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Absolutely agree, playing some of the specs with more visuals just feels extremely good. Idc if it barely changes my damage, if the visual is cool af I am happy.
Yeah. I have no reason to complain though. My main is Shadow Priest, and the aesthetic is perfect. Something so enjoyable in shooting black holes at your enemy and have it rip them to shreds
Every hero spec across all the classes should really push the hero-fantasy down our throats. To the hilt. The Dark Ranger "wings" are a great representation, same goes for the Mage spheres floating over their shoulders. Visually, they show off exactly what you are, and gameplay should reflect that. Yet, there are classes that feel relatively untouched. The Vengeance DH, for example, is still basically the same exact thing it always was. Neither hero spec changes it in any meaningful way, whatsoever. I hope they polish all the classes upwards, so they can all look and feel as exciting as some of the favorites.
This is one thing i love about Stormbringer for Shaman. You ARE the storm. You get a big new giga-nuke, you fire off rapid chain lightnings, it's so fun and feels so good to hit a Crit Tempest. Kinda wish it was better for raids than Farseer because i much prefer the thematic and visuals of it than Farseer.
That's because vengeance was an after thought and the lore about it is .. nothing exciting. They should've given the DH a Warden like spec/hero talents to at least explore something new.
@@Kumire_921 Even Havoc is the same. Neither Hero spec adds anything of value to the class. One throws glaives, and the other is a demon. Literally just Havoc and Vengeance, plus one. Underwhelming, to say the least. A Warden is what hunted Illidan. That would make absolutely no sense, lore-wise, for DHs. The Illidari had some of the best Summoners, which could have been an extremely interesting choice if done correctly. You could make it so the player weaves his summons into their combat flow, temporarily calling forth Naga, the Broken, or Shivari to their side to perform combo attacks before they vanish back into the Fel. They also had Akama as one of their leaders, which would allow the teachings of the Deathsworn, possibly allowing for a mix of Rogue-like mechanics that play off their innate stealth abilities. End of the day, DHs are one of many classes that just don't have a proper Hero vibe for all their specs. Warcraft isn't short on flair, it will just take a bit more effort to (hopefully) give the ones that are currently lacking a bump.
@@mikelafaille I was thinking of the corrupted fel wardens we see in legion, they use glaives and give a dh vibe. We'll never get it as a class so having it as a subclass would be cool. What you said is also interesting though, a support focused spec and summoning Naga sounds interesting but it'd be hard to not make it into a warlock 2.0.
Hot take: Hero talent actives should all replace an existing spell/skill and the passives should all be new. That way theres no more button bloat and it makes it more difficult to have your rotation stay the same.
Now they need to address the Druid Hero Talents and make some of them feel like they ACTUALLY do something rather than just give us bland, boring passive effects on our old rotations.
Add hunter to the list. Sure dark ranger got some attention, but sentinel and especially pack leader have almost no audio visual goodies. Or gameplay goodies
honestly I wish keeper of the grove gave us a new son/daughter of cenarius shape shift form that replaces boomkin. just replace abilities with new names, animations, & nature damage... I would play that hero talent for the customization and fantasy alone
@@SouthwestD313I'm a very casual dip in and out player, really started with Legion, and I'm currently leveling a dk for this. Running things down on a mount just seems like a cool class fantasy and I hope it stays and gets expanded on.
Eh I think one of the bigger issues with Rogue Hero Talents is they lack identity. Deathstalker at least has some lore to rely on. The other two just feel like they pulled words out of a hat.
Yeah, reminds me of the destruction Warlock situation, but worse. If they're going to change up gameplay with subclass offerings like this, they really do need to relate strongly to the chosen specs they interact with 😅
I love the "control your own luck" cosmic lore tied to an outlaw rogue, just wish they would go a little more cosmic with it. Make feint give you a more dimensional buff or something
At this point it just is what it is, expect a prune in the next couple expansions and then a repeat in the process. I been playing for a long time, it's clear that the pacing of the game is tuned for the modern audience and players like me are being pushed out.
The only thing hero talents do is bloat. Nothing interesting about them. I only play warlock and stopped because the class plays very bad now after I got the hero talents. I hope they remove them in Midnight but that is very unlikely.
Shadow-pan was super disappointing mechanically for BrewMaster. It forces you to get Weapons of Order or that other talent which I want to ignore. Removing my choice in talent tree. It also forces you to go duel handed, since the main point of the hero tree is to trigger a lot of attacks. One of which is to gain stacking haste if you attack fast enough. (which doesn't work with a two hander) Meanwhile the icon is a monk using a pole-arm and the iconic brewmaster weapon is a staff from legion.
Wish they would put more glyphs in the game so you could customize your abilities. Warlock got some of the coolest ones like rain of fire green instead of red. want other specs to have more aswell like mm hunter could use change colour of rapid fire or arcane shot would have some ramp up light before you release it. Alot of things to be wished for. Just make them not work in pvp and we are good
I've been going crazy trying to get blizzards attention to something like this. Shadow priests NEED the ability to customize our shadowform in some way, even just letting us use previous expansion versions of the form would be enough. I'm just so tired of running around in a purple fart cloud, this isn't how shadow is supposed to look. Lol
Blood DK needs a complete rework for San'layn. Suits the spec so much better vs Deathbringer but its just no where near as good as it. Would be cool to see it get Blood beast every 45secs or so. Could have a talent that swaps Ghoul for blood beast.
Hot take but the only visually impressive hero talent is the death knight riders one. The fact the majority are so unnoticeable that mountain thane / mage phoenix were getting praised shows how low the bar was.
I'm biased and new but I do find DH to be visually appealing and even impressive at times. Especially when someone better than me is piloting the high mobility build. Statically I find the graphics a bit dull but like raiding with a guild and the promise of an endgame that people expect to work together to do.
Deathbringer is badass af with the scythes, Templar pala is also pretty ok, from what I play Atleast. What do you really expect? They can’t really add 1000 new spells to the game. Ok maybe they could recolor/texture spells. I’d rather it feels great to press and looks good aswell
I honestly like the hero talents so far, some more in depth class fantasy, some visuals and new stuff. Can’t speak for every class/spec of course, only playing Retribution Paladin / Guardian Druid / Windwalker Monk right now, but they all feel very nice to play in my opinion.
Anyone else feel like all of these changes are things they should've done during well idk, BETA?? It feels like they don't test the game at all they just release it and take feedback later
Yup. It's sad that we've collectively been conditioned to have a "better late than never" mentality with Blizzard instead of expecting them to do things with better planning and responsiveness
@@Giliver If it's the entire gaming industry (it's actually not), and Blizzard is an integral part of that industry, then you can't say it's not Blizzard! Plus, we're talking specifically about Blizzard here. When we say things like "it's not just ___, it's every/all ___", we're shifting scrutiny off the developer/publisher in question and dispersing it across lots of vague entities. It's never helpful to us gamers, as it allows individual companies to dodge their responsibilities.
Sooo... i love the hero talent system so far. And i also love my sub rogue hero talents (both are fun even if trickster is just better for what im doing atm.) But i do have a complaint about it that... well i dont SEE any difference in gameplay other than numbers, and hearing the occasional audio feedback of an extra slice.
Been BM for 20 yrs I play hunter for the pets I was so excited for pack leader... it's a nothing burger! Gimme more pets cool stuff to do with them I want to have a pack!
Same here... when I heard the Name "Pack Leader" I was so sold on beeing one as BM... and then we got the talents and i thought "Yeah... nice... I guess I will be a Dark Ranger with Pets" and gladly numbers also showed this... They should have made Packleader Like Demo-Lock... ether let us throw a army of pets at our enemies (like WL with his imps) or let us Summon a Pet like Rexxar has Misha and make it stronger and Stronger... Or do some things before and the better we do it, the more powerful this Pet will get when summoned (Like Tyrrant from WL). And what did we get? Kill Command enhances Kill Command, Barbed Shoot, Barbed Shoot and if you use Call of the Wild, both are better for this time... WOW... so much not WoW -.-
I´m not a hunter player at all but i think it would be kinda cool if the pack leader would have an ability or passive that you summon a random pets (or set favorites) from your stable an do special attacks( for example an stampede ability with many ones attacking or a proc that target get ambushed and a pet pounces out of the shadows do a nasty attack). I think bm-mains would like such a thing so they can show of passivly their collection of beasts or just use the ones they are like the most. they could be many diffrent abilities i guess what those beasts could do as attacks . i just liked the idea that you can show others what or how many diffrent beasts you were able to tame over the years and everyone can see and enjoy them. (instead of just rotting in the stable and never get any attention at all).
That would be great, at this point I would just settle for pack leader being in the same range of dps tuning as dark ranger so I dont feel forced to go ranger or totally gimp my group :( Feels bad being forced to choose a hero tree I dislike because its so completely outperforming the other tree in single and multi target, m+ and raid...
What they can do for the hero talents is add more onto the existing ones for the next two expansions so then by the third expansion for the saga, it will be like having a third talent tree.
Deathbringer is swoosh swish simulator. Exterminate gives me so much dopamine. Definitely my favourite hero talent. The best part is unholy doesn't get it.
Herald of the sun could make it so after you use Wake of Ashes - you do an animation where a chain made of light drops from the sky - you pull it down and a light aoe drops down. Its supposed to simulate being a "herald" of the sun. Your pulling light magic from the sun down to smite enemies.
when we drop that time frame on how long ago green fire was added... and then remember it was asked for in VANILLA due to seeing all the green fire effects on fel casters even in low level areas...
I have played WoW since late beta with an expansion break when my wife got sick and was put on hospice and honestly while I miss some talents that were scrapped in multiple classes for the most part I think that classes are really good currently. I have at least one of every class at at least lvl 70 and there really isn't a class that I dont log on and enjoy playing. sure some can use some tweaks and reshuffling of tallent locations in the tree but all in all I dont feel constrained and enjoy just messing around with the trees. I have multiple characters of the same class specifically to experiment with the tallents and not just rely on WoWHead or Icy to lay out the talents for the "best" build and make those chars my own just for fun. WoW is in a great state right now and I'm really digging it. Thanks for being a voice for the player base and putting all this great info out man!
I wish they would add extra cosmetic options for some of the classes. Like green fire for fire mage or blue fire. Autumn red leaves for resto druid spells. Dark energy levitate for priests.
I don't understand why shadow has flash heal as their healing spell, what ever happened to shadow mend? (Or whatever it was called) Also for the love of god PLEASE just let us use previous visual iterations of shadowform, the current one is by far the ugliest and I can't stand looking at it.(Shadow priest? Nah more like fart cloud priest)
Watching the Overlord run up to its target and just… twitching about like it’s having a seizure before harmlessly dissipating back to the nether was quite the wet noodle. I expected to see it for the majority of the expansion, tbh. Glad to see someone’s looking out for us.
I really really hope Warrior Herotalents get a good look at. Not only are both DPS Speccs locked into Slayer as Collossus is just worse and a lot clunkier. Slayer is also just straight up uninteractive passives only and locking us into Bladestorm. Generally having Herotalents on Classes that require you to use specific other Talents, which you don't always want (Meteor for Frostfire Herotalented Fire Mage is another example) just feel soooo awful.
That's the dumbest shit about hero talents, focusing around optional, non-baseline abilities. They did that with some tier sets and somehow thought it's a good idea.
Hero talents would be a great way to give that extra push for people to play their " Witch doctor and Shadow hunter " type class without adding a full-on new Class with its own issues, they can also add little "flare" quests for the talents to add some more lore for people to get into.
With Evoker being, basically, a racial class. We should really get a Worgen racial hero talent that reskins all your melee attacks with claw attacks for physical melee classes
Wow! My highmountain hunter will just love looking like a high elven dark ranger! Thankfully if he doesn't like that, he has the option to instead look like a night elven warden!
I really wish Feral had access to the Elune talent tree like Guardian. Neither Druid of the Claw or Wildstalker feel very heroic, flashy or cool. It's just a moment where a proc happens and then I either get stronger dots with no different sfx or a stronger Feroicious Bite, with like a larger Brutal Slash sfx. I might deal more damage, but impact wise, it just doesn't feel visceral. But let me tell you. A Guardian druid with that elune hero talent? You notice when they start summoning lasers from the sky. Lmao. Maybe a sun based one for Feral would be cool, since Season of Discovery gave us Sunfire. As Feral, I really enjoy managing DoTs. If I was able to use Sunfire too, I'd be having a blast, literally. Druid of the Claw itself just doesn't strike me as a good choice for either Feral or Guardian, imo. Just lots of passives that could have been placed in the actual trees instead.
I read somewhere that the farseer spirits should start showing up with older shaman tier sets. That will be more visually interesting than the current basic spirits we have now.
Idk why the hero talents for Druids don’t give Druid form customisations that are exclusive to the hero talents. Boomy really needs some love neither hero talents do anything in terms of visuals or gameplay really. How about a full nature based owlkin customisations for keeper of the grove? Then for the elunes chosen one new flashy moonkin form vfx like the fire vfx but luna since they are already luna themed anyway.
I'm really sad with the San'layn changes for Blood DK , Having a full vampiric build was so cool. But they are changing the trigger to Runic Weapon instead. The issue being that Runic weapon cooldowns with bone charges , so taking bone storm and tombstone is incentivised, and this feel more Death related closer to death bringer thematic. With current setup you can forego this talents for more Vampiric blood time, and the shield at the end of Vampiric blood and be more blood themed on your talents. And gameplay wise this was also good. You usually pull a bunch of mobs, activate vampiric blood an then go to town with vampiric strike to sustain the early big pack damage. And if you played it correctly you basically had 15-20 secs of cooldown on vampiric blood. So actually this cd time is where you would pop other defensives so you could hold on until your next Vampiric blood came of cooldown. Another cool thing is on Delves since Vampiric blood is considered a defensive you can use the Curio that using a defensive with more than 45sec cooldown heals health%. Which made your heal during Vampiric Blood awesomely epic. I really like that gameplay loop and hopefully Blizzard reconsiders it.
Just give us a Tinkerer class alrdy Blizzard!!!! I'm an MM goblin hunter engineer, I don't care about dark ranger or sentinel, I want tech and mechanical gubbins, but I'd be very happy to reroll to Tinkerer!!!!!
I wish they would chill on things like "your a dark ranger now" or "a hunter of elune" Cool visual effects? Yes please But making every subclass super specific to a faction or npc? Please no. My dwarf hunter doesn't want to be a sentinel or dark ranger.
@@Leeloo-Foxx Exactly! It would also be a big W for Blizzard because people would really like that and it would be a system they could easily do additions to over time instead of creating hundreds of options on one go.
yes, and my orc warrior don´t want to be a mountain thane. Btw i think it´s a missed opportunity not do some kind of " gunslinger" as a hero talent that uses a gun. I don´t get the "Leader of the pack" either, that´s already in the game or as beastmaser
@@charlesquigley4383 hmm yea i didn´t see it from that perspective, you´re absoluty right. The pack leader is actually the "neutral" , if i would play a hunter i maybe would have made the same choice :) . Dark ranger also is more of a horde/forsaken thing in my opinion. It easily can destroy the whole vibe of a character when it doesnt match at all. For nelfs it´s great but for most races it doesnt fit at all.
And Feral Druids feel like a gimped version of WotLK. More button mashing, less DPS. At least with Guardian I can shift quickly to add some cat bleeds (which only apply’s in solo play)
I personally think they should keep adding more hero talent trees for every class that way over time we have a wider class fantasy collection. And also, please blizzard let Hunters choose the spec for any pet they want and just give Hunters a small pet talent tree consisting of the already existing abilities and perhaps maybe some minor passives like before, this would add so much to the hunter class.
Give me a battlemage skin over warriors with an interesting questline of the Kirin Tor giving a crash course on magic, and I'll be happy. I roleplay a battlemage/spellsword in-game, and it frustrates me to no end that I can't be one without playing my shaman. ;-; ...Oh, and electromancer over Arcane. B)
@@smokeythagamer8521 Yes, but those aren't the fantasy I want. I love pally and DK, but I'd like one that's for arcane, too. They could easily just change a lot of abilities' colors purple, and I'd be happy. XD
I REALLY hope they leave Shadow Priest alone. Legit the most fun class I’ve played in a long time. It’s just satisfying as hell to send a black hole into a group of mobs and rip them to shreds
Meanwhile Fatebound Rogue still just craps out a coin occasionally and gets a buff so insignificant that you barely feel it. And Blizzard thought that was a more important class fantasy than something like, oh, I don't know... A pirate?
@@Krunkeridleios Well then I have good news for you. If they had made a hero talent tree for being a pirate you wouldn't have had to play it. So if you have an issue with being awesome then there's an lamer alternative for you to pick.
I gave enhance spec a try and i have been pleasantly surprised. It is way better than anything in the last 15 years. Looking forward to more improvements.
Currently maining an enhancement shaman! In my 13 years of wow I've never been able to get behind it but it feels great now! ... Tho I will say, hero talents are a bit underwhelming for em
Great to see they arent doing anything to Mistweaver monk even though Master of Harmony is literally so weak it may as well not even exist 👍 thanks blizz
Frost mage needs some visual love at least with some damage tweaks. Frost fire, your frost bolt and meter are the only changes, spellslinger is just more frozen orb.
Hunters: "I can be a Dark Ranger now! It affects one of my core abilities, it does cool thematic shit with my disengage and my procs, and my Damage CDs!" Druid: "Sometimes there's vines on my enemies. Or more moon-effects on Moonkin... Class tree still in shambles."
This gives me a tiny bit of hope that they will look at druid, but I have to say I'm disappointed that we haven't heard anything about that yet. Wildstalker and Keeper both does literally nothing to gameplay (especially not for resto). It's just passively there. Elune's Chosen is a cool concept (letting you focus on the whole astronomy theme), but in reality the only gameplay change it gives is remove the Eclipse system. While the Eclipse system itself is bad and needs a complete rework, simply removing it makes the spec extremely bland. Not sure how Guardian / Feral are, but resto and balance certainly got screwed over here.
Wonder how much longer before they pull the lever for some kind of multi-class (with restrictions). Can't imagine there's many more new ways to uniquely change our characters without going back to borrowed power. More rows within the talent trees is nice n' all but yea. Dunno where you go from here.
I see an issue coming up in the future with hero talents being how to build off of them further without turning into the same issue they ended up with for normal talents. Theyre great to 80, but what happens when the cap is 90? 100? 120? Could we see another numbers squish somewhere down the line just to keep it all neat and in order?
Can we get glyphs that change ability looks but require a specify hero talent choice. Like strombringer shaman get a much more storm elemental look for assendance
I think Blizzard did themselves a big favor by deciding to do a trilogy. Normally they would be able to basically run away from their mistakes by having the next expac overwrite them. Now they can't and it's showing. Now it's a matter of if the lessons stick.
any chance of ferals hero talents not being boring? doesnt make me feel heroic. i dont want to heal more or tank more, i want to feral more. thanks. btw, the part where u were talking about the BfA cinematic making the Dark Ranger seem so cool, "then the game happened", had me lmao.
As a feral main since the beginning. I agree. Both the choices for Feral suck and are dull. Meanwhile, Guardian gets to summon lasers and deal arcane damage.
We just need to raise our expectations of the developers. They make almost 200k a year to develop expansions that make you feel you are in a beta until it is almost over
My Diabolist Destro lock is kinda insane... When I am in a dungeon crit with 'Ruination' and see 5-10% of it's health just disappear is insane and satisfying, I hit lvl 80 and was doing baseline 600k DPS, my Arcane mage couldn't keep up with my destro lock if he tried with all his might... To say I love my destro lock is an understatement, it's really nice to have a destro lock that once again hits' like someone threw the moon at you (sorry druids but your 'full moon' ability doesn't hit like it really should be.)
Ele sham ancestor talents are so strong, its literally elemental mastery on steroids. Which completely removes the reason for having mastery, as an elemental shaman.
Now if Blizz could just fix Death Knight’s, Death & Decay to proc like Paladin’s Concentrate and have Rune generation work more efficiently like Holy power.
Savanna isn’t just a dark ranger though that’s the issue if your comparing her to a dark ranger. She is a banshee and that was what she turned into that had nothing to do with dark ranger 😂
Hero talents should make me feel like I'm a goddam hero, not just be 30% more healing/damage for whatever ability; that's just numbers inflation that don't mean a single damn thing overall in the big scheme of things. Also, hero talents shouldn't be tied to particular end of tree talents, because that cookie cutters me into having to choose those end of tree talents instead of others, and when you have a choice that actually isn't a choice but rather mandatory, or else your guy becomes broken...well, then you've failed. I may not even like the talent(s) that the hero tree is based around, it might not fit my preferred playstyle. Any ability leveraged in the hero talent trees need to either be baseline, or placed suchly in the talent tree that you can't avoid picking it on your way down (IE, quite high up, in other words.)
I think hero talents changed nothing for fury warriors or arms warriors. They should do something about that, also, ranged warrior class that plays like Draven in league would be cool.
Need to address the damn mythic dungeons. Especially mists and grim batol. Last both in both are just ridiculous. Green every where then purple every where.
They need to add more hero talent trees for some classes, because the fantasy of many fits only specific races. Like Hunter has two very specific hero talent trees that I feel are very restricted. Dark Ranger is basically a Blood Elf talent tree, perhaps undead but I would say to really get the Dark Ranger fantasy that works in the universe, you have to be a Blood Elf. Sentinel is very Night Elf centered, perhaps Tauren can also work in some cases. But both of these are just so specific for certain character fantasies. Hunter really lack that engineer and gun type hero class.
ngl my big wish for next patch is a buff to holy paladin flash of light and holy light. they feel SO ANEMIC compared to every other healer equivalent quick/slow bread and butter heals. holy priest heals for literally double on their equivalent spells lol
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@@BellularGaming no
I feel like the hero talents need more cosmetic stuff
They just need to start reintroducing fun class quests that give cosmetic changes like green fire.
Absolutely agree, playing some of the specs with more visuals just feels extremely good. Idc if it barely changes my damage, if the visual is cool af I am happy.
Yeah. I have no reason to complain though. My main is Shadow Priest, and the aesthetic is perfect. Something so enjoyable in shooting black holes at your enemy and have it rip them to shreds
WITH GLYPHS
Should, have been like the wl green fire quest!
Meanwhile Rogues drop unnoticeable coin on the ground that gives unnoticeable buff XDD
A "Hero" talent at home.
Every hero spec across all the classes should really push the hero-fantasy down our throats. To the hilt. The Dark Ranger "wings" are a great representation, same goes for the Mage spheres floating over their shoulders. Visually, they show off exactly what you are, and gameplay should reflect that. Yet, there are classes that feel relatively untouched. The Vengeance DH, for example, is still basically the same exact thing it always was. Neither hero spec changes it in any meaningful way, whatsoever.
I hope they polish all the classes upwards, so they can all look and feel as exciting as some of the favorites.
This is one thing i love about Stormbringer for Shaman. You ARE the storm. You get a big new giga-nuke, you fire off rapid chain lightnings, it's so fun and feels so good to hit a Crit Tempest. Kinda wish it was better for raids than Farseer because i much prefer the thematic and visuals of it than Farseer.
That's because vengeance was an after thought and the lore about it is .. nothing exciting. They should've given the DH a Warden like spec/hero talents to at least explore something new.
@@Kumire_921 Even Havoc is the same. Neither Hero spec adds anything of value to the class. One throws glaives, and the other is a demon. Literally just Havoc and Vengeance, plus one. Underwhelming, to say the least.
A Warden is what hunted Illidan. That would make absolutely no sense, lore-wise, for DHs. The Illidari had some of the best Summoners, which could have been an extremely interesting choice if done correctly. You could make it so the player weaves his summons into their combat flow, temporarily calling forth Naga, the Broken, or Shivari to their side to perform combo attacks before they vanish back into the Fel. They also had Akama as one of their leaders, which would allow the teachings of the Deathsworn, possibly allowing for a mix of Rogue-like mechanics that play off their innate stealth abilities.
End of the day, DHs are one of many classes that just don't have a proper Hero vibe for all their specs. Warcraft isn't short on flair, it will just take a bit more effort to (hopefully) give the ones that are currently lacking a bump.
@@mikelafaille I was thinking of the corrupted fel wardens we see in legion, they use glaives and give a dh vibe. We'll never get it as a class so having it as a subclass would be cool. What you said is also interesting though, a support focused spec and summoning Naga sounds interesting but it'd be hard to not make it into a warlock 2.0.
Hot take: Hero talent actives should all replace an existing spell/skill and the passives should all be new.
That way theres no more button bloat and it makes it more difficult to have your rotation stay the same.
Now they need to address the Druid Hero Talents and make some of them feel like they ACTUALLY do something rather than just give us bland, boring passive effects on our old rotations.
Add hunter to the list. Sure dark ranger got some attention, but sentinel and especially pack leader have almost no audio visual goodies. Or gameplay goodies
Sounds like Rogue.
Everyone keeps calling me crazy when I keep telling them how mad the Druids were about the hero talents.
honestly I wish keeper of the grove gave us a new son/daughter of cenarius shape shift form that replaces boomkin.
just replace abilities with new names, animations, & nature damage... I would play that hero talent for the customization and fantasy alone
Affliction lock checking in
Tbh nothing they could do for the other DK hero talents could compare to the sheer utility and cool factor of being able to ride a mount in combat.
They should add it to indoors too. Even if they make the mounted speed the same as your running speed indoors.
@@SouthwestD313I'm a very casual dip in and out player, really started with Legion, and I'm currently leveling a dk for this. Running things down on a mount just seems like a cool class fantasy and I hope it stays and gets expanded on.
They really do need to add this effect to indoors. I need that!!!
Hero talents just need big, obvious, overwatch-level cosmetic stuff. Still waiting on anduins bubble shield :(
Eh I think one of the bigger issues with Rogue Hero Talents is they lack identity. Deathstalker at least has some lore to rely on. The other two just feel like they pulled words out of a hat.
Yeah, reminds me of the destruction Warlock situation, but worse. If they're going to change up gameplay with subclass offerings like this, they really do need to relate strongly to the chosen specs they interact with 😅
Shado Pan as well. Shado Pans aren't even mostly monks. There are warriors hunters mages in the shado pan...
And the fact that they linked trickster to fucking killing spree makes no one want to play this talents
I love the "control your own luck" cosmic lore tied to an outlaw rogue, just wish they would go a little more cosmic with it. Make feint give you a more dimensional buff or something
When is rogue going to get some actual love especially sub rogues
I think hero talent could be better, but I also don’t want more button bloat. Already have enough as it is.
At this point it just is what it is, expect a prune in the next couple expansions and then a repeat in the process. I been playing for a long time, it's clear that the pacing of the game is tuned for the modern audience and players like me are being pushed out.
The only thing hero talents do is bloat.
Nothing interesting about them.
I only play warlock and stopped because the class plays very bad now after I got the hero talents.
I hope they remove them in Midnight but that is very unlikely.
They could just make them passives/perks like diabolist destro WL has
Shadow-pan was super disappointing mechanically for BrewMaster.
It forces you to get Weapons of Order or that other talent which I want to ignore. Removing my choice in talent tree.
It also forces you to go duel handed, since the main point of the hero tree is to trigger a lot of attacks. One of which is to gain stacking haste if you attack fast enough. (which doesn't work with a two hander)
Meanwhile the icon is a monk using a pole-arm and the iconic brewmaster weapon is a staff from legion.
Tmog to a legion staff, which is the only ones that are held in a cool way anyways
@@Vindex4566 that is what I have been doing since legion.
But I'm pretty sure you can't mog two maces into one staff. To be honest I haven't tried.
@@Henagata You absolutely can. Every class has an Artifacts dropdown where you can mog any weapon type into the Legion weapon.
Colossus for Warrior forces you to use Shockwave too. A frontal cone stun. I don't want it. It really pisses me off that they are forcing that.
Wish they would put more glyphs in the game so you could customize your abilities. Warlock got some of the coolest ones like rain of fire green instead of red. want other specs to have more aswell like mm hunter could use change colour of rapid fire or arcane shot would have some ramp up light before you release it. Alot of things to be wished for. Just make them not work in pvp and we are good
Iv always wanted each DK specs death and decay to be different colors. Frost blue, unholy green, blood red.
I've been going crazy trying to get blizzards attention to something like this.
Shadow priests NEED the ability to customize our shadowform in some way, even just letting us use previous expansion versions of the form would be enough.
I'm just so tired of running around in a purple fart cloud, this isn't how shadow is supposed to look. Lol
It's not just RoF, the book changes ALL of your fire spells in destro to fel fire. Even burning rush is green.
its kind of crazy that we still cant add tranmog effects on ranged weapons.
To be fair, the green fire is not a glyph, but an item that drops from the Isle of Thunder.
Blood DK needs a complete rework for San'layn. Suits the spec so much better vs Deathbringer but its just no where near as good as it.
Would be cool to see it get Blood beast every 45secs or so. Could have a talent that swaps Ghoul for blood beast.
Monk's Conduit of the Celestials should visually channel the celestials.
Hot take but the only visually impressive hero talent is the death knight riders one.
The fact the majority are so unnoticeable that mountain thane / mage phoenix were getting praised shows how low the bar was.
@MerchantTV I love on a paler horse but I'm concerned it will get nerfed soon. It's a little OP.
I'm biased and new but I do find DH to be visually appealing and even impressive at times. Especially when someone better than me is piloting the high mobility build.
Statically I find the graphics a bit dull but like raiding with a guild and the promise of an endgame that people expect to work together to do.
Diabolist is pretty great
Enhancement Tempest would like a word with you. Not only is it surprisdly visually nice, the hit and reverb sound from feels so nice.
Deathbringer is badass af with the scythes, Templar pala is also pretty ok, from what I play Atleast.
What do you really expect? They can’t really add 1000 new spells to the game. Ok maybe they could recolor/texture spells. I’d rather it feels great to press and looks good aswell
I honestly like the hero talents so far, some more in depth class fantasy, some visuals and new stuff. Can’t speak for every class/spec of course, only playing Retribution Paladin / Guardian Druid / Windwalker Monk right now, but they all feel very nice to play in my opinion.
Anyone else feel like all of these changes are things they should've done during well idk, BETA?? It feels like they don't test the game at all they just release it and take feedback later
Nah. Can never get to everything. I was happy with where we were at launch though granted a few classes were left behind.
Yup. It's sad that we've collectively been conditioned to have a "better late than never" mentality with Blizzard instead of expecting them to do things with better planning and responsiveness
@@Yanatauits not with blizzard its with the entire gaming industry.
@@Giliver If it's the entire gaming industry (it's actually not), and Blizzard is an integral part of that industry, then you can't say it's not Blizzard! Plus, we're talking specifically about Blizzard here. When we say things like "it's not just ___, it's every/all ___", we're shifting scrutiny off the developer/publisher in question and dispersing it across lots of vague entities. It's never helpful to us gamers, as it allows individual companies to dodge their responsibilities.
Sooo... i love the hero talent system so far. And i also love my sub rogue hero talents (both are fun even if trickster is just better for what im doing atm.) But i do have a complaint about it that... well i dont SEE any difference in gameplay other than numbers, and hearing the occasional audio feedback of an extra slice.
Been BM for 20 yrs I play hunter for the pets I was so excited for pack leader... it's a nothing burger! Gimme more pets cool stuff to do with them I want to have a pack!
Same here... when I heard the Name "Pack Leader" I was so sold on beeing one as BM... and then we got the talents and i thought "Yeah... nice... I guess I will be a Dark Ranger with Pets" and gladly numbers also showed this... They should have made Packleader Like Demo-Lock... ether let us throw a army of pets at our enemies (like WL with his imps) or let us Summon a Pet like Rexxar has Misha and make it stronger and Stronger... Or do some things before and the better we do it, the more powerful this Pet will get when summoned (Like Tyrrant from WL).
And what did we get? Kill Command enhances Kill Command, Barbed Shoot, Barbed Shoot and if you use Call of the Wild, both are better for this time... WOW... so much not WoW -.-
I´m not a hunter player at all but i think it would be kinda cool if the pack leader would have an ability or passive that you summon a random pets (or set favorites) from your stable an do special attacks( for example an stampede ability with many ones attacking or a proc that target get ambushed and a pet pounces out of the shadows do a nasty attack). I think bm-mains would like such a thing so they can show of passivly their collection of beasts or just use the ones they are like the most. they could be many diffrent abilities i guess what those beasts could do as attacks . i just liked the idea that you can show others what or how many diffrent beasts you were able to tame over the years and everyone can see and enjoy them. (instead of just rotting in the stable and never get any attention at all).
That would be great, at this point I would just settle for pack leader being in the same range of dps tuning as dark ranger so I dont feel forced to go ranger or totally gimp my group :(
Feels bad being forced to choose a hero tree I dislike because its so completely outperforming the other tree in single and multi target, m+ and raid...
What they can do for the hero talents is add more onto the existing ones for the next two expansions so then by the third expansion for the saga, it will be like having a third talent tree.
Hero talents need armor sets (yes, I understand the sheer design demand that places on a team, but it still feels necessary)
Deathbringer is swoosh swish simulator. Exterminate gives me so much dopamine. Definitely my favourite hero talent. The best part is unholy doesn't get it.
they need to make pack leader feel more like i'm a master of beasts who unleash my hoard of pets on my victims.
Herald of the sun could make it so after you use Wake of Ashes - you do an animation where a chain made of light drops from the sky - you pull it down and a light aoe drops down.
Its supposed to simulate being a "herald" of the sun. Your pulling light magic from the sun down to smite enemies.
So what xmog was the hunter pants? Asking for a friend of course 👀
Dark ranger bums me out if we can’t get gladiator stance back
when we drop that time frame on how long ago green fire was added... and then remember it was asked for in VANILLA due to seeing all the green fire effects on fel casters even in low level areas...
I have played WoW since late beta with an expansion break when my wife got sick and was put on hospice and honestly while I miss some talents that were scrapped in multiple classes for the most part I think that classes are really good currently. I have at least one of every class at at least lvl 70 and there really isn't a class that I dont log on and enjoy playing. sure some can use some tweaks and reshuffling of tallent locations in the tree but all in all I dont feel constrained and enjoy just messing around with the trees.
I have multiple characters of the same class specifically to experiment with the tallents and not just rely on WoWHead or Icy to lay out the talents for the "best" build and make those chars my own just for fun. WoW is in a great state right now and I'm really digging it.
Thanks for being a voice for the player base and putting all this great info out man!
I wish they would add extra cosmetic options for some of the classes. Like green fire for fire mage or blue fire. Autumn red leaves for resto druid spells. Dark energy levitate for priests.
I don't understand why shadow has flash heal as their healing spell, what ever happened to shadow mend? (Or whatever it was called)
Also for the love of god PLEASE just let us use previous visual iterations of shadowform, the current one is by far the ugliest and I can't stand looking at it.(Shadow priest? Nah more like fart cloud priest)
Watching the Overlord run up to its target and just… twitching about like it’s having a seizure before harmlessly dissipating back to the nether was quite the wet noodle. I expected to see it for the majority of the expansion, tbh. Glad to see someone’s looking out for us.
I really really hope Warrior Herotalents get a good look at. Not only are both DPS Speccs locked into Slayer as Collossus is just worse and a lot clunkier. Slayer is also just straight up uninteractive passives only and locking us into Bladestorm.
Generally having Herotalents on Classes that require you to use specific other Talents, which you don't always want (Meteor for Frostfire Herotalented Fire Mage is another example) just feel soooo awful.
That's the dumbest shit about hero talents, focusing around optional, non-baseline abilities. They did that with some tier sets and somehow thought it's a good idea.
Hero talents would be a great way to give that extra push for people to play their " Witch doctor and Shadow hunter " type class without adding a full-on new Class with its own issues, they can also add little "flare" quests for the talents to add some more lore for people to get into.
Man, I really hope that they’ll open up dark ranger for survival including dual wielding 🤞
3:19 they really made this char look like it was wearing assless chaps no?
It’s insane how much wow pulls from hots lol. I still love hots too. Great game that they gave no love.
With Evoker being, basically, a racial class.
We should really get a Worgen racial hero talent that reskins all your melee attacks with claw attacks for physical melee classes
Be cool if Worgen Druid's could just forgo Feral/Tank specs and just fight in their Werewolf form. That'd be sick as hell
@@TheJamieellisThis
Both of the above pls
Wow!
My highmountain hunter will just love looking like a high elven dark ranger!
Thankfully if he doesn't like that, he has the option to instead look like a night elven warden!
now do the magic thing for ferals blizz.
Yo can rogues get something more visually thematic? We have the most passive and tasteless hero talents in the game
I really wish Feral had access to the Elune talent tree like Guardian. Neither Druid of the Claw or Wildstalker feel very heroic, flashy or cool. It's just a moment where a proc happens and then I either get stronger dots with no different sfx or a stronger Feroicious Bite, with like a larger Brutal Slash sfx. I might deal more damage, but impact wise, it just doesn't feel visceral. But let me tell you. A Guardian druid with that elune hero talent? You notice when they start summoning lasers from the sky. Lmao.
Maybe a sun based one for Feral would be cool, since Season of Discovery gave us Sunfire. As Feral, I really enjoy managing DoTs. If I was able to use Sunfire too, I'd be having a blast, literally.
Druid of the Claw itself just doesn't strike me as a good choice for either Feral or Guardian, imo. Just lots of passives that could have been placed in the actual trees instead.
I read somewhere that the farseer spirits should start showing up with older shaman tier sets. That will be more visually interesting than the current basic spirits we have now.
Idk why the hero talents for Druids don’t give Druid form customisations that are exclusive to the hero talents. Boomy really needs some love neither hero talents do anything in terms of visuals or gameplay really.
How about a full nature based owlkin customisations for keeper of the grove? Then for the elunes chosen one new flashy moonkin form vfx like the fire vfx but luna since they are already luna themed anyway.
It amazes how long this game has been out and they've still never managed to give MM its own identity since MoP.
Clearly you didn’t play Legion MM.
There’s not much of an identity in doing “pew pew”.
I like this new direction WoW started to move towards. The devs seem to be more developing/inventing then just slamming nerf/buff hammers. Kudos.
All these bots are generating comments based on the RUclips title.
I'm really sad with the San'layn changes for Blood DK , Having a full vampiric build was so cool. But they are changing the trigger to Runic Weapon instead. The issue being that Runic weapon cooldowns with bone charges , so taking bone storm and tombstone is incentivised, and this feel more Death related closer to death bringer thematic.
With current setup you can forego this talents for more Vampiric blood time, and the shield at the end of Vampiric blood and be more blood themed on your talents. And gameplay wise this was also good. You usually pull a bunch of mobs, activate vampiric blood an then go to town with vampiric strike to sustain the early big pack damage. And if you played it correctly you basically had 15-20 secs of cooldown on vampiric blood. So actually this cd time is where you would pop other defensives so you could hold on until your next Vampiric blood came of cooldown.
Another cool thing is on Delves since Vampiric blood is considered a defensive you can use the Curio that using a defensive with more than 45sec cooldown heals health%. Which made your heal during Vampiric Blood awesomely epic.
I really like that gameplay loop and hopefully Blizzard reconsiders it.
100% agree
Hope monks get more... I know they have more than some but seriously
are those, finally new Ascendency Forms? thank god, it's about damn time.
Just give us a Tinkerer class alrdy Blizzard!!!!
I'm an MM goblin hunter engineer, I don't care about dark ranger or sentinel, I want tech and mechanical gubbins, but I'd be very happy to reroll to Tinkerer!!!!!
I wish they would chill on things like "your a dark ranger now" or "a hunter of elune"
Cool visual effects? Yes please
But making every subclass super specific to a faction or npc? Please no.
My dwarf hunter doesn't want to be a sentinel or dark ranger.
That's why there should be glyphs or something so that people could customise their characters better but only cosmetically.
@@Leeloo-Foxx Exactly! It would also be a big W for Blizzard because people would really like that and it would be a system they could easily do additions to over time instead of creating hundreds of options on one go.
yes, and my orc warrior don´t want to be a mountain thane. Btw i think it´s a missed opportunity not do some kind of " gunslinger" as a hero talent that uses a gun. I don´t get the "Leader of the pack" either, that´s already in the game or as beastmaser
@lnz3257 i actually ended using leader of the pack for my survival hunter purely because it wasn't the elune thing.
@@charlesquigley4383 hmm yea i didn´t see it from that perspective, you´re absoluty right. The pack leader is actually the "neutral" , if i would play a hunter i maybe would have made the same choice :) . Dark ranger also is more of a horde/forsaken thing in my opinion. It easily can destroy the whole vibe of a character when it doesnt match at all. For nelfs it´s great but for most races it doesnt fit at all.
And Feral Druids feel like a gimped version of WotLK. More button mashing, less DPS. At least with Guardian I can shift quickly to add some cat bleeds (which only apply’s in solo play)
they need to add green and red eyes for dks already. why dont we have this already ???
I personally think they should keep adding more hero talent trees for every class that way over time we have a wider class fantasy collection.
And also, please blizzard let Hunters choose the spec for any pet they want and just give Hunters a small pet talent tree consisting of the already existing abilities and perhaps maybe some minor passives like before, this would add so much to the hunter class.
Give me a battlemage skin over warriors with an interesting questline of the Kirin Tor giving a crash course on magic, and I'll be happy. I roleplay a battlemage/spellsword in-game, and it frustrates me to no end that I can't be one without playing my shaman. ;-;
...Oh, and electromancer over Arcane. B)
I think your playing the wrong game buddy. If you want a magical warrior just play a Dk or pally…
@@smokeythagamer8521 Yes, but those aren't the fantasy I want. I love pally and DK, but I'd like one that's for arcane, too. They could easily just change a lot of abilities' colors purple, and I'd be happy. XD
mage needs more visual cues for its buffs and features. Weak auras are basically mandatory for decent level performance.
I want shadow weaver to get updates and be good. Was looking forward to it pre release, but archon dominates.
I REALLY hope they leave Shadow Priest alone. Legit the most fun class I’ve played in a long time. It’s just satisfying as hell to send a black hole into a group of mobs and rip them to shreds
Meanwhile Fatebound Rogue still just craps out a coin occasionally and gets a buff so insignificant that you barely feel it.
And Blizzard thought that was a more important class fantasy than something like, oh, I don't know... A pirate?
Tbh, The whole rogue pirate thing is so stupid. Combat was just s better specc that they turned into this mess of a sub class.
@@Krunkeridleios Sorry, I fell asleep while you were talking
@@Krunkeridleios Well then I have good news for you. If they had made a hero talent tree for being a pirate you wouldn't have had to play it. So if you have an issue with being awesome then there's an lamer alternative for you to pick.
@@PinataFreaks Lamer? Being a sneaky crit hitting Assassin or a gay ass village lookin wannabe with baby guns
@@OhNoTheFace It's okay man, Just go back to the closet and it will be all fine
I gave enhance spec a try and i have been pleasantly surprised. It is way better than anything in the last 15 years. Looking forward to more improvements.
Currently maining an enhancement shaman! In my 13 years of wow I've never been able to get behind it but it feels great now!
...
Tho I will say, hero talents are a bit underwhelming for em
I think it does look great now but it for sure was more fun in MoP
Excuse me, Oracle? Voidweaver for shadow priest?
“Everything changes but fuck rogues”- Blizzard
I'm more hyped for the next update rather than when war within was released 😆 Wished there were more stuff for San'layn tho.
Now we just need packleader to summon a stampede instead of making kill command clearcast/double cast
Great to see they arent doing anything to Mistweaver monk even though Master of Harmony is literally so weak it may as well not even exist 👍 thanks blizz
Frost mage needs some visual love at least with some damage tweaks. Frost fire, your frost bolt and meter are the only changes, spellslinger is just more frozen orb.
Hunters: "I can be a Dark Ranger now! It affects one of my core abilities, it does cool thematic shit with my disengage and my procs, and my Damage CDs!"
Druid: "Sometimes there's vines on my enemies. Or more moon-effects on Moonkin... Class tree still in shambles."
yeah Dark Ranger is cool and all but when are they gonna make Pack Leader not feel crap to pick?
This gives me a tiny bit of hope that they will look at druid, but I have to say I'm disappointed that we haven't heard anything about that yet. Wildstalker and Keeper both does literally nothing to gameplay (especially not for resto). It's just passively there. Elune's Chosen is a cool concept (letting you focus on the whole astronomy theme), but in reality the only gameplay change it gives is remove the Eclipse system. While the Eclipse system itself is bad and needs a complete rework, simply removing it makes the spec extremely bland. Not sure how Guardian / Feral are, but resto and balance certainly got screwed over here.
They need to make new glyphs, bring them back! Or make hero talents that affect all spell effects
Hero talent tree should have been unlocked at 78-80 each talent point coming from completing a class quest
This. Changes. Everything.
Wonder how much longer before they pull the lever for some kind of multi-class (with restrictions). Can't imagine there's many more new ways to uniquely change our characters without going back to borrowed power. More rows within the talent trees is nice n' all but yea. Dunno where you go from here.
Give me a hero spec that's just pre-legion survival fully and I'll be happy with hunters.
RIP Demon Hunters.
I see an issue coming up in the future with hero talents being how to build off of them further without turning into the same issue they ended up with for normal talents. Theyre great to 80, but what happens when the cap is 90? 100? 120? Could we see another numbers squish somewhere down the line just to keep it all neat and in order?
Deathstalker rogues still waiting for any visuals at all 😐
Can we get glyphs that change ability looks but require a specify hero talent choice. Like strombringer shaman get a much more storm elemental look for assendance
How many years water elemental was in the tree..
Now?
What the hell? 😂
-one concerned mage
The kirin tor will hear of this!! 😂
I have played frost mage since 2005. I am glad water elemental is part of Icy Veins and not a permanent pet.
We had dark ranger on ascension classless wow for a few years now
I think Blizzard did themselves a big favor by deciding to do a trilogy. Normally they would be able to basically run away from their mistakes by having the next expac overwrite them. Now they can't and it's showing. Now it's a matter of if the lessons stick.
any chance of ferals hero talents not being boring? doesnt make me feel heroic. i dont want to heal more or tank more, i want to feral more. thanks. btw, the part where u were talking about the BfA cinematic making the Dark Ranger seem so cool, "then the game happened", had me lmao.
Dude imagine if they went with the werecat talent from WoD and just went ham with it.
Yeah, druid talents (aside from Elune) feel so bland and lack agency.
@@joshuasmith4643would be awesome
As a feral main since the beginning. I agree. Both the choices for Feral suck and are dull. Meanwhile, Guardian gets to summon lasers and deal arcane damage.
We just need to raise our expectations of the developers. They make almost 200k a year to develop expansions that make you feel you are in a beta until it is almost over
My Diabolist Destro lock is kinda insane... When I am in a dungeon crit with 'Ruination' and see 5-10% of it's health just disappear is insane and satisfying, I hit lvl 80 and was doing baseline 600k DPS, my Arcane mage couldn't keep up with my destro lock if he tried with all his might... To say I love my destro lock is an understatement, it's really nice to have a destro lock that once again hits' like someone threw the moon at you (sorry druids but your 'full moon' ability doesn't hit like it really should be.)
Blizzard: were you enjoying that class and spec? Let us ruin that for you.
Ele sham ancestor talents are so strong, its literally elemental mastery on steroids.
Which completely removes the reason for having mastery, as an elemental shaman.
Why is the hunter now a banshee? Dark rangers arent banshees...
Now if Blizz could just fix Death Knight’s, Death & Decay to proc like Paladin’s Concentrate and have Rune generation work more efficiently like Holy power.
I need the MM rework now, i feel like i'm forced to use survival to do any dps rn
what the heck is going on this expansion has hit well and blizzard is actually listening to our feedback
The bots are running wild down here.
Savanna isn’t just a dark ranger though that’s the issue if your comparing her to a dark ranger. She is a banshee and that was what she turned into that had nothing to do with dark ranger 😂
Hero talents should make me feel like I'm a goddam hero, not just be 30% more healing/damage for whatever ability; that's just numbers inflation that don't mean a single damn thing overall in the big scheme of things.
Also, hero talents shouldn't be tied to particular end of tree talents, because that cookie cutters me into having to choose those end of tree talents instead of others, and when you have a choice that actually isn't a choice but rather mandatory, or else your guy becomes broken...well, then you've failed. I may not even like the talent(s) that the hero tree is based around, it might not fit my preferred playstyle.
Any ability leveraged in the hero talent trees need to either be baseline, or placed suchly in the talent tree that you can't avoid picking it on your way down (IE, quite high up, in other words.)
I think hero talents changed nothing for fury warriors or arms warriors. They should do something about that, also, ranged warrior class that plays like Draven in league would be cool.
blademaster should have been warrior talent with decoys and other wc spells it had.
Need to address the damn mythic dungeons. Especially mists and grim batol. Last both in both are just ridiculous. Green every where then purple every where.
They need to add more hero talent trees for some classes, because the fantasy of many fits only specific races. Like Hunter has two very specific hero talent trees that I feel are very restricted. Dark Ranger is basically a Blood Elf talent tree, perhaps undead but I would say to really get the Dark Ranger fantasy that works in the universe, you have to be a Blood Elf.
Sentinel is very Night Elf centered, perhaps Tauren can also work in some cases. But both of these are just so specific for certain character fantasies. Hunter really lack that engineer and gun type hero class.
Tempest stacks to two on live btw
San'Layn I think will still feel way too rng to ever pick compared to deathbringer, even with the dancing rune weapon change.
ngl my big wish for next patch is a buff to holy paladin flash of light and holy light. they feel SO ANEMIC compared to every other healer equivalent quick/slow bread and butter heals. holy priest heals for literally double on their equivalent spells lol
Is there a reason you dont put a link to what the video is about in the video details?
Is there a reason you need that nonsense?