How much should a 1 Card Combo do?
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
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we have gotten to the point where ratpier is a fair card.... are we finally reaching the breaking point?
I’m still out here trying to push lightsworns.. before this format I was still able to with the new support but the last couple months there’s no chance to play rouge and have fun.
Yes
Which is funny, because in Unlimited Format, where no card is banned, Ratpier is almost the sole reason Zoodiac is the second best deck (behind Tear obviously). Crazy advantage engine in a format with Shock Master.
No we havent
yes give me back my zoo
I think 1.5 combos like VW or Swordsoul are the sweetspot
Dragunity 1.5 card combos
Swordsoul was such a well designed archtype.
@@ab0xxy It's still my favourite synchro archetype to give to players new to synchro. best deck to teach the concept
it's crazy how much those decks aged well considering swordsoul when announced was hated by everyone because of how easy it was to make baronne and other ED stuff
I'd hardly call VW 1.5 because both of the cards matter. One card needs to be a normal summon VW or Qinglong/Kauwloon and the other card needs to be one of the 4 special summons. Plus you need a 3rd card at least because without a discard for Qinglong/Xuanwu there isn't going to be much of a combo. So VW is more like a 2.5 card combo deck.
1 card combos are maybe fine but should have an inverse ratio of power to resilience. If you normal summon Loci, you should absolutely explode to a single well placed hand trap or two on a big choke point, while Aleister should be able to beat hand traps and frankly not even be worth considering hand trapping. The problem is when decks like SE can randomly lose to 1 hand trap and then other times full combo through 3 because the choke point changes depending on your hand.
Branded fusion fits this paradigm perfectly. The full Combo is crazy, but ash on brafu ends the game a lot of the time.
@@matthewradabaugh1635 If Ash truly just auto won the game that would make it a badly designed combo deck like Synchron dying without Speeder. Everyone knows Ash on Branded Fusion is the biggest chokepoint, but saying they auto lose hasn't been true for a long time. Quem exists, Cartesia and Grang exists, Nadir Servant exists, Fusion Duplication exists. All still put up a reasonable board through Ash on BRFU.
@@Capta1nTD
It depends on the hand. Branded players are much better at playing through Ash now, but sometimes, they don’t draw them and just pass, and even if they don’t auto lose, their endboard is much worse
@@matthewradabaugh1635 Kinda. You dont always have Ash for BE though.
@@matthewradabaugh1635 I only agree partially.
Agreed Part: BF is "fine" as a 1 card combo in a vacuum because it requires you to play a lot of cards in your deck that are not ideal to draw, or be played in multiples. These are the risk that 1 card combos are supposed to take, but that risk keeps dropping.
Disagreed Part: BF still does too much for 1 card despite said risk. Also, the fact that the deck lives and dies by this one card and indirectly by opponent having Ash or not isn't really good design. Decks should not have so much power allocated to a single card while others are mediocre or bad.
Link monsters facilitated this hard. A lot of these one card combos that generate a lot of bodies would be empty bodies if they don't just convert to meaningful Link monsters that most decks can use
Links needs the Pendulum treatment from previous Master Rules. They are the bane of this game at the moment imo.
Yes and no. Links specifically the mechnic
Slowed down yugioh from reaching this point sooner, by limiting how much you access you can access your ED.
We say big boards of links because of that(firewall, gumblar) but
We were not seeing these huge negate boards until dragon link and their lines of play were really specific to arrows.
But after the revision there was no limiting factors.
So original links took away the possibly that allowed use to do whatever was possible. And gave the ability to always do something with monsters.
Now we have the possiblity to do anything with monsters.
Think about it, if the rules never changed, a lot of this bs would not happen as often.
The fact that so many "negates/interruptions" are just generic extra deck monsters hard contributed to this. I kinda wouldn't mind seeing IP and Appo go on the next list.
@@RyanAtlus yea previous we couldnt just summon a fusion in the main zone.
Verte in drytron is a good example of this making a beatrice would fill the EMZ stoping. The easily done bs plays.
Completely false. Links NEVER slowed down the game and made combos more degenerate immediately.
Hello anyone remember spyral….. rhat was the first year of links and then 2018 was an entire year of degeneracy due to links
"One card combos give you so much room for non-engine"
*Cries in D/D/D*
Well to be honest both Gate and Kepler are draining all your resources to pull a respectable board that if broken you have no followup, so D/D is at its peak with 2 card combos.
That's what makes D/D/D such a cool deck. While it still has access to one card combos (like the Contract with the Gate one), what really sets apart good players from bad players is what you do with two and three engine cards.
I still kinda hate how Gilgamesh streamlined the deck and your main concern shifted to finding ways to get two D/Ds on the field to summon him, but there was no way the deck could have survived without it and Machinex.
Anyway, I gave up on it ever becoming meta as soon as Bystials got released: they make the game unplayable for any Dark deck out there
I play like 15 non engine in ddd
1 card shouldn’t summon all your extra boss monsters give you follow up and just exist
So branded fusion should be banned as well
@@apocalipsenearbyYes.
@@apocalipsenearby aint no way we're comparing brafu to any link-based combo deck, brafu alone doesnt even put up anything notable, the fuck
@@Stanky_Foot Branded Fusion is fine if you ban Albion in this format. Winda is cringe in both Branded and Tear, but you cant extend much after Winda. It only really works if you summon her last.
@@Stanky_Foot The only thing that brafu does is enable Sanctifire Dragon, ban it and Branded is fine
9:27 “there is no one card combo that plays around Ash in branded” that part💯.
I think that statement is super important and what keeps a deck balanced. Because in the example branded would have to continue playing their deck in hopes of getting branded Fusion back. If a deck can just eat an ash or interruption and then just activate ANOTHER one card starter that’s when it feels toxic. And then if you stop the 2nd one card starter and then they activate a 3rd ☠️ that's clearly the line being crossed.
There is no one card combo that plays around a bystial in mathmech.
The thing with branded is it’s actually good even outside of its one card starter. It’s ability to plus has very little competition and has some really threatening effects even outside of one card starters. I don’t think it’s an especially good example for a one card starter debate
@@FrostReave but in term of design, Branded is one of the most balanced decks
@@blueping9278 Ha! The premise of “Fuse away opponents board and every card has a gy recovery effect” is not only infuriatingly obnoxious as a concept but my god the execution was somehow worse with Branded Fusion and Mirrorjade. When will Branded and Tear andies learn just because their cards don’t have Omni negate printed on it doesn’t make it well designed.
@@FrostReave You sound like a loser.
The thing about Normal Summon Aleister is that for most of its existence it was just one negate with followup that used a hard OPT resource (The normal summon).
I think general guidelines should be that a 1 card combo should lead to either 1 interaction + followup, or 2 interactions with no followup. 1.5 gets you to 2 interactions with followup, and 1 card combos that don't use the normal summon (Fiendsmith) should probably never make anything other than a single interruption.
Mechaba requires you to -1 from hand of the right card type to use, and you'd have to give up your Aleister followup to save it from getting attacked over by something with more than 2500 ATK. It's quite powercreeped now, where 1card combos lead to 8000 ATK on the field
Lo, prayers of the Voiceless Voice is exactly what a 1 card combo should be I'll die on that hill and I'll go down swinging
So loses to one hanstrap, but puts up good disruption if uninterrupted?
@@chewdoom8415 ye
I think Chimera is a good example of modern 1 card combos. If you open MSK and go for main deck berf, you’re locked into fusions and Chimera Fusion has some restrictions on what you need to use as material. The end board is breakable and doesn’t have Omni negates, instead has some layered interaction with some options you can summon from fusion so it’s got a bit of variety.
If you summon Gazelle with MSK instead, it becomes a 2 card combo.
Either way the MSK line is easily interruptible and then you have to have an extender or 2 to keep going. It also means you have to use more cards in hand to avoid funneling into MSK or berf to avoid the obvious choke points, which promotes thinking out your lines and what HT you are trying to avoid as some lines play around some HTs and not others. And MSK takes up your normal and the deck doesn’t have a lot of extenders that don’t use your normal without needing a fusion spell and enough material for the fusion summon. The deck gets a lot of advantage uninterrupted but if you stop it early it gets cut off quickly.
Chimera is such a well designed deck, but they fumbled big time making Coatl unable to add the Chimera Fusion itself.
I really like 1-card combos. But they should be kinda weak an be supplememted by additional extenders.
This makes knowledge of your deck rewarding, and stops you from just learning spreadsheets.
You underestemate the spreadsheets me boy. D/D/D has spreadsheets for entire hands
@@RuneKillerz109 i have made EDOpro AI (local bot) to do those hands optimally, as well as a spreadsheet that you input your hand and depending on what you run (Thomas, Rage, Cerberus, Patent, Newton being some variables) show you what board you can make, even some 2 card combos against handtraps. So I totally agree with what you say.
On the other hand, I find a "marincess 1 card combo" perfectly fine (the newest support revealing the hand is a bit annoying though) since it has big chokepoints and is by no way an unbreakable board. This is a big difference from SnAsh that not only does everything on its own, it doesn't have any restriction and is generic enough to abuse any archetype that has a lvl1 fire bridge into them.
@@babrad Cool. 👍
@@RuneKillerz109 I probably misphrased:
I do not underestimate the spreadsheets. But I enjoy decks like Branded and Tearlaments much more, because there are so many ways to do your combo that pure spredsheet knowledge is not enough (or at least too hard to remember).
remember when cards had restrictions? early xyz support cards denied synchro abuse.
Glad to see Marincess mentioned in this discussion. I think its a really well designed deck.
It’s very consistent but its locks keep it from getting out of control, and even though you love to open Blue tang, you can easily play with just a couple other marincess names instead, and even blue tang usually needs 1 extra name to really end on a lot.
If Snake-Eye was locked into Fire-only, how much different would it have been.
@@brandenlucero a huge issue I think needs to be explored more. Shit decks like Marincess water lock, then you have this which is cramming fiendsmith now and just throws out IP for free and sometimes Appo, fire lock would be much better
I draw the line when the deck can run 9 one card combos, can slot in 15 handtraps, can still extend even after 4 interruptions, and ends on 10 omninegates.
Madolche is the best example of what a one card combo deck should be. Pettingcessoeur, The most powerful one card starter in the deck not only locks you into the archtype when you use its effect to summon another Madolche from deck, but also requires to have no monsters in the grave, meaning that the cost of such a powerful starter is possibly sacrificing certain hand traps. Even their newest support Link monster, which is a powerful extender locks you into Madolche effects, making you more susceptible to Nibiru, the decks most challenging obstacle.
I think a nearly perfect line to draw is Tour Guide in unchained. its the only one card in the deck, its a normal summon only, unsearchable, and the endboard it creates is reasonably beatable especially if you have literally any board breaker (like, Imperm on Caeser is enough). only real issue I have is that Sharv dodge imperm can be frustrating, but holding imperm and using it on Caeser is so effective that it isnt a big deal. sucks for Veiler tho
I mean, idk how the endboard is now, but before the sharv hit you could play around non monster board breakers. Escape still give you a pop in addition to pop soul of rage, then soul of rage would add back sharv, then yama revives soul of rage. Soul of rage itself is really 3 disruptions since you remove a special summoned monster, get sp on summon effect then the temporary banish.
Under DRNM that's still 4 disruptions and 3 when dodging evenly
I still consider Dinos to be the most comfortable power level.
- 2 card combos
- a single blanket protection effect
- leans towards in-theme hand trap and board breakers
- ends on a Dark Ruler-able board
- vulnerable to Droll & Lock Bird
- can recover one card after being board broken
If a deck is better than Dinos in any category, they should lag behind Dinos in any of the other categories. The issue is Snake Eyes and Fiendsmith surpass Dinos in *every* category. And if the most reliable rogue deck can't compete, what hope is there for lesser decks?
Misc is not a fair card at all, that card alone is a problem
@@Musical_Nero If Tenpai can have 3 Sangen Summoning, Dinos can have 1 Misc.
@@casketbase7750 Who said they can? That shit is degen too
@@casketbase7750 Misc is much better than Sangen and Tenpai without the Charmy don't even have the Dino floor as their ceiling.
Lingering effect vs Field Spell, body on demand, free extender, usable on the opponent's turn, more searchable.
Also I don't know about DRNM etc since you can end on Secret Village if that's an issue, or just cheat DRNM with a Trap like Black Goat so that Lars can negate it.
Finally Droll isn't that huge of a deal for Dino compared to Blossom, Shifter and ironically Lancea as well.
Keep it like fighting games. If I start a combo with a light attack, it’s harder for the opponent to react, the damage output is low, but enables further setup and counterplay.
The riskier the investment, the greater the reward. I’m not sure why Konami doesn’t go with that design approach.
The problem with one card combos isn't the one card combos themselves.
It's the absurdly large amount of them. The main issue with SE is that almost every card in the deck is a 1-card combo. And because of this, hand-traps might as well not exist.
A combo deck should be focusing on one specific starter initiating one optimal combo, and less powerful "back up" plans if something were to go wrong.
On top of that, I genuinely believe that Link summoning should be reworked in an MR6 update so that it doesn't activate GY effects unless the monster used for material has an effect that specifically activates when used as one. That would fix SO many issues.
That would kill resonance insect thou
You've identified the most important consequence, all Yugioh balance/design changes should be made with Insect decks in mind first and foremost. @@mmmbhss3468
I never liked the idea of using a link 1 to go into a link 2. It’s like using an generic XYZ to make another generic XYZ and counting the ranks as levels. When I first saw that, I just knew it was going to be a problem. Making a link 2+ should only be with non link monsters, unless stated. Sure cutting this mechanic out will kill a lot of link decks, but the pendulum mechanic killed a lot of pendulum decks.
Beetrooper's biggest hater
@@tonberry2670 ngl you lost me at 1 card combos is not the problem themselves ye absolutely a 1 card combo like snake eye ash and samsara d lotus should be able to put up almost unbreakable boards and go + a billion
Zoodiak walk so snake eye could fly. But Imagine how powerful zoo would be if every main deck monster would two decent effects like the snake eyes monster or tear
Ratpier has good 2 effects. Foolish burial and a search.
@@gaaraofthefunk265 yeah ratpier is written like a 2024 card but the protection effects of the other are mid at best, a modern whip tail would be at the start of the dmg step or maybe a ignition effect and ramram would be reborn on summon like oak
@@alexanderpech7302 If ratpier was written like a 2024 card, it would have 3 effects where 1 allows it to freely summon itself. There is a great video about the "3 effect rule" (summon + search + float) for good cards, and if you notice the key cards of every deck typically use it (Poplar, Engraver, Spirit etc)
I think 1-card combos should give you a respectable amount of interaction, but fold to the smallest of interruption. Imo the best example of a 1-card combo is Red Dragon Archfiend; If you ONLY have Soul Resonator or Gaia, you could by the very least end on a negate from Abyss, a pop from Red Zone, and potential follow-up from Gaia. It's more than just sitting on 1 monster, but it's very beatable and you actually do fold from interrupting Soul or Red Rising.
Another thing that 1-card combos need to be, is inflexible. If you're committing to the 1-card, you shouldn't be able to somehow pivot to plan B if it gets interrupted; That should be your ONLY option and if you do have a plan B, it should be just as weak as plan A.
Soul Resonator gets you Supernova + Red Zone if uninterrupted. And if you'll fold to 1 handtrap anyway, you should likely go for the stronger end board.
I dunno, Zoodiac kinda felt like it was ruining the game because that engine was in everything.
Zoodiac was a 2020-21 deck made in 2017.
Yeah, the engine was everywhere and that's why it was bad for the game; it's not much different from Fiendsmith.
However, all the engine did was end on a Drident and start some kind of combo if the other half of your deck had anything searchable by Bull. That engine plussed heavily, but it came at the cost of many slots in your extra deck. I'm not sure the Zoodiac engine would be meta today, even if you unbanned all of it. It would probably still be used since it's a pop going first and a Zeus with tons of materials when going second, but it doesn't do much else and it definitely doesn't provide any follow-up
@@florinalinmarginean1135 With everything unbanned, the standard combo ends on Drident + 2 Lv4 bodies (Ratpier) + another Zoo (Chakhanine) + follow up (Broadbull). Bonus points for opening Barrage, because then you can do all that without your normal summon.
I'm not trying to compare it to modern 1 card-combos, but let's please be careful with statements like "full power zoo wouldn't do anything today" :-) if all their cards were legal, it would still be a *VERY* powerful engine.
@@tmaz9474 I see what you are saying, but I never said "full power zoo wouldn't do anything today".
My point is that modern one card combos, like Snake-Eyes, are much more powerful and often provide follow-up, which Zoodiac doesn't. Moreover, the best one card combos usually belong to link decks, which wouldn't waste five or six slots in the extra deck for the Zoodiac engine, which can only be accessed by drawing into a Ratpier (but then why waste your normal summon on that rather than Ash) or into Barrage (the best scenario).
It would be playable in any deck where Bull can search something relevant or decks that don't really need much space in the extra deck though
JOSHUA.
I agree overall that one card combos are not okay, but there is something to be said about 'Ceiling Vs. Fragility'.
When the deck that only plagues Europe, because of one player that quit, because Europeans don't read, can be stopped by any two non Bystial non engine cards and some reading, it speaks volumes about it being balanced. Plants are a deck full of bad cards trying really hard to be good cards, your take is crazy to me, but as you said, it is just you personally.
In saying this, ban Jasmine and plants completely stop functioning at all. Which should happen at some point, but we'd need to give plants actual cards. So instead of hating on Plants so hard (imo unjustifiably), hate on Jasmine, because you'd be right to have issue with Plant Isolde.
1 card combos can and should exist. We just need interaction during it. We’re going about the whole thing wrong too. If we cant stop the one card combo, we should instead pivot the design philosophy to play alongside it.
Imagine if there were in archetype handtraps that, instead of trying to stop a combo, it responded after a step of the combo, furthering your own game plan or doing a minor interrupt to help you put your foot in the door next turn (but not outright make your opponent scoop if they are interrupted)
“After your opponent activates a monster effect on the field: You can discard this card; do X”
“After your opponent activates a card effect in the GY: You can banish this card from the GY; do Y”
This is inspired by Rush Duel traps, where nothing negates or chains to an opponent’s effect, but do things after. It allows the player to feel content with resolving their stuff like allowing the opponent to interact.
In short: We need havnis, the deck
What even is the point of having more than 1 turn then if both players are going to try to get their endboard turn 1. Tear0 2.0?
1 card combos should never have been created.
Just to elaborate: the "fair" 1-card combos are what allows the crazy 1-card combos to exist, because Yugioh is in an infinite state of power creep. And for me personally, hyper-consistency makes the game boring, it's why I hate pretty much all linear combo decks. Watching the exact same combo play out game after game after game is mind-numbing to me, and not the Yugioh that I love, personally.
That's exactly why I play Paleo. The variety in hands and plays is so refreshing
I enjoyed VS for a little and topped a few locals with it, just being able to bounce around my monsters and not do a 6 minute combo was very fun.
Hard disagree. Consistency what makes modern yugioh fun, every deck gets to express itself and show what its all about. The power ceiling the problem.
Circular was fine at 1. There were little to no mathmechs in the competitive landscape after it's limitation, so there was no reason for the ban
the ban was the apology for designing such a dreadful card.
Correct, but I'm not sure if it would be good to have around now with malice. Josh called the cyberse pile.
@@chewdoom8415 true, but to play a mathmech engine in that deck you'd need to give up shifter. And I think the ability to shifter is better tbh. Circular is banned tho, so I guess we'll never find out lmao
My take on 1 card combos is that they should be a combo, but not full combo. Let a starter be a base combo the deck can produce and have extenders produce a better board. If the starter card gets interrupted and you have an extender in your hand, you should still be able to produce your base combo and not an extended or full combo.
Agreed, a single card doing basically 5 different things in every field location powercreeps the hell out of the entire game. I'm fine with a card doing 1 thing particularly well but when outed not coming back for basically free. We even now see poplar-like effects being printed for different support cards for other archetypes to deal with this. You can't constantly increase power levels of singular, often generic cards without messing up the entire game balance.
Yeah one card combos can be fine if the ceiling for such combos are lowered. Abyss Actor - Extras is a fine example. You end on 2-3 monsters from a pend summon, the field spell, and a set script to combo with the field spell. But by locking you into AAs from the beginning, you can't do generic shenanigans if you use Extras as a starter. However, if you draw REALLY well, there are 3 card combos that CAN spit out the generic board and then use Extras and the AA Links as extenders, but you can't go that route with JUST an Extras. I feel like that's what these combos should be. A sacrifice of ceiling for consistency.
I actually discovered a really good 1 card combo that results in an omni negate that works in every deck. Its a really linear combo, so I will break it down point by point:
Step 1: Set solemn warning
That's not an omni, judgement is
@@RandallHidalgoS21allas96 you right. I mixed up my solemns
@@pocketfluffal2134 we all do at least once
@@pocketfluffal2134 Step 2: Read Solemn Scolding :)
Set Solemn Strike.
One card combo Actually helps casual players as well as new player, it's the Moye simple boss combo, the Normal summon Aleister that needs to be promoted... not the 1 Snake-eyes Ash into a full deck
no it doesnt it steamlines everything and makes every hand the samehand with the same flowchart
yes it helps turn a potential good players into braindead idiots
@@troytheboy1985streamlining helps newer players. Not combo spreadsheets
Well snake eye ash is only full combo with poplar. What does ash search without poplar? birch. A card not even being played.
@@cuttlefish6839 yeah but you don't call playing your deck correctly a 40 card combo, it starts at ash and makes the full end board, 1 card combo
one card combos in the past let to one specific bossmonster or two
it got problematic when they got options
I think doing a tier list of different one card combo starters based on how well designed they are would be great content. You could even ask on twitter/ in chat for suggestions of cards
Ratpier was not ok this is straight up gaslighting man
He means it was dominant at the time but wasn't hopeless if they get to play, which is true
It was not ok in 2017
Ratpier is a poorly designed card
@@Musical_Nero i mean it was very opressive, you could still play but at some point all decks had at least 8 zoodiacs or so because you were so crippled if you didnt play them against someone who did. it was unfair at the time, now it doesnt seem so because you can just play zoodiacs and they dont compare to current power-level, but at the time this was very much not the case.
@@demianrusso2499 I'm still convinced that whoever designed Zoodiac thought that you could only stack them on top of other Xyzs. Ratpier makes sense if you need to get two mons on the field to Xyz first, and then you're just getting back to having two mons after.
Labrynth are two-three card combo, still pull wins. Can I wish for something to solve the card economy thou.
we're talking about a different ballpark there. The best lab hands are one monster and 4 traps. The furniture turn 1 play is super weak more often than not.
labyrinth is a well designed deck, it uses the most powerful weak cards(traps) so it ends up balanced because of it. most well designed fair archetypes work in the same way, if they are a spell archetype(arguably the strongest card type) they are restrictive. big combo decks with one card starters make good cards(monsters) too good without restricting anything, even letting you play complementarily the busted monsters with busted spells.
They shouldn’t end with a near full hand with possible disruptions,, multiple GY interactions that is further disruptions or grind resources, and end on strong generic EDs that Negate on top of that.
Branded when you take out the lock is pretty skillful. You have to navigate the board carefully and force them to fire their interruptions earlier than optimal and you can actually mess up their follow up
"Unless it's Circular" Yeah, thats the POINT OF THE DISCUSSION
Because I know they won't go away (Even though they should.) I believe one card combos can be fine...if they are extremely frail and weak to interruption. Want a more resilient combo? Better dump two or three cards. But you should not, at all, be allowed to go full throttle to your perfect endboard with basically no way to be fully interrupted or stopped, off one card. Again, I believe one card combos should just be axed ENTIRELY but, they won't. So instead, just make them frail and easy to stop. And make one card combo starters be hard once per turns, or just straight up once per duels.
Misscelaniousarus is probably like, *right* on the line. But it's also not really a "one card starter" but I think it's worth it to think of because dinos usually use it as if it's *the starter card*
Misc by itself doesn't do anything. You need to at least have one of the babies in hand.
@@Raphael4722 Putting that issue aside, Misc is also not a "fine" card. Disregarding Dino players, Misc is one of the most universally hated cards in the game, and for good reason.
Loci was never a problem though. It felt ridiculous that a normal monster could end on a massive board, but it had very clear choke points (imperm Dryas, ash sowing, nibiru or droll pretty much anywhere, dshifter) AND didn't have much in the way of extenders that allowed you to just continue with your combos. The only omni it put out was regulus, and that required you to play at least two bricks in colosseum and regulus himself, and the deck had nearly zero room for non engine.
One card combos become a problem when they can be played alongside 15 nonengine and also are not stopped by a well timed piece of interaction. One of the problems with snake eye is just that it has multiple extenders that get them to full combo anyways
Nah, plants do way too much and I'm tired of people making excuses for decks just because they are a _bit_ weaker than Snake-Eyes. The 60-card build that Jess Robinson used to get 2nd place at UK nats ran Crossout to counter hand traps and main decked several board breakers.
Yep plant is no way near snake eyes power lvl. The fact they need build most of their deck to facilitate that, which makes em unable to run a lot of no engines, kinda makes em fine.
Combo itself also more vulnerable to handtraps obviously than snake eyes too. Just coz some great player does well with it doesn't make the deck good lol.
@@Raphael4722 Crossout being at 3 in the TCG is very dumb and it's good that TCG players are realising that.
@@Raphael4722 yeah but they cant play EVERYTHING, some decks can literally just be good-stuff piles and do it all, decks dont need to be weak, they need to be fair. like plants are strong, but they are fair because you have to give something up to play them, they can only fit so much. its like branded, you only have 15 extra deck spots so you cant fit all versatile cards there plus everything you need for the archetype(thus not splashable), obvious choke points, but still a very high ceiling deck. some modern decks are too close floor and ceiling wise(as in their floor powerlevel is very close to other decks ceilings)
@@Raphael4722 Cool, she had 3 cards out of 60 that could insulate her from a hand trap. The deck was still super interruptible and could not recover gracefully from early hand traps. Jess is an incredible duelist and took the deck as far as just about anyone could, but she definitely did not win off of loci being a 1 card combo that ends of a billion interactions.
Wait until we get 0-card combos. Like imagine something like Theinen the Great Sphinx with a rare in-deck Trigger effect, but generic and also a combo starter.
Imagine a Link 1 with "must first be Special Summoned by sending the above card from your deck to the GY".
@@L_O_V_E_L_A_I_N The scary thing is, I could see that happen for fusion monsters at some point in the future.
Step 1 was fusion spells sending materials from deck, Step 2 was Astraloud banishing from the GY without needing a fusion card... maybe Step 3 is sending from the deck without needing a fusion card. At this point, who knows.
We already have something like that in the form of phantom of yubel
I feel like a normal summon should give you an option of play offensively, defensively, or passively. Oviraptor yet being a little over-tuned was pretty close to this. We just need normal summons that do that in a unique way. Also they always ALWAYS need a hard opt. Or they only doing there normal summon effect WHEN normal summoned. Maybe give them a separate effect when special summoned that is slightly weaker
I just created a rikka/sunavalon deck and...
1 normal monster=
+1 omni negate
+2 negate monsters
+ 1 return opponent monster to hand
+1 tribute opponent monster +opponent can only use 1 spell/trap
If the cards in my hand are good, I can
+prevent the opponent from special summoning 100%
+ or +1 monster tribute and steal 1 monster card
But if there's just any handtrap, this deck can't even play anything if the cards in the hand are bad :v
As a Majespecter player for the budget lulz, I often ask this. One of 6 Raccoons/Crows can end on a Orthrus, Draco (summoning Kirin), field spell, omni-trap. It definitely needs more (and other 4 cards in hand help) but how much help is the right amount.
2 disruptions off one card + a floodgate = not enough lol
What’s the floodgate?
@@Miwles Probably secret village
@@Miwles A field spell of your choosing off Majesty Pegasus, usually Secret Village or Necrovalley
The endboard off bunbuku iirc is floodgate + kirin + solemn strike + either banish or pop, depending on what brick you run. So its floodate + 3 disruptions and it is enough. The problem with majespecter isnt that the board is too weak, its that the geniuses at konami didnt add the targeting protection to the link making it the biggest chokepoint since halqifibrax and since the link locks you, you dont have many good going second tools like beyond or exceed into accesscode.
@mcmisterhd1920 That's incredibly annoying. It's more often than you'd think that you can hold Wind to tribute it off to dodge Veiler/Imperm, but it feels so bad when it literally feels like they just forgot it
Majespecters can still get Ashed which hurts your one-cards and can't dodge that way, and the Majespecter lock REALLY hurts on Orthros as you say. Beyond into Exceed into Accesscode is powerful, but Orthros being the main reason to play it over a pend pile... yeah.
One card should not combo at all. One card, by itself, should have one, MAYBE two layers of interaction. It can search, it can SS, it can revive from gy/banish, it can return to deck, it can out another card, whatever. It can do a MAXIMUM of 2 of these things, not counting whatever applicable floating effects might exist (such as HOPT or you can only summon dark, ect.)
It CANNOT do three different things from 3 different locations, special summon, have no HOPT clause, have protection and can generate card advantage. That's fucking busted and that's modern yugioh.
Purrely is the PERFECT example deck for what single cards should do. They can make pretty good monsters from the ED, but in and of themselves they are all 2-card combos. Purrely needs to draw from top and hit a spell otherwise you gain nothing, Purrelyly can search, but not quick plays which are needed to ss from the ED. the quick plays can SS a main deck monster but you MUST discard. The cats can SS from the ED but MUST have the applicable quickplay in hand (or gy) to do so, and the end goal is a single towers boss that requires hella setup to bring out and can often fail to if you don't get lucky.
Modern yugioh ALWAYS brings out the boss monster. Every. Single. Time. That's not good game design. That's just ridiculous
I don’t think it’s what the one card combo does but how many one card combos a deck can play to get to the same end board
Ironically Dragonling is a solid 1 card combo but needs set up.. My only option left is to put shifter in lightsworns and use my kryptonite to my advantage.
It can be a 1 card combo if you open Charge of the Light Brigade and mill 1 single name that remains in the GY on resolution(so not Wulf). But Dragonling by itself is not a 1CC, but it could have been if it’s Foolish effect worked on Normal Summon.
The fact that a card like Dragonling has to have this really rough restriction while cards like Snake Eye Ash and Poplar are allowed to exist will never not infuriate me.
@@sallas09 needing to open 2 specific cards makes it literally anything but a 1 card combo
@@ak47dragunov you’re not opening two cards. All you need is Charge. If you open Charge, play it, and happen to mill any name that stays in the GY, you search Dragonling, then activate Dragonling’s effect to summon itself, then that’s the full Lightsworn combo.
@@sallas09 Dw I know, I play Lightsworn Tear I'm familiar with the cards. Thing is, Charge needing to hit in order to make its search live in and of itself puts it in a different category from any true 1 card starter
I've adapted to 1 card combos. Where it gets out of hand is when that card not only allows you to set a strong board, but it has effects that happen at multiple stages of the turn, not only in their turn but on yours as well, at speed 0, that never even give you a chance to interact and respond with no penality cost. While having recycle and draw power.
It’s insane to me that they limited airlifter when rescue was in a 3 way tie for best deck for less than 2 months, but have left snake eye untouched for 6+. Snake power crept rescue anyways.
They do things like that all the time. I remember the random lyrilusc hit or the servant of endymion limmit (with electrumite already on the list). As soon as purrely became relevant they crippled the deck. If it's not the most expensive deck(s) they will hit it randomly even if its a rogueish deck, but toxic deck with little to no counterplay like Kash with arrise have a "pass ticket" for 6 months or more.
1 card combos should pay my taxes and put gas in my car tank.
7:51 i like this take honestly. One card combos should operate more like glass cannons. Easy to stop but if let go they give you all the gas you need to setup within reason.
Id love to see a mini series or just a one time event of just all the "op" wave maker decks at their full power so we can see how much weve actually progressed in power creep. Decks like Zoo, Kash, Tear, Snake Eyes, Spright, Sky striker, Mathmech etc etc like maybe the top 12 notable decks and their variations completely unlimited. There may be a clear winner because of match-ups, but id love to see it anyways!
There are still good decks that don't do 1 card combos, for example Labrynth doesn't have any, if you're on 1 card you've pretty much lost.
I think Konami is just lazy with designing powerful archetypes so they just throw a bunch of 1 card combos.
Arianna add big welcome
@@Miwles yes and i's not a combo
@@valenting33162 bodies on the Field + 1 draw.
It Is a One card combo, Just a weak One, on the level of aleister.
Pop pass? Not a good board
@@valenting3316Yes till your GY are loaded with Labrynth Furniture and Welcome Lab
It might just be my bias for it since I've mained for quite some time but I like how Tri-Brigade Fraktall basically does what the deck needs which is fill the grave with material and then searches you (through dumping Nerval or Kitt to Nerval) a Tri-Brigade to start things off. I just wish they added more to the archetype like a Link-1 or something because Kitt, Nerval, and Kerass become essentially Garnets if you don't draw a Fraktall or find a way to fuel your Graveyard.
Another thing to keep in mind about something like Centur-Ion is that if you don't open Primera you don't have half of your engine get you direct access to it for no real cost, your only other option is Emblema Oath. Trudea takes a normal summon and requires a slight tweak to your line because you need to use Trudea's effect. Stand Up demands a discard and that also requires you to rework your line slightly because if you use Stand Up to get Primera you don't have the ability to place a different monster. If you don't open Ash, you still have Bonfire or any part of the Sinful Spoils package that can take you directly into Ash even without really changing the lines on what you might have wanted to do.
Hmmm. But you are still basically end up with a level 12 centur-ion with two in the s/t to set up crimson dragon, correct?
They could also make 1 card combos where, say for example a card Specials 1 from deck, then you can optionally discard/banish a card of the archetype from your hand and if you dont do it, you are locked into the archetype, so you get a 1 card combo with your archetypal endboard, but making it into a 1.5 card combo gives you more flexibility/power in terms of endboard/utility
I like chimera. 1 card usually ends with a hand rip, two negations that aren't omni, and a barrier statue, but it's really fragile
Marincess representation!! by no means is my fave deck competitive anymore, but it's absolutely one of the more "fair" decks in yugioh. Water locks at several points in combo - you need a starter + extender to get to argonaut + trap ( blue tang ends on bubble reef / argonaut + field spell on its own), there's tonnes of room for non engine, but there's nothing inherently broken that just says win the game on any of the cards. at best you have a towers endboard, maaaaybe a toadally awesome / water rank 4, an archetypal imperm, + whatever handtraps you maintain in your grip
infinitrack harvester is the best 1 card combo balance wise. yeah it can give you an omni but you kinda lose off the draw 2 if you go for that
mathmech and plant still has higher ceiling than snake eye, it's just that snake eye is way more resistant to hand traps.
You sound crazy, maybe plants but not mathmech lol
actual brainrot if you think mathmech has a higher ceiling than snake eye I want what drugs you've been taking
@@maztheop1359 factual
@@Player_04 it's because (almost) all interrupts are "fair" and require a long setup 😎
Nice troll
the most that we should be able to do, The Hidden City add guru, City flip guru, guru add fiendess. Done.
Also, set 3 floodgates.
I thought Guru one card combo is red eyes fusion into Dragoon set five pass
Do you have a minute to hear about our lord and savior Mimighoul?
Guru is floodgate turbo
@@BlackBeartic229 And floodgates mean set 1-5 and pass. The Paleo boomers should all love turn skips such as Shifter and Calamity for gutting combo and forcing the opponent to set and pass like the good old days.
I love this type of stuff. 1 card combos are not bad if it’s mechaba, a battle trick and follow up, but they are bad if it’s a whole board of 7+ interactions plus hand traps.
I think it is significant if a one card combo goes into a archetype specific line vs a generic setup, seeing something like Zoodiac jump through a bunch of Zoodiac cards seems fine to me because that is what the archetype was supposed to do. When on the other hand when your 1 card ends on generic board of Borreload savage dragon and Barrone, and maybe a Apollousa for fun, then it seems something has gone seriously wrong with something in that card line.
Of course the archetype combos can still be pulling off op 1 card combos, but I feel that is more of a conversation on the end board cards then the combo itself.
When Master Duel first came out, I started using a "one card combo" deck based around Sangan. I thought it was so cool that I could use Sangan as its own normal summon, link 1 into almiraj, grab an extender that can just special summon itself, and go into a link 2 like Halq or Verte. And then with Tour Guide and other extenders, I thought I made something really strong. But the strongest things you could do required more than just the Sangan, since you would want to get out Dagda and Halq/Verte to get the T.G. Magician/DPE + artifact scythe lock turn 1 and that's when it's oppressively strong. That was when the extenders were things like jester confit, turbo booster, crusadia arboria, etc. A bunch of stuff that was nearly useless on their own. That deck didn't even always OTK on the follow up turn lol. My friends still thought it was stupid how overly strong it was.
In retrospect, it's crazy to think that was only like 2 years ago. Now the combos are even longer, and require less to do more.
I play Centur-Ion at locals without calamity because I think it's really fun and interactive for both sides!
Lots of people ask me why I don't play calamity because I'd win every game if I did, and to that I just laugh, "we all come here to have fun" losing is part of it
Unless it's on master and you play solitaire while I sit there doing nothing
Surprised no one brings up Spright in these discussions since it really feels like it set the standard for what we see now, including having a 1 card starter/extender in Spright Starter that doesn’t take up the normal summon. It would set up boards with varied interactions from negates to bounces to banishes. Spright Elf could be an extender, protection, set up, and follow up in one card (reminds me a bit of Flamberge/Promethean in that regard though not as powerful of course). Gigantic of course clearly was designed to blank Nib specifically. With Snake Eye, they followed a similar model but just took away the already minimal level/rank/link 2-type restriction and gave a ton more ways to jam through that 1 card combo and play through hand traps if it got interrupted
I do think one important part of criticizing one card combo is decided by whether this combo depends on nomal summon. When one card like circular can do so much without normal summon, this combo is OP.
Snake eye is special that although ash need normal summon but Diab don't need normal summon.
Invoked dogmatika is the perfect prototype for what yugioh should be
Dogma literally is extra deck rip turbo lmao. Not even close
it was ending on a floodgate and its extremely boring.
@@BlackBeartic229I gotta assume they’re referring to pre-support when it was played with invoked and didn’t have hand ripping. Was basically just a control deck with a couple interactions and a winda if you drew the right stuff
The earliest example i can think of for a true combo would be dragon ravine. You either add dragunity dux, or send phalanx, then normal sumon dux gets you any lv 8 synchro. The first _one_ card combo i can think of is tour guide being a instant rank 3.
I thought this was a 1 card combo tier list for a sec
I absolutely love Marincess and have been playing it since release in all formats.
Every monster technically combos, but in slightly different ways and around different handtraps, and because of that, it's one of the most consistent decks ever, but it only ever make 1-2 interuptions and never any floodgates.
Voiceless and Swordsoul are the best examples of one card combos that are balance. You have a decent board that doesn't bring back all your resources if you get board wipe and you can handtrap at certain points that can stop their play. The reason everybody is fed up with Snake Eyes is because if somehow you manage to wipe their board, about 90% of the time they will just rebuild their entire board again if you don't kill them on turn 2. It doesn't help that the deck can play through like 3 handtraps because they can use your Ash Blossum with Hiita to make Promethean.
Well, that's a searcher, what does the searcher search? Blue boy prophecy
We've reached a point where Hazy Flame has 1-card combos. Hazy Flame, the archetype that effectively needs a tribute summon to get anything done, HAS 1 CARD COMBOs.
how
I mean, sometimes your deck is so trash that it NEEDS a one card combo to be playable
Tbf it's borrowed support and HF is outdated and horrible.
If it were to get modern support it'd probably have 1 card tribute combos
@@F3XT Alright bear with me:
(Currently only legal in OCG, due to Duke of Demise not being imported yet).
1: Normal Summon SE-Ash, search Poplar
2: Summon Poplar, search OSS
3: Link Poplar into Relinq. Anima, place in S/T
4: send Ash and Poplar to GY to summon SE-Oak, revive Ash
5: Link Oak and Anima into Moon of the closed heaven, then Fiendsmith Requiem
6: Tribute Requiem for FS Engraver, equip Requiem
7: Activate OSS, send requiem to summon Ponix from deck
8: Search FK Island, pop Ponix to search Sacred Garunix
9: Summon Garunix, Pop Hazy Flame Cerbereus in deck
10: Use Cerb’s effect to search Hazy Flame Peryton
(Current Board: Engraver, SE-Ash, Sacred Garunix)
11: Link Engraver & Garunix into Fiendsmith’s Sequence
12: Sequence’s effect, shuffle back Moon & Requiem, summon Duke of Demise
13: Link Sequence & Ash into Promethean Princess
14: Revive any FIRE monster (except Ponix) with Promethean
15: Link Promethean & FIRE monster into Salamangreat Sunlight Wolf
Current Board: Salad Sunlight Wolf, Duke of Demise, FK Island/Sanctuary, Peryton in hand
16: Activate Duke of Demise’s effect, normal summon peryton to Sunlight wolf’s zone using Duke as tribute
17: Activate Sunlight wolf, add any FIRE back to your hand (except Ponix)
18: Activate Peryton, send Fire monster to summon 2 Hazy Flame Hydra
19: Overlay both Hydra to summon Evolzar Lars, use both Hydra’s effect to attach Peryton and Cerb
Current Board: Salad Sunlight Wolf, 4mat Evolzar Lars (3 negate), FK Island/Sanctuary
20: Activate Duke of Demise’s effect, add Engraver back to hand
21: Activate Engraver, search Fiendsmith Tract, use Tract to search/summon Fabled Lurrie
22: Activate Engraver’s GY effect, shuffle back sequence to summon
23: Activate Tract’s GY effect, fuse Engraver & Lurrie to summon Fiendsmith Lacrima
24: Activate Lacrima, summon back Engraver, overlay into rank 6 (i.e. Wave King High Caesar)
Final board state: Salad Sunlight Wolf, Lars (3 negate), Caesar (2 summon negation), Promethean & Sacred Garunix in GY.
That's up to 7 varied disruptions off of a single normal summon. That's not OK, is it?
@@F3XTBear with me on this one (This particular one is OCG only, as you need Duke of Demise):
1: Normal Summon SE-Ash, search Poplar
2: Summon Poplar, search OSS
3: Link Poplar into Relinq. Anima, place in S/T
4: send Ash and Poplar to GY to summon SE-Oak, revive Ash
5: Link Oak and Anima into Moon of the closed heaven, then Fiendsmith Requiem
6: Tribute Requiem for FS Engraver, equip Requiem
7: Activate OSS, send requiem to summon Ponix from deck
8: Search FK Island, pop Ponix to search Sacred Garunix
9: Summon Garunix, Pop Hazy Flame Cerbereus in deck
10: Use Cerb’s effect to search Hazy Flame Peryton
(Current Board: Engraver, SE-Ash, Sacred Garunix)
11: Link Engraver & Garunix into Fiendsmith’s Sequence
12: Sequence’s effect, shuffle back Moon & Requiem, summon Duke of Demise
13: Link Sequence & Ash into Promethean Princess
14: Revive any FIRE monster (except Ponix) with Promethean
15: Link Promethean & FIRE monster into Salamangreat Sunlight Wolf
Current Board: Salad Sunlight Wolf, Duke of Demise, FK Island/Sanctuary, Peryton in hand
16: Activate Duke of Demise’s effect, normal summon peryton to Sunlight wolf’s zone using Duke as tribute
17: Activate Sunlight wolf, add any FIRE back to your hand (except Ponix)
18: Activate Peryton, send Fire monster to summon 2 Hazy Flame Hydra
19: Overlay both Hydra to summon Evolzar Lars, use both Hydra’s effect to attach Peryton and Cerb
Current Board: Salad Sunlight Wolf, 4mat Evolzar Lars (3 negate), FK Island/Sanctuary
20: Activate Duke of Demise’s effect, add Engraver back to hand
21: Activate Engraver, search Fiendsmith Tract, use Tract to search/summon Fabled Lurrie
22: Activate Engraver’s GY effect, shuffle back sequence to summon
23: Activate Tract’s GY effect, fuse Engraver & Lurrie to summon Fiendsmith Lacrima
24: Activate Lacrima, summon back Engraver, overlay into rank 6 (i.e. Wave King High Caesar)
Final board state: Salad Sunlight Wolf, Lars (3 negates), Caesar (2 summon negations), Promethean & Garunix in GY.
I think that it's fine if the combos are all within an archetype, which means that the ceiling is set by the deck's archetypes or is restricted in ways that make it so that it can't be so incredibly explosive. Take Kashtira (post Diablosis ban but pre-Ariseheart ban) for example.
That deck can one-card combo with Kashtira Unicorn, but its main end board is somewhat flexible but can't deviate much from Ariseheart + Shangri-Ira or double Ariseheart if the other 4 cards in your hand are non-engine hand traps. I think one card combos should be individually assessed not in their power, but in how they interact with particular cards to create their end boards as well as what those end board cards should be.
A deck feels much more interesting if the things it is doing are within the scope of the deck's archetype and flavour instead of doing basically anything you want it to. I do appreciate how some archetypes can interlock and create new strategies, but there has to be more forethought and planning involved to avoid the current mess we have now with Fiendsmith.
I'm tired of decks like Kashtira and Melodious being excused just because there is something stronger now. Kash and Melodious can both play around 15 hand traps, is that really ok?
My favourite Deck is Dogmatika, and i love that every Card locks me out of the extra Deck. Restrictions Are a good thing in ygo. They give the Deck a personality and put a clear ceiling on the Deck.
A thought that occurred watching this.
Are triangle formats the best formats for both players and konami?
Gives players a choice of decks/play styles that are designed to balance each other out. For Konami it increases sales as players acquire products to chase archetypes (theoretically).
I know it's kind of an idealist cut but perhaps the healthiest for both parties?
I think my line with card combos is when 3 hand traps aren't good enough. If I have to play above 15 hand traps thats stupid because not all decks can make space for 15 hand traps and I think having to run 20 is to much. Decks shouldn't be so resilient that we need 4+ hand traps because not only does having 20 hand traps cut into our space for additional engines but 20 spaces isn't consistently possible by the majority of decks. My Branded deck makes use of Fusion Duplication so I can afford 15 non-engine. When you can't even find the space to find room for the amount of non-engine needed to stop a deck like Snake-Eyes in a 40 card deck the games got issues. For Branded 15 hand traps is possible. But 20 hand traps isn't. I don't even know if any of the games good rogue decks can have 20 hand traps. This is why for decks like Branded my non-engine is simple. 3 Dark Ruler, 3 Nibiru, 3 Ash Blossom, 3 Imperm, 3 Veiler. If I play s deck like White Woods I swap Dark Ruler for Droplet. This exact line up is made to efficiently combine hand traps and board breakers and give no room for my opponents to breath.
off topic, but what is the website that josh used in this vid? looks clean
Back then we needed 4 monsters to summon one (S.S dragon)
Now to summon the entire deck = one card
I feel like a 1/1.5 card combo should at most end with 1 omni-negate, maybe an additional non omni-negate or interruption like a pop or spot removal, and a recovery play that isn't super broken, that feels balanced to me, dealing with 1 omni-negate, plus an additional negate or interruption doesn't feel overpowered for a 1/1.5 card combo, hell I would even argue 1 omni-negate, 1 non omni negate & 1 interruption it's still pretty balanced since there's a lot of card that can breakthrough that, the problem starts when 1 card leads you to 1-2 omni negates, 2+ monster negates, 2+ interruptions, and full combo recovery as well, between Mathmech and Plants before their hits, although the Mathmech board with just Circular was pretty strong, I feel like Plants were more annoying and hard to deal with, and while I do think they're both really strong, they were way easier to manage compared to what Snake-Eye & Yubel are doing right now with the Fiendsmith engine, and Snake-Eye will also get the Azamina cards now which makes it even more broken.
"Make good card, and do not make bad card"
Thanks Josh.
1 card combos that require discards are the best kind of one card combos imo even if deck building purists hate cards that replace 1 card with your strongest engine card.
The point about 1 card combos not killing you is also very correct
The best examples provided in the video that agree to this are branded fusion and primera in an MD environment.
Branded still has nadir servant as another one card combo, which can also sanctifire ftk. Not to mention if they’re mixed with chimera they have multiple other one card combos
my problem with branded fusion is like shown in the MD ver of branded with it at 1. its such a key point in the deck that most of the time the deck is just doing things to search it and how they can just usually get away with setting up a board just to search it, i know its not 1:1 but its like how fiendsmith and snake eyes work where fiendsmith can just setup a board while setting up fire princess revivie snash
one thing about interacting with choke point is that it makes yugioh a literally a knowledge-check game. Not knowing what the choke point is, or waiting into a negate will just lose you the game straight up
"5-10 formats from now, they gonna wish it was Mathmech... 5-10 formats from now, they gonna miss Circular"
Well I've seen what Malice looks like. It isn't a 60 card cyberse pile deck but it still does everything with the extra deck that you hate and with Bystials banishing Red Ransom after Nibiru is special summoned and the traps banishing Red Ransom in the same chain as Nibiru and special summoning Red Ransom after the chain resolves the only way to even have a chance of stopping them from making a board is Ghost Ogre or if you get lucky when negating their normal summon. They made the extra deck have more room by making most of the Malice extra deck monsters one ofs through allowing you to summon them from banished leaving uncommon removal options such as Knightmare Unicorn as your only out. In the grind your Bystials are 1 card Apallousas' and I:P is a cyberse monster.
Remember when union hanger was broken? That was the perfect time for yugioh 2017/2018 imo it went downhill since the Zoo/Spyral formats
After toss it was never the same again 😮💨 slowly got worse and worse and early 2022 i quitted
Toss was peak.
This man is gaslighting you, Mathmech and Plant Link have super obvious choke points (Alembertian and Dryas) that cripple the deck if they don't open enough extension, and even then its a uphill battle since they have to burn through their hand and ED to do so.
Edit: 7:33 a magnamhut turns off mathmech's s/t and omni-negate (magnamhut in end of main phase, eff on end phase, search druiswurm, druiswurm eff at the draw phase). You end up with 2 bodies on field against a mangled ass mathmech board. At this point you are only losing to handtraps and thats not mathmech's fault.
List of cards that hose Mathmech for the entirety of its existence: Inperm on circular search, droll, shifter, any DD crow like card, ghost belle. I have named like 10+ cards josh Is coping mathmechs end board is completely fine. Bring my boy circular back
I think something like spright starter is the sweat spot. It burns you, locks you into a restriction, if it gets stopped pushes you into a 2 card combo (even thou skilled people won't stop it).
Ratpier might be okay in a format where Rank 4s are powercrept out of relevance. But considering that one of the new deckbuilds is SPECIFICALLY designed for Rank 4 toolboxing, that's not going to happen for a LONG time.
The issue isn't 1 card combos though, it's end boards that put out more than what's put in to make them. I don't care how many cards it takes, if it takes your entire hand but you end up refilling the whole thing with hand traps AND still get to make a board there's something inherently unfair going on there, especially since interrupting individual pieces of that setup would still likely be met with extenders, canceling out that loss while the opponent still spends their cards on interaction.
If anything we need to move away from this whole "discard cards hoping your opponents' turn ends" nonsense and find some new ways to either dirsupt or gain advantage off an opponents' end board, especially while they're making it. Rescue-ACE having their monsters all act as in-archetype hand traps that let you add cards and/or summon monsters while the opponent was in the process of setting up help with putting up enough that you won't autolose to an established board, but required building the deck in a specific way that limited how often generic tech choices were seen so they weren't popular enough to remain in regular usage because part of the issue is that non-archetypal cards are TOO STRONG, when it's the opposite that should be true. This leads to generic end boards, the same six or so overused hand traps shoved into everything as standard (last ditch going second, overkill going first) disruptions, and a VERY small set of board breakers being utilized.
Oh boy, i can't wait til we have half card combos. imagine what that would look like.
@ ignisters is a deck that has that same 1 card combos plus follow up, bring out big board but it does it in a way that’s very easily stopped by things like droll or shifter. With other handtraps it might still have the right cards so you can keep playing. The deck is similar to marincess in the way that it also locks you and isn’t as oppressive as other decks with 1 card combos but also has a variety of end boards you can have. The deck is a good example of why 1 card combos can be good put has a line to be stopped at some point.
My opinion is that a 1 card combo should be able to play through all 40 cards of your deck. I would be perfectly fine with that. As long as the end board pieces that come from that combo are balanced, it literally doesn't matter how long and elaborate your 1 card combo is.
1 card combos are only a problem because people can end on like 7 negates if left unchecked. By balancing end boards, you directly balance combos.
Nah, I don't want to sit and watch my opponent eat a quarter of our total match time on their one turn, I don't care what they end on
There isn’t a single deck that ends on 7 negates. At most right now you can get a 3-4 material Apollousa and Dies Irae with Fiendsmith SE if you open exceptionally well and don’t get interrupted at all.
@@dariuspenner2528I think that person is just using "negate" as general term for disruptions. I hope that is the case at least
I think we're currently lack cards that can function as board breaker. and also these days combo deck have too much recursion where old combo decks trade-off extending their combo but having a hard time coming back when their board is broken.
this is exactly it, board breakers trade off too much consistency, and commiting to a big board doesnt lose you anything.
full power zoodiac would be so fair in this format
I remember when you could play super heavy samurai, one card combo into literally playing calamity dragon on your opponent's standby phase to negate every card they have. Sadly, they limited all those on card combos.