Susan Blackmore - What Do Near Death Experiences Mean?
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- Опубликовано: 22 июл 2024
- Stories of 'near death experiences' (NDEs) are legion, affecting all cultures and peoples. NDEs have similarities-white lights, tunnels, spirit beings, feelings of unity, comfort, love. Do NDEs 'prove' that 'Heaven is for real'? Or are they mere by-products of shocks to the brain during times of physiological trauma and insults? Is there a science of NDEs?
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Susan Jane Blackmore is an English freelance writer, lecturer, and broadcaster on psychology and the paranormal, perhaps best known for her book The Meme Machine.
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I’ve had a NDE/OBE/Mystical experience in two separate occasions, one at the age of 7 and one at 46. I can attest to the validity of these experiences. It’s impossible to not be changed by such an experience. It’s the most real experience one can have. It makes the “real world” seem so fake and you can see the truth. You know what’s important and what isn’t. You know what’s on the other side as opposed to speculating or believing what you were taught to believe is on the other side. If you knew the truth, you would never worry again, you would never fear again, you would never hate again, you would feel the divine energy in everyone and everything. You would know by experience that we are all connected. And dying is not going somewhere in heaven. It is an instantaneous out of body experience. One minute you’re in your body, and the next minute you are out. That’s what it feels like. But as soon as that happens, it’s an immediate peaceful feeling like you are home and safe and I’m in a familiar place. That’s why we never feel settled on this earth. Because we yearn for that feeling we can only find there where we belong.
The second time, I felt the oneness, the bliss, that everything is playing out as it should. It felt like it was all controlled and happening the way it’s supposed to happen. There was this feeling of unconditional love. The most blissful feeling of love you could ever feel. Indescribable and incomparable. Nothing you will ever encounter on this earth will give you that feeling. It is akin to meeting God and feeling the love he feels towards you. It’s the most beautiful feeling ever.
Define" real"..
Ican, can you?
@@vhawk1951kl Go ahead define it. I’m curious as to what your definition of “real” is.
No, you*imagine*that you have had such experiences - you believe what you*want*to believe that that what human being beings are like- as credulous as imbecile children
I know what you experienced is real. I had a shared death experience when my father passed. I was gifted with observing and experiencing something similar to an NDE. The experience has forever opened my eyes. the experience is with me every day. I can never go back to who I was
Everheard of mistakes and self-deception?
I had a NDE during a surgery. The surgery was going badly apparently and I lost a lot of blood, had to get 3 units put in me they told me after. During the surgery something happened, it's hard to explain it, I felt oneness with all reality. Everything and I were one. All people and atoms and time were part of one thing. Then I was thrown back into my body and woke up mid surgery with my guts still fully open. The anesthesiologist looked me in the eyes and said "boy you better get that heart rate under control!" And then I fell back asleep and they continued the surgery for several more hours. Now I couldn't for the life of me understand what had happened to me for 2 years I struggled. I mentioned this to a doctor acquaintance of mine who was familiar with native American traditional medicine as well as western medicine. He set me up with a person who would babysit me during a 19 hour trip session of the Bolivian cactus called trichocerus bridgesii, or the Bolivian Torch. Mescaline is one of the active ingredients in the cactus flesh. And the person over seeing the session was playing traditional native American mescaline inspired spiritual chants during portions of the experience. This trip helped me fully understand my surgery NDE and put words and meaning behind the feelings of one ness I had experienced. These feelings of oneness have grown every day since then, and this happened to me years ago. It is now my Mission to tell everyone that will have ears to listen and hear about what happened. Peace and love
"There are easy biological explanations to NDE's"
...yet after more than 40 years, scientists still cant agree on one explanation.
Yes, and for hundreds of years scientist couldn't give one explanation for light, the diversity of life, and many things we know today. Nor having an explanation does not mean you then get to make up an answer for it.
Because there's more than biology to it
Why might they, given that there is nothing to explain? So called near death experiences*can* only be fantasy , for screamingly obvious reasons.
What makes a "scientist a scientist? Contemporary beings seem to suppose that there is so magic in whatever it is that they imagine "science" to be and the tend to treat anyone claiming to be a " scientist" as some sort of high priest or authority, when they can only be men(human beings). Everyone and anyone that makes experiments(and that is all men) is a "scientist", but whether or not they actually know or understand anything is moot, Science is just another word for knowledge because it is a derivative of the Latin word sciere - to know.
All words with 'sci' in them such as science conscious or conscience are derivatives of that Latin infinitive or possibly its first person singular 'scio- I know, thus science conscious and conscience are words referring to one or another form of knowledge. Now hat is knowledge? Anyone claiming to*Know* something may call himself a " scientist" but merely claiming to be a scientist does not necessarily endow the claimant with knowledge, which is to be distinguished from belief opinion and supposition.
Actually they are*Psychological* explanations-they are and can *Only* be fantasy.
Who told you that and why do you believe them?
Many people are tied to a materialistic viewpoint and won’t consider that there maybe things outside of the physical world. By its very nature, it is difficult to prove. Historically, atoms and other discoveries of “unseeable” things were discounted at first.
Thats right, specially in the light of the knowlegde that there is no causal standardphysical properties to find in the quantum world .
One might ask if the photon creates the sun or does the sun create the photon......
Nikola Tesla quote the day science begins to study the non-physical phenomenon it will make more progress in one century than all of human history I believe we should try to discover more things instead of focusing on the physical let's build some shit that could make new discoveries let's look into the non-physical phenomenon let's be bold quit worrying about the material world let's try to pull a veil away
We need to commercialize flatliner
If we could commercialize flatlining then we would know
@@chrisashlync.1302 Cant be done!
I’m interested in near death experiences and want them to be proof of afterlife not because of the “delusion of self clinging”, but because I want to be reunited with my lost loved ones.
We all do but sadly NDEs dont prove to us anything. They could be delusions of the brain the same way psychedelics and dreams affect us.
@@Yameen200 I go as far to say that it's 99.9% the case. There is simply no reason to conclude that any of these experiences are beyond the brain or whatever.
I had what is known as a shared death experience. So it’s definitely not hallucinations produced by a dying brain. I was in my backyard hauling gravel when unknown to me my father was dying hundreds of miles away. I was not drinking, I do not use drugs and I was not sleeping. I saw my father standing in my backyard...I watched a beautifully soft and colorful white light slowly come in. A being made of light inside this light spoke telepathically to me and said ...”I love him sooo much”. I love I was not familiar with. Parental, unconditional and eternal. It was grace. Next I was pulled into a life review and was shared a single memory of what I believe was a family picnic. I got a final goodbye. I came out of the life review as I was setting the wheelbarrow down. There is definitely something after this. You don’t have to believe me...we will all see this at the end. Be grateful. We are loved beyond measure. Loved so much that we are met and showered with love so as to not have any fear. I’m still in a state of trying to process this experience. I don’t fully understand how or why...but I am sure I will find answers someday.
@@grattata4364 Thats very close minded. It may well be that NDEs are real yet too distinct from physical reality to be of any proof to us. Consiousness is still very complex and there may be tons of things we havent figured out about it. However regarding NDEs people rely on this as proof of the afterlife. Seeing how limited they are & easily leaning towards hallucinations/dreams and way too inconsistent i dont see it as proof. Even if NDEs are real they are weak proof to the rest of us.
@@Yameen200 I don't think it's close minded at all. It's perfectly fine to assume that these experiences are normal properties belonging to the brain, when there's simply no alternative as an reliable option to consider. In fact, i think i was too generous with the number in favour for an afterlife.
I had an out of body experience in my twenties. For years I would get caught in a state between sleep and consciousness where I would hear this loud rushing in my ears, some times sounding like a choir, and I would be terrified. I’d fight against this feeling that paralyzed me until I could finally wrest myself awake. One day I told a friend about it and he said next time it happened just go with it… don’t try to wake up… don’t be scared and just give in. So the next time I did that, and it felt like rushing through a tunnel. Finally after a big crescendo, I felt like I was floating on a river. Everything was quiet and I felt at peace. I opened my eyes and I could see myself in bed as I was floating towards the dresser in my room. Then I shook my head to wake up was immediately back in bed. And ever since I never had that experience of being caught between sleep and consciousness ever again.
It's called dreaming sunshine
"Dreams are true - or a-p-p-e-a-r true, while they last.Can more be said of life?"Havelock Ellis.-
Thay us not consciousness or with_knoweledge(which is what consciousness means) that is dreaming Of course there are any number of reasons the most prominent of which is the single greatestest weakness, of men(human beings) which is to accept without question or believe. weakness of men(human beings) which is to accept without question or believe.
Now add to that their predisposition to believe what they *want*to believe.
Now add to those weakess some nonsense about good/ evil, morality/ethics and what you get is religion which is the most prominent reason for the degeneration of the psyche of men whether you call it religion or politics - they are*exactly* the same thing
It's actually called an out-of-body experience. I practiced the wake-up back-to-bed method for 5 months until I had an experience that was exactly like @zeitgeistyreport. It was more vivid and lucid than reality and totally different from a dream. I have been trying to repeat the experience but due to work and having kids I have been too busy and tired. @@vhawk1951kl
I once overheard a conversation between two people. Fist person: “ Do you believe in an afterlife?” Second person: “ Well. I got THIS life.”
Fascinating, so, or therefor what?
You heard that conversation did you?
so two fools listening to one another.
That is like saying do you believe in aliens and getting the reply well I have this glass of water. Only an imbecile would consider that answer either witty or wise.
"As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter.” Max Planck
Energy comes as waves of various frequencies and it can do two things in general, can interfere with waves from other sources or not, if frequencies are to different. And energy can transform to other forms of energies, can change frequency and interfere with other kinds of energy waves.
This means everything is energy, but energy itself is not a single substance, therefore different forms of energy are just as real as various materials and statement about everything being one thing is basically meaningless.
Life After Death - The Case of Pam Reynolds' NDE ruclips.net/video/HAZQyYEOLEQ/видео.html&feature=emb_logo
You appreciate that atoms are notional, merely supposed, or imaginary presumably.
When you use the word "science" what exactly are you seeking to convey when you use that word?
You have absolutely no idea, have you?
This you are about to demonstrate by signally failing to set out what you mean by science a word which you wave about as a bit worried magic wand
Atoms are imaginary in the strict sense of the word imaginary- cannot be directly immediately personally experience.
Do tell when you next directly immediately personally experience and atom qua atom.
Do you not understand that what you call atoms are notional- they are supposed or imagined or posited, but never ever evever directly immediately personally experienced *as* or qua atoms.
If you don't understand that you really *do* have a very nasty dose of religion(any set of related unquestioned beliefs assumption presumptions and (occasionally) norms.
Atoms have to be imagined to explain matter because men simply*assume*that all things are made of things, and not being able to experience what those things are they or a chap called Democrates invented little indivisible things to explain of what stuff or things are composed and he called them indivisibles, but you call them atoms, but they are still no more than notional posited or imagined- they are concept, and some concepts can be validated by experiment but that does not prevent them from being concepts or what is posited or i-m-a-g-i-n-e-d. God is an atom or lots of them and equally imaginary for god fits the definition of atom which is indivisible so just call toms indivisibles or gods but they do not thereby become capable of being directly immediately personally experienced or anything but imaginary. If you called them tiny mice it would come to the same thing, for you imagine posit or conceive of them as very small indivisibles(which you call atoms for short) why not just call the gods for short?
Would you call life is merely falling; when you are born or first will breath the embark upon the prizes identical in every possible respect to either jumping or being pushed from a very great height, and what you call life is merely falling, and the denser or heavier you are, the faster you fall and theimpact - the*inevitable*impact, is what you call” death” and if you ask me if there is any way you can become lighter reduce your mass, my answer is no; that is as impossible as not jumping or being pushed anyone who says there is life after landing or smashing into the adamant is what we call lying or not telling the truth. The idea that you could not land or hit the ground is simply fantasy. There can be no falling without landing- self evidently, and what you cll being bor is jumping or being pushed, and it follows as the night the day that if you wish to experience life or falling you must jump or be pushed, but there can beno falling without landing- no life without death which is simply the other end of the stick of jumping or beginning or being born.
There can be no beginning without ending, day without night, light without dark, that is just how it is, and Reason the capacity to or experience of apprehending or experiencing what *Is* and that means the*Whole of what is including the inevitability an landing or what-you-call dying although you have never died, but you cannot help looking down and seeing the ground which is not to say that you experience landing or death but only se that it is next- what you call that dream the future or simply the other end of the stick.
There can no more be any experiencing *After ** landing than there can be experiencing *Before* jumping.
What you call fear-of death is no more than the ordinary fear of falling when you look down, and refusing to look down, will not and*cannot* stop you falling, because there is no such thing as not falling. And no amount of hoping believing and fearing or dreaming can stop you falling, and the funny thing is you*Know* that, but you don’t much like knowing that, although not liking that or anything cannot change it.
The longer and faster you fall the more certain the landing or death, but then you already know that whether or not you like what you know
You would say that the adamant is adamant because there are no spaces between the gods(which are indivisible and omnipresent or at least that is how they are imagined for they can*only* be imagined)
Since you are imagining gods/atoms why not ascribe to them any other characteristics of god- omniscience and whatever the word for all-powerful is., since you can only imagine posit or assume them or their existence, which you have no choice but do, for you can no more not *believe_in *atomsthan you can not believ_in go(assume to exist) God. no harm in god but mister god is as silly as mister atom although both are equaly incapable of direct immediate personal experience or imaginary.
I know you hat the idea of gods/atom or gatoms being imaginary but they plainly are, because the fit the definition of imaginary in that they canot be directly immediately personally experienced (qua/as*atoms, as you can directly immediately personall experience pain which is an experience, but atoms*cannot* be experiences as pain is an experience which is why yoy creatures going in for passive automatic acceptance or belief because you cannot know or directly immediately personally experience.
Yo*have_to* or *must* imagine or believe in(there is no difference between the two) atoms - you simply have no choice.
OK if it pleases you all stuff or matter is made of Gods.
How might I verify(no acceptance allowed)that?
I have experience of you religious types or believers(positers or conceivers) and you get jolly angry if another questions what you simply*cannot* question , but do at least recognise that you simply *cannot* question or not passively accept gods/atoms(or anything else it is *impossible* for you to question..
Why not just accept that as what-is-and-cannot- be-different or true or a fact?
The thing about your gatoms is that they are like invisible aeroplanes (what savages call airplanes)- by*definition* they are invisible
Eben Alexander, a brain Surgeon in Virginia, wrote a book about his NDE. If I remember correctly, he met a sister during his experience that he never knew he had. Her existence was verified after his "return". There have been unexplained experiences reported over the years that have been verified, and I wonder how Ms. Blackmore would respond to these.
He merely*claimed* to have had what he supposed or guessed to have been a " near death" experience which only be fantasy because it is impossible to tell, discover or know whether or not one is " near"(how near is near?) death.
not only do mean tell deliberate untruths- lie, they are also very prone to being mistaken.
He could not possibly have any basis whatsoever for supposing that he was " near"(how near is near?) death, because no-one could. He may well have believed supposed or guessed what he was" near" to death, but it is a racing certainty that he was mistaken-he can*only* have been mistaken. A man cannot say that he was " near" omblidook when he has absolutely no experience whatsoever of omblidook, so that shoots the " near death experience" fox.
It is identical to those that claim to have " seen" Jesus when they could not possibly be able to recognise Jesus and exactly the same goes for death.
To describe such claims as nonsense and fantasy is to do a disservice to nonsense and fantasy. I met a chap once that clamed to have been kidnapped by Venusians, and yes, you guessed it he was insane. He had done too much acid and he was not the first person to have lost his reason after overdoing acid. Dreams and fantasies are true while they last. Can more be said of life?
Very often apparently sincere witnesses can be mistaken and anyone claiming to have been " near" death can only possibly be mistaken-for screamingly obvious reasons. I am well over 70 and thus*All* my experiences are " near death" experiences, but how " near" is near? If *all* experiences are " near death " experiences, *none* are.
You *believe*that?! The sister's existence was *verified* by who?If he had never met his 'sister', how could he possibly know that whoever he imagined he met was his sister?
Think for a moment, to ask that question is to answer it
Did he also have a " near" standing on his own shoulders experience?
these lying psychopathic fantasists will say anything to get attention.
If a mean tells you that he " nearly" stood on his own shoulders you know*For-a*certainty* that he is either lying mad or stupid, and if you don't you are a fool.
Some are born credulous and some do not have t the wits to doubt. Into which group do you fall? How do you know he is not lying?
Who told you that ere have been unexplained experiences reported over the years that have been verified, and why do you believe them? Near(how near?)death experiences are no more possible than near eating your own head experiences
That AWARE study did report of one example of an veridical OBE , and Miss Blackmore does not describe other significant findings from the AWARE study truthfully here.
Such as the clear statement from Dr. Parnia that a person can have coignitive experiences in cases when both the heart and the brain flatlines....
Alex tsarsis from the channel skeptiko had this woman on his show and she told him she didn't do any research on near death studies then a month later done a talk on a panel about ndes ,he said she blatantly lied and he has it all on his channel ,his last stream he rips her apart with her lies,I'm no good on computers so I don't know how to leave a link ,if yer check it out what's your opinion ,thanks .
@@dogsbollox4335 Thank you for your good reply!
One might wonder where the real motivation lies behind such ignorant and deterministic statements about the alternative of nothingness, which she dont know anything about!!!.
Stian ,exactly mate ,see most of these sceptics won't research the evidence because they can't believe anything supernatural can exist in there closed minded brains so why look at the evidence ,and ndes are just one bit of the jigsaw ,what about kids past lives ,psi ,obes,paranormal ,mediums and plenty more ,and then could it all another dimension like dark matter ,quantum theories ,it's a connection and someone cleverer than me Will make more sense but what I'm saying it's a mysterious world and what do we really know ,hope your good ,thanks mate .
@@dogsbollox4335 I can tell you that Dean Radin has demonstrated mind over matter and telepathy in his lab with sigma 7
significance, there is really no doubt in this matter!
Yeah I read some of Dean radins work ,what do you think of hameroff and penroses theory ,I think it's about conscious agents ,I like Donald Hoffman too.
In my NSE (near death exp.) my entire past flashed before my memory and at once I knew that if the right physics didn’t align to my advantage (my continued survival), my perceived future experience would presently collapse into instant oblivion. As a human, I came away learning about the value of life and the fear of death.
All is the past,
the present is a moment,
the future is a mystery.
It's the words of the Near-death experiencers themselves against the words of people who are merely speculating on others' experiences. These NDE'rs have actually experienced how it is to be on the 0ther Side and they can compare it with their experience on the physical plane.
And almost all of them attest to the fact that the Other Side is more real, more vivid, more significant than anything they have ever experienced on the physical plane.
They have actually experienced a non-physical plane of existence where time and space are totally different, where love and joy are the dominant realities, and where they feel like coming or returning to their true home.
No one is doubting that people experience NDEs. However, the question is whether they are the product of a dying brain or something real. IMO it is much more likely to be an hallucination than an actual event.
The problem with NDEs is that people can experience more real vivid experiences during psychedelics as well as vivid dreams. I have from experience had dreams that felt more emotional than real life dreams where you would wake up crying with a bittersweet longing in you. That doesnt mean theres anything spiritual so why think NDEs are spiritual.
@@chrismathis4162 "IMO it is much more likely to be an hallucination than an actual event." You surely know something I don't.
@@hadeseye2297 It is much more likely, because we have proof that the brain is capable of creating experiences, and no proof whatsoever of the experience being anything beyond our brain. See the difference?
@@grattata4364 "and no proof whatsoever of the experience being anything beyond our brain" There are living beings - animals or plants - without a brain. A good question would be: Do such beings have experiences, or not? If yes then experience doesn't have to be brain based.
In any case, you can say that moment of death is absolutely horrific, the total fear, feels like falling, but then a nice and warm and a fantastic feeling! Who feels that don't want to go back to life, because life is cold and grey compared to this feeling!
And exactly how many moments of death have you experienced?
Yeah, right. You certainly have a very vivid imagination
The*Only* way to discover what is to die and that is a bourne from which no man returns to quote hamlet.There is only one possible way to discover whether or not you are " near"(and how near is near?)to death, and that is to die have died. As the Australian said when asked at Gallipoli if he had come to die, no mate I came yesterdie.
If you have never died how could possibly tell that you were " near" to death?
To ask that question is to answer it, thus these famous and imaginary NDEs are just that- imaginary- They could not possibly be anything but imaginary. You cannot get nearer to death than being alive, thus if everything is a NDE nothing is QED.
jJust by the by, does anyone report a near *Life* experience?
No- so there you go then- no such thing as NDEs
You could*Only*say that if you have some experience of dying, and self-evidently no-one has or they did not die. The process of dying could perhaps(there is no way of knowing) be either pleasant or unpleasant, but one thing is absolutely *Certain*:If it was either it was not, nor could it possibly be, dying or death which means(and can only possibly mean) nothing to experience pleasantness or unpleasantness. In short: If you are in any position to say that was pleasant or unpleasant what you experienced could not possibly be death or dying- which either means the cessation of*All* awareness(knowing or consciousness which simply means knowing or it means*Nothing*. If there is no knower it follows aa the night the day that nothing can be known.
That is what death*Means* - *No knower - no-one to know be aware or experience with_knowledge or consciousness, or in baby talk:Death means no present before or after, for for it does not, it is *not* death. You doubt me? go and have a chat with a corpse It is as absurd as it is irrational to be afraid of something of which one has had no experience. Self evidently one cannot simultaneously be dead and*know* or be aware that, one is dead; if you are dead and know it you are*not* (and cannot be) not dead. Res ipsa loquitur. It is simple stupidity to be afraid of that ofwhich you have no experience,
There*Are* no( and could not possibly be) any " near death experiences" for the childishly simple reason that it is wholly*Impossible* to determine whether or not one is " near"(how near is near?) death
Anyone that supposes or imagines that he is "near" death" can only *possibly* be mistaken.
What exactly is your evidence for that proposition?
Yeah right you have no evidence whatsoever for that proposition because you have never died and lived to tell the tale for screamingly obvious reasons
fantastic being the word, since it means the stuff of fantasy. *You* can only speak of the moment of death when you have experienced it which sadly has yet to occur, but hope springs eternal in the breasts of those that hope for fewer halfwits in this world.
Good discussion. Thanks
It is merely pouring from the empty into the void.
I had a unicorn in the back of my cab once and he told me that the fairies had told him to stand on his own shoulders.
Get the idea, or do you suggest that none are liars none mistaken and none insane?
For some insane religious reason you will tie yourself inknots to preven yourself from recognising psychopathic liars when you encounter them or hear of their claims.
It is remarkably simple:So-called " near" deatnh experiences are no more possible than " near" standing on your own shoulders experiences are possible.
How come that is not plain to you?
Not only do many lie and seek to deceive, there are many that lie to, and seek to deceive, *themselves*
There are indeed more things in heaven and earth than men dream of in their philosophies but near standing on you own shoulders is n not not not amongst them.
Clear now?Such poor sad creatures as imagine that they have had what-they-call " near death expeiences can only possibly be mad lying or simply mistaken.
Is it possible that they are or might be mistaken?
To ask that question is to answer it- Don't be so soft!
They should be called ‘Clinical death experiences’ if their vital signs have monitoring systems measuring them such as during surgery - once brain activity ceases and the heart is stopped, and they are then subsequently resuscitated and can recount out of body experiences during that time, it’s very hard to refute that consciousness can transcend physical death - for at least the time they were ‘gone’
I use to think NDEs were produced by the dying brain until I had a shared death experience.
WheelieBinMonster ...shared death experience is the term I found online. The short version: This past June while I was helping move gravel in my backyard...my father appeared under my maple tree...in the middle of the afternoon while he was dying hundreds of miles away. His back was facing me...and a beautiful soft light was coming in from his left and as it moved in...I saw something moving in it. It was indescribably beautiful. I actually said that I wish I had a camera. There was a being made of light inside the light...but I had trouble making it out...it’s as if it was the light or part of it. Anyway, it reached out and touched my father’s shoulder and telepathically spoke to me ...”I love him soooo much”. It was a love unknown to me. Parental in nature and unconditional and eternal. As I was focusing on the light...I was instantly in the middle of a sphere of energy and inside this white static sphere there were windows of memories being played in real time...I was shared a single memory of a picnic before my physical vision was being blotted back in. I was putting down the wheelbarrow. It’s as if I was in 2 places at the same time. One part of me was moving the wheelbarrow across the yard and another was observing a heavenly event. I believe my spirit may have been pulled from my body to help my father in his transition to heaven. I do not drink. I do not do drugs. I was not asleep. This literally happened to me as I was walking a wheelbarrow. Since that day I have been non stop researching and I came across the term shared death experience. It has helped me understand that I am not alone in this experience. I have a million more questions than answers. But from what I am reading, an NDE is similar in nature. Except...I wasn’t the person dying. It has been the most profound experience of my entire life. There is a God and there is something after we leave here. We do not die...our body does...but we . We are loved beyond our comprehension. I believe we are here to bring the light of God into this dark place. God is love. Love each other to the best of our ability.
@@kathleenturner7138 wow what an experience! Naturally according to this lady you had a “ heat stroke 🥵 attack “
7:00 - listen to the disdain in her voice! “ SHOW ME! SHOW ME! “ sad
@@lucidmonkey3591 ...I considered that but I felt perfectly fine. As a matter of fact I had so much energy that day I exceeded my husband’s expectations with the physical labor of yard work. To see what I saw...along with commentary and communication? The level of detail? In the fullness of the day. I was not asleep. I would think if I had a heat stroke I would have gotten sick or passed out. Afterwards I sat on the patio and said to myself...something just happened...what happened? I felt heavy and I felt a burden Remember I did not know my father was dying at that time. Not one day has gone by that I don’t think about what happened. But as I said, I was awake. I was not drinking. I do not do drugs. I did not get sick afterwards either. I didn’t understand what I saw and so I eventually just continued to work in the yard...later I found out my father passed away at that same time and it all rushed back to me. There were small other things that occurred that day....earlier. One of these days I am going to write down every detail of the day. I don’t know how or why I was able to see what I saw. It’s kinda turned my life upside down emotionally. But I see things in this world differently. Thanks for taking the time to listen to my experience.
@@kathleenturner7138 The memory of a picnic, was it your memory, or your father's, or a shared (and thus extra happy) memory?
The important thing about NDEs for me is seemingly being outside of the body and going to another room then 'coming back to life' and being able to verify what was said and being done by others in those places.
Local verifiable proof involving the doctors and nurses, friends and relatives at that time.
Now we have many accounts of professional people having NDEs with reputations to protect.
These experiences remain crystal clear in the minds of the NDE-er while all other memories slowly fade.
The bright light, the tunnel, the life review and everything else mean absolutely nothing if the first part wasn't true but the local verifiable proof is very compelling.
What about shared death experiences, SDEs?
My partner has had 2 NDEs and she's convinced there is more to our existence than what we can physically see and hear!
Why your partner and not many others !!
Could it be because they want to delude themselves into belief ?
@@Yameen200 That's a silly question. You could as well ask: Why Mr. X won in lottery and not many others? Or, why did I broke my leg and not him?
It's possible with the many words quantum interpretation
@@hadeseye2297 Its not a silly question at all , If NDES are ACTUAL spiritual experiences beyond brain then why dont many others who reach near death experience it. many have had near fatal accidents and report nothing of this sort. Further studies show that people who are more prone to fantasy thinking are more likely to believe NDEs are spiritual experiences. Further many similarities there are between NDEs and psychedelic experiences. I can also say from experience that ive had very strong dreams that are highly emotional more so than real life, where you could wake up feeling great longing and tear up. I know its just a dream so the point is these natural phenomena show NDEs may well be some sort of dream/hallucination experience.
Then there are the other theological problems where NDE proponents tend to form a new age religion where God is love, etc. Some will claim heaven and hell exists, some none of this, some reincarnation, some that all religion is irrelevant. Everyone has an agenda. Further everyones experience is shaped by their culture or religion. The similar traits such as tunnel, feeling love, etc could well be due to similar brain chemistry we all share and suppressed the core desires of our psyche.
@@Yameen200 There are hundreds of thousands of NDE accounts from people in all walks of life. You only have to look for them (I always take out any religious aspect). Science cannot prove what consciousness actually is yet and there are many studies ongoing regarding this particularly as there are scientists and doctors who have had their own NDEs.
Nobody's suggesting fairies at the bottom of the garden but just keep an open mind.
Gotta love the way Susan Blackmore manages to expand her drug induced experience some years ago to incorporate just about everything a person could experience. Not content with using the experience to somehow dismiss out of body experiences....now all of a sudden she's putting it on par with NDEs as if what she experienced was one ( even though she has never claimed so for years after ) and she's therefore an authority on them.
Yes, despite wanting to seem "open" it seems to me Blackmore is deeply underplaying some extraordinary testimonies from medics and non-medics about NDEs. If you listen to Jeff Olsen and his doctor Jeff O Driscoll, or to Sabine Mehne, or to Dr Oliver Lazar, or to Elizabeth Krohn? I don't see how these experiences can be explained as splurts of neuro transmitter in an organ that is severely malfunctioning.... I know I'm not a doctor, (I never really bothered, as Tony Hancock put it) - -What's that area of the brain that Blackmore claims can account for viewing the body from outside .. really?? Read about Frau Krohn looking at her lightning-struck body from some distance away and noticing the burned soles of her own feet...if a "brain" can do this, then why aren't armed forces making use of this handy trick the brain has up its sleeve? (Of course, maybe they are, I suppose that's secret.. ) Take a look at Thanatos TV.
Consider for but a moment; how might anyone know tell or discover that they were " near" (how near is near?) death?
For goodness sake apply you mind for but one moment and address that question.
The moment that you turn your mind to the question does not the answer become immediately apparent?
@@vhawk1951kl No....I don't do questions people don't answer themselves.
All rational beings dismiss claims of so-called out of body experiences as no more than dreams, because that is exactly what they are-screeeeeeeeeaaamingly obviously.
It is remarkably simple, those claiming to have had near death or out of body experiences are *Lying*
Not only are people often mistaken they equally often *Lie* both to themselves an others.
In my opinion. Your self/consciousness, evolves through sight ,feel and all the time needed to build a state where we are as adults.
So consciousness is brought about by everything around us.
Drawn together. Like gravation.
So our minds are built with a gravitating flow of information along with intention.
What you see with your eyes is what consciousness. Is.
I had one out of body experience in my life shortly after an episode of sleep paralysis. While it felt absolutely real that doesn’t mean it was. I still believe it’s just in the brain. That doesn’t mean it’s not powerful and fascinating though.
I claim no special knowledge however when it comes to phenomena like NDEs I think of the many serious scientists who see even more bizarre hypothesises as plausible. Just a few days ago Dr. Kuhn interviewed Dr Sean Carroll. During that interview Dr Carroll expressed his opinion that the “many worlds” interpretation of reality may indeed be reality. Dr Kuhn (and myself) find the many worlds interpretation to be incomprehensibly weird - but Dr Carroll is highly regarded and his opinion indicates that I need to do further thinking on the subject. That being said, on a scale of 1 to 10 on “wierdness” I’d give NDEs a 3 and “many worlds” a solid 10.
Yes I saw that and agree. The Everett model is utterly mind boggling and I really don't think those who dismiss "materialism" or "naturalism" have any idea of what they are rejecting. My own reaction is a constant "But... but... but... no surely not... how can that possibly be????"
Similarly Roger Penrose's interview with Lex Fridman is wonderful for the beauty and wonder and mystery that the scientific approach can produce.
@@martifingers Sir Roger is amazing on so many levels! He is 89 years old and still making important contributions!
Amen
So, the Many Worlds interpretation of quantum super positions is weirder than the Copenhagen interpretation? I personally don’t think so. But I will say , Sean’s book, Something Deeply Hidden is pretty convincing. My understanding is that the largest plurality of theoretical physicists choose the Many Worlds. Quantum mechanics is just so counterintuitive.
"World" for who?
You have no idea what you mean by "world",
Many years ago. I had a NDE. I want to make it abundantly clear that this was not religious or holey moley. There weren't any bible verses or anything like this. But it was very calm and peaceful and extremely pleasant. This experience was so incredibly beautiful that I embraced what I encountered. I guess it would be fair to say this was a otherworldly experience.
what did you saw?
Really how did you know you were(whatever you mean by)" near", death?
You could be moments away from your(for yourself) destruction forever ant any moment of any day; how near is near? Very near, quite near or dead?
You see, your associative apparatus or mind, plays tricks on you.
You may convince or deceive yourself, but no me, chum.
It is not a question of what experiences you have, but how you*interpret* them-invariably long after the event.
You follow?
@@vhawk1951kl who knows might actually be real since most people experience remote viewing when near death
Really, exactly how were you able to tell that you were " near death"?
Any chance you might have been mistaken?
@@vhawk1951kl Who knows we'll all find out someday
Im curious what they actually can test when they talk about no activity in the brain. Electrical activity ? Does that include chemical activity ? Is there a type of activity we cant measure ? I would love to have the whole story on this before i make my mind up on NDE experiences.
There are thousands of cases where the person came back with accurate information they shouldn't have known. There have been blind who could see and deaf that could hear. She's ignorant of the details of ndes and acting like she knows what she's talking about.
Who told you that there are thousands of cases where the person came back with accurate information, and why do you believe them? There is certainly no shortage of lunatics and pathological liars such as those that make fantastic and clearly mistaken claims such as having had near death experiences or having been kidnapped by Venusians- liars and madmen are a penny a pound and clearly credulous imbecile children even more common.
Scientists too often position themselves as experts on what can be and what cannot be, but this is not good science. Science is a system of thought and methods that works to explain the behavior of things observed by discovering and quantifying underlying causes. This is done first by applying what has previously been understood but not by claiming to understand the causes of all things. It is also a problem thinking that because certain things obey certain laws that then all things obey these same laws. A further error is in fact to say that things obey laws, as if there is a lawgiver and scientists are the judges, and sometimes like the police. It makes better sense to say that scientific laws follow on what is experienced and observed, making things the reality and the quantification of their behavior secondary. That way we are more open to discovery rather than waiting with religious like zealotry to enforce the “truth.”
The word "science" stems from the latin infinitive sciere- to*Know* and so do all words with scio in them such as conscious and conscience.
The question is do those that*call* themselves "scientists" actually*Know*anything or even what it means to know?*Knowledge* is a function of Being, which is a quality of which there can be more or less.
@@vhawk1951kl I would really enjoy it if you would elaborate on the idea of Being as a quality:)
More accurately those *claiming* to be scientists- and who cannot do that?
Any fool can*claim* to be a scientist , just as a number of fools *claim* to have had near death experiences, but they areprobably possibly liars, and fantasists, or just good old-fashioned mistaken. In fact they can*Only* be mistaken for screamingly obvious reasons. There is not the shadow of a doubt about that
There are a variety of species of impossibility and the most impossible of all is definitional impossibility- for example it is impossible for the ace of trumps to be beaten by any other card -or, if you like, for there two be more that one universe and those because trump means unbeatable and universe means only *one*-by definition. If you wish to posit*more* than one universe you will have to re-define universe.
Waving the word" science" about as if it were a magic wand has nothing to do with definitional or axiomatic impossibility. There are practical impossibilities(such as standing on your own shoulders or jumping over your own knees) conceptual impossibilities (for example more than one universe) and definitional impossibilities(for example being ware that you are dead or even" near" dead)Absolute impossibility embraces the other two.
@@morphixnm It's something you have to experience I can no more give you any idea of what being is that I can can fill you with bread by looking at you
As someone who consumes psilocybin mushrooms once/twice a year, the experience of people who had NDE's sound very familiar to what I experience at the height of my trip. The tunnel, the people, the light, the oneness, the acceptance, it's all there. It's a beautiful state of mind and afterwards you feel reborn.
(no worries, legal in my country)
If you have never experienced Omblidook, how could you possibly tell whether or not you were dear Omblidook?
Are you beginning to get the idea?
All this nonsensical babble about near death experiences is simply fantasy or imagination that it could not possibly be anything but fantasy and imagination. If you have never been dead, how could you possibly know that you were open near" to death?
He lied, Knowing very well that he was lying
That is ex post facto reconstruction or what is called dreaming.
What could "eel reborn" possibly mean?
It can only be some sort of simile can it not?
You can no more experience being born-and tell the tale than you can experiences excact ooposite dying - and tell the tale.
How can you " feel" re born or born again when you have to experience or recollection of being born?
Is not the truth of the matter that you suppose or imagine one experience to be*similar* to another, yet you have no possible basis for comparison. You cannot say that you experience being bor*again* when you have no experience of being born in the first place.
But perhaps you were only using an approximation or figure of speech..
Those that abuse narcotics are invariably desperate to* justify that abuse- presumably to themselves- you are , in effect saying ":I'm not such a bad chap am I?"
That or you want to swank about using narcotics effectively saying: "See how clever or daring is this mouse that uses psilocybin.
Or does it use him?
Justification is clearly an enormously powerful God which must be worshipped(means valued) and propitiated at all costs
Hve you had a " near" standing on your own shoulders experience when stupefied by narcotics.
Men (human beings are so easily deceived and easily deceive themselves as for example men supposing them selves to be women or perhaps pots of geraniums, there being no difference between a man supposing himself to be a woman and a man supposing himself to be a pot of geraniums, or nearly dead or nearly standing on his own shoulders for that matter.
Good interview. The issue is that, when you clinically dead, you are impotent in the real world. At that point, your inner experience is all of your reality. I will be delighted if, when I die, I get the bright tunnel and sense of oneness, unconditional love and okayness. At that point dreams are your reality and reality is like a dream to you. It's not that NDEs are ontically true but, at the end point, only subjectivity matters.
I forget the name of a doctor from Holland whose NDE research was published in Lancet; although on the out of body experience I’m leaning to agree with Susan, that guy’s research was peer reviewed etc.?
Thank you for this conversation. So, you get a lot of criticism for not taking NDEs seriously ... well, maybe there is a grain of truth in that criticism. Instead of getting Susan Blackmore to mockingly explain away one ill-documented case, how about taking the bull by the horns and talking to the authors of "The Self Does Not Die" where there are *plenty* of anomalous narratives and also consult Jan Holden and perhaps more authorities on so-called AVP:s (apparently veridical perceptions). I am a *great* fan of "Closer To Truth" but I have always been bothered by this blind spot and whatever explanation these anomalous experiences get, I believe that just mocking/ignoring/downplaying these experiences will not contribute to getting us closer to truth. Thank you very much for your continued work, you are one of the best! (PS Penny Sartori would also be worth speaking with. PPS And Laurin Bellg who also has a non-partisan approach to understanding these experiences. Sue disliked the partisan quality ("heaven exclusive or science") very much as she mentioned in the interview.)
To to skeptikos last video where he mentions that he had Susan blackmore on his show and she blatantly lied to him over near death studies ,just watch that one video on skeptiko s channel ,it's his most recent stream .
Yes ,I think he can't see his bias to philosofical materialism/physicalism ,but he's changing slowly ,but he's changing
@@dogsbollox4335 skeptico channel = ( materialism worldview ) ,just one biased guy towards materialism.
Marcos the person I'm on about isn't a materialist ,I know his channel name is confusing but he says he had Susan blackmore on his channel and she blatantly lied about near death studies .
@@marcosgalvao3182 ruclips.net/video/SZ1nOiwHlLI/видео.html Alex Tsakiris is doing the interview on Skeptiko, I think he comes on a bit too strong sometimes but he is definitely not a materialist actually. I think he named the channel "Skeptiko" in an effort to try to reclaim the word "Skeptic".
I can tell you for an absolute fact we continue on in our spirit body which has heightened senses, this world is temporary
I've had many spiritual experiences, the brain does not 'produce' consciousness, it is a receiver of it
Thanks for sharing, I agree! It's my best bet aswell. I celebrate your certainty. It's something you really have to grokk from experience tbh
@@liamnewsom8583 thats right, its not 'one thing' but many things and dedication to the supernatural, I've had a very hard life, so i've had to rely on spiritual things, after 2 weeks of having the picture of a woman who died by suicide as my desktop image, I started to feel someone press down on my bed, over time this ramped up to the point where she will move my body, so I thought i'd go along with it and let her make me dance, I have videos on my channel
The moment the 'tennis shoe' story is brought up as a debunking tool i know instantly that the person using that little story has given up.
Thank you.
my pleasure, but it is only good sense, and pretty obvious.
Interesting topic. The experiment of which she mentioned at the end of the conversation apparently ran into a number of obstacles, including, but not limited to liability, ethical, hospital protocols, and the like. But I did read,.the experiment was to place a LED sign in red light letters, above the working patient table, say on top of a case of some sort, but lower than the ceiling, and which spelled a simple word such as "elephant", thereby, the patient upon returning to Consciousness from say cardiac arrest, would recite or later recall the word from their NDE experience
Well, unfortunately, not one single person having their out of body experience, hoovering say over the room ever recalled seeing bright red letters, the word....bummer!
I used to be very interested in finding out the truth of NDEs, but i realized its pointless. Even if NDEs are real spiritual experiences they are mere ancedotes that cannot prove anything to us. I prefer philosophy and scientific thinking as a means to gauge the possibilities of afterlife.
@@Yameen200 Mere " anecdotes " ?? " Mere " ?? Really? Every doctors visit you went to relied on anecdotes that led to a diagnosis or preliminary diagnosis...and even drugs you may have been prescribed which you very likely swallowed. Every police sketch of a criminal relies on anecdotal evidence...descriptions. Anecdotal evidence is DATA. It's subjective data.
Because it has been realized to be a poor method of research. What has been realized is that people who have had NDEs have said the would pop out of their bodies and then FOCUS mostly on the emotions of the people in the room at the time of the incident and on looking down at their own body.....NOT up at a piece of equipment way over the bed, or at a screen up near the ceiling.
@@philosopher0076 Those diagnosis and drugs must be replicated with significant sample sizes and repetitions to validate it as not *mere anecdotes* Nobodys keen to take a drug unless they have enough data that is statistically significant.
This is not possible with NDEs which cannot be replicated and and deduced by external observers. It remains mere subjective experience the same way i and 10 other ppl may claim to have seen a red and green tentacled humanoid alien which we cannot replicate and make deductions.
Further NDE individual accounts are inconsistent and contradictory with each other and with the key religious beliefs ie some see jesus, some angels, some a light and some claim a celtic deity.
NDE researchers rely on every NDE reporting similiar traits as bruce greyson has designed the 16 trait NDE scale.
But even then this doesnt have to suggest supernatural experience. Perhaps the naturalistic explanations have not been good enough but this doesnt discount future naturalistic explanations that may solve the issue.
I was fairly certain that sooner or later somebody would bring religion or what you call ethics into it
Imagine this... below left is the whole universe, to the right is some light, just light shapes, not angels (I am a scientist, I boldly looked closely!)... a feeling of euphoria comes over you at first because you think the angels must be awesome to be above that amazing universe... then a frightening decision comes upon you... do I let go of the universe and go with the angels / light or do I go back down? Well?...
I told the angels / light, if I come with you, we'll lose the incredible universe and I am upset that I have to leave my family, do you want that? I turned to the angels / light, the light switched off and a rush of sound came in my ears. I was laying face down in mud... I was back! [I then made my way to hospital, the rest is history].
Can you" imagine" standing on your own shoulders?
There you go then.
How do you know that to whatever you are referring is " the universe"?
That was a nasty bang on the head you had there Napoleon. Bad luck about waterloo what?
How about the ones that were clinically brain dead
As for her evidence of "knowing things they couldn't possibly know" she brings up one case that's not that well known and sites nothing... yet there's plenty of stories and some from reputable doctors.
There are blind people from birth that has visual sensation and visions during nde so can not be alucinations .
Who told you that and why do you believe them?
@@vhawk1951kl there are studies that probes. People blind by birth with no any image in mind but has visions during nde .Kennet Ring has a book about the matter. Sure are not alucinations.
Who told you that and why do you believe them? It cannot possibly be true.
@@marioceva7163 Who told you that and why do you believe them? It is obvious lies.Do try not to be so credulous
@@vhawk1951kl are you and expert about the matter? Please tell me what books has you read about NDE?
7:00 "Show me!" Ok, I'll show you: the anecdotal evidence of experiencers from the US and the UK who, during their NDEs, learn of the deaths of siblings. (See, e.g., Dr. Greyson 11:22 (length of RUclips video), case of "Eddie", who, upon awakening from a meningitis coma, claimed that he was just in Heaven with deceased relatives--including his sister, Theresa, who was thought to still be alive. Nonetheless, she in fact did die just a few hours earlier in the evening in an auto accident, as yet unbeknownst to EVERYONE in his presence in his hospital room.) There are many more such anecdotes.
Alan Burch the problem with these anecdotes is that they are just it - anecdotes.... Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Uninvestigated or under-investigated stories don't came anywhere near this requirement. There are good reasons why witness testimonials are the least credible scientific evidence - humans are predictively bad witnesses and subject to all sorts of biases
@@cezaryzajac9072 Then read the Pam Reynolds case: she was hooked up to monitors--the kind that Neuro-Surgeons use--while they emptied all of the blood out of her brain and stopped her heart from beating. Then they cooled her down to 58F. Then they operated on her cerebral aneurysm. At this same time--while both her brain and heart were flatlined--Pam's Mind/Consciousness left her body and recorded her operation, details of which she later remembered and told the doctors, such as the unusual type of saw they used on her skull, which she could not possibly have seen, because her eyes were taped shut and she had no blood in her brain or heart at the time they used it.
@@cezaryzajac9072 Anecdotes by board-certified physicians must be taken seriously.
@@bluewater3783Sure, cause board-certified physicians never have an ideological agenda… Anecdotal evidence always remains an anecdotal evidence. No level of authority changes that.
There have been a lot of well and not-so-well designed objective experiments to test all sorts of psi abilities (OBE, telepathy and so on) and somehow they always come back without significant or replicable findings.
@@cezaryzajac9072 And the Pam Reynolds case? Maybe you're not an objective "sceptic" but instead a cynical "Debunker" who will not accept ANY evidence. Which are you? I don't waste my time with "Debunkers"...
Very interesting ❤
Not Susan Blackmore out of all the people you could’ve interviewed about this 💀
Near death experiences proof that consciousness is immortal , indestrutive , the base of all reality .
It's no proof whatsoever. The brain alone is likely creating all these experiences.
@@grattata4364 materialism is baloney
One fatline brain can't do nothing .
@@marcosgalvao3182 Your thinking is baloney and fallacious. You have no way of verifying if the experience took place before the person was flat lined, or after he/she got resucitatet, instead of it taking place when it was flat lined.
@@grattata4364 it's not just baloney ,it's nonsense ,you can't have (qualia) if reality is just "matter" .
I know it's seems strange , but reality is strange , consciousness is the base of all reality .
Consciousness of what? Unless you specify that, all talk of consciousness is empty blather
What you mean by "consciousness"?You might as easily say that stuff is the basis of all reality
Whose reality? if you have pain it is real to you but no-one else, so whose reality?
Dreams are true while they last. Can more be said of life?
DEBATE! Please debate Bruce Greyson. That’s how I learn. Let him respond! I’m calling for a RUclips debate. We want to hear from both of you!!!
been a long time since Ive heard someone say as many words without saying anything
NDE is closest thing to prove that there is more to world than just physical
And that equals zero proof.
Maybe it's closer to the unification of physical and nonphysical to just one reality
@Stefano Portoghesi How on Earth subconscious can work when one is flat brained? How it can happen when there is no oxygen coming into the brain?
@@hadeseye2297 You have no way to verify when the experience took place. It's most likely just after the person gets revived. Or it could be before the heart of the person stopped. Secondly, we don't know everything about the brain yet, and how long it may be able to create hallicunations after a person gets flat lined. There is NO reason at all to conclude that these experiences aren't a product of the brain itself.
@@grattata4364 OK. I get your point. But can you prove it doesn't happen before, between and after? That's a linear experience? Most likely doesn't equal: it works like this ... .
Oh... yeah, Susan Blackmore is the right person to answer this question.
SB is an attention w......., she never present objectives, she is trying to sell nothingness as an alternative to the everything alternative, that we know little but something about.
What kind of proof of the existence of the 'other world' could be valid and solid enough, so that it could not be questioned by scientific methods? Can there be a scientific proof of something that by definition can not be 'measured' by science? What else can neuroscience tell us, apart from what's going on the brain during NDE? Can it tell us when, to whom and why does NDEs happen?
Depends on what you mean by" world" does it not?
When you use the term "other world" what exactly are you trying to convey? - Whose "other world"?
Suppose someone told you that they had stood on their own shoulders would you believe them? You are not being practical about this you are dreaming
First define other world.
If you define other world as eggs proving other world or eggs is child's play.
you don't have a degree do you and yes it is that obvious.
If you define other world as anything that appears blue, you need but look at the sky and behold the other world, but face facts:
What you call life is merely falling; when you are born or first will breath the embark upon the prizes identical in every possible respect to either jumping or being pushed from a very great height, and what you call life is merely falling, and the denser or heavier you are, the faster you fall and the more fatal the impact - the*inevitable*impact, and if you ask me if there is any way you can become lighter reduce your mass, my answer is no; that is as impossible as not jumping or being pushed anyone who says there is life after landing or smashing into the adamant is what we call lying or not telling the truth. The idea that you could not land or hit the ground is simply fantasy.
There is life after death, it's just not our own. Think of how many people have lived and died before us, and jet here we are conscious and kicking. When we think about the ones who came before us, they become us and we become them. Our lives are a tribute to the ones before us, we are all connected, and we are one life form. When you think of it this way, there is life after death, maybe just not in the traditional way many people think.
This is just my early Sunday thoughts with regards to this video. Susan Blackmore cannot define what is consciousness, space and time and She jumps to a conclusion that might be wrong. What happens if the mind of the dying person goes to a non-local state during the NDE? Is the non-local state the same non-locality for all NDEs? if it is yes ( there is only one non local state) people with NDEs are interconnected without matter when the NDE experience happens in time. This means if a person in the past had an NDE, another right now and another in the future all three share the same non-local state and might interact one with each other beyond space and time.
In a previous Closer to Truth video immortality can be considered as beyond space and time. If extended this idea that NDEs share the same non-local state, all mankind is interconnected in this non-local state. The brain may be the creator of consciousness, however if it transients to a non-local state, conciseness can persist in this non local state even if the brain has ceased to exist, Is this not what people call immortality? I believe the study of consciousness should include a mind which is local and non-local at the same time. Regards William
she merelry points out the impossible; it is no more possible to have a near death experience than it is possible to have a near standing on your own shoulders expeience, which shows she has good sense.
Consider for but a moment; how might anyone know tell or discover that they were " near" (how near is near?) death?
Suppose they claim to have had a near seeing a square circle(or any other conceptual impossibility)experience, wherein lies the difference between that an claiming to have had a near death experience?-Both are equally impossible and identical implausible and no less implausible that claiming to have seen a square circle; they key is impossibility whether conceptual
And no more can you define them or in any even do not seek to try..
Define love, or sorrow.
Beginning to get the idea? Experiences can no more be defined than unfocussed photographs can be focused .
What one doubts about claims of having had near death experiences is not whether or not the experience took place but rather the veracity accuracy and sanity of the one making the claim. If the claimant were an instrument had it been properly calibrated, for example a thermometer at the south pole giving a reading of 70 degrees. You know for a *certainty* that it could not be, and never has been 70F at the south pole so there *must* be something wrong with the thermometer- you follow? My be not, in which case I am wasting my time
Put the case that X claims to have seen fairies training unicorns to eat their own heads and the unicorns not only doing so but also eating square circles. while standing on 8sided triangles
Might you even*Begin* to contemplate that in X you have a sane accurate witness as to fact?
There can no more be a near death experience than there can be a near standing on your own shoulders experiences but if you cannot understand that, none can help you
I think Susan Blackmore's approach is excellent. What she said about this divide between believers/non-believers of NDE's is absolutely spot on, one shouldn't berate/glorify either side. It's about finding the truth, which, in all likelihood (as she suggests), is much more complicated than either side of this dualism. She's obviously done an enormous amount of research on the matter and is even familiar with the experience herself -- so no bias from ignorance! The elimination of self that she talked about is a very interesting finding due to its consistency with our understanding of physics. I look forward to new findings in the future. Also, I realise this topic is heavily polarised due to the direct impact it has on ourselves, our purpose and our 'futures', however, I urge everyone to live life to the fullest and know that whatever death entails, we won't be the first to experience it or the last... it's a natural process and one we shouldn't be frightened of.
If you have never been dead how would you know that you were nearly dead?
It is nonsense to speak of being nearly dead there is no way of telling
In the words of sherlock Holmes:"If you rule out the impossible, then what is left - however unpalatable or improbable can only be the truth.
Since " near" death experiences are wholly*impossible* it follows from that that those that supposed themselves to have been " near" death, can only possibly be mistaken QED.
Mistaken is all that is left
It is absolutely shameful that some sneer and disbelieve when I tell them how many fairies I have seen training unicorns to eat their own heads
Is it not plain to you that if someone claims to have had a near eating their own head experience, what they claim cannot possibly accord with actuality or truth?
There is no fundamental difference between claiming to have had a near death experience and claiming to have had a near jumping over your own knees experience, and if you cannot see that, none can help you.
@@vhawk1951kl huh, being near death is an empirical fact and happens. Jumping over your own knees is just semantics and it totlaly impossible. I can't see it
Concider me unhelpable
I almost died twice. Never saw any bright lights but I did feel very peaceful and sleepy. That's just my experience.
I dont know if you understood what a NDE is
Which Was the experience of being nearly asleep and no more than that - screamingly obviously
How do you *Know* that you " almost died"?
You were peace full and sleepy because you were going to sleep
You cannot *almost* die any more that a woman can be almost pregnant or an object almost unique. Death is absolute and cannot by definition admit of " almost".
What exactly do you mean by almost died? No-one almost dies they either die or they don't.
In the end she admitted her bias, she said it’s much more interesting to see nde as illuminating non-duality etc compared to “another” heaven story etc.
But if she is willing to admit she was wrong if she sees the evidence it’s good.
We are being advised of NDE's by someone who has not experienced an NDE. I wouldn't ask a footballer to explain ballet to me regardless of how much research he / she had done on the subject. There are plenty of doctors / scientists who can talk about this subject with first hand knowledge.
You are not being "advised" by anyone, it is a discussion about the possibility accuracy and veracity of so called " near death experiences, which is a little queer since they are plainly impossible and those reporting them obviously mistaken or simply barmy.
They could not have had an NDE because they are*impossible*.
Even the most apparently sincere witness can be mistaken and if someone told you he had had a near standing on his own shoulders experience he could only possibly be mistaken.
Suppose you were to tell me that you were imagining 7 kangaroos, how might I or anyone go about discovering whether or not you were in fact imagining 7 kangaroos?
Yo don't have a degree, do you? and yes it is that obvious.
Suppose someone told you that they had had a near eating their own head experience. If you did not dismiss that out of hand you would belong in the same asylum as them. There is no fundaments difference between claiming to have had a near death experience and claiming to have had a near jumping over your own knees experience -Both are equally impossible and if you cannot se that, no-one can help you.
Consider for but a moment; how might anyone know tell or discover that they were " near" (how near is near?) death?
For goodness sake apply you mind for but one moment and address that question.
The moment that you turn your mind to the question does not the answer become immediately apparent?
I welcome skeptics' point of view because it's an intellectual exercise to debate with them. Fortunately, NDEs are a fact and skeptics have a hard time trying to find a credible and logical explanation from their point of view. Whatever the official explanation for NDE, it is there regardless of any ideology trying to explain it.
Asserting that some thing is a fact does not make it a fact or address a "fact" for who.
When you experience pain it is very much a "fact" for you, but nobody else.
So calledNDEs can only possibly lies or fantasy or a combination of the two for the very good reason that there is no way for anyone to tell whether or not heis"near"(how near is near?) to death and when you have ruled out the impossible whatever is left, however improbable must be the truth of the matter. Often thoose thatre-interpret experiences sincerely believe that their interpretation is accurate and truthful, but you famous "NDEs" simply*Cannot* be either, for the reasons that I have set out
If someone tells you that they have seen a unicorn do you believe them simply because they tell you that?
Would it constitute proof of the existence of unicorns?
Consider for but a moment; how might anyone know tell or discover that they were " near" (how near is near?) death?
Suppose they claim to have had a near seeing a square circle(or any other conceptual impossibility)experience, wherein lies the difference between that an claiming to have had a near death experience?-Both are equally impossible and identical implausible and no less implausible that claiming to have seen a square circle; they key is impossibility whether conceptual
I think it could be possible that NDE’s are some kind of “self protection” of the brain. Most organisms are food for others. First the organism tries to survive, but when death seems to be unavoidable there is no need to continue in pain and agony. So the brain gives you a comforting and pleasant experience, which lets you die in peace.
That's an interesting possibility, but I don't see how evolution could select for brain behavior that doesn't actually aid survival.
There is a word for those that claim to have or have had so-called " near death experiences, and that word is liar, and there are five words to describe those that even entertain the lies of liar, and they are credulous imbecile children or americans
There are many cases of people who had no brain activity came back and talked about what was happening around them then.
She's only mentioning the tennis shoe story but obviously igoring hundreds of facts regarding NDEs.
However the funniest thing is comparing her dope trip to a NDE.
Despite what you WANT to believe, this interview is really bad.
The reason that there cannot be any so-called " near death experiences" is that it is impossible to tell whether or not one is "near"(how near?)death.
When you combine that with the fact that all those that claim to have had "near death experiences" turn out to be raving lunatics and plainly insane, you are on safe ground to dismiss such claims out of hand.
The big mistake that is made in these discussions is mixing up of the subject matter of the NDE and the instantiation of the NDE. Let me give an example of a dream. Let us say I dreamt about walking on Mars. No one will argue that in my brain there was an activity which represented the instantiation of that dream. Scientifically we will not and do not and there is no need to deny that the dream occured in my brain. But it is easy to see that the subject matter of the dream, i.e. walking on mars, however lucid, is not true. To state the obvious, I was not actually walking on Mars. I think everyone will agree to what I said.
Same is true for weird experiences that people get under influence of drugs like DMT. And the consumers then insist that subject matter experiences they had of the realms or extra dimensions they some times call them and the entities they encountered, are real. Same confusion IMO. No body will deny that the consumer had the instantiation of the activity which represented that experience happened in their brain. However it does not necessarily follow, at minimum, that the subject matter of the experience was real and really existed.
IMO, NDEs are discussed in the same confusing way. We need to discuss the instantiation of the experience in the brain, separate from the truthfulness and real existence of the subject matters of the NDEs. No one denies and there is no need to deny the former. The subject matter of NDEs, that is another issue altogether. Personally I don't think the subject matter really exists in objective sense. In near death, the brain is potentially impared due to lack of oxygen and blood supply and semi-hallucinates. I say semi because the patient may be partially aware enough of the near death situation they are in and thus have experiences of things related to cultural expectation of what happens after death, that are culturally consistent with their own cultural background. For example, a Hindu patient reports seeing Bramha (say) and not an Angel suddenly. The cultural history of the patient is consitently woven into the NDE they report.
Hi Sandip. Totally get what you say but how do you react to Kathleen Turner's experience above?
What is " instantiation"? means what? Anything to do with makingupwordsation?
Please give this subject more attention. It is a fascinating topic
Not any more fascinating than people tripping on hard drugs. I think it has gotten far more attention than it ever deserved to get in the first place.
@@grattata4364 You're just ignorant. Can't help ya.
@@nothanksnoname7567 That's not going to help your case proving that these experiences are anything other than a property of the brain itself. Extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidence, and will otherwise be rejected as bullcrap.
@@grattata4364 Can't prove it, but don't need to. You just have to know. Too bad for you. I also left a comment on an older video, not on this specific topic, but nevertheless I typed up an account that two people (I being one) witnessed (and I tested for known causes) that defied the laws of known physics. Another unprovable incident (since it was not recorded in the act), but nevertheless true. You'd have to take my word for it. But of course you would not, and there would be no mainstream explanation for it, it just wouldn't be possible in most people's minds.
@Peter A. Hey, that's quite a mighty turd you've produced yourself if i may say! Something extraordinary would indeed be if after all these years of scientific work to map the functions of the brain, it comes to our knowledge that our minds produced by this generator somehow is beyond it, or even independent of it. Most sound people would probably agree that that would be a revolutionary and very unexpected find, that would require us to change our view on everything we know, not just the brain, but also the world and universe itself, extraordinary. I have been reading and watching about NDEs for years, and have simply came to the same obvious conclusion like Susan in this video, that there is absolutely zero evidence for it being anything more than a form of dreamlike hallucination that the brain produces. Anyone that isn't easily deluded would do the same. I couldn't care less if you think that my former comments aren't good enough to satisfy your unfounded hope about this phenomena being more than it is. I've seen enough of those "meaningful" and "substantial" speaks already by believers, that yet are so hollow and full of baseless assumptions when you analyze them. I simply ask these people for evidence, and refute the fallacious ground that their belief always rests on. You're welcome to counter any of my earlier comments one by one, instead of making a strawman concluding that all of them lacks value, because you haven't provided a single argument other than simply being butthurt over them yet.
I haven't had a NDE but I've had sleep paralysis a lot which is probably related along with OBE's and they seem pretty real in an objective sense and,in the case of SP, very frightening.i wouldn't like to see where these things are generated .
Sleep paralysis? Why are so many people thinking that this is an explanation for supernatural phenomena? All that sleep paralysis induces is panic as you are waking from sleep, as you cannot move. That has happened to me only once that I can recall, and it only lasted about a second. I have had other experiences that are unexplainable by current mainstream science, and sleep paralysis had nothing to do with it (not having those experiences while waking up, with one personal event not seen or otherwise experienced by others, during wakefulness, though heavily meditating in my own way, no manuals or dogma). Some people like this know it all (she knows nothing about this) cunt speaking on this video like to be able to neatly label things to understand it through their own lacking prism of knowledge and brush it under the carpet, so they project their own ignorance with such easy explaining away such as SP.
You have no doubt never had a " near" jumping over your knees experience either and for exactly the same reason.
What sort of blow to the head to you suppose that it even might be possible to have a near death experience suffered?
If I told you that I had had a near standing on my own shoulders experience or a near seeing a square circle or colour I had never seen experience, would you say:"Waal the chp seems sincere, maybe he really did have a near standing on his own shoulders or near seeing a square circle or near jumping over his own knees experience?
Or might you perhaps say to yourself," maybe he rally *is*the emperor Napoleon Bonaparte"?
Are you beginning to get the idea sunshine?
Can you not grasp that if it is purely and exclusively your own experience it *cannot* be " objective?
No, I suppose not. Where do you suppose dreams are generated? You don't have a degree, do you?
Suppose you were able to question someone claiming to have had a NDE, might you not ask them the following questions?
No, you think suppose or *imagine* that you experienced a NDE.
Any chance you were mistaken or are people never mistaken?
Exactly how "near(how near is near?)death were you and how did you know that what you were near was death when you have never died.
How near is near?
Were you frightened *Forever*?Did the fear make it any different? What exactly is fear?
In my out of body experience, my soul was controlled by my thoughts. I instructed my soul to go back to my body and it did.
How did it go back when you never left your body?
Grattata 🤷🏻♂️
People do that every night, when they go to sleep.
What makes you imagine there you have a "soul" (whatever a soul might be)?
More like an out of your mind experience-Otherwise known as dreaming
Yawn! Susan Blackmore yet again being wheeled out to push her same old same old dogma. It’s clear she’s done very little research into the subject, why bother interviewing her about it?
Then why look at it?
I hope your life doesn’t stay terrible forever and eventually gets wonderful ❤
Wonderful for how long and a by whose standard?
Consider for but a moment; how might anyone know tell or discover that they were " near" (how near is near?) death?
Suppose they claim to have had a near seeing a square circle(or any other conceptual impossibility)experience, wherein lies the difference between that an claiming to have had a near death experience?-Both are equally impossible and identical implausible and no less implausible that claiming to have seen a square circle; they key is impossibility whether conceptual
What a fantastic interviewer
When the brain electric activity is flat zero and no oxygen is supplied what physiology you are talking about?
6:30 he finally got closer to truth xD
Whose truth?
If you have a headache or any other sort of pain it is true for you but nobody else so when people talk about truth you must always ask them whose truth
why do you need more than one D?
This discussion reveals far more about human frailty and psychology than it does on the very nature of life and death . We are all none too emotional in knowing there was a time before we existed but the chocks are pulled whenever we posit about time AFTER we no longer exist . Thats just fear .
The first 5 minutes sounded like a ketamine trip or things/places like I personally have meditated into. Whats the difference between those experiences and dreams outside of the nde? Surely dreaming is a world beyond the physical...
Perhaps people who have a nde are just dreaming and simply not dead long enough for the brain to fully switch off before the body is kickstarted back into action. Doesn't the brain dump certain chemicals in these situations? That may explain the similarities between peoples experiences.
well the interesting thing is psychedelics decrease the brain activity. so similar to NDE where the brain shuts down. Seems like Aldous Huxley may be true : "To make biological survival possible, Mind at Large has to be funnelled through the reducing valve of the brain and nervous system. What comes out at the other end is a measly trickle of the kind of consciousness which will help us to stay alive on the surface of this particular planet "
This materialistic woman is trying to sound smart by criticizing NDE accounts.
She is simply stating the fact that there is zero evidence for them being more than dreamlike hallucinations. And also, putting that "materialistic" label on others makes you stand out as a complete moron.
@@grattata4364 zero evidence??? 😂
@@fritzcervz6945 Yes, zero evidence that these experiences are beyond or independent of the brain itself to happen. That's right, every motivational speak you've heard from people describing their experiences are merely anecdotes and doesn't count as evidence.
@@grattata4364 there are hundreds of evidence from neuroscience itself yet people like you just have a big ego.
@@fritzcervz6945 If you say so i guess it must be right.
GoodLuck
with
Science ALONE,
to explain
TheHumanExperience
🙏
I dont think that modern academia science by any means lives up to their own scientific standards of objectivity, scientific metod etc.!
It seems that modern academics speaks with at least 2 tongues, they try to create interest in stating ideas that very well could be religions for the gods, multiverse theory comes to mind, and what about those cosmological constants that from a mathematical is impossible to have ever happened by chance, just to prove no intention!?
@@stianmathisen4284
I think you wanted to say, that you don't understand science or mathematics.
The cosmological constant is mathematically impossible to have happened? It's a constant. It's right in its name. That's not complicated.
It is not subject to change and "mathematically impossible to have happened" makes therefore absolutely no sense.
...
What else? I don't need something beyond the scientific method (which mathematically provable essentially the only reliable method to truth).
And what even is the human experience? I doubt we have even remotely the same experience.
And what do you mean by explain? To me explanation is when you express a phenomenon with something simpler and consistent. And that is what science does.
@@tofu-munchingCoalition.ofChaos
Sorry for my bad choise of words, happened by chance my friend, that is what i am questioning and dont believe!
@@tofu-munchingCoalition.ofChaos
Does not the complete scientific method for to give some hypothesis valid result crave, witnessing and repetition of some valid experiment by all of the independent partakers, and all of this in true time?
Can you call it science if consensus cant be established?
Ever interviewed Peter Fenwick?
Have you?
Yeah, right. I don't need to interview someone that claims to have seen unicorns or had so-called near death experiences to know that they are either liars or fantantasists-or just insane.
@@vhawk1951kl lol
I've always thought "Life after death" is the wrong terminology and it's a complete paradox anyway which can't exist. My NDE was more like the return to something. Like the return to death from life, which makes much more sense, but I think that our conventional understanding of death is wrong or our conventional understanding of the universe and consciousness is wrong. We don't understand consciousness - it is one of the few things which we can't really break down to basic elements. Just as we cannot recreate life in a lab from the physical elements that we believe make up a lifeform. I believe this thing we call consciousness is as intrinsic an element of the universe as Gravity, space or time and is just as infinite. I dont get why this concept is so difficult for people to grasp. It is a natural conclusion.
I am listening,this makes sense.
Blackmore's wrong and knows little of the massive amounts of research on the NDE topic.
You mean the never-ending unverified anecdotes? This is basically what the believers pin their hopes too. It's not evidence, let alone proof.
In all modesty, it seems Susan did not properly investigate the topic. There are a lot of verifiable NDEs (I mean by verifiable when the person experiencing the NDE came back with information that he/she would not know) and she only mentioned one. Check out Robert Spitzer work on NDEs for more examples (his article "Science, Medecine and Near Death Experiences")
If X makes an assertion to you in the sure and certain knowledge that you can neither verify nor falsify it he may assert anything he pleases may he not?? His safe to bet the farm of the tendency of men to accept without question passively mechanically faute d mieux is he not?
@@vhawk1951kl What I said is that the person coming back reports verifiable information, not unfalsifiable claims. I mean by verifiable info a claim that can be independently attested by the doctors, nurses, ... (e.g., the patient 'sees' in his/her experience that the doctor at one point made joke X and the nurse laughed. Then when he comes back he reports it to the doctor)
Only when we die we will know whether there is life after death or not
Just as " we" cannot have an headache, " we" cannot know.
If mrs. Blackmore didn't have a NDE herself,it's hard to listening to her talking about NDEs...it's like I talk about Greece while I've never been to Greece....but she sure is getting the attention and making a career out of it....
NDE doesn't prove anything
there's so much bs in life, so ofc there's so much bs in death as well
I think a lot of experts might think that near death accounts are on par with dreams, or UFO encounters, and, in fact, neither dreams or UFO experiences are well understood. But in any event, as for "belief" by rational folks, it takes more than anecdotes. We need that missing Jodie Foster tape.^
In typical skeptic fashion, she's viewing everything through the lens of impossibility. Confirmation bias is just as real of a phenomenon in the mind of the skeptic as it is in the mind of the believer. In fact, it's often more intense in the mind of the skeptic.
Susan Blackmore,
YES . . .
AND . . .
I had a different interpretation
of MyNonDual,
InBody,
NearLife,
Mystical Experience
BUT, like you,
I didn't have
a NDE,
I had a
NLE
SaMadHi
There is no fundamental difference between claiming to have had a near death experience and claiming to have had a near jumping over your own knees experience.
Consider for but a moment; how might anyone know tell or discover that they were " near" (how near is near?) death?
Suppose they claim to have had a near seeing a square circle(or any other conceptual impossibility)experience, wherein lies the difference between that an claiming to have had a near death experience?-Both are equally impossible and identical implausible and no less implausible that claiming to have seen a square circle; they key is impossibility whether conceptual definitional or experiential.
She actually believes in some form of consciousness after death, she just doesn't know what kind. He wants to say that an NDE is not evidence of something after.
Appreciate life. It only happens once to you.
I would like to see an interview with the presenter and Raymond Moody
Why?
There is a simple word for those that claim to have had near death experiences and that word is.................
..................
Liars
@@vhawk1951kl research him and see
You Believe it or not you don,t have to die to be out of your body , i have seen myself from the ceiling in my room sleeping in the bed and that was scary , thought i am dead at the same time i was back in my body in the bed . i was 15 years old . Near death Experience is different than out of body Experience ,
Yup, it's called dreaming.
Dreams are - or appear to be, true, while they last.
Can you say more of life?
That there is no shortage of those prepared to lie deliberately of course, what else?
The background looks like one of the sets from The Man in the High Castle.
She was boring for me too ;)
It’s a creepy background
Susan has to has at least doubts about the materialist 8nterpretstion of nde. These nde are so incredible that is hard to has a eceptic view if you study all of it.
You better question is perhaps: How can someone that has never experienced death or died, possibly know that they are "near" death. point 1, and point2, how near is near?
There are words for nde's as you call them, and those words are fantasy, dreaming, lying, and self deception. I prefer good old-fashion gibberish or nonsense- it could be nothing else.
@@vhawk1951kl be more open. Are not complete dead. But lives like the deads if they live. They feel that are out of the body. For you that is not possible but maybe you are wrong. I tell you a fact, that blind people by birth by a a quasi dead fell out of the body and fir the first time they see they has visual. Kennet Ring call this vision mindseing. Is a vision of the mind. These blind people from birth has not any image in their brain as memory. They dream with sound and other senses but not with images. But when they die ( or quite die ) they see, they has visual perception. This a fact. You can not discuse this matter.
Consider for but a moment; how might anyone know tell or discover that they were " near" (how near is near?) death?
Suppose they claim to have had a near seeing a square circle(or any other conceptual impossibility)experience, wherein lies the difference between that an claiming to have had a near death experience?-Both are equally impossible and identical implausible and no less implausible that claiming to have seen a square circle; they key is impossibility whether conceptual
They demonstrate that consciousness is fundamental.
Consciousness of what? - Whose consciousness of what?
You have no idea whatsoever? - No surprises there
@@vhawk1951kl Don't be stupid.
But never define it any more than you do.
It is meaningless to speak of consciousness without specifying whose consciousness of what. It's either that or just say stuff instead or try semaphore.
What if you were never born? And what about people who flatlined and saw nothing? Is there a soul? Probably not!! We have this one life to appreciate most likely!!!
Naturalists (materialists) will have to explain why nature would benefit that kind of feature, how it evolved through time and place and why. Features survive when beneficial, especially to reproduction. NDE's may have 5 stages, as said here. But that's pretty much, to have evolved into. All precursors to what NDE's are now, have to be explained too. Good luck with that !
Don't have to explain anything at all. People that claim these experiences are beyond the brain's capacity to create them has the burden of proof. Until then they will simply be rejected as a "natural" way to trip too hard on your drugs.
@@grattata4364 Funny how you do not need to nor could explain why a totally compromised brain which generate such a highly real experience when it should not to medically at all. Funny how you can say that the brain creates consciousness when not a single neroscientist on earth can explain a mechanism in which the brain gives rise to consciousness. Again, why care to research that when you can just keep having talking points.
Perhaps you do not have the information that " evolve" means unroll". If you suggest that it could possibly mean anything else do please set out what that something else is.
I see that you both cannot and do not.
Inducing OBE's by triggering some parts of brain doesn't prove these experiences don't have any reality outside the brain.... just as inducing pain by ticking some nerve in brain doesn't prove that all physical pains experienced by humans are illusions.
Who told you that and why do you believe them?
Whose "reality?
You use words like reality but have absolutely no idea what you mean by them
Who told you that was possible and why do you believe them?
Do you creatures never get any training in scepticism when you are being programmed?
Consider for but a moment; how might anyone know tell or discover that they were " near" (how near is near?) death?
Suppose they claim to have had a near seeing a square circle(or any other conceptual impossibility)experience, wherein lies the difference between that an claiming to have had a near death experience?-Both are equally impossible and identical implausible and no less implausible that claiming to have seen a square circle; they key is impossibility whether conceptual
a no more can you " prove to anyone by any means that you are not imagining 9 kangaroos.
Consider for but a moment; how might anyone know tell or discover that they were " near" (how near is near?) death?
For goodness sake apply you mind for but one moment and address that question.
The moment that you turn your mind to the question does not the answer become immediately apparent?
Yo creo que las personas que tienen una ecm se sienten en el hogar por que ¿que hay mas cercano a nosotros que el interior de la mente (sea lo que sea esta)? No tiene sentido que la mente te aterrorice si ya vas a morir, seria mas logico que te calme para que te dejes llevar, visiones de seres queridos etc. A fin de cuentas vemos el mundo en nuestra mente a traves de un cuerpo, si no hay cuerpo no hay barreras hasta que la mente se apague y todo termine claro.
Interview Dr. Bruce Greyson from University of Virginia. He has both qualitative and quantitative data on this subject. Hard to hear his interviews and approach and still maintain a reductionistic attitude. Pam Reynolds is the most convincing and verifiable case to date in my book.
To my knowledge, there is lots of data, as the NDE phenomenon is real, but no proofs that anything supernatural is required to explain it. I didn't know about Pam Reynolds, but a quick look on Wikipedia shows that an experienced anesthesiologist analyzed the case and proposed plausible naturalistic explanation. If someone thinks that Wikipedia has to be corrected, please do it. Explanations must be first demonstrated to be possible in order to be considered as candidates to explain NDE. No one yet demonstrated a mind outside of the body, so it cannot be even considered as a probable explanation for NDE.
Wiki mentions an anesthesiologist giving a conventional explanation which is not surprising. Reynolds being able to retroactively reconstruct detailed conversations, medical tools used, songs played, and the complications they had with her femoral artery during surgery is giving a brain with no activity a lot of credit. Her eyes were taped shut, she had clickers in her ears at 90 decimals, her brain and heart were monitored, and she had the blood drained from her head. All this is verified in her medical records released in Greysons research. I would recommend investigating this case a little more along with UVA’s research on the topic. Materialistic explanations for cases like hers and others are becoming a stretch at this point since they are stacking up. Of course some people use these cases to validate their theology or religious worldview, but when people really look into it them they contradict many of religious assumptions as well. NDE’s challenge both physicalism / naturalism and religious expectations so they get hit from both sides. Donald Hoffman is another person to look into as well. Not a near death experiencer, but he is sounding the alarm that naturalistic explanations for our universe is coming to a close through cognitive and evolutionary psychology and quantum physics. Physicists at the top of their field are claiming that our concept of time, space, and matter is going through a major shift. The probability that our consciousness arrived from mindless molecules and atoms given enough time is problematic and a huge stretch for myself and others.
@@adamharris689 I read more about Pam Reynolds, and I am still not impressed. Her case is an anecdote that cannot be properly scientifically investigated. Her first interview was three years after the surgery, and it's known that the brain can create false memories. It is known that people can hear while in coma (e.g. www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/geoffrey-lean-i-was-in-a-coma-but-i-could-hear-every-word-415327.html). When it comes to proper scientific investigate of NDE, there are experiments where extraordinary visual elements are brought into the room to test if patients will remember them afterwards. Well, not a single NDE survivor who claimed seeing themselves on the table reported any of these elements. This tells me it is likely that the brain reconstructed the visual events afterwards based on the audio experience and prior and past knowledge of how the operating room should look like, and they didn’t report extraordinary targets simply because they couldn’t really see anything. To me this simple explanation is much more likely than “mind without brain” which has never been demonstrated. For sure, there are pieces of the Reynold's story which are puzzling, but it is also hard to discern Reynold's real memories from false ones which she accumulated over the years while thinking about her own case. I wouldn't broaden this discussion to include religion. When it comes to materialism, I don't care about that label. I follow data, wherever it takes us. At the moment we don't have any solid scientific data that mind can exist outside of brain, we have only personal anecdotes which mostly can be explained by known phenomena, and for the things we can't explain we can only say "I don't know" for now, until we get more solid data. Regarding consciousness, yes, atoms, molecules and brain cells are mindless, but that doesn't mean that brain is. Composition of parts produces emergent properties. Computer parts in isolation cannot do anything, it is only when they are put together in a particular way when they can perform functions they do. Why is the theory that consciousness is an emergent property of brain not plausible?
What you’re referring to is the AWARE project, which has no verified cases, but if someone did have this traumatic and confusing experience it does not seem likely that they would be looking for a target. However, it is a new project and given some more time it could happen but it’s not solid evidence for this particular project. What researchers have done is accumulate the accounts given by medical professionals, family members, and anyone associated to verify details the experiencer reports. I understand that this may not be enough hard evidence for some, but as a skeptic myself hearing and reading through the reports I am much more open to this possibility then I was at one point. This is where Dr. Bruce Greysons research is helpful for anyone who wants thorough and serious research on the topic over the past 30 years. Irreducible Mind is another helpful book on the topic of brain-mind relationship with experiences and phenomenon that don’t have a materialistic explanation. As far as the supernatural explanation, I don’t think anyone should jump to a magical understanding, but studies on consciousness and the quantum world are pointing to consciousness being the foundation for existence, not time, space, and matter. For atomic elements to arrange themselves to produce complexity and awareness in biological creatures is an extremely hard question to engage without being open to consciousness being foundational. This is Donald Hoffman’s theory he mentioned at the New York Academy of Sciences panel.
@@adamharris689 What I hear you saying is there are some phenomena around NDE we cannot explain at the moment. And it seems you agree that these are not proofs of mind without brain. I am open to anything data point to, but until mind without brain is demonstrated it cannot be even considered as a candidate explanation for NDE except as a speculation. Regarding whether or not matter can arrange itself to produce consciousness, data that we have at the moment show that consciousness is tied to brain, and that our brain is a product of evolution where self-replicating matter advanced brain complexity to the point where it is now. In other words, data we currently have indicate consciousness is a property of a material brain. For sure, we should be sceptical and explore other avenues, but at this point is not rational to think (and more importantly make decisions) based on assumptions that it is not the case. I read a little about Donald Hoffman and watched his talk you mentioned, and I am not impressed at all. The way I understand him, in the nutshell, is - 1. Personal experiences are mysteries; 2. Physicists are looking for a theory that will unify quantum mechanics and general theory of relativity, and they speculate there is an underlying model which is more fundamental than space and time; 3. Consciousness is the solution!!!... What a wild assertion! His MUI theory breaks down in the first sentence (at least how it is presented in Wikipedia) as user interface, by definition, reflects what's behind the interface (otherwise it wouldn't work), so it cannot be that our experience doesn't approximate the reality, whatever that is. I am actually very disappointed with how shallow his thinking is. Penrose is, at least, honest in saying that he considers quantum nature of mind because he doesn't like the idea that mind is deterministic, it's not because he has any data leading to the quantum nature. I am not saying Hoffman is not right though, as it wouldn't be the first time the right answer is found following bad reasoning. But until data confirms it, I am not buying it.
Why does he say as a neurosurgeon he thinks there's an explanation? Then tell us! Explain. You can't.
susan we should concider that spirit & soul are first non-material second they do violate material physical laws e.g can be in two places at the same moment thirdly they can be outside space / time interface we all live inside like babies in womb , hence we can say we cannot know conciousness from where we are now...
Cn there no be degrees of materiality?
Consider for but a moment; how might anyone know tell or discover that they were " near" (how near is near?) death?
Suppose they claim to have had a near seeing a square circle(or any other conceptual impossibility)experience, wherein lies the difference between that an claiming to have had a near death experience?-Both are equally impossible and identical implausible and no less implausible that claiming to have seen a square circle; they key is impossibility whether conceptual
Do we get to learn what exists in the entire universe when we die?
I wouldn't count on it.
Given that " the universe" is imaginary- cannot be directly immediately experienced As the universe, that question is academic. I will grant you that bits of the universe can be directly immediately personally experienced, but not the whole thing for obvious reasons, namely that All universals are imaginary as defined.
What about mediums who can speak for the dead on the other side?
How many have you met?
Never believe or accept without question, evidence from someone that you cannot yourself cross-examine for bias , accuracy etc.
they can't
With exactly how many "mediums and you have direct immediate personal experience?
That's the topic I'm really interested in. Too bad that scientists can pin point when, or how it happens.
Since when? the materialist scientist either ignore the evidence and refuse to address it as it mounts or they become persuaded by it and become non materialist scientists or die and have their own experience and become persuaded by that only other possibility I can think of is they make arguments against it but they don't seem to do that.
You don't need to be a "scientist" tell that somebody dead
Some people are told they have to go back
Suppose someone told you that they had "nearly" stood on their own shoulders, you would dismiss that as you dismiss all claims to have had " neardeath" expeeriences which are no more possible than near standing on your own shoulders are possible.
It ia as nonsensical to sucggest that you were "nearly" born as it is to suggest that you " nearly died.
That some cannot grasp that is evidence of the degeneration of contemporary human beings or just men
What does a\an NDE mean? This question confuses for, no 'average' NDE can there be, this ican attest!
Thus, is there anything that can be learned from a \cameback/ than that of a {broughtback}?
There is a difference!
The plain fact of the matter can only be that there is no way for anyone to tell whether or not he is 2near death".
He may have supposed or guessed that he was near death, but the truth of the matter is that he can have no way of knowing.
It means that those reporting such things are either insane or lying.
My money is on insane but deliberate lying cannot be excluded.
@@vhawk1951kl You know what Peter, it doesn't mean fk. all? You get a second chance don't waste it, there are so many BS stories about most don't realise it's what was signed up or into for? Yeah, they don't class as near death when it's what was sought! Therefore, please do knot fall for the BSartists looking for something unwarranted: evenoddly enough science&medicine has gone {atadawryatmimo} How're ya liking 2020s #sickensmearse #infuriating