When my father died back in 2004,I had a dream a few days later after his death in my sleep 'where everything seemed so real' he was working repairing a shed roof on a ladder, I was shocked to see him,I said to him 'but you are dead' he replied ' I am not dead what are you talking about l am here' That was back in 2004 (17+ years ago now) I still remember this dream to this day,it still haunts and upsets me.
Just look at what our world has turned into. it seems people just don't want to think too hard especially the millennials. all they know is playing games on their cell phones listening to loud music and other nonsense. America's worst generation in my opinion.
You're going through the same philosophical struggles that all the great thinkers have gone through -- wrestling with how a conscious mind with a lineage of personal experiences and individual character can just "vanish". This anguish is at the heart of the very earliest death rituals. It is a part of the grief process that even animals experience -- loss of loved ones, and wondering where they went, and where we shall go. It's a statement about our plight that 10s or perhaps 100s of thousands of years later we're still no closer to coming to a definitive answer. No shortage of beliefs of course, but no undeniable factual answer. Other than... "we're gone". A slap in the face to human dignity.
@@entombedmachine1518 even though you are correct the DNA we pass to our descendants isn’t us it is only half of us .. the other half comes from your partner so it isn’t a total copy of oneself.. and as the generations March on your DNA will be totally different
@@entombedmachine1518 Your memories and character are not contained in your DNA. They're not talking about making a clone of someone- that would only create what would amount to a twin. They're talking about recreating not only a person's DNA but every single particle that makes up their body- and the spins, charges, etc.- of those particles. In theory, if you did that- the resulting person would be them- complete with all their memories and emotions and everything. And the specific point they were making is that even if you did this- it does nothing to lessen a person's sense of self, they still feel like them- and they're still going to have self-preservation instincts and not want to die. And so- have you really recreated them? I would say- yes, you've made a copy- but that doesn't mean someone is all the sudden going to be ok with death. You didn't transfer consciousness- you made a copy of it, the original still exists and they will fight to stay alive. I'm not sure why that seems like a logical inconsistency to some ppl. The key here is that you copied it, you didn't transfer it- and that's a huge difference. In fact, I suspect that you can't just copy it- I suspect that the process of copying the information will destroy it. Otherwise, you're creating a person from what seems like nothing- you start with one person- now you have two- with no cost? That doesn't feel right- it feels much more right to think that the process of copying it will require the destruction of the original source. Which sort of makes sense because we already know that measuring or observing a quantum system changes it. Since you would be recording the quantum properties of each particle- you would change each particle simply by observing, measuring, and recording its properties. Which would mean when you got done- that person wouldn't be that person anymore. The set of quantum values that made them "Bob" has been changed. Now they're just like the "medium" you're about to download them into I guess- whatever it is.
@@stoneysdead689 “The key here is that you copied it, you didn't transfer it- and that's a huge difference.” Exactly!! Well said!! The problem is that a strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism is literally self refuting. It inevitably leads to fatalism and epistemological nihilism and inevitably suicidal ideation. Especially if you are intellectually honest enough to live it out consistently. The fact is that no one has ever empirically observed “matter” outside and independent of Mind and Consciousness for we are forever locked in (mind) and (consciousness). All we can observe are the contents of perception, which are inherently mental. Even the output of measurement instruments is only accessible to us insofar as it is mentally perceived. We usually infer the unknown from the known not the unknown, that is “matter” to the known which is (Mind and Consciousness). This reverses the logical direction of inference which is why the theoretical abstraction of mind known as “matter” is clearly not the fundamental primitive. It leads to an absurdity!! At least be a consistent strictly reductive materialist, atheist or philosophical naturalist, that is at least be a consistent fatalist and epistemological nihilist because according to the greatest atheist thinkers who ever lived… Logic is an illusion (Nietzsche) “Truths are illusions which we have forgotten are illusions.” - (Nietzsche, Reference from: On Truth and Lies in a Nonmoral Sense). “Should I kill myself?” is the essential philosophical question.” (Albert Camus). Merry chap but at least he’s “logically” consistent with his atheism!! “Suppose we want truth: why not rather untruth? and uncertainty? even ignorance?” - (Nietzsche). “You can not get an (ought) out of an (is)” - (David Hume) “Storytellers continue their narratives late into the night to forestall death and to delay the inevitable moment when everyone must fall silent.” (Foucault). Life is an “horror” and “truth” is “illusory”. (Nietzsche) Imagine telling all of these little stories to someone as a Christmas bed time story? And “new atheists” mock our beliefs!! Their world view, their absurdity, their ULTIMATELY MEANINGLESS, HOLLOW AND SOULLESS APE, their existential crisis and their epistemological crisis not the theists!! And a very cheerful group of people I bet they were a blast at Christenings, birthday parties, and especially at golden wedding anniversaries and especially at funerals!! Cheerful group of people but at least they are intellectually honest and “logically” consistent with their strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism!!
This is one of the best series I have ever come across. I have thought about this stuff from the time I can remember , I am 66 years old. I haven't owned a TV in 25 years and only became aware of this program a few months ago. Robert asks the same questions I have , the only difference , I don't fear the concept of death. I have recommended this series to people close to me. The thinking persons series.
Wow, how could I not find out about this channel earlier? I can relate to so much that has been said here. I feel like being on the same hunt for truth. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and your findings.
@@masterpNL1983 I disagree. I admit that it's a bit frustrating at the end when the episode ends with more questions than answers, but that doesn't make it less interesting. Listening to the opinions of some of the brightest people out there about the deepest questions we ask ourselves is very interesting and insightful. It gives us different perspectives to deal with those questions
Proof? Extraordinary claims and all that.. NEAR Death Experiences won't cut it, nore will quantum entanglement.... How many dead people have conciously talked to you recently...... I hope for your santity the answer is none, ever... But to be fair to your vague comment you may mean conciousness continues for some time after the heart and/or brainwaves stop .. I believe you're not truly dead until your brain (and/or body?) has rotted enough for it to be impossible for conciousness to be restarted in a functional way.
@@werquantum I completely understand. However, I seem to think that just because certain topics have been, as you've said, "written about" or "theorized on", doesn't necessarily mean that the contents of the topic are true, but much rather proves that the topic itself is simply controversial. All meta-physical claims have been subject to theoretical speculation as well as being the basis upon which several notable literary works have been composed, but again, this does not affirm it's validity. The only thing validified here is that NDE's and consciousness are contentious topics. I would say that there are numerous arguments, theories or literary works which detest or oppose the existence of NDE's/Consciousness as there are arguments, theories or literary works which seem to be in favour of it. Controversial topics, such as that of which we took to discuss, undoubtedly has several perspectives, opinions and arguments both in favour and not in favour of its validity; after all, that is what makes the topic controversial. But again, the presence of controversy should not be the basis upon which we take to measure validity.
Laur Manolescu . Often, albeit one sided. My family and I eat a lot of fish, all caught by me. I usually apologise for the pain I cause when I take the hook out of their mouths. Regarding souls and consciousness I think my beloved dog certainly has the latter and if I thought I had a soul then I would definitely think he does too. And by extension all living creatures. But I don’t think I have a soul. Life is but a hiccup of consciousness between oblivions.
About consciousness, and the loss of it at death, I ask the question ... would the universe, would reality, mother nature, god, etc. ... be so wasteful as to lose consciousness? Also, nothing is destroyed, as mentioned, its only change that occurs, so the perhaps unanswerable is what change occurs after physical body death? Could consciousness and the organization involved in it, somehow connected at some level of the universe such that it simply slips to some other domain?
I think that when we die we wake up in another aspect and we think we were dreaming and usually forget it like we do most dreams. I think sometimes we remember and may take some memories with us. I also believe we may reincarnate if we wish and remember our former life. I don't think there is a God. I think we are all aspects of God and we may be born again and again as corporeal physical beings to appreciate our magnificent CREATION with fresh, young senses.
Totally agree with you!. We can only speculate. Nevertheless, the belief that there is no evidence of a non “physical” consciousness depends on what your definition of “physical matter” is. Recent evidence suggests that consciousness could be related to quantum vibrations in the neuro tubule receptors in the brain. It speaks volumes that at the quantum level you have “objects” that are massless, invisible, impossible to measure completely that can influence each other over great distance and can also paradoxically be in the same place at the same time (Bi locational). I’m just speculating but our previous “materialistic” Newtonian concept of matter, time and space seems to crumble under the weight of evidence from quantum theory. Similarly, after the death of an old friend Einstein stated... “That means nothing. People like us ... know that the distinction between past, present and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion." Interestingly, recent research suggests that Einstein was right, death is an illusion as reality appears to have a non linear dimensionality. All the best to you and keep safe during this Corona virus crisis.
@@Aftrbrnr “9” Did you hear the one about the overgrown amoeba with illusions of grandeur who thought he was nothing more substantive than an ULTIMATELY MEANINGLESS, HOLLOW AND SOULLESS APE who shares half their DNA with BANANAS? He was a right NUT job as he thought that APE have magical value because APE say APE have magical value!! He was a right FRUIT AND NUT CAKE as well as he wasted his “finite” life ironically proselytising about ultimately meaningless, fatalistic, nihilistic word games. And he thought that “he” wasn’t objectively real either as “he” thought that “he” was just a subjective, arbitrary, social construct, an arbitrary cultural relativist, that is as arbitrary as the fact that we evolved five fingers instead of six!! Nothing more substantive than the ultimately meaningless, ultimately purposeless, accidental arrangement of random atoms and brain chemicals creating the illusion of stable patterns and regularities!! That is nothing more substantive than the brains [USER ILLUSION OF SELF], a determined machine, a chemical P zombie, that is nothing more substantive than a chemical and biological meat robot right? That is nothing more substantive than a “MONKEY” BRAIN IN A VAT. The ultimately meaningless, accidental arrangement of pond slime evolved to an allegedly “HIGHER” order right? Nothing more substantive than the ultimately meaningless science project of vinegar and baking soda accidentally bubbling over, a JOKE on the universe with the illusion of consciousness/free will, that is the illusion of the “RATIONAL AND MORAL HIGH GROUND” LOL. He went BANANAS in the end!! Drum role!! Kerching!! Applause!! [GOTCHA!!] “9”!! Your world view, your absurdity, your ULTIMATELY MEANINGLESS, HOLLOW AND SOULLESS APE, your existential crisis and your epistemological crisis not the theists!! Everyone has a right to believe what they want and everyone including theists have a right to find it totally ridiculous, totally nihilistic, totally fatalistic and totally and utterly self refuting!! Prove me “WRONG”? I’ll wait!!
Some of the materialists seem to have absolutely no grasp of the very basic concept of first-person awareness. It's almost as if they are trying to explain it away. I don't think they understand the interviewer's basic question: can I (first-person subjectivity) survive after death? This question seeks an answer to whether or not my first-person consciousness continues after death. The materialists reply by talking about replicas of you (devoid of the subjectivity that existed prior to your natural death) possibly existing. This is fine. But then they make the deep category mistake of inferring that this replica is necessarily you. (By the way, materialists make the same mind-bending omission when some of them just deny that consciousness exists - calling it a "delusion" while ignoring the fact that a delusion presupposes consciousness). They can't admit that there is an extremely clear distinction between the subjective me living forever and some type of a replica/twin of me living forever. A replica of you can live forever ergo you can live forever? This doesn't make sense to me. Perhaps the materialists are trying to shoehorn the idea of an afterlife into their materialist outlook by radically redefining what "afterlife" means (a meaning totally different to what the interviewer and humanity ask when they ask: will I survive natural death?). I think if they were being honest the materialists would answer: When you're dead, you're dead. Your lights have gone out forever. However, someone who looks and talks like you might live on. Our materialist outlook, while it makes rational sense to us, is at its core, tragic. Go somewhere else if you seek consolation. Perhaps I'm missing something!
FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE OF AN NDE WHERE HAD A SIMULTANEOUS EXPERIENCE OF OBE ( FOR NEARLY HALF AN HOUR ) I AM 100 PERCENT SURE THAT CONSCIOUSNESS SURVIVES THE BODILY DEATH : WHILE I COULD SEE ALL AROUND ME VERY CLEARLY EVEN ACROSS ANY IMMEDIATE BARRIERS , AS ALSO HEAR ( ALTHOUGH NOT LISTEN CLEARLY BECAUSE OF NOISY ENVIRONMENT AROUND ) : I HAD NO OTHER SENSATIONS : NO PAIN OR PLEASURE , NO SKIN SENSATIONS, (PERHAPS NO KNOWLEDGE OF SMELL OR TASTE) : SENSE OF TIME REMAINED ONLY DURING THIS SPEEDING THROUGH A BRIGHT LIGHT TUNNEL : ONLY AFTER EMERGING FROM THE TUNNEL COULD I SENSE SPACE WHERE I WAS HOVERING ABOVE MY IMMOBILE BODY AND ALSO HAD A SORT OF "BIRD'S EYE VIEW " OF ALMOST EVERYTHING BELOW AND AROUND . ENTRY BACK INTO MY BODY LYING THERE WAS NOT AS DRAMATIC AS WAS THE EXIT : IT WAS SO SMOOTH AND SUDDEN THAT I CAN'T RECOLLECT ANY DETAILS . THERE WERE NO HALLUCINATIONS OR IMAGINARY WORLD PROJECTIONS WHATSOEVER DURING THIS EXPERIENCE BUT I SOMEHOW HAD THE MEMORY OF THE EXPERIENCE WHICH I SHARED WITH MY FRIEND AND COLLEAGUE ACCOMPANYING ME AT THE TIME : IN FACT IT WAS HIM WHO CONFIRMED WHAT EXACTLY HAD HAPPENED FOR HOW LONG : YES, HE WAS SURPRISED AT WHEN I DESCRIBED TO HIM WHAT HE WAS DOING DURING THE TIME I WAS OUT OF MY BODY ! EVER SINCE THAT INCIDENT ( NEED NOT CALL IT AN ACCIDENT ) MY CURIOSITY TO EXPLORE DEATH AND CONSCIOUSNESS CONTINUES TO DATE ! IT WAS AFTER SIX YEARS OF THIS EVENT THAT I WITNESSED A 104-YEAR OLD MAN TAKE TO YOGIC SAMADHI IN PRESENCE OF NEARLY THOUSAND PEOPLE INCLUDING HIS FAMILY MEMBERS, RELATIVES AND FRIENDS, OTHERS INCLUDING TWO DOCTORS WHO HAD BEEN CALLED IN ADVANCE : HE HAD ANNOUNCED HIS DATE AND TIME OF TAKING SAMADHI A WEEK IN ADVANCE AND HAD INSTRUCTED HIS FAMILY TO INVITE EVERYONE TO CELEBRATE HIS DEATH ( ACTUALLY SAMADHI WHICH IN REALITY MEANS LEAVING ONE'S BODY VOLUNTARILY : SO THAT CONSCIOUSNESS IS EXPELLED OUT OF THE PHYSICAL FRAME AND ONE GAINS THE FINAL RELEASE FROM HAVING BEEN TRAPPED FOR SO LONG) ! AS AN ADEPT YOGI HE HAD THE KNOWLEDGE AND OBVIOUSLY THE MASTERY OVER HIS BODY - MIND PROCESSES AND WAS IN POSSESSION OF THE METHOD TO CONTROL THE TRANSITION OF CONSCIOUSNESS PRINCIPLE : HE ACHIEVED HIS GOAL SUCCESSFULLY ! THIS REAL LIFE INCIDENT PROMPTED ME TO EXPLORE THE MYSTERY OF CONSCIOUSNESS FURTHER ON : DISCOVERY IS STILL ELUSIVE !
I think having persistence of self continuity being what matters is a misguided assertion. We are not persistent or continuous. Our awareness, or sense of self is fragmented each time we go to sleep. When we wake up, we are not “exactly” the same as when we went to bed. Our molecules and atoms have changed. If our general pattern, or arrangement of molecules is what is important, because of the state or condition they produce, and that pattern can be replicated by another medium or substrate, then Max has got it right 👍🏼 Love this show ✌🏼❤️
I have been aware of spirit from an early age, it can be wonderful but very scary, when you experience spirit it stays with you all your life, no one believes you but it doesnt matter as you know the truth, i cant explain it but i know its true.
This is one field where philosophy can truly shine in all it's glory, can we disrupt death. There's not a single term or smallest event that should be overlooked when examining this phenomena, yet not many minds dedicated their life to that project. It's because we're hopeless right from a start. Nobody ever survived, there's nothing to tell what hadn't already been spoken about subject. What do we mean by death, it's something, like transition from animate to inanimate state, maybe we should start with a word.
Nice work. I appreciate the different views. Did you consider interviewing Donald Hoffman, who considers consciousness as fundamental? We can go on forever here.
@@raeds8218 You had no conception because you were nothing. When you were conceived, you were one cell - no brain, no nervous system, no consciousness at all. And before that one cell you did not exist. Nothing. That’s what we all have been for 14billion years till the chance of our birth. And once we die, we will once again be nothing for however long time continues. No “soul”, no metaphysical existence beyond death. Those are just concepts born from the arrogance of our consciousness - we think, therefore we believe we are important. The universe doesn’t think so.
@@paulk2257 Wow, seems you have some insider information! So assured you are right, that you can’t possibly be wrong, the all seeing and all knowing, paul k. Let’s wrap up this channel then and quit wasting time, as the oracle, paul k, has solved it!
@@TheFragilityOfIdeas I could mention minor nuisances like facts and evidence but they are irrelevant to those who just wish to believe. I could also tell you that over 90% of scientists globally will agree with me. Buy how about when you experience that bliss you come back and tell us all about it…
It is not all of life to live, nor yet all of death to die. For life and death are one, and only those who will consider the experience as one may come to understand or to comprehend what peace indeed means. ~ Robert Grant
robert kuhn, you need to talk to dr. bruce greyson and also look at the university of virginia consciousness studies dept. they got a ton of compelling evidence.
I don't agree that I'm different in a deep sense today than in my earlier ages. I'm 75, and I can confidently say that there is a core of me that's the same since I was a teen. My experiences have increased, but I feel like I'm actually more "me" than I was when I was 14. It's that sense of "self" that's so hard to define and explain, and nothing here gave me any insight into that.
Thank you, Julian, for making the valid point regarding the "self" that most people mistake as being true identity. It was never who we were. It can't. We are much grander than a concept of the mind.
Thanks again for another thoughtful video. The key argument, to which you alluded, is continuity. The thought experiment that I think is definitive regarding uploading or cloning, is that the moment after duplicates are created, if a stranger had a gun and was going to shoot one of the duplicates, each duplicate would point away from itself proving that each had its own separate identity and consciousness. In the case of cryonics, if the process physically worked but if, upon being revived, the person had no recollection of who he or she was, the process would have failed because there was no continuity. When and if it is possible to implant a super computer into our brains, and being incorporated into consciousness, allowing redundancy. In such a case, the brain could die with only partial loss of identity due to continuity.
What disturbs me is the fact that losing self consciousness is a daily thing that happens (when you sleep, when someone goes in coma, etc…), so the idea of dying and consciousness disappearance brings an uncomfortable feeling, but it is not nothing exceptional. If we accept we lose consciousness when we sleep, we could as well accept we could lose it forever.
My simple idea is that consciousness is fundamental, a field or energy that the physical mind is able to “receive” and experience in a body, like the internet in a computer or a radio picking up a broadcast. Any brain sufficiently advanced, can receive the signal, it’s all one consciousness expressing itself in many different forms.
@Reed Marcotte We're saying the same thing more or less. Every cell is unique. My question is if we try to duplicate an organism in software (AI), how could we model such a variety of cell characteristics?
We cannot speak of any unbearable lightness, but an unbearable weight (or responsibility) of being, and that is, that consciousness (in terms of life in any dimension or scale) will never end, because it is timeless.
Robert, if you want to know about the survival of consciousness beyond the death transition, ask an expert in the field. I'm president of the Afterlife Research and Education Institute. There are volumes of evidence that we live beyond the body. We're far beyond wondering about that. We're now focused on developing means of communicating. Go to afterlifeinstitute.org.
Not just that but also we would have no idea this planet wold ever form in the first place 😐in fact we were most likely all ready dead before we came into this world in the first place 😐
Why would you want be who you are now forever? You or nobody has ever been who they are forever! We are everlasting awareness in consistently changing avatars...I believe that whole heartedly
I think just like experience of life is different for different individuals, death also is not same for everyone. We all have different after-death fates depending upon our dispositions & personality types: 1)some of us may have a continuity of consciousness after death by evolving in a spiritual world, 2)some get reincarnated back on this earth in another body, 3)and some may just vanish after brain death! In other words, afterlife is a qualification, not a natural right!
that discussion about the one first person experience 'I'....That's why I liked the game 'Soma' so much. Goes with the premise of the perfect copy of the mind uploaded to another body (actually a machine body). That 'I' character then feels like the original 'I', no different and in continuity (comparable to waking up after sleep). He then rather struggles with the fact that there's another one left behind that feels absolutely the same. I don't think that works without all the connections to the body and all the organs though, that would have to be replicated too
This guy, Julian is crazy, Robert’s reaction was exactly my reaction, and his response was exactly mine as well to Julian. Most would like to live forever, especially if family and friends could, and remain healthy and young, it’s all conditional really. But if those conditions could be met, then of course. I’ve heard arguments of getting bored, but it’s a false premise. I never get bored with eating each day because there’s many variety of food to consume, even though I’ve lived 70 years now. Because each time is like the very first time when you get hungry and enjoy the routine so much. So if the enjoyments never goes away then yes you would never get board ,even for an eternity. The only thing that changes that is when your quality of life descends, then maybe that argument would have merit. Julian send me that pill😊 I’ll make sure to give it to my loved ones as well. 👍😊
I think the problem with all these knowledge about consciousness, the expert never try meditation which is a gateway to our consciousness. People who have meditated have experience paradigm shift in their view of our mind/ body relationship.
How do past lives work? Past life regression. Past life regression is a technique that uses hypnosis to recover what practitioners believe are memories of past lives or incarnations. ... Once created, those memories are indistinguishable from memories based on events that occurred during the subject's life.
@@Sarah91086 Eat some shrooms; just enough to make you sick and helpless. I believe that the sense of time distortion, and of the ego/self blinking in and out as the brain goes haywire is probably a good example of what it feels like to die and be reborn. Many people would call it a bad trip, because it doesn't feel good to go in and out like that. I'm starting to think that maybe that's what death is like, except that when you really die,, you *blink* across space/time to another realm to become something else in another medium. The inbetween part? I hope it's either fast, or more comfortable than taking too many shrooms. Those insidey-out feelings suck. Or maybe it's not another realm; if time is really an illusion, we could all be the same...thing; living eachother's lives -which is why it's really really important to be reasonably nice to eachother...
Even if my computer's electrical activity is zero it does not mean that it is broken or that it no longer works ... it is just on standby. If our brains appear inactive or dead to our rudimentary instruments, that doesn't mean it's dead. I think as long as we 'come back to life' our brain was not damaged, but was just in hybernation mode maintaining minimal activity.
Conciousness is at the same time a wonderful and a terrifying gift the nature and evolution gave to human creatures. Source of all religions, that are all nothing but a way to anesthetize our terrifying awareness of the unavoidable vanishing of our "selves". Why are we so frightened about the "after"? Should'nt we be terrified by the "before" as well? I personally feel the same feeling of distress for both the after and the before..what and where was "myself" before I born? Likely in the same place I'll go when I'll die. That is, nothingness. Sad indeed. But unavoidable, I think.
Well you can't conceive of it. And when we try to, the closest we can get is imagining living forever on this earth in this body. But if the core you, much like the core you that would still remain if you could live for 300 years ( even undergoing many more changes ) would still he there.. could exist apart from the mind. If consciousness is non - nocal and exists past the physical mind then this is eternally living forever, and it would NOT be frightening in this way as fright is a physical emotion. I don't know that consciousness is non local.. but the very fact that I'm conscious now is strange enough. And for the simple fact that there's nothing in science, physics or in this universe that points to, or even begins to paint the first image for the emergence or reason for consciousness. It may well be that all things are conscious and in some ways may even experience higher vibrant states of consciousness just because they're not weighed down by the things humans are, like language or the problems and things that humans are inundated with that begin to pile up over time.. so their consciousness isn't blunted. Much like when I was a kid, at least speaking for myself as I'm sure it's the same with many people, that when you're a child, consciousness is more vibrant and has more vigor to it. And as we age it becomes blunted or faded. The idea of centering ourselves, or equilibrium and shedding the excess thoughts and problems and baggage of daily life that weighs us down, is a way of returning to our roots, or the states of consciousness that we experienced much younger.
In a measurable sense, death appears to be the cessation of consciousness. But, in the subjective sense, what ends at death is awareness of a body-perspective; the sense of identity-as pretty much all sensory or emotional input-is significantly heightened.
Some philosopher once said: "When I am, there's no death. When there's death, I am not." So, perhaps we shouldn't fear death, because we never experience death. If I experience something, I am alive. If I die, I do not know that I am dead. It's like sleeping; When you sleep, you don't know you are sleeping. You only know you slept when you are awake. Death is sleeping without dreams.
Disappointing to see someone base much of his argument on an extreme overstatement of how unreliable memory is. The studies that show such unreliability are a tiny foundation upon which to built a complete understanding of how much people change over time. Yes, people can have false memories. No, we're not *defined* by them. Also, the "eternal succession of selves" to argue that immortality would be meaningless is sophistry. If it's fine until now it'd be fine for as long as we can have it. Also, Robert should actually dive deeper into NDE reports. They're well beyond the level of "anecdotes" in how many have been reported over time, and how many people have at least reported experiencing them. What they mean we don't really know, but that people really do experience them should be beyond question at this point. This coupled with reports of these people experiencing and perceiving events around them that they should not have been able to experience and perceive. It's valid to suggest that consciousness may linger after brain activity stops, but NDEs include details from external events to experiencing them as hyperrealistic to being downright life changing for better or worse in ways that's hard to explain just through lingering consciousness. Such may not change his mind, which is fine, but this goes deeper than the superficial coverage in this video.
12:30 the SHADE. Then again, I agree with Kuhn. If it is possible to coexist with your twin, it means the person in the other body isn't "you" even if they think they are. So it doesn't matter if you die just before the twin starts living. In that bet you're just agreeing to die so someone else who believes to be you can get a lot of money.
Death when it came was already destined to be annihilated. At the beginning, there is a singularity (The Fall) and at the end there is another singularity (the appearance of the Superhuman). The difference between the Human and the Superhuman state is an Information of infinite dimension, which allows for stability and an Entropy close to zero. In this state, Death is impossible, as there are no time-dependent degradations. (In fact, the process is much more complicated than this simple scheme, adapted to the small space).
Dr Kuhn, I am disappointed that you did not talk to any anesthesiologists. After all, these are the guys that turn consciousness off and on, effectively putting their patients into a death state (death state being defined as a state where the corporeal body is "unaware" of 'outside' events... such as it's corporeal body having limbs amputated, hearts removed, etc.) It's been awhile, but I was once involved in a very serious motorcycle accident and for over forty hours could not even remember my name. Huh. Some years later, I underwent surgery and was gassed, and for about three hours I was a blank. No dreams, no memories. Countdown, 10, 9, 8, 7, blank. Then suddenly, it's morning, I'm in a different room and it's and breakfast with jolly nurses. What's the difference between sudden shock or deliberate gassing ?
To me, the conversation with Max More supposes consciousness is a function of the brain, -- it's "patterns" -- as though our patterns of interpretation of reality, for instance, our interpretation of vision or touch, is stored inside us, in a vacuum. But rather, is it not the case that "who" we really are as conscious beings is the reality suspended in the matrix between our own singular body and the body of the larger world which we are a part and is also our own? I do not feel touch or see images somewhere inside me, independently of the "outer world," but I am rather defined by the feeling of the reaction of one body's skin and nervous system, between what is the "inside me" and "outside me." We see the world from the perspective of just beyond the surface of what is inside our bodies. We do not feel as though we see from inside our eyeballs, but more-so as though we live in the place between the surface of our "inner" and "outer" worlds, simultaneously. I think consciousness, is not something confined to an independent body in a vacuum, but it is the negotiation of forces between individual bodies within the collective of which all is a series of subsets.
I think we must recognize the opinions about after-life expressed in this video are narrow and only offer limited philosophical opinions which are constrained by your guests' ability to craft their argument and state their opinion. You should have included hospice nurses, Eden Alexander, MD and Ray Moody, MD to provide a much broader discussion of after-life instead of limiting the discussion to philosophical argument.
As Muslims we understand that death is a hiatus and then reincarnation of the same body happens with the same consciousness, very similar to going to sleep and then waking up.
His continuity theory is due to not understanding the purpose of our experience here on earth. Our core soul essence has nothing to do with age or time for that matter. It just is. And was and always will be. Age and time is only relevant here in the 3rd dimension. Only our human selves go through the aging process. The soul does not. It just exists. When it transitions, it transitions as a soul, not a human if that makes any sense. In other words, who we came in as, is who go out as. When I had a NDE I had all this knowledge and awareness of the ultimate truth of our existence shown or given to me. I remembered who I was as a soul and everything I had just gone through on earth seemed like it all happened in a short period of time and there was no judgment. I had an OBE at age 7 and a NDE/ADC at age 46.
Q: When does a child gain conscious, self awareness? A: Sometime between 15 and 24 months. Q: Does this occur by non-physical osmosis or physical brain development? A: ?
An afterlife would almost certainly require a god. That god would likely be the creator of the universe. You would then be proposing a grander and more powerful entity to explain the universe than the problem of the universe itself. That is not a logical progression or in line with current cosmology. A naturalistic approach provides the answers to a reasonable degree, we don't know everything and never will, but the main boxes are ticked! I have been resigned to making the most of my time on earth and when I'm gone, I will not suffer. Live life to the full, make it as good as you can for yourself and others. That is the ultimate goal!
Beacuse your consciousness is all about the brain 😐without a brain well…..your so called brain dead you don’t feel you don’t see or here anything after all before we were ever born we were most likely dead 😐we just don’t think about it Beacuse we are alive 😐I feel that the concept could be one big joke 😐after all before we came into this world we were all ready dead 😑and yet here we are 😐only to die again 😐like I said life is short but it feels long and as for death it’s long but it feels so short 😐also we say death is final however we’re we all ready dead before we came into this world ?😐so it’s like… wt? 😐
To fear constantly death during life will amount to one not living life. Living is to maximise knowledge and experience equating to wisdom, consciousness is attached to one however not part of one evolving over vast time through different personalities. You will only see this once you shed your fear.
Is the universe we live in a unique event, one time and no more? Doesn't sound plausible to me. As a consequence, the experience we have in this universe as conscious beings with a sense of self is probably not a unique event but will happen again and again (not in the same universe of course, but fortunately, time ceases to exist when you are dead, so a hundred billion years to the end of our universe means nothing ). It will have no relation to who you are now but that doesn't matter, the experience of being alive will be the same. Just as you are now, without links to some previous life but just alive. You don't care that you're not Robert Lawrence Kuhn if you are somebody else (unless you think he has a better life than you do : )
Time does not seance to exist when your dead you just loose track of time 😑think about before you were born 😐you had no brain you had no brain and when you die your brain will disintegrate into nothing…again 😑
Haven’t we all not existed before though? Before our conception, where were we? Do any of us remember? Death seems like the fear of something we’ll have no awareness of anyway. Do we walk around afraid of the time before we existed here on Earth? No we don’t. So why are we afraid of the after? One would allow a surgeon to perform an operation on them under anesthesia. Why? Because we would have no awareness of the experience while unconscious, we have not a clue what is happening to us, to our bodies or anything around us, and hopefully we’ll wake up better. “Hopefully”...yet we’ll still go through with it. Maybe it’s like that in death. Why fear it if you’ll have no conscious awareness that it happened at all...and (hopefully) we wake up on the other side...
I agree in fact we were all ready long dead before we even came into existence in the first place 😑in fact our experience in death will be the same as if we did not life in the first place 😐
It is counterintuitive, but Max has to be right if there is no soul. Each copy of you, has to have the same continuity of inner awareness. Nothing less than "original". Imagine if you went to sleep, and while you are not conscious, someone makes one more identical physical copy of you. Which one is you is "you" in the morning? How can one copy be more "you" than the other, if they are identical? How can you explain that one of the identical copies is your continuation, and another one isn't, if both copies are physically identical?
Every day signifies a mini life. When you wake at sunrise it's a new birth. As the day progresses it's a mini life. In the evening when the sun is going down is the most beautiful time of day. When the moon rises you fall asleep and dream. That in a nutshell is the cycle of life and death on a small scale. The four seasons are the same on a larger scale. Spring is like morning or new birth, summer is the noonday when the sun is high and you're in the prime of your life, evening is autumn the most beautiful time of the year, with the color of the changing leaves, evening the sky is the most beautiful purple, pink, fiery orange and blue. Then the silvery moon slowly rises in a blue velvet sky and you're at peace. You become drowsy, you close your eyes, and sleep sets in. It's winter at this stage where everything is covered in snow and frost. All of nature falls to sleep and rests. Then in the spring, the cycle begins again. Therefore death should not be feared. I believe death is misunderstood. Once death is understood, there is no more fear.
The only thing that dies is the brain 😐ware we will go hell of I know 🙂but my best hypothesis we will end up in the same spot as if we did not live in the first place 😐
*Sir, the question is less complicated than you think: If you make a clone of yourself, will it be you ? Will your "first person awereness" be transferred to it, or it would be only a copy ? There´s a great difference between a personality transfer and a copy. You may continue to be you in the old body, but there will be a copy of "yous" acting like you, thinking like you, but he won´t be YOU.*
@@jettmthebluedragon Just imagine: if just now some lab make a clone of you without you knowing, and this clone arrive at your presence, you'd see him in front of you, would you stop being you ? Would you stop feeling your self as you do now ? No. When you have a son, you don't stop being you. When you have a clone, you don't stop being you. There could be millions of clones of you walking on the streets, but each one is another person, you wouldn't know what he is thinking, because you only know what you self is experiencing.
@@DihelsonMendonca well theirs only one of me 😐as for I see the world from first person point of view maybe I always have seen the world from first person point of view of life and death 😐it’s just…strange 😓
@@jettmthebluedragon Yes. It's this "first person experiencing the world" I'm referring. Scientists and researchers call it self awareness. It's the awareness that we have of ourselves. We can't experience the world from other heads, just ours. So, I think although it's perfectly possible that with future technology, people make clones, or even download the entire knowledge and memories from a person, or recreate "Albert Einstein's mind" based on his thoughts and facts, through artificial intelligence, this new being would not be the real Einstein brought from the dead, it's just a bunch of recollections from his diaries, thoughts, and interviews. It's not the real Einstein awareness. On the other hand, something intrigues me: Many people accept that we have a spirit, or a soul which survives after death. I keep asking to myself, what happens to this awareness, or consciousness if for example, this person was completely frozen for 1 million years and brought to life again, intact ? Where his "spirit, or soul would have "traveled" or was for a million years ? It's difficult to accept that. But I believe one day with genetic engineering and technology, man will live almost forever, changing the body and preserving his brain. The day they could finally successfully make a head or brain transplant to a cloned body, a new era will begin. And even now the secrets of ageing are being discovered, with AI developing substances that would stop and even reverse age.
Skepticism regarding life after death is baked into the very fabric of our earthly existence. In other words, we are operating at a fixed level of consciousness that (for a very good reason) does not allow us to peer beyond the veil of death. We cannot be allowed to know for certain whether life after death is true or not. Why?.... Because if every human knew beyond any shadow of a doubt that not only does there exist a higher dimension of reality where we will each live eternally in a completely new and wondrous form and setting,... ...but also, that entrance into that higher realm is absolutely guaranteed no matter what,... ...then rest assured that such knowledge would long ago have compelled our earliest ancestors to find a quick and easy means of ending their earthly lives in order to avoid the misery of enduring the hardships of physical survival on this planet. And what that means is that you and I and all of the 7.8 billion other humans on earth would never have received the gift of life via the human birthing system, because all human bodies would have been eliminated from the very start. As silly as this may sound, if humans were allowed to possess the absolute and irrefutable knowledge that their lives would continue on forever following the death of their physical body, it would be the metaphorical equivalent of giving God a “hysterectomy.” If any of that is at all interesting to you, then have a look at my more in-depth reasoning on the subject, along with my 100+ personal drawings and illustrations on my website - www.theultimateseeds.com _______
I read your site, and i like the imagination involved, but there is too much conjecture, too much analogy, and i get a sense of religious scripture from it. It is not useful to people who are truly curious to be given such a full account of things based on conjecture and imagination. Your essentially selling us a story. I really truly don't mean offence, but i am unsure what you want us to get out of this. Do you want me to say i believe you, and the what? If you want the idea to be probed and tested, then why don't you talk about problems with your idea, or ways it can be tested? As a skeptic, i find their to be very emotive and alluring language in your ideas, and it remind me very much of human stories of creation made for comfort and to give us a sense of importance.
@@richardtucker5938 Hi Richard, and thanks for your reply. Yes, it is a "story" - a story that I fully admit could be wrong. However, for millennia we've been living with a variety of stories (Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc.) that, due to their incompatibility with each other, have us teetering on the edge global destruction. Furthermore, the modern discoveries in cosmology, quantum physics, and all of the sciences in general, have exposed those stories as being nothing more than mythological nonsense, and have made it clear that they have run their course and need to be replaced with something that makes more sense - something that emphasizes that our ultimate destiny... (be it eternal life in a higher context of reality - or - eternal oblivion because life truly ends at the moment of physical death) ...is going to be the same for all of us, and has absolutely nothing to do with what we did or didn't do (or believed or didn't believe) during our momentary existence on this planet. Don't you think it's time for a *new* "story"? _______
@@TheUltimateSeeds I understand, but honestly no I don't think it's time for a new story. I think given what you pointed out about previous stories... That it's time to stop telling stories. We have a story of discovery which is ongoing and I think we must settle for that, in that we haven't finished reading or even writing the book yet.
@@richardtucker5938 But literally billions of humans rely on the kind of comfort, solace, and, most importantly, the *"hope"* that religious stories (spiritual affirmations regarding an afterlife) provide them. Do you wish to strip that away from them? And replace it with what? Materialism? Nihilism? Furthermore, how do you suggest we account for the unfathomable order of the universe if, indeed, the idea of it being a product of the blind and mindless processes of chance is pure and utter nonsense? _______
@@TheUltimateSeeds I am not making the claim that people should not find spiritual comfort, or that the order apparent in the universe is necessarily chance. But the story you propose is a product of your imagination, how can i reconcile that with seeking truth? It may hinder us more than help. I applaud and respect your motive, but not your method. "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
In octobre of 2008 I had an aortic aneurysm start flaking and tearing on my aortic root When my heart stopped for 3:33 I left this realm and went to what the bible describes as Hades I could smell sulfur,and feel the small demons biting me I was burning up and then towards the end of my experience the pain stopped instantly and I could breathe again A caucasian looking giant angel w golden flowing hair grabbed me and then I awoke on the living room floor with paramedics shining light in my eyes They performed difibralation and poked my cardiac sack with a needle draining the blood that had leaked out. Im lucky to be alive I can assure all death is hell All pain is healing And this is not our only life Ive contemplated it many times we are destined for an afterlife. Even if that afterlife is only a halucination(SeemedLikeForever),it frees the soul from hell The angel was the paramedic
If consciousness stays after death then how was it proved to be there. What was definition of death? and what was definition of consciousness? How can one observe that consciousness stayed after death? I am skeptical on the Doctor's claim.
It seems like you must know the truth to find the truth. There doesn't seem to be enough evidence or tools to do the job justice. If we actually thoroughly understood consciousness maybe we could create a backup. A catch 22. No one who comes back ever thinks to even attempt to ask the deity they see anything useful. Not that I would expect a understandable answer. The only time I ever heard a great question was during an alien abduction scenario the person asked "are you an angel". The alien replied "yes, but not one as you have been taught".
I think it very interesting to ask what is the now moment, the present moment. Is there such thing as an absolute now in the universe without awarness. Present moment is only subjective, if so can i claim than, someone who is dead for me at this moment could be alive in his or her now moment. can we say that consciousness not only exists simultaneously in different places but in different times as well. Had i waited longer to come into existence than someone who has born 20, 000 years ago, no. We came into existence at the same time.
@@singsangsungable yes it is same, and his theory actualy proofs that. But very interesting is that same idea was mentioned 3000years ago by yogies and many more which becomes very popular nowadays especially with the development of quantum mechanics.
Actually yes your mind and body at age 5 are/were different than age 55, however the sense of self doesn't seem to change at all, the memory you have from age 5 can be corrupted but the perception-mechanism of that memory is no different at age 5 or at age 55. Extrapolate that to back to when "you" were an embryo with only a few brain cells ..were you still "you" at that time ??? , when did "you" start ??? did "you" randomly begin some day at age 1 ? or 2? or 3?
Max is off the Mark, I feel. Robert is correct in saying that his 'I' would cease to exist. Max says this isn't a problem unless the experiences diverge greatly, and well duh; of course 10 exactly similar Maxes are going to have 10 radically different experiences. The second the first one becomes aware that he is the first replication that's going to create a different ego than the person created second, and so on. Maybe he is correct in thinking the personal 'I' doesn't matter, and that there's no soul attached. But maybe not. Robert is all about being certain and Max has accepted his fate.
That one guy who just wanted to make copies of himself has convinced himself that he doesn't really exist as a person, just a pattern. Plus, what egotism to imagine that your personality and opinions are so important that they need to go on after you die. The graveyard is full of indispensable men buddy. What good is a future where "I" am not there? I can make new memories, and everyone could use a little personality work, but there is only one "me" and I'm him. On the old Star Trek show, Dr McCoy made that point. As far as he knows, he died the first time he used the transporter, so what difference does it make to go again.
I can't believe I'm just finding this now. I wish this series was pushed more on RUclips.
Welcome
Welcome, TBallard! Closer to Truth simply the best!
Its published enough!
and when you think about it... the show is actually quite old... but i guess people didn't know about it.
Why is someone always stealing my thoughts😝 I was going to post that
When my father died back in 2004,I had a dream a few days later after his death in my sleep 'where everything seemed so real' he was working repairing a shed roof on a ladder, I was shocked to see him,I said to him 'but you are dead' he replied ' I am not dead what are you talking about l am here'
That was back in 2004 (17+ years ago now) I still remember this dream to this day,it still haunts and upsets me.
Julian Baggini, we are constantly changing. Yes, but consciousness is constant. There is a constant I. It's always me, even if my personality changes.
This channel should have millions of subscriptions! Such high quality production and content.
Imagine a world where Closer to Truth episodes were some of the top trending videos on RUclips.
Instead it's a grown man playing with Legos.
🤔
It has good topics but too many ads That may be a reason why
Just look at what our world has turned into. it seems people just don't want to think too hard especially the millennials. all they know is playing games on their cell phones listening to loud music and other nonsense. America's worst generation in my opinion.
the best show of all time.
Deep throat is
You're going through the same philosophical struggles that all the great thinkers have gone through -- wrestling with how a conscious mind with a lineage of personal experiences and individual character can just "vanish". This anguish is at the heart of the very earliest death rituals. It is a part of the grief process that even animals experience -- loss of loved ones, and wondering where they went, and where we shall go. It's a statement about our plight that 10s or perhaps 100s of thousands of years later we're still no closer to coming to a definitive answer. No shortage of beliefs of course, but no undeniable factual answer. Other than... "we're gone". A slap in the face to human dignity.
That’s the thing… it doesn’t vanish. It’s just recorded in our DNA and passed to our descendants.
@@entombedmachine1518 even though you are correct the DNA we pass to our descendants isn’t us it is only half of us .. the other half comes from your partner so it isn’t a total copy of oneself.. and as the generations March on your DNA will be totally different
What if you can't have kids
@@entombedmachine1518 Your memories and character are not contained in your DNA. They're not talking about making a clone of someone- that would only create what would amount to a twin. They're talking about recreating not only a person's DNA but every single particle that makes up their body- and the spins, charges, etc.- of those particles. In theory, if you did that- the resulting person would be them- complete with all their memories and emotions and everything. And the specific point they were making is that even if you did this- it does nothing to lessen a person's sense of self, they still feel like them- and they're still going to have self-preservation instincts and not want to die. And so- have you really recreated them?
I would say- yes, you've made a copy- but that doesn't mean someone is all the sudden going to be ok with death. You didn't transfer consciousness- you made a copy of it, the original still exists and they will fight to stay alive. I'm not sure why that seems like a logical inconsistency to some ppl. The key here is that you copied it, you didn't transfer it- and that's a huge difference. In fact, I suspect that you can't just copy it- I suspect that the process of copying the information will destroy it. Otherwise, you're creating a person from what seems like nothing- you start with one person- now you have two- with no cost? That doesn't feel right- it feels much more right to think that the process of copying it will require the destruction of the original source. Which sort of makes sense because we already know that measuring or observing a quantum system changes it. Since you would be recording the quantum properties of each particle- you would change each particle simply by observing, measuring, and recording its properties. Which would mean when you got done- that person wouldn't be that person anymore. The set of quantum values that made them "Bob" has been changed. Now they're just like the "medium" you're about to download them into I guess- whatever it is.
@@stoneysdead689
“The key here is that you copied it, you didn't transfer it- and that's a huge difference.”
Exactly!! Well said!! The problem is that a strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism is literally self refuting. It inevitably leads to fatalism and epistemological nihilism and inevitably suicidal ideation. Especially if you are intellectually honest enough to live it out consistently.
The fact is that no one has ever empirically observed “matter” outside and independent of Mind and Consciousness for we are forever locked in (mind) and (consciousness). All we can observe are the contents of perception, which are inherently mental. Even the output of measurement instruments is only accessible to us insofar as it is mentally perceived.
We usually infer the unknown from the known not the unknown, that is “matter” to the known which is (Mind and Consciousness). This reverses the logical direction of inference which is why the theoretical abstraction of mind known as “matter” is clearly not the fundamental primitive. It leads to an absurdity!!
At least be a consistent strictly reductive materialist, atheist or philosophical naturalist, that is at least be a consistent fatalist and epistemological nihilist because according to the greatest atheist thinkers who ever lived…
Logic is an illusion (Nietzsche)
“Truths are illusions which we have forgotten are illusions.”
- (Nietzsche, Reference from: On Truth and Lies in a Nonmoral Sense).
“Should I kill myself?” is the essential philosophical question.” (Albert Camus). Merry chap but at least he’s “logically” consistent with his atheism!!
“Suppose we want truth: why not rather untruth? and uncertainty? even ignorance?” - (Nietzsche).
“You can not get an (ought) out of an (is)” - (David Hume)
“Storytellers continue their narratives late into the night to forestall death and to delay the inevitable moment when everyone must fall silent.” (Foucault).
Life is an “horror” and “truth” is “illusory”. (Nietzsche)
Imagine telling all of these little stories to someone as a Christmas bed time story? And “new atheists” mock our beliefs!!
Their world view, their absurdity, their ULTIMATELY MEANINGLESS, HOLLOW AND SOULLESS APE, their existential crisis and their epistemological crisis not the theists!!
And a very cheerful group of people I bet they were a blast at Christenings, birthday parties, and especially at golden wedding anniversaries and especially at funerals!! Cheerful group of people but at least they are intellectually honest and “logically” consistent with their strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism!!
This is one of the best series I have ever come across. I have thought about this stuff from the time I can remember , I am 66 years old. I haven't owned a TV in 25 years and only became aware of this program a few months ago. Robert asks the same questions I have , the only difference , I don't fear the concept of death. I have recommended this series to people close to me. The thinking persons series.
Ok,I’ve been watching Closer To Truth for a bit now. This is by far my favorite episode.
There's nothing like this show anywhere, I'm addicted
Dr Parnia, always a pleasure listening to you.thank you
Wow, how could I not find out about this channel earlier?
I can relate to so much that has been said here. I feel like being on the same hunt for truth.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and your findings.
I absolutely don't get the fact that this channel doesn't get millions of views. Some of the best content you can find on RUclips
Too long and well-researched for most people’s attention spans. Basically the anti-VSauce.
Ha I said the same thing about a year ago. I think most people just don't really care to be educated ha ha
Because it doesn't give you answers, more some sort of opinions and discussions. Noone can gives you a answer.
@@masterpNL1983 I disagree. I admit that it's a bit frustrating at the end when the episode ends with more questions than answers, but that doesn't make it less interesting. Listening to the opinions of some of the brightest people out there about the deepest questions we ask ourselves is very interesting and insightful. It gives us different perspectives to deal with those questions
Death is not the cessation of consciousness, rather an event in consciousness.
What exactly prompts you to say that?
Ram Sharma Much has been written about, and theorized on, the subject of consciousness. Search on it, then have fun.
Proof? Extraordinary claims and all that.. NEAR Death Experiences won't cut it, nore will quantum entanglement.... How many dead people have conciously talked to you recently...... I hope for your santity the answer is none, ever... But to be fair to your vague comment you may mean conciousness continues for some time after the heart and/or brainwaves stop .. I believe you're not truly dead until your brain (and/or body?) has rotted enough for it to be impossible for conciousness to be restarted in a functional way.
@@werquantum I completely understand. However, I seem to think that just because certain topics have been, as you've said, "written about" or "theorized on", doesn't necessarily mean that the contents of the topic are true, but much rather proves that the topic itself is simply controversial. All meta-physical claims have been subject to theoretical speculation as well as being the basis upon which several notable literary works have been composed, but again, this does not affirm it's validity. The only thing validified here is that NDE's and consciousness are contentious topics. I would say that there are numerous arguments, theories or literary works which detest or oppose the existence of NDE's/Consciousness as there are arguments, theories or literary works which seem to be in favour of it. Controversial topics, such as that of which we took to discuss, undoubtedly has several perspectives, opinions and arguments both in favour and not in favour of its validity; after all, that is what makes the topic controversial. But again, the presence of controversy should not be the basis upon which we take to measure validity.
Utter bullshit!
If humans have souls and live on after death then so might every creature on Earth. Imagine meeting the soul of last night’s dinner.
Have you ever had a discussion with your meal?
Laur Manolescu . Often, albeit one sided. My family and I eat a lot of fish, all caught by me. I usually apologise for the pain I cause when I take the hook out of their mouths. Regarding souls and consciousness I think my beloved dog certainly has the latter and if I thought I had a soul then I would definitely think he does too. And by extension all living creatures. But I don’t think I have a soul.
Life is but a hiccup of consciousness between oblivions.
Not much going on there. A fish's soul would carry on swimming in that context.
Jeff Amos . Not keen on meeting anyone else’s.
I’m more inclined to believe that animals have souls than that humans do. Most humans are incredibly evil
About consciousness, and the loss of it at death, I ask the question ... would the universe, would reality, mother nature, god, etc. ... be so wasteful as to lose consciousness? Also, nothing is destroyed, as mentioned, its only change that occurs, so the perhaps unanswerable is what change occurs after physical body death? Could consciousness and the organization involved in it, somehow connected at some level of the universe such that it simply slips to some other domain?
I think that when we die we wake up in another aspect and we think we were dreaming and usually forget it like we do most dreams. I think sometimes we remember and may take some memories with us. I also believe we may reincarnate if we wish and remember our former life. I don't think there is a God. I think we are all aspects of God and we may be born again and again as corporeal physical beings to appreciate our magnificent CREATION with fresh, young senses.
I am the awernes that appears as you and me, we are One😷😈😷😇😷😍
Totally agree with you!. We can only speculate.
Nevertheless, the belief that there is no evidence of a non “physical” consciousness depends on what your definition of “physical matter” is. Recent evidence suggests that consciousness could be related to quantum vibrations in the neuro tubule receptors in the brain. It speaks volumes that at the quantum level you have “objects” that are massless, invisible, impossible to measure completely that can influence each other over great distance and can also paradoxically be in the same place at the same time (Bi locational). I’m just speculating but our previous “materialistic” Newtonian concept of matter, time and space seems to crumble under the weight of evidence from quantum theory. Similarly, after the death of an old friend Einstein stated...
“That means nothing. People like us ... know that the distinction between past, present and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion."
Interestingly, recent research suggests that Einstein was right, death is an illusion as reality appears to have a non linear dimensionality.
All the best to you and keep safe during this Corona virus crisis.
@@georgedoyle7971 9
@@Aftrbrnr
“9”
Did you hear the one about the overgrown amoeba with illusions of grandeur who thought he was nothing more substantive than an ULTIMATELY MEANINGLESS, HOLLOW AND SOULLESS APE who shares half their DNA with BANANAS? He was a right NUT job as he thought that APE have magical value because APE say APE have magical value!!
He was a right FRUIT AND NUT CAKE as well as he wasted his “finite” life ironically proselytising about ultimately meaningless, fatalistic, nihilistic word games. And he thought that “he” wasn’t objectively real either as “he” thought that “he” was just a subjective, arbitrary, social construct, an arbitrary cultural relativist, that is as arbitrary as the fact that we evolved five fingers instead of six!!
Nothing more substantive than the ultimately meaningless, ultimately purposeless, accidental arrangement of random atoms and brain chemicals creating the illusion of stable patterns and regularities!! That is nothing more substantive than the brains [USER ILLUSION OF SELF], a determined machine, a chemical P zombie, that is nothing more substantive than a chemical and biological meat robot right?
That is nothing more substantive than a “MONKEY” BRAIN IN A VAT. The ultimately meaningless, accidental arrangement of pond slime evolved to an allegedly “HIGHER” order right?
Nothing more substantive than the ultimately meaningless science project of vinegar and baking soda accidentally bubbling over, a JOKE on the universe with the illusion of consciousness/free will, that is the illusion of the “RATIONAL AND MORAL HIGH GROUND” LOL. He went BANANAS in the end!!
Drum role!! Kerching!! Applause!! [GOTCHA!!] “9”!!
Your world view, your absurdity, your ULTIMATELY MEANINGLESS, HOLLOW AND SOULLESS APE, your existential crisis and your epistemological crisis not the theists!!
Everyone has a right to believe what they want and everyone including theists have a right to find it totally ridiculous, totally nihilistic, totally fatalistic and totally and utterly self refuting!! Prove me “WRONG”? I’ll wait!!
Some of the materialists seem to have absolutely no grasp of the very basic concept of first-person awareness. It's almost as if they are trying to explain it away. I don't think they understand the interviewer's basic question: can I (first-person subjectivity) survive after death?
This question seeks an answer to whether or not my first-person consciousness continues after death. The materialists reply by talking about replicas of you (devoid of the subjectivity that existed prior to your natural death) possibly existing. This is fine. But then they make the deep category mistake of inferring that this replica is necessarily you.
(By the way, materialists make the same mind-bending omission when some of them just deny that consciousness exists - calling it a "delusion" while ignoring the fact that a delusion presupposes consciousness).
They can't admit that there is an extremely clear distinction between the subjective me living forever and some type of a replica/twin of me living forever. A replica of you can live forever ergo you can live forever? This doesn't make sense to me.
Perhaps the materialists are trying to shoehorn the idea of an afterlife into their materialist outlook by radically redefining what "afterlife" means (a meaning totally different to what the interviewer and humanity ask when they ask: will I survive natural death?).
I think if they were being honest the materialists would answer: When you're dead, you're dead. Your lights have gone out forever. However, someone who looks and talks like you might live on. Our materialist outlook, while it makes rational sense to us, is at its core, tragic. Go somewhere else if you seek consolation.
Perhaps I'm missing something!
Awesome comment.
FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE OF AN NDE WHERE HAD A SIMULTANEOUS EXPERIENCE OF OBE ( FOR NEARLY HALF AN HOUR ) I AM 100 PERCENT SURE THAT CONSCIOUSNESS SURVIVES THE BODILY DEATH : WHILE I COULD SEE ALL AROUND ME VERY CLEARLY EVEN ACROSS ANY IMMEDIATE BARRIERS , AS ALSO HEAR ( ALTHOUGH NOT LISTEN CLEARLY BECAUSE OF NOISY ENVIRONMENT AROUND ) : I HAD NO OTHER SENSATIONS : NO PAIN OR PLEASURE , NO SKIN SENSATIONS, (PERHAPS NO KNOWLEDGE OF SMELL OR TASTE) : SENSE OF TIME REMAINED ONLY DURING THIS SPEEDING THROUGH A BRIGHT LIGHT TUNNEL : ONLY AFTER EMERGING FROM THE TUNNEL COULD I SENSE SPACE WHERE I WAS HOVERING ABOVE MY IMMOBILE BODY AND ALSO HAD A SORT OF "BIRD'S EYE VIEW " OF ALMOST EVERYTHING BELOW AND AROUND . ENTRY BACK INTO MY BODY LYING THERE WAS NOT AS DRAMATIC AS WAS THE EXIT : IT WAS SO SMOOTH AND SUDDEN THAT I CAN'T RECOLLECT ANY DETAILS . THERE WERE NO HALLUCINATIONS OR IMAGINARY WORLD PROJECTIONS WHATSOEVER DURING THIS EXPERIENCE BUT I SOMEHOW HAD THE MEMORY OF THE EXPERIENCE WHICH I SHARED WITH MY FRIEND AND COLLEAGUE ACCOMPANYING ME AT THE TIME : IN FACT IT WAS HIM WHO CONFIRMED WHAT EXACTLY HAD HAPPENED FOR HOW LONG : YES, HE WAS SURPRISED AT WHEN I DESCRIBED TO HIM WHAT HE WAS DOING DURING THE TIME I WAS OUT OF MY BODY !
EVER SINCE THAT INCIDENT ( NEED NOT CALL IT AN ACCIDENT ) MY CURIOSITY TO EXPLORE DEATH AND CONSCIOUSNESS CONTINUES TO DATE !
IT WAS AFTER SIX YEARS OF THIS EVENT THAT I WITNESSED A 104-YEAR OLD MAN TAKE TO YOGIC SAMADHI IN PRESENCE OF NEARLY THOUSAND PEOPLE INCLUDING HIS FAMILY MEMBERS, RELATIVES AND FRIENDS, OTHERS INCLUDING TWO DOCTORS WHO HAD BEEN CALLED IN ADVANCE : HE HAD ANNOUNCED HIS DATE AND TIME OF TAKING SAMADHI A WEEK IN ADVANCE AND HAD INSTRUCTED HIS FAMILY TO INVITE EVERYONE TO CELEBRATE HIS DEATH ( ACTUALLY SAMADHI WHICH IN REALITY MEANS LEAVING ONE'S BODY VOLUNTARILY : SO THAT CONSCIOUSNESS IS EXPELLED OUT OF THE PHYSICAL FRAME AND ONE GAINS THE FINAL RELEASE FROM HAVING BEEN TRAPPED FOR SO LONG) !
AS AN ADEPT YOGI HE HAD THE KNOWLEDGE AND OBVIOUSLY THE MASTERY OVER HIS BODY - MIND PROCESSES AND WAS IN POSSESSION OF THE METHOD TO CONTROL THE TRANSITION OF CONSCIOUSNESS PRINCIPLE : HE ACHIEVED HIS GOAL SUCCESSFULLY !
THIS REAL LIFE INCIDENT PROMPTED ME TO EXPLORE THE MYSTERY OF CONSCIOUSNESS FURTHER ON : DISCOVERY IS STILL ELUSIVE !
I think having persistence of self continuity being what matters is a misguided assertion. We are not persistent or continuous. Our awareness, or sense of self is fragmented each time we go to sleep. When we wake up, we are not “exactly” the same as when we went to bed. Our molecules and atoms have changed. If our general pattern, or arrangement of molecules is what is important, because of the state or condition they produce, and that pattern can be replicated by another medium or substrate, then Max has got it right 👍🏼
Love this show ✌🏼❤️
I have been aware of spirit from an early age, it can be wonderful but very scary, when you experience spirit it stays with you all your life, no one believes you but it doesnt matter as you know the truth, i cant explain it but i know its true.
Lucky you!
This is one field where philosophy can truly shine in all it's glory, can we disrupt death. There's not a single term or smallest event that should be overlooked when examining this phenomena, yet not many minds dedicated their life to that project. It's because we're hopeless right from a start. Nobody ever survived, there's nothing to tell what hadn't already been spoken about subject. What do we mean by death, it's something, like transition from animate to inanimate state, maybe we should start with a word.
Nice work. I appreciate the different views. Did you consider interviewing Donald Hoffman, who considers consciousness as fundamental? We can go on forever here.
Dave Howie Check Sarvapriyananda on RUclips. The Hindu perspective of advaita Vedanta is refreshing. Consciousness is the only thing that exists.
but not as a personality, as Ramana Maharshi said,"To think you are a person is a mistake"
When the angel of death approaches, it is terrible,
When it has reached you, it is bliss
There is no angel. Nor is there bliss. There’s just nothing. Exactly like there was for the 13.7 billion years before you were born.
@@paulk2257 I have no conception of what it was like before I was born, I cannot say that it was nothing.
@@raeds8218 You had no conception because you were nothing. When you were conceived, you were one cell - no brain, no nervous system, no consciousness at all. And before that one cell you did not exist. Nothing. That’s what we all have been for 14billion years till the chance of our birth. And once we die, we will once again be nothing for however long time continues. No “soul”, no metaphysical existence beyond death. Those are just concepts born from the arrogance of our consciousness - we think, therefore we believe we are important. The universe doesn’t think so.
@@paulk2257 Wow, seems you have some insider information! So assured you are right, that you can’t possibly be wrong, the all seeing and all knowing, paul k. Let’s wrap up this channel then and quit wasting time, as the oracle, paul k, has solved it!
@@TheFragilityOfIdeas I could mention minor nuisances like facts and evidence but they are irrelevant to those who just wish to believe. I could also tell you that over 90% of scientists globally will agree with me. Buy how about when you experience that bliss you come back and tell us all about it…
It is not all of life to live, nor yet all of death to die. For life and death are one, and only those who will consider the experience as one may come to understand or to comprehend what peace indeed means.
~ Robert Grant
robert kuhn, you need to talk to dr. bruce greyson and also look at the university of virginia consciousness studies dept. they got a ton of compelling evidence.
I don't agree that I'm different in a deep sense today than in my earlier ages. I'm 75, and I can confidently say that there is a core of me that's the same since I was a teen. My experiences have increased, but I feel like I'm actually more "me" than I was when I was 14. It's that sense of "self" that's so hard to define and explain, and nothing here gave me any insight into that.
Thank you, Julian, for making the valid point regarding the "self" that most people mistake as being true identity. It was never who we were. It can't. We are much grander than a concept of the mind.
can you help me with Julian's last name? they missed it in the transcripts.
thank you!
don't bother please....got it!
Thanks again for another thoughtful video. The key argument, to which you alluded, is continuity. The thought experiment that I think is definitive regarding uploading or cloning, is that the moment after duplicates are created,
if a stranger had a gun and was going to shoot one of the duplicates, each duplicate would point away from itself proving that each had its own separate identity and consciousness. In the case of cryonics, if the process physically worked but if, upon being revived, the person had no recollection of who he or she was, the process would have failed because there was no continuity. When and if it is possible to implant a super computer into our brains, and being incorporated into consciousness, allowing redundancy. In such a case, the brain could die with only partial loss of identity due to continuity.
What disturbs me is the fact that losing self consciousness is a daily thing that happens (when you sleep, when someone goes in coma, etc…), so the idea of dying and consciousness disappearance brings an uncomfortable feeling, but it is not nothing exceptional. If we accept we lose consciousness when we sleep, we could as well accept we could lose it forever.
My simple idea is that consciousness is fundamental, a field or energy that the physical mind is able to “receive” and experience in a body, like the internet in a computer or a radio picking up a broadcast. Any brain sufficiently advanced, can receive the signal, it’s all one consciousness expressing itself in many different forms.
I absolutely agree with you. There should be a universal consciousness in the universe!!
Every cell in our body has its own "personality". How could their "software" be replicated?
@Reed Marcotte We're saying the same thing more or less. Every cell is unique. My question is if we try to duplicate an organism in software (AI), how could we model such a variety of cell characteristics?
Excellent quest by Kuhn.. I don't know what's there in the video to be disliked by 47 people.. can they please speak up.
We cannot speak of any unbearable lightness, but an unbearable weight (or responsibility) of being, and that is, that consciousness (in terms of life in any dimension or scale) will never end, because it is timeless.
Robert, if you want to know about the survival of consciousness beyond the death transition, ask an expert in the field. I'm president of the Afterlife Research and Education Institute. There are volumes of evidence that we live beyond the body. We're far beyond wondering about that. We're now focused on developing means of communicating. Go to afterlifeinstitute.org.
Not just that but also we would have no idea this planet wold ever form in the first place 😐in fact we were most likely all ready dead before we came into this world in the first place 😐
Why would you want be who you are now forever? You or nobody has ever been who they are forever! We are everlasting awareness in consistently changing avatars...I believe that whole heartedly
i’m not sure what’s more scary, dying young or living forever
Living forever without fear haha
Amazing episode. Thank you
I think just like experience of life is different for different individuals, death also is not same for everyone. We all have different after-death fates depending upon our dispositions & personality types:
1)some of us may have a continuity of consciousness after death by evolving in a spiritual world,
2)some get reincarnated back on this earth in another body,
3)and some may just vanish after brain death!
In other words, afterlife is a qualification, not a natural right!
that discussion about the one first person experience 'I'....That's why I liked the game 'Soma' so much. Goes with the premise of the perfect copy of the mind uploaded to another body (actually a machine body). That 'I' character then feels like the original 'I', no different and in continuity (comparable to waking up after sleep). He then rather struggles with the fact that there's another one left behind that feels absolutely the same.
I don't think that works without all the connections to the body and all the organs though, that would have to be replicated too
This guy, Julian is crazy, Robert’s reaction was exactly my reaction, and his response was exactly mine as well to Julian. Most would like to live forever, especially if family and friends could, and remain healthy and young, it’s all conditional really. But if those conditions could be met, then of course. I’ve heard arguments of getting bored, but it’s a false premise. I never get bored with eating each day because there’s many variety of food to consume, even though I’ve lived 70 years now. Because each time is like the very first time when you get hungry and enjoy the routine so much. So if the enjoyments never goes away then yes you would never get board ,even for an eternity. The only thing that changes that is when your quality of life descends, then maybe that argument would have merit. Julian send me that pill😊 I’ll make sure to give it to my loved ones as well. 👍😊
Great debate Lawrence. Love the ways you put questions forward.
It's surely sure one thing : this is the BEST channel💪🙏😁
Mr. Kuhn is a great skeptic and host.
Max doesn't quite understand what the 1st person awareness means, even though that is him!!
I think the problem with all these knowledge about consciousness, the expert never try meditation which is a gateway to our consciousness. People who have meditated have experience paradigm shift in their view of our mind/ body relationship.
I ask the same questions as he does. Brilliant.
He asks all the right questions.
How do past lives work?
Past life regression. Past life regression is a technique that uses hypnosis to recover what practitioners believe are memories of past lives or incarnations. ... Once created, those memories are indistinguishable from memories based on events that occurred during the subject's life.
I think the ultimate truth is nearly impossible to swallow. We are already dead. This is the afterlife. You just don't know who you really are.
So what do you think happens after your body dies in this life?
@@Sarah91086 Eat some shrooms; just enough to make you sick and helpless. I believe that the sense of time distortion, and of the ego/self blinking in and out as the brain goes haywire is probably a good example of what it feels like to die and be reborn. Many people would call it a bad trip, because it doesn't feel good to go in and out like that. I'm starting to think that maybe that's what death is like, except that when you really die,, you *blink* across space/time to another realm to become something else in another medium. The inbetween part? I hope it's either fast, or more comfortable than taking too many shrooms. Those insidey-out feelings suck. Or maybe it's not another realm; if time is really an illusion, we could all be the same...thing; living eachother's lives -which is why it's really really important to be reasonably nice to eachother...
@@Sarah91086 well what do you think will happen before you were born?😐same thing 😐
@@jettmthebluedragon I wish I knew the answer to this question!
Only one thing scares me more than death. Eternal life.
The key here is fesr of the eternal. Becuade death can be eternal too
Even if my computer's electrical activity is zero it does not mean that it is broken or that it no longer works ... it is just on standby.
If our brains appear inactive or dead to our rudimentary instruments, that doesn't mean it's dead.
I think as long as we 'come back to life' our brain was not damaged, but was just in hybernation mode maintaining minimal activity.
Conciousness is at the same time a wonderful and a terrifying gift the nature and evolution gave to human creatures. Source of all religions, that are all nothing but a way to anesthetize our terrifying awareness of the unavoidable vanishing of our "selves". Why are we so frightened about the "after"? Should'nt we be terrified by the "before" as well? I personally feel the same feeling of distress for both the after and the before..what and where was "myself" before I born? Likely in the same place I'll go when I'll die. That is, nothingness. Sad indeed. But unavoidable, I think.
Glad I am not the only one who perceives of "eternal life" as frightening and appalling.
Well you can't conceive of it. And when we try to, the closest we can get is imagining living forever on this earth in this body.
But if the core you, much like the core you that would still remain if you could live for 300 years ( even undergoing many more changes ) would still he there.. could exist apart from the mind.
If consciousness is non - nocal and exists past the physical mind then this is eternally living forever, and it would NOT be frightening in this way as fright is a physical emotion.
I don't know that consciousness is non local.. but the very fact that I'm conscious now is strange enough. And for the simple fact that there's nothing in science, physics or in this universe that points to, or even begins to paint the first image for the emergence or reason for consciousness.
It may well be that all things are conscious and in some ways may even experience higher vibrant states of consciousness just because they're not weighed down by the things humans are, like language or the problems and things that humans are inundated with that begin to pile up over time.. so their consciousness isn't blunted.
Much like when I was a kid, at least speaking for myself as I'm sure it's the same with many people, that when you're a child, consciousness is more vibrant and has more vigor to it. And as we age it becomes blunted or faded.
The idea of centering ourselves, or equilibrium and shedding the excess thoughts and problems and baggage of daily life that weighs us down, is a way of returning to our roots, or the states of consciousness that we experienced much younger.
0:35 - Robert Lawrence Kuhn walks into Exegol to interview Palpatine about death disruption
Gotta love being agnostic.
Personhood and a soul is essential.
Excellent!
In a measurable sense, death appears to be the cessation of consciousness.
But, in the subjective sense, what ends at death is awareness of a body-perspective; the sense of identity-as pretty much all sensory or emotional input-is significantly heightened.
Some philosopher once said: "When I am, there's no death. When there's death, I am not." So, perhaps we shouldn't fear death, because we never experience death. If I experience something, I am alive. If I die, I do not know that I am dead. It's like sleeping; When you sleep, you don't know you are sleeping. You only know you slept when you are awake. Death is sleeping without dreams.
Here is a relief, in the metaphysical realm, time does not exist so living forever is not a constraint.
YES!!At 4:29,there's a small reference to Cryonics.
Glad to find this show at my age and not veryyy old
To die, or not to die. That is the question
Disappointing to see someone base much of his argument on an extreme overstatement of how unreliable memory is. The studies that show such unreliability are a tiny foundation upon which to built a complete understanding of how much people change over time. Yes, people can have false memories. No, we're not *defined* by them. Also, the "eternal succession of selves" to argue that immortality would be meaningless is sophistry. If it's fine until now it'd be fine for as long as we can have it.
Also, Robert should actually dive deeper into NDE reports. They're well beyond the level of "anecdotes" in how many have been reported over time, and how many people have at least reported experiencing them. What they mean we don't really know, but that people really do experience them should be beyond question at this point. This coupled with reports of these people experiencing and perceiving events around them that they should not have been able to experience and perceive. It's valid to suggest that consciousness may linger after brain activity stops, but NDEs include details from external events to experiencing them as hyperrealistic to being downright life changing for better or worse in ways that's hard to explain just through lingering consciousness. Such may not change his mind, which is fine, but this goes deeper than the superficial coverage in this video.
12:30 the SHADE.
Then again, I agree with Kuhn. If it is possible to coexist with your twin, it means the person in the other body isn't "you" even if they think they are. So it doesn't matter if you die just before the twin starts living. In that bet you're just agreeing to die so someone else who believes to be you can get a lot of money.
First interview contradicis over and over to avoid the soul...
Loved the video👍👍👍👍
Death when it came was already destined to be annihilated. At the beginning, there is a singularity (The Fall) and at the end there is another singularity (the appearance of the Superhuman).
The difference between the Human and the Superhuman state is an Information of infinite dimension, which allows for stability and an Entropy close to zero. In this state, Death is impossible, as there are no time-dependent degradations.
(In fact, the process is much more complicated than this simple scheme, adapted to the small space).
Dr Kuhn, I am disappointed that you did not talk to any anesthesiologists. After all, these are the guys that turn consciousness off and on, effectively putting their patients into a death state (death state being defined as a state where the corporeal body is "unaware" of 'outside' events... such as it's corporeal body having limbs amputated, hearts removed, etc.)
It's been awhile, but I was once involved in a very serious motorcycle accident and for over forty hours could not even remember my name. Huh. Some years later, I underwent surgery and was gassed, and for about three hours I was a blank. No dreams, no memories. Countdown, 10, 9, 8, 7, blank. Then suddenly, it's morning, I'm in a different room and it's and breakfast with jolly nurses.
What's the difference between sudden shock or deliberate gassing ?
To me, the conversation with Max More supposes consciousness is a function of the brain, -- it's "patterns" -- as though our patterns of interpretation of reality, for instance, our interpretation of vision or touch, is stored inside us, in a vacuum. But rather, is it not the case that "who" we really are as conscious beings is the reality suspended in the matrix between our own singular body and the body of the larger world which we are a part and is also our own? I do not feel touch or see images somewhere inside me, independently of the "outer world," but I am rather defined by the feeling of the reaction of one body's skin and nervous system, between what is the "inside me" and "outside me." We see the world from the perspective of just beyond the surface of what is inside our bodies. We do not feel as though we see from inside our eyeballs, but more-so as though we live in the place between the surface of our "inner" and "outer" worlds, simultaneously. I think consciousness, is not something confined to an independent body in a vacuum, but it is the negotiation of forces between individual bodies within the collective of which all is a series of subsets.
I think we must recognize the opinions about after-life expressed in this video are narrow and only offer limited philosophical opinions which are constrained by your guests' ability to craft their argument and state their opinion. You should have included hospice nurses, Eden Alexander, MD and Ray Moody, MD to provide a much broader discussion of after-life instead of limiting the discussion to philosophical argument.
As Muslims we understand that death is a hiatus and then reincarnation of the same body happens with the same consciousness, very similar to going to sleep and then waking up.
This show is top tier
His continuity theory is due to not understanding the purpose of our experience here on earth. Our core soul essence has nothing to do with age or time for that matter. It just is. And was and always will be. Age and time is only relevant here in the 3rd dimension. Only our human selves go through the aging process. The soul does not. It just exists. When it transitions, it transitions as a soul, not a human if that makes any sense. In other words, who we came in as, is who go out as. When I had a NDE I had all this knowledge and awareness of the ultimate truth of our existence shown or given to me. I remembered who I was as a soul and everything I had just gone through on earth seemed like it all happened in a short period of time and there was no judgment. I had an OBE at age 7 and a NDE/ADC at age 46.
I think you have to have led a charmed life to want to live forever. Most people find death, when it comes, a relief
Q: When does a child gain conscious, self awareness?
A: Sometime between 15 and 24 months.
Q: Does this occur by non-physical osmosis or physical brain development?
A: ?
I agree 😐very confusing 🧐in fact our experience with death will be the same as if we did not live in the first place 😐
An afterlife would almost certainly require a god.
That god would likely be the creator of the universe.
You would then be proposing a grander and more powerful entity to explain the universe than the problem of the universe itself.
That is not a logical progression or in line with current cosmology.
A naturalistic approach provides the answers to a reasonable degree, we don't know everything and never will, but the main boxes are ticked!
I have been resigned to making the most of my time on earth and when I'm gone, I will not suffer.
Live life to the full, make it as good as you can for yourself and others. That is the ultimate goal!
神を想定することは 公理的集合論での無限集合の想定に似ています。想定しても、おそらく矛盾は生じないでしょう。それは、豊かな数学的世界を作り出します。つまり、多くの定理を生み出します。でも、その公理を認めない人もいます。
What makes you think that cosciousness stops with death. Clearly it doesn't, as all the NDE testimony makes clear.
here's the missing n from above!
Beacuse your consciousness is all about the brain 😐without a brain well…..your so called brain dead you don’t feel you don’t see or here anything after all before we were ever born we were most likely dead 😐we just don’t think about it Beacuse we are alive 😐I feel that the concept could be one big joke 😐after all before we came into this world we were all ready dead 😑and yet here we are 😐only to die again 😐like I said life is short but it feels long and as for death it’s long but it feels so short 😐also we say death is final however we’re we all ready dead before we came into this world ?😐so it’s like… wt? 😐
To fear constantly death during life will amount to one not living life.
Living is to maximise knowledge and experience equating to wisdom, consciousness is attached to one however not part of one evolving over vast time through different personalities.
You will only see this once you shed your fear.
Is the universe we live in a unique event, one time and no more? Doesn't sound plausible to me. As a consequence, the experience we have in this universe as conscious beings with a sense of self is probably not a unique event but will happen again and again (not in the same universe of course, but fortunately, time ceases to exist when you are dead, so a hundred billion years to the end of our universe means nothing ). It will have no relation to who you are now but that doesn't matter, the experience of being alive will be the same. Just as you are now, without links to some previous life but just alive. You don't care that you're not Robert Lawrence Kuhn if you are somebody else (unless you think he has a better life than you do : )
Time does not seance to exist when your dead you just loose track of time 😑think about before you were born 😐you had no brain you had no brain and when you die your brain will disintegrate into nothing…again 😑
Haven’t we all not existed before though? Before our conception, where were we? Do any of us remember? Death seems like the fear of something we’ll have no awareness of anyway. Do we walk around afraid of the time before we existed here on Earth? No we don’t. So why are we afraid of the after? One would allow a surgeon to perform an operation on them under anesthesia. Why? Because we would have no awareness of the experience while unconscious, we have not a clue what is happening to us, to our bodies or anything around us, and hopefully we’ll wake up better. “Hopefully”...yet we’ll still go through with it. Maybe it’s like that in death. Why fear it if you’ll have no conscious awareness that it happened at all...and (hopefully) we wake up on the other side...
I agree in fact we were all ready long dead before we even came into existence in the first place 😑in fact our experience in death will be the same as if we did not life in the first place 😐
It is counterintuitive, but Max has to be right if there is no soul.
Each copy of you, has to have the same continuity of inner awareness. Nothing less than "original".
Imagine if you went to sleep, and while you are not conscious, someone makes one more identical physical copy of you.
Which one is you is "you" in the morning? How can one copy be more "you" than the other, if they are identical?
How can you explain that one of the identical copies is your continuation, and another one isn't, if both copies are physically identical?
Every day signifies a mini life. When you wake at sunrise it's a new birth. As the day progresses it's a mini life. In the evening when the sun is going down is the most beautiful time of day. When the moon rises you fall asleep and dream. That in a nutshell is the cycle of life and death on a small scale. The four seasons are the same on a larger scale. Spring is like morning or new birth, summer is the noonday when the sun is high and you're in the prime of your life, evening is autumn the most beautiful time of the year, with the color of the changing leaves, evening the sky is the most beautiful purple, pink, fiery orange and blue. Then the silvery moon slowly rises in a blue velvet sky and you're at peace. You become drowsy, you close your eyes, and sleep sets in. It's winter at this stage where everything is covered in snow and frost. All of nature falls to sleep and rests. Then in the spring, the cycle begins again. Therefore death should not be feared. I believe death is misunderstood. Once death is understood, there is no more fear.
Is the soul/spirit physical or material? No, therefore it cannot die or end.
The only thing that dies is the brain 😐ware we will go hell of I know 🙂but my best hypothesis we will end up in the same spot as if we did not live in the first place 😐
*Sir, the question is less complicated than you think: If you make a clone of yourself, will it be you ? Will your "first person awereness" be transferred to it, or it would be only a copy ? There´s a great difference between a personality transfer and a copy. You may continue to be you in the old body, but there will be a copy of "yous" acting like you, thinking like you, but he won´t be YOU.*
Well we don’t know for sure 😐
@@jettmthebluedragon Just imagine: if just now some lab make a clone of you without you knowing, and this clone arrive at your presence, you'd see him in front of you, would you stop being you ? Would you stop feeling your self as you do now ? No. When you have a son, you don't stop being you. When you have a clone, you don't stop being you. There could be millions of clones of you walking on the streets, but each one is another person, you wouldn't know what he is thinking, because you only know what you self is experiencing.
@@DihelsonMendonca well theirs only one of me 😐as for I see the world from first person point of view maybe I always have seen the world from first person point of view of life and death 😐it’s just…strange 😓
@@jettmthebluedragon Yes. It's this "first person experiencing the world" I'm referring. Scientists and researchers call it self awareness. It's the awareness that we have of ourselves. We can't experience the world from other heads, just ours. So, I think although it's perfectly possible that with future technology, people make clones, or even download the entire knowledge and memories from a person, or recreate "Albert Einstein's mind" based on his thoughts and facts, through artificial intelligence, this new being would not be the real Einstein brought from the dead, it's just a bunch of recollections from his diaries, thoughts, and interviews. It's not the real Einstein awareness. On the other hand, something intrigues me: Many people accept that we have a spirit, or a soul which survives after death. I keep asking to myself, what happens to this awareness, or consciousness if for example, this person was completely frozen for 1 million years and brought to life again, intact ? Where his "spirit, or soul would have "traveled" or was for a million years ? It's difficult to accept that. But I believe one day with genetic engineering and technology, man will live almost forever, changing the body and preserving his brain. The day they could finally successfully make a head or brain transplant to a cloned body, a new era will begin. And even now the secrets of ageing are being discovered, with AI developing substances that would stop and even reverse age.
Great work
I like this guy he isn't committed to any particular idea
These shows use the same walking about footage. 1:52 is the 3rd time I have seen the woman in jeans on Westminster Bridge.
Skepticism regarding life after death is baked into the very fabric of our earthly existence. In other words, we are operating at a fixed level of consciousness that (for a very good reason) does not allow us to peer beyond the veil of death.
We cannot be allowed to know for certain whether life after death is true or not. Why?....
Because if every human knew beyond any shadow of a doubt that not only does there exist a higher dimension of reality where we will each live eternally in a completely new and wondrous form and setting,...
...but also, that entrance into that higher realm is absolutely guaranteed no matter what,...
...then rest assured that such knowledge would long ago have compelled our earliest ancestors to find a quick and easy means of ending their earthly lives in order to avoid the misery of enduring the hardships of physical survival on this planet.
And what that means is that you and I and all of the 7.8 billion other humans on earth would never have received the gift of life via the human birthing system, because all human bodies would have been eliminated from the very start.
As silly as this may sound, if humans were allowed to possess the absolute and irrefutable knowledge that their lives would continue on forever following the death of their physical body, it would be the metaphorical equivalent of giving God a “hysterectomy.”
If any of that is at all interesting to you, then have a look at my more in-depth reasoning on the subject, along with my 100+ personal drawings and illustrations on my website - www.theultimateseeds.com
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I read your site, and i like the imagination involved, but there is too much conjecture, too much analogy, and i get a sense of religious scripture from it. It is not useful to people who are truly curious to be given such a full account of things based on conjecture and imagination. Your essentially selling us a story. I really truly don't mean offence, but i am unsure what you want us to get out of this. Do you want me to say i believe you, and the what? If you want the idea to be probed and tested, then why don't you talk about problems with your idea, or ways it can be tested? As a skeptic, i find their to be very emotive and alluring language in your ideas, and it remind me very much of human stories of creation made for comfort and to give us a sense of importance.
@@richardtucker5938
Hi Richard, and thanks for your reply.
Yes, it is a "story" - a story that I fully admit could be wrong. However, for millennia we've been living with a variety of stories (Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc.) that, due to their incompatibility with each other, have us teetering on the edge global destruction.
Furthermore, the modern discoveries in cosmology, quantum physics, and all of the sciences in general, have exposed those stories as being nothing more than mythological nonsense, and have made it clear that they have run their course and need to be replaced with something that makes more sense - something that emphasizes that our ultimate destiny...
(be it eternal life in a higher context of reality - or - eternal oblivion because life truly ends at the moment of physical death)
...is going to be the same for all of us, and has absolutely nothing to do with what we did or didn't do (or believed or didn't believe) during our momentary existence on this planet.
Don't you think it's time for a *new* "story"?
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@@TheUltimateSeeds I understand, but honestly no I don't think it's time for a new story. I think given what you pointed out about previous stories... That it's time to stop telling stories. We have a story of discovery which is ongoing and I think we must settle for that, in that we haven't finished reading or even writing the book yet.
@@richardtucker5938
But literally billions of humans rely on the kind of comfort, solace, and, most importantly, the *"hope"* that religious stories (spiritual affirmations regarding an afterlife) provide them. Do you wish to strip that away from them? And replace it with what? Materialism? Nihilism? Furthermore, how do you suggest we account for the unfathomable order of the universe if, indeed, the idea of it being a product of the blind and mindless processes of chance is pure and utter nonsense?
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@@TheUltimateSeeds I am not making the claim that people should not find spiritual comfort, or that the order apparent in the universe is necessarily chance. But the story you propose is a product of your imagination, how can i reconcile that with seeking truth? It may hinder us more than help. I applaud and respect your motive, but not your method. "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
In octobre of 2008 I had an aortic aneurysm start flaking and tearing on my aortic root
When my heart stopped for 3:33 I left this realm and went to what the bible describes as Hades
I could smell sulfur,and feel the small demons biting me
I was burning up and then towards the end of my experience the pain stopped instantly and I could breathe again
A caucasian looking giant angel w golden flowing hair grabbed me and then I awoke on the living room floor with paramedics shining light in my eyes
They performed difibralation and poked my cardiac sack with a needle draining the blood that had leaked out.
Im lucky to be alive
I can assure all death is hell
All pain is healing
And this is not our only life
Ive contemplated it many times we are destined for an afterlife.
Even if that afterlife is only a halucination(SeemedLikeForever),it frees the soul from hell
The angel was the paramedic
If consciousness stays after death then how was it proved to be there. What was definition of death? and what was definition of consciousness? How can one observe that consciousness stayed after death? I am skeptical on the Doctor's claim.
It does not 😐death will be the same as if you did not live in the first place and if a planet is a rare case then it all makes life more special
Any hope to interview NT Wright pleeez??
It seems like you must know the truth to find the truth. There doesn't seem to be enough evidence or tools to do the job justice. If we actually thoroughly understood consciousness maybe we could create a backup. A catch 22. No one who comes back ever thinks to even attempt to ask the deity they see anything useful. Not that I would expect a understandable answer. The only time I ever heard a great question was during an alien abduction scenario the person asked "are you an angel". The alien replied "yes, but not one as you have been taught".
"A very stupid progenitor" Love it!
I think it very interesting to ask what is the now moment, the present moment. Is there such thing as an absolute now in the universe without awarness. Present moment is only subjective, if so can i claim than, someone who is dead for me at this moment could be alive in his or her now moment. can we say that consciousness not only exists simultaneously in different places but in different times as well. Had i waited longer to come into existence than someone who has born 20, 000 years ago, no. We came into existence at the same time.
It feels to me what you said is what Einstein meant about the past, present and future.
@@singsangsungable yes it is same, and his theory actualy proofs that. But very interesting is that same idea was mentioned 3000years ago by yogies and many more which becomes very popular nowadays especially with the development of quantum mechanics.
Actually yes your mind and body at age 5 are/were different than age 55, however the sense of self doesn't seem to change at all, the memory you have from age 5 can be corrupted but the perception-mechanism of that memory is no different at age 5 or at age 55. Extrapolate that to back to when "you" were an embryo with only a few brain cells ..were you still "you" at that time ??? , when did "you" start ??? did "you" randomly begin some day at age 1 ? or 2? or 3?
Simple.answer , we'll all find out.
Max is off the Mark, I feel. Robert is correct in saying that his 'I' would cease to exist. Max says this isn't a problem unless the experiences diverge greatly, and well duh; of course 10 exactly similar Maxes are going to have 10 radically different experiences. The second the first one becomes aware that he is the first replication that's going to create a different ego than the person created second, and so on.
Maybe he is correct in thinking the personal 'I' doesn't matter, and that there's no soul attached. But maybe not. Robert is all about being certain and Max has accepted his fate.
What about when loved ones that have passed speak to you in your dreams and tell you their not dead?
Probably still owe em money
Perfect
Err..... you're dreaming!
That one guy who just wanted to make copies of himself has convinced himself that he doesn't really exist as a person, just a pattern. Plus, what egotism to imagine that your personality and opinions are so important that they need to go on after you die. The graveyard is full of indispensable men buddy. What good is a future where "I" am not there? I can make new memories, and everyone could use a little personality work, but there is only one "me" and I'm him. On the old Star Trek show, Dr McCoy made that point. As far as he knows, he died the first time he used the transporter, so what difference does it make to go again.
Best title for this series will be ´not closer to the truth’… great 👍 questions overall