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@Closer to Truth If Jesus was God in flesh, then Hinduism also holds a valid claim, that their holy-men were God in flesh on Earth. God becoming a man, is an imperfect God. OT says, God is not a man in the book of Numbers. Now imagine God-man ate food, used toilet, went to bed, then woke up with morning erection, and then God-man get occasional self discharge otherwise known as wet-dreams among men on Earth. First and second commandments of God, went down the drain, if Jesus was "God" in flesh. Thank God, I am a Muslim.
Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. RSV Only-monos God-theos Monos theos Monotheism The Father Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)! Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has ab God! Jesus has a God! Jesus died! God can’t die! God raised Jesus from the dead! The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
I do to but i am coming to the point where his questions and choice of answerers become self-reinforcing He is always going to Cambridge and Harvard and various places in the west. Sometimes i think this is just about keeping his gig going Go east Robert See what you might find there Maybe there is no answer...only silence
His intention isn't to debate people. He wants to present different perspectives. Also, he's been doing this off and on for over 20 years with just a few years off air in the mid 2000s, and for most of that time had pretty much gone over the same handful of topics, often with the very same people, multiple times, which gets very repetitive. I think he wanted to try something different.
I agree that RLK's intention was not to debate. Instead I imagine his intent was to let each person take his/her best shot at explaining beliefs about Jesus -- and then let us the viewers judge for ourselves. I imagine this because more than just about any other topic he has covered there is absolutely no empirical evidence to support any position so it's all "poetry" as N.T. Wright observes.
Sir Robert, you are truly an exquisite man. You are the perfect embodiment of curious yet tasteful skepticism and intellectual virtue. I love how you can entertain something you cannot grasp, without letting your desire for knowledge tarnish your intellectual standards, and at the same time how your standards don't render you non-receptive to the possibility that there may exist aspects of reality that can be reached by transcending these standards.
Indeed. Well said. He is a model for how all of us should approach life. Open to anything, walled in by nothing, yet insistent on a measure of coherence. (I say "a measure" of coherence, because God would transcend our coherent categories of thinking, yet would not be irrational, though likely suprarational).
As a young 20 year old student of history of religion at Lund university I had an aha-moment after speaking to one of the teachers privately about his beliefs. I came to realize that a person can be extraordinarily intelligent and extraordinarily learned and still believe in anything, even the most absurd. Now at 70, I sadly haven't experienced anything to make me change my mind. It seems that a persons religious beliefs are rooted in factors totally irrational.
For reasons best known to God, he hides the knowledge of the truth from worldly scholars and intellectuals. Jesus in prayer to God says: Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus said in response: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have HIDDEN these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. Thus, if someone wants to learn the truth, there must be humility and a desire to learn. God has a people whom he is gathering from all religions to be survivors of the destruction he is to bring to end this wicked system. He promised this through his prophet at Micah 4:1-5. They have a book explaining the basic truths found in the bible. Here is the free download link. www.jw.org/en/library/books/?contentLanguageFilter=en&pubFilter=bh&sortBy=1 I hope this helps.
That’s a great thing to learn from this series! The host never really strays from his position right at the place where you consider the most unknowable unknowns lol. If you watch enough, you can see that he’s really really sharing his personal journey with the audience, and there’s nuance to his conclusions.
Start with NDE. Most people who experience what ensues recognize that God is all of consciousness. We all have a spirit which is connected. Those who come back are charged with the mission to love, forgive and help. We all have a spirit which is filtered through the physical brain. Our spirit is a part of the overall collection of spirit. We are here to experience life. We go back when our body expires to come back again to experience and learn more. God sends NDEers to spread love and faith. Jesus was sent down with that purpose.
Your comment is about as close to the concept of God that I have been able to entertain. Although I have also wondered, if this were true, God must either experience being really lonely, bored (?) or could it be that God had nothing else more important at the moment to do than divide himself up into each human being in order to experience (justify?) himself from the point of view of individual, free willed (?) beings that he himself created (does that make sense ?). I DO feel very much like RLK, an insatiatiable urge to know, study, ponder, and continue searching for (the) truth.
I guess theology is like tap dancing, then: only some people can understand it, even less people have the skill to do it. The rest of us can either learn to appreciate and enjoy it and do it, or ignore and be ignorant of the phenomenon.
6:49 “This is where it becomes very mind-bending…” Yeah, the preceding four minutes of mental gymnastics explaining the Trinity were super straight-forward…
Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. RSV Only-monos God-theos Monos theos Monotheism The Father Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)! Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has ab God! Jesus has a God! Jesus died! God can’t die! God raised Jesus from the dead! The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
@@gerhitchman Said like a true reductionist. May I remind you, many of the greatest minds in history have wondered honestly at things metaphysical. I wish you well.
@@gerhitchman Not just for over 2,000 years my friend but as far back as mankind goes. It's the very nature of metaphysics that it's transcendental and so, beyond knowing; and though destined to remain unverifiable, it has always and continues to engender profound questions. Therein lies the rub.
Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. RSV Only-monos God-theos Monos theos Monotheism The Father Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)! Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has ab God! Jesus has a God! Jesus died! God can’t die! God raised Jesus from the dead! The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
@jakobbogale2350 yes because a video discussing an inherently contradictory concept is getting closer to the truth and also you can't touch something that isn't physically there
A segment from 'Saved by the Light of the Buddha Within'... My new understandings of what many call 'God -The Holy Spirit' - resulting from some of the extraordinary ongoing after-effects relating to my NDE... Myoho-Renge-Kyo represents the identity of what some scientists are now referring to as the unified field of consciousnesses. In other words, it’s the essence of all existence and non-existence - the ultimate creative force behind planets, stars, nebulae, people, animals, trees, fish, birds, and all phenomena, manifest or latent. All matter and intelligence are simply waves or ripples manifesting to and from this core source. Consciousness (enlightenment) is itself the actual creator of everything that exists now, ever existed in the past, or will exist in the future - right down to the minutest particles of dust - each being an individual ripple or wave. The big difference between chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo and most other conventional prayers is that instead of depending on a ‘middleman’ to connect us to our state of inner enlightenment, we’re able to do it ourselves. That’s because chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo allows us to tap directly into our enlightened state by way of this self-produced sound vibration. ‘Who or What Is God?’ If we compare the concept of God being a separate entity that is forever watching down on us, to the teachings of Nichiren, it makes more sense to me that the true omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence of what most people perceive to be God, is the fantastic state of enlightenment that exists within each of us. Some say that God is an entity that’s beyond physical matter - I think that the vast amount of information continuously being conveyed via electromagnetic waves in today’s world gives us proof of how an invisible state of God could indeed exist. For example, it’s now widely known that specific data relayed by way of electromagnetic waves has the potential to help bring about extraordinary and powerful effects - including an instant global awareness of something or a mass emotional reaction. It’s also common knowledge that these invisible waves can easily be used to detonate a bomb or to enable NASA to control the movements of a robot as far away as the Moon or Mars - none of which is possible without a receiver to decode the information that’s being transmitted. Without the receiver, the data would remain impotent. In a very similar way, we need to have our own ‘receiver’ switched on so that we can activate a clear and precise understanding of our own life, all other life and what everything else in existence is. Chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo each day helps us to achieve this because it allows us to reach the core of our enlightenment and keep it switched on. That’s because Myoho-Renge-Kyo represents the identity of what scientists now refer to as the unified field of consciousnesses. To break it down - Myoho represents the Law of manifestation and latency (Nature) and consists of two alternating states. For example, the state of Myo is where everything in life that’s not obvious to us exists - including our stored memories when we’re not thinking about them - our hidden potential and inner emotions whenever they’re dormant - our desires, our fears, our wisdom, happiness, karma - and more importantly, our enlightenment. The other state, ho, is where everything in Life exists whenever it becomes evident to us, such as when a thought pops up from within our memory - whenever we experience or express our emotions - or whenever a good or bad cause manifests as an effect from our karma. When anything becomes apparent, it merely means that it’s come out of the state of Myo (dormancy/latency) and into a state of ho (manifestation). It’s the difference between consciousness and unconsciousness, being awake or asleep, or knowing and not knowing. The second law - Renge - Ren meaning cause and ge meaning effect, governs and controls the functions of Myoho - these two laws of Myoho and Renge, not only function together simultaneously but also underlies all spiritual and physical existence. The final and third part of the tri-combination - Kyo, is the Law that allows Myoho to integrate with Renge - or vice versa. It’s the great, invisible thread of energy that fuses and connects all Life and matter - as well as the past, present and future. It’s also sometimes termed the Universal Law of Communication - perhaps it could even be compared with the string theory that many scientists now suspect exists. Just as the cells in our body, our thoughts, feelings and everything else is continually fluctuating within us - all that exists in the world around us and beyond is also in a constant state of flux - constantly controlled by these three fundamental laws. In fact, more things are going back and forth between the two states of Myo and ho in a single moment than it would ever be possible to calculate or describe. And it doesn’t matter how big or small, famous or trivial anything or anyone may appear to be, everything that’s ever existed in the past, exists now or will exist in the future, exists only because of the workings of the Laws ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’ - the basis of the four fundamental forces, and if they didn’t function, neither we nor anything else could go on existing. That’s because all forms of existence, including the seasons, day, night, birth, death and so on, are moving forward in an ongoing flow of continuation - rhythmically reverting back and forth between the two fundamental states of Myo and ho in absolute accordance with Renge - and by way of Kyo. Even stars are dying and being reborn under the workings of what the combination ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’ represents. Nam, or Namu - which mean the same thing, are vibrational passwords or keys that allow us to reach deep into our life and fuse with or become one with ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’. On a more personal level, nothing ever happens by chance or coincidence, it’s the causes that we’ve made in our past, or are presently making, that determine how these laws function uniquely in each of our lives - as well as the environment from moment to moment. By facing east, in harmony with the direction that the Earth is spinning, and chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo for a minimum of, let’s say, ten minutes daily to start with, any of us can experience actual proof of its positive effects in our lives - even if it only makes us feel good on the inside, there will be a definite positive effect. That’s because we’re able to pierce through the thickest layers of our karma and activate our inherent Buddha Nature (our enlightened state). By so doing, we’re then able to bring forth the wisdom and good fortune that we need to challenge, overcome and change our adverse circumstances - turn them into positive ones - or manifest and gain even greater fulfilment in our daily lives from our accumulated good karma. This also allows us to bring forth the wisdom that can free us from the ignorance and stupidity that’s preventing us from accepting and being proud of the person that we indeed are - regardless of our race, colour, gender or sexuality. We’re also able to see and understand our circumstances and the environment far more clearly, as well as attract and connect with any needed external beneficial forces and situations. As I’ve already mentioned, everything is subject to the law of Cause and Effect - the ‘actual-proof-strength’ resulting from chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo always depends on our determination, sincerity and dedication. For example, the levels of difference could be compared to making a sound on a piano, creating a melody, producing a great song, and so on. Something else that’s very important to always respect and acknowledge is that the Law (or if you prefer God) is in everyone and everything. NB: There are frightening and disturbing sounds, and there are tranquil and relaxing sounds. It’s the emotional result of any noise or sound that can trigger off a mood or even instantly change one. When chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo each day, we are producing a sound vibration that’s the password to our true inner-self - this soon becomes apparent when you start reassessing your views on various things - such as your fears and desires etc. The best way to get the desired result when chanting is not to view things conventionally - rather than reaching out to an external source, we need to reach into our own lives and bring our needs and desires to fruition from within - including the good fortune and strength to achieve any help that we may need. Chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo also reaches out externally and draws us towards, or draws towards us, what we need to make us happy from our environment. For example, it helps us to be in the right place at the right time - to make better choices and decisions and so forth. We need to think of it as a seed within us that we’re watering and bringing sunshine to for it to grow, blossom and bring forth fruit or flowers. It’s also important to understand that everything we need in life, including the answer to every question and the potential to achieve every dream, already exists within us.
I was trying to imagine the very face of God, What happened instead was really quite odd! Each time I looked to see His face, Images appeared from the human race. I saw the face of a Doctor as he stopped to stare, unable to find the cancer he knew was there. I saw the hands of a Mother reaching her child, a Park Ranger's smile as a cub is released back into the wild. I saw the peace in the face of a man who was blind,. giving directions to a place someone couldn't find. I looked for the face of my dear Lord, and saw the faces of so many in one accord. But still, it was His face, I longed to see, and was given one final image,... a picture of me!
I do have a question for you, Dr. Kuhn. Can you identify any significant changes in your view of reality due to your contact with so many experts? I wonder.... Thank you again for this great program. I learn so much!!
The question of Jesus as Son of God, I get the feeling that Lawrence isn't convinced for a moment. I get the feeling that when he is listening here to Christians he is thinking to himself "This is crazy talk".
Jesus referred to himself as the ''Son of Man'' - which is found 82 times in the New Testament. The title ''Son of Man'' is used 93 times in the Book of Ezekiel. The Son of Man in Ezekiel has many parallels to the Son of Man in the New Testament.
the arian heresy which stated that Jesus and God were separate was extremely popular in the early Christian movement. it seems to me likely that the early church decided, realized that paradox, mystery is more accurate (in their view) and emotionally, poetically powerful. it's also good to think about Plato and Plotinus. In the platonic view the one (which is beyond human conception) overflows into Intelligence. Intelligence overflows into existence. Existence (spirit) overflows into duality. Duality overflows into material reality. So in essence everything is the one. The one (the good) overflows like a fountain into everything. Both creates and is. But everything is still itself.
I love how people think they know what God is and is not capable of... have they ever been a god? It's true, that the act of incarnating as a lower level of intelligence is a mystery, even to celestial beings, but they never presume to claim they know what's possible and what isn't, where God is concerned.
he trouble with you creatures is that you use words or symbols without having any idea what you mean by them or seek to convey when you use them. if you are going to speak with another using words or symbols you had best agree as the the meaning or value of those symbols. no int talking about god unless your interlocutor gives the same value or meaning to that word- in practice it evokesidentical associations in both of you. god means different things to different people- self evidently, so there is no point in discussing X unless you both give it the same value or meaning, some envision god as a being and some as a thing If for A X is 8and for B X=9, theyy they are not speaking of the same thing.
Our soul/consciousness can over ride our body's instinct reactions at times. We can experience both at the same time. Fear and bravery (with purpose) at the same time for example .With fear your instinct tells you to run but at the same time your experiencing that you know you have a goal to achieve that may affect a desired future outcome like winning a war requiring you to set aside that fear and be brave to play your part.. When we sacrifice ourselves for others you experience things like this. Those fork in the road moments where your higher consciousness is able to over ride something as powerful as natural instinct to survive.
I seem to remember Kurt Vonnegut characterizing himself as “a Christ-Worshiping Atheist”. This video brings clarity to this view that may ultimately provide the key to this problem of Christ’s nature. One can suspend belief in a cosmological supreme being and approach the transcendent through a relationship with someone totally human. Nicely presented, Dr. Kuhn, and thank you for your rigorous skepticism.
I like to imagine what Jesus was like as a schoolboy. In kindergarten, the teachers must have noticed that he was extraordinarily bright. In science, he completely understood quantum mechanics and harmonised it with relativity. In mathematics class, he solved all the differential equations in no time at all. In biology, his essay on the Origin of Species was simply magical. His attendance record, of course, was 110% because of his omnipresence. Some people didn't like his omniscience. He was, after all, a bit of a know-all. He didn't bath very often, but his blonde hair and omnipotence made him very popular with the girls. But oddly, he preferred the company of boys and this preference stayed with him all his lice. He was very good at sports and enjoyed some board games, but didn't see any point in playing dice.
Actually no he wasn't perhaps a human being with a lot of limitations but it is precisely at that juncture that the substance of God is/was revealed to human beings. Humility and faithfulness at the very core of existence.
@@vecumex9466 Jesus knew everything and he could do anything. He knew how to operate heavy machinery and solve crossword puzzles. In his spare time he liked to translate French literature into Esperanto.
@@vecumex9466 While Jesus was still in diapers, his hobby was building model helicopters. As there were no batteries available in the shops, he powered them by solar panels. Sadly, his brilliant lectures fell on deaf ears.
Technically, Jesus of Nazareth was never a "Christian". He apparently was born, raised as and died as a Jew. it's also interesting that other than scribbling in the sand/dirt with a stick on one occasion that he never actually wrote anything by his own hand. Equally fascinating is that he almost certainly spoke in the common tongue of Aramaic (or even Hebrew though the evidence is less convincing historically) and would have been able to incorporate via Hebraic mnemonic storytelling devices to those whom he spoke to and interacted with. Those writings referred to as the New Testament were all written in a form of Greek from the Common Era. Greek was the common/shared language of the Roman Empire so that makes sense to some degree. The New Testament documents would have technically been accessible to a wider audience geographically as this 'fringe' Jewish sect eventually branched into its own religious movement perhaps sometime between around 70 C.E. and by 125 C.E. that was called Christianity. It's also telling that a rabbinic teacher known as Saul of Tarsus became Paul of Tarsus following his own 'mystical/saturated phenomenon' experience with this apparently resurrected Jesus of Nazareth (who had been functionally executed as an 'enemy of the Roman state' via crucifixion). Paul of Tarsus (a former agitator of this small Jewish sect and a Hellenistic Jew himself) ended up becoming the largest single authorial contributor to the New Testament. He literally shaped much of this early Jewish sect and his Hellenistic rabbinic education would have influenced his style and semantic concepts/choices and philosophical rumination. That obviously impacted what he reflected upon regarding this resurrected 'divine' human being as he composed his primarily incidental letters and correspondence. Paul's letters helped give transitional shape, context and hermeneutical reflexivity to this branched-out group whom we call Christians.
Jesus was not 'of Nazereth'. The inscription INRI refers to Jesus the Nazirite, (King of the Jews). Nazirites were a sect of the Essenes, the sect responsible for collecting tithes, and went around as a well armed gang. Judas Iscariot was Jesus' bodyguard and best friend.
Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. RSV Only-monos God-theos Monos theos Monotheism The Father Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)! Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has ab God! Jesus has a God! Jesus died! God can’t die! God raised Jesus from the dead! The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
@@mitchellc4 the point of the dirt writing was to re-affirm the way in which God relates to life....that is through 'writing directly in the dirt'. We are obviously the dirt....in fact, everything is dirt.
The story of the woman taken in adultery from the gospel of "John" in which Jesus writes in the dirt does not even show up in the text until the fourth century. It's an interpolation and almost certainly is not historically accurate.
I’m relieved for the moment that I am drawn near to the Creator while I spectate the nature I share with other fellow humans of faith. I believe to let yourself be known first and live your life by way of the son to bring others with you as we all love each other in our love for the father. This was contrary to Dr Kuhn final comment in this video. Would anyone like to assist with this preoccupation?
"Let there be light" is Man's consciousness wanting to know. Our finding out is the creating process, and our final knowing is seeing the Creation as in a mirror, as our own body. Plato said something similar, and Christianity, with eyes on both traditions, and having seen such knowing in the man Jesus--loving the whole as his own body--saw the same brilliant light. It was necessarily introduced through ego-friendly mysteries--the truth is no friend to the ego--so alas, and of course they did, the mysteries very quickly became the final word, and the deeper truth--heresy. Hegel and others more or less reasoned out the same thing over 200 years ago, and the Church said, and of course it did: "Turn that light off!" It's simple really, and as Paul said, everyone knows it: Jesus is, and you and I can be God because God is Love. We long for God in that we long for the all-encompassing and eternal union that is love.
I love these series. But I see a flaw in them. The uneven leaning towards skepticism as the best tool to ascertain truth. I see another issue here. When you try to grasp something as banal as consciousness, we end up confused and dumbfounded. Now if you think you could define the Infinite One in a test tube and give two examples of Him, then we are bound to mystified and dumbfounded. The very basis of Worship is being mystified and dumbfounded. I would rather see that there is humility and room for mystery. After all if we can figure out infinity, then our minds must be bigger than infinity. Therefore we must be gods, we are not and our minds are finite. We cannot define nothing, much less God so I would leave room for mystery and faith here Dr Kuhn.
“Leave room for mystery” Well said!! I’m not making any appeals to authority but according to the literary genius G.K. Chesterton…. “Mysticism keeps men sane. As long as you have mystery you have health; when you destroy mystery you create morbidity. The ordinary man has always been sane because the ordinary man has always been a mystic.” (G.K.Chesterton). Furthermore, a community of hundreds of people meet in a church every Sunday in London they sing songs and listen to guest speakers. Sometimes it feels like a stand up comedy show if the speaker has funny anecdotes and is also in touch with every day ordinary people including the absurdity and joy of life. During the service the congregation bow their heads and contemplate the (mystery) and miracle of life for a few minutes. A member of the congregation gives a poignant testimony about how his mothers life and death influenced his spiritual journey. During these services they discuss the importance of wisdom, knowledge and volunteering. But this (Sunday assemblies) are no ordinary church service as they are all atheists or describe themselves as “unreligious”. They even chat over tea, coffee and biscuits afterwards as it creates a sense of community spirit and human connectedness. What a brilliant service to the community and what a brilliant format and idea. I wonder where they got that idea from!??? Sounds very ironic and pretty (mystical) and actually quite wholesome and beautiful and all (mystics) are on equal footing under relativism!! “I think that you cannot eliminate religion from the psyche of mankind. If you suppress it in one form, it merely emerges in another form. Even if you don't believe in God, you still have to believe in something that gives meaning to your life, and shapes your sense of the world. Such a belief is religious.” (Michael Crichton). .
“It is exactly this balance of apparent contradictions that has been the whole buoyancy of the healthy man. The whole secret of (mysticism) is this: that man can understand everything by the help of what he does not understand. The morbid logician seeks to make everything lucid, and succeeds in making everything mysterious. The mystic allows one thing to be mysterious, and everything else becomes lucid. The determinist makes the theory of causation quite clear, and then finds that he cannot say "if you please" to the housemaid. The Christian permits free will to remain a sacred mystery; but because of this his relations with the housemaid become of a sparkling and crystal clearness. He puts the seed of dogma in a central darkness; but it branches forth in all directions with abounding natural health. As we have taken the circle as the symbol of reason and madness, we may very well take the cross as the symbol at once of mystery and of health. Buddhism is centripetal, but Christianity is centrifugal: it breaks out. For the circle is perfect and infinite in its nature; but it is fixed for ever in its size; it can never be larger or smaller. But the cross, though it has at its heart a collision and a contradiction, can extend its four arms for ever without altering its shape. Because it has a paradox in its centre it can grow without changing. The circle returns upon itself and is bound. The cross opens its arms to the four winds; it is a signpost for free travellers. Symbols alone are of even a cloudy value in speaking of this deep matter; and another symbol from physical nature will express sufficiently well the real place of mysticism before mankind. The one created thing which we cannot look at is the one thing in the light of which we look at everything -- Like the sun at noonday, mysticism explains everything else by the blaze of its own victorious invisibility -- Detached intellectualism is (in the exact sense of a popular phrase) all moonshine; for it is light without heat, and it is secondary light, reflected from a dead world. But the Greeks were right when they made Apollo the god both of imagination and of sanity; for he was both the patron of poetry and the patron of healing. Of necessary dogmas and a special creed I shall speak later. But that transcendentalism by which all men live has primarily much the position of the sun in the sky. We are conscious of it as of a kind of splendid confusion; it is something both shining and shapeless, at once a blaze and a blur. But the circle of the moon is as clear and unmistakable, as recurrent and inevitable, as the circle of Euclid on a blackboard. For the moon is utterly reasonable; and the moon is the mother of lunatics and has given to them all her name.” (G.K. Chesterton). “At this moment it seems as though science will never be able to raise the curtain on the mystery of creation. For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.” All the best to you and your family and keep safe.
I love listening to people today talk about things that almost for sure didn’t happen 2000 years ago like they know exactly what happened and why it happened.
Gosple of Thomas buddism and aspects of those whom have used certain hallucinatory material. Jesus, with Holy Spirit descending upon him after the baptism was the time/symbol of awareness of oneness. Jesus the Christ keeps repeating A and answering this question yet the church and people keep failing to connect the dots.
A fascinating episode. However, it might have been clearer if those interviewed had mentioned this one fact: Prior to the Word becoming flesh (human), God had already created humanity in his image and likeness. While we are not omnipotent or omniscient, there is some kind of one-to-one correspondence between us and our Creator that made the incarnation possible.
The whole notion of a god in this world filled with the suffering of innocent children is the perfection of narcissism and nothing else. Also, it is just such a strange claim - why would there be a god, and why exactly one? Why not just grow up?
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” - Epicurus (341-270 BCE) Jesus probably did exist, and was someone like Mohandis (Mahatma) Gandhi. A living breathing human being, who was willing to sacrifice his own life to teach others a moral way to live and love one another. Was he the 'Son of God?' No. God or the Cosmos is beyond our total comprehension. What ever created the Multiverse if a what or who is necessary, is far removed from anything human. We just happen to be lucky enough to have been born of this Universe that can support sentient life. Modern Pantheism makes more sense than some ancient 'Old Man in the Sky' legend. There is no Heaven or Hell, only the reality of constantly recycling Universes in the infinite possibilities of the Multiverse; a beginning without end, an end without a beginning, like an M.C.Escher drawing; and infinity with edges that goes on forever. Is there a difference between good and evil? Maybe... it's probably just the choice of our reasonably intelligent and sentient mind in regards to sustainability of life itself. No need for an orthodox God of the plethora of religions and belief systems, just the Universe itself. So, get used to it. We are the masters of our own destiny. No one's going to rescue us. We must save ourselves. The sooner we realize that the better. There are no races of human beings. 'We are Earthlings; just one family of the human species that originally all came out of Africa, that are living on a tiny insignificant planet, orbiting an average star, lost in an ordinary galaxy, in a tiny forgotten part of the Universe, in a multitude of Multiverses. The Cosmos is all that is, or was, or ever will be'. Are we sentient human beings special? Yes, of course. 'Our ancestors worshiped the Sun, and were not foolish, because it makes sense to revere the Sun and stars, for we are their children... We are a way for the Cosmos to know itself' - Carl Sagan.
Suffering...Science made my life easier and I don’t say that lightly. With all the discoveries in medicine I can have a longer life than my ancestors. But there is another suffering that seems to be the elephant in the room in the west, like death or getting older or what do you do when you get jealous or angry...what do you do when you lose (in any situation) or go through a tragedy, and what about the suffering of others? Jesus suffered, He put suffering in the forefront and then was able to transcendent it. What does all this mean? I don’t know but it makes me feel less lonely when I suffer. (Of course you can think about suffering without Jesus). So I wonder if looking for Truth is the right word. I think meaning is more appropriate when you think about God.
That's what the story of Jesus was all about. Life IS suffering. Breathe that truth in. Accept it. There is no changing it. To live is to suffer. Quit trying to make your life not suck, it can't happen. Instead, do whatever you can to make other's lives suck less. Interestingly, (yet not surprisingly) psychological studies show us that this attitude towards life produce the most fulfillment and satisfaction. Like our brains and souls know the only justification for going through this life of pain, tragedy, pessimism, and unquenchable thirsts every day is that maybe we did some good. Also, remember to keep an eternal perspective. You will exist forever. Ten thousand years from now, the tragedies of your short time on Earth will be as forgotten and forgivable as that kid who pushed you off the swing in 3rd grade.
I think most folks use the word "suffering" to refer to two different but related things. The first is physical suffering -- a.k.a. pain. For example, one suffers with diabetes. The second is emotional suffering, as in suffering the loss of a loved one. If you see these separately then yes, there will always be pain. But there does not have to be suffering. The Buddha showed us how to do this over 2500 years ago.
@@itneeds2bsaid528 Yes, it's all about suffering (in this life) and like Jesus, the "suffering servant" who came to earth, we are also expected to suffer....."take up thy cross and follow me", Jesus said. So suffering is all part of this life.
On God and suffering... the fact that Jesus suffered, means that he is sympathetic to our suffering... God, the Father, does something different than what Jesus did... rather than being a separate person, God the Divine Father, sends a fragment of himself into each person who is at that point where they are making moral decisions. Thus God shares all our suffering with us, directly.
The best line fragment in this episode is "Think of it as bad science fiction...". "Analytic sophistication" or not, it is ultimately all paradox and mystery cards. And, of course, faith; belief without evidence or good reason. Once you have faith you can believe anything. ANYTHING.
Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. RSV Only-monos God-theos Monos theos Monotheism The Father Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)! Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has ab God! Jesus has a God! Jesus died! God can’t die! God raised Jesus from the dead! The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
“We are asked by science to believe that the entire universe sprang from nothingness, and at a single point and for no discernible reason. This notion is the limit case for credulity. In other words, if you can believe this, you can believe anything.”
Knowing is experienced not an understooding. We known the bike by riding the bike not by anylizing the bike properties. We known God the same way and we know Jesus is God the same way. We practice in the holy spirit: love, faith, hope, patience, understanding, self-control, courage. We know God by living life fully. Fully with all your mind, heart, soul, and strength. God is love, so by loving we experience God.
14:19 "But how is it possible to be fully human and fully devine at the same time?" 🙄🤦♂️ So "divinity" is a matter of Fact now.?. The supernatural exists?
Maybe Jesus is like water/ice - in certain circumstances he is human/God and what causes the shift in nature is who he is interacting with, his environment which collapses his wave-function.
In spirit or in flesh? Renew your mind in the correct domain. See yet not knowing Hear yet not understanding A few may find the narrow door Many did not see yet believe, blessed are these.
@@Trader_Logan u don't have to dive deep for the truth. U dive in abyss. Please accept Muhammad saw as a true messenger bcz he testified that jesus was real and he was close to God and he was born without father and that he was taken to heaven and he will return. God sent a message to you saying simple truth. Jesus is not God. God is One. He has no partners no sons no daughters. If u still wouldn't believe. Hell is the place for you
Wow, thank you RLK for the excellent exploration of the underpinnings of what to me is a consumate mystery. This should be required viewing and discussion for all who call themselves believers in Christianity.
The concept of the Trinity is blatantly pagan. It began in Ancient Babylon and made its way throughout the world. It can be found in the history of most ancient civilizations. The reason that Philo of Alexandria is cited as the one that brought us the Trinity, is for his direct involvement with mixing Greek philosophy with the Holy Scriptures.
@@deanodebo Remember when the Isrealites were in captivity in Egypt and Babylon? Well there is where they've learned the 3 in 1 concept. Read how Stephen in Acts 7 blasted them for always resisting the Holy Spirit as their ancestors did. And they killed him for telling the truth. You'll understand why Jesus calls them of the Synagogue of Satan and why Jesus said Beware of the teachings of the Pharisees and Saduccees. And what are they teaching? Babylonian mysticism they call the Kabbalah. That's why their book is called the Babylonian Talmud. The Supernal Triad of the Kabbalah is the foundation of the blasphemous Trinity doctrine and not the Bible. The Bible teaches ONE GOD (Spirit) and ONE LORD (Jesus/human) 1 Cor 8:6.
@@nonitoopena73 You can't simply follow other people and every time someone asks you about what you believe you tell them to ask the other people that you are following. God will bring each person and asks them about what they have done in this life.
@@mazen1010 She believes in the Trinity. This includes that Jesus Is God. She stated her belief clearly. You just dont accept it, because you are Muslim.. , Jewish early Rabbinic Sages call for two Power in Heaven. The jewish theologian Benjamin Sommer Studied anicent Isreal. And He found the concept of the incarnation of God and the concept of the trinity in the anicent Isreal. So it is a really jewish belief. Not a christian invention.
You need a PhD in intellectual gymnastics to surmise anything concrete from this video. Even with a decent command of metaphor in this discipline, I am totally none the wiser!
It’s impossible to understand. Why? Because quite simply Jesus is not God, why do we look to philosophy for explanation. The apostle Paul himself warned the 1st century Christian’s in Colossae at Colossians 2:8 saying that they should not be taken captive by philosophy and deception. Paul knew, given the growing influence of the Greeks at the time, that this was a real danger. How right he was!!!
The price of entry for these arguments is two fold: trust in the trueness of biblical claims, and trust in descriptions of Jesus and God translated two millennia out of original context and into a plethora of current contexts. Forgive me my grain of salt.
There is no price of entry! Showing up for inquiry and conversation is sufficient. Accepting Jesus as God is another step and it is as personal as Jesus in Gethsemane asking God must he drink from the cup, must he die on the Cross! It is an astonishing claim that God became human, a confounding triune God. This man prefers to start with the Cosmos. That’s fine. There is no compulsion in faith.
I had heard in another documentary that within the Church Jesus did not become God until around the 2nd century and/or in the reign of Augustus. This made it easier for the Church and/or emperor to "control" the members. I wonder how all of those theologians deal with such claims.
Well they would dismiss this because even Atheist New testament Scholar agree that the confession of the risen Jesus was shortly in max 2 years after bis crucifiction. And there are extra Biblical sources like Roman historians, who says Jesus was praised as Lord and God from his followers in 100 AD. So Yeah they would just dismiss this, because of historical facts.
When she said "it involves a certain analytical sophistication", I think she meant a great amount of irrational thinking... until you end up just ignoring it.
An even better approach would be to not make the presupposition of the existence of god(s). That would be the first demonstration that would need to be done.
I don't quite understand the discussion. If we go by the gospels I don't think Jesus ever said he is God...but said he is one with God, or the Father (best way to describe things in that culture I'd assume), in essence re-affirming the Relationship. Jesus showed us who we are to God not so much who God is to us, in other words he is/was saying 'as you see my relationship, such is yours', and he goes further to say the entity or element that connects that perfectly (I hate that word, but...) is the 3rd part of that relationship, namely 'the Spirit.' To be honest it's actually quite simple as long as you don't try to turn Christ in Jesus form into an idol....which of course is natural for dualistic tendencies that were (again based on analogous gospel assumptions) as a result of eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil...that great eye opening moment. As long as we keep reflecting or 'looking up' to Jesus as God and not as the part of the relationship ...that we too can operate in.... we will debate things and miss the point. What I love about the bible is the more you read it the more It encourages you to put it down and reflect. Or in other words, perhaps it's saying 'don't believe just by reading these words alone.' Jesus wrote in the dirt to affirm for those who have ears 'this is the manner in which we connect'...not through written word as 'the woman's accusers were claiming' (sorry, you need to read this passage to try to make sense of my thought). Jesus said 'greater things (if that's what you're interested in) than me you will do'. Jesus said to Peter he was blessed based on the fact flesh and blood had not revealed to him whom He was ....or in other words, blessed by partaking in the relational process (a big distinction from the standard belief that he was blessed for having received the information, or having understood the information).....I can go on, like my wife says I do.....but I'll finish there. Have a great day.
So sad that these people are still confusing mythological reality with literal reality. ANd that they discuss it with such earnestness. It's like debating the degree to with the return of Persephone to Demeter for part of the year was actually accepted by Demeter. Or whether she is still punishing mankind for the separation. I mean, really.
Matthew 27 verse 46 "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? " That proves that Jesus was not God. End of story.
After listening to these 'experts', I feel they could have used their literary skills as novelists, journalists or content writers, instead of talking abracadabra.
In the book of John Jesus said OVER AND OVER, that he is...."I AM" That is significant. Exodus 3:13 God tells Moses I AM has sent you. So when Jesus says I AM, that tells you who he is. It also tells you that some of these people he interviews don't know what they're talking about, despite their fancy old world University backdrops.
The current Christian conception of God as Man could be so great and transformative if realized by the majority. Think about it....the most divine thing we could do is to embrace our collective humanity. To throw away the distinctions of old and to say we need each other. The gospel basically says that if a man is given the power of god the best thing he could do is be a good man. Something we all can do. Jesus suffered to show that we all suffer, and we have to use that suffering to mitigate the suffering of others. It's quite that simple.
Thats kinda one of the aspects of his mission, but to say thats the end goal is wrong. Jesus never taught that mankind could be good if they embraced eachothers suffering, he rather taught that mankind cannot have a change of heart on their own since man is immoral so is his suffering a result of his immorality, there is no mitigation in that. He rather said that it is His suffering alone that could guide mankind to a better future, since he is the embodiment of the ultimate good that had suffered the ultimate injustice for the sake of the creators of such injustice (us); thus showing an unmatchable virtue
All in all, it could be easily explained if our world is a computer simulation and God is its programmer, who then created his own character as Jesus in this simulation.
The best proof in the Bible....settles this question once and all...because of the source.... In the Bible you will find by comparing Rev. 22:16 with Rev. 22:6-9 that a Holy Prophet Jesus sent, who has seen God clearly face to face in heaven calls Jesus LORD GOD of the Holy Prophets. Let's break this down.... 1. Jesus says He sent His Prophet. Only God can send His Prophets. 2. The Holy Prophet Jesus sent says Jesus is LORD GOD of the Holy Prophets. I'm sure God's Holy Prophets know who God is. 3. This Prophet is a UNIQUE VOICE IN THE BIBLE. Why? He is the only one `having seen God face to face in heaven', SEEING GOD CLEARLY, to tell us Jesus is GOD! NO ONE IN THE BIBLE HAS SEEN GOD FACE TO FACE IN HEAVEN TELLING YOU JESUS IS LORD GOD OF THE HOLY PROPHETS, except for the Holy Prophet Jesus sent!!
@@bobgapper2234 im sure this is good enough for theologians, especially the kind who holds the bible as unfallible. I don’t know its enough for philosophers who Get to it by argument, and see if it makes any sense logically speaking. Thats what i was refering to, nothing is setteld.
@@DeadEndFrog I can predict that because the Earth is not the result of the big bang, it's not going to end the way you see it. Einstein formulated the big bang. Quantum theory makes the big bang impossible. Einstein wasn't particularly enamored with Quantum theory, but it is the dominant theory now. Do away with big bang and all ya got left is the comedy TV show Big bang...then whatcha gonna do? If you want to see why let me know.
Gnosis /ˈnəʊsɪs/ noun knowledge of spiritual mysteries. In modern greek it just means 'knowledge'...... I have to fast forward most of the theists 'theologians',man o man...... Thanks again!! :)
It is clear that the idea of Jesus being divine evolved over time. I wish Christians would take a look at the origins and history of Christianity from contemporary sources instead of getting everything from the New Testament.
Paul's letters are written a few years after Christ's resurrection. The gospels were based on eyewitness accounts. Please add substance to your dogmatic claim that Christianity is a much later invention? Name me some recently written academic books that you've read arguing for the gospels and Paul's letters to be earlier documents based on eye-witness accounts as has always been accepted by the Christian tradition?
@@lesliecunliffe4450 The gospels were not written by eyewitnesses. Mark, the earliest gospel was written in 60's AD in ancient Greek. Jesus' followers spoke Aramaic. The gospels were written bases on oral traditions about Jesus. There are many "gospels" not included in the cannon which was not put together into 330's . There were many different forms of early Christianity. Many of which had different views of Jesus and who he was.The Christianity today is the surviving view from dozens of different ones which were stamped out as heretical. The view today is that of Paul, but was not the only one.
@@lesliecunliffe4450 Also, there is no complete copy of the earliest gospel Mark until 200 AD. And of the many fragments and copies found all of them are different, some materially different. There is no one true copy of any of the gospels. They are all patch work from different copies.
@@chrismathis4162 Many thanks for your responses to my comment. I note that you didn’t reply to my challenge to name some authors that argue for different views to the ones you originally posted, which I now can see were appropriated from Ehrman who dates the four gospels as written as complete documents at the following times: Matthew 80-85 AD, Mark 65-70 AD, Luke 80-85 AD, John 95 AD. His dates are fairly typical amongst New Testament scholars but this does not preclude them being written earlier. Many New Testament scholars take the earlier view. Jesus’ divinity: both the gospels and Paul’s letters testify to the belief in Jesus being divine. Some of Paul’s letters were written within 20 years of his death and reflect the consensus view of the early followers of Jesus, many of whom actually knew and accompanied him. The reason why there is no complete copy of Mark is due to the use of perishable material. However, the complete copies existed. Otherwise, Ehrman couldn't argue that Mark was written in 65-70 AD. Yes, there have always been alternative versions of Christianity, but this does not make all equally false. All academic disciplines show historical variety in understanding the said discipline, but does that make all of them false? Is Darwinism false because it is just one of many versions of evolution to have emerged over the last two thousand years? Clearly not. The role of eyewitnesses: I didn’t write that the gospels were necessarily written by eyewitnesses but based on eyewitness testimony, which is confirmed by how well they fit with research into the names recorded in the gospels as showing remarkable consistency with names in use in Palestine at that time. The writers of the gospels also get the geographical locations, flora and fauna, bodies of water, roads networks and direction of travel, and gardens correct, which contrasts with the later non-canonical ‘gospels’. On a broader point, your original post seems to infer that the Christians interviewed on the broadcast are very naïve or stupid. This is what you posted. “I wish Christians would take a look at the origins and history of Christianity from contemporary sources instead of getting everything from the New Testament.” In this regard, I make reference to Tom Wright who appeared on the programme. He has authored at least 46 books and is widely regarded as the most important living New Testament scholar. His first degree was in Ancient History. His wealth of knowledge of Second Temple Judaism, the times and lives of the early Christians and their relationship to the classical world, is second to none. Are you really serious when you write that this man doesn’t know about ‘contemporary sources’? Instead of making ill-judged and sweeping comments, I recommend you read a few more New Testament scholars to supplement the limited insights you’ve gleaned from Bart Ehrman. You could start with: WRIGHT, N.T. (2003) The Resurrection of the Son of God, London, SPCK (it’s only 800 pages long); BAUCKHAM, R. (2006) Jesus and the Eyewitnesses, Cambridge, Eerdmans (a mere 538 pages)
Are all the persons in the trinity Distinct ? Can second person of trinity exist without the first person (the Father)? Or can Father exist without the second person? Can God existence (and his nature) be contingent on any other thing? Is there a clear concept laid down by Jesus (peace be upon him) regarding trinity? The careful thoughtfulness about the answers to all those questions is very important !!
24:20 robert, you're not listening... you were just told that jesus never claimed to be god 3:13... he is a son of god (and so are you)... there are so many people out there who propose the best way to smile -- maybe you should actually look at the scripture sometime! thanks for all the great videos
@Floyd thanks floyd, by the way - where do we come from? of course we come from out father and mother.. (and they the same)! our father's and mothers are the cause of us all... and i believe that jehovah was the great father of all humanity -- literally!
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
@@invisiblechurch9621 the glory of the one and only Son from the Father i am sure jesus is ticked off because we worship him more than we do the father, the entire deal is about his father from the ancients right through till today... and of course he is god
Right, ladies and gentlemen, now that we've sorted out the phenomenon of a divine Jesus in a clear and unambiguous fashion, we can turn our attention to much more probable phenomena like the existence of the tooth fairy or the recently reported sighting of Santa's sleigh over Manhattan.
The excellent arguments presented in these interviews are based on the Bible, the belief that the Bible is the word of God. Once you remove God from the equation, that he inspired the authors of scripture, you are left with fallible human men laying the foundation of Christian belief.
"Why callest thou me good ? There is none good but one, that is, God" said Jesus. We know God cannot tell lies, so if Jesus is God, then he told the truth ! (Matthew 19:17. Mark 10:18. Luke 18:19)
No Jew believed Jesus was God. None of the Gospels state in any way that Jesus is God. Paul never said Jesus is God. Almost 60 years, 3 generations back then, 1 person, the writer of John, trys to say Jesus is God. Odd, no one but that one writer many years on says Jesus is God. Even John only says it once and indirectly
Esoteric Christianity: Gnosis: Being aware of being aware God = Life Jesus = Humane Humanity Christ = at One with Life Empty of ego (separateness) = Full of Life Holy Spirit = Eternally actualizing Infinite potential
In his prologue, John refer to Jesus as God's word (Logos) in the creation of world / universe / cosmos; which is a different dynamic than Jesus expressing God through humanity for ordinary people daily life.
That these matters around Jesus cannot be easily comprehended or explained, might point to the truth of the claims. In that they do not sound like something a person would make up.
Of course it could be made up. My favorite is Scientology; made up by sci fi writer and maybe even more absurd than other religions. Pretty much anything could be made up and then believed if sold properly
@@eddenz1356 That's my point. Scientology sounds like something a sci-fi writer would come up with. If assertions are truly transcendent, I could see where they wouldn't neatly fit into our familiar and coherent story telling structures.
The matters you refer to are easily explained. They're bullshit. It can easily be seen in the faces of Ms. Eleanor Stump and the rest of the debaters as they stutter around their flimsy justifications. Pure bullshit. It's not to say that the person Yeshua Ben Joseph (J.C. to you) was not an exceptional orator and intelligent way above the run-of-the-mill citizen of the time, but you're stretching it if you think He created the universe! I respect His memory enormously. He was no doubt the single most influential person in recorded history.
I was born into this religion, and I certainly have respect those who chose it as their faith, but it makes little to absolutely no sense to me. For the world of me, I can't seem to understand it. 💜
If you take this as an intellectual "exercise" it is fascinating. As a piece of actual knowledge, the concepts presented are completely made-up, ethereal, unknowing, non-scientific, esoteric, not only hard to understand - but also almost complete gibberish. It is a shame that us as humans have spent over two Millenia wracking our brains on these sorts of absolute silliness.
Mental gymnastics to be a man of god in these day’s. They’ve realized their gap god can no longer be sustained so they’ve retreated to basically just saying, “well yeah just believe in him or don’t because I’m not making any claims, mostly because you debunk every claim we ever said.” The holy version of pleading the 5th.
It's got nothing to do with mental gymnastics. It's about faith as the New Testament says. You believe whatever nonsense you want to believe, and leave us alone (in the kingdom of heaven) to believe what we believe.
Hey Sir Lauren, regarding this question I would recommend 2, if not 3, Christian mystical writings as follows: "The Divine Names" and "Theologia Mystica" by a certain St Dionysus, and "The Cloud of Unknowing" of whom I've forgotten the author. With understanding of cataphatic and apophatic theology we may get closer to truth
I know that many Christian believers are a lot more intelligent than me, but still: I just don't get how people can take those bronze/iron age myths so seriously as an explanation of the world or the human condition.
To quote the late Christopher Hitchens, " As long as people are afraid of death, there will always be religion" Or to put it another way, people will suspend all logic and reason for the promise of eternal life.
Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. RSV Only-monos God-theos Monos theos Monotheism The Father Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)! Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has ab God! Jesus has a God! Jesus died! God can’t die! God raised Jesus from the dead! The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
The earliest Christians didn’t believe Jesus was God. At least not in the same manner Christendom does today. Christology as it were developed over time, and can even be seen in the NT writings. There was no doctrine of the “Trinity” in Jesus day. I think it’s important to make the distinction between what Christians today attribute to Christ versus what would have been considered true in the 1st century. As Ehrman likes to say “Christianity is a religion about Jesus, not Jesus’s religion.” If the concept of incarnation and the Trinity is mind bending, it’s because it was crafted by human minds between the 1st and 4th century AD. The doctrine itself arose out of the need to combat other conflicting theologies that proto orthodox took exception with.
actuary 1776 How could there be a doctrine of the Trinity in “Jesus days” as you put it. ,,,,if Jesus didn’t die yet?...Jesus said “I will send another who will make truth-know.. etc.”
franklix Well “Jesus day” doesn’t mean “the same day Jesus was alive”. “Jesus day” could refer to the first generation of Christians who were alive when he was. There was no concept of “3 separate persons 1 God” in Judaism ever, nor did the concept exist in the first century. This is a concept that developed over time as followers of Jesus started creating a religion about him. Jesus was a Jew, prayed to Yahweh, and followed Jewish law. Bart Ehrman has wrote extensively on this.
Jesus said the Father is the only true God! John 17 3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. RSV Only-monos God-theos Monos theos Monotheism The Father Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)! Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has ab God! Jesus has a God! Jesus died! God can’t die! God raised Jesus from the dead! The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM! Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings! Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
I want a discussion of the twin births of Dionysus who was snatched from the burning womb of Semele and sewn into the thigh of Zeus. It is Dionysus who promises eternal life.
You're very late to the party. The 19th century saw religious philosophers excavating all the ancient Greek and Mesopotamian myths and gods digging for parallels to Christ as a way of saying there's nothing new about Christianity. Today this line of argument has been long abandoned by academics because there are no parallels to Jesus of Christianity which hold up under scrutiny. These meritless comparisons are repeated today not by academics but by unsourced claims on the internet. Jesus of Nazareth was a historical figure geared into the history of ancient Palestine.
3:30-4:00ff. "Christian tradition doesn't say 'Jesus is God'; it says the second person of the Trinity [God] who is the Son [of God] and also God, became Jesus." And the logical difference is what again?🤔
One of my favorite topics to contemplate. I like to watch Science videos too and wonder how long man will look God "directly in the eye" and say He isnt there. At what point in man's quest to ignore and disprove God's existence, which is how I describe the atheist and most "scientists" endeavors ,will it reach a point to where it is enough, that the culmination of man's quest has reached that final curtain. How far will we peer into the innermost realms of sub particles to the outermost reaches of the Universe till we see Someone staring back at us?
Is smething becoming low or something becoming high is a question here. Is something specific possible. Maybe truth of some cosmic tension, presence of cosmic will, even of emerging of energy. What could influence our search. Direction, understanding, trying, being worth of...
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Subscribed purely bc I enjoyed watching these theologians and philosophers squirm thru the whole video.
Why does he not realise that gesus was the order and the devil is the chaos.
The Christian trinity? U in the past U in the present and you in the future
To complete the quadernity U The gift of fining the three
@Closer to Truth
If Jesus was God in flesh, then Hinduism also holds a valid claim, that their holy-men were God in flesh on Earth.
God becoming a man, is an imperfect God.
OT says, God is not a man in the book of Numbers.
Now imagine God-man ate food, used toilet, went to bed, then woke up with morning erection, and then God-man get occasional self discharge otherwise known as wet-dreams among men on Earth.
First and second commandments of God, went down the drain, if Jesus was "God" in flesh.
Thank God, I am a Muslim.
Love this man's curiosity
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has ab God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
More than his moustache?
@@b.g.5869 ooo, that's a tough choice 🤭😬
@@mitchellc4 ugh shutup
I do to but i am coming to the point where his questions and choice of answerers become self-reinforcing He is always going to Cambridge and Harvard and various places in the west.
Sometimes i think this is just about keeping his gig going Go east Robert See what you might find there Maybe there is no answer...only silence
I wanted Robert to press the guests a little harder.
The end game would all have been the same. Faith
Well - then you would have to replace Robert with me. And would not have that position for long.
His intention isn't to debate people. He wants to present different perspectives.
Also, he's been doing this off and on for over 20 years with just a few years off air in the mid 2000s, and for most of that time had pretty much gone over the same handful of topics, often with the very same people, multiple times, which gets very repetitive. I think he wanted to try something different.
And how would you press each of them further?
I agree that RLK's intention was not to debate. Instead I imagine his intent was to let each person take his/her best shot at explaining beliefs about Jesus -- and then let us the viewers judge for ourselves. I imagine this because more than just about any other topic he has covered there is absolutely no empirical evidence to support any position so it's all "poetry" as N.T. Wright observes.
Sir Robert, you are truly an exquisite man. You are the perfect embodiment of curious yet tasteful skepticism and intellectual virtue. I love how you can entertain something you cannot grasp, without letting your desire for knowledge tarnish your intellectual standards, and at the same time how your standards don't render you non-receptive to the possibility that there may exist aspects of reality that can be reached by transcending these standards.
Indeed. Well said. He is a model for how all of us should approach life. Open to anything, walled in by nothing, yet insistent on a measure of coherence. (I say "a measure" of coherence, because God would transcend our coherent categories of thinking, yet would not be irrational, though likely suprarational).
As a young 20 year old student of history of religion at Lund university I had an aha-moment after speaking to one of the teachers privately about his beliefs. I came to realize that a person can be extraordinarily intelligent and extraordinarily learned and still believe in anything, even the most absurd. Now at 70, I sadly haven't experienced anything to make me change my mind. It seems that a persons religious beliefs are rooted in factors totally irrational.
For reasons best known to God, he hides the knowledge of the truth from worldly scholars and intellectuals.
Jesus in prayer to God says:
Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus said in response: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have HIDDEN these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children.
Thus, if someone wants to learn the truth, there must be humility and a desire to learn.
God has a people whom he is gathering from all religions to be survivors of the destruction he is to bring to end this wicked system. He promised this through his prophet at Micah 4:1-5. They have a book explaining the basic truths found in the bible. Here is the free download link.
www.jw.org/en/library/books/?contentLanguageFilter=en&pubFilter=bh&sortBy=1
I hope this helps.
I totally agree with you.
yes , that baffles me, how can people be so learned and intelligent yet so foolhardy when it comes to things like religion
I think what I've learned the most from this series is an effective way to approach curiosity and inquiry.
That’s a great thing to learn from this series! The host never really strays from his position right at the place where you consider the most unknowable unknowns lol. If you watch enough, you can see that he’s really really sharing his personal journey with the audience, and there’s nuance to his conclusions.
That's beautiful honestly. 🙂
Start with NDE. Most people who experience what ensues recognize that God is all of consciousness. We all have a spirit which is connected. Those who come back are charged with the mission to love, forgive and help. We all have a spirit which is filtered through the physical brain. Our spirit is a part of the overall collection of spirit. We are here to experience life. We go back when our body expires to come back again to experience and learn more. God sends NDEers to spread love and faith. Jesus was sent down with that purpose.
We are all a piece of God. We are God’s personal experience as you. ❤️
Your comment is about as close to the concept of God that I have been able to entertain. Although I have also wondered, if this were true, God must either experience being really lonely, bored (?) or could it be that God had nothing else more important at the moment to do than divide himself up into each human being in order to experience (justify?) himself from the point of view of individual, free willed (?) beings that he himself created (does that make sense ?). I DO feel very much like RLK, an insatiatiable urge to know, study, ponder, and continue searching for (the) truth.
It amazes me the skill with which theologians tap dance better than Richard Gere in Chicago.
She's just explaining her faith dude sounds out-winded. I try get it though and, no need to discredit because honestly no one knows.
Lol. Was just thinking it's a lot of double-talk mumbo jumbo conjecture twisted to fit what they want to believe.
I have never met an honest theologian. Because the ones who are intellectually honest are no longer theologians.
I guess theology is like tap dancing, then: only some people can understand it, even less people have the skill to do it. The rest of us can either learn to appreciate and enjoy it and do it, or ignore and be ignorant of the phenomenon.
😂
6:49 “This is where it becomes very mind-bending…” Yeah, the preceding four minutes of mental gymnastics explaining the Trinity were super straight-forward…
Some people's CHOICE OF (QUESTIONS)
leads them down the wrong path and away from the answer they don't understand yet.
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has ab God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
There are no definitive, unassailable answers to metaphysical questions; it's all a mystery. Maybe death is simply the end or maybe death reveals all.
Or maybe metaphysical questions are just bad questions
@@gerhitchman Said like a true reductionist. May I remind you, many of the greatest minds in history have wondered honestly at things metaphysical. I wish you well.
@@robertrowland3750 Yes, and may I remind you, that there has been no progress on metaphysical questions for over 2000 years
@@gerhitchman Not just for over 2,000 years my friend but as far back as mankind goes. It's the very nature of metaphysics that it's transcendental and so, beyond knowing; and though destined to remain unverifiable, it has always and continues to engender profound questions. Therein lies the rub.
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has ab God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
You came so close to the Truth in this video you could have almost touched him.
It's a pagan belief
He is a true lier you belive that crap the guy is ignorant of knowledge with no prove at all to stand his teaching ideas
THIS CLOSE TO TRUTH 👌
2 Timothy 3:7
@jakobbogale2350 yes because a video discussing an inherently contradictory concept is getting closer to the truth and also you can't touch something that isn't physically there
A segment from 'Saved by the Light of the Buddha Within'...
My new understandings of what many call 'God -The Holy Spirit' - resulting from some of the extraordinary ongoing after-effects relating to my NDE...
Myoho-Renge-Kyo represents the identity of what some scientists are now referring to as the unified field of consciousnesses. In other words, it’s the essence of all existence and non-existence - the ultimate creative force behind planets, stars, nebulae, people, animals, trees, fish, birds, and all phenomena, manifest or latent. All matter and intelligence are simply waves or ripples manifesting to and from this core source. Consciousness (enlightenment) is itself the actual creator of everything that exists now, ever existed in the past, or will exist in the future - right down to the minutest particles of dust - each being an individual ripple or wave.
The big difference between chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo and most other conventional prayers is that instead of depending on a ‘middleman’ to connect us to our state of inner enlightenment, we’re able to do it ourselves. That’s because chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo allows us to tap directly into our enlightened state by way of this self-produced sound vibration. ‘Who or What Is God?’ If we compare the concept of God being a separate entity that is forever watching down on us, to the teachings of Nichiren, it makes more sense to me that the true omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence of what most people perceive to be God, is the fantastic state of enlightenment that exists within each of us. Some say that God is an entity that’s beyond physical matter - I think that the vast amount of information continuously being conveyed via electromagnetic waves in today’s world gives us proof of how an invisible state of God could indeed exist.
For example, it’s now widely known that specific data relayed by way of electromagnetic waves has the potential to help bring about extraordinary and powerful effects - including an instant global awareness of something or a mass emotional reaction. It’s also common knowledge that these invisible waves can easily be used to detonate a bomb or to enable NASA to control the movements of a robot as far away as the Moon or Mars - none of which is possible without a receiver to decode the information that’s being transmitted. Without the receiver, the data would remain impotent. In a very similar way, we need to have our own ‘receiver’ switched on so that we can activate a clear and precise understanding of our own life, all other life and what everything else in existence is.
Chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo each day helps us to achieve this because it allows us to reach the core of our enlightenment and keep it switched on. That’s because Myoho-Renge-Kyo represents the identity of what scientists now refer to as the unified field of consciousnesses. To break it down - Myoho represents the Law of manifestation and latency (Nature) and consists of two alternating states. For example, the state of Myo is where everything in life that’s not obvious to us exists - including our stored memories when we’re not thinking about them - our hidden potential and inner emotions whenever they’re dormant - our desires, our fears, our wisdom, happiness, karma - and more importantly, our enlightenment.
The other state, ho, is where everything in Life exists whenever it becomes evident to us, such as when a thought pops up from within our memory - whenever we experience or express our emotions - or whenever a good or bad cause manifests as an effect from our karma. When anything becomes apparent, it merely means that it’s come out of the state of Myo (dormancy/latency) and into a state of ho (manifestation). It’s the difference between consciousness and unconsciousness, being awake or asleep, or knowing and not knowing.
The second law - Renge - Ren meaning cause and ge meaning effect, governs and controls the functions of Myoho - these two laws of Myoho and Renge, not only function together simultaneously but also underlies all spiritual and physical existence.
The final and third part of the tri-combination - Kyo, is the Law that allows Myoho to integrate with Renge - or vice versa. It’s the great, invisible thread of energy that fuses and connects all Life and matter - as well as the past, present and future. It’s also sometimes termed the Universal Law of Communication - perhaps it could even be compared with the string theory that many scientists now suspect exists.
Just as the cells in our body, our thoughts, feelings and everything else is continually fluctuating within us - all that exists in the world around us and beyond is also in a constant state of flux - constantly controlled by these three fundamental laws. In fact, more things are going back and forth between the two states of Myo and ho in a single moment than it would ever be possible to calculate or describe. And it doesn’t matter how big or small, famous or trivial anything or anyone may appear to be, everything that’s ever existed in the past, exists now or will exist in the future, exists only because of the workings of the Laws ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’ - the basis of the four fundamental forces, and if they didn’t function, neither we nor anything else could go on existing. That’s because all forms of existence, including the seasons, day, night, birth, death and so on, are moving forward in an ongoing flow of continuation - rhythmically reverting back and forth between the two fundamental states of Myo and ho in absolute accordance with Renge - and by way of Kyo. Even stars are dying and being reborn under the workings of what the combination ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’ represents. Nam, or Namu - which mean the same thing, are vibrational passwords or keys that allow us to reach deep into our life and fuse with or become one with ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’.
On a more personal level, nothing ever happens by chance or coincidence, it’s the causes that we’ve made in our past, or are presently making, that determine how these laws function uniquely in each of our lives - as well as the environment from moment to moment. By facing east, in harmony with the direction that the Earth is spinning, and chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo for a minimum of, let’s say, ten minutes daily to start with, any of us can experience actual proof of its positive effects in our lives - even if it only makes us feel good on the inside, there will be a definite positive effect. That’s because we’re able to pierce through the thickest layers of our karma and activate our inherent Buddha Nature (our enlightened state). By so doing, we’re then able to bring forth the wisdom and good fortune that we need to challenge, overcome and change our adverse circumstances - turn them into positive ones - or manifest and gain even greater fulfilment in our daily lives from our accumulated good karma. This also allows us to bring forth the wisdom that can free us from the ignorance and stupidity that’s preventing us from accepting and being proud of the person that we indeed are - regardless of our race, colour, gender or sexuality. We’re also able to see and understand our circumstances and the environment far more clearly, as well as attract and connect with any needed external beneficial forces and situations. As I’ve already mentioned, everything is subject to the law of Cause and Effect - the ‘actual-proof-strength’ resulting from chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo always depends on our determination, sincerity and dedication.
For example, the levels of difference could be compared to making a sound on a piano, creating a melody, producing a great song, and so on. Something else that’s very important to always respect and acknowledge is that the Law (or if you prefer God) is in everyone and everything.
NB: There are frightening and disturbing sounds, and there are tranquil and relaxing sounds. It’s the emotional result of any noise or sound that can trigger off a mood or even instantly change one. When chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo each day, we are producing a sound vibration that’s the password to our true inner-self - this soon becomes apparent when you start reassessing your views on various things - such as your fears and desires etc. The best way to get the desired result when chanting is not to view things conventionally - rather than reaching out to an external source, we need to reach into our own lives and bring our needs and desires to fruition from within - including the good fortune and strength to achieve any help that we may need. Chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo also reaches out externally and draws us towards, or draws towards us, what we need to make us happy from our environment. For example, it helps us to be in the right place at the right time - to make better choices and decisions and so forth. We need to think of it as a seed within us that we’re watering and bringing sunshine to for it to grow, blossom and bring forth fruit or flowers. It’s also important to understand that everything we need in life, including the answer to every question and the potential to achieve every dream, already exists within us.
I was trying to imagine the very face of God,
What happened instead was really quite odd!
Each time I looked to see His face,
Images appeared from the human race.
I saw the face of a Doctor as he stopped to stare,
unable to find the cancer he knew was there.
I saw the hands of a Mother reaching her child,
a Park Ranger's smile as a cub is released back into the wild.
I saw the peace in the face of a man who was blind,.
giving directions to a place someone couldn't find.
I looked for the face of my dear Lord,
and saw the faces of so many in one accord.
But still, it was His face, I longed to see,
and was given one final image,... a picture of me!
I do have a question for you, Dr. Kuhn. Can you identify any significant changes in your view of reality due to your contact with so many experts? I wonder.... Thank you again for this great program. I learn so much!!
Unique episode. Ask God to know the truth that He wants you to know, even if it's hard to accept, just so it's the truth.
Doesn’t that argument seem fallacious to you?
The question of Jesus as Son of God, I get the feeling that Lawrence isn't convinced for a moment.
I get the feeling that when he is listening here to Christians he is thinking to himself "This is crazy talk".
Jesus referred to himself as the ''Son of Man'' - which is found 82 times in the New Testament. The title ''Son of Man'' is used 93 times in the Book of Ezekiel.
The Son of Man in Ezekiel has many parallels to the Son of Man in the New Testament.
the arian heresy which stated that Jesus and God were separate was extremely popular in the early Christian movement. it seems to me likely that the early church decided, realized that paradox, mystery is more accurate (in their view) and emotionally, poetically powerful. it's also good to think about Plato and Plotinus. In the platonic view the one (which is beyond human conception) overflows into Intelligence. Intelligence overflows into existence. Existence (spirit) overflows into duality. Duality overflows into material reality. So in essence everything is the one. The one (the good) overflows like a fountain into everything. Both creates and is. But everything is still itself.
@@asielnorton345 I dont believe that JohnE subscribes to Arianism. "Son of God" is a Jewish reference to Angels in the old testament.
The amount of gymnastics a person will do to prove their world view instead of changing their mind based on evidence
Yeah it seems pretty clear Jesus was not God or the 2nd part of the trinity. These were all inventions of humans to deify Jesus.
I have a deep sense that I'm wasting my time with this particular episode. I could be learning stuff that will actually improve my life in some way.
Probably not. If religion is right about something, which it rarely is, it is right by accident.
There's no value in lies.
@Bob Smith atheism isn't a religion by definition.
The more I try to understand it all the more I long to spend my time cleaning my cooker.
I love how people think they know what God is and is not capable of... have they ever been a god?
It's true, that the act of incarnating as a lower level of intelligence is a mystery, even to celestial beings, but they never presume to claim they know what's possible and what isn't, where God is concerned.
he trouble with you creatures is that you use words or symbols without having any idea what you mean by them or seek to convey when you use them.
if you are going to speak with another using words or symbols you had best agree as the the meaning or value of those symbols. no int talking about god unless your interlocutor gives the same value or meaning to that word- in practice it evokesidentical associations in both of you.
god means different things to different people- self evidently, so there is no point in discussing X unless you both give it the same value or meaning,
some envision god as a being and some as a thing
If for A X is 8and for B X=9, theyy they are not speaking of the same thing.
Our soul/consciousness can over ride our body's instinct reactions at times. We can experience both at the same time. Fear and bravery (with purpose) at the same time for example .With fear your instinct tells you to run but at the same time your experiencing that you know you have a goal to achieve that may affect a desired future outcome like winning a war requiring you to set aside that fear and be brave to play your part.. When we sacrifice ourselves for others you experience things like this. Those fork in the road moments where your higher consciousness is able to over ride something as powerful as natural instinct to survive.
I seem to remember Kurt Vonnegut characterizing himself as “a Christ-Worshiping Atheist”. This video brings clarity to this view that may ultimately provide the key to this problem of Christ’s nature. One can suspend belief in a cosmological supreme being and approach the transcendent through a relationship with someone totally human. Nicely presented, Dr. Kuhn, and thank you for your rigorous skepticism.
I love Vonnegut, one of many great "Christian atheists"
I like to imagine what Jesus was like as a schoolboy.
In kindergarten, the teachers must have noticed that he was extraordinarily bright.
In science, he completely understood quantum mechanics and harmonised it with relativity.
In mathematics class, he solved all the differential equations in no time at all.
In biology, his essay on the Origin of Species was simply magical.
His attendance record, of course, was 110% because of his omnipresence.
Some people didn't like his omniscience. He was, after all, a bit of a know-all.
He didn't bath very often, but his blonde hair and omnipotence made him very popular with the girls.
But oddly, he preferred the company of boys and this preference stayed with him all his lice.
He was very good at sports and enjoyed some board games, but didn't see any point in playing dice.
Actually no he wasn't perhaps a human being with a lot of limitations but it is precisely at that juncture that the substance of God is/was revealed to human beings. Humility and faithfulness at the very core of existence.
@@vecumex9466
Jesus knew everything and he could do anything.
He knew how to operate heavy machinery and solve crossword puzzles.
In his spare time he liked to translate French literature into Esperanto.
@@vecumex9466
While Jesus was still in diapers, his hobby was building model helicopters.
As there were no batteries available in the shops, he powered them by solar panels.
Sadly, his brilliant lectures fell on deaf ears.
Rationalization is anathema to finding GOD. Receptivity, and possibly the right hemisphere makes the connection
Is it not God who gave the power of rationalisation?
Technically, Jesus of Nazareth was never a "Christian". He apparently was born, raised as and died as a Jew. it's also interesting that other than scribbling in the sand/dirt with a stick on one occasion that he never actually wrote anything by his own hand. Equally fascinating is that he almost certainly spoke in the common tongue of Aramaic (or even Hebrew though the evidence is less convincing historically) and would have been able to incorporate via Hebraic mnemonic storytelling devices to those whom he spoke to and interacted with.
Those writings referred to as the New Testament were all written in a form of Greek from the Common Era. Greek was the common/shared language of the Roman Empire so that makes sense to some degree. The New Testament documents would have technically been accessible to a wider audience geographically as this 'fringe' Jewish sect eventually branched into its own religious movement perhaps sometime between around 70 C.E. and by 125 C.E. that was called Christianity.
It's also telling that a rabbinic teacher known as Saul of Tarsus became Paul of Tarsus following his own 'mystical/saturated phenomenon' experience with this apparently resurrected Jesus of Nazareth (who had been functionally executed as an 'enemy of the Roman state' via crucifixion). Paul of Tarsus (a former agitator of this small Jewish sect and a Hellenistic Jew himself) ended up becoming the largest single authorial contributor to the New Testament. He literally shaped much of this early Jewish sect and his Hellenistic rabbinic education would have influenced his style and semantic concepts/choices and philosophical rumination. That obviously impacted what he reflected upon regarding this resurrected 'divine' human being as he composed his primarily incidental letters and correspondence. Paul's letters helped give transitional shape, context and hermeneutical reflexivity to this branched-out group whom we call Christians.
Jesus was not 'of Nazereth'. The inscription INRI refers to Jesus the Nazirite, (King of the Jews). Nazirites were a sect of the Essenes, the sect responsible for collecting tithes, and went around as a well armed gang. Judas Iscariot was Jesus' bodyguard and best friend.
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has ab God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
@@mitchellc4 the point of the dirt writing was to re-affirm the way in which God relates to life....that is through 'writing directly in the dirt'. We are obviously the dirt....in fact, everything is dirt.
Streets of Vancouver... There are multiple religions in the world... some just broke away and started started their own
The story of the woman taken in adultery from the gospel of "John" in which Jesus writes in the dirt does not even show up in the text until the fourth century. It's an interpolation and almost certainly is not historically accurate.
I’m relieved for the moment that I am drawn near to the Creator while I spectate the nature I share with other fellow humans of faith. I believe to let yourself be known first and live your life by way of the son to bring others with you as we all love each other in our love for the father. This was contrary to Dr Kuhn final comment in this video. Would anyone like to assist with this preoccupation?
"Let there be light" is Man's consciousness wanting to know. Our finding out is the creating process, and our final knowing is seeing the Creation as in a mirror, as our own body. Plato said something similar, and Christianity, with eyes on both traditions, and having seen such knowing in the man Jesus--loving the whole as his own body--saw the same brilliant light. It was necessarily introduced through ego-friendly mysteries--the truth is no friend to the ego--so alas, and of course they did, the mysteries very quickly became the final word, and the deeper truth--heresy.
Hegel and others more or less reasoned out the same thing over 200 years ago, and the Church said, and of course it did: "Turn that light off!"
It's simple really, and as Paul said, everyone knows it: Jesus is, and you and I can be God because God is Love. We long for God in that we long for the all-encompassing and eternal union that is love.
the trouble with you creatures is that you use words or symbols without having any idea what you mean by them or seek to convey when you use them
@@vhawk1951kl If that's directed towards me, tell me more. Show me the light.
Amen.
Right on.
@@davidyoung1164 iIf the cap fits...
I love these series. But I see a flaw in them. The uneven leaning towards skepticism as the best tool to ascertain truth. I see another issue here. When you try to grasp something as banal as consciousness, we end up confused and dumbfounded. Now if you think you could define the Infinite One in a test tube and give two examples of Him, then we are bound to mystified and dumbfounded. The very basis of Worship is being mystified and dumbfounded. I would rather see that there is humility and room for mystery. After all if we can figure out infinity, then our minds must be bigger than infinity. Therefore we must be gods, we are not and our minds are finite. We cannot define nothing, much less God so I would leave room for mystery and faith here Dr Kuhn.
“Leave room for mystery”
Well said!! I’m not making any appeals to authority but according to the literary genius G.K. Chesterton….
“Mysticism keeps men sane. As long as you have mystery you have health; when you destroy mystery you create morbidity. The ordinary man has always been sane because the ordinary man has always been a mystic.” (G.K.Chesterton).
Furthermore, a community of hundreds of people meet in a church every Sunday in London they sing songs and listen to guest speakers. Sometimes it feels like a stand up comedy show if the speaker has funny anecdotes and is also in touch with every day ordinary people including the absurdity and joy of life.
During the service the congregation bow their heads and contemplate the (mystery) and miracle of life for a few minutes. A member of the congregation gives a poignant testimony about how his mothers life and death influenced his spiritual journey. During these services they discuss the importance of wisdom, knowledge and volunteering. But this (Sunday assemblies) are no ordinary church service as they are all atheists or describe themselves as “unreligious”.
They even chat over tea, coffee and biscuits afterwards as it creates a sense of community spirit and human connectedness. What a brilliant service to the community and what a brilliant format and idea. I wonder where they got that idea from!???
Sounds very ironic and pretty (mystical) and actually quite wholesome and beautiful and all (mystics) are on equal footing under relativism!!
“I think that you cannot eliminate religion from the psyche of mankind. If you suppress it in one form, it merely emerges in another form. Even if you don't believe in God, you still have to believe in something that gives meaning to your life, and shapes your sense of the world. Such a belief is religious.” (Michael Crichton). .
“It is exactly this balance of apparent contradictions that has been the whole buoyancy of the healthy man. The whole secret of (mysticism) is this: that man can understand everything by the help of what he does not understand. The morbid logician seeks to make everything lucid, and succeeds in making everything mysterious. The mystic allows one thing to be mysterious, and everything else becomes lucid. The determinist makes the theory of causation quite clear, and then finds that he cannot say "if you please" to the housemaid. The Christian permits free will to remain a sacred mystery; but because of this his relations with the housemaid become of a sparkling and crystal clearness. He puts the seed of dogma in a central darkness; but it branches forth in all directions with abounding natural health. As we have taken the circle as the symbol of reason and madness, we may very well take the cross as the symbol at once of mystery and of health. Buddhism is centripetal, but Christianity is centrifugal: it breaks out. For the circle is perfect and infinite in its nature; but it is fixed for ever in its size; it can never be larger or smaller. But the cross, though it has at its heart a collision and a contradiction, can extend its four arms for ever without altering its shape. Because it has a paradox in its centre it can grow without changing. The circle returns upon itself and is bound. The cross opens its arms to the four winds; it is a signpost for free travellers.
Symbols alone are of even a cloudy value in speaking of this deep matter; and another symbol from physical nature will express sufficiently well the real place of mysticism before mankind. The one created thing which we cannot look at is the one thing in the light of which we look at everything -- Like the sun at noonday, mysticism explains everything else by the blaze of its own victorious invisibility -- Detached intellectualism is (in the exact sense of a popular phrase) all moonshine; for it is light without heat, and it is secondary light, reflected from a dead world. But the Greeks were right when they made Apollo the god both of imagination and of sanity; for he was both the patron of poetry and the patron of healing. Of necessary dogmas and a special creed I shall speak later. But that transcendentalism by which all men live has primarily much the position of the sun in the sky. We are conscious of it as of a kind of splendid confusion; it is something both shining and shapeless, at once a blaze and a blur. But the circle of the moon is as clear and unmistakable, as recurrent and inevitable, as the circle of Euclid on a blackboard. For the moon is utterly reasonable; and the moon is the mother of lunatics and has given to them all her name.” (G.K. Chesterton).
“At this moment it seems as though science will never be able to raise the curtain on the mystery of creation. For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.”
All the best to you and your family and keep safe.
I love listening to people today talk about things that almost for sure didn’t happen 2000 years ago like they know exactly what happened and why it happened.
There may be a fine line between Christian apologists and idiocy, but I haven't found it.
I appreciate your thoughtful approach. Dr.’s Teryl and Fiona Givens might have a unique perspective that contributes to the discussion.
Gosple of Thomas buddism and aspects of those whom have used certain hallucinatory material.
Jesus, with Holy Spirit descending upon him after the baptism was the time/symbol of awareness of oneness.
Jesus the Christ keeps repeating A
and answering this question yet the church and people keep failing to connect the dots.
If you follow Jesus , you will be closer to truth , closer to God .
Yeah, just ask Josh Duggar! But better do it soon - he's going away for 20 years.....
Following Jesus as a good man to lead you to God 👌.
But considering Jesus himself God is the worst way to be closer to God.
@Eonian Sage At his best
A fascinating episode. However, it might have been clearer if those interviewed had mentioned this one fact: Prior to the Word becoming flesh (human), God had already created humanity in his image and likeness. While we are not omnipotent or omniscient, there is some kind of one-to-one correspondence between us and our Creator that made the incarnation possible.
Image meaning - Rational, Creative, and having the capacity to love.
We are one messed up confused species.
Thank you so much , C. Stephen Evans, for the answer that cannot be more "Yes, Jesus is God". Because God is love.
The whole notion of a god in this world filled with the suffering of innocent children is the perfection of narcissism and nothing else. Also, it is just such a strange claim - why would there be a god, and why exactly one? Why not just grow up?
What if god doesn't care about the suffering of innocent children? What if he's indifferent to our suffering?
@@LameBushido Yes then what?
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
- Epicurus (341-270 BCE)
Jesus probably did exist, and was someone like Mohandis (Mahatma) Gandhi. A living breathing human being, who was willing to sacrifice his own life to teach others a moral way to live and love one another. Was he the 'Son of God?' No. God or the Cosmos is beyond our total comprehension. What ever created the Multiverse if a what or who is necessary, is far removed from anything human. We just happen to be lucky enough to have been born of this Universe that can support sentient life.
Modern Pantheism makes more sense than some ancient 'Old Man in the Sky' legend. There is no Heaven or Hell, only the reality of constantly recycling Universes in the infinite possibilities of the Multiverse; a beginning without end, an end without a beginning, like an M.C.Escher drawing; and infinity with edges that goes on forever.
Is there a difference between good and evil? Maybe... it's probably just the choice of our reasonably intelligent and sentient mind in regards to sustainability of life itself. No need for an orthodox God of the plethora of religions and belief systems, just the Universe itself. So, get used to it. We are the masters of our own destiny. No one's going to rescue us. We must save ourselves. The sooner we realize that the better.
There are no races of human beings. 'We are Earthlings; just one family of the human species that originally all came out of Africa, that are living on a tiny insignificant planet, orbiting an average star, lost in an ordinary galaxy, in a tiny forgotten part of the Universe, in a multitude of Multiverses. The Cosmos is all that is, or was, or ever will be'. Are we sentient human beings special? Yes, of course. 'Our ancestors worshiped the Sun, and were not foolish, because it makes sense to revere the Sun and stars, for we are their children... We are a way for the Cosmos to know itself' - Carl Sagan.
Jesus is God and a human being at the same time. Perfect God, Perfect man.
That first lady started off wrong, she's talking about God the
Father, ... Jesus is fully God and Fully Human...so not a great way to start the video
How would you know?
Why aren't Jesus' four brothers also god?
@@EvilXtianity Interesting question, I have never thought about it. Long live mate!
@cristovive how can something be fully god and fully man at the same time
Suffering...Science made my life easier and I don’t say that lightly. With all the discoveries in medicine I can have a longer life than my ancestors. But there is another suffering that seems to be the elephant in the room in the west, like death or getting older or what do you do when you get jealous or angry...what do you do when you lose (in any situation) or go through a tragedy, and what about the suffering of others? Jesus suffered, He put suffering in the forefront and then was able to transcendent it. What does all this mean? I don’t know but it makes me feel less lonely when I suffer. (Of course you can think about suffering without Jesus). So I wonder if looking for Truth is the right word. I think meaning is more appropriate when you think about God.
Would slaves only build pyramids if they were paid or treatened with "hell"? or would Life care for the life we LOVE wheather we were paid or not ?
That's what the story of Jesus was all about. Life IS suffering. Breathe that truth in. Accept it. There is no changing it. To live is to suffer. Quit trying to make your life not suck, it can't happen. Instead, do whatever you can to make other's lives suck less. Interestingly, (yet not surprisingly) psychological studies show us that this attitude towards life produce the most fulfillment and satisfaction. Like our brains and souls know the only justification for going through this life of pain, tragedy, pessimism, and unquenchable thirsts every day is that maybe we did some good.
Also, remember to keep an eternal perspective. You will exist forever. Ten thousand years from now, the tragedies of your short time on Earth will be as forgotten and forgivable as that kid who pushed you off the swing in 3rd grade.
I think most folks use the word "suffering" to refer to two different but related things. The first is physical suffering -- a.k.a. pain. For example, one suffers with diabetes. The second is emotional suffering, as in suffering the loss of a loved one. If you see these separately then yes, there will always be pain. But there does not have to be suffering. The Buddha showed us how to do this over 2500 years ago.
@@itneeds2bsaid528
Yes, it's all about suffering (in this life) and like Jesus, the "suffering servant" who came to earth, we are also expected to suffer....."take up thy cross and follow me", Jesus said. So suffering is all part of this life.
NOW YOU GOT IT RIGHT! JESUS IS GOD
It's Thor!
Jesus is as close to God as we can ever expect to get.
Jesus and God does not exist only in your ignorant inmagination
@@josegaleano1530 Your talking about Him. That means He exists.
And ... Christopher ... you know that how?
@@josegaleano1530 thats an opinion not proof....
Try to convince us if you really care to seek for truth.....
On God and suffering... the fact that Jesus suffered, means that he is sympathetic to our suffering... God, the Father, does something different than what Jesus did... rather than being a separate person, God the Divine Father, sends a fragment of himself into each person who is at that point where they are making moral decisions. Thus God shares all our suffering with us, directly.
The best line fragment in this episode is "Think of it as bad science fiction...". "Analytic sophistication" or not, it is ultimately all paradox and mystery cards. And, of course, faith; belief without evidence or good reason. Once you have faith you can believe anything. ANYTHING.
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has ab God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
To have faith is to have faith in faith. All they're arguments are diversionary window dressing.
“We are asked by science to believe that the entire universe sprang from nothingness, and at a single point and for no discernible reason. This notion is the limit case for credulity. In other words, if you can believe this, you can believe anything.”
Knowing is experienced not an understooding. We known the bike by riding the bike not by anylizing the bike properties. We known God the same way and we know Jesus is God the same way. We practice in the holy spirit: love, faith, hope, patience, understanding, self-control, courage. We know God by living life fully. Fully with all your mind, heart, soul, and strength. God is love, so by loving we experience God.
@14:47 Does not this sound like the highest bar or standard for a God worthy of human belief or even consideration !?
14:19 "But how is it possible to be fully human and fully devine at the same time?" 🙄🤦♂️ So "divinity" is a matter of Fact now.?. The supernatural exists?
Maybe Jesus is like water/ice - in certain circumstances he is human/God and what causes the shift in nature is who he is interacting with, his environment which collapses his wave-function.
Good example. Spirituality works like this for those who reach deep in and clear out or transcend
Or maybe, just maybe, this is based upon archaic superstitions. That is the more likely scenario.
Except H2O can’t be both solid and liquid simultaneously, which is core to the Trinitarian Christian claim.
In spirit or in flesh?
Renew your mind in the correct domain.
See yet not knowing
Hear yet not understanding
A few may find the narrow door
Many did not see yet believe, blessed are these.
@@Trader_Logan u don't have to dive deep for the truth. U dive in abyss. Please accept Muhammad saw as a true messenger bcz he testified that jesus was real and he was close to God and he was born without father and that he was taken to heaven and he will return. God sent a message to you saying simple truth. Jesus is not God. God is One. He has no partners no sons no daughters. If u still wouldn't believe. Hell is the place for you
Wow, thank you RLK for the excellent exploration of the underpinnings of what to me is a consumate mystery. This should be required viewing and discussion for all who call themselves believers in Christianity.
The concept of the Trinity is blatantly pagan. It began in Ancient Babylon and made its way throughout the world. It can be found in the history of most ancient civilizations. The reason that Philo of Alexandria is cited as the one that brought us the Trinity, is for his direct involvement with mixing Greek philosophy with the Holy Scriptures.
Huh? It’s in the Bible for everyone to see
@@deanodebo Remember when the Isrealites were in captivity in Egypt and Babylon? Well there is where they've learned the 3 in 1 concept. Read how Stephen in Acts 7 blasted them for always resisting the Holy Spirit as their ancestors did. And they killed him for telling the truth.
You'll understand why Jesus calls them of the Synagogue of Satan and why Jesus said Beware of the teachings of the Pharisees and Saduccees. And what are they teaching? Babylonian mysticism they call the Kabbalah. That's why their book is called the Babylonian Talmud. The Supernal Triad of the Kabbalah is the foundation of the blasphemous Trinity doctrine and not the Bible.
The Bible teaches ONE GOD (Spirit) and ONE LORD (Jesus/human) 1 Cor 8:6.
@@JudeOne3Four do you deny 1 John, which clearly and plainly says they are one?
For this topic I wish you had interviewed Catholic Apologist like Dr Brant Petri or Dr Scott Han. They are well verse on the topic of Jesus divinity.
Jesus is just another human being who God has sent to teach the people. There is only one God.
As catholic i believed in Trinity. If you wanted to know what it is, or want to argue on this, you may search Catholic Answer website
@@nonitoopena73 You can't simply follow other people and every time someone asks you about what you believe you tell them to ask the other people that you are following. God will bring each person and asks them about what they have done in this life.
Hahaha
@@mazen1010 She believes in the Trinity. This includes that Jesus Is God. She stated her belief clearly. You just dont accept it, because you are Muslim.. , Jewish early Rabbinic Sages call for two Power in Heaven. The jewish theologian Benjamin Sommer Studied anicent Isreal. And He found the concept of the incarnation of God and the concept of the trinity in the anicent Isreal. So it is a really jewish belief. Not a christian invention.
You need a PhD in intellectual gymnastics to surmise anything concrete from this video. Even with a decent command of metaphor in this discipline, I am totally none the wiser!
Actually, I understood this quite easily. No PhD.
what was unclear, maybe i can help :)
I hear people saying that
It’s impossible to understand. Why? Because quite simply Jesus is not God, why do we look to philosophy for explanation. The apostle Paul himself warned the 1st century Christian’s in Colossae at Colossians 2:8 saying that they should not be taken captive by philosophy and deception. Paul knew, given the growing influence of the Greeks at the time, that this was a real danger. How right he was!!!
It's just all BS. Grown folks who believe all kinds of nonsense 🤣
The price of entry for these arguments is two fold: trust in the trueness of biblical claims, and trust in descriptions of Jesus and God translated two millennia out of original context and into a plethora of current contexts. Forgive me my grain of salt.
There is no price of entry! Showing up for inquiry and conversation is sufficient. Accepting Jesus as God is another step and it is as personal as Jesus in Gethsemane asking God must he drink from the cup, must he die on the Cross! It is an astonishing claim that God became human, a confounding triune God. This man prefers to start with the Cosmos. That’s fine. There is no compulsion in faith.
I LOVE YOUR QUESTIONS.AM ALSO A TRUTH SEEKER AND I WILL BE WITH YOU IN FINDING IT.
those that abuse capital letter emphasise nothing but the hysteria of the abuser.
I had heard in another documentary that within the Church Jesus did not become God until around the 2nd century and/or in the reign of Augustus. This made it easier for the Church and/or emperor to "control" the members. I wonder how all of those theologians deal with such claims.
Well they would dismiss this because even Atheist New testament Scholar agree that the confession of the risen Jesus was shortly in max 2 years after bis crucifiction. And there are extra Biblical sources like Roman historians, who says Jesus was praised as Lord and God from his followers in 100 AD. So Yeah they would just dismiss this, because of historical facts.
The true meaning of the word Jesus is Ⅎ˥ƎSƎNO
"Those theologians" dealt with "those claims" by knowing something about history. For example, Augustus died in AD 14.
@@writereducator My mistake. Then not Augustus. I am not a student of ancient Roman history. 😉
When she said "it involves a certain analytical sophistication", I think she meant a great amount of irrational thinking... until you end up just ignoring it.
A better approach to “ is Jesus god?” is to break it into two steps: 1. “did God become man?” 2. “ is Jesus is that Man?”
An even better approach would be to not make the presupposition of the existence of god(s). That would be the first demonstration that would need to be done.
or an even better approach would be to presuppose that the bibe is infallible
What's so hard about all of these intelligent people just saying , I don't know , but this is what i want to believe.
Yes, the only source they have about Jesus is the Bible but they are not willing to accept what it says but use their own foolish reasons. Pathetic.
I don't quite understand the discussion. If we go by the gospels I don't think Jesus ever said he is God...but said he is one with God, or the Father (best way to describe things in that culture I'd assume), in essence re-affirming the Relationship. Jesus showed us who we are to God not so much who God is to us, in other words he is/was saying 'as you see my relationship, such is yours', and he goes further to say the entity or element that connects that perfectly (I hate that word, but...) is the 3rd part of that relationship, namely 'the Spirit.' To be honest it's actually quite simple as long as you don't try to turn Christ in Jesus form into an idol....which of course is natural for dualistic tendencies that were (again based on analogous gospel assumptions) as a result of eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil...that great eye opening moment. As long as we keep reflecting or 'looking up' to Jesus as God and not as the part of the relationship ...that we too can operate in.... we will debate things and miss the point.
What I love about the bible is the more you read it the more It encourages you to put it down and reflect. Or in other words, perhaps it's saying 'don't believe just by reading these words alone.' Jesus wrote in the dirt to affirm for those who have ears 'this is the manner in which we connect'...not through written word as 'the woman's accusers were claiming' (sorry, you need to read this passage to try to make sense of my thought). Jesus said 'greater things (if that's what you're interested in) than me you will do'. Jesus said to Peter he was blessed based on the fact flesh and blood had not revealed to him whom He was ....or in other words, blessed by partaking in the relational process (a big distinction from the standard belief that he was blessed for having received the information, or having understood the information).....I can go on, like my wife says I do.....but I'll finish there. Have a great day.
The bible is unauthorized collection of religious books written about Jesus. It has many contradictions.
So sad that these people are still confusing mythological reality with literal reality. ANd that they discuss it with such earnestness. It's like debating the degree to with the return of Persephone to Demeter for part of the year was actually accepted by Demeter. Or whether she is still punishing mankind for the separation. I mean, really.
Matthew 27 verse 46 "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? " That proves that Jesus was not God. End of story.
It's 'father' not my God. Which is consitent with the trinity (father, son, holy spirit).
After listening to these 'experts', I feel they could have used their literary skills as novelists, journalists or content writers, instead of talking abracadabra.
In the book of John Jesus said OVER AND OVER, that he is...."I AM" That is significant. Exodus 3:13 God tells Moses I AM has sent you. So when Jesus says I AM, that tells you who he is. It also tells you that some of these people he interviews don't know what they're talking about, despite their fancy old world University backdrops.
Yes
WE ARE ALL CHILDREN OF GOD INCLUDING JESUS.
The current Christian conception of God as Man could be so great and transformative if realized by the majority. Think about it....the most divine thing we could do is to embrace our collective humanity. To throw away the distinctions of old and to say we need each other. The gospel basically says that if a man is given the power of god the best thing he could do is be a good man. Something we all can do. Jesus suffered to show that we all suffer, and we have to use that suffering to mitigate the suffering of others. It's quite that simple.
Thats kinda one of the aspects of his mission, but to say thats the end goal is wrong. Jesus never taught that mankind could be good if they embraced eachothers suffering, he rather taught that mankind cannot have a change of heart on their own since man is immoral so is his suffering a result of his immorality, there is no mitigation in that. He rather said that it is His suffering alone that could guide mankind to a better future, since he is the embodiment of the ultimate good that had suffered the ultimate injustice for the sake of the creators of such injustice (us); thus showing an unmatchable virtue
@@danielespejo375if man is immoral by nature why make human beings with such a nature in the first if he is omnipotent?
All in all, it could be easily explained if our world is a computer simulation and God is its programmer, who then created his own character as Jesus in this simulation.
That sounds like an avatar and that doesn't accurately represent the christian trinitrian veiw at all
If theologians can't agree, why would an expect laymen, or atheists to agree?
The best proof in the Bible....settles this question once and all...because of the source....
In the Bible you will find by comparing Rev. 22:16 with Rev. 22:6-9 that a Holy Prophet Jesus sent, who has seen God clearly face to face in heaven calls Jesus LORD GOD of the Holy Prophets.
Let's break this down....
1. Jesus says He sent His Prophet.
Only God can send His Prophets.
2. The Holy Prophet Jesus sent says Jesus is LORD GOD of the Holy Prophets.
I'm sure God's Holy Prophets know who God is.
3. This Prophet is a UNIQUE VOICE IN THE BIBLE. Why? He is the only one `having seen God face to face in heaven', SEEING GOD CLEARLY, to tell us Jesus is GOD!
NO ONE IN THE BIBLE HAS SEEN GOD FACE TO FACE IN HEAVEN TELLING YOU JESUS IS LORD GOD OF THE HOLY PROPHETS, except for the Holy Prophet Jesus sent!!
@@bobgapper2234 im sure this is good enough for theologians, especially the kind who holds the bible as unfallible.
I don’t know its enough for philosophers who Get to it by argument, and see if it makes any sense logically speaking.
Thats what i was refering to, nothing is setteld.
@@DeadEndFrog
Not now, but it will be settled in the future. Who knows, maybe soon...
@@bobgapper2234 Well everyone loves predictions, because there is nothing to lose, not Even the idea itself is put to the test by these predictions
@@DeadEndFrog
I can predict that because the Earth is not the result of the big bang, it's not going to end the way you see it. Einstein formulated the big bang.
Quantum theory makes the big bang impossible.
Einstein wasn't particularly enamored with Quantum theory, but it is the dominant theory now.
Do away with big bang and all ya got left is the comedy TV show Big bang...then whatcha gonna do?
If you want to see why let me know.
Gnosis
/ˈnəʊsɪs/
noun
knowledge of spiritual mysteries.
In modern greek it just means 'knowledge'......
I have to fast forward most of the theists 'theologians',man o man...... Thanks again!! :)
He says “knosis”
It’s where we get Gnosticism
It is clear that the idea of Jesus being divine evolved over time. I wish Christians would take a look at the origins and history of Christianity from contemporary sources instead of getting everything from the New Testament.
Paul's letters are written a few years after Christ's resurrection. The gospels were based on eyewitness accounts. Please add substance to your dogmatic claim that Christianity is a much later invention? Name me some recently written academic books that you've read arguing for the gospels and Paul's letters to be earlier documents based on eye-witness accounts as has always been accepted by the Christian tradition?
@@lesliecunliffe4450 The gospels were not written by eyewitnesses. Mark, the earliest gospel was written in 60's AD in ancient Greek. Jesus' followers spoke Aramaic. The gospels were written bases on oral traditions about Jesus. There are many "gospels" not included in the cannon which was not put together into 330's . There were many different forms of early Christianity. Many of which had different views of Jesus and who he was.The Christianity today is the surviving view from dozens of different ones which were stamped out as heretical. The view today is that of Paul, but was not the only one.
@@lesliecunliffe4450 My sources by the way are from Dr. Bart Erhman who is considered one of the preeminent scholars of the New Testament.
@@lesliecunliffe4450 Also, there is no complete copy of the earliest gospel Mark until 200 AD. And of the many fragments and copies found all of them are different, some materially different. There is no one true copy of any of the gospels. They are all patch work from different copies.
@@chrismathis4162
Many thanks for your responses to my comment. I note that you didn’t reply to my challenge to name some authors that argue for different views to the ones you originally posted, which I now can see were appropriated from Ehrman who dates the four gospels as written as complete documents at the following times: Matthew 80-85 AD, Mark 65-70 AD, Luke 80-85 AD, John 95 AD. His dates are fairly typical amongst New Testament scholars but this does not preclude them being written earlier. Many New Testament scholars take the earlier view.
Jesus’ divinity: both the gospels and Paul’s letters testify to the belief in Jesus being divine. Some of Paul’s letters were written within 20 years of his death and reflect the consensus view of the early followers of Jesus, many of whom actually knew and accompanied him. The reason why there is no complete copy of Mark is due to the use of perishable material. However, the complete copies existed. Otherwise, Ehrman couldn't argue that Mark was written in 65-70 AD. Yes, there have always been alternative versions of Christianity, but this does not make all equally false. All academic disciplines show historical variety in understanding the said discipline, but does that make all of them false? Is Darwinism false because it is just one of many versions of evolution to have emerged over the last two thousand years? Clearly not. The role of eyewitnesses: I didn’t write that the gospels were necessarily written by eyewitnesses but based on eyewitness testimony, which is confirmed by how well they fit with research into the names recorded in the gospels as showing remarkable consistency with names in use in Palestine at that time. The writers of the gospels also get the geographical locations, flora and fauna, bodies of water, roads networks and direction of travel, and gardens correct, which contrasts with the later non-canonical ‘gospels’. On a broader point, your original post seems to infer that the Christians interviewed on the broadcast are very naïve or stupid. This is what you posted. “I wish Christians would take a look at the origins and history of Christianity from contemporary sources instead of getting everything from the New Testament.” In this regard, I make reference to Tom Wright who appeared on the programme. He has authored at least 46 books and is widely regarded as the most important living New Testament scholar. His first degree was in Ancient History. His wealth of knowledge of Second Temple Judaism, the times and lives of the early Christians and their relationship to the classical world, is second to none. Are you really serious when you write that this man doesn’t know about ‘contemporary sources’? Instead of making ill-judged and sweeping comments, I recommend you read a few more New Testament scholars to supplement the limited insights you’ve gleaned from Bart Ehrman. You could start with: WRIGHT, N.T. (2003) The Resurrection of the Son of God, London, SPCK (it’s only 800 pages long); BAUCKHAM, R. (2006) Jesus and the Eyewitnesses, Cambridge, Eerdmans (a mere 538 pages)
Thank you very much for producing this video - Brilliant job! Appreciate your objectivity and open mind
Are all the persons in the trinity Distinct ?
Can second person of trinity exist without the first person (the Father)? Or can Father exist without the second person?
Can God existence (and his nature) be contingent on any other thing?
Is there a clear concept laid down by Jesus (peace be upon him) regarding trinity?
The careful thoughtfulness about the answers to all those questions is very important !!
24:20 robert, you're not listening... you were just told that jesus never claimed to be god 3:13... he is a son of god (and so are you)... there are so many people out there who propose the best way to smile -- maybe you should actually look at the scripture sometime! thanks for all the great videos
@Floyd thanks floyd, by the way - where do we come from? of course we come from out father and mother.. (and they the same)! our father's and mothers are the cause of us all... and i believe that jehovah was the great father of all humanity -- literally!
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
@@invisiblechurch9621 the glory of the one and only Son from the Father i am sure jesus is ticked off because we worship him more than we do the father, the entire deal is about his father from the ancients right through till today... and of course he is god
@@DrTalentHunter Probably but the gospel of John clearly says he is god
Right, ladies and gentlemen, now that we've sorted out the phenomenon of a divine Jesus in a clear and unambiguous fashion, we can turn our attention to much more probable phenomena like the existence of the tooth fairy or the recently reported sighting of Santa's sleigh over Manhattan.
The fact is, "starting with the cosmos" is similar to "starting with Jesus", in that He became part of it and in it revealed God!
Smart
Yeah this is way easier to understand through eastern religions how Jesus became god then it makes sense
@@riru363 But is it truth?
@@andrebrown8969 yes is truth bullshit
@@josegaleano1530 What? Religion is not truth, just ideas humans make up.
Jesus is God is One and... One's Purpose is Love.
The excellent arguments presented in these interviews are based on the Bible, the belief that the Bible is the word of God. Once you remove God from the equation, that he inspired the authors of scripture, you are left with fallible human men laying the foundation of Christian belief.
Yeah because it was
"Why callest thou me good ? There is none good but one, that is, God" said Jesus.
We know God cannot tell lies, so if Jesus is God, then he told the truth !
(Matthew 19:17. Mark 10:18. Luke 18:19)
No Jew believed Jesus was God. None of the Gospels state in any way that Jesus is God. Paul never said Jesus is God. Almost 60 years, 3 generations back then, 1 person, the writer of John, trys to say Jesus is God. Odd, no one but that one writer many years on says Jesus is God. Even John only says it once and indirectly
Why wouldn't Jesus' four bothers also be god(s)?
“I and the Father are one” (John 10:30)
So, Jesus started his own religion by telling his followers that he was literally god and the only way to eternal life is to worship him as god.
Esoteric Christianity:
Gnosis: Being aware of being aware
God = Life
Jesus = Humane Humanity
Christ = at One with Life
Empty of ego (separateness) = Full of Life
Holy Spirit = Eternally actualizing Infinite potential
In his prologue, John refer to Jesus as God's word (Logos) in the creation of world / universe / cosmos; which is a different dynamic than Jesus expressing God through humanity for ordinary people daily life.
Mr. Lawrence is remarkable
Sarah is practicing sophistry
As does Christianity.
That these matters around Jesus cannot be easily comprehended or explained, might point to the truth of the claims. In that they do not sound like something a person would make up.
Of course it could be made up.
My favorite is Scientology; made up by sci fi writer and maybe even more absurd than other religions. Pretty much anything could be made up and then believed if sold properly
@@eddenz1356 That's my point. Scientology sounds like something a sci-fi writer would come up with. If assertions are truly transcendent, I could see where they wouldn't neatly fit into our familiar and coherent story telling structures.
The matters you refer to are easily explained. They're bullshit. It can easily be seen in the faces of Ms. Eleanor Stump and the rest of the debaters as they stutter around their flimsy justifications. Pure bullshit. It's not to say that the person Yeshua Ben Joseph (J.C. to you) was not an exceptional orator and intelligent way above the run-of-the-mill citizen of the time, but you're stretching it if you think He created the universe! I respect His memory enormously. He was no doubt the single most influential person in recorded history.
Yes, Jesus is my Lord and my God. Thank you Jesus for Marrying me and Coming into me with your Resurrected Holy Spirit, Fathering me into your son!
I was born into this religion, and I certainly have respect those who chose it as their faith, but it makes little to absolutely no sense to me. For the world of me, I can't seem to understand it. 💜
It makes no sense because its not true nor is this theological belief even taught within first century Christianity
If you like, you can read Rene Girard's book I See Satan Fall Like Lightning to gain some insight.
@@johnnytass2111 you should be recommending to read the Bible not someone's theological viewpoint
If you take this as an intellectual "exercise" it is fascinating. As a piece of actual knowledge, the concepts presented are completely made-up, ethereal, unknowing, non-scientific, esoteric, not only hard to understand - but also almost complete gibberish. It is a shame that us as humans have spent over two Millenia wracking our brains on these sorts of absolute silliness.
Mental gymnastics to be a man of god in these day’s. They’ve realized their gap god can no longer be sustained so they’ve retreated to basically just saying, “well yeah just believe in him or don’t because I’m not making any claims, mostly because you debunk every claim we ever said.” The holy version of pleading the 5th.
It's got nothing to do with mental gymnastics. It's about faith as the New Testament says. You believe whatever nonsense you want to believe, and leave us alone (in the kingdom of heaven) to believe what we believe.
Jesus, I Trust In You!
@Stefano Portoghesi There are no easy answers! ✨
@Stefano Portoghesi Need to avoid determination about things. Always is a must to ask questions and to deepen understanding and knowledge! ✨
ended with a statement of vanity. A stubborn hindrance of ours.
Such a nice video.
Hey Sir Lauren, regarding this question I would recommend 2, if not 3, Christian mystical writings as follows: "The Divine Names" and "Theologia Mystica" by a certain St Dionysus, and "The Cloud of Unknowing" of whom I've forgotten the author. With understanding of cataphatic and apophatic theology we may get closer to truth
The cloud of Unknowing I thinking is by St John of the cross
Also, Alan Watts has a lecture (Jesus and his religion) on this which may give light
Evelyn Underhill is the author of "The Cloud of Unknowing", but the content is of an unknown monk.
I know that many Christian believers are a lot more intelligent than me, but still: I just don't get how people can take those bronze/iron age myths so seriously as an explanation of the world or the human condition.
To quote the late Christopher Hitchens, " As long as people are afraid of death, there will always be religion" Or to put it another way, people will suspend all logic and reason for the promise of eternal life.
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has ab God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
The earliest Christians didn’t believe Jesus was God. At least not in the same manner Christendom does today. Christology as it were developed over time, and can even be seen in the NT writings. There was no doctrine of the “Trinity” in Jesus day. I think it’s important to make the distinction between what Christians today attribute to Christ versus what would have been considered true in the 1st century. As Ehrman likes to say “Christianity is a religion about Jesus, not Jesus’s religion.”
If the concept of incarnation and the Trinity is mind bending, it’s because it was crafted by human minds between the 1st and 4th century AD. The doctrine itself arose out of the need to combat other conflicting theologies that proto orthodox took exception with.
actuary 1776 How could there be a doctrine of the Trinity in “Jesus days” as you put it. ,,,,if Jesus didn’t die yet?...Jesus said “I will send another who will make truth-know.. etc.”
franklix Well “Jesus day” doesn’t mean “the same day Jesus was alive”. “Jesus day” could refer to the first generation of Christians who were alive when he was. There was no concept of “3 separate persons 1 God” in Judaism ever, nor did the concept exist in the first century. This is a concept that developed over time as followers of Jesus started creating a religion about him. Jesus was a Jew, prayed to Yahweh, and followed Jewish law. Bart Ehrman has wrote extensively on this.
Not exactly intuitive!
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has ab God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
@@mitchellc4 Shut the fuck up you arrogant prick.
I think there is a big difference from Identifying with god and just being god.
I want a discussion of the twin births of Dionysus who was snatched from the burning womb of Semele and sewn into the thigh of Zeus. It is Dionysus who promises eternal life.
You're very late to the party. The 19th century saw religious philosophers excavating all the ancient Greek and Mesopotamian myths and gods digging for parallels to Christ as a way of saying there's nothing new about Christianity. Today this line of argument has been long abandoned by academics because there are no parallels to Jesus of Christianity which hold up under scrutiny. These meritless comparisons are repeated today not by academics but by unsourced claims on the internet. Jesus of Nazareth was a historical figure geared into the history of ancient Palestine.
3:30-4:00ff. "Christian tradition doesn't say 'Jesus is God'; it says the second person of the Trinity [God] who is the Son [of God] and also God, became Jesus." And the logical difference is what again?🤔
One of my favorite topics to contemplate.
I like to watch Science videos too and wonder how long man will look God "directly in the eye" and say He isnt there.
At what point in man's quest to ignore and disprove God's existence, which is how I describe the atheist and most "scientists" endeavors ,will it reach a point to where it is enough, that the culmination of man's quest has reached that final curtain.
How far will we peer into the innermost realms of sub particles to the outermost reaches of the Universe till we see Someone staring back at us?
So can you provide empirical evidence for god then if it's so blanton?
@@miguelatkinson Blatant*
Evidence is for the Investigator.
Is smething becoming low or something becoming high is a question here. Is something specific possible. Maybe truth of some cosmic tension, presence of cosmic will, even of emerging of energy. What could influence our search. Direction, understanding, trying, being worth of...