I've been obsessed with Super Mario Sunshine since it came out. Ever since I started learning how to make games I've been picking it apart, learning it's secrets, and recreating all of it's little tricks in other game engines. I had grown up with the SNES and skipped the N64, so when the Gamecube came out and had this game featuring all of these cool physics puzzles and environments centered around water it grabbed ahold of me and never let me go. The game's one of the biggest reasons I wanted to make videogames.
I’m not an engineer or someone who really understands exactly how this is all done but I find these kinds of videos insanely interesting and this video especially is well put together for someone like me to understand. Great video.
So glad you mentioned *Hydrophobia.* One of the examples of a great tech advancement in a not so great video game. It was almost a good "waterbending" game, but the game ended before that potential was ever realized.
they were supposed to make a trilogy out of it, my guess is they when't under they were a small indie team. As for the game itself ugh... such a waste, I feel like it could of been a really good unique game had it gotten the proper polish etc.
The programmers of Hydrophobia did a great job making the impressive engine, but they didn't know how to use it to make a game, so the game is basically a tech demo with a ton of potential which was never fully utilized. It is most obvious in the end when you finally get the water powers and then the game ends 10 minutes later. There is so much they could do with it, shame the studio shut down :(
The Dynamic Rain effect in STALKER: Clear Sky deserved a mention too. :( it is the first open world game which allows for such things to happen on all its objects, dynamically and without spazzing out making people under cover become wet.
OMG Hydrophobia the best fluid simulation for water with it's own engine design for that purpose in gaming history and because the game didn't sell well the company got bankrupt and they sold the assets....we lost this amazing engine.. 8 years after like John said in the video we don't have nothing like this. I guess the problem with Hydrophobia was the engineering cost of the water engine, probably took so much time and resources from a studio that wasn't really big and they didn't have enough resources or money to make a great game on top of the water engine. The game is still enjoyable and it's worth to play it just to see the water. The water is a joy in this game.
The quality of the reflection alone was incredibly impressive for the time, not to mention the water physics simulation. Hardly any games from 2004 hold up as well as HL2 in overall graphics besides like Doom 3 and Chronicles of Riddick.
Agreed. There's something about half life. Very few games from back then are still playable. And not only that, still looks better than most stuff today.
You guys have made me appreciate gaming so much more. Before discovering this channel I took video game graphics for granted and start to get bored with games. You guys helped reignite my love for video games. Thank you so much
The talk about Water never stopped. Back in 2001 Severance Blade of Darkness did not only schock people with its mind blowing shadows and awesome use of light sources. The water, while not having shader deformation. It had awesome reflections and looked just amazing. Then came Morrowind with shader water. Later on, you stood at the deck of an aircraft carrier in Crysis 1. And the water just baffled your mind...
I'm quite the opposite. There's a lot to talk about water in videogames, but no one talks about it. I've never heard anyone talking about the approach Nintendo made with the reflections in Zelda BotW. The main two methods for real reflections are the expensive planar reflections and the faster screen space reflections. BotW uses something different and rather unique, but they made a tiny little mistake That game creates like a faux planar reflection. You can't distinguish the objects or their shapes, but you can see approximations of them on the surface, although quite blurry. The reflections don't always match the color of the model, tho, I guess due to lighting. Their little mistake is that the reflections are calculated from Link's POV, but applied to a third-person perspective. Usually the blurriness of the reflections hide that misalignment, but I noticed it in a particular scene with a pool of water and a tree. I moved the camera and the reflection of the tree was misaligned if Link was not in-between the camera and the tree. My best guess is that it uses planar reflections with an overly simplified model with blurriness hiding the lack of detail, but I'm no expert. I still want an explanation about that specific game
David Navarrete Hmm, that's right, the reflections don't disappear when you look down, do they? The reflections also seem to update very slowly, like 1fps or lower on Wii U. So maybe it uses planar reflections, but does so in as lightweight a way as possible?
Far Cry's renderer is actually kind of buggy on modern systems, for some reason it won't render any terrain in the reflections even though it's supposed to. It looked a lot better originally, and it seems that there are fanmade fixes out there that correct this.
@@pegasusdrive12 compatibility mode doesn't always help, in fact usually it never works, at least in my experience. Then again, I never played the original Far Cry so I don't know how effective compatibility mode is
I really wish From Dust was gone over here, it's particle effects and physics for water and sand always really impressed me. I still think it has some of the best fluid and particle physics of any video game, especially considering how it's actually what the gameplay is built around and isn't just a technical gimmick.
underrated game! I wish it was made by an indie studio. I think that way the game would have lived on, with a sandbox mode or player made campains/scenarios. I'm probably reinstalling this again though.
I rarely don't watch the entire video at DF. You all actually make gaming more interesting and fun. Great work and your passion certainly comes through!
A part 3 on "modern titles" from Crysis up until Uncharted 4/BF4 paracel storm/Batman Arkham Knight and more, would be most appreciated. What has changed since Half Life 2, etc.?
I remember spending about 20 minutes just examining the stream in Halo where you crash land in the escape pod. I was amazed at how realistic the stream looked.
Uncharted 3 is probably my favorite example of water in a game. Just amazing!! Would love to see a studio push newer graphics cards with top of the line water simulation.
not if you want to run games at 4k ,60 fps,16*AA and texture filtering... i have a shitty pc and i have to use native resolution with AA and TF turned off, and some games struggle, not to mention playability issues with some games... a switch port would be useful
John, make more! Id love to see an Xbox 360 Era and then an Xbox One Era of this topic. Especially because theres amazing water to be analyzed in games such as Watch Dogs 2. The water on that and on AC: Origins is simply incredible
It's easy to see how a lot of those reflections are made basically by flipping the screen upside-down, but what is Super Mario Sunshine doing? Its camera can tilt up or down, and the reflections will accurately show objects and terrain that are completely off-screen, something that even modern games rarely do! Is there a separate camera rendering to another framebuffer? (Essentially the GCN's way of doing a planar reflection?)
Blue Storm was an absolute triumph. The atmosphere,the ambient music before the race, the water physics when the waves rise and you get caught in their speed: the ENTIRE game was filled to the brim with content, and it was literally like you were bobbing up and down on a lake in the summer! The canal stage was astonishing
A bit disappointed that the Cryostasis was not mentioned. It's the first game to use real deal fluid physics. A feature most people disabled in late 00s, as it was just too taxing on the systems of the time.
Try Amazon, I can find a few disc copy for ~8€ new And no, you can't activate it on Steam, and you'll have to find the patches. but if you really want that game you can find it.
Like i said in part 1: Great idea for a video .. I would LOVE to see an expansion of this idea and see you guys make a video of the evolution of weather effects or maybe fire effects in gaming next? Just some food for thoughts.
Brilliant couple of videos. Was waiting for the second part and I'm not disappointed. Extremely interesting stuff, I hope we see more videos like this in the future!
Another fascinating look at how tech has evolved It really is a pity no one has pushed dynamic water physics in a way Hydrophobia attempted to. I’d love a Poseidon Adventure style game where a shifting capsized wreck has to be negotiated to escape.
Daikatana was impressive for the time but Sunshine has aged way better, it has awesome level design and art direction and the levels without FLUDD were the basic inspiration for the Mario Galaxy design layout.
Noah P Wa simpressive lmfao what drugs are you on typical Nintendo fanboys says they are revultaobary when Oot and his game did almost nothing for its time
Probably people already mentioned, but reflection glitch at Far Cry happens only on Windows Vista and later, water on Windows XP looks right. Also effect at Far Cry when dead bodies bleeding underwater is super cool, still remember it even today.
There is a 60FPS hack you can apply to Super Mario Sunshine that not only works on Dolphin but Nintendo Wii hardware as well. You need to use Nintendont for it to work on Wii, but as far as I am aware, Super Mario Sunshine has no performance issues outside of the game speed being slightly faster and warps taking longer than they normally should.
I wonder if Nintendont runs faster than a real GameCube? Chances are, the CPU is downlocked to match the GC, but the GPU might pick up a performance advantage.
Louis B The Wii (and Wii U through Nintendont) actually run at a higher framerate than the original console. So while the uncapped framerate might get a mostly stable 60 on a Wii, it surely wouldn't on a GameCube. Also keep in mind that Sunshine dropped below 30 on the GC in some instances (like the final boss). Uncapped the game would probably be 40ish fps on the GC on average.
Half-Life 2 water simulation was jawdropping at the time, but only under certain conditions. For instance, an ocean looked rather simple and exposed a very obvious rectangular grid of animated textures and very poor gradient colors (most of that was fixed with 2007 version of the engine though). However, a small river on T spawn of de_piranesi in CS Source due to right lighting and texturing still looks almost photorealistic.
I LOVED playing Blinx as a kid - I found the game very difficult but I couldn't stop playing - the world design, catchy music and the fact you play as a time-travelling cat kept me hooked. Nostalgia overload!
I know >.< It's not even on Steam. I got lucky and found a copy at a thrift store. It's a shame it's not on any digital platform as it's a really neat game
To me Bloodwake on Xbox was the best simulation of sea water in a game for me and its still holds true now. It didn't matter that there wasn't much reflections but the body of water's movement really made you feel like you're really controlling a boat cruising thru the waves.
I'm not sure if I've just missed it in the previous videos, but I really appreaciate you guys included the song list in the end! There have been many videos where I wondered where this and that song was from.
Actually, you're thinking of Flex, which is the new physx for water simulation. There's a demo that you can play around with too, if you have a decent enough graphics card. It's really not that demanding surprisingly, but implementation in games will be the hard part in the future.
Would really love to see a part 3 with info up through ray- and path-traced reflections. It would also be awesome if DF Retro considered looking at character animations through the years like this.
Screen Space Reflections is the worst thing to happen this generation graphics wise, they look bad, glitchy incomplete and out of place I'd take a simple but effective cube map over screen space reflections anytime.
Huh? They look great. I've seen a lot more shitty immersion breaking cube maps than screenspace reflections. For where a full scene flip can't be achieved, they are the best alternative. Imo, it is one of the *best* things to happen this generation. There are more reflective objects than ever before.
No, thank you. Cube maps look awful. They always misalign, and a lot. They work good for SMALL bodies of water within LARGE areas, but they look awful once there's a wall or ocean. They're static images that only care about the viewing angle, not your position. If you move without turning the camera, the reflection stays fixed on the screen while all the environment moves. I'd rather have screen space reflections or no reflections at all
Okay, they made very good hardware but look at the sales compared to something like the switch or Wii right now... The switch is respectable hardware since it's really a 6-inch tablet but something like the Wii u had very bad hardware. The switch is really something new which got sony interested in it in an interview. And you may not care about sales but Nintendo does as well as Sony and Microsoft. If you think a tablet can handle the power of a PlayStation 4 in a pocket, you really need to get off the internet...
Sam Keyworth that depends on your perspective of respectable. The gamecube is Nintendos second lowest selling console just above the Wii u. So to them making a console just based on power is not respectable.
Gamecube is a quite interesting little box that can cause several days of arguments over if it has programmable shaders or not. It DO run a "program" on the GPU, up to 16 instructions but those instructions are very simplistic and mostly for doing some basic operations on colors, also as DF kinda missed, it can deform a texture per pixel by using another texture's colors as UV coordinates (which is how it does the whole water picture deformation on sunshine). But as it's not let's say turing complete, you probably can't call it programmable shaders. Also dolphin converts those 16 "instructions" into a real shader program and caches it to emulate the system, but as the program is minuscle, some games such as metroid prime do a LOT of GPU shader swapping at a point it can bring a modern system down to its knees due modern shader compiling being rather slow.
So glad you mentioned Morrowind, I remember being really impressed by the water ripples when raining. I just bought a Geforce 2 MX en I really enjoyed the game.
Nintendo Water has always been my favorite water. They are experts at those techniques that give the illusion of amazing water. Id love to see Pikmin 3 mentioned! We need a part 3!
True, I love how people call the switch weak and should reach the power of a playstation 4 when it's a tablet that can at least play games that were on a playstation 4
3DS was also not behind its competitor Vita. It is difficult to place Switch anywhere in particular, it's between the stationary consoles that you expect to be high-power and the little handhelds that you expect to be quite limited in their capabilities.
I was really impressed with the water in Kameo on the xbox 360. For a launch title I feel it even holds up well today. Would love to see a part 3 to this John.
I could watch this all day. Very creative subject for those last two episodes. Hope to see more like that.. focus in one particular feature across many games and generations rather than 1 specific game. I don't now.. Shadows?
For me Sunshine was good but never lived up to Mario64. I think its a generation thing. I was 16 when Mario64 came out and growing up on 8bit and 16bit systems the 3d graphics and worlds blew me away
Both Uncharted 4 and Breath of the Wild have amazing water, particularly BotW. However I think that both are trumped by the ocean in Sea of Thieves, it's the only thing the game does right
@SegwayDweeb, Sea of Thieves is definitely todays best water iv ever seen. Every time I play the game I am always overwhelmed with how good the water looks
I find it kind of funny that when it comes to the technical stuff, I have no idea what he’s talking about, but I love these videos anyway. Also, Kelly Slater’s Pro Surfer has pretty awesome water effects for its time.
Back when Nintendo actually made powerful, kickass hardware. I miss those days. It breaks my heart that they always skimp out on hardware in favor of useless gimmicks nowadays.
they made very good hardware but look at the sales compared to something like the switch or Wii right now... The switch is respectable hardware since it's really a 6-inch tablet but something like the Wii u had very bad hardware. The switch is really something new which got sony interested in it in an interview. And you may not care about sales but Nintendo does as well as Sony and Microsoft. If you think a tablet can handle the power of a PlayStation 4 in a pocket, you really need to get off the internet...
Thank you, I was about to say, the Wii U proves that gimmicky underpowered hardware doesn't always work either. If Nintendo markets the system right, makes features that people want, and has a consistent and stellar lineup of 1st and 3rd party games, then a powerful, standard console would sell well. That's why the PS4 is selling so well
![DF Retro's Failed Consoles: Sega 32X - We Play Every Game [Part Two]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/w0JnJjdiu7w/mqdefault.jpg)
![DF Retro's Failed Consoles: Sega 32X - We Play Every Game [Part Two]](/img/tr.png)
*Timestamps*
0:00 - *GAMECUBE / INTRO*
2:00 - Wave Race: Blue Storm
5:58 - Super Mario Sunshine
11:48 - Star Fox Adventures
13:09 - Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker
14:59 - *XBOX*
16:36 - Blood Wake
17:26 - Blinx the Time Sweeper
18:50 - The Elder Scrolls 3 Morrowind
20:15 - Beyond Good and Evil
20:54 - Far Cry
22:18 - *PC*
22:18 - Half Life 2
23:58 - F.E.A.R.
24:40 - *OTHER EXAMPLES*
24:56 - Bioshock
27:24 - Halo 3
29:09 - Hydrophobia
No Hydro Thunder Hurricane? WTF?!
You da real MVP.
Anyone know what that game is at the 30:36 mark. It was one of the other examples
Blue Dragon
Pinned because this is great! Thanks for the help!
Please make a Part 3! This is by far one of the most interesting topics of video game graphics!
I agree, I would be nice to learn more a about the Splatoon Series maybe even touch on Sea of Thieves.
You're absolutely right , maybe we could see something amazing with the ray traycing methods (sorry for my bad english )
Basti
I think it's a safe bet that they will cover Wii, Wii U,PS3 and Xbox 360.
Agree, they basically stopped at last gen. What about games from this gen? Sea of Thieves comes to mind immediately.
RedVIII
This is DF Retro.
Xbox One,PS4 and Nintendo Switch aren't Retro machines yet.
I've been obsessed with Super Mario Sunshine since it came out. Ever since I started learning how to make games I've been picking it apart, learning it's secrets, and recreating all of it's little tricks in other game engines. I had grown up with the SNES and skipped the N64, so when the Gamecube came out and had this game featuring all of these cool physics puzzles and environments centered around water it grabbed ahold of me and never let me go. The game's one of the biggest reasons I wanted to make videogames.
I’m not an engineer or someone who really understands exactly how this is all done but I find these kinds of videos insanely interesting and this video especially is well put together for someone like me to understand. Great video.
We really need a part 3! Maybe not immidietly but down the line, please! This is an awesome topic that really doesn't get much attention.
So glad you mentioned *Hydrophobia.*
One of the examples of a great tech advancement in a not so great video game.
It was almost a good "waterbending" game, but the game ended before that potential was ever realized.
they were supposed to make a trilogy out of it, my guess is they when't under they were a small indie team. As for the game itself ugh... such a waste, I feel like it could of been a really good unique game had it gotten the proper polish etc.
The programmers of Hydrophobia did a great job making the impressive engine, but they didn't know how to use it to make a game, so the game is basically a tech demo with a ton of potential which was never fully utilized. It is most obvious in the end when you finally get the water powers and then the game ends 10 minutes later. There is so much they could do with it, shame the studio shut down :(
Zero Cool "could have"
Assassins Creed Origins's water looks really good. I was really impressed with it when I saw it.
The Dynamic Rain effect in STALKER: Clear Sky deserved a mention too. :( it is the first open world game which allows for such things to happen on all its objects, dynamically and without spazzing out making people under cover become wet.
Alexander Yordanov STALKER in general looked really nice for its time, only mitigated by the glitchy performance which still occurs today
OMG Hydrophobia the best fluid simulation for water with it's own engine design for that purpose in gaming history and because the game didn't sell well the company got bankrupt and they sold the assets....we lost this amazing engine.. 8 years after like John said in the video we don't have nothing like this. I guess the problem with Hydrophobia was the engineering cost of the water engine, probably took so much time and resources from a studio that wasn't really big and they didn't have enough resources or money to make a great game on top of the water engine. The game is still enjoyable and it's worth to play it just to see the water. The water is a joy in this game.
they forgot to add a game to their tech demo
@teacherfromthej😅😂ungles6671
One of the greatest series on YT.
It's just mindblowing how good Half Life 2 still looks for a 2004 game. Valve was so damn ahead of their time.
Looks pretty outdated.
Water honestly looked pretty bad, didn't hold up like some of the other examples in the video.
The quality of the reflection alone was incredibly impressive for the time, not to mention the water physics simulation. Hardly any games from 2004 hold up as well as HL2 in overall graphics besides like Doom 3 and Chronicles of Riddick.
Agreed.
There's something about half life.
Very few games from back then are still playable.
And not only that, still looks better than most stuff today.
Nah
You guys have made me appreciate gaming so much more. Before discovering this channel I took video game graphics for granted and start to get bored with games. You guys helped reignite my love for video games. Thank you so much
Never knew there was so much to talk about video game water but I'm enjoying watching these :D
The talk about Water never stopped. Back in 2001 Severance Blade of Darkness did not only schock people with its mind blowing shadows and awesome use of light sources. The water, while not having shader deformation. It had awesome reflections and looked just amazing. Then came Morrowind with shader water.
Later on, you stood at the deck of an aircraft carrier in Crysis 1. And the water just baffled your mind...
I'm quite the opposite. There's a lot to talk about water in videogames, but no one talks about it. I've never heard anyone talking about the approach Nintendo made with the reflections in Zelda BotW. The main two methods for real reflections are the expensive planar reflections and the faster screen space reflections. BotW uses something different and rather unique, but they made a tiny little mistake
That game creates like a faux planar reflection. You can't distinguish the objects or their shapes, but you can see approximations of them on the surface, although quite blurry. The reflections don't always match the color of the model, tho, I guess due to lighting. Their little mistake is that the reflections are calculated from Link's POV, but applied to a third-person perspective. Usually the blurriness of the reflections hide that misalignment, but I noticed it in a particular scene with a pool of water and a tree. I moved the camera and the reflection of the tree was misaligned if Link was not in-between the camera and the tree. My best guess is that it uses planar reflections with an overly simplified model with blurriness hiding the lack of detail, but I'm no expert. I still want an explanation about that specific game
David Navarrete Hmm, that's right, the reflections don't disappear when you look down, do they?
The reflections also seem to update very slowly, like 1fps or lower on Wii U. So maybe it uses planar reflections, but does so in as lightweight a way as possible?
Maybe, but they're not real reflections. Sometimes they do not even quite match the color of the models
I still think sunshine has some of the best water rendering and physics I've ever seen in a game.
We need part 3, please! :)
Far Cry's renderer is actually kind of buggy on modern systems, for some reason it won't render any terrain in the reflections even though it's supposed to. It looked a lot better originally, and it seems that there are fanmade fixes out there that correct this.
exactly
I made a reply about it too before I saw your comment :P
Either they get the fix, or I hope they have an XP disc laying around!
Just run it in compatibility mode
@@pegasusdrive12 compatibility mode doesn't always help, in fact usually it never works, at least in my experience. Then again, I never played the original Far Cry so I don't know how effective compatibility mode is
Ahh good old times when games were also heavily rated upon their ability to render realistic water. Thanks for reminding me all of this:)
Can't stop coming back to this, please make a part 3!
AC Origins have a great example of water phisics and light! One of the best I ever see.
Wow, at about 15:00 the intro of the May's theme song from the GGXX series starts. Great, I love it. Thank you John.
I really wish From Dust was gone over here, it's particle effects and physics for water and sand always really impressed me. I still think it has some of the best fluid and particle physics of any video game, especially considering how it's actually what the gameplay is built around and isn't just a technical gimmick.
underrated game! I wish it was made by an indie studio. I think that way the game would have lived on, with a sandbox mode or player made campains/scenarios. I'm probably reinstalling this again though.
"Feeling thirsty yet?"
Always, John.
I can tell you guys put a lot of time and care in researching for this series.
I love it can’t wait for part 3!
I rarely don't watch the entire video at DF. You all actually make gaming more interesting and fun. Great work and your passion certainly comes through!
WOO ANOTHER DF RETRO VIDEO!!
A part 3 on "modern titles" from Crysis up until Uncharted 4/BF4 paracel storm/Batman Arkham Knight and more, would be most appreciated. What has changed since Half Life 2, etc.?
I remember spending about 20 minutes just examining the stream in Halo where you crash land in the escape pod. I was amazed at how realistic the stream looked.
Both episodes were a joy to watch. Great job!
Don't end it here! Give us a part 3!
Was kind of surprised to hear Xenon's main theme at 11:49. Guess DF Retro is getting into PC-98 music.
Uncharted 3 is probably my favorite example of water in a game. Just amazing!! Would love to see a studio push newer graphics cards with top of the line water simulation.
It would be nice to have a series studying retro console architectures, their characteristics and perks. Please DF, make this possible!
I want the Swtich version of Super Mario Sunshine
Why not playing on Dolphin in 4k?
Mr. Beavis Portability and Nintendo usually adds content to their ports/remakes.
because you need a beast pc for dolphin.
not if you want to run games at 4k ,60 fps,16*AA and texture filtering...
i have a shitty pc and i have to use native resolution with AA and TF turned off, and some games struggle, not to mention playability issues with some games... a switch port would be useful
yeah they just need to take that one level out and i'm fine lol
John, make more! Id love to see an Xbox 360 Era and then an Xbox One Era of this topic. Especially because theres amazing water to be analyzed in games such as Watch Dogs 2. The water on that and on AC: Origins is simply incredible
Spade White it's just better textures but there is not really an improvement since then...
Dat jump from N64 to Gamecube!
I reeeeally loved watching this. Thank you for covering water in games!
It's easy to see how a lot of those reflections are made basically by flipping the screen upside-down, but what is Super Mario Sunshine doing?
Its camera can tilt up or down, and the reflections will accurately show objects and terrain that are completely off-screen, something that even modern games rarely do!
Is there a separate camera rendering to another framebuffer? (Essentially the GCN's way of doing a planar reflection?)
I love this series, water graphics is my passion 😍
I'm obsessed with water and hair in games. It's where I look first, always. Great series, John!
Blue Storm was an absolute triumph. The atmosphere,the ambient music before the race, the water physics when the waves rise and you get caught in their speed: the ENTIRE game was filled to the brim with content, and it was literally like you were bobbing up and down on a lake in the summer! The canal stage was astonishing
A bit disappointed that the Cryostasis was not mentioned.
It's the first game to use real deal fluid physics. A feature most people disabled in late 00s, as it was just too taxing on the systems of the time.
Too taxing? Nah. I could run Physx on Cryostasis with a 2008 9600 GT 512 MB.
Oh yeah ? and play the game at 15fps or less... I had that GPU the fisrt time I played Cryostasis.
Cryostasis is not being sold anywhere anymore.
Try Amazon, I can find a few disc copy for ~8€ new
And no, you can't activate it on Steam, and you'll have to find the patches. but if you really want that game you can find it.
Like i said in part 1: Great idea for a video ..
I would LOVE to see an expansion of this idea and see you guys make a video of the evolution of weather effects or maybe fire effects in gaming next?
Just some food for thoughts.
Best episodes you guys made so far. Please cover other graphical details like shadows/lighting, pixel shaders, physics etc.
Brilliant couple of videos. Was waiting for the second part and I'm not disappointed. Extremely interesting stuff, I hope we see more videos like this in the future!
This guy knows his water
Good stuff!
I remember watching this the day it went live. 5.8.18. Jesus where does the time go to. Still a great video, i love gaming water.
oh man, same.
Another fascinating look at how tech has evolved
It really is a pity no one has pushed dynamic water physics in a way Hydrophobia attempted to.
I’d love a Poseidon Adventure style game where a shifting capsized wreck has to be negotiated to escape.
BF1 and BF4 bloody nail water (look at paracel storm during the storm, or the beaches of Turning tides)
I've seldom been as impressed by graphics as I was the first time I saw the storm sweep across Paracel Storm.
I see you everywhere.
They even had water completely simulated with waves that were synchronised between all clients.
Indeed martin, and while i didn't like the game, i do have to say, the synced water tech was an achievement
DANNYonPC welp, now i want to play bf4
Mario Sunshine is still one of the best 3d Mario's.
Daikatana is one of the best shooters ever
See, I can take crazy pills too
Daikatana was impressive for the time but Sunshine has aged way better, it has awesome level design and art direction and the levels without FLUDD were the basic inspiration for the Mario Galaxy design layout.
Daikatana was most certainly not impressive for the time whatsoever.
But we can all agree that 3d Land was the weakest.
Noah P Wa simpressive lmfao what drugs are you on typical Nintendo fanboys says they are revultaobary when Oot and his game did almost nothing for its time
Probably people already mentioned, but reflection glitch at Far Cry happens only on Windows Vista and later, water on Windows XP looks right. Also effect at Far Cry when dead bodies bleeding underwater is super cool, still remember it even today.
How do you guys create so much high quality content? By far my favourite RUclips series. Thanks DF.
My god, so many water puns
Is it weird i've never seen him around? guess he doesn't visit good video's
they all just spilled over like a splash of awesome
I sea what you did there.
Part 3!!! Sea of thieves etc!!! 👍🏻👌🏻
Back in 2002-2003 I downloaded the alpha version of half life 2. Simply to experience the physics and the water effects. It was absolutely stunning.
This series is the most impressive and delightful content from DF to date. Keep it up!
The most unrealistic thing about water in video games is how it looks more realistic than actual water. Where I live all the water looks like sludge.
i advise you to not drink it
There is a 60FPS hack you can apply to Super Mario Sunshine that not only works on Dolphin but Nintendo Wii hardware as well. You need to use Nintendont for it to work on Wii, but as far as I am aware, Super Mario Sunshine has no performance issues outside of the game speed being slightly faster and warps taking longer than they normally should.
Louis B The thing is: would this hack work on real GC hardware?
Matheusfpolis1 That's what I wanna know too.
I wonder if Nintendont runs faster than a real GameCube? Chances are, the CPU is downlocked to match the GC, but the GPU might pick up a performance advantage.
Louis B The Wii (and Wii U through Nintendont) actually run at a higher framerate than the original console.
So while the uncapped framerate might get a mostly stable 60 on a Wii, it surely wouldn't on a GameCube. Also keep in mind that Sunshine dropped below 30 on the GC in some instances (like the final boss). Uncapped the game would probably be 40ish fps on the GC on average.
Great creative execution with graphics like with Sunshine's water is never _overkill_ to me.
The most chill videogame channel on youtube. Relaxes the sh*t out of me.
Half-Life 2 water simulation was jawdropping at the time, but only under certain conditions. For instance, an ocean looked rather simple and exposed a very obvious rectangular grid of animated textures and very poor gradient colors (most of that was fixed with 2007 version of the engine though). However, a small river on T spawn of de_piranesi in CS Source due to right lighting and texturing still looks almost photorealistic.
No Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow?
Always a great video from you, John!
This video is my anti anxiety drug of choice, ive been using it to sleep for years now. Its just such a chill topic
GameCube is probably the greatest console Nintendo has ever made.
*_(laughs in Wii)_*
You can remove the words Nintendo and has from this sentence...and it still works!
GameCube its an excellent console, but i prefer the Switch. Though the GameCube its my second favorite
Game Cube is pretty nice, but has gone from being underrated to being overrated.
@@saturn6458 Wii is just a slightly upgraded GameCube
Do part 3
I LOVED playing Blinx as a kid - I found the game very difficult but I couldn't stop playing - the world design, catchy music and the fact you play as a time-travelling cat kept me hooked. Nostalgia overload!
it was a long video but I loved every minute of it. Great job guys!
We've been having some warm weeks here in the Netherlands, so this video is quite...refreshing.
Got it?
Yeah I'll leave.
Robert Oortwijn leave now :D
feeling thirsty!
Ryan Skelton 😈💦💦😉💦
💦💦💦💦💦💦💦💦💦💦💦💦💦🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆🍆
I have never wanted to go swimming as much as I have after watching these last two videos! Great work
part 3 please ,this would make really fun series and its quite educative and entertaining.
I hope you cover more. A game called Cryostasis might have been a wonderful one to look at.
You can't even buy it anywhere anymore :(
I know >.< It's not even on Steam. I got lucky and found a copy at a thrift store. It's a shame it's not on any digital platform as it's a really neat game
Dolphin 5.0
Super Mario Sunshine
60fps Patch
Widescreen Patch
HD Texture Pack
Super Mario Sunshine graphics is incredible for a 2002 game
To me Bloodwake on Xbox was the best simulation of sea water in a game for me and its still holds true now. It didn't matter that there wasn't much reflections but the body of water's movement really made you feel like you're really controlling a boat cruising thru the waves.
I'm not sure if I've just missed it in the previous videos, but I really appreaciate you guys included the song list in the end! There have been many videos where I wondered where this and that song was from.
Say what you want about sea of thieves, the water is probably the best looking in any game ever.
TAGS Battfink actually the game is better now than on release, they decided to.. you know.. ad some content
PhysX?
Phas6?
Actually, you're thinking of Flex, which is the new physx for water simulation. There's a demo that you can play around with too, if you have a decent enough graphics card. It's really not that demanding surprisingly, but implementation in games will be the hard part in the future.
Havok is also very capable (ATi/AMD compatible). Many Xbox 360 and PS3 games had Havok physics engine implemented.
Would really love to see a part 3 with info up through ray- and path-traced reflections.
It would also be awesome if DF Retro considered looking at character animations through the years like this.
*Blue Water, Blue Sky starts playing* John, you beautiful man
Screen Space Reflections is the worst thing to happen this generation graphics wise, they look bad, glitchy incomplete and out of place I'd take a simple but effective cube map over screen space reflections anytime.
Huh? They look great. I've seen a lot more shitty immersion breaking cube maps than screenspace reflections. For where a full scene flip can't be achieved, they are the best alternative.
Imo, it is one of the *best* things to happen this generation. There are more reflective objects than ever before.
No, thank you. Cube maps look awful. They always misalign, and a lot. They work good for SMALL bodies of water within LARGE areas, but they look awful once there's a wall or ocean. They're static images that only care about the viewing angle, not your position. If you move without turning the camera, the reflection stays fixed on the screen while all the environment moves. I'd rather have screen space reflections or no reflections at all
Notice the trend?
Nintendo OWNED water rendering back in the days.
Okay Im pretty sure they ditched the gimmicky things and are all optional if they are there
Nowadays, they do a more artistic approach. Water in Xenoblade and Zelda BOTW still looks good and the water levels in Mario Odyssey look fantastic.
Okay, they made very good hardware but look at the sales compared to something like the switch or Wii right now... The switch is respectable hardware since it's really a 6-inch tablet but something like the Wii u had very bad hardware. The switch is really something new which got sony interested in it in an interview. And you may not care about sales but Nintendo does as well as Sony and Microsoft. If you think a tablet can handle the power of a PlayStation 4 in a pocket, you really need to get off the internet...
Sam Keyworth that depends on your perspective of respectable. The gamecube is Nintendos second lowest selling console just above the Wii u. So to them making a console just based on power is not respectable.
Gamecube is a quite interesting little box that can cause several days of arguments over if it has programmable shaders or not.
It DO run a "program" on the GPU, up to 16 instructions but those instructions are very simplistic and mostly for doing some basic operations on colors, also as DF kinda missed, it can deform a texture per pixel by using another texture's colors as UV coordinates (which is how it does the whole water picture deformation on sunshine).
But as it's not let's say turing complete, you probably can't call it programmable shaders.
Also dolphin converts those 16 "instructions" into a real shader program and caches it to emulate the system, but as the program is minuscle, some games such as metroid prime do a LOT of GPU shader swapping at a point it can bring a modern system down to its knees due modern shader compiling being rather slow.
So glad you mentioned Morrowind, I remember being really impressed by the water ripples when raining. I just bought a Geforce 2 MX en I really enjoyed the game.
Nintendo Water has always been my favorite water. They are experts at those techniques that give the illusion of amazing water. Id love to see Pikmin 3 mentioned! We need a part 3!
I wouldnt recommend watching this video if you have to pee
gamecube was the last nintendo console that wasn't behind competitors
Agamaz There aren't any mobile competitors to the Nintendo Switch, so I guess it is not “behind competitors“ either...
gettingbett yh well switch is an exception since it's so different
True, I love how people call the switch weak and should reach the power of a playstation 4 when it's a tablet that can at least play games that were on a playstation 4
well the ppl probs dont understand how tech works
3DS was also not behind its competitor Vita. It is difficult to place Switch anywhere in particular, it's between the stationary consoles that you expect to be high-power and the little handhelds that you expect to be quite limited in their capabilities.
I was really impressed with the water in Kameo on the xbox 360. For a launch title I feel it even holds up well today.
Would love to see a part 3 to this John.
I could watch this all day. Very creative subject for those last two episodes. Hope to see more like that.. focus in one particular feature across many games and generations rather than 1 specific game. I don't now.. Shadows?
I don’t care what anyone says, Mario Sunshine was enjoyable to me than Galaxy 1 & 2. It was a water mark so to speak.
taichi I enjoyed galaxy 1 more but the nostalgia around sunshine is still big
Galaxy despite its name was linear and small in scope. I thoroughly enjoyed 64, Sunshine and Odyssey more
For me Sunshine was good but never lived up to Mario64. I think its a generation thing. I was 16 when Mario64 came out and growing up on 8bit and 16bit systems the 3d graphics and worlds blew me away
Sunshine is a better game than the Galaxy games.
I personally wouldn't go that far but I do think it's heavily underrated.
Uncharted 4's water - hands down, thank you and goodnight...
bobocpe i would have agreed with this but then i played breath of the wild. The lighting effects on the water in that game are insane
Both Uncharted 4 and Breath of the Wild have amazing water, particularly BotW. However I think that both are trumped by the ocean in Sea of Thieves, it's the only thing the game does right
@SegwayDweeb, Sea of Thieves is definitely todays best water iv ever seen. Every time I play the game I am always overwhelmed with how good the water looks
Micke Man obvious troll is troll
Assassin’s Creed Origins has better water than Uncharted 4. At least at ultra on PC.
I find it kind of funny that when it comes to the technical stuff, I have no idea what he’s talking about, but I love these videos anyway.
Also, Kelly Slater’s Pro Surfer has pretty awesome water effects for its time.
14:58 Blue Water Blue Sky! Awesome VGM and very fitting!
Back when Nintendo actually made powerful, kickass hardware. I miss those days. It breaks my heart that they always skimp out on hardware in favor of useless gimmicks nowadays.
yeah and the power helped it reach 22 million less than the xbox and ps2 and it was the strongest. you sound dumb
they made very good hardware but look at the sales compared to something like the switch or Wii right now... The switch is respectable hardware since it's really a 6-inch tablet but something like the Wii u had very bad hardware. The switch is really something new which got sony interested in it in an interview. And you may not care about sales but Nintendo does as well as Sony and Microsoft. If you think a tablet can handle the power of a PlayStation 4 in a pocket, you really need to get off the internet...
Kid chaor yeah and a weak gimmicky console helped Nintendo reach 13M and kill off Sony and Microsoft
Thank you, I was about to say, the Wii U proves that gimmicky underpowered hardware doesn't always work either. If Nintendo markets the system right, makes features that people want, and has a consistent and stellar lineup of 1st and 3rd party games, then a powerful, standard console would sell well. That's why the PS4 is selling so well
Wait.. The switch isn't saleing well ether?
Physics/AI/Frame Rate > Graphics
Depends on game
LN2233 It really shouldn't. If a game looks amazing but plays like garbage, what's the point?
Higor, would you want a very good game with great graphics without very good gameplay?
Rage so you'd be ok with Atari graphics with super advanced systems?
Not that shitty of graphics but like in between ps4 and ps3 will be at least the standard for me.
Now if we’re talking about water, DIGITAL FOUNDRY NEEEEEEDSSSS to cover octopath traveler! the water in that game looks ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL
We definitely need part 3. Covering modern games like Mario Odyssey, Red Dead Redemption 2, Uncharted 4
Ahh my Sunday morning tradition.. sitting in my home office, drinking a gallon of coffee while watching DF Retro. It's already a good Sunday.
I'm a simple man. I see a DF video about water rendering, I hit the like button.
Thoroughly enjoyed this! Part 3 needed.
Always had a soft spot for Warcraft 3's water, it was cartoony and simple but was just sooo nice to look at.