My daughter works in hospice and she works with elderly patients close to death and she can now predict who is close to passing. They see loved ones sometimes pets in the corner of the room only they can see and say they have come for them. To help guide them to the other side.
My wife is also a hospice nurse. She sees the relatives of the person from the other side preparing for their loved one to cross over. And then... when they do cross... she has had them come and visit her and they will ask her to please come to their funeral. Which she does. I can't walk into a cemetery without someone coming and talking to her. No... they are not living in the Cemetery they know where their body is buried and kind keep a eye on it and they know who can see and talk to them and who can't.
@@MrNirom1 awesome!! I know that feeling!! I felt heard and saw many too! And some had senses of humor, In fact, in a polaroid someone too k at 230 am in an old old hospital of me at work, there's an orb in the top of the picture! It was nice and wonderful to be able to teach families in time to get into a spiritual natural mindset and acceptance ( not always easy or time for.) That's why I believe in euthanasia. The years and suffering and hoops people have to jump through is horrible! and I hate how mental hospitals and asylums prisons do Halloween things because so many of them suffered so horribly.
@@JEBBY123IFY As someone put it to me... the difference between time here and on the other side is totally different. I still have concept in my mind of the rock being dropped in the water. A woman who had an NDE asked her guide why do babies have to die. And the answer was... they don't have to be born. But once they are, like the ripples in water that child though it may not have even taken a breath has an effect on doctors, nurses, family members etc. It is another experience. And that is why I still think it is important to allow the person to die when it is their time. If you were able to capture the differences between euthanizing someone and the days after to when they would have naturally died... how many people lost the opportunity to give that person some sort of care? The patient might not ever know... but the people doing the caring will. I would hate to have them miss out on being taught more about being compassionate, caring, loving, etc. Not only with the patient... but with all that are involved with them. Humans serving Humans = LOVE.
One of Robert Lawrence Kuhn's best segments on the viability and validity that consciousness is perhaps a fundamental, separate part of brain function. Keep delivering these kinds of insightful, and enlightening segments Robert & team !
Wrong. He struggles for this ar haic 19th century materialism constantly and disingenuously. He lives in fear of ostracization. Your sly compliment belongs to the same class of intellectual disingenuity😅
We must also consider what people (NDErs) report during this experience. To me it’s an additional « proof » that consciousness is not produced by the brain and our identity still continues after body dies. Because the content of these experiences are very similar from one person to another , not like dreams or personal thoughts. They travel « somewhere », they meet beings, they see their body and then they see or feel loving light, they understand things about our reality and existence. These experiences are spiritual and very profound. They are life changing. I cannot understand how a dying brain could be « programmed » to deliver such experiences. Why? No there is something more
The most important thing is to understand the word "near" this actually mean not death. This means not death. So NDE say absolutely nothing at all about someone who is death.
@@Carlos-fl6ch i disagree. Moreover it doesn’t explain or change anything to the fact that a non active brain doesn’t mean consciousness stop. We just play with word. Let’s call NDEs « Temporary Death Experience ». If your TV is broken and does not work anymore, and if you repair it ; would you say your TV was not broken because now it works again ? No, your TV was actually broken but you were able to repair it.
@@popeck27 If you want to make a. Equivocation please make ine that works. If you want to compare near that with a broken tv you cannot. That is just a wrong comparison. I would compare a broken tv with sickness. In order to establish death people allover the world used lack of breathing or lacking a heartbeat. All though this is still common in scientific circles we now know that the braincells determine if one is death or not. Depending on de circumstances some time after people do not get blood to their braincells anymore they start to break down without any possible way to retrieve their normal activities. No one has ever come back from such a situation. There is one more important thing though. People with brain damage and certain conditions develop completely new characters. Moreover someone with a condition like where to two brain half's become separated from each other develop two completely different consciousnesses in the same person. How would you explain that. People have experienced when they're brain is not working normally and try to understand what is going on. It's just an interpretation of a brain trying to make sense if it all.
@@Carlos-fl6ch It’s just a comparison to support the idea behind. Of course it’s not really comparable. But if you want to dig into it, I would say it’s quite relevant since if you don’t do anything, the TV will never work again. In the case of sickness, we are still awake and conscious (I mean our current state of consciousness), so it’s more if your TV is working badly. But stop comparison if it’s not your cup of tea. 3:54 Sam is saying they are dead, no doubt about that… and they are brought back (TV fixed! Ok I stop). We are talking about flat EEG. Stop saying the brain is not working normally. The brain is NOT working anymore. See the case of Pamela Reynolds if you want. And finally you don’t answer the main question : why they are all living the same experience? Regarding your question, maybe there is a mistake and we should not say they have two consciousnesses but two personalities like with schizophrenia. Two egos. I think we have a personality (a character we incarnate) and a fundamental consciousness. Sometime, through intuition, meditation, psychedelics or other means we can access these different level of consciousness and get out of our character for a moment. Even possibly when we dream. The extreme case is NDEs since they are out of their body, so they disconnect completely. That is why they feel oneness for example. Vast topic. Hard to grasp in a comment…
Agreed. In my experience- it is almost impossible for most people to actually **hear** what is being said by NDErs due to deep conditioning, fear, and denial. I’ve stopped trying to talk about it with people.
I had a NDE nearly 30 years ago and remember laughing at the time because we know everything already we just forgot, no one can ever tell me it didn’t happen,humans just can’t get there heads around it
same happened to me 10 years ago.i died, god told me i only have to love and showed me that in fact i just forgot. lol. i also saw my niece 4 years before she was born!
@@nikthemonarch so it sounds like things were planned before we come here? I appreciate you sharing your story. I'm struggling to "keep the faith"(I don't mean that in a bad way or strictly from a Christian perspective). Hearing about things like this helps
@@Lea31706 wow! Thank you for responding. From what you experienced do you think these plans can change once we're here, or are the set and always going to go exactly as we planned them to?
I am not sure what continues to held us back from concluding that there is something after this life considering how logical what Sam is saying seems. I guess the fact that it is still a mystery but when you think about it logically, if consciousness continues after physical brain death, then why would it suddenly stop existing! I mean medically, there should be no experience once the brain is flattened, yet you have so many ppl some of which have even verified things they could not have known otherwise, it is quite fascinating to say the least.
100 percent. This doesn't have to have religious connotations either. I think the same stubborn reasons behind an atheist not believing in a god, are behind the religious who insist their god(s) are the god(s). I Like Parna's take. He is being as objective as possible and open to where the evidence follows and will follow. The questions of how and why we are here are as relevant and mysterious today as they were thousands of years ago. Each new thing we discover is just opening up more things that need to be discovered.
@Vlasko60 unicorns and fairies do not have any sort of evidence or arguments in its favor. This does. You just need to do more research or actually, this video in itself is good enough if you ask me.
@Vlasko60 I agree that there aren't what you would call emperical evidence but to say that it's the equivalent validity of a unicorn is silly. There are what you would call verified NDE accounts and many of them. To me, that supports the argument more but does it give it an emperical proof? No I agree it doesn't but since when in life do we dismiss something just cause there's no emperical proof of it? Often times, we try to speculate and connect the dots.
@Vlasko60 You do realize that almost always, in a court of law, to convict someone of a crime including murder, all you need is evidence beyond all reasonable doubt and not beyond all doubts.
His point about what we can "perceive" with our 5 senses is really important. I think many people make the human-centric assumption that everything in the universe generates human-detectable evidence, and therefore no evidence = non existence. It's very arrogant, actually.
@user-tz4pb6qz7k The science says you're wrong. Virtually all of the peer-reviewed research on NDEs have concluded that hallucinations cannot be the cause. They do not share the same characteristics. Dying brain cells don't generate hyper lucid experiences. They don't suddenly cause MORE lucidity when they're dying. The burden of proof is on you for such a wild claim. Also, someone posted your comment on the NDE subreddit and people have confirmed that the science says you're wrong. Go check it out for a more in-depth understanding on the science behind this topic.
@user-tz4pb6qz7k Also, someone posted your comment on the NDE subreddit and people have confirmed that the science says you're wrong. Go check it out for a more in-depth understanding on the science behind this topic.
When you're about to cross beyond the void veil... Reflect carefully. "Before I start, I must see my end. Destination known, my mind's journey now begins. Upon my chariot, heart and soul's fate revealed. In time, all points converge, hope's strength resteeled. But to earn final peace at the universe's endless refrain, we must see all in nothingness... before we start again." --Diamond Dragons (Armageddon's Ballad) 🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨
Physicalism is fascinating to observe. It fails to account comprehensively for the reality we observe, yet paradoxically it’s adherents hold to it with religious fervor reminiscent of fundamentalists. The same for scientism. The truth is that physical reality and the scientific method are part of the story of reality but clearly not all of it. One day we will realize that fact and learn vastly more about reality than we do now.
Since recorded history began, mothers have suddenly felt that their child is in danger or has died. Often they can distinguish between in danger and dead. That child could be outside or a thousand miles away, two years old or 32 years old. The mother is working, doing chores, sleeping or whatever, and the thought and feeling suddenly floods in that something has happened or is happening to their child. Across time, culture, religion, education level, or economic level, this phenomena has been occurring for millennia. To say that thought only resides within cells is really absurd and discounts thousands of years of experiences with the wave of a "scientific" hand. Scientists do not know what reality is. They only know what they observe in the data, and even that is vulnerable to subjective interpretation, or variables not identified or accounted for. My dad was a scientist who was at the top of his field of study. We would spend hours debating this topic. He passed last year. I wonder if his thoughts have changed. 8-)
I agree. There is a mountain of scientific research in Psi that is marginalized and ignored by hard-core materialists. But the research exists, has existed for the last century. And these people say they believe in the tenets of science, but only when it suits their biases. I usually limit my remarks to Near-Death studies because it is by far the most recent scientific research that screws with their Materialist fundamentalism more than when trying to bring up Psi research, which is also anathema for their religion of the magical particle.
You're saying science dismisses experiences at a wave of a hand, but its actually you who is the one doing that. Science is the search for explanation and understanding, i.e. the how and the why that lets us explain what happened and predict what will happen. You're not asking those questions. In fact your really just trying to defend the 'unknown' because that's the only shield preconceived religious/spiritual beliefs have. You don't know what reality is. You only know you want to believe something that might not be reality as as long as its stays unknown you can continue believing what you want.
Very cogent guest, Bob. Thanks! In addition, some experiencers of NDEs report knowledge that could not possibly have been resident in their brains beforehand. This needs much more study, IMO
Sam's work is both extensive and incredibly clear regarding his processes and beliefs. Highly recommend that any who read this comment look him up and consider as much as they can comprehend. 🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨
@@Novastar.SaberCombat Dr's have gotten upset when the dead tell them things they said and done outside of them being together in the same room. One NDE'r told of her story how she let the Dr know what he said when he was in the next room talking about her. The first thing he did was ask her "How do you know that?" Then he committed her to a mental hospital. Yea... they are all not as cooperative as many would like them to be.
Was just watching a NDE survivor with prior knowledge realizing with horror after that after the 1st plane struck the tower the 2nd one was still incoming. Not that this is 'hard proof' but it is certainly interesting and demands our attention.
I mentioned NDE's in a recent video. Thanks for bringing this up. I found his explanations clear, concise and unbiased. The idea of brain being an antenna for consciousness may be the case. It is always hard to make a prediction about unknown. Consciousness could be a program that is working and saved in a universal hard drive. It could be a small program that delivers our experiences to aliens or God like beings in their galaxies from our perspective and understanding of earth. It could simply be a simulation of our real world like in the movie matrix and every person and animal is connected to one being expanding it's consciousness with different senses, experiences, perspectives etc. Whatever it is, we will (or won't) learn after we die.
If reincarnation is real we have "died" and experienced the other side perhaps many times - and forgotten it, but not completely, since it can be recalled through regression hypnosis.
@@l.h.308 As far as I know hypnosis isn't very reliable. It doesn't work on me even if I want to but some people can see imaginary things by inculcation easily. Still, hypnosis is another interesting phenomenon that makes me think how consciousness works. It's like we are not who we are but we are whoever we believe are. It's surprisingly easy to shift someone's sense of self perception.
That was a great segment. First time I've heard new information on this subject in quite a while (meaning the reviving of people after hours of being clinically dead). Fascinating stuff.
I have heard of such reviving after hours in cases when people have been lying in ice-cold water after an accident, but that it can also happen when lying in a hospital bed is very interesting indeed!
I haven't had an NDE, but I've had an Out of Body Experience and it was no illusion. It was more real than my current waking reality. The mind/consciousness is most definitely non-local. There seems to be a separation between the matter part and consciousness. My experience taught me that brain does not produce consciousness.
You merely had a lucid dream. It was an illusion. You weren't really traveling anyplace spatially, you were merely visualizing something in your mind. How could you see unless you had eyes? Where were you when the experience ended, back in bed?
@@cosminvisan520 What's also in Consciousness is that if you have a disease of the eyes you go blind. And "seeing" something in a dream is not the same as seeing in real life, even if both happen in Consciousness. You can't make the world go away by saying it's all in your mind. You still have to deal with it.
@@cosminvisan520 I'm sure you think you've got some deep cosmic revelation but I'm aware of the various transcendental philosophies of Hindu-Buddhism about Consciousness being the essential nature of reality. The pitfall of that kind of thinking is that it can easily descend into solipsism, where you dismiss physical reality because it's only a thought, as if your ego controls Consciousness.
It means there's more to us than just a body and mind. And once that knowledge is known through experience and becomes common knowledge, everything changes for the better.
Philip K. Dick, the famous sci-fi author of Blade Runner, wrote a novel called Ubik, about NDE and described the fugue state of consciousness as Half-life. It's a fascinating story about a world where people's consciousness can be kept alive in half-life indefinitely and continue to communicate with the living. As is typical of his writing style Ubik also provokes a sense of paranoia and unease in the reader as well much along the lines of The Matrix. It's a very good story if anybody gets a chance to read it. Mr. Dick was a master of mind-bending fiction that always had an element of conspiracy and truth to it. Cheers!
Arguments for the out-of-body experience: NDE can occur when the brain is healthy and the person only fears imminent death; patients somehow report events in the hospital room or other rooms, the reports confirmed by others; NDE stories have interesting common features.
When you're about to cross beyond the void veil... Reflect carefully. "Before I start, I must see my end. Destination known, my mind's journey now begins. Upon my chariot, heart and soul's fate revealed. In time, all points converge, hope's strength resteeled. But to earn final peace at the universe's endless refrain, we must see all in nothingness... before we start again." --Diamond Dragons (Armageddon's Ballad) 🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨
I remember the day I got the phone call from my wife that my nephew had hung himself at work. She said that he was still alive, but on life support at the hospital. I already knew that he had left.
Extraordinary discussion 👌👍 In the end, he said that the consciousness continued after brain has flat-lined. In my opinion, it means that the present equipment, which we have is showing flat line, is not sophisticated enough to detect the subtle activity. I am sure that science will acquire that sophistication sooner than later.
I've had NDE's & OBE's & the thing I noticed immediately is that time is an illusion, but when I came back, and asked about how long things were happening, I couldn't believe how quick time is, though it doesn't seem that way, but once time collapses, you feel like things take an eternity, in the living time realm! There were times, I didn't even understand what was happening to me, or why it was when I'd run up to people, screaming at them, to help me, and they would ignore me, but I later realized it's because they couldn't hear me because I was in my spirit! All I can say is that our consciousness exists outside of the body, and when inside of the body our consciousness is of this realm, but outside the body, you are outside of time space! These experiences, I will never forget! It's also sad that when you come back, you really have to act like nothing happened, or be very selective about who you tell, because most people will not believe you, and it will just make you feel more isolated, so I'm glad we live in a time when people no longer have to deny what happened to them! Also, your spiritual senses are very different than the physical ones! So when they say the dead know nothing, that isn't exactly true! 🥰✨
I died 2 months ago. I too noticed that time didn't exist. How I saw and heard things were different as my eyes and ears were on my body yet I was "told" I can't be here yet, it's not my time. My body came back when my soul was sent back.
When Friedrich Wohler synthesized urea in his lab in 1828, science declared that life was just chemistry, and it was just a matter of working out the details. Almost 200 years of sciencing later and while incredible details have been worked out, life stubbornly refuses to go along with the program. Consciousness is a feature of life, so if you deny that life is a mystery, then the mystery just moves up one level to consciousness.
@@chrisgarret3285 Using your own logic, wasn't it a little premature to declare life to be "just chemistry" in 1828? The only reason they were so adamant back in the day was to fight off Vitalism and other mystic ideas like souls. Isn't it time to throw off the overcompensation of the 19th century?
@@cosminvisan520 It's mysticists like you that prevent real scientists from being able to admit that while life is a physical process, it is totally unknown how it works. Even you should understand that evolution is not limited to "known" or even understandable effects. Photosynthesis existed long before anyone had any idea that light could be used as a power source to synthesize organic molecules.
@@cosminvisan520 See what I mean? You invoke mysticism for everything, but never make any effort to explain your wonky pronouncements. I'm sure I'm not the only one who is a little tired of being told such trivial and mundane "facts" that are just some made-up metaphysical nonsense. I'm beginning to think that you don't even understand the doctrine you so fervently promote, and I have no desire to go find out what it is you think you understand, but I'm pretty sure there is no competent authority out there who would say that molecules or brains don't exist.
The conversation stops abruptly at the most interesting point. I am longing to hear Sam Parnia talk about what people are conscious of during the NDE. Not the mystical experiences about which we hear a lot. But is it true that they accurately report seeing and hearing things that really happened while their senses were totally incapable of receiving external signals? For me that would be a deciding factor for the existence of conciousness independent of the body.
There is quite a bit of literature on the topic and fascinating to read. What I find interesting is how closely the NDE phenomena adheres to the Dr. Bruce Greyson NDE scale, yet is quite varied from person to person, regardless of their previous religious outlook, age, education or cultural background.
You could try "astral projection". Its real, but it requires a lot concentration, probably its necessary a lot of meditation. These kind of experiences are necessary to understand that we are not only the physical body... But, I think you wont believe me... :D
@@cosminvisan520 you seem to be assuming a lot about me ( sitting on a couch watching TV etc.). I am aware of Sam Parnia's big project "AWARE" whose reports came out in 2015 and 2022. I wanted to hear the results from his own mouth , which is why we watch interviews. Especially the results of accurate visual awareness during NDE because that seems to be a clinching point for consciousness independent of body.
Yes, one of the most critical questions coming out of NDE research. How is this possible? Although, it does coincide with other known Psi phenomena that has been scientifically investigated in the past (such as Remote Viewing).
There are many, many wavelengths that go beyond what human technologies can measure or detect. When you're about to cross beyond the void veil... Reflect carefully. "Before I start, I must see my end. Destination known, my mind's journey now begins. Upon my chariot, heart and soul's fate revealed. In time, all points converge, hope's strength resteeled. But to earn final peace at the universe's endless refrain, we must see all in nothingness... before we start again." --Diamond Dragons (Armageddon's Ballad) 🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨
It is good to see science is catching up with what spiritual lecturers,etc.... have said for many years now. They put science terms for a topic which I think is above science. Whatever observation they make will never deliver what they expect to find as the ultimate reality is not observable by the brain. The brain only an interpreters and affects big time the the thing observed,
Modern research on Near Death Experience by Raymond moody, reincarnation memories by Ian Stevenson/Jim trucker and past lives regression by Brian Weiss all independently but coincidentally show that our consciousness survive death, we live many lives and our thoughts and actions matter in the hereafter. So be kind and helpful to others, be virtuous, meditate and cultivate ourselves to higher spiritual levels. Cheers.
A little better, but you are still not considering all the evidence. How does a person lying dead on the operating table know what is taking place in a different part of the hospital? How does a person currently alive know about intimate personal experiences from a previous life? (re-incarnation) Consciousness is clearly non physical and non local and cannot be explained n purely physical terms.
Buddha said “This body must lose three things before it lies forsaken, tossed aside like an insentient log: vitality, warmth, and consciousness.” (MN 43)
Word it anyway you want but unless you have had these experiences, all you can do is go in circles. ✌🏽Nothing can truly explain it in human language. It is too far removed.
The continuation of life is real indeed....Let Love and Light flow from Jesus freely through us all today...Filling us with Joy, and overflowing into others lives!
Makes me question why our conscious is with us at all and why we are not super intelligent. I've had a lot of experience with spirits as a nurse in old psyche hospitals and anyplace people died so I know it's all around us but I don't know why we had to be here in this incredibly hard life when we could have been happier? More of a help? And then where we go from here and if we have any control over that?
@@OrthodoxJoker yes the thinking we're here to learn and hopefully get to the self actualized place where love compassion forgiveness and no material possession or all the worldy hate and chaos is the point of getting closer to God. Suffering does bring humility! Then to teach that also is rewarding. I've had a lifetime of child abuse and then marrying alcoholics abuser, but had children and changed my path to learn to not repeat as much bad, and became a Nurse. I was always more of a memories person than material but now I am sick and suffer so much I'm ready to go! Not allowed in this culture but there is always more suffering to adjust to. I try to help people online and I want to know everything I can about where I'm going and if I've done enough or if I have the right to choose when I am ready to go. I think it should be a personal choice and accepted but it isn't here and so people hide it and miss out on dying with dignity. I mostly want to be assured I won't be punished for not co ti ui g to suffer and lose all function and independence and rot in some nursing home. We don't have enough good choices or medications and society and people leave. I enjoyed doing hospice nursing and de criminalizing death for people.
@@JEBBY123IFY thank you for sharing your story. I’m sorry your life is hard. I am relatively lucky compared to you but it does make me wonder why some people have it worse of than others. You can get through this and hopefully there is something great beyond.
@@OrthodoxJoker thank you. I'm glad to be able to talk to people and watch these videos. Nice to hear everyones perspective. Pain sucks! It just steals your life away. But I know there's always worse. I just hope I did enough good. You can't get away from regret and hindsight for mistakes but that's life! Love and compassion and empathy kindness forgiveness are the lessons! Our world has been in such chaos people are so divided and scared. But death is part of life. Praying for love and light for everyone!
Fantastic discussion and what an awesome guest speaker.. I suspect some day we may learn that the physical brain is the machine/mechanism that carries and maintains the mind (consciousness) and that their design (and possibly some latent things we don't know about yet) are our DNA/Native... the three things that define and together construct a human that is from the Animal Kingdom, yet more than that. We carry more of our ancestors, possibly, than is realized. Not sure why, and it has been a long time since I read this book, but this discussion reminds me of "Duex Ex Machina"... Will have to review the book to see if it relates of I have a misfiring neuron, which is quite possible. Also, from the great and awesome movie "Princess Bride" is someone dead, or just mostly dead?
@@mark.J6708 Yes I read the Foundation series several times as a teenager. And I've read all the Dune books. And was a huge Star Trek fan as a kid and all throughout my life. Went to a number of conventions, met Leonard Nimoy. But what's odd, is Roddenberry allowed the Vulcans to be telepathic - which is not allowed in the reductive materialist universe - since it breaks locality of the brain (among other things). But why I like Dune - it precursors and imagines the evolution of consciousness, but also as a warning - although the later books seemed to have a kind of hope as well.
Dante, just a short reply as am making coffee... read through these as a kid as well, was not a Trekkie, but did once play paint all against Shatner... my son and I were on the Borg team as I did not want to be on the Federation nor Klingon team. Don't know Star Trek, Klingons were telepathic, that seems odd, but I do not know the Trek world. I remember thinking the few original shows I watched had no plants on the ships and only Spok had beyond normal abilities. Did watch a bio show on Leonard Nemoy produced by his son I think, fascinating and gifted man.
@@jamenta2 did you balance your sci-fi reading with the classics.. Russian writers as well? History, military, justt humorous or for pure entertainment....etc... eating through bookstore i always enjoyed alternating one after the other to balance perspectives and give the mind time to process one after the other... read about continuously and run amuck in the woods, amongst all the other life bizzyness, martial arts for balance, sports for fun for burning of energy and learning teamwork... different therorie of faiths... grateful for the way I was raised, tried the same with my kids... fun stuff to look back to and remember the purposes of things.
I'm absolutely befuddled every time I hear apparently smart people still confusing things like thoughts with consciousness, or as I prefer "awareness."
I was blessed to have an NDE, Near Death Experience, at age 22. It was amazing and wonderful....AND I DID NOT WANT TO RETURN TO MY BODY. I look forward to death now, and I'm certainly not afraid of it!
Thoughts are like gravity. The more mass there is, the more gravity affects it. The more (undamaged) brain cells we have, the more capable the brain is. I think when certain amount of things accumulate in massive quantities, other things arise. Another example is the electron. In big enough quantities and flowing through a cable, we get our beloved electricity.
We find in nature all sorts of transmissive qualities - when light enters water, when electricity conducts through a wire, when energy heats a pot of coffee. It is not extreme to suppose the brain might be a conduit for consciousness and not actually produce thoughts or feelings. Currently, there really is not scientific evidence that demonstrates how any combination of electricity or chemicals can create a single thought or emotion. None. Zip. Science cannot even create life - and many scientists have tried to produce life in a laboratory and have not even come close.
@@Bassotronics I don't know. It sure does seem to act like it has rules right? I mean, we have all these "laws of physics" - where did they come from? Our universe itself seems extremely well tuned for life as we know it to exist. And why is there even a reality at all? I mean, it seems like nothing should exist at all come to think of it - why indeed is there even existence? But given we do have existence, and it follows some very clear rules - it does seem to imply that other "existences" might also be possible - other simulations as well - the Everett Multi-Worlders certainly will argue such is the case. So if there is more than one universe - each one is a kind of "simulation" with difference laws of physics, different experiences etc.
@@Bassotronics life's origin is either a creation with a specific purpose or an emerging proces that might not have a purpose at all... back to Robert's question "why something"...
I wonder if the brain is somehow just the receiver for consciousness like a radio eg. An outside source of some kind. Fascinating subject that will continue to intrigue for generation’s to come. 🙏🙏
@@cosminvisan520 Being conscious is a process. This is a self evident fact. Processes are abstract entities. Abstract entities have no location, outside or inside. Consequently 'brains' cannot be inside.
@@Dion_Mustard I had a dream in which I was flying upright and naked over my street a hundred feet below me. I know I can fly because I've experienced it first hand. 😂
@@chrisgarret3285 "wishful thinking" from a materialist who has yet to scientifically prove thoughts are produced by electro-chemical reactions in the brain. Keep trying - you might find it some day right? Talk about ... wishful thinking!
@@jamenta2 that kinda thinking probably has you probably thinking that deja vu is some kind of a supernatural event too doesn't it? I mean, we haven't' explained it yet so it must be magical, right?
@@jamenta2 no, just means we don't understand it. I'm sure an iphone would be pure magic to someone in the year 1500, are you saying iphones are magical?
Yes I totally agree. I think its because many physiscists are desperate to hang on to old models of reality. They are scared by this and cant accept it. 😂
Humanity dislikes new data that destroys or negates the purpose or validity of the old. It's evident in almost everything mankind is all about. If a person has believed "X" for 30+ years, not even new evidence to the contrary will reverse nor change such s¥cophaπti¢, self-fulfilling mantras.
If flight animals act instinctively then animals with flight or flight must have some sense of self awareness to determine which option is best under prevailing circumstances. Is self awareness the starting point for consciousness?
The First Law of Thermodynamics states that energy cannot be created or destroyed; it can only be converted from one form to another. How does this relate to human beings and all living things? Are living things energy in a sense? What happens to that energy when the flesh and bone experiences death? Where does that energy go?
There are many examples showing that the memory is part of the brain and not part of the consciousness. You can still be conscious, but with wiped-out memories. Now, NDE is based on memories of a patient?! But how dead brain can collect memories?
there are cases when brain is destroed by alzheimer or dementia or cancer. People are nearly braindead, but hours before day their memories return, they are still conscious and their brains are working better than ever. Then they die. That is really mysterious isn't it?
Like a computer, the CPU and GPU do *not* store information about what they're processing. They only interpret it. The important data is stored elsewhere. However, it seems fairly clear that transporting that data ("memories") beyond the void veil is inhibited or prohibited. Thus, from my perspective... when YOU are about to cross beyond the void veil... Reflect carefully! 🔍 "Before I start, I must see my end. Destination known, my mind's journey now begins. Upon my chariot, heart and soul's fate revealed. In time, all points converge, hope's strength resteeled. But to earn final peace at the universe's endless refrain, we must see all in nothingness... before we start again." --Diamond Dragons (Armageddon's Ballad) 🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨
That was an important episode! But are there any reasonable hypotheses of what physical processes outside the brain could produce consciousness? I don’t think there s even a wild guess.
Gruesome Pseudoscience! Good Science of Penrose-Hameroff will prove that what happens in that "NDE"s is in fact "Quantum Underground" effect similar to Psychodelics that are proven in Penrose and Hameroffs model clear opposite of Anesthesia! Therefore Dualism is rubbish! And trying to resurrect people with dying brains is immoral! Apparently when I will be old man I will have to go everywhere with small Bomb attached to my head with detonator activated by Flat EKG! Sad Times! And Parnias Dualistic pseudoscientific interpretation is really shameful! Read Stanisław Lems "Star Diaries" and "Futurological Congress", and "Wizja lokalna"(Vision at a Crime scene?) if you don't understand!
@@georgegrubbs2966 Depends what do you mean by "external to brain" if you mean "soul" of course it's the non-scientific belief purely thing that physics cannot give you and which I therefore reject. But external to brain could be satisfied by Bohmian Mechanics or some form of Panpsychism Counsciousness then is just a property of the Universe
@@jimmyjasi-anti-descartes7088 I get your point. Even with wave functions and fields, I claim that "consciousness" is a word to mean a set of capabilities and properties displayed by "things" - usually living things, and here we speak of human beings. To be conscious, a human must be awake, alert (thinking and feeling), aware (of surroundings and self), and experience a "subjective life" (qualia). That is consciousness as defined. What causes consciousness as defined? I claim that when the brain "boots up" from the brain stem (reticular activating system and other brain stem structures) and sends information via nerve impulses (neurons firing) to all areas of the brain, then sensory, motor, and all nervous systems (central, peripheral, autonomic, etc.) become fully functional and the human exhibits properties that is defined as being "conscious." At the atomic and subatomic levels, wave functions and fields play their parts that motivate (energize, innervate) brain cells to action. I no not give any credence to panpsychism.
It's interesting that many NDEers report that they felt their consiousness, upon leaving the body, swoosh out of the top of their head. And some say entered back in through the head too.
Think of the brain like the CPU of a computer. The CPU doesn't contain the information on the SSD nor HDD, though; it only processes it. 🙂 Same for a GPU vs. the information which is sent to be *interpreted* by it. Thus... when you're about to cross beyond the void veil... Reflect carefully. "Before I start, I must see my end. Destination known, my mind's journey now begins. Upon my chariot, heart and soul's fate revealed. In time, all points converge, hope's strength resteeled. But to earn final peace at the universe's endless refrain, we must see all in nothingness... before we start again." --Diamond Dragons (Armageddon's Ballad) 🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨
If all we know is through consciousness we can say that things are made of consciousness like a in a dream. Therefore there can never be anything other that consciousness. Does that makes sense ?
All questions will be answered when we leave this body. I was lifted from this shell and learned this. All my questions and then questions that were not derived from my life experience were answered but that's all I recall. Not one answer did I bring back to this shell except that the answers are beyond. "one step beyond". I don't tell many people of this experience because like my son they would say I was hallucinating and that I'm delusional.
You're not delusional. Just as Parnia noted, electromagnetic waves cannot be seen nor heard... but they certainly exist. Black holes cannot be seen either, but we detect them via gravitational lensing. Thus, just because a person can't see something doesn't mean it isn't there. And beyond that, "flatlining" is limited to crude methods of detection. There are wavelengths which cannot be recognized by such digital gear. Sooo... when you're about to cross beyond the void veil... Reflect carefully. 💪😎✌️ "Before I start, I must see my end. Destination known, my mind's journey now begins. Upon my chariot, heart and soul's fate revealed. In time, all points converge, hope's strength resteeled. But to earn final peace at the universe's endless refrain, we must see all in nothingness... before we start again." --Diamond Dragons (Armageddon's Ballad) 🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨
Yet there is more to NDE’s than simply returning to life it’s the ability to apparently remain an observer to this reality from beyond the body , whether it is within its surroundings or much further even miles away , the ability to return and confirm events during this ‘temporary death’. to requires explanation !
I agree. That part of NDE's is often ignored completely by reductive materialists. But there is plenty of corroborated testimony by not just one person that confirms this can also be a feature of a Near-Death experience.
@@chrisgarret3285 yes just as the UFO phenomenon ….. I haven’t had a NDE but I most certainly viewed UFO’s twice in my life or should I call them UAP’s . Clearly humanity is far from understanding reality !
Flatline EEG does not tell you about whole brain activity. Could it be that a self-protective brain mechanism is activated near-death that gives rise to NDEs? The combination of sophisticated brain imaging and subjective descriptions of NDEs in individuals suffering cardiac arrest may begin to answer the question of whether transcendent experiences emerge from a threatened brain or provide a window into a consciousness that is immaterial and uses the living brain as a transducer.
When practicing Transcendental Meditation as a teenager….(Trained by people from Maharishi Mahesh Yogi’s facility flown to Vermont to train us all) I could experience many of the same expressions of Near Death Experience…on demand, or nearly so; Out Of Body. Sense of Levitation. Remote Viewing of others in other rooms. Traveling out of the house to the fields and through woods. Traveling off planet. I’ve always assumed it was the result of being at Burke Mt. Academy with US Olympic Ski Team Coaches…being trained to an extremely high level of fitness. A Resting Heart Rate of 45 BPM makes for a very much lowered oxygenation rate. I’m guessing that a sustained, artificially induced state of anoxia would allow a person to experience the concurrent state of “wellbeing + biofeedback” within a Mind having been trained to be “empty of conscious thought” …subsequently acting to be a subconscious canvas for our deepest, unrealized thoughts and emotions. It seemed SO real. I was always awake, not injured….just simply doing one of my two daily TM Sessions. It started after my first week or so of practicing TM. It wasn’t every time and I couldn’t “make it happen”….but I could see myself-out of body, from above and behind myself looking down. I could see other people waking up ..sitting up in their beds to start their days…and TM Sessions. No sense of having a body...just traveling. The only time it occurred to me was being in space and flying past a planet. You’re not supposed to be “thinking” about anything when doing Transcendental Meditation…only your Mantra as it repeats in the background of your mind. It’s supposed to allow unrealized thoughts to arise from the Subconscious to the Conscience Mind..and not dwelt upon. As soon as you realize something occurred to you…you let it go and return to your Mantra. But…it’s not everyday you suddenly find yourself seeing one of your teammates rubbing her eyes in her pajamas as she starts her day and grabs for glasses..or the guys in the adjoining room..or…fly out into woods …off planet. In other words, it’s SO amazing that you have no choice but to go along for the ride…which isn’t the point of your TM Session..but impossible to resist.
@@malna-malna no…and yes. I did see “Fish” in her yellow pajama’s that morning about 20 minutes later…(her room was the mirror image of my room on the second floor of The Woods House) and/but I kept the experiences to myself the same way one doesn’t ever verbalize their Mantra out loud or ever tell anyone what it is. I never had the opportunity to speak to Instructors about it or get a TM-Check Up (like you’re supposed to do). I just always assumed it was my mind making up its own Movie Reel of free association. I’m always looking for a rational answer to what may seem inexplicable to others. So many of us are wired that way. I don’t see anything magical or metaphysical about the psychological-Chemical….emotional feedback mechanisms and blindspots of human consciousness and comprehension. In other words…if one thinks there’s an otherworldly reason for these perceptions…..they’re wrong.
@@richardlipshay6407 Thank you for your reply. I admit I'm a little confused. So you were able to see that "Fish" in OOBE state which I assume you had not seen before. That would mean some form of extra sensory perceptions. To me that's kinda 'otherworldly' in itself. But I don't want to bother you more with it, I'm grateful that you took your time to explain in more detail. This topic is personally very important to me.
@@malna-malna it’s always held a special fascination for me for all these years. The context for “not being otherworldly”…being…none the nature of what causes these experiences are externally imbued… While the mental imagery of traveling a few feet through the wall to my back to see Diane Poisson (Poisson = “Fish” in French) in her room sitting up ..Pete and “Cracker” (Steve Graham) in their room. Feeling like I was levitating off the bed. Sometimes, traveling straight away up through the atmosphere and being being off planet…seeing other planetary bodies in space with their own colors and hues of atmosphere… but always as I’m flying past…sometimes simply leaving the building to travel across our field and into the woods on the running trails…or obstacle courses. I had the full range of experiences and in the beginning I’d ruin my Meditation period by being SO SURE I was floating 4 to 6 inches off the bed because I couldn’t feel anything and I felt like I was slightly higher than usual relative to other objects in the room….then my hands would fly down to the bed beneath me and sure enough…right where physics dictate.
I agree with you. Sad? Of course life is sad. So brief. We start as babies and so often we end as babies. There´s nothing before life and nothing after. We exist for 80-odd years, out of all eternity. Blink and you´ll miss us. Blink again and the Earth has gone too. Just a few more blinks and the Uni´s gone. What purpose could there be in life? There can be no ultimate purpose, irrespective of whether you believe in a Creator. Time for a drink. Better ... three or four drinks!
Given the scientific accumulation of Near-Death studies, and also the last century of research into psi phenomena, including the remarkable work of scholars like Frederic Myers or Karlis Osis - I feel the opposite. I think there is a good chance that consciousness is something fundamental to reality and the nihilism that has become supposedly the intellectual de rigueur of our time is likely an erroneous, unproven assumption. I've read quite a bit on the subject - have quite a few bookshelves. Everything I've read makes me lean toward not believing in the nihilist fantasy.
@@chrisgarret3285 I think about it in bed. Just how - and why - did the Uni come to exist? Once, there was nothing. No matter nor energy. No space, no time. No laws. Absolute and total NOTHING! Then, suddenly there was SOMETHING! How did that happen? Almost enough to believe in a Creator. Were it not for the problem of where did the Creator come from?
Seperated from my body while I was sleeping. I saw my body and little daughter sleeping. Some power pullinv me from my back fast and I was afraid immensely. Then while going away from my body I closed my eyes and started praying. All of a sudden I opened my eyes in my earthly body. So did I pass away and come back to life while sleeping or are just these experiences called NDEs trick of fearful brain?
Lord Krishna says our existence consist of 3 levels 1.Gross body 2.Subtle body i.e mind , intellect and ego 3.Soul. Now conciousness emarges from soul and mind is the interface between outer world and soul.
Gruesome Pseudoscience! Good Science of Penrose-Hameroff will prove that what happens in that "NDE"s is in fact "Quantum Underground" effect similar to Psychodelics that are proven in Penrose and Hameroffs model clear opposite of Anesthesia! Therefore Dualism is rubbish! And trying to resurrect people with dying brains is immoral! Apparently when I will be old man I will have to go everywhere with small Bomb attached to my head with detonator activated by Flat EKG! Sad Times! And Parnias Dualistic pseudoscientific interpretation is really shameful! Read Stanisław Lems "Star Diaries" and "Futurological Congress", and "Wizja lokalna"(Vision at a Crime scene?) if you don't understand!
After feeding the scientists " we are material objects " theory , we are nothing but material objects , no free will it's just illusion it's because of neural firings then when we think oh very good child rapist are not responsible for their deeds afterall he is a material thing, oh we should not give respect to freedom fighters why do we ? , afterall this is because of neural firings , now your brain turns into curry then you will come to eat curry in ISKCON temple.
@@chayanbosu3293 You mix Hinduism with Christian philosophy. That's why you get nonsense. Actually I believe in the Roger Penrose Orchestrated Objective Reduction, but there's no point in arguing for neither soul nor Free Will in that model. 1 As far as I understand Hinduism rejects "immortal soul" and instead believes that we all are One Counsciousness of Shiva under different manifestations... I like it. But be consequent... Self cannot survive bodily death. Your Counsciosness doesn't disappear after death in the sense that Universe doesn't disappear after your death and we all are part of Shiva (perhaps CCC Cosmology is correct this would indicate). But after death memories, personal Counsciosness so on Certainly cease to exist! 2 Free Will doesn't exist not because of Counsciosness being "Epiphenomenal neurons firings" as there's a proof that where Counsciosness is in homo sapiens and all the other sentient animals there are deviations from Hogdkin-Huxley that almost certainly are regulated by Microtubules activity. The reason why Free Will is an illusion is that Quantum jumps are truly random and no one can control them you included even if they happen in your brain. 3 Everything is Non-locally interconnected in QM so everything influences everything. So no one can possibly have a "Free Will" as a separate being!
Over the last few years, I've noticed organized religion initially dismissing near death experiences, to embracing it, once they were able to control the narrative
The new series on utube called; the Ghost Inside my Child.Actual testimonials from children in the west remembering their past lives,clearly indicates that a separate consciousness exists outside the body.
For sure. The real stickler though is, as Ann Rice once pointed out, if death really does extinguish our consciousness forever (and I'm not yet convinced it does) but IF it does - then we won't even know the answer to the "plot twist". We'll die and that will be that.
@@jamenta2 Exactly. I'm not sure either, but I think that's part of the experience. I do think it's awfully coincidental that people have these profound experiences just as they are nearing death, but ultimately we will have to wait and see - reality is the way it is. One thing I know is that this life is beautiful. Good day
@@alexanderthaler3584 Yes there is much beauty to life, but also quite a bit of sadness and suffering. What is happening in Ukraine right now is especially sickening (I'm not taking sides here just pointing out that this is happening.) And yes, we might find out and we might not. But in the meantime what shall we do? Live in despair? Believe there is no future but it all leads to a dead end forever? I've chosen to live my life assuming that it is going somewhere. I guess you might call it a sort of "faith". Although I belong to no religious denomination - but I understand what it means to have some kind of faith.
@@alexanderthaler3584 people have profound experiences when marathon running, when taking psychedelics, when boxing, when in church, when being with the ones we love, when pandering the mystery of the universe and on and on. What can be said without any doubt is "people have profound experiences". Nothing more nothing less. None of that proves anything about anything.
@@jamenta2 ok, at least you understand that you're making yourself believe something for which there is no evidence for. If you disagree with that sentence, re-read your comment.
No, Dr. Parnia explains in his book Erasing Death that the NDE happens after the patient has been pronounced clinically dead (cardiac arrest and no brain activity). The patients are often aware of things happening in the OR after the death pronouncement that they could not possibly know unless the consciousness continues. He says that the term near death experience is a misnomer because the person is in fact clinically dead, and he maintains that it should be called an actual death experience. He also points out that there is no clinical evidence whatsoever to the oft repeated assertion that in the final throes of death neurons are firing and creating dreamlike experiences.
Consciousness is energy its the energy field within the body.. I think if doctors use a machine that can show the energy field within the body they will see it leave when the body dies but come back if brought back to life. That field is who and what we are
I mean if you are flat-lined and you experience consciousness, in fact straight experiences like you "go" and see your parents in a totally different city. Then you come back and ask your parents "did you do this XY thing, because i saw you with my soul or whatever". And they approve it... then there is only one explanation to these stories. 1. It's a made up story. 2. Proof that we are more than this. Now as we have more and more stories, how long is it rational to say that these stories are lies? In my country alone there are some very compelling NDEs that you probably never heard of. These things are happening all the time, everywhere and life just goes on like we still don't know the answer to our life.
It could be anything from signs of an afterlife to your brain simply firing out flares of thoughts before it dies forever. I'm not sure which is true. I'd like the 1st option to be true, but I just don't know.
Just think about what an actual forever life after death might be like. Endless repetition of the same thoughts and ideas. I don't know why anybody would want that.
Yes, this has been one of the explanations provided, and believe me, many of the scientists studying NDEs have considered that possibility, and there has even been some (somewhat sketchy) research with rats appearing to show some kind of flare up of energy before the brain flat lines completely - and it does flatline pretty much after 15-30 seconds once the heart and breathing ceases. But here's another problem with the theory of a "flaring brain". Near-Death research indicates the phenomena of an NDE - and the criteria for an NDE has been scientifically established using the Bruce Greyson scale - the NDE itself is identified as a very vivid, and more importantly, COHESIVE psychological experience that does not have the ambiguous psychological experiences one might typically have in a dream or an hallucination (which have been well studied in psychology). A typical NDE is often reported by the percipient as more real than their real life experience - and they are more AWARE and many will say their scope of awareness broadens while having the experience. So the scientific question is then: how can a few seconds flare up in a brain, create a cohesive, highly vivid - non-hallucinatory experience that has common elements found in all the NDE percipients across 60+ Near-Death studies worldwide using the Bruce Greyson NDE scale? One cannot ascribe the repeated observations worldwide as simply coincidental - that is statistically not viable from a scientific perspective. And a brain that is in its death throes, that shows very little to no EEG (Electroencephalogram activity) - how is it possible for it then to produce a complex, cohesive, vivid and patterned experience - which goes against all known medical science we know today? Maybe there is a good explanation, but the conclusion of the majority of scientists who have spent years of their lives studying NDEs (including Sam Parnia in this interview here) concluded that consciousness apparently is active when the brain is not active. Which in my opinion, is good science, and shows science is advancing in regards to attempting to understand the nature of consciousness itself. What that is, we don't yet scientifically know. But it does get us closer to the truth.
@@jamenta2 - Scientists are wrong somewhere everyday. Nobody can pretend to know what the brain is doing and the messages it is sending while is dying. The "vivid" visions could just be the increased energy that is being released by the brain while isn't preparing to die forever. Nobody who is living will ever know the truth. If there is something after death, you can't send a message back, and if there is nothing, you won't know because you'll just go out like a light that's been turned off. That's just the way it is. Imo
@@jamenta2 is it possible these "vivid", "cohesive" experiences aren't as vivid and cohesive as people think they are? And when do those experiences happen? How are scientists examining these people able to determine at what time they're having particular thought experiences? What I'm getting at is maybe all of these experiences are happening when their brains are becoming active again but they believe they happen for a long period of time.
@@bobbabai Yes - that has been a Skeptic talking point for a long time. If you bother to actual read the Near-Death scientific studies - instead of parrot this Skeptic talking point- you would discover (for yourself) that the researchers address this claim (coming mostly from Skeptics) and it has proven not to be scientifically plausible given the scientifically established nature of NDEs. What I'm getting at here is that just because the scientific conclusions these researchers have made - based on veridical scientific studies, differs from Skeptic dogma talking points - doesn't mean the science itself is flawed. It probably means you need to reexamine your dogma. The scientific evidence this time has been provided, you are refusing to accept the science based on dogma - thinly veiled as real scientific questions regarding NDEs.
Big difference between not being able to say exactly when someone is dead and saying that consciousness is not materially generated. This video seems to present a simplistic view. We have some idea of how brains can produce thought. We have no idea of how a thought could be produced without a brain. Apply the same type of questions to metaphysics that you apply to brain cells and neurons.
We don't even know how a thought is generated, little alone what consciousness actually consists of. Just because we don't know something scientifically (and there are quite a few open questions in science) - does not mean that we must exclude possibilities other than what some dogmatically insist must be true. For a long time people insisted light photons were only particles. For a long time scientists insisted there was no continental drift. For a long time, we had Behaviorists insisting consciousness was nothing more than functional behavior. None of these dogmas ended up being true scientifically in the long run. The Near-Death scientific research, appears to be indicating (quite clearly) that consciousness somehow can be active even when the brain is not active. Showing us science has not yet resolved the nature of what consciousness actually is - but that it is now looking more and more likely, consciousness is not fully dependent on the brain.
@@jamenta2 Just because we don’t know scientifically, does not mean we are justified in positing entirely in evidenced layers of reality that have more problems than what they supposedly solve. And citing that scientists are sometimes very wrong doesn’t mean that we can therefore toss out evidence and the scientific process. That would be like boycotting typing because some people make mistakes typing
@@jamenta2 Continental Drift wasn’t rejected dogmatically. There were scientific arguments against it and nobody proposed a force for how it could happen until mid 20th Century. (On the other hand, Wegener was not even a geologist) Then the discovery of magnetization patterns and Marie Tharp’s ocean floor cartography provided much stronger evidence of Continental Drift.
@@scienceexplains302 You seemed to have missed my point entirely. To put it in a nutshell, even scientific theories can be wrong and have often been found to be historically wrong throughout the short history of science. Even Isaac Newton has been proven wrong regarding locality. And so, your assumption that we don't know something, must mean that Near-Death studies must be scientifically flawed is not actually rational.
@@jamenta2 Except that I never said the studies are flawed. I said your statement had hidden assumptions and I listed them. Your other statement about scientists being wrong also seemed to have false assumptions. I listed those So what point did I miss?
My only hope is that I do at least SOME justice to Sam Parnia's work (and beliefs) within my own. It's slow progress, but I believe that I'm making some headway. 🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨
When you're about to cross beyond the void veil... Reflect carefully. "Before I start, I must see my end. Destination known, my mind's journey now begins. Upon my chariot, heart and soul's fate revealed. In time, all points converge, hope's strength resteeled. But to earn final peace at the universe's endless refrain, we must see all in nothingness... before we start again." --Diamond Dragons (Armageddon's Ballad) 🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨
What about the latest theory that consciousness is the magnetic field between the hemispheres of the brain? Or that the brain is actually a filter for the field of consciousness?
@@jamenta2 No argument there. My beef is with the titles of these videos, which feel more like click-bait. Did you learn what Near Death Experiences Means? Was that even really the topic of discussion?
@@KestyJoe Yeah they all do that. Part of the reason Kuhn does it is to generate more traffic. I feel he put this video out on NDE so he can get the traffic because I've heard him remark in other videos he considers NDE's just mere anecdotes (and his guest adamantly disagreed with him at the time too!) Note the very next video he put out today is about Emergence theory - which contradicts the conclusions of over 60+ NDE research studies - since there can be no emergence of consciousness from a brain that is flatlined. Kuhn is a bit of a chameleon to me - but for my taste, he really does lean far to heavily on the Materialists and has done very little homework in other scientific areas that are drying up the well of Materialistic dogma (such as NDE and Psi research, or quantum physics).
@@jamenta2 If I understand this discussion, consciousness could “re-emerge” from a brain that has flatlined, just as it re-emerges from a brain under anesthesia after “disappearing” for some time.
@@KestyJoe The question here is can consciousness be present when the brain is inactive. There are scientific indications throughout all the Near-Death studies that this *is* the case. And no, an NDE isn't just some kind of restored memory upon bodily resuscitation. This is not how memory or consciousness works and statistically would not be possible given the repeated observations across multiple world wide scientific studies.
My daughter works in hospice and she works with elderly patients close to death and she can now predict who is close to passing. They see loved ones sometimes pets in the corner of the room only they can see and say they have come for them. To help guide them to the other side.
This is true! I did hospice nursing and they sure do! Usually for days before they talk to them. I'm glad!
My wife is also a hospice nurse. She sees the relatives of the person from the other side preparing for their loved one to cross over. And then... when they do cross... she has had them come and visit her and they will ask her to please come to their funeral. Which she does. I can't walk into a cemetery without someone coming and talking to her. No... they are not living in the Cemetery they know where their body is buried and kind keep a eye on it and they know who can see and talk to them and who can't.
@@MrNirom1 awesome!! I know that feeling!! I felt heard and saw many too! And some had senses of humor, In fact, in a polaroid someone too k at 230 am in an old old hospital of me at work, there's an orb in the top of the picture! It was nice and wonderful to be able to teach families in time to get into a spiritual natural mindset and acceptance ( not always easy or time for.) That's why I believe in euthanasia. The years and suffering and hoops people have to jump through is horrible! and I hate how mental hospitals and asylums prisons do Halloween things because so many of them suffered so horribly.
@@JEBBY123IFY As someone put it to me... the difference between time here and on the other side is totally different. I still have concept in my mind of the rock being dropped in the water.
A woman who had an NDE asked her guide why do babies have to die. And the answer was... they don't have to be born. But once they are, like the ripples in water that child though it may not have even taken a breath has an effect on doctors, nurses, family members etc. It is another experience. And that is why I still think it is important to allow the person to die when it is their time. If you were able to capture the differences between euthanizing someone and the days after to when they would have naturally died... how many people lost the opportunity to give that person some sort of care? The patient might not ever know... but the people doing the caring will. I would hate to have them miss out on being taught more about being compassionate, caring, loving, etc. Not only with the patient... but with all that are involved with them. Humans serving Humans = LOVE.
No one dies alone.
Sam parnia
Is a genius medical expert his work in the field of science and consciousness are making discoverys daily
One of Robert Lawrence Kuhn's best segments on the viability and validity that consciousness is perhaps a fundamental, separate part of brain function. Keep delivering these kinds of insightful, and enlightening segments Robert & team !
Wrong. He struggles for this ar haic 19th century materialism constantly and disingenuously. He lives in fear of ostracization. Your sly compliment belongs to the same class of intellectual disingenuity😅
We must also consider what people (NDErs) report during this experience. To me it’s an additional « proof » that consciousness is not produced by the brain and our identity still continues after body dies. Because the content of these experiences are very similar from one person to another , not like dreams or personal thoughts. They travel « somewhere », they meet beings, they see their body and then they see or feel loving light, they understand things about our reality and existence. These experiences are spiritual and very profound. They are life changing. I cannot understand how a dying brain could be « programmed » to deliver such experiences. Why? No there is something more
The most important thing is to understand the word "near" this actually mean not death. This means not death. So NDE say absolutely nothing at all about someone who is death.
@@Carlos-fl6ch i disagree. Moreover it doesn’t explain or change anything to the fact that a non active brain doesn’t mean consciousness stop. We just play with word. Let’s call NDEs « Temporary Death Experience ».
If your TV is broken and does not work anymore, and if you repair it ; would you say your TV was not broken because now it works again ? No, your TV was actually broken but you were able to repair it.
@@popeck27 If you want to make a. Equivocation please make ine that works. If you want to compare near that with a broken tv you cannot. That is just a wrong comparison. I would compare a broken tv with sickness.
In order to establish death people allover the world used lack of breathing or lacking a heartbeat. All though this is still common in scientific circles we now know that the braincells determine if one is death or not.
Depending on de circumstances some time after people do not get blood to their braincells anymore they start to break down without any possible way to retrieve their normal activities. No one has ever come back from such a situation.
There is one more important thing though. People with brain damage and certain conditions develop completely new characters. Moreover someone with a condition like where to two brain half's become separated from each other develop two completely different consciousnesses in the same person. How would you explain that.
People have experienced when they're brain is not working normally and try to understand what is going on. It's just an interpretation of a brain trying to make sense if it all.
@@Carlos-fl6ch It’s just a comparison to support the idea behind. Of course it’s not really comparable.
But if you want to dig into it, I would say it’s quite relevant since if you don’t do anything, the TV will never work again. In the case of sickness, we are still awake and conscious (I mean our current state of consciousness), so it’s more if your TV is working badly.
But stop comparison if it’s not your cup of tea.
3:54 Sam is saying they are dead, no doubt about that… and they are brought back (TV fixed! Ok I stop).
We are talking about flat EEG. Stop saying the brain is not working normally. The brain is NOT working anymore.
See the case of Pamela Reynolds if you want.
And finally you don’t answer the main question : why they are all living the same experience?
Regarding your question, maybe there is a mistake and we should not say they have two consciousnesses but two personalities like with schizophrenia. Two egos. I think we have a personality (a character we incarnate) and a fundamental consciousness. Sometime, through intuition, meditation, psychedelics or other means we can access these different level of consciousness and get out of our character for a moment. Even possibly when we dream. The extreme case is NDEs since they are out of their body, so they disconnect completely. That is why they feel oneness for example.
Vast topic. Hard to grasp in a comment…
I agree ElGringo. The content of the NDE reports is equally important.
IF YOU LISTEN TO ENOUGH OF THESE NDE STORIES YOU CANT HELP BUT KNOW THERES SOMETHING VERY SPECIAL ABOUT THEM.
It reinforces my suspicion that drugs fry your brain.
No. Did you listen to what the guy was saying? Cells don't die immediately upon cessation of the heart delivering oxygen to the brain.
@@wthomas5697 You only heard 10% of what he said . Of course it was the part you WANTED to hear .
@@natashatomlinson4548 You're obviously too dumb to understand the implications of what he said.
Agreed. In my experience- it is almost impossible for most people to actually **hear** what is being said by NDErs due to deep conditioning, fear, and denial. I’ve stopped trying to talk about it with people.
I had a NDE nearly 30 years ago and remember laughing at the time because we know everything already we just forgot, no one can ever tell me it didn’t happen,humans just can’t get there heads around it
What do you mean "we know everything"? Like we preplanned our lives?
same happened to me 10 years ago.i died, god told me i only have to love and showed me that in fact i just forgot. lol. i also saw my niece 4 years before she was born!
@@nikthemonarch so it sounds like things were planned before we come here? I appreciate you sharing your story. I'm struggling to "keep the faith"(I don't mean that in a bad way or strictly from a Christian perspective). Hearing about things like this helps
@@ecwilliams777 everything down to the last atom x
@@Lea31706 wow! Thank you for responding. From what you experienced do you think these plans can change once we're here, or are the set and always going to go exactly as we planned them to?
I am not sure what continues to held us back from concluding that there is something after this life considering how logical what Sam is saying seems. I guess the fact that it is still a mystery but when you think about it logically, if consciousness continues after physical brain death, then why would it suddenly stop existing! I mean medically, there should be no experience once the brain is flattened, yet you have so many ppl some of which have even verified things they could not have known otherwise, it is quite fascinating to say the least.
100 percent. This doesn't have to have religious connotations either. I think the same stubborn reasons behind an atheist not believing in a god, are behind the religious who insist their god(s) are the god(s). I Like Parna's take. He is being as objective as possible and open to where the evidence follows and will follow. The questions of how and why we are here are as relevant and mysterious today as they were thousands of years ago. Each new thing we discover is just opening up more things that need to be discovered.
@@georgef3171 Bingo pal
@Vlasko60 unicorns and fairies do not have any sort of evidence or arguments in its favor. This does. You just need to do more research or actually, this video in itself is good enough if you ask me.
@Vlasko60 I agree that there aren't what you would call emperical evidence but to say that it's the equivalent validity of a unicorn is silly. There are what you would call verified NDE accounts and many of them. To me, that supports the argument more but does it give it an emperical proof? No I agree it doesn't but since when in life do we dismiss something just cause there's no emperical proof of it? Often times, we try to speculate and connect the dots.
@Vlasko60 You do realize that almost always, in a court of law, to convict someone of a crime including murder, all you need is evidence beyond all reasonable doubt and not beyond all doubts.
🤔…..well, this time I’m speechless. This is the best “Closer To Truth” vid I’ve seen so far.
His point about what we can "perceive" with our 5 senses is really important. I think many people make the human-centric assumption that everything in the universe generates human-detectable evidence, and therefore no evidence = non existence. It's very arrogant, actually.
Excellent point
@user-tz4pb6qz7k The science says you're wrong. Virtually all of the peer-reviewed research on NDEs have concluded that hallucinations cannot be the cause. They do not share the same characteristics. Dying brain cells don't generate hyper lucid experiences. They don't suddenly cause MORE lucidity when they're dying. The burden of proof is on you for such a wild claim.
Also, someone posted your comment on the NDE subreddit and people have confirmed that the science says you're wrong. Go check it out for a more in-depth understanding on the science behind this topic.
@user-tz4pb6qz7k Also, someone posted your comment on the NDE subreddit and people have confirmed that the science says you're wrong. Go check it out for a more in-depth understanding on the science behind this topic.
When you're about to cross beyond the void veil... Reflect carefully.
"Before I start, I must see my end. Destination known, my mind's journey now begins. Upon my chariot, heart and soul's fate revealed. In time, all points converge, hope's strength resteeled. But to earn final peace at the universe's endless refrain, we must see all in nothingness... before we start again." --Diamond Dragons (Armageddon's Ballad)
🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨
Physicalism is fascinating to observe. It fails to account comprehensively for the reality we observe, yet paradoxically it’s adherents hold to it with religious fervor reminiscent of fundamentalists. The same for scientism.
The truth is that physical reality and the scientific method are part of the story of reality but clearly not all of it. One day we will realize that fact and learn vastly more about reality than we do now.
Since recorded history began, mothers have suddenly felt that their child is in danger or has died. Often they can distinguish between in danger and dead. That child could be outside or a thousand miles away, two years old or 32 years old. The mother is working, doing chores, sleeping or whatever, and the thought and feeling suddenly floods in that something has happened or is happening to their child. Across time, culture, religion, education level, or economic level, this phenomena has been occurring for millennia. To say that thought only resides within cells is really absurd and discounts thousands of years of experiences with the wave of a "scientific" hand. Scientists do not know what reality is. They only know what they observe in the data, and even that is vulnerable to subjective interpretation, or variables not identified or accounted for. My dad was a scientist who was at the top of his field of study. We would spend hours debating this topic. He passed last year. I wonder if his thoughts have changed. 8-)
I agree. There is a mountain of scientific research in Psi that is marginalized and ignored by hard-core materialists. But the research exists, has existed for the last century. And these people say they believe in the tenets of science, but only when it suits their biases.
I usually limit my remarks to Near-Death studies because it is by far the most recent scientific research that screws with their Materialist fundamentalism more than when trying to bring up Psi research, which is also anathema for their religion of the magical particle.
@@jamenta2 because none of it, and I'm gonna stress, none of it, is repeatable in a lab.
Sad to hear about your dad passing….😢
You're saying science dismisses experiences at a wave of a hand, but its actually you who is the one doing that. Science is the search for explanation and understanding, i.e. the how and the why that lets us explain what happened and predict what will happen. You're not asking those questions. In fact your really just trying to defend the 'unknown' because that's the only shield preconceived religious/spiritual beliefs have. You don't know what reality is. You only know you want to believe something that might not be reality as as long as its stays unknown you can continue believing what you want.
@@chrisgarret3285 Are you arguing that because it is not repeatable in a lab, it isn't true? That's what it sounds like you're saying
Very cogent guest, Bob. Thanks! In addition, some experiencers of NDEs report knowledge that could not possibly have been resident in their brains beforehand. This needs much more study, IMO
Sam's work is both extensive and incredibly clear regarding his processes and beliefs. Highly recommend that any who read this comment look him up and consider as much as they can comprehend.
🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨
@@Novastar.SaberCombat Dr's have gotten upset when the dead tell them things they said and done outside of them being together in the same room. One NDE'r told of her story how she let the Dr know what he said when he was in the next room talking about her. The first thing he did was ask her "How do you know that?" Then he committed her to a mental hospital. Yea... they are all not as cooperative as many would like them to be.
Was just watching a NDE survivor with prior knowledge realizing with horror after that after the 1st plane struck the tower the 2nd one was still incoming. Not that this is 'hard proof' but it is certainly interesting and demands our attention.
This the best ever video I've ever seen on the channel. Next to Suskind's black hole description. Awesome experience. 👏
I mentioned NDE's in a recent video. Thanks for bringing this up. I found his explanations clear, concise and unbiased. The idea of brain being an antenna for consciousness may be the case. It is always hard to make a prediction about unknown. Consciousness could be a program that is working and saved in a universal hard drive. It could be a small program that delivers our experiences to aliens or God like beings in their galaxies from our perspective and understanding of earth. It could simply be a simulation of our real world like in the movie matrix and every person and animal is connected to one being expanding it's consciousness with different senses, experiences, perspectives etc. Whatever it is, we will (or won't) learn after we die.
If reincarnation is real we have "died" and experienced the other side perhaps many times - and forgotten it, but not completely, since it can be recalled through regression hypnosis.
@@l.h.308 As far as I know hypnosis isn't very reliable. It doesn't work on me even if I want to but some people can see imaginary things by inculcation easily. Still, hypnosis is another interesting phenomenon that makes me think how consciousness works. It's like we are not who we are but we are whoever we believe are. It's surprisingly easy to shift someone's sense of self perception.
That was a great segment. First time I've heard new information on this subject in quite a while (meaning the reviving of people after hours of being clinically dead). Fascinating stuff.
I have heard of such reviving after hours in cases when people have been lying in ice-cold water after an accident, but that it can also happen when lying in a hospital bed is very interesting indeed!
I’ve had out of body experience, and other phenomena without an NDE, what you experience is very real.
more real then real...
That is how I died, an out of body experience while swimming. I know now not to leave my body if my body isn't in a safe place.
wow...a new dimension to delve into. kudos to both of you.
I haven't had an NDE, but I've had an Out of Body Experience and it was no illusion. It was more real than my current waking reality. The mind/consciousness is most definitely non-local. There seems to be a separation between the matter part and consciousness. My experience taught me that brain does not produce consciousness.
You merely had a lucid dream. It was an illusion. You weren't really traveling anyplace spatially, you were merely visualizing something in your mind. How could you see unless you had eyes? Where were you when the experience ended, back in bed?
@@vitus.verdegast you didn't experience it therefore you have no idea. Muting you.
@@cosminvisan520 What's also in Consciousness is that if you have a disease of the eyes you go blind. And "seeing" something in a dream is not the same as seeing in real life, even if both happen in Consciousness. You can't make the world go away by saying it's all in your mind. You still have to deal with it.
@@cosminvisan520 I'm sure you think you've got some deep cosmic revelation but I'm aware of the various transcendental philosophies of Hindu-Buddhism about Consciousness being the essential nature of reality. The pitfall of that kind of thinking is that it can easily descend into solipsism, where you dismiss physical reality because it's only a thought, as if your ego controls Consciousness.
@@cosminvisan520 No problem here. If you want to gaze at your navel all your life, go ahead, enjoy.
It means there's more to us than just a body and mind. And once that knowledge is known through experience and becomes common knowledge, everything changes for the better.
Philip K. Dick, the famous sci-fi author of Blade Runner, wrote a novel called Ubik, about NDE and described the fugue state of consciousness as Half-life. It's a fascinating story about a world where people's consciousness can be kept alive in half-life indefinitely and continue to communicate with the living. As is typical of his writing style Ubik also provokes a sense of paranoia and unease in the reader as well much along the lines of The Matrix.
It's a very good story if anybody gets a chance to read it. Mr. Dick was a master of mind-bending fiction that always had an element of conspiracy and truth to it. Cheers!
Arguments for the out-of-body experience: NDE can occur when the brain is healthy and the person only fears imminent death; patients somehow report events in the hospital room or other rooms, the reports confirmed by others; NDE stories have interesting common features.
or insist on leaving the body.....I try to leave every chance I get.
When you're about to cross beyond the void veil... Reflect carefully.
"Before I start, I must see my end. Destination known, my mind's journey now begins. Upon my chariot, heart and soul's fate revealed. In time, all points converge, hope's strength resteeled. But to earn final peace at the universe's endless refrain, we must see all in nothingness... before we start again." --Diamond Dragons (Armageddon's Ballad)
🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨
I remember the day I got the phone call from my wife that my nephew had hung himself at work. She said that he was still alive, but on life support at the hospital. I already knew that he had left.
Extraordinary discussion 👌👍
In the end, he said that the consciousness continued after brain has flat-lined. In my opinion, it means that the present equipment, which we have is showing flat line, is not sophisticated enough to detect the subtle activity. I am sure that science will acquire that sophistication sooner than later.
Thumbs up for a definite possibility.
@@cosminvisan520 When someone has their brain removed, I will believe that you believe that
@@cosminvisan520 Demonstration, please. When has that ever happened?
I wish the conversation could continued from the last minute!
Me too, it ended a bit too soon
I've had NDE's & OBE's & the thing I noticed immediately is that time is an illusion, but when I came back, and asked about how long things were happening, I couldn't believe how quick time is, though it doesn't seem that way, but once time collapses, you feel like things take an eternity, in the living time realm! There were times, I didn't even understand what was happening to me, or why it was when I'd run up to people, screaming at them, to help me, and they would ignore me, but I later realized it's because they couldn't hear me because I was in my spirit! All I can say is that our consciousness exists outside of the body, and when inside of the body our consciousness is of this realm, but outside the body, you are outside of time space! These experiences, I will never forget! It's also sad that when you come back, you really have to act like nothing happened, or be very selective about who you tell, because most people will not believe you, and it will just make you feel more isolated, so I'm glad we live in a time when people no longer have to deny what happened to them! Also, your spiritual senses are very different than the physical ones! So when they say the dead know nothing, that isn't exactly true! 🥰✨
I died 2 months ago. I too noticed that time didn't exist. How I saw and heard things were different as my eyes and ears were on my body yet I was "told" I can't be here yet, it's not my time. My body came back when my soul was sent back.
Very logical & profound.
Very good discussion. Definitely worth pursuing. Deserves an answer. No closer to truth… but hopeful
I have really enjoyed this discussion, informative and interesting, thanks 🙏
this video was one of the best and the subject matter very current.
When Friedrich Wohler synthesized urea in his lab in 1828, science declared that life was just chemistry, and it was just a matter of working out the details. Almost 200 years of sciencing later and while incredible details have been worked out, life stubbornly refuses to go along with the program. Consciousness is a feature of life, so if you deny that life is a mystery, then the mystery just moves up one level to consciousness.
Just a matter of time, 200 years? So what? That's a blink of an eye and our science is very early.
@@chrisgarret3285 Using your own logic, wasn't it a little premature to declare life to be "just chemistry" in 1828? The only reason they were so adamant back in the day was to fight off Vitalism and other mystic ideas like souls. Isn't it time to throw off the overcompensation of the 19th century?
@@cosminvisan520 It's mysticists like you that prevent real scientists from being able to admit that while life is a physical process, it is totally unknown how it works. Even you should understand that evolution is not limited to "known" or even understandable effects. Photosynthesis existed long before anyone had any idea that light could be used as a power source to synthesize organic molecules.
@@cosminvisan520 See what I mean? You invoke mysticism for everything, but never make any effort to explain your wonky pronouncements. I'm sure I'm not the only one who is a little tired of being told such trivial and mundane "facts" that are just some made-up metaphysical nonsense. I'm beginning to think that you don't even understand the doctrine you so fervently promote, and I have no desire to go find out what it is you think you understand, but I'm pretty sure there is no competent authority out there who would say that molecules or brains don't exist.
The conversation stops abruptly at the most interesting point. I am longing to hear Sam Parnia talk about what people are conscious of during the NDE. Not the mystical experiences about which we hear a lot. But is it true that they accurately report seeing and hearing things that really happened while their senses were totally incapable of receiving external signals? For me that would be a deciding factor for the existence of conciousness independent of the body.
I suggest you should check the Jeff Mara podcast. He interviews people who had near death experiences.
There is quite a bit of literature on the topic and fascinating to read. What I find interesting is how closely the NDE phenomena adheres to the Dr. Bruce Greyson NDE scale, yet is quite varied from person to person, regardless of their previous religious outlook, age, education or cultural background.
You could try "astral projection". Its real, but it requires a lot concentration, probably its necessary a lot of meditation. These kind of experiences are necessary to understand that we are not only the physical body... But, I think you wont believe me... :D
@@tao4124 I do believe you.
@@cosminvisan520 you seem to be assuming a lot about me ( sitting on a couch watching TV etc.). I am aware of Sam Parnia's big project "AWARE" whose reports came out in 2015 and 2022. I wanted to hear the results from his own mouth , which is why we watch interviews. Especially the results of accurate visual awareness during NDE because that seems to be a clinching point for consciousness independent of body.
I like the idea that the brain has a hidden organ that has existed and evolved in a higher dimension but is nonetheless tethered to our physical body
Username reported
Thanks for the idea of organs in higher dimensions
@@cosminvisan520 for you?
@@Lagerfanny-g7e white knight on his post, admirable, your girlfriend will probably say to her lover how much she is proud of you lol
@@ineffige Get a life.
This is so fascinating. I love this interview
This guy is incredibly well spoken. Awesome piece of a conversation right here.
How is it that people having NDE’s can recount what has happened in the operating room while they are in this deathlike state??
Yes, one of the most critical questions coming out of NDE research. How is this possible? Although, it does coincide with other known Psi phenomena that has been scientifically investigated in the past (such as Remote Viewing).
Astral trip? (that's the basic)
There are many, many wavelengths that go beyond what human technologies can measure or detect. When you're about to cross beyond the void veil... Reflect carefully.
"Before I start, I must see my end. Destination known, my mind's journey now begins. Upon my chariot, heart and soul's fate revealed. In time, all points converge, hope's strength resteeled. But to earn final peace at the universe's endless refrain, we must see all in nothingness... before we start again." --Diamond Dragons (Armageddon's Ballad)
🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨
It is good to see science is catching up with what spiritual lecturers,etc.... have said for many years now. They put science terms for a topic which I think is above science. Whatever observation they make will never deliver what they expect to find as the ultimate reality is not observable by the brain. The brain only an interpreters and affects big time the the thing observed,
Modern research on Near Death Experience by Raymond moody, reincarnation memories by Ian Stevenson/Jim trucker and past lives regression by Brian Weiss all independently but coincidentally show that our consciousness survive death, we live many lives and our thoughts and actions matter in the hereafter.
So be kind and helpful to others, be virtuous, meditate and cultivate ourselves to higher spiritual levels. Cheers.
Exactly what i needed to start my day.
You must not drink coffee.
@@jeffamos9854 Hahah You're so funny Jeff! Hilarious!
where does the consciosness go after we die?
A little better, but you are still not considering all the evidence. How does a person lying dead on the operating table know what is taking place in a different part of the hospital? How does a person currently alive know about intimate personal experiences from a previous life? (re-incarnation) Consciousness is clearly non physical and non local and cannot be explained n purely physical terms.
Basic astral trip.
Buddha said “This body must lose three things before it lies forsaken, tossed aside like an insentient log: vitality, warmth, and consciousness.” (MN 43)
Word it anyway you want but unless you have had these experiences, all you can do is go in circles. ✌🏽Nothing can truly explain it in human language. It is too far removed.
The continuation of life is real indeed....Let Love and Light flow from Jesus freely through us all today...Filling us with Joy, and overflowing into others lives!
Makes me question why our conscious is with us at all and why we are not super intelligent. I've had a lot of experience with spirits as a nurse in old psyche hospitals and anyplace people died so I know it's all around us but I don't know why we had to be here in this incredibly hard life when we could have been happier? More of a help? And then where we go from here and if we have any control over that?
I guess being surrounded by suffering makes us compassionate. That’s all I can think of
@@OrthodoxJoker yes the thinking we're here to learn and hopefully get to the self actualized place where love compassion forgiveness and no material possession or all the worldy hate and chaos is the point of getting closer to God. Suffering does bring humility! Then to teach that also is rewarding. I've had a lifetime of child abuse and then marrying alcoholics abuser, but had children and changed my path to learn to not repeat as much bad, and became a Nurse. I was always more of a memories person than material but now I am sick and suffer so much I'm ready to go! Not allowed in this culture but there is always more suffering to adjust to. I try to help people online and I want to know everything I can about where I'm going and if I've done enough or if I have the right to choose when I am ready to go. I think it should be a personal choice and accepted but it isn't here and so people hide it and miss out on dying with dignity. I mostly want to be assured I won't be punished for not co ti ui g to suffer and lose all function and independence and rot in some nursing home. We don't have enough good choices or medications and society and people leave. I enjoyed doing hospice nursing and de criminalizing death for people.
@@JEBBY123IFY thank you for sharing your story. I’m sorry your life is hard. I am relatively lucky compared to you but it does make me wonder why some people have it worse of than others. You can get through this and hopefully there is something great beyond.
@@OrthodoxJoker thank you. I'm glad to be able to talk to people and watch these videos. Nice to hear everyones perspective. Pain sucks! It just steals your life away. But I know there's always worse. I just hope I did enough good. You can't get away from regret and hindsight for mistakes but that's life! Love and compassion and empathy kindness forgiveness are the lessons! Our world has been in such chaos people are so divided and scared. But death is part of life. Praying for love and light for everyone!
Does anybody know what happened to AWARE II?
Fantastic discussion and what an awesome guest speaker.. I suspect some day we may learn that the physical brain is the machine/mechanism that carries and maintains the mind (consciousness) and that their design (and possibly some latent things we don't know about yet) are our DNA/Native... the three things that define and together construct a human that is from the Animal Kingdom, yet more than that. We carry more of our ancestors, possibly, than is realized.
Not sure why, and it has been a long time since I read this book, but this discussion reminds me of "Duex Ex Machina"... Will have to review the book to see if it relates of I have a misfiring neuron, which is quite possible.
Also, from the great and awesome movie "Princess Bride" is someone dead, or just mostly dead?
Frank Herbert's Dune would teach you more.
Dante, great book. I enjoyed the Foundation Trilogy by Azimov more. Really liked the first Dune movie, have not seen the new one yet though.
@@mark.J6708 Yes I read the Foundation series several times as a teenager. And I've read all the Dune books. And was a huge Star Trek fan as a kid and all throughout my life. Went to a number of conventions, met Leonard Nimoy. But what's odd, is Roddenberry allowed the Vulcans to be telepathic - which is not allowed in the reductive materialist universe - since it breaks locality of the brain (among other things). But why I like Dune - it precursors and imagines the evolution of consciousness, but also as a warning - although the later books seemed to have a kind of hope as well.
Dante, just a short reply as am making coffee... read through these as a kid as well, was not a Trekkie, but did once play paint all against Shatner... my son and I were on the Borg team as I did not want to be on the Federation nor Klingon team. Don't know Star Trek, Klingons were telepathic, that seems odd, but I do not know the Trek world. I remember thinking the few original shows I watched had no plants on the ships and only Spok had beyond normal abilities. Did watch a bio show on Leonard Nemoy produced by his son I think, fascinating and gifted man.
@@jamenta2 did you balance your sci-fi reading with the classics.. Russian writers as well? History, military, justt humorous or for pure entertainment....etc... eating through bookstore i always enjoyed alternating one after the other to balance perspectives and give the mind time to process one after the other... read about continuously and run amuck in the woods, amongst all the other life bizzyness, martial arts for balance, sports for fun for burning of energy and learning teamwork... different therorie of faiths... grateful for the way I was raised, tried the same with my kids... fun stuff to look back to and remember the purposes of things.
This is a really solid look at the materialist ‘monist’ argument
I'm absolutely befuddled every time I hear apparently smart people still confusing things like thoughts with consciousness, or as I prefer "awareness."
'apparently' I think should be 'allegedly' in your comment. At least some of the time.
I'd say they are 2 different things. Awareness is a requirement for thought.
I was blessed to have an NDE, Near Death Experience, at age 22.
It was amazing and wonderful....AND I DID NOT WANT TO RETURN TO MY BODY.
I look forward to death now, and I'm certainly not afraid of it!
Thoughts are like gravity.
The more mass there is, the more gravity affects it.
The more (undamaged) brain cells we have, the more capable the brain is.
I think when certain amount of things accumulate in massive quantities, other things arise.
Another example is the electron. In big enough quantities and flowing through a cable, we get our beloved electricity.
We find in nature all sorts of transmissive qualities - when light enters water, when electricity conducts through a wire, when energy heats a pot of coffee. It is not extreme to suppose the brain might be a conduit for consciousness and not actually produce thoughts or feelings. Currently, there really is not scientific evidence that demonstrates how any combination of electricity or chemicals can create a single thought or emotion. None. Zip. Science cannot even create life - and many scientists have tried to produce life in a laboratory and have not even come close.
@@jamenta2
In other words. We live in a simulation. 😊
@@Bassotronics I don't know. It sure does seem to act like it has rules right? I mean, we have all these "laws of physics" - where did they come from? Our universe itself seems extremely well tuned for life as we know it to exist. And why is there even a reality at all? I mean, it seems like nothing should exist at all come to think of it - why indeed is there even existence? But given we do have existence, and it follows some very clear rules - it does seem to imply that other "existences" might also be possible - other simulations as well - the Everett Multi-Worlders certainly will argue such is the case. So if there is more than one universe - each one is a kind of "simulation" with difference laws of physics, different experiences etc.
@@Bassotronics life's origin is either a creation with a specific purpose or an emerging proces that might not have a purpose at all... back to Robert's question "why something"...
@@jamenta2
Indeed 👍🏻
Thanks 👍
I wonder if the brain is somehow just the receiver for consciousness like a radio eg. An outside source of some kind. Fascinating subject that will continue to intrigue for generation’s to come. 🙏🙏
You are gradually becoming conscious of this sentence but
if you close your eyes you will not
be conscious of its ending.
@@cosminvisan520 Being conscious is a process.
This is a self evident fact.
Processes are abstract entities.
Abstract entities have no location,
outside or inside.
Consequently 'brains' cannot be inside.
@@cosminvisan520
Do you disagree that being conscious is a process?
I've had an OBE . The mind /consciousness is non local and can separate from the brain. I know this because I've experienced it first hand.
@@Dion_Mustard I had a dream in which I was flying upright and naked over my street a hundred feet below me.
I know I can fly because I've experienced it first hand. 😂
No matter how you explain that consciousness fundamental, Robert Lawrence is still a hardcore materialist.
Very Uplifting Sam Parnia 😀
wishful thinking
@@chrisgarret3285 "wishful thinking" from a materialist who has yet to scientifically prove thoughts are produced by electro-chemical reactions in the brain. Keep trying - you might find it some day right? Talk about ... wishful thinking!
@@jamenta2 that kinda thinking probably has you probably thinking that deja vu is some kind of a supernatural event too doesn't it? I mean, we haven't' explained it yet so it must be magical, right?
@@chrisgarret3285 And your superstition in inert particles that can do everything, including produce thought itself - isn't magical? LMAO
@@jamenta2 no, just means we don't understand it. I'm sure an iphone would be pure magic to someone in the year 1500, are you saying iphones are magical?
What happens in neurons after death that is considered to be conscious?
Why does it bother some people that the brain might have an immaterial component to it? I think it's exciting.
Yes I totally agree. I think its because many physiscists are desperate to hang on to old models of reality. They are scared by this and cant accept it. 😂
Humanity dislikes new data that destroys or negates the purpose or validity of the old. It's evident in almost everything mankind is all about. If a person has believed "X" for 30+ years, not even new evidence to the contrary will reverse nor change such s¥cophaπti¢, self-fulfilling mantras.
If flight animals act instinctively then animals with flight or flight must have some sense of self awareness to determine which option is best under prevailing circumstances. Is self awareness the starting point for consciousness?
Yes, you can actually be dead and alive at the same time. This is at least what quantum physics is pointing out.
The First Law of Thermodynamics states that energy cannot be created or destroyed; it can only be converted from one form to another. How does this relate to human beings and all living things? Are living things energy in a sense? What happens to that energy when the flesh and bone experiences death? Where does that energy go?
There are many examples showing that the memory is part of the brain and not part of the consciousness. You can still be conscious, but with wiped-out memories. Now, NDE is based on memories of a patient?! But how dead brain can collect memories?
there are cases when brain is destroed by alzheimer or dementia or cancer. People are nearly braindead, but hours before day their memories return, they are still conscious and their brains are working better than ever. Then they die. That is really mysterious isn't it?
Like a computer, the CPU and GPU do *not* store information about what they're processing. They only interpret it. The important data is stored elsewhere. However, it seems fairly clear that transporting that data ("memories") beyond the void veil is inhibited or prohibited.
Thus, from my perspective... when YOU are about to cross beyond the void veil... Reflect carefully! 🔍
"Before I start, I must see my end. Destination known, my mind's journey now begins. Upon my chariot, heart and soul's fate revealed. In time, all points converge, hope's strength resteeled. But to earn final peace at the universe's endless refrain, we must see all in nothingness... before we start again." --Diamond Dragons (Armageddon's Ballad)
🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨
Very good video 👍
That was an important episode!
But are there any reasonable hypotheses of what physical processes outside the brain could produce consciousness? I don’t think there s even a wild guess.
Gruesome Pseudoscience!
Good Science of Penrose-Hameroff will prove that what happens in that "NDE"s is in fact "Quantum Underground" effect similar to Psychodelics that are proven in Penrose and Hameroffs model clear opposite of Anesthesia!
Therefore Dualism is rubbish!
And trying to resurrect people with dying brains is immoral!
Apparently when I will be old man I will have to go everywhere with small Bomb attached to my head with detonator activated by Flat EKG!
Sad Times!
And Parnias Dualistic pseudoscientific interpretation is really shameful!
Read Stanisław Lems "Star Diaries" and "Futurological Congress", and "Wizja lokalna"(Vision at a Crime scene?) if you don't understand!
Good observation. There are no viable hypotheses of anything external to the brain causing consciousness.
@@georgegrubbs2966 Depends what do you mean by "external to brain" if you mean "soul" of course it's the non-scientific belief purely thing that physics cannot give you and which I therefore reject.
But external to brain could be satisfied by Bohmian Mechanics or some form of Panpsychism
Counsciousness then is just a property of the Universe
@@jimmyjasi-anti-descartes7088 I get your point. Even with wave functions and fields, I claim that "consciousness" is a word to mean a set of capabilities and properties displayed by "things" - usually living things, and here we speak of human beings. To be conscious, a human must be awake, alert (thinking and feeling), aware (of surroundings and self), and experience a "subjective life" (qualia). That is consciousness as defined.
What causes consciousness as defined? I claim that when the brain "boots up" from the brain stem (reticular activating system and other brain stem structures) and sends information via nerve impulses (neurons firing) to all areas of the brain, then sensory, motor, and all nervous systems (central, peripheral, autonomic, etc.) become fully functional and the human exhibits properties that is defined as being "conscious."
At the atomic and subatomic levels, wave functions and fields play their parts that motivate (energize, innervate) brain cells to action. I no not give any credence to panpsychism.
@@cosminvisan520 LOL. 🙂
This is way over my head..I wish they would simplify what they are saying.😊
It's interesting that many NDEers report that they felt their consiousness, upon leaving the body, swoosh out of the top of their head. And some say entered back in through the head too.
Think of the brain like the CPU of a computer. The CPU doesn't contain the information on the SSD nor HDD, though; it only processes it. 🙂 Same for a GPU vs. the information which is sent to be *interpreted* by it.
Thus... when you're about to cross beyond the void veil... Reflect carefully.
"Before I start, I must see my end. Destination known, my mind's journey now begins. Upon my chariot, heart and soul's fate revealed. In time, all points converge, hope's strength resteeled. But to earn final peace at the universe's endless refrain, we must see all in nothingness... before we start again." --Diamond Dragons (Armageddon's Ballad)
🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨
If all we know is through consciousness we can say that things are made of consciousness like a in a dream. Therefore there can never be anything other that consciousness. Does that makes sense ?
All questions will be answered when we leave this body. I was lifted from this shell and learned this. All my questions and then questions that were not derived from my life experience were answered but that's all I recall. Not one answer did I bring back to this shell except that the answers are beyond. "one step beyond". I don't tell many people of this experience because like my son they would say I was hallucinating and that I'm delusional.
You're not delusional. Just as Parnia noted, electromagnetic waves cannot be seen nor heard... but they certainly exist. Black holes cannot be seen either, but we detect them via gravitational lensing. Thus, just because a person can't see something doesn't mean it isn't there. And beyond that, "flatlining" is limited to crude methods of detection. There are wavelengths which cannot be recognized by such digital gear.
Sooo... when you're about to cross beyond the void veil... Reflect carefully. 💪😎✌️
"Before I start, I must see my end. Destination known, my mind's journey now begins. Upon my chariot, heart and soul's fate revealed. In time, all points converge, hope's strength resteeled. But to earn final peace at the universe's endless refrain, we must see all in nothingness... before we start again." --Diamond Dragons (Armageddon's Ballad)
🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨
This concious field streams
Through the physics of dreams
Yet there is more to NDE’s than simply returning to life it’s the ability to apparently remain an observer to this reality from beyond the body , whether it is within its surroundings or much further even miles away , the ability to return and confirm events during this ‘temporary death’. to requires explanation !
I agree. That part of NDE's is often ignored completely by reductive materialists. But there is plenty of corroborated testimony by not just one person that confirms this can also be a feature of a Near-Death experience.
@@jamenta2 there is also plenty of testimony about seeing Elvis all over the world after he died
I mean ye, if you ignore all the stories that weren't accurate and you cherry pick the ones that were, sure
@@chrisgarret3285 yes just as the UFO phenomenon ….. I haven’t had a NDE but I most certainly viewed UFO’s twice in my life or should I call them UAP’s . Clearly humanity is far from understanding reality !
@@No2AI I'll save you the time on UFOs, some electromagnetic phenomenon, ye we don't understand it fully yet, but it's certainly not aliens
Flatline EEG does not tell you about whole brain activity. Could it be that a self-protective brain mechanism is activated near-death that gives rise to NDEs? The combination of sophisticated brain imaging and subjective descriptions of NDEs in individuals suffering cardiac arrest may begin to answer the question of whether transcendent experiences emerge from a threatened brain or provide a window into a consciousness that is immaterial and uses the living brain as a transducer.
By personal experience I attest that Consciouness is NOT produced by the brain. Consciouness never dies. 👍
yes allah told us that .. search about it ..
This was a really interesting discussion that had nothing to do with near-death experiences.
When practicing Transcendental Meditation as a teenager….(Trained by people from Maharishi Mahesh Yogi’s facility flown to Vermont to train us all)
I could experience many of the same expressions of Near Death Experience…on demand, or nearly so;
Out Of Body.
Sense of Levitation.
Remote Viewing of others in other rooms.
Traveling out of the house to the fields and through woods.
Traveling off planet.
I’ve always assumed it was the result of being at Burke Mt. Academy with US Olympic Ski Team Coaches…being trained to an extremely high level of fitness.
A Resting Heart Rate of 45 BPM makes for a very much lowered oxygenation rate. I’m guessing that a sustained, artificially induced state of anoxia would allow a person to experience the concurrent state of “wellbeing + biofeedback” within a Mind having been trained to be “empty of conscious thought” …subsequently acting to be a subconscious canvas for our deepest, unrealized thoughts and emotions.
It seemed SO real.
I was always awake, not injured….just simply doing one of my two daily TM Sessions.
It started after my first week or so of practicing TM.
It wasn’t every time and I couldn’t “make it happen”….but I could see myself-out of body, from above and behind myself looking down.
I could see other people waking up ..sitting up in their beds to start their days…and TM Sessions.
No sense of having a body...just traveling. The only time it occurred to me was being in space and flying past a planet.
You’re not supposed to be “thinking” about anything when doing Transcendental Meditation…only your Mantra as it repeats in the background of your mind.
It’s supposed to allow unrealized thoughts to arise from the Subconscious to the Conscience Mind..and not dwelt upon.
As soon as you realize something occurred to you…you let it go and return to your Mantra.
But…it’s not everyday you suddenly find yourself seeing one of your teammates rubbing her eyes in her pajamas as she starts her day and grabs for glasses..or the guys in the adjoining room..or…fly out into woods …off planet.
In other words, it’s SO amazing that you have no choice but to go along for the ride…which isn’t the point of your TM Session..but impossible to resist.
Hi Richard,
did you ever verify any of the things you viewed in OOBE state?
That would be interesting if you could find something/information which is not available from where you are seated, during your meditation
@@malna-malna no…and yes. I did see “Fish” in her yellow pajama’s that morning about 20 minutes later…(her room was the mirror image of my room on the second floor of The Woods House) and/but I kept the experiences to myself the same way one doesn’t ever verbalize their Mantra out loud or ever tell anyone what it is.
I never had the opportunity to speak to Instructors about it or get a TM-Check Up (like you’re supposed to do).
I just always assumed it was my mind making up its own Movie Reel of free association. I’m always looking for a rational answer to what may seem inexplicable to others. So many of us are wired that way.
I don’t see anything magical or metaphysical about the psychological-Chemical….emotional feedback mechanisms and blindspots of human consciousness and comprehension.
In other words…if one thinks there’s an otherworldly reason for these perceptions…..they’re wrong.
@@richardlipshay6407 Thank you for your reply.
I admit I'm a little confused. So you were able to see that "Fish" in OOBE state which I assume you had not seen before. That would mean some form of extra sensory perceptions. To me that's kinda 'otherworldly' in itself. But I don't want to bother you more with it, I'm grateful that you took your time to explain in more detail. This topic is personally very important to me.
@@malna-malna it’s always held a special fascination for me for all these years. The context for “not being otherworldly”…being…none the nature of what causes these experiences are externally imbued…
While the mental imagery of traveling a few feet through the wall to my back to see Diane Poisson (Poisson = “Fish” in French) in her room sitting up ..Pete and “Cracker” (Steve Graham) in their room.
Feeling like I was levitating off the bed.
Sometimes, traveling straight away up through the atmosphere and being being off planet…seeing other planetary bodies in space with their own colors and hues of atmosphere… but always as I’m flying past…sometimes simply leaving the building to travel across our field and into the woods on the running trails…or obstacle courses.
I had the full range of experiences and in the beginning I’d ruin my Meditation period by being SO SURE I was floating 4 to 6 inches off the bed because I couldn’t feel anything and I felt like I was slightly higher than usual relative to other objects in the room….then my hands would fly down to the bed beneath me and sure enough…right where physics dictate.
I agree with this guy
the more I read and learn about it all the more I'm convinced that this is all there is, pathetically sad but seems inevitable
I agree with you. Sad? Of course life is sad.
So brief. We start as babies and so often we end as babies. There´s nothing before life and nothing after. We exist for 80-odd years, out of all eternity. Blink and you´ll miss us. Blink again and the Earth has gone too. Just a few more blinks and the Uni´s gone.
What purpose could there be in life? There can be no ultimate purpose, irrespective of whether you believe in a Creator.
Time for a drink. Better ... three or four drinks!
Or perhaps your own opinion of the issue is not the final say.
Given the scientific accumulation of Near-Death studies, and also the last century of research into psi phenomena, including the remarkable work of scholars like Frederic Myers or Karlis Osis - I feel the opposite. I think there is a good chance that consciousness is something fundamental to reality and the nihilism that has become supposedly the intellectual de rigueur of our time is likely an erroneous, unproven assumption. I've read quite a bit on the subject - have quite a few bookshelves. Everything I've read makes me lean toward not believing in the nihilist fantasy.
@@roberthutchins4297 makes me depressed just thinking about it...
@@chrisgarret3285 I think about it in bed. Just how - and why - did the Uni come to exist?
Once, there was nothing. No matter nor energy. No space, no time. No laws. Absolute and total NOTHING!
Then, suddenly there was SOMETHING!
How did that happen?
Almost enough to believe in a Creator. Were it not for the problem of where did the Creator come from?
Seperated from my body while I was sleeping. I saw my body and little daughter sleeping. Some power pullinv me from my back fast and I was afraid immensely. Then while going away from my body I closed my eyes and started praying. All of a sudden I opened my eyes in my earthly body. So did I pass away and come back to life while sleeping or are just these experiences called NDEs trick of fearful brain?
Death is death, near death is life. NDE is a LIFE experience.
Life could even pull itself out of the nothing, so it is eternal, and that is what "from eternity to eternity" means..
@@cosminvisan520 Eternity doesn't exist.
What do near death experiences mean? Well, from my perspective NDE's or OBE's seem to say that the mind is something that can disengage from the body.
I've had this chicken/egg question for a long time: does the body produce the soul, or is it a vehicle for the soul? Methinks it's the latter.
I forgot who said sthg like this: the chicken is the way which the egg forces by to exist another egg… Feynman?
It means that we are closer to truth without realizing we are the truth.
Lord Krishna says our existence consist of 3 levels 1.Gross body 2.Subtle body i.e mind , intellect and ego 3.Soul. Now conciousness emarges from soul and mind is the interface between outer world and soul.
Go make curry
Gruesome Pseudoscience!
Good Science of Penrose-Hameroff will prove that what happens in that "NDE"s is in fact "Quantum Underground" effect similar to Psychodelics that are proven in Penrose and Hameroffs model clear opposite of Anesthesia!
Therefore Dualism is rubbish!
And trying to resurrect people with dying brains is immoral!
Apparently when I will be old man I will have to go everywhere with small Bomb attached to my head with detonator activated by Flat EKG!
Sad Times!
And Parnias Dualistic pseudoscientific interpretation is really shameful!
Read Stanisław Lems "Star Diaries" and "Futurological Congress", and "Wizja lokalna"(Vision at a Crime scene?) if you don't understand!
After feeding the scientists " we are material objects " theory , we are nothing but material objects , no free will it's just illusion it's because of neural firings then when we think oh very good child rapist are not responsible for their deeds afterall he is a material thing, oh we should not give respect to freedom fighters why do we ? , afterall this is because of neural firings , now your brain turns into curry then you will come to eat curry in ISKCON temple.
@@chayanbosu3293 You mix Hinduism with Christian philosophy. That's why you get nonsense.
Actually I believe in the Roger Penrose Orchestrated Objective Reduction, but there's no point in arguing for neither soul nor Free Will in that model.
1 As far as I understand Hinduism rejects "immortal soul" and instead believes that we all are One Counsciousness of Shiva under different manifestations...
I like it. But be consequent... Self cannot survive bodily death.
Your Counsciosness doesn't disappear after death in the sense that Universe doesn't disappear after your death and we all are part of Shiva (perhaps CCC Cosmology is correct this would indicate).
But after death memories, personal Counsciosness so on Certainly cease to exist!
2 Free Will doesn't exist not because of Counsciosness being "Epiphenomenal neurons firings" as there's a proof that where Counsciosness is in homo sapiens and all the other sentient animals there are deviations from Hogdkin-Huxley that almost certainly are regulated by Microtubules activity.
The reason why Free Will is an illusion is that Quantum jumps are truly random and no one can control them you included even if they happen in your brain.
3 Everything is Non-locally interconnected in QM so everything influences everything. So no one can possibly have a "Free Will" as a separate being!
Over the last few years, I've noticed organized religion initially dismissing near death experiences, to embracing it, once they were able to control the narrative
He started out sounding rational and then completely spiralled into madness in the last half. The "big dilemma" lol
A very interesting discussion.
When a part of your brain is damaged, you lose the consciousness that part of the brain supported. Consciousness is part of the brain.
Remove diodes from a radio, and you no longer hear Mozart quite the same. Does that mean the broadcast, or even Mozart is part of the radio?
The new series on utube called; the Ghost Inside my Child.Actual testimonials from children in the west remembering their past lives,clearly indicates that a separate consciousness exists outside the body.
The afterlife will be the biggest plot twist
For sure. The real stickler though is, as Ann Rice once pointed out, if death really does extinguish our consciousness forever (and I'm not yet convinced it does) but IF it does - then we won't even know the answer to the "plot twist". We'll die and that will be that.
@@jamenta2 Exactly. I'm not sure either, but I think that's part of the experience. I do think it's awfully coincidental that people have these profound experiences just as they are nearing death, but ultimately we will have to wait and see - reality is the way it is. One thing I know is that this life is beautiful. Good day
@@alexanderthaler3584 Yes there is much beauty to life, but also quite a bit of sadness and suffering. What is happening in Ukraine right now is especially sickening (I'm not taking sides here just pointing out that this is happening.) And yes, we might find out and we might not. But in the meantime what shall we do? Live in despair? Believe there is no future but it all leads to a dead end forever? I've chosen to live my life assuming that it is going somewhere. I guess you might call it a sort of "faith". Although I belong to no religious denomination - but I understand what it means to have some kind of faith.
@@alexanderthaler3584 people have profound experiences when marathon running, when taking psychedelics, when boxing, when in church, when being with the ones we love, when pandering the mystery of the universe and on and on. What can be said without any doubt is "people have profound experiences". Nothing more nothing less. None of that proves anything about anything.
@@jamenta2 ok, at least you understand that you're making yourself believe something for which there is no evidence for. If you disagree with that sentence, re-read your comment.
See Dr Eben Alexander's position on conciousness!
Near death experiences mean that you nearly died, nothing less or more.
Incorrect. Many are clinically dead when they have a near-death experience.
No, Dr. Parnia explains in his book Erasing Death that the NDE happens after the patient has been pronounced clinically dead (cardiac arrest and no brain activity). The patients are often aware of things happening in the OR after the death pronouncement that they could not possibly know unless the consciousness continues. He says that the term near death experience is a misnomer because the person is in fact clinically dead, and he maintains that it should be called an actual death experience. He also points out that there is no clinical evidence whatsoever to the oft repeated assertion that in the final throes of death neurons are firing and creating dreamlike experiences.
Consciousness is energy its the energy field within the body..
I think if doctors use a machine that can show the energy field within the body they will see it leave when the body dies but come back if brought back to life.
That field is who and what we are
*No proof of an Afterlife from Dr. Sam Parnia and his research team, yet. Seems futile. 🧠*
When you say "proof" are you asking for scientific evidence?
What scientific proof can anyone provide about feeling guilty or elated?
We know that there’s probably no after life. No need to run around rubbing people’s noses in it
@@joegibbskins Are you an atheist, thing?
@@joegibbskins how is that known ?
What does anesthesia do to brain to make unconscious?
When you turn the volume knob to zero on a radio, what is it that makes the sound go away, even though there still is a broadcast taking place?
Makes you unconscious. That’s why when you have surgery they don’t want you to eat like 24 hours before. Otherwise you might poop during surgery
People have NDEs during anaesthesia.
We'll eventually find out. 🤟🏻👌🏻
I mean if you are flat-lined and you experience consciousness, in fact straight experiences like you "go" and see your parents in a totally different city. Then you come back and ask your parents "did you do this XY thing, because i saw you with my soul or whatever". And they approve it... then there is only one explanation to these stories.
1. It's a made up story.
2. Proof that we are more than this.
Now as we have more and more stories, how long is it rational to say that these stories are lies? In my country alone there are some very compelling NDEs that you probably never heard of. These things are happening all the time, everywhere and life just goes on like we still don't know the answer to our life.
It could be anything from signs of an afterlife to your brain simply firing out flares of thoughts before it dies forever. I'm not sure which is true. I'd like the 1st option to be true, but I just don't know.
Just think about what an actual forever life after death might be like. Endless repetition of the same thoughts and ideas. I don't know why anybody would want that.
Yes, this has been one of the explanations provided, and believe me, many of the scientists studying NDEs have considered that possibility, and there has even been some (somewhat sketchy) research with rats appearing to show some kind of flare up of energy before the brain flat lines completely - and it does flatline pretty much after 15-30 seconds once the heart and breathing ceases.
But here's another problem with the theory of a "flaring brain". Near-Death research indicates the phenomena of an NDE - and the criteria for an NDE has been scientifically established using the Bruce Greyson scale - the NDE itself is identified as a very vivid, and more importantly, COHESIVE psychological experience that does not have the ambiguous psychological experiences one might typically have in a dream or an hallucination (which have been well studied in psychology). A typical NDE is often reported by the percipient as more real than their real life experience - and they are more AWARE and many will say their scope of awareness broadens while having the experience. So the scientific question is then: how can a few seconds flare up in a brain, create a cohesive, highly vivid - non-hallucinatory experience that has common elements found in all the NDE percipients across 60+ Near-Death studies worldwide using the Bruce Greyson NDE scale? One cannot ascribe the repeated observations worldwide as simply coincidental - that is statistically not viable from a scientific perspective. And a brain that is in its death throes, that shows very little to no EEG (Electroencephalogram activity) - how is it possible for it then to produce a complex, cohesive, vivid and patterned experience - which goes against all known medical science we know today?
Maybe there is a good explanation, but the conclusion of the majority of scientists who have spent years of their lives studying NDEs (including Sam Parnia in this interview here) concluded that consciousness apparently is active when the brain is not active. Which in my opinion, is good science, and shows science is advancing in regards to attempting to understand the nature of consciousness itself. What that is, we don't yet scientifically know. But it does get us closer to the truth.
@@jamenta2 - Scientists are wrong somewhere everyday. Nobody can pretend to know what the brain is doing and the messages it is sending while is dying. The "vivid" visions could just be the increased energy that is being released by the brain while isn't preparing to die forever. Nobody who is living will ever know the truth. If there is something after death, you can't send a message back, and if there is nothing, you won't know because you'll just go out like a light that's been turned off. That's just the way it is. Imo
@@jamenta2 is it possible these "vivid", "cohesive" experiences aren't as vivid and cohesive as people think they are? And when do those experiences happen? How are scientists examining these people able to determine at what time they're having particular thought experiences? What I'm getting at is maybe all of these experiences are happening when their brains are becoming active again but they believe they happen for a long period of time.
@@bobbabai Yes - that has been a Skeptic talking point for a long time. If you bother to actual read the Near-Death scientific studies - instead of parrot this Skeptic talking point- you would discover (for yourself) that the researchers address this claim (coming mostly from Skeptics) and it has proven not to be scientifically plausible given the scientifically established nature of NDEs.
What I'm getting at here is that just because the scientific conclusions these researchers have made - based on veridical scientific studies, differs from Skeptic dogma talking points - doesn't mean the science itself is flawed. It probably means you need to reexamine your dogma. The scientific evidence this time has been provided, you are refusing to accept the science based on dogma - thinly veiled as real scientific questions regarding NDEs.
Last night I dreamed that I was in work, but I didn't have my trousers on.
Is Jesus trying to tell me something ?
Yes. Put your pants 👖 back on 😅
Big difference between not being able to say exactly when someone is dead and saying that consciousness is not materially generated.
This video seems to present a simplistic view.
We have some idea of how brains can produce thought. We have no idea of how a thought could be produced without a brain.
Apply the same type of questions to metaphysics that you apply to brain cells and neurons.
We don't even know how a thought is generated, little alone what consciousness actually consists of. Just because we don't know something scientifically (and there are quite a few open questions in science) - does not mean that we must exclude possibilities other than what some dogmatically insist must be true. For a long time people insisted light photons were only particles. For a long time scientists insisted there was no continental drift. For a long time, we had Behaviorists insisting consciousness was nothing more than functional behavior. None of these dogmas ended up being true scientifically in the long run.
The Near-Death scientific research, appears to be indicating (quite clearly) that consciousness somehow can be active even when the brain is not active. Showing us science has not yet resolved the nature of what consciousness actually is - but that it is now looking more and more likely, consciousness is not fully dependent on the brain.
@@jamenta2 Just because we don’t know scientifically, does not mean we are justified in positing entirely in evidenced layers of reality that have more problems than what they supposedly solve.
And citing that scientists are sometimes very wrong doesn’t mean that we can therefore toss out evidence and the scientific process.
That would be like boycotting typing because some people make mistakes typing
@@jamenta2 Continental Drift wasn’t rejected dogmatically. There were scientific arguments against it and nobody proposed a force for how it could happen until mid 20th Century.
(On the other hand, Wegener was not even a geologist)
Then the discovery of magnetization patterns and Marie Tharp’s ocean floor cartography provided much stronger evidence of Continental Drift.
@@scienceexplains302 You seemed to have missed my point entirely. To put it in a nutshell, even scientific theories can be wrong and have often been found to be historically wrong throughout the short history of science. Even Isaac Newton has been proven wrong regarding locality.
And so, your assumption that we don't know something, must mean that Near-Death studies must be scientifically flawed is not actually rational.
@@jamenta2 Except that I never said the studies are flawed.
I said your statement had hidden assumptions and I listed them.
Your other statement about scientists being wrong also seemed to have false assumptions. I listed those
So what point did I miss?
He said consciousness was still present even though the brain had flatlined. So what did he observe that indicated consciousness? Maybe I missed it.
I sense an analogy between music and musical instruments AND consciousness and individual form.
Is each person is a musical instrument?
Whose playing the instrument?
@@ProjectMoff I prefer to imagine that we each play our own instrument.
@@chyfields So then are we the consciousness? The Instrument? Or are we player pianos?
My only hope is that I do at least SOME justice to Sam Parnia's work (and beliefs) within my own. It's slow progress, but I believe that I'm making some headway.
🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨
My hope is to remain objective and accept scientific evidence wherever it may lead us.
When you're about to cross beyond the void veil... Reflect carefully.
"Before I start, I must see my end. Destination known, my mind's journey now begins. Upon my chariot, heart and soul's fate revealed. In time, all points converge, hope's strength resteeled. But to earn final peace at the universe's endless refrain, we must see all in nothingness... before we start again." --Diamond Dragons (Armageddon's Ballad)
🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨
What about the latest theory that consciousness is the magnetic field between the hemispheres of the brain? Or that the brain is actually a filter for the field of consciousness?
That would be interesting to hear if you would explain the science behind it or any studies that showed this possibility
Good discussion, but ultimately the answer given is “I don’t know.”
Science is about admitting what we don't know.
@@jamenta2 No argument there. My beef is with the titles of these videos, which feel more like click-bait. Did you learn what Near Death Experiences Means? Was that even really the topic of discussion?
@@KestyJoe Yeah they all do that. Part of the reason Kuhn does it is to generate more traffic. I feel he put this video out on NDE so he can get the traffic because I've heard him remark in other videos he considers NDE's just mere anecdotes (and his guest adamantly disagreed with him at the time too!) Note the very next video he put out today is about Emergence theory - which contradicts the conclusions of over 60+ NDE research studies - since there can be no emergence of consciousness from a brain that is flatlined.
Kuhn is a bit of a chameleon to me - but for my taste, he really does lean far to heavily on the Materialists and has done very little homework in other scientific areas that are drying up the well of Materialistic dogma (such as NDE and Psi research, or quantum physics).
@@jamenta2 If I understand this discussion, consciousness could “re-emerge” from a brain that has flatlined, just as it re-emerges from a brain under anesthesia after “disappearing” for some time.
@@KestyJoe The question here is can consciousness be present when the brain is inactive. There are scientific indications throughout all the Near-Death studies that this *is* the case. And no, an NDE isn't just some kind of restored memory upon bodily resuscitation. This is not how memory or consciousness works and statistically would not be possible given the repeated observations across multiple world wide scientific studies.