DF Retro Marathon - Water Rendering In Games - The H2O Special
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 12 июн 2024
- Our run of DF Retro Marathons - combining multi-part DF Retro episodes into single videos - continues, with John's water rendering special 'remastered' into 4K for improved RUclips video playback. In this episode, we're looking at the evolution of water rendering across the generations, singling out particularly special games and the various techniques used.
Subscribe for more Digital Foundry: bit.ly/DFSubscribe
Join the DF Patreon to support the team more directly and to get access to everything we do via pristine quality downloads - and to make epic videos like this possible: bit.ly/3jEGjvx
Want some DF-branded tee-shirts, mugs, hoodies and more? Check out our store: store.digitalfoundry.net
For commercial enquiries, please contact business@digitalfoundry.net 
Игры
It may not be the most impressive by today's standards but Wave Race water makes me the happiest. They encapsulated the spirit of a nice sunny day on the water.
My heart skipped a beat when I saw this, I thought it was Volume 3! We really need a vol. 3 to explore current gen water, like the amazing water systems in RDR2, Sea of Thieves, and Mario Odyssey just to name a few
Don't forget Horizon Forbidden West.
TOTALLY!
I would also recommend to check out water in Elex and Elex 2. I was always amazed how it looked for an AA game. The way the streams and rivers flow, and take all rocks under consideration is simply amazing
This was (and is) a simply excellent series and I’m glad it’s now in an even higher quality. I’d be fascinated to see John or DF do similar videos for other elements eg. smoke
rather a video about what they smoke while gaming.
Completely agree! Smoke, Grass, Skyboxes. I have wanted these videos from them ever since this dropped the first time
Fire!
John's fantastic in these videos
@@antonlouthander7748 Fire would be so awesome
I’m so glad you spent so much time on Mario Sunshine and Halo 3. Those games still have some of the best looking water I’ve seen in a game.
Mario sunshine has the visual authenticity and halo 3 has the interactive authenticity
The water in Mario Sunshine is still impressive today. We get reflection, refraction and proper physics while swimming etc.
Nintendo is the king of water and it all started with Wave Race 64!
The water in Wave Race 64 is still some of my favourite water effects in games.
It was... waves ahead of its time.
It created a wave through the gaming industry
What's even more impressive is that it's still actually fun to play. I still enjoy it even more than the sequel.
Blew me away when I saw it first.
@@bobkerr2755 It’s like an arcade game & it’s still so fun to play.
I remember being blown away by the water effects in Metal Gear Solid for PS1. I wish that had gotten a mention.
I was waiting for it to get a mention and was surprised when they moved onto the next generation of consoles. Strange omission given the impact of the series.
I absolutely love this compilation. Ever since the Ps1 days I have been obsessed with water rendering and Skyboxes in games.
GTA4 has great water and is kinda retro (it’s release date is closer the Waverace 64 than today)
This comment made me feel extremely old lol.
I'm so old
I still remember the GTA SA release day and me as child being blown away by it lmao. Then GTA IV came out and I legit didn't understand how they would ever get better than that. Time really does fly by huh
GTA IV also introduced the most impressive character physics engine ever created into a AAA game.
You can't just say things like that to people 💀🪦
I'm such a nerd for stuff like this. So glad DF still outputs such great DF Retro content.
It's a reupload.
@@Swisshost You're a reupload
This is one of the best things you guys have produced. More videos like this focusing on solutions for specific aspects of games please!
These were the videos that made me subscribe to DF way back, great to see it again in 4K
Man, Waverace 64 day was such a great day. It was realised in the U.K. on my birthday. Got it from game at 8am and went to Alton Towers (U.K. theme park) with fiends and then got Pizza Hut and went home and had a sleep over and we played Waverace for about 8 hours straight. Thanks Mum 🙏🏻
Thats a fantastic memory to have. N64 game nights were untouchable back in them days
I'd still love to see a deep-dive on Trespasser. There's a lot to talk about with that game: the early full-world physics system (used even for player locomotion), the inverse-kinematics used for dinosaur animation, the impressively in-depth foley system for audio, the unusual world-scale 3D coordinates shared between levels, the production issues and behind-the-scenes drama with the game's development, Stephen Spielberg's involvement, the pre-release promotion vs. what was actually shipped, the work the fan community has done in terms of recovering lost content, etc.. I hope it's still on your radar to do! 🤞
I can't count how many times I played demo version when it was out when I was a kid. That was scary experience!. Full version was a bit of letdown but I still look at it with nostalgia!
The LP of it by Research Indicates is one of the best of all time.
@@blalesnail3098 If I recall correctly, @ThreadbareInc also used to have an excellent Let's Play of it, but it seems like their videos of it no longer exist on their channel, unfortunately!
I never thought about it before, but in Metal Gear Solid on PS1, you start right next to water and can walk around in it full submerged. If you do, the camera drops down into the water, and I think it's the only time in the game that the camera actually looks up at Snake.
It's a good artistic choice. The camera submerges to make the player feel as if they had been submerged with Snake. Logistically, I imagine this angle also allowed them to achieve their underwater effect by simply applying a filter to the camera. It looks great. Weirdly green, but everything looks appropriately wavy. Snake just movies a tiny, little bit slower, but his physics seem mostly unaltered. I love little technical details like that, which not only help creators clear logistic hurdles but actually help tell the story or express a vibe in a more abstract way. "You didn't notice it, but your brain did."
Above the surface, the water slowly rises up and down in different intervals and has a nice (for its time) ripple effect. It's good, but that underwater camera shift is what this video has me thinking about, in particular.
Roller Coaster Tycoon 3 has some great water simulation for pools. Cities skyline, despite being a city building game, has water displacement simulation that actually influences how you mould the landscape.
Ah yes, the time I removed a whole load of coastal sand to build a port (on pause) and, after spending 45min terraforming, building, adding roads and rail connections, footpaths, beautification, changing traffic priorities and getting it ALL sorted...
then when I pressed play, the seawater displaced and my whole City would flood
Never overwrite savegames, people 😂😪
The water in 'Wave Race 64' is still quite impressive in my opinion. If someone in the hacking or modding community can manage to break the magician's code and bring the game up to full a 60FPS, that would be the dream man.
Are you taking about emulation or native hardware?
@@ottomaticallyawesome Both. But not for the native N64 hardware in particular. A proper stable 30FPS for that console would suffice.
I hope it'll be recompiled someday to allow a proper PC version. Similar recompilations of Mario 64 and Zelda gave us fantastic PC ports with smooth 60 fps (or even 120 in case of Zelda)
@@bananachild1936 fair.
@@Halcos That's what I was hoping. Though I think it's gonna be a very long while before we even get to see such a development. Not only will it be a super complex process, but 'Wave Race 64' itself is also super niche and not particularly the most "mainstream" Nintendo IP out there. So it'll take some die-hard fans of the game who conveniently also knows how coding works in order to get the decompiling job done.
This one is minor and fairly obscure, but I recall at the time thinking the water in Ico on PS2 looked quite a bit better than in most other games of the era. There were only small pools of it here and there in some sections, but it was pretty detailed for the time.
Bringing me back to the good ol' days of Miiverse with this one.
Great looking water for a gba game.
58:35 - Only 8 years since Hydrophobia? Feels much longer than that!
This video was first released in 2018 so you are right 😋
The gameplay created by the water effects in WAVERACE 64 and subsequently the Gamecube sequel is still unmatched on any game to date........in my opinion
Don't forget the Orca's on the last course🐳
Fun fact: with a simple code, Mario Sunshine runs at 60 FPS no problem on a GameCube.
The only issue you may encounter is with jumping into portals but it's only a slight issue where you have to wait a few seconds for it to appear.
These kind of videos is why I love DF> Please more of those.
I love telling younger people to go play waverace 64 to experience the water physics. To me it still feels as good as it did back in the day.
I Love John's videos and the way he dives deep into computer graphics.
Videos like these are my favorites from DF
Great series. DF Retro should also videos on the history of other FX. Reflections, fire, smoke, rain/snow/weather.
In Ratchet and Clank Going Commando PS2 there was a hidden developer museum. They had a demo of unused water tech you could run around in and it blew my mind as a kid.
I will never forget seeing the water in Far Cry PC, had to get SFF Geforce cards in the Dell business computers we had at the office to game on them. Worth every penny.
What a fantastic episode, thank you very much John
I stand by these two being the best episodes of DF. ❤
I was blown away to see Water Animation in Pitfall 2 on Atari 2600.
I enjoyed this video immensely. Nothing better during a lazy Sunday afternoon. Keep em coming!
I think BioShock DX10 and Tomb Raider Legend on the 360 were two of the stunning milestones in water rendering.
John, you're a madman and find new ways for me to appreciate things even more through your crazy levels of knowledge and research. Keep it up!
I think I should have mentioned Sonic Adventure 1 and 2, their water was really beautiful at the time of release, despite simple textures.
Wave Race 64 was that true "Awe-inspiring" moment. As for current water effects, IMHO, Sea of Thieves has set the bar so ridiculously high that I don't really see it being topped for a very long time.
The intro to Sports Jam on Dreamcast had the best water, golf ball in the lake. "PLUNK!"
My favourite is the water in Tomb Raider 1. There's just something about the distortion, the way Lara moves in it, and the sound effects that combine to make it feel like water!
Sea of Thieves is also excellent... Not only is it a beautiful and convincing water effect, but I've never jumped into video game water before and felt so completely out of my depth and vulnerable to what might be lurking beneath.
This man has the taste, the talent, and the trust of gamers everywhere. Vice Project Doom referenced straightaway? Hell yeah! Chef's kiss.
What I love about Wave Race 64 is how you can really feel the water physics and it's the core of the gameplay. You really need to work with the water to stay low and go fast or go against it to jump or dive.
This is the best video that has ever been made, so much that I had to pause it to type this comment because I don't want to miss a second of it.
This is so relaxing and so pure. Thank you guys so much
I really loved the look of water in the ps2/xbox/gamecube era. It didn't look real but it looked surreal.
THIS WAS TOP CLASS! And this is the exact type of contest I like, Big ups!!!
My fav DF video ever, please do more like this !
Unlikely this is old video
@@Name-tn3md I’m aware, what’s why I said it’s my fav one ever and I’d like to see more like it
Wow! This one took a lot of work and time to put together. I appreciate the effort. Great job!
It’s insane how ahead of its time MGS2. Still some of the best looking rain ever, 24 years later. Will always love that game.
Great work as usual, John! I've always loved the different ways game devs portray water. Effects work in general is where a lot of the true artistry and wizardry are.
This was FANTASTIC John. Thank you.
I would love to see a continuation of sorts for this, like sand and fire rendering/effects on gaming
Finally! Water, the king of fluid gameplay!
crash bandicoot 3 had some mind blowing water back in the day; surprised it wasnt mentioned; it's always one of the first games that come to mind for me when thinking about water in games...
I think it's because wave racer pre dates crash 3.
The video I never knew I needed. Great stuff.
Amazing video. Love this. Love water. Thanks for making this John
More like this please. Love the detailed history of a specific tech in games
Donkey Kong Country (SNES), Wave Race (N64) and Far Cry Instincts Predator (Xbox 360) are three of my most memorable games in regards to water and water effects. I've been blown away by all of them through the years.
Thanks for a fantastic video series! I'm looking forward to part 2.
The PlayStation 1 game Ace Combat 3: Electrosphere showcases stunning water effects.
That ripple effect on the surfaces that you showed on fear, I remember that technique being used in serious Sam the first encounter three years prior. That game had a really cool engine for its time imo.
Amazing videos. A part 3 would be awesome, plenty of new games and techniques to admire and discuss.
Ico windmill really impressed me back in day, played magazine demo religiously before release, Baldusr's gate dark alliance was also amazing for time
Still my favourite episodes of DF RETRO.
Wave race and f zero .. my two most wanted franchise to come back with new games
I wish Hydrophobia was less janky and better known. Those water mechanics and rendering were amazing back in the day.
I'd never heard of it before and it looks insane!
@@troy8420 ikr? The end of the video actually mentions it for it's depth of simulation.
Yeah, I bought it around release but never beat it, so went back to it last year (runs on Series X/S). Hasn't aged gracefully to say the least but the water still looks fabulous.
I think the first design for it didn't get much acceptance, it was initially designed around giving you weapons that are more for environmental manipulation than direct combat, expecting you to use all that flooding and stuff. Players complained and so it was changed to give players more effective direct combat weapons. That leaves it kinda confused as a game.
This was most awesome. Enjoyed it thoroughly. Incredible work.
I didn't expect a documentary series about my favorite topic of graphics. Love it!
I absolutely love these tech deep dive (pun intended) videos. I adore the tricks used to make games when power was really limited and the tech behind is just so intriguing. Never stop doing these!
Love you, DF!!!
Still my favorite DF thing ever. Peak cozy longform content.
This episode was one of the best, really amazing!
I'll never forget seeing water in Bioshock and being stunned by how real it looked. Water in video games looked amazingly beautiful and extremely close to realism in video games during the 2000's, especially in Super Mario Sunshine most prevalently/famously, but Bioshock took that to a whole new level unseen before then.
I remember being blown away by the water in Super Mario Sunshine as a kid. I didn't think it could get better!
I really love this format John! Nobody can do this type of video except for DF!
YESS I've been waiting for this sort of video for so long! :)
Me and my buddy back in the day would talk about how the water in Halo looked so good.
I love this video! I really appreciate the effort that went into this!
this is such an on brand DF video. 10/10
I love these kind of videos. Great job John!
Really interesting and complicated aspect of CG, thanks for bringing it up.
Can't believe John didn't mention Crash Bandicoot 3 water here. While the underwater levels convince me artistically, the multiple jetski levels are technically impressive for a ps1 with a wobbly surface and objects reacting accordignly (to me the later levels feel even more wavy than the first) all while holding a decent framerate.
He hates Crash, and loves Sonic what a dumb taste .😂
Kameo's water was great too.
Another excellent DF Retro ep which is missing only todays most advanced water simulation in games to compare what amazing road graphics went to get here. Still great job, awesome show thx John and DF team!👍
This was a great "deep dive" into water effects, thank you for putting it together. Wave Race 64 blew my mind when it released. In my opinion the best in game water today is hands down Sea of Thieves, both visually and in the simulation.
BF4 water maps are still 11 years later so impressive. It reacts to objects and vehicles and is MP, so all the players see the same waves.
Water physics and effects in graphics are always so impressive.
You have no idea how long Ive been wait for someone to make a video on this type of thing Ive always felt nostalgic towards the water in Nintendo games specifically.
Great video, thanks. Nowadays not only are we wanting realistic water but simulating tides too and how the water interacts with objects.
Nice documentary. I remember during the Bisohock Part how beautiful the art and especially the soundtrack of the game is. Fantastic
Mario Sunshine is super impressive.
Sonic & All Stars 2 water is solid.
Crysis on PC is just great.
Legendary video, the first two parts made me sub instantly back then
My favorite DF Retro… so beautiful.
Assassin's Creed Origins, Odyssey and Valhalla have amazing water rendering. Couple with the sound and color pallet the design is amazing.
YES! I've always had a fascination with fluid simulation in games. Hydrophobia & From Dust are a few good examples of this if i remember right. And shooting out the fish tank in MGS2 never gets old!
Thank you for this. Seriously...thank you!
I watched the original upload about a week ago. Am I going to watch it again here because DF Retro is the best? Yes.
ps2-era jello water is one of my favourite graphical effects that brings so much nostalgia
This was one of the first DF videos i had watched that got me into DF. It actually was a big moment for me because it influenced this cool game idea i had to be water based.
I'll happily re watch this 😊
Nestle approves this water video! Great job :) I love your retro docs ❤
The water effects in the swimming pool in Konami's version of Track & Field on the PS1 were pretty beautiful at the time.