Intellectual Debate with Dutch and Lenny / Hidden Dialogue / Red Dead Redemption 2
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- Dutch and Lenny talk about Evelyn Miller and Philosophy.
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Arthur should've written a fake Miller book that said “Micah is a rat” and given it to Dutch, it's his greatest weakness.
I like your thinkin'
ᴇᴠᴇʀɪᴋ just tell the real miller after just meeting him
Do this after he got the brain injury
Dutch has more real outlaw street cred than Miller
Arthur is too stupid to do that.
This speaks volumes about the two characters. This conversation made me realise that Dutch is used to peddling his philosophy to people who are not as well read as him; the moment he has to defend his ideas to someone more intelligent he gets defensive and angry. Because he isn't searching for a debate; he's searching for affirmation.
deep down dutch is rather insecure its what allowed michah to manipulate him so well
Its rather sad cause Dutch is well known by friends and enemies alike because of his CHARM. But charm =/= inteligence and it really shows when many of his dumb decisions cause everything to go to shit. And still... because of that same charm some members like Bill and Javier stick around for/with him even in the end.
I love that. RDR2 is written more like a novel and less like a TV show or a movie, all thanks to these little moments and very thoughtful character writing... The characters feel like real people... This writing is superb.
@CrookedClown420 You’re absolutely spot on with your analysis of Dutch’s self-esteem and his dynamic with others. However, in Dutch’s defense though... it’s not like Lenny said anything particularly profound. He basically just said he believes Evelyn Miller is empty and full of platitudes, not much of an argument in my eyes. Wish rockstar wrote in a little more detail. I wish Lenny convinced Dutch of what he was saying as well, and not just challenged him on his beliefs.
@@Alexandrius_Caesar I think that's kind of the point though, to show that Dutch is stubborn and defensive about his ideals.
I miss Lenny
It should have been Micah
We all do
miss hosea i loved seeing him work his magic on fools 😂
Why does no one miss me
Sean Macguire because you are a crazy Irish bastard.
''Now Lenny! You're too smart to spend the rest of your life robbing banks'' That's some sneaky foreshadowing right there
Rip
Blaiku
Dutch only manipulated him.
Your right maybe I should of spent more time instead of robbing banks.
@@blackstardragon_ Then the manipulator gets manipulated by a snake tongued rat...
@@lennysummers3063 we love you
Lemmy's one smart boah
*Ynnel
‘Catch Lenny in the Act’ -
The guy from motorhead ?
LENNEH
was
Lenny: He speaks very prettyly but doesn't say anything new
Just like Dutch lol
Deep inside Dutch knows he is like that.
well lenny was right even miller himeself admitt that
Evelyn Miller is a windbag.
“One more job...”
I hAvE a pLaN!
Dutch would got a heart attack if he saw the 21st Century.
@Sył Sesay It'd probably involve a train and money.
He’d probably take one look at it and kill himself
@@othelliusmaximus
It would probably involve a plane ;P
Sir JGN “I got a plane John.”
@@marsayde1237 THERE'S ALWAYS A GODDAMN PLANE!
When Dutch has to defend his position he almost becomes hostile
And therein lies his true character. He isn't looking for a genuine debate in which his thoughts and conclusions are tested. He wants people to nod their head and talk about how much of a great, wise leader he is. He wants his ego to be stroked.
He doesn’t want to be heard, just followed.
“Stay strong. Stay with me.”
“Who’s with me?!”
“Who’s against me?!”
“I Will find a plan”
I, I, I. Me, me, me. It’s always about Dutch and what he wants. He doesn’t care about differing opinions or even (philosophical) insights; he just doesn’t want to be challenged. Him constantly articulating how he reads and shit is also a projection of superiority among those that don’t avidly read.
Eredin Makitrz King Of Friendship When fucking Hosea died he lost it.
In fact remember when he got to Micah, he said to John “I’am here for the same reason as you.”
And our reason was to shoot him for Arthur.
Dutch went crazy but he still had a little bit of heart when Arthur died.
Eredin Makitrz King Of Friendship I mean technically he listened to Micah when he didn’t want to go to Colm.
Even though it was bs Micah at the time was still at our side and hell Micah even says sorry to you for getting you captured by Colm.
@Eredin Makitrz King Of Friendship both can be true: Micah saw Dutch as someone who could be manipulated by playing to his ego.
Look how Micah always, ALWAYS talks to Dutch: he's a suck-up.
Damn it's impressive how an 18 year old could debate against someone who was way older/experienced.What a waste of a man of his potential.Nice vid btw
Azriff Azli 19* not important, but yeah.
hes 19 actually but i get what you mean hes very smart in conversations but he died too fast
@@turtlemasteralpha119 lol sorry but yeah my point is that hes really young but has a knowledge of a scholar thats all and thx for correcting me
Lenny is actually 20. Its mentioned by Arthur in a robbery they do together. I think they rob a stage coach and lenny nearly dies
@No Siemka Siemka is it normal for a outlaw black man to be well educated in 1899
I hated that he died, He's one of my favourite gang members. Got upset enough I blew his killer to pieces even though it was just some no name npc that got him.
That was the first time I found out that if you fired enough rounds into an NPC's leg it becomes detached.
Didn't know that. I just used explosive rounds
You fire enough rounds into any limb, it'll come off. Shotguns do it easier though as they fire multiple pellets which all count as individual rounds for limb removal.
Same
Yeah Lenny was my favorite gang member to it kinda broke me when he died
Kinda happy that Lenny didn’t have to see what Dutch became.
I ain’t? Would have had Arthur’s back when he was needed
@@tomasgriffiths4249 Everyone who would have backed Arthur died. Lenny, Shaun, Mac probably (Arthur seemed to like him), Hosea, and even Javier if Hosea was still alive. Arthur should've picked Micah on that roof top dammit!
Kyrious sean wouldn’t and we can’t guess if Mac would i also doubt Javier and Hosea is on the fence he’d probably try to reason
Legendary Lettuce sean would because he says he doesn’t like Micah in the mission where you stop the train with the oil wagon
@@dsm5323 or the one where Sean Gets shot
3:29 slams book with absolute silence
he slammed it so hard you couldn't hear it
Man, that bit cracked me up. Dutch having a little tantrum because he can’t stand people dissing his boy Evelyn Miller.
"You are to harsh a critic"
3:29
More like 3:29😂
RDR 2 turned Dutch from a psychotic psycho to a bright man with a bad judge of character.
*and back to a psychotic psycho.*
@@QuackingDragon No, he realized it in the end. It was all over his face when Arthur died, the way he was looking at Micah. He realized right there, it did all make sense, everything started going wrong when Micah joined and he really was a rat. Dutch was gonna kill Micah himself, John just happened to deal with all of Micahs back up.
The gang started falling apart before Blackwater, because its revealed his gang only exists because of an old blood feud with O'Driscoll and what he did to Dutchs girl.
Sheriff Asshat so why did it Dutch kill Micah at the end of johns story? Would have saved John the extra hassle in RDR1
@@StopReadingMyNameOrElse The greatest wrinkle to that Dutch narrative is that Micah had Dutch/the gang's Blackwater money. The only way they got that was if Dutch showed him where it was. Whether Micah found Dutch or Dutch sought Micah out, it's clear that he had ulterior motives.
@@StopReadingMyNameOrElse I've been thinking the same thing! When Arthur's telling Dutch with his dying breaths that Micah's a rat, you can clearly see from Dutch's face, that he doesn't want to believe it, but finally does. And he's so disgusted by it all, that he can't do nothing else but just walk away, at least before the agents would get to them.
2:18 "No he speaks very prettily, but he doesn't say anything new. My pa used to think of intellectuals like him as the scourge of the American mind. Thinkers who spout pretty sayings without saying anything of great interest"
This whole segment is a metaphor for Dutch himself
More likely it is severe cognitive dissonance because there is so much propaganda in this video game that is being taught to gamers, after the game developers themselves were brainwashed by such false “intellectuals.”
Can you explain it in ur own words sir
@@ken_ny416 you really gonna reply on a four year old comment, how am I supposed to reply bro, can't remember shit on what this was about 😂have a great day sir
@@FanksCast sh1t😂
@@ken_ny416 love your name and pfc though! Kenny from telltale the walking dead is a legend. Screw jane 😂🙏
Nobody:
Dutch: *Oh yeah I've been reading Evelyn Miller agaaiinn, yeah I know im kinda obsessed lol dont judge me uwu*
I now curse you for putting the image in my head of Dutch going "uwu"
I imagined Dutch saying uwu and it was not pleasant
@@tonee2es223 I did while had voice cracks think I got tb know
Lmaoooo
Real shit
RDR2 made Dutch one of the great tragic characters in modern media.
Nope not even close.
An interesting character and one of the best in a mainstream game, sure, but not in all of media. Hell, I'd say Arthur is a more well-rounded character than him.
Some random guy on the internet He said tragic characters
@ITS bullzie the staying in bars depends on how you play
@ITS bullzie Don't forget he had a girlfriend and kid but they were killed by outlaws for ten bucks.
He slowly watched the family he had with Dutch's gang fall apart.
Yeah dutch is a tragic character. He has good and bad but the bad took over and destroyed everything he had spent his life building
"You're a great man Mr Dutch. But you ain't great because of Evelyn Miller." That is so touching and sad. Lenny thinks Dutch is a greater man than Dutch's own idol, BUT Lenny dies before he gets to see what Dutch becomes. But in a way; Dutch was tricked by Micah, BUT avenges Arthur & his fallen gang 8 years later by killing off the rat, meaning there was some good in him after all...
@Eredin Makitrz King Of Friendship i think it was a mixture of both. What i like to think is Micah brought out his inner beast, while Hosea brought out the good in him (at least before he died). Dutch was definitely a bad man, but not an evil one. Going insane is another reason why he changed/unleashed his inner beast. Micah encouraged Dutch's bad behavior & insanity to continue.
*before he saw the real dutch
@@husaammaawia3057 The Dutch we see at the end of the game that leaves Arthur to die is not the same Dutch that gave Sadie warmth & shelter after her husband died. But it was Dutch's choice to become dishonorable. He changed, but also revealed his inner bad side.
You either die a hero...
He killed Micah for his own ego not for anyone else although he'd Prob ably say otherwise
That moment when a random cutscene from a video game has better writing than the entire season 8 of GoT.
It's not even a cutscene though lmao it's a random throw away background conversation most people wouldn't even notice
Г\] /\ Г\] | even better lol
Or, I guess, all of game of thrones
@@TheB00tyWarrior GoT for the first 3-4 seasons was pure brilliance.
Yes there was nudity and yes there were fantasy elements,
but there was also amazing dialogue and plot.
Thats why people got so disappointed with how it ended.
If you dont like the first 3-4 seasons of GoT then you just dont like the genre of political fantasy shows,
because thats about as good as they get.
@@nikoskabbadias True
I’m sure that arthur kicked down heavens door screaming : LENNYYYYY
My heart warms at the idea of Isaac running into his legs, nearly knocking him over
Underrated comment 😂😂😂
HEHEHEHEHEE THERE YA ARE, LENNAY!
"hello there Arthur Morgan Welcome t-"
*Kick down door*
"HAHA FOUND YAH LENNYY!!!"
Then they get drunk all over again with the rest of the fallen gang members.
Members of the gang: *Had a private conversation*
Arthur: ʘ‿ʘ
Dutch thinks that Lenny's father's education makes him great, as Dutch would like to believe about himself. But Dutch uses his education to excuse his actions that are often in conflict with the interests of his fellow man. He does this to convince others, but also to convince himself. His frustration with Lenny is that Lenny's own arguments point out the falsehood of Dutch's life.
you are ornamentel, as his uncle would say
Lenny is 19 years old and his WISE beyond his years.
Yet, he gets killed like an idiot.
RandalfElVikingo lmao if only arthur said micah to come with him instead of Lenny
@@RandalfElVikingo how
@@subfrte6080 They asked him to scout the escape and he died not even one minute after that, just because he turned his back.
Yeah, aside from Hosea, I'd say Lenny was the smartest out of anyone in the gang. Which is why his death hit me so hard.
Wish Lenny was the protagonist of a game he’s very likable and full of wit
Arthur
Yeah uh no
Much would feel different if he was.... I like Lenny, he's one of my damn right favorite npcs.... But that's exactly how I like him. As a npc
(SPOILERS) Would’ve been cool if he survived and we got to play as him after Arthur dies
Fletchy why
The best part is in the epilogue, when you encounter Miller and realize even he didn't believe the shit he wrote in his books. If Lenny could break Dutch's heart with his dismissal of Miller as an author, one can only imagine how Dutch would react to Miller dissing himself. xD
It's almost like they're discussing anime.
they must watch rick and morty
Dutch and Lenny watch Evangelion and Ghost in the Shell and debate their themes.
Don't insult the western
It's almost like people overvalue anime.
@@deadchanneldontwatch7347 WHEEZE
Miller: A man who talks with ornamented words but doesn't really say anything.
Dutch: A man who talks with ornamented words but doesn't really say anything.
The foreshadowing in this game is amazing.
It's so damn worth it to play it again because of that.
Seasoned Player how do you know?
Arian Serrano I think it’s in the trash or just around camp but you see some newspaper clip of a speech and it’s the same one Dutch just gave
Jawmusic nice
@A Man Of Culture he inspired all his speechs
When Lenny takes jabs at Millers writing, you can tell it's actually foreshadowing Dutchs leadership, hence why Dutch acts like it's a personal attack, because it IS.
This game is fucking amazing.
I only recently noticed that every time Dutch is challenged and doesn't back down at first, he plays it off like its humor or tries to make a joke of it to show he isn't offended and that he encourages conversation - but we know from later chapters, deep down he hates being challenged and he'll side with anyone who fills his head with air as opposed to legitimately helping him by telling him he's wrong.
Damn Lenny said he was fake deep.
Fr
2:25
Of course Dutch is keeping the faith.
Edit: Thanks for the likes. I'm really feeling the faith my dudes.
Of course he is. He has a plan.
He just needs Lenny to stop doubting.
legend says that if you search dutch's pockets you'll find ...... FAITH !!!
Weird how Arthur comes up to any conversation that happens in the camp...
Doesn’t even add anything to the conversation, he just stands there awkwardly lol
@@gortimusprime2751 well...I best be getting back to it
"Its a bad business"
Lenny was right about Miller the whole time, he pretty much confirmed everything Lenny said in that one stranger quest
Lenny is a handsome young man with a handsome brain
Never lie
That was splattered all over the ground
I'm sad that they killed Lenny. He was a really cool character & he actually looked like someone that U could really talk to in case if U had a personal issue or whatever. I wish that they would've kept him alive through the whole game. He'd probably live a good life & maybe he'd find a wife & have two kids. Man, that'd be awesome for him.
I love how Dutch takes the book at 03:45 and reads it upside down. Very intellectual.
Nice catch
The irony is Dutch ended up being exactly like Evelyn Miller; a man of empty phrases
It’s these private conversations that show the real, insane, Dutch just bubbling under the surface and show him slowly rising to the top before the main story does
Sounds like a talk show
“On this episode of Intellectual talks with Dutch and Lenny, we discuss the events of the blackwater massacre and how every time you ride a carriage of TNT into camp the TNT disappears!”
“And those buffoons, and their clubs..”
*Points at Arthur*
It was probably more accidental, but yeah, he probably did kind of see Arthur as just a tiger with which he could unleash on his enemies.
That's a nod to Uncle Sam and Freemasons
I thoroughly enjoyed Dutch getting checkmated left and right at his own game. It's funny how Lenny doesn't speak so much about philosophy in the game, yet can throw down easily, and Dutch speaks of philosophy the entire time but can't go up against Lenny
It's because Dutch's philosophy is pure rhetoric - it doesn't come from a place of genuine thought or inspiration from within himself, it's borrowed from others - he's a man that feels he's great, but doesn't realize any greatness is only due to standing on the shoulders of the "great" philosophers he admires and repeating their talking points to an audience that is mostly ignorant of what he's speaking of anyway. As Lenny said, Miller doesn't present anything new, and Dutch presents even less - Lenny is just the only one who sees it because he's smarter then Dutch, thinks for himself, and is genuine.
Sad, I bet Lenny would’ve escaped the gang eventually and been successful as a lawyer or something
Lenny here spilling out Dutch's whole image while still stroking his ego enough to stay on his good side.
Worthy of note how the characters that begin to die off are less idealistic and more realistic, so that when Dutch doesn't have anyone realistic around anymore, his facade erodes away completely. It feels like he was so argumentative with Arthur because he knew that Arthur was right him losing his mind, and when pushed into a corner Dutch always lashes out to reset the balance.
Easy to lie to others when you lie to yourself. Doublethink: The tool of villains.
It's almost a year since the game came out and there's still things I haven't found or heard
Man, Dutch was so cool before, well, you know...
TOBLERONE TUBE now I want a game with the storyline before black water and that boat. The beginning of the game would be the making of the gang but maybe you play as davey or mac callander and the ending of this new game would be the start of the boat job in black water that killed Davey and Mac and just like in the second you switch to controlling John well in this one after Mac dies you control Arthur
hes my fav character, even after the betrayals, i just love his charisma, cant believe he trusted that filthy rat, well, he was hungry for the money later on
Token Lmao The game’s epilogue would have to be the boat, and it would be only hours or maybe a day or so before RDR2 actually starts. I don’t think they’d do it so close to RDR2, I think they’d do somewhere in the 1880s when the gang was in its prime.
A charismatic, respected, well spoken leader the gang would have died for.
Sad to see him unravel one poor decision after another with Micah feeding his paronoia.
I like how Lenny defused the argument by complementing Dutch and hating on Evelyn Miller at the same time
I agree, the way he panders to dutch's ego while still making his point clear is so intelligent.
I respect a person who's not afraid to disagree with their friends.
Dutch has that energy of a kid who just learned addition and so then goes around asking “what’s 2+2?”
They're both wearing the same shirt
Evelyn Miller was a minor character yet one with incredible importance. Its nice you can meet him later on and learn that he himself is his worst critic. I believe Miller meant well but like Lenny says it. He is the worst kind of fraud, the kind that doesnt realise he is a fraud.
these interactions actually show a great deal about dutch as a character before he snapped. In the first conversation, dutch wants to hear lenny's view (probably to spur on conversation), and his treatment of lenny is almost father-like. I say this because it seems that his disappointment on hearing that he didn't teach the ideas of what america is to lenny comes not from a place of bolstering his own ego, but in that he felt pride in himself for what he views as steering lenny in the right direction. At the same time, dutch doesn't belittle or admonish lenny's father, rather showing respect for the man. Finally, as he continues the conversation lenny and dutch agree on a common ground and both come across in the end as intelligent. the most interesting part is his final "that is a problem, isn't it?" as you can hear from his voice and seeing how he moves that he is angered at the state of america yet is able to maintain composure, a stark contrast to the man dutch would become
The second conversation is the most interesting to me. Dutch shows genuine interest in lenny and when lenny disagrees with dutch, dutch shows no anger or frustration but moreso confusion. dutch doesn't attempt to justify his position, actually seeming interested in what lenny has to say to him as opposed to wanting to espouse his worldview. While his mind is not changed by the end of the conversation, dutch does respect lenny's views and just makes it clear that he disagrees
In the final conversation, you can see that while he has an ego (he calms a little when lenny compliments him) it is not to the point of narcissism, or delusions (he acknowledges that lenny bested him in the conversation, and in the first conversation he admits that miller is his "weakness"); in fact his anger seems to stem from not from dutch's own ego but his belief in miller's ideas, and shows frustration rather than anger at lenny being "too harsh". Importantly, he displays respect for lenny throughout all 3 conversations, and seemingly goes out of his way to have these conversations in lenny showing he gets at least some enjoyment out of the philosophical verbal sparring only lenny (and perhaps hosea and uncle) can provide
Seeing Dutch after having beaten the game is honestly kind of nerve wracking. He always seems like he's one wrong sentence away from ripping your spine out. Even in what seems like a jovial conversation between him and Lenny I keep thinking, careful Lenny, you disagree with him too much he might go nuts. I think it's because Lenny's smart enough to keep up with him, and when Dutch is unable to pull the wool over your eyes... you become his enemy.
dutch's behaviour towards the end of the game can be explained as a stress response to the situation growing more and more dire, while displaying fear that his entire life's work will come crumbling down. dutch shows in these conversations that he fundamentally isn't like that at this point in the game, especially not when micah is around
When u replay the game literally every fucking line is foreshadowing something
I think Lenny deserves a DLC a pre sequel dlc
Yesssser
Seeing Dutch like this agian finally makes me understand what elders mean when they say the simple times
Dutch has that master manipulator trait in him; he's used to being a stand-in father for many of the gang's men, but upon remembering that Lenny had a good dad he changes tack and tries to speak magnanimously about a man he never met once, which to Lenny's credit he just of brushes off politely.
Quite ironic how Lenny calls him all this things and at the end of the game Miller agrees with all of them
Lenny was one of the best and most pure members of the gang. I miss him....
Dutch’s obsession and uncritical eye of Miller kind of proves his sophistry was a facade doesn’t it?
Just realized the gang that can duel wield
were the most important they were foreshadowing micah all along and his potential role soon
They all really have good chemistry with each other. God, what a good game.
3:33 That was so sweet of Lenny to say. I have no clue if Dutch understood that.
I absolutely love how easily Dutch’s aura of wisdom breaks down when someone able challenges him. He hadn’t a clue how to argue back.
I just realised; I thought Dutch's hand was clipping through the book, like the mo cap and the model wasnt lining up, but it was actually him keeping his finger in the book to keep his page. Rockstar just played me and flexed, Nice
I love love LOVE these conversations they have at camp. So much interesting and fun sometimes sad and tragic dialogue makes me so happy because of all the detail. Especially when these conversations continue on from where they last started.
So Dutch says that civilization is a club that they're out of, but they're "true americans" and everyone else is a traitor. Smells like "let's make our own club and keep everyone out". A nicely crafted lie to keep everyone together, likely because Dutch himself believed in it and realizing it was a lie helped break him.
Also
I love how Lenny is so much smarter than Dutch. Dutch doesn't have critical thinking. Lenny could have been an amazing lawyer or even more (time period aside). What a bright young man, he's grown to truly be one of my favorites. With simple, straightforward ideas, he crushes Dutch's "arguments" (which arent arguments, he's just quoting the book) to the ground. Because Dutch follows it blindly, he has no way to defend himself when someone points it out. I wonder if Lenny somehow helped him doubt his own grand plan and helped the cracks appear in Dutch's convictions. I like how Dutch always resorts to laughing to hide his hatred for those who don't believe him. I was half expecting him to make some passive aggressive threat like he did another time, but I guess Lenny would have caught it.
Why cant you buy rings on rdr online. Dutchs bling cant be missed they're big
you cant even buy fucking bandoliers i mena wtf
The amount of detail in this game still amazes me in my 2nd playthrough... Even Dutch keeping one fingee in the book, at the page where he left off.. How many games would do this on a minor scene that most players will miss anyway!
It’s funny that Micah is racist against Lenny even though Lenny is smarter than him.
Isn’t every racist stupid in a sense
Well yes. Most of the time racism occurs because of ignorance.
Atomic Bleach welcome to the real world
@@VivyTheHuntress ...which is exactly what stupidity is
It's not hard to be smarter than a racist. Poor Lenny deserved better than this. Shit you could say that about most of the members of the gang.
The funny thing about hidden dialogue there not actually hidden what I often see is that streamers and such are in such haste to finish a story they miss all the little bits
best part of this game were the conversations at camp. there's some real gold you can miss out on even after playing thru multiple times.
Lenny was extremely intillegent and life was taken away from him way too quickly
This just makes me smile. Good times. Great characters. Wished Lenny lasted even a chapter longer than he did. Sigh.
This is actually fucking unbelievably genius and genuine art.. most people will never experience these scenes, yet R* spent years working on tiny aspects that will never be seen or heard. Now that is unbelievable beautiful artist mastery.
Lenny's assessment of intellectuals is so accurate. A whole lot of jelly with no toast.
RDR2; one of the very few video games that can (similar to great literature and film) explore the true meaning of what it takes to be free. Not just physically, but spiritually as well.
Made me pretty sad seeing Arthur dance with Karen. The whole gang was a family, and everything went from bad to worse when Micah got involved. I’d honestly play a version of red dead where they all just live normal happy lives together in the camp
The mutual respect between these two does so much to explain their character. I love the subtle details in this game
These were the days :(
I could have lived at that camp like this forever
"HAH-HAAH! FOUND YA, LENNY!"
:') I love this game.
it's a conversation, not a debate, and "between" Dutch and Lenny, not "with". "with" would be an appropriate use if Arthur took part in it.
0:10 a continent
Dang, I had no idea Lenny was that smart! I mean, he’s obviously an intelligent guy, but I was not expecting this kinda philosophical debate or whatever. Kudos to him
3:32
“Look, you’re a great man Dutch, but you’re not great because of Evelan Miller”
Damn, that must have been the greatest compliment Dutch has ever received, and from a fellow thinker no less, instead of his simple minded follows.
And yet Dutch would see it as a bad thing because he takes anything not pertaining to the pandering of his intelligence and his idol as a direct insult. I loved Dutch, he was super charismatic and he even held some ideals that made him more than just a cold blooded killer. From some conversations I've gathered that the gang even helped some people in need, like Robin Hoods of the West pretty much. In this game they steal from the poor as well, with the whole money lending business. By the end of the game, Dutch became the man he told his gang to never be. That final chapter was heartbreaking. Guess they don't call it the Red Dead Depression for nothing :')
@@masterblaster2678 I don't think Dutch took it that way. His reaction, to me, seemed more like he genuinely just wasn't used to having a conversation with someone else on his level that wasn't Hosea. Maybe a tinge of anger, but more just confusion. And we know Dutch loved and respected Lenny, there's other conversations between them as well as what Dutch has to say about Lenny to the others, that give glimpse as to how much he enjoyed speaking to him. How much he enjoyed teaching in general, too.
Like I am 100% convinced that Dutch is more or less the sole reason Jack is so interested in legends and myths. Dutch regailing his surrogate grandson with the stories of old, fostering a genuine desire for reading and learning in the child. Also showcases why Dutch was so *utterly furious.* That's his grandbaby. One of the few members of the gang who he can share his love and enthusiasm for literature with.
2:04 dutch in nutshell smh
“Wel im keeping the faith”
Yes we know Dutch
Dutch: *I'm going to say the n word*
This really is the best game ever made. I genuinely think about if I die before I get to see another masterpiece like this made again.
I'm glad I saw this. It helps me appreciate Dutch a little more (Lenny as well of course). I generally really dislike Dutch, mostly because the gang have a lot of bonding with Dutch but you never get that as a player and thus the whole game has me on a sinking ship that I want to leave but don't because of some loyalty and respect I'm supposed to have for dutch.
At the end of the game sadie talks about how dutch changed but john says that dutch just showed who he always was. It's scenes like this that make me think it's a little of both.
Did you not go fishing with Dutch & Hosea? That bit, in retrospect, tore out my heart. The best showcase of the genuine bond that existed between the "curious couple" and their "unruly son".
In chapter four the mission where you rob the trolley station, Dutch talks about how much he appreciates Lenny, I just felt so warm hearing Dutch being so warm to Lenny
I love the “keep quiet Morgan… he’ll eat you alive” such a compliment to Lenny, Dutch clearly sees he can’t debate with Lenny😂❤️
One of my favorite characters from the game along with Charles
"A slave to pretty words and empty phrases"
Finally no racism
Also, LEEEEEENNYYYYYY!!!
There never has been racism in Rockstargames
@@ytn675 That's good to hear
@@ytn675 Herbert moon
theraiderz64 he’s an insignificant one off character
@@nxght6694 He was pretty significant
I wish we could’ve seen Dutch fan-girling about meeting Evelyn Miller at the party
Omg is that Lenny?
I'm looking for Lenny
This really makes me wish we got to see Lenny at the end of the game. I feel like Lenny would’ve been the perfect one to take over from Hosea, and might’ve actually guided Dutch through it all.
That's why he died
This is one of those "blink and you'll miss it" moments. It feels like just two well read men talking about books. What it's actually showcasing is the difference between a clever man and a man who plays at being clever.
"He writes very prettily but he doesn't say anything new."
What's actually happening here is foreshadowing both Lenny's fate and Dutch's true nature. Dutch doesn't want an intellectual debate, he wants affirmation and Lenny won't give it to him because Lenny is educated enough to see through his bullshit and point out the logical fallacies in his argument. Dutch becomes momentarily angry and defensive before flitting back to his characteristic almost Manson-esque charm.
Dutch Van Der Linde isn't an outlaw. He's a cult leader and anyone that challenges the dogma, or the idea of Dutch Van Der Linde is an enemy. There are also the racial overtones, he likes Lenny's intelligence...so long as it doesn't compete with his own. Dutch won't suffer a rival and that's what this demonstrates.
It's tragic as Lenny really was loyal to the gang even if he couldn't be loyal to the delusion.
I disagree that dutch doesn't want a debate, every one of these conversations he seems to start with lenny, if he didn't enjoy these discussions he wouldn't try to have them with lenny.
I like this because you can tell that Dutch genuinely cares what Lenny thinks, and is very upset that he doesn't agree with him.
You know racism was very rampant in those days. It's great that Dutch respects Lenny as a human being, and doesn't talk down to him.
Dutch is a psychopath, but he's no bigot.
@@julesmcgrules3860 Maybe it's because Dutch considers everyone beneath him, regardless of gender and race.
It has been 2 years, yet I am still finding new and interesting dialogue for the game.