WHAT'S WRONG WITH JIREN? | MasakoX
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- Опубликовано: 10 июл 2019
- #DragonBallSuper had a bit of a mixed bag of an arc in the Tournament of Power. It had its moments and captured the essence of #DragonBall fairly well, including the long episode count! However, #Jiren was a very lacklustre antagonist...but it didn't have to be that way. Based on interviews from the show's directors and producers, Haverok and I discuss why Jiren wasn't as popular as Hit and what we can do to fix the character should he ever return. #DragonBallSuperEpisode109
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I actually think Jerin would’ve worked if they did one thing about his personality, give him a backstory like Saitama in One punch man.
Basically the whole time during the tournament while he’s just sitting there he’s just melancholy because to him he knows how this is going to go he’s going to win without needing any kind of effort at all. So when he finally starts to fight Goku it’s exactly has he thought at first, even at his best goku wasn’t doing anything to him. But once he gained ultra instinct suddenly Jerin smile’s and starts actually fighting and putting in effort is even a point in which she starts laughing and it terrifies the other members of his team because they’ve never seen him do that before.
Making him a blank slate could have worked if they made it nearly a product of his power
Nazo- kage
That would be very interesting?
Nazo- kage
Jiren being like that would’ve been _very_ interesting!
DUDE! You're totally unto something! Cool idea
I think that's a cool idea
Jiren vs Saitama. Someone make it happen! I keep hearing Goku vs Saitama a lot, so why not Jiren? Call it "The battle of the bald" im just wanking ya lol
Jiren should be a character that is an extrovert in the beginning naive and trust people very easily. Then he ended up getting abandoned by his peers due to him being weak. So he started to lift and got buffer. But all those training causes him to be isolated for a long time and self reflect alot until he started to not believe in friendship. And all this time training alone he gained alot of focus and learned how to go ultra instinct
He doesn't have UI and that backstory isn't any better
@@DSan-kl2yc a. he's talking about that red aura that kept and semi-defeated ui goku and b. how is that origen any better i'm genuinely curious
@@rossjones8656 A) no he wasn't. He was talking about having UI before the tourney. B) My take was that his fanfiction wasn't better. Whether it's equal or whether his story could be executed better are unknowns. It wasn't. And there's nothing in it that stands out as better. For one the emphasis isn't even on the rejection. It's on him just being alone. So he got anti social from lack of socializing. That's not very dramatic. How would it impact the show, how is it useful to it.
If he got abandoned for being weak, it would make more sense for a story about a misanthrope. But then it wouldn't tie into beating an opponent, or needing strength for the sake of justice. You'd have to redo the arc to reconstitute why he does everything. It's like it stops mattering.
Just say you don't like it. I never see these exercises as useful.
What's his motivation for this new character that totally isn't jiren then. He's sad that he got abandoned even tho there's plenty of places for weak people in that society from what we saw. What's his motivation for strength.
If it's to be accepted than that is just naruto at that point.
It's not to be abandoned because he then abandons people.
So now he's a misanthrope... that's almost harder to deal with than the current motivations where he also doesn't want to rely on people.
You want to reach the same point in a worst way that has less motivation behind it.
@@DSan-kl2yc you made your point but who knows maybe he had that red aura before the tournament but he didn't need it until master ui came onto the scene who knows maybe that isn't ui i don't know but again you made your point
Jiren: *meditates*
Toei: God, you're such a deep character!
The Third Quadrant Fanbase:FIGHT ME
F*** ME!!!!
Piccolo did it first....
Toriyama*
Jiren’s backstory sounds tragic in a way but then we have Vegeta, a prince of an almost extinct race. Now that’s tragic
Yep, now the prince of all 3 Saiyans. Oof
jarnegi 4 full bloods including his own Brother and Broly, 4 half breeds and growing
@@ShadowknightEX 5 half breed. Gohan, Trunks, Goten, Pan, and Bra.
With no female saiyian meaning it a dying species now
Technically speaking there's a thriving race of saiyans in U6
Who needs personality when you can block a final flash, *WITH YOUR EYES*
Think Jiren would have been more interesting if he was actually a bad guy and we knew he has a destructive wish, would have made the ToP arc more tense
I think the same can be achieved just by changing his way of thinking, but keeping his intentions somewhat good kind of like Thanos. His intentions were good, but the way of doing it was wrong.
@@saumyaagrawal2227 absolutely yeah. He could wish for the power of the zenos to erase the race of his mystery family killer or something less to that effect and the tournament climax could have been Jirens epiphany to respect life. I wouldn't have minded him winning the tournament and changing his heart about the wish. Gokus best power of making bad guys turn good coming to light etc.
No. That would have been lame
@@DSan-kl2yc how would you make Jiren interesting?
I disagree. Goku always has a "bad guy" to go up against. I wish Jiren would have been a just a guy trying to save his universe. This could have led to an interesting dialogue between Goku and Jiren as Jiren could really find disgust in Goku's desire to participate in the tournament (and paint Goku to be bad guy...like they hinted at earlier in the series)
I wanted Jiren to be this unstoppable force that forced Goku to question if "fighting strong guys" was worth putting the universes in danger (i know they were going to be destroyed anyway, I would have changed that too, or left it as a twist until the very end)
I feel like they should’ve emphasized the goku and jiren ideological clash, but not make jiren seem so one dimensional and cause goku to realize his hubris and for causing all of this in the first place, sort of like how batman has to discipline new heroes and show them this isn’t a game and not about fun, like this is what happens if a shonen hero goes up against a no nonsense western super hero
Without the power tournament the whole Multiverse would have been canceled by Zeno, I would say that Goku saved the Multiverse, not to mention that as they make very clear at the beginning of the saga that his intent is to win to restore all the universes.
It was not arrogant.
Goku is not a hero, he is an anti hero, he himself says that he fights only for fun and if he saves the world it is only a side effect due to his fighting.
The ideological clash was "Friendship and teamwork" against "Strength and solitude"
AnimeAIHO Zodi
Well let’s be honest Goku didn’t know that the universe was at stake when he went to the genocidal god that destroys planets and universes for fun he was bored and wanted to fight tough guys
The “ideology” clash was the basic Power of friendship makes me powerful and not as interesting as “you literally put everything at stake for a good fight”
We know Vegeta was going to wish everyone back but when asked Goku didn’t know what he was going to wish for (I think in a chat with Ribrean of U2)
When it comes to Superman he has tons of those explorative kinds of stories: Kingdom Come, Injustice, American Alien, All-Star Superman, and his entire New 52 run just to name a few.
Saying that Superman is hard to write for is just admitting that you wanted to lean on tropes rather than the character himself. Most of Superman's biggest foes are dudes that challenge him on an intellectual level as well as physical, be it Lex with his representation of ambition and what it means to humanity, or Darkseid and his ceaseless desire for more and more power. Both of them have ways of challenging Supes to a fist fight if they want, but they're also representations of systems and attitudes that a person who wants to be and do good would come into opposition against.
@@LupineShadowOmega even Doomsday and the newly introduced Rogol Zaar who caused krypton's destruction
Jiren has Batman’s backstory and goku has Superman’s Backstory... coincidence 🧐
Now you will see jiren chasing goku with green rocks
Jiren is what Batman would be if he trade all of his wealth, intellect and Prep time for a pure, unadulterated power
Sooner or later Dragon Ball will turn into the next Justice League.
Hey guys any bets on the next character's backstory is going to be. We got Batman, Superman, and Tarzan so what could be next.
@@ashiel035 well they went with hulk for the broly movie with the abusive father and rage increasing his strength with like two friends
I'd make Jiren a character that has lost everything and hates when people have it all and neglect it, this would clash with Goku as he barely shows love to his friends in the tournament.
Jiren could snap Goku out of his battle craze and realize the consequences that come with it.
That sounds amazing.
@@jrcsmash2150 thanks!!!
Extra points if you combine it with Masako's idea of Jiren's power having been the reason for all that he lost.
Jiren would be a literal warning to Goku of what seeking power just for the sake of power could mean. And having a Jiren that is just disgusted with that idea would give us a reason to agree with him about sitting out the tournament as he does in meditation, a tournament of power is sickening to him. Power is a responsibility, a curse, it shouldn't be praised and especially not without a purpose behind it. Amusement isn't a purpose. its a folly and maybe even an abomination in his eyes. But likewise he has no choice. All the lives of all the people he knows or will ever truly know are on the line.
@@LupineShadowOmega Like Suiryu and Saitama from OPM?
@@the_great_rasputin9022 not sure actually, because Suiryu didn't really care about being strong. He just wanted to have fun and he felt that strength was a path to let him do that.
Meanwhile King sort of points out that Saitama isn't a responsibility hero, he does this because he wants a challenge, but inversely he definitely checks tons of boxes that you want out of your hero.
Responsibility Jiren probably ends up playing more like "What if Superman was Batman." And like that Elseworld we get a more somber and serious Superman that embodies neither the fear that Batman does or the Hope that Superman does, but rather a more middle ground of utilitarianism. He's more a scarred realist than an icon.
They probably could've made Jiren's wish be that he wants to get rid of his abnormal power as it is more of a burden than a asset in Jiren's eyes. Breaking the norm of DB where characters always seek higher levels of strength.
I think that's a great idea. The idea of Jiren feeling the repercussions of his immense strength could be a warning sign for Goku. I feel like Super has been very subtly introducing the concept of Goku becoming too strong for his own good. The first instance is Goku obtaining god powers, which can potentially challenge other gods. The second instance is Zamasu being threatened by Goku's power, and using his own power against him. The third instance is the Tournament of Power, which was initiated by Goku's desire to challenge fighters from other universes. There is also Beerus's successor to think about. Although Goku has clearly stated that he wouldn't want the position, there might come a time where he is forced to. The seeds are there. I hope Super brings this to light and creates a plot point out of it.
Adrian Jr. The Tournament of Power doesn’t really show that concept, though. It could have, until they revealed that Zeno was going to destroy the universes anyways. If anything, it proves the opposite, that Goku becoming so strong is what saved everyone and gave everyone a fighting chance.
@@guylabayen1677not just a warning sign, he would relate to it due the oozaru and grandpa Gohan
Jiren is Batman , Belmod is Joker and Marcarita is Harley Quinn 😅
Nice
*HE. SHOULD. HAVE. STAYED. QUIET.*
Seriously, the worst thing about Jiren was his 180 regarding his silent and overwhelming nature. On top of that, he lost.
I feel like Jiren is a character that is mostly an inversion of his perceived archetype. To the Pride Troopers and his universe he is the “ultimate hero” and the inversion comes in that really, he’s only the “ultimate hero” in terms of strength. He doesn’t have lofty ideals or terribly strong morals and really I think that’s fine. His real persona is someone that is honorable, that enjoys a challenge but that is also laser focused on strength with no time for friends or trust, and thusly looks down on people who do value those things, such as Goku. I feel like he evolved somewhat as a character in the last couple of episodes of Super and became a bit more humanized. He lost confidence in himself after losing to Goku as well as being belittled and ridiculed by Frieza, and ironically it was Toppo’s trust in Jiren’s strength that snapped him out of it.
Yes there were issues with his portrayal and one could argue that his backstory was mundane, but in all honesty his backstory is not terribly important and serves it’s purpose quite fine. This isn’t his story and he’s not meant to be a main character, he’s more of an obstacle because of the situation and not because of his choices. Same as Hit really, he wasn’t a bad guy necessarily and he was only an obstacle because Champa somewhat forced him to be, therefore he didn’t require much delving into. Heck, Hit’s far better received than Jiren yet Hit’s backstory is less fleshed out than Jiren’s.
We know Hit has been alive for a thousand years and has been an assassin for what I assume is a large part of that…and that’s it. Arguably Jiren’s stock standard backstory gives us more insight into him. He was so afraid of losing people again that all he did was seek strength, ironically causing him push away those that might matter to him, i.e the people he was seeking to gain strength for in the first place. I think Jiren is a much more interesting and developed character than people give him credit for and mostly I think people dismiss him because of his somewhat bland backstory.
Jiren in my opinion is a fine character, just very poorly managed. When you think about it, he's the perfect foil for Goku.
- Jiren is this challenge that highlights Goku's natural ability to adapt to impossible odds.
- While Goku loves to fight for it's own sake, Jiren only fights as a means to an end.
- Where Goku is enthusiastic and has made many friends, Jiren is cold and distant.
But they are both the heroes of their respective worlds. This contrast can be milked for all manner of interactions.
At the end of the ToP, you could even see glimmers of the two characters learning something from eachother. I mean, just look at Jiren's Full Power form and Goku's Mastered Ultra Instict. Jiren went from a guy who is calm and meditative into this Rage Powered form (like a Super Saiyan) while Goku's final form is one based on tranquility and an empty mind (like what Jiren displayed early on).
Jiren even ended up *enjoying* his fight with Goku and he went on to connect with Toppo! You wouldn't even need to do much to improve on Jiren, just add this extra context in his future inclusions.
Wish there were more db fans who are as smart as you, well smart in general, lol.
I like the ‘simpleness’ of Dragon Ball, but Toroyama literally didn’t care when he made Jiren...
"I just need a brick wall for Goku...with the personality of a brick wall."
KingShush I highly doubt Toriyama is as involved in Super as the marketing wants us to believe
9:10 Jiren doesn't lead universe 7 into battle he leads universe 11 into battle your further confirming my Yamaha point 😂😂
Good video Masako.
Also, I think a better idea for Jiren is to look at someone named "Katakuri" from One Piece. He's an OP character done right, but he's very engaging and interesting in the story of the whole cake island arc. If you watch the full fight between him and Luffy as well as look a bit into his back story, you can see why he's Jiren could have been.
Red Blueberg
Agreed
An easy way to properly establish Jiren's feelings toward the tournament would have been to have multiple people try and approach him, only for him to turn them all away. And when he's inevitably forced to fight and knock someone out, have him show remorse when their universe gets erased like Gohan did. Make it clear that Jiren doesn't want to be there, and use subtext to explain why.
Personally, I'd rather just forget about universe 11 for a while.
What I want is character development (Goku acknowledging his Saiyan past more, Bulma/Chi-Chi dealing with aging faster than their husbands, Vegeta dealing with Freeza's return, Vegeta dealing with trying to become a good father, Gohan becoming a fighter again, Goten/Trunks aging, Piccolo becoming relevant again, etc), more Broly, more Universe 6 & 7 crossover, Cooler, and back stories from past characters (like Bardock/Gine/Raditz/King Vegeta) and maybe a 24 hour return for them movie. There's no time for Jiren in my book... After all, Broly serves the same purpose.
Isn't it implied that Bulma has used the Dragon Balls at least once to make herself younger?
At any rate, I'd like it if they actually took Super to the point of the DBZ epilogue and beyond. I think it was a mistake in the first place for Super to be set in between the defeat of Buu and the epilogue.
I think Jiren was meant to be dull, though. He feels like a response to people who complain about how silly Goku is, how he doesn't really take anything serious, as well as people upset about all the transformations.
It feels like Toriyama just went "Alright, you want a Goku without all that? Here's Jiren. Takes everything seriously, is no fun, and has no transformations." Then everyone called him boring, missing the point entirely.
And besides, he'll probably gain more personality as he interacts with Goku. Tien was pretty bland at first too.
That's fair. I mean, a poorly written character isn't really okay, especially if it's at the expense of a climatic antagonist, but it's a fair comparison.
Timed Revolver
That’s fair.
This video makes me wish they could go back in time and redo jiren's character with the ideas you were talking about
What would you have done differently if you don't mind me asking?
Love your videos dude, thank you
The only one who could actually take on El Hermano is Gohan Blanco himself. Truly, he is the antagonist we deserve.
MUI Goku may have not have defeated Jiren before having Frieza helped him, but he did the next best thing...
TURNED JIREN INTO MAGIC MIKE!!!!
That’s hot
MasakoX: "These icons can't be changed too much".
Captain America: "Hail Hydra!"
Judging from the thumbnail and video pic, I’d say the first thing to fix is to have Jiren voiced by Steve Buscemi.
Pio Nepomuceno damn. It makes sense.
El... El hermano? Isn't that Dragonball X?
That is my head canon. Because it *infinitely* makes Jiren more interesting.
Masako your content is 'super'
No pun intended
I don't believe you but nice pun 😂😉
7:20 that pic of hit somehow lines up perfectly with the cabinet in the background
That was easily your funniest intro yet.
Make him unable to fly. That would make him an actual person who has to deal with a flaw. Seeing other people make extremely effective use of a very common ability he doesn’t even have. It would make for a great joke and give another angle to look at Jiren from.
That's a really good idea.
Jirem isn't bad. His backstory is just all at the end. The important part isn't a flashback but his attitude and his character does change as he ends with having to reexamine his views
Where's El Hermano when you need him
Because he's an interesting charac......HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH sorry I couldn't keep a straight face.
KasaiWolf07 8u8uu88 8u yup u ubiquitous8 u88 yup
KasaiWolf07 u 8 8888yup Inuit u88
Was this suppose to be funny?
mr Wilson lemme guess your a Jiren fanboy?
@@hightidekraken No I'm a hit fanboy, but People think a story of a character past makes them better. Look at how soft broly is.
3:12 thnx for that mate..wasn't planning to sleep anyway tonight
A possible way that could have made Jiren's story interesting with both the main personality they gave us while also adding Masako's idea:
Jiren's village gets masacred. so he trains, and makes more allies to get revenge. and he gets it. but in the process ended up destroyig his allies with his own powers. that this makes Jiren think "eveyrthing ends". that only the strongest get to live. that he values live in a sense of "fascination of how are the weak able to value life?" and that "he is kinda jealous of the inner strength people have to make bonds despite the futility of making them". that he joines the Pride Troopers in part to learn fo that and also feel identified with those wanting to grow strong. HOWEVER always keeping his distance because "Everything ends".
AND THEN at the end when his fight with Goku makes him realize he isn't the strongest, then he changes his wish from "bringing hismaster back to life" to "end everthing and erase everything and everyone, the Zenos, himself, EVERYONE", which would have gave that dramatic tension (and make it ironic when it is revealed the Zenos were planning to erase anything if somebody asked for a selfish wish).
THAT could make Jiren appreciate life more hen he is brought back, and think that "maybe i can finally have the strength the weak have to make bonds despite that everything ends"
Hot take: Despite his flaws, I still love Jiren to this day. One of my favorite characters.
9:05 Guess Funimation's slip up with hit of Universe 11 is now affecting Jiren of Universe 7
Hey, Masako, your videos have given me a lot of ideas to make super more interesting, and I'd love to share them with you, but I don't know how, or if they're even that original
I think he was a character that was made to show goku what he would become if he kept going at his goal The was he is right now
He is
I miss all the Gohan Blanco theories and jokes
I think there was meant to be a "Show and not tell" aspect to Jirens charecter that I think worked, up until his backstory was revealed. When Jirens mystery disappeared, the gravity of his presence did aswell and that just made him forgettable instead of formidable.
Jiren as a character is literally filler. Boring backstory, obstacle that takes more episodes, archetypical shounen big bad personality, and so on.
Toguro without the depth?
Character really doesn't matter.
Agreed
Maybe but he's not a big bad. He's a good guy.
That's what happens when you take a cool character with potential and give it to writers who can't write a good plot or character development to save their lives
Jiren: Cool design but meh execution
Can someone audio capture Masako saying 'make him a beefcake' lmao
Id love to see Jiren handled better. I love his design and moves that he uses are fantastic. Hopefully in the future we do get more from him and what not.
I know a lot of people hate his design, but IMO the simplicity of it (just a "grey alien", except tall and ripped) was perfect. If only the same were true of the rest of how he was handled.
You need to be in the Dragon Ball Room Masako.
Really like the thumbnail
I don't know why no 1 ever acknowledges Jiren's persona in the manga.
All the prospect of what made Jiren wasn't just him being over powered but the idea of Goku actually facing a genuinely good guy in arc what could have been a grey & grey arc.
And yet, at the end of the day the vast majority of the new characters in the TOP were just one noted.
Jiren doesnt need to be fixed.
He just needs to be Hakai'd
I'd LOVE if throughout the second era of Super, we get a subtle entrance of Frieza going 'good' to get the ire of Beerus, and when he disrespects Frieza in front of the Z gang, Broly's family, Whis. he'll TELL the entire group that Beerus gave the ok to blow up Planet Vegeta! Chi Chi, Bulma, and Videl explain it to those who don't know, asTrunks/Goten/Gohan/Broly/Vegeta/Goku take positions around Beerus. JUST as it hits him just what happened, we get SSB over ascended Gohan! the RETURN of Ultra Instinct Goku, Vegeta going Offensive UI over Royal and we get PURPLE aura UI Vegeta, AND SSB Broly and the final scene before a 8-9 month break is Whis's "I warned you about not telling the truth, AND warned you about THIS"
I love how the automatic subtitles call MasakoX "massacre X".
You've only noticed that mow? Ever since I saw Jiren, I thought of the grey aliens
Now that we’ve got the backstory out of the way and ended his arc on a note of trying to connect with people, the best thing to do would be to start playing Jiren for comedy. Like, he’s this stoic, self-serious type with the strength of a god trying to befriend people for the first time in his life. What does that look like? I’m picturing something like him playing baseball and having to awkwardly apologise after hitting the ball into the sun. Just cute moments like that now he’s not a main villain could go a long way to making him likeable.
I may be inclined to ramble myself out of existence on this topic, but you seem to want my input on this.
What I was hoping for Jiren was that he would be a genuinely reputable character worn down by monotony and ingratitude into disillusionment with his original ideals (boredom being the ultimate problem of life.) What we got was a coward falsely held up as a hero, his only redeeming attribute being that he got the job done.
Instead of a traumatized childhood, Jiren could have been a classic Tokusentai personality who was betrayed by his comrades, betrayed by the people he protected, and witnessed the same ugly scene Goku did on Namek when had to put Frieza down: a villain who continues to be evil even after being shown mercy.
The exact means don't matter. But one way or another, Jiren would lose his enthusiasm, justice being reduced to little more than hollow determination in face of evil that cannot be uprooted.
Goku isn't weighed down by these things and thus would instantly strike a contrast to Jiren and inspire both resentment, envy, and admiration. Jiren sees in Goku's attitude a reflection of old carefree ways where he never even had to think about what justice meant. But initially, this would represent a threat to the new paradigm Jiren's life has taken and so outwardly he would appear very stern, like a teacher who past regrets from his own youth insinuate themselves into the way he scolds his students, leading him to reprimand them harder than he would have intended in a more rational frame of mind.
Despite what it's doing to him, Jiren has largely accepted that he has lost his purpose in life because he believes it keeps him from being cheated by false hope.
Goku's resolution to protect his universe would continue to challenge Jiren's resolve. He would meditate away from the fighting as a statement of his conviction that Goku's naive struggling would fail, only for him to awaken to 兆し a second time.
Once only Universes 7 and 11 remained, Jiren would become increasingly angry and emotional rather than despondent. His big spiel about power and the denial of all other ideals would be an exaggeration that Toppo, a loyal friend of Jiren's who been trying to get to him to see the light for years, would say is a lie. He knows that Jiren doesn't really beileve that and has simply lost his way.
With the final battle upon them and 完全 whooping his ass, the pettiness of Jiren's desire to protect himself from disappointment would make itself known and finally be expunged.
When Goku gets up after being overpowered by 熱き究極戦士 Jiren's frustration would reach a fever pitch and he would demand to know why Goku keeps on fighting no matter how hopeless things become. To this Goku would say something like, "I never thought of myself as a hero. I just help people who are in need." Which is more or less what he does say, but it in a different context.
When Jiren is down for the count, he's left in a very confused state; unmoored in the empty psychological space between his old justice and his nihilism. He tires to keep fighting but is too hesitating and unfocused. 18 and Frieza work together to bring him to his knees.
Frieza does his thing, tormenting Jiren and asking if he has anything to say for himself in broken state before the end. Jiren expresses only that he is ashamed of himself and that compared to a wonderful universe like the one that must have produced Goku, his deserves to disappear. He apologizes to Toppo, Belmod, and all the people he was sworn to protect, choosing to spend his final moments in the justice pose he once assumed.
Toppo tells Jiren he's being a dumbass and that Universe 11 has always been behind him and they'd all make their super cheesy tokusentai poses as Jiren's aura reignites.
Frieza and 18 can't beileve they're being overpowered by this asshole *again* and are disturbed to see an irrepressible smile on his face as he sheds all doubts and enjoys the fight.
Just when it's about to end for twentieth time in the past thirty seconds, Goku rejoins the battle and Jiren almost weeps for joy to see him standing.
The rest plays out virtually the same as you remember, but with a more contented Jiren who isn't afraid to laugh and be silly and Pride Troopers who feel like they can go out on a high note because their leader has finally found himself again. Goku, having dimly overheard Jiren's earlier remarks, doesn't just offer his respect for Jiren but says he'll remember him as a friend, which just cuts up Jiren even further. "Dear God -- just erase me already!"
You'll notice that as the arc wore on, my corrections became increasingly subtle and contextual because the fundamental theme of the Tournament of Power Arc -- that power as an ideal is illusory -- is a very good one but just isn't communicated as well as it could be.
I agree that the main problem is Jiren's backstory and the vagueness of Toriyama's instructions leading to inflexibility. Although I'll add that it's more likely down to respect for Toriyama rather than apathy that writers didn't work beyond the material in order to do better.
It wouldn't require anything complicated.
If I could sum up the Jiren in my head, he'd be like All Might from My Hero Academia, only he never met Deku (The Deku analog in this case being Goku) and instead of losing sight of his ideals because of his growing impotence, he'd be frustrated by the ultimate futility of trying to suppress evil when it just keeps coming back and finding fresh ways to undermine his faith in humanity.
If we could go back and give Toei a half dozen extra episodes to develop Jiren's connection to the Pride Troopers, we might not be here talking about how Jiren needs to be fixed. Even as he is, he's really not that bad -- and I'm not just saying that just for reasons that people in know will be aware of. The more I think back on the guy, the more I'm proud for the creators, even if the character is still flawed.
As long as Jiren starts posing alongside Top while Dyspo stares at them, I'll be happy.
I think that would be great. Personally I think what we got in the Tournament was a good starting point, I like Jiren. So what we need now is follow up appearances where he comes out of his shell and really tries to be friends with the other pride troopers.
@@johnherb4243 I just want to hear Jiren shout "JUSTICE DAB!" while striking a JoJo pose, if I'm being honest.
Wow, between 10:28 and 10:35 Masako gives us a better back story for Jiren than the DBS team did. Took them almost a year took Masako roughly eight seconds. Dude you have a real talent.
hey Masako great video , when do you think DBS will "redebute"
Masako love the content. Ive ben meaning to ask if you can cover the dragon ball infinite fan manga./also jiren is yamcha in a mask hes giving Goku what he deserves after ignoring him and not inviting him to the tournament
This would be a perfect side special
They should double down on the Batman similarities. Just straight up make him BatJiren, backstory and all. Then Goku can give him that superman speech he used on Namek.
oh man I feel bad for the writer they tried but then Toriyama was like "nah, here's how he works"
it really is a shame
Like George Lucas, Toriyama screws himself over.
The whole writing rule of “Show don’t Tell”, is really starting to show how it’s being outright ignored or forgotten from these writing teams now a days. As well as the work of subtlety.....
they could possibly do what they did with trunks' special episode history of trunks but with jiren so we could know more about where he came from and what has happened in detail
I actually think Jiren could be an interesting character, and I'm sure he would have been if they hadn't rushed the tournament... I honestly want to see how he changed after meeting Goku, and also Hit too. Maybe a multi universe charactet adventure? Maybe taking place in one of the universes that weren't involved in the tournament of power..
"SUPERMAN WOULDN'T DO THAT"
*Flashback to the injustice storyline, one of the greatest DC stories in the comics*
4:08 EL HERMANO
That intro was disrespectful but accurate
Could you do a video on the nimbus or the power pole?
A strong silent type who's stoic and steadfast. That type of character evokes mystery so to find out he had a painful past was the right way to go but it needed to be better so Jiren could have been someone who achieved his height of power by the sacrifice he himself made but isn't burdened by it.
He is what Goku aimed to be and is surrounded by the people who helped him get as far as he did so Jiren is opposite as the man that is in company with others who hold him back and one among them (Toppo) is a contingency aka the next G.O.D
I'm gonna start sending Superman and Captain America comics to Masako lol
I'm going to try and take a stab at making Jiren a more subversive character. But I feel like the problem squares on his design. So visually, I'd change it. I'd make him look younger, maybe scrawny. And retain the "tough guy, takes things way too seriously" personality. He's proud of his power. But no one sees it. They think he's just a weak kid. He thinks the rest of the Pride Troopers hold him back. (I'd also make their costumes a little more varied) But it changes when he gets into a fight, where he's allowed to let loose - he's a force of nature, he's unrelenting strength, and he can decimate most the fighters with a single punch if he wanted. He's always teetering on the edge of having way too much fun in a fight and getting a little too carried away. Goku instantly takes a shine to him. And Jiren? An alien with overwhelming strength and little direction in life, well he relates to Goku. He doesn't feel alone anymore. But the looming tragedy is that at the end of the day, these two will have to go against one another. And only one will be left standing.
Honestly, Jiren could've been used as sort of a realm of possibility for Goku as a fighter. Jiren could've said that no one gave him a challenge anymore, let alone keep him invested in fighting against injustice. There's no fun in it.
Seriously. Make him a Saitama that's at least serious
People search for "Goku Jiren fight rock the dragon", dudes that sequence with that song is freakin' awesome.
hey masakox i just wanted to say I'm a big fan and that i really think u should look a dragon ball after by young jiji it's an amazing fan manga that could be one of the best dragon ball movies he really does deserve a lot of recognition because it's amazing basically it takes place after the end of z and after sparing with Uub, Goku takes a devastating hit to the back of the neck witch basically causes him to become evil very under simplified summarization of the first few pages like if you guys agree
I think your idea for Jiren would work but I would also like it if Gohan would be the one to beat Jiren mainly because after the Future Trunks arc in Super I felt like Goku’s story should end
The end of super does kind of imply he opens up.
kinda wish that original idea for jiren stuck(would love for toppo to still be there.) as along with a weak backstory(could easily make the "demon" demigra or a true fallen angel.) i feel he was forced to be an antagonist for goku when he wasn't really that rootable outside ultra instinct and felt broken with his power compared to hit(like to see him mellowed out interacting with the troopers just don't want him to be goku's new rival,just keep it to vegeta/at times hit or even broly.).
i think if we got a bit of his life/a preview of his goal like the manga and instead of telling show jiren getting excited seeing a challenge(like saitama or katakuri/kaido.:3) outside his universe but get burdened by his taught ideals towards fighting and keeping his team from falling that it messes with him(with the pride troopers giving a visual look to his struggling spectrum and trying to reach him.).
My favourite extra of the TOP is maji Kayo
I know this is off topic but you should do, What if Gohan Never Went Super Saiyan In The Cell Saga.
Tbh I think if I were to write Jiren, I would have scrapped the Backstory all together and just made the Pride Troopers outside of Dsypo and Toppo uncomfortable around him. Only working alone. Not in a Gritty or Edgy Sense, but like in a full lack of understanding about what Teamwork or Friendship is kinda way. “Why would we all fight this one monster that Toppo or myself could handle when we could all fight 10 different monsters in 10 different regions that better cater to our powers?” Line of thinking.
Make him literally Alien to everyone, then like you said, have him after fighting Goku and seeing the power of teamwork and friendship and start slowly becoming their friends and bring the troopers together that way.
I want a let's fix Jiren episode
would rather wanna remake him, new design, new backstory, new everything as litorly everything about him screams *B L A N D*
I just don’t understand why Jiren stood by while the Pride troopers get eliminated, even if he disagreed with the tournament, he should of still saved his teammates.
His whole sense of "justice" was screwed up. And not in a good writing sort of way.
Because in his eyes it didn't matter. They were eliminated sure, but he wasn't going to be eliminated, so its arrogance.
He didn't have friends. And he doesn't need anyone. And he would.have been right If Goku didn't tap into UI
He's not the type of person that bonds with people.
I particularly loved the Goku Black / Zamasu ark because of its extremely bleak ending. I mean, an entire universe got vaporized with only a handful of its inhabitants surviving. Because of the way it was done, people often miss the weight behind that. It is such a mind-#@* if you think about it.
Mainly the issue is that in Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z a whole arc was dedicated to build and develop the villains. Jiren was just there, he's more akin to the movie villains that have to be there just because drama.
Granted I see what you mean, but I have to disagree, you mentioned that they had to come up with a huge number of fighters, maybe they didn't have enough time to plan out jirens character because of the many side characters that had to be made. I do have faith they will give jiren his due for a some well earned character development
Me too, I'm staying optimistic.
Notification gang
Did I see a different version of the Universe 6 Arc? I don't remember Monaka actually fighting. Is the English dub different than the Japanese dub.
Haven't seen the English dub, but I think you may have blinked. Monaka stumbles onto the stage and throws one punch. He and Hit look at each other awkwardly for a second, then Hit flies backwards, pretending the be punched out of the ring.
@@MercenaryTau Nice youtube handle, btw.... I've only ever seen the Japanese dub, and yes, I did blink. Lol, I remember now. Hit did that cuz Champa was being a gigantic douchebag?
I love that at one point during the final fight jiren made the smuggest face ever to exist
I haven't been able to see super yet the DVDs cost a lot and I'm very broke. But couldn't they have shown how jiren is all heroic by having stray energy blasts go towards the crowd and have jiren block it like as Vegeta is fighting his opponent shoots at Bulma to distract Vegeta but jiren blocks it. Or just make him be as close to Superman as you can even get his blasts to come out of his eyes maybe add a cape and then we have Goku vs Superman with Goku winning.
This will start a new what if: What If Jiren was better.
"Everyone has a favorite competitor from the Tournament of Power" SORREL!!!
Jiren IMO would be much more interesting IF they had made him a Thanos (and i've been telling that before the end of the ToP) ...he has seen so much destruction that becoming a G.O.D is pointless...he is just not a murderer so he thinks having such a wish be done by someone else would be the "best" solution.....and bizarrely this would be a wish that even the GP would agree AND Zeno ...since its been told several times in the arc that the universes are too many...there is nothing better IMO than a "villain" who has a point that even his "betters" agree with that bad guy
Vegeta the demanding teacher, Vegeta the stern protector, Vegeta the grumpy positive influence.
One would never have expected that back when I was still a teen.
If you’ve seen JL, JL unlimited they do give Superman flaws like bursts of anger his relationships with darkseid and Luther and the cadmus situation he also doesn’t always know what to do and asks for help
but they don’t stray into him being the villain
To be fair, if you go back and watch the 1 hour special, it really seems like they originally had more planned for Jiren.
i dont know man im trying to understand your reasons but i like his personality and how little he talked. felt natural to his personality. and he did go through some development with accepting friendship from toppo and wanting to see goku again right?
Jiren watching the video:
WHATS WRONG??!
If I could write jiren's character I would make him a sort of dark reflection of goku. Not in terms of backstory but more in terms of motivation. I would make him love fighting like goku but have him secretly not truely care about people. For example I would write it so he became a pride trooper mainly to try to fight stronger people and didn't really care about those he saved. I think it would make him more sadistic and twisted. And i also think it could serve as a wake up call for goku by showing him what he could become if he wasn't careful.
Prince Boyd maybe this is where we should have got goku black. Not necessarily zamasu (though that could be interesting maybe)but straight up sadistic parallel goku?