What is a Cult?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- Nowadays everyone gets called a Cult. KJV-only Baptists are a Cult, Non-instrumental Churches of Christ are a Cult, Foot-washing Pentecostals are a Cult. But should we really call everyone cults, or is there a real meaning to this term? We'll examine this subject by asking "What is a Christian?" and "What is a Christian Denomination?" and then get back to the core question of what a cult really is.
As a Roman Catholic, I never liked labeling other mainstream Christian groups as cults. I firmly believe they’re theologically incorrect, some more so than others, and it’s okay to just I say “I believe this group is theologically wrong.” But the term cult should really be reserved for exploitive and manipulative groups that work to entrap and control. The word should be reserved for those groups that pose a clear threat to their members.
i agree, and tend to use the word "heterodox" for those whom I think mistaken on matters of Theology.
Glory to Jesus Christ!
I’m a very staunch LCMS Lutheran and it always befuddled me when Catholics calls it a cult. I have many Catholic friends and have attended Catholic masses before and I can confidently say that we believe the vast majority of the same things and go about it the same as well. Unfortunately there are obviously a couple of sticking points that lead Catholics and Lutherans to be at each other’s throats and turn our attention away from the real enemies
There are different definitions for "cult" for Catholics. There is the "cult of Mary" in Catholicism. That only means veneration of Saint. That is different from cults like JWs or Mormons.
They are heretical sects, not necessarily cults.
When asking yourself, "Am I in a cult?" the first thing to ask yourself is, "Does the leadership of my group, or my group has a whole, seek to awaken the Great Old Ones from their ancient slumber, causing the earth to flame with a holocaust of ecstacy and freedom, where men will learn new ways to shout and kill and enjoy themselves?" If yes, you're in a cult.
😂😂😂😂😂
That is a good starting point.
Cthulu would approve if you ever managed to register on his consciousness
As someone who was legit raised in an ACTUAL cult by ANY of the definitions given in this video, I also say that the BITE Model is a wonderful tool for figuring out what is a cult and what isn’t a cult.
Or the C Model. C - Control
I wish I could give this video to so many people I’ve met in my life. I’ve legit had people tell me a certain denomination is a cult because they use a guitar in worship. That was it, the entire belief system was the same except for the use of a guitar. There is so much conversation that can happen between people if you’re willing to look at things the way you’ve laid them out in the video.
Gee. If using a guitar makes a cult, then my Catholic parish would have come under that category because our former choir had a guitarist in it, along with the organist, and I played mandolin in it for awhile. The presence of musical instruments does NOT signify a cult! A lot of mainstream churches would qualify for the cult label, if that was the only criteria used.
The problem is that the term cult can get a variety of definitions.. To me by now, it is actually a term used to disparage.Often a loaded term... And loading the language is typically. There is however things to look out for, when dealing with a a group. And that's control by leadership or group, and well leadership looking to obtain wealth on the groups expense. To some degree that is the case with virtually all the Churches. It wasn't the case with the ecclesia in the New Testament, although there were some problems with some ecclesias as well as Paul pointed out several times.
How about calling the "people" who told you that as a cult?
@@jrnfw4060 Tbf the Orthodox Catholic Church doesn't allow instruments and its been that way for almost 2000 years now.
I think the BITE model is a bit more succinct when defining what is a cult:
B - behavior control
I - Information control
T - thought control
E - emotion control
This is great! Can I use this model too?
I've been studying the Amish and, to my surprise at the time, they are a perfect fit for this standard.
Definitely Jehova's Witnesses then.
@@artix548 they do rumspringa though
Very good definition
Please keep up the good work. This is a chronically under-noticed channel and I hope that changes soon.
This is one of my favorite channels. I started watching before I came back to the Lord. Even as a non-believer, this stuff was fascinating, but now it is such a help in clarifying questions I have as a Christian. Thoroughly researched, and clearly presented; keep up the hard work.
Thank you! I am glad to hear the videos have been helpful to you.
I recently discovered and subscribed to this channel and have been watching each video as I have time. Thank you for providing non-biased clarity on the differing beliefs of the various religions.
Once I saw an ad on a bus listing the signs of an abusive relationship. It made me realise the leader of the cult I was in was doing all those things to someone but only one or two of them to anyone in particular. That's when I started calling him out.
As an anthropologist, (not the kind that studies cults specifically tho) I would say that a cult isn't really about things being taught as much as how the people are treated. The Luz del Mundo church teaches weird stuff that no other Christians believe but so do LDS Christians. But with Luz del Mundo, there's rampant sexual abuse , behavior control and social isolation. I would say this constitutes a cult. LDS, as far as I am aware, does not have these features so I dont think it is.
I would strongly disagree with the idea that the Nation of Islam is a cult tho. My Muslim homies dont see them that way
There are a lot of social control elements to the LDS church that give it a cultish feel, but I think to label mainstream Mormonism as a cult is wrong (there are legitimate cults within Mormonism, however, such as the FLDS).
The Nation of Islam, however, is absolutely a cult. I’m surprised that your Muslim friends would say it isn’t, given the fact that its doctrine is so incredibly different from actual islam (which doesn’t necessarily make it a cult, but they’re about as far from Muslims as Scientologists are to Christians). Furthermore, their founder believed himself to be a prophet, and fostered a cult of personality around himself, which has continued with later leaders of the sect. Add on the fact that the Southern Poverty Law Center labels them as a hate group, and I think it’s fair to say that at best they’re cult-like and at worst a full blown cult.
Thanks for the vid! I apreciate you being respectful to the different Christian types.
11:09 Seventh-Day Adventists absolutely do NOT deny a literal hell. They just don't believe hell is eternal. They believe that the unrighteous will burn and be tormented in hell for a period of time but that the individual will eventually be burned up--not be tormented endlessly. Texts such as Revelation 14:11 where "forever and ever" is used is understood by SDAs to be hyperbolic language such as "I've been waiting forever and ever to get a pay raise."
The justification for a limited time in hell is based on texts such as Malachi 4:3 which refer to the wicked as becoming "ashes". SDAs believe that souls can only live eternally if they have salvation in Christ; a wicked person's soul is unable to live eternally based on texts such as Ezekiel 18:20 which indicates that the soul that sins shall die.
Daniel 12:2
[2]And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and EVERLASTING CONTEMPT
Matthew 25:45-46
45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’
46 And these will go away into ETERNAL PUNISHMENT, but the righteous into eternal life.
Revelation 20:10, 14-15
And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOREVER AND EVER. . . . Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
@@StephenJoshParreño Thanks for responding. "Everlasting contempt" and "eternal punishment" do not conflict with the idea of wicked people being ultimately burned up. A wicked person's fate is final, everlasting, and eternal since they made the decision to be lost. There is no second chance after death, so there is no conflict there to me.
I've addressed the language of "forever and ever"--Scripture sometimes uses that term to mean an indefinite long period of time. Exodus 21:6, for example, uses the word "forever," but it is does not mean an endless period of time in the very literal sense.
The Bible has verses that indicate the wicked will die and turn into ashes (Ezekiel 18:20, Malachi 4:3, etc), implying burning will not last literally forever, and but there are other verses that you and I both quoted that indicate that hell could potentially be forever in a literal sense. I have no issue with fellow Christians who hold to one view or the other as the text is open to being read either way. However, I do not believe a person's soul is immortal and that is the only way they can burn forever in the literal sense. I Timothy 6:16 says only God has immortality. A person who burns forever in the literal sense would mean he has eternal life too. Our Lord is clear that the wicked will be destroyed in hell in Matthew 10:28, so to me, this means there is an end of the burning at some point.
I take the position that the unrighteous will burn in hell for a long, extended period of time, but at some point during that burning, the wicked will be burned up and destroyed. It is the only possible way I've seen that we can reconcile all the verses that the Bible provides for us.
Journalists using any word carefully, that would be the day.
Absolutely brilliant dissection, and to see you do it all in one take without losing pace or suffering shortness of breath is astonishing- well done is all I can say good sir.
Jehovah's witnesses aren't Christians. They believe that human effort is what gets you into paradise, not faith in Jesus' sacrifice. They use the scripture that reads something like "faith without works is dead" to mean "if you don't tow the line we tell you to, jehovah's gunna kill you at Armageddon". That scripture is supposed to mean that you do what you can to take care of your fellow humans (just as Jesus did). But the witnesses don't understand that scripture or anything about Jesus as actual Christians do. They took a good, loving deity who sacrificed himself for all humanity out of the equation. Otherwise, they can't function as they do. In reality, witnesses are more like Scientologists- a corporation masked as a religion specifically to swindle and abuse people. That's what a cult does. Period. Paragraph. No discussion.
ETA- the witnesses also check off all the numbered points mentioned in the video of what makes a cult.
Agreed. I came out of it and am still recovering...
SDAs believe in a literal hell, we just don't believe that it is eternal.
A cult is what the big congregation calls the little congregation.
I want to thank you for another balanced and well-researched presentation. As a Catholic Christian, I have often been accused of being a member of a “cult”. Given that I live in the south this is no surprise because my Protestant brothers and sisters often learn half-truths and misconceptions about the Catholic Church. When someone badmouths the Catholic Church, my automatic assumption is that they are doing so in good faith based upon misinformation they received from someone they trusted. The indiscriminate use of the word “cult” has only cheapened the word and made a general slur against anyone having opposing beliefs. We see the same thing happening with the word “racist”.
As for the quote attributed to Mariam Horvat (timestamp 11:53) I would urge you and your viewers to dismiss her comments. She presumes to speak for the Catholic Church but the pure and simple fact is she has no authority to do so. She is obviously entitled to her fallible nonauthoritative opinion but that is all it is regardless of how many letters follow her name. I read the entire article where the quote was lifted and it is very clear to me that she has selectively pulled from Catholic teaching to make her assertion. She wants to label every Protestant as a “heretic”. The Catholic Church does not do that. That word is used for a very specific situation and does not apply to Protestants in general. In short, it applies to someone who is/was Catholic and obstinately denies or doubts a core doctrine of the Catholic Faith. For example, Martin Luther was referred to as a heretic, whereas modern-day Lutherans are not. If someone was born into the Lutheran faith they are not willfully denying or doubting the Catholic Faith because quite often they don’t know the Catholic Faith. The same would be true of a myriad of other Christians in various denominations that do not know or understand the Catholic Faith. They are operating in good faith and doing the best they can to live a good Christian life with the knowledge they have been given.
It might have been helpful to discuss the evolution of the word “cult”. An examination of history shows that the word “cult” shares an origin with other words like “culture” and “cultivate”. These words emerged from the Latin “cultus” which had a range of meanings like tilling, cultivation, training, education, and even worship. Given that English is a living language, the word “cult” has evolved through a series of different meanings. As noted in the video, the vernacular use of the word “cult” refers to a person or group that uses psychological, physical, emotional, and other forms of manipulation to control others.
Within the Catholic Church, the word “cult” has positive, neutral, and negative connotations.
As a positive example, the Catholic Church is comprised of six different liturgical rites, and within those rites, there are twenty-four particular Churches. The word “cult” denotes the followers of specific liturgical forms. All of these liturgical forms and churches are considered part of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church and are in communion with each other. It is perfectly acceptable for a Catholic Christian can attend any of these liturgical forms and/or churches.
Another positive example is the “cult of the saints”. This practice goes back to the earliest days of the church when victims of persecution were commemorated and honored for their witness and fidelity to Jesus Christ.
A neutral example can be found in the marriage law of the Catholic Church. A Catholic Christian is required to secure a dispensation if they desire to marry an unbaptized person. The dispensation is needed for what is called “disparity of cult,” which simply means they are not operating at the same level of worship. It is not intended as a derogatory word toward the unbaptized person. It’s simply an acknowledgment of the disparity in their worldviews and the complications associated with that type of marital union. It requires particular attention on the part of the couple and their pastor because the disparity requires even greater circumspection.
A negative example can be found in moral theology. The Catholic Church requires its members to have respect for the life of the body but does not blindly make it an absolute value. It rejects the “cult of the body” which it regards as a neo-pagan notion that tends to idolize physical perfection and success at sports. By its selective preference of the strong over the weak, such a conception of human life often leads to the perversion of human relationships.
Anyway, those are my thoughts and I hope to view more of your videos in the future.
I see Catholics saying that people just don't understand Catholicism. It seems to me like that's just how Catholics deal with the criticisms. No one "gets" it. I don't think that's entirely true. The more you understand, the more it seems wrong.
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr Can you provide a specific example?
@@edwardlucas3575 Mary worship?
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr Is it your understanding that Catholics worship Mary?
@@edwardlucas3575 My understanding is that Catholics say they do not worship Mary.
Your words scratch an itch, thank you!
Well done, thoughtful and enlightening!
Bro. Joshua, you're a blessing to the body of Christ. 👍
"Mormons" or rather members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints don't merely claim to be Christians. The Church's claim is that it is the same organization that Christ established before his death and resurrection. The Church makes the claim to the same priesthood keys and authorization Christ gave to the Apostles. The Church also believes that authority was lost when the Apostles were killed and thus lost and thus had to be restored. 2 Thessalonians 2:3. I would also note, that the Church does not say a person who is not a member of the Church but claims to be a Christian isn't a Christian. To a member of the Church, to say that of a person who believes in Christ but who isn't a member would seem Pharisaic or rather...rude. However, the Church does deny that any other church has the priesthood authority of Jesus Christ/Heavenly Father.
Yep, just about covers it. Here's an interesting video on the topic: ruclips.net/video/7rV6gUipBu0/видео.html
@@KnuttyEntertainment Ya that is a good video...wish the audio was better. This guy does good work too. ruclips.net/channel/UCJgEls1xaRLC-np8xiwI1yA
I'm starting to feel a bit contentious. Maybe we should start asserting that those who are not part of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are 'non-christian cultists'.
@@GldnClaw indeed. But no sincere follower of Christ would do that, now would they ; )
Stephen Hassan defines it according to the "control" they exert. Behavior, Information, Thought, and Emotion........it is very practical.
As a Catholic I think I can add something that really defines if a strong religious leadership system (like the one we have) is a cult or not. And i'm going to do in the most Catholic way I can, a story.
So, one time at mass the Deacon was going to give a homily, and was about to give a reading and said the wrong prayer before it. We replied and he just laughed at himself "wait that's not right". He called himself out, and showed, he was wrong. Clearly not a cult leader, a cult leader would most likely try to say everyone heard him wrong or something else.
Or with the Pope's last letter about TLM masses (a very VERY touchy subject within Catholicism), there is mass outcry and most Catholic social media groups are either in flame wars over this, or are out right commending what was done.
That's the thing, that's why the Pope is not a cult leader. We are allowed to, without fear, disagree with him. Sure there are rare times when you really can't, but nothing really culty. The Pope can still be blamed.
I think that is a key word many folks forget when trying to say what is or is not a cult. Blame. Can you blame the leader? If no, the chances of something being a cult sky rocket, it might not be a cult per say. But you better check around and see if their is any kool aid.
I thought that Seventh Day Adventists did believe in hell, but they just didn't believe that it was eternal.
Correct. But permanent and final.
You may want to include Steve Hassin's BITE model. Very helpful in determining a high contol organization.
This may not clear up what the video was saying about "Christian cults". Pentecostals (implicitly) ask their congregation to participate in 3+ church sponsored events a week. Baptists have something similar. Then there are fundamentalists that think that if you don't adhere to the Bible everyday, then you have no right calling yourself a Christian. All these would be part of high-demand groups... But would they be cults in practice. I don't think the BITE can be used when looking at denominational differences imo.
Steven Hassan is highly criticized by his peers. he has no credentials in the field of Cults and has never been recognized as a court ordered expert. Please read the following link which is a critical look at his book by an expert in the field
cultnews.com/2012/08/third-installment-of-steven-hassans-trilogy-adds-little-understanding/
Not particularly no.
His application of what it means to control behavior is far too broad.
@@marcopollo366 yes we shouldn't mistake honest devotion for cultism.
@marcopollo366 oh it definitely can be used. Important to understand that even individual congregations can vary on their bite model analysis.
It is all about how groups control members. That group can be huge and geographically well spread out, or it can be a small group of 5 to 10 people even.
The bite model is about behaviors. So yeah denominations can be generally assessed with the understanding that each congregation could vary
The Problem I have with the BITE model is the fact that any Repentant Christian will Control their own behavior, Thoughts, and Emotions. Used incorrectly, the Bite Model can categorize ALL Christians as Cultists. This is the danger with worldly practices.
Understanding that it should be applied to organizations, the Bite model CAN make sense, though shouldn’t ALL Churches (Heretics or not) attempt to assist their congregates in controlling Sinful behaviors?
The BITE model seems to be mostly promoted by a guy who makes money defining cult as broadly as possible.
You shall know them their fruits and Not just what they say, Love God, love of neighbors and self at last. Jesus Christ as Lord first Amen
Can u do a video on seventh day Adventist Calvinist and messianic Jews
I'd love to see a video on Messianic J*ws.
@@brooksdurham5285 why censor Jews?
@@oat5662 because messianic "jews" are not jewish-- they are christian. Their entire beliefs system and identification goes entirely against the definition of judaism in both a religious and ethnic sense, I say this as someone raised orthodox jewish.
If it wasn't for their constant attempts to enter and affect jewish communities I wouldn't care (religious freedom baby, good stuff and definitely important for us jews), but it's an important distinction to make because of that behavior.
There will be a video on SDA release near the end of December 2021.
@@danofthehour4822 You're ridiculous. Jesus was the messiah from Isaiah. Most or all of the earliest Christians were jews. For you to say they're not Jews while being part of the synagogue of Satan is disgusting.
11:05 The Seventh-Day Adventists don't deny a literal Hell, we deny that sinner's will live forever. The fire is eternal, but the sinful are not. We believe they will surely die. For our God is a consuming fire.
A friend of mine is a lecturer in Religious Studies, and she said that the term 'cult' is not generally used in academia.
This is such a well put together video that really gives you a full appreciation for the subject. I hope so many more can see this!
"The Leader is good, the Leader is great, we surrender our will as of this date" 🤣🤣🤣
Most often, what I see from people is simply "I'm the good one because I say I am and you're the bad one because I say you are". When pressed for clarity on why they often give contradictory if not outright irrational claims and become hostile rather than open to discussing in greater detail.
We should, I think, be far more concerned with sociological cults than with labeling each other theological cults as the latter serves to blur and almost protect the former.
You can use the BITE model to determine if any organization, group, club, or gathering of people is a cult.
The bite model measure control of behavior, information, thought, and emotion.
There are definitely christian sects that strongly fill in on all 4 of those characteristics and there are sects that hardly fit the bill at all.
Having one in each category doesnt necessarily mean one is in a cult. But having all of them definitely does.
The authors of the BITE model use subtle language in the criteria that presupposes the thing is a cult. They could have chosen to use rhe word "group" but instead they prime you to conclude that the thing is a cult even before you are done with your analysis.
@@bubbles581 sounds like something a cult leader or member would say
I like your channel! New subscriber
Well done young man I wish I could subscribe to your channel twice, I hope I live long enough to see you when you become my age, and that's meaning a lot coming from me, as one that had no other choice but to leave all of these so-called churches and I've tried them all and listen to all of their Doctrine and theology, I am commanded by the scriptures to withdraw myself from these denominations, but I would really love to sit down at a home fellowship with you and encourage each other in the fullness of the scriptures of God, let no one despise you in this calling you have in the Lord little brother.
Can you do a video on freewill Baptist vs independent Baptist?
Very well done.
Unfortunately, the use of the term "cult" is used similarly to how the term "racist" is used these days. Basically meaning a person or group who disagrees with you. It completely disregards the actual definition of the word.
and i feel like the watering down of which has made it so cult members and people holding extreme or "cultish" views in general have even less of a chance of questioning those views and getting out of their situation when they are rightfully called out for being in a cult/cult-like group. this is why the word cult needs to be better defined in the broader population.
@@abaddon2148 So does the term racist. Real racists rejoice as they can hide in a crowd. We all know what a cult is...over the last 40 years we've had plenty of examples. Trying to attribute the term to sects we don't agree with is incorrect, insulting, not based on any authority to expand the term. Let's just stick to using the term for Jim Jones and Waco.
Correct.
I've heard many different religions called cults. From the ones that stand outside the mainstream; Mormons - JWs .....to even nominal christian congregations.
And of course, I've seen many call 12 step groups like AA & NA cults.
For these people cults simply means a group they are not a part of that has its own teachings, meetings & verbiage.
It's like "I don't like" your group so you're a "cult."
@@rconger384
That's exactly what it is.
Even nominal Christian churches are called cults by atheists
There is so much arrogance within our ranks. So many lack humility that we should have in our beliefs. I like how this channel objectively researches and describes various aspects of Christian beliefs. But I’m still waiting on a video on the denomination of which I am a member- the Missionary Church :)
Found your channel, and I was extremely interested in many of these videos for the substance: your precise and yet concise classification and histories of various Protestant groups was something I, being a traditional Catholic with limited detailed knowledge of the later schisms and regroupings after the original ruptures in 16th Century, benefitted from. I know about Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, and I know the evangelical/mainline distinction, but didn’t know where all these modern groups came from and how they related to one another. Thanks for piecing it together.
Also like your neutral presentation style...which you in another video candidly admit is not ultimately “right” but is a helpful first step. You have to know what it is before you can make a judgment about it. Dare I say it is a Scholastic approach? I suppose Aquinas himself would be impressed by your methodology, especially in this medium, although he would then set about systematically breaking down your own beliefs, which you covered in another video.
This video, too, was great. I think it could be made better (although even longer) by also explaining the neutral usage of “cult”: cultus, culture. A common cult...in this benign usage...is necessary for a common culture. And still in proper and technical Catholic usage, “cult,” means something different...not sociological at all.
You would probably find the movements and changes in the Catholic Church beginning in the late 19th century, and especially after 1958 fascinating. If you can cover the nuances of Eastern/Oriental Orthodox history with such alacrity, treating the modernist and traditionalist battles within the Catholic Church would be a cinch for you.
In French, Le cult usually means Protestants in general.
le culte 😉
If a church claims to have the only truth and that they alone are saved they are a cult.
After watching your video I am convenienced ferther into thinking NO one knows what a cult is. Defentions are so many & diverse they seem to me nothing more than opinions, likes or dislikes, what's comfortable or not personally, and based such differing base lines it is impossible to be sure for one's self. Obviously there clear groups that could have some kind of label like Jime Jones, David Korish etc.
The simple definition of a cult that separates itself from a method of slander (ie labeling SBC, KJV only Baptists, A of G): When most Christian churches are centered on the teachings of Jesus Christ (the only infallible human who ever lived - though also divine) a cult (although may call themselves "Christian") are centered on a mortal person or committee who are never to be questioned or disagreed with - for such idolatrous group elevates such leaders to that of god
Seventh day adventist believe in a literal hell but it doesn't exist yet until all is fulfilled in prophecy and God creates hell for the devil and his angels and those who are lost. Also they believe hell is not eternal.
This is not what I was taught in my undergrad 30 years ago in my Cults class. A cult has these qualifications:
1. Founding prophet
2. Extra Biblical writings
3. End Times prophesies
The definition of cult really shouldn't have anything to do with who calls themselves Christian nor with how controlling a group is.
I personally believe that a Christian based cult/heretical sect usually involves dismantling the trinity in some way. The trinity is the core principle of orthodoxy, and what sets the Christian faith apart from the world. imho
Jesus was a Jew, the Jews didn't believe in the Trinity. Jesus never taught the Trinity. Satan doesn't believe the Trinity.
@@joshpotter9261 as we all know, the jews sure did love jesus!
John 5:17:
But He answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working.” For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.
Matthew 28:18-20
And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
@@lol-st7561 Lets unpack, that shall we? The wording is pointing to the Jews' viewpoint of what Jesus was saying. If Jesus were actually publishing that he were equal to God, then how do you explain John 5:19 where he says that the Son cannot do anything of his own initiative except for what he sees the Father doing (or what the Father allows, or is in accord with the will of the Father)? Furthermore Jesus continues at John 14:28 The Father is greater than I. Nowhere does Jesus himself declare himself to be God or in an equal position.
You're misapplying John 5:18 as Jesus did observe the Sabbath, yet the Jews were claiming that he didn't, Jesus was saying that he was God's Son, the Jews were trying to misconstrue his words saying that he claimed equality with God.
It's all in the context.
John 10 Jesus clearly refutes their false accusation. He said he is God's Son, NOT God.
Even the RCC and so called Orthodox scholars have pointed out Matthew 28 is a corrupted Scripture used to support the trinitarian cult.
IMHO: Joshua, methinks this was a tough topic for you to take on. "Cult" is a word in the English language, a word with no Biblical word for it that I know of. So shud we confine ourselves to the OED definition(s) or Merriam-Webster? Do we indeed need a general word for groups which claim to be Christian, but their doctrine is such indicate the person who believes it, is not a begotten-again (GENN-) Christian, not regenerate, not saved, never having been transformed, & not having eternal life -- then we add to that 1) believing that the Bible means only what the leadership says it means; 2) everyone in the group must adhere to a long list of beliefs (little room for doctrinal disagreement) which are uncommon beliefs of professed Christians (like one may not get a blood transfusion). Also, aside from 1 & 2, a group where the leadership exercises strict control over the personal lives of its members, qualifies for inclusion in the descriptive word (e.g. cult). Was my Bible College a cult for its rules on students? Like no beards; can't get engaged or married without their permission.
The problem is who decides what is a heresy. “But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers” The trinity doctrine is not taught by the Apostles. Is that a heresy?
Tremendous, very clearly explained.
I wouldn't consider any group that doesn't agree with the original Nicene Creed to be a Christian group.
Exactly: heretical Christian sects.
That covers many Protestant churches, and of course JW and LDS.
I would say, at one LDS was a cult. It is now a happy clappy heretical Christian sect. And JW is still cultish.
I find it slightly easier to put everything into two groups. High vs low demand religions.
If we’re talking in broad strokes, that distinction is a better starting point as cult vs religion.
To me entering a religious group should be as easy as leaving it, for cults it's very easy to enter, extremely hard or impossible to leave.
"As many as are LED by the Spirit of God, they are the children of God." Romans 8:14.
The given definition would disqualify Scientology as a cult.
Many will say, "LORD, Lord", and Jesus will say, "I NEVER knew you." Matthew 7:21-23
Yeah, my biggest problem with the "cult" moniker is that most of the definitions used apply equally well to early Christianity. If your definition can be used to describe Jesus, Peter, and Paul as cult leaders, your definition is probably bad.
Are you thinking of verses like Luke 14:26 and Matthew 10:37?
Based Jim Jones
I would label evolution a cult. It has all the markers you use.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to label them all as cults. The age, and public acceptance of fundamentally damaging practices and beliefs shouldn't be grounds for exclusion from a category into which one meets the criteria.
I find it more helpful to not ask if some organization is A CULT. But rather ask is the organisation is CULTY. I was raised as a Mormon. I don't think the church is a cult but it can be very culty.
Thanks much for this video.
I think labeling groups a cult has just become a pejorative for groups you don’t like. Focusing on putting a label on everyone and trying to fit them into a box may make life simpler, but is not terribly accurate or useful. Those 13 points to tell what a cult is can be stretched to fit almost any religion or organization. Think of Catholic, Joel Olsteen, or Apple while going through the list and you can stretch it to make it work.
Do you know how many people try to fit Latter-day Saints into the cult box by using that model or the bite model? So called anti-cult deprogrammers have engaged in despicable behaviors trying to label various groups and un-brain wash them.
dear sir, since you rais the question of who is christian, do you regard mormons or jehovah witnesses as such? when you answer , I'll tell you why I ask
I think we just need to understand why we are using the term. Because everyone has different reasons. There's no good definition imo, because the issues being addressed when using the term can almost always be applied to any group, near invariably. The concept will change with time as society changes. Christianity in the first centuries absolutely would've been a cult cuz it was a very, deeply antisocial movement resulting in ppl rejecting friends and family, being controlled by higher leadership, etc etc. But it wasn't necessarily harmful or damaging, and still had greater positive effects (using a secular assessment).
Interesting. One thing to add is that the definition of cult applied to whole denominations can create blindspots within big denominations. E.g. there are Catholic parishes and congregations that definitely meet the sociological checkboxes of a cult, like the Integral Society or the Society of St. Pius, that do harm members critically through spiritual abuse. But in contrast to that the Catholic Church isn’t a cult. I think the term cult should be applicable for groups within Christian denominations as well.
Some people jokingly refer to any rabid fandom a cult. Such as fans of Star Trek, Star Wars, Harry Potter etc.
After theses 13 points I'm confused about LDS. The half cult? Some are right, some not. Idk anymore
1:01, all those answers are incorrect; because a Christian (according to Scripture: Acts 11 verse 26) is someone who emulates Jesus Christ.
Mormonism is both a sociological and theological cult/ heretical sect if you prefer that term.. end result is the same
Can you give your testimony sometime how you came to Christ?
@@silentservant_ He's an independent baptist
This is really well done, thank you.
It would also be useful to note that the sociological definition of cult could be properly applied to non-religious or pseudo-religious groups, such as the various forms of radical Marxism and Postmodern neo-Marxism. Indeed, some have claimed that Marxism is metaphysically gnostic. Of course, here I am already starting to blur the line between sociological cult and theological (metaphysical) cult.
Perhaps that illustrates how the distinction between those two uses is not as clear as it at first seems: bad metaphysics (theology) is a necessary enabler of sociological cultic practice.
Speaking theologically, that is why heresy is so very dangerous.
I tend to agree that Catholicism shouldn't be classified as the same religion as Protestant denominations. Of course denying Catholicism represents Christianity, but Protestantism does, requires claiming that Christianity began five hundred years ago rather than two thousand years ago.
To make it simple, just use the the term 'not biblical' for groups and denominations.
Great video! What's the deal with the railroad tracks? I love trains, but I don't get how it fits in with this video.
@Ready to Harvest how would you classify the SDA church?
14:32 David Koresh was not the founder of the branch davidians.....they were founded in 1929 by Benjamin Roden.
When I was young, I was taught that a religion is a belief in a deity, but a cult is a belief in the supreme authority of a person.
I have read that Buddha did not teach belief in a deity but did allow it if helpful. If this is true, then deity is not an essential requirement of Buddhism, just an option. So I would classify it as a philosophy, not a religion, though for many it obviously is.
Some would say that Christianity is a cult, taking a position against the Deity of Christ. However Jesus always pointed to God The Father, teaching that we should pray to the Father. As far as I am aware, he never directed anyone to pray to himself, only to The Father. He also said that his words are not his own but he only speaks what he hears from the Father. So, I would say that whatever the view concerning the deity of Christ, Father God is held supreme, therefore it is a religion & not a cult.
I think of the word cult to be a spectrum where any denomination could be considered to have some degree of beliefs or practices that stand in the way of or stand beside acceptable Christian practices and beliefs.
I believe that there are a lot of churches and movements that may not be a cult, but are certainly "cultish".
I think it's a cult if they teach doctrines that work against your salvation. This is spiritual abuse. Other cults have physical abuse. I define a cult as having abuse, but you can further separate them into spiritual-only abuse and including-physical abuse.
I researched cults a number of years ago and one thing they seem to have in common is the use of hard sell tactics in attaining members. There is a book available on line that explains them.
I think it is petty to judge other established churches on the basis of doctrines particular to your own denomination. LOL Keep it simple and let God be the judge of a person's faith.
Most cults make very little effort to attain members. Some of them tell their members not to try to recruit others, - Which, by your standard, makes many hardcore cults less cults that the average Evangelical church. Walk into a Baptist church, you'll hear, "Tell, tell, tell people about Jesus. Bring a friend next Sunday." In the Message cult, you'll hear, "Don't try to convince people to join."
The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society became a "cult" or "cult like" from about 1916-1917 onward, under the second president "Judge" Joseph Franklin Rutherford and the leadership after him. The original WTBTS and Bible Students under Charles Taze Russell as president was nothing like a cult (other than the so called "unorthodox" beliefs that they hold/held) There was/is freedom of thought and expression in the Bible Students movement while Russell was president and also today amongst the Bible Students (i know because I am a Bible Student Christian, we do not use "Bible Student" to represent another "sect" but merely as an identifier for those who hold similar views and desire fellowship together) Charles Taze Russell was not the cult leader evangelical groups label him as. However the same cannot be said about the WTBTS after his passing and currently in operation. They have rejected the freedom in Christ that C.T Russell encouraged and showed, and they are very much a different group now. The only similarities are they still teach that there is no Trinity, no eternal torment for the unsaved and a future Kingdom of God on earth, other than these three things they are vastly different in doctrine and practice than we are.
How does the International Churches of Christ fit the sociological definition?
You are so cool man! you talk fast! thank you I love how much info you cram into short videos what an intro
if a cult is any church which has departed from the gospel perhaps if our fruit are anything to go by, WE ALL HAVE.
so maybe we are ALL CU:LTISTS
oh, some have departed christianity OVERTLY.
but the rest of us , if our fruit are off, do this covertly, ie we are hypocrites
that a term applies to everyone does not make it void.
we are all cultists.
just as we are all sinners
It's a family resemblance
유익하네요!
cult doesnt have anything to do with christianity. it can be anything
Jashua's three references to the term "Christian" in the NT is not definitive. He did not bear in mind that the NT was heavily edited by the Roman Christian church fathers for over 200 years until it was canonized, and most likely threw in the term "Christian" in some of those references.
When he talked about the criteria for what makes a socio economic cult it crazy how Jehovahs Witnesses fall in nearly every category
Christ will separate the sheep from the goats on the Last Day. As far as doctrine goes, it is difficult to see how someone who says they are a Christian could deny the Trinitarian nature of God, the two natures of Christ, and Christ's sacrificial atonement on behalf of sinners. You cannot deny we are all fallen sinners. Obviously, there are a multitude of other doctrines that flow from Scripture. But denying these three issues of the Person and works of God is highly suspect. But again, we will know for sure when we are all called to the Judgment Seat. Each must follow their own conscience and each will be judged according to the light given to them.
A real example of a genuine cult any church that follows John McArthur,Wretched,Justin Peters or Stevie Lawson.
Saddly, looking carefully the 13 characteristics listed for the definition of cult, we will soon conclude that most, if not all of Christian denominations are indeed cults.
Sounds like Jehovah's witnesses I was involved with them for over 40 years
I was raised in that hell ..im now born again going to a Baptist church its so liberating Praise God !
How did you wake up? Got a few JW friends and need tips.
@Life With Nancia I got over 40 years I even was there before the 1975 debacle . I get all my information from the best source Mike and Kim 👍
@Life With Nanciadon't worry about finding a church. Remember if you find Jesus Christ and that's all you need and believe he's our savior just use your Bible. As long as you believe Jesus is your savior who died for you that's your first read your Bible and you'll be. Remember when two or three are gathered together in my name which is Jesus Christ he is always with you. You don't need to go to a building. A lot of times when witnesses leave and they've been in there all their lives they don't believe anything else could be the truth. But there is Jesus Christ he's the truth not watchtower corporation and the 10 evil governing body. ❤️❤️❤️👍👍👍
I think heterodox is a better word than cult in nearly any denominational context. Destructive and controlling NRM is also useful
Interesting enough I learned in sociology classes that the technical definition of a cult is a religion that is not considered a religion yet. Early Christian groups were considered to be Colts by those who had the dominant religious affiliations at the time of early Christianity
With apologies to the late US Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart, I probably am not capable of coming up with a good all-encompassing definition for what is a cult. But I know one when I see it. (Hello Jehovah's Witnesses.)
Skip to 15:23 He really gets going