What? We've been pulling our 40 ft. 5th Wheel with a 3/4 ton F-250!?
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- So, yeah. We probably need a bigger truck. Even though our 2021 F-250 is spec'd almost exactly like an F-350, it legally shouldn't be pulling our 40 ft. 5th wheel. In this video, I try to explain what we're doing and why. Anyone else been in this boat? What did you do?
Drop your comments down below and let's start a discussion. Thanks for your support and care.
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your sticker says it all. Change the trailer or the truck. DOT would love to talk to you lol
You’re probably fine until your involved in an accident while towing your camper. Your fault or not if there’s lawyers involved you could be held liable then comes the civil suit especially after lawyers see this video.
And most likely the insurance is not gonna pay for any damages to the truck trailer and the other vehicle damages or if other party sues you terrible decision. At this point forget what the truck can and can’t do 😂
@@lexuslowlife3055His gross weight was 26,300 so wonder how many times he’s been pulled in at weigh stations. Cant be more than 26k without a CDL. Unless he’s got it then nothing to worry about. Some states like Oregon for example, whether commercial or not if GW is 16k or more gotta stop at scales. My friend found this out the hard way, I had to go pick up him up and drive his setup home for him cause he didn’t have a CDL to operate it. Insurance companies, and DOT not letting things slide as easy now.
@@joshuastevens5910 I believe your tow rig and trailer weights and laws depend on your licensing state. So some states like Virginia allow a semi to be plated as an rv and that can pull a trailer that can pull a boat. I know its crazy but the RV lobbyists have allowed non-comercial drivers to be allowed to do commercial things under the RV classification. Look at the big Prevost RV's. They are 39k lbs (52k lbs gross) and you dont need a cdl, you can also tow a 10k enclosed trailer behind them without any special license or endorsements or stop at any weigh scale. I dont know the oregon laws but I have never stopped at a weigh scale with any of my rv's and I dont have a cdl.
@@bentickner1 26,001 and it’s when GCWR exceeds that. Technically have to have it but it’s a grey area.
They don’t know who is and who isn’t making money or it’s just personal use. For example someone with a 1 ton dually pulls a trailer with a pickup on it and they trailer exceeds 10k and total GCWR is 26,001 or more needs class a if they are selling the pickup being hauled but if they bought it it’s not needed. If class A motorcoach pulls an enclosed with a car to car shows needs CDL. Its confusing lol
Personally, I don't pull anything that exceeds 85% of the truck's capacity. Lot's of people seem to want to avoid dually's, but I think you could easily justify upgrading to a DRW truck with your trailer. The difference in stability is night and day, no hitch weight concerns whatsoever, you have a safety factor in the event of a rear tire blowout (imagine that blowout in the curve of a mountain road at the bottom of a hill), and better braking. The question for me is not weather or not a truck "can" pull something, but how safe is my truck pulling the load. When nothing is going wrong, the truck is probably safe. What about when more than one thing is going wrong? Suppose you are in a 35mph crosswind and have to swerve and brake at the same time? You’re going to find out if you have enough truck the hard way
Right my DRW 2021 3500 Cummins has a max payload of 7,230 and its setup for both 5th wheel and gooseneck. 2021 ram year had some of the highest numbers in ratings, even beat fords. Mine is also the high output. Max tow rating is 34,600 mine is 4x4.
Ok so I’m a weight enforcement/commercial vehicle Trooper for a very large state agency. The misconception is when dealing fifth wheels and 3/4 ton trucks is some how we’re going to look at your truck GVWR and say you can only carry this much. That’s not true. In you’re configuration you’re really just limited by tire rating. Other than that you’re the same as a dually. So……tire rating by federal standards is done per tire….tire rating in my state is by axle because you are not a commercial vehicle. You’re tire rating has you at 6900lbs on the rear axle. Your weight ticket has you at 7580. So you’re over tire rating. It’s not how many tires you have in the road way. Each individual tire experiences individual weight standards.
Thanks for this great comment.
Thanks for this! I was thinking the tires would be the issue. The most likely thing to occur when pulling an RV is a tire blowout and those can be absolutely devastating .
Exactly, and that is why I am getting four 245/70/19.5" wheels & tires SRW since the sticker and tire rating is getting too close in my situation.
Dood..... it's not even close to enough truck.... the dry hitch exceeds your payload !!!! Oh and your truck is also not even close to a srw 350
Your tires aren’t sufficient. You have 7600lbs on the rear axle and only 6900lbs of tire capacity. You have a total of 12640 lbs on the truck axles and a 10800gvw. Even a SRW F350 only has a 12,400gvw.
Don’t tow over your trucks capacities. You are leaving yourself open to huge liability
Tire pressure label in the door jam is recommended tire pressure. Number on tire is max pressure for maximum load.
Big Truck big Rv would have a stroke watching this video. You are way over on your pay load rating. I'm sure you can feel that 5th wheel pushing that truck around,especially going down a steep grade.
😂😂🤣🤣 - Ain't that right?!
LOL!! Yeah, I was hoping he'd see this video. I honestly haven't noticed it pushing us around but It does get a little slower at braking on declines. That's why I felt comfortable making this video; because I couldn't believe it was so outmatched. But yeah, we're gonna do something about it.
I towed a 16k outrage and trailer across the US through Flagstaff and back, it dragged that thing around like it was a dinghy. Cat scale said close to 25k, almost Class A land.
Bottom line .get in a serious accident and your ins co can deny your claim in wich the lawyers will go for everything you own.
I certainly don't want that...
Bro, super excellent video. Not only did you do a great job of capturing the most important aspects but I’m super lucky cuz I literally just purchased my Solitude 372WB yesterday and I do not have the truck to haul this 42’ behemoth. I drive a Ford F-150 King Ranch which I absolutely love (2018 w 28k miles) and certainly am not get’n rid of….. the wife has a 2011 Acura MDX in fabulous condition w a $10k sound system (sound systems are my hobby) but she offered to sell her car so we could buy another truck to haul our trailer…… uhhh Damn….. O KAY Honey I’ll buy another truck 😂😂😂😂
So, we are going shop for a Ford F-250 diesel crew cab 4x4 since we’ve already had two and loved them cept the wrong year but that’s another discussion….
This video was unique to me cuz we have very similar trailers and I do not want a Dually or 1 ton cuz my neck is 90% fused as well as certain levels in my low back so the 3/4 ton is a much softer ride yet will tow the same as the 1 ton. It turns out that the drivetrain and power train is the exact same w the Ford F-250 vs. F-350. The ONLY difference is the added overload springs in the rear suspension and a larger stiffer sway bar in the front. Other than that it’s the EXACT same truck. It’s typically about a $1500 dollar difference. Of course that was in the 2004/2006 time frame but I’d venture to say it hasn’t changed much since then as far as pricing goes. I have considered other trucks like the Dodge and its neck and neck I will admit BUT, the Ford still actually out does the Dodge. Now I’m an actual rodeo cowboy and have the pictures, video tape, and buckles (and ex-wife) to prove it and I’m not partial to any one manufacturer… just want a truck that dies the job and lasts if I take care of her. Now my 04 6.0ltr. I had to do a buy back from Ford BUT I still believed in their product and gave’m another shot. I bought a 2006 and received in 2005 so I was considered ahead. Lariet trim package again. Beautiful truck. Loved it. BUT I replaced practically EVERYTHING on that truck. Granted it was under warranty but I had a lot of lost time and inconvenience. At 117k in mileage, I gave up and sold my baby. Sad day cuz I appreciated that truck and all the work it did for me. ANYWAYS, forward and technology has changed and motors have changed…..etc. all that to say …that being said, I appreciate your video cuz it helps a guy like me feel solid about my research and interest in basically the same truck/set up since we literally just bought a 2021 Grand Design Solitude 372WB trailer and want to make sure we are purchasing the right truck for our needs and set up. I apologize for being long winded w this reply but it meant A LOT to us and we were extremely grateful. So thank you again and God Bless you and your family and be safe out there. If we were so lucky we would cross paths out there and be able to shake your hand in person and maybe make dinner for ya’ll to say thank you.
Take good care,
Matthew, Lindsay
Thanks for your wonderful comment. I'm glad this video was of some help. I made this video because I wanted to see if anyone out there was thinking the same things I was. I'm not a cowboy myself, but that life is rooted deep in dad's side of the family (from Wyoming) so I respect that. Thank you for sharing and I'm glad you got something out of this. God bless you guys also.
This video is hilarious. It sounds like you are just trying to justify your f up. Lol. The truck is way over load. Plain and simple. That tech at the dealer should be fired. And you should either go grab a dually or sell the solitude and grab a reflection. Lol.
I hear ya. Yep, we're gonna do something about it!
That was a fantastic video. You are spot on. I've had enough of the door sticker Nazis myself.
What you didnt mention or maybe didnt consider is ‘insurance’…in an accident if you are beyond legal limits your insurance company decline any claim you make…which they do quite regularly.
There are a few differences in your F250 Platinum Crew Cab vs F350 regular cab plain jane model, #1 there's a few hundred pounds; now the F350 SRW Crewcab also has a larger rear axle. They have some of the same gearing,however, the F250 has a 2" rear block and the F350's have a 4" rear block. Also the LWB(8 or 9') will increase your payload.
Thank you for these specs!
The 6.5 ft bed is the best compromise for those who do not want an 8 footer. The 5 ft short bed, unfortunately, doesn't really cut it on any size F Series. A F-350 or F-450 is not going to respond to a short bed any better than a F-150 or F-250 Super Duty. The popular rule o f thumb was always "Get your RV first then get your truck,so you know exactly what can pull it."
I was told at dealership that the rear axle was the same as my f250 and a f350 just blocks were different he told me I could do a dually conversion kit on my axle save money I was looking at a 39 ft camper I've pulled 16k lb of logs but not far like pulling a camper 4 hrs away it handled it fine
Rear end is not the same! F250 has the 10.5" Eaton and a F350 has a Dana80 which has bigger bearings and way more superior
Great video. But you don't need to convince us. YOU NEED TO CONVINCE THE JURY IN A CIVIL LAWSUIT AND THE PEOPLE'S FAMILIES INVOLVED IF YOU EVER HAVE A BAD ACCIDENT. EVEN IF YOUR FOUND NOT AT FAULT IN THE LEGAL PART OF IT. YOUR OVERLOADED, IT'S NOT WORTH THE RISK! GET THE RIGHT TRUCK!!!
I appreciate your comment. Definitely going to make some changes right away.
Dear God you have no idea what you’re talking about it’s scary, and if your pin wt is behind your axle your hitch is in the wrong spot,
Just statically sitting your pin weight is over your manufacturer’s cargo capacity. Now add 2 adults, your 5th wheel hitch, stuff you put into your truck. Yikes! Perhaps you should have a defense attorney on retainer. Most people would say never go over 75% of manufacturer’s max ratings.
Thanks for your comment. I totally get it - we've made some big changes. More videos coming soon.
We pull our 397TH “Big Mo” with a GMC Sierra 3500HD dually with the 8 foot bed. I got lucky and found a used one. I like the suggestion of just going with the 450 dually. Better to have more truck than what you need.
The dealer is only trying to sell rvs
That's for sure
Toss some air lift 5K airbags and a compressor. Then upgrade your tires to F rated 12ply and ride Clyde.
That is the wrong truck to tow that 5th wheel and I dont care about stickers or PSI. I personally think if you are towing over 15k pounds you should have a dually. Tow over 20k and your trailer should have dual tandems. Just wait till you lose a tire at 70mph.
U never have too much truck!
We pull our Grand Design 337rls with a 2018 f250 gas truck. Been doing it for about 4 years now with no problems. Only problem I have found is refilling the truck on trips. Have to pull that camper through regular gas pumps.
Good to hear. Yeah, I think the diesel has that going for it. Can't imagine pulling a large camper through a regular gas station because of a gas truck. It's been nice to use the truck lanes, but I try not to get in their way.
The f350s use a heavier duty dana 310 axle vs the sterling. There is a high capacity f250 but they use the f350 heavier duty axle
Very foolish and it’s common that’s the sad part.
I agree, safety first
You are incorrect on tire load capacity. Your rear axle gawr is 6800 lbs by max tire load. Your scale shows 7580 lbs rear axle weight. That means you are overloaded by 780 lbs on the rear tires and 1840 lbs over gvwr. You are way overloaded. . I love the argument that a F250 with the 10800 gvwr package is a F350. Well F350 has a higher gvwr. Even with a F350 11500 lb gvwr you would still be borderline over loaded. I towed my 13500 lb fifth wheel with a ram 3500 mega cab are. It was 400 lbs under rear gawr and 100 lbs over gvwr and 100 lbs under gvwr. It pulled ok until I got pushed through a intersection in a emergency stop and pushed around in crossed winds moved up to a F350 dually. Pulls great. A very comfortable tow. That's what you need for a 16500 lb gvwr camper
Thank you for the advice. I hear ya. I need to try out the dually.
Payload, Payload, Payload. period.
I have 2015 Ram, 6 4L Hemi, 4:10 axle ratio.
Payload 3200 lbs
Pulling a 42ft Forest River Sabre , 11,400 dry weight. Tongue weight 2100lbs
I personally never would have paired your camper and truck together.
Be safe out there
Go through yours numbers. You’re a danger for other on the road…
Will do. We're not actually traveling at the moment. So there's some time to make changes.
when my wife and i bought our truck/trailer-several of the ole timers told me the same thing; you may be able to tow that weight but can you "stop it". Just as important...be careful.
Door sticker for tires is just what ford recommends for best ride and not tripping the tpms sensors. Rating on tires is what tire manufacturer recommends for safe psi
My understanding is the rating on the tire is the maximum pressure you should put in it under any circumstances.
If you buy a trailer house, buy a single screw haul truck….TRUCK!
Any thing less, unsafe.
Something not adding up ?2022 platinum there no way the curb weight is near 9k . The max specified curb IS no more 7500 . Most are 6700 or less . The bed payload should be at least 3300 min. Should be more .
This is the most inaccurate and unsafe logic I've seen in a long time. You admit you're over on payload. But you're also over the gross vehicle weight for the trailer. You're over the maximum safe weight for the rear tires also.
1. The loaded trailer does NOT weigh 13,660. Your trailer is 13,660 PLUS the pin weight. You calculate pin weight by subtracting the unloaded drive axle weight from the loaded drive axle weight. Or 7,580-3840 = 3,740 13,660+3740 = 17,400. Your GVWR for the trailer is 16,800. 17,400-16,800 = 600# Your trailer is 600 pounds over the maximum gross vehicle weight rating.
2. You stated the tires have a max load of 3,450 at 80 psi. 3,450 x 2 = 6,900# So your rear axle tire capacity is 6,900#. But your weight ticket shows the rear (drive) axle weighs 7,580#. Therefore your rear truck tires are 7,580-6,900 = 680 pounds over their maximum safe weight.
Get it off the road and don't endanger the rest of us.
I think you’re confused about the weights, as most everyone is. For instance, regarding the tire limits. Each tire is rated for 3,450lb, that’s a max of 6,900lb. You’re at 7,580lb on the rear axle, well over the tire limit. That’s not a safe setup at all.
Thanks for your comment! Yes, it all tends to be more confusing than it should be. Even the sales people at dealerships don't get it (or don't want you to get it).
i did a lot of research and the rear axle is the same for 1500 and 2500. at approx 7800 lbs. i have a 1500 with a v6 and its fine but i dont go over 30 mph city driving only.
The frames are different between 250 and 350
nope
Someone else mentioned this as well. I'm gonna look into it.
Nope
I see some F250 trucks are 4x4 and others (like yours) is Fx4. Does this matter when towing?
You are delirious if you think your truck is a 350
I don’t think you can be ticked for that, the truck is still able to pull that amount of weight. I don’t think that dot would care if your trailer is putting too much weight on your truck
Best to go F450 dually. Much safer, you'll always pull below rated specs by a good margin.
We have an F350 SRW Lariat. Its GVWR is 11,400. The F350 has an additional leaf spring and a beefier rear axle. Our door sticker says 3444 lbs of payload capacity. We added Timbrens to help squat and add some lateral stability. We tow an Alliance 310 RL which is 15000 GVWR. We are very close to payload sticker limit.
The F250 heavy tow has the same M275 axle and leaf pack. Its derated so it can pull a larger boat trailer and stay under 26k, which requires a Class A. RV's are exempt from weight limits.
@@FLseahawk I would imagine most dealerships do not stock the F250 that way. I did read that the F350 still has a larger block in the block. We added Timbrens to our F350. does not increase the payload bit does redice squat and gives a bit more lateral stability.
Old video I know but your definitely over on you rear GAWR at 7580, 250s regardless of rear end (sterling or Dana) are 6340 while Srw 350s can be up to 7280 or so. Not over by a lot but still over. IIRC the OEM wheels are the limiting factor on the GAWR, I think those top out at the 7300ish for the pair. Your probably fine but you are exposing yourself to a world of hurt if you were in civil court. Good luck.
Dude, get the right truck. For the trailer you want to pull. your pin weight is way over your payload capacity. Quit justifying your lack of knowledge. Your not a female. Just admit you were wrong. And get the right truck.
Brother you are way over cargo capacity and you are asking for trouble sorry it is what it is
The fact that you have to defend the lack of truck you need to be legal should end the conversation. I have been driving what people call 18 wheelers for 40 plus years, I recently drove a one ton 4 wheel drive Ford f350 single wheel pulling 11k bumper pull its is not!!! Stable in the event you get in a jam. Then I drove a Dodge 1 ton dually pulled my 36 foot Montana 5th wheel, much better with duel wheels however again these chassis are to small and they are not Stable in an emergency compared to any class 8 (18 wheeler) I have ever driven, braking power is very poor in a quick stop, just look at a large 5th wheel coming down the road, the trailer is way way bigger then the pulling vehicle, it even looks out of proportion and it is, I feel they are frankly unsafe just look at the videos of them losing control and flipping on RUclips, you frankly need a 5 ton truck to make these combinations correct as far as safety goes.
tires are rated 80 psi truck recommended pressure 60 front 65 rear recommended NOT Rated
You actually think the dealer cares? He got the sale, good bye!
In many states, you must also be licensed to drive it, OVER 10000 LB TRAILER WEIGHT- NCDL MAY BE REQUIRED. PLEASE CHECK YOUR STATE.
Anyone knowingly towing overloaded is really "out on a limb". Your insurance carrier may decline to cover you should you be in an accident. If you don't want to get a DRW, you should give some thought to having a personal liability policy that exceeds your net worth.
Timbren's or air bags don't increase payload. They will level your truck and it may handle better but in no way do they help from a legal standpoint.
Your over your payload rating before you load or put people in the truck. Loaded you are way over your payload. As far as your questions you would have to ask ford but you don't have a f350 you have a f250 period.
Get a f450 - bigger brakes / much smaller turning diameter/ 48 gallon tank / truck tires.
whats that price... 130k ??
@@jakeMTSU I bought mine in 2018. F250 and F350 use LT tires, F450 has the same tire type as a semi - 19.5" rims. They can be hard to find. Good luck.
It's not a 350 no matter what you try convincing yourself. My srw 350 has a payload over 4k.
That's a great payload.
Yes my srw 350 is also over 4k
Great video. The weight ratings are very underrated. Sucks because many people are in the same boat as you, I know I was. Pulls great but insurance won’t be on your side in an accident.
Exactly
Weight ratings are as they are for a safety factor. Just because the truck has higher capacities than rated doesn't give you license to exceed them. They are rated lower for a reason, which is SAFETY!
I own a similar truck... 2022 F-250 Lariat with max towing and payload package; I have 2745 payload on my yellow sticker; however, my 5th wheel is a Cougar 24RDS and is only 7400 lbs empty with an advertised empty hitch weight of about 1400 pounds. My trailer does not sag my rear-end in the least bit. The F-350 has a bigger block in the back to help it stay level with more hitch weight and slightly stiffer springs, but you are correct... same tires, same axles, same engine, same frame, same brakes, etc... what you left out is vehicle registration issues, that's the limiting factor on the payload sticker. Buy an F-350, add the bigger rear block and stiffer springs, adds PSI in the tires and you can register it for 11,000+ pounds. Bottom line though... your trailer should be pulled with a 1-ton truck, and as your video documented... you are aware of that fact. Safe travels.
Thanks for your comment. I hear ya.
Lot’s of folks tout the 7.3 Godzilla and it sounds great on paper, but if you are pulling a 40’ rig, try getting gas at a standard station … can be a harrowing experience, we love refueling at truck stops with our diesel truck, way easier. Plus you give up an exhaust brake for mountains. The safety of an exhaust brake in mountains is paramount imho.
We love our diesel! Yeah, we do the same thing at truck stops.
Some Flying J & Pilot have RV lanes off to the side of regular pumps. Not as nice as trucker lanes, but better than too tight with cars.
I'm just curious. In your research, did you actually compare the spring packs between the F250 & F350? Do they have the same number of leaves? Do they both have an overload spring and is it the same? Are the leaves in the pack the same length, thickness, etc.? What about the axle tube, is it the same diameter? I know there have been several videos made about the F250 Tremor vs an F350 rear suspension, but they seem to draw the same conclusion: there is a difference between the F250 and the F350 non-Tremor models.
That depends greatly on srw trucks. The rear packs are not all the same it depends on the packages
Yes, we have the same leaf springs and axle diameter. The only thing I'm not sure of is the thickness of the frame.
I'm currently waiting for my f350 limited long bed, with a 12400 gvwr. Only 2000 more than your truck? But will make big difference. But you have s beautiful truck and will have no problems selling when ready. Good luck buddy.
Thanks! Limited eh? Nice...
Useless payload numbers. Use the GAWR, rear. What does it weigh with fuel, and hitch and people on rear axel. Subtract that from the GAWR and that is what the pin weight can be. Simple shit really.
Get a 350 dually. No brainer
Good video, everybody has comments about Towing , the worst ones are all the f150 guys that have the heavy tow package and are dead certain that they can tow a half ton rated fifth wheel or some crazy extremely long travel trailer just because the numbers fall just barely Within capacity. We Had a 2019 F250 with the higher GVW package and camper package and snow plow package which increased the spring rate. However our 2020 F-350 with the same higher gvw package and camper package and snow plow package gave us even bigger Springs. Both of our trucks were gassers. Our current 2020 F-350 has a 4,000 lb payload we pull our 12,100 pound 36 ft fifth wheel with no issues of course with the gas engine and actually can do up to 15,000 lb. Unless you park your truck next to a comparable same year F350 and actually measure not only leaf spring stack but also the length of each leaf spring and spring Arch , I don't think there's really any way of telling. I find it hard to believe that a manufacturer is going to make two identical trucks and just put different badges on them. Can you imagine spending the extra money for an F-350 only to have your friend pull up next to you with an F-250 and have the exact same suspension/axle setup. How many disgruntled F-350 owners you think that would be complaining to Ford wanting an explanation why they're bigger truck has F250 suspension on it. I know on the old body styles that the 10-in rear ends looked identical between the F350 and an F250 yet some of them had full floater style bearings. I don't know if they're still doing that, but I doubt it. Like you said, the issue is the legality part of things. You can continue to tow I'm sure hundreds of miles with no issues but it just takes once. Just like people driving without insurance for thousands of miles until that one time. And one of the things that everybody forgets is that it has nothing to do with the rear squat.. if a vehicle can handle the load it's going by the numbers obviously and more importantly if you're going to look at a vehicle and deem it safe visually, it's all about how much weight has come off that front end. Remember, the front end does 80% of the braking and 100% of the steering so the last thing you want to do is remove weight off of that front contact patch that meets the ground. By the way, the truck door tag PSI for tires are always what you're supposed to go by. Those tires are made for all kinds of different trucks out there in your case only Ford has deemed what PSI those tires are to be run at on your truck. It's not a discrepancy all manufacturers do it. Rarely does what the door tag say match what the tire says.
wow...long winded much lol
Thanks for your comment! Yeah it's like the parts seem to be the same, except the 350 uses steel bolts and the 250 has nickel ones. Or something like that.
@@CozyQueenAdventures stick with the quick start guide... I'll go with the full manual every time..
@@Foxboss9 nothing wrong with it, just a lot of info in one comment
I've had 12 ton In the bed of my 2017 super duty won't even pull the overload down😅
Myself I have a CDL I would buy a Peter Built to pull that monster let's talk about fuel mileage
It doesn't matter what calculations you come up with. The cargo capacity is set and not to be exceeded. If you get in a crash, you're toast. If your insurance knew what you are doing, you'd be cancelled. I was on a collision investigations team for many years. If you hurt or kill someone, including passengers, your truck and trailer will be scaled, and this video will be used as evidence of your knowledge of the weight issue. Criminal and civil exposure.
Good thing we've made some big changes, then! More videos coming soon.
You don’t have the leaf spring package as the 350. The 350 has another set of leafs. My 350 SRW has another 1000lbs of payload capacity
Buy the F450 dually and never look back. The ride of the F450 with the trailer on it will tell you all you need to know.
I'll check it out.
I look at it as the F-450 is a small commercial truck whereas the F-350 is a large pick up truck. One example of the differences are the F350 has zero grease fittings, the F450 has 19 grease fittings. The F450’s and up are commercial trucks that are meant to last as long as possible. Mostly being sold to businesses into a fleet. The owners want to get every mile they can out of them. Where as an F350 is more often sold to a private citizen. You want to talk leaf springs, take a look at the F450 chassis cab. I think the spring pack has 13 leaves in it not 100% sure on this but it’s huge compared to the 450 pick up truck. The chassis cabs are designed to have a permanent heavy load sitting on top of those springs. Such services as ambulance, fire trucks, tow trucks, etc.… The 450 chassis cab frame rails are closer together than the 450 pick up truck. The big differences start behind the cab. From the back wall of the cab forward the 350 and 450 are pretty close to the same aft of the cab is where all the big differences come into play such as springs and frame rails. The GVW’s-GCVW’s are all political. Truck builders have to adhere to countless regulations that I know little about. I do know keeping GVW’s as low as possible is good for the company. We now know what these trucks can really tow. The new GVW’s and GCVW’s being 14K for the truck and as high as 40K for the trailer. Those numbers are for the 2023 F-450 with the new H.O. diesel! The numbers on the new diesel are 500 HP 1300 FTLBS Torque. Ouch!
Surprised your payload is that low. My F-250 XLT 2020 7.3 liter Godzilla has over 3000 lb payload. But then again, the Platinum has extra frills to take away from usable payload. Trucks are too plush now days and is quite sad…..these are work trucks and should have been left as such! I equipped also with Timbren frame stops and pull a lesser weight Grand Design fifth wheel easily. Remember ratings listed have been lowered as any manufacturer knows human nature is to push the envelope. We are well within specs for our setup on our 28BH.
But lawyers will certainly if they have not yet, on RV accidents and especially if you injure other parties, will be crunching numbers to sue you. I have said this for many years!
Yeah the Platinum has a very heavy panoramic sunroof. I've heard that makes a huge difference. I could certainly do without it.
For starters the axles in the f250 and f350 are different.
Нет, супер дьюти - одинаковые
Math is hard for you
Our 2022 KZ Durango Gold is 12,930 unloaded with a max GVWR of 16,000. She's 42.5 feet long. The BIGGEST concern for us, was handling. A Dully WILL handle the passing, and side winds better due to the extra 2 wheels in the rear. We're full timers, my wife and I also have 3 dogs in crates in the back seat. I want safety, which is a priority both for us and any jackass who likes pulling in front of us. I also put disk brakes on our 5th wheel for even more added safety. Plus, we ordered out truck with 2x4, not 4x4. 2x4 gives you more hauling and towing capacity.
Rule of thumb is get a truck bigger then you think you need.
Thank you for your comment!
Long bed yes air bag's to problem solved
BEAUTIFUL...VERY INFORMATIVE. GOOD JOB.
Thank you!
Definitely fine as long as your fine and comfortable
Bravo Sierra
I didn't hear but did you confirm on scales? Some ppl get up in arms assuming they trailer is maxed out which is something you can definitely control.
Personally I don't think you're unsafe: new, well maintained vehicle, prudent safe driving. But yeah, any accident and you're screwed because you're technically over. My understanding is these limits are based on pretty extreme cases (environment, road) but unfortunately there's only one value that goes on that sticker...
Exactly! Thanks for your comment. We thankfully never had any trouble.
I've been going through the same conundrum. Same truck as yours, 10800lb 2022. Looking at the numbers, if you have 4 full size males in your truck you can't pull any 5th wheel on the market. Absolutely ridiculous and totally nonsensical. Sticker is bogus.
Yeah, I can't help but speak out of pure experience. I just had to take the approach of using what we had, and what we had seemed to do the job just fine. If it ever ended up seeming iffy or unstable or something, I wouldn't have used that truck or bought that 5th wheel. But that wasn't my experience.
Lol a 250 what a joke
Mechanically speaking, you are driving what is 99% an F350. Ford derates F350's and rebadges them as F250 with a heavy tow package. You get the same Dana 4" M275 axle and spring pack. The reason Ford does this is regulatory in nature and it caters to boat owners. RV's are exempt from Class A licensing in most states, boats are not. If you take a heavy tow F250 rated at 10,800 pounds and hitch up a triple axle trailer with 3x 5k axles, you are at 25,800 pounds. If the truck were an F350, the GVWR would be 800 pounds higher and the same EMPTY triple axle trailer would require a Class A license. In a nutshell, Ford sells F250 heavy tows in boat markets and uses the F350 in the RV market. Good luck finding anyone that knows this, this took me weeks to dig up, piece by piece. You are more than fine. If someone gave you a hard time, explain this and point them towards the axle weights.
I had no idea about the boat use. This information needs to be more available or somehow more accessible to people!
@gotogethervlog the thing is, no one cares, not even law enforcement. The moment you put DOT numbers on the door and step into the commercial market it is expected that everyone knows. A lot of landscape and construction companies need the hauling but don't want to deal with hiring truck drivers that are also framers, etc. Staying under 26,000 pounds also keeps you out of random drug testing programs, ec.
Im AMAZED how many 3/4 ton guys out there are over payload weight! Especially with a diesel. Air bags dont increase payload Legally! For the price difference just buy a 1 Ton and save yourself the headache! I too believe in the 80% rule!
I have a smaller FW, and had a F350 SRW that was significantly overweight too. I switched to a dually.
Please, if you do a follow up video, include some reference to how UVW weight of your Platinum package makes a huge difference, as well as your passengers and cargo. Also you made absolutely no reference to braking capacity. Manufacturers are required by law to state the capacity of your specific vehicle as it is designed. Payload capacities are evaluated based on the weight of a vehicle and the capacity of that's vehicles axles and suspension to handle those loads. There is no trickery there. What the sticker says, is what it is in real life. Believing different, and then especially posting a video like this, is only going to add confusion and distrust in the systems put in place by NHTSA for all of our safety on the roadways.
Thank you for your comment. I respect what you're saying. I made this video to stir up the discussion because there are a ton of people on both sides of this argument. I would naturally believe the sticker, but then when everyone you know starts telling you you're fine - it gets confusing. As a heads up, we're not actually pulling with this F-250 anymore, which I'll reference in an upcoming video.
Too bad you don’t have a real truck. Ford quit building real trucks in 1997.
Lol. I'm not partial to Ford. What is a real truck?
I have a 2021 F-250 7.3 2900# payload, to keep it legal I have been looking at a max loaded weight of around 13,000 pounds. My research is that most of the components are the same but there is an added leaf spring in the 350's that adds that 1000 pounds of payload to the cost of a harsher ride. The leaf spring is an easy swap or add on and if I were towing that rig I would probably look into that as aa stopgap till you get a new truck.
Thanks for the tip, I'll definitely look into that!
You can't just add leaf springs to make it a f350 legally all goes by what's in the door
You can just get 350 suspension and have Ford certify it 350 which shouldn't be much as the drive trains are exactly the same 250-450 except ratio. 3.31,3.55,3.73 which don't think they do diesel with 3.73 anymore,4.10,4.30 etc..
Trade your truck. I know the 250 diesel will pull it fine, but it’s the braking that will get you in the end. I know for a fact because I’ve been there, the F-250 has a heck of a time stopping a 5th wheel with that much weight. That’s why I went to a 350 with 7.3 gas. Good luck in finding a truck to handle the Solitude. I pull a similar Solitude with the 350.
You have trailer brakes for a reason. As long as you are within your combined gvwr you are able to stop fine. F250 is 10,000lbs 5th wheel is 16800 so you have a total of 26800lbs. He is more then in spec.
@@krice24 trailer breaks are required for something like that but thats still not enough. The guy should get a 350 because Overtime the only pockets he is hurting is his own. I a trailer now and then with my old 250 that was over but it was not something I did everyday like this guy who lives on the road.
F-250 and F350 have the exact same brakes. The only white difference between a 250 and a 350 is the heavier springs and more leaf springs in the rear. Other than that they have the exact same body exact same frame exact same everything just what engine you choose is the difference in weight
@@kenj.8897 You are correct, the brakes are basically the same. Not sure what I’m thinking. My 16k lbs 5th wheel is much more difficult to stop than my 10k lbs 5th was with my F-250, but that’s likely more to do with the trailer brakes on the 5th wheel not being fully broken in.
I have the trailer brake set to 9.5 and I feel like that's correct for our weight. Seems to work great. The only time it feels a little sketchy is if I'm trying to brake quickly going downhill, but even then the truck and trailer brake has handled it.
Ur still doing the math wrong on ur hitch weight. The front axle is carrying some of the hitch weight too.
I would check to c how over u r on ur rear axle rating.
Best of luck and I enjoy watching this type of video.
Thank you!!
also check your owners manual for the full combined weight both truck and 5thwheel
Bumper pull towing capacity versus fifth wheel setup towing capacity has completely different ratings. You would be overweight if it was on
your bumper but all good with fifth wheel setup👍
I tow a 13,500 42’ fifth with a 2010 2500HD gas 6.0 no problem and the camper needs no help from the truck to stop it other than 12 volts DC for camper brakes. If I get stopped I keep a copy of my trucks towing capacity with fifth wheel setup over axle since the stickers in truck show capacity for a bumper towing capacity.
Nice!
Same conversation that comes up about my ‘91 F350 Dually. Im well within specs on GVW but back in the nineties there wasn’t a firm CGVWR put on specific trucks.
That all sounds fine on RUclips but not in court.
F-350’s suspension is specially tuned for recreational and commercial towing; it has a tight rear spring and a reinforced midsection, which makes it ideal for towing. May or may not work for Ford. Suspension and brakes are a big difference between the two
I have seen things that disprove what you said. F250 max tow package or tremor diesel is identical to a f350. Frame Brakes rear end tire and wheels. On ford's it changes at the 450.
@@Metal_Stacking if they are identical why are towing specs different?🤔
@@pulvermacher80 only the sticker in door jam and badge that says 250 vs 350. I went with 350 just for the legal gvwr rating on sticker.
@@pulvermacher80 I would tell you stop by a dealer and look unfortunately ford will not stock dealers anymore.
@@pulvermacher80 so you can tow a higher GVWR boat trailer and stay under 26k GCWR. Rv's are exempted from this.
Just keep making videos and they will pay for it
This hitch is in the same spot in relation to the rear axle in both long and short beds. Get some air bags to help with the sag.
I think the springs may be different. It's not always as easy as counting the leafs. The could also be different thicknesses.
My 99 f350 has over half a million miles and will easily tow anything I put behind it.
When you get your new truck, get a long bed. No point in having a 1 ton truck that can't hold a single sheet of plywood...
Agreed! Long bed all the way.
Airbags don’t increase the max cargo capacity and don’t increase the integrity/ strength of the truck frame. With a 2690 lb cargo limit this 5th wheel is over the cargo limit before you add passengers, hitch and junk you usually carry in your vehicle. Most sane people would say never go over 75% of max cargo or max trailering rating.
That ford will take it... My 88 f250 hd supercab would pull that trailer...my truck is the same as a 1ton .. same boat ur talking about
Thanks for your comment on this.
Your not driving a f350 for exact spec differences between the two I suggest powerstroke with Arod. He answers his emails with help with anything powerstroke and has a team of ford techs that help people. That being said I agree the trucks can handle more than what some sticker says. But legally i wouldn't want to be liable. I drive a SRW f350 long bed.
Thanks, this is a great comment.
If your hitch wait is over your payload capacity so doesn't that mean your overloaded? As far as same as 350 payload your a little less my last 250 with camper package (extra leaf) was 3601 my current 350 is 3636 so your a bit less than a 350. It's not about the truck handling if you get DOT inspection your getting tickets your over weight for the truck you have bottom line.I do agree your truck will do it but legally your pushing your luck if something happens as far as accident and some gets hurt it there would probably be legal and financial issues for you even if not your fault
I appreciate your comment!
Did you ever compare the weight of the f350 vs the f250 truck by themselves or the wheel base? Just these values can make towing a lot safer if the tow vehicle is a bit heavier or longer.
They are relatively the same truck. I own a 16 f350, and a 17 f250. And have owned several superduty trucks 04, 05, 06, 11, 13, 16, and a 17
Yeah, I'm looking at getting something both heavier and longer.
I have the same issue also and from what I've researched only thing I've came up with is basically the same as you.. I do know that FoMoCo "says" the leaf springs are thicker or beefier on the F350 along with the 4.10 to 4.30 axle ratio (srw or drw) which kinda makes a difference I as im sure you know on the 3.73,4.10 and 4.30s axle gear ratios just makes the drive shaft spin faster or slower depending plus a beefier axle like the Dana which I believe for 2023 they're putting the Dana axles on the front now with the high output 6.7 Powerstroke which 1,200 pound/feet of tourque and 500hp is absolutely insane and useless on a F250 6.7 or even F350 SRW as thats what most tractor trailers are rated at with 15 liter inline 6 monsters but hey to each his own but point being Ford has told me there are alot of very small differences in the actual leaf springs,front springs,heavier duty axles on the truck with higher gear ratios which no two trucks have the same cargo capacity I believe they said also I mean they can be a pound or two off but suspension,brakes and gear ratio are actually the only differences and yes they can make a world of difference but really we're paying for a SuperDuty truck and in 2019 the gooseneck rating for a platinum with 6.7 Powerstroke 3.55s gear ratio is supposedly 18,000 pounds so I think you'd be fine physically its just the lovely racquet system we all live with (if you think about anything and everything in our great nation these days) you would just have to pay more for a 350/3500 Heavy-duty/SuperDuty for the 3 things mentioned but it's only a couple thousand dollars truly for a great life style which also protects you and your family from the legal aspect not to mention what it could cost you financially,emotionally and possibly physically if something were to happen completely out of your control or not even your fault which obviously you fully understand but to me it's just not worth the millions of dollars possible liability plus if someone were to get hurt God forbid I know it would haunt me the rest of my life I'd I didn't do everything in my power just for a little sticker that the government says ok you're a good person I mean seriously in the 1990s we towed over weight by 5,000 or more pounds sometimes and never heard or seen anything about it but look at the shape everything is in not to be negative which apologies if seem that way..
@@rethergriffin2122we ordered a 2023 In Jan with long bed to avoid slider hitch and generally get a bigger bed for other stuff. Ford slammed the door on anything over and XLT. Refunded us our deposit. So we just started searching and finally found a 2022 sitting on our local dealership lot. It was Lariat Ultimate with 6.7ft bed, but had the towing package and beefier suspension etc. so we snatched it up. Come to pass, it was a lot cheaper than waiting for a 2024. Like $20k cheaper. We plan to buy the smaller Solitude or a Paradigm. Concern is the roof material primarily. We plan to upgrade the axles to 8k and get disc brakes. Those will add weight so it’s a trade off. It’s just two of us, no dog currently.
@longgone2023 sounds like ya'll have great taste in coaches and trucks! My wife and I are looking at a 324MBS Solitude while the buying power is kinda in the buyers hands buy yes beautiful coaches. We'll probably just upgrade to a F350 7.3 gasser 4.10 ratio 10 speed long bed Crewcab as that is plenty of pulling power and carrying capacity. Yes diesel is very nice especially the Powerstroke Diesel which has never had a lack of power issue by far and im the 2019 6.7 but with these new 10 speed transmissions and big gas tank option plus you'll average around 9-10mpg same as Diesel for me anyway hauling around 11,000 pounds currently (also depending on weather and terrain) is plenty for me so I figure 7.3 gasser with no worries of CP4.2 issues (which SS Motorsports has a new pump out but im not spending $2,000 on it when cummins and Duramax both recalled the CP4.2 for free back to the CP3 so Ford should do the same with this pump but good luck as they're all profit) and one turbo pipe that wouldn't be good on the Alaskan Highway etc.. Happy trails and maybe run across each other one day.. im going to go with cummins high output aisin transmission dually nothing newer than 2019 with quality issues these days now that I think about it.. anything over 2020 with any of big 3 I hear are having quality and dependability issue's.. who know's these days..
Smart. Your one of the few that understand. The f250 is a derated f350 for tac reasons. To please people just put f350 badges on it and airbags amd your an f350.
Thanks!
Just got my 22 F350 crew long bed a couple of weeks ago. Messing with the screens I hit on the tire pressure screen. Rear tires were 80 lbs, front were 65 lbs. Traded in a 2011 F250 and I don't think I ever put more than 65 lbs in those tires. We have a gravel drive and my grown son remarked how much smoother of a ride the 350 is. I say it's just because it's new. I ordered my truck back in late Jan and picked it up in mid Sept. I went with the F350 for just the reasons you were mentioning. We have a Grand Design Reflection that is about 40' but with just 3 slides. It is a bit lighter than your Solitude. But I wanted enough payload so I wouldn't be worried about it. I went with the 7..3 Godzilla and 4:30 gears. Pulled the trailer last week, just a short haul and it did fine. It's hilly here but no long pulls. I know it doesn't have the power of a powerstroke but I think it will work fine for me. And about 8k cheaper. Good luck finding another truck.
Thanks for your comment. Good to hear the 7.3 is doing fine for you. Agreed. I don't want to be worried about it anymore.
I pull often and I have my dually set at 65 front and 75 in summer as tires heat up so air expands in the summer. Winter 65/80. You want the rear at 80, as long as they are LT tires and the correct ply for the load.
Man I understand completely I just acquired a 2012 f250 and it specs out the same as a f350 srw. All I can figure is it was ordered that way specific. I freaking love it!
Hope you can find what your looking for when I was looking to upgrade from and 06 f250. The F450s were priced better than f250s, f350s.
I would say look at moving your weight around to help your pin weight I know you talked about having a follow vehicle put all you can in it and take it easy! We are suppose to drive the speed limit it's safer, but it seems many pay it no mind! Good of you to do your research and your trying to find a better solution best of luck!
Thank you! I appreciate that. We're definitely trying to move some weight around.
they also have a curt croswing 5th wheel so it is rated for 20000 lbs and 5000lbs pin weight should save you about 100lbs compared to regular 5th wheel
also it says your rear tires are 3750 lbs each at 80psi so total for both would be 7500lbs only , so you are over by 40lbs on each tire , you need the kanati armor hog 275 65 20 each tire rated a 4080lbs per tire so you would be good to about 8160 on rear axle
I have a 2022 GMC Sierra 2500 Duramax Sle with lots of option and ordered 20”. It’s max payload is 3400 pounds. It’s not a problem till it’s a problem if you get what I mean. Take care
Thanks! Yeah, I think I know what you mean.
It's the over all wight of the truck that sets the payload
Going through the same thing right now, learning what all the capacities are. My situation is a 2021 2500 HD short bed with camper/snow plow prep Z71 package, diesel/Allison .What I learned through research is GVWR 11350 - Curb weight of 8033 = 3317 max payload . That payload figure is what your limit is when you add hitch weight, people weight , fifth wheel weight installed in your truck and anything else in your truck. My hitch weight is 2150 unloaded with a UVW of 11669 lb. So after you subtract 2150 from max payload remaining is 1167 lb to cover added hitch , people, fuel etc. It adds up real quick. Also the ratio of hitch weight unloaded weight of trailer is approx 18% on my camper which means if your trailer is loaded to 140000 you have to figure new hitch weight using that 18% ratio.This example it would be 2520 not 2150. So you have to start the math all over and only have about 800 lbs left. seems your way over weight. Do a truck build on Fords site and you can come up with new specs and weights than compare. Think on a chevy its about 800lbs more max payload
Thank you for this great breakdown. Calculations like this need to somehow be made more available and accessible for everyone to easily figure out.
@@gotogethervlog Perhaps those breakdowns do need to be more available and accessible. Or maybe people like you should know what the f*^# you're talking about before posting videos about things you don't know about.
You can give all the disclaimers you want, but your misinformation is going to get someone killed. It might be you and your family, or some innocent people just driving down the road.
If I were you, I'd pull this video off RUclips asap.
That's not the correct way to find payload...
Well Badger can you enlighten us on how you figure payload
@garyrex4429 simple...look at your door tag, it tells you the MAX payload of your vehicle including people, stuff, hitch, etc. Deduct those numbers from your payload capacity, and thats the maximum pin weight. If your 5th wheel weighs 12k pounds GVWR, then your pin weight is 1800 to 2160 pounds(15% to 18%).
You should already know this number! Open the damn door of your truck and read it!
Also, dont forget when a manufacturer comes up with that number its for one person, 1/4 of fuel and nothing else in the vehicle.
If I’m seeing correctly you have the short bed. So I was wondering if you are using a sliding hitch or if you found out it was not needed.
It is the slider in there, but we've never had to use it - even with a huge 5th wheel like this.