when you've already dealt with your opponent's attack. And you're right, I would not open with a cut to the leg. I will also say that with a thrusting weapon it's a little bit less dangerous to go for the leg especially after a bind. You don't have to worry about the other person disengaging and cutting you.
@@SellswordArts Oh hi! I wasn't expecting you to respond. Usually just a random youtuber than the channel itself. Thanks for the comment. Also, I think I should have started with that you absolutely DO talk about binding and other ways to setup for a leg shot. I think that wasn't clear at the end of the paragraph. Agreed on the thrusting vs cutter weapons, on the historical longsword fighting you have cuts and... what's the word for hitting at close range with the hand guard or the pommel? Sorry it's been years since I was in HEMA. But yeah, they would definitely be a black card in sport fencing.
You know what is funny? Cutting the legs can be actually useful against opponents with sheilds. As that guy, most of the cuts I get are in my legs. Also, having a shield makes it possible to do a leg cut, if you can cover your lean properly and opponent doesn't expect that.
Sure but the point/ intention may not always be maximum damage output. Maybe he just wants to incapacitate the opponent without doing lethal damage (instantly). For example if a director wanted a realistic non-leathal takedown for a movie scene this choreograhpy would be perfect.
I teach Bolo. We strike the legs all the time, and I've had plenty of success with it in tournaments. Here is another system's point of view across a large set of weapons including single sword, sword and buckler, and longsword. 1) Don't lead with strikes to the legs for the reason's you have stated. 2) Hitting the leg is not always the goal, sometimes it is done at the edge of measure to keep distance. 3) Feint high moving offline with either a thrust or cut, strike low. Must have some sort of assessment of how your opponent reacts beforehand so you don't eat a thrust, as with any feint. 4) After the low cut, immediately withdraw bringing the sword high, either with a cut or moving to a hanging guard. 5) Your distance and footwork is as much of a defense as the sword. If you aren't moving offline with attacks to the leg, you are gonna eat a cut, or thrust. 6) With descending cuts the option does exist of changing the target mid cut from a high target to a low one. For historical reference you can look at the duel between Jarnac and Chateigneraie, where Jarnac disabled his opponent with repeated cuts to the leg. In Manciolino's Opera Nova he mentions something about in a fencing match the feet are worth double points because they are so hard to hit. Most of his leg attacks appear to be directed at the upper thigh.
We actually talk about some of the things that you say in the video, as we don't say that leg cuts are inherently useless we just say they should not be your initial attack. We treat them more as an attack of opportunity, or as a secondary target for either a faint what have you. With a secondary implement such as a parrying dagger or a buckler the game is changed drastically, as you can attack to the leg and still defend the head. With only one weapon, it still leaves you very exposed. Even if you try and quickly move to a high parry. Is it impossible, no, but it puts you a a far higher risk for serious injury to a vital spot. We do go into when it's a good idea further on into the video, but it actually sounds you agree with me but it shouldn't be an initial attack. Whereas I feel like you could wear down your opponent with leg hits like the duel that you mentioned, I would rather try and end the fight quickly by targeting the hands or arms or a major body part. Anytime the opponent still has to move and attack is more risk to you. And while I wouldn't pass up the opportunity to hit the leg if it was given to me, I wouldn't seek it out over other targets. Thank you for your input! I love hearing about other people's experience and training 😁
@UCeZ88eK2p9dLwnVHtwYmNrQ never said they don't know what they're doing, I said it's very risky. I even talk about times when it works. In the video we talk about how someone who opens with an attack to the legs (without a faint or other deception) most likely does not know what they're doing, and I hold of that. It's too easy to counter an attack to the legs with proper distance management, that's why if you're going to make one work you have to employ either trickery, or implement it as a secondary attack.
@@PregnantWhale3000 Bolognese Fencing. A tradition centered around northern Italy from around 15-1600. Ranges from single sword, sword and buckler, sword and dagger, two handed swords, pole arms, and dagger.
Конечно, если стоять на прямых ногах, когда центр тяжести вверху, то неудобно бить в ноги и есть риск получить в голову. Надо всего лишь понизить центр и после удара разорвать дистанцию, чтобы по вам не попали, вот и все. Понятно, что это не приоритетный удар, но в арсенале он должен быть, просто так отказываться глупо.
Whether your legs are straight or bent doesn't matter. It's still a further Target and leaves your head very exposed. Breaking the distance so you don't get hit is a lot harder said than done. We say in the video that you should still have leg hits in your arsenal, but it should never be your primary objective because it's too exposed. If the opportunity presents itself and you can safely execute it then by all means hit the leg, but for all the reasons we enumerated in the video, it is a high-risk low reward attack
I beleive the only time leg shots would really work is if you are dual weilding two weapons. Say the rapier and the dagger. Bund with dagger hit legs with the rapier. Outside of that there's not really many times it can work. You have to keep the longsword busy to not expose yourself with a leg swing.
My brother always goes for the legs when we fight with lightsabers, and then I defeat him every time. I get that he's a bit shorter, but he's leaving all of his vital sections open to getting stabbed or cut.
What if your opponent adopts a really low stance? (playing devil's advocate here) doesn't the geometry favor the person with the lower stance since they can reach out but now you have to reach downward to get to their head.
After more study and work with other coaches I have revised my position on this topic!
Check out the video
ruclips.net/video/_ZfStx2Q8l0/видео.html
Even disregarding the adrenalin that a fight produces, shock alone could stop them from feeling it.
Totally not taking notes for D&D or a story I'm working on - just carry on❤🔥
hey- i know you posted this about a month ago and probably won’t see this, but i’d really recommend another rpg like Riddle of Steel or GURPS instead of D&D for realistic combat.
In my (limited) experience I see the leg attack more as a punish for ‘improper’ form.
The most common reason for me to go for the leg is if the opponent has a habit of leaning back and blocking without stepping. If I notice that I might feint a thrust or high attack into a leg geysel or strike and immediately retreat.
Another one is simply if they’re heavy footed, which incidentally is also my own weakness when I get tired, when people lean more forward and thus put more weight on their front foot I might consider a geysel, with or without setup.
Of course opportunity and winding are also very legitimate cases, but since you’ve already addressed those I’m not going further into them.
Overall a very good video, but I do still feel there is some merit to the leg cut if it’s used as a threat or punish.
I find it can be very successful even with shorter one handed weapons if you initiate your cut towards the head, and if they respond by guarding high while stepping back with the point no longer threatening you it's easy enough to mid-attack shift targets to the now-open leg. As you make contact with the cut you should already be working on moving yourself back out of measure and getting ready to guard against an attack from above, and hopefully your opponent has enough momentum to reverse that they have a hard time chasing you down for an afterblow.
Gladiator
A sport fencer, epee primarily, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. I always thought a leg shot is a bad way to start the engagement. But if you can set it up, like draw his blade out of position, bind up his blade, ect, a leg shot can be effective as the video mentioned already.
However, caveat here. Because it is a dumb move, people tend not to expect it, so the move can work by taking people by surprise. And if it works, the move is not dumb. But... It absolutely does not work on people who see it coming. Which makes it a dumb move. So take that as you will.
We actually do talk about binding into the leg. It's a lot easier on the thrust especially when you've already dealt with your opponent's attack. And you're right, I would not open with a cut to the leg.
I will also say that with a thrusting weapon it's a little bit less dangerous to go for the leg especially after a bind. You don't have to worry about the other person disengaging and cutting you.
@@SellswordArts Oh hi! I wasn't expecting you to respond. Usually just a random youtuber than the channel itself. Thanks for the comment.
Also, I think I should have started with that you absolutely DO talk about binding and other ways to setup for a leg shot. I think that wasn't clear at the end of the paragraph.
Agreed on the thrusting vs cutter weapons, on the historical longsword fighting you have cuts and... what's the word for hitting at close range with the hand guard or the pommel? Sorry it's been years since I was in HEMA. But yeah, they would definitely be a black card in sport fencing.
I love your channel, really interesting content
As an empae fencer I am beyond happy to have found this channel
You know what is funny? Cutting the legs can be actually useful against opponents with sheilds. As that guy, most of the cuts I get are in my legs. Also, having a shield makes it possible to do a leg cut, if you can cover your lean properly and opponent doesn't expect that.
very good information!
The one handed epee fencer attack to the toe is surprisingly effective in hema tournaments
I was there when an epee landed on the leg of an Army fencer that broke and the broken tip penetrated his thigh without his realizing it.
10:20 even with that closing, it's kinda pointless, his entire torso, head and neck were completely open.
Sure but the point/ intention may not always be maximum damage output. Maybe he just wants to incapacitate the opponent without doing lethal damage (instantly). For example if a director wanted a realistic non-leathal takedown for a movie scene this choreograhpy would be perfect.
I teach Bolo. We strike the legs all the time, and I've had plenty of success with it in tournaments. Here is another system's point of view across a large set of weapons including single sword, sword and buckler, and longsword.
1) Don't lead with strikes to the legs for the reason's you have stated.
2) Hitting the leg is not always the goal, sometimes it is done at the edge of measure to keep distance.
3) Feint high moving offline with either a thrust or cut, strike low. Must have some sort of assessment of how your opponent reacts beforehand so you don't eat a thrust, as with any feint.
4) After the low cut, immediately withdraw bringing the sword high, either with a cut or moving to a hanging guard.
5) Your distance and footwork is as much of a defense as the sword. If you aren't moving offline with attacks to the leg, you are gonna eat a cut, or thrust.
6) With descending cuts the option does exist of changing the target mid cut from a high target to a low one.
For historical reference you can look at the duel between Jarnac and Chateigneraie, where Jarnac disabled his opponent with repeated cuts to the leg. In Manciolino's Opera Nova he mentions something about in a fencing match the feet are worth double points because they are so hard to hit. Most of his leg attacks appear to be directed at the upper thigh.
We actually talk about some of the things that you say in the video, as we don't say that leg cuts are inherently useless we just say they should not be your initial attack. We treat them more as an attack of opportunity, or as a secondary target for either a faint what have you.
With a secondary implement such as a parrying dagger or a buckler the game is changed drastically, as you can attack to the leg and still defend the head. With only one weapon, it still leaves you very exposed. Even if you try and quickly move to a high parry. Is it impossible, no, but it puts you a a far higher risk for serious injury to a vital spot.
We do go into when it's a good idea further on into the video, but it actually sounds you agree with me but it shouldn't be an initial attack.
Whereas I feel like you could wear down your opponent with leg hits like the duel that you mentioned, I would rather try and end the fight quickly by targeting the hands or arms or a major body part. Anytime the opponent still has to move and attack is more risk to you. And while I wouldn't pass up the opportunity to hit the leg if it was given to me, I wouldn't seek it out over other targets.
Thank you for your input! I love hearing about other people's experience and training 😁
@UCeZ88eK2p9dLwnVHtwYmNrQ never said they don't know what they're doing, I said it's very risky. I even talk about times when it works. In the video we talk about how someone who opens with an attack to the legs (without a faint or other deception) most likely does not know what they're doing, and I hold of that. It's too easy to counter an attack to the legs with proper distance management, that's why if you're going to make one work you have to employ either trickery, or implement it as a secondary attack.
What's bolo? I'm not familiar with the term
@@PregnantWhale3000 Bolognese Fencing. A tradition centered around northern Italy from around 15-1600. Ranges from single sword, sword and buckler, sword and dagger, two handed swords, pole arms, and dagger.
@@williamphillips4992 Ah, thank you for clarifying!
Конечно, если стоять на прямых ногах, когда центр тяжести вверху, то неудобно бить в ноги и есть риск получить в голову. Надо всего лишь понизить центр и после удара разорвать дистанцию, чтобы по вам не попали, вот и все. Понятно, что это не приоритетный удар, но в арсенале он должен быть, просто так отказываться глупо.
Whether your legs are straight or bent doesn't matter. It's still a further Target and leaves your head very exposed. Breaking the distance so you don't get hit is a lot harder said than done.
We say in the video that you should still have leg hits in your arsenal, but it should never be your primary objective because it's too exposed.
If the opportunity presents itself and you can safely execute it then by all means hit the leg, but for all the reasons we enumerated in the video, it is a high-risk low reward attack
I beleive the only time leg shots would really work is if you are dual weilding two weapons. Say the rapier and the dagger. Bund with dagger hit legs with the rapier. Outside of that there's not really many times it can work. You have to keep the longsword busy to not expose yourself with a leg swing.
It's like cutting your own leg to hit someone, sure u might give him a major bruise but, I'm pretty sure there are better ways...
My brother always goes for the legs when we fight with lightsabers, and then I defeat him every time. I get that he's a bit shorter, but he's leaving all of his vital sections open to getting stabbed or cut.
What if your opponent adopts a really low stance? (playing devil's advocate here) doesn't the geometry favor the person with the lower stance since they can reach out but now you have to reach downward to get to their head.
Show you trying to hit neck but strike leg - works fine, as for me.
I can't even picture how that feint would work without being way too slow
Okay but what about when using a Zweihänder
If your opponent has one too, same problem. Weapons if equal length will always have that problem
Smitten*
That's past tense, he would be smote most mightily.
Can I see some sparring? like more
We have quite a few more videos where we fence. Check out my "sword stuff" playlist 😁
This is stupid - who walks around with swords ⚔️ cmon man - fantasy crap
You are the kind of person to ask if a hotdog is a sandwich