Trapper is really hard cuz u gotta prep thinking ahead of time and if things dont go they way u planned. It is a 4 minute game with all gens popping up LUL
@@renarenacat You have the entire map to place your traps and you gotta hope they get value. That's being hard to play if your power is able to be used on every spot on the entire map.
And the Devs gave billy a cooldown because a few players were a little to good with him but nurse stays the way she is. Billy is extremely hard to learn, yet he had to suffer so damn much and nurse just "deserves" to be the way she is.
Billy and blight are by far the highest skill caps. In my opinion, the people saying nurse is the hardest. I've been convinced for years that's just an excuse to justify how fuckin busted she is, you don't need mind games or anything. Most brain dead killer next to leather.
In my experience i kinda disagree. For me the hardest to learn was nurse by far. Billy was always a basic bitch for me. He is easy to play and to achieve good results. Not much skill here for me. Bubba is the much harder chainsaw killer for me. But its just personal experience with them.
Not sure i buy billy being hard so much as he got gutted. His power not only got nerfed to be more awkard and janky but now billy saw simply dosent work on a a lot of the loops and maps. Some many maps have been redesigned to have so much clutter and crap that even a god billy cant navigate without stopping and starting the chainsaw sprint. Curves are legitimately impossible in a lot of situations unless your right on top of the survivor. I guess you can argue hes hard because of this because your fighting this uphill battle. Billy dosent curve like he used to and its very clearly visible they massively overdid it on his nerfs. But hey if you guys wanna show me billys got that potential to be great hit up a few dbd games with him bring his play rate up and show the community hes still good.
@@zarathos888 Billy Main here.. what you said isnt really true.. if you got the timing and muscle memory down you can curve 80-90% of all loops (with engravings even really tricky or long ones)
@@jo.cbr125 Core problem with that how long does it take to get to those positions and how does it make sense for his power to go on cooldown the worse you are at playing him? I just have a hard time believing this since well if that was the case why dosent these billies show up in any of my games. Even during the billy archive he rarely showed up and not once did I get hit by a cool curve billy. Again I want to be proven wrong but if even scott is struggling to play billy then who is this killer meant for? The call of action is there lets see more billies in dbd.
i personally dont think its that impressive, tbf tho i am relatively young so i could have a much easier time learning purely technical inputs as opose to having good game sense because of that
I’m glad someone recognizes how much effort it takes to learn curvebilly. Especially me trying to do it on Xbox. Was quite the dark ages of my killer career.
@@spartan11715 For me who played console for a long time, I definitely agree with this. Learning to curve is much easier on Controller, but once you learn MnK Billy it's easier to be more precise.
Billy is the hardest without a doubt, but that's mostly because he's been the king of high effort/low reward since his nerf, and BHVR keeps making maps that are absolutely miserable for him, which is why nobody plays him these days.
I play Billy just because scary banjo chainsaw man is dope. I can only land long range saws on idiots (I'm playing console) and close range is just for Gross camping (only 2% of competent survivors are ever in a position to get back revved) I just play him with save the best for last, I usually come in last hoping for the best.
@@Klausinator451 The problem is that you're still better off playing Blight even if you can't use his power well in chase, or just pick Bubba for easy insta down mechanic, especially if you're playing on console.
@@kilzfordays The difference is that it's hard to win with Trapper because his power sucks, but there's nothing hard about looking at the ground and holding a button to set traps. With Billy you need surgical precision/timing and you can still get juked or bump into a random ass invisible pixel.
I tried curvebilly on console at my friends house and, going from pc, it’s definitely very difficult. I was able to pull off some results by setting sensitivity to max, but no where near as efficiently as I do on pc. Luckily my friend isn’t that good at the game so the lower mmr gave me enough time to fail some curves and not get heavily punished by it, but playing Billy on controller requires even more effort than he does normally
I found you because of Elden Ring but your in depth knowledge of DBD has kept my attention somehow despite me never playing this game. I appreciate the passion I suppose 🤘
If youre interested in more DBD, he has vods on twitch and tons of stream highlight videos that go years back. It's a great little repository of DBD knowledge and game play.
Billy, not only do you need insane mechanical skills, need to understand his unique mind games but he also becomes much harder to play against people who understand how to play against him. Nurse doesn't have any of that.
@@splix3012 I have looped nurses many times, but I don't think it's because I know how, it's more because of the Nurse do not know how. Nurse has literal no counter play, even at corners and you try to mind game, Nurses who fall to the mind game might lose, but she does not have to play your mind game, she blinks to the corner, if you are there she hits you, if you keep running, she can blink again and hit you, there's no other way. you just need to know what options survivors have against Nurse, and in all situations, there are only 2 options, and the nurse can use 2 blinks to negate both options and hit you
@@jR0xas no, he's right. Nurse can't read your mind still. If you run around that corner, she doesn't know what you will do from there. She can only make a guess. Coldwind Farm is a MISERABLE map for her. Because once you can go ANY direction and she can't really tell if you're committing to it or not. The issue on most maps against her is finding her weak spots. On The Game, for example, the ENTIRE top level is super safe against her. Every time she charges up, just run back at her. If/when she does her 2nd charge, do the same thing. She can't blink in place in those. Also, something I rarely see people do is round a corner, step outside of attack range from the door, and then stop. This is REALLY hard for her to answer. Because if she charges her blink, you body into her. If she doesn't, you run until she does. Fake a run back at her, then double back...there's still a lot of mind gaming to have with her. It's just...different because you two can mindgame with full visibility on one another.
@@brendonw456 i tried bringing up the second floor counterplay and got kinda shredded for it by chat on stream, which gives me the impression alot of people don't understand nurses nuances and dont care to develop counterplay
THANK YOU, I get sick of hearing people justify so much BS with nurse just because she requires a few more brain cells than other killers to initially learn
@@midnightttemp821 I don't think her power alone is broken it's some of her addons that make her so broken. Without any addons her power is strong but manageable for survivors.
If you're bad at them yeah they'll be shit but you see killers like Dowsey that can go on 200+ win streaks and be only defeated by the most insane and cracked survivors I've seen since Team Oracle lol
There are two types of Billy's in my experience. GIGACHAD Billy that has total control of the match from the moment they enter. And then every other Billy that will let everyone bleed out because they couldn't get a down for 4 gens.
What about the baby back to hook Billy’s. They used to be a thing years ago. Not sure about these days. I remember the blue eyed little guys. Hook, chainsaw away, then wait for an unhook or see someone goin for it and come straight back for the down.
twigs are the enemy man. just to help you out witht the curves: certain cars have very little collision, benches have very little collision, and the giant truck thing on ormond has very little collision. all this allows you to hug those objects tightly for better curving. Sofareks has a great tutorial on it, have fun! Edit: just wanted to say that turning up your controller sens in the settings turns up the sens for the initial turn speed with the saw. This tip is actually for PC, i know i said controller sens but you can watch OhTofu's vid on billy, he will say the same thing. I dont know if it works on console too but it might
@@sqflex7466 I'll take lerys, good practice for hooking around tight corners, but garden.. I'll line up the perfect shot, clip a twig, then be able to just walk straight through the twig anyway. I've lost my shit live repeatedly because of it lmao.
@@aidanmcguire3096 it works on pc too man. i also play on pc. for some reason turning up controller sens raises the initial turn speed. im not fucking with you man
"Basically Billies are all chads, end of story." I feel validated for wanting to play Billy on Switch. I can't curve very well, but from time to time I can snipe a survivor across the map with the chainsaw sprint!
@@Seoul_Soldier hell yeah he is, successfully doing it feels awesome! Once you get good at it too itll make certain tiles way easier and yield better results in general if youre going for a win. Source: i am a curvebilly
I think difficulty in this game can be expressed in three quantities: how easy a Killer is to get into and get some level of success with (the skill floor), how much skill it takes to master the Killer from top to bottom (the skill ceiling) and how unforgiving the Killer is of player mistakes. Nurse has the highest skill floor, Blight has the highest skill ceiling, and in terms of how unforgiving a Killer is of mistakes it's gotta be Twins. No other Killer in the game can lose not just a chase but a whole map's worth of distance from a single missed attack, or get punished so hard by perks that other Killers legitimately don't care about like Exponential or WGLF as part of regular gameplay. Billy isn't at the absolute top in any of those three metrics but is really high in all three, so I'd agree he's the hardest.
@@colin8923 You clearly have never played twins? Its super easy to bait a pounce, whereas Billy requires perfect timing of the chainsaw if you want to 99 it and then curve. Victor gets kicked but you can just put hin out a couple seconds later. Twins has a very slug heavy playstyle and can snowball like no other. Maybe you should play Twins more bud
@@The_Red_Zealot yeah but i think you missed the point where victor can get pretty far away during chase and if he gets kicked thats basically the chase lost, no coming back since when u get over to where he was the survivor is long gone but as billy u can always just try another chainsaw
Yeah I found nurse really easy to play when getting into it was blight that took me weeks to learn how to play but that was pre buff when he first came out and it was on console
Yeah, Blight on console is extremely hard to get good with. If you want to do even close to decent, you have to crank your sens up to 100% and learn specific flick timings and such. I didn't even play Blight on console pre-buff, but I can imagine it was miserable with that ~30 degree flick angle.
Blights the only killer people say you need a mouse for that I can actually play well on console. Billy... No. Huntress....no. deathslinger, definitely no.
I've been saying this for a while. I think that's why you'll constantly see people saying that every nurse is either trash or cracked. They ain't cracked, they just got the hang of her power that's it. I'm not a cracked nurse, but I can 4k with trash perks and no add ons almost every time. Once you know how to play her, she's the easiest killer to win with in the game cause looping becomes optional, and pallets/windows actually benefit you. That being said, nurse with no add ons ain't too bad. You can somewhat counter her by spreading out, hammering gens, and holding w since she's slow asf and the base blinks don't go THAT far.
I think if the nurse didnt had any recharge addons and maybe a little bit more base cd on her blink not much but just a tiny bit that could actually make her more in line because than fucking up a blink actually would give a large amount of distance to the survivor wich than results in the ability to hide away more easy. It would basicly just make her counterplay of loosing line of sight an actuall counterplay and not just give you 3 more seconds to live.
I'll repeat what I said in a forum post once because it seems it's similar to what's said in this video "People really overestimate how difficult it is to get good at nurse. It does take time and effort and skill and muscle memory because I mean I've gone through the pain of learning her myself way back when I would actually play her, but the ratio of skill floor to strength is way more balanced on a killer like blight, who I would 100% argue without a doubt in my mind has a harder power to learn and master than nurse, but nurse gives much higher results despite this in terms of her strength even though she's unable to play chases normally if she's struggling to use her power unlike a blight. In fact other killers like hag and arguably hillbilly are much harder to perform well with, and yet get much lower overall results than the nurse, which is why she needs another nerf/rework."
Keeping aside omega-blink, because I agree its OP, what is it about nurse that people say needs rework. Other than the, she doesn't follow the mechanics of DBD, which I think is a bs argument since most of these people don't want killers to camp, tunnel or play toxic, which are mechanics of the game. Like for me, I don't want her nerfed at all because she is truly the only killer who can keep up with the best of the best survivors, and when someone says killers like Hillbilly or Hag have way more skill involved with much worse results, all I can think of is to buff Hillbilly and Hag so that they perform better than nurse. I think skill should be rewarded and so, difficult killers should perform better than say, not so difficult killer like Nurse. Nerfing nurse isn't gonna help with the Hillbilly or the Hag situation, it'll only make it so like Spirit, we will have a very strong A tier killer, who can't keep up with the best of the best. Maybe its just my killer sided brain, but when I think of killers like Trapper or Huntress underperforming for their skill in comparison to the Nurse, I think of buffing them rather than nerfing Nurse.
@@uzayrbombaywala8314 I hear "Nurse shouldn't be touched because she's the only killer that can compete with the best survivors" often and it's a confusing mindset to me. You rightly point out a flaw in the game's balance (most killers can't keep up with efficient survivors), but your solution (just leave Nurse in the state she's in so *someone* can compete with them) does nothing to actually address the flaw. It's equivalent to BHVR adding Shattered Hope as a "counter" to boons. It doesn't bring survivors more in line or make weaker killers stronger. We should be aiming to make *every* killer a viable pick. I don't think it's possible to buff any other killer to Nurse's level, though, so I think she should be brought down to the level of other killers instead. If, after that, it turns out that killers really can't compete without an ability that lets them ignore fundamental game mechanics, that's indicative of other killers needing buffs, (more likely) survivors needing nerfs, or something else needing rebalancing like map design.
@@uzayrbombaywala8314 So the solution to "nurse is the only killer able to keep up with good survivors' is "make nurse the only viable killer on the roster so everybody is forced to play them" ????? Nurse shouldn't blink through stuff. SHe should have collision with her blinks. thats how you balance her. Still a high mobility killer with a high skill ceiling but isnt just an autowin because people cant escape you.
@@JudojugsVtuber the last part doesn't make any sense, taking out the ability to teleport through stuff with nurse is literally making her a worse blight. The nurse is fair as she is rn, it's impossible to make a game perfectly balanced, there will be always an awful killer and a powerful killer, instead of nerfing nurse, buff other killers to make them somewhat better and put more skill requirement into some killers that require less, like Michael for example he should have a buff or a rework that makes him stronger by default and some skill requirement that comes into play
I think a big part of why curve billy is so rare is because people don't want to go through those growing pains of learning it. I still remember when i was first learning how to curve, I had to learn timings to know when to start revving and I did this at every loop to learn when and where. I remember not knowing about Controller sensitivity being how to increase initial turn speed (also kinda works with blight but not the same). I remember the countless, hundreds, thousands of times I bumped into Macmillan trees, Eyrie Twig bushes, Windows, Garden of Joy hitboxes, or just random fucking walls and losing game after game after game because it took so much effort for so little payoff. But after so much time committed I finally was able to be even a *good* curve billy. By no means the best, but good enough to be confident in every chainsaw i attempt and knowing when and who to not bother trying to. Then theres nurse. Took maybe a day or two to get muscle memory and then maybe a week to understand how to stop overblinking and stop trying to predict too much. Had maybe 10 or 15 hours on killer before I learned her, and with just Nurse and corrupt I was able to push myself from rank 20 (ages ago now) to rank 1 within maybe a day or so. But yeah, sure, Nurse is hard i guess. /s
I think one thing that makes nurse considered hard to play as well is the fact that you cannot rely on basic M1 strat whatsoever. Most killers you can still M1 if you get completely flustered and start messing up their ability too much. So with blight you still have the option to run down a survivor (the same with billy), that's not really an option for nurse. So I believe that the frustrations of learning her blink, mixed with the fact that if you get flustered, then you are fucked just makes her hard for people to want to keep playing as well.
@@evanmelendez0627 Exactly, the hardest part is actually sticking through it and not letting the survivors get to you, which is difficult because we all want to bully nurses whenever we get the chance lol
Learning Nurse & Blight took me a little bit longer but i still got the hang of them pretty fast. The Killers that really took me long to get the hang of it where Clown, Oni and Billy (still need to learn Oni and Billy). For Clown was the problem for me to learn the Arch, throw distance and when and where to use his bottle right. For Billy to use his chainsaw midchase and for Oni to when and how to use his dash.
Once you understand nurse's jank and can reliably "overblink" through certain geometry you can pretty much just spin your mouse around and get free hits from your lunge and auto aim. Very difficult indeed...
Even with the whole “oh nurse is hard so that excuses OP stuff”, there shouldn’t be OP stuff because then there’s no counterplay so there is nothing you can do when you do go against a skilled nurse (or maybe below average because of the OP nature), that’s like saying “oh this killer is hard to play so that’s why he’s allowed to have busted add ons that take little effort to take use of, like alchemists ring, which needs you to do the shocking thing of “getting value out of your power” for its EXTREMELY GOOD upside, or blighted add ons, which are arguably worse than alchemists ting because you don’t even need to hit, because it’s literally “use your power”, a good blight can use these add ons and some perks and essentially be uncounterable, but because he’s hard that’s supposed to negate the fact that these already good killers have busted add ons that make them even more cracked? Not that blight needs a nerf, i main blight, but I agree, his best add ons are way overtuned and prolly should be toned down, even a little bit, alchemists ring mainly, it’s kind of a catalyst for other addons to also be busted too
@@kdastronaut171 why are you trying to flip the issue on its head? The green medkit, BT, DS, UB and whatever else is unfair against an average Clown, but completely justified against a Nurse or a batshit crazy flicking hugging Blight with alch ring. How about actually bringing down the killers that dictate the meta to the level where everyone else is and then balancing survivor stuff accordingly?
@@kdastronaut171 yes…I’m aware, but in my comment I’m talking about killer specifically, as the video is about “the hardest killer to play” and I have more experience as killer, with some survivor, and yes, I’m aware circle of healing exists, and yes it should be nerfed or idk, not stack with medkits at least to stop dumb self healing (though I think altruistic heals should still count, as it requires more than 1 survivor) However, I’d consider CoH to be the only broken survivor perk, other perks are mainly just “prevents not fun scenario from happening, like being camped, tunnelled, slugged or…all of the above”, which shouldn’t be viable strategies in the first place (they aren’t fun after all)
@@dungeaterfancam The shit survivors have/had was absolute. It's so easy to counter Nurse. Just run around. Make her fuck up but y'know you need your deadhard LOL
Billy: Has to know hitboxes of every object in the game, know how to curve and flick chainsaw just to not bump into a wall. Survivors who play against Billy: I run, I hug wall, I win. hehe They should honestly make Hillbilly easier to play.
I like that he is hard, but it's easy to fix billy and make him fair and strong again. Lo pro chains by basekit... Less bumping punishment on him, A little bit of steering, since curving is counterable by pre-dodging... Some little improvements on his useless addons
I'd love it if they made the meme addon give him double rev speed and half collision duration. That'd at least make learning him easier. (The half damage one)
@@zant2146 if anything there should be an overheat Mechanic on generators if you do em at 500% speed lol. "Survivors are inflicted with the 4th degree burn status effect, any survivor action involving hands is brought to 0.01% progress speed." No seriously, overheat is dumb as hell. Then again...............better idea than nerfing twins at least....
Lo pro as base could be a decent idea to buff him. Honestly all he needs is to remove his heat mechanic. Maybe they could also put yellow engravings on to doom engravings so it frees up another add on slot
Hillbilly, Blight and Pinhead have the highest skill ceiling’s in the game imo Billy and Blight more so than Pinhead I’d also argue Huntress and Oni are there if I was to make a top 5 Twins and slinger right behind them
Huntress objectively has the highest skill ceiling imo. (I know, oxymoron, lol), same with trickster to some degree. Huntress could theoretically just cross map people over and over and over and end the game in like 20 seconds every time at max skill. Also hag and trapper. Trapper is a close second actually. Perfect predictive skills can make a game end instantly(this is super infeasible, but possible.) basically, I think huntress and trapper have some of the highest "theoretical" skill ceilings.
@@billyjoelbeans Saying huntress OBJECTIVELY has the highest skill ceiling and then adding "imo" right after is so ironic. Im not sure if u understand wat objective means lol
@@billyjoelbeans Also saying hag and trapper has of some of the highest skill ceilings bcus u have to predict survivors is so retarded💀 figuring out common places for a survivors and placing traps there ain hard. A lot of that shit is passive. U choose where u wanna place it and then do it and wait, thats it. Too passive to be even considered for highest skill ceiling
@@dazai2734 Bro, are you slow??? I literally said theoretical. And you have the nerve to be that presumptuous. Likewise, I said "I know, oxymoron". I literally clarified both of your braindead points. Idk what your deal is. Its possible to perfectly predict and trap all 4 survivors, simultaneously, with brick, to get close to 4 instant kills barring unbreakable type perks as well as it. Its near impossible in practice ofc. But its still something he CAN do. Not WILL do. A ceiling is by definition the highest possible thing to reach. It IS his skill ceiling. Not practical skill ceiling, that's a different thing, but it is the ceiling. its the only thing to discuss if you aren't regarding practicality. And btw, bc you clearly have the lexical grace of a toddler: oxymoron: a figure of speech in which apparently contradictory terms appear in conjunction (e.g. faith unfaithful kept him falsely true ).
BIllys are all Chads. It's such a shame it's so hard to get good results with him because he is such a fun killer to face as a survivor. The chases much more thrilling when the guy can whip around a corner at mach speeds with pinpoint accuracy. It leads to fun mind games and sometimes odd pathing that wouldn't work against a standard killer but can buy you time against the curve. Whereas against nurse you just hope they are still in the learning phase and get lost when you drop line of sight.
I would love a video where you just discuss/explore the concepts of skill floors & ceilings in way more depth, maybe not even just in dbd, more from a game design/philosophy perspective scott
It makes me happy to see that I've seemingly gone from being the minority to being in the majority when it comes to my opinion on Nurse. Used to only hear people talk about how fun Nurse is to face because shes such a "skillful killer" and all that. Nowadays people seem to agree more that Nurse really doesnt require a PHD or anything special to play.
This is something I’ve been saying for a while now. There are multiple killers that require a much higher understanding of how to use their powers than Nurse now, and the game is in such a better place health wise than it used to be, that Nurse should get some kind of drastic overhaul to her power. Her entire existence is bad for the games health, and her having literally no counter play makes going against her the most unfun games of DBD I have to sit through. Worse than Trickster, and that’s saying something
I first played DBD back in 2016, been keeping up with the game ever since then, and eventually started playing a couple of months ago. I picked Billy as my main out of nostalgia and it was fine at first, downing people left and right, doing some neat curves, sniping survivors across the map, but once I started getting higher MMR games, survivors became nigh untouchable. While Nurse breaks any existing mechanic in DBD and pretty much only requires you to master the Blink distance (also has an amazing training wheels add-on for this btw), whenever I play Billy, I feel like I need to do top-tier mind games, be omnipotent and omnipresent to put pressure, and it can be just not fun sometimes, especially after getting Eyrie of crows 4 times in a row. I still love Billy and always will thou ❤️
Me and my bro started playing dbd almost at the same time, 4 years ago to be exact. However, he only played nurse and he is really pog at her, me on the other hand, I was playing other killers and actually playing dbd no nurese by daylight. Then we decided to switch, it took me two weeks like one hour a day and I got really high win rate aka 4k but my bro give up on other killers and told me that " really hard to play normal aka normies killers than nurse"
For me the hardest killer in the game is Huntress. The insane amount of tile knowledge required to know every possible throwing spot in a given situation, the ability to predict exactly how your opponent is going to play around your hatchet, the mechanics required to perfectly arc it over obstacles to hit someone hiding behind it, the absolute misery that is being a 110 killer-I don’t think I’ll ever struggle with a killer as much as I do Huntress.
@@theshowstopper1968 mastery to a character isn't referring to the strength of the killer. If that was the case clown would he the hardest or some other low teir killer. Mastering a killer is more so a question of how difficult is it to fully be in tune with it. Such as information with nuisances or certain behaviors or strange mechanics. Nurse is one dimensional, she only requires the skill of being able to blink where you want with charge/angle, and the players movement. imho, blight is just a harder hill billy, and I've never played blight or against him. But from ky observations he does the samething hill bully does but in a way that relies on inconsistent mapping, both literally and shitty unreliable hitboxes
This is a genuinely great take. I'm a pretty okay killer and it took me maybe 2 weeks to consistently 3-4k with a slowdown heavy Nurse, then another week to just switch to chase perks/aura reading. I still can't reliably get more than a 2k on Billy or Blight and I don't really want to put in the time to learn them, whereas Nurse took a little bit of practice and like... one warm up chase when I want to play her again.
I truly loved the days when Billy was the king, however Behavior truly did outright kill him and his add-ons. The overheat mechanic is truly stupid, and worse on top of that, they changed most of his add-ons to revolve around the overheat mechanic. Even if they help the actual chainsaw, none of them genuinely help
nurse dbd and sniper tf2 are the same: high skill floor, but once you hit that skill floor you've also hit the skill ceiling, leading to funny balance problems
I agree that nurse isn't the hardest and I definitely agree that she needs an addon nerf but 2:35 just isn't true. You still have to learn to blink smart. You have to learn to blink at corners, you have to understand the survivor double back mindgame when doing long blinks, you have to understand to blink at the floor or wait for fatigue when a survivor gets too close, and you have to predict a lot on any tight indoor map. I'm probably missing some other things too but blink timing isn't the only thing to learn on her.
What does that mean "you have to learn to blink at corners." You don't learn anything. You just..do that. That's the only correct safe way to play Nurse. That's a one-game learning curve. There is no survivor double-back mindgame if you blink at the corner where you lost sight of them. That's what the second blink is for-correcting the first one.
Blinking at corners might be a simple thing to do but it's still something that you have to know to do. I mainly brought it up because you mentioned moonwalking, which is also something that doesn't have to be explicitely practiced/learned as well but is still something that you have to know to do that adds to complexity. And when I mentioned the double back mindgame I was more referencing out in the open or after the first blink around a corner. Depending on the distance and addons, you can't just get a guaranteed hit if a survivor makes the right read. Like I said, I agree that nurse isn't the hardest killer, but during 2:35 you kinda phrase it like nurse is purely mechanical which isn't true. She still has other things to learn about her.
Glad you made this video and that’s definitely the best way to explain nurse I’m still fairly new to dbd but I don’t like to play nurse because it’s not that fun after I figured out the blinks after like 8 games. Personally I think that the dredge is high up there in skill ceiling it feels like he has a lot of potential but idk am still a newer player
thank you for making this video, I completely agree. blight is so hard to learn, but mastering billy's power is also very hard to do but can be very rewarding.
So glad to see Billy get some attention for once, I absolutely love playing as/against him. Maybe we shall see some new Billy mains off the back of this video :D
Imo Hillbilly is by far the hardest killer to play. The curving aspect and the punishable nature of his kit makes his skill ceiling insanely high. I’ve played a lot of Blight over the last 2 years and while I do think Blight holds a high ceiling for skill and there is so much to learn about his kit; even when you feel like you’re missing hits with Blight; you can still maintain somewhat control on the match. I’m not sure if the same can be said about Billy and that’s why I respect the shit out of those high skill Billy mains out there and I hope to be able to dedicate some time in the near future to master his kit myself.
Me after getting effortlessly hooked 3 times in the middle of the match by a godlike omega blink nurse in the first few minutes of the match with 0 counterplay: "Well at least she was really hard to play"
Good video. Yes the skill floor for Billy is lower than Nurse but the skill ceiling is much higher. Honestly if they made it so none of Nurse's addons made her blink movement faster and whenever she was blinking through a falling pallet she got stunned, she wouldn't be so awful.
See this is my issue with Scott, most of what he said is simply false “Nurse ignores game mechanics”: no she does not she just interacts with them differently, and while a pallet isn’t nearly as scary to her she also has to take every structure , bush, wall and tree into account as it affects how far she can blink in any given moment “All you need to learn is her charge times”: Again this is wrong , knowing how far you can blink with a charge is step 1, you need to know releative survivor speeds when you can’t see them, tile layout, you need to read the survivors juking tactics , you need to know what you can or can’t blink through , how to handle top floor blinking, and you need to learn this on every map and every tile in the game. “Blight is harder than nurse” Again based on what? Much of what blight must track nurse must too, the difference is blight can chase like any 115 killer if he has to, with nurse it’s all or nothing on her power, while blight has to be learned as well nurse plays unlike anyone else in her level of power reliance “Billy is harder than any other killer” Now while I agree billy is harder than most killers to use his curving , I think his difficulty is also artificially boosted by just being a rather mediocre killer these days, he also doesn’t fare well with most of the new map setups, if he were in a proper spot he would be significantly more effective and not quite as difficult as a result Now as to the nurse and her addons , I’d be more than willing to debate on that , the idea she’s unstoppable by any metric is not really true at all and even in her prime she was still outweighed by good teams, now I’d be open to addon suggestions since that’s the main source of contention but I believe if there is a take a give us only fair in return so keep that in mind if you wish to discuss it
Blight is harder than Nurse because when a Blight gets to a thing that is on the map he needs to know how his power interacts with that specific object. Nurse just blinks through it no matter what it is and hits the survivor. You can blink through everything as long as it's not bigger than your blink range. This is literally the only skill you have to learn as nurse, besides predicting survivors, but simply using your first blink to get line of sight on them usually makes that redundant.
In chase Blight has it easier because Blight's recovery from missing a survivor -> go to another wall, hitting the wall -> go to another wall, pallet dropped -> pretend that pallet is a survivor and kill it, big thing may be when survivor dodges but you can definetely spend those 3-6 seconds on extra bounce to wait out DH or a dodge. that would never have big impact in a game where you absolutely have to manage every second of your time as killer.
The hardest killer is Billy, not for any mechanical reason, but for getting depressed having to think about how far from grace he’s fallen each time I start a match with him
When DbD was free on PS plus, I played Nurse with less than 30 hours and still managed to win most of my games She really isn’t that hard at all, at least for low-mid rank.
It also depends on what console you use. Using PC or a controller can make several killers much better/ worse to use. Like Nurse, Blight, Huntress, etc. Any killer that requires you to quickly aim on a strict time limit. Sometimes you need to make large movements, or even small subtle adjustments to your aim. You can do both of these with a mouse, but its harder with a thumbstick. But on the other hand, some killers require more of a game sense and better planning to use effectively. Like Trapper, Hag, Onryo, or even Oni and the Artist to an extent. Oni with keeping people injured, knowing where they are to fill your power. And Artist with using your power strategically to get use out of it with each cool down and pressuring survivors on gens with your crows while you chase another survivor. A bunch of other killers are more straightforward. Mostly some form of anti loop or a form of gen slow down. They can be hard to use effectively at high rank if you are going against good survivors. Easy to use mechanically, but can be hard to get value out of your power if it cant do much against good survivors. (Like Legion or Pig)
Before watching the video: In my opinion it is hag. Because good hags like coconut are scary but still not as scary as a god nurse and in my opinion they both take the same amount of time to master yet Hag has a lower payoff.
I think blight has a higher skill ceiling. Billy may be harder to win with, but I think that’s just cause he’s a bad killer. Blight has a few more things to learn than billy. I’d say billy has the 2nd highest skill ceiling though.
While I agree with the sentiment of this video, I think it should be noted that a major contributing factor to Billy's difficult learning curve is his add ons. With blight for example, you can learn everything about his power with no add ons. You already have the entirety of his movement ability right out of the box. The add ons people use are supplementary to his power, but don't fundamentally change the muscle memory of it. With Billy, you need engravings to really start curving like a madman. (At least from what I can tell.) Which significantly increases the cost of learning because you won't always have those add ons when you're new-intermediate with a killer
When I first started playing DBD seriously back in 2020, the first killer I even tried was Nurse because she sounded neat. The absolute hardest part about Nurse was just knowing how much you need to charge blinks to go where you want to go. Pressure and looping you don't even need to know any of that since you just ignore loops as a Nurse. I play survivor mostly these days and I hate going against a Nurse personally. There's things you can do to play around a Nurse but when that Nurse has a full meta build as well as double range/recharge, its damn near impossible to win unless that Nurse is completely new and is just mimicking what others do. The worst part about playing against a Nurse is that the fun part of DBD, looping, is completely gone and theres no looping a nurse unless she waddles constantly or seriously fucks up her blinks all the time. Maybe its just my own skill level showing but, whenever I go against Nurse, especially in solo queue, she often has 2 downs before we can even do a gen because there is no perfect way to play against her to mitigate her power. Example, against a nemesis you want to try and make him miss his tentacles as much as possible and keep him in tier 1 for as long as you can, as well as saving vaccines until he hits tier 3. Against a huntress you want to constantly block line of sight and try not to lock yourself into animations or you're a free hit to her. Against a blight you want to try and stay inside loops and shift to where he can't get an easy hit while he uses his power. Against a nurse you block line of sight and pray she doesn't blink on top of you where she can get a hit, or if she doesn't she has a 2nd blink to correct. Playing around pallets doesn't work against Omega Blink nurse since she blinks too fast to react to it most of the time and trying to run away when she fucks up blinks doesn't matter since she can get back to you in no time. Like I said, maybe its more on my own skill as a survivor but, for me its just not a fun game to play against a Nurse and its always "Okay, lets get this over with so I can play the actual game."
i hate people who say its fun going against "bad nurses" what is the fun part about it your just holding W and running arround like a headless chicken and you wont get hit i find it more boring going against a bad nurse than a good one and i hate going against good onces. i completly agree with your comment. i would say if they really wanna give nurse actuall counterplay remove her recharge addons, increase the cooldown of the blink slightly so that means breaking line of sight actually means something and gives you the ability to hide since a missed blink would give you atleast a good amount of distance.
I am a Nurse main and let me tell you, achieving "decend" results, yes it has a high skill floor and not a high ceiling. Getting to "good" with Nurse is really hard though, it´s not just mustle memmory. It´s knowledge over your mechanics and what the survivors are gonna do, it´s makro and finding a playstyle that fits your Nurse. Maybe you like to have bbq + make your choice, maybe you enjoy star struck or even a slugging playstyle. Everyone one of these is completly different from each other. I don´t agree that it´s just "mustle memmory and nothing more to it", theres a lot more and probably it´s because I´m Nurse main that I think saying something like that is not really respectful to people who train this Killer for a long time and get good with them, only to then hear smt among those lines. HOWEVER: Nurse should get a complete addon rework, except for some addons. In my opinion there shouldn´t be an addon that influences your 1. Recovery Speed, 2. Blink Distance, 3. Blink Window, 4. Blink Speed, 5. Fatigue, 6. Blink Number. Thinks that her addons could do: 1. Apply status to the Survivors after getting hit, 2. Apply status to the Nurse after hitting, 3. Increase lunge distance, 4. Maybe even apply nightfall vision to someone for an iri addon after getting hit, 5. Give the nurse a rough indicator on where injured people are (Would fit her theme, might be too strong). Saying shes hard is not an excuse for bringing broken stuff. Even a monkey can shoot with a gun and kill people, a sniper is just way better at it. Give her fun addons, not power altering ones, she doesn´t need those. gl hf guys ^^
I think most addons in the game should be reworked to be things that alter how the killers play. You want to play Dredge with a slugging playstyle? OK. Make an addon to stuff downed survivors in lockers and they can't recover in that state lol. Things like that. Another good addon design is Plague's Iridescent Seal where you gain Corrupt Purge every generator pop at the expense of duration.
@@Felix-hv1li Where did you get that? It can't be physically stronger than altering her power xD I never said make them addons strong. No status in the game is currently as strong as double range on her. Make fat breath apply blindness or smt. idk. everything BUT the broken stuff she currently has. It just shouldn't be tempered with her power is all
@@kilzfordays Yeah, kind of. The dredge thing might be a little stupid though if they can't bleed out/get picked up or out of the locker. The idea is good though, maybe give Survivors in the locker smt to do so they dont get bored like skill checks to recover a bit like doctor snap out, maybe.
@@parrot9210 Yeah, other survivors can get them out after a certain time and it just gives them skill checks like a yellow glyph or merciless storm to keep them busy. But the idea with addons can be applied to other killers. One I especially have my eye on is Clown. He lacks so much well deserved and much needed variation despite how fun he is to play. Having other creative and interesting bottle types could help. For example, you could have a bottle which allows for extra lunge distances within the gas or one that makes distractions and distorted volume for the survivors like doctor hallucinations. Alternatively I think a bubba addons that removes tantrum at the cost of having one less charge or something would be great. Once more, an addon for Pinhead where the chain hunt is active the whole match but is less active with 4 people in the trial but it disables the ability to pick up or teleport to the box.
Becasue nurse has a lot of depth to her, in my opinion people say nurse is way harder then she actually is but a lot of people say she doesn't have much to learn after learning the distances of blinks which I completely disagree with. And some nurse players in the comment section explain why. Learning stuff like building layouts for blinks, mind games based on distance, what to do based on suviours previous actions, reacting to movements suviours do while blinking, how to deal with different loops and how to deal with people breaking line of sight constantly on some maps. Nurse isn't as hard as hillbilly or blight imo but shes still harder then most killers in the game. She has more things to learn but these are some of the main things I thought of.
@@niceboy5559 they are just mad because so many people are saying their main does not require skill, (which is actually true) half of the arguments you just brought to the table are a problem with any killer (such as indoor maps or survivors mindgaming), and the other half are the same argument but worded different. "Learning stuff like building layouts for blinks, mind games based on distance, how to deal with different loops and how to deal with people breaking line of sight constantly on some maps." are just an extent of the same thing, which is namely, just learn to blink as a whole thing, and once you do that (which is not even that difficult) you are done. also i don't think blight requires skill either, he's just braindead gameplay. imo billy is by far the most difficult killer to play, by a lot.
Hey Scott, I know that tier lists are beaten to death at this point, especially for this game, but I would love to see one rating all of the killers' skill ceilings since that is something actually really relevant
I can't express how much joy it gives me to see Scott making a video saying something that I've always said since 2019 and now suddenly everyone in the community that once called me crazy now agrees with me.
One hundred percent agree Scott. Nurse is the hardest killer to pick up because like you said she doesn't play DBD so you have to learn that your breaking the rules and the memory of a blink but after a few hours in custom with a friend you've kinda learned all she has to her. Now that's not to discredit Nurse players, but Billy has always been frustrating for me to try and play consistently. Not only is he somewhat map reliant, where you want a more open map. But all the little techs and quirks he has, he's always been one of my favorite killers to just hop in play some matches cause it always feels like I'm learning with him.
As the hardest killer to master I would actually put oni in that spot. Not only do you have a limited amount of time to use your power, you also have to learn accurate 180 flicks and hit very precise movements. If you have never seen a godlike oni just watch lipy, then you know how hard he is to master.
take this with a little bias because im a billy main since over 4 years. but i find oni alot ALOT easier because once you got is base down he plays himself while even if you are a perfect billy its till up to the survivor if you get the downs if they know how to go against a curve billy when oni came out my results on him where easy the most 4k's i had with a new killer maybe because iam a billy main and they kinda do the same thing but i think oni controlls are alot easier and alot more forgiving because sometimes you dont even hit in the survivors direction and they still go down because of the massiv swing hitbox billy doesnt have you have to be really precice with him :D
@@ChaoZzBladex I completly get what you are saying but I meant to master not to play. Completly agree that billy is harder to play in the beginning because his controls are way less forgiving than oni's dash, but in my opinion at least, to truly master oni there is more of a learning curve than there is to billy
@@Charybdis47 im not so sure on that tbh for me personally oni was pretty easy but i guess everybody is different and also learns different stuff easier or harder :3 i mean oni can do a hell of alot of fun tricks and learning those yeah that takes time but still that all depends on the player i mean some probably can play nurse 1000 times and still suck because i just dont get the hang of it same with blight i guess its the same with billy and oni aswell :D just up to who wants to learn it
Nurse's down time between blinks, failed hits and her slow movement speed punishes more the mistakes of a player trying to reach the skill floor. She is sorta like twins in that regard, where playing with her power while learning it becomes a deterrent and a gatekeep for players. That is something im ok with since not every killer has to be easy to learn. Its also funny that new players (with no dlc) have access to some of the more weird killers to learn as a new player. Trapper may aswell be a killer that justs M1. Wraith changes the way how you aproach survivors and might become a crutch for new players. I agree with everything you say about billy, but also may add the limp he has during movement, I already talked about nurse and huntress is just so different to the rest. Also i may add that every killer that ranks lower in tier list by default becomes the hardest to play due to their performance
I was shocked how fast it was to learn nurse when i tried recently. I picked her up during anniversary event. The only skill is how far in a straight line are you going.
Good video and great points Scott. However, I think when people say a killer is hard to "play" they mean to get base value out of. They essentially ARE talking about the skill floor. In which case Nurse is still correct. I think that you're right that Billy is hardest to master, but these are separate arguments entirely, the hardest killer to pickup remains Nurse, and THAT is what people are talking about when they say she's hardest to play.
As someone who mains both Nurse and Billy: I fully agree! Nurse is not hard at all. And Hillbilly takes not only mechanical skill, but also map knowledge, game sense and most importantly: luck! Because you need luck to not get screwed by BHVRs phantom hits (you hit but it doesnt count) and weird invisible meshes that you bumb with your saw into.
There's a decent chance this has been discussed in another video, but this brings to mind the idea that while skill should obviously be rewarded, it can't overwhelm a game's internal balance. Letting one or two players who are truly amazing get to use tools that bypass the gameplay loop everyone else plays (by instantly killing opponents, for instance) might seem fine on paper but functionally lets 99.9% of players know that they'll never be "good" and that they can't compete with the best as they're not even playing the same game. I could be wrong, but I feel like Overwatch is a great example. Most folks were playing a team-focused shooter with abilities, relatively high TTK, and plenty of low skill characters that could still contribute to the team. Then, as the competitive community formed and the tournament scene took off, the demands of the highest level players quickly appeared to take overwhelming priority. This led to those "Starter Characters" getting reworked into more competitive variants, goofier aspects of the game getting flat-out removed in favor of more competitive ideas, and all this while the best of the best would still play characters like Hanzo and Genji and get to murder other players with impunity anyway. I basically stopped watching the tournaments when I noticed that the majority of match highlights were just an ulting Genji over and over and over. That's my take. The rapidly shrinking Overwatch community could be due to other factors as well, but that's certainly my take.
I've played almost all killers in the game, personally I have to say that the ones I find the hardest to play are Billy, Blight and Trapper (trying to predict where my traps will actually do something)
been thinking this for a while - billy feels so much harder to properly learn & execute mechanics with than any other killer, fucking up with billy is also really punishing on the other hand even an average nurse can do well with stuff like double recharge as there is barely any punishment for fucking up, she can also just ignore core gameplay elements which makes learning her way easier as there is literally only a single thing you have to learn which is how long to charge your blinks
I have to agree, I was terrified of playing as Nurse when I first started playing killer, so I didnt touch her for a long time. But, when I DID give her a go, it took me a couple of days to get used to her, and then she easily carried me to rank 1. Playing as Billy on the other hand has always been foreign to me, and I still only really chainsaw for distance, and when I'm in surv's faces.
I've always had a 2 way gauge for killer difficulty... 1. How much knowledge of the game you need to complete at an optimal play level. And 2. How much mechanical skill does it take to make the power function at its best.... For the 1st metric overall I'd argue blight requires the most knowledge for your average player... but for competitive viability at a higher level of play I like to put trapper as one of the top knowledge needy killers. At a low level trappers meant to be easy to play, but quickly survivors get better and better and at this level of play, trapper placement and macro has to be absolutely mind bogglingly perfect, and unpredictable. For the mechanical killers id argue Billy and pyramid head has the most mechanically precise powers in the game, Billy requiring sharp mouse movement for curves, and distance gauging like no other killer to get downs at loops. While pyramid head has 1 frame to flick his power making it very difficult to learn at first and very hard to time consistently
As a ph main. The amount of times I predicted someone vaulting and still whiffimg despite it being linear is painful to think about lol. I'm glad I'm seeing people acknowledge how difficult it can be to Master him at tiles. The game is harder when survivors greed pallets because they're confident enough that they're dead hards are gonna carry them and they'll make a big blunder and pre drop and I'm the one that's punished because they can press E for free allowing my attack and outplay mean nothing. It also feels demoralizing to play him sometimes. But I keep going cuz he is a fun boyo
@@MrPherae well the earthquake has travel time so #1 thing is to compensate for that, the further they are away the further you have to lead your shot. At windows you can easily miss by fireing too late, however mastering the pyramid head flick is the only way to make him a viable anti-loop, otherwise your power is only a pallet mindgame and nothing more.
@@theswiftphil8789 yeah his flicks are important and really hard to get consistently. Sometimes I throw matches on purpose because I need the experience of getting his flicks down
Recently I did all adepts for killer (I’m a hard survivor main so I’d only had like 10 hours as killer out of 600 hours) and hillbilly was by far the hardest adept to do. I did his adept later so I was in higher MMR matches and I remember my first two games I ran into Atleast 15 walls each. One of the survivors complemented me for using my chainsaw a lot since he never sees many Billys do it, it’s cause it’s so damn hard to.
When I want to play a low-stress game where I can guarantee a few kills (like for the archives or something) I play Nurse. She was pretty easy to pick up, I found the reflexes I developed from Huntress applied to her blinks some (same for Demo, Slinger, and Twins), and I can do relatively well just using brown add-ons. Not so much with Billy and Blight. Learning them can be infuriating and I commend anyone who tries.
I agree Hillbilly and Blight (even Oni in that regard) are really hard to master and are way harder to figure out than a nurse. You need to predict the ''line'' you take 1-2 seconds before you actually do it and even if you do it 100% perfect you probably still end up bumping into some obstacle and be like ''meh''. They are really fun and feel pretty exhausting to play because of the concentration you need to put in but they are also the most fun ones. I can't even imagine how it must feel to do insane curves with a billy, flicks (baitflicks) with a blight or the 180/360 Oni Hit. Thats why you need to respect such players because even i who wrote this gave up on them because you are gonna SWEAT
Something I find both interesting and a little bit sad is the fact that a lot of the killers have the POTENTIAL to be very hard to master, but there is just an easier (and often less fun) way to play them that is just as effective if not better. In short: the most skillful play sometimes isn't the most effective, in part because in some cases more skill is only required when handicapping. Case in point: Twins. Controlling Victor (minus things like the punishing cooldown after every leap) is a ton of fun and can be a bit tricky as you go for trickshots and such. But instead the focus is often more on splitting the pressure for efficient slugging and camping. Now, you don't HAVE to play that way, but it's definitely the easiest way to play to win. Similar but different and potentially worse case: Hag (and to some extent Trapper). The strategy of efficient trap placement is deeply interesting to me, and yet you see so much that's reduced to "place trap at hook" or "set trap in loop in chase" (okay if done right the second can be fun for Killer if you're creative, but most people aren't). If you don't do those things, the game becomes a lot more interactive and challenging (although this doesn't necessarily make one weaker) because you're having to predict things with survivors, and they're having to predict you, and it becomes a back-and-forth of trying to be the surpriser rather than the surprised and to bait one another. But instead everyone just traps in the "simple" way that gets easy results. And so everyone hates Hag, even though the POTENTIAL for skilled play is there (please make hooks not allow traps near BHVR as a former Hag main I beg you I'm so tired of seeing campy Hags who don't know how to actually strategize). Interesting cases: Trickster. The iridescent add-on that forces you to not miss blades is infinitely more fun and interesting than playing him normally because you have to actually aim rather than having a machine gun. Why couldn't we have that? ;-; but instead it's an imprecise mess. I know he can seem fun to play because of the lethality in chase, but to be honest I find him aggressively boring because once I know how to point and click I basically win. Deathslinger also has this problem. And so on and so forth. TLDR: Playing in the most skillful ways often isn't the most efficient.
I'd throw trapper in the mix here. Not only do you need to know how to chase properly, but consistently getting value out of your traps requires a whole other level of map understanding and survivor mentality. He also has a power that survivors can take away from him (disarming traps) and unlike the Hag, he doesn't automatically get disarmed traps back in his possession. Any map pressure he can generate tends to have nothing to do with his power (unlike multiple killers including billy) but is more a product of good playing. Weakest and most difficult killer to play effectively but the sound of a survivor stepping into a well-placed trap is easily the most satisfying thing in the game
Funny you make this video, because I used to be completely unable to play Nurse whatsoever when I was on a lower-spec system. The choppiness combined with the forced camera movement after a blink would make me physically nauseous. However, once I procured a new rig able to play at a consistent 120+ FPS and 1440p (along with Shadowborn), all of that went away...and quickly I learned that she's nowhere near difficult to play once you have a solid foundation of map knowledge. Once you take away pallets and windows, survivors really only have a select number of movement options to avoid getting hit. Nurse is simply about correctly predicting which they will utilize, and then having the reaction time to capitalize in turn. This is even easier if using double range to reduce the time survivors have to react to your movements. Playing her is an exercise in boredom.
I fully agree with you on blight and hillbilly being harder to master than nurse that being said I think you are downplaying nurses difficulty when she IS NOT running distance add ons. In my opinion it requires a lot of skill and intelligence to play nurse well and read survivors and how they move especially in the DH meta. That being said that meta is getting nerfed and I think we will see less DHs and nurse will get a stronger. However literally nothing I said applies to range add on nurse. With normal nurse a good juke can gain the survivors a lot of distance and leave the nurse in a bad spot that can really screw them while omega blink nurse literally just teleports right back onto the survivor with one blink.
I think Pyramid Head is to learn at the top level. He played like huntress with a slower firing ranged attack that you can hit people through walls with, and to land 100% of the M2s you go for is probably one of the hardest things to achieve in DBD
As a pyramid head main myself, I appreciate the acknowledgement first of all. But I do somewhat agree he's pretty difficult to master. Even casual matches can be penalizing cuz we can't Crossmap snipe like huntress can but we make up for extremely oppressive chases and being one of the strongest tunnelers in the game if set up correctly. But pyramid heads power being super telegraphed to survivors is hard. You can't consistently land m2 through walls because if they're smart enough, they'll always be right out of the edge of his power. Sometimes I envy huntress players for being able to snipe at long distances cuz that first hit really helps.
@@MrPherae while huntress may be able to get cross map hits however, it is extremely rare against a good team and to a team who is paying attention I find, and PH’s anti looping abilities are just superior to huntress on most tiles for the simple fact it can go through walls and he’s 115. Even if survs try to dodge the M2 he zones people better than huntress too in certain areas and I still stand by him being definitely top 3 or 4 perhaps in highest skill ceilings
@@Matt-vf5uz I've never felt so validated as a pyramid head main lmao I appreciate your thoughts on him. Makes me feel extremely motivated to keep grinding him
I would argue slightly about the definition of skill ceiling, but your observations I absolutely agree. Seeing a top skill hillbilly able to predict behavior while chain dashing is impressive, and is much more difficult then slight predictions that an equivalent nurse needs to do.
I agree. I've tried Nurse and after a bit of rough games, I was starting to get consistent results. Blight and Hillbilly are rough to play and master, given since they still have to obey the laws of physics that the entity made, but forgot when nurse is there. It's confirmed, the entity is a simp.
No one really mentions that post nerf Slinger is extremely difficult to perform consistently good with. You need to know the distance between you and the survivor, if they are in range, if they are in range how much do you lead by, how good is the survivor's reaction time, will they juke in response to the shot, do you need to hold ADS for a bit to throw off their timing, can you shoot through this pinhole, where can you shoot over this loop, which loops can you actually land a hit after harpooning someone... and missing a single shot and then reloading costs you something like 12m of distance. Also knowing whether to reel while walking forward or backward after a specific shot, and whether to even reel at all so you can make the chain last just a few moments longer He's like Billy in that you need to learn each individual loop and how to play it. Billy needs to know if he can curve, and how to curve that specific loop. Slinger needs to know where you can shoot someone through a pinhole or over an obstacle at a specific loop, and how to reel them to guarantee a hit. I'm also fairly certain that his harpoon only cares about hitting survivor meshes, not about hitting their collision. So he's also the only killer in the game where the survivor you are playing against makes a major difference. Jane is easy to shoot since she is dummy thicc, Jeff can be shot over many obstacles where other survivors cannot be shot, and Nea cannot be shot in many loops due to her short stature. Generally shorter, skinnier survivors are harder to hit than taller, wider survivors (obviously).
Definitely billy or blight but im gonna give it to blight at a high level simply because flicking with him is so physically demanding, I literally break my bones trying to hit a 4° flick. With billy i feel like if you can flick without overturning and hitting the loop you’re good, hard part is the timing.
@@ExhaustedWombat dpi makes it easier but it is still mega hard and you have to still learn how to do those things. Everyone just says it makes it ultra easy, but as a blight main trust me it doesnt
actually trapper is because i can’t even finish a game before killing myself
trapper is not hard,just too weak.
You are implying that you have killed yourself multiple times. Is it possible to learn this power?
@@Vigil920 Not from a Jedi
Trapper is really hard cuz u gotta prep thinking ahead of time and if things dont go they way u planned. It is a 4 minute game with all gens popping up LUL
@@renarenacat You have the entire map to place your traps and you gotta hope they get value. That's being hard to play if your power is able to be used on every spot on the entire map.
I never felt more miserable than trying to hit chainsaws with Billy in this game
Yep. Everytime i missed my chainsaw i wanted to quit. And most of it the survivor was in my face.
I was gonna say actually, I found learning Hillbilly FAR more difficult and frustrating than learning Nurse was.
And the Devs gave billy a cooldown because a few players were a little to good with him but nurse stays the way she is. Billy is extremely hard to learn, yet he had to suffer so damn much and nurse just "deserves" to be the way she is.
@@BlackMetalBroad I would take an old billy over nurse any day
Billy and blight are by far the highest skill caps. In my opinion, the people saying nurse is the hardest. I've been convinced for years that's just an excuse to justify how fuckin busted she is, you don't need mind games or anything. Most brain dead killer next to leather.
Billy is tough, I like him but he is hard to make work
In my experience i kinda disagree. For me the hardest to learn was nurse by far. Billy was always a basic bitch for me. He is easy to play and to achieve good results. Not much skill here for me. Bubba is the much harder chainsaw killer for me. But its just personal experience with them.
Being able to get consistent curves at loops as Billy is a real accomplishment in this game
Not sure i buy billy being hard so much as he got gutted. His power not only got nerfed to be more awkard and janky but now billy saw simply dosent work on a a lot of the loops and maps. Some many maps have been redesigned to have so much clutter and crap that even a god billy cant navigate without stopping and starting the chainsaw sprint. Curves are legitimately impossible in a lot of situations unless your right on top of the survivor.
I guess you can argue hes hard because of this because your fighting this uphill battle. Billy dosent curve like he used to and its very clearly visible they massively overdid it on his nerfs.
But hey if you guys wanna show me billys got that potential to be great hit up a few dbd games with him bring his play rate up and show the community hes still good.
@@zarathos888 Billy Main here.. what you said isnt really true.. if you got the timing and muscle memory down you can curve 80-90% of all loops (with engravings even really tricky or long ones)
bruh I legit picked up Billy today, and idk how tf youtubers make him look so easy to play
@@jo.cbr125 Core problem with that how long does it take to get to those positions and how does it make sense for his power to go on cooldown the worse you are at playing him? I just have a hard time believing this since well if that was the case why dosent these billies show up in any of my games.
Even during the billy archive he rarely showed up and not once did I get hit by a cool curve billy.
Again I want to be proven wrong but if even scott is struggling to play billy then who is this killer meant for? The call of action is there lets see more billies in dbd.
i personally dont think its that impressive, tbf tho i am relatively young so i could have a much easier time learning purely technical inputs as opose to having good game sense because of that
The Hardest killer to play is Freddy cause you’ll fall asleep playing him halfway through a match
Those spooky dream world effects tickle my fancy. Other than that, totally, most boring dude ever.
When you're playing as Freddy and you hear him laugh...he's laughing at you, the fool who's playing him :P
I find Freddy fun to play. Bow down mortals.
Yeah Freedy's dream ability is so good it causes the players to fall asleep in real life to.
@@kilzfordays Who let you out of Gotham?
I’m glad someone recognizes how much effort it takes to learn curvebilly. Especially me trying to do it on Xbox. Was quite the dark ages of my killer career.
Sounds like easy way to kill your gamepad.
Controller billy is much easier than M&K billy tbh
@@spartan11715 For me who played console for a long time, I definitely agree with this. Learning to curve is much easier on Controller, but once you learn MnK Billy it's easier to be more precise.
Billy is the hardest without a doubt, but that's mostly because he's been the king of high effort/low reward since his nerf, and BHVR keeps making maps that are absolutely miserable for him, which is why nobody plays him these days.
I play Billy just because scary banjo chainsaw man is dope. I can only land long range saws on idiots (I'm playing console) and close range is just for Gross camping (only 2% of competent survivors are ever in a position to get back revved) I just play him with save the best for last, I usually come in last hoping for the best.
Nah. Trapper is SO BAD that he is harder to play than any killer. Also, you want to kys before the match ends anyway so you lose mental sanity too.
@@Klausinator451 The problem is that you're still better off playing Blight even if you can't use his power well in chase, or just pick Bubba for easy insta down mechanic, especially if you're playing on console.
@@kilzfordays The difference is that it's hard to win with Trapper because his power sucks, but there's nothing hard about looking at the ground and holding a button to set traps. With Billy you need surgical precision/timing and you can still get juked or bump into a random ass invisible pixel.
@@IYIosefu I'd honestly say that Billy is just Oni on Expert mode
As someone who's played Hillbilly on console since release, I don't think I've ever successfully curved with him. That shit is hard.
I tried curvebilly on console at my friends house and, going from pc, it’s definitely very difficult. I was able to pull off some results by setting sensitivity to max, but no where near as efficiently as I do on pc. Luckily my friend isn’t that good at the game so the lower mmr gave me enough time to fail some curves and not get heavily punished by it, but playing Billy on controller requires even more effort than he does normally
Really? I find it.. easier on console for some reason
Fr. Ain’t NOOOO way someone is hitting these crazy curves on a little analog stick like how they are on pc with 120 frames
@@Rabbit-o-witz It's kinda a matter of confirmation bias, every time I've attempted it's completely failed and so I never bothered to get good at it.
@@ProunceProudly proud sweaty console Billy. The controller just feels more natural than mnk to me in this game
I found you because of Elden Ring but your in depth knowledge of DBD has kept my attention somehow despite me never playing this game. I appreciate the passion I suppose 🤘
Yea same. I will probably never play DBD, but I still find this content quite interesting and enjoyable
Lmao newbs I've been here since the good ol DBD days it's nice to see some new viewers around here
@@voidburger2989 Don’t be an ass :p
Remember Scott started with Souls content then DBD then Elden then DBD again
@@voidburger2989 silence
If youre interested in more DBD, he has vods on twitch and tons of stream highlight videos that go years back. It's a great little repository of DBD knowledge and game play.
Billy, not only do you need insane mechanical skills, need to understand his unique mind games but he also becomes much harder to play against people who understand how to play against him. Nurse doesn't have any of that.
Idk After playing nurse and knowing the timings of blinks you get the hang of how to "loop" her best. saved my ass more often than i can count
@@splix3012 You can certainly run an average Nurse for a bit but it doesn't mean she has real counterplay. It's fully on the Nurse to screw up.
@@splix3012 I have looped nurses many times, but I don't think it's because I know how, it's more because of the Nurse do not know how. Nurse has literal no counter play, even at corners and you try to mind game, Nurses who fall to the mind game might lose, but she does not have to play your mind game, she blinks to the corner, if you are there she hits you, if you keep running, she can blink again and hit you, there's no other way. you just need to know what options survivors have against Nurse, and in all situations, there are only 2 options, and the nurse can use 2 blinks to negate both options and hit you
@@jR0xas no, he's right. Nurse can't read your mind still. If you run around that corner, she doesn't know what you will do from there. She can only make a guess. Coldwind Farm is a MISERABLE map for her. Because once you can go ANY direction and she can't really tell if you're committing to it or not.
The issue on most maps against her is finding her weak spots. On The Game, for example, the ENTIRE top level is super safe against her. Every time she charges up, just run back at her. If/when she does her 2nd charge, do the same thing. She can't blink in place in those.
Also, something I rarely see people do is round a corner, step outside of attack range from the door, and then stop. This is REALLY hard for her to answer. Because if she charges her blink, you body into her. If she doesn't, you run until she does. Fake a run back at her, then double back...there's still a lot of mind gaming to have with her. It's just...different because you two can mindgame with full visibility on one another.
@@brendonw456 i tried bringing up the second floor counterplay and got kinda shredded for it by chat on stream, which gives me the impression alot of people don't understand nurses nuances and dont care to develop counterplay
Something was lost in DBD when running at ppl with a chainsaw became more stressful than running away from the chainsaw
When the killer is scared of the survivors...
@@BaldorfBreakdowns when trees, bushes, junk, and desks take more protection hits than survivors ever will…
THANK YOU, I get sick of hearing people justify so much BS with nurse just because she requires a few more brain cells than other killers to initially learn
And that's not an excuse for a character to be broken
@@midnightttemp821 I don't think her power alone is broken it's some of her addons that make her so broken. Without any addons her power is strong but manageable for survivors.
@@mikey-qe9op9fv9w Yeah its really just range addons and the ability to stack double recovery.
@@mikey-qe9op9fv9w Also blinks should be special attacks
I wouldn't even quantify it as brain cells. It's simply muscle memory and reaction speed.
The hardest killer to play is the twins because you have to build up the will to waste money on them
Just use shards
Twins are fun man :(
I always found them interesting and I bought em. Biggest regret
If you're bad at them yeah they'll be shit but you see killers like Dowsey that can go on 200+ win streaks and be only defeated by the most insane and cracked survivors I've seen since Team Oracle lol
@@latrodectahespara2728 tiwns is a snore fest for both sides.
There are two types of Billy's in my experience. GIGACHAD Billy that has total control of the match from the moment they enter. And then every other Billy that will let everyone bleed out because they couldn't get a down for 4 gens.
What about the baby back to hook Billy’s. They used to be a thing years ago. Not sure about these days. I remember the blue eyed little guys. Hook, chainsaw away, then wait for an unhook or see someone goin for it and come straight back for the down.
I am a Billy main and this brings me joy :) still learning those curves tho, and Garden of Joy collisions give me conniptions.
twigs are the enemy man. just to help you out witht the curves: certain cars have very little collision, benches have very little collision, and the giant truck thing on ormond has very little collision. all this allows you to hug those objects tightly for better curving. Sofareks has a great tutorial on it, have fun!
Edit: just wanted to say that turning up your controller sens in the settings turns up the sens for the initial turn speed with the saw. This tip is actually for PC, i know i said controller sens but you can watch OhTofu's vid on billy, he will say the same thing. I dont know if it works on console too but it might
Ye, garden of "pain" = instant dc on billy (same with lery's) xd
@@sqflex7466 I'll take lerys, good practice for hooking around tight corners, but garden.. I'll line up the perfect shot, clip a twig, then be able to just walk straight through the twig anyway. I've lost my shit live repeatedly because of it lmao.
@@w1reless453 sadly, I am a grimey PC player
@@aidanmcguire3096 it works on pc too man. i also play on pc. for some reason turning up controller sens raises the initial turn speed. im not fucking with you man
"Basically Billies are all chads, end of story."
I feel validated for wanting to play Billy on Switch. I can't curve very well, but from time to time I can snipe a survivor across the map with the chainsaw sprint!
Billy: W E E E E E E E E E
yep, I agree, curvebilly is such a mechanically demanding task that its leagues above blight and nurse.
@@Name-ql7jf well not anymore that they removed the velocity
Curvebilly isn’t worth the effort.
@@Seoul_Soldier hell yeah he is, successfully doing it feels awesome! Once you get good at it too itll make certain tiles way easier and yield better results in general if youre going for a win. Source: i am a curvebilly
@@w1reless453 yep, curvebilly is the only reason I play DBD since you can improve daily and still not be a master.
@@Name-ql7jf space billy spots still exist, but skybilly is just completely dead.
I think difficulty in this game can be expressed in three quantities: how easy a Killer is to get into and get some level of success with (the skill floor), how much skill it takes to master the Killer from top to bottom (the skill ceiling) and how unforgiving the Killer is of player mistakes.
Nurse has the highest skill floor, Blight has the highest skill ceiling, and in terms of how unforgiving a Killer is of mistakes it's gotta be Twins. No other Killer in the game can lose not just a chase but a whole map's worth of distance from a single missed attack, or get punished so hard by perks that other Killers legitimately don't care about like Exponential or WGLF as part of regular gameplay.
Billy isn't at the absolute top in any of those three metrics but is really high in all three, so I'd agree he's the hardest.
twins players deserve to suffer for playing a shitty boring killer so idc
I gotta disagree with you on that buddy. I think the most unforgiving killer is Hillbilly when you are trying to learn curve. That shit is hard af
@@The_Red_Zealot Well if you miss a chainsaw sprint, you can recover. If Victor gets kicked, then you're screwed. So, no, Twins get punished furthur.
@@colin8923 You clearly have never played twins? Its super easy to bait a pounce, whereas Billy requires perfect timing of the chainsaw if you want to 99 it and then curve. Victor gets kicked but you can just put hin out a couple seconds later. Twins has a very slug heavy playstyle and can snowball like no other. Maybe you should play Twins more bud
@@The_Red_Zealot yeah but i think you missed the point where victor can get pretty far away during chase and if he gets kicked thats basically the chase lost, no coming back since when u get over to where he was the survivor is long gone but as billy u can always just try another chainsaw
Yeah I found nurse really easy to play when getting into it was blight that took me weeks to learn how to play but that was pre buff when he first came out and it was on console
Yeah, Blight on console is extremely hard to get good with. If you want to do even close to decent, you have to crank your sens up to 100% and learn specific flick timings and such. I didn't even play Blight on console pre-buff, but I can imagine it was miserable with that ~30 degree flick angle.
xbox player here and i agree. Took me a long time to get good with him but now i rarely get a game where i get under 3 kills
Blights the only killer people say you need a mouse for that I can actually play well on console. Billy...
No. Huntress....no. deathslinger, definitely no.
@@Klausinator451 I’m a huntress main on console and not to toot my own horn but I’d say I’m on par if not better then a lot of knm players
As someone who plays Huntress alot, nurse feels basically the same just with less interactions at least to me ^^"
I've been saying this for a while. I think that's why you'll constantly see people saying that every nurse is either trash or cracked. They ain't cracked, they just got the hang of her power that's it. I'm not a cracked nurse, but I can 4k with trash perks and no add ons almost every time. Once you know how to play her, she's the easiest killer to win with in the game cause looping becomes optional, and pallets/windows actually benefit you.
That being said, nurse with no add ons ain't too bad. You can somewhat counter her by spreading out, hammering gens, and holding w since she's slow asf and the base blinks don't go THAT far.
I think if the nurse didnt had any recharge addons and maybe a little bit more base cd on her blink not much but just a tiny bit that could actually make her more in line because than fucking up a blink actually would give a large amount of distance to the survivor wich than results in the ability to hide away more easy. It would basicly just make her counterplay of loosing line of sight an actuall counterplay and not just give you 3 more seconds to live.
Scott Jund allegedly got my grandma pregnant and doesn't want to take responsibility for the child
bro what
Scott your baby needs you. Come home now please…
I'll repeat what I said in a forum post once because it seems it's similar to what's said in this video
"People really overestimate how difficult it is to get good at nurse. It does take time and effort and skill and muscle memory because I mean I've gone through the pain of learning her myself way back when I would actually play her, but the ratio of skill floor to strength is way more balanced on a killer like blight, who I would 100% argue without a doubt in my mind has a harder power to learn and master than nurse, but nurse gives much higher results despite this in terms of her strength even though she's unable to play chases normally if she's struggling to use her power unlike a blight. In fact other killers like hag and arguably hillbilly are much harder to perform well with, and yet get much lower overall results than the nurse, which is why she needs another nerf/rework."
Keeping aside omega-blink, because I agree its OP, what is it about nurse that people say needs rework. Other than the, she doesn't follow the mechanics of DBD, which I think is a bs argument since most of these people don't want killers to camp, tunnel or play toxic, which are mechanics of the game. Like for me, I don't want her nerfed at all because she is truly the only killer who can keep up with the best of the best survivors, and when someone says killers like Hillbilly or Hag have way more skill involved with much worse results, all I can think of is to buff Hillbilly and Hag so that they perform better than nurse. I think skill should be rewarded and so, difficult killers should perform better than say, not so difficult killer like Nurse. Nerfing nurse isn't gonna help with the Hillbilly or the Hag situation, it'll only make it so like Spirit, we will have a very strong A tier killer, who can't keep up with the best of the best. Maybe its just my killer sided brain, but when I think of killers like Trapper or Huntress underperforming for their skill in comparison to the Nurse, I think of buffing them rather than nerfing Nurse.
@@uzayrbombaywala8314 I hear "Nurse shouldn't be touched because she's the only killer that can compete with the best survivors" often and it's a confusing mindset to me. You rightly point out a flaw in the game's balance (most killers can't keep up with efficient survivors), but your solution (just leave Nurse in the state she's in so *someone* can compete with them) does nothing to actually address the flaw. It's equivalent to BHVR adding Shattered Hope as a "counter" to boons. It doesn't bring survivors more in line or make weaker killers stronger.
We should be aiming to make *every* killer a viable pick. I don't think it's possible to buff any other killer to Nurse's level, though, so I think she should be brought down to the level of other killers instead. If, after that, it turns out that killers really can't compete without an ability that lets them ignore fundamental game mechanics, that's indicative of other killers needing buffs, (more likely) survivors needing nerfs, or something else needing rebalancing like map design.
@@uzayrbombaywala8314 So the solution to "nurse is the only killer able to keep up with good survivors' is "make nurse the only viable killer on the roster so everybody is forced to play them" ????? Nurse shouldn't blink through stuff. SHe should have collision with her blinks. thats how you balance her. Still a high mobility killer with a high skill ceiling but isnt just an autowin because people cant escape you.
@@JudojugsVtuber the last part doesn't make any sense, taking out the ability to teleport through stuff with nurse is literally making her a worse blight. The nurse is fair as she is rn, it's impossible to make a game perfectly balanced, there will be always an awful killer and a powerful killer, instead of nerfing nurse, buff other killers to make them somewhat better and put more skill requirement into some killers that require less, like Michael for example he should have a buff or a rework that makes him stronger by default and some skill requirement that comes into play
Don’t think nurse needs rework; some other killers, including Billy, just need to be brought up to her level
I think a big part of why curve billy is so rare is because people don't want to go through those growing pains of learning it. I still remember when i was first learning how to curve, I had to learn timings to know when to start revving and I did this at every loop to learn when and where. I remember not knowing about Controller sensitivity being how to increase initial turn speed (also kinda works with blight but not the same). I remember the countless, hundreds, thousands of times I bumped into Macmillan trees, Eyrie Twig bushes, Windows, Garden of Joy hitboxes, or just random fucking walls and losing game after game after game because it took so much effort for so little payoff. But after so much time committed I finally was able to be even a *good* curve billy. By no means the best, but good enough to be confident in every chainsaw i attempt and knowing when and who to not bother trying to.
Then theres nurse. Took maybe a day or two to get muscle memory and then maybe a week to understand how to stop overblinking and stop trying to predict too much. Had maybe 10 or 15 hours on killer before I learned her, and with just Nurse and corrupt I was able to push myself from rank 20 (ages ago now) to rank 1 within maybe a day or so. But yeah, sure, Nurse is hard i guess. /s
I think one thing that makes nurse considered hard to play as well is the fact that you cannot rely on basic M1 strat whatsoever. Most killers you can still M1 if you get completely flustered and start messing up their ability too much. So with blight you still have the option to run down a survivor (the same with billy), that's not really an option for nurse. So I believe that the frustrations of learning her blink, mixed with the fact that if you get flustered, then you are fucked just makes her hard for people to want to keep playing as well.
user input is her flaw basically, which isn't a good thing when it comes to design unfortunately
I couldn’t agree more. It’s not hard to learn her but prolly the most frustrating.
@@evanmelendez0627 Exactly, the hardest part is actually sticking through it and not letting the survivors get to you, which is difficult because we all want to bully nurses whenever we get the chance lol
Learning Nurse & Blight took me a little bit longer but i still got the hang of them pretty fast. The Killers that really took me long to get the hang of it where Clown, Oni and Billy (still need to learn Oni and Billy).
For Clown was the problem for me to learn the Arch, throw distance and when and where to use his bottle right. For Billy to use his chainsaw midchase and for Oni to when and how to use his dash.
I find Oni to be one of the hardest killers, but I think that's just because it's especially tilting to miss his power.
Once you understand nurse's jank and can reliably "overblink" through certain geometry you can pretty much just spin your mouse around and get free hits from your lunge and auto aim. Very difficult indeed...
Even with the whole “oh nurse is hard so that excuses OP stuff”, there shouldn’t be OP stuff because then there’s no counterplay so there is nothing you can do when you do go against a skilled nurse (or maybe below average because of the OP nature), that’s like saying “oh this killer is hard to play so that’s why he’s allowed to have busted add ons that take little effort to take use of, like alchemists ring, which needs you to do the shocking thing of “getting value out of your power” for its EXTREMELY GOOD upside, or blighted add ons, which are arguably worse than alchemists ting because you don’t even need to hit, because it’s literally “use your power”, a good blight can use these add ons and some perks and essentially be uncounterable, but because he’s hard that’s supposed to negate the fact that these already good killers have busted add ons that make them even more cracked? Not that blight needs a nerf, i main blight, but I agree, his best add ons are way overtuned and prolly should be toned down, even a little bit, alchemists ring mainly, it’s kind of a catalyst for other addons to also be busted too
if that is your mentality have you looked at how much busted shit survivor has?
@@kdastronaut171 why are you trying to flip the issue on its head? The green medkit, BT, DS, UB and whatever else is unfair against an average Clown, but completely justified against a Nurse or a batshit crazy flicking hugging Blight with alch ring. How about actually bringing down the killers that dictate the meta to the level where everyone else is and then balancing survivor stuff accordingly?
she's balanced, but not for soloq
@@kdastronaut171 yes…I’m aware, but in my comment I’m talking about killer specifically, as the video is about “the hardest killer to play” and I have more experience as killer, with some survivor, and yes, I’m aware circle of healing exists, and yes it should be nerfed or idk, not stack with medkits at least to stop dumb self healing (though I think altruistic heals should still count, as it requires more than 1 survivor)
However, I’d consider CoH to be the only broken survivor perk, other perks are mainly just “prevents not fun scenario from happening, like being camped, tunnelled, slugged or…all of the above”, which shouldn’t be viable strategies in the first place (they aren’t fun after all)
@@dungeaterfancam The shit survivors have/had was absolute. It's so easy to counter Nurse. Just run around. Make her fuck up but y'know you need your deadhard LOL
Billy: Has to know hitboxes of every object in the game, know how to curve and flick chainsaw just to not bump into a wall.
Survivors who play against Billy: I run, I hug wall, I win. hehe
They should honestly make Hillbilly easier to play.
I like that he is hard, but it's easy to fix billy and make him fair and strong again.
Lo pro chains by basekit...
Less bumping punishment on him,
A little bit of steering, since curving is counterable by pre-dodging...
Some little improvements on his useless addons
I'd love it if they made the meme addon give him double rev speed and half collision duration. That'd at least make learning him easier. (The half damage one)
They should delete the overheat mechanic on him, it has no reason to exist to begin with
@@zant2146 if anything there should be an overheat Mechanic on generators if you do em at 500% speed lol. "Survivors are inflicted with the 4th degree burn status effect, any survivor action involving hands is brought to 0.01% progress speed."
No seriously, overheat is dumb as hell. Then again...............better idea than nerfing twins at least....
Lo pro as base could be a decent idea to buff him. Honestly all he needs is to remove his heat mechanic. Maybe they could also put yellow engravings on to doom engravings so it frees up another add on slot
Hillbilly, Blight and Pinhead have the highest skill ceiling’s in the game imo
Billy and Blight more so than Pinhead
I’d also argue Huntress and Oni are there if I was to make a top 5
Twins and slinger right behind them
Huntress objectively has the highest skill ceiling imo. (I know, oxymoron, lol), same with trickster to some degree. Huntress could theoretically just cross map people over and over and over and end the game in like 20 seconds every time at max skill. Also hag and trapper. Trapper is a close second actually. Perfect predictive skills can make a game end instantly(this is super infeasible, but possible.) basically, I think huntress and trapper have some of the highest "theoretical" skill ceilings.
@@billyjoelbeans Saying huntress OBJECTIVELY has the highest skill ceiling and then adding "imo" right after is so ironic. Im not sure if u understand wat objective means lol
@@billyjoelbeans Also saying hag and trapper has of some of the highest skill ceilings bcus u have to predict survivors is so retarded💀 figuring out common places for a survivors and placing traps there ain hard. A lot of that shit is passive. U choose where u wanna place it and then do it and wait, thats it. Too passive to be even considered for highest skill ceiling
@@dazai2734
I think what they meant was “Theoretically” so that’s what I took it as
@@dazai2734 Bro, are you slow??? I literally said theoretical. And you have the nerve to be that presumptuous. Likewise, I said "I know, oxymoron". I literally clarified both of your braindead points. Idk what your deal is. Its possible to perfectly predict and trap all 4 survivors, simultaneously, with brick, to get close to 4 instant kills barring unbreakable type perks as well as it. Its near impossible in practice ofc. But its still something he CAN do. Not WILL do. A ceiling is by definition the highest possible thing to reach. It IS his skill ceiling. Not practical skill ceiling, that's a different thing, but it is the ceiling. its the only thing to discuss if you aren't regarding practicality.
And btw, bc you clearly have the lexical grace of a toddler: oxymoron: a figure of speech in which apparently contradictory terms appear in conjunction (e.g. faith unfaithful kept him falsely true ).
BIllys are all Chads. It's such a shame it's so hard to get good results with him because he is such a fun killer to face as a survivor. The chases much more thrilling when the guy can whip around a corner at mach speeds with pinpoint accuracy. It leads to fun mind games and sometimes odd pathing that wouldn't work against a standard killer but can buy you time against the curve. Whereas against nurse you just hope they are still in the learning phase and get lost when you drop line of sight.
Yeah Billy is pretty much the balanced version of the Blight.
Really funny how going against a pro billy is the most fun ever while going against a pro nurse, blight, spirit is the most missarable feeling ever xd
The hardest thing to do as Billy is to do a reverse chainsaw into Quentin hiding in a corner
I would love a video where you just discuss/explore the concepts of skill floors & ceilings in way more depth, maybe not even just in dbd, more from a game design/philosophy perspective scott
It makes me happy to see that I've seemingly gone from being the minority to being in the majority when it comes to my opinion on Nurse.
Used to only hear people talk about how fun Nurse is to face because shes such a "skillful killer" and all that. Nowadays people seem to agree more that Nurse really doesnt require a PHD or anything special to play.
This is something I’ve been saying for a while now. There are multiple killers that require a much higher understanding of how to use their powers than Nurse now, and the game is in such a better place health wise than it used to be, that Nurse should get some kind of drastic overhaul to her power. Her entire existence is bad for the games health, and her having literally no counter play makes going against her the most unfun games of DBD I have to sit through. Worse than Trickster, and that’s saying something
I first played DBD back in 2016, been keeping up with the game ever since then, and eventually started playing a couple of months ago. I picked Billy as my main out of nostalgia and it was fine at first, downing people left and right, doing some neat curves, sniping survivors across the map, but once I started getting higher MMR games, survivors became nigh untouchable. While Nurse breaks any existing mechanic in DBD and pretty much only requires you to master the Blink distance (also has an amazing training wheels add-on for this btw), whenever I play Billy, I feel like I need to do top-tier mind games, be omnipotent and omnipresent to put pressure, and it can be just not fun sometimes, especially after getting Eyrie of crows 4 times in a row. I still love Billy and always will thou ❤️
Todays episode of Scott taking 5 minutes to explain a concept which could be described in 4 sentences.
Me and my bro started playing dbd almost at the same time, 4 years ago to be exact. However, he only played nurse and he is really pog at her, me on the other hand, I was playing other killers and actually playing dbd no nurese by daylight. Then we decided to switch, it took me two weeks like one hour a day and I got really high win rate aka 4k but my bro give up on other killers and told me that " really hard to play normal aka normies killers than nurse"
same goes to blight, alot of blight mains struggle hard to play most other Killers.
@@benz0988 at least with blight he needs to mind game when his power in cooldown
@@jackpot-ksa6872ye but most blight players just do very basic stuff sadly.
For me the hardest killer in the game is Huntress. The insane amount of tile knowledge required to know every possible throwing spot in a given situation, the ability to predict exactly how your opponent is going to play around your hatchet, the mechanics required to perfectly arc it over obstacles to hit someone hiding behind it, the absolute misery that is being a 110 killer-I don’t think I’ll ever struggle with a killer as much as I do Huntress.
Huntress is hard too yeah, but she is also way stronger then billy and has much better addons
@@theshowstopper1968 mastery to a character isn't referring to the strength of the killer. If that was the case clown would he the hardest or some other low teir killer.
Mastering a killer is more so a question of how difficult is it to fully be in tune with it. Such as information with nuisances or certain behaviors or strange mechanics.
Nurse is one dimensional, she only requires the skill of being able to blink where you want with charge/angle, and the players movement.
imho, blight is just a harder hill billy, and I've never played blight or against him. But from ky observations he does the samething hill bully does but in a way that relies on inconsistent mapping, both literally and shitty unreliable hitboxes
This is a genuinely great take. I'm a pretty okay killer and it took me maybe 2 weeks to consistently 3-4k with a slowdown heavy Nurse, then another week to just switch to chase perks/aura reading. I still can't reliably get more than a 2k on Billy or Blight and I don't really want to put in the time to learn them, whereas Nurse took a little bit of practice and like... one warm up chase when I want to play her again.
I truly loved the days when Billy was the king, however Behavior truly did outright kill him and his add-ons. The overheat mechanic is truly stupid, and worse on top of that, they changed most of his add-ons to revolve around the overheat mechanic. Even if they help the actual chainsaw, none of them genuinely help
Not to mention his actually decent addons' effects are gate behind playing badly.
nurse dbd and sniper tf2 are the same: high skill floor, but once you hit that skill floor you've also hit the skill ceiling, leading to funny balance problems
I agree that nurse isn't the hardest and I definitely agree that she needs an addon nerf but 2:35 just isn't true. You still have to learn to blink smart. You have to learn to blink at corners, you have to understand the survivor double back mindgame when doing long blinks, you have to understand to blink at the floor or wait for fatigue when a survivor gets too close, and you have to predict a lot on any tight indoor map. I'm probably missing some other things too but blink timing isn't the only thing to learn on her.
As a nurse main i agree with this, and the funny thing is that there’s still more to learn.
What does that mean "you have to learn to blink at corners." You don't learn anything. You just..do that. That's the only correct safe way to play Nurse. That's a one-game learning curve. There is no survivor double-back mindgame if you blink at the corner where you lost sight of them. That's what the second blink is for-correcting the first one.
Blinking at corners might be a simple thing to do but it's still something that you have to know to do. I mainly brought it up because you mentioned moonwalking, which is also something that doesn't have to be explicitely practiced/learned as well but is still something that you have to know to do that adds to complexity. And when I mentioned the double back mindgame I was more referencing out in the open or after the first blink around a corner. Depending on the distance and addons, you can't just get a guaranteed hit if a survivor makes the right read.
Like I said, I agree that nurse isn't the hardest killer, but during 2:35 you kinda phrase it like nurse is purely mechanical which isn't true. She still has other things to learn about her.
Glad you made this video and that’s definitely the best way to explain nurse I’m still fairly new to dbd but I don’t like to play nurse because it’s not that fun after I figured out the blinks after like 8 games. Personally I think that the dredge is high up there in skill ceiling it feels like he has a lot of potential but idk am still a newer player
thank you for making this video, I completely agree. blight is so hard to learn, but mastering billy's power is also very hard to do but can be very rewarding.
Imo huntress has a really high if not the highest skill ceiling in DBD killers. So easy to pick up yet insanely difficult to master.
100% agree, awhile back I tried learning nurse, and I legit stopped because it got boring with how easily and often I was winning
So glad to see Billy get some attention for once, I absolutely love playing as/against him. Maybe we shall see some new Billy mains off the back of this video :D
Imo Hillbilly is by far the hardest killer to play. The curving aspect and the punishable nature of his kit makes his skill ceiling insanely high. I’ve played a lot of Blight over the last 2 years and while I do think Blight holds a high ceiling for skill and there is so much to learn about his kit; even when you feel like you’re missing hits with Blight; you can still maintain somewhat control on the match. I’m not sure if the same can be said about Billy and that’s why I respect the shit out of those high skill Billy mains out there and I hope to be able to dedicate some time in the near future to master his kit myself.
I would say Plague is the hardest
Unironically Nurse is one of the easiest killers to play well lol
Real
Me after getting effortlessly hooked 3 times in the middle of the match by a godlike omega blink nurse in the first few minutes of the match with 0 counterplay: "Well at least she was really hard to play"
Good video. Yes the skill floor for Billy is lower than Nurse but the skill ceiling is much higher.
Honestly if they made it so none of Nurse's addons made her blink movement faster and whenever she was blinking through a falling pallet she got stunned, she wouldn't be so awful.
See this is my issue with Scott, most of what he said is simply false
“Nurse ignores game mechanics”: no she does not she just interacts with them differently, and while a pallet isn’t nearly as scary to her she also has to take every structure , bush, wall and tree into account as it affects how far she can blink in any given moment
“All you need to learn is her charge times”: Again this is wrong , knowing how far you can blink with a charge is step 1, you need to know releative survivor speeds when you can’t see them, tile layout, you need to read the survivors juking tactics , you need to know what you can or can’t blink through , how to handle top floor blinking, and you need to learn this on every map and every tile in the game.
“Blight is harder than nurse” Again based on what? Much of what blight must track nurse must too, the difference is blight can chase like any 115 killer if he has to, with nurse it’s all or nothing on her power, while blight has to be learned as well nurse plays unlike anyone else in her level of power reliance
“Billy is harder than any other killer” Now while I agree billy is harder than most killers to use his curving , I think his difficulty is also artificially boosted by just being a rather mediocre killer these days, he also doesn’t fare well with most of the new map setups, if he were in a proper spot he would be significantly more effective and not quite as difficult as a result
Now as to the nurse and her addons , I’d be more than willing to debate on that , the idea she’s unstoppable by any metric is not really true at all and even in her prime she was still outweighed by good teams, now I’d be open to addon suggestions since that’s the main source of contention but I believe if there is a take a give us only fair in return so keep that in mind if you wish to discuss it
"nurse doesnt ignore game mechanics" copium
@@lesarXD very productive , thank you for being a sheep
couldnt have said it better myself, take everything scott says with a grain of salt anyway
im too tired to have a more detailed debate as noted by the 2 hours of sleep i got in the video, so im just gonna say copium and faceplant
Blight is harder than Nurse because when a Blight gets to a thing that is on the map he needs to know how his power interacts with that specific object. Nurse just blinks through it no matter what it is and hits the survivor. You can blink through everything as long as it's not bigger than your blink range. This is literally the only skill you have to learn as nurse, besides predicting survivors, but simply using your first blink to get line of sight on them usually makes that redundant.
I'm glad we are finally starting to talk about how broken nurse is/can be.
I think more people are willing to talk about that now that dh is gone
In chase Blight has it easier because Blight's recovery from missing a survivor -> go to another wall, hitting the wall -> go to another wall, pallet dropped -> pretend that pallet is a survivor and kill it, big thing may be when survivor dodges but you can definetely spend those 3-6 seconds on extra bounce to wait out DH or a dodge. that would never have big impact in a game where you absolutely have to manage every second of your time as killer.
I understand, Scott. I also hate it when Nurse doesn't choke me.
The hardest killer is Billy, not for any mechanical reason, but for getting depressed having to think about how far from grace he’s fallen each time I start a match with him
When DbD was free on PS plus, I played Nurse with less than 30 hours and still managed to win most of my games
She really isn’t that hard at all, at least for low-mid rank.
That was 5 years ago when Nurse was the only killer worth running...
It also depends on what console you use. Using PC or a controller can make several killers much better/ worse to use. Like Nurse, Blight, Huntress, etc. Any killer that requires you to quickly aim on a strict time limit. Sometimes you need to make large movements, or even small subtle adjustments to your aim. You can do both of these with a mouse, but its harder with a thumbstick.
But on the other hand, some killers require more of a game sense and better planning to use effectively. Like Trapper, Hag, Onryo, or even Oni and the Artist to an extent. Oni with keeping people injured, knowing where they are to fill your power. And Artist with using your power strategically to get use out of it with each cool down and pressuring survivors on gens with your crows while you chase another survivor.
A bunch of other killers are more straightforward. Mostly some form of anti loop or a form of gen slow down. They can be hard to use effectively at high rank if you are going against good survivors. Easy to use mechanically, but can be hard to get value out of your power if it cant do much against good survivors.
(Like Legion or Pig)
Curve Billy when you add lopro chains becomes a whole different beast.
Before watching the video:
In my opinion it is hag. Because good hags like coconut are scary but still not as scary as a god nurse and in my opinion they both take the same amount of time to master yet Hag has a lower payoff.
I think blight has a higher skill ceiling. Billy may be harder to win with, but I think that’s just cause he’s a bad killer. Blight has a few more things to learn than billy. I’d say billy has the 2nd highest skill ceiling though.
While I agree with the sentiment of this video, I think it should be noted that a major contributing factor to Billy's difficult learning curve is his add ons. With blight for example, you can learn everything about his power with no add ons. You already have the entirety of his movement ability right out of the box. The add ons people use are supplementary to his power, but don't fundamentally change the muscle memory of it.
With Billy, you need engravings to really start curving like a madman. (At least from what I can tell.) Which significantly increases the cost of learning because you won't always have those add ons when you're new-intermediate with a killer
When I first started playing DBD seriously back in 2020, the first killer I even tried was Nurse because she sounded neat. The absolute hardest part about Nurse was just knowing how much you need to charge blinks to go where you want to go. Pressure and looping you don't even need to know any of that since you just ignore loops as a Nurse.
I play survivor mostly these days and I hate going against a Nurse personally. There's things you can do to play around a Nurse but when that Nurse has a full meta build as well as double range/recharge, its damn near impossible to win unless that Nurse is completely new and is just mimicking what others do. The worst part about playing against a Nurse is that the fun part of DBD, looping, is completely gone and theres no looping a nurse unless she waddles constantly or seriously fucks up her blinks all the time. Maybe its just my own skill level showing but, whenever I go against Nurse, especially in solo queue, she often has 2 downs before we can even do a gen because there is no perfect way to play against her to mitigate her power.
Example, against a nemesis you want to try and make him miss his tentacles as much as possible and keep him in tier 1 for as long as you can, as well as saving vaccines until he hits tier 3.
Against a huntress you want to constantly block line of sight and try not to lock yourself into animations or you're a free hit to her.
Against a blight you want to try and stay inside loops and shift to where he can't get an easy hit while he uses his power.
Against a nurse you block line of sight and pray she doesn't blink on top of you where she can get a hit, or if she doesn't she has a 2nd blink to correct. Playing around pallets doesn't work against Omega Blink nurse since she blinks too fast to react to it most of the time and trying to run away when she fucks up blinks doesn't matter since she can get back to you in no time.
Like I said, maybe its more on my own skill as a survivor but, for me its just not a fun game to play against a Nurse and its always "Okay, lets get this over with so I can play the actual game."
i hate people who say its fun going against "bad nurses" what is the fun part about it your just holding W and running arround like a headless chicken and you wont get hit i find it more boring going against a bad nurse than a good one and i hate going against good onces. i completly agree with your comment. i would say if they really wanna give nurse actuall counterplay remove her recharge addons, increase the cooldown of the blink slightly so that means breaking line of sight actually means something and gives you the ability to hide since a missed blink would give you atleast a good amount of distance.
I am a Nurse main and let me tell you, achieving "decend" results, yes it has a high skill floor and not a high ceiling. Getting to "good" with Nurse is really hard though, it´s not just mustle memmory. It´s knowledge over your mechanics and what the survivors are gonna do, it´s makro and finding a playstyle that fits your Nurse. Maybe you like to have bbq + make your choice, maybe you enjoy star struck or even a slugging playstyle. Everyone one of these is completly different from each other. I don´t agree that it´s just "mustle memmory and nothing more to it", theres a lot more and probably it´s because I´m Nurse main that I think saying something like that is not really respectful to people who train this Killer for a long time and get good with them, only to then hear smt among those lines.
HOWEVER: Nurse should get a complete addon rework, except for some addons.
In my opinion there shouldn´t be an addon that influences your 1. Recovery Speed, 2. Blink Distance, 3. Blink Window, 4. Blink Speed, 5. Fatigue, 6. Blink Number.
Thinks that her addons could do: 1. Apply status to the Survivors after getting hit, 2. Apply status to the Nurse after hitting, 3. Increase lunge distance, 4. Maybe even apply nightfall vision to someone for an iri addon after getting hit, 5. Give the nurse a rough indicator on where injured people are (Would fit her theme, might be too strong).
Saying shes hard is not an excuse for bringing broken stuff. Even a monkey can shoot with a gun and kill people, a sniper is just way better at it. Give her fun addons, not power altering ones, she doesn´t need those.
gl hf guys ^^
I think most addons in the game should be reworked to be things that alter how the killers play. You want to play Dredge with a slugging playstyle? OK. Make an addon to stuff downed survivors in lockers and they can't recover in that state lol. Things like that. Another good addon design is Plague's Iridescent Seal where you gain Corrupt Purge every generator pop at the expense of duration.
yeah let's give her addons that make her even stronger good idea
@@Felix-hv1li Where did you get that? It can't be physically stronger than altering her power xD I never said make them addons strong. No status in the game is currently as strong as double range on her. Make fat breath apply blindness or smt. idk. everything BUT the broken stuff she currently has. It just shouldn't be tempered with her power is all
@@kilzfordays Yeah, kind of. The dredge thing might be a little stupid though if they can't bleed out/get picked up or out of the locker. The idea is good though, maybe give Survivors in the locker smt to do so they dont get bored like skill checks to recover a bit like doctor snap out, maybe.
@@parrot9210 Yeah, other survivors can get them out after a certain time and it just gives them skill checks like a yellow glyph or merciless storm to keep them busy. But the idea with addons can be applied to other killers. One I especially have my eye on is Clown. He lacks so much well deserved and much needed variation despite how fun he is to play. Having other creative and interesting bottle types could help. For example, you could have a bottle which allows for extra lunge distances within the gas or one that makes distractions and distorted volume for the survivors like doctor hallucinations. Alternatively I think a bubba addons that removes tantrum at the cost of having one less charge or something would be great. Once more, an addon for Pinhead where the chain hunt is active the whole match but is less active with 4 people in the trial but it disables the ability to pick up or teleport to the box.
nurse doesn't require skill, i don't know why people think that lol
everything in this game requires skill, whether you see it or not
@@MrRubixscube shut up Patrick
@@MrRubixscube yeah, i guess standing still in front of a hooked survivor requires a lot of skill
Becasue nurse has a lot of depth to her, in my opinion people say nurse is way harder then she actually is but a lot of people say she doesn't have much to learn after learning the distances of blinks which I completely disagree with. And some nurse players in the comment section explain why. Learning stuff like building layouts for blinks, mind games based on distance, what to do based on suviours previous actions, reacting to movements suviours do while blinking, how to deal with different loops and how to deal with people breaking line of sight constantly on some maps. Nurse isn't as hard as hillbilly or blight imo but shes still harder then most killers in the game. She has more things to learn but these are some of the main things I thought of.
@@niceboy5559 they are just mad because so many people are saying their main does not require skill, (which is actually true)
half of the arguments you just brought to the table are a problem with any killer (such as indoor maps or survivors mindgaming), and the other half are the same argument but worded different.
"Learning stuff like building layouts for blinks, mind games based on distance, how to deal with different loops and how to deal with people breaking line of sight constantly on some maps." are just an extent of the same thing, which is namely, just learn to blink as a whole thing, and once you do that (which is not even that difficult) you are done.
also i don't think blight requires skill either, he's just braindead gameplay.
imo billy is by far the most difficult killer to play, by a lot.
Hey Scott, I know that tier lists are beaten to death at this point, especially for this game, but I would love to see one rating all of the killers' skill ceilings since that is something actually really relevant
I can't express how much joy it gives me to see Scott making a video saying something that I've always said since 2019 and now suddenly everyone in the community that once called me crazy now agrees with me.
“Cant sleep”
Has light beaming through his window.
Ya no wonder you can’t sleep bro it’s daytime lmao. Great vids Scotty keep it up man
Now we just need a tier list of Scott's hardest killer to play as
One hundred percent agree Scott. Nurse is the hardest killer to pick up because like you said she doesn't play DBD so you have to learn that your breaking the rules and the memory of a blink but after a few hours in custom with a friend you've kinda learned all she has to her. Now that's not to discredit Nurse players, but Billy has always been frustrating for me to try and play consistently. Not only is he somewhat map reliant, where you want a more open map. But all the little techs and quirks he has, he's always been one of my favorite killers to just hop in play some matches cause it always feels like I'm learning with him.
As the hardest killer to master I would actually put oni in that spot. Not only do you have a limited amount of time to use your power, you also have to learn accurate 180 flicks and hit very precise movements. If you have never seen a godlike oni just watch lipy, then you know how hard he is to master.
take this with a little bias because im a billy main since over 4 years. but i find oni alot ALOT easier because once you got is base down he plays himself while even if you are a perfect billy its till up to the survivor if you get the downs if they know how to go against a curve billy when oni came out my results on him where easy the most 4k's i had with a new killer maybe because iam a billy main and they kinda do the same thing but i think oni controlls are alot easier and alot more forgiving because sometimes you dont even hit in the survivors direction and they still go down because of the massiv swing hitbox billy doesnt have you have to be really precice with him :D
@@ChaoZzBladex I completly get what you are saying but I meant to master not to play. Completly agree that billy is harder to play in the beginning because his controls are way less forgiving than oni's dash, but in my opinion at least, to truly master oni there is more of a learning curve than there is to billy
@@Charybdis47 im not so sure on that tbh for me personally oni was pretty easy but i guess everybody is different and also learns different stuff easier or harder :3 i mean oni can do a hell of alot of fun tricks and learning those yeah that takes time but still that all depends on the player i mean some probably can play nurse 1000 times and still suck because i just dont get the hang of it same with blight i guess its the same with billy and oni aswell :D just up to who wants to learn it
Nurse's down time between blinks, failed hits and her slow movement speed punishes more the mistakes of a player trying to reach the skill floor. She is sorta like twins in that regard, where playing with her power while learning it becomes a deterrent and a gatekeep for players. That is something im ok with since not every killer has to be easy to learn.
Its also funny that new players (with no dlc) have access to some of the more weird killers to learn as a new player. Trapper may aswell be a killer that justs M1. Wraith changes the way how you aproach survivors and might become a crutch for new players. I agree with everything you say about billy, but also may add the limp he has during movement, I already talked about nurse and huntress is just so different to the rest.
Also i may add that every killer that ranks lower in tier list by default becomes the hardest to play due to their performance
I was shocked how fast it was to learn nurse when i tried recently. I picked her up during anniversary event. The only skill is how far in a straight line are you going.
Good video and great points Scott. However, I think when people say a killer is hard to "play" they mean to get base value out of. They essentially ARE talking about the skill floor. In which case Nurse is still correct. I think that you're right that Billy is hardest to master, but these are separate arguments entirely, the hardest killer to pickup remains Nurse, and THAT is what people are talking about when they say she's hardest to play.
As someone who mains both Nurse and Billy:
I fully agree!
Nurse is not hard at all. And Hillbilly takes not only mechanical skill, but also map knowledge, game sense and most importantly: luck! Because you need luck to not get screwed by BHVRs phantom hits (you hit but it doesnt count) and weird invisible meshes that you bumb with your saw into.
There's a decent chance this has been discussed in another video, but this brings to mind the idea that while skill should obviously be rewarded, it can't overwhelm a game's internal balance. Letting one or two players who are truly amazing get to use tools that bypass the gameplay loop everyone else plays (by instantly killing opponents, for instance) might seem fine on paper but functionally lets 99.9% of players know that they'll never be "good" and that they can't compete with the best as they're not even playing the same game.
I could be wrong, but I feel like Overwatch is a great example. Most folks were playing a team-focused shooter with abilities, relatively high TTK, and plenty of low skill characters that could still contribute to the team. Then, as the competitive community formed and the tournament scene took off, the demands of the highest level players quickly appeared to take overwhelming priority. This led to those "Starter Characters" getting reworked into more competitive variants, goofier aspects of the game getting flat-out removed in favor of more competitive ideas, and all this while the best of the best would still play characters like Hanzo and Genji and get to murder other players with impunity anyway. I basically stopped watching the tournaments when I noticed that the majority of match highlights were just an ulting Genji over and over and over.
That's my take. The rapidly shrinking Overwatch community could be due to other factors as well, but that's certainly my take.
I've played almost all killers in the game, personally I have to say that the ones I find the hardest to play are Billy, Blight and Trapper (trying to predict where my traps will actually do something)
been thinking this for a while - billy feels so much harder to properly learn & execute mechanics with than any other killer, fucking up with billy is also really punishing
on the other hand even an average nurse can do well with stuff like double recharge as there is barely any punishment for fucking up, she can also just ignore core gameplay elements which makes learning her way easier as there is literally only a single thing you have to learn which is how long to charge your blinks
I have to agree, I was terrified of playing as Nurse when I first started playing killer, so I didnt touch her for a long time. But, when I DID give her a go, it took me a couple of days to get used to her, and then she easily carried me to rank 1. Playing as Billy on the other hand has always been foreign to me, and I still only really chainsaw for distance, and when I'm in surv's faces.
I feel like an argument can be made for artist
I've always had a 2 way gauge for killer difficulty... 1. How much knowledge of the game you need to complete at an optimal play level.
And 2. How much mechanical skill does it take to make the power function at its best....
For the 1st metric overall I'd argue blight requires the most knowledge for your average player... but for competitive viability at a higher level of play I like to put trapper as one of the top knowledge needy killers.
At a low level trappers meant to be easy to play, but quickly survivors get better and better and at this level of play, trapper placement and macro has to be absolutely mind bogglingly perfect, and unpredictable.
For the mechanical killers id argue Billy and pyramid head has the most mechanically precise powers in the game, Billy requiring sharp mouse movement for curves, and distance gauging like no other killer to get downs at loops.
While pyramid head has 1 frame to flick his power making it very difficult to learn at first and very hard to time consistently
As a ph main. The amount of times I predicted someone vaulting and still whiffimg despite it being linear is painful to think about lol. I'm glad I'm seeing people acknowledge how difficult it can be to Master him at tiles. The game is harder when survivors greed pallets because they're confident enough that they're dead hards are gonna carry them and they'll make a big blunder and pre drop and I'm the one that's punished because they can press E for free allowing my attack and outplay mean nothing. It also feels demoralizing to play him sometimes. But I keep going cuz he is a fun boyo
@@MrPherae well the earthquake has travel time so #1 thing is to compensate for that, the further they are away the further you have to lead your shot.
At windows you can easily miss by fireing too late, however mastering the pyramid head flick is the only way to make him a viable anti-loop, otherwise your power is only a pallet mindgame and nothing more.
@@theswiftphil8789 yeah his flicks are important and really hard to get consistently. Sometimes I throw matches on purpose because I need the experience of getting his flicks down
We go from talking about getting good results to mastering. Which is it?
Recently I did all adepts for killer (I’m a hard survivor main so I’d only had like 10 hours as killer out of 600 hours) and hillbilly was by far the hardest adept to do. I did his adept later so I was in higher MMR matches and I remember my first two games I ran into Atleast 15 walls each. One of the survivors complemented me for using my chainsaw a lot since he never sees many Billys do it, it’s cause it’s so damn hard to.
When I want to play a low-stress game where I can guarantee a few kills (like for the archives or something) I play Nurse. She was pretty easy to pick up, I found the reflexes I developed from Huntress applied to her blinks some (same for Demo, Slinger, and Twins), and I can do relatively well just using brown add-ons.
Not so much with Billy and Blight. Learning them can be infuriating and I commend anyone who tries.
I agree Hillbilly and Blight (even Oni in that regard) are really hard to master and are way harder to figure out than a nurse.
You need to predict the ''line'' you take 1-2 seconds before you actually do it and even if you do it 100% perfect you probably still end
up bumping into some obstacle and be like ''meh''.
They are really fun and feel pretty exhausting to play because of the concentration you need to put in but they are also the most fun ones.
I can't even imagine how it must feel to do insane curves with a billy, flicks (baitflicks) with a blight or the 180/360 Oni Hit.
Thats why you need to respect such players because even i who wrote this gave up on them because you are gonna SWEAT
Something I find both interesting and a little bit sad is the fact that a lot of the killers have the POTENTIAL to be very hard to master, but there is just an easier (and often less fun) way to play them that is just as effective if not better. In short: the most skillful play sometimes isn't the most effective, in part because in some cases more skill is only required when handicapping.
Case in point: Twins. Controlling Victor (minus things like the punishing cooldown after every leap) is a ton of fun and can be a bit tricky as you go for trickshots and such. But instead the focus is often more on splitting the pressure for efficient slugging and camping. Now, you don't HAVE to play that way, but it's definitely the easiest way to play to win.
Similar but different and potentially worse case: Hag (and to some extent Trapper). The strategy of efficient trap placement is deeply interesting to me, and yet you see so much that's reduced to "place trap at hook" or "set trap in loop in chase" (okay if done right the second can be fun for Killer if you're creative, but most people aren't). If you don't do those things, the game becomes a lot more interactive and challenging (although this doesn't necessarily make one weaker) because you're having to predict things with survivors, and they're having to predict you, and it becomes a back-and-forth of trying to be the surpriser rather than the surprised and to bait one another. But instead everyone just traps in the "simple" way that gets easy results. And so everyone hates Hag, even though the POTENTIAL for skilled play is there (please make hooks not allow traps near BHVR as a former Hag main I beg you I'm so tired of seeing campy Hags who don't know how to actually strategize).
Interesting cases: Trickster. The iridescent add-on that forces you to not miss blades is infinitely more fun and interesting than playing him normally because you have to actually aim rather than having a machine gun. Why couldn't we have that? ;-; but instead it's an imprecise mess. I know he can seem fun to play because of the lethality in chase, but to be honest I find him aggressively boring because once I know how to point and click I basically win. Deathslinger also has this problem.
And so on and so forth.
TLDR: Playing in the most skillful ways often isn't the most efficient.
If billy is the hardest killer to master and nurse very low, then what's the easiest killer to master ? myers or legion ?
I'd throw trapper in the mix here. Not only do you need to know how to chase properly, but consistently getting value out of your traps requires a whole other level of map understanding and survivor mentality. He also has a power that survivors can take away from him (disarming traps) and unlike the Hag, he doesn't automatically get disarmed traps back in his possession. Any map pressure he can generate tends to have nothing to do with his power (unlike multiple killers including billy) but is more a product of good playing. Weakest and most difficult killer to play effectively but the sound of a survivor stepping into a well-placed trap is easily the most satisfying thing in the game
Funny you make this video, because I used to be completely unable to play Nurse whatsoever when I was on a lower-spec system. The choppiness combined with the forced camera movement after a blink would make me physically nauseous. However, once I procured a new rig able to play at a consistent 120+ FPS and 1440p (along with Shadowborn), all of that went away...and quickly I learned that she's nowhere near difficult to play once you have a solid foundation of map knowledge.
Once you take away pallets and windows, survivors really only have a select number of movement options to avoid getting hit. Nurse is simply about correctly predicting which they will utilize, and then having the reaction time to capitalize in turn. This is even easier if using double range to reduce the time survivors have to react to your movements. Playing her is an exercise in boredom.
I fully agree with you on blight and hillbilly being harder to master than nurse that being said I think you are downplaying nurses difficulty when she IS NOT running distance add ons. In my opinion it requires a lot of skill and intelligence to play nurse well and read survivors and how they move especially in the DH meta. That being said that meta is getting nerfed and I think we will see less DHs and nurse will get a stronger. However literally nothing I said applies to range add on nurse. With normal nurse a good juke can gain the survivors a lot of distance and leave the nurse in a bad spot that can really screw them while omega blink nurse literally just teleports right back onto the survivor with one blink.
Can't believe I've been called a Chad by Scott. This is epic.
I think Pyramid Head is to learn at the top level. He played like huntress with a slower firing ranged attack that you can hit people through walls with, and to land 100% of the M2s you go for is probably one of the hardest things to achieve in DBD
As a pyramid head main myself, I appreciate the acknowledgement first of all. But I do somewhat agree he's pretty difficult to master. Even casual matches can be penalizing cuz we can't Crossmap snipe like huntress can but we make up for extremely oppressive chases and being one of the strongest tunnelers in the game if set up correctly. But pyramid heads power being super telegraphed to survivors is hard. You can't consistently land m2 through walls because if they're smart enough, they'll always be right out of the edge of his power. Sometimes I envy huntress players for being able to snipe at long distances cuz that first hit really helps.
@@MrPherae while huntress may be able to get cross map hits however, it is extremely rare against a good team and to a team who is paying attention I find, and PH’s anti looping abilities are just superior to huntress on most tiles for the simple fact it can go through walls and he’s 115. Even if survs try to dodge the M2 he zones people better than huntress too in certain areas and I still stand by him being definitely top 3 or 4 perhaps in highest skill ceilings
@@Matt-vf5uz I've never felt so validated as a pyramid head main lmao I appreciate your thoughts on him. Makes me feel extremely motivated to keep grinding him
@@MrPherae Hey I'm just putting it how it is lol. Definitely a hidden gem in DBD good luck out there :D
Hands down Bubba is the hardest killer to play cause one little leaf can make you tantrum.
I would argue slightly about the definition of skill ceiling, but your observations I absolutely agree. Seeing a top skill hillbilly able to predict behavior while chain dashing is impressive, and is much more difficult then slight predictions that an equivalent nurse needs to do.
I agree. I've tried Nurse and after a bit of rough games, I was starting to get consistent results. Blight and Hillbilly are rough to play and master, given since they still have to obey the laws of physics that the entity made, but forgot when nurse is there.
It's confirmed, the entity is a simp.
No one really mentions that post nerf Slinger is extremely difficult to perform consistently good with. You need to know the distance between you and the survivor, if they are in range, if they are in range how much do you lead by, how good is the survivor's reaction time, will they juke in response to the shot, do you need to hold ADS for a bit to throw off their timing, can you shoot through this pinhole, where can you shoot over this loop, which loops can you actually land a hit after harpooning someone... and missing a single shot and then reloading costs you something like 12m of distance. Also knowing whether to reel while walking forward or backward after a specific shot, and whether to even reel at all so you can make the chain last just a few moments longer
He's like Billy in that you need to learn each individual loop and how to play it. Billy needs to know if he can curve, and how to curve that specific loop. Slinger needs to know where you can shoot someone through a pinhole or over an obstacle at a specific loop, and how to reel them to guarantee a hit.
I'm also fairly certain that his harpoon only cares about hitting survivor meshes, not about hitting their collision. So he's also the only killer in the game where the survivor you are playing against makes a major difference. Jane is easy to shoot since she is dummy thicc, Jeff can be shot over many obstacles where other survivors cannot be shot, and Nea cannot be shot in many loops due to her short stature. Generally shorter, skinnier survivors are harder to hit than taller, wider survivors (obviously).
It’s Small-Mountain William.
Is why I'm proud to be a Billy main. Nurse or ez no dif
Definitely billy or blight but im gonna give it to blight at a high level simply because flicking with him is so physically demanding, I literally break my bones trying to hit a 4° flick. With billy i feel like if you can flick without overturning and hitting the loop you’re good, hard part is the timing.
Isn’t the answer to this to fuck with dpi or whatever and pull off turns that Blight was not supposed to do?
@@ExhaustedWombat dpi makes it easier but it is still mega hard and you have to still learn how to do those things. Everyone just says it makes it ultra easy, but as a blight main trust me it doesnt