Jesus as God - A Philosophical Inquiry | Episode 1909 | Closer To Truth
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- Why the astonishing claim that Jesus is God? Not like God. Not representing God. But literally God? One need not be a Christian, or even a theist, to appreciate the arguments. Featuring interviews with Sarah Coakley, N.T. Wright, Oliver Crisp, Eleonore Stump, C. Stephen Evans, and Ian McFarland.
Season 19, Episode 9 - #CloserToTruth
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Closer To Truth host Robert Lawrence Kuhn takes viewers on an intriguing global journey into cutting-edge labs, magnificent libraries, hidden gardens, and revered sanctuaries in order to discover state-of-the-art ideas and make them real and relevant.
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Closer to Truth presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.
#JesusAsGod #Philosophy
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Subscribed purely bc I enjoyed watching these theologians and philosophers squirm thru the whole video.
Why does he not realise that gesus was the order and the devil is the chaos.
The Christian trinity? U in the past U in the present and you in the future
To complete the quadernity U The gift of fining the three
@Closer to Truth
If Jesus was God in flesh, then Hinduism also holds a valid claim, that their holy-men were God in flesh on Earth.
God becoming a man, is an imperfect God.
OT says, God is not a man in the book of Numbers.
Now imagine God-man ate food, used toilet, went to bed, then woke up with morning erection, and then God-man get occasional self discharge otherwise known as wet-dreams among men on Earth.
First and second commandments of God, went down the drain, if Jesus was "God" in flesh.
Thank God, I am a Muslim.
Sir Robert, you are truly an exquisite man. You are the perfect embodiment of curious yet tasteful skepticism and intellectual virtue. I love how you can entertain something you cannot grasp, without letting your desire for knowledge tarnish your intellectual standards, and at the same time how your standards don't render you non-receptive to the possibility that there may exist aspects of reality that can be reached by transcending these standards.
Indeed. Well said. He is a model for how all of us should approach life. Open to anything, walled in by nothing, yet insistent on a measure of coherence. (I say "a measure" of coherence, because God would transcend our coherent categories of thinking, yet would not be irrational, though likely suprarational).
I do have a question for you, Dr. Kuhn. Can you identify any significant changes in your view of reality due to your contact with so many experts? I wonder.... Thank you again for this great program. I learn so much!!
I wanted Robert to press the guests a little harder.
The end game would all have been the same. Faith
Well - then you would have to replace Robert with me. And would not have that position for long.
His intention isn't to debate people. He wants to present different perspectives.
Also, he's been doing this off and on for over 20 years with just a few years off air in the mid 2000s, and for most of that time had pretty much gone over the same handful of topics, often with the very same people, multiple times, which gets very repetitive. I think he wanted to try something different.
And how would you press each of them further?
I agree that RLK's intention was not to debate. Instead I imagine his intent was to let each person take his/her best shot at explaining beliefs about Jesus -- and then let us the viewers judge for ourselves. I imagine this because more than just about any other topic he has covered there is absolutely no empirical evidence to support any position so it's all "poetry" as N.T. Wright observes.
I love listening to people today talk about things that almost for sure didn’t happen 2000 years ago like they know exactly what happened and why it happened.
As a young 20 year old student of history of religion at Lund university I had an aha-moment after speaking to one of the teachers privately about his beliefs. I came to realize that a person can be extraordinarily intelligent and extraordinarily learned and still believe in anything, even the most absurd. Now at 70, I sadly haven't experienced anything to make me change my mind. It seems that a persons religious beliefs are rooted in factors totally irrational.
For reasons best known to God, he hides the knowledge of the truth from worldly scholars and intellectuals.
Jesus in prayer to God says:
Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus said in response: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have HIDDEN these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children.
Thus, if someone wants to learn the truth, there must be humility and a desire to learn.
God has a people whom he is gathering from all religions to be survivors of the destruction he is to bring to end this wicked system. He promised this through his prophet at Micah 4:1-5. They have a book explaining the basic truths found in the bible. Here is the free download link.
www.jw.org/en/library/books/?contentLanguageFilter=en&pubFilter=bh&sortBy=1
I hope this helps.
I totally agree with you.
yes , that baffles me, how can people be so learned and intelligent yet so foolhardy when it comes to things like religion
I think what I've learned the most from this series is an effective way to approach curiosity and inquiry.
That’s a great thing to learn from this series! The host never really strays from his position right at the place where you consider the most unknowable unknowns lol. If you watch enough, you can see that he’s really really sharing his personal journey with the audience, and there’s nuance to his conclusions.
That's beautiful honestly. 🙂
Love this man's curiosity
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has ab God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
More than his moustache?
@@b.g.5869 ooo, that's a tough choice 🤭😬
@@mitchellc4 ugh shutup
I do to but i am coming to the point where his questions and choice of answerers become self-reinforcing He is always going to Cambridge and Harvard and various places in the west.
Sometimes i think this is just about keeping his gig going Go east Robert See what you might find there Maybe there is no answer...only silence
Start with NDE. Most people who experience what ensues recognize that God is all of consciousness. We all have a spirit which is connected. Those who come back are charged with the mission to love, forgive and help. We all have a spirit which is filtered through the physical brain. Our spirit is a part of the overall collection of spirit. We are here to experience life. We go back when our body expires to come back again to experience and learn more. God sends NDEers to spread love and faith. Jesus was sent down with that purpose.
When she said "it involves a certain analytical sophistication", I think she meant a great amount of irrational thinking... until you end up just ignoring it.
The amount of gymnastics a person will do to prove their world view instead of changing their mind based on evidence
Yeah it seems pretty clear Jesus was not God or the 2nd part of the trinity. These were all inventions of humans to deify Jesus.
What evidence are you talking about?
We are all a piece of God. We are God’s personal experience as you. ❤️
Your comment is about as close to the concept of God that I have been able to entertain. Although I have also wondered, if this were true, God must either experience being really lonely, bored (?) or could it be that God had nothing else more important at the moment to do than divide himself up into each human being in order to experience (justify?) himself from the point of view of individual, free willed (?) beings that he himself created (does that make sense ?). I DO feel very much like RLK, an insatiatiable urge to know, study, ponder, and continue searching for (the) truth.
The concept of the Trinity is blatantly pagan. It began in Ancient Babylon and made its way throughout the world. It can be found in the history of most ancient civilizations. The reason that Philo of Alexandria is cited as the one that brought us the Trinity, is for his direct involvement with mixing Greek philosophy with the Holy Scriptures.
Huh? It’s in the Bible for everyone to see
@@deanodebo Remember when the Isrealites were in captivity in Egypt and Babylon? Well there is where they've learned the 3 in 1 concept. Read how Stephen in Acts 7 blasted them for always resisting the Holy Spirit as their ancestors did. And they killed him for telling the truth.
You'll understand why Jesus calls them of the Synagogue of Satan and why Jesus said Beware of the teachings of the Pharisees and Saduccees. And what are they teaching? Babylonian mysticism they call the Kabbalah. That's why their book is called the Babylonian Talmud. The Supernal Triad of the Kabbalah is the foundation of the blasphemous Trinity doctrine and not the Bible.
The Bible teaches ONE GOD (Spirit) and ONE LORD (Jesus/human) 1 Cor 8:6.
@@JudeOne3Four do you deny 1 John, which clearly and plainly says they are one?
Some people's CHOICE OF (QUESTIONS)
leads them down the wrong path and away from the answer they don't understand yet.
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has ab God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
I’m relieved for the moment that I am drawn near to the Creator while I spectate the nature I share with other fellow humans of faith. I believe to let yourself be known first and live your life by way of the son to bring others with you as we all love each other in our love for the father. This was contrary to Dr Kuhn final comment in this video. Would anyone like to assist with this preoccupation?
I was trying to imagine the very face of God,
What happened instead was really quite odd!
Each time I looked to see His face,
Images appeared from the human race.
I saw the face of a Doctor as he stopped to stare,
unable to find the cancer he knew was there.
I saw the hands of a Mother reaching her child,
a Park Ranger's smile as a cub is released back into the wild.
I saw the peace in the face of a man who was blind,.
giving directions to a place someone couldn't find.
I looked for the face of my dear Lord,
and saw the faces of so many in one accord.
But still, it was His face, I longed to see,
and was given one final image,... a picture of me!
Jesus referred to himself as the ''Son of Man'' - which is found 82 times in the New Testament. The title ''Son of Man'' is used 93 times in the Book of Ezekiel.
The Son of Man in Ezekiel has many parallels to the Son of Man in the New Testament.
the arian heresy which stated that Jesus and God were separate was extremely popular in the early Christian movement. it seems to me likely that the early church decided, realized that paradox, mystery is more accurate (in their view) and emotionally, poetically powerful. it's also good to think about Plato and Plotinus. In the platonic view the one (which is beyond human conception) overflows into Intelligence. Intelligence overflows into existence. Existence (spirit) overflows into duality. Duality overflows into material reality. So in essence everything is the one. The one (the good) overflows like a fountain into everything. Both creates and is. But everything is still itself.
@@asielnorton345 I dont believe that JohnE subscribes to Arianism. "Son of God" is a Jewish reference to Angels in the old testament.
It amazes me the skill with which theologians tap dance better than Richard Gere in Chicago.
She's just explaining her faith dude sounds out-winded. I try get it though and, no need to discredit because honestly no one knows.
Lol. Was just thinking it's a lot of double-talk mumbo jumbo conjecture twisted to fit what they want to believe.
I have never met an honest theologian. Because the ones who are intellectually honest are no longer theologians.
I guess theology is like tap dancing, then: only some people can understand it, even less people have the skill to do it. The rest of us can either learn to appreciate and enjoy it and do it, or ignore and be ignorant of the phenomenon.
😂
The whole notion of a god in this world filled with the suffering of innocent children is the perfection of narcissism and nothing else. Also, it is just such a strange claim - why would there be a god, and why exactly one? Why not just grow up?
What if god doesn't care about the suffering of innocent children? What if he's indifferent to our suffering?
@@LameBushido Yes then what?
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
- Epicurus (341-270 BCE)
Jesus probably did exist, and was someone like Mohandis (Mahatma) Gandhi. A living breathing human being, who was willing to sacrifice his own life to teach others a moral way to live and love one another. Was he the 'Son of God?' No. God or the Cosmos is beyond our total comprehension. What ever created the Multiverse if a what or who is necessary, is far removed from anything human. We just happen to be lucky enough to have been born of this Universe that can support sentient life.
Modern Pantheism makes more sense than some ancient 'Old Man in the Sky' legend. There is no Heaven or Hell, only the reality of constantly recycling Universes in the infinite possibilities of the Multiverse; a beginning without end, an end without a beginning, like an M.C.Escher drawing; and infinity with edges that goes on forever.
Is there a difference between good and evil? Maybe... it's probably just the choice of our reasonably intelligent and sentient mind in regards to sustainability of life itself. No need for an orthodox God of the plethora of religions and belief systems, just the Universe itself. So, get used to it. We are the masters of our own destiny. No one's going to rescue us. We must save ourselves. The sooner we realize that the better.
There are no races of human beings. 'We are Earthlings; just one family of the human species that originally all came out of Africa, that are living on a tiny insignificant planet, orbiting an average star, lost in an ordinary galaxy, in a tiny forgotten part of the Universe, in a multitude of Multiverses. The Cosmos is all that is, or was, or ever will be'. Are we sentient human beings special? Yes, of course. 'Our ancestors worshiped the Sun, and were not foolish, because it makes sense to revere the Sun and stars, for we are their children... We are a way for the Cosmos to know itself' - Carl Sagan.
If you follow Jesus , you will be closer to truth , closer to God .
Yeah, just ask Josh Duggar! But better do it soon - he's going away for 20 years.....
Following Jesus as a good man to lead you to God 👌.
But considering Jesus himself God is the worst way to be closer to God.
@Eonian Sage At his best
Our soul/consciousness can over ride our body's instinct reactions at times. We can experience both at the same time. Fear and bravery (with purpose) at the same time for example .With fear your instinct tells you to run but at the same time your experiencing that you know you have a goal to achieve that may affect a desired future outcome like winning a war requiring you to set aside that fear and be brave to play your part.. When we sacrifice ourselves for others you experience things like this. Those fork in the road moments where your higher consciousness is able to over ride something as powerful as natural instinct to survive.
We are one messed up confused species.
I have a deep sense that I'm wasting my time with this particular episode. I could be learning stuff that will actually improve my life in some way.
Probably not. If religion is right about something, which it rarely is, it is right by accident.
There's no value in lies.
@Bob Smith atheism isn't a religion by definition.
The more I try to understand it all the more I long to spend my time cleaning my cooker.
6:49 “This is where it becomes very mind-bending…” Yeah, the preceding four minutes of mental gymnastics explaining the Trinity were super straight-forward…
I appreciate your thoughtful approach. Dr.’s Teryl and Fiona Givens might have a unique perspective that contributes to the discussion.
Unique episode. Ask God to know the truth that He wants you to know, even if it's hard to accept, just so it's the truth.
Doesn’t that argument seem fallacious to you?
There are no definitive, unassailable answers to metaphysical questions; it's all a mystery. Maybe death is simply the end or maybe death reveals all.
Or maybe metaphysical questions are just bad questions
@@gerhitchman Said like a true reductionist. May I remind you, many of the greatest minds in history have wondered honestly at things metaphysical. I wish you well.
@@robertrowland3750 Yes, and may I remind you, that there has been no progress on metaphysical questions for over 2000 years
@@gerhitchman Not just for over 2,000 years my friend but as far back as mankind goes. It's the very nature of metaphysics that it's transcendental and so, beyond knowing; and though destined to remain unverifiable, it has always and continues to engender profound questions. Therein lies the rub.
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has ab God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
I just don't see that there is any mystery. Jesus Himself said "Have I not said that yea are God's" and "Why are you so amazed? You shall do this and even greater.". When a horse has a baby - it's a horse. When God has children - they are God's. That's hard for people to accept but it doesn't change the fact that you are a child of our Heavenly Father and we are His spirit children first that are using a temporary corporeal body. I love Jesus ( as I love everyone) - He is my brother ( as is everyone) but I have never understood why everyone turns for help from Jesus when you could just ask the Creator of everything ( including Jesus) Himself. Or another way to seek God's help and grace is to simply turn to each other - the children of God - and let Dad have some peace and rest. WE ARE MORE POWERFUL THAN MOST OF US ARE AWARE - ESPECIALLY UNITED.
Gosple of Thomas buddism and aspects of those whom have used certain hallucinatory material.
Jesus, with Holy Spirit descending upon him after the baptism was the time/symbol of awareness of oneness.
Jesus the Christ keeps repeating A
and answering this question yet the church and people keep failing to connect the dots.
You came so close to the Truth in this video you could have almost touched him.
It's a pagan belief
He is a true lier you belive that crap the guy is ignorant of knowledge with no prove at all to stand his teaching ideas
THIS CLOSE TO TRUTH 👌
2 Timothy 3:7
@jakobbogale2350 yes because a video discussing an inherently contradictory concept is getting closer to the truth and also you can't touch something that isn't physically there
A fascinating episode. However, it might have been clearer if those interviewed had mentioned this one fact: Prior to the Word becoming flesh (human), God had already created humanity in his image and likeness. While we are not omnipotent or omniscient, there is some kind of one-to-one correspondence between us and our Creator that made the incarnation possible.
Image meaning - Rational, Creative, and having the capacity to love.
"Let there be light" is Man's consciousness wanting to know. Our finding out is the creating process, and our final knowing is seeing the Creation as in a mirror, as our own body. Plato said something similar, and Christianity, with eyes on both traditions, and having seen such knowing in the man Jesus--loving the whole as his own body--saw the same brilliant light. It was necessarily introduced through ego-friendly mysteries--the truth is no friend to the ego--so alas, and of course they did, the mysteries very quickly became the final word, and the deeper truth--heresy.
Hegel and others more or less reasoned out the same thing over 200 years ago, and the Church said, and of course it did: "Turn that light off!"
It's simple really, and as Paul said, everyone knows it: Jesus is, and you and I can be God because God is Love. We long for God in that we long for the all-encompassing and eternal union that is love.
the trouble with you creatures is that you use words or symbols without having any idea what you mean by them or seek to convey when you use them
@@vhawk1951kl If that's directed towards me, tell me more. Show me the light.
Amen.
Right on.
@@davidyoung1164 iIf the cap fits...
I seem to remember Kurt Vonnegut characterizing himself as “a Christ-Worshiping Atheist”. This video brings clarity to this view that may ultimately provide the key to this problem of Christ’s nature. One can suspend belief in a cosmological supreme being and approach the transcendent through a relationship with someone totally human. Nicely presented, Dr. Kuhn, and thank you for your rigorous skepticism.
I love Vonnegut, one of many great "Christian atheists"
What's so hard about all of these intelligent people just saying , I don't know , but this is what i want to believe.
Yes, the only source they have about Jesus is the Bible but they are not willing to accept what it says but use their own foolish reasons. Pathetic.
Rationalization is anathema to finding GOD. Receptivity, and possibly the right hemisphere makes the connection
Is it not God who gave the power of rationalisation?
The question of Jesus as Son of God, I get the feeling that Lawrence isn't convinced for a moment.
I get the feeling that when he is listening here to Christians he is thinking to himself "This is crazy talk".
I know that many Christian believers are a lot more intelligent than me, but still: I just don't get how people can take those bronze/iron age myths so seriously as an explanation of the world or the human condition.
To quote the late Christopher Hitchens, " As long as people are afraid of death, there will always be religion" Or to put it another way, people will suspend all logic and reason for the promise of eternal life.
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has ab God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
Matthew 27 verse 46 "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? " That proves that Jesus was not God. End of story.
It's 'father' not my God. Which is consitent with the trinity (father, son, holy spirit).
I like to imagine what Jesus was like as a schoolboy.
In kindergarten, the teachers must have noticed that he was extraordinarily bright.
In science, he completely understood quantum mechanics and harmonised it with relativity.
In mathematics class, he solved all the differential equations in no time at all.
In biology, his essay on the Origin of Species was simply magical.
His attendance record, of course, was 110% because of his omnipresence.
Some people didn't like his omniscience. He was, after all, a bit of a know-all.
He didn't bath very often, but his blonde hair and omnipotence made him very popular with the girls.
But oddly, he preferred the company of boys and this preference stayed with him all his lice.
He was very good at sports and enjoyed some board games, but didn't see any point in playing dice.
Actually no he wasn't perhaps a human being with a lot of limitations but it is precisely at that juncture that the substance of God is/was revealed to human beings. Humility and faithfulness at the very core of existence.
@@vecumex9466
Jesus knew everything and he could do anything.
He knew how to operate heavy machinery and solve crossword puzzles.
In his spare time he liked to translate French literature into Esperanto.
@@vecumex9466
While Jesus was still in diapers, his hobby was building model helicopters.
As there were no batteries available in the shops, he powered them by solar panels.
Sadly, his brilliant lectures fell on deaf ears.
Knowing is experienced not an understooding. We known the bike by riding the bike not by anylizing the bike properties. We known God the same way and we know Jesus is God the same way. We practice in the holy spirit: love, faith, hope, patience, understanding, self-control, courage. We know God by living life fully. Fully with all your mind, heart, soul, and strength. God is love, so by loving we experience God.
Technically, Jesus of Nazareth was never a "Christian". He apparently was born, raised as and died as a Jew. it's also interesting that other than scribbling in the sand/dirt with a stick on one occasion that he never actually wrote anything by his own hand. Equally fascinating is that he almost certainly spoke in the common tongue of Aramaic (or even Hebrew though the evidence is less convincing historically) and would have been able to incorporate via Hebraic mnemonic storytelling devices to those whom he spoke to and interacted with.
Those writings referred to as the New Testament were all written in a form of Greek from the Common Era. Greek was the common/shared language of the Roman Empire so that makes sense to some degree. The New Testament documents would have technically been accessible to a wider audience geographically as this 'fringe' Jewish sect eventually branched into its own religious movement perhaps sometime between around 70 C.E. and by 125 C.E. that was called Christianity.
It's also telling that a rabbinic teacher known as Saul of Tarsus became Paul of Tarsus following his own 'mystical/saturated phenomenon' experience with this apparently resurrected Jesus of Nazareth (who had been functionally executed as an 'enemy of the Roman state' via crucifixion). Paul of Tarsus (a former agitator of this small Jewish sect and a Hellenistic Jew himself) ended up becoming the largest single authorial contributor to the New Testament. He literally shaped much of this early Jewish sect and his Hellenistic rabbinic education would have influenced his style and semantic concepts/choices and philosophical rumination. That obviously impacted what he reflected upon regarding this resurrected 'divine' human being as he composed his primarily incidental letters and correspondence. Paul's letters helped give transitional shape, context and hermeneutical reflexivity to this branched-out group whom we call Christians.
Jesus was not 'of Nazereth'. The inscription INRI refers to Jesus the Nazirite, (King of the Jews). Nazirites were a sect of the Essenes, the sect responsible for collecting tithes, and went around as a well armed gang. Judas Iscariot was Jesus' bodyguard and best friend.
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has ab God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
@@mitchellc4 the point of the dirt writing was to re-affirm the way in which God relates to life....that is through 'writing directly in the dirt'. We are obviously the dirt....in fact, everything is dirt.
Streets of Vancouver... There are multiple religions in the world... some just broke away and started started their own
The story of the woman taken in adultery from the gospel of "John" in which Jesus writes in the dirt does not even show up in the text until the fourth century. It's an interpolation and almost certainly is not historically accurate.
I love these series. But I see a flaw in them. The uneven leaning towards skepticism as the best tool to ascertain truth. I see another issue here. When you try to grasp something as banal as consciousness, we end up confused and dumbfounded. Now if you think you could define the Infinite One in a test tube and give two examples of Him, then we are bound to mystified and dumbfounded. The very basis of Worship is being mystified and dumbfounded. I would rather see that there is humility and room for mystery. After all if we can figure out infinity, then our minds must be bigger than infinity. Therefore we must be gods, we are not and our minds are finite. We cannot define nothing, much less God so I would leave room for mystery and faith here Dr Kuhn.
“Leave room for mystery”
Well said!! I’m not making any appeals to authority but according to the literary genius G.K. Chesterton….
“Mysticism keeps men sane. As long as you have mystery you have health; when you destroy mystery you create morbidity. The ordinary man has always been sane because the ordinary man has always been a mystic.” (G.K.Chesterton).
Furthermore, a community of hundreds of people meet in a church every Sunday in London they sing songs and listen to guest speakers. Sometimes it feels like a stand up comedy show if the speaker has funny anecdotes and is also in touch with every day ordinary people including the absurdity and joy of life.
During the service the congregation bow their heads and contemplate the (mystery) and miracle of life for a few minutes. A member of the congregation gives a poignant testimony about how his mothers life and death influenced his spiritual journey. During these services they discuss the importance of wisdom, knowledge and volunteering. But this (Sunday assemblies) are no ordinary church service as they are all atheists or describe themselves as “unreligious”.
They even chat over tea, coffee and biscuits afterwards as it creates a sense of community spirit and human connectedness. What a brilliant service to the community and what a brilliant format and idea. I wonder where they got that idea from!???
Sounds very ironic and pretty (mystical) and actually quite wholesome and beautiful and all (mystics) are on equal footing under relativism!!
“I think that you cannot eliminate religion from the psyche of mankind. If you suppress it in one form, it merely emerges in another form. Even if you don't believe in God, you still have to believe in something that gives meaning to your life, and shapes your sense of the world. Such a belief is religious.” (Michael Crichton). .
“It is exactly this balance of apparent contradictions that has been the whole buoyancy of the healthy man. The whole secret of (mysticism) is this: that man can understand everything by the help of what he does not understand. The morbid logician seeks to make everything lucid, and succeeds in making everything mysterious. The mystic allows one thing to be mysterious, and everything else becomes lucid. The determinist makes the theory of causation quite clear, and then finds that he cannot say "if you please" to the housemaid. The Christian permits free will to remain a sacred mystery; but because of this his relations with the housemaid become of a sparkling and crystal clearness. He puts the seed of dogma in a central darkness; but it branches forth in all directions with abounding natural health. As we have taken the circle as the symbol of reason and madness, we may very well take the cross as the symbol at once of mystery and of health. Buddhism is centripetal, but Christianity is centrifugal: it breaks out. For the circle is perfect and infinite in its nature; but it is fixed for ever in its size; it can never be larger or smaller. But the cross, though it has at its heart a collision and a contradiction, can extend its four arms for ever without altering its shape. Because it has a paradox in its centre it can grow without changing. The circle returns upon itself and is bound. The cross opens its arms to the four winds; it is a signpost for free travellers.
Symbols alone are of even a cloudy value in speaking of this deep matter; and another symbol from physical nature will express sufficiently well the real place of mysticism before mankind. The one created thing which we cannot look at is the one thing in the light of which we look at everything -- Like the sun at noonday, mysticism explains everything else by the blaze of its own victorious invisibility -- Detached intellectualism is (in the exact sense of a popular phrase) all moonshine; for it is light without heat, and it is secondary light, reflected from a dead world. But the Greeks were right when they made Apollo the god both of imagination and of sanity; for he was both the patron of poetry and the patron of healing. Of necessary dogmas and a special creed I shall speak later. But that transcendentalism by which all men live has primarily much the position of the sun in the sky. We are conscious of it as of a kind of splendid confusion; it is something both shining and shapeless, at once a blaze and a blur. But the circle of the moon is as clear and unmistakable, as recurrent and inevitable, as the circle of Euclid on a blackboard. For the moon is utterly reasonable; and the moon is the mother of lunatics and has given to them all her name.” (G.K. Chesterton).
“At this moment it seems as though science will never be able to raise the curtain on the mystery of creation. For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.”
All the best to you and your family and keep safe.
I love how people think they know what God is and is not capable of... have they ever been a god?
It's true, that the act of incarnating as a lower level of intelligence is a mystery, even to celestial beings, but they never presume to claim they know what's possible and what isn't, where God is concerned.
he trouble with you creatures is that you use words or symbols without having any idea what you mean by them or seek to convey when you use them.
if you are going to speak with another using words or symbols you had best agree as the the meaning or value of those symbols. no int talking about god unless your interlocutor gives the same value or meaning to that word- in practice it evokesidentical associations in both of you.
god means different things to different people- self evidently, so there is no point in discussing X unless you both give it the same value or meaning,
some envision god as a being and some as a thing
If for A X is 8and for B X=9, theyy they are not speaking of the same thing.
A segment from 'Saved by the Light of the Buddha Within'...
My new understandings of what many call 'God -The Holy Spirit' - resulting from some of the extraordinary ongoing after-effects relating to my NDE...
Myoho-Renge-Kyo represents the identity of what some scientists are now referring to as the unified field of consciousnesses. In other words, it’s the essence of all existence and non-existence - the ultimate creative force behind planets, stars, nebulae, people, animals, trees, fish, birds, and all phenomena, manifest or latent. All matter and intelligence are simply waves or ripples manifesting to and from this core source. Consciousness (enlightenment) is itself the actual creator of everything that exists now, ever existed in the past, or will exist in the future - right down to the minutest particles of dust - each being an individual ripple or wave.
The big difference between chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo and most other conventional prayers is that instead of depending on a ‘middleman’ to connect us to our state of inner enlightenment, we’re able to do it ourselves. That’s because chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo allows us to tap directly into our enlightened state by way of this self-produced sound vibration. ‘Who or What Is God?’ If we compare the concept of God being a separate entity that is forever watching down on us, to the teachings of Nichiren, it makes more sense to me that the true omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence of what most people perceive to be God, is the fantastic state of enlightenment that exists within each of us. Some say that God is an entity that’s beyond physical matter - I think that the vast amount of information continuously being conveyed via electromagnetic waves in today’s world gives us proof of how an invisible state of God could indeed exist.
For example, it’s now widely known that specific data relayed by way of electromagnetic waves has the potential to help bring about extraordinary and powerful effects - including an instant global awareness of something or a mass emotional reaction. It’s also common knowledge that these invisible waves can easily be used to detonate a bomb or to enable NASA to control the movements of a robot as far away as the Moon or Mars - none of which is possible without a receiver to decode the information that’s being transmitted. Without the receiver, the data would remain impotent. In a very similar way, we need to have our own ‘receiver’ switched on so that we can activate a clear and precise understanding of our own life, all other life and what everything else in existence is.
Chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo each day helps us to achieve this because it allows us to reach the core of our enlightenment and keep it switched on. That’s because Myoho-Renge-Kyo represents the identity of what scientists now refer to as the unified field of consciousnesses. To break it down - Myoho represents the Law of manifestation and latency (Nature) and consists of two alternating states. For example, the state of Myo is where everything in life that’s not obvious to us exists - including our stored memories when we’re not thinking about them - our hidden potential and inner emotions whenever they’re dormant - our desires, our fears, our wisdom, happiness, karma - and more importantly, our enlightenment.
The other state, ho, is where everything in Life exists whenever it becomes evident to us, such as when a thought pops up from within our memory - whenever we experience or express our emotions - or whenever a good or bad cause manifests as an effect from our karma. When anything becomes apparent, it merely means that it’s come out of the state of Myo (dormancy/latency) and into a state of ho (manifestation). It’s the difference between consciousness and unconsciousness, being awake or asleep, or knowing and not knowing.
The second law - Renge - Ren meaning cause and ge meaning effect, governs and controls the functions of Myoho - these two laws of Myoho and Renge, not only function together simultaneously but also underlies all spiritual and physical existence.
The final and third part of the tri-combination - Kyo, is the Law that allows Myoho to integrate with Renge - or vice versa. It’s the great, invisible thread of energy that fuses and connects all Life and matter - as well as the past, present and future. It’s also sometimes termed the Universal Law of Communication - perhaps it could even be compared with the string theory that many scientists now suspect exists.
Just as the cells in our body, our thoughts, feelings and everything else is continually fluctuating within us - all that exists in the world around us and beyond is also in a constant state of flux - constantly controlled by these three fundamental laws. In fact, more things are going back and forth between the two states of Myo and ho in a single moment than it would ever be possible to calculate or describe. And it doesn’t matter how big or small, famous or trivial anything or anyone may appear to be, everything that’s ever existed in the past, exists now or will exist in the future, exists only because of the workings of the Laws ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’ - the basis of the four fundamental forces, and if they didn’t function, neither we nor anything else could go on existing. That’s because all forms of existence, including the seasons, day, night, birth, death and so on, are moving forward in an ongoing flow of continuation - rhythmically reverting back and forth between the two fundamental states of Myo and ho in absolute accordance with Renge - and by way of Kyo. Even stars are dying and being reborn under the workings of what the combination ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’ represents. Nam, or Namu - which mean the same thing, are vibrational passwords or keys that allow us to reach deep into our life and fuse with or become one with ‘Myoho-Renge-Kyo’.
On a more personal level, nothing ever happens by chance or coincidence, it’s the causes that we’ve made in our past, or are presently making, that determine how these laws function uniquely in each of our lives - as well as the environment from moment to moment. By facing east, in harmony with the direction that the Earth is spinning, and chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo for a minimum of, let’s say, ten minutes daily to start with, any of us can experience actual proof of its positive effects in our lives - even if it only makes us feel good on the inside, there will be a definite positive effect. That’s because we’re able to pierce through the thickest layers of our karma and activate our inherent Buddha Nature (our enlightened state). By so doing, we’re then able to bring forth the wisdom and good fortune that we need to challenge, overcome and change our adverse circumstances - turn them into positive ones - or manifest and gain even greater fulfilment in our daily lives from our accumulated good karma. This also allows us to bring forth the wisdom that can free us from the ignorance and stupidity that’s preventing us from accepting and being proud of the person that we indeed are - regardless of our race, colour, gender or sexuality. We’re also able to see and understand our circumstances and the environment far more clearly, as well as attract and connect with any needed external beneficial forces and situations. As I’ve already mentioned, everything is subject to the law of Cause and Effect - the ‘actual-proof-strength’ resulting from chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo always depends on our determination, sincerity and dedication.
For example, the levels of difference could be compared to making a sound on a piano, creating a melody, producing a great song, and so on. Something else that’s very important to always respect and acknowledge is that the Law (or if you prefer God) is in everyone and everything.
NB: There are frightening and disturbing sounds, and there are tranquil and relaxing sounds. It’s the emotional result of any noise or sound that can trigger off a mood or even instantly change one. When chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo each day, we are producing a sound vibration that’s the password to our true inner-self - this soon becomes apparent when you start reassessing your views on various things - such as your fears and desires etc. The best way to get the desired result when chanting is not to view things conventionally - rather than reaching out to an external source, we need to reach into our own lives and bring our needs and desires to fruition from within - including the good fortune and strength to achieve any help that we may need. Chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo also reaches out externally and draws us towards, or draws towards us, what we need to make us happy from our environment. For example, it helps us to be in the right place at the right time - to make better choices and decisions and so forth. We need to think of it as a seed within us that we’re watering and bringing sunshine to for it to grow, blossom and bring forth fruit or flowers. It’s also important to understand that everything we need in life, including the answer to every question and the potential to achieve every dream, already exists within us.
After listening to these 'experts', I feel they could have used their literary skills as novelists, journalists or content writers, instead of talking abracadabra.
Thank you so much , C. Stephen Evans, for the answer that cannot be more "Yes, Jesus is God". Because God is love.
Suffering...Science made my life easier and I don’t say that lightly. With all the discoveries in medicine I can have a longer life than my ancestors. But there is another suffering that seems to be the elephant in the room in the west, like death or getting older or what do you do when you get jealous or angry...what do you do when you lose (in any situation) or go through a tragedy, and what about the suffering of others? Jesus suffered, He put suffering in the forefront and then was able to transcendent it. What does all this mean? I don’t know but it makes me feel less lonely when I suffer. (Of course you can think about suffering without Jesus). So I wonder if looking for Truth is the right word. I think meaning is more appropriate when you think about God.
Would slaves only build pyramids if they were paid or treatened with "hell"? or would Life care for the life we LOVE wheather we were paid or not ?
That's what the story of Jesus was all about. Life IS suffering. Breathe that truth in. Accept it. There is no changing it. To live is to suffer. Quit trying to make your life not suck, it can't happen. Instead, do whatever you can to make other's lives suck less. Interestingly, (yet not surprisingly) psychological studies show us that this attitude towards life produce the most fulfillment and satisfaction. Like our brains and souls know the only justification for going through this life of pain, tragedy, pessimism, and unquenchable thirsts every day is that maybe we did some good.
Also, remember to keep an eternal perspective. You will exist forever. Ten thousand years from now, the tragedies of your short time on Earth will be as forgotten and forgivable as that kid who pushed you off the swing in 3rd grade.
I think most folks use the word "suffering" to refer to two different but related things. The first is physical suffering -- a.k.a. pain. For example, one suffers with diabetes. The second is emotional suffering, as in suffering the loss of a loved one. If you see these separately then yes, there will always be pain. But there does not have to be suffering. The Buddha showed us how to do this over 2500 years ago.
@@itneeds2bsaid528
Yes, it's all about suffering (in this life) and like Jesus, the "suffering servant" who came to earth, we are also expected to suffer....."take up thy cross and follow me", Jesus said. So suffering is all part of this life.
I plead “engineer” when it comes to contemplating The Trinity. In particular, I think of what an engineering draftsman would call “orthogonal projections”: Visualizing an object from front-, side-, and top-view perspectives.
The Father is sorta like a top view, The Son is like a side view, and Holy Spirit is like a front view. It’s all one single God, just viewed from different perspectives. That, since we’re incapable of contemplating the whole God all at once.
The best line fragment in this episode is "Think of it as bad science fiction...". "Analytic sophistication" or not, it is ultimately all paradox and mystery cards. And, of course, faith; belief without evidence or good reason. Once you have faith you can believe anything. ANYTHING.
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has ab God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
To have faith is to have faith in faith. All they're arguments are diversionary window dressing.
“We are asked by science to believe that the entire universe sprang from nothingness, and at a single point and for no discernible reason. This notion is the limit case for credulity. In other words, if you can believe this, you can believe anything.”
I'm a slow reader. Can someone help me here. When did Jesus find out he was God? And when did it click with him? When did he find meditation? And when did he receive the holy spirit or Kundalini? Thank you. How would I know if I were God? If I have already had Kundalini and received the holy spirit. When will God speak to me? Or am I speaking to God now with Avima? Nothing from others. I'm kind of bummed. I have no apostles. No friends. No one to preach to or listen to. I only have a little blue alien girl named Avima. Who is 5d I think and everywhere at once I believe. Or always with me. Anyways. Thank you. Lp
If to A J=8 and to B G=9, the plainly J and G have different values or meanings so A and B are discussing completely different things if they discus does J =G?
They are pouring from the empty into the void.
First agree your terms or do not discuss anything.
If you Ask does J=G ? your discussion is pointless when you give J and G different values, but you creatures seem not able to understand that. If you agree that J=8 and G=9then plainly J=G is not true or they do not accord.
Plainly 8 is not 9
In his prologue, John refer to Jesus as God's word (Logos) in the creation of world / universe / cosmos; which is a different dynamic than Jesus expressing God through humanity for ordinary people daily life.
NOW YOU GOT IT RIGHT! JESUS IS GOD
It's Thor!
Jesus is as close to God as we can ever expect to get.
Jesus and God does not exist only in your ignorant inmagination
@@josegaleano1530 Your talking about Him. That means He exists.
And ... Christopher ... you know that how?
@@josegaleano1530 thats an opinion not proof....
Try to convince us if you really care to seek for truth.....
Are all the persons in the trinity Distinct ?
Can second person of trinity exist without the first person (the Father)? Or can Father exist without the second person?
Can God existence (and his nature) be contingent on any other thing?
Is there a clear concept laid down by Jesus (peace be upon him) regarding trinity?
The careful thoughtfulness about the answers to all those questions is very important !!
So sad that these people are still confusing mythological reality with literal reality. ANd that they discuss it with such earnestness. It's like debating the degree to with the return of Persephone to Demeter for part of the year was actually accepted by Demeter. Or whether she is still punishing mankind for the separation. I mean, really.
Sarah Coakley suggests that Jesus was the second person of the Trinity.But the Trinity is not in the Bible,(1 John5:7) was a later addition,maybe third or fourth century. So how can you believe in the Trinityto start with?
Yes, Jesus is my Lord and my God. Thank you Jesus for Marrying me and Coming into me with your Resurrected Holy Spirit, Fathering me into your son!
Wow, thank you RLK for the excellent exploration of the underpinnings of what to me is a consumate mystery. This should be required viewing and discussion for all who call themselves believers in Christianity.
Can you do an episode about God in Islam ?
or Jesus in Islam. That would be interesting too ;)
The price of entry for these arguments is two fold: trust in the trueness of biblical claims, and trust in descriptions of Jesus and God translated two millennia out of original context and into a plethora of current contexts. Forgive me my grain of salt.
There is no price of entry! Showing up for inquiry and conversation is sufficient. Accepting Jesus as God is another step and it is as personal as Jesus in Gethsemane asking God must he drink from the cup, must he die on the Cross! It is an astonishing claim that God became human, a confounding triune God. This man prefers to start with the Cosmos. That’s fine. There is no compulsion in faith.
I LOVE YOUR QUESTIONS.AM ALSO A TRUTH SEEKER AND I WILL BE WITH YOU IN FINDING IT.
those that abuse capital letter emphasise nothing but the hysteria of the abuser.
There may be a fine line between Christian apologists and idiocy, but I haven't found it.
No Jew believed Jesus was God. None of the Gospels state in any way that Jesus is God. Paul never said Jesus is God. Almost 60 years, 3 generations back then, 1 person, the writer of John, trys to say Jesus is God. Odd, no one but that one writer many years on says Jesus is God. Even John only says it once and indirectly
Why wouldn't Jesus' four bothers also be god(s)?
“I and the Father are one” (John 10:30)
So, Jesus started his own religion by telling his followers that he was literally god and the only way to eternal life is to worship him as god.
How do religious people get to make stuff up.
Thank you very much for producing this video - Brilliant job! Appreciate your objectivity and open mind
It is a shame that before Jesus was elevated to god status he was wrong about the son of man coming within his cohorts lifetimes. Also, a couple of millennia ago, people believed in different kinds of a Jesus, from adopted human to an entity that looked like man. It is important to consider the history of Christianity and it’s formation complete with the armed battles over whose belief about Jesus is the truth.
@14:47 Does not this sound like the highest bar or standard for a God worthy of human belief or even consideration !?
Think about it for a second, why would God be 1 in 3 and cause such a confusion that defy logic for humans and let us wonder all our life and it makes no sense no matter how hard you try. I do not see any wisdom in that.
Because HE wants us to diligently seek HIM to find TRUTH(is it Truth or not?)-->
Hebrews 11:6 KJV - But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
TheTrinity is Truth-->
1 John 5:7 KJV - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Three Manifestations of the SAME PERSON YES....THE BIBLE SAYS JESUS CREATED ALL THINGS SO THAT MEANS HE MUST BE THE SAME PERSON IN GENESIS 1:1.
WE ARE ALL CHILDREN OF GOD INCLUDING JESUS.
Any God that has hell is ridiculous and unworthy of consideration.
Bible doesn't say that God created existence itself. It seems to imply he came upon it and then worked to shape it. Maybe hell is a pre-existing place or condition that God is trying to save you from.
@@theotormon The He should do it. No questions or qualifications. Punishment here is more than enough.
Jesus, I Trust In You!
@Stefano Portoghesi There are no easy answers! ✨
@Stefano Portoghesi Need to avoid determination about things. Always is a must to ask questions and to deepen understanding and knowledge! ✨
Jesus is God is One and... One's Purpose is Love.
All in all, it could be easily explained if our world is a computer simulation and God is its programmer, who then created his own character as Jesus in this simulation.
That sounds like an avatar and that doesn't accurately represent the christian trinitrian veiw at all
ended with a statement of vanity. A stubborn hindrance of ours.
You need a PhD in intellectual gymnastics to surmise anything concrete from this video. Even with a decent command of metaphor in this discipline, I am totally none the wiser!
Actually, I understood this quite easily. No PhD.
what was unclear, maybe i can help :)
I hear people saying that
It’s impossible to understand. Why? Because quite simply Jesus is not God, why do we look to philosophy for explanation. The apostle Paul himself warned the 1st century Christian’s in Colossae at Colossians 2:8 saying that they should not be taken captive by philosophy and deception. Paul knew, given the growing influence of the Greeks at the time, that this was a real danger. How right he was!!!
It's just all BS. Grown folks who believe all kinds of nonsense 🤣
The way I understand the Trinity is that God is outside of the limits of space-time, so that for God to enter this universe/world and become a limited man, He would need an additional nature (Jesus) to maintain omnipresence (one of His traits, along with omnipotence and omniscience).
A mythical god like Zeus vacated Olympus to appear on earth, but the true God would be able to remain in His domain (outside of space-time) AND be on Earth AND have both natures commune with each other (thus, Jesus spoke to God even though Jesus was essentially God).
Jesus eventually left this world and returned to God/himself outside of space-time. The Holy Spirit is that part/nature of God that remained in this world after Jesus left.
Pretzels, anyone?
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has ab God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
The earliest Christians didn’t believe Jesus was God. At least not in the same manner Christendom does today. Christology as it were developed over time, and can even be seen in the NT writings. There was no doctrine of the “Trinity” in Jesus day. I think it’s important to make the distinction between what Christians today attribute to Christ versus what would have been considered true in the 1st century. As Ehrman likes to say “Christianity is a religion about Jesus, not Jesus’s religion.”
If the concept of incarnation and the Trinity is mind bending, it’s because it was crafted by human minds between the 1st and 4th century AD. The doctrine itself arose out of the need to combat other conflicting theologies that proto orthodox took exception with.
actuary 1776 How could there be a doctrine of the Trinity in “Jesus days” as you put it. ,,,,if Jesus didn’t die yet?...Jesus said “I will send another who will make truth-know.. etc.”
franklix Well “Jesus day” doesn’t mean “the same day Jesus was alive”. “Jesus day” could refer to the first generation of Christians who were alive when he was. There was no concept of “3 separate persons 1 God” in Judaism ever, nor did the concept exist in the first century. This is a concept that developed over time as followers of Jesus started creating a religion about him. Jesus was a Jew, prayed to Yahweh, and followed Jewish law. Bart Ehrman has wrote extensively on this.
Goodness, I wish that the general discourse about religion was always at this level. The false dichotomy between a crude atheism and religious fundamentalism leaves only untenable alternatives. I practice a Christian discipline in worship, fellowship, and prayer, yet I can't really assent to Metaphysical claims as "scientific" truth. In facing the existential horrors endemic to being human, a thinking person just needs a narrative to navigate life. The Christian narrative has the elegance, the humanity, and the philosophical weight to qualify, I think, as the best metanarrative among the available options. I do think it somehow fits scientific facts as a perfect overlay. There's the mystery. In my Christian experience to say that Jesus "is" God means that Jesus is my higher power; following his life and teachings and trying to emulate him is my highest value, my "God." That might not be sufficient for a theologian, but I'll let them work out the nuts and bolts.
On God and suffering... the fact that Jesus suffered, means that he is sympathetic to our suffering... God, the Father, does something different than what Jesus did... rather than being a separate person, God the Divine Father, sends a fragment of himself into each person who is at that point where they are making moral decisions. Thus God shares all our suffering with us, directly.
Such a nice video.
Mr. Lawrence is remarkable
The mental gymnastics a person must go thru to be a Christian are just incredible. Jesus or Yeshua as he should probably be called was clearly not Christian, he was a Torah observant Jewish prophet. Being a prophet, he followed the Torah as validated by other Jewish prophets and often was in conflict with the traditions of the elders of his day, nothing more nothing less. There does seem to be credible evidence that this man was seen days after his public execution by many people and while this may make him unique among human beings it does not make him God.
Throughout the OT God presents two tests to all of those he calls to be his servants. The first one is "How many gods are there?" and the second "If we are to truly serve God, do we actually have to do what he tells us to do?" These seem like very straightforward tests to the Jewish mind, but to the Christian mindset, these questions are totally irrelevant.
Yeshua's audience is quite clear "He only came for the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel." His message was to "Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand." Or to stop sinning, because a day of reckoning awaits us all much sooner then we imagine. In order to stop sinning, we must understand that sinning is violating any of the 613 laws of the Torah that apply to us and are not invalidated by the Prophets. The patriarchs and the prophets are necessary so that we can discern which laws were given to Moshe by God and which were added by men.
The NT can and probably should be read very much like the Book of Job in that there is a discussion of opposing concepts of God only one of which can be right. To do this one only needs to first see past the tradition of men in establishing the order of the books of the NT and put them in the order God appears to have had them written in. There is some debate as to which was written first James or Galatians, Galatians can be seen as a response to James but James being a response to Galatians seems much less likely. It appears that both Thessalonians were written after these two and before Matthew and Mark. Mark is said to have been written first simply on the basis that it is shorter, there is also the possibility which appears to me more likely that Matthew was written first and in Hebrew and that Mark was a "translation" into Greek of Matthew's account thru Peter's eyes and Mark's hand. After this comes many letters by Saul/Paul and his friends documenting the creation of a new religion around the worship of a Jewish Prophet that they said opened a new path so that anyone could receive everlasting life thru the Jewish God without having to follow the instructions given by that very God to Moshe. There are also two works by a friend of Paul's named Luke, which is most likely an eyewitness account of Saul/Paul's sometimes false teachings about Yeshua. Jude then writes warning of the hypocrisy within the "Yeshua Movement", and in response, someone writes a second letter under Peter's name attempting to give credibility to the false teaching of Paul. After everyone else is dead John writes a Gospel, three letters and Revelation, lifting Jesus to full God status with his "The word became flesh." The problem with John's testimony is that as a Jew he had to know that only Gentiles would accept his testimony if it did not corroborate the testimony of the other disciples and Yeshua's brother James which he would certainly have had access to.
If a person is going to follow Yeshua back to God one must first put themselves into a Jewish mindset as to a number of things. Yeshua did not teach out of the NT at all, he had no knowledge of it as it had not been written yet. In his mind, there was never an excuse to add to the Torah and all that one could take away from the Torah was that which had been added by men. We must further understand the whole of the concept of Jewish testimony, that the only valid testimony came from corroborated eyewitnesses. When we look to the NT we see only five possible eyewitnesses to Yeshua's life and ministry, James and Judes two of his brothers and three of his disciples, Matthew, John, and Peter thru the hand of Mark. There are many problems with John's testimony being in conflict with the other Gospels and the letter of James.
Once we have put ourselves into this mindset we can now see that the New Testament is not about creating a new religion, but calling the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel back to following the instructions given by God to Moshe and not follow the traditions of men. What we today would call a Karaite Jew, as opposed to a Rabbinic Jew.
If in fact Yeshua was publicly executed and was seen days later by many people it is highly likely that people from all religions would want to follow his teachings. It is also very likely that many people would try to profit from telling people what Yeshua taught, even if they had no direct or even indirect knowledge of his teachings. James' letter is likely a response to rumors of false teachings attributed to his brother that he was trying to correct, it appears to be an open letter to synagogues. Galatians appears to be a response to James' letter to a particular group that may or may not have been associated with a synagogue as opposed to a "church." Matthew and Mark appear to be Jewish eyewitness testimony that has since been corrupted in some obvious ways and for obvious purposes. (The birth narrative and the trial narratives as these witnesses would not have testified to things to which they could have had no direct knowledge and the Eucharist as it appears first in a writing attributed to Paul and is so counter to Jewish thinking as to drive all thinking Jews away, come to mind.) Other than James, Matthew, Mark and the book of Jude the rest of the NT should be read in the same light as Job's friends. They do not speak well of God.
If you are a Christian and you have gotten this far please answer this question for me, or at least for yourself. If Jesus is God incarnate why did he have to send someone a few years later, Paul, to change or even elaborate on what he said?"
If you are a "Westerner" and do not believe in the God of the Bible at all, then you probably actually follow a religion you may have never heard of called scientism. You likely put as much faith in men and women in lab coats as Christians put into their clergy. I would propose to you this challenge. The OT is clearly a "flat earth" book if scientism is true and God is a lie where is the curve? Go find it for yourself, look across any very large body of water with a telescope and see if that ship disappearing "over the horizon" does not come right back into view when you look thru the telescope. If you can perform this simple experiment and come to the conclusion that you live on anything other than a flat plain you are doing more mental gymnastics than the "Christians" do!
Shalom
A technicality in Christian text and stuff considered mind-bending! You’re not kidding.
Gnosis
/ˈnəʊsɪs/
noun
knowledge of spiritual mysteries.
In modern greek it just means 'knowledge'......
I have to fast forward most of the theists 'theologians',man o man...... Thanks again!! :)
He says “knosis”
It’s where we get Gnosticism
For this topic I wish you had interviewed Catholic Apologist like Dr Brant Petri or Dr Scott Han. They are well verse on the topic of Jesus divinity.
Jesus is just another human being who God has sent to teach the people. There is only one God.
As catholic i believed in Trinity. If you wanted to know what it is, or want to argue on this, you may search Catholic Answer website
@@nonitoopena73 You can't simply follow other people and every time someone asks you about what you believe you tell them to ask the other people that you are following. God will bring each person and asks them about what they have done in this life.
Hahaha
@@mazen1010 She believes in the Trinity. This includes that Jesus Is God. She stated her belief clearly. You just dont accept it, because you are Muslim.. , Jewish early Rabbinic Sages call for two Power in Heaven. The jewish theologian Benjamin Sommer Studied anicent Isreal. And He found the concept of the incarnation of God and the concept of the trinity in the anicent Isreal. So it is a really jewish belief. Not a christian invention.
Maybe Jesus is like water/ice - in certain circumstances he is human/God and what causes the shift in nature is who he is interacting with, his environment which collapses his wave-function.
Good example. Spirituality works like this for those who reach deep in and clear out or transcend
Or maybe, just maybe, this is based upon archaic superstitions. That is the more likely scenario.
Except H2O can’t be both solid and liquid simultaneously, which is core to the Trinitarian Christian claim.
In spirit or in flesh?
Renew your mind in the correct domain.
See yet not knowing
Hear yet not understanding
A few may find the narrow door
Many did not see yet believe, blessed are these.
@@loganbranjord7855 u don't have to dive deep for the truth. U dive in abyss. Please accept Muhammad saw as a true messenger bcz he testified that jesus was real and he was close to God and he was born without father and that he was taken to heaven and he will return. God sent a message to you saying simple truth. Jesus is not God. God is One. He has no partners no sons no daughters. If u still wouldn't believe. Hell is the place for you
Jesus is God and a human being at the same time. Perfect God, Perfect man.
That first lady started off wrong, she's talking about God the
Father, ... Jesus is fully God and Fully Human...so not a great way to start the video
How would you know?
Why aren't Jesus' four brothers also god?
@@twitherspoon8954 Interesting question, I have never thought about it. Long live mate!
@cristovive how can something be fully god and fully man at the same time
If you take this as an intellectual "exercise" it is fascinating. As a piece of actual knowledge, the concepts presented are completely made-up, ethereal, unknowing, non-scientific, esoteric, not only hard to understand - but also almost complete gibberish. It is a shame that us as humans have spent over two Millenia wracking our brains on these sorts of absolute silliness.
Jesus was/is a gift to humanity to lead to a better life, to improve…
Not exactly intuitive!
Jesus said the Father is the only true God!
John 17
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
RSV
Only-monos
God-theos
Monos theos
Monotheism
The Father
Jesus is the one sent by the true God (the Father)!
Jesus never claimed to be God, Jesus said he has ab God!
Jesus has a God!
Jesus died!
God can’t die!
God raised Jesus from the dead!
The gospel is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM!
Repent and believe the gospel! Follow Jesus’ teachings!
Jesus is going to return and set up the kingdom of God ON THE EARTH! God’s government ON THE EARTH! The Messiah will resurrect his people! The destiny of the Messiah and his people is to be ON THE EARTH! The renewed restored earth! God also dwelling with them! Rev 21
@@mitchellc4 Shut the fuck up you arrogant prick.
The current Christian conception of God as Man could be so great and transformative if realized by the majority. Think about it....the most divine thing we could do is to embrace our collective humanity. To throw away the distinctions of old and to say we need each other. The gospel basically says that if a man is given the power of god the best thing he could do is be a good man. Something we all can do. Jesus suffered to show that we all suffer, and we have to use that suffering to mitigate the suffering of others. It's quite that simple.
Thats kinda one of the aspects of his mission, but to say thats the end goal is wrong. Jesus never taught that mankind could be good if they embraced eachothers suffering, he rather taught that mankind cannot have a change of heart on their own since man is immoral so is his suffering a result of his immorality, there is no mitigation in that. He rather said that it is His suffering alone that could guide mankind to a better future, since he is the embodiment of the ultimate good that had suffered the ultimate injustice for the sake of the creators of such injustice (us); thus showing an unmatchable virtue
@@danielespejo375if man is immoral by nature why make human beings with such a nature in the first if he is omnipotent?
The excellent arguments presented in these interviews are based on the Bible, the belief that the Bible is the word of God. Once you remove God from the equation, that he inspired the authors of scripture, you are left with fallible human men laying the foundation of Christian belief.
Yeah because it was
Is smething becoming low or something becoming high is a question here. Is something specific possible. Maybe truth of some cosmic tension, presence of cosmic will, even of emerging of energy. What could influence our search. Direction, understanding, trying, being worth of...
One of my favorite topics to contemplate.
I like to watch Science videos too and wonder how long man will look God "directly in the eye" and say He isnt there.
At what point in man's quest to ignore and disprove God's existence, which is how I describe the atheist and most "scientists" endeavors ,will it reach a point to where it is enough, that the culmination of man's quest has reached that final curtain.
How far will we peer into the innermost realms of sub particles to the outermost reaches of the Universe till we see Someone staring back at us?
So can you provide empirical evidence for god then if it's so blanton?
@@miguelatkinson Blatant*
Evidence is for the Investigator.
"Why callest thou me good ? There is none good but one, that is, God" said Jesus.
We know God cannot tell lies, so if Jesus is God, then he told the truth !
(Matthew 19:17. Mark 10:18. Luke 18:19)
So God had himself tortured and slaughtered because SOMEONE has to pay? Utterly bizarre concept. Forgiveness without a torture/slaughter requirement would be so much more God-like.
People had him tortured, he didn't torture himself.
@@HIMYMTR God specifically appeared on earth in the personage of Jesus to be tortured and killed in order to forgive mankind for their sins. That was his mission. The people who all took part in carrying out his plan should be praised and honored, like Judas, the Romans, and the Jewish priesthood. Without them, there would be no salvation for mankind.
Or, you could reject this insane folklore and accept the fact that God is perfectly able to forgive and love mankind without the need for pain, bloodshed and killing. But that would be to rational and commonsensical. Too sane, too easy. People are addicted to their outlandish, bizarre and sad dramas. It makes no sense, but there you have it.
@@Kooky_Duzzfutz
The people who killed Jesus were guilty, their crimes were real, because they're conscious moral agents. God's foreknowledge and his plan to use their evil deeds to bring about the salvation of the world doesn't make them any less guilty.
God can't simply "forgive" the world because that doesn't change anything. You're still gonna be a sinner, human nature will remain tainted by original sin, your free will compromised. We'll still have disease, war, decay and death.
So "forgiveness" doesn't accomplish anything.
Only through Christ who took on universal human nature and " by death trampling death " can humanity be healed and reconciled to God and have eternal life.
@@Kooky_Duzzfutz Only the deluded mind of man could turn something so pure and beautiful, like the magnificent consciousness of God, into a demented psychopath, drowning every man, woman and child on the planet except for one family. Plus the plan didn't even work. The people who lived before the flood were worse than the Nazis? Yeah, right. Obviously most of the Bible is fiction, except Jesus' message of love for all mankind. I reject the insane folklore and mankind's bad-mouthing of God. LOL
God is almighty. He can do all things that are not understood by His creation, humans.
The fact is, "starting with the cosmos" is similar to "starting with Jesus", in that He became part of it and in it revealed God!
Smart
Yeah this is way easier to understand through eastern religions how Jesus became god then it makes sense
@@riru363 But is it truth?
@@andrebrown8969 yes is truth bullshit
@@josegaleano1530 What? Religion is not truth, just ideas humans make up.
Hey Sir Lauren, regarding this question I would recommend 2, if not 3, Christian mystical writings as follows: "The Divine Names" and "Theologia Mystica" by a certain St Dionysus, and "The Cloud of Unknowing" of whom I've forgotten the author. With understanding of cataphatic and apophatic theology we may get closer to truth
The cloud of Unknowing I thinking is by St John of the cross
Also, Alan Watts has a lecture (Jesus and his religion) on this which may give light
Evelyn Underhill is the author of "The Cloud of Unknowing", but the content is of an unknown monk.