So i completely buggered up and said elephant in the video when i meant mammoth. But the elephant was a pretty useless contraption in halo wars as well.
@@commentator4515 Yes PLEASE! I wanna see that too! The Chinese Phoenix (TRO) in particular stands out because you see V-Thruster exhaust coming from the pods for the Rocket Bombs... Why would you put weapons on the same place you put thrusters? How do you move while aiming (or aim while moving)? The ISDF Attilla stands incredibly tall only for them to put the cockpit back down near the feet and the weapons even lower than that so you made the vehicle incredibly tall and then sacrificed the vantage point granted by said height, especially when compared to the NSDF Sasquatch.
12:14 The lore behind the chopper is actually kind of funny. When the Covenant first encountered Humanity, an engineer tried to recreate the tractors they saw on Harvest as a peace offering. Tartarus took one look at it and started hyperventilating.
@@atankersviewhave you ever seen “Valkyrie Chronicles?” They’ve got a lot of tank designs from the surprisingly mundane to the whacked. They had a crossover with WoT a while ago and they’re also a feature of some AMV Sabaton songs
In universe though humanity got stagnate during the golden era of colonisation When the insurrection happened they devoted their ground forces to COIN ops so they had to relearn how to fight But that still is doesn't explain why they went with style over substance for the rifles, their VK commando is rediculous our current AR 15 in 6.5 can carry double that.
The Chopper was a agricultural tractor and the Scarab is a mining drill with bolted on armor and guns. I don't think the Covenant had a design bureau and just slapped together stuff till it didn't explode
The covenant literally doesn’t have a design beauro, they GROW these things in forerunner assembly forges they only partially understand. The tiny cruiser from halo 4 is canonically one of those bigger cruisers from the other games that some elite punched in the wrong numbers for so instead of producing a few dozen large cruisers it produced a few hundred tiny ones.
The warthog had an interesting history since originally it was just a humvee before the changes but in lore there was some armored variants but for the most part standard warthogs did have armor they can add but it just couldn't survive plasma fire and heavy but you should definitely check out some of the Fallout vehicles
As far as I’m aware Warthogs can take a decent amount of plasma fire. Obviously not sustained plasma fire and the wheels would be quite vulnerable. However the philosophy of the Warthog besides being a scout vehicle is a vehicle designed to rapidly deploy troopers or go hit and run attacks. Imagine a jeep flying in and laying off a couple volleys of rockets or even a couple Guass Canon shots before dipping and before your troopers can get a shot at it it’s gone. Only for another Warthog to show up and do the same.
My assumption is that, for gameplay reasons (and lack of better ideas), vehicle crews had to be somewhat exposed and their weapons impractical enough that they didn't end a game in half a second from being fired. And at least we get a good laugh out of them!
Funny. Here's the actual design process: can we shoot the driver/pilot in multiplayer? Yes? Design approved! The only exceptions are the Wraith and Banshee--because Covenant vehicles were designed to be destructible in Halo Combat Evolved whereas UNSC vehicles weren't. Again, the reason why the vehicles are so iconic and so badly designed from the real world perspective is because they are designed to make sure the driver/pilot can DIE.
Personally I think you should check out the vehicles in Gears of War because id love to see you tear those things apart mainly the WWE monster truck that has a tank cannon mounted on the top of it.
Its almost as if Bungie is was a legendary developer capable of making perfect gameplay by not giving a shit about how "real" something is. 343 then thought it had to look more realistic….
To be fair, the UNSC could only use what was carried aboard the Pillar of Autumn in Halo: CE. Afterwards, all I could think of is Bungie's developers just didn't know anything about military application.
Even then the Pillar of Autumn is a large ship around the size of a small city. They could carry more than what Bungie's numbers were. And that's without addressing the scaling issue of the series. Also yes they apparently don't have a clue about how militaries operate . But the real problem here is the vehicles design more than just numbers of vehicles.
The main reason why UNSC vehicles are the way they are because they draw alot of inspirations from WWII and Vietnam. Outdated and don't provide alot of cover(If any). Also the Rule of Cool. Also the Prophet of Drip is insanely accurate to the lore.
While it was kinda dumb for the UNSC to deploy a lot of Mongooses and Warthogs during the Battle of Reach usually the Warthog is a great hit and run vehicle. And the Mongoose with a SPNKR Marine on the back turns the vehicle into a mobile missile launcher. Or is great for transporting 2 Spartans very quickly.
Honestly Halo’s vehicles can make some sense of you consider the fact that the marines are meant for planetary invasions basically. Meaning their ships have to carry as much equipment as possible to stage a planetary invasion. So one something like the warthog while not very well armored is light and as a result is easy to transport a good amount of them and deploy them on planet. I cannot have the same defense for the UNSC Army.
Here are my thoughts on Halo's vehicles that don't mean anything: Warthog: When I first played the Halo CE remake and saw the warthog, I thought the UNSC was losing the war so badly that they were taking whatever vehicle they could find and putting a gun on it. Scorpion: I like the one from Halo 5. Mongoose: I always disliked it. Mammoth: I like the look of it. It would be much better if it was smaller and acted more like an IFV. Ghost: Why isn't the cockpit shielded like how the Halo 5's grunt goblin is? Spectre: Everyone forgets the spectre; it's that Covenant Warthog. Revenant: Why is it a two-seater? You only need one. Wraith: The anti-air wraith is batter. Scarab: You should only be able to kill it from the inside, like how it is in Halo 2. Brute chopper: In the lore, the chopper was meant to be a farming tool, but brutes put some guns on it
The Elites in the lore have a honor based system where they actually want to be seen in combat and depending on the vehicle wanted to stick out. Also in Halo Wars all Covenant vehicles had shields including the Chopper and Ghost.
@@PackHunter117 That would be fine if the Elites were the ones using ghosts in combat the most, but most of the time, it's the grunts, so why not put a hardened shield around the cockpit? I also find it odd that the banished doesn't cover the cockpit of the ghost; the banished doesn't have honour system. About Covenant's vehicles having shields in Halo Wars isn't Connon. Tho,the banshee might have shields, or just be the heretic banshee. There is a scene where a heretic banshee is being shot at, and it looks like it has shields; this is in the remake of Halo 2.
@@Gotnothingatall 343 should being the mastodon over to the next or even DLC for infinite, it should be like the razorback but it could hold more marines, just think if all the marines had sentinel beams how mach fun would it be
I love the series but youre not telling any lies. Especially with the Warthog. If I hit an incline going too slow OR too fast, my warthog becomes a varsity cheerleader doing all sorts of flips BUTT she doesnt stick the landing and brings the whole pyramid down with her....
The warthogs okay I guess as a realistic vehicle, but apart from its massively exposed windscreen and lack of armor protection as well as doors it’s pretty useless.
There is a sci fi series I just found out about that has a huge abundant amounts of tanks and mechs which are mass produced in mere minutes and make entire battlefields look like war worlds within an hour. Mechs, tanks, aircraft, ships, production facilities, artillery, anti air defenses, tactical nukes, installations, fielded energy shields all produced in mere minutes and set immediately to the conflict. It's called the Supcom verse. A series of strageic games. The engagements can become so intensely chaotic even to Astartes and the Imperial Guard of Warhammer 40k this is to overwhelming. Ai send out waves of waves of enemies to attack your base throwing nukes, bombers, interceptors, and legions of mechs and tanks which constantly get more advance as the engagement draws out. There are tanks and mechs that could rival that of the arsenals from the Bolo Series. Even the Bolo Mk.33. I am serious. If you want to check out how crazy the battles can become just watch some ai vs ai battle videos of Supreme Commander Forged Alliance. You will see what I am talking about.
@@atankersview Supreme Commander is a series which would make for some good tank reviews. This game's verse is so intense and so rapid in it's development of shipyards, factories, and refineries it's almost impossible for the Imperium of Man to keep up with that even with Emperor class Titans which Supcom can produce mechs and tanks that can rival and surpass event the firepower of those. Imagine producing that kind of firepower in mere seconds. Matter conversion is just op. Their tanks and mechs can even have shield generators just like the Bolo Mk.33 does.
*The UNSC also DO HAVE APCs. One is the M88 Bison and the other is the M650 Mastodon. The reason why Warthogs are seen more is because the Warthog is because in lore the Warthog is a fantastic scout vehicle and is a very easy vehicle for Marines and Army Troopers to learn to drive plus it can be outfitted and changed relatively quickly.*
The hog; yeah it is a total slave to the rule of cool. The scorp; I've seen that video already yeah, spookston was very compelling. The ghost; the sangheili perfer it open seat to prove they are more balsey than you, its handling characteristics are in 100% the prophet's doing though. The revenant; see ghost but with bigger gun, bonus passenger space. Wraith; yeah you're on point there. The chopper; who'd guess a design intended originally to be a tractor would make for a dubiously useful combat vehicle?
So for me, I feel like the warthog and mongoose are supposed to be scout vehicles, meaning to be in and out fast after a scout mission. the tank feels like it is supposed to be like that because designed that way because of terrain issues and to be better cover when destroyed. Mammoth is supposed to be a mobile base/the answer to the Scarab due to the rail gun, and rockets. Also given that the human covenant war was slowly starting, a lot more resources/money got sourced to inner planetary/outterplanetary defenses/offense, so that's probably why marine vehicles are the way they are.
the hog in the lore actually has variants with increased armor, the game hog may be the result of the covenant war, its cut down armor is the result of sticky plasma and material losses, being able to get out quick if you or the truck gets tagged was handy. plasma also seems to play hell with electronics (anyone whos ever popped a vehicle with an over charged plasma pistol prior to climbing aboard to give the pilot the good news knows what im talking about.) it could be the manual open topped design IS a response to the war they're fighting. the hogs ballistic plating was doing sweet bugger all against the bulk of covenant weaponry, and marines were reporting being able to get the hell out in a hurry when gator face stitched a line of blue balls up the hood or god forbid tagged the gunner as more useful. pretty sure the hog in contact harvest resembles the ones from the games but is also the equivalent of something you might find in a national guard reserve motor pool. the guns manual because the stupid RC system cooks as soon as the first unggoy so much as glances at it. the doors are gone because they were proving more of an impediment to bailing out than they were providing protection. as for the hogs tendancy to roll, spartans weigh something like a half a ton each, so thats up to a ton and a half of weight the hog wasn't designed for sitting and or standing on top of it. the one exception game is odst and those dudes are built different. they happily throw themselves at a planet in a metal box made by the lowest bidder, taking a couple corners to fast or mis judging a drop shouldn't be surprising. i always had the impression that the mongoose was supposed to be a courier vehicle, like it was never meant for combat its just the unsc pressing anything that'll run into service. (see reach and the repeated acquisition of whats probably someones farm truck for use as improvised warthog.) the mammoth has no excuse to be what and where it is. i mean in theory its an interesting platform but it shouldnt be spearheading an op. the mammoth as designed sings enormous self propelled artillery. (which to be fair, is what it gets used for, the problem is the complete lack of aerospace cover or forward recon, (which i suspect if not for game restrictions and narrative you could have corrected some. the hogs are recon and spotting vehicles, the mammoth in theory has its own security picket aboard and on appropriate ground provides the unsc with a solution to the covenants worm colonys masquerading as over sized cockroaches. del rio was just horribly misusing his. infinity could have supported it prroperly, del rio chose not too.
i like how the warthog is by the settings own lore supposed to be a recon vehicle and since its so iconic is just used as their main fighting vehicle being especially silly with tip of the spear in reach where they are used by the army in a direct head on assault on a fortified covenant position what makes it completely insane is is there are dudes on mongooses alongside them with a guy with a assault rifle on the back despite be an advanced galactic military force the UNSC get their entire battle strategy from the Chad Toyota war and gang drivebys but even they had vehicles that had the driver covered
I've been saying this for ages. If it was actually USED AS A LIGHT RECON VEHICLE or by SOF units, then the Warthog would be a great vehicle. But the UNSC just builds a hundred of them and tells the drivers to charge right in to an enemy force of a thousand. It's just so frustrating the lack of any common sense from the writers is what gets me.
@@spookypepper6900 I think by the time of the battle of reach the Warthog was basically the only thing the UNSC had other than the Scorpion. All of the APC, IFV or armoured car that normally filled the niches in between the Warthog and Scorpion had been long since withdrawn when they proved no more survivable against the covenant weaponry and less cost efficient. The scorpion was likely the lightest vehicle that can survive direct concentrated covenant weapon fire, whilst being the heaviest vehicle that was still strategically, operationally and tactically mobile
In early Halo games, the Wraith's gunner wasn't exposed. I believe the separate gunner was added because the player couldn't use the autoguns added in Halo 2 since the secondary button was already used for the Wraith's booster. It is my theory, I haven't confirmed this, that the Warthog is open topped to make it easier to design a fast animation for when a character gets in and out of it.
I understand your POV we do have to acknowledge one fact, The U.N.S.C. didn't started with great vehicles becouse, nobody had a military branch in the first place. It was all purely meant for colonialing planets, not military, that is until insurrectionist war came that is when they started. I do beloieve the mongoose was use for scouting in human wars but in "Halo 3 and reach", pretty sure they use in act of desperation hench fourth, it looked dumb... still an opinion is opinion, just saying. I do get what your saying both side of vehicles designs are dumd and has no common sence, of protecting their user from being in danger.
You missed the most sensible piece of gear ever devised, the shade turret (type 26, bar the heavy ig, and type 55) literally blowing bubbles and then suspending them in a live battlefield for masterchief to pop. Also the only non floating floating vehicle, I love halo but why on earth can the ghost almost fly with its boost but the shade can’t even hover without the base?!
Honestly, if you assume that the Warthog is literally the equivalent of an Interstellar Age Technical that the UNSC Marine Corps and Army had at least two depots worlds filled with thanks to their common role pre-Insurrection being patrolling the less developed areas of the colony worlds, then that makes some more sense. Especially when you factor in that they probably inherited a colossal quantity of 'warfighting equipment' (which is closer to Law Enforcement grade) when the Colonial Military Authority got disbanded for being either A) Insurrectionists, B) Petty Tyrants creating Insurrectionists or C) So corrupt that the Petty Tyrants were more beneficial to the destruction of the Insurrection. In simpler words? It is in fact the Interstellar Hilux, and they're using that because they've got so many Warthogs remaining that they aren't going to run out soon. Especially if the Warthog is cheaper to build replacements for than APCs, IFVs and MRAPs, less likely to be destroyed due to how 'agile' they are (especially when the armour packages are stripped to make them lighter) when hit by Covenant plasma and that until the more developed Inner Colonies got hit, were the 'combat' vehicles likely to be on hand because of industrial limitations, the usage situation for the colony in question and a bunch of other things. Of course, this doesn't mean the Warthog is any less of a bad idea. Just that you can definitely find reasonings behind why it's used that go beyond completely incompetent and utterly corrupt. Not saying those two reasons aren't included, just that there's more than them.
Maybe some excuses (I made up) for the warthog could be: - it's designed to work in environments with no roads, so maximizing offroad capabilities. - To keep it light for offroading, no armor. - To have it very cheap, mass-producable and operable with minimal training, it has just a manual turret and no extra crap. One use I could think for them is raiding missions, like those SAS troops did to German airfields in africa (ww2). But having it be the main vehicle and using it in assault and combat roles, is not a good idea.
People makes fun of the imperium because of "muh WW2 vehicles in SPACE" but as he pointed out a lot of them are competently designed for the most part like the land raider not to mention that orks, eldar and the few chaos vehicles that aren't just repurposed imperial vehicles can be excused since the former literally works only because they think it does therefore it does because WAAAGH magic that's why, eldar literally construct their vehicles out of solidified warp stuff a.k.a magic and the latter literally because of satanic magic being involved or outright needed to construct them
before i watch: mongoose: is fine. scorpion: should be small because every kg in space is exponentially more money and costs more fuel to move that object, so a main battle tank being small is not abnormal because of that. . . .everything else i agree with. pelican: should not be airiodynamic as it is an space to ground veichle, most of its lift is done with the thruster pods. After watching: ah, ok so you didn't touch on any of the points i expected. . . that's fine, also i agree with the mongoose being in combat. but outside of that i think its a good veichle
I believe that there was a study done that found out that given sufficient thrust could realistically fly due to having not terrible aerodynamic statistics.
@@deez8993 I've seen both, I saw one person throw what looked like a pregnant pelican into an aerodynamic sim and run it and it didn't go well, but I've also seen people do papers on the pelican and how it would do in flight. But those were just my thoughts from before the video lol They didn't cover the pelican. But a lot of people complain that it might not be aerodynamic even though they forget that it does not need to be at all, you could drop the wings entirely and it would still work as it's a space to ground vehicle, not an air to ground.
More Halo rants please. But to be fair to the Warthog it be useful as a Rear line Utility and Gofor Vehicle. Much like the Humvee was pre Iraq Afghanistan war, and the new M1297 Army Ground Mobility Vehicle is. With M1297 having an Armor kit ready for it, made to be install at 10 level, so it can act as a scout. If the Warthog had a Armor Kit, and a remote turret it be fair better. But it does not so I agree its a Great Value Hilux.
The Warthog did have removable armor cover but it weighed down the vehicle and wasn't really useful against plasma fire so they just removed but it was very useful during the interplanetary wars against the insurrectionist tho
yeah there's some solid points, but also some historical inspiration for some of the stuff in universe. ODSTs are paratroopers who graduated from jetpacks so they can drop in from orbit. that and i always thought the warthog situation was because of materials being better put to new vehicles and troop armor for the new recruits when the war started.
You wanna talk poor design by the UNSC? Take a look at Halo 4's gunship pelican that you fly near the end of it. The chaingun/laser nose turret is damn fine, but everything else is a joke. That tank cannon is absolutely worthless, and don't get me started on those SIDE-MOUNTED, MANUALLY-CONTROLLED, HOT SEAT MACHINE GUNS!
For the nearly 30 year long UNSC-Covenant war UNSC equipment for the ground forces and armors were extremely underwhelming especially for the desperation of the war being a total war of extermination. There's only a couple of the big mechs and new versions of the scorpion tank in Halo 5 which are only moderitnity better then their unadvance and not very strong predecessors. To say the least the manufacturing production complex and weapons research facilities did a horrible job in their developing and design performance. Only Halo Legends did they really try to make a very powerful exoskeleton and they failed preserving the designs for the awesome Exoskeleton which puts Astarte Terminators look premative. The UNSC should have been extremely crippled after Halo 3 for a long time then the bs 343 pulled.
I mean with the prototype and why it was destroyed it was supposed to keep the Spartan 2s secret from the covenant plus it needs to be connected like the Evangelion from Neon Genesis because it's connected to a cord keeping it powered but it's schematics was never destroyed they made a new one but it was used to test the master chief newest armor at the time which was in the last 3 months of the war
The prototype suit is interesting in that it was essentially the precursor to 2 different systems. The mjolnir armour for the Spartans as well as the hrunting ygrasil project, which created the likes of the cyclops and mantis mechs. As to the R&D side of things. When the enemy can hit harder than you, can travel faster than you and outnumber you, trying to even the playing field through sheer weight of fire and bodies was really the only option. Mass produce what works until you can buy yourself some breathing room. In space, the UNSC needed roughly a 3 - 1 ratio vs the covenant to achieve victory and even then, large chunks of the fleet would be lost in the action. This was why the UNSC skewed towards a frigate heavy navy. The bigger ships just didn't have the durability vs the covenant weaponry to justify their cost, from materials to price to manpower. We see in Halo 2 the fleet under the command of Admiral Harper has 6-8 cruisers and 50-60+ frigates
Actually that Prototype's design DID get preserved, the Mark I [J] in Halo Wars 2 is a _canonical variant_ which means it DID see production we just never see it in the games!
Honestly, both have some realistic vehicles, and some pretty dumb outlandish ones. Given that geedubs takes more quasi inspiration from historical vehicles. Id lean slightly more towards the imperium. I say that only because most of halos vehicles would actively kill the secondary gunner/shotgun seater.
@@atankersview at least whilst rattling inside of cramped interior of a chimera at least the gunner and operators protected, even the sentinel walkers can be up armored if needed, the closest vehicles I could think off equivalent to the warthog would be the tauros, a lightweight buggy used by the Elysian shock troopers as a form of rapid attack vehicles, being caps of being deployed via a sky tallon drop ship, its main purpose is to advance ahead of the attack and use its overwhelming speed and firepower to out maneuver and out gun their opponents, using a grenade launcher or flamethrower against enemy infantry and a HKM for any vehicle firepower, whilst the much heavier and more up armored versions the tauros venator, is equipped with twin multi lasers which are up gunned lasguns for anti infantry or even anti soft skinned targets like jet bikes and so on, twin las cannon for dedicated anti vehicle capabilities or a mix between both a multi laser and a lascannon for more flexibility, but enemy still whilst the drive is alarmingly exposed, the gunner on the other hand is at the very least protected.
The mongoose is fine. Its primarily a scout vehicle. Its use in tip of the spear was because it was fast and on hand which goes along with Kat's philosophy of fast and loud. As for the warthog it was designed as a highly versatile utv and predates the domus diaspora in which its offroad capabilities made it extremely useful wherever it went. Also its worth mentioning that not all warthogs look like that. Thats just the one everyone knows from the main series. It's a simple, reliable, lightweight, system that can bring a lot of firepower just about anywhere. Its also not the primary troop transport at least according to lore. As for the elephant, I guess its supposed to be a mobile comand center which I guess makes sense in certain terrains and some of the downsides of it are mitigated by its ability to be moved into position by condor. The mammoth which I you called an elephant is sadly not good in any way. I really want to love it because the concept is so cool but its just too big for its own good. I think if they shrank it down, made it an 8 by 8, got rid of the carrier concept and just made it a very powerful artillery implacement that could be placed in a position where it could be a semi mobile area denial system it would be great. It would be a mobile version of the railgun in Azad ship breaking yard. If used in batteries it could prevent ships like corvettes and the like from reaching key positions.
The mammoth. Remove the gun and flatten the top into a landing pad. The internals can be outfitted with extra fuel tanks, ammo and spare parts for field repairs and requips.
Clearly both sides decided to get their best video game developers (who have zero experience with the military) to lead the war effort in both strategy, design, and procurement. Thus resulting in this mess.
You may shit on the warthog, but the warthog is gonna outlive you in some form + you gotta admit it’s better than the polaris at least, the mongoose makes a great scout, revenant makes a good enough self propelled artillery
Just a little correction. The thing you are going on about when talking about the elephant is actually the halo 4 Mammoth. Im not gonna defend it because that thing just is and it doesnt make sense
The UNSC was unprepared for the covenant both doctrinally and in terms of procurement. This was for a variety of reasons, even down to them simply not expecting to ever fight anything other than insurgents. The UNSC was an Uber military never meant to actually fight anyone. They have superior technology to ours but they lack any amount of actually functional operational doctrine, same for the covenant but the covenant make sense as they literally lack the technical knowledge for their technology. The US air force is for all intents and purposes millions of times more effective than the UNSC air force, a squadron of f-15s or f-18s would've Gained air superiority in any operation of the war, a banshee can't survive a fox 3 from BVR. Actually, just in general, the covenant have no actual range with the exception of lasers in their navy, the US military would evaporate the covenant with artillery and airstrikes. The UNSC seems to lack amount of modern tactics. Getting into a firing line in a space battle whilst outgunned, outmatched and outnumbered is nonsense. Spinal railguns are badass but doctrinally speaking they're worthless. What the UNSC should've done was throw nuke salvos or casaba-howitzers at the covenant from wayyy longer range on wayy smaller, faster and more numerous ships while using gravitational rotations around celestial bodies to engage and disengage as much as possible. Just, in general, an f-18 evaporates anything both factions have at their disposal that isn't a capital ship, in spite of the fact that both factions DO have FAR superior technology in every aspect
at the very least the scorpion does. Quad tracks just add unnecessary weight and a 90mm cannon seems lack luster considering 120mm more or less being standard. Sure sabots exist, why not fire a 90mm sabot from a 120mm cannon with all the increased pressure and thus muzzle velocity that would allow? Walkers, cool as the seem make zero practical logic for a war machine. All the weight requires more energy to move legs and then there are the countless fail points in the articulation needed for feel and legs anyway. Then there are the Covenant vehicles..... cool as a hover bike is, it is beyond stupid to make an open topped skimmer without so much as a wind screen to guard the operator. I could go on,
I agree that the halo vehicles have a incredibly stupid and hazardous designs. But I would say that they all fall in the rule of cool. They just look sick even though you would never actually want to be anywhere near the UNSC vehicles in any real situation.
I know I said this in another vid before, but I would be interested to see you take a look at StarCraft's vehicles in the future as well, I am especially curious to see how you would dismantle the whole _"two-in-one vehicles are cheaper/better than two separate, dedicated vehicles"_ argument that people often use for transforming vehicles like the Siege Tank, Hellion/Hellbat and Viking.
Yeah, that's never true in reality. The technology in those vehicles to transform drastically increases the cost to manufacture them and the complexity of that increases the points of failure from use over time, which leads to increased maintenance needs and further logistical strain. Of all things, you do not want to add more motors to a design beyond what is needed. A tank with no turret is cheaper and easier (faster) to manufacture than a tank with a turret. Not difficult to understand why, and how that applies mechanically to transforming vehicles. (To further this analogy, while a tank with a turret is more desirable than a tank with no turret [that's why almost every tank today has one, but there is a use case for reducing the tank's profile with the gun in the hull], adding even more turrets does not make the tank better while making it more expensive and longer to manufacture) In WW2, the US and Germany developed halftracks for their armies, thinking they could combine the best of both tracked and wheeled vehicles for moving infantry around and being mobile platforms for heavy support weapons (AA, mortars, flamethrowers, AT guns, etc). They were worse at both speed and offroad capabilities while not being worth the cost to manufacture. No one bothered to design new halftracks after the war; further development into tracked or wheeled vehicles yielded better vehicles for their specific tasks. The Thor also technically transforms, iirc, but primarily as a game balancing mechanic between AA area and single target modes. There's not a good reason why it couldn't actually achieve both functions without transforming. Or better yet, designing a seperate vehicle for AA duty, but the Thor is silly anyways. I do not want to imagine how difficult it would be to mass produce mechs.
@@marcinmisiek768 Yep, and even if you use material cost as an argument, i.e. the amount of metal it takes to build an MBT-sized 'mech with hands that can do the job of an MBT and an engineering vehicle at the same time, it is still very likely not worth it, and it would still be much worse than either dedicated vehicle at each respective job. The Siege Tank stands out in particular to me out of all of StarCraft's vehicles because it is so fragile and terrible at being a tank that they should have just fully committed to its self-propelled artillery role. Hell, the closest thing in SC to fulfilling the role of a battle tank is the Immortal, an _alien walker,_ that thing legit out-tanks the Siege Tank, oh the irony.
@@R17inatorall starcraft vehicles are unnaturally fragile for their size and weight class unless you're one of those that believe an hydralisk spikes can core through a mountain or something
@@XD-sc4ix I am well aware, they make everything killable by basic shooting ground infantry because "balance reasons". Either way, the siege tank is pretty much a tank that never should have been one in the first place, and everyone generally seems to agree by keeping them in artillery mode as much as possible.
So, pop screen AND wind muffle on the mic while the audio quality itself couldn't be worse on carbon capsule? Well, I guess, whatever looks most impressive and pseudo-professional on YT, viewers listen with their eyes anyways …
I think the scarb was orginally just a mining vehicle before the war and start of war, but do to how annoying us human where and this found this vehicle worked well for seiging on the planets they could not jusy glass from orbit
Halo's vehicle design almost always sucks from a logistical/functional stand point because they try to go for the cool and mechanically sound factor of it all Warthog's have open cover design with the gunner very clearly exposed so the game doesn't slog because of the three very well coordinated dudes on a car, the scorpion wouldn't be fun if it needed a crew so one man tank with little to now actual good shielding it is! The wasp would crumble upon a small breeze but it wouldn't do good to the gameplay if we included an F15 as the air vehicle, the covenant could most definitely put shields on the Ghost's driver seat, but that wouldn't be fun to fight against would it? Halo first and foremost wanted something fun to play around with and made it's darn best to make those things look cool, and in my heart they more than succeeded. And to those who will complain, no, the falcon is a damn bad vehicle in its design, cannonically the needler can *two shot* a spartan II and it makes no sense as part of the design for a war vehicle to have their passengers and gunners exposed to both the elements and incoming fire, yet it is my favorite vehicle in the series.
tbh with the unsc i have a feeling they blew most of their budget on super soldier programs to aim at rebellious colonies and were like oh shit we need to throw together some basic vehicles because we have a bigger problem now
A lot for the vehicles/equipment are immensely out of date, like 100+ years out of date. The halo 1 scorpion I think was like 300 odd years old before it got updated. It is no stretch to say that the various spartan programmes were insanely expensive. A single spartan II mjolnir suit cost as much as an entire destroyer class spaceship
@@hammer1349 tbh kinda why i made my comment i'm just versed enough in halo lore to know the whole spartan program was a big spend and unless i'm mistaken it was originally super soldiers to throw at rebellious colonies before the covenant showed up and spartans got thrown at them instead
@@Sarindanvelor pretty much yeah. The Orion project was the name for the Spartan 1s essentially which ended in failure though did give us SGT Johnson. Much of the Spartan programme was done under the watch of ONI, Office of Naval Intelligence, which is one of the darkest institutions going.
@@Sarindanvelor fair though ONI did experiment with the flood, and try to frame the Master Chief of all people for the killing of a Sangheli delegation when in actuality it was insurgents unhappy with the peace talks
when ya look at the bigger picture, ya gotta look at the budget and how much manpower they can muster... while yes you had the automated turret vehicles, they were very expensive to produce and program and add the training, they just too much time to get 1 out on the field and ready to fight while the warthog could be mass produced and have people trained much quicker and easier. fighting against the covenant, it was all about how fast can you deploy to counter them to buy civilians time to escape. automated vehicles took to much time and thats about it
my copium for halo having bad vehicles (not counting 343s stupidity) is that they didn't put a lot of effort into the ground forces during the insurrection because they were doing ok with just lots of ships and were sol when an actual threat showed up
YEAH, WE DO KNOW IT, BUT WE LOVE IT, BECAUSE WE ARE JUST AS INSANE AS THE VEHICLE DESIGNS; I HOPE YOU'RE PUTTING ON A FAÇADE OF BEING UNABLE TO ENJOY SOMETHING IF IT'S UNREALISTIC, AND IF YOU ARE JUST PUTTING ON A FAÇADE THEN POWER TO YOU, BUT IF YOU'RE GENUINELY BUTTHURT BY THINGS LIKE VEHICLE DESIGN BEING UNREALISTIC, THEN I AM TRULY SORRY FOR YOU. BEING ABLE TO ENJOY THINGS REGARDLESS OF THE NATURE OF THEIR INHERENT IRREALITY IS TRULY BADASS! PEACE ON EARTH BROTHER, A NICE VIDEO REGARDLESS!
6:22 Well the Scorpion only needs 1 man to drive the thing and fire the main gun at the same time (instead of a full crew like most tanks), but if I were to amend the scorpion at a glance… ⚪️I’d make sure the machine gun is built into the tank turret again ⚪️Add defensive measures to the scorpion that have become widespread in real tanks since CE ⚪️Maybe increase the size of the chassis to accommodate holding more troops inside (While allowing for single or two man control.) Maybe take the machine gun from the top *NEXT TO THE TANK TURRET) and mount them at a 45 degree angle at each corner of the tank, where they’re remotely controlled by the crew inside. (Anti-Infantry capability becomes _especially_ important when you have to factor in the possibility of a sudden flood outbreak.) ⚪️With post-war advances in UNSC tech derived from reverse engineering covenant and forerunner tech, perhaps energy shields and a hover system can be employed. Speed the tank up while negating most rough terrain and all that.
2 points 1) Yes I really want to seemthat full break down it would be hilarious 2) It takes something to beat 40k with impractical vehicles, especially as we were just cursed with the abomination that is the Rogal Dorn and its nipple guns (shouldn't it of been named the Magnus?) IM genuinely impressed Halo!
Yeah, Halo vehicles are pretty silly and stupid, but they are really cool in the games. Realism means nothing in fiction as the "rule of cool" trumps all. And the Scarab is a mining platform first, not an assault platform, so it's design faults are only just justified. Please do more rants though, this was pretty funny and enjoyable to watch.
So i completely buggered up and said elephant in the video when i meant mammoth. But the elephant was a pretty useless contraption in halo wars as well.
Pretty sure the elephant was ment to be a vehicle recovery platform
@@bradleymunden2968 halo wars turned it into a big apc
Make video about System Alliance vechicles.
How about a video about Battlzone and Battlezone combat commander?
@@commentator4515 Yes PLEASE! I wanna see that too!
The Chinese Phoenix (TRO) in particular stands out because you see V-Thruster exhaust coming from the pods for the Rocket Bombs... Why would you put weapons on the same place you put thrusters? How do you move while aiming (or aim while moving)?
The ISDF Attilla stands incredibly tall only for them to put the cockpit back down near the feet and the weapons even lower than that so you made the vehicle incredibly tall and then sacrificed the vantage point granted by said height, especially when compared to the NSDF Sasquatch.
12:14 The lore behind the chopper is actually kind of funny. When the Covenant first encountered Humanity, an engineer tried to recreate the tractors they saw on Harvest as a peace offering. Tartarus took one look at it and started hyperventilating.
Contact harvest. Built by tends to drift.
@@atankersviewhave you ever seen “Valkyrie Chronicles?” They’ve got a lot of tank designs from the surprisingly mundane to the whacked. They had a crossover with WoT a while ago and they’re also a feature of some AMV Sabaton songs
My theory on this is that the UNSC devoted almost its entire budget to the Navy which meant its ground forces had to make do with scraps.
In universe though humanity got stagnate during the golden era of colonisation
When the insurrection happened they devoted their ground forces to COIN ops so they had to relearn how to fight
But that still is doesn't explain why they went with style over substance for the rifles, their VK commando is rediculous our current AR 15 in 6.5 can carry double that.
Sounds like ww2 Japan.😂
This is sorta true, the "army" was an afterthought that had been reduced to purely anti-terrorist duties prior to the Covenant showing up.
Also, the Marines have to have all their stuff airmobile.
Funny enough, this isn't actually far from accurate.
The Chopper was a agricultural tractor and the Scarab is a mining drill with bolted on armor and guns. I don't think the Covenant had a design bureau and just slapped together stuff till it didn't explode
They're a lot like the Imperium. They see Forerunner tech as divine and anything else is heresy.
for them a design bureau would have been heresy
Pretty sure the Revenant is a sportscar with a mortar slapped onto it too
The covenant literally doesn’t have a design beauro, they GROW these things in forerunner assembly forges they only partially understand.
The tiny cruiser from halo 4 is canonically one of those bigger cruisers from the other games that some elite punched in the wrong numbers for so instead of producing a few dozen large cruisers it produced a few hundred tiny ones.
you didnt take in to account the drip. The best part of being a space marine is the drip thats why they charge for it in infinite
The warthog had an interesting history since originally it was just a humvee before the changes but in lore there was some armored variants but for the most part standard warthogs did have armor they can add but it just couldn't survive plasma fire and heavy but you should definitely check out some of the Fallout vehicles
As far as I’m aware Warthogs can take a decent amount of plasma fire. Obviously not sustained plasma fire and the wheels would be quite vulnerable. However the philosophy of the Warthog besides being a scout vehicle is a vehicle designed to rapidly deploy troopers or go hit and run attacks. Imagine a jeep flying in and laying off a couple volleys of rockets or even a couple Guass Canon shots before dipping and before your troopers can get a shot at it it’s gone. Only for another Warthog to show up and do the same.
Brings up Elephant, proceeds to show a mammoth
Yeah i mentioned that slip up in the pinned comment 😁
Halo vehicles: Iconic
Also Halo vehicles: FUCKING EXPLODES FROM A SNIPER RIFLE
A 50 cal sniper with armor piercing bullets
7:32 "The Elephant", shows (and complains about) the MAMMOTH, but both aren't really front line vehicles, their essentially "mini"-mobile FoBs.
My assumption is that, for gameplay reasons (and lack of better ideas), vehicle crews had to be somewhat exposed and their weapons impractical enough that they didn't end a game in half a second from being fired. And at least we get a good laugh out of them!
The concept of "agreeing to disagree" is a beautiful thing.
Funny. Here's the actual design process: can we shoot the driver/pilot in multiplayer? Yes? Design approved! The only exceptions are the Wraith and Banshee--because Covenant vehicles were designed to be destructible in Halo Combat Evolved whereas UNSC vehicles weren't. Again, the reason why the vehicles are so iconic and so badly designed from the real world perspective is because they are designed to make sure the driver/pilot can DIE.
Personally I think you should check out the vehicles in Gears of War because id love to see you tear those things apart mainly the WWE monster truck that has a tank cannon mounted on the top of it.
Don’t disrespect the Centaur Tank blood
Ok but that centaur was cool ngl lmao
Its almost as if Bungie is was a legendary developer capable of making perfect gameplay by not giving a shit about how "real" something is. 343 then thought it had to look more realistic….
To be fair, the UNSC could only use what was carried aboard the Pillar of Autumn in Halo: CE. Afterwards, all I could think of is Bungie's developers just didn't know anything about military application.
Even then the Pillar of Autumn is a large ship around the size of a small city. They could carry more than what Bungie's numbers were.
And that's without addressing the scaling issue of the series.
Also yes they apparently don't have a clue about how militaries operate .
But the real problem here is the vehicles design more than just numbers of vehicles.
@@John2r1I agree the design of these vehicles is the single biggest issue with them.
The main reason why UNSC vehicles are the way they are because they draw alot of inspirations from WWII and Vietnam.
Outdated and don't provide alot of cover(If any). Also the Rule of Cool.
Also the Prophet of Drip is insanely accurate to the lore.
While it was kinda dumb for the UNSC to deploy a lot of Mongooses and Warthogs during the Battle of Reach usually the Warthog is a great hit and run vehicle. And the Mongoose with a SPNKR Marine on the back turns the vehicle into a mobile missile launcher. Or is great for transporting 2 Spartans very quickly.
Honestly Halo’s vehicles can make some sense of you consider the fact that the marines are meant for planetary invasions basically. Meaning their ships have to carry as much equipment as possible to stage a planetary invasion. So one something like the warthog while not very well armored is light and as a result is easy to transport a good amount of them and deploy them on planet. I cannot have the same defense for the UNSC Army.
To be honest the Army is one of the largely forgotten about sections of Halo
@@commando7238 yeah considering the army uses Mantis, Colossus, Grizzley Tanks, and along with more armored infantry.
The army would have access to APCs. Two of them already exist in Halo Wars the Bison and Mastodon.
Are you telling me that adding 1 extra ton of armor to the warthog would make them too heavy?
Here are my thoughts on Halo's vehicles that don't mean anything:
Warthog: When I first played the Halo CE remake and saw the warthog, I thought the UNSC was losing the war so badly that they were taking whatever vehicle they could find and putting a gun on it.
Scorpion: I like the one from Halo 5.
Mongoose: I always disliked it.
Mammoth: I like the look of it. It would be much better if it was smaller and acted more like an IFV.
Ghost: Why isn't the cockpit shielded like how the Halo 5's grunt goblin is?
Spectre: Everyone forgets the spectre; it's that Covenant Warthog.
Revenant: Why is it a two-seater? You only need one.
Wraith: The anti-air wraith is batter.
Scarab: You should only be able to kill it from the inside, like how it is in Halo 2.
Brute chopper: In the lore, the chopper was meant to be a farming tool, but brutes put some guns on it
theres is one that is called the mastodon, Its a IFV for halo wars 2.
The Elites in the lore have a honor based system where they actually want to be seen in combat and depending on the vehicle wanted to stick out. Also in Halo Wars all Covenant vehicles had shields including the Chopper and Ghost.
@@PackHunter117 That would be fine if the Elites were the ones using ghosts in combat the most, but most of the time, it's the grunts, so why not put a hardened shield around the cockpit? I also find it odd that the banished doesn't cover the cockpit of the ghost; the banished doesn't have honour system. About Covenant's vehicles having shields in Halo Wars isn't Connon. Tho,the banshee might have shields, or just be the heretic banshee. There is a scene where a heretic banshee is being shot at, and it looks like it has shields; this is in the remake of Halo 2.
@@Gotnothingatall 343 should being the mastodon over to the next or even DLC for infinite, it should be like the razorback but it could hold more marines, just think if all the marines had sentinel beams how mach fun would it be
@@prtfdc2 Depends on the game. Halo Wars always has Elites driving them. Halo 3 doesn’t because obviously the Elites aren’t in the Covenant anymore.
I love the series but youre not telling any lies. Especially with the Warthog.
If I hit an incline going too slow OR too fast, my warthog becomes a varsity cheerleader doing all sorts of flips BUTT she doesnt stick the landing and brings the whole pyramid down with her....
7:30 That is the Mammoth not the elephant
See pinned comment lmao. But cheers
The warthogs okay I guess as a realistic vehicle, but apart from its massively exposed windscreen and lack of armor protection as well as doors it’s pretty useless.
There is a sci fi series I just found out about that has a huge abundant amounts of tanks and mechs which are mass produced in mere minutes and make entire battlefields look like war worlds within an hour. Mechs, tanks, aircraft, ships, production facilities, artillery, anti air defenses, tactical nukes, installations, fielded energy shields all produced in mere minutes and set immediately to the conflict.
It's called the Supcom verse. A series of strageic games.
The engagements can become so intensely chaotic even to Astartes and the Imperial Guard of Warhammer 40k this is to overwhelming. Ai send out waves of waves of enemies to attack your base throwing nukes, bombers, interceptors, and legions of mechs and tanks which constantly get more advance as the engagement draws out.
There are tanks and mechs that could rival that of the arsenals from the Bolo Series. Even the Bolo Mk.33. I am serious. If you want to check out how crazy the battles can become just watch some ai vs ai battle videos of Supreme Commander Forged Alliance.
You will see what I am talking about.
Oh my brother in christ. I play SCFA with the faf mod jacked up. I love it. Ive actually managed to max out my graphics card a few times on it
@@atankersview
Supreme Commander is a series which would make for some good tank reviews. This game's verse is so intense and so rapid in it's development of shipyards, factories, and refineries it's almost impossible for the Imperium of Man to keep up with that even with Emperor class Titans which Supcom can produce mechs and tanks that can rival and surpass event the firepower of those.
Imagine producing that kind of firepower in mere seconds. Matter conversion is just op.
Their tanks and mechs can even have shield generators just like the Bolo Mk.33 does.
Tell that to the taliban and other pirate groups manage kicked our asses with some warthog style truck aka TOYOTA HILUX with guns on it.
*The UNSC also DO HAVE APCs. One is the M88 Bison and the other is the M650 Mastodon. The reason why Warthogs are seen more is because the Warthog is because in lore the Warthog is a fantastic scout vehicle and is a very easy vehicle for Marines and Army Troopers to learn to drive plus it can be outfitted and changed relatively quickly.*
The hog; yeah it is a total slave to the rule of cool.
The scorp; I've seen that video already yeah, spookston was very compelling.
The ghost; the sangheili perfer it open seat to prove they are more balsey than you, its handling characteristics are in 100% the prophet's doing though.
The revenant; see ghost but with bigger gun, bonus passenger space.
Wraith; yeah you're on point there.
The chopper; who'd guess a design intended originally to be a tractor would make for a dubiously useful combat vehicle?
I think most of the newer vehicles from Halo Wars 1 and 2 are pretty alright . IFVs , Grizzlies as MBTs , and up armored Warhogs with bigger guns
They just dont add them to the FPS games
And the Mammoth for me always should have been a Command Vehicle like at a Battalion level it sits in the back and does recovery of damaged vehicles
Buddy.. this was your input. This is not the only view... you have to understand that. I strongly disagree with you. Your view is not the only view
Its the internet, dont take anything i say seriously. I sure as hell dont. I say it pretty much every other video. Cheers
So for me, I feel like the warthog and mongoose are supposed to be scout vehicles, meaning to be in and out fast after a scout mission.
the tank feels like it is supposed to be like that because designed that way because of terrain issues and to be better cover when destroyed.
Mammoth is supposed to be a mobile base/the answer to the Scarab due to the rail gun, and rockets.
Also given that the human covenant war was slowly starting, a lot more resources/money got sourced to inner planetary/outterplanetary defenses/offense, so that's probably why marine vehicles are the way they are.
The 'Hog is in lore a Recon Vehicle, it's just so I C O N I C that we're stuck with it at all times now.
the hog in the lore actually has variants with increased armor, the game hog may be the result of the covenant war, its cut down armor is the result of sticky plasma and material losses, being able to get out quick if you or the truck gets tagged was handy. plasma also seems to play hell with electronics (anyone whos ever popped a vehicle with an over charged plasma pistol prior to climbing aboard to give the pilot the good news knows what im talking about.) it could be the manual open topped design IS a response to the war they're fighting. the hogs ballistic plating was doing sweet bugger all against the bulk of covenant weaponry, and marines were reporting being able to get the hell out in a hurry when gator face stitched a line of blue balls up the hood or god forbid tagged the gunner as more useful. pretty sure the hog in contact harvest resembles the ones from the games but is also the equivalent of something you might find in a national guard reserve motor pool. the guns manual because the stupid RC system cooks as soon as the first unggoy so much as glances at it. the doors are gone because they were proving more of an impediment to bailing out than they were providing protection. as for the hogs tendancy to roll, spartans weigh something like a half a ton each, so thats up to a ton and a half of weight the hog wasn't designed for sitting and or standing on top of it. the one exception game is odst and those dudes are built different. they happily throw themselves at a planet in a metal box made by the lowest bidder, taking a couple corners to fast or mis judging a drop shouldn't be surprising.
i always had the impression that the mongoose was supposed to be a courier vehicle, like it was never meant for combat its just the unsc pressing anything that'll run into service. (see reach and the repeated acquisition of whats probably someones farm truck for use as improvised warthog.) the mammoth has no excuse to be what and where it is. i mean in theory its an interesting platform but it shouldnt be spearheading an op. the mammoth as designed sings enormous self propelled artillery. (which to be fair, is what it gets used for, the problem is the complete lack of aerospace cover or forward recon, (which i suspect if not for game restrictions and narrative you could have corrected some. the hogs are recon and spotting vehicles, the mammoth in theory has its own security picket aboard and on appropriate ground provides the unsc with a solution to the covenants worm colonys masquerading as over sized cockroaches. del rio was just horribly misusing his. infinity could have supported it prroperly, del rio chose not too.
The verbage on display is mythic
i like how the warthog is by the settings own lore supposed to be a recon vehicle and since its so iconic is just used as their main fighting vehicle
being especially silly with tip of the spear in reach where they are used by the army in a direct head on assault on a fortified covenant position what makes it completely insane is is there are dudes on mongooses alongside them with a guy with a assault rifle on the back
despite be an advanced galactic military force the UNSC get their entire battle strategy from the Chad Toyota war and gang drivebys
but even they had vehicles that had the driver covered
I've been saying this for ages. If it was actually USED AS A LIGHT RECON VEHICLE or by SOF units, then the Warthog would be a great vehicle. But the UNSC just builds a hundred of them and tells the drivers to charge right in to an enemy force of a thousand. It's just so frustrating the lack of any common sense from the writers is what gets me.
@@spookypepper6900 I think by the time of the battle of reach the Warthog was basically the only thing the UNSC had other than the Scorpion. All of the APC, IFV or armoured car that normally filled the niches in between the Warthog and Scorpion had been long since withdrawn when they proved no more survivable against the covenant weaponry and less cost efficient. The scorpion was likely the lightest vehicle that can survive direct concentrated covenant weapon fire, whilst being the heaviest vehicle that was still strategically, operationally and tactically mobile
In early Halo games, the Wraith's gunner wasn't exposed. I believe the separate gunner was added because the player couldn't use the autoguns added in Halo 2 since the secondary button was already used for the Wraith's booster.
It is my theory, I haven't confirmed this, that the Warthog is open topped to make it easier to design a fast animation for when a character gets in and out of it.
Makes sense the main car of the humans is a technical
If it aint a hi-lux it aint nothing to write home about lol
they didnt steal the big wheel bike
We used to joke about the Warthog when i was in RC East back in 2009. We had uparmored humvees and all agreed we'd rather have that than the Warthog.
Seriously, 500 years in the future and the main ground vehicle for the army and marines is a TECHNICAL???
@@phantomwraith1984 They were still using 03 Suburbans and Toyota technicals in the show...
I understand your POV we do have to acknowledge one fact, The U.N.S.C. didn't started with great vehicles becouse, nobody had a military branch in the first place.
It was all purely meant for colonialing planets, not military, that is until insurrectionist war came that is when they started.
I do beloieve the mongoose was use for scouting in human wars but in "Halo 3 and reach", pretty sure they use in act of desperation hench fourth, it looked dumb... still an opinion is opinion, just saying.
I do get what your saying both side of vehicles designs are dumd and has no common sence, of protecting their user from being in danger.
You missed the most sensible piece of gear ever devised, the shade turret (type 26, bar the heavy ig, and type 55) literally blowing bubbles and then suspending them in a live battlefield for masterchief to pop. Also the only non floating floating vehicle, I love halo but why on earth can the ghost almost fly with its boost but the shade can’t even hover without the base?!
The rule of cool has its limits 😆
The covenant conversation got me
Honestly, if you assume that the Warthog is literally the equivalent of an Interstellar Age Technical that the UNSC Marine Corps and Army had at least two depots worlds filled with thanks to their common role pre-Insurrection being patrolling the less developed areas of the colony worlds, then that makes some more sense. Especially when you factor in that they probably inherited a colossal quantity of 'warfighting equipment' (which is closer to Law Enforcement grade) when the Colonial Military Authority got disbanded for being either A) Insurrectionists, B) Petty Tyrants creating Insurrectionists or C) So corrupt that the Petty Tyrants were more beneficial to the destruction of the Insurrection.
In simpler words? It is in fact the Interstellar Hilux, and they're using that because they've got so many Warthogs remaining that they aren't going to run out soon. Especially if the Warthog is cheaper to build replacements for than APCs, IFVs and MRAPs, less likely to be destroyed due to how 'agile' they are (especially when the armour packages are stripped to make them lighter) when hit by Covenant plasma and that until the more developed Inner Colonies got hit, were the 'combat' vehicles likely to be on hand because of industrial limitations, the usage situation for the colony in question and a bunch of other things.
Of course, this doesn't mean the Warthog is any less of a bad idea. Just that you can definitely find reasonings behind why it's used that go beyond completely incompetent and utterly corrupt. Not saying those two reasons aren't included, just that there's more than them.
b-but muh hydrogen fuel...
Maybe some excuses (I made up) for the warthog could be:
- it's designed to work in environments with no roads, so maximizing offroad capabilities.
- To keep it light for offroading, no armor.
- To have it very cheap, mass-producable and operable with minimal training, it has just a manual turret and no extra crap.
One use I could think for them is raiding missions, like those SAS troops did to German airfields in africa (ww2).
But having it be the main vehicle and using it in assault and combat roles, is not a good idea.
Dont make me crash my pelican into you, funny thing is the scarabs are mining platforms turned into well weapons
You say halo and starwars have bad vehicle design but ignore Warhammer 😂
People makes fun of the imperium because of "muh WW2 vehicles in SPACE" but as he pointed out a lot of them are competently designed for the most part like the land raider not to mention that orks, eldar and the few chaos vehicles that aren't just repurposed imperial vehicles can be excused since the former literally works only because they think it does therefore it does because WAAAGH magic that's why, eldar literally construct their vehicles out of solidified warp stuff a.k.a magic and the latter literally because of satanic magic being involved or outright needed to construct them
I think the real question is how do they aim the guns with the big bumps on them like the magnum and the AR. They don’t have any sights.
linked to the visor of the soldier using them
before i watch:
mongoose: is fine.
scorpion: should be small because every kg in space is exponentially more money and costs more fuel to move that object, so a main battle tank being small is not abnormal because of that. . . .everything else i agree with.
pelican: should not be airiodynamic as it is an space to ground veichle, most of its lift is done with the thruster pods.
After watching:
ah, ok so you didn't touch on any of the points i expected. . . that's fine, also i agree with the mongoose being in combat. but outside of that i think its a good veichle
I believe that there was a study done that found out that given sufficient thrust could realistically fly due to having not terrible aerodynamic statistics.
@@deez8993 I've seen both, I saw one person throw what looked like a pregnant pelican into an aerodynamic sim and run it and it didn't go well, but I've also seen people do papers on the pelican and how it would do in flight.
But those were just my thoughts from before the video lol
They didn't cover the pelican.
But a lot of people complain that it might not be aerodynamic even though they forget that it does not need to be at all, you could drop the wings entirely and it would still work as it's a space to ground vehicle, not an air to ground.
@V7I-theseventhsector it depends on the model of pelican. The old one, from what I've heard, wasn't half bad, but the new one was a brick.
You had me on the Warthog part. The U.S. seems to care about their troops more then the UNSC.
And that's saying something.
The irony that the UNSC is based off the US Military is something to think about.
I always wondered... Where's the UNSC's non orbital arty?
The kodaic and rhino are the UNSC's ground artillery
More Halo rants please.
But to be fair to the Warthog it be useful as a Rear line Utility and Gofor Vehicle.
Much like the Humvee was pre Iraq Afghanistan war, and the new M1297 Army Ground Mobility Vehicle is.
With M1297 having an Armor kit ready for it, made to be install at 10 level, so it can act as a scout.
If the Warthog had a Armor Kit, and a remote turret it be fair better.
But it does not so I agree its a Great Value Hilux.
The Warthog did have removable armor cover but it weighed down the vehicle and wasn't really useful against plasma fire so they just removed but it was very useful during the interplanetary wars against the insurrectionist tho
yeah there's some solid points, but also some historical inspiration for some of the stuff in universe. ODSTs are paratroopers who graduated from jetpacks so they can drop in from orbit. that and i always thought the warthog situation was because of materials being better put to new vehicles and troop armor for the new recruits when the war started.
You wanna talk poor design by the UNSC? Take a look at Halo 4's gunship pelican that you fly near the end of it.
The chaingun/laser nose turret is damn fine, but everything else is a joke.
That tank cannon is absolutely worthless, and don't get me started on those SIDE-MOUNTED, MANUALLY-CONTROLLED, HOT SEAT MACHINE GUNS!
For the nearly 30 year long UNSC-Covenant war UNSC equipment for the ground forces and armors were extremely underwhelming especially for the desperation of the war being a total war of extermination. There's only a couple of the big mechs and new versions of the scorpion tank in Halo 5 which are only moderitnity better then their unadvance and not very strong predecessors.
To say the least the manufacturing production complex and weapons research facilities did a horrible job in their developing and design performance.
Only Halo Legends did they really try to make a very powerful exoskeleton and they failed preserving the designs for the awesome Exoskeleton which puts Astarte Terminators look premative.
The UNSC should have been extremely crippled after Halo 3 for a long time then the bs 343 pulled.
I mean with the prototype and why it was destroyed it was supposed to keep the Spartan 2s secret from the covenant plus it needs to be connected like the Evangelion from Neon Genesis because it's connected to a cord keeping it powered but it's schematics was never destroyed they made a new one but it was used to test the master chief newest armor at the time which was in the last 3 months of the war
The prototype suit is interesting in that it was essentially the precursor to 2 different systems. The mjolnir armour for the Spartans as well as the hrunting ygrasil project, which created the likes of the cyclops and mantis mechs.
As to the R&D side of things. When the enemy can hit harder than you, can travel faster than you and outnumber you, trying to even the playing field through sheer weight of fire and bodies was really the only option. Mass produce what works until you can buy yourself some breathing room. In space, the UNSC needed roughly a 3 - 1 ratio vs the covenant to achieve victory and even then, large chunks of the fleet would be lost in the action. This was why the UNSC skewed towards a frigate heavy navy. The bigger ships just didn't have the durability vs the covenant weaponry to justify their cost, from materials to price to manpower. We see in Halo 2 the fleet under the command of Admiral Harper has 6-8 cruisers and 50-60+ frigates
Actually that Prototype's design DID get preserved, the Mark I [J] in Halo Wars 2 is a _canonical variant_ which means it DID see production we just never see it in the games!
Out of curiosity but which would you say would be more realistic or practical
UNSCC vehicles
Or
Imperial guard vehicles
Honestly, both have some realistic vehicles, and some pretty dumb outlandish ones. Given that geedubs takes more quasi inspiration from historical vehicles. Id lean slightly more towards the imperium. I say that only because most of halos vehicles would actively kill the secondary gunner/shotgun seater.
@@atankersview at least whilst rattling inside of cramped interior of a chimera at least the gunner and operators protected, even the sentinel walkers can be up armored if needed, the closest vehicles I could think off equivalent to the warthog would be the tauros, a lightweight buggy used by the Elysian shock troopers as a form of rapid attack vehicles, being caps of being deployed via a sky tallon drop ship, its main purpose is to advance ahead of the attack and use its overwhelming speed and firepower to out maneuver and out gun their opponents, using a grenade launcher or flamethrower against enemy infantry and a HKM for any vehicle firepower, whilst the much heavier and more up armored versions the tauros venator, is equipped with twin multi lasers which are up gunned lasguns for anti infantry or even anti soft skinned targets like jet bikes and so on, twin las cannon for dedicated anti vehicle capabilities or a mix between both a multi laser and a lascannon for more flexibility, but enemy still whilst the drive is alarmingly exposed, the gunner on the other hand is at the very least protected.
The mongoose is fine. Its primarily a scout vehicle. Its use in tip of the spear was because it was fast and on hand which goes along with Kat's philosophy of fast and loud. As for the warthog it was designed as a highly versatile utv and predates the domus diaspora in which its offroad capabilities made it extremely useful wherever it went. Also its worth mentioning that not all warthogs look like that. Thats just the one everyone knows from the main series. It's a simple, reliable, lightweight, system that can bring a lot of firepower just about anywhere. Its also not the primary troop transport at least according to lore. As for the elephant, I guess its supposed to be a mobile comand center which I guess makes sense in certain terrains and some of the downsides of it are mitigated by its ability to be moved into position by condor. The mammoth which I you called an elephant is sadly not good in any way. I really want to love it because the concept is so cool but its just too big for its own good. I think if they shrank it down, made it an 8 by 8, got rid of the carrier concept and just made it a very powerful artillery implacement that could be placed in a position where it could be a semi mobile area denial system it would be great. It would be a mobile version of the railgun in Azad ship breaking yard. If used in batteries it could prevent ships like corvettes and the like from reaching key positions.
Having a carrier variant would make a good mobile repir/refuel depot that can be allocated to new areas in short order.
@@KuroChiShikaku carrier variant of what? The elephant or the the mammoth?
The mammoth. Remove the gun and flatten the top into a landing pad. The internals can be outfitted with extra fuel tanks, ammo and spare parts for field repairs and requips.
Clearly both sides decided to get their best video game developers (who have zero experience with the military) to lead the war effort in both strategy, design, and procurement. Thus resulting in this mess.
The rule of cool says youre wrong
The Elephant, an IFV designed by a team of 6 year olds.
Hell it is about good Dam time that some one ripped hard into this setting as its vechels suck and give it the deeper dive.
Awwww man you showed the mammoth instead of the elephant
I wanna see a video series where the vehicles are redesigned to be more effective
The Warthog can probably be excused because it's cheap, and some militaries like cheap and expendable.
ok heres the fact the warthog would be a great vehicle for hit and run tactics or for special forces
So my intuition on the vehicles being ass wasn't wrong. Good for you, teenage me!
You may shit on the warthog, but the warthog is gonna outlive you in some form + you gotta admit it’s better than the polaris at least, the mongoose makes a great scout, revenant makes a good enough self propelled artillery
I remember even as a kid I couldnt get over how retarded the hornet design was.
The Halo fans try and laugh at 40K vehicles when they are atleast based on real equipment. The stuff made for them is 100 times worse.
7:34 the mammoth
Just a little correction. The thing you are going on about when talking about the elephant is actually the halo 4 Mammoth. Im not gonna defend it because that thing just is and it doesnt make sense
The UNSC was unprepared for the covenant both doctrinally and in terms of procurement.
This was for a variety of reasons, even down to them simply not expecting to ever fight anything other than insurgents.
The UNSC was an Uber military never meant to actually fight anyone.
They have superior technology to ours but they lack any amount of actually functional operational doctrine, same for the covenant but the covenant make sense as they literally lack the technical knowledge for their technology.
The US air force is for all intents and purposes millions of times more effective than the UNSC air force, a squadron of f-15s or f-18s would've Gained air superiority in any operation of the war, a banshee can't survive a fox 3 from BVR.
Actually, just in general, the covenant have no actual range with the exception of lasers in their navy, the US military would evaporate the covenant with artillery and airstrikes.
The UNSC seems to lack amount of modern tactics.
Getting into a firing line in a space battle whilst outgunned, outmatched and outnumbered is nonsense.
Spinal railguns are badass but doctrinally speaking they're worthless.
What the UNSC should've done was throw nuke salvos or casaba-howitzers at the covenant from wayyy longer range on wayy smaller, faster and more numerous ships while using gravitational rotations around celestial bodies to engage and disengage as much as possible.
Just, in general, an f-18 evaporates anything both factions have at their disposal that isn't a capital ship, in spite of the fact that both factions DO have FAR superior technology in every aspect
at the very least the scorpion does. Quad tracks just add unnecessary weight and a 90mm cannon seems lack luster considering 120mm more or less being standard. Sure sabots exist, why not fire a 90mm sabot from a 120mm cannon with all the increased pressure and thus muzzle velocity that would allow? Walkers, cool as the seem make zero practical logic for a war machine. All the weight requires more energy to move legs and then there are the countless fail points in the articulation needed for feel and legs anyway. Then there are the Covenant vehicles..... cool as a hover bike is, it is beyond stupid to make an open topped skimmer without so much as a wind screen to guard the operator. I could go on,
"quantity over quality"- unsc
I agree that the halo vehicles have a incredibly stupid and hazardous designs. But I would say that they all fall in the rule of cool. They just look sick even though you would never actually want to be anywhere near the UNSC vehicles in any real situation.
How well will today’s atgm’s fair against halo and imperium tanks and armoured vehicles
If you have the patience for a deep dive, Tony, I'll listen to it all.
The rule of cool: am I a joke to you?
So.... there is a tank, mech thing on Armored Core 6 called the Cataphract. Was wondering if you've taken a look at that monstrousity yet lmao
Can you do videos of those small scenarios you were doing?
I know I said this in another vid before, but I would be interested to see you take a look at StarCraft's vehicles in the future as well, I am especially curious to see how you would dismantle the whole _"two-in-one vehicles are cheaper/better than two separate, dedicated vehicles"_ argument that people often use for transforming vehicles like the Siege Tank, Hellion/Hellbat and Viking.
Yeah, that's never true in reality. The technology in those vehicles to transform drastically increases the cost to manufacture them and the complexity of that increases the points of failure from use over time, which leads to increased maintenance needs and further logistical strain. Of all things, you do not want to add more motors to a design beyond what is needed. A tank with no turret is cheaper and easier (faster) to manufacture than a tank with a turret. Not difficult to understand why, and how that applies mechanically to transforming vehicles.
(To further this analogy, while a tank with a turret is more desirable than a tank with no turret [that's why almost every tank today has one, but there is a use case for reducing the tank's profile with the gun in the hull], adding even more turrets does not make the tank better while making it more expensive and longer to manufacture)
In WW2, the US and Germany developed halftracks for their armies, thinking they could combine the best of both tracked and wheeled vehicles for moving infantry around and being mobile platforms for heavy support weapons (AA, mortars, flamethrowers, AT guns, etc). They were worse at both speed and offroad capabilities while not being worth the cost to manufacture. No one bothered to design new halftracks after the war; further development into tracked or wheeled vehicles yielded better vehicles for their specific tasks.
The Thor also technically transforms, iirc, but primarily as a game balancing mechanic between AA area and single target modes. There's not a good reason why it couldn't actually achieve both functions without transforming. Or better yet, designing a seperate vehicle for AA duty, but the Thor is silly anyways. I do not want to imagine how difficult it would be to mass produce mechs.
@@marcinmisiek768 Yep, and even if you use material cost as an argument, i.e. the amount of metal it takes to build an MBT-sized 'mech with hands that can do the job of an MBT and an engineering vehicle at the same time, it is still very likely not worth it, and it would still be much worse than either dedicated vehicle at each respective job.
The Siege Tank stands out in particular to me out of all of StarCraft's vehicles because it is so fragile and terrible at being a tank that they should have just fully committed to its self-propelled artillery role. Hell, the closest thing in SC to fulfilling the role of a battle tank is the Immortal, an _alien walker,_ that thing legit out-tanks the Siege Tank, oh the irony.
@@R17inatorall starcraft vehicles are unnaturally fragile for their size and weight class unless you're one of those that believe an hydralisk spikes can core through a mountain or something
@@XD-sc4ix I am well aware, they make everything killable by basic shooting ground infantry because "balance reasons". Either way, the siege tank is pretty much a tank that never should have been one in the first place, and everyone generally seems to agree by keeping them in artillery mode as much as possible.
@@R17inator even in artillery mode it's pretty garbage
Bro took almost 4mins to get to the point
Leave my Warthog alone! *Hiss!*
So, pop screen AND wind muffle on the mic while the audio quality itself couldn't be worse on carbon capsule? Well, I guess, whatever looks most impressive and pseudo-professional on YT, viewers listen with their eyes anyways …
As a longtime halo fan I have to agree that most UNSC vehicles suck,
I think the scarb was orginally just a mining vehicle before the war and start of war, but do to how annoying us human where and this found this vehicle worked well for seiging on the planets they could not jusy glass from orbit
Halo's vehicle design almost always sucks from a logistical/functional stand point because they try to go for the cool and mechanically sound factor of it all
Warthog's have open cover design with the gunner very clearly exposed so the game doesn't slog because of the three very well coordinated dudes on a car, the scorpion wouldn't be fun if it needed a crew so one man tank with little to now actual good shielding it is! The wasp would crumble upon a small breeze but it wouldn't do good to the gameplay if we included an F15 as the air vehicle, the covenant could most definitely put shields on the Ghost's driver seat, but that wouldn't be fun to fight against would it?
Halo first and foremost wanted something fun to play around with and made it's darn best to make those things look cool, and in my heart they more than succeeded.
And to those who will complain, no, the falcon is a damn bad vehicle in its design, cannonically the needler can *two shot* a spartan II and it makes no sense as part of the design for a war vehicle to have their passengers and gunners exposed to both the elements and incoming fire, yet it is my favorite vehicle in the series.
tbh with the unsc i have a feeling they blew most of their budget on super soldier programs to aim at rebellious colonies and were like oh shit we need to throw together some basic vehicles because we have a bigger problem now
A lot for the vehicles/equipment are immensely out of date, like 100+ years out of date. The halo 1 scorpion I think was like 300 odd years old before it got updated.
It is no stretch to say that the various spartan programmes were insanely expensive. A single spartan II mjolnir suit cost as much as an entire destroyer class spaceship
@@hammer1349 tbh kinda why i made my comment i'm just versed enough in halo lore to know the whole spartan program was a big spend and unless i'm mistaken it was originally super soldiers to throw at rebellious colonies before the covenant showed up and spartans got thrown at them instead
@@Sarindanvelor pretty much yeah. The Orion project was the name for the Spartan 1s essentially which ended in failure though did give us SGT Johnson. Much of the Spartan programme was done under the watch of ONI, Office of Naval Intelligence, which is one of the darkest institutions going.
@@hammer1349 tbf oni in halo lore is basically just cia with a space faring budget and somehow even fewer morals on how they solve problems
@@Sarindanvelor fair though ONI did experiment with the flood, and try to frame the Master Chief of all people for the killing of a Sangheli delegation when in actuality it was insurgents unhappy with the peace talks
You ought to check out the dieselpunk mechs of Iron Harvest
Sure, go for it. Do a full series about the UNSC's issues and problems. This I would love to see!
Are you planning to include the hover tanks from David Drake's Hammers Slammer's novels when you do the hover vehicles?
The pelican is the only halo vehicle design i like.
The rest are dogshit
when ya look at the bigger picture, ya gotta look at the budget and how much manpower they can muster... while yes you had the automated turret vehicles, they were very expensive to produce and program and add the training, they just too much time to get 1 out on the field and ready to fight while the warthog could be mass produced and have people trained much quicker and easier. fighting against the covenant, it was all about how fast can you deploy to counter them to buy civilians time to escape. automated vehicles took to much time and thats about it
well for spartans none of this matters so its inconsequential
Nah the halo 3 scarab was awesome. Idc what some sweaty nerd says
You'd be sweaty too if you spent as much time as me jumping to conclusions and running around the point
my copium for halo having bad vehicles (not counting 343s stupidity) is that they didn't put a lot of effort into the ground forces during the insurrection because they were doing ok with just lots of ships and were sol when an actual threat showed up
This lore justifies this, unlike 343 crap games
YEAH, WE DO KNOW IT, BUT WE LOVE IT, BECAUSE WE ARE JUST AS INSANE AS THE VEHICLE DESIGNS; I HOPE YOU'RE PUTTING ON A FAÇADE OF BEING UNABLE TO ENJOY SOMETHING IF IT'S UNREALISTIC, AND IF YOU ARE JUST PUTTING ON A FAÇADE THEN POWER TO YOU, BUT IF YOU'RE GENUINELY BUTTHURT BY THINGS LIKE VEHICLE DESIGN BEING UNREALISTIC, THEN I AM TRULY SORRY FOR YOU. BEING ABLE TO ENJOY THINGS REGARDLESS OF THE NATURE OF THEIR INHERENT IRREALITY IS TRULY BADASS! PEACE ON EARTH BROTHER, A NICE VIDEO REGARDLESS!
My brother in christ. The whole point of the channel is a joke. Dont take everything so seriously.
@@atankersview TOUCHÉ GOOD SIR, QUITE FRANKLY IT'S HARD TO TELL. PEACE ON EARTH, STAY BADASS.
2:50
Dat eassssss...
6:22
Well the Scorpion only needs 1 man to drive the thing and fire the main gun at the same time (instead of a full crew like most tanks), but if I were to amend the scorpion at a glance…
⚪️I’d make sure the machine gun is built into the tank turret again
⚪️Add defensive measures to the scorpion that have become widespread in real tanks since CE
⚪️Maybe increase the size of the chassis to accommodate holding more troops inside (While allowing for single or two man control.) Maybe take the machine gun from the top *NEXT TO THE TANK TURRET) and mount them at a 45 degree angle at each corner of the tank, where they’re remotely controlled by the crew inside. (Anti-Infantry capability becomes _especially_ important when you have to factor in the possibility of a sudden flood outbreak.)
⚪️With post-war advances in UNSC tech derived from reverse engineering covenant and forerunner tech, perhaps energy shields and a hover system can be employed. Speed the tank up while negating most rough terrain and all that.
2 points 1) Yes I really want to seemthat full break down it would be hilarious 2) It takes something to beat 40k with impractical vehicles, especially as we were just cursed with the abomination that is the Rogal Dorn and its nipple guns (shouldn't it of been named the Magnus?) IM genuinely impressed Halo!
The rogal dorn was designed by dr. Evil
He's right he is cute with his little helmet and armor😂
Yeah, Halo vehicles are pretty silly and stupid, but they are really cool in the games. Realism means nothing in fiction as the "rule of cool" trumps all. And the Scarab is a mining platform first, not an assault platform, so it's design faults are only just justified.
Please do more rants though, this was pretty funny and enjoyable to watch.
Halo vehicles are great!
As long as you don't mind getting shot the second you enter weapons range.
I’d love to hear your thoughts about the military vehicles from the fallout franchise