So many episodes I wait to watch thinking "eh, sounds kinda dry, not my thing" and the discussions always end up being SO interesting! Fucking love this podcast!
5:41 Good governance 1) protects private property and individual liberties 2) provides [a system of] justice 3) provides security, and that's it. In my European mindset, consumer and employee protection and safety is a big role of governance which is missing here. Consumer protection accounts for the inevitable imbalance in information and power between producers and consumers, an imbalance which inevitably ruins some of the free market mechanisms.
There are no solutions - only compromises. In exchange for consumer protection you can receive experimental medical treatments that are decades ahead EU. Stem cell treatments, gene therapies and bio-printing are just a few examples that for us Europeans is science fiction.
A big strength and weakness of Singapore is its size. It's a very small island, and this makes managing internal security and implementing consistent infrastructure maintenance a lot more manageable. If you commit a crime, with how small the island is, there's really nowhere for you to hide. This contributed in large part to one of the huge draws of Singapore- stability. At the same time though this also leads into one of the key issues Singapore is facing right now- overcrowding. There's only so much land area they have and only so much land they can reclaim, and right now with 6 million people the populace is feeling that squeeze. The challenge now (among many others of course) for Singapore is how to continue growing its population while working around these physical constraints because realistically speaking, they ain't getting any more territory from its neighbours.
This episode felt weird to me tbh. Other episodes had a great back and forth, but this episode felt like a two hour interrogation where Erudite and Destiny quizzed him, he provided fairly vague answers, and then they moved on to another topic.
1:10:11 the thing to be brought up here is regulations are often written in blood. More often than not when there is a regulation it is because more than one person was harmed or died
1:21:26 ok Triangle Shirt Factory fire would be the one to bring up here, fire regulations to protect workers things like OSHA. I get this guy is very libertarian and I sympathize to a degree (especially when dealing with burgeoning economies) but he is undermining my faith in this projects goals
If regulation makes it so you cannot sue, because the provider was "compliant with the regulations", then picking and choosing regulations makes it EVEN HARDER to sue, because the provider can pick the regulatory system that is cheapest for them, rather than safest for the consumer, but the consumer was "aware of the risks" when they used the functionally unregulated product or service.
You are right, but you left out why would consumer take such risk. The benefit is that you can get medical services that are decades ahead of any other place on earth.
@@3rdHalf1 Barely regulated does not equal advanced. Buying medical equipment from Liberia just because there are few restrictions on what you build and sell does not make Liberia's medical industry super advanced, just super risky
Some things not mentioned: 1) Propspera has and will continue to have veto power in ZEDE as long as it exists, even if the council votes otherwise 2) Unlike anywhere else in Honduras, Prospera doesn't need to be public with how it handles labor disputes 3) It has 120 million in investments, primarily by Peter Thiel, Sam Altman and Marc Andreessen. This is no ESG investment. 4) While yes, half of the employees are Honduran, they have only 58 employees. I can't find anything on the population of the ZEDE, but I can't imagine it is over 100, and I'm not sure that Hondurans are even a majority there. I wish you asked about any of this. Yes, I don't expect a grilling on this show, but at least do some basic research beforehand and ask in a polite way about it.
1) A short look-up of this also shows that above the council (5 elected, 4 appointed by Prospera) is a Committee of Best Practices who are appointed by the Honduras government and have the power to approve internal regulations and provide policy guidance. 2) idk, could be bad. 3) Just because they're not ESG investments doesn't mean they're not beneficial to a country that wouldn't otherwise recieve those investments, or the Honduran people who might benefit from them. 4) Pretty sure that'll grow as the city grows and more investment comes, but in the current situation, not much more is going in due to the uncertainty. I'm not saying this system is perfect but there are very expectable answers and they're not new ideas, there have been very very successful and strong examples of these types of economic zones, like the ones in Dubai, like the one in South Korea, like the ones in China, (Hong Kong, Shanghai and Macau notably) though those have gone backwards somewhat since China has taken more control.
1) misleading. That quasi-veto (it’s not a legal veto pero se, and only holds if all members of the council nominated by Prospera vote in block against some new action or rule) only holds true for a period of time while population builds up. Then, residents can do a referendum and change the charter. Moreover, at any point in time residents have a referendum power that can veto any action by the council (in this case, the veto is indeed enshrined in the Charter). 2) also not true. Labor disputes are in first instance handled by the labor tribunal of the PAC and the proceedings are public, unless both parties agree otherwise (sometimes much preferred by employees who are bringing forth issues they would rather keep private without losing their ability to bring employers to justice). 3) “ESG investing” has been a failure generally IMO, but in any case, Prospera is the epitome of an investment that drives good governance and lifts people up. It is fundamentally about creating the foundations necessary to catalyze prosperity. And it has been working. 4) The people who live inside are indeed less than 500, but that is bc residences are less built than employment opportunities. Thousands of people have jobs thanks to Prospera - even if they live outside for the time being - with minimum wages higher than required outside, and salaries much higher than the national average. More FAQs: www.prospera.co/news/prospera-faqs
I mean based on the responses you can see that the subject is not a very simple one. Even the core that they covered is not sufficient for me an outsider to fully understand how the place operates and what are the nuances of the collaboration between the semi autonomous area and the country. Those questions even though important are digging deeper than the surface and I wouldn't consider them part of "a basic research". If anything I'd say that these few questions would probably make about an hour of a podcast in itself going back and forth.
I don't mind voluntary system. But anyone not paying for those services, should not get benefits from it. For example, educated populus. Company or individual should pay premium for doing anything that involves educated people, if they won't pay taxes that contribite to education. Same is for infrastructure, they should pay individually for every road they use, and ofc, it should be on them to also bear the cost of having systems to charge them for it. Overall, any government service they benefit from, directly on indirectly existing in the country, they have to pay for. I'm not going to call it taxes for their benefit, but lets call payment for government services. I think this is fair deal, as long as company does not interact with the country, they don't have to pay anything. Again, this is not taxes, just compensation paid to the host country for providing platform to do business in.
That sounds fair. It would also logically follow that any country that wishes to take inmigrants should pay beforehand for the education costs to the country of origin as to avoid freeriding. Of course the citizen in question would not be free to leave until the discretionary amount has been paid in full, otherwise it would be an obvious loophole, but worst case scenario you just have to build a wall.
I agree. And that is the way it should work. It’s the way Prospera seeks to operate and does to the full extend permitted legally and in practical terms. Btw when one pays a highly skilled worker a much higher wage than a low skilled one, and 20-30% of the cost is related to payments that go to government, the dynamic you describe is already in play. Something else to consider: if someone can’t opt out of using or receiving a service, then the case to require them to pay is no longer as clear. So I agree with you fully, to the extent that “services” are not imposed. Then it stops being a voluntary exchange. But just as I’m against coercion generally, I’m also against free ridding.
@@FiloVFX That seems like a big limitation on personal freedoms, but okay. We're kind of landlocking everyone into their country of origin by force at this point, as to prevent loopholes you'd also have to prevent tourism, business and all other forms of inter-country travel. Trade seems exploitative too, to transfer goods between countries would inevitably allow businesses and consumers to freeride off of foreign institutions.
@@FiloVFX amongst developed nations United States has some of the highest income inequality amongst its citizens. I think we are perfectly entitled to talk about the merits of a regulated economy.
@@chad872 Are you proving my point or are you trying to flex income inequality? A US citizen explaining the wonders of redistribution to a Venezuelan is a bit tone deaf...
Biology is time-constrained with results. The idea that you can tell something is safe with a high level of confidence in a short period of time is highly relative to the subject you're studying. A better question to pose to both these new sandboxes and old is what mechanisms they use to differentiate?
It sounded interesting but honestly lost the plot with the lack of centralized regulation. By the end of listening it sounds like a tax haven / unregulated labor zone for rapid corporation growth and wealth accumulation. Sounds pretty sketchy tbh but I don't know enough about the country to know if that is somehow still better than the current economic situation they have going on. I'm going to guess long term it is not a good thing, but that's just my opinion.
This shit seems like a bureaucratic and legal disaster waiting to happen. You want foreign regulations enforced and acted on in host nations? And people can just pick and choose which laws they want to follow? What the fuck is the benefit to that insteadnof just changing the laws?
Exactly, this is such a pie in the sky Libertarian snake oil pitch. Why would companies outside of this SEZ play along from a liability standpoint? "I'm sorry, we're being sued by someone who bought our medical device for use in a region where we don't sell it, it was done with drugs that aren't all approved for the procedure in any of the countries where we do sell it, the Doctor who installed it has never interacted with us and therefore hasn't gone though any of our materials and education on our product and they've selected several subsections of our Liability contract from another Country? Have we shredded this letter yet or can we have it framed and hung up in our legal department?" Or the... The backend from the insurance side in this Libertarian Hellscape. Yeah, we'll insure your new age/cutting edge medicine that was developed under an 'à la carte' of International Pharmaceutical regulations incase your cutting of red tape process disastrous. It's not like behaving like such an entity would require us to be insanely expensive from an administrative cost perspective to adequately perform due diligence OR behave like a Finance play that rubber stamps these products without actually doing any of the assumed profit driven / competence market mechanisms holding everyone accountable. This whole thing is a bad joke. Couple that with the feigned concern over their little project being cancelled and getting paid out tens to hundreds of billions of dollars from their 50 year hyper successful forecast ROI on their 150 mil dollar investment. I would have liked to see his response to the suggestion that they simply ask for their actual investment +20% penalty back from the Government so that they can pitch their brilliant and totally not a scam idea somewhere else in the world. Obviously the actual answer would be that it's about the principle and ethics and morality and that the only option is for a very poor country to pay Billions in penalties to a small group of Investors who signed an extortion contract with a corrupt Government ...
Yes, mixing different regulation zones seems like a surefire way to create loopholes and bad interplay. What if the Australian implant has a biofilm coating that supports the healing process but is attacked by the israeli medicine which with other implants has the best effects? Who is at fault that the outcome is bad? Everyone was abiding to their respective regulatory environment.
@wookie8975 Yeah, the guest is a snake oil salesman selling his version of the monorail. The 'pick your own regulatory environment' schtick is pure nonsense. It works in regions where the Government is corrupt and you get a 'wink wink' and a 'nudge nudge' from the authoritarians in charge that you'll get your way. In all fairness what I think he's actually saying without being clear is: "Oh, we're not saying this global pick'n'mix system will work or that you'll be heard in court or that the contract will be valid or anything like that whatsoever! We're just saying that in our Libertarian Hellscape that we wouldn't stop anyone from trying to create these Frankenstein Contracts in order to get what they want or get to do what they want regardless of whether any of it will count in any court or tribunal! We're just here to let the free market play out and not interfere."
He posits that regulations reduce safety because they act as a safe harbor from liabilities for companies that operate within the law. But if companies all operate under certain safety guidelines for it's workers then there will inherently be less hurt workers, right? I feel like his portrayal of "safety regulations = bad" is a pretty convoluted take.
It has to be convoluted, because any data and research will tell you that safety regulations lead to reduced workplace injury and death. You literally must create a convoluted argument that doesn't rely on data or truth. I wish these bad faith actors would simply say "I don't care if more people die at their job, it would lower labor cost". Just own your stupid position.
if the regulation is written badily then yes it will but the bird flu safety measures for chicken and cattle seem good and i would say 99% of the others are just as good.
Not at all convoluted, there is the well known "safety paradox" in regulatory affairs. If you regulate too little, you get safety hazards - sure. If you regulate too much, you make innovation more costly, including safety innovation, i.e. you get less safety. A perfect example for this is medications for pregnant women. It's so overregulated and risky to innovate there (imagine the backlash), that there are currently only off-label drugs with little efficacy data available. So the question is how do you get the balance just right? That is IMO the solution the Prospera regulatory flexibility model provides. Insurers effectively become regulators, i.e. they don't want to underregulate you (otherwise they pay), but they don't want to overregulate you either (high compliance costs).
I think he was just exploring how it was handled rather than being reactionary-immediately oppositional to something he doesn't know how it works-which is why he was asking.
I didn’t think the harder questions were gonna get asked to be honest. Kinda ended up going over most of what I wanted to know. But i really would have like about one more layer of push back. Theres going to be some wild shit going on in these factories.
This is Bridges. Push back is intentionally minimal it's more of a space to talk about ideas not to criticize them. Obviously this is insane and these guys are criminals.
@@EscapeVelocity25k yeah all of these Billionaires trying to start their own societies and break up nation states into smaller decentralized creating modern day serfs backed by crypto. I would say to anyone that cares about human advancement and the well being of average citizens this would be insane and criminal.
"Próspera Demands Honduras Pay $11 Billion for Outlawing Privately Run City" "Próspera was launched in 2013 with the backing of Porfirio Lobo, the president of Honduras. Lobo took over the reins after the previous left wing government of Manuel Zelaya was ousted in a 2009 military coup. During his four year tenure, a special law was passed that allowed Próspera to create its own laws and tax system on a 23 hectare plot on the Caribbean island. (Although the law was initially ruled unconstitutional by the Honduran Supreme Court in 2012, it was allowed to move forward after the constitution was changed and the new president appointed several new judges to the Supreme Court.)"
It is understandable in some part his defensiveness given (1) this is a foreign direct investment seeking entity and (2) their backs are against the wall legally, but this really fell apart (credit to the hosts for asking harder questions in the second half) into a pretty typical, silly Libertarianism argument. Kind of funny, kind of just sad. I think the hosts should be even harsher and more skeptical. Make this a podcast you go on not just to explain your ideas, but to rigorously defend them. Yes, it will mean some people will never come on, but it will make the content more interesting and make it stand out compared to many of the other mind-numbing "intellectual" style podcasts a la Diary of a CEO. In this episode, again, they did a better job in the second half, but there is a lot to improve. There is no way that you can ask someone to steelman to opposition and they say it is just political revenge. Like, clearly a program set up by a well-known corrupt government that takes power away from typical public control deserves at least some scrutiny. And saying the best comparison is to another corrupt authoritarian government is... questionable. I think you owe it to your audience, especially when talking to guys like this who can be pretty slimy. I also think that some of this is doing more research prior. The female host clearly has done more research than the male host, but doesn't seem as comfortable/knowledgeable debating the issues. So the female host knows there are complaints around this ZEDE system, but doesn't want to push too hard, and the guy doesn't know much at all about the ZEDE system, but can pick up as the conversation goes on potential concerns/issues. Both of these styles are okay... but a better approach would be to have both hosts come in with significant knowledge so the conversation doesn't rely on on-the-fly thinking. The best interviews don't come in blind. They come in having done a lot of research. Maybe the hosts should hire someone to do significant background research, or the male host should make time to have the female host debrief him on background.
Think gated community with sovereign immunity and it's own government, cops, army and whatever's that a privet island would have. He also said something about people working in there but don't live there because they are not part of the ownership class? Oh, he also said he learned all of this in Arizona. Really? Where in Arizona? "The slippery slope of regulation" LOL. Take away all regulations and you can get back to a $4000.00 Chevy. Maybe, but they will come with a waiver before you can own one and you will never be able to insure it unless you do away with insurance Reg's to. "It's not imposed, it's voluntary" This guy is about to hustle billions for 150 million dollar swindle and that sounds like a huge, vulture capitalist imposition to me. Okay I'll stop commenting, but if Trump hears about this, it will be a prairie fire in the US with a giant Trump statue at the guard shack to the entrance of every Trump-town...but I'm sure the great unwashed will not live in the town's just get bussed in to work.
Isnt the entirety of this argument about regulatory bodies and safety what the US was like in the 19th century? (e.g. the direct sale of snake oil to the populace, company towns, bank runs, etc.?) Have we not seen that for-profit companies do not have the consumers' best interests at heart - ever? The consumer cannot be expected to know everything about any product or service and honestly determine whats best/safest/efficacious, etc. The lack of historical perspective here is staggering.
Not to mention in the case where the harm comes way down the line. This private regulatory bodies that are intertwined with the corporations operating at warp speed will have very little incentive at safe guarding against these. We'd still have leaded gasoline if it's all privately regulated.
Actually giga based guest, I wish them luck in their mediation with the world bank and the Honduras government. P.S. If destiny was right about more regulation = more innovation every startup would be in Germany. Who could’ve thought that needing a scrivener to read out every contract out loud for 10 hours with all stakeholders present before signing doesn’t facilitate innovation???
I don't think the argument is that more reg. = innovation. It's more so that regulation exists to protect consumers from the potential cut corners made in the efforts for innovation. When the guest referenced the industrial revolution as a time of great prosperity with little regulation he forgets, conveniently, to note that the quality of life for the average American in the face of urbanization and the industrial boom wasn't the greatest, be it at the factory or in their dwellings, until gov. Regulation kicked in. While listening to this it sounded to me that these economic zones are great for entrepreneurs because they're made to operate without the burden of generating welfare for a population of broad socioeconomic standings. I'd wager to say that the majority of people living in the zone are entrepreneurs and their relatives, as were a majority of workers, as the guest suggested at one point, live outside the zone and commute to work. This is clearly not the situation a proper nation state is responsible for governing.
Germany is a terrible example that doesn't fit well in anything. They don't have the hardest regulation but also the problem is not on regulation but on entrepreneurship and support on it. Sweden, Finland and Estonia have higher regulations than Germany in most regards but they have much higher amounts of start ups. The reason is simple, Sweden has a very beneficial and low cost scheme for start ups and entrepreneurs through taxes. Finland has an amazing infrastructure and a beneficial legal scheme with some tax benefits for start ups. Estonia has infrastructure and infrastructure regarding citizenship, easy access to European funds, infrastructure regarding internet and remote working environments which are vital for start ups. For all three cases the regulations that are targeted to start ups are what makes them favourable and easy for a start up to begin and have success. Ironically enough the problem is making a succesful start up into a growing company, in which there is no regulatory system about it nor any infrastructure, as a result most start ups end up becoming small companies with a couple of tenths of employees with the rare case of Spotify, Skype and Zoom coming into play every now and then mostly due to luck. Regulation if done properly and is not just there for people to carry papers around in a building can be much more effective than a special economic zone that is proned to be interfered with by bigger investors and governments.
Not every startup in Germany mainly because Germany has corporate taxes, strong workers protection, and cost of living is higher than average. Techbro startups prefer paying less taxes and abuse their workers, that's how they get margins.
Buy Bitcoins with US dollars and then pay taxes with Bitcoin. Buy hardware and electricity with US dollars to mine Bitcoins and then pay with Bitcoins.
It is super funny how terminally white this comment section is The Zete operate paying a land tax to constrict the physical space they use, and are internally self sufficient. This is the fundamental precept of georgism and it exists to remedy the fact that private property existing makes people own physical space on the earth that then loses its capacity to be used by others, but that is true everywhere. The difference is they are voluntarily participating in the remediation. Im Puerto Rican and the problem that happens there is people literally dont want to work anywhere other than the private companies because it substantially raises the quality of life of its employees because it pays ridiculously more than average for the same position. And when steven asks about the roads and bridges and who provided them, and hears "No we built them, we are internally self sufficient" you can watch him struggling to accept it. The problem in reality is that these people live really hard lives, and the response of "Why doesnt the government just give it to them" doesnt work in a country where everyone is poor. The government is then also, piss poor. What you need is the capacity to build infrastructure FIRST and these companies arrive and literally do the job the government is already failing to do for the people living there, because they come with the anticipation and capacity to provide it.
You are leaving out that the governemnt then has created a seperate state within their state i can see why many dont like this especiaully with laws not being allowed to be inforced inside and a private police force responsible for enforcing certain laws
What does the comment section being "white" have to do about anything you said afterwards😂. I agree with everything else you said. The free market can move mountains compared to government, especially poor governments. Georgism is the most efficient form of goverment and a good stepping stone too, when people have enough standing from oppressive governance to start their own self governing areas.
@@Grassroots_Hegemon something’s in a sovereign state should not be allowed to be paid for. Which seems to be what the new government was voted into power as a reaction to saying corporate police forced is good
It's like talking to the average 16-18 year old in the 2000s who recently kicked off their Ayn Rand phase ... The free market will always naturally hold itself AND its competitors accountable to a better and higher standard than any bureaucratic Government has or will ever because of 'competition'. Checkmate skeptics! How can you argue against this perfect logic?! - The average Libertarian or in this case Libertarian adjacent.
It is definitely said by dumb 16-18 year olds who know nothing. But we don't get to ever really see it in action, and we don't have evidence that this type of safety regulation in its full form doesn't work, we can just speculate and see what should be pit falls of this type of liablity/free market regulatory system. But! Now we can actually start seeing if our speculation is right. It could be that the free market regulatory frame work he discusses works near to as good as he says. We don't have a real world example of people trying this with genuine effort for an extended period of time.
The free market is like a balance that has to be maintained between all the people participating in it. So no one person or group has the most influence in the market.
That Prospera is entitled not only to its current book value *but also all lost profits over the remainder of the ZEDE's 50-year agreement* if they are expelled is mind-boggling. It implies that building a ZEDE that is unfair to the Hondurans and the Honduras state, such that it prompts expulsion, is a faster, less risky business model than actually building anything of worth in Honduras. No wonders the system has been deemed unconstitutional -- it is a theft of Hondura's future. It reminds me of how France shafted Haiti over lost revenues from ending slavery there. It still has dramatic consequences today. The lack of financial education but also the spinelessness of the questions asked to Brimen really lowers my esteem of both podcast hosts.
you saying that makes me wounder if and two what level of curroption was involved betweent the last adminstraction and this company that some how was the first and only major company to get an agreement done so quickly
This is the type of executives that used to tell people smoking cigarettes were good for you. I'm all for economic prosperity but this shit does not pass the smell test.
What the hell are they talking about. Some weird cult settlement that no one has ever heard of, that has failed and is in the process of being sued and that absolutely no one cares about. And what is wrong with that girl who is trying so hard to sound intellectual but obviously hasn't got a clue what she is talking about. Destiny looks like he knows this is crap but he's desperate. his career seems like it is pretty well over.
As a Honduran, I can say you are wrong. 1. ZEDEs are one of the best policies created by the Honduran State in the last couple of decades. 2. The Honduran Government would (as it has done it in other cases) just use the money to hire more political allies, let the project die, and/or use the facilities as a freak show.
I am open to being wrong. 1. Best for who? 2. How is a privatized system of courts, police, and taxation system where prospera can LITERALLY explicitly use extorted money to hire more allies not so much worse?
Sounds almost like an ancap society, im surprised destiny is acting like he has never heard of this before and takes it seriously and a decent idea. Its almost like he doesnt understand libertarians and just likes to follow his pressupositions...
Doing a coup of the land is bad due to treaties of the agreement and not the countries laws. Yeah i can see why people have a problem with this system. I would want you in a jail for life in my country for bracking our laws on our land not some bs agrement
why not? before Chavez version of socialism and the late 80s economic crisis (that was the enabling factor for Chavism to rise in the first place) Venezuela was already one the richest and most prosperous countries in Latin America and it was like that for the most part of the twentieth century (it had lapses of political instability but never economic instability until the time of Chavez), this guy was born on Venezuela apparently raised in those times, is no brainer he has the notion of Venezuela *potentially* being an ecomically prosperous country. obviously i would like to think he's aware of the current political state of the country, because if that's not the case then he's crazy lol.
@@ricardocampos6675 Venezuela was NEVER rich that is a myth. it was rich the same way Guyana is rich now, it is isn't. having lot's of oil doesn't make you rich, any more than having lots of Gold, like Peru does and no one wants to live there. he says that because he know that dumb americans will buy anything when you mention socialism.
This Canadian woman provided nothing of substance to this conversation. I’m sure she’s important for the podcast as a whole, but she doesn’t really have the qualities to be a podcast host, and she performed especially poorly in this podcast. I feel as if she perfectly embodies the DEI label, at least for the role of a host.
Economies are inherently complex systems and as with any complex system it will invariably fall into disarray. Anyone who argues for uncontrolled economies is literally brain dead. A just and fair economy that works for everyone doesn’t just happen at a thin air. It’s not a underlying force of the universe. It’s a choice that we put in a practice through policies and regulation.
Prosperity clearly does not emerge out of “low taxes”, it emerges out of a combination of economic freedom and rule of [good] law. These are the conditions fundamentally that Prospera delivers in partnership with host nations. …and most locals love it! For once they are able to aspire and attain self realization without corruption, favoritism, cronyism, and with reliable rights and access to justice.
Locals actually seem to like it based on polling data that's available. But since it's all voluntary and doesn't cost Hondurans anything, it shouldn't be an issue for those who don't like it
Eric "Brimen". I wonder why hes building a Hyper-Capitalist exclusionary zone that banks and financial institutions dominate ? Just asking questions as a Latin American
There should be endless suspicion on any project like this. It's fascinating how his firm made a deal with a country that had an incredibly high corruption index score where their investment of ~140mil could be calculated out 50 years with an assumed ROI that their project will create Wakanda.... Therefore this poor nation should be on the hook. I'm not interested enough to dive very deep but from some quick Google-FU, it looks like they're claiming due to the delay, they've suffered 10.7 Billion dollars in damages. So a 7500% ROI or an annualized ROI of 36%... In just 14 years, again this is surface only but that's not even the amount for the 50 year cancellation penalty. I'd have so much more respect for this guy and his idea if he were blatantly honest. "Hey, we try and setup lucrative 'Shell States' that financially benefit us and our clients enormously by allowing them to skirt numerous laws/regulations and tax burdens by partnering with corrupt Governments in poor countries to let us setup shop in some remote area. We give them a cut and they leave us alone and most of us and our clients are well insulated from the hellhole country we've suckered into a partnership with! It's a win win! Why do you think we chose a small city on an island off the coast of the Country I am trying to convince you and your audience I give a F about."
would love a follow up with a Prospera worker, Tons of Allegations of abuse among the Honduran Natives go unquestioned in this video with Erudite staring at Brimen like a wide eyed Puppy. Paints a bad picture of bridges, No different than Lex Friedman
@@Squibtorious no, as far as i know they’re not true. reciprocity and mutual consent are core values at próspera, and everyone here is kind, hardworking, respectful and driven. it’s actually exciting to be part of a community where we all know we’re building something bigger than ourselves. what specific allegations are you referring to?
piavpn.com/BridgesPodcast, for a special discount-83% off
I have a VPN. For a good reason.
Jared from subway really has turned his life around
Do some research into the world record podcast
Lol I had the same thought when I saw the thumbnail
Nice that you got Senator Armstrong on the pod
So many episodes I wait to watch thinking "eh, sounds kinda dry, not my thing" and the discussions always end up being SO interesting! Fucking love this podcast!
5:41 Good governance 1) protects private property and individual liberties 2) provides [a system of] justice 3) provides security, and that's it. In my European mindset, consumer and employee protection and safety is a big role of governance which is missing here. Consumer protection accounts for the inevitable imbalance in information and power between producers and consumers, an imbalance which inevitably ruins some of the free market mechanisms.
There are no solutions - only compromises. In exchange for consumer protection you can receive experimental medical treatments that are decades ahead EU. Stem cell treatments, gene therapies and bio-printing are just a few examples that for us Europeans is science fiction.
Erudite is back YIPEEEEE (I like Steven too
fr these are only good when I can look at Kyla
A big strength and weakness of Singapore is its size. It's a very small island, and this makes managing internal security and implementing consistent infrastructure maintenance a lot more manageable. If you commit a crime, with how small the island is, there's really nowhere for you to hide. This contributed in large part to one of the huge draws of Singapore- stability. At the same time though this also leads into one of the key issues Singapore is facing right now- overcrowding. There's only so much land area they have and only so much land they can reclaim, and right now with 6 million people the populace is feeling that squeeze. The challenge now (among many others of course) for Singapore is how to continue growing its population while working around these physical constraints because realistically speaking, they ain't getting any more territory from its neighbours.
Welcome back Kyla! Just tuned in, expect another fascinating poddy
Finally a Bridges video that is available during the work day!
This episode felt weird to me tbh. Other episodes had a great back and forth, but this episode felt like a two hour interrogation where Erudite and Destiny quizzed him, he provided fairly vague answers, and then they moved on to another topic.
Yeah guy sounds like a con artist to me
1:10:11 the thing to be brought up here is regulations are often written in blood. More often than not when there is a regulation it is because more than one person was harmed or died
1:21:26 ok Triangle Shirt Factory fire would be the one to bring up here, fire regulations to protect workers things like OSHA. I get this guy is very libertarian and I sympathize to a degree (especially when dealing with burgeoning economies) but he is undermining my faith in this projects goals
1:40:48 ok now I’m getting company town vibes
If regulation makes it so you cannot sue, because the provider was "compliant with the regulations", then picking and choosing regulations makes it EVEN HARDER to sue, because the provider can pick the regulatory system that is cheapest for them, rather than safest for the consumer, but the consumer was "aware of the risks" when they used the functionally unregulated product or service.
You are right, but you left out why would consumer take such risk. The benefit is that you can get medical services that are decades ahead of any other place on earth.
@@3rdHalf1 Barely regulated does not equal advanced. Buying medical equipment from Liberia just because there are few restrictions on what you build and sell does not make Liberia's medical industry super advanced, just super risky
Great discussion!
Some things not mentioned:
1) Propspera has and will continue to have veto power in ZEDE as long as it exists, even if the council votes otherwise
2) Unlike anywhere else in Honduras, Prospera doesn't need to be public with how it handles labor disputes
3) It has 120 million in investments, primarily by Peter Thiel, Sam Altman and Marc Andreessen. This is no ESG investment.
4) While yes, half of the employees are Honduran, they have only 58 employees. I can't find anything on the population of the ZEDE, but I can't imagine it is over 100, and I'm not sure that Hondurans are even a majority there.
I wish you asked about any of this. Yes, I don't expect a grilling on this show, but at least do some basic research beforehand and ask in a polite way about it.
1) A short look-up of this also shows that above the council (5 elected, 4 appointed by Prospera) is a Committee of Best Practices who are appointed by the Honduras government and have the power to approve internal regulations and provide policy guidance.
2) idk, could be bad.
3) Just because they're not ESG investments doesn't mean they're not beneficial to a country that wouldn't otherwise recieve those investments, or the Honduran people who might benefit from them.
4) Pretty sure that'll grow as the city grows and more investment comes, but in the current situation, not much more is going in due to the uncertainty.
I'm not saying this system is perfect but there are very expectable answers and they're not new ideas, there have been very very successful and strong examples of these types of economic zones, like the ones in Dubai, like the one in South Korea, like the ones in China, (Hong Kong, Shanghai and Macau notably) though those have gone backwards somewhat since China has taken more control.
1) misleading. That quasi-veto (it’s not a legal veto pero se, and only holds if all members of the council nominated by Prospera vote in block against some new action or rule) only holds true for a period of time while population builds up. Then, residents can do a referendum and change the charter. Moreover, at any point in time residents have a referendum power that can veto any action by the council (in this case, the veto is indeed enshrined in the Charter).
2) also not true. Labor disputes are in first instance handled by the labor tribunal of the PAC and the proceedings are public, unless both parties agree otherwise (sometimes much preferred by employees who are bringing forth issues they would rather keep private without losing their ability to bring employers to justice).
3) “ESG investing” has been a failure generally IMO, but in any case, Prospera is the epitome of an investment that drives good governance and lifts people up. It is fundamentally about creating the foundations necessary to catalyze prosperity. And it has been working.
4) The people who live inside are indeed less than 500, but that is bc residences are less built than employment opportunities. Thousands of people have jobs thanks to Prospera - even if they live outside for the time being - with minimum wages higher than required outside, and salaries much higher than the national average.
More FAQs: www.prospera.co/news/prospera-faqs
All those sound okay.
I mean based on the responses you can see that the subject is not a very simple one. Even the core that they covered is not sufficient for me an outsider to fully understand how the place operates and what are the nuances of the collaboration between the semi autonomous area and the country.
Those questions even though important are digging deeper than the surface and I wouldn't consider them part of "a basic research". If anything I'd say that these few questions would probably make about an hour of a podcast in itself going back and forth.
Plus the charter is subject to total revision by referendum after the first 35 years.
I don't mind voluntary system. But anyone not paying for those services, should not get benefits from it. For example, educated populus. Company or individual should pay premium for doing anything that involves educated people, if they won't pay taxes that contribite to education. Same is for infrastructure, they should pay individually for every road they use, and ofc, it should be on them to also bear the cost of having systems to charge them for it.
Overall, any government service they benefit from, directly on indirectly existing in the country, they have to pay for. I'm not going to call it taxes for their benefit, but lets call payment for government services.
I think this is fair deal, as long as company does not interact with the country, they don't have to pay anything. Again, this is not taxes, just compensation paid to the host country for providing platform to do business in.
That sounds fair. It would also logically follow that any country that wishes to take inmigrants should pay beforehand for the education costs to the country of origin as to avoid freeriding. Of course the citizen in question would not be free to leave until the discretionary amount has been paid in full, otherwise it would be an obvious loophole, but worst case scenario you just have to build a wall.
I agree. And that is the way it should work. It’s the way Prospera seeks to operate and does to the full extend permitted legally and in practical terms.
Btw when one pays a highly skilled worker a much higher wage than a low skilled one, and 20-30% of the cost is related to payments that go to government, the dynamic you describe is already in play.
Something else to consider: if someone can’t opt out of using or receiving a service, then the case to require them to pay is no longer as clear. So I agree with you fully, to the extent that “services” are not imposed. Then it stops being a voluntary exchange. But just as I’m against coercion generally, I’m also against free ridding.
@@FiloVFX That seems like a big limitation on personal freedoms, but okay. We're kind of landlocking everyone into their country of origin by force at this point, as to prevent loopholes you'd also have to prevent tourism, business and all other forms of inter-country travel. Trade seems exploitative too, to transfer goods between countries would inevitably allow businesses and consumers to freeride off of foreign institutions.
@@anonymooseplays3905 Yes I was being sarcastic and trying to showcase the problem with OP's reasoning
@@FiloVFX I was also being sarcastic though ;D I was trying to showcase that in the end you would just end up with taxes.
This guy seems like one of those doctors that would say camels are the healthiest cigarettes on the market.
I feel like the analogy applies better to the American explaining the benefits of redistribution to a Venezuelan.
@FiloVFX thats more like an american explaining to a starving holocaust survivor the benefits of eating less and moving more.
that comment is the sort of ad hominem that evidences a lack of any legitimate points to make
@@FiloVFX amongst developed nations United States has some of the highest income inequality amongst its citizens. I think we are perfectly entitled to talk about the merits of a regulated economy.
@@chad872 Are you proving my point or are you trying to flex income inequality? A US citizen explaining the wonders of redistribution to a Venezuelan is a bit tone deaf...
Biology is time-constrained with results. The idea that you can tell something is safe with a high level of confidence in a short period of time is highly relative to the subject you're studying. A better question to pose to both these new sandboxes and old is what mechanisms they use to differentiate?
Plug and play economies sounds crazy, im in.
It sounded interesting but honestly lost the plot with the lack of centralized regulation. By the end of listening it sounds like a tax haven / unregulated labor zone for rapid corporation growth and wealth accumulation. Sounds pretty sketchy tbh but I don't know enough about the country to know if that is somehow still better than the current economic situation they have going on. I'm going to guess long term it is not a good thing, but that's just my opinion.
Sounds like a weird sex act
This shit seems like a bureaucratic and legal disaster waiting to happen. You want foreign regulations enforced and acted on in host nations? And people can just pick and choose which laws they want to follow?
What the fuck is the benefit to that insteadnof just changing the laws?
Exactly, this is such a pie in the sky Libertarian snake oil pitch.
Why would companies outside of this SEZ play along from a liability standpoint?
"I'm sorry, we're being sued by someone who bought our medical device for use in a region where we don't sell it, it was done with drugs that aren't all approved for the procedure in any of the countries where we do sell it, the Doctor who installed it has never interacted with us and therefore hasn't gone though any of our materials and education on our product and they've selected several subsections of our Liability contract from another Country? Have we shredded this letter yet or can we have it framed and hung up in our legal department?"
Or the... The backend from the insurance side in this Libertarian Hellscape. Yeah, we'll insure your new age/cutting edge medicine that was developed under an 'à la carte' of International Pharmaceutical regulations incase your cutting of red tape process disastrous. It's not like behaving like such an entity would require us to be insanely expensive from an administrative cost perspective to adequately perform due diligence OR behave like a Finance play that rubber stamps these products without actually doing any of the assumed profit driven / competence market mechanisms holding everyone accountable.
This whole thing is a bad joke. Couple that with the feigned concern over their little project being cancelled and getting paid out tens to hundreds of billions of dollars from their 50 year hyper successful forecast ROI on their 150 mil dollar investment.
I would have liked to see his response to the suggestion that they simply ask for their actual investment +20% penalty back from the Government so that they can pitch their brilliant and totally not a scam idea somewhere else in the world. Obviously the actual answer would be that it's about the principle and ethics and morality and that the only option is for a very poor country to pay Billions in penalties to a small group of Investors who signed an extortion contract with a corrupt Government ...
Yes, mixing different regulation zones seems like a surefire way to create loopholes and bad interplay. What if the Australian implant has a biofilm coating that supports the healing process but is attacked by the israeli medicine which with other implants has the best effects? Who is at fault that the outcome is bad? Everyone was abiding to their respective regulatory environment.
@wookie8975 Yeah, the guest is a snake oil salesman selling his version of the monorail. The 'pick your own regulatory environment' schtick is pure nonsense. It works in regions where the Government is corrupt and you get a 'wink wink' and a 'nudge nudge' from the authoritarians in charge that you'll get your way.
In all fairness what I think he's actually saying without being clear is:
"Oh, we're not saying this global pick'n'mix system will work or that you'll be heard in court or that the contract will be valid or anything like that whatsoever! We're just saying that in our Libertarian Hellscape that we wouldn't stop anyone from trying to create these Frankenstein Contracts in order to get what they want or get to do what they want regardless of whether any of it will count in any court or tribunal! We're just here to let the free market play out and not interfere."
The benefits are experimental medical procedures, that are decades ahead the rest of the world.
Beautiful.
Thank you Dr. Egon, very cool!
He posits that regulations reduce safety because they act as a safe harbor from liabilities for companies that operate within the law. But if companies all operate under certain safety guidelines for it's workers then there will inherently be less hurt workers, right? I feel like his portrayal of "safety regulations = bad" is a pretty convoluted take.
It has to be convoluted, because any data and research will tell you that safety regulations lead to reduced workplace injury and death. You literally must create a convoluted argument that doesn't rely on data or truth. I wish these bad faith actors would simply say "I don't care if more people die at their job, it would lower labor cost". Just own your stupid position.
if the regulation is written badily then yes it will but the bird flu safety measures for chicken and cattle seem good and i would say 99% of the others are just as good.
Not at all convoluted, there is the well known "safety paradox" in regulatory affairs.
If you regulate too little, you get safety hazards - sure.
If you regulate too much, you make innovation more costly, including safety innovation, i.e. you get less safety.
A perfect example for this is medications for pregnant women. It's so overregulated and risky to innovate there (imagine the backlash), that there are currently only off-label drugs with little efficacy data available.
So the question is how do you get the balance just right?
That is IMO the solution the Prospera regulatory flexibility model provides. Insurers effectively become regulators, i.e. they don't want to underregulate you (otherwise they pay), but they don't want to overregulate you either (high compliance costs).
Would be great if the guest pushed a little to answer the original question.
Was Rapture already copyrighted?
When I saw this thumbnail I thought you were interviewing Jared from Subway
Erudite is back! Yay
That makes one of us
I feel like destiny gave very light push back and he immediately pivots to talking about regulation bad
I think he was just exploring how it was handled rather than being reactionary-immediately oppositional to something he doesn't know how it works-which is why he was asking.
1:26:25 OK, he thinks providing public education or health care is coercion and comparable to slavery, nothing more to be said.
I’d like to see a discussion between this guy and Robert Kuttner
Strange thumbnail, as privatization doesn't prevent corruption, it just gives corruption the innocent name of lobbyism.
11:19 ok not loving this bit. The term reciprocity being used to hand wave alot potential harm
Great episode showcasing innovation in governance and new ways of creating economic development in Latin America.
OK bot bro
tax havens don't benefit anyone, look at Panama,
@@jamesmitch9792 it is a tax haven focused on innovation to make its money.
@@0113Naruto innovating, this is a third world country, that is not what they do best. that sounds like a lot of nonsense.
@@jamesmitch9792 the companies going there and the people working at those companies are from the first world.
I didn’t think the harder questions were gonna get asked to be honest. Kinda ended up going over most of what I wanted to know. But i really would have like about one more layer of push back. Theres going to be some wild shit going on in these factories.
This is Bridges. Push back is intentionally minimal it's more of a space to talk about ideas not to criticize them. Obviously this is insane and these guys are criminals.
@@EscapeVelocity25k yeah all of these Billionaires trying to start their own societies and break up nation states into smaller decentralized creating modern day serfs backed by crypto. I would say to anyone that cares about human advancement and the well being of average citizens this would be insane and criminal.
@@EscapeVelocity25k Tax haven, but lick those boots you'll be rich someday
1:45:25 "Seeked" 🗣
and he said it in such an emphasized way too 😅
"Próspera Demands Honduras Pay $11 Billion for Outlawing Privately Run City"
"Próspera was launched in 2013 with the backing of Porfirio Lobo, the president of Honduras. Lobo took over the reins after the previous left wing government of Manuel Zelaya was ousted in a 2009 military coup. During his four year tenure, a special law was passed that allowed Próspera to create its own laws and tax system on a 23 hectare plot on the Caribbean island. (Although the law was initially ruled unconstitutional by the Honduran Supreme Court in 2012, it was allowed to move forward after the constitution was changed and the new president appointed several new judges to the Supreme Court.)"
Bring on Ray Delahanty, Tim Miller, and Hemant Mehta
It is understandable in some part his defensiveness given (1) this is a foreign direct investment seeking entity and (2) their backs are against the wall legally, but this really fell apart (credit to the hosts for asking harder questions in the second half) into a pretty typical, silly Libertarianism argument. Kind of funny, kind of just sad.
I think the hosts should be even harsher and more skeptical. Make this a podcast you go on not just to explain your ideas, but to rigorously defend them. Yes, it will mean some people will never come on, but it will make the content more interesting and make it stand out compared to many of the other mind-numbing "intellectual" style podcasts a la Diary of a CEO. In this episode, again, they did a better job in the second half, but there is a lot to improve. There is no way that you can ask someone to steelman to opposition and they say it is just political revenge. Like, clearly a program set up by a well-known corrupt government that takes power away from typical public control deserves at least some scrutiny. And saying the best comparison is to another corrupt authoritarian government is... questionable. I think you owe it to your audience, especially when talking to guys like this who can be pretty slimy.
I also think that some of this is doing more research prior. The female host clearly has done more research than the male host, but doesn't seem as comfortable/knowledgeable debating the issues. So the female host knows there are complaints around this ZEDE system, but doesn't want to push too hard, and the guy doesn't know much at all about the ZEDE system, but can pick up as the conversation goes on potential concerns/issues. Both of these styles are okay... but a better approach would be to have both hosts come in with significant knowledge so the conversation doesn't rely on on-the-fly thinking. The best interviews don't come in blind. They come in having done a lot of research. Maybe the hosts should hire someone to do significant background research, or the male host should make time to have the female host debrief him on background.
Think gated community with sovereign immunity and it's own government, cops, army and whatever's that a privet island would have. He also said something about people working in there but don't live there because they are not part of the ownership class? Oh, he also said he learned all of this in Arizona. Really? Where in Arizona? "The slippery slope of regulation" LOL. Take away all regulations and you can get back to a $4000.00 Chevy. Maybe, but they will come with a waiver before you can own one and you will never be able to insure it unless you do away with insurance Reg's to. "It's not imposed, it's voluntary" This guy is about to hustle billions for 150 million dollar swindle and that sounds like a huge, vulture capitalist imposition to me. Okay I'll stop commenting, but if Trump hears about this, it will be a prairie fire in the US with a giant Trump statue at the guard shack to the entrance of every Trump-town...but I'm sure the great unwashed will not live in the town's just get bussed in to work.
Excellent interview-Erick is a visionary and Prospera is going to improve the lives of millions one day
Lol ok bot bro
no it won't, it is just a tax haven.
even the locals hate it.
This is really fascinating! Good luck to Prospera!
So good to see Kyla back!
Isnt the entirety of this argument about regulatory bodies and safety what the US was like in the 19th century? (e.g. the direct sale of snake oil to the populace, company towns, bank runs, etc.?) Have we not seen that for-profit companies do not have the consumers' best interests at heart - ever? The consumer cannot be expected to know everything about any product or service and honestly determine whats best/safest/efficacious, etc. The lack of historical perspective here is staggering.
exactly
Not to mention in the case where the harm comes way down the line. This private regulatory bodies that are intertwined with the corporations operating at warp speed will have very little incentive at safe guarding against these. We'd still have leaded gasoline if it's all privately regulated.
Company towns being bad is a progressive myth
@falkram10 that is why you have civil court for, the lack of economical and civil understanding is staggering
right.. Like forced arbitration...super focused on shared value and outcomes
Actually giga based guest, I wish them luck in their mediation with the world bank and the Honduras government.
P.S. If destiny was right about more regulation = more innovation every startup would be in Germany. Who could’ve thought that needing a scrivener to read out every contract out loud for 10 hours with all stakeholders present before signing doesn’t facilitate innovation???
Did he say that? I don't recall he did.
I don't think the argument is that more reg. = innovation. It's more so that regulation exists to protect consumers from the potential cut corners made in the efforts for innovation. When the guest referenced the industrial revolution as a time of great prosperity with little regulation he forgets, conveniently, to note that the quality of life for the average American in the face of urbanization and the industrial boom wasn't the greatest, be it at the factory or in their dwellings, until gov. Regulation kicked in. While listening to this it sounded to me that these economic zones are great for entrepreneurs because they're made to operate without the burden of generating welfare for a population of broad socioeconomic standings. I'd wager to say that the majority of people living in the zone are entrepreneurs and their relatives, as were a majority of workers, as the guest suggested at one point, live outside the zone and commute to work. This is clearly not the situation a proper nation state is responsible for governing.
Germany is a terrible example that doesn't fit well in anything. They don't have the hardest regulation but also the problem is not on regulation but on entrepreneurship and support on it.
Sweden, Finland and Estonia have higher regulations than Germany in most regards but they have much higher amounts of start ups. The reason is simple, Sweden has a very beneficial and low cost scheme for start ups and entrepreneurs through taxes. Finland has an amazing infrastructure and a beneficial legal scheme with some tax benefits for start ups. Estonia has infrastructure and infrastructure regarding citizenship, easy access to European funds, infrastructure regarding internet and remote working environments which are vital for start ups.
For all three cases the regulations that are targeted to start ups are what makes them favourable and easy for a start up to begin and have success. Ironically enough the problem is making a succesful start up into a growing company, in which there is no regulatory system about it nor any infrastructure, as a result most start ups end up becoming small companies with a couple of tenths of employees with the rare case of Spotify, Skype and Zoom coming into play every now and then mostly due to luck.
Regulation if done properly and is not just there for people to carry papers around in a building can be much more effective than a special economic zone that is proned to be interfered with by bigger investors and governments.
Good in general is not the same as good for startups
Not every startup in Germany mainly because Germany has corporate taxes, strong workers protection, and cost of living is higher than average. Techbro startups prefer paying less taxes and abuse their workers, that's how they get margins.
My dude is making hive cities
Basically it's mostly libertarian utopian vision, aka, "herp derp the industry can regulate itself" and "the consumer will always have choices".
Yeah, I'm just waiting for some manufacturing firm in these zones to cut corners and cause a crisis in another country
can you guys yell at eachother or crack a joke or something I'm falling asleep over here
Show might not be for you bud. Jk, this dude was light on the charisma fs.
Buy Bitcoins with US dollars and then pay taxes with Bitcoin.
Buy hardware and electricity with US dollars to mine Bitcoins and then pay with Bitcoins.
It is super funny how terminally white this comment section is
The Zete operate paying a land tax to constrict the physical space they use, and are internally self sufficient. This is the fundamental precept of georgism and it exists to remedy the fact that private property existing makes people own physical space on the earth that then loses its capacity to be used by others, but that is true everywhere. The difference is they are voluntarily participating in the remediation.
Im Puerto Rican and the problem that happens there is people literally dont want to work anywhere other than the private companies because it substantially raises the quality of life of its employees because it pays ridiculously more than average for the same position.
And when steven asks about the roads and bridges and who provided them, and hears "No we built them, we are internally self sufficient" you can watch him struggling to accept it.
The problem in reality is that these people live really hard lives, and the response of "Why doesnt the government just give it to them" doesnt work in a country where everyone is poor. The government is then also, piss poor.
What you need is the capacity to build infrastructure FIRST and these companies arrive and literally do the job the government is already failing to do for the people living there, because they come with the anticipation and capacity to provide it.
You are leaving out that the governemnt then has created a seperate state within their state i can see why many dont like this especiaully with laws not being allowed to be inforced inside and a private police force responsible for enforcing certain laws
@Johnjackjack Sorry who pays for that part again?
What does the comment section being "white" have to do about anything you said afterwards😂. I agree with everything else you said. The free market can move mountains compared to government, especially poor governments. Georgism is the most efficient form of goverment and a good stepping stone too, when people have enough standing from oppressive governance to start their own self governing areas.
@@Grassroots_Hegemon something’s in a sovereign state should not be allowed to be paid for.
Which seems to be what the new government was voted into power as a reaction to saying corporate police forced is good
You're racist but libertarian? Interesting combo
It's like talking to the average 16-18 year old in the 2000s who recently kicked off their Ayn Rand phase ...
The free market will always naturally hold itself AND its competitors accountable to a better and higher standard than any bureaucratic Government has or will ever because of 'competition'. Checkmate skeptics! How can you argue against this perfect logic?!
- The average Libertarian or in this case Libertarian adjacent.
It is definitely said by dumb 16-18 year olds who know nothing. But we don't get to ever really see it in action, and we don't have evidence that this type of safety regulation in its full form doesn't work, we can just speculate and see what should be pit falls of this type of liablity/free market regulatory system. But! Now we can actually start seeing if our speculation is right. It could be that the free market regulatory frame work he discusses works near to as good as he says. We don't have a real world example of people trying this with genuine effort for an extended period of time.
Yay! Kyla’s back
Elysium is likely inevitable. Make sure to end up on the right side of war robots
2:09:46 The fade to black while NSE is still talking is so disrespectful lmao
The free market is like a balance that has to be maintained between all the people participating in it. So no one person or group has the most influence in the market.
??? The people with capital has the most influence, and is concentrated in 10% of the population
Nope
at first glance i thought you had jared fogle on the podcast
holy a 1v1 convo would be much better
Nah they ran out of questions toward the end
@@dranelemakol there was a lot NSE questions that did not make sense
@@cityofquartz1465 what's NSE
That Prospera is entitled not only to its current book value *but also all lost profits over the remainder of the ZEDE's 50-year agreement* if they are expelled is mind-boggling. It implies that building a ZEDE that is unfair to the Hondurans and the Honduras state, such that it prompts expulsion, is a faster, less risky business model than actually building anything of worth in Honduras. No wonders the system has been deemed unconstitutional -- it is a theft of Hondura's future.
It reminds me of how France shafted Haiti over lost revenues from ending slavery there. It still has dramatic consequences today.
The lack of financial education but also the spinelessness of the questions asked to Brimen really lowers my esteem of both podcast hosts.
you saying that makes me wounder if and two what level of curroption was involved betweent the last adminstraction and this company that some how was the first and only major company to get an agreement done so quickly
This new color grade is depressing
how many times does he have to repeat h is answers lmao. wake up guys
Preferred how the conversations flowed with a single host
This is the type of executives that used to tell people smoking cigarettes were good for you. I'm all for economic prosperity but this shit does not pass the smell test.
Because he's Latino-looking? Lol
I thought this was Jared fogle smh
What the hell are they talking about. Some weird cult settlement that no one has ever heard of, that has failed and is in the process of being sued and that absolutely no one cares about. And what is wrong with that girl who is trying so hard to sound intellectual but obviously hasn't got a clue what she is talking about. Destiny looks like he knows this is crap but he's desperate. his career seems like it is pretty well over.
What a snake. I hope the Honduran government expropriates every cent he has and uses it to actually fund things that would make Honduras better.
Sure, like all the great things the Honduran government has done in the past to make Honduras better.
As a Honduran, I can say you are wrong.
1. ZEDEs are one of the best policies created by the Honduran State in the last couple of decades.
2. The Honduran Government would (as it has done it in other cases) just use the money to hire more political allies, let the project die, and/or use the facilities as a freak show.
@@JavierD.Briceño bot spotted
I am open to being wrong.
1. Best for who?
2. How is a privatized system of courts, police, and taxation system where prospera can LITERALLY explicitly use extorted money to hire more allies not so much worse?
@@jaidengill5588 user = agree?human:bot;
Sounds almost like an ancap society, im surprised destiny is acting like he has never heard of this before and takes it seriously and a decent idea. Its almost like he doesnt understand libertarians and just likes to follow his pressupositions...
Doing a coup of the land is bad due to treaties of the agreement and not the countries laws. Yeah i can see why people have a problem with this system. I would want you in a jail for life in my country for bracking our laws on our land not some bs agrement
Prospera has not broken any laws. All land has been voluntarily purchased.
@ you can also bite away democracy doesn’t mean it’s right or good
I’m going to start a business in prospera
I also love snake oil.
It's time to stop this failure of a podcast
Speaking truth to power
anyone who opens with "Venezuela should be the richest country"
is clearly trying to sell you something.
why not? before Chavez version of socialism and the late 80s economic crisis (that was the enabling factor for Chavism to rise in the first place) Venezuela was already one the richest and most prosperous countries in Latin America and it was like that for the most part of the twentieth century (it had lapses of political instability but never economic instability until the time of Chavez), this guy was born on Venezuela apparently raised in those times, is no brainer he has the notion of Venezuela *potentially* being an ecomically prosperous country. obviously i would like to think he's aware of the current political state of the country, because if that's not the case then he's crazy lol.
@@ricardocampos6675 Venezuela was NEVER rich that is a myth. it was rich the same way Guyana is rich now, it is isn't.
having lot's of oil doesn't make you rich, any more than having lots of Gold, like Peru does and no one wants to live there.
he says that because he know that dumb americans will buy anything when you mention socialism.
This Canadian woman provided nothing of substance to this conversation. I’m sure she’s important for the podcast as a whole, but she doesn’t really have the qualities to be a podcast host, and she performed especially poorly in this podcast. I feel as if she perfectly embodies the DEI label, at least for the role of a host.
Was this a bot? You just said "this Canadian woman" like it was a script.
Economies are inherently complex systems and as with any complex system it will invariably fall into disarray. Anyone who argues for uncontrolled economies is literally brain dead. A just and fair economy that works for everyone doesn’t just happen at a thin air. It’s not a underlying force of the universe. It’s a choice that we put in a practice through policies and regulation.
this is just another Panama-like tax haven, it is still poor and no one wants to live there.
the locals hate this project too.
Prosperity clearly does not emerge out of “low taxes”, it emerges out of a combination of economic freedom and rule of [good] law.
These are the conditions fundamentally that Prospera delivers in partnership with host nations.
…and most locals love it! For once they are able to aspire and attain self realization without corruption, favoritism, cronyism, and with reliable rights and access to justice.
Locals actually seem to like it based on polling data that's available. But since it's all voluntary and doesn't cost Hondurans anything, it shouldn't be an issue for those who don't like it
@@ErickBrimen by locals you mean rich people in Honduras? who now have a tax free zone.
@@gsockpuppet2490 it costs the missing tax money they should be collecting for schools and public infrastructure.
Thought that was Jared Fogle for a sec....
Eric "Brimen". I wonder why hes building a Hyper-Capitalist exclusionary zone that banks and financial institutions dominate ? Just asking questions as a Latin American
The LQ?
to save money and avoid taxes. this is a money laundering scheme.
Because Hondurans are literally starving and you can eat USD. More paycheck to paycheck = less starving. Plus I get a yacht.
There should be endless suspicion on any project like this. It's fascinating how his firm made a deal with a country that had an incredibly high corruption index score where their investment of ~140mil could be calculated out 50 years with an assumed ROI that their project will create Wakanda.... Therefore this poor nation should be on the hook. I'm not interested enough to dive very deep but from some quick Google-FU, it looks like they're claiming due to the delay, they've suffered 10.7 Billion dollars in damages. So a 7500% ROI or an annualized ROI of 36%... In just 14 years, again this is surface only but that's not even the amount for the 50 year cancellation penalty.
I'd have so much more respect for this guy and his idea if he were blatantly honest.
"Hey, we try and setup lucrative 'Shell States' that financially benefit us and our clients enormously by allowing them to skirt numerous laws/regulations and tax burdens by partnering with corrupt Governments in poor countries to let us setup shop in some remote area. We give them a cut and they leave us alone and most of us and our clients are well insulated from the hellhole country we've suckered into a partnership with! It's a win win! Why do you think we chose a small city on an island off the coast of the Country I am trying to convince you and your audience I give a F about."
would love a follow up with a Prospera worker, Tons of Allegations of abuse among the Honduran Natives go unquestioned in this video with Erudite staring at Brimen like a wide eyed Puppy. Paints a bad picture of bridges, No different than Lex Friedman
i’m a honduran and i live and work at Próspera! ask me anything.
What particular allegations do u have in mind
She's pushed back and asked questions far more than Lex does and I'm 10 minutes in.
@@a.ndreaszare the "tons of allegations of abuse" that OP mentioned real? As in, the abuse is real?
@@Squibtorious no, as far as i know they’re not true. reciprocity and mutual consent are core values at próspera, and everyone here is kind, hardworking, respectful and driven. it’s actually exciting to be part of a community where we all know we’re building something bigger than ourselves. what specific allegations are you referring to?
Less nerds; more Kyla.
Is that Jared from subway?
OOOO