I'll be honest, on the one hand it's interesting that the story is that we only defeated several rogue agents in a simulation, but on the other hand I have a feeling that this "simulation" story is only because the Division development team can't/won't create new characters so they're doing their best to bring back dead characters, which is just seems lazy af
I get where you are coming from and do agree with you somewhat but I also think it's not necessarily lazy but just reality. This is a mature game and there really isn't much incentive to push large new story lines; better to keep them for D3. So, in the vein of working with what you have, it's reasonable to go this way. Like the way Marvel started with the multiverse idea so you can keep bringing back characters or changing stories that dead ended. Thematically it works although you need a fair amount of mental gymnastics to make it believable. I'm interested to see how Brooklyn fits in, whether it's a continuation or are we getting something new.
@@boomslangCA I honestly felt so disappointed with how Keener and Theo were "brought back". But now that they are building onto it in more detail, I'm starting to like it, but I hope they don't start making it so no one ever dies. Death of a character needs to feel real. If they bring everyone back, then when a main character dies, no one will care because they won't believe that they died. The devs need to balance bringing characters back and leaving some dead. I hope they know how to do that.
I'm really not a fan at all of the whole "it was all a lie" angle they seem to be using because at best its a little too far-fetched for the more grounded sci-fi of The Division...and at worst it just completely insults the intelligence of everyone in-game and disrespects the time and interest everyone spent on both games in reality. Despite all of that, I'm willing to forgive it if its just a way for Massive to right the lore ship now that they have full control again after WoNY, and we get back to good Division fun by the time the DLC and TD3 rolls around.
I wonder if the missile was real. On one hand we found the supplies for it in Dragov’s base, found coms about Theo programming it and of course shot it. But it was only us, Keener and his Machines in that fight and the missile is never mentioned afterwards. Also Chimera that Warhound we fought at the end of Keener’s recent manhunt, again it was only us Keener and Machines. How handy that only he was able to deactivate its shield and the way it focused on us was interesting. Moral of the story, the agent has Schizophrenia.
oh yeah, Viper is still alive huh? don't know how I didn't connect those dots from the comms, I already suspected it but somehow didn't put one and one together
Well if Viper/Bridgette Douglas is talking about Birdie being at the Castle with Manny then she's still alive. Because her manhunt was well before Birdie got rescued during the Recruiter manhunt. Plus it would make sense not to let someone who has access to SHD cause she was an agent that wasn't activated, access to Diamond as Black Tusk Team Leader and whichever system the Hunters use as she's an unactivated Hunter. You don't waste a resource like that. I would assume it doesn't affect too many big bosses because most of those are rival factions and Keener has no interest in keeping them alive. He proved that by killing Rikers to keep James Dragov in line. I think this was just to use for Keener, Theo and apparently Viper not the wider rogue network. Plus we knew Keener was in D.C. because we have comms from him in the main campaign.
Awesome to learn that viper is alive. She's an awesome character. Also, fun fact: Canonically, it's only been a week since the attack on the White House by the BTSU. Despite that attack having happened nearly 2 years ago irl.
I think Keener may be, could be the "asset" Natalya mentioned at the end of Reign of Fire Manhunt. Keener gave up too easily. We may even get Shaffer awake in the DLC.
imagine the rogue agents we got ambushed whenever you have finished securing a control point or main missions was just a simulation, you never really encounter rogue agents in the streets unless in darkzone but idk, maybe thats just me..but meeting rogue agents after having a heroic level control point was indeed a catastrophe
Gonna be honest, the only person I don’t think they should bring back is Faye and it’s unlikely for her to be alive one not only was it confirmed that after we retrieved her body she was cremated so I don’t see her coming back. I’ve seen way too many people theories that she’s still alive when it’s impossible anyone else I’d be OK with but not Faye
I just can't get behind this lore... I really have been trying to appreciate it and understand it, but I just can't. It seems lazy, repetitive, and predictable. 😔 I truly hope my interest peaks when the DLC drops.
Does this mean all the hunters weve killed could be the same one and they have to keep making masks because we are taking them, they're making it look like you killed them for info on how agents fight cause hunters are supposed to be way better than us
exactly, and those rogue agents that came after us after we finished completing something like securing control points and main missions feels very off, why would they wait until we finished something, why dont just third party.. im not complaining, heroic 4th alert control point plus 2 rogue agents are a nightmare , i dont even know how people do solo legendary missions
Given how much Viper has been involved in the comms over the last couple of seasons it makes sense to bring her back. But this whole thing about half the stuff we've done potentially being a simulation? Definitely way out there in terms of plot! How were we taking damage? Or getting killed? How does this even work? I thought initially that it was Theo talking about perfecting his decoys, but that's obviously not the case. And yet we do know that Dragov, Kajika, and Conley were actually killed because Viper and Keener discussed it. So obviously they didn't get this in entirely in place perhaps until after WONY and that's why they're in DC now. I guess we'll see. Certainly some plot twists!!
this is so mind boggling, if they wanted to make us believe it was simulation, how would they explain the items and gears that the agents left after we killed em were physically there, simulation cant manipulate physical entity
Okay I guess Im a little confused, are they saying that this mobile server could literally make you hear, feel, even taste a fake reality? Because that kind of technology is beyond world breaking.
Much better Viper get a resurrection than Lau... I think I'd have actually given up on the totality of The Division lore if Lau walked in the backdoor with roses and a grin.
I agree with this. It makes the most sense. Viper wasn’t revealed to be much of an important character until long after her supposed death. But this means they could potentially bring back other characters as well like Lau, Connelly, etc. It’s kinda lazy storytelling imo if they use it to basically rewrite the original storyline but seeing as they hadn’t planned on carrying this story out to this point in the first place, it may be one of few ways to continue it. I mean WONY was pretty much intended to be the end of the division 2 story. They definitely didn’t plan on this from the start and so far they’ve done a good job recreating the storyline. Hopefully it follows through to a good conclusion. Idk if I’ll want it to be the starting point for D3 or if D3 should be a completely new story arch in a new place with completely new characters.
They're brushing into the books as well with Rowan etc and the last one left off with a shd/rogue team up. Personally I'm hoping that the Keener/Theo part is to ease us into what could well be end game DLC in Brooklyn where we shd and rogue network beat the shit out of black tusk
I'm listening to the Compromised audiobook (also did the Recruited and Hearts on Fire) and the lore is soooo good. Then I come back to the game and things are... I mean.. The same way that game currently is... Isn't it too dumb for them to understand lots of inconsistencies on their game lore? Like why TF would they add their own (or even fake) SHD watches including their skills and important data on a projected boss character that can shoot and kill you? If they've got Anna active, why can't Theo do his magic and aim for Diamond that seem to be a much more advanced AI that is used by the hunters and doesn't depend on SHD servers? Why would Keener throw an Eclipse missile at his own "HQ" city? There are too many things that simply can't fit together anymore simply because they're trying to rewrite a good lore with a shty one. That's sad man...
It depends how it is played. If we were being mind-fucked the whole time and its some massive psy-op we are breaking out of but irl for our characters, I am here for it. But only so long as it does not remove a whole swath of what our agents have done, the real world impacts. Faking deaths or manipulating us into objectives or some meta AI thing, I am here for.
I think this is probably the WORST rhetcon in the lore so far. I was hesitant to accept Keener and Theo somehow "tricked" ISAC, but now that they're trying to set up this whole idea that anyone could come back which completely RUINS any and all tension that comes from the story, because now it's feeling less and less like there's any stakes or any real effect that you (or your character) has on the story. Oh? We revealed that the big bad guy from the first game was actually a good guy all along? Well he's not actually dead and faked it and now you work with him :). Oh? We made this random bounty target a character because they were a blank slate before? Well she didn't actually die and ignore that it would make zero sense because Keener and Theo would've had time to setup their deaths :). They can just pull anyone from the grave and that means the story is getting too convoluted now to try and explain why, like when you played with toys as a kid, "that character didn't actually die because they had a bulletproof forcefield". That also means there doesn't feel like there's any real mistakes anymore. Anything you did beforehand has no repercussions. If Viper was that important of a person, us removing her from the picture would've had massive repercussions for Keener's operation and it would've made for a good back and forth for Keener having a hard time. All they need to say now is "well, Faye didn't actually die, it was just in pretend" to bring her back too.
I really would like to keep Keener dead, permanently. I think something else might be happening in real life. Maybe some actors, let's say Kelso, unavailable, so they modified the script resurrecting characters they do have. I don't have any proof of what I'm saying but seems the more likely scenario, given that Kelso didn't spoke for a very long time, only conveniently appearing but in silence during the past seasons
If they bring a single person back from the dead, i'm officially dropping this game because that is just downright telling me that they don't even know what they're doing anymore.
It makes sense why would Keener simply walk into White House, because where else do you get a beautiful, beautiful SHD server than the B.O.O. itself. Alse, you know the case of watches Keener was carrying? I'm gonna bet those are tapped, and Keener is gonna conveniently hand us one to wear (and because our character is the most gullible person alive, were not gonna even question it).
@@Determinedkey9829 Manny clearly stated that after eliminating Lau, they took her body by helicopter and burned it. Manny is not an agent, he does not have a watch, so he could not have been visually fooled by the hack.
I'll be honest, on the one hand it's interesting that the story is that we only defeated several rogue agents in a simulation, but on the other hand I have a feeling that this "simulation" story is only because the Division development team can't/won't create new characters so they're doing their best to bring back dead characters, which is just seems lazy af
I get where you are coming from and do agree with you somewhat but I also think it's not necessarily lazy but just reality. This is a mature game and there really isn't much incentive to push large new story lines; better to keep them for D3. So, in the vein of working with what you have, it's reasonable to go this way. Like the way Marvel started with the multiverse idea so you can keep bringing back characters or changing stories that dead ended. Thematically it works although you need a fair amount of mental gymnastics to make it believable. I'm interested to see how Brooklyn fits in, whether it's a continuation or are we getting something new.
@@boomslangCA I honestly felt so disappointed with how Keener and Theo were "brought back". But now that they are building onto it in more detail, I'm starting to like it, but I hope they don't start making it so no one ever dies. Death of a character needs to feel real. If they bring everyone back, then when a main character dies, no one will care because they won't believe that they died. The devs need to balance bringing characters back and leaving some dead. I hope they know how to do that.
I'm really not a fan at all of the whole "it was all a lie" angle they seem to be using because at best its a little too far-fetched for the more grounded sci-fi of The Division...and at worst it just completely insults the intelligence of everyone in-game and disrespects the time and interest everyone spent on both games in reality.
Despite all of that, I'm willing to forgive it if its just a way for Massive to right the lore ship now that they have full control again after WoNY, and we get back to good Division fun by the time the DLC and TD3 rolls around.
I wonder if the missile was real. On one hand we found the supplies for it in Dragov’s base, found coms about Theo programming it and of course shot it. But it was only us, Keener and his Machines in that fight and the missile is never mentioned afterwards.
Also Chimera that Warhound we fought at the end of Keener’s recent manhunt, again it was only us Keener and Machines. How handy that only he was able to deactivate its shield and the way it focused on us was interesting.
Moral of the story, the agent has Schizophrenia.
Its cool that Viper wasnt relegated to just being a manhunt... But them introducing the dragon balls in the form of "simulations" is kinda lame
Was Viper, that anomaly in the video of Kelso talking with Roy and Rhods?!
oh yeah, Viper is still alive huh? don't know how I didn't connect those dots from the comms, I already suspected it but somehow didn't put one and one together
Well if Viper/Bridgette Douglas is talking about Birdie being at the Castle with Manny then she's still alive. Because her manhunt was well before Birdie got rescued during the Recruiter manhunt. Plus it would make sense not to let someone who has access to SHD cause she was an agent that wasn't activated, access to Diamond as Black Tusk Team Leader and whichever system the Hunters use as she's an unactivated Hunter. You don't waste a resource like that. I would assume it doesn't affect too many big bosses because most of those are rival factions and Keener has no interest in keeping them alive. He proved that by killing Rikers to keep James Dragov in line. I think this was just to use for Keener, Theo and apparently Viper not the wider rogue network. Plus we knew Keener was in D.C. because we have comms from him in the main campaign.
Awesome to learn that viper is alive. She's an awesome character.
Also, fun fact: Canonically, it's only been a week since the attack on the White House by the BTSU. Despite that attack having happened nearly 2 years ago irl.
1:41 I was one of those many people, good to feel vindicated in my original theory!
Yep me too. I think a lot of us felt it was the way it was. Would have preferred it wasn’t this way frankly.
I think Keener may be, could be the "asset" Natalya mentioned at the end of Reign of Fire Manhunt. Keener gave up too easily. We may even get Shaffer awake in the DLC.
imagine the rogue agents we got ambushed whenever you have finished securing a control point or main missions was just a simulation, you never really encounter rogue agents in the streets unless in darkzone but idk, maybe thats just me..but meeting rogue agents after having a heroic level control point was indeed a catastrophe
Gonna be honest, the only person I don’t think they should bring back is Faye and it’s unlikely for her to be alive one not only was it confirmed that after we retrieved her body she was cremated so I don’t see her coming back. I’ve seen way too many people theories that she’s still alive when it’s impossible anyone else I’d be OK with but not Faye
The devs have stated in a live stream that she is dead for sure.
I just can't get behind this lore... I really have been trying to appreciate it and understand it, but I just can't. It seems lazy, repetitive, and predictable. 😔 I truly hope my interest peaks when the DLC drops.
Does this mean all the hunters weve killed could be the same one and they have to keep making masks because we are taking them, they're making it look like you killed them for info on how agents fight cause hunters are supposed to be way better than us
exactly, and those rogue agents that came after us after we finished completing something like securing control points and main missions feels very off, why would they wait until we finished something, why dont just third party.. im not complaining, heroic 4th alert control point plus 2 rogue agents are a nightmare , i dont even know how people do solo legendary missions
Been saying Viper and Conley are still alive.
Conley can't be alive, there's a comm where Viper and Keener talk about her death, with Keener even mentioned she waas to far gone to be saved
Given how much Viper has been involved in the comms over the last couple of seasons it makes sense to bring her back. But this whole thing about half the stuff we've done potentially being a simulation? Definitely way out there in terms of plot! How were we taking damage? Or getting killed? How does this even work? I thought initially that it was Theo talking about perfecting his decoys, but that's obviously not the case. And yet we do know that Dragov, Kajika, and Conley were actually killed because Viper and Keener discussed it. So obviously they didn't get this in entirely in place perhaps until after WONY and that's why they're in DC now. I guess we'll see. Certainly some plot twists!!
I've been saying this for years has most of what we have done been a simulation and that Rogue Agents that we killed are not actually dead.
this is so mind boggling, if they wanted to make us believe it was simulation, how would they explain the items and gears that the agents left after we killed em were physically there, simulation cant manipulate physical entity
What the fuck is this? Does it mean that they have a hard-light hologram projector now? What next FTL space travel?
Na, the agent just has techno schizophrenia.
@@jack727dave5😂😂😂😂
Okay I guess Im a little confused, are they saying that this mobile server could literally make you hear, feel, even taste a fake reality? Because that kind of technology is beyond world breaking.
Real rogues are the devs at this point
So glad you do this series as i love being kept up with the lore but i really dont like going through the decent
I have no idea what's going on. I just started the original story line
roguegold has an awesome looong lore vid about all of TD2 story somewhere
Much better Viper get a resurrection than Lau... I think I'd have actually given up on the totality of The Division lore if Lau walked in the backdoor with roses and a grin.
I still miss Faye
I agree with this. It makes the most sense. Viper wasn’t revealed to be much of an important character until long after her supposed death. But this means they could potentially bring back other characters as well like Lau, Connelly, etc. It’s kinda lazy storytelling imo if they use it to basically rewrite the original storyline but seeing as they hadn’t planned on carrying this story out to this point in the first place, it may be one of few ways to continue it. I mean WONY was pretty much intended to be the end of the division 2 story. They definitely didn’t plan on this from the start and so far they’ve done a good job recreating the storyline. Hopefully it follows through to a good conclusion. Idk if I’ll want it to be the starting point for D3 or if D3 should be a completely new story arch in a new place with completely new characters.
They're brushing into the books as well with Rowan etc and the last one left off with a shd/rogue team up. Personally I'm hoping that the Keener/Theo part is to ease us into what could well be end game DLC in Brooklyn where we shd and rogue network beat the shit out of black tusk
What Outfit is that you wearing at the Start of the video? And can I buy that?
Thanks for doing the heavy lifting on gathering the lore up. Don't always have time or desire to run decent and get the coms.
DLC Brooklyn soon as possible with banger to keep the game alive !!!!
I'm listening to the Compromised audiobook (also did the Recruited and Hearts on Fire) and the lore is soooo good. Then I come back to the game and things are... I mean.. The same way that game currently is...
Isn't it too dumb for them to understand lots of inconsistencies on their game lore? Like why TF would they add their own (or even fake) SHD watches including their skills and important data on a projected boss character that can shoot and kill you? If they've got Anna active, why can't Theo do his magic and aim for Diamond that seem to be a much more advanced AI that is used by the hunters and doesn't depend on SHD servers? Why would Keener throw an Eclipse missile at his own "HQ" city? There are too many things that simply can't fit together anymore simply because they're trying to rewrite a good lore with a shty one. That's sad man...
Ok, off subject, and i apologize if not appropriate, but anyones game get randomly corrupted? Could i possibly lose everything?
wdym corrupted? like ur save files got corrupted or what? if ur game isnt saving, thats just ur ubisoft int connection
It depends how it is played. If we were being mind-fucked the whole time and its some massive psy-op we are breaking out of but irl for our characters, I am here for it. But only so long as it does not remove a whole swath of what our agents have done, the real world impacts. Faking deaths or manipulating us into objectives or some meta AI thing, I am here for.
Still hope they don’t fake out Faye Lau’s death though. Would take away from it more than Keener imo.
My main question is, who are the real Rogues? Is it us?
I think this is probably the WORST rhetcon in the lore so far. I was hesitant to accept Keener and Theo somehow "tricked" ISAC, but now that they're trying to set up this whole idea that anyone could come back which completely RUINS any and all tension that comes from the story, because now it's feeling less and less like there's any stakes or any real effect that you (or your character) has on the story.
Oh? We revealed that the big bad guy from the first game was actually a good guy all along? Well he's not actually dead and faked it and now you work with him :).
Oh? We made this random bounty target a character because they were a blank slate before? Well she didn't actually die and ignore that it would make zero sense because Keener and Theo would've had time to setup their deaths :).
They can just pull anyone from the grave and that means the story is getting too convoluted now to try and explain why, like when you played with toys as a kid, "that character didn't actually die because they had a bulletproof forcefield".
That also means there doesn't feel like there's any real mistakes anymore. Anything you did beforehand has no repercussions. If Viper was that important of a person, us removing her from the picture would've had massive repercussions for Keener's operation and it would've made for a good back and forth for Keener having a hard time. All they need to say now is "well, Faye didn't actually die, it was just in pretend" to bring her back too.
I really would like to keep Keener dead, permanently. I think something else might be happening in real life. Maybe some actors, let's say Kelso, unavailable, so they modified the script resurrecting characters they do have. I don't have any proof of what I'm saying but seems the more likely scenario, given that Kelso didn't spoke for a very long time, only conveniently appearing but in silence during the past seasons
If they bring a single person back from the dead, i'm officially dropping this game because that is just downright telling me that they don't even know what they're doing anymore.
I just deleted Division 2 because my clan is dead
The Clan never existed, it was a simulation.
Could the tech have been used in the division 1 maybe?
Probably not. Keener didn’t have the time to gather the equipment, expertise and putting all of that together.
It feels lazy writing tbh because now if we hate something they can say its a simulation.
It makes sense why would Keener simply walk into White House, because where else do you get a beautiful, beautiful SHD server than the B.O.O. itself. Alse, you know the case of watches Keener was carrying? I'm gonna bet those are tapped, and Keener is gonna conveniently hand us one to wear (and because our character is the most gullible person alive, were not gonna even question it).
Still say viper alive
Thumbs up if you’ve ever wondered whether Yannick and Daria are intimate with one another.
So ALL Rogues are Decoys? Has The Division 2's story jumped the Shark... 🤔
If it’s all a lie/fake, I give up. I’m over the division. This is bullshit!
Not usually a fan of dream scenarios but this would be a blessing; Division 2’s story was immature garbage.
Mishandling all of the narrative over the passed years leads them to just retcon all of it. Fucking. Insane.
0:57 Please don’t tell me Faye is alive….
that makes me think, did we actually get concrete proof she died?
Makes me think that Manny and Kelso were hiding that info
I think the devs confirmed her dead, but what about the POTUS?
@@Determinedkey9829
Manny clearly stated that after eliminating Lau, they took her body by helicopter and burned it. Manny is not an agent, he does not have a watch, so he could not have been visually fooled by the hack.
@@Determinedkey9829 Shes the only one i can think of that had their identifier over their body when approached.
The game is dead, match making is so bad now. Kudos for finding a video every day out of this trash.
First
First!