Simple Smart Home Heating In Minutes!
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- Опубликовано: 29 июн 2024
- Aqara seem to be on a bit of a roll recently with releasing new product after new product and today, they have released their very own smart home heating product: the Aqara Radiator Thermostat E1 which is a fully wireless solution to individual zone and room controlled heating that can be set up in just a matter of minutes and has the potential to save you money on the ever skyrocketing energy bills! In this video, we take a look at it, see if it is worth the investment and is it better than the Shelly TRV?
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00:00 - Intro
00:28 - Sponsor Spot
01:26 - Design
03:22 - Set Up
04:19 - Aqara App
07:19 - HomeKit
07:40 - Home Assistant
09:29 - Is It Worth It? 
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Thanks for being in my video for this stat man, your performance was funnier than I could ever be! 😂 Xxx
The pleasure was all mine 😂
Just in time! I was looking for reliable review of this product just an hour ago. Thanks!
Nice one, hope it helps!
Thanks for the review. I've been trying to get these for about a month, ever since I saw they were coming anyway. 😁 I've just ordered eleven, using the discount code, to cover the entire house.
Having read all the comments on here, it seems everyone is pretty confused about how they work in conjunction with the boiler. It does depend on what you want to do, but the short answer is pair these with ANY smart thermostat and use Home Assistant to automate requesting heat from the boiler if needed, or switch it off if not.
Happy to answer questions, if anyone needs clarification, but please don't expect an immediate response.
Hey Robert, I do have some unclarities and would appreciate it if you could have some time for this. My setup consists of a gas boiler with water floor heating and a wired thermostat installed in the living room.
The problem I have is that the living room is quite big and the heater is not enough to reach the temperature set on the thermostat, so during the night, in my bedroom, the temperature is reached, while the boiler still works as the temperature is not reached in the living room.
I believe this could be solved with a smart thermostat and automation in HA by using a timeframe and some helpers to stop the boiler when the temperature is reached in the bedroom, right?
What I do not understand is if I would install a smart valve on each room, how would this save gas, as the boiler warms up the whole house when trying to warm up one room?
@@bogdancatrinoiu2651 I'm not sure I totally understand what you want to acheive and I'm not convinced you need smart TRVs at all.
If your thermostat is in the Living Room and that is not getting to temperature, this is one of the simplest problems to solve and doesn't require smart TRVs, as the room that's the coldest has your thermostat in it, which tells the boiler when it needs to be on. The boiler won't switch off until the thermostat reaches target temperature. So, if you already have non-smart TRVs on all your radiators, just set them to a lower temperature in all the rooms. That way they will switch off and leave the boiler to supply just the Living Room until that hits it's target temperature.
When a TRV is off the boiler will only be supplying heat to the radiators where it's on, so it will save gas as it won't be heating the entire house, just the rooms where the radiators are still on.
Or are you actually not caring about what the temperature is in the Living Room at night and just want the boiler to switch off once the Bedroom is the correct temperature?
If so, you still don't actually need smart TRVs. This could be accomplished with a temperature sensor in the Bedroom and an automation in Home Assistant that switches the thermostat in the Living Room (I assume your thermostat is smart, if not, that's the first thing you need to do, buy a smart thermostat) to say 12 degrees, which will switch the boiler off.
Smart TRVs are really only useful for things like if you don't want to heat certain rooms at all if certain people are not home and the doors are closed etc.
I hope this helps.
Those AA Batteries will last a long time in the Aqara beign Zigbee. If you want rechargables you could buy a couple of rechargable cells and charge them externally :).
I find Aqara works pretty well with most things, and being ZigBee you can keep it isolated from the internet easier. Nice to see them getting into Hydronic heating, even though I would have little use for that here in Australia where forced air heating is still the norm.
I know the battery life depends on vendor and how often your valves work, but could you define "long time"? Is it at least 3 months?
Great video. I’m looking at these but have some rooms with 2 rads so would be looking to link 2 tvrs to an external temp sensor. Currently I don’t have an aqara hub as other zigbee devices are connected using ZHA. Would like to stick with this if I could
Great! It would be nice to see how it compares to Tado, especially that Tado is cheaper and has been around more time!
I have integrated these devices to Home Assistant via ZHA and there are a lot of things missing, the battery level is not reported, the child lock does not show up and the HVAC action always shows as unknown making it harder to build automations. There is also an option available to set it to Heat/Cool mode that doesn't make sense for a radiator. Please do submit your custom code to ZHA as soon as you can, there's at least one HA user that would be massively grateful! 😁
I'm looking in buying these for ZHA use. How's it working begin 2024? Everything i find are old testings...
@@NepGangster all my listed issues have been resolved in ZHA
nice, i'm having a tado system at the moment very good for if you have a gas operated heating system, but i'm looking at a heatpump and reading about it, it's going to go haywire with tado. this seems like an alternative
Thanks for the video!
I purchased several of the aqara thermostats and am using home assistant with z2m. I am able to pair them and i can see them paired in z2m, however i got zero exposes. Do you have any idea why ?
Great video! Thanks man.
What do you think of Bosch Smart Home Radiator Thermostat II?
Have you been able to connect it directly to Home Assistant?
Bosch smart home app isn't available in my country and I've been wandering if they could pair directly. Anyone?
Do these work out of the box with NEST - we have a nest and enjoy the functionality, but would like to add smart valves but are confused as to which ones work with the nest out of the box and seamlessly integrate? Do you have a recommendation on the ones that would best suit?
Great video as always, I don't even have radiators and watched the whole thing!
Another reason to use Z2M and not suffer ZHA.
Haha wow thanks Justin, I take that as one of the great compliments you could give me! 😅
You should do an episode on the Mysa thermostats. I have electric baseboard heating in each room and it seems to be the only decent solution for that.
Thanks for the review
Thanks for watching!
How noisy is it when it moves the valve? I have the Honeywell which makes a bit of a racket when it moves the valve.
Hi
thanks for your video
could you help me with this issuing i am facing
i plan on purchasing aqara thermostat and google nest.
my problem here, do i purchase the nest temp sensor or the aqara temp sensor, which one would recommend?
Great video, how exactly it's connecting to a boiler?
Hello, firstly thank you for all your videos you have been instramental in my choice to use home assistant, i have bought some Aqara TRV's and a Hub M2, this works in the aqara app, and even shows up in on my home app on iphone but will not show up in home assistant i do already have a Somfy Tahoma hub for blind which is seen in homeassistant under homekit. i think i have added the M2Hub in home kit but not getting any devices listed
I’m having exactly the same problem. Works fine in the Aqara app and in Home app on iOS but HomeKit in home assistant won’t find it
Just got my E1 today and installed it in my bedroom and linked it to the Aqara temperature and humidity sensor I have in there, hopefully this combination should be more accurate than the Eve Thermo I used previously. I agree that not having the option to smart schedule weekdays and weekends separately is a weird omission, hopefully something they can add to this with a firmware/app update.
come on you can use automations and achieve even better effects
What is your recommendation, Eve Thermo with Thread or the Aqara E1 with Zigbee?
Hi. How did you link it. Do you have the aqara hub? Or thought home assistant? Being a new product there ain't much info out yet.
@@036101556 There are a couple of hubs that Aqara sell I’m using a G2H camera as a hub for this
@@magnusmagnussen5809 Hi Magnus unfortunately I can’t answer that, as only one of my three Eve Thermos has thread and no other thread device. Also too eatly to say how reliable the Aqara E1 will be. Sorry
As much as the shelley or Aqara are good for controlling the individual zones/radiators, without any actual ability to tell the boiler to fire up or shut off makes them almost useless on their own. You need to be able to pair these somehow with a boiler control which can be done but people need to understand these valves alone are not the solution. Either connect to home asistant and pair with a smart relay or existing smart central heating system like nest, tado or evohome etc.. or some other solution but you need to have a way to talk to the boiler otherwise no heating when you want it or heating constantly on in rooms without smart valves (and you should ideally have a room without any thermostatic valves like the bathroom or somewhere similar).
I was just about to say the exact same thing! I had to find out the hard way about leaving one radiator without a valve...
I'd have thought that to have all rooms at their setpoint would be rare enough to negat the need for a smart sta as there would always be heating required somewhere in but,if that wasnt he case, and the house was up to temp then the thermostat shut the boiler down? The only issue there is if the thermostat is not in a room you wanted to control, most of the time it is in the living room so not really an option.
I agree with you though, if someone can shutdown the boiler when a few rooms are up to temp is an ideal scenario but you could argue not necessary
@@jimmywoody6962 I wouldnt say that its rare to have all rooms at their set point. Given current energy costs I suspect most will be limiting the rooms they heat which could mean as little as 1 room in some circumstances which might mean a couple of hours to reach setpoint in winter. And then unless you are programming the boiler on a timer it could still be producing heat either in rooms without a smart thermostat or at worst with all radiators closed off which could cause flow issues and heating the pipe runs unecessarily and heating up unwanted areas. The most efficient way is to certainly combine a smart radiator valve with some method of boiler control (It can be a very simple smart on/off switch in most circumstances) Also note anyone doing DIY work on boilers that while electrics can be accessible for wiring up thermostats/boiler controls, in some boiles you could be breaking the combustion chamber. Also boilers have different methods of calling for heat e.g. 240v signal or just a NC/NO etc.. so you really need to understand and know what you are doing before messing with boiler controls.
IMO having a system competently installed like nest, hive, tado, evohome etc.. integrating it into something like home assistant and then adding cheaper radiator valves to all other rooms is a better way of going about it alone.
@@dpn1604 why do you need one room without a valve?
That's fair, I do mine with an esp8266 relay in the boiler, works a treat! Thanks for the input
This exact valve with zigbee is existing and selling by tuya from at least the end of 2020. Aqara just rebranded it and added literally nothing...
And for tuya version, all functions are usable with z2m
I stumbled upon that too. There are also rebrands like “essentials Smart Home”, Nedis or Brennenstuhl. Tuya seems to be the creator since at least March 2020 (Amazon reviews of a rebrand) maybe earlier
They have custom Zigbee firmware on it, it is not identifying as a Tuya product and has specific Aqara messages. So it is a bit more than just slapping a logo on it.
But i am still curious. Which ones do you mean?
@@patrick71994 Check out siterwell GS361A
@@patrick71994 i only found this manual "essentials-smart-home-heizkoerperthermostat-premium in docplayer which clearly shows the same display and functions as the aqara one. also the AA batteries is a hint. maybe the switched to a better motor, but i doubt it. the firmware seems to be modified. yes, but what should that do better, or "smarter" than the predecessors? why is there such a huge price difference when so little is different?
@3:32 not the TRV :)
so good! I was wondering if I should wait a bit more for a zigbee smart radiator, or if I should just concede and go with the Shelly TRV. I shall go with the Aqara now.
I can work with the lack of internal battery. I will just use Ikea rechargable or eneloop AAs.
Nice, glad it helped! Enjoy when you get it!
what type of controller characteristic does this thing use? and is it tunable? i mean, if it's either fully open or fully closed, that's no good. ideally it should be PID.
I should get one for the 'rents, dad would be fidgeting with it constantly turning the heat and the air on and off.
Hi. It’s not clear to me. Is it possible to automate this E1 with T1/T2 relay? Eg have an event like on/off (when valve is open or closed) to trigger an aqara t1/t2 relay to close/open the circuit (L1-LOUT) connected to a heating/boiler system?
How is this different to the GS361A-H04 from tuya/siterwell? It certainly looks exactly the same, but the matter support and device name/manufacturer in Zigbee2MQTT indicates theres a difference. Other firmware or even other hardware for matter support, maybe?
Not sure sorry I don't have the other device
How do they controll the boiler. Or do they? And what else is needed to do that. Say 5 out of 6 rooms are up to temp and TVR shuths off the rads. However one roon needs more heat. What keeps the boiler running and more importantly when all 6 are up to temp, shitches the boiler off? I assume there will be an extra module needed ? I already have Nest that controlls the boiler but I wan to get rid of it. Can some sort of IF THEN statements be set up and then sent from zigbee hub controller at the boiler ? I can't find a straight answer to that anywhere.
Hi! Nice work as usual!
Can you gently cover Aquara air quality monitor? I'll be interested in using one to monitor the room where there's my stove but the reviews here on yt are not so positive regarding the sensibility of the device
Thanks Alberto!
Hmm possibly - I would need to think of a good way to test it
@@EverythingSmartHome Thank you, take your time!
What's the highest temperature it can be set to?
Your app looks different then i have on my Android. I didnt have options for Schedules and combine with a door Sensor?
Battery life is just too short for me sadly. I currently have a Honeywell Evohome setup, and link it to Home Assistant via the cloud service. I'd love to go for local control, but the Evohome batteries last at least 2 years - and with 12 valves I still feel like I'm forever changing batteries. 1 year is just not enough to let me go for the Aqara.
I’ve ordered one directly after your video!
But I’m not sure how to linked the thermostat and my Aqara temperature sensor in Home Assistant.
Maybe that’s a future video? Or if someone could explain ;)
Could someone explain?
How about the connection with the gas boiler?
Exactly :D How about that? Boiler pump will work unstoppable.
Need a follow up video. How are they working after a year.
any progress with ZHA and battery state?
Not sure if the rechargable battery is a plus on the Shelly, mostly the batteries go flat together in multiple rooms, replacing the AA batteries goes fast, charging them all is a hassle.
That's fair, for me personally I prefer rechargeable but just down to personal preference
Shelly TRV battery lasts for over a year and you can continue using it, while you recharge it with a cellphone charger or a battery bank.
I don't see how disposable batteries are better.
@@user-xu2pi6vx7o I have 10+ radiators, few of them have a power outlet nearby to charge the valve. Neither do I have 5+ battery banks, if I have to charge them one by one, it takes time. Charge the powerbank, take that to the first TRV to charge that, recharge the powerbank, ... and then I'm not even talking about efficiency of this process. AA-batteries also exist in rechargeable models BTW. Just a few thoughts...
@@krisgeusens162 You DO realize that they will never all run out at the same time, right?
@@user-xu2pi6vx7o Off course I do realize that, but my experience with the Honeywell Evohome valves is that they will run very similar times on the batteries
Thanks again for this video. Do you maybe have an update on the zha Integration in HASS. I would like to use the Aqara E1 with an external Temparatur sensor. Is that option available?
do you find an answer?
@@override12345 Sadly not
You can get a free matter support from OTA when it's ready 😉
but OTA of the hubs, not the device itself
Will Aqara E1 support Thread in the future?
I prefer replaceable batteries as it means the device is not intended to be disposable. I have a bunch of rechargeable batteries and just rotate them, always have charged ones to hand.
Most of the rechargeable batteries don't have enough umpf to work in these kind of devices. That i also stated most of the time in the manual, to not use rechargeable ones
Fair enough, I like rechargable personally! Least there is options for both now 😅
Does anyone have experiance with the pros and cons of the Aqara or Shelly TRV, or know where there is a good overview to be found?
The Shelly seems a little more expensive, but this is more than outweighed by the need to buy a hub with the Aqara.
I've got a central non-smart thermostat in the living room and all my individual radiators are always set to maximum so the thermostat can tell them to go on or off based on the temperature in the living room.
Creating hot pockets in some rooms cause there are no temperature sensors or anything there.
Would these smart 'valves' (I guess) work in this situation?
Yes, but so would traditional TRVs. The reasons 'Smart' TRVs are becoming interesting (my take on this, probably not comprehensive):
- The ability to pair a secondary temperature sensor to it, either directly or through a Hub/HA (so it's better located in the room, not hidden behind a curtain for example)
- They effectively give you the ability to control a separate heating 'Zone'
- They allow custom timing profiles (eg 21 degrees before 9pm, 17 degrees while you sleep)
- They (In theory) allow you to optimise your heating profiles to save energy/money (I suspect this only really has an impact in large multi-room houses)
What is becoming clear, however, is that to implement a really well-balanced, efficient zoned system in your home, you need full control over your boiler ON/OFF control (demand control), which you can achieve through automation (Home Assistant etc)
Tado does all of this and more and can be found around the same price.
I was hoping for a few words about future Matter support. Did you do any research in that direction?
The device on it's own will not get Matter support and just stay zigbee, but Aqara will update the hub for Matter and thus making it Matter compatible.
I'm not sure how it is with zugbee2mqtt and ZHA, but I guess at least for ZHA, that Homeassistant will get Matter support some day?
If I have a smart TRV integrated to home assistant and use a separate temperature sensor then would I need some sort of PID controller/automation/script to control the valve position, surely without it the TRV would open and close constantly trying to maintain the set room temp?
considering how much time it takes to change the temperature in the room, I would say: you just need an automation, not real PID. I set up my automation based on the fact, that my room temperature sensors measure every 3 minutes - then the heating system only acts when the new value is received. Last winter I found it working pretty well
Not that easy - most of those TRVs don't allow to control valve position directly (in fact I haven't found any Zigbee based that supports it) and most of those don't even report valve open percentage (unfortunately looks like including this one…). It's especially irritating if you plan to for example control speed of circulation pump this way or even simply switching it off when unneeded… This one at least has some support of external temperature, so maybe there's a way to fool/control it using this setting. We'll see what this one is worth when integrations will get more complete.
Is it possible to calibrate these without the Aqara hub/app in the same way you can calibrate the shade drivers so you can pair directly with zha?
Do you mean the calibration of the valve motor itself or the temperature? The valve motor is calibrated on the device itself.
How loud is it? The noise is widely different between devices and is pretty annoying at 6am!
Smart all good but when you renovate or buy a new central heating unit you might look at what your buying and save a double kost later on.
Example Bosch EasyControl CT200 can be included with your Bosh unit and from then on your only heating the room your in and say goodby to dump thermostat that needs to be heating the main room (where the main is) to be able to heat for example your hobby room.
Ofcourse the thermostat valves for your heater are expensive but your not buying it for 1 day.
HEATING more rooms than needed is a NOGO these days, so even if your thermostat at the radiator is automated but it can only function when your main thermostat is not active IS A DUMP system
EACH radiator thermostat needs to be able to activate your central heating unit if not
DO NOT BUY A DUMP SYSTEM
Has anyone who uses Ikea bulbs as their Zigbee mesh bought these? They look nice but I've had terrible trouble with the Aqara temperature/humidity/pressure sensors. They won't stay connected to Ikea bulbs
Hey what is your opinion on the possible interference issues with zigbee and wifi?
I once had problems with my zigbee network. The Conbee2 dongle was sitting right next to my Access Point. I just moved it about 50cm. No problems since then.
You could also manually select the channels of both devices to be as far apart as possible
For most people it's not usually an issue, and can be worked around with channels
isnt the app enough, or do u need these home assist, google home or what ever?? can u go without??
I thought they were grossly overpriced. I recent;y kitted out my whole house with the Sandy Beach zigbee TRVs and I'm very happy with them, though it cost an arm and a leg to do that despite them being way cheaper than these Aqara ones. Not sure what that comment about wifi and zigbee was, I've never even seen a wifi Aqara product and my house is full of Aqara kit. My problem is a zigbee house thermostat (well I need two) where I can do something with having the TRV's programmatically demand heat and doing it in a safe way - I have such a thermostat though I'm slightly paranoid about it, that whole space seems massively under-developed to me, also a wall thermometer with a display and a set point that is battery operated in zigbee (that doesn't directly control heating) would be really nice too.
Question, do these have the option to manually set the position of the valve? That's my main selling point to go for the Shelly TRVs...
@@matejfoltyn the sandy beach ones? Only fully open or fully closed - I set the target temp for comfort/eco/away and then let my house alarm status (away/home/night/off) determine which mode each TRV is in and then let it handle the valve position, seems like a lot of effort to manually set the position for not much gain. Guess you could write your own PID tuning but that'd be about the only benefit to it far as I can see. Shame the shelly ones are wifi because ew, but otherwise..
doesn't bring anything if the heating goes of at night :(
Nice review, but I didn't get it. Does it support gradual regulation in Home Assistant or not?
Thanks? Why didn't you get it? I mentioned this 😅 let me know if I missed something
No, it doesn't. He mentions that the competitor from Shelly supports it.
So i have make big mistake. My valve is to turn valve left and right so this dont work for me
Will this be available in the US or is there a similar option available?
Look for Nedis Smart Life Thermostat. Aquara just rebranded it. It cost only a friction.
Do I need a specific version of Z2M? Because it does not allow me to add the TRV to network as `Lumi device is not supported` 😞
Try with the edge version of z2m
@@EverythingSmartHome works. Thank you very much
I cannot get this to pair with Zigbee2mqtt. It just comes up with unsupported. Did you manage to pair it?
Try with the edge version
Like the MKBHD shirt!
Thanks Jason, good eye!
So do you need a smart thermostat to get this working in HomeKit?
Depends on your heating setup but it will connect to Homekit without
@@EverythingSmartHome thanks. I just know like 0 about heating, at the minute I just have a dumb thermostat so I’m wondering if it could connect and would it be this will only b3 on when the thermostat is on?
When I pair this with zigbeeb2mqtt is says not supported. zigbeeb2mqtt Current version: 1.27.2-1, did you do this under the dev brach to pair it?
I have the same issue, have you found a solution?
Has anyone used Google home routines with these with a nest thermostat
I think an important criteria for a radiator thermostat is the noise level, (especially when used in a bedroom) This is not mentioned in the video. Any actual users who can comment on this?
If you know anyone that can code I can tel you that the aqara can turn the boiler on through the Aqara & Google developer platforms/Api's.
How do these TRVs relate to the boiler itself though? Surely something needs to tell the boiler that there is demand from a TRV, in order to fire up? I get how it works, as long as there is a permanent supply of heat around the system.......but unless something is physically demanding heat from the boiler, then the valve will just be opening and closing without receiving any heat right? Is there a solution for this?
I'm certainly no heating expert so I'm sure others can chime in but I think depending on your boiler you can just have it on and then regulate the heat using these - I believe it's safe (depending on your boiler and type of system but double check yours).
But I could be wrong so feel free to correct me 😅
Well... How do your current TRVs "communicate"this to the boiler? :D
@@EverythingSmartHome I'm not a heating engineer either, but have some experience. I believe pretty much all boilers have to be triggered on (i.e. to fire up the boiler from rest)...that can be done with a dumb timer system, or a room thermostat, or a combination of the two.
My point is, unless that 1 thermostat or timer is "Active"....all that these TRV's can do is prevent the boiler needlessly circulating water around the particular radiator it's connected to.
However, even if no TRV's are asking for heat (i.e. open), the boiler would still have to be "on" and wastefully circulating water around the piping circuit, and maybe 1 or 2 unregulated towel radiators etc.
That's my point really, I don't see how these are of almost any use from a cost-saving perspective, UNLESS they talk also to a wireless receiver hardwired to the boiler, such that they also trigger the boiler on demand.
Such systems exist of course (e.g. Tado), but I don't get these types that operate stand-alone, with no interface to the boiler.
@@Bibble1911 they don't of course, the boiler triggers from a central room thermostat, or just a timer....my point is, in my opinion, these don't really offer anything in regards to efficiency and cost-saving, unless they can control the boiler. In reality, all they offer over a traditional TRV is more granular control and the ability to remote operate them.
The only true benefits, in terms of the boiler only coming on when it genuinely needs to, would come if these interfaced with some kind of "boiler interface".
Of course, from a smart-home perspective, if one sets a room to 21 degrees, one might expect the "system" to maintain that room at 21 degrees....these won't.
these are for centralized heating systems, like apartment buildings. the only thing you are controlling is how much hot water goes into your radiators. which your apartment then gets charged for, because there is a counter measuring how much hot water flows to you.
I am not certain, but I think this style is not that common in North America, if that's where you are from. It's pretty much standard in Europe - especially in apartment buildings.
Is there a way to pair this to nest?
Maybe through Home Assistant or Google home or another platform that works with Nest and Aqara?
How would the integration work? Would it have to be some sort of custom script in HA to trigger the nest?
Adding these to a heating system will reduce the efficiency of a condensing boiler so any gains will soon be lost. Great for showing mates down the pub but not much else
How to people find motor noise when in bedrooms
Looks like Tado is a cheaper choice
How large is the market of users using substandard smart home systems (systems other than HA)? I get HA isn't for the lazy, but man, i just don't see the google or HK being much to talk about...
Sick of Hibbert jokes, unsubscribed him.. Subscribed, thanks for informative presentatioon.
I have been using Hive Radiator Thermostats for 2 years and the batteries are it WEAK point. Hence I think the Shelly is talking the right approach using rechargable batteries! Stay away from anything that needs to power a motor with AA batteries! Warning , you will be replacing batteries every 2 weeks. Got a bit better using lithium batteries, but still not ECO at all. Sad to see new tech not considering the full circular impact of their products.
Oh no, a day too late to use the code!
Or simply buy dumbest possible zigbee TRV from aliexpress for 15£ and let HASS do the heavy lifting for you ... their asking price is comparable to tado (which already is a rip off), and honestly I don't see the value proposition here.
This thing is a rebranded Nedis Thermostat wtf