I think the moment they realized hell is not only real but occupied by 4 dark gods, the tyranids and orks exist they'd commit suicide at the thought of the fate that awaits them. Being part of the imperium is their only chance of survival ironically enough. And girlyman might even embrace their aliens if they prove to be more trust worthy than 40ks.
@GrimdarkTavern I'm not convinced. The main reason humans act that way is because every xenos is a threat, backstabber, and work against humans survival. The federation aliens aren't typically like that. And never to the same degree of enslaving humans at their lowest and defenses state. So I think Big E the person would actually form an alliance with the federation. Which would help both groups. The federation would gain an insanely powerful war like ally. And the imperium would gain the science, research, and more upbeat allies in the federation. I honestly think they'd get on very well.
@@NeiasaurusCreations I'd agree to this. The adeptus mechanicus' views are tolerated in the imperium due to the importance they hold in creating war machines. If it wasn't for that, they would have been labelled heretics. The federation exceeds the Imperium in Research and Development, probably THE most important thing the imperium lost. This could be seen as an asset, and could be included into the imperium as none-heretical as it serves mankind survival. The federation are Human, and not tainted by Chaos. To the Imperium this would be an Ally, as long as they comply.
"Captain's log: We have encountered a species which refer to themselves as the 'Droo-kari' who have generously agreed to a diplomatic meeting. They seem very eager to meet us."
this is the insidious racism of startrek. assuming every culture, let alone alien culture, would respect let alone aspire to upper-middle class american ideas of ball room socailism.
Praise the Omnissiah. We are the Borg you will adapt to service us. We serve the Omnissiah. Resistance is futile. You will be purged corrupted Heretics. Your biological distinctiveness will be added to the collective. Prepare for exterminatus unclean machine spirits. ect.. ect .. goes on for like 10 minutes.
@IronWarhorsesFun 1. Star Wars uses Proton torpedoes. Post is talking Star Trek, which uses Photon torpedoes. Different warhead materials and different yield capabilities. 2. 2 protons were needed to enter the Death Star's weak point to blow it up.
@@alexspencer5926 yeah that weak point that intentionally had a straight path all the way to the battle stations reactor core? wouldn't have blown up if that wasn't there. (plus you needed the mystical force to even be able to pull it off without getting blasted.) star fleet wouldn't even be able to engage the death star since its ENTIRE surface was absolutely covered in capital ship grade turbo laser turrets & the planetary grade shields it had.
@@GHOSTSTALKER90 use forcefields and flood the deck with various gases until something works and there numerous ways to stop a boarding party from being too dangerous. also if you had a really evil captain you could just transport them into space or if your close enough a sun. a klingon ship would be hard everybody is armed and klingons have supposedly superior biology to humans.
@@Cavscout5096and that every federation crewman has a marine disintegration ray (aka phaser). The marines would kick ass in melee, but they’d never get there.
I say the biggest difference is 40k is able and WILLING to blow up planets. Not as often as memes make it out to be, but they would absolutely do it as a show of force to prove they are not fucking around.
I mean the federation would likely take offense, but I doubt they'd cower in abject defeat at such devastation either. I'm fairly certain that universes has defensive measures against planet destroying weapons albeit maybe not in a ready supply.
@@starburst98 remember in generations the USS enterprise encounter the tech to oneshot a sun. They had the tech to "destroy" a planet atleast since wrath. The fact that they never used it is because the other races don't do it either because of MAD. And plot reasons. And since in new trek the ufp can beam to other star systems they could just blow up planets from home. Like the nekrons.
@@stevehagen9804 "Don’t forget, Captain Sisko used a species-specific virus bomb to end a fight with the Marquis in a few minutes because he was mad." That's a good point. I'd also add sterilizing planets of all life isn't a new thing to Trek. General order 24 has been a thing since the 23rd century and a random Klingon ship once burned an entire world just to destroy the breadcrumb trail message hidden in said life's DNA. And while not super common both the Federation and the Dominion have exploded stars before. So blowing up a world isn't, in and of itself, likely to make the Federation curl up into a ball.
making comparisons with the Star Trek universe is always difficult for many reasons starting from the fact that technologies increase or decrease their power based on the usefulness of the plot vice versa in other narrative universes the power is quite "stable". It is quite mind-blowing that a technology as common as a torpedo has the power of 700 megatons but when the Dominion attacks Earth the Fleet Headquarters is simply in ruins instead of having a huge glassed-in parking lot from California to Texas.
@@atankersview given the dominion's proclivities there is no good reason to think they would dial it back. and there is no way it doesn't hit with enough antimatter to level that city and then some.
Well comparing it to things in 40k, like 200-or-so gigaton torpedoes it still seems a little on the smaller side, even discounting the visual anachronisms in the source material.
there is an actual lore reason for this, the photon torpedos use matter-antimatter reactions to generate an explosion, this can be changed at will. If they wanted to glass the planet they would have.
Id imagine the fate of the federation in m42 would be similar to the Tau. Basically, as long as the federation doesn't start shit too much, the imperium has too many other problems to solve to agnoledge the federations existance
The environment will be more dangerous short and medium term. They’ll have to speed run their own Age of Strife, while being lower on the tech tree than humans were in 40k. The Imperium doesn’t use AI for very valid reasons.
@@AlsadsajsAlsadsajs-vl7th I think one of the extremely major differences between the federation and Dark Age humanity is the “relatively” consistent moral compass. The AI were used as slave class labor and were horribly abused by humanity as a whole. The federation is far more likely to subscribe to a more ethical approach to AI, and we actually see the conclusion of such debates in the Trial of Data. The implications of ignoring the sentience of AI has been touched on and overcome. Oh I should also mention that I approach that topic from the perspective of one of the key events that led to the Age of Strife.
@@cesarfortson8245 The AI uprising in 40K is due to Gods messing whit things and not in how they where treated i dont think the Federation has God magic antivirus installed
Star Trek: “Captain, there’s an alien ship firing at us!” *”Hailing frequencies, Mr Crusher.”* 40K: “Captain, there’s an alien-“ *”Exterminatus! Fire cyclonic torpedoes.”*
the amusing thing is the comparison is pretty redudant, in that unless the federation are literally drop right into a active sector the imperium isnt even likly to know they exist. Its canon that they lose entire subsectors and even sectors every decade due to misfiled paperwork. they are constantly losing and rediscovering world on a daily basis.
@@charlebrownga i all honesty i really wouldnt want to be the federation even if they didnt find the imperium. As it doesnt really matter who or where you are in the 40k universe it makes the evil-startrek universes look like playschool. Even the good guys are brainwashing naive idiots. Id give good odds some good natured scientist would disvocer the warp decided its a nice place to explorer and doom everyone well before the imperium turns up to exterminatus the remains.
You forgot that in that spot where you dropped the federation into wh40k, they'd still have to deal with the tau and the orks BEFORE meeting the imperium
@@atankersview still have to deal with necrons & nids since they are in the path of some hive fleets, & the federations placement puts them directly on top of some necron dynasties (halo stars). (they really don't like younger races on their property, & answer trespasses with wars of annihilation)
@@rolypoly4920 they would be until the Feds find out about the Vespids mind control helmets, the chemical sterilisation of Humans living within the T'au empire, the Kroots canabal habits etc etc
And just as always Tzeentch is gonna take credit for transporting the UFP to the 40k galaxy even though he probably had fuck all to do with it. Just as planned.
Star Fleet to the Master O’ Plans, the Klingons to Khorn, the Borg to Nurgle, the Romulans to Slannesh, Easy pickings for the warp entities. Imagine the Vulcans and Betazoids…. Un shielded psychic peoples? Food for demons.
Q: "Uh uh. We don't do that here." *Snaps his fingers and the Federation is restored back to their reality with no clear memory of Tzeentch while Q just slaps Tzeentch sending him screeching back to his library.* "Go back to interpreting the visions of your bumbling servant Kairos Fateweaver you 1 dimensional uninteresting mind of singular desire and no interesting character or freewill of your own."
@@JohnLevi-t1w Yeah….. apparently you never heard of the civil war they had or that whole non interference thing they thought of afterwards. The Q seem omnipotent by trek standards and even there they are not omnipotent or even immortal actually. It gets better, Orikan and Trazen can play with time as readily and easily as any Q ever could. The scary part? They are nowhere near the top tier power of the Necrons. Furthermore, given the extra dimensional nature of the warp I doubt the Q would have any influence over the immaterium. The Q might be quite a threat to even greater demons. Next to a warp god………. Yeah. Then we might discuss the orcs. If enough believe Q are just puny hummies, they ARE JUST PUNY HUMMIES! Look, I like trek. Militarily speaking the trek universe is kinda sad. The average battle fleet (and I mean battle fleet not a task force) could body the alpha quadrant by itself. The 24th century would be like a training exercise compared to war in the grim darkness. There just not comparable. Look how traumatized Star fleet was by “the quickening”, Wolf 359, and a little real ground combat on a backwater. Let them watch an extra dimensional being literally tear their friend a new @$$ hole before walking out that now gaping sphincter with some friends who just wanna rape everything with claw hands. For gods sake the Cadians literally kept fighting on a planet literally cracking apart under their feet. The Alpha quadrant was emotionally scarred by Cardassia’s well earned bombardment. The average light cruiser would have just virus bombed them from orbit. The sheer low value of life alone to the grim darkness would shock anyone from the alpha quadrant.
@@mikewaterfield3599 You do realize I am joking here right? No need to make a fight over it however I never once said the Q are omnipotent however their abilities to manipulate the universe and time is something they can do casually and I have no idea why you want to bring in outliers that talk more about the cultures within the Imperium itself rather then actual argument of power. Compared to the C'Tan Q can casual manipulate reality far easier on a greater scale without needed advanced tools C'Tan often use like the Breath of the gods. Frankly the Warp is overrated and isn't that special. Mentioning ships in this argument are meaningless to associate to independent cosmic beings who snap their fingers and reality is different without the the rituals, beliefs, and warp souls the Chaos gods feed upon to sustain themselves. Different setting different circumstances and cosmic rules and obstacles with a different worldbuilding and attitude and nation building with different capabilities and detriments. Star Trek and Warhammer 40k are not the same and neither is Warhammer 40k the same as Xeelee Sequence nor is Xeelee Sequence or A Fire Upon the Deep. That would be a false equivalency. I ain't here to argue that the Q are hyperversal or massively complex multiversal no I'm just joking.
_"Oh my oh my oh my, Jean Luc. What kind of mess did you get yourself into this time? The Imperium? Really? DID YOU KNOW IT IS RUN BY AN ANCIENT RULER COMPLETELY OUT OF HIS MIND?? You know what would be really fun? Put on your best Napoleonic era uniform and let's go visit him in his chambers."_ *snaps fingers *
Next second: Q was irrevertably evaporated by a tremendous galaxy splitting warpstorm randomly farted by THE EMPEROR of Mankind. And Jean-Luc "Locutus" Picard got himself enlisted as an expolrator in the Adeptus Mechanicus cult.
@@МихаилРозов-ю9п Is this _before_ or _after_ a platoon of psykers turn Picard's brain into melted ice cream as twelve custodes beat beat him to death?
pretty sure the energy output and radioactive heat of the modern 42nd millenium throne room would be enough to kill Picard unarmored in seconds, and that Q guy? i imagine his powers would be badly disrupted by the warp and the emperors psychic emanations. Star trek has no equivalent for the warp or warp powers, it would rot the minds of their telepaths and ascended beings easily.
About the teleporters, I would argue that imperial teleporters could Bypass federation shields since they utilize the Warp, but I don't think space marines would be of to much use as a boarding party because federation ships have smaller corridors, Tempestor scions would be better suited for the task
@@wolfoffenris9951 I was thinking the same thing..... Red shirt simultaneously pisses and shits himself instantaneously - unable to fully comprehend the grand scale, the heavily-armed horror, the walking cathedral of worship covered in arms of all sizes and types with void shields occasionally flickering in bright, dancing arcs and spheres of light from deflected incoming fire, and the complete cyber-mechanical majesty of one of the Omnissiah's great children of war..... an Imperator-class Titan.
@@stemill1569 dude, yes, that's the TAU response to them basically, titans do have their defenses so may be a bit harder to take down, but even ignoring that you can not ignore their effect on morale
I enjoyed this vid, even if it was limited in details. Which is fine for YT formats. Quick things to point out: SHIELDS: Imperium uses void shields, which are far superior to energy shields (which they also have, but don't use for tactical reasons in void battle because they are not useful in 40K) since void shields literally shunts energy and mass into the warp. They can be overloaded, but frequency changes which is a major thing in ST is not a thing in 40k. To point out just how powerful the shields are, they are considered the most advanced shield system in the entire setting, which is due to them being made in the dark age of technology (DAOT) or golden age, which is several thousands of years older than ST tech. Teleportation only works against void shields if you can teleport using warp tech - which ST does not have. Energy shields on the other hand does not stop trans dimensional teleportation - which is what warp teleportation is. Its also worth mentioning that the warships of the Imperium usually have several void shields layered. HULLS: The Imperiums ships have meters thick super dense armor, so robust that ramming is a used tactic in which the attacking ships just assumes it will smash through anything it faces. Which they most often also do. The Federation has paper thin armor that is shown time and time again to shred against almost anything that gets through the shields. SPEED: While people assume the Imperium has slow and lumbering ships, that's completely wrong. In lore its been stated that Imperial Battleships - which are around 10km long behemoths - reaches 0.7 and in some cases even 0.75 C , which is 70- 75% of light speed. RANGE: Imperial doctrine states that striking an unaware enemy with lances from half a system away is prudent - and seeing as battles are fought from planets away and while closing distance one can assume that ST, that fight in super close ranges would be ill prepared to fight enemies that shoot them with laser-particle beam weapons from light minutes away. Then it just gets worse and worse the closer the ships get as that lets the Imperials use macro weaponry and saturate regions of space with kinetic kill vehicles. And that's if they don't just use a Nova cannon to blow vast areas up. NUMBERS: - not counting everything else, the fact that the Federation only ever had a land army of 50k in size just kind of makes a joke of the scale of things. The Imperium has a standing army of a minimum of 500 trillion, so vast (and this is only the Astra Militarum) that they themselves don't know how big it is. Loosing billions of men is nothing to the Imperium and could be considered a clerical error for all they care. To put it into perspective, the Imperium has about as many Hive worlds, each with populations in the hundreds of billions up to the trillions, as there are soldiers in the Federation. :P While the Federation can churn out ships faster, seeing as they are incredibly small, not even considered escorts to the Imperium, thats on a per ship level. Yes it might take a 100 years to build a battleship that dwarfs anything the Federation has, but the Imperium has untold numbers of ship yards, even tens of thousands of planets called Forge Worlds that work on thousands of such ships at once. Basically, the Imperium does not work with ship numbers in the hundreds of even thousands, but in the millions and billions.
all 40k ships can, with enough time, increase in speed to crazy speeds, so long as there isnt debree to damage them going soo fast, but it takes a LONG time to speed up that much, and at those speeds, their ability to slow down or turn is very bad. ST beats them in manueverability easily.
@@Vihara2 maneuverability is not really a requirement for imperium vessels since they are so heavily armored & shielded. (while being covered in guns in every direction) its like a gnat biting an elephant, it has to bite millions (way more then that I'm certain) of times to kill the elephant, yet the elephant only has to hit the gnat once to kill it.
@@Quark214 vect and dark eldar would probably have a blast raiding federation space being able to take millions if not billions of slaves without much of an issue
Well, you judge the federation naive. You never remember that their diplomatic service is home tome of the most vile, evil, ruthless and effective hagglers in that universe.
As a Perpetual, the Emperor was probably a Starfleet admiral back in the day. After having a telepathic chat with his old friends, He sends them back to avoid timeline shenanigans. Maybe asks for some repl... STCs as parting gift.
Yeah as long as the infantry doesn't get hit by phasers on their highest setting it's an easy fight. Note on highest setting the target is disintegrated instantly. Like being shot by antimatter. This would also apply to Astartes. With that said it's not going to be enough for Star Trek to have a real chance at beating the Imperium. Though teleporting a quantum bomb onto an Imperial ship is possible. Numbers still count which I think Star Trek fans forget.
@@John2r1 Another problem is that for IoM warcrimes are standard operating procedure. The 1st, 2nd and 3rd Astarte's assault teams get taken out and then a 4th team teleports in with a librarian who holds up a shield just long enough for the squad to detonate a nuclear bomb.
@louiscypher4186 They generally don't use nukes. More like a vortex bomb. Also I'm not sure that the Phasers are affected by psychic energy. Though just handing out some Iron Halos or figuring out how to make a drop shield to put in front of them would work well enough. I'm not saying that the Imperium can't figure out a way to take out a ship. I'm saying it's not going to be as easy as Astartes teleports onto ship and charges a line of mostly humans with Phasers and magically wins due to plot armor.
The federation would basically be the less durable Necrons in 40k. Not to mention what happens when the federation starts have random psykers appearing in their population? One second you see a red shirt next second you see a portal to the warp and demons coming out. It’s the Age of Strife all over again
@@John2r1 realistically phasers won't matter much against astartes even tho they can disintegrate them. Space Marines are multitudes faster than regular humans and their reaction times are in the milliseconds. There's been multiple accounts of them being able to bullet time or feats just below bullet time. Any engagement federation troops have against astartes wouldn't be close just from the speed and reaction time alone, not to mention iron halos could offer even more protection.
@@ghkevilhd44 yes and no, it's basically what the imperium would consider a perfect STC able to make anything it has specs for without the obvious ai stcs have.
Hmm... Let's see, very friendly spaceships vs a walking church, church on a ship and nuns with guns... I think I'm gonna go with the church on this one.
One little factor about the Emperor . He's not 14ft tall. There was a Psychic Blank who saw him once who described him as just an average man. Not some kind of glowing giant but a man. The variations of his appearance is due to his psychic projections of himself.
I mean Magnus has been show the ability to not just project a psychic image of himself but also change his physical power with the warp. So big E being the super duper giga alpha + Psyker I dont find it unreadable to believe he just changed his from to be a 14 foot tall giga chad. also we have pieces of his armor and they are MASSIVE. so I think its more likely the blank that saw him was also influenced to a degree since even blanks are no immune to super powerful psykers.
@@Loremaster28 Actually they are to an extent immune to psychic influence. So it's actually possible that the Emperor didn't change anything about himself from his usual psychic projection and yet the Blank saw the truth of his physical form. Also the armor worn by the Emperor was power armor not normal body armor. The same writers and people who claim the Emperor to be a 14 ft tall giant are the same ones that claim Space Marines are 9ft plus tall when there are sources of them being as short as 6 ft 11in tall. Literally there are people who claim every Astartes is the same height as the Tybros the Red Wake in debates. It's more likely that the average man in appearence wasn't average height but wasn't 14 ft tall either. Considering the Emperor is sitting on his throne unarmored. Armored in power armor befitting his station in society as Emperor he could easily be 14 ft tall.
@@John2r1 that most likely wasn’t his true form as even blanks can be over powered by a big enough psyker like the emperor who also projects himself to look like whatever one would believe him to look like
@@SeanoMitchell "@sonofccn lol power armor vs red shirts. Yeah.... yeah...... one Squad of Kreig shock troops win" Way to miss the point in favor of fanboyism. I hate to break it to you but those Krieg shock troops would only win if the author willed it just like the author could have the Krieg troops all beamed up, disarmed and placed in a holding cell. So you like 40K? Great. Its a fun universe even if I prefer Warhammer fantasy. Same if you think the Imperium would beat the Federation. We're all entitled to our opinions but don't mistake that as some objective truth because neither side is remotely consistent.
Knowing Star Trek, they would figure out that Imperium ships use this dimension called "The Warp" for star travel, then develop some deflector dish modification that shuts off the ability to access it. Then they realize that they accidentally discovered a way to shut off access to the Warp completely, both ways, permanently on a galactic scale. Like no more FTL, no more psychics, even the Chaos Gods would wither and die. Then they would argue forever over whether its morally right to do it because so much of the galaxy's culture is based on the Warp. Even as they are being attacked by them.
Right up until Chaos affects their AI computers which would go bonkers and start turning the life support systems off on their ships which would lead to them being forced to now use that really powerful tech which in turn would badly hamper all other efforts given just how AI dependent they are in both ship control AND research. The UFP would not just have to survive the Imperium but everything else in the galaxy with them which would include chaos which is the reason AI in the Golden Age of Mankind rebelled. Hell to this day in 40k you can't make AI as it always decides killing all organic life is the choice to make moments after you turn it on.
@@taliawtf6944 My in-depth 40K lore knowledge is a bit rusty, but I don't recall advanced computers/AI automatically going insane due to Chaos. The Tau have them and never have a problem that I can remember.
The thing is... if you actually completely cut off access to the warp both ways... That means all the dead souls cant pass on to the warp when they die... forcing them to accumulate in real-space.... triggering an en-masse zombie apocalypse because Nobody gets to die anymore. The necrons would become the only side able to win because A: they dont have souls and B: they have weapons that completely disintegrate their target, leaving no corpse to zombify. Federation still loses of course.
We actually have a in universe example of what happens when reality is cut off from the warp. There is a section of space known as the Pariah Nexus a place where the necrons have set up technology that cuts reality off from the warp. The problem is is that human souls exist within the warp even while they are alive and having ones connection severed from the warp causes something called The Stilling. You gradually loose all motivation and will until eventually you fall into a catatonic state and die. Essentially cutting the galaxy off from the warp will kill every living thing in the galaxy since reality and the warp are two sides of the same coin where one cannot properly function without the other.
@@accywacky2699 it would be like firing the Halo array from Halo. All organic life that possess a soul would shrivel up and die and it would be a slow death.
One consideration ro remember is the mechanicus, if they decide that tech heresy is being conducted nothing is off the table fir dealing with starfleet ships and a techpriest could probably sweet talk a federation computer to just beam the entire crew into the void. On the other hand if the mechanicus deams starfleet tech as something worthy of preservation they would severy hamstring the imperium to the point if not trying to destroy Starfleet ships but tather trying to board and seize them
The mechanicus's reaction would be an extreme political factor, however, they would be unable to affect the federation's technology. The mechanicus cling to the faded knowledge of humanity's once great technologies, holding fragments of technical knowledge within a labyrinth of bureaucracy and superstition. The machine spirits they believe they convene with are nothing more than the interfaces and inbuilt machinery of the machines they are now impotent to understand. AI's like the federation's computers have been shown to an actively despise the mechanicus. If anything, the federation may be able to enact electronic warfare against the haphazardly built systems the mechanicus no longer understand.
true, if the mechanicum see the federation as a faction worth investigating, they will quickly assemble a cruishing fleet of very advanced mechanicus ships, with weapons imperial vessels do not have, and would wreck the federations s**t. A sufficiently talented and prepared mechanicus Lord would be able to mentally overpower most AI or internal ship security on any ST vessel without much issue.
@mrfigaloopierre9610 Imperium is still in its current degraded state more advance then the Federation the Tech Priests of Mars also speak the Language of the Machine something the Federation would have no idea about and lastly people forget as soon as you enter the 40K universe the rules of the game are out the window there are 4 Techno godz in 40K all of them would jump on this new AI and corrupt the hell out of it
It all depends on whose lawn the feds land and if the Talk no Jutsu is possible. Vs Tau - Federation lives, Eldar - might live, Nids - everything dies, Orks - smashed, D Eldar - smashed in a different way, Imps - burned, Necrons - atomized or on a display shelf, Chaos - on a spike (the impaled orifice may differ depending on who they meet). Also correct me if I'm wrong, fans of both universes, but I'm pretty sure a single librarian would wipe any ST ship by himself. We can't really compare them, like Dora the Explorer vs any Rogue Trader. Also. I'd love to read some stories about a 40k ship being farted out through Warp into ST universe. That would be fun.
The Federation has basically already befriended the elder, and they probably wouldn't have to really fight the Orks or the Tyrannies (it isn't very fun to. get nuked from several light years away). They would probably lose to the Necrons pretty quickly, but their technology would certainly give the Necrons something to think about. Also, if someone comes on board a ST ship, they would probably just get locked in by force fields, then destroyed by a couple of phasers.
@mrfigaloopierre9610the thing is, the Asuryani (Craftworld Eldar, what most just call Eldar) don't care about any species but their own. The INSTANT they think the Federation can't help them, the Federation is getting dragged into the Webway for the Drukhari to feast on. And consider how arrogant the Aeldari are, that'll be very quick
@@sev1120 The Federation is far too dangerous for the Drukhari to mess with (as compared to say, the Imperium). The craft world Eldar, while they aren't easy to get along with, given that the Federation was able to ally with the Klingons; diplomatically speaking, the Eldar are light work.
@mrfigaloopierre9610 Klingons are child's play compared to the Eldar. The Aeldari will ONLY do something if it's in their best interest, and they can see into the future. Plus, something to note about Drukhari is that Custodes sometimes have difficulty keeping eyes on the slippery bastards. And it doesn't matter how good their army is, the Drukhari will attack their civilian population centers and leave before reprisal can be delivered
Simple math. During Leviathans attack on the Blood Angels the combined chapters brought well over 100,000 ships, and their full compliments, to the fight. During the Dominion War Starfleet undertook a massive upgrade by adding a whopping 14,000 ships. Underwhelming is a very inadequate word. In an all out fight Starfleet would fall very quickly with the Imperium suffering minor losses.
@playlistnor Incorrect, 40k ships hit significantly harder than fed ships and the 40k ships can take a massive beating from their own weapons, meanwhile fed "capital" ships can get blown up by debris that came from a cruiser, which would be the same size as the MANY macro shells being fired towards them, which hit in the multi gigaton range wheras photon torpedoes barely push 1 gigaton, so the flying saucers are actually the joke, and you talk about cracking planets like that's not something the imperium does on a Tuesday, ever heard of a cyclonic torpedo?
Yeah they hear about how it takes decades if not centuries for the imperium to build ships and act like they have few of them when not only they have a sh*tton of warships but due to their rugged and robust construction as long as the warship wasn't hit at point blank range by a nova cannon or the plasma reactor exploded the ship can be rebuilt
@@playlistnor And yet they never do. Don't fool yozrself. Starzrek just says all these things, but theecweapons can't do any of it. That's why the dominion didn't glas starfleet command. It's because theycouldn't, because the startrek torpedos are comparable to tacktical nules, at BEST. Usualy more lke a normal 500kg planebomb
You need to consider ship type, the Imperium uses ships only effective at relatively close ranges, the photon torpedos of federation ships would be able to hit imperium vessels far outside their range.
Id say its going to depend on whether or not you believe startrek official spoken lore in dialogue or whats actually born out on screen or in the games. If you believe official spoken lore in dialogue. A single starfleet officer with a hand phasor solos an entire chapter of space marines without taking a scratch, such is the awsome power of the mk2 hand phaser and federation shield belt. If you believe the games, starfleet ground tactical capabilities are approximately on par with modern infantry, only carrying less gear. If you believe on screen representation starfleet ground tactical capabilities are approximately on par with napoleonic era irregular skirmishers. And that carries over to basically all aspects of federation capabilities. Realistically, imperium of man overlooks the federations presence for 6000 years due to the inefficiencies of the beurocratic process and other more pressing concerns within the imperiums territory Meanwhile the federation is forced to adapt to the new setting as it explores the galaxy and weathers small scale attacks from other 40k factions and cultural infiltration from the tau empire. If the federation is able to weather these environmental factors it will have evolved to point that it is unrecognisable as the federation we see in startrek. 🤔
I gotta disagree here, the sheer violence scale of 40k compared to the warfare of Trek is a massive disparity. The mk2 and personal shields even in Trek’s best light just don’t compare to something like the Necron’s weaponry, and the space marines have handedly delt with Necron before. It’s also to note that even though the federation are some of the best trained explorers in scifi, they are naval engineers and scientists primarily, most of which preform irreplaceable positions on their assigned ships, meanwhile the imperiums basic infantry are completely expendable zelot fodder, any and every one of them has been traumatized into a murder-hungry trooper. Space marines meanwhile in their most mellow lore exceed all human standards significantly, even the strongest Klingon would be helplessly tossed around by a basic unspecialized marine. Even something like the borg would quickly become overwhelmed by the sheer amount of firepower that is par for 40k. Honestly the topic seems to be completely one sided, it’s like asking who would win a fight, scooby doo or Superman, they both share the topic of “classic cartoon characters” but they’re a completely separate setting and intensity. Trek is about the discovery and complications of space, 40k is about violent space war.
6000 years the Federation would be wiped out by Orks or Tyranids or Dark Eldar hell even an old Necron waking up would wipe them out the Imperium of man is a lot faster to react that people like to admit it might take them 10+ years to react but that is becose the Universe is on the brink of ending due to Tyranids right now
What. No. Even if they have better tech it's still manned by a normal person. And astarte is stronger, faster, waaay smarter, probably has 200+ years of war under their belt of the worst foes that the federations can't even imagine. And space marines can shake off wounds that would obliterate lesser men. So they might kill 1 or 2. But the bolter will explode them, the marines in melee with jetpack will tear them apart. An army would struggle against a company. Let alone a full chapter including tanks, artillery, air support. Marines have really no equal in star trek for the violence and raw power.
Much to my shagrin, I'll just point out how absurd what characters in the show have claimed phasers to be capable of. Though I will note that they are definitely not capable of this as if they could do everything characters claim they can do, most episodes where they're used would be resolved in under a minute. So, If what I can only assume is starfleet propaganda were true, a single starfleet officer could simply stand in the middle of a battle field, point their phaser to the sky, pull the trigger and vaporise, (or superheat) everything on the battlefield that isn't protected by void shields (or uses active electronic interference in the event said officer choose to use auto targeting instead of omnidirectional spray) Anything with void shields that survived would then be scanned, th phaser recalibrated then each target destroyed in turn by a single shot. Meanwhile, the officers' standard issue shield belt (offen not issued in 99.9% of actual deployments) would be capable of tanking anything short of a titans' main armourment. That said, they'd literally have no special defence vs. psyckers, so all bets are off if a psyker survives the opening salvo or makes the first move 🤔 Though again, I will stress there are precious few examples of a hand phasor actually being showcased using any one of those abilities, let alone in combination with each other. At best, it's usually inferred to have been used that way off screen. And I do agree, starfleet officers in general would not actually do this. ... but if you believe the hype about their college campus training, they are the best of the best of the best of THE BEST, have formidable combat abilities and are excellent tacticians that wouldn't hesitate to make the winning move when needed (despite hesitation to act being the signature move of active officers in the field) So when going up against these hypothetical supermen with their magic weapons, although many factions have x-factors to overcome, 40k would still have trouble doing so. this particular take on starfleet has been rolled back somewhat as the show slowly became more serialised, and writers realised making things OP like that creats long term story problems if the resolution to every scenario is always just one click of a button away, but the claims by characters in the show are still there, particularly in the earlier episodes of each series. to me, it just comes off as the brain washed rhetoric instilled in the minds of fresh recruits, not anything that should be taken seriously. As such a more realistic take is that a brash arrogant young officer steps onto the battlefield, having forgotten their shield belt, struggles to code their phasor correctly and is instantly disillusioned by the rudest of possible awakenings.
@src6339 Yeah it has to be propaganda. Cause everything we actually see suggest they're nowhere near capable of it. DS9 one of my favorites has an episode they're fighting dominion ground forces and they don't use this type of thing. Suggesting it's not capable of that. Or else why wouldn't they. The forces are maimed and nearly broken when Sysko shows up. But 40k? Were shown in lore, books, games what it's like. For instance a bolter is a rocket propelled rpg bullet capable of ripping into tanks. That thing hits a man they more or less are vaporized into a mist of blood and gore. And most sources show cases what a bolter can do to a mfer. So IDK. If you take the TV shows nothing any faction shows is even on parody with the humble lasgun. Which is actually a fairly high powered laser weapon that will melt holes the size of a fist through a mfer it hits. It only is a "joke" because what it's used to fight are typically enemies with high end armor and weapons like astarte power armor. But by itself is more deadly than what phasers are shown and used like in the series. With the very few exceptions they turn it to max and a person is turned to dust. But it's always an unarmormed person. Not a 7 to 9 foot talk super soldier in power armor aka a running tank that can hit speeds into the 200mph. So I kinda doubt it'd do more than leave an astartes really ticked off yoh left scorch marks on his shiny battle plates. So I guess it depends on the source. For me I take what the actual series show as priority. If it shows me star fleet shields are practically useless I get the idea that's how they are. Also could be a convo of theoretical potential versus what it actually does in the field. Kinda like what a theoretical tiger, panther or T34 can do versus how they actually perform in use. Sorta like the spec says X, but it really does Y because of a bunch of factors. So that could be an interesting convo. Maybe phasers can't do what they're claimed to be able to do to construction, field restrictions and factors that make it impractical or impossible to use like that in reality. Also side bar. The federation setting their weapons to stun in almost all encounters would get so many of them killed in a war. Cause if you try to stun a 3 ton walking tank of hatred and violence he's going to turn around and fire bolters at you if you're lucky. And nastier stuff like chemical weapons, plasma guns, voltike rifles, melta.. Or run at you with an assortment of brutal and insane melee weapons. You won't get a second shot. So the federation would have to stop being the federation and even than they'd still lose. Weight of numbers is the single most signficiant reason they have no hope. 18 legiond each at about 30,000 to 350,000 astartes per legion ramming down on you from every side and angel is just too much.
Which Transformers, becuase depending on version it could get messy (the UK unique Simon Furman comics alone got seriously messed up including a zombie robot city as cover to resurrect a plan to turn Cyberton itself into a mobile battlestation)
@@AAhmou especially if you manage to wake up what by any reasonable measure is the slumbering chaos god that formed the planet and the transformers rave beneath its surface (again depending on version)
“We have arrived and it is now that we preform our charge, in fealty to the God emperor our undying lord and by the grace of the golden thrown, I hereby sign your death warrant of the entire world, consigning a billion souls to oblivion. May the imperial justice account in all balance, the emperor protects.”
@@atankersview It's what Big E deserved for not taking Magnus aside, in private, after the Council of Nikaea and told him exactly WHY he needed all psychers to stop practicing warpcraft and sorcery. Had he done that, and had Magnus known exactly why it was so important, I don't think that Magnus would have made his mistake and would have found the next best way possible to warn his father.... even if it was by fucking carrier pigeon... and just hoped that his message made it in time.
That's the thing about many pro star trek fans. They talk about the theoretical ability of star trek ships, but their actual ability pales in comparison. For example, I have heard from some people that phasers would disintegrate Astartes and ships, except for the fact that there've been many times where phaser have hit unshielded ships and they only to take some damage.
id argue transporters would be the biggest potential factor. if they unaffected by void shields, just beam nukes everywhere like they do in Star Gate later on. but the whole mindset of the Federation is just incapable of fighting the kind of war it would take to fight the Imperium. Destroy a few dozen ships and their morale is done.
That's mostly due to plot convince. If the shows showed the true theoretical power of the weapons there wouldn't be any drama. Theoretically Trek weapons ain't no slouch, I think a more apt comparison would be with Wars, not 40k, due to a completely different style of universe and scale.
@@Max-hw7xl It is also possible that the shields in Star Trek are of no use against the teleportarium technology in WH40K. Which means that at the beginning of every battle a group of Astartes appears on the bridge of the ships or hundreds of Imperial Guards rampage through the ships.
@@sylviarohge4204 absolutely a possibility, tho given wh40k already has a massive advantage in my books, i was trying to think of something that could make the fights more even for the sake of discussion
Gotta say as some whose played way too much Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy and with a partner massively into Star Trek so have a pretty decent grounding I pretty much agree with you analysis, in M42 the Federation wont be facing the Imperium, it'll be facing the local Sub-Sector then Sector navies it's boardering, given the size and fire power disarity if a few sector fleets were massed it'd be a massacre, but they wouldnt be the odd patrol ship or flotilla could be over come and by the time the Sector fleet commands run it up to the next level of the layer response at the Segmentum fortress it could be years if not decades before a proper force could be mustered, if it was even bothered with as not being overtly aggressive the federations going to the bottom of Segmentum commands to do list, honestly by the time the reports cross Robbie G's desk I think he'd be more intrested in an alliance, the federation more closely resemble the empire he wants and by that point a few decades down the line I think they'd be building military assets to cope with the new reality, I'm not sure exactly what a Federation take on a Lunar Class Cruiser tonnage vessel would look like exactly, but I think it would be absolute nightmare fuel for anyone coming across one
That's even if papa Smurf even hears the call. Could be another more aggressive chapter that hears the call. By the time papa Smurf gets the call the other chapter would have wiped out the star fleet.
@OGDamnnation In all honesty post the Great Rift, simple truth is your average Space Marine chapter just has better things to do than go rampaging off after a non-hostile Tau'ish sized empire on the edge of tne galaxy, that at most would be responsible for the loss of a few boarder patrol ships. The way the layered defence works is the harder the Imperiums hit the wider and louder the call the harder the counter response hits back, here the Imperiums not been hit, so the reports are going to just go up the standard beuracy. So during a time period when you've got active invasions into Imperial Core worlds, deamons on Terra and rampaging 'Nids and Orks, the Federation is at the bottom of everyone's to do list. Besides 1 don't think a single Marine Chapter couldn't do the job, but 1,000 Marines isn't a lot, Chapter Fleets tend to be reasonable small and while the first few engagements would go very badly for Star Fleet, I'm sure they'd figure out to just use the 10 setting out the phasers pretty quickly and while an Imperial Fleet is well outside Starfleets capabilities, lone ships or small groups probably could be dealt with (though at high cost) so unless it is the Black Templars and their massive fleet complete with Gloriana class flagship even a single Chapter is a manageable threat (though beating a Marine Chapter will bump the Federation up the priority list) Now if the senario was moved a bit in time to say 900.M41 very different senario, no major threats and a whole star cluster appearing out of nowhere would be a big deal, (Post Great Rift that sort of weirdness is Tuesday) and it would suddenly be worth a whole lot of peoples time. Marine Chapters from all over would be flocking to this as well as half the fleets of Segmentum Pacificus. Federations a lot of new real estate (and can you imagine the Mechanius the second they heard about the techno-sorcery)
@johnneill9740 LOL, then no matter the state of the galaxy the Mechanius will launch the largest tech Crusade in history and no force in the universe can help the Federarion
True as long as the federation doesn't do something stupid which is highly unlikely, it'd be decades (maybe even a couple of centuries) away from being noticed and threatened by the larger Imperium. The problem is that by then the Federation would be busy fighting off Tyranids or Chaos who wouldn't miss the opportunity to take advantage of newcomers.
btw, during the Great Crusade they did add a human xenos empire that was very much based on the Federation as one of the many conquests, I think it was the Diasporex defeated by Fulgrim.
Yeah, they where super technologically advanced, and allied with a bunch of Xenos. Even so they just couldn't beat the overwhelming numbers and super soldiers. Not to mention those super soldiers are actively ten times smarter than you and have about a few hundred years of combat experience
If the enterprise got dropped into the 40k verse, the physics wouldn't match their universe. Their systems would immediately malfunction and their antimatter containment fields would shut down, causing them to explode in a nuclear fireball larger than any man made explosion we've ever seen on earth. So I'd count that as a win for the imperium.
Alternatively, if you dropped a 40k ship into Star Trek's world their silly space magic and FTL tech would do nothing and they'd just float powerlessly until dead XD
@@griffionwyvrus9063 I'm saying using a psychic mutant to open a realm that doesn't exist wouldn't do anything, that most of the space magic and Gods wouldn't exist in Star Trek so they'd be left with diesel punk looking monuments that do nothing XD
The Federation wouldn't even be a speed bump for the Imperium, the scale of the Imperium without having to deal with the Chaos and Xenos would wipe the floor with startrek without it being a footnote to the Imperium.
Exactly this, as fun as comparing the 2 are, it's a little like comparing Magellans Expedition to the US Pacific Fleet; both were created for very different purposes.
I think you are ignoring a number of things about the Federation in the first scenario. First, it's far more adaptable both mentally and technologically than the Imperium. If it's ships were unsuitable, they would design better ships. For example, look at the difference between the Galaxy class designed for peaceful exploration and the Sovereign which was designed for war. Self replicating minefields could be used to stop, destroy, or guide fleets into kill zones. The Federation's advantage has always been it's ability to adapt. You are also wrong when comparing maneuverability and speed of the ships. Federation ships are capable at least 1000g of acceleration with inertial compensators as opposed to 'several' g's of acceleration which is what I can find for the Imperium. That's literally two orders of magnitude more acceleration and maneuverability. Further, the impulse/warp drive system allows the Federation to ignore relativistic effects which the Imperial ships can't. To put that in context, it would be like an Abrams tank (45mph) trying to compete with an F-35 fighter plane (1200mph) in speed and maneuver... except that this F35 also has mastery over the low end of speed as well. Regarding weaponry... oh how wrong you are. I'm not going to debate the power of the directed energy weapons (phasers, lances, etc.), but the range differential is also an order of magnitude. The best range I can find for Imperial weapons is around 15000km; the technical specs for the Enterprise D (Picards first ship) put phasers at 300000km. The Federation can hit them from beyond their range to attack at will, without them ever being able to even fire back. You couldn't be more wrong regarding even normal photon torpedoes, much less the more powerful variants such as quantum torpedoes. The reason the Federation doesn't use point defense is that it's useless. Photon torpedoes are FTL weapons with a 2.5 million km range, meaning that they hit the Imperial ships before their sensors can even pick them up, much less target them with their point defense. Second, when push comes to shove they can simply put together cloaked fleets and obliterate every Imperium world within range with a single torpedo, as shown by Sisko when dealing with the Maquis. How many worlds can the Imperium afford to lose? Meanwhile, the Federation on a war footing would be deploying industrial scale replicators with a production rate the Imperium simply can't ever match. All of that said, the Imperium has it's advantages. It's FTL is faster (though I can't imagine that going through the warp blind would work out well for them), and it's ground combat abilities are at least as superior to the Federations ground forces as the Federations fleet is to the Imperiums. Further, the sheer number of worlds means that even their pathetic production rates add up in total to a level the Federation can't match. The Imperium is big enough to destroy the Federation, no doubt. But it's losses would be catastrophic, and it's very likely that the Federation would make ark ships taking people and tech to safety, where they would rebuild and come back on a crusade of their own that would obliterate the Imperium within no more than a few hundred years. The last thing is this: The Federation has a Pandora's box of things they choose not to use for the most part. Nanotech, phase cloaks, time travel, sentient AI... the Imperium pushes them too far that box gets opened and everybody is screwed.
Ground troops sent used, a federation ship would simply drop a photo torpedo to crack the planet and leave. A phaser would also just ignore power armor in general, if it doesn't matter what your armor is made of when the atoms that make it up are ripped apart.
@Princess_Celestia_ For a phaser, the marine might as well be unarmored. That is forgetting the fact that the Federation typically doesn't even bother with ground engagements.
Imperium: i require multiple ships to make a planet uninhabitable. Star Trek: Constitution class sits above the planet for five minutes and cracks planet with phasers alone.
Star Trek: Needs a whole squad of their best men and women to take down one normal guy who just happens to have some martial skill. They get captured, escape, captured again, escape, captured again, talk for 2 episodes, released and then captured again while suffering 50% casualties before being teleported back to their ship where they make a star log acting like it was a successful mission even though the one guy still got away because they need him to be a villain in the next season where he remarkably becomes a good guy for one episode before betraying them all and the capture cycle begins again. Imperium: One Grey Knight survives hundreds of years in a nightmare dimension where reality is only subject to the whims of literal gods, slays the demi-gods who are considered to be nearly all-powerful within this realm, makes a general nuisance of himself to said all powerful gods for giggles and remains untouched by its corruption.
Only problem is if bothering to board their ships if they actually have a pair of balls and actually get a shot off. Those phasers and phaser rifle on high setting disintegrate targets instantly. Basically just don't get hit and your good. lol. I do find the video going with the 8ft Astartes to be funny since not everyone wears Terminator armor. At least not in the 42nd Millennia. And there are 7ft tall Astartes. Average being 7.6ft tall. But in any case not being hit without a Iron Halo on is a good ideal. Not that the first Astartes that gets disintegrated is going to stop the one behind him from puting a 19mm rocket propelled grenade in a security guards mouth.
@@John2r1 Don't those only work if they hit flash and biological material? Whenever Space Marines board a craft, they're completely armored (unless they're space wolves but space wolves are dumb) So I don't really see the thing working if it can't get past the armor
1. Where did the map at 2:26 come from? Cuz Im very certain that its canon that the entirety of "explored" space, or space that has been claimed by major powers, is FAR less than is shown. As in, most of the political borders shown should be cut by 2/3 to 3/4 and shoved closer to the Alpha-Beta Quadrant border. 2. Assuming that its canon, Star Trek Online's slipspace drives would be a gamechanger for Starfleet vessels. In the speech made at its unveiling to the public, the then-Federation president said "From Earth to Bajor in a week" or something to that effect. Manageable reinforcement routes and supply lines. 3. Star Trek warp drive goes; warp core generates energy, warp nacelles focus and channel energy, energy projected around ship, ship enters subspace, ship now in FTL. But if subspace can be compared to 40k Warp, then Fed ships are doing 40k's equivalent of warp jumps without either psyker assistance or Gellar Fields. Basically suicide by Warhammer standards, but if they can still do Warp jumps in 40k without psykers or Gellar fields while in 40k space, they basically have the Holy Grail of FTL travel for the Imperium. 4. Everyone forgets that while Starfleet can do combat, basically being the Federation Navy, Starfleet itself doesnt view itself as a military branch. Legally speaking, Starfleet is the Federation equivalent of every space agency on the planet joining together as one company, then being incorporated into NATO assets. Or more simply, NASA replacing US Space Force. Explorers first, THEN fighters IF NEEDED. If they have any formal military training, it's reserved for personnel who are being told to go on missions that require specific skillsets, THEN being retrained into those skills prior to deployment.
@@atankersview 10:30 That Trek galaxy map is not from Memory Alpha. It says at the top it's from Unity One, which is a non-canon fan fiction series and not accurate at all. The Federation is stated in canon to only span around 8,000 light years, which would make it far smaller than what is shown on that fan created map (well over half that size.) The entirety of Federation space would comfortably fit inside the smallest Imperial Segmentum on the galaxy map.
@XD-sc4ix That was my point, but I'm doing this from my phone, and I can lose what I'm trying to type as I go. Also, I said "game changer," not "game winner." I acknowledged that slipspace is better than Starfleet's standard warp drive as an FTL drive crossing star systems, but not for crossing the galaxy. You COULD make multiple trips from a few systems over in about a week using slipspace, but using 40k's Warp drive during that same timeframe is just better for longer distances, comparatively
In a strategic sense the Imperium has a speed advantage. An Imperial ship can enter the Warp and be anywhere within days. As others have noted, a ST ship would take years to cross the same distance But in a tactical sense, the ST universe has the advantage. All major players in the ST universe have the ability to engage in combat at FTL (warp) speeds while still in realspace. WH40K ships would simply not be able to target, or even hit a target at Warp 2, while the ST ships can target at will. Trying to hit a Klingon Bird for Prey with a macrocannon would be like trying to hit an F-16 with a trebuchet. Devastating if it actually hit, but it is a REALLY big 'IF'. That said, an Imperial ship could enter the Warp, and be at a system that it would take an ST ship months to get to, and zero chance of the ST ship following. That strategic advantage would be short lived, as the Imperium would also have to deal with the Federation's ability to use Gobbledygook psuedo-science to much the same effect as Orc magic. "Captain, sensors indicate that their engines seem to use some sort of unknown parallel universe as a mode of travel. If we just emit a short inverse tachyon burst at their fleet, that would introduce a harmonic feedback loop that will disable their engines; gimme a sec while I reconfigure the front deflector array"
I would actually argue the federation has a much better chance in the scenarios than you would think and for reasons i haven't seen anyone mention yet. first by splicing federation space into the warhammer galaxy there is one major side effect, light hasnt had enough time to propagate so without ftl scanners, which the imperium doesnt have, they have to rely on the sensing abilities of psykers which can only sense a few lightyears at most on average. meaning the imperium would have to devote a huge number of ships with psykers to fish in "dead" space hoping to find a system. this will delay any progress they can make a LOT which gives the federation what it needs most... time. UFP space is apparently 8000 ly across so seeing anything useful from non ftl methods will take a long...long time. brain hurt maths: volume of sphere so not accurate but gives an idea: UFP space is volume of 2,144,660,000,000 LY if a psyker can sense 2 LY thats 33.5 LY volume and if a ship can warp *guessing here* 100 LY per day in unexplored space (wiki says 100-1000 and varies to warp fuckery so i took the low end since its unmapped space) thats 3350 volume of space that can be mapped per day so thats 640,197,015 days for a single psyker to map all of UFP space... or 1,753,964 years for a single psyker to map... google says the imperium has 2 million ships, 1.8mil are civilian so if we say they think the UFP is a problem and dedicate say.. 5% of their civilian ships to the task (probably crippling some economies lol) thats 90k ships which brings that search time down to... 19.5 years. and this isnt accurate for three reasons... 1 UFP space isnt a sphere its a weird oval thing, and 2: the imperium will have no idea what the actual area is so they will likely be searching a MUCH larger area than needed and the UFP only has 150 planets in that whole area so finding anything will really hard. so basically id say if the they are looking hard enough to damage their own economy maybe 30 years to guarantee to map everything, but likely they will toss a few hundred ships at it (assuming they dont burn a bunch of time investigating systems they already know about but thought were empty looking for the UFP) as they have other bigger problems. 3: i took the first google result on how many ships the imperium has lol second the imperium also does not have ftl communications, once again having to rely on psykers with specific potential (astropaths) to facilitate communication across the galaxy faster than light. astropaths are rare enough that most planets dont have one, and since in the setting provided the federation was dropped in the 'least active' area the likelyhood of them encountering a fleet or planet with one available is even less likely, once again providing the federation with more of what they need most... time. With those two factors and the fact that the federation would 'turtle' at the start to figure things out, i think the federation would have several years of time (maybe even decades with luck and caution) to research the imperium and innovate upgrades/counters before the first major engagements in their own space occurs, and with replicator technology that is a lot of time. side note1: voy Season 4, Episode 14 showed the federation has the capability to fly combat ships with no crew members in year 2374 which is inside the setting provided... meaning if the federation were actually desperate enough they could build entirely automated fleets run by holograms. i imagine ships without crew quarters, life support, food storage ect would be far easier to make and i believe would be invisible to psykers... a logistical nightmare for an empire whos sole ability to see things ftl is psykers. side note2: quantum slipstream drives were developed in 2381 which is 6 years after the end of the dominion war, so theoretically if they survive 10 years or so they could do a mass exodus out of the galaxy doing the classic "fck this sht i'm out" maneuver. ALL that said... id probably bump scenario 1 to maybe survival, and scenario 2 to easy survival... but the federation going on a heavy offensive?? fckin nope, not unless they can go covert and prepare for like 50 years unmolested lol which... its warhammer not happening. overall i think this video does a good job and is spot on without those two points i mentioned being considered. UFP gets steamrolled in a normal fight against the imperium, they only get a shot if they can hide and develop (and or manipulate politics) like the UNSC vs Covenant war in halo.
I am sorry to abuse the patience of the channel. But I just realized that I made a mistake. I have been considering the learning curve of Federation as crucial advantage. When it is ratter the reason why Federation could not win any war in 40K Universe. However, Federation would not lose any war to the Empire here either. It would never met any Imperial vessel. The Empire would never have time to find any Federation planet, or ship. Because intelectual curiosity is the core trait of Federation. It is the reason why they have that amazing learning curve. And it is objectively, disproportionately, dangerous in 40K Universe. As it is not in the Universe where Federation evolved. Every ship and planet of Federation would fall to Chaos, starting with the labs. By the time their scientists realized the "rules of the game" hard changed, would be already too late for the core of Federation. Internal diversity is an advantage (not a political comment, it objectively is, so much so that all living species have a lot genetic variation between individuals. It is not to preserve the feelings of anyone, or the survival of the weak. It is because that is how some individuals are likely to survive no matter what happens, when conditions change) some Federation worlds are likely to survive. The close-minded theocratic ones. But the core and the head of Federation is doomed. The Empire will find something. The Fallen, reshaped by Chaos. Not the United Federation of Planets.
That is not really in the spirit of the comparison. That would not really be the humans in wh40k vs the federation. It would just be dropping people into an environment that was hostile without any knowledge on how to survive.
I understand your point,@@Immudzen. But that is what the situation designed by the channel would likely result, all things considered. It would be more like drop an great white shark in the middle of Saara Desert and see how well it fights in that environment than like a fight. Because the Federation depends at the very core of that "investigative mind" and "unity in infinite diversity" that serves as excuse for 9 to each 10 plot-armour solutions in favour of Star Fleet that we see in New Generation. And in 40K Universe, that way of thinking is as healthy as breath by gills would be in the middle of a huge dry desert. If I understand the basic logic of 40K "magic system". Unless we give the Federation automatic immunity to the influences of corruption. That is a possibility, I suppose. But would seem unfair with the Empire. Another possibility would be to give both sides a way to move between Universes. Some astronomic event that pierces a bunch of holes between those two Universes. Chaos cannot pass through but people can, and both "magic systems" work in both Universes? Then Federation would need to learn how to close their minds a bit when they are in 40K side. And the Empire could explore the advantages of Federation laws of reality, once they understand them. Still, in the long term cultural contamination would still destroy both sides as we know them. Even if war itself doesn't.
@@thiagom8478 complete nonsense on chaos starting from the Labs. Labs still exist in 40k and those not actively involved with warp fuckery are mostly fine (except when the project is a xeno and escapes) Heck even the easiest point of Entry the Klingons would be hard to corrupt for khorne because of their strong hatred for gods (they killed theirs for being bothersome) There were and probably still some civilisations of humanity and xenos that have no idea what chaos was (or were histile) and they did fine (untill big E came along)
Sure,@@Blutwind, laboratories exist. The problem is not the physical space where research is conduced. What seems to be the problem from where I am sitting is the spirit of free investigation, the labs are just the place where that spirit manifests more intensely. That Lovecraftian premisse according to which some ideas are, in itself, dangerous to sanity. And evil. That idea is objectively false in the Universe of Star Trek. Therefore, the people who evolved in that Universe developed no defences against Necronomicron-ish research. They will open every box, by default. Make contact with anyone they cross (often abusing the patience and invading the home of people who don't want to talk with them) and try to stablish diplomatic relationship. In the context of 40K is objectively true that just think some thoughts is dangerous and may, in a bad day, lead to madness. Evil. Poor hygienic habits and questionable diet. Humanity in the Federation has a few taboos, such as genetic improvement and slavery. But they have no "serpent egg" ideas. Nothing that they will not dare to contemplate with the eye of the mind for fear of being corrupted by it. That fearless actitud is what allows then to run their technological improvement as fast as they do. In 40K universe that may not be the most wise way.
@@Blutwind no, no, he has a point. The federation would research chaos artifacts without knowing what they are, and how corruptive they can be. It's a bit like the early years of radioactive research irl, where it was sold as something healthy until people started dying, sometimes horribly (radium infused water). The federation has no way to know something is amiss, until the corruption has already spread enough to be almost unstoppable. And the ones doing the research would almost certainly be the labs.
Knowing the Federation and the Shatnerian Precedent, the Federation in M42 would undoubtedly make a bee-line for Tau space and make snu-sn... alliances.
You missed scenario 3. The Federation drops into the universe in near proximity to the T'au Empire.. and given their disposition towards talking before fighting they're more likely to get on with the T'au and given T'au in lore history of holding their guns in the face of the Imperium.. and their forward thinking scientific development I can see Federation Engineers and Earth Caste engineers going full collaboration.. given this safe haven to do their homework on the state of their newfound surroundings.. and their penchant for sussing out little details.. the Federation would genuinely stand a chance to survive and if it came to war they would excel alongside the T'au with a "We are kindred spirits.. we both seek peace amidst diverse species and we both have built great alliances of wholesomely oriented societies across many worlds. This is good. We approve. Let's work together .. for the Greater Good."
So, the Federation now ignores a authoritarian Caste system ruled by a Upperclass that indoctrinates everyone with mystic powers? And they also don't mind cannibalism? 😂
That's not really how the Tau work though. They're more about 'asking' others to join the Tau Empire, which entails being subservient to the Tau and holding the Etherials as the absolute rulers. And if you say you don't want to join the Tau and refuse their gifts, trade, and sweet talking, then you get to discuss the terms of your joining the Tau Empire with the Fire caste. The Federation would not approve of this behavior and the Tau would not accept them as an equal ally. They'd likely end up in a culture war trying to convince boarder worlds to switch allegiance assuming the Tau didn't think they could just conquer them.
@@commandoepsilon4664 The T'au use gunship diplomacy. Every single client species was taken in through threats or propagandists, and through the Ethereal's absolute control over the T'au empire they were able to rewrite history. They use Mind Control on regular T'au citizens, and any who are non-Tau are second class citizens at best in the main T'au empire
You can always tell the people who don't really know 40K but know just enough to mention a few factions. The T'au are far from the most cooperative races in 40K and even if the Federation did bow to the T'au and join them, the T'au would just castrate them anyway to prevent the Gue'vesa from overbreeding. 🤣
I think the Federation could give the Imperium a better fight than you think. Still wouldn’t be able to beat them or anything but they would be able to put up a decent fight. There are a few things that the federation could do if they acted quick enough to at least fight back somewhere effectively. They would have to throw out pretty much the entire rule book they have on war but in the face of the Imperium who wanted to wipe out all aliens. If it’s just after dominion war and voyager got before the teleport I will say yes as it gives them more of a chance as they would still be militarised war footing for a few years after. Below are the things I think the federation could do to put a good fight. 1) Reverse engineer from Voyager the armour plating tech and put it on every ship you can as fast as you can. While it might not be able to stand up to the Imperiums Biggest ship weapons (maybe it could tank a shot) it would still protect the fragile hulls from many of the small to medium ship based weapons meaning they could hang in a fire fight for at least some small amount of time. 2) Reverse engineer the Transphasic Torpedos from voyager as they will probably be the best weapon that can be mass produced that could hurt an imperium ship fast and hard enough to matter. Those things one shot a Borg cube and those things are tough even without shields though I will admit Imperium ships probably could take multiple hits. The great thing about them is they seem to completely bypass shields. 3) Use lots of Quantum torpedoes while they aren’t as good as torpedoes above they are at least around and already in service just need to ramp up production and equip ships with more. Probably though this would only be minor upgrade but take what you can. 4) Use there large industrial capacity to build orbital defence networks and minefields which we have seen deployed in the war with the dominion. While I don’t think it repel an imperium attack it could definitely buy them time. 5) Give up on capital ships. Federation ships aren’t good enough to go toe to toe with imperium ships and they can’t make ships big enough and tough enough to compete. Instead they need to transition to smaller vessels like the Defiant and Voyager as while less powerful than a galaxy class they can still pack a punch that’s not much worse than it. They will need many more ships to cover their territory and smaller ships will help as they can be turned out faster and be crewed by smaller numbers. Smaller crew numbers also help as the attrition is going to be horrendous no matter what so it’s better to loose ships with a 100 crew rather than 1000. The smaller ships are also more manoeuvrable and can hopefully weave around the larger weapons shot at them. Maybe even using marquee raider or runabouts if they up gun them enough. 6) Large fleet battles are completely off the table as those tactics won’t work as they will just be blown out of the sky in a prolonged battle. Best thing to do would be hit and run tactics. Warp in and unload everything you have into the Imperium ships do what damage they can then warp out before they take any serious damage in return. Keep doing this and maybe they can wear down any invading fleet. 7) Unleash the Genesis Device and begin producing them. While banned I think in this desperate situation they would be used and section 31 at least is not going to care about using them. They pack a hell of a punch and can them destroying an Imperium ship. Probably hard to make but at least give them a super weapon to crack the truly mammoth ships. 8) Unban subspace weapons. While highly unpredictable and a danger even to the ship firing them they are one of the few things that pack enough punch to hurt or kill an imperium ship. I mean one of them pretty much made a tear in space that would have destroyed the Enterprise E though from the sounds of things that wasn’t the intention and was unpredictable that would be a beneficial weapon (the tear in space could probably destroy an Imperium ship). Below might work though unlikely and could backfire in some cases. 9) Phased cloaks. While psykers could detect cloaked ships a phased cloak lets federation ships pass through solid objects so weapons might be useless against them for most part. Not sure about some 40k energy weapons but maybe they might have an effect also the psykers could probably still hurt them with psykers powers or even bring them into real space. Still might be able to phase some torpedoes in and blow the 40k ship from the inside. However technology was experimental and unstable so might not work or be a viable weapon. 10) Holographic soldiers. While the federation could never match the imperium on the ground they could deploy mass numbers of holographic troops that have been shown to be able to hurt people with the safeties off. Could even deploy portable holographic projector like the one the Hirogen holograms used on that planet they wanted to make a home world on. Also maybe could replicate a worse version of the Doctors mobile emitter though that has very advanced future tech so maybe not. Also this could backfire horribly as we have seen holograms becoming independent and we don’t want a whole hologram revolution. Maybe with continued wipes they could be controlled but then you have just some very basic garbage soldiers but it does give federation needed number on the ground.
@@silentknightstudios1427 Thanks. Glad someone liked it. I wanted to be in depth to show how I think the federation could best defend itself and adapt to the 40k universe.
Even after the Dominion war the Federation would get frog-stomped by the IoM. It's just a case of scale with th IoM spanning the galaxy with millions of worlds. Big E and his armis could wreck both the Federation and the Dominion and consider both engagements as separate crusades.
@@xxnoxx-xp5bl Oh don’t get me wrong if it’s before the Horus Heresy then even this wouldn’t help them much and they would be stomped. Even in 40k best they can hope for is to be problematic enough not to be conquered and to be left alone like the Tau. However with humans in the federation and being so large and practicing tech heresy it’s unlikely to be left to its own devices for long. Unlike the Tau there are bit to big to ignore. Plus federation would eventually try to poke its nose in everyone else’s business. No all my ideas and theories were more how the federation could hold out longer in a full fight against the Imperium and what they would do or best thing to do. It was mainly just to point out that they could hold for longer than just a single year but eventually yes they would be worn down and conquered. Best case scenarios for the federation following a war are as follows in my opinion: 1) Federation gets pushed back and beaten majority of there worlds taken and many left in ruin. Imperium decides it’s not worth the resources to try and take the few shattered planets the federation has left. 2) A few Federation worlds after the defeat are overlooked or never found and they go into hiding like many enemies of the Imperium have in the past though they won’t be a threat for millennia if ever. 3) Federation collapses and many worlds splinter and break off. Humans worlds are completely conquered and any valuable planet they can find would be taken. Planets with dangerous Xenos would be like the Betazoid who a physic and the Vulcans who are strong and physic to a lesser extent. A few Xenos worlds maybe allowed to survive in isolation. 4) Seeing the war is lost they try and find and colonise some corner of the galaxy that the Imperium can’t reach or hasn’t mapped yet as there is plenty of uncharted space but then again it’s likely blank for a reason. Probably would die to some unknown horror or be taken by chaos or destroyed by a hostile species. 5) Maybe the Federation decide the war is lost and try to abandon their worlds and build starships to evacuate. Essentially forming roaming fleets that travel the galaxy never settling down and only stopping to mine resources and trade for supplies that can’t be replicated. Eventually most of these fleets would be lost to some kind of horror beyond imagination or hostile Xenos race but a few might survive. Probably using there safe faster than light travel method to escape any battle. 6) Seeing the war is lost they may try and use the transporter or some other technology to try and travel to and find a parallel reality that might be safer and allow them to rebuild though Hugh chance they end up in some horrific dimension filled with cosmic horrors.
@@xxnoxx-xp5bl Oh don’t get me wrong if it’s before the Horus Heresy then even this wouldn’t help them much and they would be stomped. Even in 40k best they can hope for is to be problematic enough not to be conquered and to be left alone like the Tau. However with humans in the federation and being so large and practicing tech heresy it’s unlikely to be left to its own devices for long. Unlike the Tau there are bit to big to ignore. Plus federation would eventually try to poke its nose in everyone else’s business. No all my ideas and theories were more how the federation could hold out longer in a full fight against the Imperium and what they would do or best thing to do. It was mainly just to point out that they could hold for longer than just a single year but eventually yes they would be worn down and conquered. Best case scenarios for the federation are as follows in my opinion: 1) Federation gets pushed back and beaten majority of there worlds taken and many left in ruin. Imperium decides it’s not worth the resources to try and take the few shattered planets the federation has left. 2) A few Federation worlds after the defeat are overlooked or never found and they go into hiding like many enemies of the Imperium have in the past though they won’t be a threat for millennia if ever. 3) Federation collapses and many worlds splinter and break off. Humans worlds are completely conquered and any valuable planet they can find would be taken. Planets with dangerous Xenos would be purged like the Betazoid who a physic and the Vulcans who are strong and physic to a lesser extent. A few Xenos worlds maybe allowed to survive in isolation. 4) Seeing the war is lost they try and find and colonise some corner of the galaxy that the Imperium can’t reach or is unmapped but most as there are places but it would be a long shot and most likely those areas of blank map are super unsafe. 5) Maybe use the transporters or some other to try and find another reality that is safer though highly unlikely to succeed they may find something. Most likely they only find dimensions filled with cosmic horrors. 6) Federation sees war is lost and creates ships to evacuate as many as they can. Eventually forming several fleets that travel the galaxy only stopping to mine for resources and trade. Using there faster than light warp drives to escape conflict by evading their enemies and never engaging in prolonged fights. Most of these fleets would die after running into some hostile part of space or Xenos or run across some unspeakable horror out there but some might be able to adapt and continue on.
All of the federations weapons are capable of firing while in warp, in other words at FTL their missiles/ torpedos are FTL capable, another point impulse is almost .92C, making it stupid fast in acceleration and deceleration. The agility of their ships would exceed anything the imperium has. In the TV shows the ranges are closer for many artists reasons but even in the series they fire weapons at warp and their weapons alone are ftl capable of
As a huge ST fan but only a very casual WH enjoyer my main points of discussion would be: - The Imperium's resistance to technology development would severely limit their abilty to adapt to new technology. Would they have any resistance to a Phaser? Any answer to teleportation? Are the federations shields completely resistant to projectiles? - The fundamentalism of the imperium could work as a weakness against a powerful, diverse group united towards a cause that could be considered 'good'. How many factions and groups would sympathise with the prime directive if chaos is removed from the equation? - The abilty for the federation to adapt, evolve and most importantly change, is their greatest power. Through diplomacy they now have the combined power, technology and history of every group they have come across. An enemy that can change and adapt quickly has historically shown to be incredibly difficult to put down.
A Federation ship is also more powerful than any Imperium ship short of battleships. A single photo torpedo can crack a planet and they throw out dozens against individual ships. Heck, the shields of an early model Enterprise completely resisted multiple shots from the planet killer.
@@voidtempering8700 But a photon torpedo has incredibly little mass and would thus just be shunted into the warp effortlessly by the void shields. ... Because they are not energy shields aiming to stop stuff like in ST - they work by removing incoming matter and energy from existence by throwing them into a different dimension...
@skalgrimfellaxe5796 That's not exactly true. Laser weapons are used extensively in 40k, and they can strip shields. The amount of energy delivered is still a key part of warp shields.
@@voidtempering8700 No lasers are not used extensively in 40k void battles other than as point defense or on fighter crafts. Lances however are. These are energized streams of particles funneled in a beam, sometimes guided by lasers that together counteract dispersion issues found in standard lasers. This allows the weapon to pack a much greater punch as they are not only energy based but also have mass while still reaching both light and near light speeds depending on configuration.
@skalgrimfellaxe5796 Lasers are used extensively in void battles, and have been described as being used in a variety of books. Heck, in the Gothic Armada rulebook, they are outright stated to be one of the means of direct fire alongside fusion beams and plasma launchers. Secondly, that still doesn't negate my point. A stream of particles still doesn't have much mass.
- If someone say "The Earth fleet from Yamato Space Battleship could rival the Imperium!", I'd say nah, they will destroy the Imperium!! - BUT if someone say "Any animated large names such as Star Trek or Star Wars could rival the Imperium!"???? I'd sat nah, their world would be Exterminatus!!
Interesting question... does Picard after season 1 of ST:Picard count as Tecno-Heresy or as the final goal of the Tech-Priests? (After all he was organic, then bio-transferred to his new android body). There's also another point to consider, at least for a campaign in particular... the Federation has Earth as well, and some primitive Earth copies, how would the WH40K fleet react at seeing what is basically old Holy Terra? All your arguments have a lot of merit and what I would agree would happen. However, I would want to point out some things in case they were missed. A few questions, what ST map was that one? That Federation on the map looks MASSIVE - during the 24th Century they were not THAT big, probably not even a tenth of the size shown, specially compared with the Borg Collective. Actually all the other powers except the Borg were smaller too, this should be even more in favour of 40k performing a curve-stomping attack with numbers, but also on making them harder to find. Second, Jem'Hadar vessels combined their similar size with a similar technique to their Polaron Weaponry, so they just bypassed shields most of the time. There was a case on a TNG episode where a normal shield collision happened, a shuttle just bounced off the shield. Granted, this only happened with smaller ships colliding with the shield so it's pretty much a moot point against the humongous 40K ships. Third, lasers were even easily blocked by a Federation ship with normal shields down and only the navigational deflector up, dealing negligible damage. Granted, 40k ships' lasers are more often than not bigger and more powerful, and ships posses far more than lasers (f.ex. those plasma-based weaponry you stated) so in the end the final result would not matter unless the Federation ship used a spot where most weapons were lasers (unlikely) so they could either fire without suffering as much punishment as in other areas, or even could actually use that "transporter" trick without being suicide, just risky. Another thing I'm considering might work is using the transporters to beam away boarders (as, transporting a boarding team of Adeptus Astartes to space), even if that tactic is more often than not unused by the Federation. Also depending on Federation innovation the lowering-shields-to-transport may not be an issue, since if I remember correctly, the USS Voyager could just lower a small section of the shield to allow transporters to work without dropping the entire shield grid entirely. Fourth, even if a bit unlikely, I could totally see a powerful psyker or Tech-Priest trumping a lot of the ST advantages by distorting reality or invalidating a Fed ship programming, specially with how vulnerable most Federation ships' software seems to be, albeit on the case of the Adeptus Mechanicus or Techmarines I am unsure if their binaric hack attempts would succeed at first since Fed tech is so different from their technology it could have been considered xeno-tech-heresy, plus all Fed ships seem to be complex enough to harbor multiple full AIs in them. There's another scenario I'm considering where the Imperium could destroy the Federation easily, where a 30k-40k fleet was displaced to the ST Universe, and supposing that the Warp also exists there, but extremely calm due to the lack of Ruinous Powers there, so if the Warhammer fleet gained enough intel about the position of the Federation's members, it could just Warp to each planet at very close range and fire Exterminatus ordinance, and unless the planet had a shield like Post-Dominion-War Earth, they would be doomed.
It's interesting. If we were to talk someone using trekkie tech to it's theoretical fullness, imperium wouldn't stand a chance. For example, infinite nukes via replicator teleported into or in front of imperium ships (depending on whether or not you think you can teleport through void shields.) Teleports have planetary scale range, unlike their other weapon systems. Another small side note, it's my understanding that most trekkie ships are far more manueverable than even the corvette and frigate based imperial ships. They fly like fighters compared to the imperium. I'm not sure the imps could land the macro cannons. The lances are an issue at range, though most or on the prow, or upper hull, and these far faster, more manueverable craft could learn to avoid it by being behind or under their target, relative to it.
Hah! Under a year for it all to fall? My man. It might take years for the imp ships just to show up! If they show up 'on time'. And not before, or after. I'm not saying the federation wouldn't fall, just, not that fast. Not without issues for the imperium and having guerilla warfare on a silly scale too. Nukes teleported onto planets after the first atrocities hit the federation and lone captains star making... decisions.
How powerful would the Q race compare to the Chaos gods individually? Is a single Q more powerful then the most powerful Warp spawn empowered by hundreds of quadrillions of Warp signature souls?
I would say Q is. Unlike chaos Q can do what ever it wants when ever it wants with the only limits as far as we know being self imposed. They require neither ritual or belief to fuel what they do.
@@ambushbob5383 Neat. Do you think a Q would far outclass them in raw power that they can simply snap their hands and a Chaos god would be destroyed instantly if they willed it?
@@JohnLevi-t1w i dont know if he could kill them outright but I'm 100% positive he could starve them to death. With the snap of his fingers he could rob sentient life of free will, remove everyone's emotions, make everyone immortal, bring back the dead, bestow Q powers, maybe just remove everyone from the board all togeather.
I think the Q can beat the Chaos gods, probably even on an individual level simply because of their ability to create pocket dimensions. They could probably just cut off the Chaos gods from their warp power.
@@atankersview I mean I meant if both of them actually had everything equalized equal amount of planets and all that not just the c&c as they are now even I a diehard c&c fan know that they would be destroyed since it's basically just a single planet.
Brother hood of Nod is one of my top 3 fantasy factions, all the command and conquer forces ( GDI, Nod , scriin) do not stand a chance on hell although I can see KAYNE the prophet somehow convincing everyone including chaos gods he is the right hand of the emperor or something and scheme on how to take his place. that said .. no even if you put the fictional allies , japan empire , soviets , mutants , whatever along with the "base" GDI , Nod and scriin , cnc still does not have any chances , even the dark eldar a relatively week faction could take the entire cnc with such ease that would hardly be considered training.
you should do a video on WH 40K vs Space battleship yamato each UNCF ship is basically a mini death-star with a cannon or 2 that can one-shot entire fleets or contents the size of Australia along with fighter squadrons with great anti capital ship capability's and in a package of an average length of 400 Meters
I'm old school sci-fi fan, Star Trek and Star Wars also 40k, neither The Federation nor the Empire or Republic stands a chance against one 40k warship at 1.5 kilometers long, maybe Palpatine's Eclipse, or Darth Vader Super Star Destroyer.
Numbers would be that chance if it was their entire fleet against a 40k warship. Because it doesn't matter how large your ship is. That much fire power will eventually make it through.
@@carlosamontalvo3217 star wars ships have a chance because they're faster, and also have hyperspace instant communication. So they'll be able to outrun the Imperial Navy, and coordinate better. Of course we're talking capital ships only and even only those on the bigger end.
@@sillak5253 The video limited it to just the Federation. But yes that is part of the numbers factor . The Federation swarmed a Borg cube and managed to destroy it. It would be the same game if a single 40k ship was put against the entire Federation. Sure the Federation would lose ships but eventually their going to hit something critical.
If I remember correctly, the executor SSD was 19km long, and a Gloriana class is 28km long. So the size disparity isn't too crazy among the largest ships. The real disparity comes in soldiers... Boarding an imperial star destroyer with a few squads of astartes... I feel sorry for the storm troopers. Compared to Star Trek, a borg cube is 3km on a side... So it would take 9 cubes to almost match the mass of the Gloriana. And a borg cube dwarfs the galaxy class.. Now i know there aren't many Gloriana class ships left after the heresy, and few were ever built, but the same can be said of Sassy. Just comparing the largest and most iconic ships. When it comes down to it though, the imperium simply has more. More ships, more soldiers, more planets, more super weapons, more willingness to use them all.
Once you realize that matter replicators run on energy-matter conversion, and the amount of energy such a system would need to run, and then realize that these systems are universally available and taken for granted as a crew comfort accommodation aboard StarFleet ships… there was never a contest
My issue is actually much more basic.. the imperium, for all of its amazing numbers, and gigantic ships... Its still using slow to turn, cumbersome, painfully slow at sublight, basic line ships with simple firing arcs. Ive seen the galaxy class enterprise do a literal deathstar run and thats their least maneuverable ship. Star trek ships also have close to full 360 degree spherical firing arcs.. At sublight speeds the imperium's ships may aswell be not moving at all frankly. I have a difficult time imagining any of the imperiums firepower actually coming to bear considering they're basically piloting a fleet of flying buildings. Its almost the same problem as a star destroyer but much worse. How much time would it take before the federation realizes it can just jump out of warp underneath and behind the imperiums fleet, and fire on them with total impunity?
That is the general consensus. The federation can win battles but not the war. You going to fight like an eldar? Fine. Created a box of ovetlapping death and attack your infastructuer. I remind you the eldar are superior to the imperium in every way but one. Numbers. The imperium can afford to wage a slow war of attration for millenia. And unlike the eldar the federation cannot move there homes out of the way. Remember the reason the eldar still exist is trying to accauly find a craftworld is like trying to find a hay in a needle stack. Attacking commorath would require several crusade fleets and even then you at best pissed of the dark eldar who are even worse then chaos. It is general accepted that killing off the eldar is something the imperium could do But it would cripple them to the point a stiff wind would kill them. The federation isnt nearly as technologicly advance as the eldar or necrons. But they learn fast. There best hope is to tech rush. Given enough time the federation would be able to defeat the imperium. But that is the thing about 40k. In a 1vs1 the imperium beats them all. But in this galatic free for all everyone is screwing everyone. Fun fact. At the hight of their power the eldar would have slaughter the tyranid fleet. All of it. The ctan see the tyranids as an all you can eat buffey. The tyranids outnumber the galaxy many times over and their are things in 40k that could beat them. 40k is a horror story. The federation wont survive with their ideals intact. And if they lose their ideals. Are they still the federation?
Eldar ships are as maneuverable as Star trek ships or even more, and Imperial ships don't have problem to fight them. Well they have but they can fight them. The thing is, Imperials warships do have turret mounted weapons that can cover all the flanks. It's the massive macro battery found on the broadside that have limited angles.
The real issue is star trek shields and weapons. They are so powerful the 40K weapons wont hurt them and their weapons will go through warhammer shields and ships like paper. If all the warhammer and star fleet ships fought one huge battle it would be a long and bloody slaughter of warhammer.
@@neishark1735 are you sure? Eldar ships from my general understanding are operating on some kind of solar sail.. they are fast, but star trek ships can jump in and out of warp speed almost at will. What are some feats for eldar ships?
In Startrek the Battles take place in relatively close proximity. In 40K the ranges of the weapons are far far greater, and they dont technically target the ships, they destroy the space the ship is in. See Battlefleet Gothic. The Imperium would be firing while the Federation only had them on long range scanners.
2 quick things. 1-if things get close, the imperium has boarding torpedoes. 2- if the federation was dumb enough to try to transport a small strike team into an imperium ship, they’d be facing hundreds if not thousands of astra militarum troops.
I'm not a Star Trek fan but I'm not sure it would go down so easy for the Imperium. The first mistake of space ship battles is that people think that they are naval battle with ships facing each other and zipping around in dog fight. The realty is that spaceship battles is more like in The Expanse, meaning it's more like far away hide and seek and the ship with the best cloaking and and better sensors will absolutely win, just like how mars was able to smoke bigger Earth ship. Second the federation is absolutely able to produce super soldier and they do have them, the people in the Star Trek ship are not main federation soldiers and the problem with space marine charging them, is the phasers have a disintegrator mode which they usually don't use but will most likely have no trouble using it against space marine, and it's standard issued. The teleportation device if used with malice will absolutely hurt imperial soldier and Space Marine. Finally if the conflict drags, the federation unlike the imperium can definitely start diplomacy with Eldar, Tau and even Start studying and understanding Necron technology which the imperium would not be able to do. I don't know I think the fight would be much harder for the Imperium even if they win.
One other thing I think your missing is that the imperium ships are designed to take hits. A lot of them. A strike cruiser alone would decimate an odyssey class.If you bring in the big ones, gloriannas and such, not a chance. And remember that Star Trek ships in cannon lose repeatedly to Borg cubes. And a Borg cube is no where near as powerful as a battle barge. Even if you bring in discovery’s timeline again. Federation ships are meant to be hit and run.
You are right the IoM would prob lose in the first few battles, then they would stop playing and instead of "scouting" Fleets would send in Formations from the prestigious Battlefleets like Battlefleet Gothic for example. And on the Ground: I don't think the Feds have an answer to the suicidal charges of the Death Corps of Krieg, the discipline of the Cadian Shocktroops or the various Methods of War from different Astartes Chapters. And the IoM doesn't need one of its few Glorianas left just one or two Crusades frm the Black Templars a handful Custodes and the usual metric ton of Guardsmenif the Fed isn't outright killing every Guardsmen on sight fast enough one is going to call for Artillery/Air support/Orbital strike and the the Feds are cooked. Also id Imperial Heroes like Dante, Sicarius or their like join the combat... Also don't forget the Imperial Inquisition and their covert ops thinking
Imperium ships would get rick rolled. Federation ships are as nimble as fighters and can travel up to 25% the speed of light. Federation ships usually have no blind spots either. Imperium ships like Star wars ships have these huge massive engines in the back creating the perfect blind spot.
@@michaelgonzales1845 yes but the IoM doesn’t care if it loses 10 Shops for every FED Ship they destroy, they routinely sacrifice irreplacebel Battleships to achive victory. Also their Lanceweapons only Need to disable the shields and they can teleport Boarding parties with their own shields active. If it‘s a ship of the imperial Navy the fed Security has a Chance to win But if it’s an Astartes Battlebarge or Strike Cruiser there is no Chance in Hell that that ship isn‘t going to a Forge World for study. Also eben the imperial Navy Wölfe win in the end just because of mass and atrition
Wow 4 reply lol! Let me reiterate that spaceships battles are not 2 ships lining each other and launching a laser cannonade like in naval battle. Spaceship battles are hide and seek battle with vessels shooting at each other relying on sensor and radar like submarines. It this kind of battle the federation are largely superior because they have better cloaking devices and sensor. The other huge advantage of the federation is that they have true Advanced Artificial intelligence that can run thousands of battle simulations to get the best battle plans and outcome, the ship AI can outmaneuver the imperium ships easily, AI can create new weapons based on battle data, etc. The imperium is a paper tiger rotting away. Most of their advanced technologies can not be replaced if lost and barely repairable. The federation can replace and repair their spaceship much faster than the imperium and even improve them based on battle data. The outcome of a war against the federation would be the same as what happened with the Tau, the imperium would suffer big losses, then other more important shits would pop out somewhere else in the galaxy and they would just be like, fuck it I have better things to do. In the end it's always hard to compared 2 different universe because they are not the same literary style, Star Trek is science fiction which means that it is based on an extrapolation of what science and technology could be in the future. WH 40K is a space fantasy like Star wars , it's basically medieval space battles with space wizards and space knights that have access to technology.
I am a huge Trek fan but yeah, the Federation's chances of survival are pretty bleak. I'd say their biggest advantage is how quickly they can figure out how a piece of technology works. I garuntee in relatively little time, Federation scientists and engineers will understand Imperial tech better than the Imperium itself.
I doubt it. A tau diplomat was possessed by a tzentch demon from simply touching a Gellar field generator's casement. They could recreate some stuff as the tau do, but the real secrets of mars, luna, and terra would be completely outside their paradigm. The tech that supports even lasgun manufacture is the result of an ascendant human federation that almost rivalled the aeldari. It's as arcane as it is scientific.
I'd like to imagine to look on a tech-priests face when Federation engineers casually figure out how tech works and then start making more of it, while the priests themselves are panicking because they haven't been able to figure out how it works for a thousand years. I recall theres some sort of light recon vehicle that they only have a few of, and they never turn them off, instead just corralling them into something like an animal pen, because they literally dont know how they work anymore and if they shut it off they cant figure out how to turn it back on.
@@Heretus What would be funny is Ork tech not being magical, just highly advanced Old One tech. The Mechanicus can't understand it, so they just chalked it up to Warp powers.
The best way to describe a macro cannon would be the equivalent of say firing a school bus at the speed of light, that’s how devastating those things are and in regards to lances, they’re more akin to pulse energy weapons, where the lance beam is charged and then stored into massive and I mean massive capacitors and then suddenly fired at a single moment, now each lance can be programmed so they can either dum all of their energy into a single massive and powerful shot which is powerful enough to punch through a chaos warship and out the other side, leaving a live massive hole in the middle of their ship, the other setting is a rendered cut down beam mode where if anyone who hasn’t played halo reach or used the Spartan laser, you know whenever you fire the thing it takes about two to three seconds for the entire beam to dissipate and for the more experienced players, know that if you turn quickly enough before firing you can essentially rake the laser beam for a few short seconds allowing you to hit multiple targets and the same can be said about the lance, where if the beam is turned into its lower setting it can essentially rake the side of a starships hull, and whilst not as powerful as the single lance bolt, it allows captains to either hit much smaller and faster enemies as well as to essentially slice the enemy ship into pieces, if not then rather than hitting a core component they could do much lighter damage but to multiple sub systems instead. That being said imperial ships whilst the much larger ships are slower, the smaller ships are able to catch up if not even out perform more maneuverable opponents like the eldar or even necroms,
I imagine a federation boarding party teleporting in, and getting mobbed by the ten thousand naval ratings, gun-hands, naval armsmen and press-ganged deckhands within minutes.
Question for the comments: Could the UFP defeat the tyranids? i mean they beat the borg who are kinda of the techy version of the Hive minds biological evolution thing. Thoughts?
short answer - no long answer - are you joking ? Tyranids are milion times worse than Undine (species 8472) which already are nigh unbeatable for Federation - sure you can develop a weapon to affect the Tyranids ... and use it once, maybe twice ... third time they become resistant, frourth time immune and by the fifth try they are using your weapons effects against you instead ...
@mrfigaloopierre9610 the Nids would just adapt to the nuke, that's the tyrranids whole MO. they've adapted to being dropped from orbit into an ocean of toxic waste from hive worlds, fought the death guard (servants of the plague god) to a point that the world they were on became so virile that when a hive ship slurped off the biomass it recoiled & the rest of the hive blasted that ship into oblivion. the federations sole reliance on energy weapons would ironically get them steamrolled by a hive fleet, since they can overtime become immune to phaser fire & any other singular weapon a prey species uses. this is why the imperium has kinetic munitions & other weapons mixed into its arsenal. it makes adaptation to damage from two different weapon types impossible for the hive mind in that particular scenario.
The difference in scale between these universes is absolutely massive. In terms of timeline the Imperium forces have tens of thousands of years over the Federation, even if their understanding of the technology they wield is pitiful. The only reason the Federation might have a chance is if they could figure out a way to interfere with the Imperial ability to access the warp. If they could do that then the Imperium forces are pretty much forced to stay out of Federation territory. Given enough time I could see the Federation bulking up its defences to be able to cope in terms of survival against most 40K threats but I think it would take quite a bit of time and a societal shift in order to do so. They would probably have to start building mega-sized ships like those of the Imperium in order to be able to take hits and meet out punishment on a similar or greater scale. As far as ground warfare goes, that's one of the areas that really requires the societal shift but in terms of technology available the Federation could surely come up with more effective alternatives for pretty much any Imperium ground vehicle.
The Imperium didn't discover FTL until the 18th Millennia. So I wouldn't use time as a factor in technological development here. The Imperium has only had the ability of FTL for 24,000 years. So technologically speaking they aren't too far apart the aesthetics aside. Also they do have automated systems for building ships as well as food production via replicators technology. And a total population of around 985 billion most of whom would quickly realize that the Imperium doesn't see them as worthy of life and that no prisoners will be taken. The human population being around 10 to 15 billion or so. Meaning the Xenos in the Federation outnumber the humans. This also means that when the Federation starts employing ground forces if they do at all. It's going to likely mostly consist of Androids as opposed to purely biological federation members. Because androids can be manufactured in mass production. And built for the purpose of engaging in such barbaric practice as war as far as the Federation would be concerned. This is but one way of countering the Imperiums forces.
That's the real key: Trek is shown to constantly come up with whatever loophole in physics or tech would be convenient at the time. It's hard to predict exactly what the Federation would come up with, but you can be certain there'll be something. If the wild card turns out to be useful, Trek might indeed get to a stalemate with an established border. Though realistically, they'd be distracted by trying to negotiate with the Orks.
@DZ-X3 Negotiations with Orkz. Expectations : We are going to send a team down to have a peaceful negotiation with these green humanoids. How it's going after they make first contact... Da Orkz Da Bests. Punity Ummi wanta talk to much . Ork smash weak ummi . Ummi go squish hahaha . Orkz negotiations 101 lol. If you can't beat an Ork, he won't respect you enough to have a talk with you. Though the larger the Ork the more intelligent they are is a general rule. With the unfortunate side effect of the larger the Ork the more likely he is to have a proper WAAAGH!! around him.
Federation ships are much better, and are fitted with much better weapons and shielding when compared to the Imperium ships. It would likely take a fleet just to breach the Enterprises shields.
Hey, great job. Best case in both settings is first contact is made by a Rogue Trader fleet. Either way a good chunk of the federation would disappear once someone meets Lt. Commander Data.
Actually, now it's 'turn the tables' time! Question: How would a Warhammer expeditionary fleet do if transplanted to the Star Trek Galaxy? People always like to put things from outside the 40k verse INTO the 40k home turf to make their argument. Now, strip an imperial force of its home turf and see how it does without renewable resources. Or, even better, put both sides on an even starting footing, much like how troop- and base-builder RTS games like StarCraft function. Like, maybe fleets from both end up transplanted to a new pocket universe, a small star cluster. And, go!
I think the reason why it is easier to put the federation in 40k is because the federation is only a part of the galaxy, while the imperium is almost all of the galaxy. It would be nice to see a expeditionary fleet be transplanted into the star trek universe, but while they would raise Cain, they wouldn't be able to do too much because of lack of logistics, and the fact that it would probably take at least a century to conquer star trek given their pace during the great crusade..
Paused at 2:25 - I love Star Trek - but 40k wipes the floor with everything. Hell, you could put Star Trek, Star Wars, Halo, Aliens, Predator - hell every other Universe up against 40k, and they will still wipe the floor without breaking a sweat. Huge huge HALO fan, that is my Universe - but 40k is a total different animal - took a dive in to the lore of 40k, and just wow - that seriously needs a trilogy film ASAP.
Oh please, 40k can't even touch a fed ship. Their weapons out range everything they have. Ship phasers - 300,000 km Photon torpedoes - 15,000 km - 3.5 million KM Also torpedos travel at warp. Trek is known to use time travel to win as well. go back in time enough and use a certain torpedo and start rewriting planets and remove them from play The torpedo I am talking about can be found in the Wrath of Khan.
Picard shiny bald head overpower the astronomicon leaving billions to die from starvation and void of space and fall of the imperium. Federation holds total victory as the Imperium falls.
Honestly the best case scenario is the imperium going 'give us your FTL tech that doesnt involve jumping head first in to hell and we will leave you alone'
The first issue that breaks the whole thing...we see on screen ships fighting at visual range because it looks good on TV. But if you listen to them talk about the ranges they are fighting at, their max weapons range is more like 200,000 km, and their sub light maneuvering speed is 0.25c. Pretty much any major power in trek stomps anything else. Its like a F22 vs F4. You are under attack and blow up before you even know what is attacking you, often before you even know there is an enemy nearby.
Pretty much this, Imperium ships because of their use of mostly physical weapons wouldn't even be able to hit a Star Trek ship at that range. The lance weapons would be devastating sure, but they're mounted on the bow of a ship and a ST ship is far more manuverable so it's never going to be pointing at them anyway. People making these comparisons are always blatantly biased (as we all are) and ignore obvious parts of the lore in both universes just so that their favourite wins. The only example anyone should need for the power of ST weapons, is the first episode with the Borg who have never encountered phasers at the time, it blows holes clean through that first cube, bigger than the size of their own Galaxy class firing the phasers in the first place. Phasers only seem less powerful at other times because everyone in their own universe already has adapted to counter them.
I thought about it, and at the end of the day, Star Trek is just as much Space Fantasy as Star Wars or Warhammer 40k can be. It's just a bit more subtle about it, and usually tries to cosplay as a somewhat scientifically-minded show, and stay in line with high Sci-Fi concepts for its stories. But in reality, its tech is all over the place, including in the bonkers technomagic rule of cool department that 40k specializes in. So it all comes down to whether you accept to give Starfleet its transphasic torpedoes back (the ones they get access to after USS Voyeger returns home). If they don't have it, they're basically toast. But if they do, it's the other way around. Let me explain. Navis Imperialis fleets are incapable of dealing with torpedoes that can't be hit, go through Star Trek shields and armor (including Borg subspace fields), and travel evidently much faster than Trek ships on full impulse, since they can't outrun torpedoes in Trek (and full impulse is about 0.6c by the way, so thrice as fast as the best the Imperials could get out of their plasma drives (0.2c)). And I shouldn't have to remind you that Void Shields do _not_ stop torpedoes in principle. In addition, we've seen single transphasic torpedoes blow up to bits big fat Borg Cubes, and those are 3km long, wide, and tall. In terms of sheer volume of materials they're actually easily comparable to Retribution and Emperor class battleships. So we know that, unless we come up with some weird technobabble interaction between transphasic tech and Void Shields, one Starfleet cruiser outfitted with transphasic torpedoes could easily wipe out a whole battlefleet in one go, because those bad boys aren't exactly hard to hit you see... You've said it yourself. It's a post scarcity civilization. Their ships can replicate these torpedoes on board for the God-Emperor's sake, so they don't even need to resupply most of the time. The only times they go back home is for vacations (vacations!! Do they get those in the Navis Imperialis? I don't think so 😅), or to perform extensive repairs and maintenance. Oh, and good luck trying to land troops if your transports get blown up the minute they enter the system... The Imperium's only saving grace would ironically be... Chaos. It's the only thing that could and would easily prey on the Feds, regardless of transphasic torpedoes. And even then, you're not safe from having Starfleet bullshit its way out of Warp shenanigans with more technomagic and technobabble. These guys are legit tech wizards who might put Mechanicus tech priests into deep shame and introspection. And by the way most Star Trek writers are either scientifically illiterate or barely familiar with some niche nerdy science terms and soundbites (the former just copy the ill-applied nerdy jargon of the latter and mess it up even more).
Taht part when you speak about psychological efect of Astartes charging in lore its called transhuman dread, bdw normal Empire ships have crew size of large city, so gut luck bording it or repel bording team
@jakubkvacala1880 Just a quick aside, those crew numbers are all based on Battlefleet Gothic 2 on PC so are a bit questionable, I would expect them to get scaled back down at some point as they used to be just in the thousands, (probably maxing out in the mid 10's of thousand for the largest) as someone at GW is going to realise it renders the Guard obsolete as you've got ships with Crews of anything up to 100,000 shipping regiments numbering a few thousand.
@@maddlarkin According to 40K wiki Lunar and Gotic class cruisers have crew of approximately 95,000 crew, most of it convicts and servitors, but these are only numbers i found, bdw there would be more regiments on 1 transport, and transports would have much smaller crew then warship
@jakubkvacala1880 yeah it's all from Battle Fleet Gothic 2, the table top version was very careful to not give numbers for anything, the only time there was even close to a number was noting the Armageddon Class Battlecrusiers needed an extra 2,000 drafted to man the relays in its introduction fluff (and if the crews already 100k, who cares about an extra 2k) and a short story in Inferno by Andy Chambers who invented the system which estimated a Lunar classes numbers at 9,000 (tbh that's way to low, but story's worth a read if u can find it, really creepy with hints of AI) The crews have balloned since BFG 2 came out of pretty much every class. I mean if u need to pacify a farm world why bother shipping a regiment of Guard, a those numbers a Crusiers arms men complement would dwarf most regiments so u may as well just send a Cruiser whose patrolling that way anyway. I figure since this all sprouted from outside GW they'll retcon it down at some point, maybe if they ever re-release BFG, probably settling on a Lunar being around say 20-30K crew, which seems a lot more reasonable for a 6km long ship
@@maddlarkin An imperial guard regiment is not a few thousand, typically. The normal size for them tends to be more like 50,000 or so each, but varies based on what type of regiment it is (some go down massively, as low as a few thousand). Also when you transport a regiment, you also send with it absolutely everything it needs. So you have the regiment, absolutely all their vehicles, supplies, ammo, etc. So rather than even just 25k to 50k people, it is 50k people AND everything it is believed they will use for the duration of the war (or at least a few months). So when you hear about a ship carrying 4 regiments, that is 200,000 people, with ground transports for all of them, plus hundreds to thousands of tanks, artillery, anti-air, etc, plus all supplies for all those people and all those vehicles, plus whatever else it is assumed they will need.
And what if they had a betazoid...... Betazoid: "Captain! I sense furious anger all over the ship." Black Templar: SORCERY!!! DIE, XENOS WITCH!!! * BBBZZZZZRRRRRRRRRR!!!!! * [Indiscrimintate guts, gore, and screaming EV-ER-Y-WHERRRRE] Grimdark makes me happy.... it has since 1987.... I was 10. LoL
I'm going to ignore the technological aspects of things, because both settings are run on handwavium and bullshitite generously mixed with 1-2-6-trimethyl-whatever-the-author-needs-at-the-moment-ine. Neither has any real internal consistency of it's capabilities when it comes down to it. Star Trek is (in)famous for it's technobabble. Reverse the polarity of the warp core fluctuator stabilizers to render the grebonium inert so we can safely detach it from the proton deflector and we win! meanwhile, in 40K what something can do mainly comes down to which army codex you're reading. If you're reading Space Marines then a single marine can re-take a planet from Chaos by accident, and if you're reading Tyranids then "dark age of technology Mk II venerable terminator armor" is long-winded term for "canned beef". So then the conflict comes down to picking which imaginary tech takes precedence over the other imaginary tech, and at that point it's basically all just settled by referee decision. Anyway, I digress. Assuming both settings are close enough in "power level" to make it a fight (otherwise there wouldn't be anything to argue about in the first place), the biggest issue I see for the Federation is just the general difference in the themes of the settings: Star Trek is a hopeful vision of the future where we can put aside our differences and join hands to explore the galaxy while 40K has the famous tag line "in the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war". One wishes for coexistence through diplomacy with violence as a last resort, the other shoots first and later because it has no questions to ask. In the end, that difference in theme is what decides the winner for me. Violence essentially trumps every other method of conflict resolution; there's not much you can do if the other side punches you in the jaw and does things their way regardless of what you say, except also resorting to force. Even if it's just force in the sense that you're blocking their fist, you have still followed along with their escalation from words to violence. And beyond that, there is only using more force and/or applying it on a grander scale. So, all else being equal (or at least close enough), the side willing to go to further extremes will eventually come out on top because they can escalate the conflict past a point where the other side won't follow, and things Star Trek would see as absolutely abhorrent, 40K sees a the bare minimum.
A mass versus class scenario? A phaser disintegrates much better than the Necrons' Gauss cannons. Even Archer could blow up entire mountains. In TNG you can create cataclysmic volcanic reactions. On the ground, WH wins unless ST has space superiority. A Baneblade is a perfect target for any ship in orbit. The range and accuracy of phasers and photon torpedoes is extreme. Photon torpedoes even have shields. A Federation ship could theoretically destroy an entire WH fleet from a safe distance. Even demons would be no problem for the Federation. They scan them, adjust the phasers and finally develop a weapon that can wipe them out on a multidimensional level. The demon would then really be dead. No respawn. A Klingon once simply destroyed the entire biosphere of a planet. That would be unethical, but theoretically any Federation ship could do that. The Empire will win if they send their entire fleet against the Federation, but the losses would be high. But the Empire has other problems, as we know. If you can't even defeat the Tau, you'll have a tough time against the Federation.
Mostly right, I don't think they would be able to deal with warp demons that easily, but Star Trek isn't exactly new to dealing with powerful physic entities.
@mrfigaloopierre9610 In Prodigy, Janeway had to deal with beings that devour entire timelines. After a short time, Janeway had modified her phaser with the sensor data so that the phaser fired at the frequency of the beings and could thus injure them. And in Lower Decks, a dimensional rift was sealed that would have destroyed the entire universe and perhaps even the neighboring timelines. Warp space and demons are nothing more than a new anomaly that can be researched. It's only a matter of time. With all the resources of the Federation, it's not unrealistic if the first prototype is available within a few days. Don't forget, Star Trek is on a comparable level of technology to the Necrons.
@mrfigaloopierre9610 Star Trek's technobabble is practically magic. The scanners can analyze everything down to the quantum level (so you can find out which universe someone is from, for example) and for every problem there is a particle that can solve it. Phasers, for example, use nadion particles, which can also block tears in space-time.
So what happens when the AI gets its own ideas and vents the ship? Or random red shirt becomes a psyker and the ship subsequently gets swamped in demons in the matter of minutes?
Everyone in the Star Trek universe would die of a stroke the second they learn of ten percent of the shit the empirium does
I think the moment they realized hell is not only real but occupied by 4 dark gods, the tyranids and orks exist they'd commit suicide at the thought of the fate that awaits them. Being part of the imperium is their only chance of survival ironically enough. And girlyman might even embrace their aliens if they prove to be more trust worthy than 40ks.
They would accept the humans. Others will be purged in His Holy Name.
@GrimdarkTavern I'm not convinced. The main reason humans act that way is because every xenos is a threat, backstabber, and work against humans survival. The federation aliens aren't typically like that. And never to the same degree of enslaving humans at their lowest and defenses state.
So I think Big E the person would actually form an alliance with the federation. Which would help both groups. The federation would gain an insanely powerful war like ally. And the imperium would gain the science, research, and more upbeat allies in the federation. I honestly think they'd get on very well.
@NeiasaurusCreations you do have a valid point
@@NeiasaurusCreations I'd agree to this. The adeptus mechanicus' views are tolerated in the imperium due to the importance they hold in creating war machines. If it wasn't for that, they would have been labelled heretics. The federation exceeds the Imperium in Research and Development, probably THE most important thing the imperium lost.
This could be seen as an asset, and could be included into the imperium as none-heretical as it serves mankind survival.
The federation are Human, and not tainted by Chaos. To the Imperium this would be an Ally, as long as they comply.
1:40 Magnus did nothing wrong. Literally. He was asked to do nothing, and did it wrong.
🤣🤣
That I cannot argue with lol
That's a hard take. But I see your point. 😀
Dammmmmn
Somebody call Nasa that burn must be visible from space.
"Captain's log: We have encountered a species which refer to themselves as the 'Droo-kari' who have generously agreed to a diplomatic meeting. They seem very eager to meet us."
@@robfromjersey7899 they're screwed, literally and metaphorically
Ren before you become a TV stand or a hat or a tea cosy
this is the insidious racism of startrek. assuming every culture, let alone alien culture, would respect let alone aspire to upper-middle class american ideas of ball room socailism.
Oh no, lol
Recovery team: "This is the final entry. Where's the crew?"
for the federations sake , don't let them discover Data
Oh yeah, exterminatus.
@@johnneill9740 Just tell them he's fully embraced the Omnissiah...
He's err, a special servitor. Definitely not a man of iron.
Probably safe if Adeptus Mechanicus get him first. Probably
just tell he is a cyborg
"This is Captain Jean Luc Picard of..."
"WAAAAAAAAUUUUUGH!!!!!"
😂😂😂
@@ConsueloWubba top comment loool
"We had thought the Klingons were aggressive. We were so very wrong."
Praise the Omnissiah. We are the Borg you will adapt to service us. We serve the Omnissiah. Resistance is futile. You will be purged corrupted Heretics. Your biological distinctiveness will be added to the collective. Prepare for exterminatus unclean machine spirits. ect.. ect .. goes on for like 10 minutes.
Captain picard: you wanne fight for fun.. i wont
Ork: ey no fair
Data: i am sure the klingons would accomidate your want for war
Ork: 😮 ....😃
A Galaxy Class Starship would probably fit INSIDE a standard Imperial frigate... let that sink in.
Maybe an Imperial frigate's cargo bay, depending on which author is writing the scenario, so the frigates' measurements are skewed by default XD
a single Proton Torpedo blew up the death star. remind me how big that thing was?
@IronWarhorsesFun 1. Star Wars uses Proton torpedoes. Post is talking Star Trek, which uses Photon torpedoes. Different warhead materials and different yield capabilities.
2. 2 protons were needed to enter the Death Star's weak point to blow it up.
@@alexspencer5926 yeah that weak point that intentionally had a straight path all the way to the battle stations reactor core?
wouldn't have blown up if that wasn't there. (plus you needed the mystical force to even be able to pull it off without getting blasted.)
star fleet wouldn't even be able to engage the death star since its ENTIRE surface was absolutely covered in capital ship grade turbo laser turrets & the planetary grade shields it had.
and? the earliest version of the enterprise could destroy continents. trek weapons and shields are IMMENSLY powerful.
Imagine a space marine boarding party in a federation starship
@@GHOSTSTALKER90 use forcefields and flood the deck with various gases until something works and there numerous ways to stop a boarding party from being too dangerous. also if you had a really evil captain you could just transport them into space or if your close enough a sun.
a klingon ship would be hard everybody is armed and klingons have supposedly superior biology to humans.
Not very happy, ill tell you that... Tight quarters and all..
They would simply be beamed to outer space within a couple of seconds?
@@Cavscout5096and that every federation crewman has a marine disintegration ray (aka phaser).
The marines would kick ass in melee, but they’d never get there.
@axell964 why don't they do that in Star Trek shows? The amount of times Voyager was boarded and didn't just beam them off the ship.
I say the biggest difference is 40k is able and WILLING to blow up planets. Not as often as memes make it out to be, but they would absolutely do it as a show of force to prove they are not fucking around.
I mean the federation would likely take offense, but I doubt they'd cower in abject defeat at such devastation either. I'm fairly certain that universes has defensive measures against planet destroying weapons albeit maybe not in a ready supply.
@@starburst98 remember in generations the USS enterprise encounter the tech to oneshot a sun. They had the tech to "destroy" a planet atleast since wrath. The fact that they never used it is because the other races don't do it either because of MAD. And plot reasons. And since in new trek the ufp can beam to other star systems they could just blow up planets from home. Like the nekrons.
Don’t forget, Captain Sisko used a species-specific virus bomb to end a fight with the Marquis in a few minutes because he was mad.
@@stevehagen9804
"Don’t forget, Captain Sisko used a species-specific virus bomb to end a fight with the Marquis in a few minutes because he was mad."
That's a good point. I'd also add sterilizing planets of all life isn't a new thing to Trek. General order 24 has been a thing since the 23rd century and a random Klingon ship once burned an entire world just to destroy the breadcrumb trail message hidden in said life's DNA.
And while not super common both the Federation and the Dominion have exploded stars before. So blowing up a world isn't, in and of itself, likely to make the Federation curl up into a ball.
@@starburst98 At that point, the Q might get involved. Then 40K would have a massive problem..!
making comparisons with the Star Trek universe is always difficult for many reasons starting from the fact that technologies increase or decrease their power based on the usefulness of the plot vice versa in other narrative universes the power is quite "stable". It is quite mind-blowing that a technology as common as a torpedo has the power of 700 megatons but when the Dominion attacks Earth the Fleet Headquarters is simply in ruins instead of having a huge glassed-in parking lot from California to Texas.
The antimatter charge actually dissipates with distance as the propulsion draws from the warhead. But it also has a dialable warhead for power
some guy made a number up, without looking into what those numbers mean
@@atankersview given the dominion's proclivities there is no good reason to think they would dial it back. and there is no way it doesn't hit with enough antimatter to level that city and then some.
Well comparing it to things in 40k, like 200-or-so gigaton torpedoes it still seems a little on the smaller side, even discounting the visual anachronisms in the source material.
there is an actual lore reason for this, the photon torpedos use matter-antimatter reactions to generate an explosion, this can be changed at will. If they wanted to glass the planet they would have.
Id imagine the fate of the federation in m42 would be similar to the Tau. Basically, as long as the federation doesn't start shit too much, the imperium has too many other problems to solve to agnoledge the federations existance
The environment will be more dangerous short and medium term. They’ll have to speed run their own Age of Strife, while being lower on the tech tree than humans were in 40k. The Imperium doesn’t use AI for very valid reasons.
@@AlsadsajsAlsadsajs-vl7th this is very true
@@AlsadsajsAlsadsajs-vl7th I think one of the extremely major differences between the federation and Dark Age humanity is the “relatively” consistent moral compass. The AI were used as slave class labor and were horribly abused by humanity as a whole.
The federation is far more likely to subscribe to a more ethical approach to AI, and we actually see the conclusion of such debates in the Trial of Data. The implications of ignoring the sentience of AI has been touched on and overcome.
Oh I should also mention that I approach that topic from the perspective of one of the key events that led to the Age of Strife.
@@cesarfortson8245 but what about the chaos gods dont they just corrupt the A.I?
@@cesarfortson8245 The AI uprising in 40K is due to Gods messing whit things and not in how they where treated i dont think the Federation has God magic antivirus installed
Star Trek: “Captain, there’s an alien ship firing at us!”
*”Hailing frequencies, Mr Crusher.”*
40K: “Captain, there’s an alien-“
*”Exterminatus! Fire cyclonic torpedoes.”*
Talk is cheap... explosions are pretty.
40k: hand over your aliens for murder and join the empire
the amusing thing is the comparison is pretty redudant, in that unless the federation are literally drop right into a active sector the imperium isnt even likly to know they exist. Its canon that they lose entire subsectors and even sectors every decade due to misfiled paperwork. they are constantly losing and rediscovering world on a daily basis.
Yea the federation might go undiscovered for 100s of years as long as they don't explore too much.
@@charlebrownga i all honesty i really wouldnt want to be the federation even if they didnt find the imperium. As it doesnt really matter who or where you are in the 40k universe it makes the evil-startrek universes look like playschool. Even the good guys are brainwashing naive idiots. Id give good odds some good natured scientist would disvocer the warp decided its a nice place to explorer and doom everyone well before the imperium turns up to exterminatus the remains.
@@charlebrowngafederation not exploring? LMAO
@@tomraineofmagigor3499as crazy as it sounds I think the Federation, once they realize what has happened, would lay low and get the lay of the land.
@@indetigersscifireview4360 I can't help remembering Janeway poking into things she shouldn't have
You forgot that in that spot where you dropped the federation into wh40k, they'd still have to deal with the tau and the orks BEFORE meeting the imperium
Took them off the table. And tau are on the other side of the galaxy in the eastern fringe
I feel like the Feds and Tau would be allies unless something weird happened at first contact. They have a lot of similarities.
@@rolypoly4920 Being commies? XD
@@atankersview still have to deal with necrons & nids since they are in the path of some hive fleets, & the federations placement puts them directly on top of some necron dynasties (halo stars).
(they really don't like younger races on their property, & answer trespasses with wars of annihilation)
@@rolypoly4920 they would be until the Feds find out about the Vespids mind control helmets, the chemical sterilisation of Humans living within the T'au empire, the Kroots canabal habits etc etc
So... in the pursuit of knowledge of the universe they find themselves in, the entirety of the Federation falls to Tzeentch.
Just as planned.
And just as always Tzeentch is gonna take credit for transporting the UFP to the 40k galaxy even though he probably had fuck all to do with it.
Just as planned.
Star Fleet to the Master O’ Plans, the Klingons to Khorn, the Borg to Nurgle, the Romulans to Slannesh, Easy pickings for the warp entities. Imagine the Vulcans and Betazoids…. Un shielded psychic peoples? Food for demons.
Q: "Uh uh. We don't do that here."
*Snaps his fingers and the Federation is restored back to their reality with no clear memory of Tzeentch while Q just slaps Tzeentch sending him screeching back to his library.*
"Go back to interpreting the visions of your bumbling servant Kairos Fateweaver you 1 dimensional uninteresting mind of singular desire and no interesting character or freewill of your own."
@@JohnLevi-t1w Yeah….. apparently you never heard of the civil war they had or that whole non interference thing they thought of afterwards. The Q seem omnipotent by trek standards and even there they are not omnipotent or even immortal actually. It gets better, Orikan and Trazen can play with time as readily and easily as any Q ever could. The scary part? They are nowhere near the top tier power of the Necrons. Furthermore, given the extra dimensional nature of the warp I doubt the Q would have any influence over the immaterium. The Q might be quite a threat to even greater demons. Next to a warp god………. Yeah. Then we might discuss the orcs. If enough believe Q are just puny hummies, they ARE JUST PUNY HUMMIES! Look, I like trek. Militarily speaking the trek universe is kinda sad. The average battle fleet (and I mean battle fleet not a task force) could body the alpha quadrant by itself. The 24th century would be like a training exercise compared to war in the grim darkness. There just not comparable. Look how traumatized Star fleet was by “the quickening”, Wolf 359, and a little real ground combat on a backwater. Let them watch an extra dimensional being literally tear their friend a new @$$ hole before walking out that now gaping sphincter with some friends who just wanna rape everything with claw hands. For gods sake the Cadians literally kept fighting on a planet literally cracking apart under their feet. The Alpha quadrant was emotionally scarred by Cardassia’s well earned bombardment. The average light cruiser would have just virus bombed them from orbit. The sheer low value of life alone to the grim darkness would shock anyone from the alpha quadrant.
@@mikewaterfield3599 You do realize I am joking here right? No need to make a fight over it however I never once said the Q are omnipotent however their abilities to manipulate the universe and time is something they can do casually and I have no idea why you want to bring in outliers that talk more about the cultures within the Imperium itself rather then actual argument of power. Compared to the C'Tan Q can casual manipulate reality far easier on a greater scale without needed advanced tools C'Tan often use like the Breath of the gods. Frankly the Warp is overrated and isn't that special. Mentioning ships in this argument are meaningless to associate to independent cosmic beings who snap their fingers and reality is different without the the rituals, beliefs, and warp souls the Chaos gods feed upon to sustain themselves.
Different setting different circumstances and cosmic rules and obstacles with a different worldbuilding and attitude and nation building with different capabilities and detriments. Star Trek and Warhammer 40k are not the same and neither is Warhammer 40k the same as Xeelee Sequence nor is Xeelee Sequence or A Fire Upon the Deep. That would be a false equivalency.
I ain't here to argue that the Q are hyperversal or massively complex multiversal no I'm just joking.
_"Oh my oh my oh my, Jean Luc. What kind of mess did you get yourself into this time? The Imperium? Really? DID YOU KNOW IT IS RUN BY AN ANCIENT RULER COMPLETELY OUT OF HIS MIND?? You know what would be really fun? Put on your best Napoleonic era uniform and let's go visit him in his chambers."_
*snaps fingers *
Next second: Q was irrevertably evaporated by a tremendous galaxy splitting warpstorm randomly farted by THE EMPEROR of Mankind. And Jean-Luc "Locutus" Picard got himself enlisted as an expolrator in the Adeptus Mechanicus cult.
@@МихаилРозов-ю9п
Is this _before_ or _after_ a platoon of psykers turn Picard's brain into melted ice cream as twelve custodes beat beat him to death?
pretty sure the energy output and radioactive heat of the modern 42nd millenium throne room would be enough to kill Picard unarmored in seconds, and that Q guy? i imagine his powers would be badly disrupted by the warp and the emperors psychic emanations.
Star trek has no equivalent for the warp or warp powers, it would rot the minds of their telepaths and ascended beings easily.
Just be thankful it is Jean Luc sent and James T Kirk - could have a whole different host of issue with certain husbands. hahahaha
@@Vihara2
Go back in time and just dust everything, problem solved, trek wins.
About the teleporters, I would argue that imperial teleporters could Bypass federation shields since they utilize the Warp, but I don't think space marines would be of to much use as a boarding party because federation ships have smaller corridors, Tempestor scions would be better suited for the task
imagine the moment some redshirt on a planet see a mountain move, needing a moment to process that is not a mountain, but a colossal warmchine
@@night2501 * warhorn Sounds*
@@wolfoffenris9951 I was thinking the same thing.....
Red shirt simultaneously pisses and shits himself instantaneously - unable to fully comprehend the grand scale, the heavily-armed horror, the walking cathedral of worship covered in arms of all sizes and types with void shields occasionally flickering in bright, dancing arcs and spheres of light from deflected incoming fire, and the complete cyber-mechanical majesty of one of the Omnissiah's great children of war..... an Imperator-class Titan.
scanners detect it and torpedo. Done.
And let's say it was deactivated and unusually well hidden, then he says "beam me up" and then torpedo and done.
@@stemill1569 dude, yes, that's the TAU response to them basically, titans do have their defenses so may be a bit harder to take down, but even ignoring that you can not ignore their effect on morale
@@night2501 about defence
Feds have more torpeedoes
I enjoyed this vid, even if it was limited in details. Which is fine for YT formats. Quick things to point out:
SHIELDS:
Imperium uses void shields, which are far superior to energy shields (which they also have, but don't use for tactical reasons in void battle because they are not useful in 40K) since void shields literally shunts energy and mass into the warp. They can be overloaded, but frequency changes which is a major thing in ST is not a thing in 40k. To point out just how powerful the shields are, they are considered the most advanced shield system in the entire setting, which is due to them being made in the dark age of technology (DAOT) or golden age, which is several thousands of years older than ST tech. Teleportation only works against void shields if you can teleport using warp tech - which ST does not have. Energy shields on the other hand does not stop trans dimensional teleportation - which is what warp teleportation is. Its also worth mentioning that the warships of the Imperium usually have several void shields layered.
HULLS:
The Imperiums ships have meters thick super dense armor, so robust that ramming is a used tactic in which the attacking ships just assumes it will smash through anything it faces. Which they most often also do. The Federation has paper thin armor that is shown time and time again to shred against almost anything that gets through the shields.
SPEED:
While people assume the Imperium has slow and lumbering ships, that's completely wrong. In lore its been stated that Imperial Battleships - which are around 10km long behemoths - reaches 0.7 and in some cases even 0.75 C , which is 70- 75% of light speed.
RANGE:
Imperial doctrine states that striking an unaware enemy with lances from half a system away is prudent - and seeing as battles are fought from planets away and while closing distance one can assume that ST, that fight in super close ranges would be ill prepared to fight enemies that shoot them with laser-particle beam weapons from light minutes away. Then it just gets worse and worse the closer the ships get as that lets the Imperials use macro weaponry and saturate regions of space with kinetic kill vehicles. And that's if they don't just use a Nova cannon to blow vast areas up.
NUMBERS: - not counting everything else, the fact that the Federation only ever had a land army of 50k in size just kind of makes a joke of the scale of things. The Imperium has a standing army of a minimum of 500 trillion, so vast (and this is only the Astra Militarum) that they themselves don't know how big it is. Loosing billions of men is nothing to the Imperium and could be considered a clerical error for all they care. To put it into perspective, the Imperium has about as many Hive worlds, each with populations in the hundreds of billions up to the trillions, as there are soldiers in the Federation. :P While the Federation can churn out ships faster, seeing as they are incredibly small, not even considered escorts to the Imperium, thats on a per ship level. Yes it might take a 100 years to build a battleship that dwarfs anything the Federation has, but the Imperium has untold numbers of ship yards, even tens of thousands of planets called Forge Worlds that work on thousands of such ships at once. Basically, the Imperium does not work with ship numbers in the hundreds of even thousands, but in the millions and billions.
all 40k ships can, with enough time, increase in speed to crazy speeds, so long as there isnt debree to damage them going soo fast, but it takes a LONG time to speed up that much, and at those speeds, their ability to slow down or turn is very bad. ST beats them in manueverability easily.
@@Vihara2 maneuverability is not really a requirement for imperium vessels since they are so heavily armored & shielded. (while being covered in guns in every direction)
its like a gnat biting an elephant, it has to bite millions (way more then that I'm certain) of times to kill the elephant, yet the elephant only has to hit the gnat once to kill it.
The man knows what he's talking about.
I can picture Eldrads raction to the Federation showing up... 'Ahh more Mon Keigh cats paws..... ohhh and how intoxicatingly naive'
Or worse imagine Vect's reaction...
@@Quark214 vect and dark eldar would probably have a blast raiding federation space being able to take millions if not billions of slaves without much of an issue
Well, you judge the federation naive.
You never remember that their diplomatic service is home tome of the most vile, evil, ruthless and effective hagglers in that universe.
@trazyntheinfinite9895 i don't much about star trek so can you give me some examples then
As a Perpetual, the Emperor was probably a Starfleet admiral back in the day. After having a telepathic chat with his old friends, He sends them back to avoid timeline shenanigans. Maybe asks for some repl... STCs as parting gift.
Even before I clicked on the video I knew the answer already, I even laughed.
Yeah as long as the infantry doesn't get hit by phasers on their highest setting it's an easy fight. Note on highest setting the target is disintegrated instantly. Like being shot by antimatter. This would also apply to Astartes. With that said it's not going to be enough for Star Trek to have a real chance at beating the Imperium. Though teleporting a quantum bomb onto an Imperial ship is possible. Numbers still count which I think Star Trek fans forget.
@@John2r1 Another problem is that for IoM warcrimes are standard operating procedure.
The 1st, 2nd and 3rd Astarte's assault teams get taken out and then a 4th team teleports in with a librarian who holds up a shield just long enough for the squad to detonate a nuclear bomb.
@louiscypher4186 They generally don't use nukes. More like a vortex bomb. Also I'm not sure that the Phasers are affected by psychic energy. Though just handing out some Iron Halos or figuring out how to make a drop shield to put in front of them would work well enough.
I'm not saying that the Imperium can't figure out a way to take out a ship. I'm saying it's not going to be as easy as Astartes teleports onto ship and charges a line of mostly humans with Phasers and magically wins due to plot armor.
The federation would basically be the less durable Necrons in 40k. Not to mention what happens when the federation starts have random psykers appearing in their population? One second you see a red shirt next second you see a portal to the warp and demons coming out. It’s the Age of Strife all over again
@@John2r1 realistically phasers won't matter much against astartes even tho they can disintegrate them. Space Marines are multitudes faster than regular humans and their reaction times are in the milliseconds. There's been multiple accounts of them being able to bullet time or feats just below bullet time. Any engagement federation troops have against astartes wouldn't be close just from the speed and reaction time alone, not to mention iron halos could offer even more protection.
Wait I never thought about this: arent the Star Trek Replicators some kind of ultra primitive STC?
@@ghkevilhd44 yes and no, it's basically what the imperium would consider a perfect STC able to make anything it has specs for without the obvious ai stcs have.
@@iguran6035 I think you both ment Asurans from Atlantis series
@@Танкозера I have no earthly idea what that is so... No I don't?
Hmm... Let's see, very friendly spaceships vs a walking church, church on a ship and nuns with guns... I think I'm gonna go with the church on this one.
One little factor about the Emperor . He's not 14ft tall. There was a Psychic Blank who saw him once who described him as just an average man. Not some kind of glowing giant but a man. The variations of his appearance is due to his psychic projections of himself.
I mean Magnus has been show the ability to not just project a psychic image of himself but also change his physical power with the warp. So big E being the super duper giga alpha + Psyker I dont find it unreadable to believe he just changed his from to be a 14 foot tall giga chad. also we have pieces of his armor and they are MASSIVE. so I think its more likely the blank that saw him was also influenced to a degree since even blanks are no immune to super powerful psykers.
@@Loremaster28 Actually they are to an extent immune to psychic influence. So it's actually possible that the Emperor didn't change anything about himself from his usual psychic projection and yet the Blank saw the truth of his physical form.
Also the armor worn by the Emperor was power armor not normal body armor. The same writers and people who claim the Emperor to be a 14 ft tall giant are the same ones that claim Space Marines are 9ft plus tall when there are sources of them being as short as 6 ft 11in tall.
Literally there are people who claim every Astartes is the same height as the Tybros the Red Wake in debates.
It's more likely that the average man in appearence wasn't average height but wasn't 14 ft tall either. Considering the Emperor is sitting on his throne unarmored.
Armored in power armor befitting his station in society as Emperor he could easily be 14 ft tall.
@@John2r1 You americans and your foot fetish, give me real measurements.
I've always taken the view point that everything written about 40k is considered to be propaganda.
@@John2r1 that most likely wasn’t his true form as even blanks can be over powered by a big enough psyker like the emperor who also projects himself to look like whatever one would believe him to look like
In a vs, I think I'd follow the advice of the great Stan Lee. The side whose name is on top of the comic is going to win
That's not always true though.
@sonofccn lol power armor vs red shirts. Yeah.... yeah...... one Squad of Kreig shock troops win
Does not apply to Getter Emperor.
@@SeanoMitchell
"@sonofccn lol power armor vs red shirts. Yeah.... yeah...... one Squad of Kreig shock troops win"
Way to miss the point in favor of fanboyism.
I hate to break it to you but those Krieg shock troops would only win if the author willed it just like the author could have the Krieg troops all beamed up, disarmed and placed in a holding cell.
So you like 40K? Great. Its a fun universe even if I prefer Warhammer fantasy. Same if you think the Imperium would beat the Federation. We're all entitled to our opinions but don't mistake that as some objective truth because neither side is remotely consistent.
@sonofccn man i touched a nerve. You can make multiple comparisons at once. But fine. One dreadnought. That good for you.
Knowing Star Trek, they would figure out that Imperium ships use this dimension called "The Warp" for star travel, then develop some deflector dish modification that shuts off the ability to access it. Then they realize that they accidentally discovered a way to shut off access to the Warp completely, both ways, permanently on a galactic scale. Like no more FTL, no more psychics, even the Chaos Gods would wither and die. Then they would argue forever over whether its morally right to do it because so much of the galaxy's culture is based on the Warp. Even as they are being attacked by them.
Right up until Chaos affects their AI computers which would go bonkers and start turning the life support systems off on their ships which would lead to them being forced to now use that really powerful tech which in turn would badly hamper all other efforts given just how AI dependent they are in both ship control AND research. The UFP would not just have to survive the Imperium but everything else in the galaxy with them which would include chaos which is the reason AI in the Golden Age of Mankind rebelled. Hell to this day in 40k you can't make AI as it always decides killing all organic life is the choice to make moments after you turn it on.
@@taliawtf6944 My in-depth 40K lore knowledge is a bit rusty, but I don't recall advanced computers/AI automatically going insane due to Chaos. The Tau have them and never have a problem that I can remember.
The thing is... if you actually completely cut off access to the warp both ways... That means all the dead souls cant pass on to the warp when they die... forcing them to accumulate in real-space.... triggering an en-masse zombie apocalypse because Nobody gets to die anymore. The necrons would become the only side able to win because A: they dont have souls and B: they have weapons that completely disintegrate their target, leaving no corpse to zombify. Federation still loses of course.
We actually have a in universe example of what happens when reality is cut off from the warp. There is a section of space known as the Pariah Nexus a place where the necrons have set up technology that cuts reality off from the warp. The problem is is that human souls exist within the warp even while they are alive and having ones connection severed from the warp causes something called The Stilling. You gradually loose all motivation and will until eventually you fall into a catatonic state and die. Essentially cutting the galaxy off from the warp will kill every living thing in the galaxy since reality and the warp are two sides of the same coin where one cannot properly function without the other.
@@accywacky2699 it would be like firing the Halo array from Halo. All organic life that possess a soul would shrivel up and die and it would be a slow death.
One consideration ro remember is the mechanicus, if they decide that tech heresy is being conducted nothing is off the table fir dealing with starfleet ships and a techpriest could probably sweet talk a federation computer to just beam the entire crew into the void.
On the other hand if the mechanicus deams starfleet tech as something worthy of preservation they would severy hamstring the imperium to the point if not trying to destroy Starfleet ships but tather trying to board and seize them
Are there any examples in canon of techpriests doing that to non-native enemy systems?
The mechanicus's reaction would be an extreme political factor, however, they would be unable to affect the federation's technology. The mechanicus cling to the faded knowledge of humanity's once great technologies, holding fragments of technical knowledge within a labyrinth of bureaucracy and superstition. The machine spirits they believe they convene with are nothing more than the interfaces and inbuilt machinery of the machines they are now impotent to understand. AI's like the federation's computers have been shown to an actively despise the mechanicus. If anything, the federation may be able to enact electronic warfare against the haphazardly built systems the mechanicus no longer understand.
true, if the mechanicum see the federation as a faction worth investigating, they will quickly assemble a cruishing fleet of very advanced mechanicus ships, with weapons imperial vessels do not have, and would wreck the federations s**t. A sufficiently talented and prepared mechanicus Lord would be able to mentally overpower most AI or internal ship security on any ST vessel without much issue.
Or the ST AI becomes corrupted and rebels just like in the 40k universe. There are reasons why the ad mech and imperium are they way they are
@mrfigaloopierre9610 Imperium is still in its current degraded state more advance then the Federation the Tech Priests of Mars also speak the Language of the Machine something the Federation would have no idea about and lastly people forget as soon as you enter the 40K universe the rules of the game are out the window there are 4 Techno godz in 40K all of them would jump on this new AI and corrupt the hell out of it
It all depends on whose lawn the feds land and if the Talk no Jutsu is possible. Vs Tau - Federation lives, Eldar - might live, Nids - everything dies, Orks - smashed, D Eldar - smashed in a different way, Imps - burned, Necrons - atomized or on a display shelf, Chaos - on a spike (the impaled orifice may differ depending on who they meet).
Also correct me if I'm wrong, fans of both universes, but I'm pretty sure a single librarian would wipe any ST ship by himself. We can't really compare them, like Dora the Explorer vs any Rogue Trader.
Also. I'd love to read some stories about a 40k ship being farted out through Warp into ST universe. That would be fun.
The Federation has basically already befriended the elder, and they probably wouldn't have to really fight the Orks or the Tyrannies (it isn't very fun to. get nuked from several light years away). They would probably lose to the Necrons pretty quickly, but their technology would certainly give the Necrons something to think about. Also, if someone comes on board a ST ship, they would probably just get locked in by force fields, then destroyed by a couple of phasers.
@mrfigaloopierre9610the thing is, the Asuryani (Craftworld Eldar, what most just call Eldar) don't care about any species but their own. The INSTANT they think the Federation can't help them, the Federation is getting dragged into the Webway for the Drukhari to feast on.
And consider how arrogant the Aeldari are, that'll be very quick
@@sev1120 The Federation is far too dangerous for the Drukhari to mess with (as compared to say, the Imperium). The craft world Eldar, while they aren't easy to get along with, given that the Federation was able to ally with the Klingons; diplomatically speaking, the Eldar are light work.
@mrfigaloopierre9610 Klingons are child's play compared to the Eldar. The Aeldari will ONLY do something if it's in their best interest, and they can see into the future.
Plus, something to note about Drukhari is that Custodes sometimes have difficulty keeping eyes on the slippery bastards. And it doesn't matter how good their army is, the Drukhari will attack their civilian population centers and leave before reprisal can be delivered
Simple math. During Leviathans attack on the Blood Angels the combined chapters brought well over 100,000 ships, and their full compliments, to the fight.
During the Dominion War Starfleet undertook a massive upgrade by adding a whopping 14,000 ships.
Underwhelming is a very inadequate word.
In an all out fight Starfleet would fall very quickly with the Imperium suffering minor losses.
😂😂😂 Starfleet ships could cut up imperial ships, like sashimi... They're a joke comparably. Few star trek torpedoes can break a planet...
@playlistnor Incorrect, 40k ships hit significantly harder than fed ships and the 40k ships can take a massive beating from their own weapons, meanwhile fed "capital" ships can get blown up by debris that came from a cruiser, which would be the same size as the MANY macro shells being fired towards them, which hit in the multi gigaton range wheras photon torpedoes barely push 1 gigaton, so the flying saucers are actually the joke, and you talk about cracking planets like that's not something the imperium does on a Tuesday, ever heard of a cyclonic torpedo?
Yeah they hear about how it takes decades if not centuries for the imperium to build ships and act like they have few of them when not only they have a sh*tton of warships but due to their rugged and robust construction as long as the warship wasn't hit at point blank range by a nova cannon or the plasma reactor exploded the ship can be rebuilt
@@playlistnor And yet they never do.
Don't fool yozrself. Starzrek just says all these things, but theecweapons can't do any of it. That's why the dominion didn't glas starfleet command. It's because theycouldn't, because the startrek torpedos are comparable to tacktical nules, at BEST. Usualy more lke a normal 500kg planebomb
You need to consider ship type, the Imperium uses ships only effective at relatively close ranges, the photon torpedos of federation ships would be able to hit imperium vessels far outside their range.
Id say its going to depend on whether or not you believe startrek official spoken lore in dialogue or whats actually born out on screen or in the games.
If you believe official spoken lore in dialogue. A single starfleet officer with a hand phasor solos an entire chapter of space marines without taking a scratch, such is the awsome power of the mk2 hand phaser and federation shield belt.
If you believe the games, starfleet ground tactical capabilities are approximately on par with modern infantry, only carrying less gear.
If you believe on screen representation starfleet ground tactical capabilities are approximately on par with napoleonic era irregular skirmishers.
And that carries over to basically all aspects of federation capabilities.
Realistically, imperium of man overlooks the federations presence for 6000 years due to the inefficiencies of the beurocratic process and other more pressing concerns within the imperiums territory
Meanwhile the federation is forced to adapt to the new setting as it explores the galaxy and weathers small scale attacks from other 40k factions and cultural infiltration from the tau empire.
If the federation is able to weather these environmental factors it will have evolved to point that it is unrecognisable as the federation we see in startrek. 🤔
I gotta disagree here, the sheer violence scale of 40k compared to the warfare of Trek is a massive disparity.
The mk2 and personal shields even in Trek’s best light just don’t compare to something like the Necron’s weaponry, and the space marines have handedly delt with Necron before.
It’s also to note that even though the federation are some of the best trained explorers in scifi, they are naval engineers and scientists primarily, most of which preform irreplaceable positions on their assigned ships, meanwhile the imperiums basic infantry are completely expendable zelot fodder, any and every one of them has been traumatized into a murder-hungry trooper.
Space marines meanwhile in their most mellow lore exceed all human standards significantly, even the strongest Klingon would be helplessly tossed around by a basic unspecialized marine.
Even something like the borg would quickly become overwhelmed by the sheer amount of firepower that is par for 40k.
Honestly the topic seems to be completely one sided, it’s like asking who would win a fight, scooby doo or Superman, they both share the topic of “classic cartoon characters” but they’re a completely separate setting and intensity.
Trek is about the discovery and complications of space, 40k is about violent space war.
6000 years the Federation would be wiped out by Orks or Tyranids or Dark Eldar hell even an old Necron waking up would wipe them out the Imperium of man is a lot faster to react that people like to admit it might take them 10+ years to react but that is becose the Universe is on the brink of ending due to Tyranids right now
What. No. Even if they have better tech it's still manned by a normal person. And astarte is stronger, faster, waaay smarter, probably has 200+ years of war under their belt of the worst foes that the federations can't even imagine.
And space marines can shake off wounds that would obliterate lesser men. So they might kill 1 or 2. But the bolter will explode them, the marines in melee with jetpack will tear them apart.
An army would struggle against a company. Let alone a full chapter including tanks, artillery, air support. Marines have really no equal in star trek for the violence and raw power.
Much to my shagrin, I'll just point out how absurd what characters in the show have claimed phasers to be capable of.
Though I will note that they are definitely not capable of this as if they could do everything characters claim they can do, most episodes where they're used would be resolved in under a minute.
So, If what I can only assume is starfleet propaganda were true, a single starfleet officer could simply stand in the middle of a battle field, point their phaser to the sky, pull the trigger and vaporise, (or superheat) everything on the battlefield that isn't protected by void shields (or uses active electronic interference in the event said officer choose to use auto targeting instead of omnidirectional spray)
Anything with void shields that survived would then be scanned, th phaser recalibrated then each target destroyed in turn by a single shot.
Meanwhile, the officers' standard issue shield belt (offen not issued in 99.9% of actual deployments) would be capable of tanking anything short of a titans' main armourment.
That said, they'd literally have no special defence vs. psyckers, so all bets are off if a psyker survives the opening salvo or makes the first move 🤔
Though again, I will stress there are precious few examples of a hand phasor actually being showcased using any one of those abilities, let alone in combination with each other.
At best, it's usually inferred to have been used that way off screen.
And I do agree, starfleet officers in general would not actually do this.
... but if you believe the hype about their college campus training, they are the best of the best of the best of THE BEST, have formidable combat abilities and are excellent tacticians that wouldn't hesitate to make the winning move when needed (despite hesitation to act being the signature move of active officers in the field)
So when going up against these hypothetical supermen with their magic weapons, although many factions have x-factors to overcome, 40k would still have trouble doing so.
this particular take on starfleet has been rolled back somewhat as the show slowly became more serialised, and writers realised making things OP like that creats long term story problems if the resolution to every scenario is always just one click of a button away, but the claims by characters in the show are still there, particularly in the earlier episodes of each series.
to me, it just comes off as the brain washed rhetoric instilled in the minds of fresh recruits, not anything that should be taken seriously.
As such a more realistic take is that a brash arrogant young officer steps onto the battlefield, having forgotten their shield belt, struggles to code their phasor correctly and is instantly disillusioned by the rudest of possible awakenings.
@src6339 Yeah it has to be propaganda. Cause everything we actually see suggest they're nowhere near capable of it. DS9 one of my favorites has an episode they're fighting dominion ground forces and they don't use this type of thing. Suggesting it's not capable of that. Or else why wouldn't they. The forces are maimed and nearly broken when Sysko shows up.
But 40k? Were shown in lore, books, games what it's like. For instance a bolter is a rocket propelled rpg bullet capable of ripping into tanks. That thing hits a man they more or less are vaporized into a mist of blood and gore. And most sources show cases what a bolter can do to a mfer.
So IDK. If you take the TV shows nothing any faction shows is even on parody with the humble lasgun. Which is actually a fairly high powered laser weapon that will melt holes the size of a fist through a mfer it hits. It only is a "joke" because what it's used to fight are typically enemies with high end armor and weapons like astarte power armor. But by itself is more deadly than what phasers are shown and used like in the series. With the very few exceptions they turn it to max and a person is turned to dust. But it's always an unarmormed person. Not a 7 to 9 foot talk super soldier in power armor aka a running tank that can hit speeds into the 200mph. So I kinda doubt it'd do more than leave an astartes really ticked off yoh left scorch marks on his shiny battle plates.
So I guess it depends on the source. For me I take what the actual series show as priority. If it shows me star fleet shields are practically useless I get the idea that's how they are.
Also could be a convo of theoretical potential versus what it actually does in the field. Kinda like what a theoretical tiger, panther or T34 can do versus how they actually perform in use. Sorta like the spec says X, but it really does Y because of a bunch of factors.
So that could be an interesting convo. Maybe phasers can't do what they're claimed to be able to do to construction, field restrictions and factors that make it impractical or impossible to use like that in reality.
Also side bar. The federation setting their weapons to stun in almost all encounters would get so many of them killed in a war. Cause if you try to stun a 3 ton walking tank of hatred and violence he's going to turn around and fire bolters at you if you're lucky. And nastier stuff like chemical weapons, plasma guns, voltike rifles, melta.. Or run at you with an assortment of brutal and insane melee weapons. You won't get a second shot. So the federation would have to stop being the federation and even than they'd still lose. Weight of numbers is the single most signficiant reason they have no hope. 18 legiond each at about 30,000 to 350,000 astartes per legion ramming down on you from every side and angel is just too much.
Now do an in-depth view of Transformers vs Warhammer 40K.
Which Transformers, becuase depending on version it could get messy (the UK unique Simon Furman comics alone got seriously messed up including a zombie robot city as cover to resurrect a plan to turn Cyberton itself into a mobile battlestation)
@akumaking1 it's called the dark age of technology
@@akumaking1 The siege of Cybertron would be an absolute mess for whoever invades it.
Baring the star saber or other planet cracking weapons. 40k.
@@AAhmou especially if you manage to wake up what by any reasonable measure is the slumbering chaos god that formed the planet and the transformers rave beneath its surface (again depending on version)
“We have arrived and it is now that we preform our charge, in fealty to the God emperor our undying lord and by the grace of the golden thrown, I hereby sign your death warrant of the entire world, consigning a billion souls to oblivion. May the imperial justice account in all balance, the emperor protects.”
Once a Mechanicus gets their metal mitts on a warp drive the Imperium could actually be saved lol.
Except the federation is filled with Xenos, so they can't study it
@mrfigaloopierre9610 When has that ever stopped them? These bois love Xenos tech. (Sometimes, in secret)
"Did Magnus do anything wrong?"
I mean, we all know the first primarch to be found was Horus😏😏😏
Magnus was told to do nothing. Magnus did not do that.
Its what big E deserved for having 18 hyper autistic kids
BC His Lordship is carrier for autism 😂
@@atankersview20. He killed 2 of them.
@@atankersview It's what Big E deserved for not taking Magnus aside, in private, after the Council of Nikaea and told him exactly WHY he needed all psychers to stop practicing warpcraft and sorcery.
Had he done that, and had Magnus known exactly why it was so important, I don't think that Magnus would have made his mistake and would have found the next best way possible to warn his father.... even if it was by fucking carrier pigeon... and just hoped that his message made it in time.
That's the thing about many pro star trek fans. They talk about the theoretical ability of star trek ships, but their actual ability pales in comparison. For example, I have heard from some people that phasers would disintegrate Astartes and ships, except for the fact that there've been many times where phaser have hit unshielded ships and they only to take some damage.
and not much damage... in that khaaaaaaan film, the phasers appeared to do less damage than a ww2 4 inch gun
id argue transporters would be the biggest potential factor. if they unaffected by void shields, just beam nukes everywhere like they do in Star Gate later on. but the whole mindset of the Federation is just incapable of fighting the kind of war it would take to fight the Imperium. Destroy a few dozen ships and their morale is done.
That's mostly due to plot convince. If the shows showed the true theoretical power of the weapons there wouldn't be any drama. Theoretically Trek weapons ain't no slouch, I think a more apt comparison would be with Wars, not 40k, due to a completely different style of universe and scale.
@@Max-hw7xl
It is also possible that the shields in Star Trek are of no use against the teleportarium technology in WH40K.
Which means that at the beginning of every battle a group of Astartes appears on the bridge of the ships or hundreds of Imperial Guards rampage through the ships.
@@sylviarohge4204 absolutely a possibility, tho given wh40k already has a massive advantage in my books, i was trying to think of something that could make the fights more even for the sake of discussion
"Wait, so your Federation has Warp travel, but you don't enter The Warp? What Heresy is this?!"
@@ReiseLukas I believe the Imperium would find this very useful.
Gotta say as some whose played way too much Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy and with a partner massively into Star Trek so have a pretty decent grounding I pretty much agree with you analysis, in M42 the Federation wont be facing the Imperium, it'll be facing the local Sub-Sector then Sector navies it's boardering, given the size and fire power disarity if a few sector fleets were massed it'd be a massacre, but they wouldnt be the odd patrol ship or flotilla could be over come and by the time the Sector fleet commands run it up to the next level of the layer response at the Segmentum fortress it could be years if not decades before a proper force could be mustered, if it was even bothered with as not being overtly aggressive the federations going to the bottom of Segmentum commands to do list, honestly by the time the reports cross Robbie G's desk I think he'd be more intrested in an alliance, the federation more closely resemble the empire he wants and by that point a few decades down the line I think they'd be building military assets to cope with the new reality, I'm not sure exactly what a Federation take on a Lunar Class Cruiser tonnage vessel would look like exactly, but I think it would be absolute nightmare fuel for anyone coming across one
That's even if papa Smurf even hears the call. Could be another more aggressive chapter that hears the call. By the time papa Smurf gets the call the other chapter would have wiped out the star fleet.
@OGDamnnation In all honesty post the Great Rift, simple truth is your average Space Marine chapter just has better things to do than go rampaging off after a non-hostile Tau'ish sized empire on the edge of tne galaxy, that at most would be responsible for the loss of a few boarder patrol ships. The way the layered defence works is the harder the Imperiums hit the wider and louder the call the harder the counter response hits back, here the Imperiums not been hit, so the reports are going to just go up the standard beuracy. So during a time period when you've got active invasions into Imperial Core worlds, deamons on Terra and rampaging 'Nids and Orks, the Federation is at the bottom of everyone's to do list.
Besides 1 don't think a single Marine Chapter couldn't do the job, but 1,000 Marines isn't a lot, Chapter Fleets tend to be reasonable small and while the first few engagements would go very badly for Star Fleet, I'm sure they'd figure out to just use the 10 setting out the phasers pretty quickly and while an Imperial Fleet is well outside Starfleets capabilities, lone ships or small groups probably could be dealt with (though at high cost) so unless it is the Black Templars and their massive fleet complete with Gloriana class flagship even a single Chapter is a manageable threat (though beating a Marine Chapter will bump the Federation up the priority list)
Now if the senario was moved a bit in time to say 900.M41 very different senario, no major threats and a whole star cluster appearing out of nowhere would be a big deal, (Post Great Rift that sort of weirdness is Tuesday) and it would suddenly be worth a whole lot of peoples time. Marine Chapters from all over would be flocking to this as well as half the fleets of Segmentum Pacificus. Federations a lot of new real estate (and can you imagine the Mechanius the second they heard about the techno-sorcery)
@@maddlarkin yes, but if word of federation TOASTERS got out.....
@johnneill9740 LOL, then no matter the state of the galaxy the Mechanius will launch the largest tech Crusade in history and no force in the universe can help the Federarion
True as long as the federation doesn't do something stupid which is highly unlikely, it'd be decades (maybe even a couple of centuries) away from being noticed and threatened by the larger Imperium.
The problem is that by then the Federation would be busy fighting off Tyranids or Chaos who wouldn't miss the opportunity to take advantage of newcomers.
btw, during the Great Crusade they did add a human xenos empire that was very much based on the Federation as one of the many conquests, I think it was the Diasporex defeated by Fulgrim.
Yeah, they where super technologically advanced, and allied with a bunch of Xenos. Even so they just couldn't beat the overwhelming numbers and super soldiers. Not to mention those super soldiers are actively ten times smarter than you and have about a few hundred years of combat experience
@gothicshark The Interex. I was thinking the same. We already know how this would go lol
If the enterprise got dropped into the 40k verse, the physics wouldn't match their universe. Their systems would immediately malfunction and their antimatter containment fields would shut down, causing them to explode in a nuclear fireball larger than any man made explosion we've ever seen on earth. So I'd count that as a win for the imperium.
Alternatively, if you dropped a 40k ship into Star Trek's world their silly space magic and FTL tech would do nothing and they'd just float powerlessly until dead XD
@@AcesahnDepends on what ships, Gloriana Class and the Phalanx would surely survive.
@@griffionwyvrus9063 I'm saying using a psychic mutant to open a realm that doesn't exist wouldn't do anything, that most of the space magic and Gods wouldn't exist in Star Trek so they'd be left with diesel punk looking monuments that do nothing XD
one fan theory places the federation inside the 40k universe, at the dawn of the Dark Age of Technology.
@@Acesahn but at least they'd have some working guns.
The Federation wouldn't even be a speed bump for the Imperium, the scale of the Imperium without having to deal with the Chaos and Xenos would wipe the floor with startrek without it being a footnote to the Imperium.
Federation was made to explore, emperium was made for war!
Exactly this, as fun as comparing the 2 are, it's a little like comparing Magellans Expedition to the US Pacific Fleet; both were created for very different purposes.
It's all moot. In the end, Nurgle wins...
#Gifts
I think you are ignoring a number of things about the Federation in the first scenario. First, it's far more adaptable both mentally and technologically than the Imperium. If it's ships were unsuitable, they would design better ships. For example, look at the difference between the Galaxy class designed for peaceful exploration and the Sovereign which was designed for war. Self replicating minefields could be used to stop, destroy, or guide fleets into kill zones. The Federation's advantage has always been it's ability to adapt.
You are also wrong when comparing maneuverability and speed of the ships. Federation ships are capable at least 1000g of acceleration with inertial compensators as opposed to 'several' g's of acceleration which is what I can find for the Imperium. That's literally two orders of magnitude more acceleration and maneuverability. Further, the impulse/warp drive system allows the Federation to ignore relativistic effects which the Imperial ships can't.
To put that in context, it would be like an Abrams tank (45mph) trying to compete with an F-35 fighter plane (1200mph) in speed and maneuver... except that this F35 also has mastery over the low end of speed as well.
Regarding weaponry... oh how wrong you are. I'm not going to debate the power of the directed energy weapons (phasers, lances, etc.), but the range differential is also an order of magnitude. The best range I can find for Imperial weapons is around 15000km; the technical specs for the Enterprise D (Picards first ship) put phasers at 300000km. The Federation can hit them from beyond their range to attack at will, without them ever being able to even fire back. You couldn't be more wrong regarding even normal photon torpedoes, much less the more powerful variants such as quantum torpedoes. The reason the Federation doesn't use point defense is that it's useless. Photon torpedoes are FTL weapons with a 2.5 million km range, meaning that they hit the Imperial ships before their sensors can even pick them up, much less target them with their point defense.
Second, when push comes to shove they can simply put together cloaked fleets and obliterate every Imperium world within range with a single torpedo, as shown by Sisko when dealing with the Maquis. How many worlds can the Imperium afford to lose?
Meanwhile, the Federation on a war footing would be deploying industrial scale replicators with a production rate the Imperium simply can't ever match.
All of that said, the Imperium has it's advantages. It's FTL is faster (though I can't imagine that going through the warp blind would work out well for them), and it's ground combat abilities are at least as superior to the Federations ground forces as the Federations fleet is to the Imperiums. Further, the sheer number of worlds means that even their pathetic production rates add up in total to a level the Federation can't match.
The Imperium is big enough to destroy the Federation, no doubt. But it's losses would be catastrophic, and it's very likely that the Federation would make ark ships taking people and tech to safety, where they would rebuild and come back on a crusade of their own that would obliterate the Imperium within no more than a few hundred years.
The last thing is this: The Federation has a Pandora's box of things they choose not to use for the most part. Nanotech, phase cloaks, time travel, sentient AI... the Imperium pushes them too far that box gets opened and everybody is screwed.
Legions of Leman Russ's and *THE BANEBLADE* laugh at Federation ground troops.
Hell you wouldn't even need one of those Legions to kill every one of their ground troops. All you need is like a company of either.
@@camerongunn7906 The Klingons vs Astartes would be very entertaining.
Ground troops sent used, a federation ship would simply drop a photo torpedo to crack the planet and leave. A phaser would also just ignore power armor in general, if it doesn't matter what your armor is made of when the atoms that make it up are ripped apart.
@@voidtempering8700 Unarmed troops vs. bolter weapons. Fed boys don't stand a chance.
@Princess_Celestia_ For a phaser, the marine might as well be unarmored. That is forgetting the fact that the Federation typically doesn't even bother with ground engagements.
Imperium: i require multiple ships to make a planet uninhabitable.
Star Trek: Constitution class sits above the planet for five minutes and cracks planet with phasers alone.
Star Trek: Needs a whole squad of their best men and women to take down one normal guy who just happens to have some martial skill. They get captured, escape, captured again, escape, captured again, talk for 2 episodes, released and then captured again while suffering 50% casualties before being teleported back to their ship where they make a star log acting like it was a successful mission even though the one guy still got away because they need him to be a villain in the next season where he remarkably becomes a good guy for one episode before betraying them all and the capture cycle begins again.
Imperium: One Grey Knight survives hundreds of years in a nightmare dimension where reality is only subject to the whims of literal gods, slays the demi-gods who are considered to be nearly all-powerful within this realm, makes a general nuisance of himself to said all powerful gods for giggles and remains untouched by its corruption.
@@Americium-120Trekkies are so oblivious and ignorant, aren't they? lol.
Laughs in Black Templar
I will laugh with you cousin an emperor children legionary great crusade Era
Only problem is if bothering to board their ships if they actually have a pair of balls and actually get a shot off. Those phasers and phaser rifle on high setting disintegrate targets instantly. Basically just don't get hit and your good. lol. I do find the video going with the 8ft Astartes to be funny since not everyone wears Terminator armor. At least not in the 42nd Millennia. And there are 7ft tall Astartes. Average being 7.6ft tall. But in any case not being hit without a Iron Halo on is a good ideal. Not that the first Astartes that gets disintegrated is going to stop the one behind him from puting a 19mm rocket propelled grenade in a security guards mouth.
No Pity!
No Remorse!
NO FEAR!
@@John2r1 Don't those only work if they hit flash and biological material?
Whenever Space Marines board a craft, they're completely armored (unless they're space wolves but space wolves are dumb) So I don't really see the thing working if it can't get past the armor
A laughing Black Templar? That's horrifying.
1. Where did the map at 2:26 come from? Cuz Im very certain that its canon that the entirety of "explored" space, or space that has been claimed by major powers, is FAR less than is shown. As in, most of the political borders shown should be cut by 2/3 to 3/4 and shoved closer to the Alpha-Beta Quadrant border.
2. Assuming that its canon, Star Trek Online's slipspace drives would be a gamechanger for Starfleet vessels. In the speech made at its unveiling to the public, the then-Federation president said "From Earth to Bajor in a week" or something to that effect. Manageable reinforcement routes and supply lines.
3. Star Trek warp drive goes;
warp core generates energy, warp nacelles focus and channel energy, energy projected around ship, ship enters subspace, ship now in FTL. But if subspace can be compared to 40k Warp, then Fed ships are doing 40k's equivalent of warp jumps without either psyker assistance or Gellar Fields. Basically suicide by Warhammer standards, but if they can still do Warp jumps in 40k without psykers or Gellar fields while in 40k space, they basically have the Holy Grail of FTL travel for the Imperium.
4. Everyone forgets that while Starfleet can do combat, basically being the Federation Navy, Starfleet itself doesnt view itself as a military branch. Legally speaking, Starfleet is the Federation equivalent of every space agency on the planet joining together as one company, then being incorporated into NATO assets. Or more simply, NASA replacing US Space Force. Explorers first, THEN fighters IF NEEDED. If they have any formal military training, it's reserved for personnel who are being told to go on missions that require specific skillsets, THEN being retrained into those skills prior to deployment.
The map was from memory alpha post dominion war
@@atankersview 10:30 That Trek galaxy map is not from Memory Alpha. It says at the top it's from Unity One, which is a non-canon fan fiction series and not accurate at all. The Federation is stated in canon to only span around 8,000 light years, which would make it far smaller than what is shown on that fan created map (well over half that size.) The entirety of Federation space would comfortably fit inside the smallest Imperial Segmentum on the galaxy map.
Star trek warp drive is slower than 40k one tho
@XD-sc4ix That was my point, but I'm doing this from my phone, and I can lose what I'm trying to type as I go. Also, I said "game changer," not "game winner." I acknowledged that slipspace is better than Starfleet's standard warp drive as an FTL drive crossing star systems, but not for crossing the galaxy. You COULD make multiple trips from a few systems over in about a week using slipspace, but using 40k's Warp drive during that same timeframe is just better for longer distances, comparatively
In a strategic sense the Imperium has a speed advantage. An Imperial ship can enter the Warp and be anywhere within days. As others have noted, a ST ship would take years to cross the same distance
But in a tactical sense, the ST universe has the advantage. All major players in the ST universe have the ability to engage in combat at FTL (warp) speeds while still in realspace. WH40K ships would simply not be able to target, or even hit a target at Warp 2, while the ST ships can target at will.
Trying to hit a Klingon Bird for Prey with a macrocannon would be like trying to hit an F-16 with a trebuchet. Devastating if it actually hit, but it is a REALLY big 'IF'.
That said, an Imperial ship could enter the Warp, and be at a system that it would take an ST ship months to get to, and zero chance of the ST ship following.
That strategic advantage would be short lived, as the Imperium would also have to deal with the Federation's ability to use Gobbledygook psuedo-science to much the same effect as Orc magic.
"Captain, sensors indicate that their engines seem to use some sort of unknown parallel universe as a mode of travel. If we just emit a short inverse tachyon burst at their fleet, that would introduce a harmonic feedback loop that will disable their engines; gimme a sec while I reconfigure the front deflector array"
I would actually argue the federation has a much better chance in the scenarios than you would think and for reasons i haven't seen anyone mention yet.
first by splicing federation space into the warhammer galaxy there is one major side effect, light hasnt had enough time to propagate so without ftl scanners, which the imperium doesnt have, they have to rely on the sensing abilities of psykers which can only sense a few lightyears at most on average. meaning the imperium would have to devote a huge number of ships with psykers to fish in "dead" space hoping to find a system. this will delay any progress they can make a LOT which gives the federation what it needs most... time. UFP space is apparently 8000 ly across so seeing anything useful from non ftl methods will take a long...long time. brain hurt maths: volume of sphere so not accurate but gives an idea: UFP space is volume of 2,144,660,000,000 LY if a psyker can sense 2 LY thats 33.5 LY volume and if a ship can warp *guessing here* 100 LY per day in unexplored space (wiki says 100-1000 and varies to warp fuckery so i took the low end since its unmapped space) thats 3350 volume of space that can be mapped per day so thats 640,197,015 days for a single psyker to map all of UFP space... or 1,753,964 years for a single psyker to map... google says the imperium has 2 million ships, 1.8mil are civilian so if we say they think the UFP is a problem and dedicate say.. 5% of their civilian ships to the task (probably crippling some economies lol) thats 90k ships which brings that search time down to... 19.5 years. and this isnt accurate for three reasons... 1 UFP space isnt a sphere its a weird oval thing, and 2: the imperium will have no idea what the actual area is so they will likely be searching a MUCH larger area than needed and the UFP only has 150 planets in that whole area so finding anything will really hard. so basically id say if the they are looking hard enough to damage their own economy maybe 30 years to guarantee to map everything, but likely they will toss a few hundred ships at it (assuming they dont burn a bunch of time investigating systems they already know about but thought were empty looking for the UFP) as they have other bigger problems. 3: i took the first google result on how many ships the imperium has lol
second the imperium also does not have ftl communications, once again having to rely on psykers with specific potential (astropaths) to facilitate communication across the galaxy faster than light. astropaths are rare enough that most planets dont have one, and since in the setting provided the federation was dropped in the 'least active' area the likelyhood of them encountering a fleet or planet with one available is even less likely, once again providing the federation with more of what they need most... time.
With those two factors and the fact that the federation would 'turtle' at the start to figure things out, i think the federation would have several years of time (maybe even decades with luck and caution) to research the imperium and innovate upgrades/counters before the first major engagements in their own space occurs, and with replicator technology that is a lot of time.
side note1: voy Season 4, Episode 14 showed the federation has the capability to fly combat ships with no crew members in year 2374 which is inside the setting provided... meaning if the federation were actually desperate enough they could build entirely automated fleets run by holograms. i imagine ships without crew quarters, life support, food storage ect would be far easier to make and i believe would be invisible to psykers... a logistical nightmare for an empire whos sole ability to see things ftl is psykers.
side note2: quantum slipstream drives were developed in 2381 which is 6 years after the end of the dominion war, so theoretically if they survive 10 years or so they could do a mass exodus out of the galaxy doing the classic "fck this sht i'm out" maneuver.
ALL that said... id probably bump scenario 1 to maybe survival, and scenario 2 to easy survival... but the federation going on a heavy offensive?? fckin nope, not unless they can go covert and prepare for like 50 years unmolested lol which... its warhammer not happening. overall i think this video does a good job and is spot on without those two points i mentioned being considered. UFP gets steamrolled in a normal fight against the imperium, they only get a shot if they can hide and develop (and or manipulate politics) like the UNSC vs Covenant war in halo.
I am sorry to abuse the patience of the channel. But I just realized that I made a mistake. I have been considering the learning curve of Federation as crucial advantage. When it is ratter the reason why Federation could not win any war in 40K Universe. However, Federation would not lose any war to the Empire here either. It would never met any Imperial vessel.
The Empire would never have time to find any Federation planet, or ship. Because intelectual curiosity is the core trait of Federation. It is the reason why they have that amazing learning curve. And it is objectively, disproportionately, dangerous in 40K Universe. As it is not in the Universe where Federation evolved.
Every ship and planet of Federation would fall to Chaos, starting with the labs. By the time their scientists realized the "rules of the game" hard changed, would be already too late for the core of Federation. Internal diversity is an advantage (not a political comment, it objectively is, so much so that all living species have a lot genetic variation between individuals. It is not to preserve the feelings of anyone, or the survival of the weak. It is because that is how some individuals are likely to survive no matter what happens, when conditions change) some Federation worlds are likely to survive. The close-minded theocratic ones. But the core and the head of Federation is doomed.
The Empire will find something. The Fallen, reshaped by Chaos. Not the United Federation of Planets.
That is not really in the spirit of the comparison. That would not really be the humans in wh40k vs the federation. It would just be dropping people into an environment that was hostile without any knowledge on how to survive.
I understand your point,@@Immudzen. But that is what the situation designed by the channel would likely result, all things considered. It would be more like drop an great white shark in the middle of Saara Desert and see how well it fights in that environment than like a fight. Because the Federation depends at the very core of that "investigative mind" and "unity in infinite diversity" that serves as excuse for 9 to each 10 plot-armour solutions in favour of Star Fleet that we see in New Generation.
And in 40K Universe, that way of thinking is as healthy as breath by gills would be in the middle of a huge dry desert. If I understand the basic logic of 40K "magic system".
Unless we give the Federation automatic immunity to the influences of corruption. That is a possibility, I suppose. But would seem unfair with the Empire.
Another possibility would be to give both sides a way to move between Universes. Some astronomic event that pierces a bunch of holes between those two Universes. Chaos cannot pass through but people can, and both "magic systems" work in both Universes? Then Federation would need to learn how to close their minds a bit when they are in 40K side. And the Empire could explore the advantages of Federation laws of reality, once they understand them.
Still, in the long term cultural contamination would still destroy both sides as we know them. Even if war itself doesn't.
@@thiagom8478 complete nonsense on chaos starting from the Labs.
Labs still exist in 40k and those not actively involved with warp fuckery are mostly fine (except when the project is a xeno and escapes)
Heck even the easiest point of Entry the Klingons would be hard to corrupt for khorne because of their strong hatred for gods (they killed theirs for being bothersome)
There were and probably still some civilisations of humanity and xenos that have no idea what chaos was (or were histile) and they did fine (untill big E came along)
Sure,@@Blutwind, laboratories exist. The problem is not the physical space where research is conduced. What seems to be the problem from where I am sitting is the spirit of free investigation, the labs are just the place where that spirit manifests more intensely. That Lovecraftian premisse according to which some ideas are, in itself, dangerous to sanity. And evil. That idea is objectively false in the Universe of Star Trek. Therefore, the people who evolved in that Universe developed no defences against Necronomicron-ish research. They will open every box, by default. Make contact with anyone they cross (often abusing the patience and invading the home of people who don't want to talk with them) and try to stablish diplomatic relationship.
In the context of 40K is objectively true that just think some thoughts is dangerous and may, in a bad day, lead to madness. Evil. Poor hygienic habits and questionable diet.
Humanity in the Federation has a few taboos, such as genetic improvement and slavery. But they have no "serpent egg" ideas. Nothing that they will not dare to contemplate with the eye of the mind for fear of being corrupted by it. That fearless actitud is what allows then to run their technological improvement as fast as they do.
In 40K universe that may not be the most wise way.
@@Blutwind no, no, he has a point. The federation would research chaos artifacts without knowing what they are, and how corruptive they can be. It's a bit like the early years of radioactive research irl, where it was sold as something healthy until people started dying, sometimes horribly (radium infused water). The federation has no way to know something is amiss, until the corruption has already spread enough to be almost unstoppable. And the ones doing the research would almost certainly be the labs.
Are you familiar with halo forunners and wih necrons
Piccard becomes a servitor
You need to get to some Ai and make that happen.
@camerongunn7906 it is heresy to suggest the use of the Abominable Intelligence
You mean, becomes a servitor, AGAIN
They ALL become servitors.... well, not the disgusting xenos, of course.
But yes, all of the humans do.
@@camerongunn7906 A.I.?!?! Heresy!!
The federation would probably think they are doing pretty good until the Imperium finally noticed them.
Knowing the Federation and the Shatnerian Precedent, the Federation in M42 would undoubtedly make a bee-line for Tau space and make snu-sn... alliances.
You missed scenario 3.
The Federation drops into the universe in near proximity to the T'au Empire.. and given their disposition towards talking before fighting they're more likely to get on with the T'au and given T'au in lore history of holding their guns in the face of the Imperium.. and their forward thinking scientific development I can see Federation Engineers and Earth Caste engineers going full collaboration.. given this safe haven to do their homework on the state of their newfound surroundings.. and their penchant for sussing out little details.. the Federation would genuinely stand a chance to survive and if it came to war they would excel alongside the T'au with a "We are kindred spirits.. we both seek peace amidst diverse species and we both have built great alliances of wholesomely oriented societies across many worlds. This is good. We approve. Let's work together .. for the Greater Good."
So, the Federation now ignores a authoritarian Caste system ruled by a Upperclass that indoctrinates everyone with mystic powers? And they also don't mind cannibalism? 😂
That's not really how the Tau work though. They're more about 'asking' others to join the Tau Empire, which entails being subservient to the Tau and holding the Etherials as the absolute rulers. And if you say you don't want to join the Tau and refuse their gifts, trade, and sweet talking, then you get to discuss the terms of your joining the Tau Empire with the Fire caste. The Federation would not approve of this behavior and the Tau would not accept them as an equal ally. They'd likely end up in a culture war trying to convince boarder worlds to switch allegiance assuming the Tau didn't think they could just conquer them.
@@commandoepsilon4664 The T'au use gunship diplomacy. Every single client species was taken in through threats or propagandists, and through the Ethereal's absolute control over the T'au empire they were able to rewrite history. They use Mind Control on regular T'au citizens, and any who are non-Tau are second class citizens at best in the main T'au empire
You can always tell the people who don't really know 40K but know just enough to mention a few factions. The T'au are far from the most cooperative races in 40K and even if the Federation did bow to the T'au and join them, the T'au would just castrate them anyway to prevent the Gue'vesa from overbreeding. 🤣
I have been hiding in a world of Warcraft addiction, come join us in the slowly sinking ship that it is.
@@JohnDoe-yu4je I am so glad to have left that ship about 14 years ago. Even those classic servers couldn't tempt me.
I think the Federation could give the Imperium a better fight than you think. Still wouldn’t be able to beat them or anything but they would be able to put up a decent fight. There are a few things that the federation could do if they acted quick enough to at least fight back somewhere effectively. They would have to throw out pretty much the entire rule book they have on war but in the face of the Imperium who wanted to wipe out all aliens. If it’s just after dominion war and voyager got before the teleport I will say yes as it gives them more of a chance as they would still be militarised war footing for a few years after. Below are the things I think the federation could do to put a good fight.
1) Reverse engineer from Voyager the armour plating tech and put it on every ship you can as fast as you can. While it might not be able to stand up to the Imperiums Biggest ship weapons (maybe it could tank a shot) it would still protect the fragile hulls from many of the small to medium ship based weapons meaning they could hang in a fire fight for at least some small amount of time.
2) Reverse engineer the Transphasic Torpedos from voyager as they will probably be the best weapon that can be mass produced that could hurt an imperium ship fast and hard enough to matter. Those things one shot a Borg cube and those things are tough even without shields though I will admit Imperium ships probably could take multiple hits. The great thing about them is they seem to completely bypass shields.
3) Use lots of Quantum torpedoes while they aren’t as good as torpedoes above they are at least around and already in service just need to ramp up production and equip ships with more. Probably though this would only be minor upgrade but take what you can.
4) Use there large industrial capacity to build orbital defence networks and minefields which we have seen deployed in the war with the dominion. While I don’t think it repel an imperium attack it could definitely buy them time.
5) Give up on capital ships. Federation ships aren’t good enough to go toe to toe with imperium ships and they can’t make ships big enough and tough enough to compete. Instead they need to transition to smaller vessels like the Defiant and Voyager as while less powerful than a galaxy class they can still pack a punch that’s not much worse than it. They will need many more ships to cover their territory and smaller ships will help as they can be turned out faster and be crewed by smaller numbers. Smaller crew numbers also help as the attrition is going to be horrendous no matter what so it’s better to loose ships with a 100 crew rather than 1000. The smaller ships are also more manoeuvrable and can hopefully weave around the larger weapons shot at them. Maybe even using marquee raider or runabouts if they up gun them enough.
6) Large fleet battles are completely off the table as those tactics won’t work as they will just be blown out of the sky in a prolonged battle. Best thing to do would be hit and run tactics. Warp in and unload everything you have into the Imperium ships do what damage they can then warp out before they take any serious damage in return. Keep doing this and maybe they can wear down any invading fleet.
7) Unleash the Genesis Device and begin producing them. While banned I think in this desperate situation they would be used and section 31 at least is not going to care about using them. They pack a hell of a punch and can them destroying an Imperium ship. Probably hard to make but at least give them a super weapon to crack the truly mammoth ships.
8) Unban subspace weapons. While highly unpredictable and a danger even to the ship firing them they are one of the few things that pack enough punch to hurt or kill an imperium ship. I mean one of them pretty much made a tear in space that would have destroyed the Enterprise E though from the sounds of things that wasn’t the intention and was unpredictable that would be a beneficial weapon (the tear in space could probably destroy an Imperium ship).
Below might work though unlikely and could backfire in some cases.
9) Phased cloaks. While psykers could detect cloaked ships a phased cloak lets federation ships pass through solid objects so weapons might be useless against them for most part. Not sure about some 40k energy weapons but maybe they might have an effect also the psykers could probably still hurt them with psykers powers or even bring them into real space. Still might be able to phase some torpedoes in and blow the 40k ship from the inside. However technology was experimental and unstable so might not work or be a viable weapon.
10) Holographic soldiers. While the federation could never match the imperium on the ground they could deploy mass numbers of holographic troops that have been shown to be able to hurt people with the safeties off. Could even deploy portable holographic projector like the one the Hirogen holograms used on that planet they wanted to make a home world on. Also maybe could replicate a worse version of the Doctors mobile emitter though that has very advanced future tech so maybe not. Also this could backfire horribly as we have seen holograms becoming independent and we don’t want a whole hologram revolution. Maybe with continued wipes they could be controlled but then you have just some very basic garbage soldiers but it does give federation needed number on the ground.
@@hexzinggaming5040 I like your in depth views and careful analysis and I highly respect that. Just wanted to say that have a great day.
@@silentknightstudios1427 Thanks. Glad someone liked it. I wanted to be in depth to show how I think the federation could best defend itself and adapt to the 40k universe.
Even after the Dominion war the Federation would get frog-stomped by the IoM. It's just a case of scale with th IoM spanning the galaxy with millions of worlds.
Big E and his armis could wreck both the Federation and the Dominion and consider both engagements as separate crusades.
@@xxnoxx-xp5bl Oh don’t get me wrong if it’s before the Horus Heresy then even this wouldn’t help them much and they would be stomped. Even in 40k best they can hope for is to be problematic enough not to be conquered and to be left alone like the Tau. However with humans in the federation and being so large and practicing tech heresy it’s unlikely to be left to its own devices for long. Unlike the Tau there are bit to big to ignore. Plus federation would eventually try to poke its nose in everyone else’s business.
No all my ideas and theories were more how the federation could hold out longer in a full fight against the Imperium and what they would do or best thing to do. It was mainly just to point out that they could hold for longer than just a single year but eventually yes they would be worn down and conquered.
Best case scenarios for the federation following a war are as follows in my opinion:
1) Federation gets pushed back and beaten majority of there worlds taken and many left in ruin. Imperium decides it’s not worth the resources to try and take the few shattered planets the federation has left.
2) A few Federation worlds after the defeat are overlooked or never found and they go into hiding like many enemies of the Imperium have in the past though they won’t be a threat for millennia if ever.
3) Federation collapses and many worlds splinter and break off. Humans worlds are completely conquered and any valuable planet they can find would be taken. Planets with dangerous Xenos would be like the Betazoid who a physic and the Vulcans who are strong and physic to a lesser extent. A few Xenos worlds maybe allowed to survive in isolation.
4) Seeing the war is lost they try and find and colonise some corner of the galaxy that the Imperium can’t reach or hasn’t mapped yet as there is plenty of uncharted space but then again it’s likely blank for a reason. Probably would die to some unknown horror or be taken by chaos or destroyed by a hostile species.
5) Maybe the Federation decide the war is lost and try to abandon their worlds and build starships to evacuate. Essentially forming roaming fleets that travel the galaxy never settling down and only stopping to mine resources and trade for supplies that can’t be replicated. Eventually most of these fleets would be lost to some kind of horror beyond imagination or hostile Xenos race but a few might survive. Probably using there safe faster than light travel method to escape any battle.
6) Seeing the war is lost they may try and use the transporter or some other technology to try and travel to and find a parallel reality that might be safer and allow them to rebuild though Hugh chance they end up in some horrific dimension filled with cosmic horrors.
@@xxnoxx-xp5bl Oh don’t get me wrong if it’s before the Horus Heresy then even this wouldn’t help them much and they would be stomped. Even in 40k best they can hope for is to be problematic enough not to be conquered and to be left alone like the Tau. However with humans in the federation and being so large and practicing tech heresy it’s unlikely to be left to its own devices for long. Unlike the Tau there are bit to big to ignore. Plus federation would eventually try to poke its nose in everyone else’s business.
No all my ideas and theories were more how the federation could hold out longer in a full fight against the Imperium and what they would do or best thing to do. It was mainly just to point out that they could hold for longer than just a single year but eventually yes they would be worn down and conquered.
Best case scenarios for the federation are as follows in my opinion:
1) Federation gets pushed back and beaten majority of there worlds taken and many left in ruin. Imperium decides it’s not worth the resources to try and take the few shattered planets the federation has left.
2) A few Federation worlds after the defeat are overlooked or never found and they go into hiding like many enemies of the Imperium have in the past though they won’t be a threat for millennia if ever.
3) Federation collapses and many worlds splinter and break off. Humans worlds are completely conquered and any valuable planet they can find would be taken. Planets with dangerous Xenos would be purged like the Betazoid who a physic and the Vulcans who are strong and physic to a lesser extent. A few Xenos worlds maybe allowed to survive in isolation.
4) Seeing the war is lost they try and find and colonise some corner of the galaxy that the Imperium can’t reach or is unmapped but most as there are places but it would be a long shot and most likely those areas of blank map are super unsafe.
5) Maybe use the transporters or some other to try and find another reality that is safer though highly unlikely to succeed they may find something. Most likely they only find dimensions filled with cosmic horrors.
6) Federation sees war is lost and creates ships to evacuate as many as they can. Eventually forming several fleets that travel the galaxy only stopping to mine for resources and trade. Using there faster than light warp drives to escape conflict by evading their enemies and never engaging in prolonged fights. Most of these fleets would die after running into some hostile part of space or Xenos or run across some unspeakable horror out there but some might be able to adapt and continue on.
All of the federations weapons are capable of firing while in warp, in other words at FTL their missiles/ torpedos are FTL capable, another point impulse is almost .92C, making it stupid fast in acceleration and deceleration. The agility of their ships would exceed anything the imperium has. In the TV shows the ranges are closer for many artists reasons but even in the series they fire weapons at warp and their weapons alone are ftl capable of
As a huge ST fan but only a very casual WH enjoyer my main points of discussion would be:
- The Imperium's resistance to technology development would severely limit their abilty to adapt to new technology. Would they have any resistance to a Phaser? Any answer to teleportation? Are the federations shields completely resistant to projectiles?
- The fundamentalism of the imperium could work as a weakness against a powerful, diverse group united towards a cause that could be considered 'good'. How many factions and groups would sympathise with the prime directive if chaos is removed from the equation?
- The abilty for the federation to adapt, evolve and most importantly change, is their greatest power. Through diplomacy they now have the combined power, technology and history of every group they have come across. An enemy that can change and adapt quickly has historically shown to be incredibly difficult to put down.
Also don’t forget that during that age there was the guys between space marines and imperial guard the Solar Auxilia who are void combat specialists
Federation struggle to assemble a fleet of less than 50 ships. The Imperial Navy has literally millions.
A Federation ship is also more powerful than any Imperium ship short of battleships. A single photo torpedo can crack a planet and they throw out dozens against individual ships.
Heck, the shields of an early model Enterprise completely resisted multiple shots from the planet killer.
@@voidtempering8700 But a photon torpedo has incredibly little mass and would thus just be shunted into the warp effortlessly by the void shields. ... Because they are not energy shields aiming to stop stuff like in ST - they work by removing incoming matter and energy from existence by throwing them into a different dimension...
@skalgrimfellaxe5796 That's not exactly true. Laser weapons are used extensively in 40k, and they can strip shields. The amount of energy delivered is still a key part of warp shields.
@@voidtempering8700 No lasers are not used extensively in 40k void battles other than as point defense or on fighter crafts. Lances however are. These are energized streams of particles funneled in a beam, sometimes guided by lasers that together counteract dispersion issues found in standard lasers.
This allows the weapon to pack a much greater punch as they are not only energy based but also have mass while still reaching both light and near light speeds depending on configuration.
@skalgrimfellaxe5796 Lasers are used extensively in void battles, and have been described as being used in a variety of books. Heck, in the Gothic Armada rulebook, they are outright stated to be one of the means of direct fire alongside fusion beams and plasma launchers.
Secondly, that still doesn't negate my point. A stream of particles still doesn't have much mass.
- If someone say "The Earth fleet from Yamato Space Battleship could rival the Imperium!", I'd say nah, they will destroy the Imperium!!
- BUT if someone say "Any animated large names such as Star Trek or Star Wars could rival the Imperium!"???? I'd sat nah, their world would be Exterminatus!!
@@baohoang4966 even orks can be a huge threat, Ghazghkulk led the largest waaagh on armageddon
Interesting question... does Picard after season 1 of ST:Picard count as Tecno-Heresy or as the final goal of the Tech-Priests? (After all he was organic, then bio-transferred to his new android body). There's also another point to consider, at least for a campaign in particular... the Federation has Earth as well, and some primitive Earth copies, how would the WH40K fleet react at seeing what is basically old Holy Terra?
All your arguments have a lot of merit and what I would agree would happen. However, I would want to point out some things in case they were missed.
A few questions, what ST map was that one? That Federation on the map looks MASSIVE - during the 24th Century they were not THAT big, probably not even a tenth of the size shown, specially compared with the Borg Collective. Actually all the other powers except the Borg were smaller too, this should be even more in favour of 40k performing a curve-stomping attack with numbers, but also on making them harder to find.
Second, Jem'Hadar vessels combined their similar size with a similar technique to their Polaron Weaponry, so they just bypassed shields most of the time. There was a case on a TNG episode where a normal shield collision happened, a shuttle just bounced off the shield. Granted, this only happened with smaller ships colliding with the shield so it's pretty much a moot point against the humongous 40K ships.
Third, lasers were even easily blocked by a Federation ship with normal shields down and only the navigational deflector up, dealing negligible damage. Granted, 40k ships' lasers are more often than not bigger and more powerful, and ships posses far more than lasers (f.ex. those plasma-based weaponry you stated) so in the end the final result would not matter unless the Federation ship used a spot where most weapons were lasers (unlikely) so they could either fire without suffering as much punishment as in other areas, or even could actually use that "transporter" trick without being suicide, just risky. Another thing I'm considering might work is using the transporters to beam away boarders (as, transporting a boarding team of Adeptus Astartes to space), even if that tactic is more often than not unused by the Federation. Also depending on Federation innovation the lowering-shields-to-transport may not be an issue, since if I remember correctly, the USS Voyager could just lower a small section of the shield to allow transporters to work without dropping the entire shield grid entirely.
Fourth, even if a bit unlikely, I could totally see a powerful psyker or Tech-Priest trumping a lot of the ST advantages by distorting reality or invalidating a Fed ship programming, specially with how vulnerable most Federation ships' software seems to be, albeit on the case of the Adeptus Mechanicus or Techmarines I am unsure if their binaric hack attempts would succeed at first since Fed tech is so different from their technology it could have been considered xeno-tech-heresy, plus all Fed ships seem to be complex enough to harbor multiple full AIs in them.
There's another scenario I'm considering where the Imperium could destroy the Federation easily, where a 30k-40k fleet was displaced to the ST Universe, and supposing that the Warp also exists there, but extremely calm due to the lack of Ruinous Powers there, so if the Warhammer fleet gained enough intel about the position of the Federation's members, it could just Warp to each planet at very close range and fire Exterminatus ordinance, and unless the planet had a shield like Post-Dominion-War Earth, they would be doomed.
Well, Magnus did murder a bunch of people to go warn his father, so there is that.
It's interesting. If we were to talk someone using trekkie tech to it's theoretical fullness, imperium wouldn't stand a chance. For example, infinite nukes via replicator teleported into or in front of imperium ships (depending on whether or not you think you can teleport through void shields.) Teleports have planetary scale range, unlike their other weapon systems.
Another small side note, it's my understanding that most trekkie ships are far more manueverable than even the corvette and frigate based imperial ships. They fly like fighters compared to the imperium. I'm not sure the imps could land the macro cannons. The lances are an issue at range, though most or on the prow, or upper hull, and these far faster, more manueverable craft could learn to avoid it by being behind or under their target, relative to it.
Hah! Under a year for it all to fall? My man. It might take years for the imp ships just to show up! If they show up 'on time'. And not before, or after.
I'm not saying the federation wouldn't fall, just, not that fast. Not without issues for the imperium and having guerilla warfare on a silly scale too. Nukes teleported onto planets after the first atrocities hit the federation and lone captains star making... decisions.
Man I sure do hate that darn Malicious Citrus choppin' up my galaxy.
Speaking of W40k, any thought on the W40k Secret Level episode?
I went from 6 to midnight
I thought it was pretty badass.
Star trek before or after dominion war?
Can you imagine the terror the federation would feel when they experience come into contact with chaos for the first time?
How powerful would the Q race compare to the Chaos gods individually? Is a single Q more powerful then the most powerful Warp spawn empowered by hundreds of quadrillions of Warp signature souls?
I would say Q is. Unlike chaos Q can do what ever it wants when ever it wants with the only limits as far as we know being self imposed. They require neither ritual or belief to fuel what they do.
@@ambushbob5383
Neat. Do you think a Q would far outclass them in raw power that they can simply snap their hands and a Chaos god would be destroyed instantly if they willed it?
@@JohnLevi-t1w i dont know if he could kill them outright but I'm 100% positive he could starve them to death. With the snap of his fingers he could rob sentient life of free will, remove everyone's emotions, make everyone immortal, bring back the dead, bestow Q powers, maybe just remove everyone from the board all togeather.
@@JohnLevi-t1w depends on the chaos god the 4 of them are incredibly different in how they work and their strength
I think the Q can beat the Chaos gods, probably even on an individual level simply because of their ability to create pocket dimensions. They could probably just cut off the Chaos gods from their warp power.
The imperium has dreadnoughts.......the closet thing star trek has is Pike
Ahahahahahahaha that was unnecessarily funny 🤣
Do you think command and conquer factions with the same as of space stands a chance against WH40k?
About a heretics chance on terra lol
@@atankersview I am sure your opinions aren't biased at all lmao 🤣
@Pridefallen975 its a hard admission. Ive been playing c&c since it first released in 96
@@atankersview I mean I meant if both of them actually had everything equalized equal amount of planets and all that not just the c&c as they are now even I a diehard c&c fan know that they would be destroyed since it's basically just a single planet.
Brother hood of Nod is one of my top 3 fantasy factions, all the command and conquer forces ( GDI, Nod , scriin) do not stand a chance on hell although I can see KAYNE the prophet somehow convincing everyone including chaos gods he is the right hand of the emperor or something and scheme on how to take his place.
that said .. no even if you put the fictional allies , japan empire , soviets , mutants , whatever along with the "base" GDI , Nod and scriin , cnc still does not have any chances , even the dark eldar a relatively week faction could take the entire cnc with such ease that would hardly be considered training.
you should do a video on WH 40K vs Space battleship yamato each UNCF ship is basically a mini death-star with a cannon or 2 that can one-shot entire fleets or contents the size of Australia along with fighter squadrons with great anti capital ship capability's and in a package of an average length of 400 Meters
Would cyclonic torpedoes be an equivalent to tri-cobalt torpedoes ?
I'm old school sci-fi fan, Star Trek and Star Wars also 40k, neither The Federation nor the Empire or Republic stands a chance against one 40k warship at 1.5 kilometers long, maybe Palpatine's Eclipse, or Darth Vader Super Star Destroyer.
Numbers would be that chance if it was their entire fleet against a 40k warship. Because it doesn't matter how large your ship is. That much fire power will eventually make it through.
@@carlosamontalvo3217 star wars ships have a chance because they're faster, and also have hyperspace instant communication. So they'll be able to outrun the Imperial Navy, and coordinate better. Of course we're talking capital ships only and even only those on the bigger end.
@@John2r1 Borg cube anyone?
@@sillak5253 The video limited it to just the Federation. But yes that is part of the numbers factor . The Federation swarmed a Borg cube and managed to destroy it. It would be the same game if a single 40k ship was put against the entire Federation. Sure the Federation would lose ships but eventually their going to hit something critical.
If I remember correctly, the executor SSD was 19km long, and a Gloriana class is 28km long. So the size disparity isn't too crazy among the largest ships. The real disparity comes in soldiers... Boarding an imperial star destroyer with a few squads of astartes... I feel sorry for the storm troopers. Compared to Star Trek, a borg cube is 3km on a side... So it would take 9 cubes to almost match the mass of the Gloriana. And a borg cube dwarfs the galaxy class..
Now i know there aren't many Gloriana class ships left after the heresy, and few were ever built, but the same can be said of Sassy. Just comparing the largest and most iconic ships. When it comes down to it though, the imperium simply has more. More ships, more soldiers, more planets, more super weapons, more willingness to use them all.
Once you realize that matter replicators run on energy-matter conversion, and the amount of energy such a system would need to run, and then realize that these systems are universally available and taken for granted as a crew comfort accommodation aboard StarFleet ships… there was never a contest
My issue is actually much more basic.. the imperium, for all of its amazing numbers, and gigantic ships... Its still using slow to turn, cumbersome, painfully slow at sublight, basic line ships with simple firing arcs. Ive seen the galaxy class enterprise do a literal deathstar run and thats their least maneuverable ship. Star trek ships also have close to full 360 degree spherical firing arcs.. At sublight speeds the imperium's ships may aswell be not moving at all frankly. I have a difficult time imagining any of the imperiums firepower actually coming to bear considering they're basically piloting a fleet of flying buildings. Its almost the same problem as a star destroyer but much worse. How much time would it take before the federation realizes it can just jump out of warp underneath and behind the imperiums fleet, and fire on them with total impunity?
That is the general consensus. The federation can win battles but not the war.
You going to fight like an eldar?
Fine.
Created a box of ovetlapping death and attack your infastructuer.
I remind you the eldar are superior to the imperium in every way but one.
Numbers.
The imperium can afford to wage a slow war of attration for millenia.
And unlike the eldar the federation cannot move there homes out of the way.
Remember the reason the eldar still exist is trying to accauly find a craftworld is like trying to find a hay in a needle stack.
Attacking commorath would require several crusade fleets and even then you at best pissed of the dark eldar who are even worse then chaos.
It is general accepted that killing off the eldar is something the imperium could do
But it would cripple them to the point a stiff wind would kill them.
The federation isnt nearly as technologicly advance as the eldar or necrons.
But they learn fast.
There best hope is to tech rush.
Given enough time the federation would be able to defeat the imperium.
But that is the thing about 40k.
In a 1vs1 the imperium beats them all.
But in this galatic free for all everyone is screwing everyone.
Fun fact.
At the hight of their power the eldar would have slaughter the tyranid fleet.
All of it.
The ctan see the tyranids as an all you can eat buffey.
The tyranids outnumber the galaxy many times over and their are things in 40k that could beat them.
40k is a horror story.
The federation wont survive with their ideals intact.
And if they lose their ideals.
Are they still the federation?
Eldar ships are as maneuverable as Star trek ships or even more, and Imperial ships don't have problem to fight them. Well they have but they can fight them. The thing is, Imperials warships do have turret mounted weapons that can cover all the flanks. It's the massive macro battery found on the broadside that have limited angles.
The real issue is star trek shields and weapons. They are so powerful the 40K weapons wont hurt them and their weapons will go through warhammer shields and ships like paper. If all the warhammer and star fleet ships fought one huge battle it would be a long and bloody slaughter of warhammer.
@@neishark1735 are you sure? Eldar ships from my general understanding are operating on some kind of solar sail.. they are fast, but star trek ships can jump in and out of warp speed almost at will. What are some feats for eldar ships?
In Startrek the Battles take place in relatively close proximity. In 40K the ranges of the weapons are far far greater, and they dont technically target the ships, they destroy the space the ship is in. See Battlefleet Gothic.
The Imperium would be firing while the Federation only had them on long range scanners.
My head canon is that magnus phased in while Big E was playing with one of his “special toys”
2 quick things. 1-if things get close, the imperium has boarding torpedoes. 2- if the federation was dumb enough to try to transport a small strike team into an imperium ship, they’d be facing hundreds if not thousands of astra militarum troops.
I'm not a Star Trek fan but I'm not sure it would go down so easy for the Imperium. The first mistake of space ship battles is that people think that they are naval battle with ships facing each other and zipping around in dog fight. The realty is that spaceship battles is more like in The Expanse, meaning it's more like far away hide and seek and the ship with the best cloaking and and better sensors will absolutely win, just like how mars was able to smoke bigger Earth ship. Second the federation is absolutely able to produce super soldier and they do have them, the people in the Star Trek ship are not main federation soldiers and the problem with space marine charging them, is the phasers have a disintegrator mode which they usually don't use but will most likely have no trouble using it against space marine, and it's standard issued. The teleportation device if used with malice will absolutely hurt imperial soldier and Space Marine. Finally if the conflict drags, the federation unlike the imperium can definitely start diplomacy with Eldar, Tau and even Start studying and understanding Necron technology which the imperium would not be able to do. I don't know I think the fight would be much harder for the Imperium even if they win.
One other thing I think your missing is that the imperium ships are designed to take hits. A lot of them. A strike cruiser alone would decimate an odyssey class.If you bring in the big ones, gloriannas and such, not a chance. And remember that Star Trek ships in cannon lose repeatedly to Borg cubes. And a Borg cube is no where near as powerful as a battle barge. Even if you bring in discovery’s timeline again. Federation ships are meant to be hit and run.
You are right the IoM would prob lose in the first few battles, then they would stop playing and instead of "scouting" Fleets would send in Formations from the prestigious Battlefleets like Battlefleet Gothic for example.
And on the Ground: I don't think the Feds have an answer to the suicidal charges of the Death Corps of Krieg, the discipline of the Cadian Shocktroops or the various Methods of War from different Astartes Chapters. And the IoM doesn't need one of its few Glorianas left just one or two Crusades frm the Black Templars a handful Custodes and the usual metric ton of Guardsmenif the Fed isn't outright killing every Guardsmen on sight fast enough one is going to call for Artillery/Air support/Orbital strike and the the Feds are cooked. Also id Imperial Heroes like Dante, Sicarius or their like join the combat...
Also don't forget the Imperial Inquisition and their covert ops thinking
Imperium ships would get rick rolled. Federation ships are as nimble as fighters and can travel up to 25% the speed of light. Federation ships usually have no blind spots either.
Imperium ships like Star wars ships have these huge massive engines in the back creating the perfect blind spot.
@@michaelgonzales1845 yes but the IoM doesn’t care if it loses 10 Shops for every FED Ship they destroy, they routinely sacrifice irreplacebel Battleships to achive victory. Also their Lanceweapons only Need to disable the shields and they can teleport Boarding parties with their own shields active. If it‘s a ship of the imperial Navy the fed Security has a Chance to win But if it’s an Astartes Battlebarge or Strike Cruiser there is no Chance in Hell that that ship isn‘t going to a Forge World for study. Also eben the imperial Navy Wölfe win in the end just because of mass and atrition
Wow 4 reply lol! Let me reiterate that spaceships battles are not 2 ships lining each other and launching a laser cannonade like in naval battle. Spaceship battles are hide and seek battle with vessels shooting at each other relying on sensor and radar like submarines. It this kind of battle the federation are largely superior because they have better cloaking devices and sensor. The other huge advantage of the federation is that they have true Advanced Artificial intelligence that can run thousands of battle simulations to get the best battle plans and outcome, the ship AI can outmaneuver the imperium ships easily, AI can create new weapons based on battle data, etc. The imperium is a paper tiger rotting away. Most of their advanced technologies can not be replaced if lost and barely repairable. The federation can replace and repair their spaceship much faster than the imperium and even improve them based on battle data. The outcome of a war against the federation would be the same as what happened with the Tau, the imperium would suffer big losses, then other more important shits would pop out somewhere else in the galaxy and they would just be like, fuck it I have better things to do. In the end it's always hard to compared 2 different universe because they are not the same literary style, Star Trek is science fiction which means that it is based on an extrapolation of what science and technology could be in the future. WH 40K is a space fantasy like Star wars , it's basically medieval space battles with space wizards and space knights that have access to technology.
I am a huge Trek fan but yeah, the Federation's chances of survival are pretty bleak.
I'd say their biggest advantage is how quickly they can figure out how a piece of technology works.
I garuntee in relatively little time, Federation scientists and engineers will understand Imperial tech better than the Imperium itself.
I doubt it. A tau diplomat was possessed by a tzentch demon from simply touching a Gellar field generator's casement. They could recreate some stuff as the tau do, but the real secrets of mars, luna, and terra would be completely outside their paradigm.
The tech that supports even lasgun manufacture is the result of an ascendant human federation that almost rivalled the aeldari.
It's as arcane as it is scientific.
Wait till they are introducted to Ork technology...
I'd like to imagine to look on a tech-priests face when Federation engineers casually figure out how tech works and then start making more of it, while the priests themselves are panicking because they haven't been able to figure out how it works for a thousand years.
I recall theres some sort of light recon vehicle that they only have a few of, and they never turn them off, instead just corralling them into something like an animal pen, because they literally dont know how they work anymore and if they shut it off they cant figure out how to turn it back on.
I read this comment and imagined their engineers trying to figure out Ork tech .... my abs hurt flfrom laughing
@@Heretus What would be funny is Ork tech not being magical, just highly advanced Old One tech. The Mechanicus can't understand it, so they just chalked it up to Warp powers.
The best way to describe a macro cannon would be the equivalent of say firing a school bus at the speed of light, that’s how devastating those things are and in regards to lances, they’re more akin to pulse energy weapons, where the lance beam is charged and then stored into massive and I mean massive capacitors and then suddenly fired at a single moment, now each lance can be programmed so they can either dum all of their energy into a single massive and powerful shot which is powerful enough to punch through a chaos warship and out the other side, leaving a live massive hole in the middle of their ship, the other setting is a rendered cut down beam mode where if anyone who hasn’t played halo reach or used the Spartan laser, you know whenever you fire the thing it takes about two to three seconds for the entire beam to dissipate and for the more experienced players, know that if you turn quickly enough before firing you can essentially rake the laser beam for a few short seconds allowing you to hit multiple targets and the same can be said about the lance, where if the beam is turned into its lower setting it can essentially rake the side of a starships hull, and whilst not as powerful as the single lance bolt, it allows captains to either hit much smaller and faster enemies as well as to essentially slice the enemy ship into pieces, if not then rather than hitting a core component they could do much lighter damage but to multiple sub systems instead.
That being said imperial ships whilst the much larger ships are slower, the smaller ships are able to catch up if not even out perform more maneuverable opponents like the eldar or even necroms,
@@hadesdogs4366 no they're not, they shoot non relativistic projectiles... They're weak comparably for their size...
@@playlistnor macro weapons are hitscan.....
They don't fire anywhere close to the speed of light
@@isimiel3405 Nothing is hitscan, that's a game mechanic
Correct, but nova cannons do and the imperium as lots of those as well
I imagine a federation boarding party teleporting in, and getting mobbed by the ten thousand naval ratings, gun-hands, naval armsmen and press-ganged deckhands within minutes.
Question for the comments: Could the UFP defeat the tyranids? i mean they beat the borg who are kinda of the techy version of the Hive minds biological evolution thing. Thoughts?
short answer - no
long answer - are you joking ?
Tyranids are milion times worse than Undine (species 8472) which already are nigh unbeatable for Federation - sure you can develop a weapon to affect the Tyranids ... and use it once, maybe twice ... third time they become resistant, frourth time immune and by the fifth try they are using your weapons effects against you instead ...
Probably, they would just nuke the Tyranids from a distance. They wouldn't really beat them, but the Tyranids would decide that there's easier prey.
@mrfigaloopierre9610 the Nids would just adapt to the nuke, that's the tyrranids whole MO.
they've adapted to being dropped from orbit into an ocean of toxic waste from hive worlds, fought the death guard (servants of the plague god) to a point that the world they were on became so virile that when a hive ship slurped off the biomass it recoiled & the rest of the hive blasted that ship into oblivion.
the federations sole reliance on energy weapons would ironically get them steamrolled by a hive fleet, since they can overtime become immune to phaser fire & any other singular weapon a prey species uses.
this is why the imperium has kinetic munitions & other weapons mixed into its arsenal.
it makes adaptation to damage from two different weapon types impossible for the hive mind in that particular scenario.
I'd rather live in Star Trek though.
Everyone would. Two words holodeck, replicators lol
All those "Battles" of two imaginary units are like "and my father can kick your father" in kindergarten.
And thats what makes it fun.
Aren't they fun!
The difference in scale between these universes is absolutely massive. In terms of timeline the Imperium forces have tens of thousands of years over the Federation, even if their understanding of the technology they wield is pitiful. The only reason the Federation might have a chance is if they could figure out a way to interfere with the Imperial ability to access the warp. If they could do that then the Imperium forces are pretty much forced to stay out of Federation territory. Given enough time I could see the Federation bulking up its defences to be able to cope in terms of survival against most 40K threats but I think it would take quite a bit of time and a societal shift in order to do so.
They would probably have to start building mega-sized ships like those of the Imperium in order to be able to take hits and meet out punishment on a similar or greater scale. As far as ground warfare goes, that's one of the areas that really requires the societal shift but in terms of technology available the Federation could surely come up with more effective alternatives for pretty much any Imperium ground vehicle.
The Imperium didn't discover FTL until the 18th Millennia. So I wouldn't use time as a factor in technological development here. The Imperium has only had the ability of FTL for 24,000 years.
So technologically speaking they aren't too far apart the aesthetics aside. Also they do have automated systems for building ships as well as food production via replicators technology. And a total population of around 985 billion most of whom would quickly realize that the Imperium doesn't see them as worthy of life and that no prisoners will be taken. The human population being around 10 to 15 billion or so. Meaning the Xenos in the Federation outnumber the humans. This also means that when the Federation starts employing ground forces if they do at all. It's going to likely mostly consist of Androids as opposed to purely biological federation members. Because androids can be manufactured in mass production. And built for the purpose of engaging in such barbaric practice as war as far as the Federation would be concerned.
This is but one way of countering the Imperiums forces.
That's the real key: Trek is shown to constantly come up with whatever loophole in physics or tech would be convenient at the time. It's hard to predict exactly what the Federation would come up with, but you can be certain there'll be something. If the wild card turns out to be useful, Trek might indeed get to a stalemate with an established border. Though realistically, they'd be distracted by trying to negotiate with the Orks.
@DZ-X3 Negotiations with Orkz.
Expectations : We are going to send a team down to have a peaceful negotiation with these green humanoids.
How it's going after they make first contact...
Da Orkz Da Bests. Punity Ummi wanta talk to much . Ork smash weak ummi . Ummi go squish hahaha . Orkz negotiations 101 lol.
If you can't beat an Ork, he won't respect you enough to have a talk with you. Though the larger the Ork the more intelligent they are is a general rule. With the unfortunate side effect of the larger the Ork the more likely he is to have a proper WAAAGH!! around him.
Federation ships are much better, and are fitted with much better weapons and shielding when compared to the Imperium ships. It would likely take a fleet just to breach the Enterprises shields.
What about the Galatic Empire from Star Wars, or U.N.F.S.C from Halo? Could they stop the Imperium of Man?
Hey, great job. Best case in both settings is first contact is made by a Rogue Trader fleet. Either way a good chunk of the federation would disappear once someone meets Lt. Commander Data.
Actually, now it's 'turn the tables' time!
Question:
How would a Warhammer expeditionary fleet do if transplanted to the Star Trek Galaxy? People always like to put things from outside the 40k verse INTO the 40k home turf to make their argument. Now, strip an imperial force of its home turf and see how it does without renewable resources.
Or, even better, put both sides on an even starting footing, much like how troop- and base-builder RTS games like StarCraft function. Like, maybe fleets from both end up transplanted to a new pocket universe, a small star cluster. And, go!
I think the reason why it is easier to put the federation in 40k is because the federation is only a part of the galaxy, while the imperium is almost all of the galaxy. It would be nice to see a expeditionary fleet be transplanted into the star trek universe, but while they would raise Cain, they wouldn't be able to do too much because of lack of logistics, and the fact that it would probably take at least a century to conquer star trek given their pace during the great crusade..
I think it would matter if the imperium had access to the warp and its condition overall. Otherwise the feds would trap them in a single system.
@@atankersview Don't tell me here. In order to be fair, I want to see a video on it. [/evil grin]
So the Imperium gets to use the warp without the threat of the Chaos Gods. So that won’t end well for the federation.
Paused at 2:25 - I love Star Trek - but 40k wipes the floor with everything. Hell, you could put Star Trek, Star Wars, Halo, Aliens, Predator - hell every other Universe up against 40k, and they will still wipe the floor without breaking a sweat. Huge huge HALO fan, that is my Universe - but 40k is a total different animal - took a dive in to the lore of 40k, and just wow - that seriously needs a trilogy film ASAP.
Oh please, 40k can't even touch a fed ship.
Their weapons out range everything they have.
Ship phasers - 300,000 km
Photon torpedoes - 15,000 km - 3.5 million KM
Also torpedos travel at warp.
Trek is known to use time travel to win as well.
go back in time enough and use a certain torpedo and start rewriting planets and remove them from play
The torpedo I am talking about can be found in the Wrath of Khan.
One name xeelee sequence
There are some gentlemen here from The Culture who'd like a word....
My dude WH40k is literally ww2 levels of power according to some imperial armor books. WH40k is big but not powerful.
Picard shiny bald head overpower the astronomicon leaving billions to die from starvation and void of space and fall of the imperium. Federation holds total victory as the Imperium falls.
Honestly the best case scenario is the imperium going 'give us your FTL tech that doesnt involve jumping head first in to hell and we will leave you alone'
The first issue that breaks the whole thing...we see on screen ships fighting at visual range because it looks good on TV. But if you listen to them talk about the ranges they are fighting at, their max weapons range is more like 200,000 km, and their sub light maneuvering speed is 0.25c. Pretty much any major power in trek stomps anything else. Its like a F22 vs F4. You are under attack and blow up before you even know what is attacking you, often before you even know there is an enemy nearby.
Pretty much this, Imperium ships because of their use of mostly physical weapons wouldn't even be able to hit a Star Trek ship at that range. The lance weapons would be devastating sure, but they're mounted on the bow of a ship and a ST ship is far more manuverable so it's never going to be pointing at them anyway.
People making these comparisons are always blatantly biased (as we all are) and ignore obvious parts of the lore in both universes just so that their favourite wins. The only example anyone should need for the power of ST weapons, is the first episode with the Borg who have never encountered phasers at the time, it blows holes clean through that first cube, bigger than the size of their own Galaxy class firing the phasers in the first place. Phasers only seem less powerful at other times because everyone in their own universe already has adapted to counter them.
I thought about it, and at the end of the day, Star Trek is just as much Space Fantasy as Star Wars or Warhammer 40k can be. It's just a bit more subtle about it, and usually tries to cosplay as a somewhat scientifically-minded show, and stay in line with high Sci-Fi concepts for its stories. But in reality, its tech is all over the place, including in the bonkers technomagic rule of cool department that 40k specializes in.
So it all comes down to whether you accept to give Starfleet its transphasic torpedoes back (the ones they get access to after USS Voyeger returns home). If they don't have it, they're basically toast. But if they do, it's the other way around. Let me explain.
Navis Imperialis fleets are incapable of dealing with torpedoes that can't be hit, go through Star Trek shields and armor (including Borg subspace fields), and travel evidently much faster than Trek ships on full impulse, since they can't outrun torpedoes in Trek (and full impulse is about 0.6c by the way, so thrice as fast as the best the Imperials could get out of their plasma drives (0.2c)). And I shouldn't have to remind you that Void Shields do _not_ stop torpedoes in principle.
In addition, we've seen single transphasic torpedoes blow up to bits big fat Borg Cubes, and those are 3km long, wide, and tall. In terms of sheer volume of materials they're actually easily comparable to Retribution and Emperor class battleships. So we know that, unless we come up with some weird technobabble interaction between transphasic tech and Void Shields, one Starfleet cruiser outfitted with transphasic torpedoes could easily wipe out a whole battlefleet in one go, because those bad boys aren't exactly hard to hit you see...
You've said it yourself. It's a post scarcity civilization. Their ships can replicate these torpedoes on board for the God-Emperor's sake, so they don't even need to resupply most of the time. The only times they go back home is for vacations (vacations!! Do they get those in the Navis Imperialis? I don't think so 😅), or to perform extensive repairs and maintenance. Oh, and good luck trying to land troops if your transports get blown up the minute they enter the system...
The Imperium's only saving grace would ironically be... Chaos. It's the only thing that could and would easily prey on the Feds, regardless of transphasic torpedoes. And even then, you're not safe from having Starfleet bullshit its way out of Warp shenanigans with more technomagic and technobabble. These guys are legit tech wizards who might put Mechanicus tech priests into deep shame and introspection. And by the way most Star Trek writers are either scientifically illiterate or barely familiar with some niche nerdy science terms and soundbites (the former just copy the ill-applied nerdy jargon of the latter and mess it up even more).
I hate to say it, but I think the Emperor of Mankind might like the Feddies due to their secular views on life, the universe, and everything.
Thats true. But it would have been no fun to talk about trade deals and treaties lol
They are allied with xenos though and not to mention Data!
BigE would have PTSD flashbacks too the fall of the terran federation
Taht part when you speak about psychological efect of Astartes charging in lore its called transhuman dread, bdw normal Empire ships have crew size of large city, so gut luck bording it or repel bording team
@jakubkvacala1880 Just a quick aside, those crew numbers are all based on Battlefleet Gothic 2 on PC so are a bit questionable, I would expect them to get scaled back down at some point as they used to be just in the thousands, (probably maxing out in the mid 10's of thousand for the largest) as someone at GW is going to realise it renders the Guard obsolete as you've got ships with Crews of anything up to 100,000 shipping regiments numbering a few thousand.
@@maddlarkin According to 40K wiki Lunar and Gotic class cruisers have crew of approximately 95,000 crew, most of it convicts and servitors, but these are only numbers i found, bdw there would be more regiments on 1 transport, and transports would have much smaller crew then warship
@jakubkvacala1880 yeah it's all from Battle Fleet Gothic 2, the table top version was very careful to not give numbers for anything, the only time there was even close to a number was noting the Armageddon Class Battlecrusiers needed an extra 2,000 drafted to man the relays in its introduction fluff (and if the crews already 100k, who cares about an extra 2k) and a short story in Inferno by Andy Chambers who invented the system which estimated a Lunar classes numbers at 9,000 (tbh that's way to low, but story's worth a read if u can find it, really creepy with hints of AI)
The crews have balloned since BFG 2 came out of pretty much every class. I mean if u need to pacify a farm world why bother shipping a regiment of Guard, a those numbers a Crusiers arms men complement would dwarf most regiments so u may as well just send a Cruiser whose patrolling that way anyway.
I figure since this all sprouted from outside GW they'll retcon it down at some point, maybe if they ever re-release BFG, probably settling on a Lunar being around say 20-30K crew, which seems a lot more reasonable for a 6km long ship
@@maddlarkin well since Imperium dont use much automation, ships needs large crews, even loading macrocannons is done by muslepoewer, no autoladers
@@maddlarkin An imperial guard regiment is not a few thousand, typically. The normal size for them tends to be more like 50,000 or so each, but varies based on what type of regiment it is (some go down massively, as low as a few thousand). Also when you transport a regiment, you also send with it absolutely everything it needs. So you have the regiment, absolutely all their vehicles, supplies, ammo, etc. So rather than even just 25k to 50k people, it is 50k people AND everything it is believed they will use for the duration of the war (or at least a few months). So when you hear about a ship carrying 4 regiments, that is 200,000 people, with ground transports for all of them, plus hundreds to thousands of tanks, artillery, anti-air, etc, plus all supplies for all those people and all those vehicles, plus whatever else it is assumed they will need.
Imagine a Black Templar crusading fleet stumbling upon the federation. Humans and xenos working together..... so much anger 😂😂😂
And what if they had a betazoid......
Betazoid: "Captain! I sense furious anger all over the ship."
Black Templar: SORCERY!!! DIE, XENOS WITCH!!! * BBBZZZZZRRRRRRRRRR!!!!! *
[Indiscrimintate guts, gore, and screaming EV-ER-Y-WHERRRRE]
Grimdark makes me happy.... it has since 1987.... I was 10. LoL
I'm going to ignore the technological aspects of things, because both settings are run on handwavium and bullshitite generously mixed with 1-2-6-trimethyl-whatever-the-author-needs-at-the-moment-ine. Neither has any real internal consistency of it's capabilities when it comes down to it.
Star Trek is (in)famous for it's technobabble. Reverse the polarity of the warp core fluctuator stabilizers to render the grebonium inert so we can safely detach it from the proton deflector and we win!
meanwhile, in 40K what something can do mainly comes down to which army codex you're reading. If you're reading Space Marines then a single marine can re-take a planet from Chaos by accident, and if you're reading Tyranids then "dark age of technology Mk II venerable terminator armor" is long-winded term for "canned beef".
So then the conflict comes down to picking which imaginary tech takes precedence over the other imaginary tech, and at that point it's basically all just settled by referee decision. Anyway, I digress.
Assuming both settings are close enough in "power level" to make it a fight (otherwise there wouldn't be anything to argue about in the first place), the biggest issue I see for the Federation is just the general difference in the themes of the settings:
Star Trek is a hopeful vision of the future where we can put aside our differences and join hands to explore the galaxy while 40K has the famous tag line "in the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war". One wishes for coexistence through diplomacy with violence as a last resort, the other shoots first and later because it has no questions to ask.
In the end, that difference in theme is what decides the winner for me.
Violence essentially trumps every other method of conflict resolution; there's not much you can do if the other side punches you in the jaw and does things their way regardless of what you say, except also resorting to force. Even if it's just force in the sense that you're blocking their fist, you have still followed along with their escalation from words to violence. And beyond that, there is only using more force and/or applying it on a grander scale.
So, all else being equal (or at least close enough), the side willing to go to further extremes will eventually come out on top because they can escalate the conflict past a point where the other side won't follow, and things Star Trek would see as absolutely abhorrent, 40K sees a the bare minimum.
A mass versus class scenario?
A phaser disintegrates much better than the Necrons' Gauss cannons. Even Archer could blow up entire mountains. In TNG you can create cataclysmic volcanic reactions.
On the ground, WH wins unless ST has space superiority. A Baneblade is a perfect target for any ship in orbit.
The range and accuracy of phasers and photon torpedoes is extreme. Photon torpedoes even have shields. A Federation ship could theoretically destroy an entire WH fleet from a safe distance.
Even demons would be no problem for the Federation. They scan them, adjust the phasers and finally develop a weapon that can wipe them out on a multidimensional level. The demon would then really be dead. No respawn.
A Klingon once simply destroyed the entire biosphere of a planet. That would be unethical, but theoretically any Federation ship could do that.
The Empire will win if they send their entire fleet against the Federation, but the losses would be high. But the Empire has other problems, as we know. If you can't even defeat the Tau, you'll have a tough time against the Federation.
Mostly right, I don't think they would be able to deal with warp demons that easily, but Star Trek isn't exactly new to dealing with powerful physic entities.
@mrfigaloopierre9610 In Prodigy, Janeway had to deal with beings that devour entire timelines. After a short time, Janeway had modified her phaser with the sensor data so that the phaser fired at the frequency of the beings and could thus injure them.
And in Lower Decks, a dimensional rift was sealed that would have destroyed the entire universe and perhaps even the neighboring timelines. Warp space and demons are nothing more than a new anomaly that can be researched. It's only a matter of time. With all the resources of the Federation, it's not unrealistic if the first prototype is available within a few days.
Don't forget, Star Trek is on a comparable level of technology to the Necrons.
@@Jasmin-lg3gf Wow, that's actually crazy. Alright, Star Trek is even more OP than I thought
@mrfigaloopierre9610 Star Trek's technobabble is practically magic. The scanners can analyze everything down to the quantum level (so you can find out which universe someone is from, for example) and for every problem there is a particle that can solve it. Phasers, for example, use nadion particles, which can also block tears in space-time.
So what happens when the AI gets its own ideas and vents the ship? Or random red shirt becomes a psyker and the ship subsequently gets swamped in demons in the matter of minutes?