The grid book at 6:43. I borrowed it the library, thinking how detailed can it be? I just started reading it earlier today. Holy doodle. I might have to renew to get through it. Thanks for mentioning it!
Great one. A real milnor black and white indoors and enough to say to easily fill half an hour without a empty moment. No zero bit nonsense here. Thanks
I first came across Duane Michals in the mid 1970s. I was still a teenager, had bought my first SLR and was crazy about photography. I'd already talked my parents into buying me the Time-Life Photography books, which were a fantastic subscription series of books about photography. I then came across a series of books called "Masters of Contemporary Photography", which included books on Michals, Art Kane, Bert Stern, Elliot Erwitt, Will McBride, Annie Liebovitz and Mary Ellen Mark (they had to share), and covered lots of different genres of photography. They were filled with photos and text about the work, and a section at the back showing techniques that were used such as lighting and lenses, etc. I read those books over and over, but the surrealism of Michals' work really appealed to the slightly weird teenage me. Those and the Time Life books were stashed at my mum's house when I left Australia and have long since disappeared, but I managed to find used copies of the Masters books, so they are back on my bookshelves and get regular perusals, even if they seem a little dated and the print. quality isn't great. Old books like these are fantastic for learning about photography because it wasn't all about the gear, although it does get mentioned when discussing certain techniques, it was as an addendum.
I'd say it's not only just digital cameras that revived that "mature industry", but the whole IT/hardware "revolution" of 90s, which made computing available to masses.
I enjoyed this video! It occurred to me during your video that I don’t hear much about the joy of photography these days. It’s always about following or the professionalization of it. For many like me (enthusiasts who enjoy the act of creation), I would love to hear you on the joys of photography. Cheers!
For pens, I’ve been a big fan of Tactile Turn. They’re made in the USA and come in bronze, titanium, copper, and zirconium. There’s tons of ink refills that you can use.
Personally I think part of the reason most photography is now all style and no substance is that people want to go from 0 to 100 without knowing any basics of what it is that they’re doing. And it’s very hard to give anyone advice because it’s the “art is whatever I say it is” and “rules are meant to be broken”. For me, I think before you break rules you should master them. But that’s just me.
I hear the same lame explanation for avoiding the research part of a project. "Oh, I don't want to be tainted." NORMALLY, that means I'm lazy and I don't want to know what's been done because I might learn that whats been done already is far superior to what I'm capable of.
I came up through film and the industry that surrounded it in 60's -70's London. I had the seemingly infinite energy of youth and I loved it, but it could be brutal. We've moved on, let's keep moving forward.
I know so many photogs who couldn't wait for that era to end. When you spent years in a darkroom on deadline and then someone said "Hey, you don't need to go in there ever again," plenty of folks were very happy.
I dont usually, or ever leave comments. But i love hearing what you have to say about photography, i picked up a camera a few years ago and fell in love. I started in the online world as its easy access, but soon getting sucked into chasing "Bangers" which led me to feeling somewhat bored and disheartened? "Why am i not getting the following i want, im posting everyday!" I started digging deep into research and found ol Salgado...Dude changed my life and fell in love. I want to shoot humanity like he did. I backed off from the online world and actually stumbled across you on Marc Silber youtube in doing so. Since then, you`ve inspired me and given me the knowledge, patience, reality check that i needed! Thankyou 😂 Im now working on different photo projects, actual long term ones and some short term ones. Back to journaling using pen and paper and everything feels better. Looking into creating magazines out of these. This is wayyyyy more fun then posting on instagram and the process is just where i want to be right now after a year and a bit of really immersing myself in photography. So yeah, long comment, bit of a ramble, its 7am here in the UK but thanks for your words and perspective, its really helpful.👉🏽
GREAT VIDEO AGAIN! THX! I'M WONDERING WHAT THE MOVING OBJECTS IN THE REFLECTION IN THE MIRROR ON THE LEFT ON YOUR WALL ARE... ESPECIALLY TOWARDS THE END OF THE VID. FALLING BOOKS? 😅
There was a point to this film… I’m about the same age as you, I’m a hobbyist and always have been since the 80’s, and I get your point about the shallow, instantaneous, « don’t even know I copy crap » world. Thankfully there is still an industry. Beside fine art, Fashion photography industry is currently very creative and experimental, even weird sometimes… and still have a voice commercially.…
Fashion tends to have budget. Hence, the time and the ability to hire folks who know how to shoot. I do see a lot of fashion that isn't good but that's always been the case.
I have a feeling it's more about the perceived respect that young photographers feel older ones had and the fact that they won't get any of it. Photography has been 'democratized' - every man and his dog have a camera. 'Photographer' now carries very little weight. And that's what I think what people are complaining about
Here's the thing. There are still stars being born and they are getting MAD attention, mad jobs and mad space in museums and galleries world wide. Paris Photo is the perfect example. Typically, a least a few new stars are born there each year. Same for things like Review Santa Fe. But new photogs won't ever get to that level by living in the online world.
In my opinion, the main problem out there, among young people, is there is no knowledge about philosophy of photography. They use to think in single images and technique but no projects as a piece of work. Likes, ego, and vanish from showing their images without no curation time. There is no visual culture and of course they don't want to make big effort to learn and read. They want to sell their works but they don't usually buy any others works so... I know is hard but I saw people how speak about Michael Ackerman for instance and say ,"is not in focus", that's hilarious.
you are spot on about the wanting to sell but not wanting to buy. At least with a certain subset of "photographer." So many people trying to be pros without any foundation outside of thinking an IG following is a great career. Odd but real.
When I'm talking about young photographers I mean people who have a few years of experience in photography, not in age. One issue I find on internet is there is no good content to teach new people, just RUclips, and you know what kind of "content creators" are talking about photography. People who are truly damaging photography in my opinion. Camera brands are so happy of course, they sell a lot of equipment with this RUclipsrs. My best advice is learn, read and watch people with good criterion like Milnor, MoMA videos, and that kind of stuff. Researching about narrative, simbology and color, is a good advice as well. Select your subject. And think about an idea and then go out and shoot. Of course, I'm just a nobody NPC so I don't mind if people believe me or not. Be happy my friend!
Who are "photographers" these days?. Perhaps there should be reclassification on the term "photographer" in these times. I tend to refer to the RUclips " photographers" as SWAC : Someone With A Camera. Cheers Ian. So poignant what you said right at the end regarding the tick-tok woman. You summed it up perfectly.
I just looked up Duane Michals and his work. Very cool...I had seen the Warhol portrait (the one where Warhols' head is blurred from motion), but never knew who created it. Michals' work "The Spirit Leaves the Body" has the same idea I had about creating a series of a person in bed, and using double exposures, creating the 'spirit' look...without ever having seen that series of his. Now I almost feel like I can't do it because it's been done. LOL Avedon's "Nastassja and the Serpent" is the image that got me into photography. When I saw it in the early 80s when it was created, I knew I wanted to do portrait work. It just took me 30 years to finally getting around to doing it.
Not everyone can ramble. Photography kind of sucks you in and then you realize… Enjoyable video, makes me want to bust out a few lines from the Music Man. Oh and thanks for the pen tip. I’m a sucker for any kind of stationery supply.
Great vid - thanks. I discovered Duane Michal’s at design school last century. His work blew me away. I stole a Michal’s book from the university library and have felt guilty about it ever since.
Perhaps a little confusion about the Ohto pens. The Ohto Dude is a conventional fountain pen with nib (~$20). The Ohto Fude is a roller ball pen (~$3). Don't know if it come with a ceramic ball, but the C-300 refill for that pen does have a ceramic ball.
Very good episode about the reality of how things are, about the industry and the online world etc it just needs to be accepted. Will you do a video walk around , you might not be aloud but would be great , however there is some footage from last year 😊
Hmm, there is a Photo London, but I have not yet visited. paris Photo is the largest photo show in the world, and it is really about the image and the book and not about anything else. I might try to hit Fotopia in Hamburg but that is more tradeshow.
Absolutely dead on. I was shooting in phoenix at that time. Started an ad agency in 1993. Now I was commercial, and had a blast from 1974 to 1990. Eventually opened up another studio in early 2000s, but I did graphic and web design as well as photography. Now I am encouraging photographers to develop more skills to stay in the visual realm. Unfortunately too many photographers have too much romanticism about the abstract illusion of what a photographer should be. Duane Michals was one of the most influential photographers ever. Your YT is one of the very few bullshit free photo sites I know of. Please never show us how you make coffee.
Don, you NEED my coffee. It's life changing. And your cardiologist might disagree. I think what it means to "be a photographer" has changed dramatically. Knowledge, optional now.
Thanks for the dump Dan, always worth a listen, Duane Michals 👍! “May not be back!” Nonsense: Your RUclips films are just another form of journaling, and thankfully, you can’t help yourself! 😂
Did you have the Green Chile Roll? Green chile is New Mexico’s gift to the sushi world. Sushi places in other places just look at me funny when I ask about it.
Build a platform that is yours and not based on something like IG or Substack or Medium or Clubhouse, etc. All these platforms are going away, so when they do leave you are stuck having to jump to another platform. And modern algos will never allow for you to crack their code like the algos of the past. why not have your own site, your own newsletter, both paid and free. Build a real audience instead of bots and strangers.
Dan, we need a 15 minute EDC ‘what’s in my bag’ video with affiliate links and a sponsor segment ASAP or else we can’t take you seriously as a content creator 😂
Dude that is so ironic that I saw the same woman on the ferry here in the Philippines. She could noooot stop flipping thru her selfies. WTF is wrong with people?
Its funny. Young people from wealthy familys think they made it because they have followers who like to see pictures from far places, luxus, polished with filters. 300k followers... In the end, nothing that stayes. like cheap fast food. It's like serving frozen convience burgers and be like "i'm the greatest chef of all time".
I have thought that about a lot of the work I see. Take Alec Soth(gonna get hate for this) BUT, MAN HIS WORK, TO ME, SUCKS! Money and connections ??? I could list many many more. It's disheartening
I don't know him but I do like him and I do like his work. Not all of it but I love Niagara. He's also a super talented publisher, bookmaker. Little Brown Mushroom proves what one guy and an intern can do. It's impressive.
I have a Rottweiler and she’s naturally aggressive, and I keep her on a short leash and a muzzle and when some silly person wants to walk over and pet her, I quickly tell them she’s a guard dog-not friendly to strangers-don’t get close-so, a verbal warning also helps with “friendly” people who want to pet stranger dogs.🙄
Here in the US a bite means lawsuit and death of the dog. I was bitten two years ago by a dog the owners claimed wasn't aggressive. Turns out the dog had already bitten two others and went on to bite someone after me. Now, dead dog. Owners still claim the dog was mello.
@@DANIELMILNOR505I’m glad you’re okay, if the dog doesn’t have its immunization a dog bite can cause all sorts of health problems to the person bitten.
@@maxbashyrov5785sure there is-some breeds are more inclined to be docile-take a course on dog breed you’ll be amazed at what you learn. You’re welcome.😊
The grid book at 6:43. I borrowed it the library, thinking how detailed can it be? I just started reading it earlier today. Holy doodle. I might have to renew to get through it. Thanks for mentioning it!
It's a nightmare of detail. So much to learn. One reason why making books terrifies a lot of folks.
This is why the world needs you, Dan.
Great one. A real milnor black and white indoors and enough to say to easily fill half an hour without a empty moment. No zero bit nonsense here. Thanks
I first came across Duane Michals in the mid 1970s. I was still a teenager, had bought my first SLR and was crazy about photography. I'd already talked my parents into buying me the Time-Life Photography books, which were a fantastic subscription series of books about photography. I then came across a series of books called "Masters of Contemporary Photography", which included books on Michals, Art Kane, Bert Stern, Elliot Erwitt, Will McBride, Annie Liebovitz and Mary Ellen Mark (they had to share), and covered lots of different genres of photography. They were filled with photos and text about the work, and a section at the back showing techniques that were used such as lighting and lenses, etc. I read those books over and over, but the surrealism of Michals' work really appealed to the slightly weird teenage me. Those and the Time Life books were stashed at my mum's house when I left Australia and have long since disappeared, but I managed to find used copies of the Masters books, so they are back on my bookshelves and get regular perusals, even if they seem a little dated and the print. quality isn't great. Old books like these are fantastic for learning about photography because it wasn't all about the gear, although it does get mentioned when discussing certain techniques, it was as an addendum.
Man, the good old days of publishing. Most likely not going to happen today but at least we had them at one time. Good find.
I'd say it's not only just digital cameras that revived that "mature industry", but the whole IT/hardware "revolution" of 90s, which made computing available to masses.
That's part of it. The "digital photography" explosion and all the accompanying industries.
Lots of good stuff in this...(I'm 40+ years a jobbing pro', hard work, little money, like many...) Btw, I like the 4 colours Biro, so handy.
I enjoyed this video!
It occurred to me during your video that I don’t hear much about the joy of photography these days. It’s always about following or the professionalization of it. For many like me (enthusiasts who enjoy the act of creation), I would love to hear you on the joys of photography.
Cheers!
GREAT question. And adding this in to a film.
Wow, Duane Michals work is really cool. Thanks for introducing me.
Oh damn! The hook team jumped out of the cupboard and got me good, as I was googling Duane Michals.
and damn again.......I like his work.
For pens, I’ve been a big fan of Tactile Turn. They’re made in the USA and come in bronze, titanium, copper, and zirconium. There’s tons of ink refills that you can use.
What type of tip. I'm intrigued.
Personally I think part of the reason most photography is now all style and no substance is that people want to go from 0 to 100 without knowing any basics of what it is that they’re doing. And it’s very hard to give anyone advice because it’s the “art is whatever I say it is” and “rules are meant to be broken”. For me, I think before you break rules you should master them. But that’s just me.
I hear the same lame explanation for avoiding the research part of a project. "Oh, I don't want to be tainted." NORMALLY, that means I'm lazy and I don't want to know what's been done because I might learn that whats been done already is far superior to what I'm capable of.
Eat this, Peter McKinnon
He seems like a nice dude and gotta give him credit for building what he did. Probably made enough coin to do whatever he wants.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 yeah I guess so, although he's part of the social media circus.
And so are you and so am I and so is Mr. Milnor.
Another of your best episodes Dan. Hilarious........and as always, so motivating to get off my butt and pick up the camera.
Yep, just go snap something.
I came up through film and the industry that surrounded it in 60's -70's London. I had the seemingly infinite energy of youth and I loved it, but it could be brutal. We've moved on, let's keep moving forward.
I know so many photogs who couldn't wait for that era to end. When you spent years in a darkroom on deadline and then someone said "Hey, you don't need to go in there ever again," plenty of folks were very happy.
I dont usually, or ever leave comments.
But i love hearing what you have to say about photography, i picked up a camera a few years ago and fell in love.
I started in the online world as its easy access, but soon getting sucked into chasing "Bangers" which led me to feeling somewhat bored and disheartened? "Why am i not getting the following i want, im posting everyday!"
I started digging deep into research and found ol Salgado...Dude changed my life and fell in love. I want to shoot humanity like he did.
I backed off from the online world and actually stumbled across you on Marc Silber youtube in doing so.
Since then, you`ve inspired me and given me the knowledge, patience, reality check that i needed! Thankyou 😂
Im now working on different photo projects, actual long term ones and some short term ones. Back to journaling using pen and paper and everything feels better.
Looking into creating magazines out of these. This is wayyyyy more fun then posting on instagram and the process is just where i want to be right now after a year and a bit of really immersing myself in photography.
So yeah, long comment, bit of a ramble, its 7am here in the UK but thanks for your words and perspective, its really helpful.👉🏽
I think we are related. Man, that concept of "bangers" is such an odd thing. I'm hoping that goes away as quickly as possible. Slow is good.
GREAT VIDEO AGAIN! THX! I'M WONDERING WHAT THE MOVING OBJECTS IN THE REFLECTION IN THE MIRROR ON THE LEFT ON YOUR WALL ARE... ESPECIALLY TOWARDS THE END OF THE VID. FALLING BOOKS? 😅
Hmm, shadows? That's a window...
“We’re close, we’re close, we’ve got our best team of monkeys right now on the case.” 🤣🤣🤣
There was a point to this film… I’m about the same age as you, I’m a hobbyist and always have been since the 80’s, and I get your point about the shallow, instantaneous, « don’t even know I copy crap » world. Thankfully there is still an industry. Beside fine art, Fashion photography industry is currently very creative and experimental, even weird sometimes… and still have a voice commercially.…
Fashion tends to have budget. Hence, the time and the ability to hire folks who know how to shoot. I do see a lot of fashion that isn't good but that's always been the case.
I have a feeling it's more about the perceived respect that young photographers feel older ones had and the fact that they won't get any of it. Photography has been 'democratized' - every man and his dog have a camera. 'Photographer' now carries very little weight. And that's what I think what people are complaining about
Here's the thing. There are still stars being born and they are getting MAD attention, mad jobs and mad space in museums and galleries world wide. Paris Photo is the perfect example. Typically, a least a few new stars are born there each year. Same for things like Review Santa Fe. But new photogs won't ever get to that level by living in the online world.
Don’t hook-kick me!! Can you possibly in the future post a list of photographers to know? 😅❤
Dan, the dude abides.
In my opinion, the main problem out there, among young people, is there is no knowledge about philosophy of photography. They use to think in single images and technique but no projects as a piece of work. Likes, ego, and vanish from showing their images without no curation time. There is no visual culture and of course they don't want to make big effort to learn and read. They want to sell their works but they don't usually buy any others works so... I know is hard but I saw people how speak about Michael Ackerman for instance and say ,"is not in focus", that's hilarious.
you are spot on about the wanting to sell but not wanting to buy. At least with a certain subset of "photographer." So many people trying to be pros without any foundation outside of thinking an IG following is a great career. Odd but real.
When I'm talking about young photographers I mean people who have a few years of experience in photography, not in age.
One issue I find on internet is there is no good content to teach new people, just RUclips, and you know what kind of "content creators" are talking about photography. People who are truly damaging photography in my opinion. Camera brands are so happy of course, they sell a lot of equipment with this RUclipsrs.
My best advice is learn, read and watch people with good criterion like Milnor, MoMA videos, and that kind of stuff. Researching about narrative, simbology and color, is a good advice as well. Select your subject. And think about an idea and then go out and shoot.
Of course, I'm just a nobody NPC so I don't mind if people believe me or not.
Be happy my friend!
Who are "photographers" these days?. Perhaps there should be reclassification on the term "photographer" in these times. I tend to refer to the RUclips " photographers" as SWAC : Someone With A Camera. Cheers Ian.
So poignant what you said right at the end regarding the tick-tok woman. You summed it up perfectly.
The title photographer has certainly changed over the past few decades. NOt sure it has much meaning anymore.
I just looked up Duane Michals and his work. Very cool...I had seen the Warhol portrait (the one where Warhols' head is blurred from motion), but never knew who created it. Michals' work "The Spirit Leaves the Body" has the same idea I had about creating a series of a person in bed, and using double exposures, creating the 'spirit' look...without ever having seen that series of his. Now I almost feel like I can't do it because it's been done. LOL
Avedon's "Nastassja and the Serpent" is the image that got me into photography. When I saw it in the early 80s when it was created, I knew I wanted to do portrait work. It just took me 30 years to finally getting around to doing it.
My wife once posed for a remake of that image. I've never let her live it down.
Not everyone can ramble. Photography kind of sucks you in and then you realize… Enjoyable video, makes me want to bust out a few lines from the Music Man. Oh and thanks for the pen tip. I’m a sucker for any kind of stationery supply.
It's a great pen.
16:09 😂😂😂😂😂 So good! … Love this channel.
Great vid - thanks. I discovered Duane Michal’s at design school last century. His work blew me away. I stole a Michal’s book from the university library and have felt guilty about it ever since.
That's a good theft in my book.
if Duanes world is like Waynes world i'm in 👍...sorry, as soon as you said it the theme song popped into my head...
Love Wayne's World.
Perhaps a little confusion about the Ohto pens. The Ohto Dude is a conventional fountain pen with nib (~$20). The Ohto Fude is a roller ball pen (~$3). Don't know if it come with a ceramic ball, but the C-300 refill for that pen does have a ceramic ball.
I've seen the Dude in ceramic roller.
You are correct Mr Milner
Very good episode about the reality of how things are, about the industry and the online world etc it just needs to be accepted. Will you do a video walk around , you might not be aloud but would be great , however there is some footage from last year 😊
Not sure I follow. What kind of video walkaround?
At the show in Paris to give us some idea of what goes on there , just a thought
Dan, any recommendations for other European trade fairs like Paris Photo?
Hmm, there is a Photo London, but I have not yet visited. paris Photo is the largest photo show in the world, and it is really about the image and the book and not about anything else. I might try to hit Fotopia in Hamburg but that is more tradeshow.
AMEN... and be back ;-)
Absolutely dead on. I was shooting in phoenix at that time. Started an ad agency in 1993. Now I was commercial, and had a blast from 1974 to 1990. Eventually opened up another studio in early 2000s, but I did graphic and web design as well as photography. Now I am encouraging photographers to develop more skills to stay in the visual realm. Unfortunately too many photographers have too much romanticism about the abstract illusion of what a photographer should be. Duane Michals was one of the most influential photographers ever. Your YT is one of the very few bullshit free photo sites I know of. Please never show us how you make coffee.
Don, you NEED my coffee. It's life changing. And your cardiologist might disagree. I think what it means to "be a photographer" has changed dramatically. Knowledge, optional now.
another great video, thank you so much for the content
Thanks for the dump Dan, always worth a listen, Duane Michals 👍! “May not be back!” Nonsense: Your RUclips films are just another form of journaling, and thankfully, you can’t help yourself! 😂
I will return in new form...how's that.
Did you have the Green Chile Roll? Green chile is New Mexico’s gift to the sushi world. Sushi places in other places just look at me funny when I ask about it.
Of course! Not my favorite but it's mandatory just once.
Is there an blurb page for the fotowalk/ meetup?
www.eventbrite.com/e/billets-rencontre-photo-avec-blurb-paris-blurb-photowalk-paris-741777034077?aff=ebdsoporgprofile
Can you please explain what do you mean by ecosystem in this context?
Build a platform that is yours and not based on something like IG or Substack or Medium or Clubhouse, etc. All these platforms are going away, so when they do leave you are stuck having to jump to another platform. And modern algos will never allow for you to crack their code like the algos of the past. why not have your own site, your own newsletter, both paid and free. Build a real audience instead of bots and strangers.
Dan, we need a 15 minute EDC ‘what’s in my bag’ video with affiliate links and a sponsor segment ASAP or else we can’t take you seriously as a content creator 😂
And then three days later I will do another one with a new set of "essentials."
Duane Michals is 91 years old - he's been at it since 1958 - be patient boys.
You said it. Patience. Duane is on IG, by the way. At least that's what I was told.
Dude that is so ironic that I saw the same woman on the ferry here in the Philippines. She could noooot stop flipping thru her selfies. WTF is wrong with people?
It's literally millions of people and yet we still seem to want to ignore this reality.
Great video again Dan. Now my boss is asking for your number 😅
Oh along with Dwain Michaels, Peter Beard also comes to mind 😊
Beard was crazy and awesome and unique.
Bravo!!
Instagram is for posting your kids photos.
Its funny. Young people from wealthy familys think they made it because they have followers who like to see pictures from far places, luxus, polished with filters. 300k followers...
In the end, nothing that stayes. like cheap fast food.
It's like serving frozen convience burgers and be like "i'm the greatest chef of all time".
Yes, for many a sizable IG feed is considered success. Perhaps the majority of folks feel that way.
Didn’t Michals produce a body of work using multiple exposures? It wasn’t a gimmick in his hands and it isn’t in yours.
He did several. And they work well to illustrate this cinema style approach.
I have thought that about a lot of the work I see. Take Alec Soth(gonna get hate for this) BUT, MAN HIS WORK, TO ME, SUCKS! Money and connections ??? I could list many many more. It's disheartening
I don't know him but I do like him and I do like his work. Not all of it but I love Niagara. He's also a super talented publisher, bookmaker. Little Brown Mushroom proves what one guy and an intern can do. It's impressive.
I have a Rottweiler and she’s naturally aggressive, and I keep her on a short leash and a muzzle and when some silly person wants to walk over and pet her, I quickly tell them she’s a guard dog-not friendly to strangers-don’t get close-so, a verbal warning also helps with “friendly” people who want to pet stranger dogs.🙄
"naturally aggressive". there is no such thing.
@@rosemanbridge1000 or genetic defects/poor breeding
Here in the US a bite means lawsuit and death of the dog. I was bitten two years ago by a dog the owners claimed wasn't aggressive. Turns out the dog had already bitten two others and went on to bite someone after me. Now, dead dog. Owners still claim the dog was mello.
@@DANIELMILNOR505I’m glad you’re okay, if the dog doesn’t have its immunization a dog bite can cause all sorts of health problems to the person bitten.
@@maxbashyrov5785sure there is-some breeds are more inclined to be docile-take a course on dog breed you’ll be amazed at what you learn. You’re welcome.😊